December 15, 2025 • 41 mins
Today on Whats My Frame I'm joined by Andrew Fleming. Andrew is a highly accomplished producer, director and screenwriter, most recently known for executive producing and directing the global hit series EMILY IN PARIS. Today Andy and I chat about directing the pilot of EMILY, exploring her world and the exciting new cities and storylines coming to Season 5.
A frequent collaborator of Darren Star, Fleming also directed the pilot and additional episodes of Star’s series UNCOUPLED, starring Neil Patrick Harris, and directed the pilot and served as executive producer of the Netflix series INSATIABLE, starring Debby Ryan.
On the feature side, Fleming co-wrote and directed the seminal political satire DICK, starring Kirsten Dunst, Michelle Williams, and Will Ferrell as well as cult-favorite genre film THE CRAFT, starring Fairuza Balk, Robin Tunney, Neve Campbell, and Rachel True. He also co-wrote and directed HAMLET 2, which premiered at the Sundance Film Festival, and wrote and directed the Sundance hit film THREESOME, and Paul Rudd/Steve Coogan comedy IDEAL HOME. Fleming was also the director of the Emma Roberts NANCY DREW feature, and the Michael Douglas/Albert Brooks comedy THE IN-LAWS.
He has directed the television pilots for such shows as GROSSE POINTE, DIFFICULT PEOPLE, ODD MOM OUT, BAD JUDGE, as well as UNCOUPLED. He has also directed episodes for ARRESTED DEVELOPMENT, NEW GIRL, RED OAKS, LADY DYNAMITE, YOUNGER & Dolly Parton's HEARTSTRINGS among others.
Follow Andrew on IG @andymanf
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Episode Transcript
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(00:03):
Hi everyone. Today, what's my frame?
I'm joined by Andrew Fleming. Andy is a highly accomplished
producer, director, and screenwriter most recently known
for executive producing and directing the global hit series
Emily in Paris. Today, Andy and I chat about
directing the pilot for Emily, exploring her beautiful world
and the exciting new cities and storylines coming to Season 5.
(00:25):
Now let's get to the conversation.
Hey Andy, welcome to What's My Friend?
How you doing? Thank you.
Glad to be here. I'm doing well.
We're going to talk about Emily and Paris and the new season in
a little bit, but for anyone whoisn't familiar with your back
story, do you mind starting us out with what drew you to the
arts? We like to start every episode
(00:46):
kind of the same way of laying that foundation of what was your
creative training ground and inspiration.
I was really the ultimate artsy Craftsy kid.
I loved to draw. I went into every craft.
I was ceramics. I, I did graphic arts.
I never really got into music, but I did acting in school.
(01:08):
I just knew I wanted to do something creative.
Growing up, I, I drew and painted a lot, mostly pen and
ink drawings. And I thought I, I wanted to be
an artist of some kind. But I grew up in Los Angeles and
both of my parents were kind of on the fringe of the movie
business. And a lot of my friends in
(01:29):
school, their parents were on television shows or they
produced or they were just involved in the business.
So it was around me. And in fact, my father, when I
was very young, represented directors.
So I went on to movie sets and my mother was a food stylist, so
I went on to TV sets. So I was surrounded by it.
(01:52):
And I think just by process of elimination, I think I just, and
I made a lot of movies when I was a kid, Super 8 movies a lot.
And I think I just kind of gravitated towards it because in
one ways it involved all the other arts.
It involves writing, it involvesvisuals, photography, pictures.
(02:15):
And it seemed like if you could work in movies, then you do all
those things. And I went to NYU film school
and I wasn't sure if I wanted todirect, but I just found that I
was more comfortable telling people what to do rather than
being told what to do. And so I directed a lot of
shorts at NYUA, lot more than I was actually supposed to.
(02:38):
And I won a couple of awards andI actually ended up getting an
agent while I was at NYU. In case you couldn't tell, I was
a very type A student at NYU andI got an agent before I even
graduated from from film school.And then I wrote, I wrote an
(03:00):
outline with some friends for a movie in film school.
Then we graduated and I said, doyou guys want to write this with
me? And they said no.
So I wrote a draft of it and gave it to my agent.
This is, you know, within a yearof graduating.
And he set me up with a meeting with a producer named Galen
Hurd, who had just produced Aliens.
(03:23):
And she talked to me. We talked for about two hours.
And she said OK. And I think I made a deal to
direct a movie at 20th Century Fox when I was 23 years old.
What was it about the environment that you were in
that supported your creativity, be it an NYU or like those early
(03:45):
environments As a filmmaker, what were the pivotal mentors
and and environments that supported your creative voice in
your unique point of view of storytelling?
Well, you know, I was taken to plays, to musicals, to straight
plays. I was taken to museums to look
at paintings. I was taken to concerts.
(04:07):
I was taken to a lot of screenings of movies, not just
things that were out in the theater, but to, you know,
screenings, premieres, things like that.
Not premieres necessarily wasn't, wasn't glamorous.
It's just that if you, you live in LA, you know, you'll get
invited to screenings if you're part of the business.
And so I, I went to those. And so there was a lot of
(04:31):
creative, you know, input and I think, you know, if you're
surrounded by the arts growing up, and I was always encouraged
to draw, especially early. I think I think I was probably
the kid in the class that had the really good drawing.
And so I got that positive feedback.
(04:51):
I want to be the person that draws the best, you know,
certainly more than sports or math or anything like that.
I was, I was the artistic kid and and if you're told you're
you're talented and creative, then you, you are.
Do you know what I mean? I got AI got a lot of that early
on. And I don't even know if I was,
I look at those drawings. It's like these are just bad kid
(05:13):
drawings. But I think I got better because
of I just practice of doing it alot and learning to see things
and look at look at the frame, look at how things are composed
that was imprinted early. From that first professional
feature at 23 and that door thatwas opened, how did you learn to
parlay that into the next opportunity and find
(05:36):
collaborators that aligned with the career you wanted to build
for yourself? That was the that's the, the the
interesting part, because this movie that I made, it came out
when I was 25. These movies take a while and it
it was a horrible movie and nobody really paid attention to
it. It it made a little bit of
money. It wasn't a hit, but it wasn't
really a terrible flop. So nobody really paid much
(05:58):
attention to it and the reviews are not terribly good.
And there was a writers strike that happened then.
So whatever momentum I had going, it just stopped.
And, and I, I, I in fact didn't really do anything for the next
5 years. So that the period of struggle
(06:18):
happened then I got this huge boost early on.
And then I just thought I wasn'tcrazy about the movie after I
had made it. I, I am much more forgiving of
it now, but it wasn't really what I wanted to do.
I didn't want to do horror movies per SE.
So I kind of floundered and ended up, you know, sleeping on
(06:39):
my sister's couch. And I actually signed up to an
acting class, not to become an actor, but because I just
thought it would be nice to learn with precision about how
all of that works because I'd acted the little as a kid, but I
really didn't know how to do it or how to articulate direction
to actors. So I, I spent two years studying
(07:02):
the Meisner technique that, thatthey taught at the Neighborhood
Playhouse and doing the repetition exercise, doing
scenes. And in fact, out of one of those
exercises, a scene, an improvised scene, I realized I
had this relationship with the woman in the scene that reminded
(07:22):
me of a relationship I'd had in college.
And it was very funny and kind of emotional.
And I, it reminded me of this person in college that I had
this relationship with. And I built a story around that
relationship. And that became my next movie,
which is Threesome, which is a very small movie with a very
character base and, and a comedy.
(07:45):
And, and I think that movie really reflected who I was.
And people thought, oh, I see what you can do.
And that's when really my, my, my creative life really began.
And I thought this is a way forward.
And, and that movie we made for $1.1 million, but it got picked
(08:09):
up by Tristar and it went to Sundance and it got very, very
positive reviews. And it, it made, you know, a, a
decent amount of money was so cheap that it didn't have to
make a lot of money, But it was a, it was, it was an indie hit
and it gave me the momentum to move on.
If you're comfortable talking about a little bit more in depth
of that five year period, because I think a lot of
(08:29):
creatives coming up now. I was just actually talking with
some good friends. We all were feeling like we had
this momentum of coming up and then the push down happened
simultaneously. And I think everyone is really
looking for how others that haveexperienced in the past stay
creative and consistent and continue to show up because
(08:51):
there there's such a temptation to unfortunately walk away
because you want some sense of security in your life by a
certain age. Yeah.
I think the struggle is, is similar between writers and
directors and actors, but writers have an advantage.
And I, you know, I wrote and directed, the first thing that I
(09:13):
did is that you can create your own content.
And I've been able to move forward load these many decades
because of that. And I think the idea that is, is
true more true than ever becauseyou can create your own content
very, very easily, much more easily than you could when I was
(09:34):
starting out. And, you know, I see a lot of
actors making little shorts or just doing monologues or do or
just recording their thoughts something joke or, or doing much
more elaborate things where theyput on costumes and create
little movies. And the truth is, if you're
keeping yourself out there like that and you're creating
(09:56):
something interesting and original and funny or emotional
or insightful, you, you see it. You know, I mean, I work on a,
you know, regular old fashioned TV show, albeit it's on Netflix,
but a lot of people have been casting the show and part of
their resume is what they're posting online, what their
(10:17):
Instagram and, and their TikTok is.
I mean, that happened this season.
And, you know, there are people that I follow and it's more
comedy because that's the business I'm in.
And I think like she's really good.
I want I constantly seeing her online and I want to make sure
we we use her in a part or he's really good.
I mean, there's one guy that I was following his his
(10:40):
Instagram's Jay first one. He's just funny and he's like on
a series now. Do you know what I mean?
And that's from Instagram. So, you know, I think there's a
lot more at your disposal to to alleviate that sense of
helplessness. And I think if you're an actor
and you don't necessarily know how to write well, figure
something else out, do other people's material, but create
(11:02):
something and get yourself out there.
It's, it's much more, it's much more democratic.
It's a level playing field for everybody.
And it isn't necessarily you know who you know anymore.
But yeah, I, I, I think it's, it's a mistake, especially for
an actor to sit around and wait for the right part.
Get out there and do stuff, do a, play something online, write,
(11:28):
try to write something, even if it sucks.
Just learn that you're not a writer.
Let's talk about Emily in Paris.The fifth season returns this
month, but before we dive into the season and and what what you
all have been working on, I would love to hear more about
how the show came to you originally and what were your
first thoughts in hearing and experiencing this world.
(11:51):
Well, the show was created by Darren Starr of TV fame.
He's created a lot of shows likeBeverly Hills 9 O 210, Mel's
Place, Sex in the City. I think everybody knows all
that. But I did a pilot with Darren a
long time ago, and that was the first time I'd worked on TV
because I'd only done feature films before that.
(12:12):
And he'd seen one of my films, this movie called Dick with
Kirsten Dunst and Will Ferrell and Michelle Williams, and he
really liked it. And he had a pilot that he
wanted to do and offered it to me.
It's called Grosse Pointe. And it lasted a couple of
seasons. It was very, very funny.
But we, we became friendly and we, I, our tastes aligned.
(12:34):
You know, he was like a person that I felt like, I like the
stuff you like and you like the stuff I like.
And we, we found a way to, to work together that we really,
you know, we trusted each other.So we worked on a couple of
other shows along the way. There was 1 show, particularly
younger, where I would come and direct episodes of that.
And, and at one point he mentioned this show Emily in
(12:58):
Paris. And he sent me the script and I
thought it was great. And it's funny, I had been
trying to develop a show about an American male American chef
in Paris. So I had and I had sold it to
this one company and then another company.
So I spent a lot of time in Paris the previous two years
(13:19):
researching restaurants and justParis in general, spending a lot
of time there. So when it and then that fell
apart and that's the moment thatthe script fell into my lap.
So, you know, it was a case of something really collapsing and
then something else coming alongand kind of taking that, you
know, volition. And I was, I was struck by how
(13:45):
how different it was from everything on TV at the time,
because this was the moment it was, you know, kind of peak TV
era and everything was dark. It was serial killers and crime
and depression and indie, you know, little indie stuff.
And I thought, I remember thinking, because Younger was
(14:06):
ending and I remember thinking like, where's the show?
Like younger? Where's something that's fun?
And people are optimistic and it's cool places and cool
clothes. Let's just say it and, and, and
it's fun and funny, which is what TV was when I was growing
up. That's all it was.
It was just smiley, happy people.
(14:29):
And I thought, where is the, thefun, entertaining, escapist,
kind of Fair. And so I recognize that it was.
And this is a kind of a crass phrase unique in the marketplace
that there wasn't anything like it on TV when it came about.
And I think, I mean, I remember there was this one moment where
Darren was like, what is this show?
I mean, I think he was just having kind of a creative crisis
(14:51):
and he's like, what is it? Like, what is it?
And I just, I said, I think it'sreally different than
everything. I think people are going to
appreciate it. I but I thought it would find a
niche, you know, And so that's how it happened.
I just read the script and was on board and it was originally
(15:13):
the season was produced for the Paramount Network.
It wasn't for Netflix and it wasa very small budget.
But because I've always felt like you can take a small amount
of money and make it look fancier, more more expensive.
Especially in a city like Paris where you just go out on the
(15:33):
sidewalk and you have the EiffelTower and it looks like
1,000,000 bucks. So The Furious was very
inexpensive. And then Darren had the idea of
of wanting to have a larger platform.
I think when we started cutting the episodes together, he was
very encouraged and he thought maybe this is a bigger show than
we thought and talked Paramount into selling it to Netflix.
(15:56):
And we saw that first season 2019, and then the pandemic
happened. And I remember thinking, this
show is just going to get lost in the the apocalypse.
Nobody's going to want to pay attention to a young American
girl in Paris. But in fact, the exact opposite
(16:18):
happened is that everybody wanted a little Parisian
vacation. And it's really surprised all of
us about how how popular it was.It was just immediate.
People were just down for the ride, so it was kind of
phenomenal moments when that happened.
Now, I know that you directed the pilot of Emily and Paris,
(16:39):
but when Darren reached out, in what capacity was he wanting you
to come on board? Was it a a guest director
position? Was it a bigger role like you
have now? How?
How did that evolution grow? I think, I mean, I think
initially he just gave it to me and wanted to know my thoughts.
And I had just done a series foranother series for Netflix
(17:04):
called Insatiable. And I, I was, I had this job,
which is called being the directing producer, where I
direct a disproportionate numberof the episodes, but then I'm
around for the other directors to kind of coordinate them to
help them bring their vision, but also just make sure that
(17:24):
every part of the show fits together.
So it was a bigger job than justdirecting.
And I, and I know that I wanted to do that for, for Emily.
And so, you know, I, I propose that at the outset of being an
executive producer and being the, the directing producers so
that I can help crew up, help find the other directors and,
(17:48):
and coordinate all of that. So it's a, it's a, it's a very,
it's, it's the most demanding job I've ever had.
It's it's more than directing a feature film.
It's exponentially a greater task than that.
Now, as a producing director, how do you like to inform and
(18:09):
educate your guest directors coming in of the voice of Emily
and this world that you all havebeen working on for so many
years? But also allowing them the space
to leave their thumbprint on it and, and get to, you know,
stretch their muscles a little bit.
Well, on Emily, we've had the luxury of, of, of hiring really
(18:30):
great people. And the show has a kind of
kitchen sink technique. You can do kooky angles.
You can do, you know, lots of camera movements.
You can do graphics on the screen.
It's you can kind of get away with anything.
Because my, my theory, my, my pretentious film school theory
(18:54):
is that I think movies should beexecuted in a way that is as if
the lead character is telling you the story.
It's, and, and Emily is a very effervescent, optimistic,
stylish person. And the show is that it's
colourful and it's, it's fast-paced and it's jumps around
(19:14):
and it's, you know, interested in style and, and like she is.
So we're, we're in a very advantageous situation because
we can encourage directors to throw everything at the show to,
to bring their, to fly their freak flag and bring a lot of
technique to come up with fun angles to, you know, be overhead
(19:36):
and spin around and to fill the frame with color and a lot of
movement and long steady camp shots.
That it that it's the the show absorbs that energy really well.
It's it's very few scenes that are just normal master, single,
single. There are a few, but very, very
(19:57):
few. You've directed a number of
pilots in your career and helping set the tone for a show
and and and help establish its voice from page to screen.
I'm sure there's a lot of responsibility.
I'm curious what was unique about the experience of
directing the pilot for Emily and.
Paris. Well, I've never directed in a
(20:21):
non-english speaking country before and you know, I think
they're all different. I think I would hope that all of
the films and all of the pilots that I've done, I've tried to
bring a different style. I don't, I don't have a style.
I try to create a style for the show.
And I think, you know, there were a couple of different
(20:42):
priorities with Emily is that I thought it should be really
beautiful. I think it's reflecting her
point of view, or our point of view when we go to Paris for the
first time is that you just see how beautiful it is, how quaint.
And you see the architecture andyou see these adorable little
cafes and the flower shops. And you don't see the garbage
(21:03):
and you don't see, you know, thetacky advertisements.
You, you see the beautiful parts.
And so I felt like let's idealize the city and not show
The Dirty parts as much, especially in the pilot.
I think since then we've, we have a broader view of the, of
the city, but it's a it's an idealized, you know, version of
(21:25):
the city. I think.
I definitely thought that pace should be brisk, that it should
should always be something goingon that it's not.
It doesn't linger in, in depression.
You know, I think in the pilot, there's one moment where Emily's
kind of sad because she's in Paris and she's doesn't have any
friends. And we let that kind of linger.
(21:48):
She's wandering through cafes. The cadence slowed down there,
but otherwise it was very brisk.I thought it should be colorful
like her. Her wardrobe.
Paris can be Gray. I thought it was important to
incorporate color. The response was so overwhelming
with Season 1 and and the fans love and adoration for Emily in
this world. What were those meetings like in
(22:11):
coming back in preparation for season 2?
What were the the ways that you all wanted to challenge
yourself? What were the things that you
wanted to take from what the fans were loving and expand on
those storylines? You know, from the start, there
was this very, very sunny disposition to Emily.
And I think we wanted her to to grow up a little bit.
(22:33):
And I think she has every seasonshe's become a little more
French, a little less naive, a little more cynical, a little
smarter, little craftier. And she's opened her heart to
people. You know, she isn't so perfect.
She's we see her more as a flawed character.
And I think this season you'll see especially, you know, the
(22:55):
the show and she are maturing. I do go into the room at the
beginning of the writers room and, and throw out my ideas and
show restaurants that I think would be interesting and places
for her to go and just ideas of the types of characters, you
know, real people who could enter her world and just throw
(23:17):
things out to try to be, you know, a stimulus because they're
always grasping for ideas. Because I'm, I'm constantly
looking at social media. What's the new restaurant in
Paris? What's the new hotel?
What's the new place to go the exhibition?
So the, the challenge really is to keep topping ourselves
(23:40):
because there there are what we call set pieces in the show.
There are fashion shows, there are parties, there are montages,
there are musical numbers. And we keep having more of them
and we keep trying to make them bigger and bigger.
The challenges How do we keep trying to outdo ourselves?
Going back to your two years with Meisner, how does that
(24:02):
understanding of being in the actor's shoes, does any of that
still in in the back of your mind inform you as a director
and how you communicate with actors?
Yeah, I will say that doing thatprogram showed me more about how
to write, because it's all in writing is improvisation.
But I think what it showed me isthat when I would do an
(24:25):
exercise, you're in it and then you pop out of it because the
scene is over and you're lookingaround and people want to
discuss, you know, the class andthe teacher will discuss it is
that you're, you're kind of in astate of shock a little bit like
you don't know what happened exactly.
And so if somebody comes at you with a list of 27 things to do
differently, it's it's overwhelming and you can't
(24:48):
really respond. But if somebody comes in and
says just slow down and relax and like pay attention to her,
you know, something simple or, you know, faster or, or, you
know, be distracted, but give them something simple to do.
And, you know, I, I kind of havelike a, a rule, I don't give
(25:12):
actors, you know, more than two or three things after each take,
because after that it's just a list.
So, and, and I've also learned over the years, which is just
let them do it again. You know what I mean?
Like, maybe don't criticize them, say that's great, Just do
it one more time and they will self correct.
I really, I try to give less andless direction, and I find that
(25:37):
a lot of what I'm doing now is talking about pace and talking
about where you are in the frame, because the frame really
matters. On Emily in Paris, the frames
are very organized. Less is more.
What can you tell us about Season 5?
Well, there's no secret that she's in Italy at the beginning
(25:57):
and then she goes back to Paris and then she goes somewhere
else, which is Venice. So there's a lot of, there's a
lot of jumping around and her relationships are very
complicated. There's, there are a couple of
curveballs at the end of the season in terms of Emily's
(26:21):
trajectory, but there are a lot of curveballs with Mindy.
There's a lot of curveballs withwork.
There's a lot of a lot of reallygood reversals.
And I, there's a couple of episodes, two that I did and
that I feel are really emotional, like in a, in a, in a
(26:41):
subtle way. They're not dramatic, they're
not melodramatic, but they're fun.
But there's something, there's like a sort of swell of emotion
under them. And I, I, I feel like it's a, a
deeper season with, with Emily. And I will say I think Lily is
is really, really good to the season.
(27:03):
I think her performance is amazing this season.
What has been your favorite storyline or episode to date?
I think 2 of them because there's, there were scenes that
I, you know, are just crazy etched in my, my brain, like
when we went to Versailles had this crazy hip hop fashion show.
So over the top and exciting. But, you know, then there's the
(27:26):
other end of the spectrum, whichis just very simple scenes.
There's this episode 6 this season, which is really about
Emily and Mindy's relationship because they're always just
pals. And then that episode is very,
there's a wrench, a wrench thrown in the machine and they
(27:49):
sort of test the limits of theirfriendship.
And that it was very emotional for me, you know, because that's
in in many ways the backbone of the show is it's Emily and her
best friend. It's also Emily and, and Sylvia
at work and the, and the guys too.
But Emily and Mindy are really, you know, the, the, the centre
(28:10):
of the show of her in terms of her personal life.
And so it was, it was rich territory.
I love that episode. And then there's episode 9 is
very emotional and it's not. Neither of those episodes is
really big as a giant set piece or anything, but those are two
really, really great episodes. Now you've described your tone
(28:31):
as a mix of sharpness and warmth.
Where does that duality and balance come from in your
creative process? I mean, I feel like I learned
this from my first couple of movies.
Is that I like the emotion. I like conflict and and drama,
but I also like when things are funny and and absurd.
(28:57):
And you know, my first movie wasa horror movie, but there's a
there were a lot of jokes in it.And then my second movie was a
comedy, but kids in college, butthere's a lot of kind of
heartbreak and longing in it. And then my third movie was this
movie about witchcraft, which was a horror movie.
But what I saw recently, I thought, like, a lot of this is
(29:20):
funny. A lot of this is propelled by
what's funny, darkly funny aboutthe scene.
And so I like that space in between where where there's
emotion, but then there's also, you know, ridiculous human
behavior that makes you laugh. The light and the dark.
Before we go into your writing, I do want to talk just briefly
(29:42):
about your approach to rehearsals.
Well, it's interesting because the process of directing,
process of shooting is differentin France than it is in the US.
In the US, especially on ATV show, the actors show up at call
(30:03):
and the actors and the director block everything and you run it
and then everybody watches that.Then you invite the crew to
watch. They put down tape and you talk
about how to break it up. In Europe, the tradition is the
director shows up at the crew and says, this is what I want.
And the director, it's the norm there.
(30:24):
I mean, it's this is how it always happens.
But I'm expected to block it outwithout the actress being there
because they're getting ready. And I've tried to bring it over
to the American system, but theyjust, it just, it constantly
keeps reverting. Well, they're 5 miles away
getting ready. If we bring them over now, then
(30:44):
send them back to finish gettingready, we'll lose 45 minutes.
And, and I said, OK, fine. So, and I've only done Emily in
France, the, the actors have learned to trust me in terms of
how to block the scene, that I'll give them a natural place
to stand and that, you know, that the pause is here and then
(31:05):
you sit down and we, we work that out and, and I will tweak
it if it doesn't work when I seeit with them and they don't like
it if they don't like it, but I'm expected to block the whole
scene out before anybody shows up.
And, but you know, I, I feel like rehearsal is really
important when you're, when actors are figuring out who a
(31:27):
character is. These people know who they are
and I let them run it as many times as they want beforehand
before we roll. But I also really love the idea
of just rolling the camera when they're not 100% because they
may make a mistake. That's fabulous.
(31:47):
It's, it's in France called Reptune, which is a repetition
is, is rehearsal and tune, tune is shooting.
So it's the, the portmanteau of the two words repertooned.
And it's like what when we say shooting the rehearsal and the
(32:08):
actors are kind of why, what, what, what, what, But it's, it's
good. It gets everybody ready and it,
it gets the hair and makeup people out.
You know, they can do the last look and they they need to get
out. I love the hair and make of
people. I love all the wardrobe people.
They're geniuses. They've been nominated for so
many Emmys, but there's so many of them.
(32:31):
And they're so concerned about, you know, every lock of hair is
that sometimes you need to, to stand back and let people get
messy. But yeah, so, so the, the, the
truth is we don't get a lot of rehearsal on the show, but I
think it's OK. Generally, I do like it if we're
doing a movie from scratch, I like to spend a couple of days,
(32:53):
you know, working with the actors and let them improvise
and talk about and what does this mean and go through every
scene. I'm a big, big, big believer in
rehearsals. You know, weeks of it if you
can, but usually there isn't enough time.
I want to talk about your writing for a little bit.
Where do you feel you are most creative?
It's the hardest thing. I mean, writing is so much
(33:14):
harder than directing in my opinion, because you're, you're
coming up with something. And I, I don't really write on
Emily and Paris, though. I go into the writers room and I
interact with them a lot. But I have been writing other
things separately. You know, however, you can do
it, however you can come up withideas.
(33:36):
My process has been I think of an idea and, and I get super
excited about it. And that's an amazing idea.
And these are the characters andthis is the tone and how it goes
forward. And you know, if you keep
getting excited about it, if youkeep coming up with ideas, I
write things down on index cards.
Sometimes I make notes on my laptop, but historically it
(33:59):
would be index cards. And then back in the day when I
was writing features from scratch, what I'm still doing
that a little bit. But you know, if the stack got
this big, you know, couple of inches, then OK, that's enough
for a movie. And then you put them in an
order and say, oh, that's kind of a natural at end of act one.
(34:22):
And this is kind of a good climax at the end of Act 2.
And so I come up with the ideas for scenes and lines and
characters and then organize them.
And I've always found that it's really important to have an
ending before you start because endings are the hardest part.
If you are marching through it and you don't have an ending,
(34:43):
then you've set up all this stuff and you don't know.
How do you make all of it pay off?
I, I do believe in that. I know some people just start at
the beginning and work their waytowards the ending.
I don't know how they do that. As a writer, director, how do
you balance the roles? Well, they're the same thing.
I mean, it's coming up with waysof, you know, this is how it
(35:04):
happens. This is what it sounds like,
this is what it feels like. I will say I write thinking in
terms of shots. So I'm, I'm directing when I'm
writing. So they're, they're, they're
very connected for me. A struggle that a lot of writers
know is trying to figure out when do you continue to try to
(35:24):
make an idea work, and how do you continue to try to workshop
it? Or when do you sit it down and
let it rest and then come back to it?
I'm curious how you learned thatfor yourself through trial and
error. Well, I, it's really it, it's
it's I, I believe the whole thing is self regulating because
if you're enthusiastic about it,then you keep going.
If if it sickens you and bores you, then don't do it.
(35:49):
And in the case of Ideal Home, though, the pause was that I
came up with this story with these two characters, Paul and
Erasmus. And I really love the
characters, but the story wasn'tworking.
The story wasn't there and then this I had a conversation with
this woman, a producer, and she introduced circumstance to me
(36:11):
and I thought, oh, I have these characters sitting in a drawer.
I can put them in the thing you're talking about.
And and that's how that happened.
It was just, you know, and that's the same thing happened
with Dick is that there's, if you have a character you really
like, that's really the gold youthat that they're, you know,
(36:37):
their life force is interesting to you.
And, and then if they have a voice, if you, if you know how
they talk, that's immensely helpful because I love, you
know, people who use language ina specific way.
And that that movie, Paul and Arasos had two very, very
specific voices. And that's, I felt like I could
(37:01):
come up with three more storylines with those two
characters that I would be happyto do that, you know, over and
over. Are there any pivotal lessons
that some of your projects have taught you that you carry on
still today? Well, talking about Ideal Home,
Steve Coogan and Paul Rudd, the two actors who played those
(37:21):
parts, are pretty knowledgeable about comedy.
And I wanted the movie to be this mixture of emotion and
comedy. And there were a couple of
scenes where the scene ended dramatically and Steve and our
Paul would inevitably come up with a joke after the dramatic
(37:44):
part. And I was like, you can't like,
can we just end the scene dramatically?
And they're like, Andy, just because it's funny doesn't mean
it's it's, it's not serious. And I, it was, it's a lesson
that I keep learning over and over.
And it's, it doesn't apply to everybody because some people
don't write comedy. But you can have real emotion in
the scene and then a character can make a joke about what's
happening and it doesn't undercut the reality of the
(38:07):
scene. In fact, that's what people do.
You know, in the middle of a horrible, you know, something
horrible is happening in a hospital, the person on the
operating table makes a joke. It happens all the time.
That lesson is that jokes or comedy, unless they're out of
character, don't lessen the emotional gravity of a scene.
(38:28):
And I think a lot of the times they can intensify things.
You know, I think in a horror movie, when something's really
tense and somebody makes a joke,it's this release, you know, and
it so the audience relaxes a little bit and then you can
scare the bejesus out of them. It's it's part of the language.
Well, it keeps you curious and inspired as the industry
(38:50):
continues to change. So whatever is coming at me, I
want to make it happen. Yeah.
I mean, I think if I was independently wealthy, I
probably would think, oh, I don't need to do this.
So it's nice to have bills to pay and keeps you going back.
I mean, there are a couple timeswhere I did projects.
(39:12):
So I was like, I'm not sure I want to do it, but I don't have
anything else to do. And what, maybe it wasn't a
great idea, but I learned something from it, moved me on
to the next thing, or I had a great experience doing it, or I
met somebody great or just had agood time.
It's it's important to just keepdoing things.
(39:34):
As we wind down, do you have anyadvice for young creatives,
directors or actors that are trying to find their creative
ways or find their creative community?
Well, I mean, in in reflecting back on our therapy session
here, I think if you're a writer, you know, try acting.
(39:55):
If you're an actor, try writing.If you're a director, take an
acting class. But like those things diversify.
I think any kind of creative education is good.
You, you have to keep learning things, learn how to.
Learn how to draw, learn how to do musical play, play, play an
(40:19):
instrument. You know, we didn't talk about
music, but music is incredibly important.
It's, it's, you know, music is really one of the things that
helps me get into the head of, of, of a movie or, or whatever
I'm doing. And, and I, I see shots or I
think of things that could happen from a piece of music.
(40:41):
I remember when I was writing the craft, there were a couple
of albums that just completely were the voice or the the sound
in my head when I was writing scenes for that movie.
Annie, it has been so fun chatting with you.
We end every episode the same way.
What is one thing you wish you could go back and tell your
younger self? I would tell myself it's all
going to be good, it's all goingto work out and to not worry so
(41:05):
much to just move forward. Well, thank you so much for
making the time to chat. Congratulations on Season 5, I'm
so excited to watch. Thank you.
I'm excited for people to see itand this has been great.
Hi everyone, thanks for listening and being the absolute
best part of our creative community here at What's My
(41:25):
Frame? If you'd like to learn more
about our guests, please check out the show notes and please
join us on socials at What's My Frame?
To stay in the know for upcomingevents, I'm your host, Laura
Linda Bradley. We'll see you next Monday.
Hi everyone. Today, what's my frame?
I'm joined by Andrew Fleming. Andy is a highly accomplished
producer, director, and screenwriter most recently known
for executive producing and directing the global hit series
Emily in Paris. Today, Andy and I chat about
directing the pilot for Emily, exploring her beautiful world
and the exciting new cities and storylines coming to Season 5.
(00:25):
Now let's get to the conversation.
Hey Andy, welcome to What's My Friend?
How you doing? Thank you.
Glad to be here. I'm doing well.
We're going to talk about Emily and Paris and the new season in
a little bit, but for anyone whoisn't familiar with your back
story, do you mind starting us out with what drew you to the
arts? We like to start every episode
(00:46):
kind of the same way of laying that foundation of what was your
creative training ground and inspiration.
I was really the ultimate artsy Craftsy kid.
I loved to draw. I went into every craft.
I was ceramics. I, I did graphic arts.
I never really got into music, but I did acting in school.
(01:08):
I just knew I wanted to do something creative.
Growing up, I, I drew and painted a lot, mostly pen and
ink drawings. And I thought I, I wanted to be
an artist of some kind. But I grew up in Los Angeles and
both of my parents were kind of on the fringe of the movie
business. And a lot of my friends in
(01:29):
school, their parents were on television shows or they
produced or they were just involved in the business.
So it was around me. And in fact, my father, when I
was very young, represented directors.
So I went on to movie sets and my mother was a food stylist, so
I went on to TV sets. So I was surrounded by it.
(01:52):
And I think just by process of elimination, I think I just, and
I made a lot of movies when I was a kid, Super 8 movies a lot.
And I think I just kind of gravitated towards it because in
one ways it involved all the other arts.
It involves writing, it involvesvisuals, photography, pictures.
(02:15):
And it seemed like if you could work in movies, then you do all
those things. And I went to NYU film school
and I wasn't sure if I wanted todirect, but I just found that I
was more comfortable telling people what to do rather than
being told what to do. And so I directed a lot of
shorts at NYUA, lot more than I was actually supposed to.
(02:38):
And I won a couple of awards andI actually ended up getting an
agent while I was at NYU. In case you couldn't tell, I was
a very type A student at NYU andI got an agent before I even
graduated from from film school.And then I wrote, I wrote an
(03:00):
outline with some friends for a movie in film school.
Then we graduated and I said, doyou guys want to write this with
me? And they said no.
So I wrote a draft of it and gave it to my agent.
This is, you know, within a yearof graduating.
And he set me up with a meeting with a producer named Galen
Hurd, who had just produced Aliens.
(03:23):
And she talked to me. We talked for about two hours.
And she said OK. And I think I made a deal to
direct a movie at 20th Century Fox when I was 23 years old.
What was it about the environment that you were in
that supported your creativity, be it an NYU or like those early
(03:45):
environments As a filmmaker, what were the pivotal mentors
and and environments that supported your creative voice in
your unique point of view of storytelling?
Well, you know, I was taken to plays, to musicals, to straight
plays. I was taken to museums to look
at paintings. I was taken to concerts.
(04:07):
I was taken to a lot of screenings of movies, not just
things that were out in the theater, but to, you know,
screenings, premieres, things like that.
Not premieres necessarily wasn't, wasn't glamorous.
It's just that if you, you live in LA, you know, you'll get
invited to screenings if you're part of the business.
And so I, I went to those. And so there was a lot of
(04:31):
creative, you know, input and I think, you know, if you're
surrounded by the arts growing up, and I was always encouraged
to draw, especially early. I think I think I was probably
the kid in the class that had the really good drawing.
And so I got that positive feedback.
(04:51):
I want to be the person that draws the best, you know,
certainly more than sports or math or anything like that.
I was, I was the artistic kid and and if you're told you're
you're talented and creative, then you, you are.
Do you know what I mean? I got AI got a lot of that early
on. And I don't even know if I was,
I look at those drawings. It's like these are just bad kid
(05:13):
drawings. But I think I got better because
of I just practice of doing it alot and learning to see things
and look at look at the frame, look at how things are composed
that was imprinted early. From that first professional
feature at 23 and that door thatwas opened, how did you learn to
parlay that into the next opportunity and find
(05:36):
collaborators that aligned with the career you wanted to build
for yourself? That was the that's the, the the
interesting part, because this movie that I made, it came out
when I was 25. These movies take a while and it
it was a horrible movie and nobody really paid attention to
it. It it made a little bit of
money. It wasn't a hit, but it wasn't
really a terrible flop. So nobody really paid much
(05:58):
attention to it and the reviews are not terribly good.
And there was a writers strike that happened then.
So whatever momentum I had going, it just stopped.
And, and I, I, I in fact didn't really do anything for the next
5 years. So that the period of struggle
(06:18):
happened then I got this huge boost early on.
And then I just thought I wasn'tcrazy about the movie after I
had made it. I, I am much more forgiving of
it now, but it wasn't really what I wanted to do.
I didn't want to do horror movies per SE.
So I kind of floundered and ended up, you know, sleeping on
(06:39):
my sister's couch. And I actually signed up to an
acting class, not to become an actor, but because I just
thought it would be nice to learn with precision about how
all of that works because I'd acted the little as a kid, but I
really didn't know how to do it or how to articulate direction
to actors. So I, I spent two years studying
(07:02):
the Meisner technique that, thatthey taught at the Neighborhood
Playhouse and doing the repetition exercise, doing
scenes. And in fact, out of one of those
exercises, a scene, an improvised scene, I realized I
had this relationship with the woman in the scene that reminded
(07:22):
me of a relationship I'd had in college.
And it was very funny and kind of emotional.
And I, it reminded me of this person in college that I had
this relationship with. And I built a story around that
relationship. And that became my next movie,
which is Threesome, which is a very small movie with a very
character base and, and a comedy.
(07:45):
And, and I think that movie really reflected who I was.
And people thought, oh, I see what you can do.
And that's when really my, my, my creative life really began.
And I thought this is a way forward.
And, and that movie we made for $1.1 million, but it got picked
(08:09):
up by Tristar and it went to Sundance and it got very, very
positive reviews. And it, it made, you know, a, a
decent amount of money was so cheap that it didn't have to
make a lot of money, But it was a, it was, it was an indie hit
and it gave me the momentum to move on.
If you're comfortable talking about a little bit more in depth
of that five year period, because I think a lot of
(08:29):
creatives coming up now. I was just actually talking with
some good friends. We all were feeling like we had
this momentum of coming up and then the push down happened
simultaneously. And I think everyone is really
looking for how others that haveexperienced in the past stay
creative and consistent and continue to show up because
(08:51):
there there's such a temptation to unfortunately walk away
because you want some sense of security in your life by a
certain age. Yeah.
I think the struggle is, is similar between writers and
directors and actors, but writers have an advantage.
And I, you know, I wrote and directed, the first thing that I
(09:13):
did is that you can create your own content.
And I've been able to move forward load these many decades
because of that. And I think the idea that is, is
true more true than ever becauseyou can create your own content
very, very easily, much more easily than you could when I was
(09:34):
starting out. And, you know, I see a lot of
actors making little shorts or just doing monologues or do or
just recording their thoughts something joke or, or doing much
more elaborate things where theyput on costumes and create
little movies. And the truth is, if you're
keeping yourself out there like that and you're creating
(09:56):
something interesting and original and funny or emotional
or insightful, you, you see it. You know, I mean, I work on a,
you know, regular old fashioned TV show, albeit it's on Netflix,
but a lot of people have been casting the show and part of
their resume is what they're posting online, what their
(10:17):
Instagram and, and their TikTok is.
I mean, that happened this season.
And, you know, there are people that I follow and it's more
comedy because that's the business I'm in.
And I think like she's really good.
I want I constantly seeing her online and I want to make sure
we we use her in a part or he's really good.
I mean, there's one guy that I was following his his
(10:40):
Instagram's Jay first one. He's just funny and he's like on
a series now. Do you know what I mean?
And that's from Instagram. So, you know, I think there's a
lot more at your disposal to to alleviate that sense of
helplessness. And I think if you're an actor
and you don't necessarily know how to write well, figure
something else out, do other people's material, but create
(11:02):
something and get yourself out there.
It's, it's much more, it's much more democratic.
It's a level playing field for everybody.
And it isn't necessarily you know who you know anymore.
But yeah, I, I, I think it's, it's a mistake, especially for
an actor to sit around and wait for the right part.
Get out there and do stuff, do a, play something online, write,
(11:28):
try to write something, even if it sucks.
Just learn that you're not a writer.
Let's talk about Emily in Paris.The fifth season returns this
month, but before we dive into the season and and what what you
all have been working on, I would love to hear more about
how the show came to you originally and what were your
first thoughts in hearing and experiencing this world.
(11:51):
Well, the show was created by Darren Starr of TV fame.
He's created a lot of shows likeBeverly Hills 9 O 210, Mel's
Place, Sex in the City. I think everybody knows all
that. But I did a pilot with Darren a
long time ago, and that was the first time I'd worked on TV
because I'd only done feature films before that.
(12:12):
And he'd seen one of my films, this movie called Dick with
Kirsten Dunst and Will Ferrell and Michelle Williams, and he
really liked it. And he had a pilot that he
wanted to do and offered it to me.
It's called Grosse Pointe. And it lasted a couple of
seasons. It was very, very funny.
But we, we became friendly and we, I, our tastes aligned.
(12:34):
You know, he was like a person that I felt like, I like the
stuff you like and you like the stuff I like.
And we, we found a way to, to work together that we really,
you know, we trusted each other.So we worked on a couple of
other shows along the way. There was 1 show, particularly
younger, where I would come and direct episodes of that.
And, and at one point he mentioned this show Emily in
(12:58):
Paris. And he sent me the script and I
thought it was great. And it's funny, I had been
trying to develop a show about an American male American chef
in Paris. So I had and I had sold it to
this one company and then another company.
So I spent a lot of time in Paris the previous two years
(13:19):
researching restaurants and justParis in general, spending a lot
of time there. So when it and then that fell
apart and that's the moment thatthe script fell into my lap.
So, you know, it was a case of something really collapsing and
then something else coming alongand kind of taking that, you
know, volition. And I was, I was struck by how
(13:45):
how different it was from everything on TV at the time,
because this was the moment it was, you know, kind of peak TV
era and everything was dark. It was serial killers and crime
and depression and indie, you know, little indie stuff.
And I thought, I remember thinking, because Younger was
(14:06):
ending and I remember thinking like, where's the show?
Like younger? Where's something that's fun?
And people are optimistic and it's cool places and cool
clothes. Let's just say it and, and, and
it's fun and funny, which is what TV was when I was growing
up. That's all it was.
It was just smiley, happy people.
(14:29):
And I thought, where is the, thefun, entertaining, escapist,
kind of Fair. And so I recognize that it was.
And this is a kind of a crass phrase unique in the marketplace
that there wasn't anything like it on TV when it came about.
And I think, I mean, I remember there was this one moment where
Darren was like, what is this show?
I mean, I think he was just having kind of a creative crisis
(14:51):
and he's like, what is it? Like, what is it?
And I just, I said, I think it'sreally different than
everything. I think people are going to
appreciate it. I but I thought it would find a
niche, you know, And so that's how it happened.
I just read the script and was on board and it was originally
(15:13):
the season was produced for the Paramount Network.
It wasn't for Netflix and it wasa very small budget.
But because I've always felt like you can take a small amount
of money and make it look fancier, more more expensive.
Especially in a city like Paris where you just go out on the
(15:33):
sidewalk and you have the EiffelTower and it looks like
1,000,000 bucks. So The Furious was very
inexpensive. And then Darren had the idea of
of wanting to have a larger platform.
I think when we started cutting the episodes together, he was
very encouraged and he thought maybe this is a bigger show than
we thought and talked Paramount into selling it to Netflix.
(15:56):
And we saw that first season 2019, and then the pandemic
happened. And I remember thinking, this
show is just going to get lost in the the apocalypse.
Nobody's going to want to pay attention to a young American
girl in Paris. But in fact, the exact opposite
(16:18):
happened is that everybody wanted a little Parisian
vacation. And it's really surprised all of
us about how how popular it was.It was just immediate.
People were just down for the ride, so it was kind of
phenomenal moments when that happened.
Now, I know that you directed the pilot of Emily and Paris,
(16:39):
but when Darren reached out, in what capacity was he wanting you
to come on board? Was it a a guest director
position? Was it a bigger role like you
have now? How?
How did that evolution grow? I think, I mean, I think
initially he just gave it to me and wanted to know my thoughts.
And I had just done a series foranother series for Netflix
(17:04):
called Insatiable. And I, I was, I had this job,
which is called being the directing producer, where I
direct a disproportionate numberof the episodes, but then I'm
around for the other directors to kind of coordinate them to
help them bring their vision, but also just make sure that
(17:24):
every part of the show fits together.
So it was a bigger job than justdirecting.
And I, and I know that I wanted to do that for, for Emily.
And so, you know, I, I propose that at the outset of being an
executive producer and being the, the directing producers so
that I can help crew up, help find the other directors and,
(17:48):
and coordinate all of that. So it's a, it's a, it's a very,
it's, it's the most demanding job I've ever had.
It's it's more than directing a feature film.
It's exponentially a greater task than that.
Now, as a producing director, how do you like to inform and
(18:09):
educate your guest directors coming in of the voice of Emily
and this world that you all havebeen working on for so many
years? But also allowing them the space
to leave their thumbprint on it and, and get to, you know,
stretch their muscles a little bit.
Well, on Emily, we've had the luxury of, of, of hiring really
(18:30):
great people. And the show has a kind of
kitchen sink technique. You can do kooky angles.
You can do, you know, lots of camera movements.
You can do graphics on the screen.
It's you can kind of get away with anything.
Because my, my theory, my, my pretentious film school theory
(18:54):
is that I think movies should beexecuted in a way that is as if
the lead character is telling you the story.
It's, and, and Emily is a very effervescent, optimistic,
stylish person. And the show is that it's
colourful and it's, it's fast-paced and it's jumps around
(19:14):
and it's, you know, interested in style and, and like she is.
So we're, we're in a very advantageous situation because
we can encourage directors to throw everything at the show to,
to bring their, to fly their freak flag and bring a lot of
technique to come up with fun angles to, you know, be overhead
(19:36):
and spin around and to fill the frame with color and a lot of
movement and long steady camp shots.
That it that it's the the show absorbs that energy really well.
It's it's very few scenes that are just normal master, single,
single. There are a few, but very, very
(19:57):
few. You've directed a number of
pilots in your career and helping set the tone for a show
and and and help establish its voice from page to screen.
I'm sure there's a lot of responsibility.
I'm curious what was unique about the experience of
directing the pilot for Emily and.
Paris. Well, I've never directed in a
(20:21):
non-english speaking country before and you know, I think
they're all different. I think I would hope that all of
the films and all of the pilots that I've done, I've tried to
bring a different style. I don't, I don't have a style.
I try to create a style for the show.
And I think, you know, there were a couple of different
(20:42):
priorities with Emily is that I thought it should be really
beautiful. I think it's reflecting her
point of view, or our point of view when we go to Paris for the
first time is that you just see how beautiful it is, how quaint.
And you see the architecture andyou see these adorable little
cafes and the flower shops. And you don't see the garbage
(21:03):
and you don't see, you know, thetacky advertisements.
You, you see the beautiful parts.
And so I felt like let's idealize the city and not show
The Dirty parts as much, especially in the pilot.
I think since then we've, we have a broader view of the, of
the city, but it's a it's an idealized, you know, version of
(21:25):
the city. I think.
I definitely thought that pace should be brisk, that it should
should always be something goingon that it's not.
It doesn't linger in, in depression.
You know, I think in the pilot, there's one moment where Emily's
kind of sad because she's in Paris and she's doesn't have any
friends. And we let that kind of linger.
(21:48):
She's wandering through cafes. The cadence slowed down there,
but otherwise it was very brisk.I thought it should be colorful
like her. Her wardrobe.
Paris can be Gray. I thought it was important to
incorporate color. The response was so overwhelming
with Season 1 and and the fans love and adoration for Emily in
this world. What were those meetings like in
(22:11):
coming back in preparation for season 2?
What were the the ways that you all wanted to challenge
yourself? What were the things that you
wanted to take from what the fans were loving and expand on
those storylines? You know, from the start, there
was this very, very sunny disposition to Emily.
And I think we wanted her to to grow up a little bit.
(22:33):
And I think she has every seasonshe's become a little more
French, a little less naive, a little more cynical, a little
smarter, little craftier. And she's opened her heart to
people. You know, she isn't so perfect.
She's we see her more as a flawed character.
And I think this season you'll see especially, you know, the
(22:55):
the show and she are maturing. I do go into the room at the
beginning of the writers room and, and throw out my ideas and
show restaurants that I think would be interesting and places
for her to go and just ideas of the types of characters, you
know, real people who could enter her world and just throw
(23:17):
things out to try to be, you know, a stimulus because they're
always grasping for ideas. Because I'm, I'm constantly
looking at social media. What's the new restaurant in
Paris? What's the new hotel?
What's the new place to go the exhibition?
So the, the challenge really is to keep topping ourselves
(23:40):
because there there are what we call set pieces in the show.
There are fashion shows, there are parties, there are montages,
there are musical numbers. And we keep having more of them
and we keep trying to make them bigger and bigger.
The challenges How do we keep trying to outdo ourselves?
Going back to your two years with Meisner, how does that
(24:02):
understanding of being in the actor's shoes, does any of that
still in in the back of your mind inform you as a director
and how you communicate with actors?
Yeah, I will say that doing thatprogram showed me more about how
to write, because it's all in writing is improvisation.
But I think what it showed me isthat when I would do an
(24:25):
exercise, you're in it and then you pop out of it because the
scene is over and you're lookingaround and people want to
discuss, you know, the class andthe teacher will discuss it is
that you're, you're kind of in astate of shock a little bit like
you don't know what happened exactly.
And so if somebody comes at you with a list of 27 things to do
differently, it's it's overwhelming and you can't
(24:48):
really respond. But if somebody comes in and
says just slow down and relax and like pay attention to her,
you know, something simple or, you know, faster or, or, you
know, be distracted, but give them something simple to do.
And, you know, I, I kind of havelike a, a rule, I don't give
(25:12):
actors, you know, more than two or three things after each take,
because after that it's just a list.
So, and, and I've also learned over the years, which is just
let them do it again. You know what I mean?
Like, maybe don't criticize them, say that's great, Just do
it one more time and they will self correct.
I really, I try to give less andless direction, and I find that
(25:37):
a lot of what I'm doing now is talking about pace and talking
about where you are in the frame, because the frame really
matters. On Emily in Paris, the frames
are very organized. Less is more.
What can you tell us about Season 5?
Well, there's no secret that she's in Italy at the beginning
(25:57):
and then she goes back to Paris and then she goes somewhere
else, which is Venice. So there's a lot of, there's a
lot of jumping around and her relationships are very
complicated. There's, there are a couple of
curveballs at the end of the season in terms of Emily's
(26:21):
trajectory, but there are a lot of curveballs with Mindy.
There's a lot of curveballs withwork.
There's a lot of a lot of reallygood reversals.
And I, there's a couple of episodes, two that I did and
that I feel are really emotional, like in a, in a, in a
(26:41):
subtle way. They're not dramatic, they're
not melodramatic, but they're fun.
But there's something, there's like a sort of swell of emotion
under them. And I, I, I feel like it's a, a
deeper season with, with Emily. And I will say I think Lily is
is really, really good to the season.
(27:03):
I think her performance is amazing this season.
What has been your favorite storyline or episode to date?
I think 2 of them because there's, there were scenes that
I, you know, are just crazy etched in my, my brain, like
when we went to Versailles had this crazy hip hop fashion show.
So over the top and exciting. But, you know, then there's the
(27:26):
other end of the spectrum, whichis just very simple scenes.
There's this episode 6 this season, which is really about
Emily and Mindy's relationship because they're always just
pals. And then that episode is very,
there's a wrench, a wrench thrown in the machine and they
(27:49):
sort of test the limits of theirfriendship.
And that it was very emotional for me, you know, because that's
in in many ways the backbone of the show is it's Emily and her
best friend. It's also Emily and, and Sylvia
at work and the, and the guys too.
But Emily and Mindy are really, you know, the, the, the centre
(28:10):
of the show of her in terms of her personal life.
And so it was, it was rich territory.
I love that episode. And then there's episode 9 is
very emotional and it's not. Neither of those episodes is
really big as a giant set piece or anything, but those are two
really, really great episodes. Now you've described your tone
(28:31):
as a mix of sharpness and warmth.
Where does that duality and balance come from in your
creative process? I mean, I feel like I learned
this from my first couple of movies.
Is that I like the emotion. I like conflict and and drama,
but I also like when things are funny and and absurd.
(28:57):
And you know, my first movie wasa horror movie, but there's a
there were a lot of jokes in it.And then my second movie was a
comedy, but kids in college, butthere's a lot of kind of
heartbreak and longing in it. And then my third movie was this
movie about witchcraft, which was a horror movie.
But what I saw recently, I thought, like, a lot of this is
(29:20):
funny. A lot of this is propelled by
what's funny, darkly funny aboutthe scene.
And so I like that space in between where where there's
emotion, but then there's also, you know, ridiculous human
behavior that makes you laugh. The light and the dark.
Before we go into your writing, I do want to talk just briefly
(29:42):
about your approach to rehearsals.
Well, it's interesting because the process of directing,
process of shooting is differentin France than it is in the US.
In the US, especially on ATV show, the actors show up at call
(30:03):
and the actors and the director block everything and you run it
and then everybody watches that.Then you invite the crew to
watch. They put down tape and you talk
about how to break it up. In Europe, the tradition is the
director shows up at the crew and says, this is what I want.
And the director, it's the norm there.
(30:24):
I mean, it's this is how it always happens.
But I'm expected to block it outwithout the actress being there
because they're getting ready. And I've tried to bring it over
to the American system, but theyjust, it just, it constantly
keeps reverting. Well, they're 5 miles away
getting ready. If we bring them over now, then
(30:44):
send them back to finish gettingready, we'll lose 45 minutes.
And, and I said, OK, fine. So, and I've only done Emily in
France, the, the actors have learned to trust me in terms of
how to block the scene, that I'll give them a natural place
to stand and that, you know, that the pause is here and then
(31:05):
you sit down and we, we work that out and, and I will tweak
it if it doesn't work when I seeit with them and they don't like
it if they don't like it, but I'm expected to block the whole
scene out before anybody shows up.
And, but you know, I, I feel like rehearsal is really
important when you're, when actors are figuring out who a
(31:27):
character is. These people know who they are
and I let them run it as many times as they want beforehand
before we roll. But I also really love the idea
of just rolling the camera when they're not 100% because they
may make a mistake. That's fabulous.
(31:47):
It's, it's in France called Reptune, which is a repetition
is, is rehearsal and tune, tune is shooting.
So it's the, the portmanteau of the two words repertooned.
And it's like what when we say shooting the rehearsal and the
(32:08):
actors are kind of why, what, what, what, what, But it's, it's
good. It gets everybody ready and it,
it gets the hair and makeup people out.
You know, they can do the last look and they they need to get
out. I love the hair and make of
people. I love all the wardrobe people.
They're geniuses. They've been nominated for so
many Emmys, but there's so many of them.
(32:31):
And they're so concerned about, you know, every lock of hair is
that sometimes you need to, to stand back and let people get
messy. But yeah, so, so the, the, the
truth is we don't get a lot of rehearsal on the show, but I
think it's OK. Generally, I do like it if we're
doing a movie from scratch, I like to spend a couple of days,
(32:53):
you know, working with the actors and let them improvise
and talk about and what does this mean and go through every
scene. I'm a big, big, big believer in
rehearsals. You know, weeks of it if you
can, but usually there isn't enough time.
I want to talk about your writing for a little bit.
Where do you feel you are most creative?
It's the hardest thing. I mean, writing is so much
(33:14):
harder than directing in my opinion, because you're, you're
coming up with something. And I, I don't really write on
Emily and Paris, though. I go into the writers room and I
interact with them a lot. But I have been writing other
things separately. You know, however, you can do
it, however you can come up withideas.
(33:36):
My process has been I think of an idea and, and I get super
excited about it. And that's an amazing idea.
And these are the characters andthis is the tone and how it goes
forward. And you know, if you keep
getting excited about it, if youkeep coming up with ideas, I
write things down on index cards.
Sometimes I make notes on my laptop, but historically it
(33:59):
would be index cards. And then back in the day when I
was writing features from scratch, what I'm still doing
that a little bit. But you know, if the stack got
this big, you know, couple of inches, then OK, that's enough
for a movie. And then you put them in an
order and say, oh, that's kind of a natural at end of act one.
(34:22):
And this is kind of a good climax at the end of Act 2.
And so I come up with the ideas for scenes and lines and
characters and then organize them.
And I've always found that it's really important to have an
ending before you start because endings are the hardest part.
If you are marching through it and you don't have an ending,
(34:43):
then you've set up all this stuff and you don't know.
How do you make all of it pay off?
I, I do believe in that. I know some people just start at
the beginning and work their waytowards the ending.
I don't know how they do that. As a writer, director, how do
you balance the roles? Well, they're the same thing.
I mean, it's coming up with waysof, you know, this is how it
(35:04):
happens. This is what it sounds like,
this is what it feels like. I will say I write thinking in
terms of shots. So I'm, I'm directing when I'm
writing. So they're, they're, they're
very connected for me. A struggle that a lot of writers
know is trying to figure out when do you continue to try to
(35:24):
make an idea work, and how do you continue to try to workshop
it? Or when do you sit it down and
let it rest and then come back to it?
I'm curious how you learned thatfor yourself through trial and
error. Well, I, it's really it, it's
it's I, I believe the whole thing is self regulating because
if you're enthusiastic about it,then you keep going.
If if it sickens you and bores you, then don't do it.
(35:49):
And in the case of Ideal Home, though, the pause was that I
came up with this story with these two characters, Paul and
Erasmus. And I really love the
characters, but the story wasn'tworking.
The story wasn't there and then this I had a conversation with
this woman, a producer, and she introduced circumstance to me
(36:11):
and I thought, oh, I have these characters sitting in a drawer.
I can put them in the thing you're talking about.
And and that's how that happened.
It was just, you know, and that's the same thing happened
with Dick is that there's, if you have a character you really
like, that's really the gold youthat that they're, you know,
(36:37):
their life force is interesting to you.
And, and then if they have a voice, if you, if you know how
they talk, that's immensely helpful because I love, you
know, people who use language ina specific way.
And that that movie, Paul and Arasos had two very, very
specific voices. And that's, I felt like I could
(37:01):
come up with three more storylines with those two
characters that I would be happyto do that, you know, over and
over. Are there any pivotal lessons
that some of your projects have taught you that you carry on
still today? Well, talking about Ideal Home,
Steve Coogan and Paul Rudd, the two actors who played those
(37:21):
parts, are pretty knowledgeable about comedy.
And I wanted the movie to be this mixture of emotion and
comedy. And there were a couple of
scenes where the scene ended dramatically and Steve and our
Paul would inevitably come up with a joke after the dramatic
(37:44):
part. And I was like, you can't like,
can we just end the scene dramatically?
And they're like, Andy, just because it's funny doesn't mean
it's it's, it's not serious. And I, it was, it's a lesson
that I keep learning over and over.
And it's, it doesn't apply to everybody because some people
don't write comedy. But you can have real emotion in
the scene and then a character can make a joke about what's
happening and it doesn't undercut the reality of the
(38:07):
scene. In fact, that's what people do.
You know, in the middle of a horrible, you know, something
horrible is happening in a hospital, the person on the
operating table makes a joke. It happens all the time.
That lesson is that jokes or comedy, unless they're out of
character, don't lessen the emotional gravity of a scene.
(38:28):
And I think a lot of the times they can intensify things.
You know, I think in a horror movie, when something's really
tense and somebody makes a joke,it's this release, you know, and
it so the audience relaxes a little bit and then you can
scare the bejesus out of them. It's it's part of the language.
Well, it keeps you curious and inspired as the industry
(38:50):
continues to change. So whatever is coming at me, I
want to make it happen. Yeah.
I mean, I think if I was independently wealthy, I
probably would think, oh, I don't need to do this.
So it's nice to have bills to pay and keeps you going back.
I mean, there are a couple timeswhere I did projects.
(39:12):
So I was like, I'm not sure I want to do it, but I don't have
anything else to do. And what, maybe it wasn't a
great idea, but I learned something from it, moved me on
to the next thing, or I had a great experience doing it, or I
met somebody great or just had agood time.
It's it's important to just keepdoing things.
(39:34):
As we wind down, do you have anyadvice for young creatives,
directors or actors that are trying to find their creative
ways or find their creative community?
Well, I mean, in in reflecting back on our therapy session
here, I think if you're a writer, you know, try acting.
(39:55):
If you're an actor, try writing.If you're a director, take an
acting class. But like those things diversify.
I think any kind of creative education is good.
You, you have to keep learning things, learn how to.
Learn how to draw, learn how to do musical play, play, play an
(40:19):
instrument. You know, we didn't talk about
music, but music is incredibly important.
It's, it's, you know, music is really one of the things that
helps me get into the head of, of, of a movie or, or whatever
I'm doing. And, and I, I see shots or I
think of things that could happen from a piece of music.
(40:41):
I remember when I was writing the craft, there were a couple
of albums that just completely were the voice or the the sound
in my head when I was writing scenes for that movie.
Annie, it has been so fun chatting with you.
We end every episode the same way.
What is one thing you wish you could go back and tell your
younger self? I would tell myself it's all
going to be good, it's all goingto work out and to not worry so
(41:05):
much to just move forward. Well, thank you so much for
making the time to chat. Congratulations on Season 5, I'm
so excited to watch. Thank you.
I'm excited for people to see itand this has been great.
Hi everyone, thanks for listening and being the absolute
best part of our creative community here at What's My
(41:25):
Frame? If you'd like to learn more
about our guests, please check out the show notes and please
join us on socials at What's My Frame?
To stay in the know for upcomingevents, I'm your host, Laura
Linda Bradley. We'll see you next Monday.
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