May 26, 2025 • 38 mins
Mattson, Alec, and JJ have a discission that revolves around the cinematic exploration of "Hacksaw Ridge," a film directed by Mel Gibson that recounts the extraordinary true story of Desmond Doss, the first conscientious objector to receive the Medal of Honor. We delve into the complexities of Doss's character, who, despite refusing to carry a weapon, demonstrated unparalleled bravery by saving numerous soldiers during the Battle of Okinawa. The discussion highlights the dichotomy between the film's compelling portrayals of heroism and the criticisms of Gibson's directorial choices, particularly regarding historical accuracy. We reflect on the emotional weight of the film's climactic battle scenes, which serve as a testament to Doss's conviction and courage, juxtaposed against the slower narrative build-up that precedes them. Ultimately, this episode serves as a profound examination of the moral dilemmas faced by individuals in wartime, as well as the impact of storytelling in shaping our understanding of historical events.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Right.
So I think Mel Gibson makesphenomenal movies.
I don't think he should beallowed anywhere near anything historical
or not be allowed to make anykind of call on a movie about history,
because he makes very, verygood movies.
But he takes the book and justthrows out the window.
(00:27):
Welcome to the what's up?
Every podcast, we fashionourselves cinematic judge and jury.
My name's J.J.
crowder.
I'm here with my co host, Matzenheider.
Shout out to my boy, Jaden Daniels.
Let's go.
Commanders this year.
Better Red and dead and Alec Burgess.
Commander's never gonna win.
Let's get.
Hey, nfc.
We went to the NFC championship.
(00:48):
We will be back.
We have one time in the last.
What, 50 years because we gotrid of the tyrant Daniel Snyder and
we actually have life again.
Okay, Yeah, I heard all before.
Remember, I grew up in San Diego.
I was a Chargers fan.
It never gets any better, dude.
You just think it does.
We actually have aquarterback, though.
I.
I would get in on thisargument, but I'm a Browns fan, so
(01:11):
it's.
It's.
It's no way to live.
Did I introduce you, Alec?
I think I did, yeah.
You argued that they'll neverwin, so, yeah, there we are.
Look.
What a weird way to start.
But I like it.
We're in week four, the finalweek of our war month.
Month of war movies.
Yeah.
And we're wrapping it up withan interesting one.
(01:33):
We're kicking off with Hacksaw Ridge.
It was released November 4, 2016.
It was written by RobertShinkon, Andrew Knight.
It was directed by Mel Gibson.
Stars Andrew Garfield, SamWorthington, Luke Bracey, Teresa
Palmer, Richard Pyros, JacobWarner, Darcy Bryce, James Lugton,
(01:53):
Kasha Stelmack, Hugo Weaving,Rachel Griffiths, and Tyler Coppin.
It is about.
And there's a whole lot morein this that I.
I'm just done reading names,but yeah, it's about a World War
II American medic, Desmond T.
Doss, serving during theBattle of Okinawa, refuses to kill
people and becomes the firstman in American history to receive
the Medal of Honor withoutfiring a shot.
(02:15):
That's it.
That's an in depth synopsisthere, but, yeah, there's that one.
Matson, this was your pick, right?
This was my pick.
Tell us why, oh, why thismovie came out, I think, in, like,
what you just said.
2016.
Right.
Or roughly around there.
This is one of those moviesthat I remember just hearing, like,
(02:35):
wow, like, have you seenHacksaw Ridge?
Like, you got to go seeHacksaw Ridge at least in my sphere
of influence, this is actuallylike the year before I met J.J.
ironically enough.
And I just remember, like, thebuzz around it.
And I was like, well, seemslike a movie that I would probably
enjoy.
And at the time, I.
(02:56):
I knew who Andrew Garfield was.
I think he had already playedSpider man, right?
At least one once or twice.
And so I liked him.
I.
I thought he was an actorthat, like, I had positive recollection
of.
I didn't know anything aboutthe setting in this movie, but I
like more movies.
So I was like, all right, I'mgonna give it a chance.
I mean, when I rememberwatching it, it was interesting to
(03:18):
me because he's a Seventh Day Adventist.
So, like, the aspects of relplay, his morality, but then getting
thrown into the face thatyou're in the army, you're really
not going to take a shot.
Like, really not going to do it.
But then as he goes throughcamp, it's like, well, if you want
to be a combat vet, I get youcan be a liability because you, you're
not going to take a life.
But, like, shoot, if you're agood one, like, can't that also work?
(03:40):
And I.
It was interesting to see therigidity of the military.
But then you, like, you.
You start watching, like,well, that's how they exactly would
react.
Because this is also audaciousfor this person coming to say, I'm
not going to shoot a freaking rifle.
It's like, just pick up therifle, pass the class.
Maybe you never take another shot.
Like, you don't have to bethis difficult.
But it's two very obstinateorganization and individual meeting
(04:05):
coming together.
And I thought that was reallyinteresting is I come from a faith
that definitely, like, wedon't do stuff on a lot of things
on Sundays.
When he talked about MySabbath is on the Saturday and like,
all that, you're like, oh,like, here we go.
Like, setting the line.
Like, is he going to.
Is he going to give in?
He got beat up.
Is he going to quit?
(04:25):
So that was really interestingto me.
The other thing that was funnyto me is Vince Vaughn in this movie
who, like, I don't think upuntil this movie I'd never seen him
play anything that wasn't acomedic role.
I honestly don't think I'veseen him in anything since.
And sure he has, but I justhaven't seen him.
So it was weird to see him inthat role.
It was like when the guy thatplays Ross and Friends, what's.
(04:50):
I don't know what's his actual name.
Whatever it is.
David Schwimmer.
When he was in Band ofBrothers as the same type of role
as Vince Vaughn, I was like,you got to be freaking kidding me.
They like took.
This is the same type of.
They took someone funny andput him in like a very serious role.
Yeah.
And it's not like he.
I just remember seeing thatwas like, oh, this is weird.
I never thought that.
(05:10):
And then the actual subjectmatter of the movie, once they get
to Hacksaw Ridge, that's whereI think this movie actually shines.
I think some of the lead up tothis movie.
Yeah, it's kind of lukewarmfor me.
It's.
It's a little bit of a slow.
Like it is a slow burn.
I.
I have to admit, like I.
The thing with his.
(05:32):
The girl that he ends upmarrying and like they're in the
family dynamic.
Like, I don't know, like itdidn't hit home for me as much.
But once you got to the actuallike war scenes and like putting
his morality to.
To the test and actuallyseeing what he did, incredible.
I thought they depicted whatactually happened there.
I thought it was captivating,interesting and just incredible.
(05:56):
Like that's really what he did.
My God.
Like, damn.
Like amazing.
Wow.
Like I thought that was awesome.
I just think leading up to itto me left a.
Definitely some to be desired.
I'm happy I watched it.
I think it was interesting.
Definitely incredible story.
I'm glad that they told itdifferent type of war movie though
(06:19):
because it, it showed the.
The goriness and grittiness of war.
But from a lens of.
This is a person that didn't fight.
But here's what he did.
So there's a long winded wayto say Startup is a different type
of war movie and I wanted tothrow it out there.
Yeah.
What about you, Alec?
Had you seen this before or isthis a.
No, I'd seen it before.
It's.
(06:39):
It's a.
It's another tricky onebecause Mel Gibson.
Right.
So I think Mel Gibson makesphenomenal movies.
I don't think he should beallowed anywhere near anything historical
or not be allowed to make anykind of call on a movie about history.
Because he makes very, verygood movies.
(07:01):
But he takes the book and justkind of throws out the window and
the like the annoying part forme, right, is that he went around
and he would say like, ohyeah, we toned down this movie from
the heroics.
Which is usually the reverse.
Right.
Usually you take something,you kind of build out promotional
Hollywood he's like, no, thisguy was so cool, we had to make it
worse for tv.
(07:21):
So over movie.
So be believable.
And it's like, why?
Yeah, all right, first of all, why?
And then similar to Matt's andVince Vaughn throws me for a loop.
He has a phenomenal jobplaying the character, but the entire
time it feels wrong.
And you get to the point likein basic, right, where you kind of
(07:42):
first get introduced to himand he's just going up and down the
line a little bit reminiscentof Full Metal Jacket and you know,
Private Idiot and kind ofThere's a knife in my foot and all
that.
That funny stuff that's veryVince Vaughn, but it's at odds with
almost the entire rest of the character.
And he's trying almost to playit this serious way.
(08:03):
And so that throws me for a loop.
But the movie is phenomenal.
I love this movie and I thinkit's a.
A very good one to watch.
But I don't think Mel Gibsonshould be allowed to direct historical
movies in any way, shape or form.
It's funny.
I just think Mel Gibsonshouldn't be able to.
Allowed to speak in public.
(08:23):
Like, that's.
That guy can't.
Because I.
I'm with you.
Like, I think he's aphenomenal movie maker and actor,
but when he says thingsoutside of being scripted, just stop,
stop.
No.
Yeah.
Look, I.
This was, I was, I was veryhappy that this made the list because
(08:44):
like, this was a sleeper for me.
I like war movies, but I'mvery careful with them because I
think sometimes they get madetoo often.
At least they used to.
It's been a while since I'veseen a strong war movie.
But I also tend to like, I'mvery skeptical going in because like
(09:04):
focusing on one person in awar, I'm like, that's kind of crazy.
But I will say this is one ofthose movies.
And matted to your point,like, it's kind of a slow burn for
a while.
Like, you're like, man,there's a lot of like lead up to
this movie and build up.
But I think what this moviedoes very well is like the payoff
it make like if you didn't have.
(09:28):
Look, I've gone back and I'vewatched YouTube for like videos of
like the.
And the last of him pullingeverybody out, right?
And it gets you, but it getsme because I've seen the rest of
it already, right?
And I think like that's one ofthose things where this movie as
good as the end is whether youwatch the rest of it or not.
Like, if you watch his.
His achievements during thisbattle on Hacksaw Ridge, it will
(09:53):
get you, like, motivated and,you know, like, you're like, wow,
this is insane.
And look at what this guy's doing.
But if you watch the wholemovie, it's even better because you
see that one.
The struggle that he goesthrough to be able to still be a
soldier and yet havepermission to not carry a rifle.
(10:18):
It's a lot.
And all of these people,there's very few, if any, that are
actually supportive of him,like, even to the point of his dad,
like, being an absolute dick.
Right?
Like, so it's like, nobody'ssupportive of what he's trying to
do.
And yet it's all these peoplethat aren't supportive that he's
pulling off this mountain atthe end.
So it's like watching thathappen to me is like.
(10:40):
I was like, man, this isslower than dog.
The first time I watch him inthe theater going, this is slow.
When are we gonna see some war?
And then I went, holy.
Without that, this would.
Would have been great, butit's unreal.
Good.
Yeah, it's because thosescenes, him getting beaten up, the
struggle with the.
(11:00):
His commander.
Gosh, why am I forgetting that?
Sam Worthington.
I don't know.
His.
Yeah, his.
His commander.
What's his name?
Captain Glover.
Then there's Smitty Stars andhow, like, Alton and some of the
other people that are part ofthe company that the names don't
remember as much.
(11:20):
Like, you can see thedisrespect they had for him.
And they did a really good jobbuilding that, showing that.
And even when they got there,like, they're still just like, yeah,
I don't know.
And then he starts to do whathe does, and you can just see, like,
in their eyes, like, wow.
Like, dosses.
The.
And then the scene where they're.
This.
The day they go back, they'rewaiting for him to pray.
(11:44):
And who knows if that actuallyhappened or not.
Whether it did or didn't.
Real life, I'm sure there'ssomething similar to that.
And you knew, like, you'relike, they all believe in this dude
because they think he's awalking miracle.
And clearly.
What.
What miracle?
Karma.
You would got the luck of10,000 rabbit feet.
I don't care what you believein that point, you wanted that dude
(12:05):
on your side, and it all paidoff because of the way that they
showed.
I think what didn't land forme as much was more like the.
The PG romance with Dorothythat I just.
Yeah.
Like, I don't know.
Like, I get why she was a partof including very important to his
identity and his motivation,but the way that they portrayed it,
I.
(12:26):
That part just didn't have asmuch of the payoff for me.
But the rest of it, you needed it.
Because without understandinghis struggle and the way that he
went through it, like JJ said,like, it still would have been.
I mean, still riveting onscreen, but it wouldn't have landed
in the emotional way that itdid because he.
He went above and beyond thecall of duty for people that didn't
(12:47):
want anything to do with him.
And he did it because he justknew that was his duty.
And also just the sheer.
Like, you're doing all that,and you've got these soldiers on
the other side that willliterally just kill you and themselves
at the same time.
And you're just runningamongst the clouds and the smoke
and making it happen.
(13:08):
Like, I love the scenes in the.
The.
The tunnels, because that'show the Japanese survived a lot more,
because they built thoseintricate tunnels.
Amazing.
Like, he could have died so many.
I mean, they showed.
I'm sure if you.
You interviewed him, I'm surehe probably could have died, like,
20 times, who knows how many times.
And I'm glad they showed someof that because I'm sure he came
(13:28):
close to death multiple times.
Oh, for sure.
For sure.
Yeah.
And I think this is another movie.
We've had a few of them thismonth where, like, the cast is unreal.
And so, like, the acting is good.
And to your point, like, it'sweird seeing Vince Vaughn.
I will say that he was in an.
He was in a season of TrueDetective where he was, like, a bad
(13:50):
guy kind of thing.
And that was even weirder to get.
I don't think he was bad, though.
No, he was phenomenal in it.
Like, it just was odd.
Like, it doesn't.
It's like watching.
It's like watching a footballplayer play basketball.
It just doesn't feel right.
But at the same time, itdoesn't mean that they're bad at
basketball.
They're probably really goodat it.
And he's.
(14:10):
Yeah.
So he acts.
And, like, one of my favoriteparts is at the end when he's saving.
When.
When Doss is saving him, andhe's like, give me your rifle.
He's like, it's a little latenow, don't you think?
Like, I love that line, to me,is one of fast.
And then he looks at him funnyand rolls it up in the.
In the blanket and tells himto get on.
I wanted that blanket scene.
(14:30):
I, like, I'm sure it wasn'treal, but damn, I was like, man,
I wanted that to be like ahundred percent real because that
looked cool.
I was like, whoever came upwith that, way to go.
That was cool.
Yeah, yeah.
Or he's like, dragging his assand shooting.
Yeah, that was cool.
The whole, like, the wholething is just wild.
And then, you know, there'sthese moments, like, where you can
tell, like, this dude has tobe unbelievably exhausted because,
(14:53):
like, it's not a little waysthat he's traveling, carrying these
guys, dragging these guys.
You got to worry about beingquiet and getting in a fight and
like.
Or getting, you know, all thatstuff, like, and then tying them
up and then, like, holding the road.
Like, his hands had to havebeen just pure.
How many calories did he burn?
That's what I want to know.
It's going crazy.
(15:13):
Like, 110 pounds soaking wet.
Yeah.
He wasn't a big guy.
No, it was not a big dude.
Like, human.
And they weren't dead, buthuman beings that are, like, basically
dead weight.
Like, it's a rough life.
Yeah.
To move them.
Yeah, that's.
It's nuts.
And I, you know, and I.
Look, Andrew, what's.
(15:34):
What's Garfield?
Garfield does an outrageouslygood job in this role.
And I think the scene for me,like, when he's all done and he jumps
off the rope at the end and he.
With the other dude, and,like, the guys come out and try to
grab him, and he, like, loseshis, like.
I like, to me, that moment isso poignant because you're like,
yeah, dude, these got to be horrified.
Like, the amount of, like, onedge and, like, in fear all the time.
(15:59):
He was.
For however many hours he wasup on that mountain dragging people
off, like, good Lord, I can'teven imagine.
And then what's even morebatshit is, like, two days later,
a day late, whatever it is, hegoes back up.
You know what I mean?
And it's like, geez, what the hell?
So, you know, it's.
It's interesting where the.
(16:21):
The juxtaposition, if youwill, of the two movies that we've
reviewed the last two weeks,like, you have the Deer Hunter, which
is like, there's no heroism.
I mean, there is, right?
There's the moment of Mikesaving everybody and, like, they
jailbreak.
But, like, there's no feelgood about that because even though
they escape like, it's notlike they escaped anything good here.
(16:42):
Like, it's almost the exact opposite.
You're watching something verysimilar where it's this escape and
he's saving people, butyou're, like, full of this, like,
motivation, and you're like,yeah, like, rooting for, you know,
so it's.
It's wild how you can take twovery desperate situations that are
very similar in.
In what's happening in thesituation that they're in, and yet
(17:03):
two very different aspects ofit and very different viewpoints.
And so I really enjoy this onebecause you come away going.
And let's be honest, thismovie doesn't end very well either.
Like, because he goes back upand gets half blown away.
So it's just like, what the.
But at the same time, like,you just.
(17:23):
The understanding of why he'sdoing what he's doing is just epic
to me.
Like, that's why, like,there's, like, I get all sorts of,
like, amped up when I watchthis movie.
And, like, even as.
As hard and sad as it is,like, you can't help but just have
that reverence for whatever heactually did, whether it was accurately
portrayed in the movie or not.
(17:44):
Like, if he did that with oneguy, that's the right.
Like.
So anyway, go ahead, Alec.
You look like you're about tosay so.
Oh, no, I was just agreeingwith everything you said.
You can hit the nail on the head.
Gotcha.
I like it.
Yeah, I think, you know, that's.
To me, one of the craziestpieces of this movie is, like, just
(18:06):
the fact that you're watchingsomething that even if they make
it outlandish compared to thereal story, like, the.
The fact that it's rooted insome level of truth.
Like, I want to know moreabout this guy and, like, his motivations
and what happened to him after.
And, like, like, all thatstuff to me is just wild because
I would not be this dude.
(18:28):
You know what I mean?
I'd be the dude.
Like, I'd be giving this dude hell.
Like, what the are you doing?
I don't want to fight with youif you don't got a gun.
Like, get the out of here with that.
Like, I'd be pissed.
Oh, we all would.
It's so easy to think, oh,you'd be the person they understand.
I, like, I'm a nice humanbeing, but I'm sure I'd have been
a dick, too.
I know you two would have been that.
Yeah, absolutely, dude.
(18:49):
You know how.
How problematic that dude is,like, from A leadership standpoint.
Oh, like at the squad level,like, I got Desmond Dosso.
Yeah.
Like, just the.
The hoops you'd have to jumpthrough from a leadership standpoint,
trying to figure out what todo with this guy.
(19:09):
Just would not be.
Yeah.
Alec froze.
I love it when Alec freezes.
He's back.
Yeah, I froze.
I was done.
Anyway.
That's funny.
No, I.
Yeah.
And I think about it fromlike, a guy.
If you're in the trenches withthis dude and you got a gun and people
are shooting at you and he'slaying there, I'd be like, listen,
(19:30):
I'm just gonna go ahead andshoot you so I don't have to feel
like I gotta take care of your ass.
Right.
Like, I.
To me, like, I can't imagine.
Not to mention your ownpersonal mentality of, I'm gonna
go to war without a weapon.
The.
Out of here with that.
Like, the balls that you needto, like, decide you're gonna do
(19:52):
that.
Like, I can't even fathom.
Like, I.
I talk to my friends who arevets, I watch war movies, and I go,
I wouldn't make it in war in a tank.
You know what I mean?
Let alone, like, out in theopen as an infantryman with a weapon.
And then you say, ah, you know what?
I don't need a weapon.
(20:12):
I'm just gonna go save people.
I don't have that kind of balls.
I don't have that kind of bravery.
Well, the other flip of thecoin of that.
Right.
Is being able to be abattlefield medicine.
Like, that isn't easy either,especially in the Pacific because
Japanese soldiers saw the RedCross and like, oh, target practice.
Yeah.
(20:34):
Like, it's not a fun experience.
You're probably attracted alot more not.
Fun when you're, like.
When he realizes at thebeginning they show it.
He's, like, trying to save everybody.
And then that the.
The guy that's been in commenta lot is like, I'll just give morphine
and move on.
And how many times do theyhave to do.
Probably way too many times.
You're basically justaccepting people are dying all the
time.
Yeah.
(20:55):
Yeah.
For a guy like that, that's.
It's like his worst nightmare.
He doesn't even.
He's just trying to do his duty.
But the dude is.
He's like a little baby rabbit.
Doesn't want to be.
You don't want to be out theredoing that.
Yeah.
He wants to be back withDorothy doing his thing.
Yeah.
Well, and that's the other thing.
Like, you think About a medic.
(21:15):
Not only that, even you takethe patch off.
You're trying to patchsomebody up.
Gunfire going off, bombsexploding grenades going out like
that.
I want to be in a hole with agun, and I'm not even looking.
Just putting the.
You know what I mean?
Like, Jay's just out theredoing a little Pew, pew.
Yeah.
I'm like.
(21:35):
I'm like.
I'm no scoping dude.
I'm just.
JJ's got a Twinkie, and he's just.
That's right.
I.
Yeah.
I can't even look.
I'm just not that guy.
Like, I'm the guy that'll sitin a trailer with a remote control
in my hand flying a freaking drone.
Like, that's my kind of war.
(21:56):
If I gotta do it, that's how Iwant it to be.
It.
Yeah.
I just can't.
And.
And I think that's where someof my obsession with, like, war movies
and, like, war stories.
Like, when I.
I used to ask my grandpa, andhe didn't talk too much.
He was in the Korean War.
He didn't talk a lot, but Icould get him to tell me some stories.
Very little about any kind ofbattle until I was a little older.
(22:18):
But it.
I'm infatuated with hearingthat because I can't grasp that mentality
of, like, I'm gonna go fightfor other people and stuff.
I'm a freaking narcissistic prick.
I don't.
I don't have that in me.
You know what I mean?
So it's.
So It.
It really does intrigue me,and it's interesting to me when I
(22:40):
go, I.
I see soldiers that are like,this especially.
Or any level of this whereit's like, no, it's my.
You know, I want to defend.
I want to do this.
I'm like, man, you.
You are a better person than me.
J.J.
would just be better as anassassin and not part of a unit.
The psyche battle.
Same thing with that.
Lame.
Like, yeah.
(23:01):
Like, we can.
We can keep you, but we'regonna send you on special assignments
by yourself, because with people.
Yeah.
You ain't gonna help that guy.
Especially without.
They'd be like, no, they just put.
Me as a minesweeper.
That's what they would do.
And just walk out in the field.
Yeah.
Or.
I mean, I think I could be asniper, or I'm just sitting in, like,
(23:21):
a sniper's nest, laying there,taking people out.
You know what I mean?
Like, but that's.
Except you'd have Cheeto fingers.
Jane, you'd slip on thetrigger, though.
That's fair.
That's fair.
It's very true.
It's very true.
Yeah, I.
I couldn't.
It's just I'm not.
And I certainly couldn't belike an infantryman.
Like, I couldn't be frontlines freaking charging in like that.
(23:44):
I.
I'd be the dude.
I'd be like, well, he's funny,but we don't want his ass next to
us when we go.
I'm the epitome of, like, if abear's chasing me and a buddy, you
better hope you can run fasterthan me.
Or.
Or you miss me tripping yourass because.
I'm not even gonna tell youthere's a bear.
(24:05):
I'm just gon.
Wrong with Alec.
Oh, we've had thatconversation before.
What was some.
I don't even remember.
It was a long time ago.
I want to go back and listento the episode where we.
One of the earlier episodes,Matson and especially Javier and
even Ian were all like, butt hurt.
(24:26):
Because I was like, no, Iwouldn't save your asses.
Oh.
Yeah.
I love you guys, but not so much.
Nope.
I like, between me and someoneelse, I am picking me every single
time.
(24:47):
Yeah.
Absolutely hilarious.
Oh, man.
Yeah.
This movie is really, reallyinteresting to me, and I think it
tells a really good story thatI didn't know even existed before
this movie.
And so these are the kinds ofmovies that, like, in stories that
I'm glad get told, you knowwhat I mean?
Because they're things that Iwould have never even known about.
(25:08):
Oh, yeah.
When I hadn't decided to do it.
I know, but you see a sign,you're like, how is this not like
how people not talking about this.
But there's.
I mean, there's enough ofthese things that they get lost in
translation.
But, like, thank goodness, you know?
Yeah, well, that.
And Desmond Doss didn't sayanything for like 50 years.
Yeah.
He just went back to thebackwoods of Virginia.
(25:31):
That's what I'd have done, too.
And chilled.
Well, I don't know.
Like, for me, it's like,surprising that more of the people
that he saved didn't talkabout it.
You know what I mean?
Like, that's the.
And maybe it's a respect thingbecause they understood who Doss
was and kind of like, what hewanted from life and things like
that.
So it wasn't a matter of we're gonna.
(25:52):
It had to be.
It had to be that it couldhave been the only thing, because
otherwise you Know peoplelike, he's a legend.
Yeah.
He didn't.
He didn't kill 75 people.
But as you come to see,understand these things more.
Saving a life is just as goodas taking a life.
And had to be something likethat, because otherwise, how were
they not writing more books?
(26:12):
How there's not more news article.
Yeah, it had to be.
Yeah, that's, like, to me, theonly explanation that.
And I mean, well, that inWorld War II, like, it's not like
everybody had a phone that,you know.
Well, yeah, but like.
But still, like, you stillwould have read about this, like,
in newspapers and things.
Like, I think they.
He must.
I feel like he probably justtold him, like, look, like, just
(26:34):
keep it quiet.
Yeah, no, I'm sure.
Yeah.
I don't think.
Obviously, he's not a guythat's gonna want the fame, right?
Like, he was doing this foraltruistic reasons.
Like, I think that's theargument that you watch in the movie,
right?
Where he's like, no, I want toserve just like everyone else.
I don't want out of this.
I just want to do it on my ownterms and in my own way.
(26:57):
And so, like, being able to dothat, then.
And to his credit, like, italso creates a controversial thing.
Like, people are going to comehome and go, great, he saved a bunch
of people, but still otherpeople follow suit, right?
And not everyone's gonna be aDesmond Doss, right?
Like, not everyone's gonna becapable of having that level of courage
(27:22):
and.
And restraint andunderstanding and, like.
Because, I mean, that's theother piece.
Like, I think about myself,too, and I'm like, I'm gonna put
my feet in the sand, right?
And I'm gonna be like, this is.
I'm doing this.
And then someone starts pew,pewing at my ass and, nope, give
me that.
(27:42):
You know what I mean?
Like, all of a sudden, I'm notso strong in my will and beliefs
here.
So, like, yeah, you know what?
Maybe a gun isn't such a bad thing.
Give me.
Did you bring an extra?
Because otherwise I'm gonnatrip your ass and take it, because
I don't want to be without it anymore.
Yeah, it just.
(28:02):
It's so interesting to me.
And I think that's, like, themost impressive part.
Like, he, of course, savingpeople, but we hear about those that
did carry weapons that saved alot of people in wars and situations.
So necessarily, saving people,while that's very awesome and it's
amazing, I think the thingthat really stands out to me and
is Even more awesome aboutDesmond Doss is the fact that not
(28:26):
only did he stick to hisprinciples and the things that drove
him and the reasoning behindwhy he wanted to do what he wanted
to do and the way he wanted todo it, but he.
He followed through on it.
Right.
It wasn't like he caved.
It wasn't.
To me, that's almost morebrave than, say, I think any of the
soldiers that felt they werecapable would have tried to save
people.
Right.
In those situations, at leastmost of the soldiers, I think, would
(28:48):
try.
Maybe not to that extent, but,like, the fact that he still stood
stuck, stood by what hisvalues were and what he decided he
wanted to do, like, that takesa heap of bravery, I think, more
than even a lot of other.
Oh, yeah.
He literally.
It's like the angel thing of,like, the would you still believe
(29:09):
in God if you had a gun toyour head?
Type thing, you or whatever,you put yourself in another scenario.
He essentially did, and hedidn't back down.
And I think it's real easy tosit here in a chair and say, oh,
like, that would have been me.
I think if anyone's reallytrue, he's.
He's the.
The 1% of 1%.
(29:30):
Everybody's changing whatthey're doing, their tactic in.
In the face of danger like that.
I don't care who you are.
I don't know anyone that wouldn't.
I'm sure I.
If I had a gun, my head, andthey asked me if I believe in God,
like, man, I sure, like this,think I would say yes.
And I think about my family,like, well, if I lie here and I believe
(29:52):
in God, like, he's gonna sayit's okay and.
Or, like, I don't know, it'sjust like, stuff like that.
But this dude, I'm sure hewould have been.
He would.
He would have died.
I.
I have no doubts about that.
He would.
Like.
I do.
He gone.
Because what he did there upon that ridge.
Hondo P.
He's saying he's.
He's.
He's gone.
I don't know anybody like that.
(30:13):
Yeah, I don't either.
Not me.
It ain't me.
I ain't that dude.
Like, I'm more altruistic thanboth of my co hosts, but I ain't
that dude either.
Not even close.
I'm not that dude.
I.
Nope.
All right, should we rate this thing?
Let's do it.
All right, Matson, your moviekicks off.
(30:34):
I'm gonna give this movie afour and a half.
I think the.
The Only reason it's not afive for me is just the.
The beginning.
Like, I.
Mel Gibson made this choicefor it to be PG13, to appeal more
to the Christian crowd, to getmore people to see it.
And I understand why.
I think that's great.
But I think he.
He would have preferred it tobe R.
And I think he would like thescenes with Vince Vaughn being the
(30:56):
drill sergeant and, like, the.
More the PG love story.
Not that I needed to have,like, sex on screen, but, like, just
more of the same type of moviefrom start to finish.
Would have been a little bitmore cohesive.
This movie is just a littlebit of a slower burn, but like we
talked about, you need it.
I just think it detracts fromit a little bit.
Well, once you get into themeat of this movie, especially the
(31:17):
end, like, what an incrediblepayoff this is, will be a movie I
will watch again.
I've seen this movie a few times.
Always happy that I do.
What incredible story.
If you have not seen thismovie, just watch it.
Like, great story, inspiring.
So much different than lastweek's movie.
Like, this movie makes youfeel good and ask yourself, like,
(31:38):
can I do more in my life?
And great movie.
Go watch Alec.
I have never asked if I coulddo more in my life, but, yeah, I'm
gonna be right there with Matson.
Four and a half.
And what docks it for me isMel Gibson taking the story, and
(31:58):
instead of making it seemlarger than life, he actually brought
it back and he changed thestory to make it more believable
and realistic for people.
It's like, dude, you had theopportunity with a story that's larger
than life.
Nobody's gonna believe it, andit's all true.
And instead you decided, hey,I'm gonna reel it in a little bit
(32:19):
like that.
That bugs me a lot because itleaves the door open of what this
could have been to actuallyshow a more historically accurate
version of what Desmond Doss did.
But aside from that, like Italked about right off the bat, Mel
Gibson can make a good movie,a really good movie.
He just should not be allowedanywhere near history.
(32:39):
But, yeah, four and a half for me.
I will watch this again.
I always love to sit down andwatch it.
The slow burn, it doesn'treally bother me so much because
it kind of follows a story anda progression.
I'm all about that.
So I will be watching this again.
100.
Yeah, I think I'm gonna beright there with you guys.
Four and a half.
Like, I want to give it afive, but for Me, like there are
(33:00):
some places where it feels.
There are pieces of the storythat feel forced.
And I think that may come fromwhat you're talking about, Alec,
where like feels understatedin a lot of areas and where it, to
me, it should feel bigger andmore pronounced.
And so I'm like, that's just.
(33:21):
It feels weird.
Like there are scenes that I'mlike, this just doesn't fit.
And then when you get to theend, you're like, that really doesn't
fit.
Like, yeah, it almost likewaters him down to a certain degree
all the way through the movieand then you get this big payoff
and I'm like, I, I would haveloved to have seen the obstinate
version of Desmond Doss frombeginning to end versus just this
(33:43):
like always too kind, alwaysjust very soft spoken.
He, like, if you've readanything about him post watching
this movie, he was.
But he wasn't like, he wasalso very outspoken and he was very.
It wasn't just, I'll speak outwhen I need to.
It was.
He was very vocal, very loudabout the fact that this is my right
and he was argumentative about it.
(34:04):
And I want to do this.
So I don't like that they,that he made him almost small and
then made him larger than lifeat the end.
Like, I get why they did it.
And I think, like I said, I'mnot criticizing the movie itself,
but I am.
I, I don't think it would havebeen a worse movie.
I think, I think it would havebeen as.
Just as good, if not better ifthey had like full on made this guy
(34:28):
like who he was from start to finish.
And anyway, so I'm with you.
Like, I think it just felt.
There were moments that itfelt weird.
Overall though, amazing movie.
And like I said, the last 45minutes of this movie is some of
the most awe inspiring on filmin my opinion.
And the way that it's playsout and you see it and you hear it
(34:48):
and you watch it, like I amalways just riveted and what?
And like can't take my eyesoff the screen.
Then I get all like emotionaland like hyped up at the same time
and then like sad.
It's wild.
The roller coaster that is theend of this movie.
And you're.
Especially the first timeshe's like, holy.
Is he gonna take a hit?
Is he gonna.
Yeah.
I mean, it's crazy.
Private Dos is like the Ramboof medics.
(35:09):
Yeah, exactly.
Literally.
Yep.
Yeah, it's crazy and I thinkit's yeah, really good movie.
I will definitely watch it anytime.
I.
I really like it.
I like the performances notjust from Andrew Garfield.
Like, I think there's a lot ofreally, really good acting in this
from Hugo Weaving as Tom Doss.
Like just was really stood outto me as well as like this mirror
(35:33):
image almost of his son, likewhere he's has no real conviction
anymore and he, you know whatI mean?
He's just kind of a broken guyversus Desmond who's just like, he
has everything that he'strying to do and do it right.
So I, I love that.
So, yeah, four and a half for me.
Really, really good film.
(35:54):
Hi, bud.
You kid.
You say J.J.
no, you don't want to say it.
J.J.
yeah.
Can you say Alec?
Hi.
Hey, you got in on it thistime, buddy.
(36:18):
Hey.
Yo.
I was waiting for the.
I was expecting a.
Yeah, he's like, there's foodover there.
Yeah.
All right, Alec.
We'll tell everybody wherethey can find us, man.
Happy too.
Well, this wraps up our monthof war movies as advertised and promised.
There was no other correlationaside from war movies.
(36:38):
However, in picking our topicsand our movies.
I think we both realize, or Ithink we all realize that there's
a ton of options out there formaybe a follow up month of war movies.
So if you want that to happenor even several follow ups, there's
plenty of stuff out there.
So join us on Patreon atwhat's our verted reviews.
(36:58):
Let us know what you want tosee, let us know topics and then
let us know your picks for thetopics that we do pick.
Special thanks to Rich andCharles for setting us on the path
with this war movie month.
Really appreciate it.
But with that, I will kick itback to the Titan of terror, The
Maharaja of Mash.
Good call, Banks.
(37:19):
J.J.
that's right.
Thanks, Alex.
And yeah, we have our honoraryfourth member Banks on the episode
this week.
We like it.
Check him out.
Yeah, we.
It was a good month.
I like this month.
It was very random, very allover the place and yet a lot of good
movies and a lot of interesting.
Takes before we usher in summertime.
(37:41):
That's right.
That's right.
It's crazy.
June is.
Yeah.
All right.
Well anyway, with that, asalways, we appreciate you tuning
in.
We'll catch you on the next one.
Hasta la vista, baby.
Cinematic.
Right.
So I think Mel Gibson makesphenomenal movies.
I don't think he should beallowed anywhere near anything historical
or not be allowed to make anykind of call on a movie about history,
because he makes very, verygood movies.
But he takes the book and justthrows out the window.
(00:27):
Welcome to the what's up?
Every podcast, we fashionourselves cinematic judge and jury.
My name's J.J.
crowder.
I'm here with my co host, Matzenheider.
Shout out to my boy, Jaden Daniels.
Let's go.
Commanders this year.
Better Red and dead and Alec Burgess.
Commander's never gonna win.
Let's get.
Hey, nfc.
We went to the NFC championship.
(00:48):
We will be back.
We have one time in the last.
What, 50 years because we gotrid of the tyrant Daniel Snyder and
we actually have life again.
Okay, Yeah, I heard all before.
Remember, I grew up in San Diego.
I was a Chargers fan.
It never gets any better, dude.
You just think it does.
We actually have aquarterback, though.
I.
I would get in on thisargument, but I'm a Browns fan, so
(01:11):
it's.
It's.
It's no way to live.
Did I introduce you, Alec?
I think I did, yeah.
You argued that they'll neverwin, so, yeah, there we are.
Look.
What a weird way to start.
But I like it.
We're in week four, the finalweek of our war month.
Month of war movies.
Yeah.
And we're wrapping it up withan interesting one.
(01:33):
We're kicking off with Hacksaw Ridge.
It was released November 4, 2016.
It was written by RobertShinkon, Andrew Knight.
It was directed by Mel Gibson.
Stars Andrew Garfield, SamWorthington, Luke Bracey, Teresa
Palmer, Richard Pyros, JacobWarner, Darcy Bryce, James Lugton,
(01:53):
Kasha Stelmack, Hugo Weaving,Rachel Griffiths, and Tyler Coppin.
It is about.
And there's a whole lot morein this that I.
I'm just done reading names,but yeah, it's about a World War
II American medic, Desmond T.
Doss, serving during theBattle of Okinawa, refuses to kill
people and becomes the firstman in American history to receive
the Medal of Honor withoutfiring a shot.
(02:15):
That's it.
That's an in depth synopsisthere, but, yeah, there's that one.
Matson, this was your pick, right?
This was my pick.
Tell us why, oh, why thismovie came out, I think, in, like,
what you just said.
2016.
Right.
Or roughly around there.
This is one of those moviesthat I remember just hearing, like,
(02:35):
wow, like, have you seenHacksaw Ridge?
Like, you got to go seeHacksaw Ridge at least in my sphere
of influence, this is actuallylike the year before I met J.J.
ironically enough.
And I just remember, like, thebuzz around it.
And I was like, well, seemslike a movie that I would probably
enjoy.
And at the time, I.
(02:56):
I knew who Andrew Garfield was.
I think he had already playedSpider man, right?
At least one once or twice.
And so I liked him.
I.
I thought he was an actorthat, like, I had positive recollection
of.
I didn't know anything aboutthe setting in this movie, but I
like more movies.
So I was like, all right, I'mgonna give it a chance.
I mean, when I rememberwatching it, it was interesting to
(03:18):
me because he's a Seventh Day Adventist.
So, like, the aspects of relplay, his morality, but then getting
thrown into the face thatyou're in the army, you're really
not going to take a shot.
Like, really not going to do it.
But then as he goes throughcamp, it's like, well, if you want
to be a combat vet, I get youcan be a liability because you, you're
not going to take a life.
But, like, shoot, if you're agood one, like, can't that also work?
(03:40):
And I.
It was interesting to see therigidity of the military.
But then you, like, you.
You start watching, like,well, that's how they exactly would
react.
Because this is also audaciousfor this person coming to say, I'm
not going to shoot a freaking rifle.
It's like, just pick up therifle, pass the class.
Maybe you never take another shot.
Like, you don't have to bethis difficult.
But it's two very obstinateorganization and individual meeting
(04:05):
coming together.
And I thought that was reallyinteresting is I come from a faith
that definitely, like, wedon't do stuff on a lot of things
on Sundays.
When he talked about MySabbath is on the Saturday and like,
all that, you're like, oh,like, here we go.
Like, setting the line.
Like, is he going to.
Is he going to give in?
He got beat up.
Is he going to quit?
(04:25):
So that was really interestingto me.
The other thing that was funnyto me is Vince Vaughn in this movie
who, like, I don't think upuntil this movie I'd never seen him
play anything that wasn't acomedic role.
I honestly don't think I'veseen him in anything since.
And sure he has, but I justhaven't seen him.
So it was weird to see him inthat role.
It was like when the guy thatplays Ross and Friends, what's.
(04:50):
I don't know what's his actual name.
Whatever it is.
David Schwimmer.
When he was in Band ofBrothers as the same type of role
as Vince Vaughn, I was like,you got to be freaking kidding me.
They like took.
This is the same type of.
They took someone funny andput him in like a very serious role.
Yeah.
And it's not like he.
I just remember seeing thatwas like, oh, this is weird.
I never thought that.
(05:10):
And then the actual subjectmatter of the movie, once they get
to Hacksaw Ridge, that's whereI think this movie actually shines.
I think some of the lead up tothis movie.
Yeah, it's kind of lukewarmfor me.
It's.
It's a little bit of a slow.
Like it is a slow burn.
I.
I have to admit, like I.
The thing with his.
(05:32):
The girl that he ends upmarrying and like they're in the
family dynamic.
Like, I don't know, like itdidn't hit home for me as much.
But once you got to the actuallike war scenes and like putting
his morality to.
To the test and actuallyseeing what he did, incredible.
I thought they depicted whatactually happened there.
I thought it was captivating,interesting and just incredible.
(05:56):
Like that's really what he did.
My God.
Like, damn.
Like amazing.
Wow.
Like I thought that was awesome.
I just think leading up to itto me left a.
Definitely some to be desired.
I'm happy I watched it.
I think it was interesting.
Definitely incredible story.
I'm glad that they told itdifferent type of war movie though
(06:19):
because it, it showed the.
The goriness and grittiness of war.
But from a lens of.
This is a person that didn't fight.
But here's what he did.
So there's a long winded wayto say Startup is a different type
of war movie and I wanted tothrow it out there.
Yeah.
What about you, Alec?
Had you seen this before or isthis a.
No, I'd seen it before.
It's.
(06:39):
It's a.
It's another tricky onebecause Mel Gibson.
Right.
So I think Mel Gibson makesphenomenal movies.
I don't think he should beallowed anywhere near anything historical
or not be allowed to make anykind of call on a movie about history.
Because he makes very, verygood movies.
(07:01):
But he takes the book and justkind of throws out the window and
the like the annoying part forme, right, is that he went around
and he would say like, ohyeah, we toned down this movie from
the heroics.
Which is usually the reverse.
Right.
Usually you take something,you kind of build out promotional
Hollywood he's like, no, thisguy was so cool, we had to make it
worse for tv.
(07:21):
So over movie.
So be believable.
And it's like, why?
Yeah, all right, first of all, why?
And then similar to Matt's andVince Vaughn throws me for a loop.
He has a phenomenal jobplaying the character, but the entire
time it feels wrong.
And you get to the point likein basic, right, where you kind of
(07:42):
first get introduced to himand he's just going up and down the
line a little bit reminiscentof Full Metal Jacket and you know,
Private Idiot and kind ofThere's a knife in my foot and all
that.
That funny stuff that's veryVince Vaughn, but it's at odds with
almost the entire rest of the character.
And he's trying almost to playit this serious way.
(08:03):
And so that throws me for a loop.
But the movie is phenomenal.
I love this movie and I thinkit's a.
A very good one to watch.
But I don't think Mel Gibsonshould be allowed to direct historical
movies in any way, shape or form.
It's funny.
I just think Mel Gibsonshouldn't be able to.
Allowed to speak in public.
(08:23):
Like, that's.
That guy can't.
Because I.
I'm with you.
Like, I think he's aphenomenal movie maker and actor,
but when he says thingsoutside of being scripted, just stop,
stop.
No.
Yeah.
Look, I.
This was, I was, I was veryhappy that this made the list because
(08:44):
like, this was a sleeper for me.
I like war movies, but I'mvery careful with them because I
think sometimes they get madetoo often.
At least they used to.
It's been a while since I'veseen a strong war movie.
But I also tend to like, I'mvery skeptical going in because like
(09:04):
focusing on one person in awar, I'm like, that's kind of crazy.
But I will say this is one ofthose movies.
And matted to your point,like, it's kind of a slow burn for
a while.
Like, you're like, man,there's a lot of like lead up to
this movie and build up.
But I think what this moviedoes very well is like the payoff
it make like if you didn't have.
(09:28):
Look, I've gone back and I'vewatched YouTube for like videos of
like the.
And the last of him pullingeverybody out, right?
And it gets you, but it getsme because I've seen the rest of
it already, right?
And I think like that's one ofthose things where this movie as
good as the end is whether youwatch the rest of it or not.
Like, if you watch his.
His achievements during thisbattle on Hacksaw Ridge, it will
(09:53):
get you, like, motivated and,you know, like, you're like, wow,
this is insane.
And look at what this guy's doing.
But if you watch the wholemovie, it's even better because you
see that one.
The struggle that he goesthrough to be able to still be a
soldier and yet havepermission to not carry a rifle.
(10:18):
It's a lot.
And all of these people,there's very few, if any, that are
actually supportive of him,like, even to the point of his dad,
like, being an absolute dick.
Right?
Like, so it's like, nobody'ssupportive of what he's trying to
do.
And yet it's all these peoplethat aren't supportive that he's
pulling off this mountain atthe end.
So it's like watching thathappen to me is like.
(10:40):
I was like, man, this isslower than dog.
The first time I watch him inthe theater going, this is slow.
When are we gonna see some war?
And then I went, holy.
Without that, this would.
Would have been great, butit's unreal.
Good.
Yeah, it's because thosescenes, him getting beaten up, the
struggle with the.
(11:00):
His commander.
Gosh, why am I forgetting that?
Sam Worthington.
I don't know.
His.
Yeah, his.
His commander.
What's his name?
Captain Glover.
Then there's Smitty Stars andhow, like, Alton and some of the
other people that are part ofthe company that the names don't
remember as much.
(11:20):
Like, you can see thedisrespect they had for him.
And they did a really good jobbuilding that, showing that.
And even when they got there,like, they're still just like, yeah,
I don't know.
And then he starts to do whathe does, and you can just see, like,
in their eyes, like, wow.
Like, dosses.
The.
And then the scene where they're.
This.
The day they go back, they'rewaiting for him to pray.
(11:44):
And who knows if that actuallyhappened or not.
Whether it did or didn't.
Real life, I'm sure there'ssomething similar to that.
And you knew, like, you'relike, they all believe in this dude
because they think he's awalking miracle.
And clearly.
What.
What miracle?
Karma.
You would got the luck of10,000 rabbit feet.
I don't care what you believein that point, you wanted that dude
(12:05):
on your side, and it all paidoff because of the way that they
showed.
I think what didn't land forme as much was more like the.
The PG romance with Dorothythat I just.
Yeah.
Like, I don't know.
Like, I get why she was a partof including very important to his
identity and his motivation,but the way that they portrayed it,
I.
(12:26):
That part just didn't have asmuch of the payoff for me.
But the rest of it, you needed it.
Because without understandinghis struggle and the way that he
went through it, like JJ said,like, it still would have been.
I mean, still riveting onscreen, but it wouldn't have landed
in the emotional way that itdid because he.
He went above and beyond thecall of duty for people that didn't
(12:47):
want anything to do with him.
And he did it because he justknew that was his duty.
And also just the sheer.
Like, you're doing all that,and you've got these soldiers on
the other side that willliterally just kill you and themselves
at the same time.
And you're just runningamongst the clouds and the smoke
and making it happen.
(13:08):
Like, I love the scenes in the.
The.
The tunnels, because that'show the Japanese survived a lot more,
because they built thoseintricate tunnels.
Amazing.
Like, he could have died so many.
I mean, they showed.
I'm sure if you.
You interviewed him, I'm surehe probably could have died, like,
20 times, who knows how many times.
And I'm glad they showed someof that because I'm sure he came
(13:28):
close to death multiple times.
Oh, for sure.
For sure.
Yeah.
And I think this is another movie.
We've had a few of them thismonth where, like, the cast is unreal.
And so, like, the acting is good.
And to your point, like, it'sweird seeing Vince Vaughn.
I will say that he was in an.
He was in a season of TrueDetective where he was, like, a bad
(13:50):
guy kind of thing.
And that was even weirder to get.
I don't think he was bad, though.
No, he was phenomenal in it.
Like, it just was odd.
Like, it doesn't.
It's like watching.
It's like watching a footballplayer play basketball.
It just doesn't feel right.
But at the same time, itdoesn't mean that they're bad at
basketball.
They're probably really goodat it.
And he's.
(14:10):
Yeah.
So he acts.
And, like, one of my favoriteparts is at the end when he's saving.
When.
When Doss is saving him, andhe's like, give me your rifle.
He's like, it's a little latenow, don't you think?
Like, I love that line, to me,is one of fast.
And then he looks at him funnyand rolls it up in the.
In the blanket and tells himto get on.
I wanted that blanket scene.
(14:30):
I, like, I'm sure it wasn'treal, but damn, I was like, man,
I wanted that to be like ahundred percent real because that
looked cool.
I was like, whoever came upwith that, way to go.
That was cool.
Yeah, yeah.
Or he's like, dragging his assand shooting.
Yeah, that was cool.
The whole, like, the wholething is just wild.
And then, you know, there'sthese moments, like, where you can
tell, like, this dude has tobe unbelievably exhausted because,
(14:53):
like, it's not a little waysthat he's traveling, carrying these
guys, dragging these guys.
You got to worry about beingquiet and getting in a fight and
like.
Or getting, you know, all thatstuff, like, and then tying them
up and then, like, holding the road.
Like, his hands had to havebeen just pure.
How many calories did he burn?
That's what I want to know.
It's going crazy.
(15:13):
Like, 110 pounds soaking wet.
Yeah.
He wasn't a big guy.
No, it was not a big dude.
Like, human.
And they weren't dead, buthuman beings that are, like, basically
dead weight.
Like, it's a rough life.
Yeah.
To move them.
Yeah, that's.
It's nuts.
And I, you know, and I.
Look, Andrew, what's.
(15:34):
What's Garfield?
Garfield does an outrageouslygood job in this role.
And I think the scene for me,like, when he's all done and he jumps
off the rope at the end and he.
With the other dude, and,like, the guys come out and try to
grab him, and he, like, loseshis, like.
I like, to me, that moment isso poignant because you're like,
yeah, dude, these got to be horrified.
Like, the amount of, like, onedge and, like, in fear all the time.
(15:59):
He was.
For however many hours he wasup on that mountain dragging people
off, like, good Lord, I can'teven imagine.
And then what's even morebatshit is, like, two days later,
a day late, whatever it is, hegoes back up.
You know what I mean?
And it's like, geez, what the hell?
So, you know, it's.
It's interesting where the.
(16:21):
The juxtaposition, if youwill, of the two movies that we've
reviewed the last two weeks,like, you have the Deer Hunter, which
is like, there's no heroism.
I mean, there is, right?
There's the moment of Mikesaving everybody and, like, they
jailbreak.
But, like, there's no feelgood about that because even though
they escape like, it's notlike they escaped anything good here.
(16:42):
Like, it's almost the exact opposite.
You're watching something verysimilar where it's this escape and
he's saving people, butyou're, like, full of this, like,
motivation, and you're like,yeah, like, rooting for, you know,
so it's.
It's wild how you can take twovery desperate situations that are
very similar in.
In what's happening in thesituation that they're in, and yet
(17:03):
two very different aspects ofit and very different viewpoints.
And so I really enjoy this onebecause you come away going.
And let's be honest, thismovie doesn't end very well either.
Like, because he goes back upand gets half blown away.
So it's just like, what the.
But at the same time, like,you just.
(17:23):
The understanding of why he'sdoing what he's doing is just epic
to me.
Like, that's why, like,there's, like, I get all sorts of,
like, amped up when I watchthis movie.
And, like, even as.
As hard and sad as it is,like, you can't help but just have
that reverence for whatever heactually did, whether it was accurately
portrayed in the movie or not.
(17:44):
Like, if he did that with oneguy, that's the right.
Like.
So anyway, go ahead, Alec.
You look like you're about tosay so.
Oh, no, I was just agreeingwith everything you said.
You can hit the nail on the head.
Gotcha.
I like it.
Yeah, I think, you know, that's.
To me, one of the craziestpieces of this movie is, like, just
(18:06):
the fact that you're watchingsomething that even if they make
it outlandish compared to thereal story, like, the.
The fact that it's rooted insome level of truth.
Like, I want to know moreabout this guy and, like, his motivations
and what happened to him after.
And, like, like, all thatstuff to me is just wild because
I would not be this dude.
(18:28):
You know what I mean?
I'd be the dude.
Like, I'd be giving this dude hell.
Like, what the are you doing?
I don't want to fight with youif you don't got a gun.
Like, get the out of here with that.
Like, I'd be pissed.
Oh, we all would.
It's so easy to think, oh,you'd be the person they understand.
I, like, I'm a nice humanbeing, but I'm sure I'd have been
a dick, too.
I know you two would have been that.
Yeah, absolutely, dude.
(18:49):
You know how.
How problematic that dude is,like, from A leadership standpoint.
Oh, like at the squad level,like, I got Desmond Dosso.
Yeah.
Like, just the.
The hoops you'd have to jumpthrough from a leadership standpoint,
trying to figure out what todo with this guy.
(19:09):
Just would not be.
Yeah.
Alec froze.
I love it when Alec freezes.
He's back.
Yeah, I froze.
I was done.
Anyway.
That's funny.
No, I.
Yeah.
And I think about it fromlike, a guy.
If you're in the trenches withthis dude and you got a gun and people
are shooting at you and he'slaying there, I'd be like, listen,
(19:30):
I'm just gonna go ahead andshoot you so I don't have to feel
like I gotta take care of your ass.
Right.
Like, I.
To me, like, I can't imagine.
Not to mention your ownpersonal mentality of, I'm gonna
go to war without a weapon.
The.
Out of here with that.
Like, the balls that you needto, like, decide you're gonna do
(19:52):
that.
Like, I can't even fathom.
Like, I.
I talk to my friends who arevets, I watch war movies, and I go,
I wouldn't make it in war in a tank.
You know what I mean?
Let alone, like, out in theopen as an infantryman with a weapon.
And then you say, ah, you know what?
I don't need a weapon.
(20:12):
I'm just gonna go save people.
I don't have that kind of balls.
I don't have that kind of bravery.
Well, the other flip of thecoin of that.
Right.
Is being able to be abattlefield medicine.
Like, that isn't easy either,especially in the Pacific because
Japanese soldiers saw the RedCross and like, oh, target practice.
Yeah.
(20:34):
Like, it's not a fun experience.
You're probably attracted alot more not.
Fun when you're, like.
When he realizes at thebeginning they show it.
He's, like, trying to save everybody.
And then that the.
The guy that's been in commenta lot is like, I'll just give morphine
and move on.
And how many times do theyhave to do.
Probably way too many times.
You're basically justaccepting people are dying all the
time.
Yeah.
(20:55):
Yeah.
For a guy like that, that's.
It's like his worst nightmare.
He doesn't even.
He's just trying to do his duty.
But the dude is.
He's like a little baby rabbit.
Doesn't want to be.
You don't want to be out theredoing that.
Yeah.
He wants to be back withDorothy doing his thing.
Yeah.
Well, and that's the other thing.
Like, you think About a medic.
(21:15):
Not only that, even you takethe patch off.
You're trying to patchsomebody up.
Gunfire going off, bombsexploding grenades going out like
that.
I want to be in a hole with agun, and I'm not even looking.
Just putting the.
You know what I mean?
Like, Jay's just out theredoing a little Pew, pew.
Yeah.
I'm like.
(21:35):
I'm like.
I'm no scoping dude.
I'm just.
JJ's got a Twinkie, and he's just.
That's right.
I.
Yeah.
I can't even look.
I'm just not that guy.
Like, I'm the guy that'll sitin a trailer with a remote control
in my hand flying a freaking drone.
Like, that's my kind of war.
(21:56):
If I gotta do it, that's how Iwant it to be.
It.
Yeah.
I just can't.
And.
And I think that's where someof my obsession with, like, war movies
and, like, war stories.
Like, when I.
I used to ask my grandpa, andhe didn't talk too much.
He was in the Korean War.
He didn't talk a lot, but Icould get him to tell me some stories.
Very little about any kind ofbattle until I was a little older.
(22:18):
But it.
I'm infatuated with hearingthat because I can't grasp that mentality
of, like, I'm gonna go fightfor other people and stuff.
I'm a freaking narcissistic prick.
I don't.
I don't have that in me.
You know what I mean?
So it's.
So It.
It really does intrigue me,and it's interesting to me when I
(22:40):
go, I.
I see soldiers that are like,this especially.
Or any level of this whereit's like, no, it's my.
You know, I want to defend.
I want to do this.
I'm like, man, you.
You are a better person than me.
J.J.
would just be better as anassassin and not part of a unit.
The psyche battle.
Same thing with that.
Lame.
Like, yeah.
(23:01):
Like, we can.
We can keep you, but we'regonna send you on special assignments
by yourself, because with people.
Yeah.
You ain't gonna help that guy.
Especially without.
They'd be like, no, they just put.
Me as a minesweeper.
That's what they would do.
And just walk out in the field.
Yeah.
Or.
I mean, I think I could be asniper, or I'm just sitting in, like,
(23:21):
a sniper's nest, laying there,taking people out.
You know what I mean?
Like, but that's.
Except you'd have Cheeto fingers.
Jane, you'd slip on thetrigger, though.
That's fair.
That's fair.
It's very true.
It's very true.
Yeah, I.
I couldn't.
It's just I'm not.
And I certainly couldn't belike an infantryman.
Like, I couldn't be frontlines freaking charging in like that.
(23:44):
I.
I'd be the dude.
I'd be like, well, he's funny,but we don't want his ass next to
us when we go.
I'm the epitome of, like, if abear's chasing me and a buddy, you
better hope you can run fasterthan me.
Or.
Or you miss me tripping yourass because.
I'm not even gonna tell youthere's a bear.
(24:05):
I'm just gon.
Wrong with Alec.
Oh, we've had thatconversation before.
What was some.
I don't even remember.
It was a long time ago.
I want to go back and listento the episode where we.
One of the earlier episodes,Matson and especially Javier and
even Ian were all like, butt hurt.
(24:26):
Because I was like, no, Iwouldn't save your asses.
Oh.
Yeah.
I love you guys, but not so much.
Nope.
I like, between me and someoneelse, I am picking me every single
time.
(24:47):
Yeah.
Absolutely hilarious.
Oh, man.
Yeah.
This movie is really, reallyinteresting to me, and I think it
tells a really good story thatI didn't know even existed before
this movie.
And so these are the kinds ofmovies that, like, in stories that
I'm glad get told, you knowwhat I mean?
Because they're things that Iwould have never even known about.
(25:08):
Oh, yeah.
When I hadn't decided to do it.
I know, but you see a sign,you're like, how is this not like
how people not talking about this.
But there's.
I mean, there's enough ofthese things that they get lost in
translation.
But, like, thank goodness, you know?
Yeah, well, that.
And Desmond Doss didn't sayanything for like 50 years.
Yeah.
He just went back to thebackwoods of Virginia.
(25:31):
That's what I'd have done, too.
And chilled.
Well, I don't know.
Like, for me, it's like,surprising that more of the people
that he saved didn't talkabout it.
You know what I mean?
Like, that's the.
And maybe it's a respect thingbecause they understood who Doss
was and kind of like, what hewanted from life and things like
that.
So it wasn't a matter of we're gonna.
(25:52):
It had to be.
It had to be that it couldhave been the only thing, because
otherwise you Know peoplelike, he's a legend.
Yeah.
He didn't.
He didn't kill 75 people.
But as you come to see,understand these things more.
Saving a life is just as goodas taking a life.
And had to be something likethat, because otherwise, how were
they not writing more books?
(26:12):
How there's not more news article.
Yeah, it had to be.
Yeah, that's, like, to me, theonly explanation that.
And I mean, well, that inWorld War II, like, it's not like
everybody had a phone that,you know.
Well, yeah, but like.
But still, like, you stillwould have read about this, like,
in newspapers and things.
Like, I think they.
He must.
I feel like he probably justtold him, like, look, like, just
(26:34):
keep it quiet.
Yeah, no, I'm sure.
Yeah.
I don't think.
Obviously, he's not a guythat's gonna want the fame, right?
Like, he was doing this foraltruistic reasons.
Like, I think that's theargument that you watch in the movie,
right?
Where he's like, no, I want toserve just like everyone else.
I don't want out of this.
I just want to do it on my ownterms and in my own way.
(26:57):
And so, like, being able to dothat, then.
And to his credit, like, italso creates a controversial thing.
Like, people are going to comehome and go, great, he saved a bunch
of people, but still otherpeople follow suit, right?
And not everyone's gonna be aDesmond Doss, right?
Like, not everyone's gonna becapable of having that level of courage
(27:22):
and.
And restraint andunderstanding and, like.
Because, I mean, that's theother piece.
Like, I think about myself,too, and I'm like, I'm gonna put
my feet in the sand, right?
And I'm gonna be like, this is.
I'm doing this.
And then someone starts pew,pewing at my ass and, nope, give
me that.
(27:42):
You know what I mean?
Like, all of a sudden, I'm notso strong in my will and beliefs
here.
So, like, yeah, you know what?
Maybe a gun isn't such a bad thing.
Give me.
Did you bring an extra?
Because otherwise I'm gonnatrip your ass and take it, because
I don't want to be without it anymore.
Yeah, it just.
(28:02):
It's so interesting to me.
And I think that's, like, themost impressive part.
Like, he, of course, savingpeople, but we hear about those that
did carry weapons that saved alot of people in wars and situations.
So necessarily, saving people,while that's very awesome and it's
amazing, I think the thingthat really stands out to me and
is Even more awesome aboutDesmond Doss is the fact that not
(28:26):
only did he stick to hisprinciples and the things that drove
him and the reasoning behindwhy he wanted to do what he wanted
to do and the way he wanted todo it, but he.
He followed through on it.
Right.
It wasn't like he caved.
It wasn't.
To me, that's almost morebrave than, say, I think any of the
soldiers that felt they werecapable would have tried to save
people.
Right.
In those situations, at leastmost of the soldiers, I think, would
(28:48):
try.
Maybe not to that extent, but,like, the fact that he still stood
stuck, stood by what hisvalues were and what he decided he
wanted to do, like, that takesa heap of bravery, I think, more
than even a lot of other.
Oh, yeah.
He literally.
It's like the angel thing of,like, the would you still believe
(29:09):
in God if you had a gun toyour head?
Type thing, you or whatever,you put yourself in another scenario.
He essentially did, and hedidn't back down.
And I think it's real easy tosit here in a chair and say, oh,
like, that would have been me.
I think if anyone's reallytrue, he's.
He's the.
The 1% of 1%.
(29:30):
Everybody's changing whatthey're doing, their tactic in.
In the face of danger like that.
I don't care who you are.
I don't know anyone that wouldn't.
I'm sure I.
If I had a gun, my head, andthey asked me if I believe in God,
like, man, I sure, like this,think I would say yes.
And I think about my family,like, well, if I lie here and I believe
(29:52):
in God, like, he's gonna sayit's okay and.
Or, like, I don't know, it'sjust like, stuff like that.
But this dude, I'm sure hewould have been.
He would.
He would have died.
I.
I have no doubts about that.
He would.
Like.
I do.
He gone.
Because what he did there upon that ridge.
Hondo P.
He's saying he's.
He's.
He's gone.
I don't know anybody like that.
(30:13):
Yeah, I don't either.
Not me.
It ain't me.
I ain't that dude.
Like, I'm more altruistic thanboth of my co hosts, but I ain't
that dude either.
Not even close.
I'm not that dude.
I.
Nope.
All right, should we rate this thing?
Let's do it.
All right, Matson, your moviekicks off.
(30:34):
I'm gonna give this movie afour and a half.
I think the.
The Only reason it's not afive for me is just the.
The beginning.
Like, I.
Mel Gibson made this choicefor it to be PG13, to appeal more
to the Christian crowd, to getmore people to see it.
And I understand why.
I think that's great.
But I think he.
He would have preferred it tobe R.
And I think he would like thescenes with Vince Vaughn being the
(30:56):
drill sergeant and, like, the.
More the PG love story.
Not that I needed to have,like, sex on screen, but, like, just
more of the same type of moviefrom start to finish.
Would have been a little bitmore cohesive.
This movie is just a littlebit of a slower burn, but like we
talked about, you need it.
I just think it detracts fromit a little bit.
Well, once you get into themeat of this movie, especially the
(31:17):
end, like, what an incrediblepayoff this is, will be a movie I
will watch again.
I've seen this movie a few times.
Always happy that I do.
What incredible story.
If you have not seen thismovie, just watch it.
Like, great story, inspiring.
So much different than lastweek's movie.
Like, this movie makes youfeel good and ask yourself, like,
(31:38):
can I do more in my life?
And great movie.
Go watch Alec.
I have never asked if I coulddo more in my life, but, yeah, I'm
gonna be right there with Matson.
Four and a half.
And what docks it for me isMel Gibson taking the story, and
(31:58):
instead of making it seemlarger than life, he actually brought
it back and he changed thestory to make it more believable
and realistic for people.
It's like, dude, you had theopportunity with a story that's larger
than life.
Nobody's gonna believe it, andit's all true.
And instead you decided, hey,I'm gonna reel it in a little bit
(32:19):
like that.
That bugs me a lot because itleaves the door open of what this
could have been to actuallyshow a more historically accurate
version of what Desmond Doss did.
But aside from that, like Italked about right off the bat, Mel
Gibson can make a good movie,a really good movie.
He just should not be allowedanywhere near history.
(32:39):
But, yeah, four and a half for me.
I will watch this again.
I always love to sit down andwatch it.
The slow burn, it doesn'treally bother me so much because
it kind of follows a story anda progression.
I'm all about that.
So I will be watching this again.
100.
Yeah, I think I'm gonna beright there with you guys.
Four and a half.
Like, I want to give it afive, but for Me, like there are
(33:00):
some places where it feels.
There are pieces of the storythat feel forced.
And I think that may come fromwhat you're talking about, Alec,
where like feels understatedin a lot of areas and where it, to
me, it should feel bigger andmore pronounced.
And so I'm like, that's just.
(33:21):
It feels weird.
Like there are scenes that I'mlike, this just doesn't fit.
And then when you get to theend, you're like, that really doesn't
fit.
Like, yeah, it almost likewaters him down to a certain degree
all the way through the movieand then you get this big payoff
and I'm like, I, I would haveloved to have seen the obstinate
version of Desmond Doss frombeginning to end versus just this
(33:43):
like always too kind, alwaysjust very soft spoken.
He, like, if you've readanything about him post watching
this movie, he was.
But he wasn't like, he wasalso very outspoken and he was very.
It wasn't just, I'll speak outwhen I need to.
It was.
He was very vocal, very loudabout the fact that this is my right
and he was argumentative about it.
(34:04):
And I want to do this.
So I don't like that they,that he made him almost small and
then made him larger than lifeat the end.
Like, I get why they did it.
And I think, like I said, I'mnot criticizing the movie itself,
but I am.
I, I don't think it would havebeen a worse movie.
I think, I think it would havebeen as.
Just as good, if not better ifthey had like full on made this guy
(34:28):
like who he was from start to finish.
And anyway, so I'm with you.
Like, I think it just felt.
There were moments that itfelt weird.
Overall though, amazing movie.
And like I said, the last 45minutes of this movie is some of
the most awe inspiring on filmin my opinion.
And the way that it's playsout and you see it and you hear it
(34:48):
and you watch it, like I amalways just riveted and what?
And like can't take my eyesoff the screen.
Then I get all like emotionaland like hyped up at the same time
and then like sad.
It's wild.
The roller coaster that is theend of this movie.
And you're.
Especially the first timeshe's like, holy.
Is he gonna take a hit?
Is he gonna.
Yeah.
I mean, it's crazy.
Private Dos is like the Ramboof medics.
(35:09):
Yeah, exactly.
Literally.
Yep.
Yeah, it's crazy and I thinkit's yeah, really good movie.
I will definitely watch it anytime.
I.
I really like it.
I like the performances notjust from Andrew Garfield.
Like, I think there's a lot ofreally, really good acting in this
from Hugo Weaving as Tom Doss.
Like just was really stood outto me as well as like this mirror
(35:33):
image almost of his son, likewhere he's has no real conviction
anymore and he, you know whatI mean?
He's just kind of a broken guyversus Desmond who's just like, he
has everything that he'strying to do and do it right.
So I, I love that.
So, yeah, four and a half for me.
Really, really good film.
(35:54):
Hi, bud.
You kid.
You say J.J.
no, you don't want to say it.
J.J.
yeah.
Can you say Alec?
Hi.
Hey, you got in on it thistime, buddy.
(36:18):
Hey.
Yo.
I was waiting for the.
I was expecting a.
Yeah, he's like, there's foodover there.
Yeah.
All right, Alec.
We'll tell everybody wherethey can find us, man.
Happy too.
Well, this wraps up our monthof war movies as advertised and promised.
There was no other correlationaside from war movies.
(36:38):
However, in picking our topicsand our movies.
I think we both realize, or Ithink we all realize that there's
a ton of options out there formaybe a follow up month of war movies.
So if you want that to happenor even several follow ups, there's
plenty of stuff out there.
So join us on Patreon atwhat's our verted reviews.
(36:58):
Let us know what you want tosee, let us know topics and then
let us know your picks for thetopics that we do pick.
Special thanks to Rich andCharles for setting us on the path
with this war movie month.
Really appreciate it.
But with that, I will kick itback to the Titan of terror, The
Maharaja of Mash.
Good call, Banks.
(37:19):
J.J.
that's right.
Thanks, Alex.
And yeah, we have our honoraryfourth member Banks on the episode
this week.
We like it.
Check him out.
Yeah, we.
It was a good month.
I like this month.
It was very random, very allover the place and yet a lot of good
movies and a lot of interesting.
Takes before we usher in summertime.
(37:41):
That's right.
That's right.
It's crazy.
June is.
Yeah.
All right.
Well anyway, with that, asalways, we appreciate you tuning
in.
We'll catch you on the next one.
Hasta la vista, baby.
Cinematic.
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