September 15, 2025 • 37 mins
The focal point of this podcast episode is a profound analysis of the cinematic masterpiece "Legends of the Fall," released in 1995 and featuring notable performances by Brad Pitt and Anthony Hopkins. We delve into the intricate narrative that intertwines themes of love, loss, and the haunting specter of war, as it explores the tumultuous relationship among three brothers and their father in the rugged wilderness of Montana. Throughout our discourse, we examine the film's pacing, its emotional depth, and the performances that elevate it to a poignant exploration of the human condition. The dialogue reflects on the characters' flawed choices and the resultant consequences, ultimately leading to a rich tapestry of storytelling that resonates with viewers long after the credits roll. Join us as we dissect the layers of this compelling narrative, revealing the complexities that define not only the film but also the lives of its characters.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
It's a weird side story, butthat works.
We're gonna educate ouraudience on sexual education here.
Except our audience.
Nobody should come to us forsex ed.
Definitely not.
No.
Let me just chalk that up to atopic we never expected to talk about
on this podcast.
You know that that's what I'mhere for.
(00:28):
Welcome to the what's UpVerdict podcast, where we fashion
ourselves cinematic Jud and Jerry.
My name is J.J. crowder.
I'm here with my co hosts, Matson.
Heiner, Better Red Than Dead,and Alec Burgess.
Let's get it.
We appreciate you tuning in.
Go ahead, hit that.
Follow, subscribe.
Like bell notification buttons.
Hit all those buttons.
I hope you keep up with our episodes.
Help support the podcast, helpit grow.
(00:50):
Also helping it grow will betelling your friends and family members
about us.
Tell some ranchers about us.
Maybe we're okay with any kindof rancher.
Doesn't just have to be cattleranchers, but maybe not PTSD driven
sons of ranchers.
That would be good.
But, yeah, we're here.
Week two, Week two.
(01:11):
That's crazy to even thinkabout, right?
Is week two, or is this week one?
This is week two?
Week two.
Yeah.
Week two.
Week three.
Is it week three?
It's week three.
It is week three.
Yeah.
Because we did Ocean.
Sevens and oceans.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Geez.
See what happens.
I get all twisted up.
(01:32):
Yeah.
It's week three of Brad Pitt'sSeptember, and we're diving deep,
and we are talking aboutLegends of the Fall.
It was released January 13, 1995.
It was written by SusanShilladay and William Wittliffe.
It was directed by Edward Zwick.
(01:52):
It stars Brad Pitt, AnthonyHopkins, Aiden Quinn, Julie Ormond,
Henry Thomas, Karina Lombard,Tantu, Cardinal Gordon, two Tusis,
Paul Desmond, ChristinaPickles, Robert Wisden, and John
Novak.
It is about.
In the early 1900s, threebrothers and their father living
in the remote wilderness ofMontana are affected by betrayal,
(02:12):
history, love, nature, and war.
Boy, that's quite the synopsis.
Yeah.
This was my movie, so I guessI get to kick this whole deal off.
Yes, sir.
Yeah, look, when I think aboutBrad Pitt movies, and I know we talked
about seven, and there's someothers bangers coming that we talk
(02:33):
about, but this is probablythe first movie that I think of when
someone says Brad Pitt.
It was one of those moviesthat, like, I went to, and I remember
going to it thinking, I don'tknow how I'm gonna feel about this.
Like.
And I went on a date with.
Man, it was a long time ago.
(02:54):
Tell us, Jay, how old were youin 1995?
14.
So I was four.
Yeah, that was two.
Yeah.
It's funny.
Yeah, that's.
That's.
Yeah, we went and saw itbecause everybody's like, ooh, Brad
Pitt's so dreamy.
And of course, Anthony Hopkinsand Aiden Quinn at the time was still.
(03:15):
He was popular enough that itwas quite the draw as far as the
cast went.
And I remember sitting in thatmovie going, this is not gonna be
my kind of movie.
And 10 minutes in, I'm like,man, this is slow as balls.
And then all of a sudden, Iwas like, okay, this movie's wild.
And then it just kept gettingwilder and wilder.
And then I just kind of fellin love with it.
(03:37):
And it's one of those moviesthat I can go back to anytime.
So when Brad Pitt's name gotthrown out as one of our list and
it got voted for, I was like,oh, yeah, Legends of the Falls ending
up on this list because it's.
Yeah, it's, to me, one of thebetter movies that has Brad Pitt
in it.
If not, like, probably on mylist, probably could be the best
(03:58):
that I consider with Brad Pittin it.
So maybe not Brad Pitt's best,like, overall movie, if you're just
talking Brad Pitt in general,but movies that have Brad Pitt in
it, that.
I think it's up there for me,really, really high.
Yeah, I just really like it.
And we'll.
I'm sure we'll talk more aboutwhy, but, yeah, that's, that's why
it's on this list, becausethis one really sticks out for me.
(04:19):
Had you guys seen this one before?
I had not.
There's a character called theOne Stab.
Of course, I was gonna say, I,I figured Alad.
But what's funny, I, I, I knewwhat this.
I mean, I'd seen the COVID ofthis movie many times.
One of my.
I have a movie playlist that I sometimes.
Well, more than sometimes.
I listen to quite a bit whenI'm trying to focus.
(04:41):
And the main theme song fromthis movie is on there.
Incredible.
I mean, you talk about one of the.
Probably the best.
I mean, I hear the song allthe time.
I've always known, okay, thisis the movie it came from.
I just never had gotten aroundto watching it.
But incredible song.
And so definitely hit somevibes for me when that came on.
(05:03):
It's slow, I have to have tosay that.
But as we'll talk aboutoutside of it, I think there's much
to be commended.
And, like, I Always say, Ilove a movie that has a realistic
ending.
I mean, this movie definitelydoesn't shy away from how things
probably would have been inmore ways than one.
So I can appreciate it for that.
(05:24):
But I think that certainly thepace is like at times, but kind of
how life moved back then too.
So it's probably true to times anyway.
So I don't know if that'sgonna hinder how I completely feel
about it, but.
Yeah, it's a little long, butfirst time watch through.
I mean, I was happy to havewatched it for sure.
Like, I mean, great acting.
(05:46):
I love that time period.
Just, I mean, I'm sure thegirls liked it.
Brad Pitt with longer hair,like, dreamy dude on screen.
Very fair.
I don't know if the sex scenewould have quite looked like that
back in the day.
That felt a littleHollywoodized, but, you know, we
do what we do.
Yeah, 90 sex scenes were veryglamorous and beautiful when.
(06:09):
And I'm pretty sure theyprobably got pregnant potentially,
so that would have made thingsharder back then.
I don't know how they were.
Just every time you had sex,you're like, I think we might have
another person to help us onthe farm.
Maybe, maybe not.
I mean, I'm sure they knewabout the pull out method back then
even.
Yeah.
I mean, you're obviously notthe most secure way to protect yourself,
(06:34):
but danger.
Dangerous game, it's fair.
It's a weird side story, butthat works.
We're gonna educate ouraudience on sexual education here.
Except our audience.
Nobody should come to us for sex.
Definitely not.
No.
(06:55):
Let me just chalk that up to atopic we never expected to talk about
on this podcast.
You know, that's what I'm here for.
I mean, we've talked aboutdolphin sex.
But that's that movie.
That movie invited that, though.
That wasn't completely out ofleft field.
Yeah.
All right.
Alec, when did you first seeLegends of the fall?
(07:16):
Oh, probably 12 or 13.
That's when I first saw it.
And I.
It's one of those.
I don't watch enough.
But they're.
They do a really good job withcertain scenes in this, but those
very same scenes, I almostfeel like they go too far.
Like when Samuel dies.
(07:38):
Right.
Their brother.
I was like, great scene.
Real gut wrencher, butfreaking mustard gas, this dude.
And then lined up a machine gun.
Yeah, it's like, like you.
You could have gotten yourpoint across without needing to go
there, in my opinion.
(08:00):
So it's.
It's a hard one becausethere's just like four or five of
these really big, like, youdidn't have to go there to get your
point across scenes, but youwent there anyway, which makes it
a little bit more of a, notreally a drag, but a tougher watch.
(08:20):
So I, I go a bit in between.
But it's, it's really good storytelling.
I like the storytelling.
This movie does a very goodjob with that.
So it's always one that when Isit down to watch it, I have a good
time, you know, and I enjoythe fact that I sat down and watched
it.
Maybe not have a good timewhile I'm watching it.
But yeah, but yeah, I, I,it's, it's one of those where it's
(08:44):
always a solid watch and I'llsit down and watch it pretty much
anytime, anywhere.
I love this movie.
Yeah, it's a good one.
I like the, the, the timeperiod between when Tristan left
to when he came back.
They obviously don't give anamount of time.
How much time do we feel likeit was?
(09:07):
Couple years?
More than like five years,eight years.
Like.
I mean it had to been a goodlong while because when they were
talking about Isabel too, shewas what they say, 19 when they were,
they got married when he, like13, 12.
Yeah, I was gonna say when heleaves, she was, she couldn't have
(09:28):
been more than 12 or 13.
So it had to have been atleast like six to six to eight years
probably depending six, seven years.
Dude, just up and leave.
Yeah.
Go find yourself.
Yeah.
Go to all the places and justleave that Mrs.
(09:50):
Behind.
Yeah, you do what you do.
Right.
Like I think, and I thinkthat's where like Alec, you mentioned
that the storytelling in thisis crazy and like it's wild and the
whole like obviously you seeearly on, Tristan's no stay at home,
hang out at the ranch kind of guy.
(10:10):
But like you put, you add inthe whole self loathing, like torture,
like ptsd.
Like you add that in and Idon't know how he stood still for
any amount of time.
You know what I mean?
And then every time thingsstarted to feel like they were gonna
turn around, like somehappened to this dude.
(10:31):
And then like you get thatmoment where he's talking to his
dad at the end and startstalking about the fact that he cursed
God and then so he's cursed.
And it's just like you piecetogether like what this dude's been
living with.
Like you, you see it, right?
The major moments, but likethat, that self loathing and like
regret of having not been there.
(10:54):
And then Doing what you thinkcaused all these curses around you.
Like, man, it just.
It's so crazy to think aboutthe damage internally and, like,
emotionally that he had beendoing to himself constantly.
And then you have to alsowonder on the flip side, like, if
(11:15):
he had just sat still, right?
Like, okay, so you can't getpast his brother dying.
That was out of his control atthe end of the day.
But after that, like, he had acouple of moments where he probably
could have just.
I mean, stayed and thencouldn't handle it.
(11:36):
Like, it's just.
Yeah, it's tough.
It's a tough watch.
It's an emotional movie.
I think that's one of thethings that I like the most about
it is, like, it's hard towatch that and not, like, feel some.
One way or another.
You know what I mean?
And everything from, like,sadness to, like, you know, a little
bit of joy for him, but at thesame time, like, anger.
Good Lord.
Like, there's very little moresatisfying than when the dude gets
(11:59):
impaled by the pitchfork inthe freaking bootleg shed after they
killed Isabelle.
Man, that's crazy.
I love that part.
Like, him stalking the dude,and then the dude, the dad, like,
sniping down the other cop inthe middle of nowhere.
Like, yeah, that's.
That's one of those crazy.
All those scenes where Tristangoes nuts.
(12:21):
You're just like, get him.
Like, you do.
That's not the dude that youwant to have pissed off.
Like, did they aim to killIsabelle, or was it a ricochet?
It's a ricochet.
They felt.
Yeah, it was a ricochet, butobviously they didn't quite seem
to care.
Yeah, well, and it's thatthere is that moment, too, like,
(12:43):
when they first realized thatIsabelle was shot and he's losing
it.
Like, you see the look on bigbrother o' Bannon's face, and he's
like, ah, God damn it.
Because it's not gonna end well.
But I think one of the otherthings that gets me is, like, the
relationship between the twoolder brothers with Albert and Tristan
and, like, that level of blameand entire, like, toxic relationship
(13:07):
due to.
I mean, it's.
And they mention it in themovie, Tristan is all in his old.
Andy's old.
This.
That book story.
And, like, obviously, this isa modernized, even more twisted version
of that to a degree, but, man,that's a.
That's a tough one.
And then, like, when he asked,when he comes after the funeral,
(13:28):
he's like, they're gonna comeget you, and you're gonna Go to jail,
even though there's nothinghappening to this cop and whatnot.
Like, man, what a mess.
Just so much going on in thismovie that you have to, like, wade
through.
It's another movie that, like,I'm like, I can't watch this all
the time, but it's such a good movie.
(13:49):
And Anthony Hopkins, goodLord, I love him in this movie so
much.
Like, and this is another onethat, like, I talk a lot about Anthony
Hopkins and how much I.
He's got to be one of myfavorite actors of all time.
But, like, this is one ofthose ones where you see him on all
fronts and, like, all he'strying to do is, like, protect his
family.
And then I love.
Like, I always think of Alecnow whenever he talks about, like,
(14:12):
he hates the government.
Like, when they have thatshout, he's like, the government?
Screw them.
He's half of the bag after hisstroke, and he's flipping them off
barely.
Like, I always think about,screw the government.
Where do you think I got it from?
Yeah, it's gonna be Alec as anold man.
(14:34):
That's right.
That's right.
I like Anthony Hopkins is,too, because it's like they turned
him loose almost, where, youknow, he's.
He typically plays almost likea really uptight but very proper
characters, and on occasion,they'll let him loose.
And this is one where theypretty much let him loose.
(14:56):
He does such a good job.
Oh, yeah.
To really showcase his actingtalent because it's.
It's almost like he's one ofthose people where you can't really
direct him.
You just kind of point himwhere you want him to go, and wherever
he ends up is where your movieneeds to be.
And so I feel like the cuttingthem loose, especially after, you
(15:17):
know, his character has strokeand just crazy old man going.
It's.
It's beautiful.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
And the way he plays that,like, just that impacted stroke,
you know, survivor.
Just like I love.
He always.
Hey, like, he's alwaysshouting at people.
(15:38):
I love it.
I. Yeah, I love AnthonyHopkins, though.
Like, his.
And you can see his method.
I don't know, I'm sure I'vetalked about it with you guys.
Like, his method.
Listening to him, like, do interviews.
Like, he talks about when hegets a script, he memorizes it to
the point of ridiculousness,because then it becomes second nature
and he can focus on theemotional part of it or the, you
(15:59):
know, the little nuances.
And you see that a lot in this movie.
Like, I always think of thescene Where Tristan's back and they
go the first time and they goto the bar and the guy won't give
him four beers.
And Tristan loses his.
And he keep, like, he.
His dad, like, Anthony Hopkinsgets after him, pins him against
the wall, right?
(16:19):
And, like, calls out what'sgonna happen.
Like, tells him to chill.
And then he doesn't say a wordthe rest of the scene.
But you get that whole.
The facial expressions and theway that he's acting.
Like he sees that Tristan is,like, broken.
And it doesn't matter what hesays to Tristan.
Tristan's gonna do his thingas he's sitting there drinking the
beer after he beat the.
(16:39):
And then held up the bar guyenough to make him pour the beer
so up.
But, like, Anthony Hopkinsperformance within that scene alone,
like, to me is just like oneof them.
It's.
It's so good to watch becauseafter he stops, he doesn't say another
word.
But, man, does his face say alot about what he's seeing from his
(17:00):
son.
And, like, you know, hisfavorite son and most troubled son.
And, like, it's just.
Wow.
Yeah.
So good.
He.
Yeah.
The acting in this movie isoutrageously good across the board.
But why is it always.
Go ahead.
Wrenching.
I was gonna say, what's themost heart wrenching scene for each
of you?
(17:21):
I need to think what.
What rocked me the most?
I mean, there's his old wifewith his brother.
There's.
I mean, the PTSD with hislittle brother getting murdered there.
His Isabelle getting shot.
(17:41):
Isabel too.
I mean, realizing his dad at a stroke.
There's probably somethingelse I should name in there too,
but just a lot in a life.
What about you, Alec?
Oh, I was gonna say grave whenhe's crying at Samuel's grave.
(18:02):
Nice one, because it's really,really good acting by Brad Pitt.
Yeah, he does a great job there.
And you can really see justhow broken Tristan is past the crooked
smile and the, you know, the front.
He's put up for it.
And you get him alone, you cansee that he is just not really holding
(18:24):
anything together.
He's broken beyond almost that point.
Repair.
Yeah.
Brad Pitt does such a good jobjust, like, showcasing that.
So that's one for me.
That.
Yeah, I don't know.
That's.
It's tough question because,like, the one that always comes to
mind first is Samuel's death.
Like, and again, after he'sdead, like, watching Brad Pitt's
(18:47):
character Tristan, like, cutout his heart so that he could send
it home, and then, like, goesnuts But I think the one that is
even more poignant to me inthe heart wrenching piece is as he's
getting his revenge forIsabelle too.
Having to watch what's.
Why can't I think of her.
(19:08):
Her name now the girl thatcauses all the problems.
Why can't I think of her name?
Elizabeth.
Susanna.
Susanna, that's right.
Watching Susanna have herbreakdown because Tristan's back
and she's recognizing that shewould have never gone through life
the way she is right now if hehad never left, like, and then cutting
(19:31):
her hair and then eventuallytaking her own life like that to
me is probably the most heartwrenching because he's doing what
he needs to do for the lifethat had grounded him finally.
And he'd moved on from some ofhis mistakes and was trying to, you
know, find that peace and moveforward that was taken from him.
So he gets his revenge and atthe same time him coming back, finding
(19:52):
peace has created thisalarming dissatisfaction and recognition
of her unhappiness within Susanna.
And so like that wholejuxtaposition of these two places,
of these two people just beingdestroyed internally by each other
and what came of where theywere at because of each other.
(20:13):
And then on top of that, thefallout for Albert and for Alfred
and then like the rest of thefamily because of all this stuff,
like to me, like, that's thepeak, it's the, it's the climax of
the film, if you will, andalso the climax like for me of like
an emotional heart wrenchingmoment because all those things say.
(20:35):
The same two things whenSusanna takes her own life.
And then the scene whereAlfred, like, what does he say?
He doesn't, like he doesn'tlike me even now or after all this
time or whatever he says.
And then, funny, you've seen alittle bit of it.
There is the emotional upliftwhen they, they kind of have their
moment finally.
But yeah, just puttingyourself in Suzanne issues, like
(20:58):
you tried to move on, youthought you moved on and then what
is it, five years, six years,seven year, whatever it is, because
you never had closure becauseshe was holding on for years, writing
letters to herself and holdingout hope.
And Tristan, I mean, yeah, hewas, had ptsd, was not giving a full.
I can't give him a full pass.
It was also just a complete dick.
(21:20):
He just upped and left andeffectively said nothing.
And she was trying to be loyaland hold on and at some point had
to decide to.
It's never that I clearly shenever fully moved on, but went in
a different Direction might bethe better phrase and did that.
And then I'm sure she had allthese feelings when he came back
(21:41):
and realized he's here, heseems sane, but I'm with his brother.
He's now with this girl andwhy is that?
Not me?
Like, what the hell?
Like.
And then she clearly wentthrough all that to let her.
To take her own life andthat's just super sad.
And you put yourself in theoldest brother's shoes and some.
(22:04):
I mean you just want your dadto like you.
You just want your dad torespect you.
And he tried to do good thingsfor the family.
I mean he was.
He's a dick at times, but he'salso well charactered and tried to
look after his family.
And thankfully he got some ofthat towards the end.
But that would be really hardand being a part of seeing your wife
(22:25):
die because you knew that shejust wanted to be with your little
brother and a lot of familydrama right there.
Yeah, but that's life.
I mean you think about had a.
You're living.
(22:47):
Hard thing in my life and I'msure there'll be another.
Like there's just things thatpeople get hit with and you try to
make sense of it and moveforward but man, sometimes you like
some people just felt theworst hand and get out of it.
Yeah, I think that's wherelike I feel you when you say that
the movie has like it's slow paced.
(23:07):
Because it is.
But I think what helps me getpast that is the fact that this movie
is very deliberate with everyscene that it has.
And I think that's one of thereasons that I enjoy it as much as
I do as a whole is that everyscene has something to add to someone's
emotional state.
In this movie, sometimes it'sa more than one character.
(23:29):
And so I can live with theslow because I'm watching these little
pieces of life that arecreating emotional distress, maybe
helping relieve some of thatdistress or at least giving that
false sense of security thatwe've moved on and we're okay.
Like those scenes like, arevery like powerful in the grand scheme
(23:50):
of things to where we get.
And I feel like in a lot ofplaces we talk about, in a lot of
movies we talk about.
Sorry that there's placeswhere I'm like, I didn't need that
for this movie to hit the waythat it does cut out 10 minutes here
or 5 minutes there.
I can't really think of a lotof places.
I mean there's probably acouple small, small places in this
(24:10):
movie.
But I can't think of a lot ofthe content that you could cut in
this movie that doesn't insome way shape or form like impact
the overarching storytellingpiece of it, or the character development
of one of these like five orsix main characters that we need
to see how they're impacted.
(24:30):
Like, I think you could cutback maybe a little bit on the, the
letter writing piece fromSusanna to, to Tristan while he's
off and gone.
But I, but I also don't knowbecause really demonstrates the,
like the distress that she'sin and like the fact that she's practically
begging him to come back upuntil the point that she gets that
(24:52):
letter.
And then you see her sittingon the rocking chair in that moment,
just absolutely crushed to thepoint that she doesn't even say anything
to Albert or Alfred when he's there.
It's just like, man.
So I don't know.
Like that's.
Yeah, I think that's one ofthe other things that I think about
this movie is it is.
It's very much a characterdriven storytelling movie with some
really exciting parts in the middle.
(25:13):
But yeah, I don't, I don'tknow what I would cut in this film
because I worry about itmessing with the integrity of the,
the story and the character development.
But.
But yeah, it is slow.
I mean it is very, verystorytelling, character driven stuff.
So I can feel that.
(25:37):
The music helps though.
Yeah, the movie, the music isreally good.
So good.
I love too that they filmed on location.
Like they're up there in themiddle of nowhere, Montana.
And you can tell like it's there.
Montana's beautiful, But I'mlike, well, there's not a lot.
(25:58):
Montana, dang beautiful.
Sky's beautiful, but a littletoo remote for me.
And it's been some spotsyou're driving on the freeway and
there's gas stations few andfar between.
If you had a bad running, belike you a be getting help for a
long time.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Montana is one of the, one ofthe few places left that have like
(26:19):
untouched land.
And it's.
Yeah, it's gorgeous up there.
It is.
Yeah.
I do.
I always get intrigued too bythe, the political nature of this
movie.
Like there's a lot ofpolitical underpinnings in this movie.
Like we talk about the, thenative and obviously settlers at
(26:39):
that time, like that relationship.
And like, you see, it'sinteresting to watch that progression
and it's, you know, it's oneof those things that could spark
a massive debate that there's,there's always someone to hate for
some stupid ass reason.
Right?
Like, and it's interestingthat you see it a lot in this movie
(26:59):
and how that plays out.
But yeah, there's just a lotgoing on with this movie too, things
like that.
And you get to see some oflike, and I love that it's coming
from Stab, like the storiescoming from old man Stab sitting
as he's.
He's dying, you know what I mean?
(27:20):
Like, and so he's telling thisstory to his kids, grandkids, whoever
it might be, about Tristan andyou know, the, the Colonel and like,
it's just an interesting wayto tell that story.
And we'll talk about this inone of the other movies that we record
for this month.
But like, there is a littlenarration there, but I think that
(27:41):
narration actually moves thismovie forward in a very good way
where a lot of times I'm like,oh my God, stop talking.
But this one, I think I reallylike the way that it's, that it's
done.
Especially the finalmonologue, like at the end of the
movie where he's talking aboutafter they came together to get rid
of the o' Bannons and the copsand whatnot.
And Tristan goes off and, anddisappears to keep everybody and
(28:05):
like, like that whole.
You know, we thought he, Inever thought he'd live long and
very long, but it's the peoplearound him that all died young and
like the impact that he had.
And then just him fighting a bear.
What a great they were in the movie.
A rock that they.
He was the rock they all brokeagainst, is how he said it.
The bear scene at the end, I,I liked it, but it also, it was kind
(28:30):
of like the, the imagery, likethe, the graininess, the, like the,
the way they cut it and everything.
I don't know.
I didn't like.
It was a little odd to me inthe camera choices for me personally,
just felt I was like, whatcould we not pay Brad Pitt to like
fight a bear with, make himlook a little bit older or something.
(28:50):
Like, what.
What's with this, like, blurryblonde haired?
I. I don't know.
I took me out of it a littlebit because I was thinking about
that instead of like feelingthe, the moment of it ending.
Oh, how podcasts ruin ourviewing pleasure.
The way we used to watch movies.
Sure.
That was just 1995.
(29:10):
Like, they were like, we'llmake this work.
I, at first, I, when it first,like the first time I saw it, I was
like, wait, did they getAnthony Hopkins to fight a bear like
that.
Because that's what I first thought.
I was like, oh, no, it's justsomething to stunt dude.
But yeah, it was just.
It was interesting, but, Imean, a cool way for him to go out.
(29:32):
Like, it felt very fitting.
It was just.
Yeah, you know.
Yeah, we'll be nitpicky.
It's what we do here.
Sure.
Yeah.
I like the.
The full circle moment.
Like, we start off beingintroduced to Tristan as a character
getting in a fight with abear, and then he goes out in a fight
with a bear, and then in themiddle of it, we see that moment
(29:53):
where it's the same bear thathe's got wearing earth, his toe around
his neck his whole life, buthe lets it live.
So, yeah, I just, like I said, the.
The imagery of this movie andthe storytelling and like, the foreshadowing
and like, all of theinterconnected pieces, it's very
impressive if you sit down andwatch it and look for those, like,
(30:16):
all that connective tissuethat this movie has.
Like, I think it's one of thereasons that I really enjoy the movie
as a whole.
But, yeah, it's good stuff.
Should we rate it?
Let's do it.
All right, I'll go first.
I'm gonna give it a five.
I think from.
In terms of storytelling andacting and writing and, you know,
(30:40):
even Matson mentioned it.
Music and like, visuals, eventhough there are some weird, grainy
shots in it.
A couple moments.
But, like, I just think from astorytelling movie perspective in
a.
In a character development,character driven movie, I don't.
I can't think of very manythat do it better than this one.
(31:01):
It's intriguing.
The characters areinteresting, they're flawed.
That is one place where I'llgive Madsen to say, this is real
life.
Like, these aren't perfect people.
In fact, they're very, very imperfect.
To the point that you got theyoungest that gets everybody in trouble
because he.
He's chasing glory like his dad.
And his dad, ironicallyenough, loves him for his simplicity
(31:24):
and the fact that he's kindhearted and he's the best of them,
right?
And you got these two brothersthat are grizzled in their own ways
in very different ways andwant the same.
You know, the only one thatdoesn't want glory is the one that
ends up being the most famousof the brother.
You know, it's just this wild,huge storytelling and these characters
and actors that are in it takeyou through that story in a very,
(31:47):
very meaningful way.
And, yeah, I'm just intriguedevery time I watch it.
Like, I can't take my eyes offthe screen.
And Brad Pitt, since we're inBrad Pitt Month, absolutely kills
it as the guy that carriesthis movie.
And thankfully they got somevery good actors to act against him
because, yeah, he does aphenomenal job in this movie along
with all of them.
(32:08):
But yeah, I'm gonna give it a five.
I think from a dramaticperspective, this is one of my top
dramas that I will always graband watch again with some time in
between to let the emotionscool off because it's not an easy
watch because there's not verymuch happiness in this movie.
But very good storytelling,very good movie.
Mattin.
(32:29):
Oh, what am I gonna give this movie?
Four and a half.
I think the only reason isjust pacing for me.
It's one of those movies.
We've done this a lot lately.
Some good movies, but moviesthat require the emotional investment.
This is definitely a movie.
Certainly you can't just popin for 10 minutes or 10 minutes here
(32:52):
that you gotta like, you gotta.
You gotta be in it, sit downin it, be in that world.
And for that, definitely notsomething that I'll just return to
right away.
Also probably need to be in ahappy place while you're watching
this.
Not for the faint of heart,maybe to help you appreciate your
life a little bit more if youare going through a hard time.
(33:12):
Because certainly don't wantTristan's life, that or Susanna's
life or most of these people's lives.
Also probably just don't wantto live in the 19th century.
Like maybe sorry, not 19, 20thcentury, back up there, 19th as well.
You just appreciate the modernconvenience of things that we have.
And really good movie.
(33:33):
I'm happy to have watched it.
Had never seen it, obviouslyhad heard the music.
But I'm sure I will watch it again.
I will say that like, it isdefinitely worth the second watch.
It's just something I needsome time in between.
I'll take my six or seven year hiatus.
Like Tristan.
I'll come back and I'll watchit and be prepared.
I'm sure I'll watch it beforethen, but it was a good movie.
(33:56):
All right, Alec, bring it home.
This is also going to be afive for me.
I mean, so many things that Ienjoy about this movie.
It does go over the top, in myopinion, on a few places where it's
like you didn't have to go sofar to get your message across to
that point.
But I also love the fact thatyou know it's kind of the whole backdrop.
(34:18):
Or not the whole backdrop, buta large portion of the backdrop really
is that the government's theproblem and prohibition is the catalyst
for a lot of the shit that happens.
But it's.
It's such an underlying themethat it just kind of simmers under
the surface.
And so, I mean, there's somuch in this for me to love that
I will go back and watch thispretty much anytime, despite the
(34:41):
fact that it is a heavy, heavywatch to sit through.
But yeah, that's a five for me.
Nice.
Well, there it is.
That was a quick one.
But it's.
It's a good movie.
Alec.
Toba really can find us whenthey're not listening to us at each
other about movies.
Happy to.
So thank you for tuning intoweek three of Brad Pitt.
September doesn't have to seem.
(35:03):
Yeah, no alliteration.
Damn it.
Son of a.
But yeah, this is week three.
You can find us on what's OurVerdict at YouTube where you can
see our smiling face while werip on each other.
But other than that, the bestplace to follow us is on Patreon
at what's our Verdict?
Reviews.
We have 550 plus getting closeto 600 little bits of content that
(35:28):
are extra on Patreon.
But in addition to that,Patreon is where we vote on movies.
So we put up a list.
You guys can come and vote forwhat you want us to watch and review.
And the voting part iscompletely free.
If you want a little bit ofthe extra content, it's gonna cost
you a couple bucks, but it'sworth it.
There is some full lengthepisodes on there as well as loops,
(35:48):
reels, extras, us talking eachother and just talking about life
in general.
So join us over there.
It's great, Laugh.
Love to see you around.
Special thanks to our patrons.
Let's see Rich and Charlesstill at it.
Appreciate you guys andeverything that you do.
And with that, I will kick itback to the colossus of clout.
(36:13):
The great bambino.
A jj.
Yeah, thanks, Alec.
Yeah, Patreon's a lot of fun.
Not to mention if you hit acertain level, then that's why we
call out Charles and Richbecause they still sit at the level
where we shout them out every episode.
So can also get that becomewhat's our Verdict?
(36:33):
Famous.
There you go.
Oh, there we go.
That's.
Hey, you know, it's.
It's an important thing as acertified man of the people.
Like, let me tell you, like, it's.
It's an honor.
That's right.
That's right.
And on that note, as always,we appreciate you tuning in.
We'll catch you on the next one.
(36:54):
Hasta la vista, baby.
Cinematic.
It's a weird side story, butthat works.
We're gonna educate ouraudience on sexual education here.
Except our audience.
Nobody should come to us forsex ed.
Definitely not.
No.
Let me just chalk that up to atopic we never expected to talk about
on this podcast.
You know that that's what I'mhere for.
(00:28):
Welcome to the what's UpVerdict podcast, where we fashion
ourselves cinematic Jud and Jerry.
My name is J.J. crowder.
I'm here with my co hosts, Matson.
Heiner, Better Red Than Dead,and Alec Burgess.
Let's get it.
We appreciate you tuning in.
Go ahead, hit that.
Follow, subscribe.
Like bell notification buttons.
Hit all those buttons.
I hope you keep up with our episodes.
Help support the podcast, helpit grow.
(00:50):
Also helping it grow will betelling your friends and family members
about us.
Tell some ranchers about us.
Maybe we're okay with any kindof rancher.
Doesn't just have to be cattleranchers, but maybe not PTSD driven
sons of ranchers.
That would be good.
But, yeah, we're here.
Week two, Week two.
(01:11):
That's crazy to even thinkabout, right?
Is week two, or is this week one?
This is week two?
Week two.
Yeah.
Week two.
Week three.
Is it week three?
It's week three.
It is week three.
Yeah.
Because we did Ocean.
Sevens and oceans.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Geez.
See what happens.
I get all twisted up.
(01:32):
Yeah.
It's week three of Brad Pitt'sSeptember, and we're diving deep,
and we are talking aboutLegends of the Fall.
It was released January 13, 1995.
It was written by SusanShilladay and William Wittliffe.
It was directed by Edward Zwick.
(01:52):
It stars Brad Pitt, AnthonyHopkins, Aiden Quinn, Julie Ormond,
Henry Thomas, Karina Lombard,Tantu, Cardinal Gordon, two Tusis,
Paul Desmond, ChristinaPickles, Robert Wisden, and John
Novak.
It is about.
In the early 1900s, threebrothers and their father living
in the remote wilderness ofMontana are affected by betrayal,
(02:12):
history, love, nature, and war.
Boy, that's quite the synopsis.
Yeah.
This was my movie, so I guessI get to kick this whole deal off.
Yes, sir.
Yeah, look, when I think aboutBrad Pitt movies, and I know we talked
about seven, and there's someothers bangers coming that we talk
(02:33):
about, but this is probablythe first movie that I think of when
someone says Brad Pitt.
It was one of those moviesthat, like, I went to, and I remember
going to it thinking, I don'tknow how I'm gonna feel about this.
Like.
And I went on a date with.
Man, it was a long time ago.
(02:54):
Tell us, Jay, how old were youin 1995?
14.
So I was four.
Yeah, that was two.
Yeah.
It's funny.
Yeah, that's.
That's.
Yeah, we went and saw itbecause everybody's like, ooh, Brad
Pitt's so dreamy.
And of course, Anthony Hopkinsand Aiden Quinn at the time was still.
(03:15):
He was popular enough that itwas quite the draw as far as the
cast went.
And I remember sitting in thatmovie going, this is not gonna be
my kind of movie.
And 10 minutes in, I'm like,man, this is slow as balls.
And then all of a sudden, Iwas like, okay, this movie's wild.
And then it just kept gettingwilder and wilder.
And then I just kind of fellin love with it.
(03:37):
And it's one of those moviesthat I can go back to anytime.
So when Brad Pitt's name gotthrown out as one of our list and
it got voted for, I was like,oh, yeah, Legends of the Falls ending
up on this list because it's.
Yeah, it's, to me, one of thebetter movies that has Brad Pitt
in it.
If not, like, probably on mylist, probably could be the best
(03:58):
that I consider with Brad Pittin it.
So maybe not Brad Pitt's best,like, overall movie, if you're just
talking Brad Pitt in general,but movies that have Brad Pitt in
it, that.
I think it's up there for me,really, really high.
Yeah, I just really like it.
And we'll.
I'm sure we'll talk more aboutwhy, but, yeah, that's, that's why
it's on this list, becausethis one really sticks out for me.
(04:19):
Had you guys seen this one before?
I had not.
There's a character called theOne Stab.
Of course, I was gonna say, I,I figured Alad.
But what's funny, I, I, I knewwhat this.
I mean, I'd seen the COVID ofthis movie many times.
One of my.
I have a movie playlist that I sometimes.
Well, more than sometimes.
I listen to quite a bit whenI'm trying to focus.
(04:41):
And the main theme song fromthis movie is on there.
Incredible.
I mean, you talk about one of the.
Probably the best.
I mean, I hear the song allthe time.
I've always known, okay, thisis the movie it came from.
I just never had gotten aroundto watching it.
But incredible song.
And so definitely hit somevibes for me when that came on.
(05:03):
It's slow, I have to have tosay that.
But as we'll talk aboutoutside of it, I think there's much
to be commended.
And, like, I Always say, Ilove a movie that has a realistic
ending.
I mean, this movie definitelydoesn't shy away from how things
probably would have been inmore ways than one.
So I can appreciate it for that.
(05:24):
But I think that certainly thepace is like at times, but kind of
how life moved back then too.
So it's probably true to times anyway.
So I don't know if that'sgonna hinder how I completely feel
about it, but.
Yeah, it's a little long, butfirst time watch through.
I mean, I was happy to havewatched it for sure.
Like, I mean, great acting.
(05:46):
I love that time period.
Just, I mean, I'm sure thegirls liked it.
Brad Pitt with longer hair,like, dreamy dude on screen.
Very fair.
I don't know if the sex scenewould have quite looked like that
back in the day.
That felt a littleHollywoodized, but, you know, we
do what we do.
Yeah, 90 sex scenes were veryglamorous and beautiful when.
(06:09):
And I'm pretty sure theyprobably got pregnant potentially,
so that would have made thingsharder back then.
I don't know how they were.
Just every time you had sex,you're like, I think we might have
another person to help us onthe farm.
Maybe, maybe not.
I mean, I'm sure they knewabout the pull out method back then
even.
Yeah.
I mean, you're obviously notthe most secure way to protect yourself,
(06:34):
but danger.
Dangerous game, it's fair.
It's a weird side story, butthat works.
We're gonna educate ouraudience on sexual education here.
Except our audience.
Nobody should come to us for sex.
Definitely not.
No.
(06:55):
Let me just chalk that up to atopic we never expected to talk about
on this podcast.
You know, that's what I'm here for.
I mean, we've talked aboutdolphin sex.
But that's that movie.
That movie invited that, though.
That wasn't completely out ofleft field.
Yeah.
All right.
Alec, when did you first seeLegends of the fall?
(07:16):
Oh, probably 12 or 13.
That's when I first saw it.
And I.
It's one of those.
I don't watch enough.
But they're.
They do a really good job withcertain scenes in this, but those
very same scenes, I almostfeel like they go too far.
Like when Samuel dies.
(07:38):
Right.
Their brother.
I was like, great scene.
Real gut wrencher, butfreaking mustard gas, this dude.
And then lined up a machine gun.
Yeah, it's like, like you.
You could have gotten yourpoint across without needing to go
there, in my opinion.
(08:00):
So it's.
It's a hard one becausethere's just like four or five of
these really big, like, youdidn't have to go there to get your
point across scenes, but youwent there anyway, which makes it
a little bit more of a, notreally a drag, but a tougher watch.
(08:20):
So I, I go a bit in between.
But it's, it's really good storytelling.
I like the storytelling.
This movie does a very goodjob with that.
So it's always one that when Isit down to watch it, I have a good
time, you know, and I enjoythe fact that I sat down and watched
it.
Maybe not have a good timewhile I'm watching it.
But yeah, but yeah, I, I,it's, it's one of those where it's
(08:44):
always a solid watch and I'llsit down and watch it pretty much
anytime, anywhere.
I love this movie.
Yeah, it's a good one.
I like the, the, the timeperiod between when Tristan left
to when he came back.
They obviously don't give anamount of time.
How much time do we feel likeit was?
(09:07):
Couple years?
More than like five years,eight years.
Like.
I mean it had to been a goodlong while because when they were
talking about Isabel too, shewas what they say, 19 when they were,
they got married when he, like13, 12.
Yeah, I was gonna say when heleaves, she was, she couldn't have
(09:28):
been more than 12 or 13.
So it had to have been atleast like six to six to eight years
probably depending six, seven years.
Dude, just up and leave.
Yeah.
Go find yourself.
Yeah.
Go to all the places and justleave that Mrs.
(09:50):
Behind.
Yeah, you do what you do.
Right.
Like I think, and I thinkthat's where like Alec, you mentioned
that the storytelling in thisis crazy and like it's wild and the
whole like obviously you seeearly on, Tristan's no stay at home,
hang out at the ranch kind of guy.
(10:10):
But like you put, you add inthe whole self loathing, like torture,
like ptsd.
Like you add that in and Idon't know how he stood still for
any amount of time.
You know what I mean?
And then every time thingsstarted to feel like they were gonna
turn around, like somehappened to this dude.
(10:31):
And then like you get thatmoment where he's talking to his
dad at the end and startstalking about the fact that he cursed
God and then so he's cursed.
And it's just like you piecetogether like what this dude's been
living with.
Like you, you see it, right?
The major moments, but likethat, that self loathing and like
regret of having not been there.
(10:54):
And then Doing what you thinkcaused all these curses around you.
Like, man, it just.
It's so crazy to think aboutthe damage internally and, like,
emotionally that he had beendoing to himself constantly.
And then you have to alsowonder on the flip side, like, if
(11:15):
he had just sat still, right?
Like, okay, so you can't getpast his brother dying.
That was out of his control atthe end of the day.
But after that, like, he had acouple of moments where he probably
could have just.
I mean, stayed and thencouldn't handle it.
(11:36):
Like, it's just.
Yeah, it's tough.
It's a tough watch.
It's an emotional movie.
I think that's one of thethings that I like the most about
it is, like, it's hard towatch that and not, like, feel some.
One way or another.
You know what I mean?
And everything from, like,sadness to, like, you know, a little
bit of joy for him, but at thesame time, like, anger.
Good Lord.
Like, there's very little moresatisfying than when the dude gets
(11:59):
impaled by the pitchfork inthe freaking bootleg shed after they
killed Isabelle.
Man, that's crazy.
I love that part.
Like, him stalking the dude,and then the dude, the dad, like,
sniping down the other cop inthe middle of nowhere.
Like, yeah, that's.
That's one of those crazy.
All those scenes where Tristangoes nuts.
(12:21):
You're just like, get him.
Like, you do.
That's not the dude that youwant to have pissed off.
Like, did they aim to killIsabelle, or was it a ricochet?
It's a ricochet.
They felt.
Yeah, it was a ricochet, butobviously they didn't quite seem
to care.
Yeah, well, and it's thatthere is that moment, too, like,
(12:43):
when they first realized thatIsabelle was shot and he's losing
it.
Like, you see the look on bigbrother o' Bannon's face, and he's
like, ah, God damn it.
Because it's not gonna end well.
But I think one of the otherthings that gets me is, like, the
relationship between the twoolder brothers with Albert and Tristan
and, like, that level of blameand entire, like, toxic relationship
(13:07):
due to.
I mean, it's.
And they mention it in themovie, Tristan is all in his old.
Andy's old.
This.
That book story.
And, like, obviously, this isa modernized, even more twisted version
of that to a degree, but, man,that's a.
That's a tough one.
And then, like, when he asked,when he comes after the funeral,
(13:28):
he's like, they're gonna comeget you, and you're gonna Go to jail,
even though there's nothinghappening to this cop and whatnot.
Like, man, what a mess.
Just so much going on in thismovie that you have to, like, wade
through.
It's another movie that, like,I'm like, I can't watch this all
the time, but it's such a good movie.
(13:49):
And Anthony Hopkins, goodLord, I love him in this movie so
much.
Like, and this is another onethat, like, I talk a lot about Anthony
Hopkins and how much I.
He's got to be one of myfavorite actors of all time.
But, like, this is one ofthose ones where you see him on all
fronts and, like, all he'strying to do is, like, protect his
family.
And then I love.
Like, I always think of Alecnow whenever he talks about, like,
(14:12):
he hates the government.
Like, when they have thatshout, he's like, the government?
Screw them.
He's half of the bag after hisstroke, and he's flipping them off
barely.
Like, I always think about,screw the government.
Where do you think I got it from?
Yeah, it's gonna be Alec as anold man.
(14:34):
That's right.
That's right.
I like Anthony Hopkins is,too, because it's like they turned
him loose almost, where, youknow, he's.
He typically plays almost likea really uptight but very proper
characters, and on occasion,they'll let him loose.
And this is one where theypretty much let him loose.
(14:56):
He does such a good job.
Oh, yeah.
To really showcase his actingtalent because it's.
It's almost like he's one ofthose people where you can't really
direct him.
You just kind of point himwhere you want him to go, and wherever
he ends up is where your movieneeds to be.
And so I feel like the cuttingthem loose, especially after, you
(15:17):
know, his character has strokeand just crazy old man going.
It's.
It's beautiful.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
And the way he plays that,like, just that impacted stroke,
you know, survivor.
Just like I love.
He always.
Hey, like, he's alwaysshouting at people.
(15:38):
I love it.
I. Yeah, I love AnthonyHopkins, though.
Like, his.
And you can see his method.
I don't know, I'm sure I'vetalked about it with you guys.
Like, his method.
Listening to him, like, do interviews.
Like, he talks about when hegets a script, he memorizes it to
the point of ridiculousness,because then it becomes second nature
and he can focus on theemotional part of it or the, you
(15:59):
know, the little nuances.
And you see that a lot in this movie.
Like, I always think of thescene Where Tristan's back and they
go the first time and they goto the bar and the guy won't give
him four beers.
And Tristan loses his.
And he keep, like, he.
His dad, like, Anthony Hopkinsgets after him, pins him against
the wall, right?
(16:19):
And, like, calls out what'sgonna happen.
Like, tells him to chill.
And then he doesn't say a wordthe rest of the scene.
But you get that whole.
The facial expressions and theway that he's acting.
Like he sees that Tristan is,like, broken.
And it doesn't matter what hesays to Tristan.
Tristan's gonna do his thingas he's sitting there drinking the
beer after he beat the.
(16:39):
And then held up the bar guyenough to make him pour the beer
so up.
But, like, Anthony Hopkinsperformance within that scene alone,
like, to me is just like oneof them.
It's.
It's so good to watch becauseafter he stops, he doesn't say another
word.
But, man, does his face say alot about what he's seeing from his
(17:00):
son.
And, like, you know, hisfavorite son and most troubled son.
And, like, it's just.
Wow.
Yeah.
So good.
He.
Yeah.
The acting in this movie isoutrageously good across the board.
But why is it always.
Go ahead.
Wrenching.
I was gonna say, what's themost heart wrenching scene for each
of you?
(17:21):
I need to think what.
What rocked me the most?
I mean, there's his old wifewith his brother.
There's.
I mean, the PTSD with hislittle brother getting murdered there.
His Isabelle getting shot.
(17:41):
Isabel too.
I mean, realizing his dad at a stroke.
There's probably somethingelse I should name in there too,
but just a lot in a life.
What about you, Alec?
Oh, I was gonna say grave whenhe's crying at Samuel's grave.
(18:02):
Nice one, because it's really,really good acting by Brad Pitt.
Yeah, he does a great job there.
And you can really see justhow broken Tristan is past the crooked
smile and the, you know, the front.
He's put up for it.
And you get him alone, you cansee that he is just not really holding
(18:24):
anything together.
He's broken beyond almost that point.
Repair.
Yeah.
Brad Pitt does such a good jobjust, like, showcasing that.
So that's one for me.
That.
Yeah, I don't know.
That's.
It's tough question because,like, the one that always comes to
mind first is Samuel's death.
Like, and again, after he'sdead, like, watching Brad Pitt's
(18:47):
character Tristan, like, cutout his heart so that he could send
it home, and then, like, goesnuts But I think the one that is
even more poignant to me inthe heart wrenching piece is as he's
getting his revenge forIsabelle too.
Having to watch what's.
Why can't I think of her.
(19:08):
Her name now the girl thatcauses all the problems.
Why can't I think of her name?
Elizabeth.
Susanna.
Susanna, that's right.
Watching Susanna have herbreakdown because Tristan's back
and she's recognizing that shewould have never gone through life
the way she is right now if hehad never left, like, and then cutting
(19:31):
her hair and then eventuallytaking her own life like that to
me is probably the most heartwrenching because he's doing what
he needs to do for the lifethat had grounded him finally.
And he'd moved on from some ofhis mistakes and was trying to, you
know, find that peace and moveforward that was taken from him.
So he gets his revenge and atthe same time him coming back, finding
(19:52):
peace has created thisalarming dissatisfaction and recognition
of her unhappiness within Susanna.
And so like that wholejuxtaposition of these two places,
of these two people just beingdestroyed internally by each other
and what came of where theywere at because of each other.
(20:13):
And then on top of that, thefallout for Albert and for Alfred
and then like the rest of thefamily because of all this stuff,
like to me, like, that's thepeak, it's the, it's the climax of
the film, if you will, andalso the climax like for me of like
an emotional heart wrenchingmoment because all those things say.
(20:35):
The same two things whenSusanna takes her own life.
And then the scene whereAlfred, like, what does he say?
He doesn't, like he doesn'tlike me even now or after all this
time or whatever he says.
And then, funny, you've seen alittle bit of it.
There is the emotional upliftwhen they, they kind of have their
moment finally.
But yeah, just puttingyourself in Suzanne issues, like
(20:58):
you tried to move on, youthought you moved on and then what
is it, five years, six years,seven year, whatever it is, because
you never had closure becauseshe was holding on for years, writing
letters to herself and holdingout hope.
And Tristan, I mean, yeah, hewas, had ptsd, was not giving a full.
I can't give him a full pass.
It was also just a complete dick.
(21:20):
He just upped and left andeffectively said nothing.
And she was trying to be loyaland hold on and at some point had
to decide to.
It's never that I clearly shenever fully moved on, but went in
a different Direction might bethe better phrase and did that.
And then I'm sure she had allthese feelings when he came back
(21:41):
and realized he's here, heseems sane, but I'm with his brother.
He's now with this girl andwhy is that?
Not me?
Like, what the hell?
Like.
And then she clearly wentthrough all that to let her.
To take her own life andthat's just super sad.
And you put yourself in theoldest brother's shoes and some.
(22:04):
I mean you just want your dadto like you.
You just want your dad torespect you.
And he tried to do good thingsfor the family.
I mean he was.
He's a dick at times, but he'salso well charactered and tried to
look after his family.
And thankfully he got some ofthat towards the end.
But that would be really hardand being a part of seeing your wife
(22:25):
die because you knew that shejust wanted to be with your little
brother and a lot of familydrama right there.
Yeah, but that's life.
I mean you think about had a.
You're living.
(22:47):
Hard thing in my life and I'msure there'll be another.
Like there's just things thatpeople get hit with and you try to
make sense of it and moveforward but man, sometimes you like
some people just felt theworst hand and get out of it.
Yeah, I think that's wherelike I feel you when you say that
the movie has like it's slow paced.
(23:07):
Because it is.
But I think what helps me getpast that is the fact that this movie
is very deliberate with everyscene that it has.
And I think that's one of thereasons that I enjoy it as much as
I do as a whole is that everyscene has something to add to someone's
emotional state.
In this movie, sometimes it'sa more than one character.
(23:29):
And so I can live with theslow because I'm watching these little
pieces of life that arecreating emotional distress, maybe
helping relieve some of thatdistress or at least giving that
false sense of security thatwe've moved on and we're okay.
Like those scenes like, arevery like powerful in the grand scheme
(23:50):
of things to where we get.
And I feel like in a lot ofplaces we talk about, in a lot of
movies we talk about.
Sorry that there's placeswhere I'm like, I didn't need that
for this movie to hit the waythat it does cut out 10 minutes here
or 5 minutes there.
I can't really think of a lotof places.
I mean there's probably acouple small, small places in this
(24:10):
movie.
But I can't think of a lot ofthe content that you could cut in
this movie that doesn't insome way shape or form like impact
the overarching storytellingpiece of it, or the character development
of one of these like five orsix main characters that we need
to see how they're impacted.
(24:30):
Like, I think you could cutback maybe a little bit on the, the
letter writing piece fromSusanna to, to Tristan while he's
off and gone.
But I, but I also don't knowbecause really demonstrates the,
like the distress that she'sin and like the fact that she's practically
begging him to come back upuntil the point that she gets that
(24:52):
letter.
And then you see her sittingon the rocking chair in that moment,
just absolutely crushed to thepoint that she doesn't even say anything
to Albert or Alfred when he's there.
It's just like, man.
So I don't know.
Like that's.
Yeah, I think that's one ofthe other things that I think about
this movie is it is.
It's very much a characterdriven storytelling movie with some
really exciting parts in the middle.
(25:13):
But yeah, I don't, I don'tknow what I would cut in this film
because I worry about itmessing with the integrity of the,
the story and the character development.
But.
But yeah, it is slow.
I mean it is very, verystorytelling, character driven stuff.
So I can feel that.
(25:37):
The music helps though.
Yeah, the movie, the music isreally good.
So good.
I love too that they filmed on location.
Like they're up there in themiddle of nowhere, Montana.
And you can tell like it's there.
Montana's beautiful, But I'mlike, well, there's not a lot.
(25:58):
Montana, dang beautiful.
Sky's beautiful, but a littletoo remote for me.
And it's been some spotsyou're driving on the freeway and
there's gas stations few andfar between.
If you had a bad running, belike you a be getting help for a
long time.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Montana is one of the, one ofthe few places left that have like
(26:19):
untouched land.
And it's.
Yeah, it's gorgeous up there.
It is.
Yeah.
I do.
I always get intrigued too bythe, the political nature of this
movie.
Like there's a lot ofpolitical underpinnings in this movie.
Like we talk about the, thenative and obviously settlers at
(26:39):
that time, like that relationship.
And like, you see, it'sinteresting to watch that progression
and it's, you know, it's oneof those things that could spark
a massive debate that there's,there's always someone to hate for
some stupid ass reason.
Right?
Like, and it's interestingthat you see it a lot in this movie
(26:59):
and how that plays out.
But yeah, there's just a lotgoing on with this movie too, things
like that.
And you get to see some oflike, and I love that it's coming
from Stab, like the storiescoming from old man Stab sitting
as he's.
He's dying, you know what I mean?
(27:20):
Like, and so he's telling thisstory to his kids, grandkids, whoever
it might be, about Tristan andyou know, the, the Colonel and like,
it's just an interesting wayto tell that story.
And we'll talk about this inone of the other movies that we record
for this month.
But like, there is a littlenarration there, but I think that
(27:41):
narration actually moves thismovie forward in a very good way
where a lot of times I'm like,oh my God, stop talking.
But this one, I think I reallylike the way that it's, that it's
done.
Especially the finalmonologue, like at the end of the
movie where he's talking aboutafter they came together to get rid
of the o' Bannons and the copsand whatnot.
And Tristan goes off and, anddisappears to keep everybody and
(28:05):
like, like that whole.
You know, we thought he, Inever thought he'd live long and
very long, but it's the peoplearound him that all died young and
like the impact that he had.
And then just him fighting a bear.
What a great they were in the movie.
A rock that they.
He was the rock they all brokeagainst, is how he said it.
The bear scene at the end, I,I liked it, but it also, it was kind
(28:30):
of like the, the imagery, likethe, the graininess, the, like the,
the way they cut it and everything.
I don't know.
I didn't like.
It was a little odd to me inthe camera choices for me personally,
just felt I was like, whatcould we not pay Brad Pitt to like
fight a bear with, make himlook a little bit older or something.
(28:50):
Like, what.
What's with this, like, blurryblonde haired?
I. I don't know.
I took me out of it a littlebit because I was thinking about
that instead of like feelingthe, the moment of it ending.
Oh, how podcasts ruin ourviewing pleasure.
The way we used to watch movies.
Sure.
That was just 1995.
(29:10):
Like, they were like, we'llmake this work.
I, at first, I, when it first,like the first time I saw it, I was
like, wait, did they getAnthony Hopkins to fight a bear like
that.
Because that's what I first thought.
I was like, oh, no, it's justsomething to stunt dude.
But yeah, it was just.
It was interesting, but, Imean, a cool way for him to go out.
(29:32):
Like, it felt very fitting.
It was just.
Yeah, you know.
Yeah, we'll be nitpicky.
It's what we do here.
Sure.
Yeah.
I like the.
The full circle moment.
Like, we start off beingintroduced to Tristan as a character
getting in a fight with abear, and then he goes out in a fight
with a bear, and then in themiddle of it, we see that moment
(29:53):
where it's the same bear thathe's got wearing earth, his toe around
his neck his whole life, buthe lets it live.
So, yeah, I just, like I said, the.
The imagery of this movie andthe storytelling and like, the foreshadowing
and like, all of theinterconnected pieces, it's very
impressive if you sit down andwatch it and look for those, like,
(30:16):
all that connective tissuethat this movie has.
Like, I think it's one of thereasons that I really enjoy the movie
as a whole.
But, yeah, it's good stuff.
Should we rate it?
Let's do it.
All right, I'll go first.
I'm gonna give it a five.
I think from.
In terms of storytelling andacting and writing and, you know,
(30:40):
even Matson mentioned it.
Music and like, visuals, eventhough there are some weird, grainy
shots in it.
A couple moments.
But, like, I just think from astorytelling movie perspective in
a.
In a character development,character driven movie, I don't.
I can't think of very manythat do it better than this one.
(31:01):
It's intriguing.
The characters areinteresting, they're flawed.
That is one place where I'llgive Madsen to say, this is real
life.
Like, these aren't perfect people.
In fact, they're very, very imperfect.
To the point that you got theyoungest that gets everybody in trouble
because he.
He's chasing glory like his dad.
And his dad, ironicallyenough, loves him for his simplicity
(31:24):
and the fact that he's kindhearted and he's the best of them,
right?
And you got these two brothersthat are grizzled in their own ways
in very different ways andwant the same.
You know, the only one thatdoesn't want glory is the one that
ends up being the most famousof the brother.
You know, it's just this wild,huge storytelling and these characters
and actors that are in it takeyou through that story in a very,
(31:47):
very meaningful way.
And, yeah, I'm just intriguedevery time I watch it.
Like, I can't take my eyes offthe screen.
And Brad Pitt, since we're inBrad Pitt Month, absolutely kills
it as the guy that carriesthis movie.
And thankfully they got somevery good actors to act against him
because, yeah, he does aphenomenal job in this movie along
with all of them.
(32:08):
But yeah, I'm gonna give it a five.
I think from a dramaticperspective, this is one of my top
dramas that I will always graband watch again with some time in
between to let the emotionscool off because it's not an easy
watch because there's not verymuch happiness in this movie.
But very good storytelling,very good movie.
Mattin.
(32:29):
Oh, what am I gonna give this movie?
Four and a half.
I think the only reason isjust pacing for me.
It's one of those movies.
We've done this a lot lately.
Some good movies, but moviesthat require the emotional investment.
This is definitely a movie.
Certainly you can't just popin for 10 minutes or 10 minutes here
(32:52):
that you gotta like, you gotta.
You gotta be in it, sit downin it, be in that world.
And for that, definitely notsomething that I'll just return to
right away.
Also probably need to be in ahappy place while you're watching
this.
Not for the faint of heart,maybe to help you appreciate your
life a little bit more if youare going through a hard time.
(33:12):
Because certainly don't wantTristan's life, that or Susanna's
life or most of these people's lives.
Also probably just don't wantto live in the 19th century.
Like maybe sorry, not 19, 20thcentury, back up there, 19th as well.
You just appreciate the modernconvenience of things that we have.
And really good movie.
(33:33):
I'm happy to have watched it.
Had never seen it, obviouslyhad heard the music.
But I'm sure I will watch it again.
I will say that like, it isdefinitely worth the second watch.
It's just something I needsome time in between.
I'll take my six or seven year hiatus.
Like Tristan.
I'll come back and I'll watchit and be prepared.
I'm sure I'll watch it beforethen, but it was a good movie.
(33:56):
All right, Alec, bring it home.
This is also going to be afive for me.
I mean, so many things that Ienjoy about this movie.
It does go over the top, in myopinion, on a few places where it's
like you didn't have to go sofar to get your message across to
that point.
But I also love the fact thatyou know it's kind of the whole backdrop.
(34:18):
Or not the whole backdrop, buta large portion of the backdrop really
is that the government's theproblem and prohibition is the catalyst
for a lot of the shit that happens.
But it's.
It's such an underlying themethat it just kind of simmers under
the surface.
And so, I mean, there's somuch in this for me to love that
I will go back and watch thispretty much anytime, despite the
(34:41):
fact that it is a heavy, heavywatch to sit through.
But yeah, that's a five for me.
Nice.
Well, there it is.
That was a quick one.
But it's.
It's a good movie.
Alec.
Toba really can find us whenthey're not listening to us at each
other about movies.
Happy to.
So thank you for tuning intoweek three of Brad Pitt.
September doesn't have to seem.
(35:03):
Yeah, no alliteration.
Damn it.
Son of a.
But yeah, this is week three.
You can find us on what's OurVerdict at YouTube where you can
see our smiling face while werip on each other.
But other than that, the bestplace to follow us is on Patreon
at what's our Verdict?
Reviews.
We have 550 plus getting closeto 600 little bits of content that
(35:28):
are extra on Patreon.
But in addition to that,Patreon is where we vote on movies.
So we put up a list.
You guys can come and vote forwhat you want us to watch and review.
And the voting part iscompletely free.
If you want a little bit ofthe extra content, it's gonna cost
you a couple bucks, but it'sworth it.
There is some full lengthepisodes on there as well as loops,
(35:48):
reels, extras, us talking eachother and just talking about life
in general.
So join us over there.
It's great, Laugh.
Love to see you around.
Special thanks to our patrons.
Let's see Rich and Charlesstill at it.
Appreciate you guys andeverything that you do.
And with that, I will kick itback to the colossus of clout.
(36:13):
The great bambino.
A jj.
Yeah, thanks, Alec.
Yeah, Patreon's a lot of fun.
Not to mention if you hit acertain level, then that's why we
call out Charles and Richbecause they still sit at the level
where we shout them out every episode.
So can also get that becomewhat's our Verdict?
(36:33):
Famous.
There you go.
Oh, there we go.
That's.
Hey, you know, it's.
It's an important thing as acertified man of the people.
Like, let me tell you, like, it's.
It's an honor.
That's right.
That's right.
And on that note, as always,we appreciate you tuning in.
We'll catch you on the next one.
(36:54):
Hasta la vista, baby.
Cinematic.
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