August 25, 2025 • 46 mins
This podcast episode delves into the intricacies of the film "Nocturnal Animals," a cinematic exploration that intertwines themes of revenge, regret, and the haunting nature of artistic expression. We grapple with our initial reactions to the film's provocative opening, which sets an unsettling tone that persists throughout the narrative. The discussion navigates the layered storytelling and character development, particularly focusing on the emotional turmoil experienced by the protagonist, portrayed by Amy Adams, as she confronts her past through the lens of her ex-husband's novel. Our analysis extends to the film's visual symbolism and its impact on the audience, raising questions about the nature of revenge and the psychological effects of unresolved trauma. Ultimately, we reflect on the film's profound ability to evoke discomfort and stimulate introspection, marking it as a remarkable yet challenging cinematic experience.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I was not prepared.
At 6:30 in the morning, halfasleep, groggy, just sitting on the
couch and.
Big old two and a half minutesof nothing but big old naked women.
I was sitting there going, why?
Why jj?
Why?
(00:25):
Welcome to the what's aVerdict podcast.
We fashion ourselves cinematicjudge and Jerry.
My name is J.J. crowder.
I'm here with my co host Alec Burch.
Us.
Let's get it.
We appreciate you tuning in.
Go and hit that.
Follow subscribe like Bell.
Notification buttons help youkeep up with all of our episodes
as well as helps grow the podcast.
So we appreciate that inkeeping with growing the podcast.
Go ahead, tell your friends,family members about us.
(00:48):
Normally I tell you to tellsomebody that's related, but I don't
think I want you to tellanybody related to this movie about
us.
Don't tell your friends orfamily about us with this episode
either.
Like skip ahead a week or skipback three weeks.
Yeah, this one.
This one might be a little.
This might get a little weird.
Gonna get really weird.
It's probably not a good firstimpression episode.
(01:11):
But if you're feeling frisky,go ahead and tell an art gallery
person about us.
Maybe a novelist that's outfor revenge.
I don't know.
You got choices.
But yeah, we're on the finalweek, week four of Amy Adams August
and yet another movie chosen.
(01:32):
This one wasn't quite fullychosen to mess with Matson.
There's other reasons behindthe choice on this, but it, it certainly
was a byproduct and a piece Iwas looking forward to.
So once again, Matson's newhouse, even though I'm sure he loves
it, and the fact that he hadto move because he's missing out
on a very well plotted movieto make him hate it.
(01:53):
And I don't know which one hewould have hated worse last week.
So this week's.
But we were going four for four.
Yeah, we were gonna get him zeros.
It's true.
He missed all of them.
It's true.
It's true.
So without further ado, we arereviewing Nocturnal Animals.
It was released December 9, 2016.
It was written by Tom Ford andAustin Wright and it was directed
(02:16):
by Tom Ford.
It stars Amy Adams, JakeGyllenhaal, Michael Shannon, Aaron
Taylor Johnson, Isla Fisher,Ellie Bamber, Armie Hammer, Carl
Glusman, Robert Aramayo, Laura Linney.
It keeps going.
Andrew Riseborough, MichaelSheen and Imogen Waterhouse.
It's about a wealthy artgallery owner who's haunted by her
(02:37):
expos?
Husband's novel, her Memoriesof their relationship and regrets
about their life.
Now that's a synopsis right there.
Nocturnal animals.
Sorry, Alec.
I picked.
Look, I'll pick this one fortwo reasons.
One, I've already talked about it.
To fuck with Madsen, because Iknew he would hate it.
Two, this movie got me thefirst time I watched it.
(02:58):
Like, I watched it becauseeverybody was talking about it and
I'm like, it can't be that good.
Then I watched it and I went,oh, fuck, this movie's wild.
And as I was, I had to rewatchit almost immediately.
So I watched it and went.
I was not mentally preparedfor what I just watched.
So I immediately rewatched itthe second time.
Like, I literally went.
(03:19):
Sat there for five minutesgoing, what the did I just watch?
And then I went, I gottarewatch it.
So I hit replay.
And I remember just sittingand just soaking this film up the
second time.
Because as much as I wouldhave loved messing with Matson with
this, like, this movie is amind of a movie with one of the,
(03:40):
in my opinion, some of thegreatest underlying revenge plot,
like this disgusting sickness.
For you to write a novel tojust get emotional revenge on your
ex wife for you up when shedivorced your ass and left you.
Like, and, and really it wasmore than that.
(04:00):
It was like the whole lifecycle of your relationship that then
ends in divorce and, you know,breakup, and then to just throw this
novel that you know is gonnawith her.
You devote it to her, you nameit after her, and it's just this
twisted ass story that's gonnamake her think of you and get like,
just nuzzle your way into herbrain like a parasite.
(04:24):
Oh my God.
And then we'll talk about the ending.
But like, Jesus, this.
And I was like, this is some diabolical.
And I. I'm here for it.
I love it.
I love the way that thestory's told.
I think it's genius to have amovie written within a movie.
And we're watching this moviethrough the imagination of this woman
who this, this script waswritten to with.
(04:47):
Right?
And.
And done because of the.
The fact that she initiallywas attracted to this man because
of his creativity and thenusing that creativity to just put
her off guard and off centerand mess with her.
It's so disgusting.
And I love every second of it.
The fact that we get to gothrough this just twisted, dark story
(05:10):
through her imagination andhow it relates to her relationship.
So many wonderful things.
So I'm gonna stop therebecause there's so many things we
need to Talk about.
But was this the first timeyou'd seen this movie?
Yes.
Okay.
You've never seen NocturnalAnimals before?
I watched it like I told JJbefore we started recording at 6:30
this morning because I had towatch it.
I was not expecting the firsttwo minutes of the movie to be big
(05:33):
old titties.
I was not prepared at 6:30 inthe morning, half asleep, groggy,
just sitting on the couch andbig old titties.
Two and a half minutes ofnothing but big old naked women.
I was sitting there going, why?
Why, jj?
Why?
(05:54):
And then that's why.
Yeah.
And the.
The weird part was there'slike, no reason for it.
None.
Anyway.
None.
Like, she owns an art galleryand it's obviously some sort of,
like, live art presentation.
Yep.
But there's no reason for it.
(06:15):
They.
They just started their movie.
Yep.
For the.
The absolute, I will say Ifeel like this is the movie we get
when an English major isallowed to cross over into film.
Yeah.
This is very much in the samevein as like a Great Gatsby.
Yep.
(06:36):
Type movie.
Or these absolute mind.
Where, you know, the.
The curtains aren't just bluebecause blue curtains look cool.
There's reasoning, there's symbolism.
There's something behind everysingle look, every single section.
Which is great up to a point.
(06:57):
Because I feel like this moviekind of overdoes it in some cases
to the point where you'regonna lose a lot of people.
Sure.
Who don't comprehend anythingin that deep of something.
Like I.
There's parts of this whereit's really good and you can.
Aha.
(07:18):
But there is so many layers tothis movie.
Like you said, you just turnedaround and start rewatching it again.
Mm.
Like there.
You're almost doing yourself adisservice by making your movie that
deep.
Yeah.
To where you're just at that point.
It's almost like just to stop you.
You could have a phenomenalmovie if you didn't dive into, you
(07:41):
know, going so deep into thislittle subplot or this, you know,
turn of the page meanssomething or all that.
It's like, holy.
Like, I was like, this is great.
But the same time, I was like,oh, shoot.
Like, this is.
This is what I imagined.
Like, English class was right.
When you're talking aboutthese books that are.
(08:04):
Stood the test of time, thesegreat novelizations, and you're having
to list out all the symbolism.
And at, you know, young kid,you're like, the.
What is this?
Yeah.
And so at the.
The same time, that's likethis, that's what this movie is to
me.
It's like sitting in classreading the Great Gatsby and having
(08:24):
just four pages of descriptivedialogue that apparently is a secret
to internal life.
If we could only unlock the code.
Like, that's the level thatthis goes to and so forth.
And that's probably why Ihated the start so much.
Yeah.
Is the start doesn't play intothat at all.
(08:44):
No, no.
And I, I think it's sointentional to, like, get you.
Because it's like the firsttime I watched, like, what.
I'm like, you.
I was like, what the is happening?
Because you're like, it's immediate.
Like, as soon as there'ssomething on the screen and listen,
I'm a big fat ugly.
But so I, I, this comes from arelatability sense.
(09:05):
Like, you get theseunattractive, very large women dancing
fully nude immediately, and itjust disarms your ass.
You're like, wait, what?
Why?
What is going.
What?
And it just keeps going,swapping back and forth between these
two women dancing complet.
And you're like, what is why?
And it has nothing to do withthe film, but it sets you up that
(09:27):
once it gets going, you'relike, wait, what?
I think it's such a geniusdisarmament of all of your mental
faculties to set you up forthis mind of a heavy.
Just into your point.
Like, there's so many layersto this film.
Like, one of the things that Iwant to talk about right out the
(09:48):
gate is the visual.
Like, the visuals that if thefirst time I missed a lot of them.
Okay.
But there are these visualsthat line up between her imagination
with the, the movie that she'swatching, for example, that when
they find the bodies of hiswife and daughter.
Right?
Mirrors what her daughtersmirrors her daughter.
Laying with her boyfriend in bed.
(10:08):
Like, I was like, oh, I didn't.
And I'll be honest, I didn'tcatch it the first time because I
was so wrapped up in the factthat we find out that his wife and
daughter are dead, right?
And you're like, oh, no.
And then, and then I start torecognize that the wife and daughter
in the book look exactly likethe wife and daughter in real or
the wife and daughter in real life.
And then you find out it'sjust like all these layers of pieces,
(10:31):
but then that visual.
And there's two or three ofthem where the visuals line up real
close and you're like, oh,God, he knows exactly how to just
mess with it.
And visually, you get intothis Film and you start to almost,
at least I did like, what'spart of the movie and what's part
of real life?
And I'm like, jesus, this is wild.
And then you have the wholefact that again, it's coming from
(10:54):
the imagination.
Because when we readsomething, it's very different than
watching a movie.
Which is why I love books somuch and I love movies.
We all know that.
But I.
There's a dichotomy there thatyou have to pay attention to.
Books allow you to create thevisualizations in your head and so
you can go wherever you wantto with it within the parameters
of what you're reading andwhat your imagination can do.
(11:15):
Movies give you.
And they, they evoke a lot ofcreativity and a lot of imagination,
but they're within a very set,confined area because the.
It's visual.
It's a visual medium.
And so watching her read thisnovel or this script rather, and
then the movie that we'rewatching becomes her imagination
(11:38):
and how she's picturing it.
So we don't know if he wrote it.
I mean, obviously he probablyexplained what they look like.
Maybe.
I don't know.
Because in a lot of scripts,if you've ever read a script script,
they do have some, you know,level of.
Hey, this woman, she'sredheaded, scar over the left eye.
Yeah.
But it's usually like just alist of character traits you have
(12:00):
to piece together or theypiece it together in casting what
they actually look like.
Right.
But so in my head I'm like,okay, so she is visualizing these
people to look like her andlook like her daughter.
And then the main character isher ex husband.
Right.
So it's like, did he write itthat way?
We don't know because we don'tsee the.
The actual scripting in most.
(12:22):
We see little pieces of it,but not enough to understand.
Or is this.
He's just written it in a waythat she can't help but visualize
themselves or versions of themselves.
Right.
And I love that just again,it's so diabolical and it's on a
level again, we go down allthese layers.
It's on a level to go.
This man understood her sowell that he knew exactly how to
(12:45):
with her, that she stays upall night, that she's going to read
through the night.
It's going to impact her daily life.
It's going to get into herskin and it's going to be this little
parasite in her mind that shecan't stop thinking about and cause
her to Reach out, which we'llget to later.
But like, God, I love this.
Just the.
To your point, though, they dogo, this movie's not for everybody.
(13:06):
Like, you have to have adegenerate like me or even like you
to be like, I love the layers.
I love that I have to turnaround and re watch this film.
I love that every time I watchthis movie, I pick up on something
different.
I love that.
But not everybody does, so it's.
You got to be prepared.
Well, to your point, like, Ithink he 100% wrote this for her
(13:29):
because, like, they're even,they're even driving through West
Texas.
Yeah, like, they're both from Texas.
Like, I. I don't know if Ididn't catch if it was mentioned
anywhere, but I would bet thatthe Mercedes was the car that he
owned at one point in time.
And so you have this kind oflike, I. I'm 100 sure.
Because at the same time thatyou're going through this, he's like,
(13:53):
in my mind, when I waswatching it, up to about halfway,
I was thinking, oh, this ishis story.
Like, he's.
Because.
And then when they mention.
When she's like critiquing hiswriting before they break up or whatever
it is, and she goes, you onlywrite about yourself.
I was like, no.
2 on the nose.
They wouldn't do that.
Yeah.
(14:13):
And so it's not about him, butup until that point, I was thinking,
oh, this is just his story.
Like he found something towrite about, which was, you know,
the story that happened to himwith a new wife, new kid, or whatever
it may be after he moved on,or she moved on from him.
And so there's that, but thenthere's just the.
(14:33):
Like you said, there's so manygoddamn layers.
Like, even to the point where,you know, we were at the beginning,
right?
And they're packing up becausethey're going broke.
Big house, all this stuff.
Art gallery owner, businessowner, or business executive, whatever
it may be, going broke.
And she left the comfortableHallmark guy to go to this high powered
thing and then still lost it.
(14:55):
All right?
So she takes her mom's advicepretty much, which is, what are you
doing?
In a couple years, you're notgonna want this.
You think you want it nowyou're not gonna want it.
She gets to that point, she agrees.
She goes to the high powerkind of lifestyle, hates it or just
becomes disillusioned with it.
So much so that it reallycranks up when she starts reading
(15:18):
this book, right?
She starts second guessing,like all of her decisions that she's
doing, she's changing the waythat she operates because of a book
that her ex wrote.
And she's starting to almosthave these regrets of like, her entire
life from that point, which is just.
It's.
It's that it's the light.
(15:39):
There's no other way to put it.
Like in.
It goes to just, you know,the, the perfect revenge story is
she's now pretty much ruinedfrom that standpoint is, you know,
it's.
You've got that parasite likeyou were talking about that.
Yeah, that parasite's in herbrain now and it's just gonna be
working.
And they're working in there.
(15:59):
Like there is.
There is no coming back from this.
Yeah.
And it is, it is amazing.
But it's.
It's to the point, like, youcould do that with one, right?
You.
One little thing they did 47.
Yeah.
It's a little overkill to.
(16:22):
To the point where it's like,oh, yeah, everything's connected.
Right.
Do one, do two, you could evendo three.
But there's just hundreds oflittle sayings, phrases, just to
the point.
Like, I mean, it's.
It's great.
To the point that the peoplewho get it right and like that are
going to rewatch this movieagain and again and again and again
(16:45):
and again.
But, I mean, how many people?
But if you have the one or twotwists or the connections or stuff
like that, like, you couldreach this wider group of people
and still have a couple hiddenlayers in there as well.
(17:06):
But it was like, I'm sittingthere going, especially at 6:30 in
the morning.
I'm like, this is too much.
Exhausting, isn't it?
Exhausting?
It really is.
You got to be committed to watch.
And I think so.
It's interesting.
When I picked this film, I waslike, I. I thought about not doing
it because I worried about howMatson would react, because.
(17:29):
Not.
Because, like, again, I did itto mess with him.
Because I knew he would hatethe movie because it's so dark and
it's so.
To him it'll drag on becausehe doesn't catch the nuance of what
the conversations are leadingto and, and how this whole thing,
at least in my opinion now I'mspeculating, maybe he would have
gotten it and loved it.
I don't know.
I don't think so.
I know him well enough to knowhe would have hated it.
But like, I also thought about.
(17:50):
I was gonna put this on one ofour lists a long time ago when Javier
was part and I was putting.
I can't have Javier watch thismovie because that dude's the big.
I call him the Water Skeeter.
Like, he just skims the top of everything.
Like, he couldn't.
He would just.
He'd come in, it'd be like, what?
What?
I don't understand this movie.
And then I'm like, I spend thewhole podcast trying to explain it
(18:12):
to him.
So I was like, I can't do this.
So I knew if I had you here,like, we'd get some good conversation,
and then maybe Matt and thenMatson would just be, like, sitting
there eating when saying, Ihate this film.
The man of the people.
Don't watch this, people.
You and I would have a reallygood conversation around it.
But, like, I think it's one ofthe most underrated films.
(18:32):
To me, that's out there for anumber of reasons.
And I agree with you, there issome points where it's almost too
much, like, because they just.
They went.
And I. I give them credit.
They full 100 went for it.
They're like, we are gonnamake a very deep, very layered, very
dark, very grounded, even in acertain world movie.
(18:56):
And we're gonna connecteverything this is.
We're gonna make.
We're gonna take like, a.
An Ocean's 13 or an Ocean's 11and make it not fun.
This.
It's Ocean's 11 about.
With one person not stealinganything other than their soul.
Right?
Like, and.
And we're gonna watch how ithappens, and then we're gonna find
(19:17):
out at the end that this wasall a plot to get the upper hand
in this former relationship again.
Right.
And to get back your power, ifyou will, if that's one way to put
it.
And it's.
It's diabolical.
Dude.
That's the only word that.
That makes sense to me.
Fantastic.
But it's also so good from astorytelling perspective.
(19:37):
And then you add in the factthat they're the cast in this and
the fact that this movie isnot a hugely known, at least not
in the circles that I run.
And I know a lot of peoplethat watch a lot of movies.
A lot of them were like, ah,you know, I heard of it, but I never
watched it because it justdidn't seem like my kind of film.
And I'm like, dude, you got towatch it at least to say you hate
it and it's not your thing.
But I think it's super underrated.
(19:59):
And the cast.
And this is outrageous.
Like, I didn't even talk aboutthe Fact, Jenna Malone's in it.
Like I did.
Like, there's so many.
And a lot of them just havelittle bit parts, but their bit parts
add to this story.
Like the whole part with JennaMalone and the baby.
Like reminding her of her abortion.
Right.
And reminding her of thattrauma that came after the end of
(20:20):
the relationship and how shefurther this guy up without him even
knowing about it.
And it's like, what a layer ofgoddamn damage that she did to herself
and then unknowingly did toher ex husband.
And it's like, wow.
And then you have the moment Ithought of you, the jump scare moment
with the phone.
(20:41):
Oh, yeah, I jumped.
Oh, I did.
Because I peed myself thefirst time I watched it.
Because it's not a movie.
You're like, oh, there's goingto be a jump scare.
No, but he's like, oh, cute baby.
Yeah, like, oh, look, it's baby.
And it's got night visioncamera on it.
Oh, you look, there's NedStark as a young man jumping out
(21:04):
and making me pee myself.
You.
But yeah, like, it just.
God, the story is so good.
And the way that they tell itis so intriguing to me.
Like, I love the idea of.
And I keep going back to it,but like learning this story and
learning her damage and thethings that are.
Affect her in.
(21:26):
In a.
An emotional.
And the things that she'sreally kind of pushed down because
we get to a point like, and I,at least me.
And maybe it's just me, but Ihave that, like where I've been,
you know, things that have.
Were traumatic for me, like,they're there, they're always there.
Trauma doesn't just go away,but I tend to like, push it down.
And I'm like, I live my lifeand then I'll have moments where
it comes back up.
(21:46):
And watching this man send hera script that he knows is going to
resurface every bit of traumain this woman's life.
God damn, what a genius way totell a story.
And then for us to live itthrough her eyes and all that.
Like she's laying in thebathtub and you're like, she's up,
she's crying constantly.
(22:07):
And then you just take thiscast that just plays like, Jake Gyllenhaal
is a phenom in this movie andso is Amy Adams.
Because let's be honest, AmyAdams isn't in this movie a lot,
but without her, it doesn't work.
No, because every time we cutback to her after watching portions
of the script being Played out.
Her emotional responses arewhat make those things make sense.
(22:32):
After you realize what thepoint of it is and you're just like,
oh, and she does it so well,and it's so subtle, but it's so powerful.
And then, like, all the bitplayers that come into her life that
reinforce those reactions inthose traumas and like, oh, God,
it's just like, I could talkabout it for hours, the.
All the different pieces, butthe cast is outrageous.
Yeah.
For me, it's Michael Shannon.
(22:53):
Oh, so good.
Because he plays so well asthat, you know, Texas Ranger type,
you know, justice on the flykind of office that you do see in
books.
Yeah, you.
You see this all the time inbooks, but you.
You see a little bit onscreen, but very rarely.
Yeah.
Or it's.
It's played in a certain way.
(23:14):
And he does a phenomenal jobas paying the.
Playing this guy who's justlike, it, I got cancer.
We're just gonna go out on a.
On a high right here.
Yeah.
I don't got any reason not to.
Yeah.
Type of a.
Type of a deal.
And so he just does an amazingjob, you know, and it's the.
(23:35):
He's the one who sets up thetension moments for me.
Oh.
Because it's always the, youknow, hey, here's the gun.
Right?
Watch him while I'm going togo puke out my guts or whatever it
is.
So he's the one who's settingup all these tension moments in the
book to where you.
You're.
You're like, okay, it's gonnahappen this time.
It's gonna happen.
It's finally gonna be there.
(23:55):
And it's the.
The, you know, sitting on theedge of your seat, getting closer
and closer, closer.
It's like, no, that's not it.
No, that's not it.
No, that's not it.
But it's all.
He's the one who's setting upthese opportunities.
And then, you know, everysingle time we see Tony or whatever,
Jake Gyllenhaal not pull the trigger.
Right.
There's no.
None of that.
None of that.
You know what you'd imaginecoming from Texas law officer, which
(24:16):
is the.
What the fuck's wrong with you?
What's the matter with you?
You know how you pull this?
You're pointing your pool.
Yep.
It's a very kind of like,understanding almost of, all right,
let's try again.
Yeah.
And so then it's the sameexact thing over and over again.
So when you get to thatpayoff, it's a huge like, finally.
(24:38):
Yeah.
Because he sets up all thosetension moments and he does it so
naturally where you just.
It just makes sense.
So for me, he kills it.
Oh, yeah.
And then just stealing theentire show, even from Jake Gyllenhaal
in those things, which is notan easy thing to do.
Hard to do.
(24:59):
Oh, yeah.
Michael Shannon is up there asone of my favorite actors that doesn't
get enough credit.
He's another one that plays alot of, like, bit stuff.
And it's always.
But when he does it, like yousaid, even in this movie, like, he
steals scenes from theseheadliners and these.
A list that you're like, God,he's good.
(25:20):
And, man, does he steal it in this.
Like.
Yeah, I'm with you.
Michael Shannon is insanely good.
Another one that comes in forme from a casting perspective and
is only in it early and he'sin it for two minutes is Michael
Sheen.
That conversation that she haswith Michael Sheen, God damn.
That sets up the rest ofwhat's coming so good.
(25:41):
Like, you know, she's.
Because it gives the hint thatshe's already been thinking about
the regrets that she hasbecause she understands that her
relationship with ArmieHammer's character is not good.
And he's an.
And it was a marriage ofconvenience and to keep money involved
and to be set up and be ableto do whatever she wants versus having
(26:03):
that spark of creativity andenjoyment and love and, you know,
like, the difficulties thatmake relationships interesting and.
And she doesn't have that.
So anyway, like, I just lovethat brief conversation.
But to be able and I thinkgive credit to the casting and the
fact that they were willing topay money for this independent, ish
(26:23):
film to have these people init, because Amy Adams, again, is
a force of nature in this movie.
So you have to have peoplethat can play against her.
Like you have Laura Linney asher mom.
Jesus, Again, this is a majoractress that you have in it for two
minutes.
But that the importance ofthat conversation warrants a Laura
Linney and that conversationwarrants a Michael Sheen and later
(26:47):
on conversation.
That conversation requires agentle Malone.
Like, you have to have thesepeople that can carry the scene with
Amy Adams or this film doesn't work.
And so I really appreciate thefact that they were willing to pay
because, you know, it wasn'tcheap to get these actors in here
that are in there.
But be willing to do that sothat your film works is you have
(27:08):
an understanding of yourcontent at that point and what you're
trying to do and anunderstanding of the watchers of
your, your film.
There are some people that.
The only reason they're goingto be interested is because of these
people that are in it and inorder to be able to carry that story
through, man.
And they do so good at it.
But this is why I was gladthis one was never a question for
(27:28):
me.
When Amy Adams came up, it wasimmediately gonna go on my list because
God damn, she's good forsomething that you don't have to
do a lot for except react towhat you're reading.
God, she does so good.
So good.
I will say so the issue I havewith it, right.
It's.
(27:49):
It's like most of our issues,it's not real.
It's just me is I spiral.
Okay.
I went too far down the rabbit hole.
Yep.
And so you.
There's a, there's a line andit's kind of like a throw away line
where Amy Adams is talking.
She's like, oh yeah, you knowmy ex called me a couple years ago,
right?
She's talking about the book.
(28:09):
He sent me the manuscript.
Haven't talked to him a fewyears and he hung up with me.
And I'm like, that's when hestarted writing the book.
And is that the case?
Maybe, maybe not.
But that's the problem is nowI'm like over analyzing and gone
too far into it thinking that,oh yeah, no, that, that's.
(28:30):
She's the one who kicked offher own revenge plot story that's
coming against her, ruiningher life.
She kicked it off a coupleyears ago by reaching out to the
guy that she, you know, ruinedpretty much.
And it could have beenwhatever reason, but all the bad
in her life has led up to thispoint and now it's just coming.
We're seeing the climax of it.
(28:50):
It all was started by herbecause she, you know, was longing
for the good old days orwhatever it was and reached out just
to see how someone's doingthat you so crushed.
And he said thank you for the opportunity.
Ruined your goddamn life.
Oh yeah.
And so that, that's the onlylike gripe I have with it.
(29:11):
Besides, you know, the, thestart at 6:30 in the morning.
It just wasn't prepared for it.
But that's the only one isthat because of the way my brain
works is now I'm too far intoit and there's, you know, the, because
of those levels.
Like great, now I gotta gowatch a very depressing move.
Oh, like this is not a, likeby no means this a fun watch.
(29:33):
No, it's hard to watch.
There's very little, you know,bright side to it.
It just, it sucks as a moviefrom that kind of emotional standpoint
or it's not a. Oh, I had a badday at work.
I'm gonna go watch Nocturnal Animals.
That'll cheer me up.
But now it's like I have towatch it and watch it again because
what am I missing?
There's more to it.
(29:53):
So that's the diabolical partof it is that they have their own
revenge story that they justwrote for everybody who watches this
movie.
Yeah.
Now I've got a parasite in my head.
Yeah.
Just like she does.
Yeah.
Like off.
Yeah.
You took me on this journeyand now I've got these things that
I'm like, wait, what about this?
What about this?
Who is it?
Who made this?
(30:13):
Was it Todd?
Tom Ford.
Tom Ford?
Yeah.
Off.
Tom Ford.
Yeah.
Tom Ford.
You hate that guy.
No.
So to your point though, wegotta talk about the ending real
quick because a lot of peoplelike about the ending and I'm one
and we've talked about this.
I'm not always a fan of theopen ended ending and I don't like
(30:37):
them typically because they'renot usually done well enough that
I care about it.
This one is not that.
This one is so good becausethere's so many ways to interpret
it.
Even some people are like,well, I think he died like his character
did.
And I'm like, but he sent theemail a couple days ago, etc.
(30:59):
I was like, so I don't thinkthat's it.
And get where you're coming from.
But what I think is like, it'sthe ultimate finish to this revenge.
Right?
Like he's set her up to get inher mind, get back in her heart,
get her to the point where sheremembers all the reasons that she
loved him.
And the creativity piece andthis dark and just like disturbing
but beautiful in its own right story.
(31:22):
This is what she wanted fromhim the whole time, you know what
I mean?
Like this crazy writing andhe, she brought it out in him in
the worst possible way.
And to your point, like, whendid this plot start?
Was it after the phone call?
Was it directly after the divorce?
Like, was it after that walkon the street where she told him
she was like, where was thisthat started it?
(31:44):
Or was it the whole thing?
And then the final cap on thisperfect revenge is to drag, get her
to initiate contact, a meetingthat could lead to something that
maybe somewhere, I'm sure foryears he thought about wanting.
And then to leave her high anddry and not even show up the final
(32:06):
you in the now I've got you.
Because now the table'sturned, right?
He's been obsessing over herfor how long?
Since they were divorced, right.
Had this relationship, heworked on it, he wasn't good enough,
blah, blah, blah, blah.
Now he writes the perfectmanuscript that's gonna get her,
that's gonna lead all the wayback to getting her what she wanted
and make her realize sheshould have stayed.
(32:27):
And then he's like, now I'm done.
I never needed you anymore.
I've moved past it.
I've had my obsession.
My obsession is now over.
Now it's your turn.
Because now you know, thisdoesn't go away.
Now the fact that he didn'tshow up, oh my God.
The, the bother that's in itbecause he now that parasite is,
is not just there, it has madea home.
(32:49):
And as long as he leaves,never says a word to her, it's never
going to go away.
Ever.
And I, I.
It's just so twisted.
And I love every second of itbecause now he has all the power
in this relationship or nonrelationship that he never had until
(33:10):
this moment.
And it just, to me, like Isaid, Ocean's Eleven in the darkest
possible way because he won.
And we just watched him win.
It's so up that I'm excitedfor him.
But yeah, I love the twistsand turns to get to the point that
you're like, he wrote thatjust to with his ex wife for the
(33:31):
rest of her life.
How up are you, dude?
And I'm here for it.
I will say what I would haveliked more.
Yes.
But that's because it's me, right?
Sure.
Yeah.
Because something was gonna happen.
She wasn't wearing her ring anymore.
She took it off for this dinner.
So.
Yeah.
But what I would have likedmore is because he kept seeing pictures,
(33:55):
you know, shots of her sittingat the table alone.
The shots of the door on thelast one.
I would have had him walkingout with his new wife.
Oh.
Whoever it may have been,because for damn sure he did not
come up with this on his own.
Yeah, he found somebody elsewho essentially, you know, fixed
him.
Right.
(34:15):
But it was, it's another womanwho's a driver.
It's a revenge story.
And have them walk outtogether from her point of view.
Oh, yeah, that's fair.
And I wouldn't have him look back.
I have her look back.
Oh, God, yes.
And so.
(34:36):
Because now you're just you.
I mean, the problem with thatand I want to kind of where I like
the ending went is becausethere is no closure.
Yeah.
Right.
For her.
She is left open.
And there's no closure for theviewer either.
But we know.
Yeah.
And so.
But from that point you stillhave that kind of.
It's gonna eat her up.
It is going to eat her up.
(34:57):
But you give her that closurewhich is almost, you know, could
be what she needs.
Yeah.
But I would have done thatbecause I'm a sick twisted and dude,
that is pretty.
Is the ultimate type of, you know.
Haha.
You.
I win.
Yeah.
Oof.
Oh, that's dirty, dude.
(35:18):
I like that.
No, I could see that because Ican see where like, especially where
she's sitting next to that window.
Just have them even walk byand the.
Yeah.
His new wife or girlfriend orwhatever is on the window side and
he's just looking straightforward.
And the wife, like eyes aredown as they all my.
Because they knew she wasgoing to be there.
Oh, it would have been so up.
You know, she's there.
Just go.
(35:39):
Yeah.
And then you can just sit there.
And that's the, you know, thefinal kind of closure type thing
or the healing process for him.
Yeah.
And it's a giant royal you to her.
But at the same time it's alsolike it finishes off that thought
that it's never going tohappen again.
And so you.
You then give her that closure.
Which.
The way they did it I reallylike because it just, you know, you're
(36:00):
sitting there and then cut toblack and you're kind of like, what?
And the credits roll.
Ah.
Yeah.
Which I usually hate.
But in this movie I loved it.
I was like, it works.
Well, no, she didn't get anykind of.
Now she's stuck and she's got,you know, she's gonna go read that
book that script again.
Or even worse, it becomes afamous movie.
(36:21):
Like, oh.
Because that was the otherthing that I thought about.
How up would it be?
Is like as the credits arerolling, you hear like this newscast
of today on the top movies in America.
We see nocturnal animals belike, oh.
Like now it's just interface constantly.
But I thought that would havebeen a little kitschy.
So I do love the way that they end.
But that was another endingthat I thought like during the credit
roll you hear like themtalking about the fact that this
(36:44):
movie is blown up and it'slike the new great writer, you know,
you know, Tony or whatever hisname was.
I'm just like, that's up.
But again, I'm with You like?
I love that it just cuts the black.
Because then I go, oh, no.
So, yeah, fast forward alittle bit.
Maybe there's an after credit.
Is there a post credit scene?
(37:05):
There's got to be something.
God damn it.
And I waited.
Like, I sat.
I remember the first.
I remember very vividlybecause Casey was at work and I had
the day off, and I was like,I'm just gonna watch some movies.
And I was like, I like AmyAdams and I love Jake Gyllenhaal,
so let me watch this movie.
And I.
By when it got to the end, Iwas like, what?
And then I sat there for thewhole credits, like, thinking through
(37:26):
what I just watched, and go, Imissed a lot.
So then it got to the end, andit's like giving me, like, the.
What films coming next?
And I'm like, no, no, no, no,no, no.
Replay.
Rewatch.
And I watched the whole movieagain in this, like, twice.
And I went, wowza.
Brutal.
Brutal.
And I haven't watched it in awhile, so I was really glad that
(37:48):
when it came up, I was gonnawatch me, because I really do.
I think it's so well writtenand so well acted.
But, yeah, it is.
It's a lot.
It's not a movie you can watcha lot, that's for sure.
So.
Well, we're getting intorating things.
You want to rate it?
Let's do it.
Okay, here we go.
Oh, man.
Finishing out.
I'm giving a four and a half.
I. I think this movie enamorsme every time I watch it.
(38:12):
Every time I watch it, Iremember, like, why I love it so
much, and yet at the sametime, why I hate it so much.
Because it.
With me, like, when I watchit, like, I think about it for days
because I'm like, man, how upis that?
Like, could I do somethinglike that to someone?
Like, do I have the crate?
Am I smart enough and creativeenough to do?
(38:33):
And then I think, have I donethat to people without realizing
it?
Right?
Because a lot of times we haveour own little things where we're
like, I'm gonna do thisbecause I know it's gonna piss somebody
off.
Like, we pick movies to pissMatson off.
You know what I mean?
Like, every week.
Yeah, we do this all the time.
So it's just like.
And I can relate to that on somany levels that, like, I enjoy the
fact that this movie gets somuch reaction out of me, and it makes
(38:56):
me feel a lot of differentways throughout this film.
And that's a credit to thewriting to the acting, to the, the
way that this movie isdisplayed and played.
Like it's, it's really, reallywell done.
If you want to feel somethingand feel gross and feel elated and
feel scared and feeluncomfortable and if you like feeling
(39:18):
things when you watch a movie,this is one of the best as far as
that being able to do that to someone.
Now they're not great feelingsmost of the time but it'll also make
you think and it'll also make.
Give you some discussion topics.
And that's one of my favoritethings about movies is when I can
have a full on discussionabout all of it and go, man, there's
so many things to talk about.
So this movie has all that.
(39:39):
So four and a half.
I do think to your point thereis, it's a little much at times and
I think there are some piecesthat could have been cut down probably
by five to 10 minutes.
I think there was some overlong pieces.
Especially the quiet momentsof like Amy Adams.
Like I think we get enough ofthat in.
We don't need like the bathtubscene to last seven and a half minutes.
(40:01):
It could have lasted four minutes.
Right.
And that.
But that's me being nitpicky.
But I do think it's, it is alot and we could have used maybe
like some lighter moments tomaybe give you a breather.
I don't, I can't think of anymoments where I'm like okay, I get
to relax for half a second.
This movie just pummels youfrom start to finish.
I think the most light heartedpiece is the naked women dancing
(40:23):
up front.
And that's what it sets you up for.
This is funny and weird to.
Oh, this is heavy and dark andit never lets up.
So I think that's something.
I'm not usually one tointerject something for the sake
of it, but you could use abreather a couple times in this movie
I think.
So anyway.
Four and a half for me.
I will definitely watch thisbut it'll be a while.
I can't watch it.
(40:44):
I usually watch it twice in arow every time but then I don't watch
it for years because it hurts.
Like it's, it's rough.
It puts me in a weird placefor a while.
So there it is.
All right, Alec, your turn.
I'm also gonna be four and a half.
Kind of mimic what you were saying.
I do have the brains to do this.
(41:04):
What I lack is the commitment.
There is no way I'm writing afull page novel to.
With somebody I will do it ina much quicker way.
But that being said, oh, I amnot above my petty revenge.
Sure.
Just because it's Tuesday.
So yeah.
(41:24):
This movie for me though isone of those where I, I could already
feel it when I was watching it.
Like I'm going to be watchingthis again and I, if I don't stop
myself, I'm going to beabsorbed by it and look for those
connections, look for thosepieces of dialogue.
This is the, the almostperfect anti Alec movie because it's,
(41:47):
it's kind of like, you know,it will suck me in and I will be
consumed by it and be goingover, you know, have the, have the
map on the wall with the redstring correlating and nobody fucking
cares about it except for me.
There is nobody who's goingthis deep into.
And I will obsess over it forwho knows how long and then completely
forget about it.
(42:08):
So it's one of those weirdones where I, I have to stop myself
from going back and rewatching it because I know that I'm
going to dive head first rightinto it and not even bother looking
at the bottom.
But fantastic movie.
It's, it's not like we kind ofsaid before, it's not a fun movie.
It's not a good, happy, golucky, great feeling movie.
(42:31):
It is the exact opposite.
And I think if you take awaythe layers, you know, this, we're
talking about this movie inthe same vein as like, you know,
some of the movies we watchedon here.
Like a Pink Flamingos.
Yeah.
Up type of movie with.
If you take away those layers.
And so as much as I can, youknow, nitpick and gripe about how
deep it goes, that's, that'sthe difference, the layering is the
(42:54):
difference between this beinga really good movie and absolute.
Yeah, yeah.
Just some arbitrary thing.
Yeah, yeah.
And so it's, it's crazy to me,but that's the difference.
And so it's, it's a great movie.
I'll give it four and a halfand I will watch it again at some
point, but it can't be anytimewithin, you know, the next five years.
(43:15):
I just envisioned Alec in fullCharlie Cox mode with like hanging
out of his mouth, like tryingto explain it.
Why doesn't it make sense?
What's the correlation?
Where did it all start and connect?
I love it.
Yeah, yeah.
No, you're welcome.
And you're.
And I'm sorry.
All at the same time, like,and I, and I'd say I, you know, when
(43:38):
I picked it When I heard, whenwe were doing, when he sent and the
Matson was like Amy Adams.
Which is also ironic becauseAmy Adams was his choice and he's
not here for the whole month.
But when he's.
When he said Amy Adams waslike, oh, Nocturnal animals is going
on this list.
And I feel like those thatvote on our movies is gonna, are
gonna pick it.
I was like, and that's adangerous thing if Alec hasn't.
(43:59):
Because I didn't know if you'dseen it or not.
And I was like, if Alec hasn'tseen this movie, because it is right
up his twisted ass alley.
So I was really excited whenyou at the beginning, you're like,
I hadn't seen this movie.
And then I was like, oh, herewe go.
Because it's, it's a movie.
So there it is.
That's Amy Adams month.
Alec, tell everybody wherethey can find us.
(44:20):
Happy to Patreon's best placeto find us.
Where we upload all of ourmovie content creation, including
full episodes, behind thescenes content.
All that good stuff that thoseextra episodes are behind.
A little bit of a paywall.
You know, the money makerdoesn't come on you swear anybody.
But to vote on our content,which is kind of become our main
(44:43):
focus of the platform, to geton there, vote on what we're doing,
what month's categories arecoming in, and then the movies that
go into those months, it iscompletely free week.
So join us there.
What's our verdict?
Reviews Vote on the content.
We, we're having fun doingthese kind of one off months where
it's actors and actresses.
We've done, you know,different eras, different themes
(45:04):
before.
And so it's always fun becauseJJ and I are similar in our taste,
but we also like to with eachother and we both really like with
Matson.
So these movie picks are onone hand with stuff that we really
like or enjoy, or on the otherhand it's something that we know
is gonna find with somebody else.
And so get involved there,vote on our movies.
It means a lot to us.
(45:25):
Patreon's best place to do that.
And it's completely free tojoin up to vote if you do want the
extra episodes, you know,behind the scenes stuff, poking fun
at each other.
That's all behind a little bitof a paywall, but it's worth it.
There is over 550 clips,episodes, stuff like that.
So I think the access to thatis like a $99 or something along
those lines.
(45:45):
I think it's three bucks.
Yeah.
So I mean, it's well worththe, the investment for that to go
in there.
And you're getting a lot ofbang for your content buck.
Might actually be a dollar.
Nice.
But with that anyway, it's not much.
Yeah, it's negligible.
You can cancel Hulu and getthe same enjoyment from the what's
(46:07):
our Verdict podcast.
But with that, I'll kick itback to the maharaja of mash, the
titan of terror, a jj.
Nice.
Yeah.
Three, five and ten.
So three bucks.
There it is.
Appreciate you, Alex.
This is a good time.
Yeah, we got a fun next monthgearing up.
(46:28):
Votes are almost closed.
Made quite a few votes.
All right, Brad Pitt month.
So looking forward to September.
But yeah, as always, weappreciate you guys tuning in.
We'll catch you on the next one.
Hasta la vista, baby.
Cinemagic.
I was not prepared.
At 6:30 in the morning, halfasleep, groggy, just sitting on the
couch and.
Big old two and a half minutesof nothing but big old naked women.
I was sitting there going, why?
Why jj?
Why?
(00:25):
Welcome to the what's aVerdict podcast.
We fashion ourselves cinematicjudge and Jerry.
My name is J.J. crowder.
I'm here with my co host Alec Burch.
Us.
Let's get it.
We appreciate you tuning in.
Go and hit that.
Follow subscribe like Bell.
Notification buttons help youkeep up with all of our episodes
as well as helps grow the podcast.
So we appreciate that inkeeping with growing the podcast.
Go ahead, tell your friends,family members about us.
(00:48):
Normally I tell you to tellsomebody that's related, but I don't
think I want you to tellanybody related to this movie about
us.
Don't tell your friends orfamily about us with this episode
either.
Like skip ahead a week or skipback three weeks.
Yeah, this one.
This one might be a little.
This might get a little weird.
Gonna get really weird.
It's probably not a good firstimpression episode.
(01:11):
But if you're feeling frisky,go ahead and tell an art gallery
person about us.
Maybe a novelist that's outfor revenge.
I don't know.
You got choices.
But yeah, we're on the finalweek, week four of Amy Adams August
and yet another movie chosen.
(01:32):
This one wasn't quite fullychosen to mess with Matson.
There's other reasons behindthe choice on this, but it, it certainly
was a byproduct and a piece Iwas looking forward to.
So once again, Matson's newhouse, even though I'm sure he loves
it, and the fact that he hadto move because he's missing out
on a very well plotted movieto make him hate it.
(01:53):
And I don't know which one hewould have hated worse last week.
So this week's.
But we were going four for four.
Yeah, we were gonna get him zeros.
It's true.
He missed all of them.
It's true.
It's true.
So without further ado, we arereviewing Nocturnal Animals.
It was released December 9, 2016.
It was written by Tom Ford andAustin Wright and it was directed
(02:16):
by Tom Ford.
It stars Amy Adams, JakeGyllenhaal, Michael Shannon, Aaron
Taylor Johnson, Isla Fisher,Ellie Bamber, Armie Hammer, Carl
Glusman, Robert Aramayo, Laura Linney.
It keeps going.
Andrew Riseborough, MichaelSheen and Imogen Waterhouse.
It's about a wealthy artgallery owner who's haunted by her
(02:37):
expos?
Husband's novel, her Memoriesof their relationship and regrets
about their life.
Now that's a synopsis right there.
Nocturnal animals.
Sorry, Alec.
I picked.
Look, I'll pick this one fortwo reasons.
One, I've already talked about it.
To fuck with Madsen, because Iknew he would hate it.
Two, this movie got me thefirst time I watched it.
(02:58):
Like, I watched it becauseeverybody was talking about it and
I'm like, it can't be that good.
Then I watched it and I went,oh, fuck, this movie's wild.
And as I was, I had to rewatchit almost immediately.
So I watched it and went.
I was not mentally preparedfor what I just watched.
So I immediately rewatched itthe second time.
Like, I literally went.
(03:19):
Sat there for five minutesgoing, what the did I just watch?
And then I went, I gottarewatch it.
So I hit replay.
And I remember just sittingand just soaking this film up the
second time.
Because as much as I wouldhave loved messing with Matson with
this, like, this movie is amind of a movie with one of the,
(03:40):
in my opinion, some of thegreatest underlying revenge plot,
like this disgusting sickness.
For you to write a novel tojust get emotional revenge on your
ex wife for you up when shedivorced your ass and left you.
Like, and, and really it wasmore than that.
(04:00):
It was like the whole lifecycle of your relationship that then
ends in divorce and, you know,breakup, and then to just throw this
novel that you know is gonnawith her.
You devote it to her, you nameit after her, and it's just this
twisted ass story that's gonnamake her think of you and get like,
just nuzzle your way into herbrain like a parasite.
(04:24):
Oh my God.
And then we'll talk about the ending.
But like, Jesus, this.
And I was like, this is some diabolical.
And I. I'm here for it.
I love it.
I love the way that thestory's told.
I think it's genius to have amovie written within a movie.
And we're watching this moviethrough the imagination of this woman
who this, this script waswritten to with.
(04:47):
Right?
And.
And done because of the.
The fact that she initiallywas attracted to this man because
of his creativity and thenusing that creativity to just put
her off guard and off centerand mess with her.
It's so disgusting.
And I love every second of it.
The fact that we get to gothrough this just twisted, dark story
(05:10):
through her imagination andhow it relates to her relationship.
So many wonderful things.
So I'm gonna stop therebecause there's so many things we
need to Talk about.
But was this the first timeyou'd seen this movie?
Yes.
Okay.
You've never seen NocturnalAnimals before?
I watched it like I told JJbefore we started recording at 6:30
this morning because I had towatch it.
I was not expecting the firsttwo minutes of the movie to be big
(05:33):
old titties.
I was not prepared at 6:30 inthe morning, half asleep, groggy,
just sitting on the couch andbig old titties.
Two and a half minutes ofnothing but big old naked women.
I was sitting there going, why?
Why, jj?
Why?
(05:54):
And then that's why.
Yeah.
And the.
The weird part was there'slike, no reason for it.
None.
Anyway.
None.
Like, she owns an art galleryand it's obviously some sort of,
like, live art presentation.
Yep.
But there's no reason for it.
(06:15):
They.
They just started their movie.
Yep.
For the.
The absolute, I will say Ifeel like this is the movie we get
when an English major isallowed to cross over into film.
Yeah.
This is very much in the samevein as like a Great Gatsby.
Yep.
(06:36):
Type movie.
Or these absolute mind.
Where, you know, the.
The curtains aren't just bluebecause blue curtains look cool.
There's reasoning, there's symbolism.
There's something behind everysingle look, every single section.
Which is great up to a point.
(06:57):
Because I feel like this moviekind of overdoes it in some cases
to the point where you'regonna lose a lot of people.
Sure.
Who don't comprehend anythingin that deep of something.
Like I.
There's parts of this whereit's really good and you can.
Aha.
(07:18):
But there is so many layers tothis movie.
Like you said, you just turnedaround and start rewatching it again.
Mm.
Like there.
You're almost doing yourself adisservice by making your movie that
deep.
Yeah.
To where you're just at that point.
It's almost like just to stop you.
You could have a phenomenalmovie if you didn't dive into, you
(07:41):
know, going so deep into thislittle subplot or this, you know,
turn of the page meanssomething or all that.
It's like, holy.
Like, I was like, this is great.
But the same time, I was like,oh, shoot.
Like, this is.
This is what I imagined.
Like, English class was right.
When you're talking aboutthese books that are.
(08:04):
Stood the test of time, thesegreat novelizations, and you're having
to list out all the symbolism.
And at, you know, young kid,you're like, the.
What is this?
Yeah.
And so at the.
The same time, that's likethis, that's what this movie is to
me.
It's like sitting in classreading the Great Gatsby and having
(08:24):
just four pages of descriptivedialogue that apparently is a secret
to internal life.
If we could only unlock the code.
Like, that's the level thatthis goes to and so forth.
And that's probably why Ihated the start so much.
Yeah.
Is the start doesn't play intothat at all.
(08:44):
No, no.
And I, I think it's sointentional to, like, get you.
Because it's like the firsttime I watched, like, what.
I'm like, you.
I was like, what the is happening?
Because you're like, it's immediate.
Like, as soon as there'ssomething on the screen and listen,
I'm a big fat ugly.
But so I, I, this comes from arelatability sense.
(09:05):
Like, you get theseunattractive, very large women dancing
fully nude immediately, and itjust disarms your ass.
You're like, wait, what?
Why?
What is going.
What?
And it just keeps going,swapping back and forth between these
two women dancing complet.
And you're like, what is why?
And it has nothing to do withthe film, but it sets you up that
(09:27):
once it gets going, you'relike, wait, what?
I think it's such a geniusdisarmament of all of your mental
faculties to set you up forthis mind of a heavy.
Just into your point.
Like, there's so many layersto this film.
Like, one of the things that Iwant to talk about right out the
(09:48):
gate is the visual.
Like, the visuals that if thefirst time I missed a lot of them.
Okay.
But there are these visualsthat line up between her imagination
with the, the movie that she'swatching, for example, that when
they find the bodies of hiswife and daughter.
Right?
Mirrors what her daughtersmirrors her daughter.
Laying with her boyfriend in bed.
(10:08):
Like, I was like, oh, I didn't.
And I'll be honest, I didn'tcatch it the first time because I
was so wrapped up in the factthat we find out that his wife and
daughter are dead, right?
And you're like, oh, no.
And then, and then I start torecognize that the wife and daughter
in the book look exactly likethe wife and daughter in real or
the wife and daughter in real life.
And then you find out it'sjust like all these layers of pieces,
(10:31):
but then that visual.
And there's two or three ofthem where the visuals line up real
close and you're like, oh,God, he knows exactly how to just
mess with it.
And visually, you get intothis Film and you start to almost,
at least I did like, what'spart of the movie and what's part
of real life?
And I'm like, jesus, this is wild.
And then you have the wholefact that again, it's coming from
(10:54):
the imagination.
Because when we readsomething, it's very different than
watching a movie.
Which is why I love books somuch and I love movies.
We all know that.
But I.
There's a dichotomy there thatyou have to pay attention to.
Books allow you to create thevisualizations in your head and so
you can go wherever you wantto with it within the parameters
of what you're reading andwhat your imagination can do.
(11:15):
Movies give you.
And they, they evoke a lot ofcreativity and a lot of imagination,
but they're within a very set,confined area because the.
It's visual.
It's a visual medium.
And so watching her read thisnovel or this script rather, and
then the movie that we'rewatching becomes her imagination
(11:38):
and how she's picturing it.
So we don't know if he wrote it.
I mean, obviously he probablyexplained what they look like.
Maybe.
I don't know.
Because in a lot of scripts,if you've ever read a script script,
they do have some, you know,level of.
Hey, this woman, she'sredheaded, scar over the left eye.
Yeah.
But it's usually like just alist of character traits you have
(12:00):
to piece together or theypiece it together in casting what
they actually look like.
Right.
But so in my head I'm like,okay, so she is visualizing these
people to look like her andlook like her daughter.
And then the main character isher ex husband.
Right.
So it's like, did he write itthat way?
We don't know because we don'tsee the.
The actual scripting in most.
(12:22):
We see little pieces of it,but not enough to understand.
Or is this.
He's just written it in a waythat she can't help but visualize
themselves or versions of themselves.
Right.
And I love that just again,it's so diabolical and it's on a
level again, we go down allthese layers.
It's on a level to go.
This man understood her sowell that he knew exactly how to
(12:45):
with her, that she stays upall night, that she's going to read
through the night.
It's going to impact her daily life.
It's going to get into herskin and it's going to be this little
parasite in her mind that shecan't stop thinking about and cause
her to Reach out, which we'llget to later.
But like, God, I love this.
Just the.
To your point, though, they dogo, this movie's not for everybody.
(13:06):
Like, you have to have adegenerate like me or even like you
to be like, I love the layers.
I love that I have to turnaround and re watch this film.
I love that every time I watchthis movie, I pick up on something
different.
I love that.
But not everybody does, so it's.
You got to be prepared.
Well, to your point, like, Ithink he 100% wrote this for her
(13:29):
because, like, they're even,they're even driving through West
Texas.
Yeah, like, they're both from Texas.
Like, I. I don't know if Ididn't catch if it was mentioned
anywhere, but I would bet thatthe Mercedes was the car that he
owned at one point in time.
And so you have this kind oflike, I. I'm 100 sure.
Because at the same time thatyou're going through this, he's like,
(13:53):
in my mind, when I waswatching it, up to about halfway,
I was thinking, oh, this ishis story.
Like, he's.
Because.
And then when they mention.
When she's like critiquing hiswriting before they break up or whatever
it is, and she goes, you onlywrite about yourself.
I was like, no.
2 on the nose.
They wouldn't do that.
Yeah.
(14:13):
And so it's not about him, butup until that point, I was thinking,
oh, this is just his story.
Like he found something towrite about, which was, you know,
the story that happened to himwith a new wife, new kid, or whatever
it may be after he moved on,or she moved on from him.
And so there's that, but thenthere's just the.
(14:33):
Like you said, there's so manygoddamn layers.
Like, even to the point where,you know, we were at the beginning,
right?
And they're packing up becausethey're going broke.
Big house, all this stuff.
Art gallery owner, businessowner, or business executive, whatever
it may be, going broke.
And she left the comfortableHallmark guy to go to this high powered
thing and then still lost it.
(14:55):
All right?
So she takes her mom's advicepretty much, which is, what are you
doing?
In a couple years, you're notgonna want this.
You think you want it nowyou're not gonna want it.
She gets to that point, she agrees.
She goes to the high powerkind of lifestyle, hates it or just
becomes disillusioned with it.
So much so that it reallycranks up when she starts reading
(15:18):
this book, right?
She starts second guessing,like all of her decisions that she's
doing, she's changing the waythat she operates because of a book
that her ex wrote.
And she's starting to almosthave these regrets of like, her entire
life from that point, which is just.
It's.
It's that it's the light.
(15:39):
There's no other way to put it.
Like in.
It goes to just, you know,the, the perfect revenge story is
she's now pretty much ruinedfrom that standpoint is, you know,
it's.
You've got that parasite likeyou were talking about that.
Yeah, that parasite's in herbrain now and it's just gonna be
working.
And they're working in there.
(15:59):
Like there is.
There is no coming back from this.
Yeah.
And it is, it is amazing.
But it's.
It's to the point, like, youcould do that with one, right?
You.
One little thing they did 47.
Yeah.
It's a little overkill to.
(16:22):
To the point where it's like,oh, yeah, everything's connected.
Right.
Do one, do two, you could evendo three.
But there's just hundreds oflittle sayings, phrases, just to
the point.
Like, I mean, it's.
It's great.
To the point that the peoplewho get it right and like that are
going to rewatch this movieagain and again and again and again
(16:45):
and again.
But, I mean, how many people?
But if you have the one or twotwists or the connections or stuff
like that, like, you couldreach this wider group of people
and still have a couple hiddenlayers in there as well.
(17:06):
But it was like, I'm sittingthere going, especially at 6:30 in
the morning.
I'm like, this is too much.
Exhausting, isn't it?
Exhausting?
It really is.
You got to be committed to watch.
And I think so.
It's interesting.
When I picked this film, I waslike, I. I thought about not doing
it because I worried about howMatson would react, because.
(17:29):
Not.
Because, like, again, I did itto mess with him.
Because I knew he would hatethe movie because it's so dark and
it's so.
To him it'll drag on becausehe doesn't catch the nuance of what
the conversations are leadingto and, and how this whole thing,
at least in my opinion now I'mspeculating, maybe he would have
gotten it and loved it.
I don't know.
I don't think so.
I know him well enough to knowhe would have hated it.
But like, I also thought about.
(17:50):
I was gonna put this on one ofour lists a long time ago when Javier
was part and I was putting.
I can't have Javier watch thismovie because that dude's the big.
I call him the Water Skeeter.
Like, he just skims the top of everything.
Like, he couldn't.
He would just.
He'd come in, it'd be like, what?
What?
I don't understand this movie.
And then I'm like, I spend thewhole podcast trying to explain it
(18:12):
to him.
So I was like, I can't do this.
So I knew if I had you here,like, we'd get some good conversation,
and then maybe Matt and thenMatson would just be, like, sitting
there eating when saying, Ihate this film.
The man of the people.
Don't watch this, people.
You and I would have a reallygood conversation around it.
But, like, I think it's one ofthe most underrated films.
(18:32):
To me, that's out there for anumber of reasons.
And I agree with you, there issome points where it's almost too
much, like, because they just.
They went.
And I. I give them credit.
They full 100 went for it.
They're like, we are gonnamake a very deep, very layered, very
dark, very grounded, even in acertain world movie.
(18:56):
And we're gonna connecteverything this is.
We're gonna make.
We're gonna take like, a.
An Ocean's 13 or an Ocean's 11and make it not fun.
This.
It's Ocean's 11 about.
With one person not stealinganything other than their soul.
Right?
Like, and.
And we're gonna watch how ithappens, and then we're gonna find
(19:17):
out at the end that this wasall a plot to get the upper hand
in this former relationship again.
Right.
And to get back your power, ifyou will, if that's one way to put
it.
And it's.
It's diabolical.
Dude.
That's the only word that.
That makes sense to me.
Fantastic.
But it's also so good from astorytelling perspective.
(19:37):
And then you add in the factthat they're the cast in this and
the fact that this movie isnot a hugely known, at least not
in the circles that I run.
And I know a lot of peoplethat watch a lot of movies.
A lot of them were like, ah,you know, I heard of it, but I never
watched it because it justdidn't seem like my kind of film.
And I'm like, dude, you got towatch it at least to say you hate
it and it's not your thing.
But I think it's super underrated.
(19:59):
And the cast.
And this is outrageous.
Like, I didn't even talk aboutthe Fact, Jenna Malone's in it.
Like I did.
Like, there's so many.
And a lot of them just havelittle bit parts, but their bit parts
add to this story.
Like the whole part with JennaMalone and the baby.
Like reminding her of her abortion.
Right.
And reminding her of thattrauma that came after the end of
(20:20):
the relationship and how shefurther this guy up without him even
knowing about it.
And it's like, what a layer ofgoddamn damage that she did to herself
and then unknowingly did toher ex husband.
And it's like, wow.
And then you have the moment Ithought of you, the jump scare moment
with the phone.
(20:41):
Oh, yeah, I jumped.
Oh, I did.
Because I peed myself thefirst time I watched it.
Because it's not a movie.
You're like, oh, there's goingto be a jump scare.
No, but he's like, oh, cute baby.
Yeah, like, oh, look, it's baby.
And it's got night visioncamera on it.
Oh, you look, there's NedStark as a young man jumping out
(21:04):
and making me pee myself.
You.
But yeah, like, it just.
God, the story is so good.
And the way that they tell itis so intriguing to me.
Like, I love the idea of.
And I keep going back to it,but like learning this story and
learning her damage and thethings that are.
Affect her in.
(21:26):
In a.
An emotional.
And the things that she'sreally kind of pushed down because
we get to a point like, and I,at least me.
And maybe it's just me, but Ihave that, like where I've been,
you know, things that have.
Were traumatic for me, like,they're there, they're always there.
Trauma doesn't just go away,but I tend to like, push it down.
And I'm like, I live my lifeand then I'll have moments where
it comes back up.
(21:46):
And watching this man send hera script that he knows is going to
resurface every bit of traumain this woman's life.
God damn, what a genius way totell a story.
And then for us to live itthrough her eyes and all that.
Like she's laying in thebathtub and you're like, she's up,
she's crying constantly.
(22:07):
And then you just take thiscast that just plays like, Jake Gyllenhaal
is a phenom in this movie andso is Amy Adams.
Because let's be honest, AmyAdams isn't in this movie a lot,
but without her, it doesn't work.
No, because every time we cutback to her after watching portions
of the script being Played out.
Her emotional responses arewhat make those things make sense.
(22:32):
After you realize what thepoint of it is and you're just like,
oh, and she does it so well,and it's so subtle, but it's so powerful.
And then, like, all the bitplayers that come into her life that
reinforce those reactions inthose traumas and like, oh, God,
it's just like, I could talkabout it for hours, the.
All the different pieces, butthe cast is outrageous.
Yeah.
For me, it's Michael Shannon.
(22:53):
Oh, so good.
Because he plays so well asthat, you know, Texas Ranger type,
you know, justice on the flykind of office that you do see in
books.
Yeah, you.
You see this all the time inbooks, but you.
You see a little bit onscreen, but very rarely.
Yeah.
Or it's.
It's played in a certain way.
(23:14):
And he does a phenomenal jobas paying the.
Playing this guy who's justlike, it, I got cancer.
We're just gonna go out on a.
On a high right here.
Yeah.
I don't got any reason not to.
Yeah.
Type of a.
Type of a deal.
And so he just does an amazingjob, you know, and it's the.
(23:35):
He's the one who sets up thetension moments for me.
Oh.
Because it's always the, youknow, hey, here's the gun.
Right?
Watch him while I'm going togo puke out my guts or whatever it
is.
So he's the one who's settingup all these tension moments in the
book to where you.
You're.
You're like, okay, it's gonnahappen this time.
It's gonna happen.
It's finally gonna be there.
(23:55):
And it's the.
The, you know, sitting on theedge of your seat, getting closer
and closer, closer.
It's like, no, that's not it.
No, that's not it.
No, that's not it.
But it's all.
He's the one who's setting upthese opportunities.
And then, you know, everysingle time we see Tony or whatever,
Jake Gyllenhaal not pull the trigger.
Right.
There's no.
None of that.
None of that.
You know what you'd imaginecoming from Texas law officer, which
(24:16):
is the.
What the fuck's wrong with you?
What's the matter with you?
You know how you pull this?
You're pointing your pool.
Yep.
It's a very kind of like,understanding almost of, all right,
let's try again.
Yeah.
And so then it's the sameexact thing over and over again.
So when you get to thatpayoff, it's a huge like, finally.
(24:38):
Yeah.
Because he sets up all thosetension moments and he does it so
naturally where you just.
It just makes sense.
So for me, he kills it.
Oh, yeah.
And then just stealing theentire show, even from Jake Gyllenhaal
in those things, which is notan easy thing to do.
Hard to do.
(24:59):
Oh, yeah.
Michael Shannon is up there asone of my favorite actors that doesn't
get enough credit.
He's another one that plays alot of, like, bit stuff.
And it's always.
But when he does it, like yousaid, even in this movie, like, he
steals scenes from theseheadliners and these.
A list that you're like, God,he's good.
(25:20):
And, man, does he steal it in this.
Like.
Yeah, I'm with you.
Michael Shannon is insanely good.
Another one that comes in forme from a casting perspective and
is only in it early and he'sin it for two minutes is Michael
Sheen.
That conversation that she haswith Michael Sheen, God damn.
That sets up the rest ofwhat's coming so good.
(25:41):
Like, you know, she's.
Because it gives the hint thatshe's already been thinking about
the regrets that she hasbecause she understands that her
relationship with ArmieHammer's character is not good.
And he's an.
And it was a marriage ofconvenience and to keep money involved
and to be set up and be ableto do whatever she wants versus having
(26:03):
that spark of creativity andenjoyment and love and, you know,
like, the difficulties thatmake relationships interesting and.
And she doesn't have that.
So anyway, like, I just lovethat brief conversation.
But to be able and I thinkgive credit to the casting and the
fact that they were willing topay money for this independent, ish
(26:23):
film to have these people init, because Amy Adams, again, is
a force of nature in this movie.
So you have to have peoplethat can play against her.
Like you have Laura Linney asher mom.
Jesus, Again, this is a majoractress that you have in it for two
minutes.
But that the importance ofthat conversation warrants a Laura
Linney and that conversationwarrants a Michael Sheen and later
(26:47):
on conversation.
That conversation requires agentle Malone.
Like, you have to have thesepeople that can carry the scene with
Amy Adams or this film doesn't work.
And so I really appreciate thefact that they were willing to pay
because, you know, it wasn'tcheap to get these actors in here
that are in there.
But be willing to do that sothat your film works is you have
(27:08):
an understanding of yourcontent at that point and what you're
trying to do and anunderstanding of the watchers of
your, your film.
There are some people that.
The only reason they're goingto be interested is because of these
people that are in it and inorder to be able to carry that story
through, man.
And they do so good at it.
But this is why I was gladthis one was never a question for
(27:28):
me.
When Amy Adams came up, it wasimmediately gonna go on my list because
God damn, she's good forsomething that you don't have to
do a lot for except react towhat you're reading.
God, she does so good.
So good.
I will say so the issue I havewith it, right.
It's.
(27:49):
It's like most of our issues,it's not real.
It's just me is I spiral.
Okay.
I went too far down the rabbit hole.
Yep.
And so you.
There's a, there's a line andit's kind of like a throw away line
where Amy Adams is talking.
She's like, oh yeah, you knowmy ex called me a couple years ago,
right?
She's talking about the book.
(28:09):
He sent me the manuscript.
Haven't talked to him a fewyears and he hung up with me.
And I'm like, that's when hestarted writing the book.
And is that the case?
Maybe, maybe not.
But that's the problem is nowI'm like over analyzing and gone
too far into it thinking that,oh yeah, no, that, that's.
(28:30):
She's the one who kicked offher own revenge plot story that's
coming against her, ruiningher life.
She kicked it off a coupleyears ago by reaching out to the
guy that she, you know, ruinedpretty much.
And it could have beenwhatever reason, but all the bad
in her life has led up to thispoint and now it's just coming.
We're seeing the climax of it.
(28:50):
It all was started by herbecause she, you know, was longing
for the good old days orwhatever it was and reached out just
to see how someone's doingthat you so crushed.
And he said thank you for the opportunity.
Ruined your goddamn life.
Oh yeah.
And so that, that's the onlylike gripe I have with it.
(29:11):
Besides, you know, the, thestart at 6:30 in the morning.
It just wasn't prepared for it.
But that's the only one isthat because of the way my brain
works is now I'm too far intoit and there's, you know, the, because
of those levels.
Like great, now I gotta gowatch a very depressing move.
Oh, like this is not a, likeby no means this a fun watch.
(29:33):
No, it's hard to watch.
There's very little, you know,bright side to it.
It just, it sucks as a moviefrom that kind of emotional standpoint
or it's not a. Oh, I had a badday at work.
I'm gonna go watch Nocturnal Animals.
That'll cheer me up.
But now it's like I have towatch it and watch it again because
what am I missing?
There's more to it.
(29:53):
So that's the diabolical partof it is that they have their own
revenge story that they justwrote for everybody who watches this
movie.
Yeah.
Now I've got a parasite in my head.
Yeah.
Just like she does.
Yeah.
Like off.
Yeah.
You took me on this journeyand now I've got these things that
I'm like, wait, what about this?
What about this?
Who is it?
Who made this?
(30:13):
Was it Todd?
Tom Ford.
Tom Ford?
Yeah.
Off.
Tom Ford.
Yeah.
Tom Ford.
You hate that guy.
No.
So to your point though, wegotta talk about the ending real
quick because a lot of peoplelike about the ending and I'm one
and we've talked about this.
I'm not always a fan of theopen ended ending and I don't like
(30:37):
them typically because they'renot usually done well enough that
I care about it.
This one is not that.
This one is so good becausethere's so many ways to interpret
it.
Even some people are like,well, I think he died like his character
did.
And I'm like, but he sent theemail a couple days ago, etc.
(30:59):
I was like, so I don't thinkthat's it.
And get where you're coming from.
But what I think is like, it'sthe ultimate finish to this revenge.
Right?
Like he's set her up to get inher mind, get back in her heart,
get her to the point where sheremembers all the reasons that she
loved him.
And the creativity piece andthis dark and just like disturbing
but beautiful in its own right story.
(31:22):
This is what she wanted fromhim the whole time, you know what
I mean?
Like this crazy writing andhe, she brought it out in him in
the worst possible way.
And to your point, like, whendid this plot start?
Was it after the phone call?
Was it directly after the divorce?
Like, was it after that walkon the street where she told him
she was like, where was thisthat started it?
(31:44):
Or was it the whole thing?
And then the final cap on thisperfect revenge is to drag, get her
to initiate contact, a meetingthat could lead to something that
maybe somewhere, I'm sure foryears he thought about wanting.
And then to leave her high anddry and not even show up the final
(32:06):
you in the now I've got you.
Because now the table'sturned, right?
He's been obsessing over herfor how long?
Since they were divorced, right.
Had this relationship, heworked on it, he wasn't good enough,
blah, blah, blah, blah.
Now he writes the perfectmanuscript that's gonna get her,
that's gonna lead all the wayback to getting her what she wanted
and make her realize sheshould have stayed.
(32:27):
And then he's like, now I'm done.
I never needed you anymore.
I've moved past it.
I've had my obsession.
My obsession is now over.
Now it's your turn.
Because now you know, thisdoesn't go away.
Now the fact that he didn'tshow up, oh my God.
The, the bother that's in itbecause he now that parasite is,
is not just there, it has madea home.
(32:49):
And as long as he leaves,never says a word to her, it's never
going to go away.
Ever.
And I, I.
It's just so twisted.
And I love every second of itbecause now he has all the power
in this relationship or nonrelationship that he never had until
(33:10):
this moment.
And it just, to me, like Isaid, Ocean's Eleven in the darkest
possible way because he won.
And we just watched him win.
It's so up that I'm excitedfor him.
But yeah, I love the twistsand turns to get to the point that
you're like, he wrote thatjust to with his ex wife for the
(33:31):
rest of her life.
How up are you, dude?
And I'm here for it.
I will say what I would haveliked more.
Yes.
But that's because it's me, right?
Sure.
Yeah.
Because something was gonna happen.
She wasn't wearing her ring anymore.
She took it off for this dinner.
So.
Yeah.
But what I would have likedmore is because he kept seeing pictures,
(33:55):
you know, shots of her sittingat the table alone.
The shots of the door on thelast one.
I would have had him walkingout with his new wife.
Oh.
Whoever it may have been,because for damn sure he did not
come up with this on his own.
Yeah, he found somebody elsewho essentially, you know, fixed
him.
Right.
(34:15):
But it was, it's another womanwho's a driver.
It's a revenge story.
And have them walk outtogether from her point of view.
Oh, yeah, that's fair.
And I wouldn't have him look back.
I have her look back.
Oh, God, yes.
And so.
(34:36):
Because now you're just you.
I mean, the problem with thatand I want to kind of where I like
the ending went is becausethere is no closure.
Yeah.
Right.
For her.
She is left open.
And there's no closure for theviewer either.
But we know.
Yeah.
And so.
But from that point you stillhave that kind of.
It's gonna eat her up.
It is going to eat her up.
(34:57):
But you give her that closurewhich is almost, you know, could
be what she needs.
Yeah.
But I would have done thatbecause I'm a sick twisted and dude,
that is pretty.
Is the ultimate type of, you know.
Haha.
You.
I win.
Yeah.
Oof.
Oh, that's dirty, dude.
(35:18):
I like that.
No, I could see that because Ican see where like, especially where
she's sitting next to that window.
Just have them even walk byand the.
Yeah.
His new wife or girlfriend orwhatever is on the window side and
he's just looking straightforward.
And the wife, like eyes aredown as they all my.
Because they knew she wasgoing to be there.
Oh, it would have been so up.
You know, she's there.
Just go.
(35:39):
Yeah.
And then you can just sit there.
And that's the, you know, thefinal kind of closure type thing
or the healing process for him.
Yeah.
And it's a giant royal you to her.
But at the same time it's alsolike it finishes off that thought
that it's never going tohappen again.
And so you.
You then give her that closure.
Which.
The way they did it I reallylike because it just, you know, you're
(36:00):
sitting there and then cut toblack and you're kind of like, what?
And the credits roll.
Ah.
Yeah.
Which I usually hate.
But in this movie I loved it.
I was like, it works.
Well, no, she didn't get anykind of.
Now she's stuck and she's got,you know, she's gonna go read that
book that script again.
Or even worse, it becomes afamous movie.
(36:21):
Like, oh.
Because that was the otherthing that I thought about.
How up would it be?
Is like as the credits arerolling, you hear like this newscast
of today on the top movies in America.
We see nocturnal animals belike, oh.
Like now it's just interface constantly.
But I thought that would havebeen a little kitschy.
So I do love the way that they end.
But that was another endingthat I thought like during the credit
roll you hear like themtalking about the fact that this
(36:44):
movie is blown up and it'slike the new great writer, you know,
you know, Tony or whatever hisname was.
I'm just like, that's up.
But again, I'm with You like?
I love that it just cuts the black.
Because then I go, oh, no.
So, yeah, fast forward alittle bit.
Maybe there's an after credit.
Is there a post credit scene?
(37:05):
There's got to be something.
God damn it.
And I waited.
Like, I sat.
I remember the first.
I remember very vividlybecause Casey was at work and I had
the day off, and I was like,I'm just gonna watch some movies.
And I was like, I like AmyAdams and I love Jake Gyllenhaal,
so let me watch this movie.
And I.
By when it got to the end, Iwas like, what?
And then I sat there for thewhole credits, like, thinking through
(37:26):
what I just watched, and go, Imissed a lot.
So then it got to the end, andit's like giving me, like, the.
What films coming next?
And I'm like, no, no, no, no,no, no.
Replay.
Rewatch.
And I watched the whole movieagain in this, like, twice.
And I went, wowza.
Brutal.
Brutal.
And I haven't watched it in awhile, so I was really glad that
(37:48):
when it came up, I was gonnawatch me, because I really do.
I think it's so well writtenand so well acted.
But, yeah, it is.
It's a lot.
It's not a movie you can watcha lot, that's for sure.
So.
Well, we're getting intorating things.
You want to rate it?
Let's do it.
Okay, here we go.
Oh, man.
Finishing out.
I'm giving a four and a half.
I. I think this movie enamorsme every time I watch it.
(38:12):
Every time I watch it, Iremember, like, why I love it so
much, and yet at the sametime, why I hate it so much.
Because it.
With me, like, when I watchit, like, I think about it for days
because I'm like, man, how upis that?
Like, could I do somethinglike that to someone?
Like, do I have the crate?
Am I smart enough and creativeenough to do?
(38:33):
And then I think, have I donethat to people without realizing
it?
Right?
Because a lot of times we haveour own little things where we're
like, I'm gonna do thisbecause I know it's gonna piss somebody
off.
Like, we pick movies to pissMatson off.
You know what I mean?
Like, every week.
Yeah, we do this all the time.
So it's just like.
And I can relate to that on somany levels that, like, I enjoy the
fact that this movie gets somuch reaction out of me, and it makes
(38:56):
me feel a lot of differentways throughout this film.
And that's a credit to thewriting to the acting, to the, the
way that this movie isdisplayed and played.
Like it's, it's really, reallywell done.
If you want to feel somethingand feel gross and feel elated and
feel scared and feeluncomfortable and if you like feeling
(39:18):
things when you watch a movie,this is one of the best as far as
that being able to do that to someone.
Now they're not great feelingsmost of the time but it'll also make
you think and it'll also make.
Give you some discussion topics.
And that's one of my favoritethings about movies is when I can
have a full on discussionabout all of it and go, man, there's
so many things to talk about.
So this movie has all that.
(39:39):
So four and a half.
I do think to your point thereis, it's a little much at times and
I think there are some piecesthat could have been cut down probably
by five to 10 minutes.
I think there was some overlong pieces.
Especially the quiet momentsof like Amy Adams.
Like I think we get enough ofthat in.
We don't need like the bathtubscene to last seven and a half minutes.
(40:01):
It could have lasted four minutes.
Right.
And that.
But that's me being nitpicky.
But I do think it's, it is alot and we could have used maybe
like some lighter moments tomaybe give you a breather.
I don't, I can't think of anymoments where I'm like okay, I get
to relax for half a second.
This movie just pummels youfrom start to finish.
I think the most light heartedpiece is the naked women dancing
(40:23):
up front.
And that's what it sets you up for.
This is funny and weird to.
Oh, this is heavy and dark andit never lets up.
So I think that's something.
I'm not usually one tointerject something for the sake
of it, but you could use abreather a couple times in this movie
I think.
So anyway.
Four and a half for me.
I will definitely watch thisbut it'll be a while.
I can't watch it.
(40:44):
I usually watch it twice in arow every time but then I don't watch
it for years because it hurts.
Like it's, it's rough.
It puts me in a weird placefor a while.
So there it is.
All right, Alec, your turn.
I'm also gonna be four and a half.
Kind of mimic what you were saying.
I do have the brains to do this.
(41:04):
What I lack is the commitment.
There is no way I'm writing afull page novel to.
With somebody I will do it ina much quicker way.
But that being said, oh, I amnot above my petty revenge.
Sure.
Just because it's Tuesday.
So yeah.
(41:24):
This movie for me though isone of those where I, I could already
feel it when I was watching it.
Like I'm going to be watchingthis again and I, if I don't stop
myself, I'm going to beabsorbed by it and look for those
connections, look for thosepieces of dialogue.
This is the, the almostperfect anti Alec movie because it's,
(41:47):
it's kind of like, you know,it will suck me in and I will be
consumed by it and be goingover, you know, have the, have the
map on the wall with the redstring correlating and nobody fucking
cares about it except for me.
There is nobody who's goingthis deep into.
And I will obsess over it forwho knows how long and then completely
forget about it.
(42:08):
So it's one of those weirdones where I, I have to stop myself
from going back and rewatching it because I know that I'm
going to dive head first rightinto it and not even bother looking
at the bottom.
But fantastic movie.
It's, it's not like we kind ofsaid before, it's not a fun movie.
It's not a good, happy, golucky, great feeling movie.
(42:31):
It is the exact opposite.
And I think if you take awaythe layers, you know, this, we're
talking about this movie inthe same vein as like, you know,
some of the movies we watchedon here.
Like a Pink Flamingos.
Yeah.
Up type of movie with.
If you take away those layers.
And so as much as I can, youknow, nitpick and gripe about how
deep it goes, that's, that'sthe difference, the layering is the
(42:54):
difference between this beinga really good movie and absolute.
Yeah, yeah.
Just some arbitrary thing.
Yeah, yeah.
And so it's, it's crazy to me,but that's the difference.
And so it's, it's a great movie.
I'll give it four and a halfand I will watch it again at some
point, but it can't be anytimewithin, you know, the next five years.
(43:15):
I just envisioned Alec in fullCharlie Cox mode with like hanging
out of his mouth, like tryingto explain it.
Why doesn't it make sense?
What's the correlation?
Where did it all start and connect?
I love it.
Yeah, yeah.
No, you're welcome.
And you're.
And I'm sorry.
All at the same time, like,and I, and I'd say I, you know, when
(43:38):
I picked it When I heard, whenwe were doing, when he sent and the
Matson was like Amy Adams.
Which is also ironic becauseAmy Adams was his choice and he's
not here for the whole month.
But when he's.
When he said Amy Adams waslike, oh, Nocturnal animals is going
on this list.
And I feel like those thatvote on our movies is gonna, are
gonna pick it.
I was like, and that's adangerous thing if Alec hasn't.
(43:59):
Because I didn't know if you'dseen it or not.
And I was like, if Alec hasn'tseen this movie, because it is right
up his twisted ass alley.
So I was really excited whenyou at the beginning, you're like,
I hadn't seen this movie.
And then I was like, oh, herewe go.
Because it's, it's a movie.
So there it is.
That's Amy Adams month.
Alec, tell everybody wherethey can find us.
(44:20):
Happy to Patreon's best placeto find us.
Where we upload all of ourmovie content creation, including
full episodes, behind thescenes content.
All that good stuff that thoseextra episodes are behind.
A little bit of a paywall.
You know, the money makerdoesn't come on you swear anybody.
But to vote on our content,which is kind of become our main
(44:43):
focus of the platform, to geton there, vote on what we're doing,
what month's categories arecoming in, and then the movies that
go into those months, it iscompletely free week.
So join us there.
What's our verdict?
Reviews Vote on the content.
We, we're having fun doingthese kind of one off months where
it's actors and actresses.
We've done, you know,different eras, different themes
(45:04):
before.
And so it's always fun becauseJJ and I are similar in our taste,
but we also like to with eachother and we both really like with
Matson.
So these movie picks are onone hand with stuff that we really
like or enjoy, or on the otherhand it's something that we know
is gonna find with somebody else.
And so get involved there,vote on our movies.
It means a lot to us.
(45:25):
Patreon's best place to do that.
And it's completely free tojoin up to vote if you do want the
extra episodes, you know,behind the scenes stuff, poking fun
at each other.
That's all behind a little bitof a paywall, but it's worth it.
There is over 550 clips,episodes, stuff like that.
So I think the access to thatis like a $99 or something along
those lines.
(45:45):
I think it's three bucks.
Yeah.
So I mean, it's well worththe, the investment for that to go
in there.
And you're getting a lot ofbang for your content buck.
Might actually be a dollar.
Nice.
But with that anyway, it's not much.
Yeah, it's negligible.
You can cancel Hulu and getthe same enjoyment from the what's
(46:07):
our Verdict podcast.
But with that, I'll kick itback to the maharaja of mash, the
titan of terror, a jj.
Nice.
Yeah.
Three, five and ten.
So three bucks.
There it is.
Appreciate you, Alex.
This is a good time.
Yeah, we got a fun next monthgearing up.
(46:28):
Votes are almost closed.
Made quite a few votes.
All right, Brad Pitt month.
So looking forward to September.
But yeah, as always, weappreciate you guys tuning in.
We'll catch you on the next one.
Hasta la vista, baby.
Cinemagic.
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