Saving Private Ryan (1998) vs The Thin Red Line (1998)

Alec, Mattson and JJ delve into the nuanced comparison between two cinematic masterpieces: "Saving Private Ryan" and "The Thin Red Line." We engage in a rigorous examination of their respective portrayals of war, narrative structures, and character developments. Our discourse highlights the contrasting approaches each film takes to depict the harrowing realities and moral complexities of warfare. We explore how "Saving Private Ryan" is lauded for its visceral opening scenes and intense realism, while "The Thin Red Line" offers a more introspective exploration of individual soldiers' psyches amidst chaos. Ultimately, we aim to uncover the deeper philosophical reflections these films provoke regarding heroism, sacrifice, and the nature of conflict itself.

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
What a way.
What a way to use Jared Leto.
Get him plugged.
First five minutes of thefighting, you know what I mean?
Like, because he sticks hishead up too far.
Welcome to the what's up eric podcast.
We fashion ourselves cinematicjudge and jury.

(00:20):
My name is J.J.
crowder.
I'm here with my co hosts Matt.
Zenider, better red than deadand Alec burgess.
Let's get it.
We appreciate you tuning in.
Go and hit that.
Follow subscribe like bellnotification buttons.
Tell a friend about us.
Tell a family member about us.
Tell a soldier about us or abunch of them.
We like our.
Our veterans and appreciatetheir service.

(00:43):
We are neck deep in week four,the final week of our month.
Great choice.
I was always obsessed withthat song when I was a kid.
Come to find out, it's reallynot a great song, but God damn, is
it catchy.
But yeah, let's.

(01:03):
Let's jump into the final weekof our arbitration month where we
compare similar movies, twinmovies, however you want to decide
on them.
But yeah, we're in the finalweek and we're.
We're.
We're going big and we're.
We're going home at this point.
So let's look at it.
Those watching, you'll get tosee this.
Those listening, brace yourears because we're about to get some

(01:24):
music.
But here we go.
Yeah, some serious bass.
Serious bass.
That's.
I'm sad.
It's kind of our last oneuntil we decide to do arbitrations
again.
But yeah, we're doing SavingPrivate Ryan versus the Thin Red
Line.

(01:45):
Saving Private Ryan wasreleased July 24, 1998.
It was written by Robert rodat.
It was directed by Steven spielberg.
Stars tom hanks, Matt damon,Tom sizemore, Edward burns, Barry
pepper, Adam goldberg, Vindiesel, giovanna rabisi, Jeremy davies

(02:05):
and Paul giamatti.
It was about following thenormandy landings.
A group of u.
S.
Soldiers go behind enemy linesto retrieve a paratrooper whose brothers
have been killed in action.
And that's going up againstthin red line, which is released
January 15, 1999.
It star was sorry, written byjames jones and terence malik.

(02:28):
It was directed by terence malik.
Stars jim caviezel, Sean penn,Nick nolte, Kirk acevedo, Penelope
allen, Benjamin green, MarkBoone Jr.
Simon Billig, Adrian brody, Icould keep on going and george clooney.
We'll stop there for the sakeof time and effort.
But the cast continues.
It's about a and it's anadaptation of James Jones's autobiographical

(02:51):
1962 novel focusing on theconflict at Guada Canal during the
Second World War.
Yeah.
So they're released very close.
They're considered twin movies.
Technically.
Thin Red Line didn't releasein 1998.
98 in a limited release andwent wide in January of 99.

(03:12):
Yeah, these were my picks, soI'll kick us out.
Look, these are two.
There was a time, and I stillhave some obsession.
I don't know if I call itobsession, but a fascination with
the wars of our history, likespecifically the Civil War.
But World War II is a closesecond, just because the massive

(03:33):
scale and the different venuesand the, you know, the theaters that
we were in when it came to,you know, the.
To World War II.
So, man, these movies arereally weird, and I'm gonna have
some hot takes throughoutthis, I think.
But Saving Private Ryan is oneof Casey's favorite movies, and she
wants to watch it all the time.

(03:54):
And I love it.
It's great.
There's a lot of great thingsabout Saving Private Ryan, but Thin
Red Line was one of thosesleeper movies for me that I watched
simply because it was about awar, and it was always undershadowed
by.
Or overshadow.
Sorry.
By Saving Private Ryan.
And so when I watched it, Iwas like, holy, this is insanely

(04:16):
good.
And very different from SavingPrivate Ryan, obviously.
But, you know, it's still awar movie, and there's still a lot
to be said about it.
I think the.
The big part for me, the partthat I am interested to talk a little
bit about that I'll mentionhere, and I'm sure we'll get into
it as we go through our topicsthat Matt will tell us about here

(04:37):
in a minute.
But I think the biggest thingfor me is Saving Private Ryan is
so focused on a group ofsoldiers trying to save one soldier.
Right.
And so you get to know thisgroup and the individuals that are
led by Tom Hanks's character.
And then Thin Red Line is more.
There's a lot of group, butit's more about some individuals

(04:58):
and how they're adapting tothe war and dealing with their position
within that war.
And I really like how itdisplays that and how it's different.
I will say that it does makefor a slower feeling movie.
Neither of these movies areshort, so you're.
You're in for a long haul,whichever one you choose.

(05:20):
So I don't recommend a back toback these sons of.
But I do recommend watchingboth of them.
So I'll kick that off thatway, and then I'll turn it to you
guys.
What you guys thought.
Before we jump right intotopics and comparing them.
I'll go.
It was interesting because I'dnever seen the Thin Red Line before

(05:43):
this.
And I liked the fact thatSaving Private Ryan is almost a very
romanticized telling of the story.
And I feel like a lot of thewar in Europe is a very romanticized
storytelling.
And the Pacific theater is theexact opposite.
And I think this movie, well,they both do a good job of, like,

(06:06):
telling the theater they're in.
And it's such a stark contrast.
What'S.
Going on and what's happeningto the soldiers who are, you know,
participating in this.
And so it was a.
It was a hard watch because Idid watch them back to back.
And I did the Thin Red Linefirst because I knew if I knew if

(06:27):
I died from boredom, I wouldbe able to cover it with Saving Private
Ryan because I've seen themovie several times.
Yeah, you get that 15 minutepick me up at the beginning of Private
Ryan.
Yeah.
So that's six hours of painright there.
It was.
It was a lot.
But I mean, it was.

(06:48):
It was also nice because it.
Every time I kind of watch the.
Any kind of war movie,especially World War II, I, like,
go on this binge.
And so now I'm halfway throughBand of Brothers.
Oh, I love Band of Brothers.
Band of Brothers, man, what a.
So it was like, it was nice togo back and revisit it because I
don't do it super frequently.

(07:08):
Band of Brothers is the onlyother thing that I would say is comparable
to Saving Private Ryan.
That scene when they're in thetown and that guy gets like an RPG
that goes to the window and hecomes out with, like, his bloody
stump and the glass shards.
Oh, my gosh.
Well, quick side note, sothanks, Alec.
But yeah, like, the Band ofBrothers would not have been made

(07:28):
if it weren't for the successof Saving Private Ryan because it's
the same production team thatdid it.
And really, Saving PrivateRyan was supposed to be more Band
of Brothers.
Ish.
But you can't make 50 hour movie.
So they took it.
Oh, yeah.
I mean, they tried, but yeah,without one.

(07:49):
I mean, that's.
Tom Hanks was a huge producerof Band of Brothers and so Spielberg's
great.
I, like, Alec, hadn't seenThin Red Line, which is a little
surprising because I've seen afair bit of war movies.
Like, I mean, people know.
I like.
I like movies like that.

(08:10):
Into Alex Point.
I totally agree.
I mean, the European theaterabsolutely was romanticized.
There's.
I'm trying to think of a movieeither that we reviewed on this podcast.
It was the one that I'm.
I wish I can remember what Iwas thinking of.
It's the movie I thought theThin Red Line was of like, oh, I've
seen this before.
I don't remember what's kindof to look it up.

(08:31):
But there was a stigma ofpeople that were fighting in the
Japanese theater.
Like it just wasn't as likerespected or kind of talked about
as much as well, soldiers kindof felt like it just went on the
same even footing.
So I thought that was interesting.
But a Thin Red Line, like gut reaction.

(08:54):
Oh my gosh, dude, it was slow.
It was so unbearably slow Ihad to break it up into chunks.
But as we'll talk about as Itexted Jay, the emotion in the realism,
like in what's funny is Save aPrivate Ryan is very realistic.
I mean it's complimented onbeing one of the most realistic war
films in filmmaking.

(09:15):
But the emotional realism of AThin Red Line is what I think will
stick with me.
Like there was, we'll talkabout some things that were portrayed
that really made war feel likewar and the burdens of it, not just
like the actual fighting, butthe personal implications of people's
lives and what was happening.

(09:35):
And I thought they did anamazing job.
And most of that was portrayedand came up because of the pace of
the movie.
So it's kind of a double edgedsword because I don't think you could
have had that land as well aswell as it did emotionally, unless
the pace was a little slower.
But at times, my goodness, itdid feel who it did feel some type

(09:56):
of brutal.
And then you've got SavingPrivate Ryan that has like the best
15 to 20 minute opening of a movie.
It's right there for the bestopening of a movie that I can think
of.
I mean in terms of a warmovie, I don't know if there's a
better like start to maybelike it's from the camera angles
to the, the sound to the justthe gravity of the situation.

(10:18):
If you care about history,like, I mean it puts, it's like you're
there, you're in the, the landamphibious vehicle and you've gotten
out.
Then you're just like, oh shizthis is happening right now.
Like this is going down.
And the reason that moviesticks out so much to me is I had
a chance to go to Normandy andI watched this movie like two days

(10:39):
before I got on a plane andwalking around, there's still bunkers
there.
Seeing all the, the massiverows of the crosses at the grave
sites, like the, the hill thatwent down, it really put the, like
the scene in question and justhelped you understand like dude,

(11:00):
they work on a shooting fishin a barrel and it is kind of a miracle
that it worked out the way it did.
Thank goodness for diversion.
Otherwise if they had known wewere coming, I don't think it would
have worked.
But then from, from that pointthe movie kind of is like a slow
downward decline of interestfor me.
There's still pockets ofscenes that I very much enjoy.

(11:22):
But it starts so fast and sogreat and it's so compelling and
then it just kind of likelulls off a little bit.
So that's my gut thoughts.
Nice.
All right, what are our topicshere, Matson?
Yeah.
Oh, right.
Well, let's.
We're going to talk aboutcinematic techniques and visual style.

(11:46):
We're going to talk aboutnarrative structure and pacing, portrayal
of war and its impact andphilosophical and ethical reflections.
Point number four is going tobe a hot and heavy one for this film.
But we'll get my dictionaryout to look up half.

(12:06):
I know.
So let's talk about thecinematography and like visual style.
Wow.
I mean it's kind of a.
That's a stark trendcomparison because they're very different
and yet there's some similarities.
I think once you get past theopening scene that you're talking

(12:27):
about in Saving Private Ryan.
Because that one, like thecinematography makes me.
I have to be careful becauseit does kind of make me nauseous.
Especially like on my huge television.
Like I get watching it andlike the fact that they're so close
to the ground in a lot ofcases and like it has a lot of the.
They Spielberg did a lot ofweird with some of the contraptions

(12:47):
that they used, the machinesthey used to film that because he
wanted it to feel like you'restorming with them.
The move, the motion gets me a little.
It's almost like not quitefound camera but similar vibe to
it to where you kind of feel alot of the movements in a different
way.
So you don't like it?

(13:07):
I don't dislike it and Iappreciate why he did it and the
visuals that it creates.
Like.
But I have to like watch itkind of side eyed because otherwise
like I love it.
I get most.
I've.
I've never seen it when, whenI first I was like, I've never experienced
anything quite like this.
I felt like I was getting offthe boat for real.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's what he was aimingto do.

(13:27):
And so when it came to that,he was very successful.
But I will say that it didmake me, like, still to this day,
like, I can't watch it.
I.
I will say that one mistakethat I feel like was made with that
movie.
And again, I understand why,because you can't film the whole
thing like that becausenobody's gonna watch a movie.
But every time there wasfighting, I feel like that transition

(13:51):
away.
And even if you hadn't done itin like.
Like that middle fight wherethey capture the dude and like the
whole.
Which I'm sure we'll talkabout with philosophical.
But, like, that whole scene,they didn't.
And then they didn't.
But then I think the finalfight, like, they should have done
it some, right?
Like, because again, we'reback to this ground level and I.

(14:13):
So I wanted to see a littlebit more of it.
It would have been a nicemirror from start to finish.
So I really like it.
But to your point, it almostfeels like once that first 15 minutes
is over, it's almost likeyou're watching a whole different
movie.
And so it's.
That is a little jerky.
And it's my.
One of my only complaintsabout this movie is that transition

(14:34):
from that opening scene.
That's crazy and puts you in areally weird place visually and,
like, on the ground.
But then it transitions awayfrom that and it just becomes another
war movie to me.
So that's one of my issues, Ithink, with Thin Red Line, though.
Like, what I like about it is the.
And I said this in my intro,like, the individualistic nature

(14:57):
of a lot of it, which we'lltalk about in the.
The, you know, pacing andthings like that.
But, like, I like that.
I feel like I'm connecting andI'm getting these different perspectives
in war based on theseindividuals that it's tracking.
And I love the fact that westart with a deserter.
Like, you know what I mean?
Like, to me, like, you'relike, oh, what's this guy doing on
this island?

(15:17):
Oh, look, the soldier's help, people.
And, oh, he's.
He's deserted.
And now they're pulling hisass right back into it.
Like, which I find interesting too.
But we'll get into that withphilosophicals as well.
I'll wait for that topic.
But yeah, so interesting forme, I.
I think they're similarenough, which was nice because of

(15:37):
the.
The fact that they're bothWorld War II movies.
But, yeah, there's mine.
I'll go, I mean, if we're, ifwe're going one over the other, I
still think Saving PrivateRyan takes the cake.
It was, it was so much more innovative.
I mean, I, I read stuff.
I know, like, veterans haveliterally said it's as close to sounding
like it sounded to lookinglike it looked, feeling like it felt.

(16:02):
And that's the highestcompliment that you can get.
Whereas then Red Line, there'snothing wrong with it, but it, it
felt like a, just another warmovie that was filmed and they did
a good job.
But there wasn't anything thatI felt was different than any other
war movie that I had seen before.
Saving Private Ride.
To this day, like, sometimesI'll just watch the first 20 minutes
and then I'll just stopbecause it's incredible.

(16:25):
Like, I, I, I'm trying tothink of a war, a modern war movie
since that has put me in thattype of situation where I really
feel like I'm a part of it.
I can't think of anything offthe top of my head.
Maybe I should be able to, butI can't.
So I just think, I mean, Savea Private Ryan.
It's the thing, like Isometimes just want to watch and
crank my sound system up andthat's the same thing.

(16:47):
It's funny we bring up Band ofBrothers because the same people
that made it.
That's thing that, those arehonestly two of the films that made
me.
I prefer sound over, over,like exceptional picture quality
always.
Like, I, when you can hearthe, it's like all coming around,
like, oh man, it takes me places.
And yeah, I just think it tome, Kate goes to Saving Private Ryan

(17:10):
for sure.
It's fair.
It's an interesting choicebecause if we're looking at the beginnings
of both films, you cannot havetwo more different beginnings.
One is Stormy Normandy in theMachine Gun Fire.
The other just some dude in acanoe in the South Pacific.

(17:32):
But I like, I like both of them.
It makes sense for whatthey're doing.
And so having this, like youwere talking about, JD this individualistic
view of pretty much what it'slike to be a soldier, right?
And not necessarily the, theooh ra type of like, but it's the,
the real human nature of beinga soldier during wartime.

(17:55):
And then on the other side,you have this dude, let's fucking
go, right?
And you're, you're, you'rethere and you're a part of it.
And so it's, it almost feelslike it goes either way based on
what you are in the mood for.
Or what you're feeling.
I mean, the fact that the ThinRed Line is.

(18:19):
Didn't really do anything toooutrageous or new or risky.
We'll say I'm giving the pointto Saving Private Ryan because nobody
in film school is like, here'swhat you do to make a good movie.
You're gonna take your cameraand you're gonna do everything except
hold it steady.
Yeah.

(18:42):
That's never in film school.
And so the fact that StevenSpielberg's like, you know what we're
gonna do?
Yeah.
We're gonna break every singlerule in the book and it works is
very, very cool.
So, yeah, I'll give it toSaving Private Ryan on that one.
Yeah.
I don't think you'll see itagain the way that.
And I say that for a couplereasons, but because of what you're

(19:02):
talking about, Matson, like,the fact that there have been a lot
of soldiers, veterans thathave said, this is as close to watching,
like, being in wars, you can get.
Like, you almost lose a wholedemographic because there's a lot
of people that have walked outof the film due to PTSD issues and
the fact that it.
What did sound and feel sosimilar that they couldn't like it

(19:22):
brought up and so theycouldn't watch it.
So you almost lose a wholedemographic of viewers.
And I hate to put it in abusiness sense, but it's true.
And I don't think.
So.
I don't think you'll ever seethat tactic used in this kind of
a war film again, because you're.
You're encouraging yourveteran audience to not watch it
at all.

(19:42):
Which I think most war movies,they probably.
It's not like I don't have afew friends that are vets, and I.
It's not like they're like,yeah, let's go watch a war movie.
Like, that's the last thingthey want to watch.
You know what I mean?
Like, it's like my wife, as atherapist, the last thing she wants
to watch is some, like, dramaabout the stuff she cancels every
day.
Like, yeah, let's not do that.
Something happy.
Yeah, exactly.

(20:03):
Yeah.
Yeah.
All right, narrative structureand pacing.
Oh, man.
Who's going first on this one?
You go first.
You seem to have it allfigured out.
I.
I really don't.
I.
This one's hard for mebecause, like I said, I mean, the
easy answer for me is SavingPrivate Brian, just because it's

(20:26):
much more of a linear storyand, like, a progression that I think
it has a more definedbeginning and end.
To an extent where A Thin RedLine is much more complex than the
narratives that are interwovenbetween moments in the movie that
are shown.
Man.
I think, like, when I thinkabout how they structured A Thin

(20:50):
Red Line, I like a lot of theindividual stories, but then sometimes
it's.
At least.
It left me at timesquestioning where we were going with
this and what they wanted meto take away from it.
At times, because it was soslower, I wanted it to play out a
little bit faster.
Where Saving Private Ryan, itwas clear what was going on, what
was happening, and what neededto be done.

(21:11):
But at times I was lesscompelled on, like, how they were
getting it done.
Pacing is.
Let's just call it what it is.
It's rough for both of them.
If I had to give a pacinggrade for both, I'd probably give
them, like, close to an F, maybe.
Thin Red Line probably wouldlose a little bit more just because,
oh, my gosh, dude, I've neverlooked at my watch so many times.

(21:32):
I don't even wear a watch.
But, like, which one do Iprefer more?
I like the narrative of A ThinRed Line a little bit more.
I liked the different storiesand how it culminated into the message
that they were trying to giveat the end about war isn't glamorous.

(21:54):
It's tough.
And it's tough for all thesedifferent reasons.
And you kind of have to makeit what it is for you to find sanity.
Where Saving Private Ryan, thenarrative structure is more so just
like, look, we have thismission, we have this goal.
We need to get it done.
There's nothing wrong with that.
But I think I enjoyed theindividual narratives of A Thin Red
Line a little bit more.

(22:14):
But the pacing of SavingPrivate Ryan Wallet sucked.
It sucked far less than ThinRed Line.
Fair enough.
What about you, Alec?
See, now, similar to Matson,it's rough because aside from the
opening with Saving PrivateRyan, the remainder of the film is,

(22:38):
like, at best, mediocre interms of narrative and pacing.
And it's unfortunate that itcomes after the best part of the
movie because, like, I was thefirst town that they go through where
they, like, meet Paul Giamatti.
Like, at that point, you.

(22:58):
It almost feels like that'swhere the movie should have started.
And then you realize thatyou're in for the whole rest of the
movie because it just drops off.
And so now you almost have toreset yourself, regather, refocus,
as you're now absorbing awhole new narrative, which is way

(23:19):
different than the start.
And what you're kind of led toexpect or believe.
And that is much trickier forme to deal with than it is with something
like Thin Red Line where itstays pretty consistent in the fact
that it has no consistency andyou're going back and forth and you're
jumping between narratives.
And so I'm gonna give it tothe thinner line as well for that

(23:43):
one.
Yeah, this one's an easychoice for me with Thin Red Line
winning this one.
And I think Saving PrivateRyan does two things that I think
make me struggle with its narrative.
One is to kind of what Alecwas talking about and even what we've
mentioned.
The first 20 minutes are likeI remember seeing this in the theater

(24:03):
going as a 17 year old kidgoing what the fuck did I just watch?
Like this was crazy.
And then I have to go wait,there's still a movie going on, right?
And I.
And then you have to resetyour brain to go okay, now I gotta
watch this movie about the most.
The ultimate plot MacGuffin ever.
Right.
And.
And so it's like to me it'swild how good.

(24:25):
I mean it's great movie and Ilove it.
And we'll score.
I'm gonna score really high.
But the problem is it again isbased on this wild plot McGuffin
that has foundations in truth.
Like there's a couple ofstories that you.
The Nyland brothers in is theone that it's most loosely betrayed
or portrayed about.
But there was another family,the Sullivan family.
Like if you've never heard ofthat one, that's one you should because.

(24:48):
And they didn't tell that oneor lucid on that because they were
on the Sullivan were on awarship in the South Pacific and
so they were in the Pacific theater.
Harder to tell that story.
Not nearly as easy to make itend well.
Right?
Or I shouldn't say end wellbecause let's say.

(25:09):
Let's be honest paving PRdoesn't end well.
It ends as well as it can.
That doesn't happen.
None of the Sullivans comehome in, you know, from South Pacific.
So it's one of those things.
There's a great song by a veryobscure band called Caroline Spine
if you ever want to hear aboutthe Sullivans.
So very interesting.

(25:30):
Anyway the.
But with Thin Red lion likenarratively the character development
of each of these and then ontop of it like the little sub characters
that you see too that you getfull on development.
There's a reason savingprivate Ryan's three hours.
It's because we have 20minutes before the movie Ever starts

(25:50):
and then the movie starts.
And so now you're at a twohour and 20 minute movie.
That's normal.
Right.
Thin Red Line is three hoursbecause it has to be to tell all
the stories in a way thatgives you meaningful character development
and actually pays off thestories that we're getting involved
in.
And it actually has a start tofinish with those.
So it's two very different.

(26:11):
I think comparing andcontrasting this is the biggest difference
between those two movies isthe storytelling and the narrative.
And so I.
Well, I love Saving Private Ryan.
I think din Red Line takesthis one hands down because of the
different perspectives that it gives.
And then the.
I mean, you could even.
I guess you could call it aredemption arc, even though it's
not really.

(26:32):
I mean, it's just interestingto watch those.
So this one.
Yeah, definitely Thin Red lineon that one for me.
Okay, well, we're gonna.
Number three is portrayal ofwar and realism.
We've talked a little bitabout the realism already in our
first topic, but I want totalk about the.
The actual portrayal of warbetween the two in.

(26:54):
In how we think which film,like, did it better, did it worse?
I'm gonna.
When I say portrayal of war,like, we'll talk about like the weighty
implication, like more likethe, I don't know, the mental, physical
side of it, if that makes sense.

(27:15):
Yeah, I think there's a lot.
I think the physic, the.
What was it?
The philosophical discussionwill probably be the biggest.
Yeah, we'll get there on that.
It's across the board on that.
But I think from like anactual portrayal of the act of war.
Right.
Like the fighting and thingslike that, like this one's, I think
the most difficult for me tocompare the two.

(27:36):
And I think, and I say that ifyou take out the first 20 minutes
of saving Private Ryan, and Ithink the thing that'll put this
over the edge for SavingPrivate Ryan, for me at least, is
that first 20 minutes becauseof the realistic nature of that opening.
But I want to set that asidebecause we've already talked about
it.
But from after you get pastthat with both movies, like, I think

(27:58):
they're so close in that they're.
It's very real.
Like, you open this Thin Redline after you get past the introduction,
like overtime, and we get intoactual fighting.
Dude, what a way.
What a way to use Jared Letogetting plugged first five minutes
of the fight.
You know what I mean?
Like, because he sticks hishead up too far and he's waiting.

(28:19):
So it's and then the fear thatyou see in both, like, of these soldiers
that do extraordinary thingsin a very extraordinary situation
on either side of good, bad,indifferent, however you want to
look at it.
But I think, like, the actualseeing of your friends and, like,
the death and the toll that ittakes, like.

(28:42):
And they don't shy away in theviolence in either one of these.
I think ultimately I'm gonnagive it to Saving Private Ryan.
But I think if we're talkingabout categories being close, I think
this one and the last one thatwe'll talk about are as close as
it can get because they bothdo a great job of the weight of war
and the violence, and theydon't shy away from it to the point

(29:05):
that, man, it's brutal.
Limbs lost in both, like,explosions, and you're just like,
holy.
This is traumatic and crazy.
And I am grateful as much as Ican say that about having problems
that led me to not be able tojoin the military.
And I appreciate our.
I've said this many times.

(29:25):
I say all the time, Iappreciate our veterans, but Ike
wouldn't have lasted in war.
I just wouldn't have.
Like, I'm not built for that, so.
And watching and the fact thata movie.
I can't even imagine that inreal life, like, it's wild.
So I'm gonna give it the samePrivate Ryan, but it's because of
that opening scene.

(29:45):
But I think outside of that,they're both really close.
Like, you take that away, andI'd have a hard time picking between
the.
What about you, Matson?
I mean, like you said, easyone to give it to.
Is SVP or spv Saving Private, right?
No, spr.

(30:06):
Jeez.
Spp.
I was thinking of esp.
That's a hell of a journey there.
Just having it.
Like, I talked about being atNormandy and seeing it and seeing
all the scenes that they included.
Like, I.
When I was walking, I waslike, man, I feel like I'm literally.
I mean, I wasn't looking atthe exact stretch of beach, but sure

(30:29):
as felt like it was just socool to see that in those 20 minutes.
But I think moving past thatfor both movies after, it's splitting
hairs after that, as Jaytalked about, I think with a thin
red line, I.
You got to see more of themistakes and individual fear and

(30:53):
trepidation and also the pushfor glory, like the bloodlust, the.
The ptsd, the personal agendas of.
Of doing right by your soldiers.
And I guess that was seen by both.
But I think I like theindividual Portrayals in the Thin
Red Line a little bit more.

(31:14):
But I think Saving PrivateRyan, like, showed what a true combat
unit is.
Like the brotherhood and thecamaraderie that is developed.
I appreciated that.
I think I'd go Saving PrivateRyan, like, barely.
But really the kicker is theopening 20 minutes.
Like, again, sometimes I justwatch it because it was that good.

(31:35):
Swear.
All right, Alec, this is going to.
Be the hardest one, becausefor me, they did such a good job
of once again portraying thetheater they were in at the European
theater.
Seen as kind of the civilized.
More civilized, where you're.
You're looking at the guythat's trying to kill you in a way.

(31:57):
Right.
There's a machine gun, youknow, nest on a hill with no trees
around it.
Yeah, okay.
Versus Thin Red Line.
You have that.
That scene, like, with thetall grass.
Oh, right.
And so a lot of the Pacific is.

(32:18):
You.
You thought you, you know,were fighting 100 guys on the other
side, and it might have beentwo dudes with the, you know, with
the bolt action rifle.
Like, you just did not knowbecause you couldn't see them.
And so you have this.
This fear that I think isportrayed really well where, you

(32:39):
know, got a guy who's like,dude, I.
I got one.
I got one.
Boom.
Up dead.
And so it's.
It's.
It's almost played a littlebit for a laugh, but at the same
time, it's like, that's.
That's what the Pacific was like.
You're dropped off on an island.
There's.

(32:59):
It's guerrilla warfare.
Six Japanese soldiers versus,you know, entire company.
And that's almost like the.
Dude, we lost 40 guys, and wedon't even know how many we got because
we can't find them.
And so it's a tricky onebecause it's.
It's again, two differenttheaters, but I think what it's going

(33:22):
to come down to, similar toyou guys, is that opening scene for
Saving Private Ryan justalmost takes away or, you know, covers
up any kind of the.
The plot.
McGuffins.
And the conveniences of, oh,hey, there just happens to be one
solid good bell tower for oursniper to sit up and all this good

(33:45):
stuff.
And so it's.
It's going to go to Sabre forthat one for me, but it is very close.
Yeah, it's a tough one.
And to your point, like, Idon't know, like.
Well, I'll save that for thelast topic.
Yeah.
All right, what's next, Madsen?
I think this one be relatively.
I mean, A little bit quicker.
Jace talked about this alittle bit, so we'll make you go

(34:07):
first and expound characterdevelopment and ensemble cast.
So Wolfty.
Okay, let's just go ahead andsay that Thin Red Line may have one
of the greatest casts, castlists in movie history.
And it's interesting from amovie that a lot of times neither

(34:27):
of you had seen it.
And I talk about it and peoplelike, I don't know that I've ever
heard about that movie, andI'm like, oh.
And so I'm not shocked by that anymore.
But like, like I said, if youhaven't seen it and you're listening
to this, watching this, gowatch it because it's worth the watch.
And the cast is outrageous.
There's gotta be 30 plusOscars wrapped up in just the cast

(34:50):
alone of that movie.
And, and, and you.
There's a whole list.
Like, if you go down IMDb theyalways have the cast list.
And you get to the bottom, ifyou look at the full cast, there's
like the uncredited cast.
Dude, even the uncredited castis ridiculous.
Like, it's stupid.
Some of the names that are in this.
And so from a.
A cast perspective, it doesn'tget any better than did Red Line.

(35:12):
But if there's a competitor,the one that's trying, it's sure
going to be Saving PrivateRyan because you get a lot just like
Thin Red Line, a lot of short,brief cameos of these major actors
that you're like, oh, youknow, and some of.
I think there's a couple ofcrossovers, if I remember right.
Like they're in both movies ashigher arch.
I'd have to look at it again,but I think my first thing goes to

(35:34):
the guy from Cheers.
Why?
I can't think of his name, butI think he's in both.
Anyway, my issue when it comesto this is like the.
And I'm gonna give thisparticular topic to Thin Red Line
because I think Saving PrivateRyan, the ensemble cast, and the

(35:56):
ensemble nature of the cast tome, takes away from the ability for
me to be.
I could get attached.
Everybody loves the Captain, right?
Because it's Tom Hanks andhe's amazing and he plays this character
as good as he's played ever, anything.
And.
And then you have a couple ofother characters that within the,
you know, this little groupthat you might get attached to one

(36:17):
way or another.
Like I love Giovanna Grabisi'scharacter and you know, and so it's
really rough when he goes and.
But then Thin Red Line is sogood, because to me, from.
Each cast has its place, andeach main character is the focus.
And then it's how these cameoscome in and impact that individual

(36:41):
character that were, in theirpoint of view, if you will.
Whereas with Saving PrivateRyan, there's all these little cameos,
but it's for one reason, toget them closer to the plot.
MacGuffin.
Right.
Like, they.
They're finding a way to getto talk to soldiers or have a conversation
when they're sleeping orwhatever it might be.
It plays towards moving them forward.
But the thin red line, thosecameos are almost always strategic

(37:05):
in order to show the impactthat they had on this person that
we're watching, whether it'sinspired them or, you know, push
them further away from wantingto be where they're at and doing
what they're doing.
And so I think that that'sjust such a clever use, and it's
so smart to watch.
And I thoroughly enjoywatching that development of these
individuals that we get theirpoint of view and their perspectives

(37:27):
and.
And then the turnarounds andthe changes and the things that they
do that are outside theircharacter and the things that they
do that fit right within thatestablished monologue that we have
from each of them.
Like, it's just so good to methat I get an insight of their.
Their mind and then how thesecharacters and.
And the theater board thatthey're in and what they're doing

(37:48):
evolves and helps them to move forward.
So I'm gonna give this one thetheater headline.
But they both have justunbelievable casts, like, wild.
Look, dude, when you got JaredLeto die in, you got Woody Harrelson
blowing up.
You got John Travolta on aboat, you've got Nick Noi losing
his mind, then George Clooney,pretty boy giving a pep talk to these

(38:12):
troops.
I'm like, dude, war isglamorous, obviously, jokes.
But I just.
I.
That was the one thing thatkept me.
Got me out of my slumber of like.
Like, like, slowness.
Watching this.
I was like, they got another person.
I was like, is that who Ithink it is?
Like, he's in this movie, too.
Like, what the.
It's crazy for me.

(38:36):
I.
I think I.
I go thin red line.
Even though the pace is slower.
Just the sheer amount of just.
I mean, if you.
If you got the guts to kill,like, I guess Jared Leto was kind
of, like, up and coming atthat point.
Or maybe more obscure, even,like, Woody Harrell.
I was like, you.
You must have a lot of goodpeople in this movie, if you're willing
to kill these people like thisway and that fast.

(38:59):
And I didn't mind.
I was.
I was more so just like, damn,he just died, Mike.
Whoa.
Yeah.
Somebody that's not a nobody.
Which I think too.
And you bring up a good point.
Not to interrupt you.
Sorry, but I think youtriggered a great point in my head.
And that is it.
Also, they use them to showthat nobody's safe in war, right?

(39:22):
Like, holy.
It's Woody hair.
Oh.
See?
Woody.
You know what I mean?
Like, nobody's safe.
I was just waiting forsomebody else important to die.
I was like, someone else isgonna go down.
I was.
But what takes the kid, and it's.
It's hard to say, is because Ilove Tom Hanks.
But what's funny about SavingPrivate Ryan, he's as good.

(39:46):
Like you said, he's as good asany Tom Hanks in any movie that I've
seen.
But this isn't to me a TomHanks movie.
And it feels a little weird tosay that, but that's.
I don't watch this moviebecause of him.
I watch it because of just thesheer cinematography.
Cinematography.
And he happens to be amazing.
I think when we get to 0.5about the philosophical nature and

(40:07):
the moral implications, that'swhere he crushes it.
We'll talk about that.
But.
But his.
I don't know.
It's just like, I don'tremember his performance as much
of this movie as much as the cinematography.
And I think it.
Because it's so amazing, it'shard to overcome that.
But in a thin red light,there's a few performances.

(40:28):
And for me, the one that takesthe cake is Nick Nolte's character.
Like, dude, he just.
His story.
Whenever he was on that, I.
I was locked in at any scene that.
That had me go.
Because I'll.
As we'll talk about at theend, there's a lot of some other
sub story lines.
It was so long.
I.
Not every one of them landedfor me.
And they won't.
I'm sure that not all of themlanded for you because if they did,

(40:50):
then power to you.
But not all of them worked.
But, man, his stuff.
And especially his monologueafter they broke through the first
time.
And then he's just beratingthat other.
Whatever, the captain or whatever.
And then after he's like, wecould do this.
We can push through.
We got to wait.
He's like self talking andthey're like yelling at other people
and like spit flying and, youknow, like, there were people like

(41:13):
that literally in war thatwere going for the glory, that didn't
get a chance to fight.
This is their moment.
They want to push through.
And they're like, we got.
But I'm like, yeah, you maythink we got this, but you're saying
we got this with, like, 3,000soldiers that just went through hell.
And you may want this, but isit worth it?
Like, getting some sleep andgetting some goddamn water up the
mountain for, like, his stuff?

(41:35):
Dude, like, man, I mean, I'veseen a lot of movies, but they could
not have casted him better.
Like, he was losing his mind.
And then, like, thecentrifuge, and he was trying to
get that captain basically,like, pushed out.
And, man, I just.
Oh, that was awesome.
And then that captain orwhatever that made that decision

(41:55):
to not put his men injeopardy, that really, honestly made
me think of Saving PrivateRyan, because Tom Hanks character
does that quite a bit with hiscrew, and that kind of leads us in
the 05 here.
Shortly before we do.
Nick Nolte's character.
Crushed it.
Agreed.

(42:15):
All right, Alec, this is theeasiest one because I'm gonna focus
on the character developmentpart of that thing.
And in Saving Private Ryan,there really isn't any.
It kind of come as you are,you know, and there's no real opportunity
for it as well, or it wouldn'tmake much sense.

(42:36):
Right.
To have this characterdevelopment takes away from the point
of the story to begin with.
And so the characters comealready prepackaged and put together,
and this is.
This is what you're gonna get.
Thin red line.
You have that.
You know that there's changesyou go through.
You're starting to see why wehave people deserting and then also

(43:01):
why they're dragging theirasses back.
Yeah.
And so it's.
It's gonna be an easy thin redline for me for that one.
Yeah, it's good points.
All right, we on to the last one.
We are in probably the mostcomplex in some senses, the philosophical
and ethical reflections.

(43:21):
Alec, you would be up firstfor this one.
I figured it'd go somethinglike this.
What is it?
Philosophical and ethical?
Yeah.
I mean.
Yeah, you just talk.
This is the weightiest thingabout war, so there should be much
to say.
So the.

(43:42):
There's.
There's a couple parts toSaving Private Ryan that I do not
enjoy.
The most egregious is JeremyDavies as Colonel Upham up them.
Hate that he gets added in.
And I do not see the point,because a lot of the philosophical

(44:05):
or ethical you know,consequences we'll say are run through
Corporal Upham.
And it makes no sense to me.
There's almost no reason for it.
And it as such an unlikablecharacter just across the board.

(44:26):
I mean, it's, it's, it's sucha awkward and weird choice for me
because you have this, youknow, you know, they're Army Rangers,
right?
They're.
They're a Ranger squad.
These are the best of the bestthat are doing this and they pick

(44:47):
up this dude.
And then a lot of what theyare doing is based off of what Corporal
Upham is being like their, youknow, quote unquote moral voice,
a stupid idea.
And so my biggest complaintwith Saving Private Ryan is you almost

(45:08):
undo a lot of that.
All the work that you put inby running these big kind of, you
know, stories or situation orchoices through such a dog character
to try and make me feel like,oh, yeah, you know, during.
When you're in the firefight,like you freeze.
Like, there's people who freeze.
There's people who have thisshell shock to come back.

(45:31):
You know, know PTSD orwhatever it is.
And it's like you could havedone that without running through
Jeremy Davies.
And so you have the machinenest gunner that, you know, they,
they all just want to pop.
Pretty sure he would have been popped.
Yeah.

(45:52):
Sorry.
Right.
The war is hell.
So you're going to have theseteams where there's nobody around.
It is much simpler.
Instead of letting the Vermontpick them back up again, pop him.
And so you're.
And then, you know, we seelater he shows up at the bridge and
corporal up him, gets his.
Gets his sweet revenge bypopping them and letting everybody

(46:13):
else go.
And it's a struggle for me onthat point because you have this
great kind of story going foryou, you know, with the, we're gonna
go find Ryan.
Oh, we can't find them, butwe're gonna go, we lose guys, we
lose guys, we lose guys.
But this is important.
This is the mission.

(46:34):
And you know, you have thatgreat stuff and it's all undone by
corporal up versus Thin red line.
You have this, I think Matsonis brought up and you have as well,
this kind of like secret powergrabbing that's happening.
Like, hey, I want you to get promoted.
This is how you get promoted.
This is what you do.
And so you have that, youknow, corruption within the ranks

(46:54):
a little bit and that stuffthat happens too.
And you know, there's going tobe those opportunistics.
There's the line like, hey, this.
This is my war, right?
I didn't get to fight the lastone type of a feeling.
And so it's.
I've been waiting for this.
I've been waiting my 15 years.
And so you have some peoplewho are truly psychotic, but they're.
They are.

(47:15):
You know, they want this.
And so it kind of can trickleup the chain of command all the way
up to the top of the peoplewho are making decisions.
But if I'm gonna go withphilosophical, yeah, I think it's
got to be Thin Red Linebecause of my absolute hate of what
they did with Jeremy Davies.

(47:36):
And it's gotten to the pointwhere I can't really watch much with
Jeremy Davies in it becauseI'm like, dude, fucking Corporal.
Corporal Upham is the onlyfubar thing about this movie.
Left his buddy high and dry tojust get killed.
But, yeah, that Nick Noltecy,what he's like, what does he say?

(47:58):
Like, I'm gonna.
I'm gonna put up our.
A silver star.
You want a purple hardtail?
I'll give it to you.
Like, I'll do right by.
Like, jeez, dude.
Like, yeah, gamify war alittle bit.
I guess I'll go.
For me, the easy is an easy answer.
I think, overall, I give it tothe Thin Red Line for this one because

(48:21):
of some of the things outsideof war, like the.
I can't remember which soldierit was, but his was.
It was his wife that ended uplike, that was his hold on.
That was what his anchor toget him through, to keep him sane.
And I remember texting Jay this.
I was like, damn.
When she writes him and said,I, hey, I found some other soldiers

(48:41):
that came home.
Like, shoot, dude, I don'thave the stats, but I'm.
I guarantee that happened adecent amount.
And you imagine getting thatletter with all the crap that you've
just been through for monthsor a couple years, and.
And that's what you get.
Like, oh, man, what would thatdo to a man out there in the field?
And how would that make you feel?

(49:01):
Because I.
I have never been to war,never will be, but I've been in circumstances.
When I've been away from myfamily, I went on a Mormon mission.
A very different circumstance.
I was safe physically and mentally.
But, like, when you're thatfar away, like, you hold on to the
memories and your family and things.
And if someone, like, broke meoff or whatever, it's like, like.

(49:23):
And I can only, like, thetimes up by 100 in war.
That's one really hit me.
Because it felt so real about.
I think they just.
In the Thin Red Line, they dida better job showing just what it
would feel like maybe if youwere there, like if you went crazy,
they showed that.
Or if you were power hungry,if you were trying to do right by

(49:44):
your men.
But that doesn't mean the armythinks you're actually doing the
right thing by saving lives.
If you are the guy that thecaptain decided to save the lives
and then you get screwed and.
And your.
Your team knows about it, butwhat are you going to do?
But you're kind of like, well,I do get to go home.
But you feel guilty because ifyou do go home, you know you're leaving

(50:04):
those men to potentially diebecause you're not there to stand
up for them to the.
Looking at the.
The Japanese soldiers where you.
Do you want to take them asprisoners or you just want to.
You want to kill them and save pr.
Ryan did a very, very good jobof portraying that dilemma as well
in a couple scenes.
But I just think there's moremoments in A Thin Red Line that they

(50:30):
show where Saving Private Rundoes a really good job.
And this is specificallythrough Tom Hanks and how he talks
about the soldiers is thatdilemma of why do we have to go save
the one?
And as they.
Where I will disagree a littlebit with the character progression,
I think it was Alec that saidit is.
I do think there's somelearning from this group about they

(50:50):
bulk at that idea for a longtime and then as they get to the
end, they realize war is notwhat we thought it was.
We need something to hold onto that feels like wholesome and
right and good.
And you know what?
Saving someone's life givespurpose to the shit show that we're
in.
And they hold on to that alittle bit more.

(51:10):
And I like that message, but Ijust think there's more messages
and a Thin Red line that showyou that war is not glamorous, war
is not fun, and war is really hard.
Not just the fighting, but theother implications in and around
it.
And for that, I think it justhas a little bit more weight to it
in the way that it's told.

(51:34):
Yeah, this is.
This is my hot take.
The.
The one thing that ruinsSaving Private Ryan for me through
and through is the scene we.
You just talked about.
Al 1.
There's this attempt to showwhat Thin Red Line does a very good
job of like the politics ofwar at the higher end by inserting

(51:55):
up them into this group.
Right.
There's no reason for him tobe there other than the, the Colonel
or whatever.
I can't remember whoever likeinserts him there to his like the
guy, the help or whatever.
I don't even remember thereason that's how much I hate that
story piece be is because tosay, well he has, he's there to make
sure they get there and don'tjust quit trying to find him or whatever.

(52:19):
And I hate that because there's.
I mean this is an elitefighting group.
I mean they, they show.
This is a group that'sseasoned, they know each other and
they're gonna follow ordersespecially based on Tom Hanks character.
They're gonna follow thisorder and they're gonna do it in
the best and most efficientway possible.
And then Upham comes in and itall up like.
And, and, and I'm sorry but.

(52:40):
And I know Tom Hanks is tryingto be the one because I'm, I'm with
Alec.
Like, I don't see.
I see both points.
The, the character progressionfor me in Saving Private Ryan.
Ryan is pretty much non existent.
It's these stereotypicalpieces from soldiers and they plug
them in and they all havetheir part to play to move the story
forward.

(53:00):
But Tom Hanks's character issupposed to be.
Who has some of thatdevelopment around.
Well, we're not just here to fight.
I'm a teacher and I was a verypeaceful man.
And now I'm in this war andI'm very good at it and leading this
group to that progression.
But he undermines himself byletting up them.
Convince him to let this guygo from a group like this.
Like I could see it from anormal commander who's not in charge

(53:22):
of a bunch of Rangers,Airborne Rangers that are supposed
to be the best of the best ofwhat they do.
But this guy, there's no waythey let this guy go.
No way.
Not a chance in hell.
And it bothers me that Uphamcomes in and disrupts that and so,
and whether or not it's right,I don't know.
Like, you know, I'm not asoldier, I never was.
But I, I just have a hard timegoing, oh yeah, they'll just put

(53:45):
a blindfold on him and sendhim down the way to rejoin the ranks
of the German army.
And then we find him againlater and I'm just like, oh God.
And then the fact that Uphamwaits and then gets his come up it.
I think this movie would havebeen just as good, if not better
if you just pull up them outof It.
You don't even have to have.
They can have a moraldiscussion where Tom Hanks is like,

(54:08):
we don't really need to killthis guy.
We should let him go.
And the soldiers are like thatwe're murking this guy and then they
do it.
Or.
And.
Or he makes a judgment calland lets him go and.
But up them just.
It's.
I hate it.
And I feel like they weretrying to force some character development
in there that I don't need forthis to be a good movie.
Now I say all that because youalso have to have this moral discussion

(54:33):
and the, you know, the.
What we're talking about here.
Like this.
This whole philosophical rangeof this guy.
He's captured in the grandscheme of things, one soldier doesn't
make a difference.
Now they do a good job ofshowing that that's not always the
case right throughout the.
In this movie.
I just don't like the way thatthey do it because it's distracting

(54:55):
to me and I feel like itdoesn't help.
That's my one beef about saving.
It's like the thing that makes.
I'm like, ugh.
Every time I watch it, I'm like.
I just roll my eyes and go, Ihate this part.
The thin red with thin red line.
Like I think the reason ittakes it for this.
On this.
This category for me is thedifferent pieces that you get to

(55:19):
your point.
You got people that are losingtheir and you got people that want
to be in this war.
You got people.
And I tear.
I completely agree with you.
The best performance acrossthe board in both these movies.
And Nick Nolte, no questions Asked.
And don't get me wrong, JimCaviezel killed it this movie.
God, why can't I think of theother one?
Anyway, there's a couple.
There's a number of greatperformances across the board in

(55:41):
these movies.
But from a moral dilemma andlike this whole philosophical standpoint,
there are so many more shady,shitty things that are done in Thin
Red Line that I would imaginewere very true and happen all the
time.
And even in modern daymilitary, I am sure that there are
career soldiers that wanttheir glory and they want that.

(56:04):
You know what I mean?
And I hate to say that not butthat's the nature of humans.
And I love that this movieportrays it to that level, I think
where they both do very good.
And the balance is the.
The choice between taking careof my soldiers and the choice between,
you know, is it worth thelives of my soldiers to win this
particular battle or do I sendthem in on the chance that we win

(56:27):
it and, you know, secure thisposition or whatever it might be
versus the, nah, this isn'tthe right way to do it.
And so I think they both do avery good job of that.
And one of the biggest onesfor me on that is early on in Saving
Private Ryan when freaking VinDiesel's doe ass character gets caught
up.
And I think, to me, this wasthe better version of doing the right

(56:49):
thing versus doing the wrong thing.
And it gets you in trouble.
Then ups when he's trying tosave the family and the little girl
specifically because theparents, like, get her out of here,
and then he pays that pricefor it.
To me, that's the moraldilemma that I'm like, oh, because
I don't know that I wouldn'tmake that choice.
That's a cute little girl.
And I feel bad for her beingin a war zone, right?
Like, we know Alec wouldn't.

(57:11):
Alec don't give a.
But, like, I would have a hardtime not latching, being Vin Diesel
and latching on to that littlegirl and saying, we got to get her
out of here, Cap, and thentaking a sniper bullet for it.
You know what I mean?
So to me, like, that's one ofthe better portrayals of, like, that
balance of am I a good personor do I would.
Am I a soldier?
Right.
Like, to me.

(57:32):
And how does that balance get struck?
But I think overarching ThinRed Line does it great the best.
And I think it plays it to mebecause that's what this whole, to
me, Thin Red Line, that's whatit's about is the comparison of a
soldier versus a human being.

(57:52):
Can they be both at the same time?
How does that develop?
What does war do to you?
Like, all of those are hingedon this philosophical moral dilemma
of war in and of itself.
Whereas Saving Private Ryanhas pieces of that around a very
linear story that is verywholesome at the end because I agree,
like, that is a great thing tosave this and for this.

(58:15):
But I also go, is thatmother's mental and emotional staving,
that anguish worth howevermany soldiers it costs to go get
Private Ryan?
Right?
So that's the.
The big moral question in thatmovie, and it's a tough one to answer,
but Thin Red Line has so manybranches of like.

(58:37):
And then you.
Like, I found myself inThinner Line going, would I do that?
Like, how would I be?
Like, would I be a Nick Nolte?
Would I be, you know, any oneof these characters that does weird
or tries not to.
So yeah, it's a tough one.

(58:57):
Tough one, you're gonna say.
That's why I like these movies.
Is it?
There isn't really like afinite answer at the end.
It's just.
It leaves it up to your interpretation.
But out rounds us out.
So it brings us to ratings.
Let's wrap this sucker up.
J.
I guess it's your movie, your first.
Yeah, my movies.
This is a.
Oh God, this one's tough.

(59:18):
I'm giving four and a halfs to both.
I'm gonna give them both thesame score and then I'll tell you
why I don't give them fives.
Saving Private Ryan doesn'tget a five for me because of the
parts of the story that pullme out, namely up them.
There's a couple of scenesthat I just don't need.
Like there's some, like the length.

(59:39):
While I love the scene withVin Diesel's character early on,
like the length of that sceneand then the ridiculousness of the
sniper shooting the dudethrough his own sniper scope.
And like there's some thingsthat I'm just like that just feels
not necessary.
So those are the things thatfor Saving Private Ryan, Thin Red
Line is, is.

(01:00:01):
It's bloated at times.
Like there are.
You could cut.
I still think they could getup the point across in the character
development there and cut backsome of like the slower pieces and
even some of the.
The higher level conversationsthat happen that don't impact the
main characters in the movie,at least not directly.
I think there's some of thosethat could have been edited out.

(01:00:21):
I think for me, Thin RedLine's biggest issue is it didn't
have to be three hours long.
It could have been two and ahalf and it still would have been
just as good.
I think Saving Private Ryanneeded to because of the opening
scene, but there was a lot ofweird choices that they made that
I think they were trying toinject some of the things that didn't.
That Red Line did so well intoa movie that was never built to be

(01:00:42):
a Thin red line.
It was built to be a moremarketable film with some really
great things.
And so I think those are thetwo places where they suffer very
different reasons that theysuffer in RNA 5, but they're both
four and a half amazing movies.
As far as the matchup, here'sanother hot take.
I would pick A Thin Red Lineover Saving Private Ryan as far as

(01:01:05):
the better movie becauseagain, I think for me in this case,
I don't Want the mainstreambased movie.
I want the movie that fromstart to finish, makes me question
how I would be in everysituation that we see in that movie.
And the inner dialogue and the.
Those kind of things.
Like, I'm not a huge fantypically of that kind of like voiceover,

(01:01:28):
but I love it in this film.
It works so well for me.
So that's where I'm going.
The battle is won by Thin Red Line.
It's a very close one, butthey're both four and a halfs and
phenomenal movies.
I'll go.
I'm gonna give Saving privateRyan A4.
I'm gonna give a thin red linea 3.5.

(01:01:48):
And if I had, obviously it'sclearly defined who I'm picking one
or the other.
I think what it comes down tofor me is I'm never gonna want.
I don't think I'll ever watchA Thin Red Line again.
I might watch the Nick andNolte scenes.
In fact, I kind of want to,but I do not want to watch the whole
movie over again.
It is just.
It's far too bloated.

(01:02:08):
If there was a movie right fora re edit, as JJ talked about, please
do that to A Thin Red Line,I'll watch it again.
There's just some things youcan pull out, some.
There's so many narratives.
Take two out, you're gonnasave yourself some time and I'll
watch it.
It's just, it's.
It's heavy and it's slow and I.

(01:02:29):
There's not enough action towant me, like, to pull me in to watch
it.
But, man, the acting's so good.
But gosh dang it, it is so long.
Saving Private Ryan.
For me, it's like I said atthe beginning, I still will watch
like this, like the openingscene probably, if not every year,
like every other year or something.
Just because it's amazing.
Like, it doesn't.
It doesn't get better than that.

(01:02:49):
But it is a slow decline afterthat and even Tom Hanks can't save
it.
So it's.
It's kind of.
Again, kind of like Thin Red Line.
It's a pacing thing.
It kind of just.
It burns so hot that itdoesn't have anything left to burn.
And it's.
It's a slog afterwards as well.
So these are imperfect moviesto me.
But in terms of.

(01:03:09):
I know I'm giving him slightlylower ratings, but like, of all war
movies that I've seen at then,Red Line is now like, very much at
the top of that And SavingPrivate Ryan, I think is number one.
Like, I, it's.
I mean, in terms of realism,it's just hard to compete with it.
But these movies, they're notwithout their flaws.
And a lot of it just comesdown to sheer length.

(01:03:31):
And I feel like all war moviesare long, but gosh dang it, like,
you chop off 20 minutes onboth of these, it'd be a beautiful
thing.
Then redline needs like 35minutes chopped off.
But, you know, I'm excited.
We're gonna do a war moviemonth one of these times and, And
I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'mgonna bring the pain for Matson to

(01:03:52):
let him see some additionalmovies that I bet he hasn't seen
that I think he'll like.
All right.
I've seen a lot of them, butyeah, there's.
I got some obscure ones thatare real good.
I'm flip flopped of Matson.
I'm giving Saving Private Ryanthree and a half than red line of
four.
Saving Private Ryan, if it was20 minutes long, is perfection.

(01:04:18):
Absolute perfection.
The things that I have aproblem with, that I hate, I think
are just ruin it, right?
So you got Colonel, you gotCorporal Upham.
Stupid.
You have, like, you weretalking about jj scenes that could
be cut, namely the fact thatlike the, the entire sequence where
they're waiting for that final battle.

(01:04:38):
You got Matt Damon telling thestupid ass story about the last time
he was with his brothers.
I, I hate it.
Everything about it.
Anytime Corporal Upham istranslating drives me nuts.
Because he doesn't act like anactual translator.
What?
He acts like he, you know,read a German dictionary or a French
dictionary.

(01:05:00):
And then why they insert himis to be a.
Yeah, that's right.
I remember now.
And then, like two days ago.
And now I remember.
Right.
And then it's capped off witha lot of cool stories from other
wars.
Right.
The entire premise behindSaving Private Ryan, the entire story
happened in a different war, really.

(01:05:20):
And then you have the snipershot through the scope.
That's the thing that happenedthe Vietnam War.
And they're like, oh, that was cool.
Let's throw it in here.
And so you have almost, afterthe first 20 minutes, the rest of
it's like, oh, this would becool, this would be cool.
This would be cool.
And it just kind of fallsapart for me.
Then Red Line, I think, does abetter job of being that cohesive

(01:05:40):
unit.
Yes, it's long, it's a slog,but I mean, it's, it's feeling like
an echo chamber.
At this point.
But Nick Nolte just.
If I had to choose and take itdown to one character.
Right.
In a similar character, yougot Nick Nolte versus Tom Hanks.
And so I'm.

(01:06:02):
I'm giving it the thin redline on this one because I will watch
it again.
But I.
I would only watch the first20 minutes of saving Private Ryan.
That's fair.
I'm glad you'd watch it again.
It always makes me happy whenI introduce you guys to movies that
you.
Enjoy and, like, I want towatch it again.

(01:06:23):
But we.
It's a lot.
It's a lot.
I was trying to see if Nolteeven got nominated for that in any
way, shape or form.
He should have.
I don't think he did.
Did he not have a big enoughpart for him to really be considered?
I don't know.
It's got.
Here's the thing is none ofthe actors were nominated.

(01:06:44):
It doesn't look like the Academy.
It was.
It was up for best Picture,Best Director, best Writing, best
Cinematography, best Sound,best Film Editing, Best Music.
But it also was in 99 versus98, where saving private Ryan cleaned
up well.
Yeah, half of those.
It was never going to beatSaving Private Ryan for.

(01:07:05):
Yeah.
Which I'm sure is why they dida limited release in 98 and then
the full release in 99, so itwould qualify for the 99 awards cycle.
But, yeah, it doesn't looklike it was all nominees.
It doesn't look like they wonanything, which is a shame.
It's too long.
It is long.

(01:07:26):
It is.
It is.
Well, that's because theydidn't expect the Matrix to come
after out of nowhere.
Yeah, no kidding.
I was in 99.
No kidding.
Yeah, That's a fair point.
You couldn't.
I mean, yeah, I like it.
Then red light.
But you want to compare it tothe Matrix.
All Matrix.
I'll watch it any given hourover this movie.

(01:07:47):
Yeah.
And like, OG Matrix.
So it's you.
I mean, so that's like, topfive best movies I've ever seen,
I think.
Yeah, it's out there.
Which we reviewed.
So go take a listen to thatone, too.
A few episodes back.
Just go watch.
That's a movie I could watch,like, anytime.
Me too.
So good.
All right.
Well, it's been a fun month, boys.
This was.

(01:08:08):
This is a good episode.
A lot to talk about.
A slog.
It is a lot of work to do this.
We'll probably do it everyyear in February since it's a shorter
month.
These podcasts Go longer.
They're also, I think more serious.
This is when we get to liketrue movie analysis, I would say
because you all that listen tous, we more so shoot the breeze.
In other movies sometimeswe'll, we'll dive into the weeds

(01:08:30):
a little more.
These ones we get into thedeep, deep weeds and actually tell
you like we get really filmcriticy which I think is fun to get
to the roots every now and then.
So hopefully I'll appreciated it.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
All right, Alec, telleverybody where they can find us.
Happy to jj.
Well, that's a wrap.
I can finally stop being saltythis month because we're into a brand

(01:08:52):
new month where I have picks again.
That's right, but that's it.
Saving Private Ryan versus theThin Red Line.
Do you guys agree with our verdict?
What do you think?
Do we get it right or are wein need of an appeal?
Courtroom jargon for you there.
Let us know your thoughts byhitting us up on social media or
by leaving a comment on ourYouTube video where you can see our

(01:09:15):
smiling faces and Max's deadstare of deafness.
Alec, you don't want their appeal.
They just know you shoot them.
Like I have never shot a listener.
Just want to put that out there.
I just talked about the moralimplications we just talked about
with war, there'd be noquarter from you.

(01:09:35):
Oh yeah, no, absolutely not.
With that I will kick it back.
Oh wait, no.
Special shout out and thankyou to our patrons, Rich and CB for
selecting the movies withinthis topic.
Got a great lineup coming nextmonth and if you guys want to get
involved with the selectionsof both monthly topics and the movies

(01:09:56):
that go within those monthlytopics, hit us up on Patreon what's
our verted reviews and joinour crew of misfits.
Now with that, I'll kick itback to our fearless leader, the
titan of terror, the king ofCrash, Ajayjay.
Yeah, appreciate that Alec.
And definitely appreciate our patrons.
They're awesome.
We love them.
But yeah, as always, weappreciate you tuning in.

(01:10:18):
We'll catch you on the next one.
Hasta la vista, baby.
Cinematic.