January 6, 2025 • 54 mins
The Lighthouse is the focus of today's discussion, with hosts J.J., Mattson, and Alec diving deep into its unsettling themes and unique storytelling. They explore the dynamics between the two lighthouse keepers, played by Robert Pattinson and Willem Dafoe, as they grapple with isolation and insanity on a remote island in the 1890s. The conversation highlights how the film's ambiguous ending leaves viewers questioning the characters' sanity and the nature of their experiences. While Mattson struggles with the film's length and its lack of clear resolution, Alec appreciates the weirdness and psychological tension it delivers. J.J. shares his mixed feelings, acknowledging the film's strong performances but expressing frustration over its unresolved plot elements.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Means that you're man of thepeople status is in jeopardy.
Oh, dude, how many peopleactually watched it, though?
They gave it a 72% fresh rating.
Over a thousand verified ratings.
Yeah, okay, but those are thepeople that.
The only people that areputting reviews up on rotten tomatoes
and IMDb people are peoplelike you, JJ.
(00:27):
Welcome to the what's up Everypodcast we fashion ourselves cinematic
judge and jury.
My name is J.J.
crowder.
I'm here with my co hosts, Matzer.
Better Red Than Dead, and Alec Burgess.
Let's get it.
We appreciate you tuning in.
Go hit that follow, subscribelike bell notification buttons.
Tell a friend about us.
Tell a family member about us.
(00:48):
A couple of cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs.
Lighthouse guys about us.
Yeah, that's all I got.
I don't know how else to sayit, but yeah.
We're kicking off 2025 andJanuary, our new month, officially.
What was this month?
(01:08):
Like, original.
Oh, that's right.
Original screenplay.
So movies with original screenplays.
So none of this, like, sequel or.
Yeah, it's got to be anoriginal idea that came through,
which made for someinteresting choices, not the least
of which was this first onewe're reviewing, the Lighthouse.
(01:30):
It was released November 1, 2019.
It was written and directed byRobert and Max Eggers.
Directed by Robert Eggers.
And then it starred RobertPattinson, Willem Dafoe.
There's a list, I guess.
Valeria Cameron, Logan Hawks,Kyla Nicole, Sean Clark.
(01:52):
And I'm gonna stop therebecause the rest of them, they even
have a seagull on the list, sothat tells you how big this cast
list was.
It's about two lighthousekeepers who try to maintain their
sanity while living on aremote and mysterious New England
island in the 1890s.
Matson, this was your pick, sotake it away, buddy.
(02:14):
Why'd you pick this movie?
Look, I wanted to be somethingthat was not in my wheelhouse.
And while it certainly wasn't,I think I'm reminded why I do stay
in my wheelhouse.
Because this movie probablywas seen by, like, three people,
and they regret watching it.
And so did I.
Hate to break it to you, dude,but he gets a 7.
(02:36):
4.
7.4 out of 10.
So somebody likes it.
These are people, probablylike our co host Alec, that need,
like, a sanity check.
Hold up.
Cause this is actually a good story.
It's a good movie.
The problem is, is it tried totake an indie idea and turn it into
(02:57):
a blockbuster, which is nevera good idea.
Well, I mean.
Okay, so let's jump over.
I was going through IMDb,which admittedly gets more reviews
from critics than it does fromnormal people typically.
But on Rotten Tomatoes, whichgives both gets a 90 fresh and a
(03:19):
72 from a viewer rating.
So to say that it wasn'tpopular means that you're man of
the people status is in jeopardy.
Oh, dude.
How many people actuallywatched it though?
They gave it a 72 fresh rating.
Over a thousand verified ratings.
Yeah, okay, but those are thepeople that.
The only people that areputting reviews up on rotten tomatoes
(03:42):
and IMDb people are peoplelike you, JJ that actually do that.
The movie.
Let's talk about revenue.
How much movie did this money make?
Jay, how much movie did thismoney make?
I don't know.
How much movie.
How much money did this?
Hey, I sound like them whenthey get hallucinatory.
We'll just spin words and thenlet me add a thanky on top of that.
Well, which money did it make?
(04:03):
So if you want to talk aboutmoney, you have to.
You can't just talk aboutmoney made because independent films
have their own.
Yeah, you can't say criteria.
I know.
If you're going to compare it,you have to compare apples to apples
and say a.
In an independent world.
And in an independent world,it's very rare to actually make a
ton of money.
(04:24):
This mo movie grossed 9million over what its budget was.
8 million.
9 million.
So in an independent world,especially a small, weird independent
film like this that'stechnically has no genre.
Like it doesn't list as anything.
You can go to different placesand they all list it as something
different.
Psychological, thriller, a horror.
(04:44):
It's.
There is no genre and it wasnot defined by the movie's creators.
So it's a decent amount ofmoney for an independent film.
Especially black and whitethat was filmed in.
Not quite one to one aspect ratio.
But yeah, I.
I can't say it was a flop.
(05:05):
I mean it didn't make itsmoney back, but it was close.
I mean, I'm not here to say itwas a flop.
I'm not here to say it wasn't interesting.
It's just was an odd movie,but that's what it was always supposed
to be.
It wasn't anything but that.
Sure.
Well, and it's based off of a.
An unfinished short story byPoe, which makes it weird right out
(05:30):
the gate.
And by saying base, thatdoesn't remove the.
Like when I save unfinished.
The short story had like apage and it never got past the introduction
of characters.
Like, it's not like there wassome source material here that they
were able to build off oflike, it was like, okay, here's a
story about a couple guys onan island with a lighthouse.
(05:51):
Go.
So that's why it can still fitwithin the original screenplay.
The real question we all wantto know is would you.
Would you not bang the mermaid?
No, dude.
100 I'm banging the mermaid.
No, not when you know, like,the actual history of mermaids.
They're.
They're out to kill you.
(06:11):
Like, I'm not banging the mermaid.
Especially with like, hergiant fishtail vagina.
Weird.
That was the weirdest visual scene.
This entire.
The jerk off scene was really weird.
Like, it ranks up there withsome, like, dolphin sex conversation.
Like, really.
Well, the other one, when Tomwas up in the lighthouse and that
(06:35):
sticky substance fell down,I'm assuming was that sperm.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because he was like on shroomsand doing his thing.
I was like, oh, man.
Poof.
Yeah.
It's a weird movie.
There's some weird.
I mean, I don't know.
Alec, why do you like this movie?
(06:56):
Because I can tell that you enjoyed.
Because it's weird.
That's why I liked it.
We are talking to you thatloved Rubber Robert.
It was weird.
It was out there.
I will say I was.
I actually didn't really likeboth Willem Dafoe and Robert Pattinson
in this.
I think having those two, Imean, they're great, right?
(07:16):
They're phenomenal actors.
They did a phenomenal job.
But for this specific type ofmovie, I think one of them has to
be unknown.
Either get an or just lessknown because they.
Having both of them.
You're trying to sell tickets100 with using both of them.
And then you get the problemwhere I'm gonna say you're.
(07:39):
You're Matsons, right?
Go to the movie and they'reexpecting Robert Pattinson and Willem
Dafoe and what they get issomething strange.
And so then you're justdisappointed because you're expecting
something completely different.
Right?
It's almost like a bait andswitch with what they're giving you.
(07:59):
Versus this is a chance for,like, to really rely on the independent
story, which the story isfucking strange, but also kind of
cool.
Like, I.
Tell us the story, Alec.
What's the story here?
The absolute gaslighting byWillem Dafoe's character, like, got
(08:20):
me for the first half of thefilm where he's like, oh, yeah, we've
been.
We missed the boat by two weeks.
I'm like, what?
Okay, maybe they're gonna say.
And then you get it later.
Where it's like, dude, youjust smashed up the boat and you
chased me around with an ax.
And then you have to question,what is this guy actually done versus
what is he saying that's been done?
(08:41):
And so the whole justmanipulation, gaslighting that goes
on, I was just intrigued theentire time.
I was like, this dude's pureevil, and I'm here for it.
I think that's what triggeredme, like, the most of this movie
is.
And triggers the wrong word.
But, like, what kept mewatching the movie with interest
(09:03):
versus trying to do somethingelse was, like, the first 90 minutes
of this movie.
Like, I'm wondering what the.
Is at the top of this.
I'm expecting some sort of,like, Lovecraftian, because we keep
seeing the mermaids, and thenwe see the.
You know, the tentacles.
And, like, I'm like this.
(09:25):
I'm feeling this, like,serious HP Lovecraft vibe.
So I'm expecting.
And then he won't let him inthe upper tower.
So I'm like, there's got to be some.
Within the light of the tower,like some demon God or.
You know what I mean?
Like, Cthulhu's up there orsome, right?
Like, that's what I keep thinking.
And what I was aiming for is,like, that's why.
(09:45):
So we know why the Tom.
Like, the young guy's crazy, right?
Like, we know why his.
He's cuckoo because he's stuckon his island with a psychopath or
what.
Seems that way to your pointout, getting gaslit and, like, bossed
around.
And, like, the constant, like,power dynamic that's going on is
(10:06):
really weird.
And then you find more outabout his character later where the
guy's actually a really big.
And then.
But, like, that's to me.
And then you've got this oldguy that, like, I'm like, okay, I
know why he's nuts, but why isWillem Defoe's characters nuts?
Because he's been doing thisfor years.
It's not like he.
This is his first rodeo.
Like, he's not new to this gig.
(10:28):
Like, so why is he nuts?
And then I'm thinking, okay,there's something.
Actually, the reason he won'tlet him up there is there's, like,
this God or this demon or thismonster of some sort that's controlling
him.
And that's where this otherpower dynamic.
So that's what I kept waiting for.
And then it's like, there's no answer.
And I.
I think that's where I get themost frustrated with independent
(10:49):
movies like this.
And I I shouldn't label itjust independent movies, but weird
ass movies like this,especially from like the Eggers Brothers,
because if you've ever watchedthe Witch, and I'm sure neither of
you have, it's the same.
And because Alec, you don'twant to watch that one.
That one's real.
This one has some creepy elements.
That one's geared towardscaring the out of your ass.
But like, it's a really goodfilm in the same vein as this in
(11:13):
that it.
There's no real answers to anything.
And that's where I get reallyfrustrated is it's like I understand
ambiguity and I'm okay with it.
What I'm not okay with is ahint of ambiguity and then nothing.
Like, it's not even ambiguous.
It's like you don't knowbecause at the very end, like he's
(11:36):
looking at the light and thenit cuts to him getting his eyeball
or his guts eaten by birds andyou're like, okay, hold on, how'd
we get here?
Is he hallucinating again?
Is he?
And so ambiguity to me meansthat I could figure out there's like
one of a handful of solutions.
I don't know what the going onby the end of this movie.
(11:57):
And that frustrates me.
Like I want to at least beable to debate the different options.
Yeah, well, I think what amovie that does it well is like for
me, in my opinion, like anInception where at the end then you're
left to wonder, well, is it,is it spinning?
Is it gonna stop?
Like it gives you, you havethat like.
Well, there's like one, two,maybe three options of where we could
talk about that a lot withyour friends, but I agree with you
(12:18):
here, Jay.
It's like the end.
And I was like, well, that wasa, that was a lot from like, that
was like an A to like Z type thing.
Like what, where, where,where'd that, where'd that come from?
Because I like the secondguessing of I'm with Alec on this.
The, the fact that like, well,how much of it actually happened?
Like, you're like, oh, that,that, that.
But nothing in this moviegives me enough grounding to actually
(12:41):
feel like I know what did ordidn't or have really, really any
hypothesis.
And I think that's at timeswhat gets really difficult because
this movie just felt weird forweird sake.
And I question if there wasintention behind that.
Or maybe I'm just too dumb toknow, but I mean, just left your
head kind of in a tizzy.
(13:03):
Yeah.
And I'M sure, Alec, you don'tgive a about that level of ambiguity?
Like, nope.
All I needed to know was it'sbad luck to kill a seabird.
And boy, does he.
Yeah, what a violent way tokill the sea.
I thought this movie was ratedR because of that.
I was like, damn animalviolence right there.
(13:24):
Beat the shiz out of that sequel.
He beat that thing like 10 times.
Yeah, that was a mess.
Even in black and white, youcould see all that blood.
That was a mess.
I will say one thing I do haveto compliment.
Well, there's a few things,one to a point.
You're talking about earlier,Alec, about the Matsons that are
(13:46):
expecting these amazingperformances by well known actors.
For me, one, William Defoe.
He was what I expected.
That dude can play some weird people.
Like, let's just call it what it.
I knew he.
I mean, now having seen thismovie, if I was a screen caster,
like, give me William Defoe.
The dude's already like twocuckoos from Cocoa Puffs.
Like, he's perfect.
(14:06):
He.
He probably was like, look,this is me on Friday night.
I'm like, probably is.
He was great.
But who I continue to beimpressed with.
And I know this movie came outyears ago now, but Robert Pattinson,
let's not forget, he wasextremely typecast to a very well
known movie trilogy that getsmade fun of, AKA Twilight.
(14:30):
But he's been from.
From Tenet to this to.
We reviewed that movie that hewas in that he was a pastor.
Remember that creepy pastor.
I remember what that movie was called.
We reviewed it Devil all the time.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And there's some other movies.
I should be able to name it.
He's a really good actor.
Like I just.
The monologue that he went onwhen he talked about the goddamn
farts.
(14:50):
Which one?
That was funny.
I was gonna text you, Jay, butI forgot.
Like, that part made me chuckle.
But that monologue he went onand the way, like he just.
When he wasn't talking, butthe way he looked into the camera
and like the physical acting,which it's not like John Wick acting,
but, you know, like, it's different.
Like, I was just reallyimpressed with him.
(15:11):
I expected William Defoe togive me what he gave me, but Robert
Pattinson in this movie just.
He's got dimensions.
He really does.
And I was.
I was captivated by his performance.
Not that William Dafoe didn'tdo great.
I just expected him to do itbecause he.
He is that.
But Robert Pattinson was awesome.
And then another thing I Likedabout this movie, the eeriness of
(15:33):
the, the shooting, it feltlike it was an old time movie.
Obviously it was by design,but they hit it on the head.
Like I.
The thing that.
One of the scenes I rememberthe most is when they had the camera
when they were walking, theywere walking up to the house for
the first time and what thatlooked like, that felt like an old
timey style shot and Iappreciated that.
(15:56):
And then the music and reallythe most reoccurring sound is the
foghorn.
Like, I mean that when Jaysaid this has shades of horror, this
one wasn't scary at all, butit, that it.
They did a good jobcaptivating the eeriness and keeping
you a little on edge.
Especially towards the beginning.
Like the first 30 minutes forme, you're still kind of feeling
(16:16):
out like, what the hell is happening?
And they did a great job with that.
And then that foghorn, eventowards the end, I thought that was
exceptional.
Yeah, the audio in it is unnerving.
Like the fact that there'sjust these sounds like that are just
obnoxious in the backgroundand then they'll pull them to the
(16:38):
foreground and then pull themback to the back.
But they're never absent fromthe movie.
Right?
And I think that's like toyour point, like that foghorn and
that like of the sound of thefreaking light spinning to like you
could hear that the whole timeand it starts to like, great.
And then it kind of goes awayfor a while because you get, you
(17:00):
know that resonance gets inyour ears and you're like, okay,
I'm used to it.
And then all of a sudden likehe'll, they'll push it to like, like
during the weird jerk off scene.
As much as I hate to talkabout that, like they bring all those
sounds to the foreground whilehe's like.
And I'm like, stop.
Like this just makes that thatmuch more uncomfortable.
(17:21):
And I, I will say that thismovie, to your point, I think it
goes to the audio and it goesto the filming.
As much as I hate 1 to 1 or119 1, which is what this actually
was.
Like that almost square aspect ratio.
Like that mixed with the blackand white and the really harsh black
(17:42):
and white.
Like it wasn't like a, atypical artistic black and white.
Like it's a harsh, darkerblack and white.
And then you add in the creepysounds that are constantly there.
And like I was uncomfortable alot of this movie, even when nothing
was going on.
Like, I'm just like, God, thismovie needs to hurry up and get over.
(18:03):
Because, like, I don't likewatching it.
Which really puts you in a.
A position to kind of relateto Robert Pattinson's character,
because you can tell he'slike, I don't want to be here.
And then it only gets worsewhen he kills the seagull.
And then, like, they'redelayed, right?
Like, they can't.
It's like, oh, God, this is horrible.
Like, we were one day fromgetting off this island, and now
(18:25):
we're stuck because of this storm.
And then, like, the fact thatthey're always in the rain after
that for that, the.
The duration of that big storm.
I'm like, God, I hate beingstuck in the rain.
Like, I'm the guy that'll sitin my car for a half an hour to wait
for the rain to slow down.
If I'm trying to go into agrocery store or something and it's
(18:46):
raining real bad, I'm like,I'm not going in.
Numb out.
And so, like, watching thatmade me uncomfortable.
So I will say from thatperspective, they did a really good
job of putting me in theposition that I feel like I could
relate to Robert Pattinson.
Patson's character isdiscomfort, right?
Which it was like, o, I don'tlike this at all.
(19:06):
And then on top of that, Ireally wanted to know what was up
in the top of the lighthouse.
So I was like, damn.
And then the only thing thatthrew me off was when he starts talking
about that when he tells the story.
Because my favorite, like,monologue of his, and I guess it
wasn't quite a monologue, butthe dialogue sequence where he's
telling his past, like, how hechanged his name and he watched that
(19:27):
Foreman drown, and he's justlike, I probably should have done
something, but I didn't want to.
I was like, this guy is justas cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs as William
Defo's character.
And I.
You know.
But all of a sudden, now weknow that it's not just this place
that's driving him crazy.
(19:47):
He was a little off before hegot there.
And so, yeah, I mean, from astorytelling perspective, it's an
interesting movie.
I can't deny that as much as Iwant to hate this movie.
Like, I was like, there'sactually some really good aspects
to this film that they didvery well.
Still not something I want torewatch just because it's, like,
(20:09):
not interesting enough to me.
But a first watch, I was like,okay, this is not my style at all,
but this was pretty well done.
For what it is not my style.
And let's be honest, thismovie, they could have taken out
20 minutes easy.
I mean there, there so manythings that if they wanted to condense
(20:29):
it a little bit not.
But I know that was by design.
I want you to look at things,I hear things.
You took this, shorten it by20 minutes.
I think this movie would havebeen more bearable and something
that I could have consideredlike, well, really good acting performances,
interesting subject matter,but the ambiguity and the length
and I don't know, I think attimes it's just, it's a little meandering
(20:51):
and slow and I think it's kind of.
I don't know.
To me it's kind of a one trick pony.
I don't know what I'm gonnasee a second time that like, oh,
wow, I missed that.
Like the ambiguity.
I know what it.
This all is because I don'teven know if the brothers who directed
this know what it all is.
They just wrote it and hopedwe interpreted it because that's
what they were hoping for.
Yeah, I was reading anarticle, an interview that they did
(21:14):
where they like, we didn'teven know what the third act was
going to be until we finishedputting dialogue on paper of the.
He's like, we had a goodtreatment for the first and second
act and then we started, right?
We were like, well, we can'tfigure out the third act.
And then we start writing thedialogue and then we're like, okay.
So now that the dialogue's allthere and the first two acts are
written in a screenplayformat, now we're ready to take on
(21:36):
the third because it, itreally dictated the direction that
they went for the third act.
And I'm like, that's how youknow that this like you just.
And, and to their point, like,I guess to their credit, like, that's
true creative process, right?
Like.
Because like, for example,Goodwill hunting was the same way.
Like they wrote most of thedialogue of that movie as they were
(21:57):
shooting it.
And they would sit around andMatt Damon and Ben Affleck would
have conversations like theywere the.
At like the characters in this movie.
And like that's where most oftheir dialogue come from.
You ever watch interviews with them?
It's an intriguing listen tosee that creative process.
We're like, we know we want totell this overarching story, right?
We have this treatment that wewant to deal with.
(22:19):
And then when you startputting in a screenplay format, like
that's difficult because yougot to go from Act 1, 23 plus, you
got to get all these scenes down.
How does this drive the movie?
So listening to them talkabout the fact that they didn't even
know what the hell they weregoing to do and see in Act 3.
Now I will say again to justmy annoyance, and this is me as a
personal thing watching a movie.
(22:39):
Like, I wish they could havetone, like honed in on a couple of
different options that hadhappened versus who the knows what
happened truly on this islandover this.
Like, who's the blonde kid?
That's the.
My interpretation is thatthat's the dude that he let drown.
But yeah, I was wonderingbecause he's.
(23:00):
The only one that saw him.
But I don't know because theother guy we saw that could have
been was at least charactersthat were named and talked about
was the other guy that he replaced.
But we see his head in thecrab pat the crab trap.
So it's like.
But again, you gotta.
Did he actually see thatdude's head and this guy just lost
(23:22):
his from start to finish?
No idea.
And then you gotta wonder,like, the other part that got me
was when he's reading in hisjournals, like, because I'll be honest,
when he busted in and startedreading the dude's journals, like,
that was my ent.
Like the introduction of.
I was expecting some weird tobe in the.
In the journals.
Like, that's where I wasthinking, like, he would drop a name
(23:42):
or something that you're like,that's who's up in that tower, right?
But instead we just get thisguy's a shitty worker.
And like.
And I'm like, okay, so myquestion, and this is where I think
the thing that I landed on isthat Robert Pattinson's character
is actually the one that's crazy.
And he comes there and theguy's cuckoo for cocoa puffs from
start to finish.
(24:02):
And Willem Dafoe is having todeal with this dude, and in order
to try to keep himself safe,he's trying to eat.
They're having this powerdynamic issue where he's like, no,
I'm the boss.
You're nuts.
Shut your pie hole and staythe around.
And he has to limit.
Like, you don't want him in atower with you up there.
That's a very limited areawith a lot of danger involved, right?
So that's how I kind of was.
(24:24):
Like, okay, this is my interpretation.
I don't think Willem Dafoe's characters.
I think he's weird, right?
That he's a weird dude basedon what he does.
But I don't think he's thereal crazy one.
I think that's RobertPattinson's character.
And we're just piecingtogether like how Robert Pattinson's
character's mind goes to.
I'm coming here, startingfresh, getting away from this situation
(24:45):
that I was in, but puttingmyself right back in that situation.
We see the violent tendencies.
We see.
Yeah, but how do you explainthe alcohol though?
Because if you're feeling theways Tom, whatever his last name
is, when the foes character.
I won't begin shiz face drunkwith someone, I feel like could shank
me like three seconds later.
Alcoholics are alcoholics, dude.
(25:05):
If he's to that point thathe's drinking like a fish, like that
he's drinking, that's the onething he won't be able to stop.
Because that's a.
That's a disease.
You know what I mean?
Like, that's not somethingwhere he can control.
Then he better part of thereason might die.
Well, for sure.
But that's also part of thereason he probably feeds him the
alcohol.
Right.
Because if they're both faced,then they're on a level playing field,
(25:26):
at least in the alcoholics mind.
But monkey juice.
I will.
Yeah, I will say that.
What one scene that got methat I was like.
Because I was borderlinealcoholic for a while.
I mean, matzah, you knew me inthose days.
I don't know, you probablylistened to me in some of those days.
But I didn't.
You didn't know me.
But like I drank a lot and I.
(25:49):
What made me like laugh in avery sad way was when they drank
the turpentine mist.
Like the cleaning turp.
Yeah.
I was gonna ask about that.
Like the concoction they madewith honey.
Honey?
Yeah.
Is that what you're talkingabout, Jay?
When they made that drink.
Yeah.
Because they ran out of alk.
They actually.
What is that?
(26:09):
I think it's turpentine.
It's whatever he was using toclean, which back then would have
been turpentine.
We still use turpentine, butthey mix it with honey.
And it does have some level ofalcohol content.
But.
But that's.
That's alcoholism for you.
Like, I have a good friendthat was trying to get clean and
(26:30):
drank hand sanitizer andtrying to keep alcohol.
Like that's just that level.
So I watched that and I had avery sad chuckle because I was like,
I had never been there to that level.
But I've had friends that were.
And That's a sad state ofaffairs when you are willing to drink
(26:51):
something that potentiallycould kill you rather easily in order
to get that fix.
Like.
Well, the Internet saysturpentine contains no alcohol.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
I didn't know that.
I assumed that anything thathad that level of cleaning power
and burn my nose smell wouldhave some level of.
(27:11):
Alcohol considered toxic if.
If ingested.
So.
Yeah, well, something that they.
Yeah.
So there's.
There's a whole nother levelwhere they drink.
It was monkey juice,turpentine the entire time.
Could have been.
It's.
I mean, who knows?
Yeah.
And maybe that's what wascreating the.
(27:34):
You know, the.
The visions and the hallucinations.
I.
I don't know.
There's just so many.
Yeah.
Different routes you couldtake with this whole thing that I'm
like, oh, it's exhausting tokind of think through.
I thought we were going to geta little bit more like, something
actually scary or truly eerieor something of that nature, because
(27:56):
it definitely.
The scene.
Like you were saying, Jay, what.
Like, what was really up inthe lighthouse?
Was there actually something there?
I think I was a little letdown that there wasn't something.
I think there could have beenmore payoff there because I kind
of was conditioned to expectsomething like that.
And I think that's definitelya little bit more.
My letdown was where the waythe movie ended, I was kind of just
like, oh, that's.
(28:17):
That's it.
Like, all right.
Yeah, I think that's how I felt.
I get it.
And I agree.
Not me, Alexa.
I don't care.
I didn't need to see the monster.
Did he stick his hand in the.
The flame or, like, what was that?
(28:38):
When he was yelling and, like,when he was looking at the light,
what do we think that was?
I don't know.
Like, and I think that's where.
I think he was just screaming.
And that's another one whereyou can.
Like, there's so manyinterpretations of it.
He was in my head.
He was screaming because therewas nothing but a light.
Right.
Like, so why in his mind, whydid he keep him out?
(28:59):
And then he had to.
Like, he was a complete nutterto this guy.
Like, it ends.
Their relationship ends theway it ends.
And so, like, with a freakingax to the head.
So it's just like.
But then he went up.
So he.
He's in the same situationthat he left previously, only for
nothing.
Because he gets up there andit's just the light.
Right.
(29:19):
But, like, who knows?
I mean, you could say that hesaw something in the light that freaked
him out and then he blacks outbecause of whatever and ends up on
the Roc dead.
I mean, you just don't know, right?
And that's the part that I'm like.
It's just weird that there'sno, there's no even options for what
it could have happened.
(29:40):
Like he just, whatever he seesout there, he doesn't like or makes
him scream or whatever, youknow, interpretation you want to
run with.
But I.
Yeah, because all we see ishis face.
You just don't know.
A weird choice.
It's a weird choice, but theEggers boys are weird people when
(30:02):
it comes to their writing.
And so Reddit says what theywere drinking was lighter fluid.
Yeesh.
No, thank you.
I don't think there's anyamount of honey that can make that
taste good.
No.
Well, I mean there's nobody ona honey that could take.
Make turpentine taste good either.
But lighter fluid, like, Idon't know that I would.
(30:24):
I don't know.
I guess it's all flammable, but.
All right, so the alcohol usedin lighter fluid composition of the
invention will generalcomprise approximately between 0.5
weight percentage andapproximately 98.
Wait, hold on.
So there's a lot of alcohol in here?
Potentially a lot.
It's 0.5.
There's nothing.
Yeah, it's.
(30:45):
It varies between the brands.
Yeah, 0.5 is like the same asa beer.
Yeah, no, it just depends onthe brand.
But I guess their brand back then.
Oh, I'm sure back then, likethey didn't try to, they didn't have
all.
These like petroleum basedoptions that we, we have today.
So my guess is it probably washeavily alcoholic based.
(31:08):
I'm.
I'm sure it was.
Well, and it, it would need toburn depending on what they're using
it for, but.
And they were using it to keepthat fire going.
I'm sure if that's what theywere using was the, the lighter fluid.
But I mean, I did that same tomy buddy drinking hand sanitizer.
(31:29):
So I, you know, I did have mylimits, but a lot of alcoholics don't
at that point.
But yeah, weird movie.
And I will say the best partof this movie regardless is like
the dynamics between the two.
Like if I were to take out theending and the fact that I don't
know what the hell's going onand then the weird, like the mermaid
(31:54):
sex and the jerk off scenelike that, I, to me, serve no purpose.
I.
Come on, you Guys know me.
I'm all for a sex scene andnudity and all that if there's a
purpose behind it.
But I felt like that scene wasfor nothing other than shock value.
And I'm like, I don't love that.
But the dynamic between thesetwo characters, and I think that
(32:15):
comes from the ability forthese actors to do a lot with little.
Because it's not like there'sa ton of dialogue either.
And a lot of the dialoguethat's There is this 1890s Northeast
maritime speech.
Right.
Like, so it's like the sailor speak.
So you time.
I'm like, what the are theyeven saying?
(32:36):
But I could tell theintentions between these two.
And so kudos to these twobecause they.
They rocked it.
And I'm with you.
Matt said, like, I.
I was forced to watch the.
The Twilight movies for Casey,and they're terrible, and I hated
him in them.
Like, I.
I was like, I will never watchanything with him in it.
But I.
(32:58):
To his credit, like, there was a.
Oh, I forget the name of it now.
Anyway, there's one where he'sin New York.
It's a weird.
It's another littleindependent film.
Kind of strange.
Let me look and see.
Because now it's gonna botherme if I don't remember it was between
Twilight movies.
Remember Me.
(33:19):
Movie called Remember Me.
Very sad.
Did not.
It was one of the twist moviesthat I was not that when it happened,
the ending happened, I wentshut the up.
I did not see that coming at all.
And it was very sad, but veryinteresting movie.
And so I saw that Casey mademe watch that because she loved Pattinson.
(33:41):
And I was like, oh, he'sactually really good in this.
And then he did Water for Elephants.
And from then on, I was like,I'm sold.
He's really good.
And he's done nothing that I'mlike, everything since then.
He's just been amazing.
He's a great actor.
He's definitely someone thatchanged their fate, which hard to
do.
(34:01):
Yeah.
He hung in there and.
And really kind of camethrough the.
You made Twilight?
Oh, he didn't even talk aboutfreaking Batman, for instance.
Sure.
I thought he was great in that too.
Yeah.
I still think my favoriteperformance from him is Tenant.
Like, oh, he was.
He.
He made that movie for me.
Like, he was awesome.
(34:23):
I liked it a lot.
We talked about.
I thought it was great.
But he was the best part ofthat movie, in my opinion.
Oh, I remember because I wasthe one.
I hadn't seen some of hisothers because we Did a lot of his
other movies after that.
I was blown away by him, and Iwas like, I never knew he could do
that.
Had no idea.
And I love John David Washington.
He's amazing.
But Robert Patson steals that movie.
(34:44):
Every scene he's in, he justchews it up.
So I was really excitedbecause Willem Dafoe is one of my
favorite actors, period.
Like, I love all the weird he does.
I've seen a lot of weirdmovies that Willem Dafoe's done because
of Willem Dafoe.
Like, movies that I walk awaygoing, I should not have watched
that.
But because he's in it, I'llwatch it.
(35:06):
Is he a weird dude in real life?
I don't know.
Like, I don't.
Based on the interviews I've seen.
No.
He seems like a pretty normal dude.
He just seems like he has therange and he enjoys being, you know.
How I feel about people.
I can do that.
Can exude that level of like aMel Gibson something.
He was really zoned in.
I just always believe those people.
(35:27):
Yeah.
Just there's a screw that.
If you're that good, something.
Something's slightly off with you.
Yeah, I get that.
I get well into Falcon.
Fit a lot of skittles in hismouth that I do know.
Yeah, he's a.
He's got a very large mouthand he's done some weird.
Like he did one trying toremember the name of it.
The.
The Antichrist.
(35:48):
He.
That was a very strange movie.
Very strange movie.
And a lot of nudity.
And I don't recommend thatbefore he met him.
But it's a weird.
It's a strange movie, Alec.
You might like that movie.
It's very odd movies.
It's.
It's got a lot of very goodcharacter progression type stuff.
(36:10):
Like very character driven,very strange hallucinogenic type.
It was funny because there waslike a.
There's a rumor that there's alot of full front and frontal nudity
in that movie.
And there's a rumor that theyused a body double for his character
because his dick's too big.
(36:32):
And then I've read ones whereit's like, it's got an odd shape
to it or something.
Like it's a weird look, and sothat's why they did it.
But, like, the prevailing,like, rumor is that his dick's too
big and that's why they usethe body double for him.
But why would that be a bad thing?
I have no idea.
Because it's.
Because it's shocking and ittakes away from the movie like you.
All you think about is how bigWillem Dafoe's dick.
(36:55):
I have no idea.
But that's.
That's the prevailingsentiment is that that's why.
Could you imagine being thatbody double?
We need you to come in and befull frontal because.
Because your dick is small.
Because the hammer over herecan't be on camera.
This is a bad premise for a movie.
An unnamed couple have sex intheir Seattle apartment while their
(37:17):
unsupervised infant son Nickclimbs up to the bedroom window and
falls out to its death.
Wow.
I told you it's a up movie.
It's very specific.
Yeah, it's a up movie.
I think it's the same guy.
I'm trying to remember whomade that one too, because it was
the.
Oh, it's the same guy that did.
(37:37):
There was like a two partmovie that a lot of pretty big actors
at the time were in, includingWillem Dafoe, I think.
What's the damn name of that movie?
Oh, Nymphomaniac.
Same guy that did made themovies, the movie Nymphomaniac.
(37:57):
He makes very strange movies.
I don't recommend that.
I watched part one ofNymphomaniac and I couldn't bring
myself to watch part twobecause I saw no point in it.
It just was a.
To me it was just a reason tohave a bunch of gratuitous nudity
and weird sex.
(38:17):
Trying to do a characterprogression with an actual nymphomaniac
and I'm like, I, you know,look, just don't know that that worked
for me at least.
So very weird movie.
But anyway, I love these two.
I love the dynamic between thetwo of them.
Even though it's a reallyweird movie.
Yeah, the.
(38:38):
This movie you're talking about.
Jj.
I know which one does the one.
Antichrist.
Yeah.
Yeah, I'll.
I'll pass for sure.
You've now seen the movie.
Just reading the two paragraphsummary on Wikipedia.
Yeah, you should.
It's very.
It's.
It's not an easy watch.
That's why I say Alec.
(38:59):
Where can I stream it?
Alec would probably reallylike it.
I.
Because it's.
It's your.
It's in the vein of.
Of what's that movie Snuffmade us watch for the Patreon.
Oh, vulgar.
Yeah, it's.
It's in that vein wherethere's just a lot of.
What's just uncomfortable.
(39:19):
Then smashes a large block ofwood onto his erect penis causing
him to lose consciousness.
She then masturbates him untilhe ejaculate blood.
I told you, it's a weird.
She drills a hole through hisleg, bolting a heavy grindstone through
the wound, and tosses thewrench she used under the cabin.
(39:44):
This sounds like.
What's the clown movie withthe saw type stuff, dude.
I'm like, it's.
It's rough, dude.
It's a weird movie.
I know what I'm watchingtonight, Alec.
Let me know how you like it,because I will say this Willem Dafoe
is masterful in it.
(40:04):
Like, he.
I cannot stress enough.
I could not take my eyes offthe screen no matter what weird ass
was happening.
Willem Defoe kills it.
He's a weird dude.
And that is by far one of theweirdest movies I've ever watched.
She cuts her clitoris off andthey show that.
(40:28):
It'S a weird movie, dude.
How's that rated R?
It should be, like, rated.
Don't see this?
Is it only rated R?
I thought it was an NC17, butlet's see.
I might have just skipped over that.
I don't.
I don't remember that guydoing anything that's just rated
R anymore.
(40:50):
It doesn't even say so.
It's probably whatever you'retalking about.
Oh, my God.
It's.
It's not she, dude.
This is.
Yeah, this.
This is the type.
Alec would probably love this girl.
Oh, yeah.
It's a weird.
Don't threaten me with a good time.
I'll be interested to hearwhat you think, because like I said,
(41:13):
it's a strange.
It's a.
It's.
It's something.
It made me uncomfortable farmore than Lars von Trier.
That's the.
The writer, director, and he'snever done anything that's not, like,
make you question yourexistence type.
(41:34):
Like, beautiful.
He is.
He is a strange son of a.
You'd probably love all of hismovies because they're.
There's something wrong withhim in all the best ways from a creative
perspective.
But anyway, back to the lighthouse.
Are we ready to rate this thing?
(41:55):
I think we are.
All right.
Now that I've completely andutterly disturbed Matson with the
Antichrist, the film thatshook the world.
Shocked the world.
Yeah, I can.
That tracks.
Shooketh the world.
All right, I'm first.
So rate this first, becauseit's your pick.
(42:21):
I'm gonna give it a two.
Almost gave it a two and a half.
Wow.
I'm impressed.
Yeah, I'm gonna give it a two.
It would have been a two and ahalf a day if this movie wasn't so
long.
But I was conditioned to knowthat this movie was the aspect ratio
(42:43):
on the black and white.
But for whatever reason,because of what they were trying
to portray, I could get behind it.
I was like, all right, I don't know.
But like Zack Snyder justintentionally doing that to a movie
has no reason have an aspectlike that are being black and white.
That just pisses me off.
There's nothing.
No reason to do that except hejust thinks he's the coolest director
(43:04):
on the planet.
This movie.
I'm like, well, what it wouldhave looked like if they had tried
to film this in the 1890s,even though technology didn't exist.
But it's fine with me.
So I was behind that.
Phenomenal actors, weirdmovie, slow movie, eerie in a good
way.
And the lacks direction.
And I thought the.
(43:24):
The ending was just.
It could have been more.
It really could have been.
And I wanted it to be more.
And that's where if it had areally intriguing.
Any like a lot of what JJ wastalking about, like some supernatural
spin or something.
Like, I think this movie couldhave been elevated quite a bit.
I think it could have beensomething that I was hoping for it
to be, but it just didn't havethe shock and awe that I was really
(43:45):
hoping for at the end.
So for that, I think Iprobably surprised people giving
it a 2.
Like, I'll never watch itagain, but, like, there's a lot to
talk about.
It's an interesting premiseand I think they did a good job.
But it's definitely not amainstream movie.
So for my people out there,like, probably not gonna enjoy it,
(44:06):
but if you do want to watchit, like.
The people enjoyed it.
Madsen, I think you're gonnabe pleasantly surprised to an extent.
No, the people didn't enjoyit, Alex.
The people did enjoy it.
The people that are you peopleor the what reads you site would.
Yes, the movie festival peopleor people that watch the Lars von
(44:26):
Trier's Antichrist peopleprobably would enjoy it.
And we don't want to be those people.
How can you say you're of thepeople if you don't listen to the
people?
Yeah, of the people has toinclude all people, sir.
I'm talking about normal people.
Define normal, not Alex.
People is what I'm trying to say.
(44:47):
Most of JJ's people I vibe with.
It's just sometimes JJ straysoff the beaten path.
Anyways, I digress.
I'm going too long.
I gave it a 2.
Matson represents the lemming people.
No, I'm just kidding.
Alec, your turn, buddy.
Tell us what you thought.
What do you rate this?
I like this movie.
It was weird.
It was fun.
It was out there.
(45:08):
I don't need the supernatural ending.
Just the crazy gaslighting andgoing slowly insane is enough for
me.
I'm gonna give this movie a four.
Wow.
I think it was really, really good.
I don't know if it's somethingI can watch frequently, but I'm definitely
(45:29):
throwing this back on and justsitting there and enjoying it because
it was really good.
I liked it.
Nice.
Oh, man.
I'm gonna give it a two and a half.
And I.
I think I would have reallyscored this high if I had a couple
of options to choose from onwhat happened.
(45:52):
And, like, I'll even.
I'll spend my review, like, myscoring time saying what I would
have liked to have had happen.
My ending.
If I were ending this film, hewould have been staring into the
lighthouse and having this,like, realization of how cuckoo he
was, how nuts he was, andgoing back to.
(46:13):
And change for reframing inhis own mind the story that he told
the Willem Dafoe about thisforeman that he let drown and have
it be that he activelymurdered him.
And, like, it's this cyclethat he goes through, right?
Like, that's what I thinkwould have driven me to be, like,
this was great because thewhole time, up until a certain point,
(46:34):
I would have been blamingWillem Dafoe for the reason that
this guy's losing his marbles.
But instead.
And the.
The environment, right?
Willem Dafoe and the environment.
But instead, it turns out he'sthe guy that's the problem from the
beginning.
And you don't have to give itthat level of definition that I'm
talking about.
But, like, that's how I wouldhave ended it.
Right now, I'm not the mostleave it ambiguous guy, so I would
(46:55):
have clean turned it aroundand have him go to this flashback
where he's actively the problem.
And, like, even to the pointwhere maybe it's his own journal
that he thinks is.
He's read Will, you know whatI mean?
Like, every piece of thingsthat make you think Willem Defo is
the problem is somemanifestation of him being the problem.
And he's going through thiscycle again and again, right?
(47:16):
Where he goes to a new placeand somebody ends up dying, but it's
under, you know, weirdcircumstances that can be explained
as not his problem.
Anyway, that's how I wouldhave done this.
And I think if it had donesomething of that level or where
I Could have at leastspeculated between a couple of different
things and not have tocompletely create my own ideas around
(47:36):
what happened.
I don't love that having to do that.
I get why they did it.
I understand that that's forsome people.
Like they're okay with thatlevel of ambiguity.
I just not.
I think I would have scored itaround a 4 or 5.
I do think there's someunnecessary like a 5.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves.
Jay.
I would have been close if ithad had a good solid ending that
(47:59):
explained things.
Even if it was a weird asslike alien in the.
You know what I mean?
Like I don't care what it was.
Like if you had given me somereason for what we had been doing
all this, besides two guysjust losing it, I, I would have probably
because I really enjoyed thedynamic and, and I'm with Alec.
(48:21):
We've talked about this before.
I love a movie watching peopledigress into psychoses.
Like I think that is such aninteresting concept and that's terrible
of me to say but if I couldsit and study someone that's slowly
going crazy, I would be morethan interested in that because I
think that level of watchingpeople's minds deteriorate, that
(48:43):
deterioration level isinteresting to me.
That says a lot about me, I'm sure.
But it intrigues me.
Right.
And so the fact that I don'tunderstand why is hard for me.
And that's a me thing.
But it's hard for me.
And so I.
That's where I mark it down.
But I think based on how itwas acted, I think the things that
would have kept me going werethe unnecessary jerking off scene
(49:04):
and not even necessarily theunnecessary jerking obviously, but
the length of that scene andthen like the weird giant mermaid
vagina inside.
Like it was weird.
Like there were some visualsthat I was like that doesn't add
value to this movie.
This is just Robert Eggersbeing a weirdo.
Like that's all that was.
And when I have to.
(49:24):
When I, when it pulls me meback and I go, you're just being
weird now.
Like that's when I, I can'tgive it a full on five.
So I think if you get rid ofsome of that, that was unnecessary.
And then add some at leastless ambiguous stuff to the ending.
I could have given it a fouror four and a half, maybe a five,
(49:44):
depending on how much youpulled out of it.
But I didn't even feel thelength like magic because it's only
an hour like 49 minute moviewhich is right there in the sweet
spot.
But I could get where it wouldfeel long.
It didn't feel long to me, butit was weird.
And it was so weird and I justlost like, I have no interest in
watching it again because Iknow how frustrated I'm gonna feel
(50:06):
at the end of these greatperformances and very interesting,
eerie movie that to me goesnowhere, like, has no purpose and
doesn't allow me to even leantowards something.
So that's why it's getting atwo and a half for me.
But I was expecting way worse.
So maybe that's part of thereason I was pleasantly surprised
when, when Madsen picked it, Iwas like, it's like I've kind of
(50:29):
actively avoided this moviebecause I watched the Witch and I
know how weird Eggers gets.
But yeah, I can't complainabout watching it.
I liked it, especially forthis topic.
It was a good way to kick offthe year.
So well done.
Matt's a good pick.
Even though you may not agreewith it being a good pick on your
(50:50):
end.
I liked it.
All right, well, I'm excitedfor the rest of the month and for
the rest of the year.
Really lots of good, goodstuff to choose from.
Excited.
Got some good topics lined upfor the first few months with that.
Alec, tell everybody wherethey can find us.
Happy to jj.
So thank you for tuning intoour review of the Lighthouse 2025
(51:11):
kicking off with OriginalScreenplay Month.
Matson has made sure westarted off bad, or at least he tried
to anyway.
So thanks for that, Matson.
Thanks to our current patrons,Rich and JJ's low hanging glistening
Christmas balls for pickingthe topic of original screenplays
and the first movie.
So I think we can blame JJ'sglistening low hanging Christmas
(51:34):
balls for this pick as well.
But I'm still gonna blame Matson.
Things you can blame for yeah,low hanging glistening Christmas
balls.
So Patreon is a place to getinvolved, guys.
Every month we have topics tochoose from, topics to suggest, and
any kind of topic that you want.
And then we pick movies withinthat topic that you then get to vote
(51:57):
on as well.
So join us there.
What's our verdict?
Reviews to get really involvedin the content that we make.
With that I will kick it backto the Titan of Terror, the Wazir
of Wap A jj.
Yeah, thanks Alec.
Appreciate that.
We do appreciate our Patreons.
Our patrons are.
They keep us going.
They make it a lot easier tocontinue making the podcast.
(52:17):
So if you want us to keepdoing it, want to help that out,
we'd appreciate It.
Plus you get to have a lot offun over there.
It's a.
It's a whole different world.
My inappropriateness is onfull go on the that side.
I don't hold back at all.
You guys probably listen tothis and go.
He holds back.
I do, actually.
Hey, we were once labeled as awholesome family entertainment, but
(52:40):
yeah, that must.
Have been without me because.
Certainly not.
A real dark road when you weregone for a while there.
Certainly not this episode.
No.
Yeah, this one got weird.
Yeah, wholesome familyentertainment turned left way too
long ago.
That's fair.
I've just been dragging yourwholesome asses my direction the
(53:02):
whole time.
Little did you know, I've beenwatering you down.
Maybe not, Alec.
I thought I was until.
You're making me a better person.
Alex.
Actually making me look good sometimes.
JJ's not as crazy as he thinkshe is.
Yeah.
But yeah, go join us there on Patreon.
It's fun.
And we appreciate those thathave been there and are listening
(53:25):
to us.
We're growing rapidly.
I'm on.
I mean, we're pushing 400.
I know that sounds so easily, but.
Yeah, we started with zero.
I know.
Yeah.
Well, we went from like 300 to 360.
I think we're up to 360 now.
We're getting up there towhere it's like the last, like few.
We've been climbing pretty quick.
So we appreciate those thathave now subscribed to us here on.
(53:47):
On YouTube, those that watchus and those that listen.
Thank you.
So thank you for being andlisten to the.
Your man and the people.
So I appreciate that, everybody.
Thanks for getting the trueopinions as well.
You know, if anybody's aMatson fan, please let me know.
I want to meet you.
Well, we know at least one.
(54:09):
So with that, as always, weappreciate you tuning in.
We'll catch you on the next LA.
Means that you're man of thepeople status is in jeopardy.
Oh, dude, how many peopleactually watched it, though?
They gave it a 72% fresh rating.
Over a thousand verified ratings.
Yeah, okay, but those are thepeople that.
The only people that areputting reviews up on rotten tomatoes
and IMDb people are peoplelike you, JJ.
(00:27):
Welcome to the what's up Everypodcast we fashion ourselves cinematic
judge and jury.
My name is J.J.
crowder.
I'm here with my co hosts, Matzer.
Better Red Than Dead, and Alec Burgess.
Let's get it.
We appreciate you tuning in.
Go hit that follow, subscribelike bell notification buttons.
Tell a friend about us.
Tell a family member about us.
(00:48):
A couple of cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs.
Lighthouse guys about us.
Yeah, that's all I got.
I don't know how else to sayit, but yeah.
We're kicking off 2025 andJanuary, our new month, officially.
What was this month?
(01:08):
Like, original.
Oh, that's right.
Original screenplay.
So movies with original screenplays.
So none of this, like, sequel or.
Yeah, it's got to be anoriginal idea that came through,
which made for someinteresting choices, not the least
of which was this first onewe're reviewing, the Lighthouse.
(01:30):
It was released November 1, 2019.
It was written and directed byRobert and Max Eggers.
Directed by Robert Eggers.
And then it starred RobertPattinson, Willem Dafoe.
There's a list, I guess.
Valeria Cameron, Logan Hawks,Kyla Nicole, Sean Clark.
(01:52):
And I'm gonna stop therebecause the rest of them, they even
have a seagull on the list, sothat tells you how big this cast
list was.
It's about two lighthousekeepers who try to maintain their
sanity while living on aremote and mysterious New England
island in the 1890s.
Matson, this was your pick, sotake it away, buddy.
(02:14):
Why'd you pick this movie?
Look, I wanted to be somethingthat was not in my wheelhouse.
And while it certainly wasn't,I think I'm reminded why I do stay
in my wheelhouse.
Because this movie probablywas seen by, like, three people,
and they regret watching it.
And so did I.
Hate to break it to you, dude,but he gets a 7.
(02:36):
4.
7.4 out of 10.
So somebody likes it.
These are people, probablylike our co host Alec, that need,
like, a sanity check.
Hold up.
Cause this is actually a good story.
It's a good movie.
The problem is, is it tried totake an indie idea and turn it into
(02:57):
a blockbuster, which is nevera good idea.
Well, I mean.
Okay, so let's jump over.
I was going through IMDb,which admittedly gets more reviews
from critics than it does fromnormal people typically.
But on Rotten Tomatoes, whichgives both gets a 90 fresh and a
(03:19):
72 from a viewer rating.
So to say that it wasn'tpopular means that you're man of
the people status is in jeopardy.
Oh, dude.
How many people actuallywatched it though?
They gave it a 72 fresh rating.
Over a thousand verified ratings.
Yeah, okay, but those are thepeople that.
The only people that areputting reviews up on rotten tomatoes
(03:42):
and IMDb people are peoplelike you, JJ that actually do that.
The movie.
Let's talk about revenue.
How much movie did this money make?
Jay, how much movie did thismoney make?
I don't know.
How much movie.
How much money did this?
Hey, I sound like them whenthey get hallucinatory.
We'll just spin words and thenlet me add a thanky on top of that.
Well, which money did it make?
(04:03):
So if you want to talk aboutmoney, you have to.
You can't just talk aboutmoney made because independent films
have their own.
Yeah, you can't say criteria.
I know.
If you're going to compare it,you have to compare apples to apples
and say a.
In an independent world.
And in an independent world,it's very rare to actually make a
ton of money.
(04:24):
This mo movie grossed 9million over what its budget was.
8 million.
9 million.
So in an independent world,especially a small, weird independent
film like this that'stechnically has no genre.
Like it doesn't list as anything.
You can go to different placesand they all list it as something
different.
Psychological, thriller, a horror.
(04:44):
It's.
There is no genre and it wasnot defined by the movie's creators.
So it's a decent amount ofmoney for an independent film.
Especially black and whitethat was filmed in.
Not quite one to one aspect ratio.
But yeah, I.
I can't say it was a flop.
(05:05):
I mean it didn't make itsmoney back, but it was close.
I mean, I'm not here to say itwas a flop.
I'm not here to say it wasn't interesting.
It's just was an odd movie,but that's what it was always supposed
to be.
It wasn't anything but that.
Sure.
Well, and it's based off of a.
An unfinished short story byPoe, which makes it weird right out
(05:30):
the gate.
And by saying base, thatdoesn't remove the.
Like when I save unfinished.
The short story had like apage and it never got past the introduction
of characters.
Like, it's not like there wassome source material here that they
were able to build off oflike, it was like, okay, here's a
story about a couple guys onan island with a lighthouse.
(05:51):
Go.
So that's why it can still fitwithin the original screenplay.
The real question we all wantto know is would you.
Would you not bang the mermaid?
No, dude.
100 I'm banging the mermaid.
No, not when you know, like,the actual history of mermaids.
They're.
They're out to kill you.
(06:11):
Like, I'm not banging the mermaid.
Especially with like, hergiant fishtail vagina.
Weird.
That was the weirdest visual scene.
This entire.
The jerk off scene was really weird.
Like, it ranks up there withsome, like, dolphin sex conversation.
Like, really.
Well, the other one, when Tomwas up in the lighthouse and that
(06:35):
sticky substance fell down,I'm assuming was that sperm.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because he was like on shroomsand doing his thing.
I was like, oh, man.
Poof.
Yeah.
It's a weird movie.
There's some weird.
I mean, I don't know.
Alec, why do you like this movie?
(06:56):
Because I can tell that you enjoyed.
Because it's weird.
That's why I liked it.
We are talking to you thatloved Rubber Robert.
It was weird.
It was out there.
I will say I was.
I actually didn't really likeboth Willem Dafoe and Robert Pattinson
in this.
I think having those two, Imean, they're great, right?
(07:16):
They're phenomenal actors.
They did a phenomenal job.
But for this specific type ofmovie, I think one of them has to
be unknown.
Either get an or just lessknown because they.
Having both of them.
You're trying to sell tickets100 with using both of them.
And then you get the problemwhere I'm gonna say you're.
(07:39):
You're Matsons, right?
Go to the movie and they'reexpecting Robert Pattinson and Willem
Dafoe and what they get issomething strange.
And so then you're justdisappointed because you're expecting
something completely different.
Right?
It's almost like a bait andswitch with what they're giving you.
(07:59):
Versus this is a chance for,like, to really rely on the independent
story, which the story isfucking strange, but also kind of
cool.
Like, I.
Tell us the story, Alec.
What's the story here?
The absolute gaslighting byWillem Dafoe's character, like, got
(08:20):
me for the first half of thefilm where he's like, oh, yeah, we've
been.
We missed the boat by two weeks.
I'm like, what?
Okay, maybe they're gonna say.
And then you get it later.
Where it's like, dude, youjust smashed up the boat and you
chased me around with an ax.
And then you have to question,what is this guy actually done versus
what is he saying that's been done?
(08:41):
And so the whole justmanipulation, gaslighting that goes
on, I was just intrigued theentire time.
I was like, this dude's pureevil, and I'm here for it.
I think that's what triggeredme, like, the most of this movie
is.
And triggers the wrong word.
But, like, what kept mewatching the movie with interest
(09:03):
versus trying to do somethingelse was, like, the first 90 minutes
of this movie.
Like, I'm wondering what the.
Is at the top of this.
I'm expecting some sort of,like, Lovecraftian, because we keep
seeing the mermaids, and thenwe see the.
You know, the tentacles.
And, like, I'm like this.
(09:25):
I'm feeling this, like,serious HP Lovecraft vibe.
So I'm expecting.
And then he won't let him inthe upper tower.
So I'm like, there's got to be some.
Within the light of the tower,like some demon God or.
You know what I mean?
Like, Cthulhu's up there orsome, right?
Like, that's what I keep thinking.
And what I was aiming for is,like, that's why.
(09:45):
So we know why the Tom.
Like, the young guy's crazy, right?
Like, we know why his.
He's cuckoo because he's stuckon his island with a psychopath or
what.
Seems that way to your pointout, getting gaslit and, like, bossed
around.
And, like, the constant, like,power dynamic that's going on is
(10:06):
really weird.
And then you find more outabout his character later where the
guy's actually a really big.
And then.
But, like, that's to me.
And then you've got this oldguy that, like, I'm like, okay, I
know why he's nuts, but why isWillem Defoe's characters nuts?
Because he's been doing thisfor years.
It's not like he.
This is his first rodeo.
Like, he's not new to this gig.
(10:28):
Like, so why is he nuts?
And then I'm thinking, okay,there's something.
Actually, the reason he won'tlet him up there is there's, like,
this God or this demon or thismonster of some sort that's controlling
him.
And that's where this otherpower dynamic.
So that's what I kept waiting for.
And then it's like, there's no answer.
And I.
I think that's where I get themost frustrated with independent
(10:49):
movies like this.
And I I shouldn't label itjust independent movies, but weird
ass movies like this,especially from like the Eggers Brothers,
because if you've ever watchedthe Witch, and I'm sure neither of
you have, it's the same.
And because Alec, you don'twant to watch that one.
That one's real.
This one has some creepy elements.
That one's geared towardscaring the out of your ass.
But like, it's a really goodfilm in the same vein as this in
(11:13):
that it.
There's no real answers to anything.
And that's where I get reallyfrustrated is it's like I understand
ambiguity and I'm okay with it.
What I'm not okay with is ahint of ambiguity and then nothing.
Like, it's not even ambiguous.
It's like you don't knowbecause at the very end, like he's
(11:36):
looking at the light and thenit cuts to him getting his eyeball
or his guts eaten by birds andyou're like, okay, hold on, how'd
we get here?
Is he hallucinating again?
Is he?
And so ambiguity to me meansthat I could figure out there's like
one of a handful of solutions.
I don't know what the going onby the end of this movie.
(11:57):
And that frustrates me.
Like I want to at least beable to debate the different options.
Yeah, well, I think what amovie that does it well is like for
me, in my opinion, like anInception where at the end then you're
left to wonder, well, is it,is it spinning?
Is it gonna stop?
Like it gives you, you havethat like.
Well, there's like one, two,maybe three options of where we could
talk about that a lot withyour friends, but I agree with you
(12:18):
here, Jay.
It's like the end.
And I was like, well, that wasa, that was a lot from like, that
was like an A to like Z type thing.
Like what, where, where,where'd that, where'd that come from?
Because I like the secondguessing of I'm with Alec on this.
The, the fact that like, well,how much of it actually happened?
Like, you're like, oh, that,that, that.
But nothing in this moviegives me enough grounding to actually
(12:41):
feel like I know what did ordidn't or have really, really any
hypothesis.
And I think that's at timeswhat gets really difficult because
this movie just felt weird forweird sake.
And I question if there wasintention behind that.
Or maybe I'm just too dumb toknow, but I mean, just left your
head kind of in a tizzy.
(13:03):
Yeah.
And I'M sure, Alec, you don'tgive a about that level of ambiguity?
Like, nope.
All I needed to know was it'sbad luck to kill a seabird.
And boy, does he.
Yeah, what a violent way tokill the sea.
I thought this movie was ratedR because of that.
I was like, damn animalviolence right there.
(13:24):
Beat the shiz out of that sequel.
He beat that thing like 10 times.
Yeah, that was a mess.
Even in black and white, youcould see all that blood.
That was a mess.
I will say one thing I do haveto compliment.
Well, there's a few things,one to a point.
You're talking about earlier,Alec, about the Matsons that are
(13:46):
expecting these amazingperformances by well known actors.
For me, one, William Defoe.
He was what I expected.
That dude can play some weird people.
Like, let's just call it what it.
I knew he.
I mean, now having seen thismovie, if I was a screen caster,
like, give me William Defoe.
The dude's already like twocuckoos from Cocoa Puffs.
Like, he's perfect.
(14:06):
He.
He probably was like, look,this is me on Friday night.
I'm like, probably is.
He was great.
But who I continue to beimpressed with.
And I know this movie came outyears ago now, but Robert Pattinson,
let's not forget, he wasextremely typecast to a very well
known movie trilogy that getsmade fun of, AKA Twilight.
(14:30):
But he's been from.
From Tenet to this to.
We reviewed that movie that hewas in that he was a pastor.
Remember that creepy pastor.
I remember what that movie was called.
We reviewed it Devil all the time.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And there's some other movies.
I should be able to name it.
He's a really good actor.
Like I just.
The monologue that he went onwhen he talked about the goddamn
farts.
(14:50):
Which one?
That was funny.
I was gonna text you, Jay, butI forgot.
Like, that part made me chuckle.
But that monologue he went onand the way, like he just.
When he wasn't talking, butthe way he looked into the camera
and like the physical acting,which it's not like John Wick acting,
but, you know, like, it's different.
Like, I was just reallyimpressed with him.
(15:11):
I expected William Defoe togive me what he gave me, but Robert
Pattinson in this movie just.
He's got dimensions.
He really does.
And I was.
I was captivated by his performance.
Not that William Dafoe didn'tdo great.
I just expected him to do itbecause he.
He is that.
But Robert Pattinson was awesome.
And then another thing I Likedabout this movie, the eeriness of
(15:33):
the, the shooting, it feltlike it was an old time movie.
Obviously it was by design,but they hit it on the head.
Like I.
The thing that.
One of the scenes I rememberthe most is when they had the camera
when they were walking, theywere walking up to the house for
the first time and what thatlooked like, that felt like an old
timey style shot and Iappreciated that.
(15:56):
And then the music and reallythe most reoccurring sound is the
foghorn.
Like, I mean that when Jaysaid this has shades of horror, this
one wasn't scary at all, butit, that it.
They did a good jobcaptivating the eeriness and keeping
you a little on edge.
Especially towards the beginning.
Like the first 30 minutes forme, you're still kind of feeling
(16:16):
out like, what the hell is happening?
And they did a great job with that.
And then that foghorn, eventowards the end, I thought that was
exceptional.
Yeah, the audio in it is unnerving.
Like the fact that there'sjust these sounds like that are just
obnoxious in the backgroundand then they'll pull them to the
(16:38):
foreground and then pull themback to the back.
But they're never absent fromthe movie.
Right?
And I think that's like toyour point, like that foghorn and
that like of the sound of thefreaking light spinning to like you
could hear that the whole timeand it starts to like, great.
And then it kind of goes awayfor a while because you get, you
(17:00):
know that resonance gets inyour ears and you're like, okay,
I'm used to it.
And then all of a sudden likehe'll, they'll push it to like, like
during the weird jerk off scene.
As much as I hate to talkabout that, like they bring all those
sounds to the foreground whilehe's like.
And I'm like, stop.
Like this just makes that thatmuch more uncomfortable.
(17:21):
And I, I will say that thismovie, to your point, I think it
goes to the audio and it goesto the filming.
As much as I hate 1 to 1 or119 1, which is what this actually
was.
Like that almost square aspect ratio.
Like that mixed with the blackand white and the really harsh black
(17:42):
and white.
Like it wasn't like a, atypical artistic black and white.
Like it's a harsh, darkerblack and white.
And then you add in the creepysounds that are constantly there.
And like I was uncomfortable alot of this movie, even when nothing
was going on.
Like, I'm just like, God, thismovie needs to hurry up and get over.
(18:03):
Because, like, I don't likewatching it.
Which really puts you in a.
A position to kind of relateto Robert Pattinson's character,
because you can tell he'slike, I don't want to be here.
And then it only gets worsewhen he kills the seagull.
And then, like, they'redelayed, right?
Like, they can't.
It's like, oh, God, this is horrible.
Like, we were one day fromgetting off this island, and now
(18:25):
we're stuck because of this storm.
And then, like, the fact thatthey're always in the rain after
that for that, the.
The duration of that big storm.
I'm like, God, I hate beingstuck in the rain.
Like, I'm the guy that'll sitin my car for a half an hour to wait
for the rain to slow down.
If I'm trying to go into agrocery store or something and it's
(18:46):
raining real bad, I'm like,I'm not going in.
Numb out.
And so, like, watching thatmade me uncomfortable.
So I will say from thatperspective, they did a really good
job of putting me in theposition that I feel like I could
relate to Robert Pattinson.
Patson's character isdiscomfort, right?
Which it was like, o, I don'tlike this at all.
(19:06):
And then on top of that, Ireally wanted to know what was up
in the top of the lighthouse.
So I was like, damn.
And then the only thing thatthrew me off was when he starts talking
about that when he tells the story.
Because my favorite, like,monologue of his, and I guess it
wasn't quite a monologue, butthe dialogue sequence where he's
telling his past, like, how hechanged his name and he watched that
(19:27):
Foreman drown, and he's justlike, I probably should have done
something, but I didn't want to.
I was like, this guy is justas cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs as William
Defo's character.
And I.
You know.
But all of a sudden, now weknow that it's not just this place
that's driving him crazy.
(19:47):
He was a little off before hegot there.
And so, yeah, I mean, from astorytelling perspective, it's an
interesting movie.
I can't deny that as much as Iwant to hate this movie.
Like, I was like, there'sactually some really good aspects
to this film that they didvery well.
Still not something I want torewatch just because it's, like,
(20:09):
not interesting enough to me.
But a first watch, I was like,okay, this is not my style at all,
but this was pretty well done.
For what it is not my style.
And let's be honest, thismovie, they could have taken out
20 minutes easy.
I mean there, there so manythings that if they wanted to condense
(20:29):
it a little bit not.
But I know that was by design.
I want you to look at things,I hear things.
You took this, shorten it by20 minutes.
I think this movie would havebeen more bearable and something
that I could have consideredlike, well, really good acting performances,
interesting subject matter,but the ambiguity and the length
and I don't know, I think attimes it's just, it's a little meandering
(20:51):
and slow and I think it's kind of.
I don't know.
To me it's kind of a one trick pony.
I don't know what I'm gonnasee a second time that like, oh,
wow, I missed that.
Like the ambiguity.
I know what it.
This all is because I don'teven know if the brothers who directed
this know what it all is.
They just wrote it and hopedwe interpreted it because that's
what they were hoping for.
Yeah, I was reading anarticle, an interview that they did
(21:14):
where they like, we didn'teven know what the third act was
going to be until we finishedputting dialogue on paper of the.
He's like, we had a goodtreatment for the first and second
act and then we started, right?
We were like, well, we can'tfigure out the third act.
And then we start writing thedialogue and then we're like, okay.
So now that the dialogue's allthere and the first two acts are
written in a screenplayformat, now we're ready to take on
(21:36):
the third because it, itreally dictated the direction that
they went for the third act.
And I'm like, that's how youknow that this like you just.
And, and to their point, like,I guess to their credit, like, that's
true creative process, right?
Like.
Because like, for example,Goodwill hunting was the same way.
Like they wrote most of thedialogue of that movie as they were
(21:57):
shooting it.
And they would sit around andMatt Damon and Ben Affleck would
have conversations like theywere the.
At like the characters in this movie.
And like that's where most oftheir dialogue come from.
You ever watch interviews with them?
It's an intriguing listen tosee that creative process.
We're like, we know we want totell this overarching story, right?
We have this treatment that wewant to deal with.
(22:19):
And then when you startputting in a screenplay format, like
that's difficult because yougot to go from Act 1, 23 plus, you
got to get all these scenes down.
How does this drive the movie?
So listening to them talkabout the fact that they didn't even
know what the hell they weregoing to do and see in Act 3.
Now I will say again to justmy annoyance, and this is me as a
personal thing watching a movie.
(22:39):
Like, I wish they could havetone, like honed in on a couple of
different options that hadhappened versus who the knows what
happened truly on this islandover this.
Like, who's the blonde kid?
That's the.
My interpretation is thatthat's the dude that he let drown.
But yeah, I was wonderingbecause he's.
(23:00):
The only one that saw him.
But I don't know because theother guy we saw that could have
been was at least charactersthat were named and talked about
was the other guy that he replaced.
But we see his head in thecrab pat the crab trap.
So it's like.
But again, you gotta.
Did he actually see thatdude's head and this guy just lost
(23:22):
his from start to finish?
No idea.
And then you gotta wonder,like, the other part that got me
was when he's reading in hisjournals, like, because I'll be honest,
when he busted in and startedreading the dude's journals, like,
that was my ent.
Like the introduction of.
I was expecting some weird tobe in the.
In the journals.
Like, that's where I wasthinking, like, he would drop a name
(23:42):
or something that you're like,that's who's up in that tower, right?
But instead we just get thisguy's a shitty worker.
And like.
And I'm like, okay, so myquestion, and this is where I think
the thing that I landed on isthat Robert Pattinson's character
is actually the one that's crazy.
And he comes there and theguy's cuckoo for cocoa puffs from
start to finish.
(24:02):
And Willem Dafoe is having todeal with this dude, and in order
to try to keep himself safe,he's trying to eat.
They're having this powerdynamic issue where he's like, no,
I'm the boss.
You're nuts.
Shut your pie hole and staythe around.
And he has to limit.
Like, you don't want him in atower with you up there.
That's a very limited areawith a lot of danger involved, right?
So that's how I kind of was.
(24:24):
Like, okay, this is my interpretation.
I don't think Willem Dafoe's characters.
I think he's weird, right?
That he's a weird dude basedon what he does.
But I don't think he's thereal crazy one.
I think that's RobertPattinson's character.
And we're just piecingtogether like how Robert Pattinson's
character's mind goes to.
I'm coming here, startingfresh, getting away from this situation
(24:45):
that I was in, but puttingmyself right back in that situation.
We see the violent tendencies.
We see.
Yeah, but how do you explainthe alcohol though?
Because if you're feeling theways Tom, whatever his last name
is, when the foes character.
I won't begin shiz face drunkwith someone, I feel like could shank
me like three seconds later.
Alcoholics are alcoholics, dude.
(25:05):
If he's to that point thathe's drinking like a fish, like that
he's drinking, that's the onething he won't be able to stop.
Because that's a.
That's a disease.
You know what I mean?
Like, that's not somethingwhere he can control.
Then he better part of thereason might die.
Well, for sure.
But that's also part of thereason he probably feeds him the
alcohol.
Right.
Because if they're both faced,then they're on a level playing field,
(25:26):
at least in the alcoholics mind.
But monkey juice.
I will.
Yeah, I will say that.
What one scene that got methat I was like.
Because I was borderlinealcoholic for a while.
I mean, matzah, you knew me inthose days.
I don't know, you probablylistened to me in some of those days.
But I didn't.
You didn't know me.
But like I drank a lot and I.
(25:49):
What made me like laugh in avery sad way was when they drank
the turpentine mist.
Like the cleaning turp.
Yeah.
I was gonna ask about that.
Like the concoction they madewith honey.
Honey?
Yeah.
Is that what you're talkingabout, Jay?
When they made that drink.
Yeah.
Because they ran out of alk.
They actually.
What is that?
(26:09):
I think it's turpentine.
It's whatever he was using toclean, which back then would have
been turpentine.
We still use turpentine, butthey mix it with honey.
And it does have some level ofalcohol content.
But.
But that's.
That's alcoholism for you.
Like, I have a good friendthat was trying to get clean and
(26:30):
drank hand sanitizer andtrying to keep alcohol.
Like that's just that level.
So I watched that and I had avery sad chuckle because I was like,
I had never been there to that level.
But I've had friends that were.
And That's a sad state ofaffairs when you are willing to drink
(26:51):
something that potentiallycould kill you rather easily in order
to get that fix.
Like.
Well, the Internet saysturpentine contains no alcohol.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
I didn't know that.
I assumed that anything thathad that level of cleaning power
and burn my nose smell wouldhave some level of.
(27:11):
Alcohol considered toxic if.
If ingested.
So.
Yeah, well, something that they.
Yeah.
So there's.
There's a whole nother levelwhere they drink.
It was monkey juice,turpentine the entire time.
Could have been.
It's.
I mean, who knows?
Yeah.
And maybe that's what wascreating the.
(27:34):
You know, the.
The visions and the hallucinations.
I.
I don't know.
There's just so many.
Yeah.
Different routes you couldtake with this whole thing that I'm
like, oh, it's exhausting tokind of think through.
I thought we were going to geta little bit more like, something
actually scary or truly eerieor something of that nature, because
(27:56):
it definitely.
The scene.
Like you were saying, Jay, what.
Like, what was really up inthe lighthouse?
Was there actually something there?
I think I was a little letdown that there wasn't something.
I think there could have beenmore payoff there because I kind
of was conditioned to expectsomething like that.
And I think that's definitelya little bit more.
My letdown was where the waythe movie ended, I was kind of just
like, oh, that's.
(28:17):
That's it.
Like, all right.
Yeah, I think that's how I felt.
I get it.
And I agree.
Not me, Alexa.
I don't care.
I didn't need to see the monster.
Did he stick his hand in the.
The flame or, like, what was that?
(28:38):
When he was yelling and, like,when he was looking at the light,
what do we think that was?
I don't know.
Like, and I think that's where.
I think he was just screaming.
And that's another one whereyou can.
Like, there's so manyinterpretations of it.
He was in my head.
He was screaming because therewas nothing but a light.
Right.
Like, so why in his mind, whydid he keep him out?
(28:59):
And then he had to.
Like, he was a complete nutterto this guy.
Like, it ends.
Their relationship ends theway it ends.
And so, like, with a freakingax to the head.
So it's just like.
But then he went up.
So he.
He's in the same situationthat he left previously, only for
nothing.
Because he gets up there andit's just the light.
Right.
(29:19):
But, like, who knows?
I mean, you could say that hesaw something in the light that freaked
him out and then he blacks outbecause of whatever and ends up on
the Roc dead.
I mean, you just don't know, right?
And that's the part that I'm like.
It's just weird that there'sno, there's no even options for what
it could have happened.
(29:40):
Like he just, whatever he seesout there, he doesn't like or makes
him scream or whatever, youknow, interpretation you want to
run with.
But I.
Yeah, because all we see ishis face.
You just don't know.
A weird choice.
It's a weird choice, but theEggers boys are weird people when
(30:02):
it comes to their writing.
And so Reddit says what theywere drinking was lighter fluid.
Yeesh.
No, thank you.
I don't think there's anyamount of honey that can make that
taste good.
No.
Well, I mean there's nobody ona honey that could take.
Make turpentine taste good either.
But lighter fluid, like, Idon't know that I would.
(30:24):
I don't know.
I guess it's all flammable, but.
All right, so the alcohol usedin lighter fluid composition of the
invention will generalcomprise approximately between 0.5
weight percentage andapproximately 98.
Wait, hold on.
So there's a lot of alcohol in here?
Potentially a lot.
It's 0.5.
There's nothing.
Yeah, it's.
(30:45):
It varies between the brands.
Yeah, 0.5 is like the same asa beer.
Yeah, no, it just depends onthe brand.
But I guess their brand back then.
Oh, I'm sure back then, likethey didn't try to, they didn't have
all.
These like petroleum basedoptions that we, we have today.
So my guess is it probably washeavily alcoholic based.
(31:08):
I'm.
I'm sure it was.
Well, and it, it would need toburn depending on what they're using
it for, but.
And they were using it to keepthat fire going.
I'm sure if that's what theywere using was the, the lighter fluid.
But I mean, I did that same tomy buddy drinking hand sanitizer.
(31:29):
So I, you know, I did have mylimits, but a lot of alcoholics don't
at that point.
But yeah, weird movie.
And I will say the best partof this movie regardless is like
the dynamics between the two.
Like if I were to take out theending and the fact that I don't
know what the hell's going onand then the weird, like the mermaid
(31:54):
sex and the jerk off scenelike that, I, to me, serve no purpose.
I.
Come on, you Guys know me.
I'm all for a sex scene andnudity and all that if there's a
purpose behind it.
But I felt like that scene wasfor nothing other than shock value.
And I'm like, I don't love that.
But the dynamic between thesetwo characters, and I think that
(32:15):
comes from the ability forthese actors to do a lot with little.
Because it's not like there'sa ton of dialogue either.
And a lot of the dialoguethat's There is this 1890s Northeast
maritime speech.
Right.
Like, so it's like the sailor speak.
So you time.
I'm like, what the are theyeven saying?
(32:36):
But I could tell theintentions between these two.
And so kudos to these twobecause they.
They rocked it.
And I'm with you.
Matt said, like, I.
I was forced to watch the.
The Twilight movies for Casey,and they're terrible, and I hated
him in them.
Like, I.
I was like, I will never watchanything with him in it.
But I.
(32:58):
To his credit, like, there was a.
Oh, I forget the name of it now.
Anyway, there's one where he'sin New York.
It's a weird.
It's another littleindependent film.
Kind of strange.
Let me look and see.
Because now it's gonna botherme if I don't remember it was between
Twilight movies.
Remember Me.
(33:19):
Movie called Remember Me.
Very sad.
Did not.
It was one of the twist moviesthat I was not that when it happened,
the ending happened, I wentshut the up.
I did not see that coming at all.
And it was very sad, but veryinteresting movie.
And so I saw that Casey mademe watch that because she loved Pattinson.
(33:41):
And I was like, oh, he'sactually really good in this.
And then he did Water for Elephants.
And from then on, I was like,I'm sold.
He's really good.
And he's done nothing that I'mlike, everything since then.
He's just been amazing.
He's a great actor.
He's definitely someone thatchanged their fate, which hard to
do.
(34:01):
Yeah.
He hung in there and.
And really kind of camethrough the.
You made Twilight?
Oh, he didn't even talk aboutfreaking Batman, for instance.
Sure.
I thought he was great in that too.
Yeah.
I still think my favoriteperformance from him is Tenant.
Like, oh, he was.
He.
He made that movie for me.
Like, he was awesome.
(34:23):
I liked it a lot.
We talked about.
I thought it was great.
But he was the best part ofthat movie, in my opinion.
Oh, I remember because I wasthe one.
I hadn't seen some of hisothers because we Did a lot of his
other movies after that.
I was blown away by him, and Iwas like, I never knew he could do
that.
Had no idea.
And I love John David Washington.
He's amazing.
But Robert Patson steals that movie.
(34:44):
Every scene he's in, he justchews it up.
So I was really excitedbecause Willem Dafoe is one of my
favorite actors, period.
Like, I love all the weird he does.
I've seen a lot of weirdmovies that Willem Dafoe's done because
of Willem Dafoe.
Like, movies that I walk awaygoing, I should not have watched
that.
But because he's in it, I'llwatch it.
(35:06):
Is he a weird dude in real life?
I don't know.
Like, I don't.
Based on the interviews I've seen.
No.
He seems like a pretty normal dude.
He just seems like he has therange and he enjoys being, you know.
How I feel about people.
I can do that.
Can exude that level of like aMel Gibson something.
He was really zoned in.
I just always believe those people.
(35:27):
Yeah.
Just there's a screw that.
If you're that good, something.
Something's slightly off with you.
Yeah, I get that.
I get well into Falcon.
Fit a lot of skittles in hismouth that I do know.
Yeah, he's a.
He's got a very large mouthand he's done some weird.
Like he did one trying toremember the name of it.
The.
The Antichrist.
(35:48):
He.
That was a very strange movie.
Very strange movie.
And a lot of nudity.
And I don't recommend thatbefore he met him.
But it's a weird.
It's a strange movie, Alec.
You might like that movie.
It's very odd movies.
It's.
It's got a lot of very goodcharacter progression type stuff.
(36:10):
Like very character driven,very strange hallucinogenic type.
It was funny because there waslike a.
There's a rumor that there's alot of full front and frontal nudity
in that movie.
And there's a rumor that theyused a body double for his character
because his dick's too big.
(36:32):
And then I've read ones whereit's like, it's got an odd shape
to it or something.
Like it's a weird look, and sothat's why they did it.
But, like, the prevailing,like, rumor is that his dick's too
big and that's why they usethe body double for him.
But why would that be a bad thing?
I have no idea.
Because it's.
Because it's shocking and ittakes away from the movie like you.
All you think about is how bigWillem Dafoe's dick.
(36:55):
I have no idea.
But that's.
That's the prevailingsentiment is that that's why.
Could you imagine being thatbody double?
We need you to come in and befull frontal because.
Because your dick is small.
Because the hammer over herecan't be on camera.
This is a bad premise for a movie.
An unnamed couple have sex intheir Seattle apartment while their
(37:17):
unsupervised infant son Nickclimbs up to the bedroom window and
falls out to its death.
Wow.
I told you it's a up movie.
It's very specific.
Yeah, it's a up movie.
I think it's the same guy.
I'm trying to remember whomade that one too, because it was
the.
Oh, it's the same guy that did.
(37:37):
There was like a two partmovie that a lot of pretty big actors
at the time were in, includingWillem Dafoe, I think.
What's the damn name of that movie?
Oh, Nymphomaniac.
Same guy that did made themovies, the movie Nymphomaniac.
(37:57):
He makes very strange movies.
I don't recommend that.
I watched part one ofNymphomaniac and I couldn't bring
myself to watch part twobecause I saw no point in it.
It just was a.
To me it was just a reason tohave a bunch of gratuitous nudity
and weird sex.
(38:17):
Trying to do a characterprogression with an actual nymphomaniac
and I'm like, I, you know,look, just don't know that that worked
for me at least.
So very weird movie.
But anyway, I love these two.
I love the dynamic between thetwo of them.
Even though it's a reallyweird movie.
Yeah, the.
(38:38):
This movie you're talking about.
Jj.
I know which one does the one.
Antichrist.
Yeah.
Yeah, I'll.
I'll pass for sure.
You've now seen the movie.
Just reading the two paragraphsummary on Wikipedia.
Yeah, you should.
It's very.
It's.
It's not an easy watch.
That's why I say Alec.
(38:59):
Where can I stream it?
Alec would probably reallylike it.
I.
Because it's.
It's your.
It's in the vein of.
Of what's that movie Snuffmade us watch for the Patreon.
Oh, vulgar.
Yeah, it's.
It's in that vein wherethere's just a lot of.
What's just uncomfortable.
(39:19):
Then smashes a large block ofwood onto his erect penis causing
him to lose consciousness.
She then masturbates him untilhe ejaculate blood.
I told you, it's a weird.
She drills a hole through hisleg, bolting a heavy grindstone through
the wound, and tosses thewrench she used under the cabin.
(39:44):
This sounds like.
What's the clown movie withthe saw type stuff, dude.
I'm like, it's.
It's rough, dude.
It's a weird movie.
I know what I'm watchingtonight, Alec.
Let me know how you like it,because I will say this Willem Dafoe
is masterful in it.
(40:04):
Like, he.
I cannot stress enough.
I could not take my eyes offthe screen no matter what weird ass
was happening.
Willem Defoe kills it.
He's a weird dude.
And that is by far one of theweirdest movies I've ever watched.
She cuts her clitoris off andthey show that.
(40:28):
It'S a weird movie, dude.
How's that rated R?
It should be, like, rated.
Don't see this?
Is it only rated R?
I thought it was an NC17, butlet's see.
I might have just skipped over that.
I don't.
I don't remember that guydoing anything that's just rated
R anymore.
(40:50):
It doesn't even say so.
It's probably whatever you'retalking about.
Oh, my God.
It's.
It's not she, dude.
This is.
Yeah, this.
This is the type.
Alec would probably love this girl.
Oh, yeah.
It's a weird.
Don't threaten me with a good time.
I'll be interested to hearwhat you think, because like I said,
(41:13):
it's a strange.
It's a.
It's.
It's something.
It made me uncomfortable farmore than Lars von Trier.
That's the.
The writer, director, and he'snever done anything that's not, like,
make you question yourexistence type.
(41:34):
Like, beautiful.
He is.
He is a strange son of a.
You'd probably love all of hismovies because they're.
There's something wrong withhim in all the best ways from a creative
perspective.
But anyway, back to the lighthouse.
Are we ready to rate this thing?
(41:55):
I think we are.
All right.
Now that I've completely andutterly disturbed Matson with the
Antichrist, the film thatshook the world.
Shocked the world.
Yeah, I can.
That tracks.
Shooketh the world.
All right, I'm first.
So rate this first, becauseit's your pick.
(42:21):
I'm gonna give it a two.
Almost gave it a two and a half.
Wow.
I'm impressed.
Yeah, I'm gonna give it a two.
It would have been a two and ahalf a day if this movie wasn't so
long.
But I was conditioned to knowthat this movie was the aspect ratio
(42:43):
on the black and white.
But for whatever reason,because of what they were trying
to portray, I could get behind it.
I was like, all right, I don't know.
But like Zack Snyder justintentionally doing that to a movie
has no reason have an aspectlike that are being black and white.
That just pisses me off.
There's nothing.
No reason to do that except hejust thinks he's the coolest director
(43:04):
on the planet.
This movie.
I'm like, well, what it wouldhave looked like if they had tried
to film this in the 1890s,even though technology didn't exist.
But it's fine with me.
So I was behind that.
Phenomenal actors, weirdmovie, slow movie, eerie in a good
way.
And the lacks direction.
And I thought the.
(43:24):
The ending was just.
It could have been more.
It really could have been.
And I wanted it to be more.
And that's where if it had areally intriguing.
Any like a lot of what JJ wastalking about, like some supernatural
spin or something.
Like, I think this movie couldhave been elevated quite a bit.
I think it could have beensomething that I was hoping for it
to be, but it just didn't havethe shock and awe that I was really
(43:45):
hoping for at the end.
So for that, I think Iprobably surprised people giving
it a 2.
Like, I'll never watch itagain, but, like, there's a lot to
talk about.
It's an interesting premiseand I think they did a good job.
But it's definitely not amainstream movie.
So for my people out there,like, probably not gonna enjoy it,
(44:06):
but if you do want to watchit, like.
The people enjoyed it.
Madsen, I think you're gonnabe pleasantly surprised to an extent.
No, the people didn't enjoyit, Alex.
The people did enjoy it.
The people that are you peopleor the what reads you site would.
Yes, the movie festival peopleor people that watch the Lars von
(44:26):
Trier's Antichrist peopleprobably would enjoy it.
And we don't want to be those people.
How can you say you're of thepeople if you don't listen to the
people?
Yeah, of the people has toinclude all people, sir.
I'm talking about normal people.
Define normal, not Alex.
People is what I'm trying to say.
(44:47):
Most of JJ's people I vibe with.
It's just sometimes JJ straysoff the beaten path.
Anyways, I digress.
I'm going too long.
I gave it a 2.
Matson represents the lemming people.
No, I'm just kidding.
Alec, your turn, buddy.
Tell us what you thought.
What do you rate this?
I like this movie.
It was weird.
It was fun.
It was out there.
(45:08):
I don't need the supernatural ending.
Just the crazy gaslighting andgoing slowly insane is enough for
me.
I'm gonna give this movie a four.
Wow.
I think it was really, really good.
I don't know if it's somethingI can watch frequently, but I'm definitely
(45:29):
throwing this back on and justsitting there and enjoying it because
it was really good.
I liked it.
Nice.
Oh, man.
I'm gonna give it a two and a half.
And I.
I think I would have reallyscored this high if I had a couple
of options to choose from onwhat happened.
(45:52):
And, like, I'll even.
I'll spend my review, like, myscoring time saying what I would
have liked to have had happen.
My ending.
If I were ending this film, hewould have been staring into the
lighthouse and having this,like, realization of how cuckoo he
was, how nuts he was, andgoing back to.
(46:13):
And change for reframing inhis own mind the story that he told
the Willem Dafoe about thisforeman that he let drown and have
it be that he activelymurdered him.
And, like, it's this cyclethat he goes through, right?
Like, that's what I thinkwould have driven me to be, like,
this was great because thewhole time, up until a certain point,
(46:34):
I would have been blamingWillem Dafoe for the reason that
this guy's losing his marbles.
But instead.
And the.
The environment, right?
Willem Dafoe and the environment.
But instead, it turns out he'sthe guy that's the problem from the
beginning.
And you don't have to give itthat level of definition that I'm
talking about.
But, like, that's how I wouldhave ended it.
Right now, I'm not the mostleave it ambiguous guy, so I would
(46:55):
have clean turned it aroundand have him go to this flashback
where he's actively the problem.
And, like, even to the pointwhere maybe it's his own journal
that he thinks is.
He's read Will, you know whatI mean?
Like, every piece of thingsthat make you think Willem Defo is
the problem is somemanifestation of him being the problem.
And he's going through thiscycle again and again, right?
(47:16):
Where he goes to a new placeand somebody ends up dying, but it's
under, you know, weirdcircumstances that can be explained
as not his problem.
Anyway, that's how I wouldhave done this.
And I think if it had donesomething of that level or where
I Could have at leastspeculated between a couple of different
things and not have tocompletely create my own ideas around
(47:36):
what happened.
I don't love that having to do that.
I get why they did it.
I understand that that's forsome people.
Like they're okay with thatlevel of ambiguity.
I just not.
I think I would have scored itaround a 4 or 5.
I do think there's someunnecessary like a 5.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves.
Jay.
I would have been close if ithad had a good solid ending that
(47:59):
explained things.
Even if it was a weird asslike alien in the.
You know what I mean?
Like I don't care what it was.
Like if you had given me somereason for what we had been doing
all this, besides two guysjust losing it, I, I would have probably
because I really enjoyed thedynamic and, and I'm with Alec.
(48:21):
We've talked about this before.
I love a movie watching peopledigress into psychoses.
Like I think that is such aninteresting concept and that's terrible
of me to say but if I couldsit and study someone that's slowly
going crazy, I would be morethan interested in that because I
think that level of watchingpeople's minds deteriorate, that
(48:43):
deterioration level isinteresting to me.
That says a lot about me, I'm sure.
But it intrigues me.
Right.
And so the fact that I don'tunderstand why is hard for me.
And that's a me thing.
But it's hard for me.
And so I.
That's where I mark it down.
But I think based on how itwas acted, I think the things that
would have kept me going werethe unnecessary jerking off scene
(49:04):
and not even necessarily theunnecessary jerking obviously, but
the length of that scene andthen like the weird giant mermaid
vagina inside.
Like it was weird.
Like there were some visualsthat I was like that doesn't add
value to this movie.
This is just Robert Eggersbeing a weirdo.
Like that's all that was.
And when I have to.
(49:24):
When I, when it pulls me meback and I go, you're just being
weird now.
Like that's when I, I can'tgive it a full on five.
So I think if you get rid ofsome of that, that was unnecessary.
And then add some at leastless ambiguous stuff to the ending.
I could have given it a fouror four and a half, maybe a five,
(49:44):
depending on how much youpulled out of it.
But I didn't even feel thelength like magic because it's only
an hour like 49 minute moviewhich is right there in the sweet
spot.
But I could get where it wouldfeel long.
It didn't feel long to me, butit was weird.
And it was so weird and I justlost like, I have no interest in
watching it again because Iknow how frustrated I'm gonna feel
(50:06):
at the end of these greatperformances and very interesting,
eerie movie that to me goesnowhere, like, has no purpose and
doesn't allow me to even leantowards something.
So that's why it's getting atwo and a half for me.
But I was expecting way worse.
So maybe that's part of thereason I was pleasantly surprised
when, when Madsen picked it, Iwas like, it's like I've kind of
(50:29):
actively avoided this moviebecause I watched the Witch and I
know how weird Eggers gets.
But yeah, I can't complainabout watching it.
I liked it, especially forthis topic.
It was a good way to kick offthe year.
So well done.
Matt's a good pick.
Even though you may not agreewith it being a good pick on your
(50:50):
end.
I liked it.
All right, well, I'm excitedfor the rest of the month and for
the rest of the year.
Really lots of good, goodstuff to choose from.
Excited.
Got some good topics lined upfor the first few months with that.
Alec, tell everybody wherethey can find us.
Happy to jj.
So thank you for tuning intoour review of the Lighthouse 2025
(51:11):
kicking off with OriginalScreenplay Month.
Matson has made sure westarted off bad, or at least he tried
to anyway.
So thanks for that, Matson.
Thanks to our current patrons,Rich and JJ's low hanging glistening
Christmas balls for pickingthe topic of original screenplays
and the first movie.
So I think we can blame JJ'sglistening low hanging Christmas
(51:34):
balls for this pick as well.
But I'm still gonna blame Matson.
Things you can blame for yeah,low hanging glistening Christmas
balls.
So Patreon is a place to getinvolved, guys.
Every month we have topics tochoose from, topics to suggest, and
any kind of topic that you want.
And then we pick movies withinthat topic that you then get to vote
(51:57):
on as well.
So join us there.
What's our verdict?
Reviews to get really involvedin the content that we make.
With that I will kick it backto the Titan of Terror, the Wazir
of Wap A jj.
Yeah, thanks Alec.
Appreciate that.
We do appreciate our Patreons.
Our patrons are.
They keep us going.
They make it a lot easier tocontinue making the podcast.
(52:17):
So if you want us to keepdoing it, want to help that out,
we'd appreciate It.
Plus you get to have a lot offun over there.
It's a.
It's a whole different world.
My inappropriateness is onfull go on the that side.
I don't hold back at all.
You guys probably listen tothis and go.
He holds back.
I do, actually.
Hey, we were once labeled as awholesome family entertainment, but
(52:40):
yeah, that must.
Have been without me because.
Certainly not.
A real dark road when you weregone for a while there.
Certainly not this episode.
No.
Yeah, this one got weird.
Yeah, wholesome familyentertainment turned left way too
long ago.
That's fair.
I've just been dragging yourwholesome asses my direction the
(53:02):
whole time.
Little did you know, I've beenwatering you down.
Maybe not, Alec.
I thought I was until.
You're making me a better person.
Alex.
Actually making me look good sometimes.
JJ's not as crazy as he thinkshe is.
Yeah.
But yeah, go join us there on Patreon.
It's fun.
And we appreciate those thathave been there and are listening
(53:25):
to us.
We're growing rapidly.
I'm on.
I mean, we're pushing 400.
I know that sounds so easily, but.
Yeah, we started with zero.
I know.
Yeah.
Well, we went from like 300 to 360.
I think we're up to 360 now.
We're getting up there towhere it's like the last, like few.
We've been climbing pretty quick.
So we appreciate those thathave now subscribed to us here on.
(53:47):
On YouTube, those that watchus and those that listen.
Thank you.
So thank you for being andlisten to the.
Your man and the people.
So I appreciate that, everybody.
Thanks for getting the trueopinions as well.
You know, if anybody's aMatson fan, please let me know.
I want to meet you.
Well, we know at least one.
(54:09):
So with that, as always, weappreciate you tuning in.
We'll catch you on the next LA.
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