June 2, 2025 • 23 mins
What happens when dedicated dialysis professionals step outside the system they've worked in for decades? A powerful shift in perspective that could change everything about kidney health treatment.
After 35+ years working inside dialysis centers, hosts Maurice Carlisle, Ira McAliley, and special guest Paul Terry have emerged with a revolutionary mission: to help people avoid dialysis altogether rather than simply treat end-stage kidney disease. Their journey has led them to challenging industry standards and advocating for patients in ways they couldn't while employed within the system.
This reunion episode marks a turning point as the trio reveals troubling insights about the profit-driven dialysis industry. From outdated nutritional guidance that may actually harm patients to the resistance they faced when suggesting alternatives, their candid conversation exposes gaps between emerging research and standard clinical practices. Maurice shares how connecting patients with physicians willing to provide second opinions has revealed many people being rushed toward dialysis prematurely.
The most surprising revelation? Simple, accessible remedies that can significantly impact kidney health are rarely discussed with patients. "Baking soda is one of the cheapest medications you can purchase," explains Paul, describing how this common household item can help alkalize blood and potentially improve kidney function - information many nephrologists don't routinely share.
Beyond clinical insights, the episode carries a spiritual undercurrent about divine purpose. These advocates believe their decades inside the system prepared them for their current mission: empowering patients, educating dialysis technicians about their true potential to help, and creating community networks that can be replicated nationwide.
Join us as we explore holistic approaches to kidney disease, challenge conventional wisdom, and work toward a future where fewer patients need dialysis. Connect with the hosts at an upcoming Cincinnati patient symposium in September, and stay tuned for future episodes featuring nutritionists, social workers, and patients sharing alternative perspectives on kidney health.
With hosts Maurice Carlisle and Ira McAliley
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ira (00:02):
What's up, beautiful people , this is Ira McAleely here with
Maurice Carlisle for anotherepisode of what's the Deal with
Dialysis, where we dig into theindustry and all the workings
going on of kidney dialysis.
I'm Ira McAleely and I've beenhere.
(00:23):
We've been doing this for quitesome time in my career I've
been a filmmaker, prop masteralso.
I facilitate workshops,dialogue with folks and what
we're doing is just sheddinglight on things in injury.
And, maurice, tell us a littlebit about what you've been up to
(00:43):
, because we're regrouping, notrevamping, but just kind of
taking some time off to kind ofexperience life things.
And now we're coming backstronger and better.
Maurice (00:55):
Yeah, thank you, man.
So we're bringing some newideas to the podcast.
A lot of things have happened.
A lot of research has takenplace.
A lot of things have happened,a lot of research has taken
place, a lot of things havechanged, and so we wanted to
come back with differentmindsets.
Totally change it reallytotally changed how we see
(01:17):
things.
I no longer work in a dialysiscenter any longer.
I've, you know, went away fromthat and you know I want to help
people outside the centerbefore they ever even get there,
and so I've been doing somethings in the community.
I've been attached to NKF forsome symposiums, just opened my
eyes to a lot of things.
(01:37):
I've met nutritionists, socialworkers, and so the dynamics of
dialysis has changed a whole lot, and so we want to pass on some
of that good information topeople and help them navigate,
you know, their health and theirkidney care.
Ira (01:54):
All right.
So today we have a specialguest, the current guest, our
good buddy Paul Terry, who we'llbring back right after our
little intro.
Paul (02:17):
Stay tuned.
Good morning, all right, we'reback.
Ira (02:24):
There we are In the house.
What's up, man?
All right.
How are back there.
We are, paul Terry, in thehouse.
What's up, man, all right?
How are you guys doing?
Good man, we are well.
We are well Trying to be in theworld of wellness here.
What's the deal with dialysis?
And thank you for being here.
Yeah, yeah, as Maurice justsaid, like he's been, he
(02:45):
elevated to a new level in my interms of, you know, working
with kidney dialysis and andbeing part of the cause of, you
know, awareness and empoweringpeople to to be advocates for
themselves and, you know, inimplanting them deeper in the
industry to be able to affectchange in a positive way.
(03:07):
So, paul, give us kind of anintro to what you've been up to,
because I know your worldshifted a little bit.
Let us know what's happening,definitely.
Paul (03:18):
Well, after a 35-year career in dialysis, starting
with reuse and going all the wayto the biomed department, I
have have shifted, as you justmade mention of.
I still own my.
I still own my biomedicalservices company, um, which is a
contractor company, so I stillprovide primarily technical
support, but I'm really not inthe clinic as as much as I used
(03:39):
to be um.
As a matter of fact, my entirelife has shifted towards healthy
and wealthy, which is I'm nottrying to plug my brand right
there, but I am trying to plugmy brand you should be, let them
know.
like we said, we spent a lot ofyears putting people on dialysis
.
I spent 35 years putting peopleon dialysis.
(04:01):
The next 35 years, my primaryfocus will be to get them off of
dialysis and, like Maurice'sobjective has been, is to
educate people so that if youultimately end up on dialysis
anyway, you'll know that you'llbe able to put it off as long as
possible by adhering to some ofthe things that we've learned
over the course of our careersThings that will actually
(04:23):
improve kidney function, thingsthat will delay dialysis, things
that will improve overallhealth and basically eliminate
some of the symptoms with someof the syndromes, some of the
metabolic syndromes associatedthat ultimately lead to dialysis
.
So we've spent a lot of timefocusing and educating ourselves
and our immediate surroundingson these things, so that's where
(04:47):
the bulk of my time has beenspent.
Regarding the medical field asa whole, Got it.
Ira (04:54):
And so, maurice, you know we've talked outside of this
space just about you've beendiscovering some of the people
that you've been meeting and howyour perspective has changed a
little bit in terms of how youcan be effective and be.
You know the path forward, ifyou will.
(05:15):
So you know, you have somepoints of what you want to do,
what we're going to talk about,basically, if we were to call
this a second season of what todeal with dialysis Basically, if
we were to call this a secondseason of what to deal with
dialysis.
We're going to be going deeperto kind of show more
perspectives of the issue sothat everybody gets a more
(05:38):
well-rounded idea of what'sgoing on.
So tell us what you've been upto?
Maurice (05:42):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I want to make mentionabout Paul.
I mean, paul is together withme and you.
He has been a catalyst for thiswhole thing.
I mean, when we came up withthe idea of a podcast, of even
doing a podcast, paul was a partof that process and has always
been a part of the process.
I've always been bouncing stuffoff of Paul and you, you, uh,
(06:03):
behind the scenes and so, uh,paul is a catalyst as well for
this, and I just want to thankhim for indulging me man, like
I've been calling him, blowinghis phone up for years and we've
been going back and forth andthis is a product of those
conversations.
I mean literally a product, andwe've even even talked as early
as a couple of days ago aboutwhat this podcast, what this
(06:27):
episode would be about, and howit's changed us being outside of
the center.
Like he mentioned, we no longerwork in the center per se.
We still have contacts to thecenter, we still know people who
do, but it gave us a differentperspective.
Um, no, we tried to do as muchas we could do within the center
(06:48):
hierarchy.
Uh, what we realized is is that, um, to really affect change?
Uh, it's very difficult toaffect change when you're inside
the center, when you are anemployee of the people who may
or may not necessarily wantchange, um, and so that puts a
lot of pressure on you.
It creates a lot of animositywithin the center.
(07:10):
There can be retaliation withinthe center because of that, and
so, and particularly in my case, I worked in a center with
people who are in my community,most of which I knew before I
was ever a technician, and sothat creates, uh, some hierarchy
issues as well, because thesepeople are looking to me to help
(07:32):
them, and I mean, they'remembers of my church, friends of
my parents, um, people who I Iwent to school with their kids
Uh, some of those little ladiestook me to football practice,
their husbands to footballpractice, you know.
And so for them to come in thecenter and then to be treated
like they're just another personin the center was very
(07:54):
difficult for me to do, and Idon't think I was there to do
that.
I was there to give them asmuch.
You know I was able to givelove back to people who have
been giving me love all my life.
You know I was able to givelove back to people who have
been giving me love all my life.
Many of those people came inand somebody said I heard a lady
yell across the center, recy.
I said Recy, like nobody knowsme as Recy, like who's calling
(08:15):
me.
And this lady's, like you know,my mom's best friend's in the
center and she's, you know,going to have to have dialysis,
and so I know there'stechnicians out there somewhere
who have similar experiences andwe want to get them on our show
and talk to them about theirexperiences in the center as
well, because that's a differentdynamic.
You know, that's just not likegoing to your job and just like
doing something Right, that is.
(08:38):
You know there arerelationships that are already
built, and so we want to talkabout those relationships as we
move forward in this.
The other thing is is thatthere's new research out there,
and so you know I found out thatthere are nutritionists out
there who are talking aboutorganic diets for dialysis
patients, which was almostunheard of because of the
potassium in fruits that theywould keep patients away from
(09:01):
potassium, so they didn't wantthem to eat fruit.
There's also this idea that youknow we have dialysis patients
eat meat.
At high levels of meat, well,that meat turns into acid and
that makes their blood acidic,and that's what they are acidic
when they're on dialysis, and sothat's counterproductive to
(09:21):
what dialysis patients need.
And so this research is comingout now, and now we're seeing
the centers are still doing it.
I mean, it seems like theyhaven't moved over to this new
research, and so I've met somenutritionists that we're going
to have on the show and they'regoing to talk about some of this
new research that's out thereso that we can help patients and
(09:43):
their families navigate this alot better.
Some other things that'shappened in my community is that
there are patients who arecoming to me and they're saying,
hey, my doctor told me I needdialysis, and I'm like, ok, ok,
well then let's get a secondopinion on that, and so I've
been utilizing a doctor that'sin my community to give them a
(10:06):
second opinion.
What we're finding out is isthat many of those people don't
need to go on dialysis right yet, and so getting a second
opinion can change the dynamicof what you believe is happening
.
I've already experiencedpushback from that.
I've already experiencedpushback from that.
So the doctor that I've beensending them to for second
opinions has decided that, hey,if they come from this community
(10:28):
, they don't need a referral.
So now we are actually stoppingthe pushback.
We've actually put in place away where these patients can get
referral, I mean, they can seesomebody for a second opinion
(10:50):
without needing to go throughthis whole referral process,
which is the catalyst for thispushback.
And so these are just a fewthings that we want to share in
upcoming episodes and we want togive this to you know.
Once we consider we figure outwhat that program looks like
between the three of us, we wantto give that program to
communities all over the countryso that they can duplicate what
we've done here and they cansee some of the results that
we're seeing.
So that's just touching onwhere we're headed.
Paul (11:11):
Just a little bit about that.
Good things, good news, that'sgood.
Ira (11:15):
So yeah, paul, where do you see you know things we can do,
like topics that we can touch onfrom your perspective?
What is it that you know wherecan do like topics that we can
touch on from your perspective?
But is it that you know whereshould we go with this?
Paul (11:28):
okay, let me just chime in on some points that maurice
made.
Because, like he said, you alot of dialysis, patients are
very low in protein, which youknow destroys muscle mass, you
know, and and overall nothealthy to have low protein
levels.
And so what the dieticians,particularly renal dieticians,
are emphasizing to patients isto consume more and more meat.
(11:51):
But, like he just said, thatmeat will actually increase your
creatinine levels, which is aspinoff of cell metabolism.
I mean, it's the byproduct ofcell metabolism, that meat and,
like I said, it creates acid.
A lot of people may experienceor develop gout as a result of
consuming a lot of meat,especially red meat.
We all know that red meat isnot the most healthy meat to
(12:12):
consume for anybody, especiallydiastasis patients.
So I'm going to tell you likethis, ultimately, moving forward
, patients are going to find outthe hard way that one of the
best things that you can do toalleviate the acid content in
your body.
We tell them all the time.
It's like if you consume bakingsoda and water it will alkalize
your blood system, which willlower your acid levels.
(12:46):
I don't know if people have thestrength of character to fast,
but I can tell you personally,fasting will cure just about any
ailment that the body suffersfrom.
The problem is that requires alevel of discipline that most
dialysis patients have yet toachieve.
So, like he said, we're lookingat it as, after having been
employed for all of these yearsin dialysis, now we're coming
into this as a holisticperspective, which is counter
counter.
It's contrary to what they'reteaching in the industry Because
(13:09):
, like you said, dialysis is afor profit industry.
It's not, then I don't, wedon't know very many doctors who
have a high level of curing orreversing dialysis Once a
patient gets to the end, whichis that stage five, end stage.
Maurice (13:25):
Yeah, that stage five Once a patient gets on dialysis.
Paul (13:28):
Very few people actually ever recover.
I've known a few, but not thatmany.
Most of the ones that recoverthey either went somewhere else
and they sought out, you know, atreatment that was not FDA
approved Mexico, tijuana or theywent to some reservation and
had some Indian people, or theygot chelation.
(13:50):
There's a host of differenttreatments that are not FDA
approved and they're not popular.
Because if you like he justsaid, if you go into a clinic,
tell somebody listen, brock, Ican do chelation.
We can do A, b, c and D.
We can either lower yourincidences, we can lower the
amount of times you have to goto the house, or we can get you
off the house.
You're not going to be popularand you're going to get some
(14:11):
flat.
You're going to definitely getsome flat.
Yeah, you're going to becomethe enemy of the state of the
house.
Maurice (14:23):
And we've seen it.
I mean, we've seen the pushback, I've experienced the pushback,
paul has experienced thepushback.
Ultimately, that pushback isprobably why we're not in the
center today, if I be right.
If we had to put a moment oftime on it, if we had to say
what was the reason that wespent 30 odd years in the center
and we're not in there today.
Paul (14:42):
We bucked the system.
We always did.
That's why I said we startedout putting people on dialysis,
but moving forward, we'reultimately going to end up
taking people, removing peoplefrom that.
That's right.
It's what we recommend.
And, once again, like we alwayssay, baking soda is like the
cheapest.
That's one of the cheapestmedications that you can
purchase.
Maurice (15:01):
That's right and it doesn't.
That's one of the cheapestmedications that you can
purchase, that I tell all thepatients to take a table.
You know, before they're ondialysis I'm telling look, take
a tablespoon of baking soda, putin an 8 ounce glass of water,
mix it up in the morning anddrink that.
So you know people gonnaquestion that.
They're like why would I dothat?
So one of the ladies that Igrew up with her son.
(15:21):
He came to me.
He said they're telling my momshe needs to go on dialysis.
I said, hey, get a secondopinion.
He goes down to the secondopinion.
He says to the doctor that Iknow, hey, man, marisa's telling
my mom to do that.
And the doctor tells him hey,man, you'd be surprised how much
that can help kidney function.
And so you know it just tellshim.
(15:42):
He went back to the doctor thathe had before and he said why
didn't you tell me this?
Right, the doctor didn't havean answer.
Ira (15:50):
Yeah, I mean from where I stand in my spiritual world and
you know Paul talking aboutholistic medicine, I think that
is.
You know, that's the revolution.
That's not televised right.
So there's a whole host ofpeople that are working in
indigenous medicine, plantmedicine, um, you know the stuff
(16:13):
.
Like we used to brush our teethwith baking soda, right.
So now you're seeing that comearound, you like, you start to
see that on like, instagramposts of, like how to do the
natural things that you know ourpeople have known how to do
forever.
You know what I mean.
But like the, the, the money,people like the people that are
(16:33):
capitalizing on poor folks andpeople who just don't understand
exactly, like have industriesaround taking those natural
things out, like there's notmuch natural about our living,
especially in this country atthis point.
So myself, I'm going to costarica to learn more, um, I set up
(16:56):
a space where I can bringpeople to learn more, um, and
that's, I think, in the future.
What's the deal with dialysis isbeing able to, you know, run
some retreats and try to tofight from the outside, um,
where they can't get us and theycan't stop us and they can't
right.
You know, you know, and, and tome it's divine that you guys
(17:17):
have been in the system tounderstand the system, to be
able to correct the system right, and so you guys are coming
into your own self-realization,if you will, of purpose.
Right.
It's, like you know, in myworld right now, like a lot of
the things that I've done anddidn't really understand why I
was doing them.
(17:38):
The wisdom of our age isunderstanding that these are the
things that have been put inour pathway to get us to where
we are and to get us where we'regoing.
All right, well, yeah, sothat's what we're up to, that's
the newness that's coming to usto deal with dialysis.
So I want to invite people tostay tuned.
(18:00):
I don't want to give away toomuch of it.
I think we're going to, likeyou guys, have anything that you
want to say at this moment,let's do it.
Paul (18:07):
I want to go to costa rica and I want to, and I want to.
I want to reiterate what youjust said.
We need you guys to participate, to spread this message out
there because, like you justalluded to, basically health
care is going to go back to theoriginal, its original formation
, which is natural, holistic,you can call it which doctor,
you call the food, you callwhatever you want to call it,
but it's ultimately going to goback to its roots, which were a
(18:29):
lot more effective eating thingsout of your yard.
You know, people are going tostart back raising their own
livestock.
They're going to raise theirown chicken, they're going to
eat natural eggs that they fedto their chickens.
They're not going to be goingto the grocery store and that's.
That's like you say.
You get a kickback from theindustry, you get a kickback
from pharmaceuticals when youstart to go against the grain,
as it were.
Maurice (18:50):
Well, I want to say this you know, you talked about
how we came to a point where weunderstood why we were there,
and me and Paul talk about ourtime.
We used to say God is in thebuilding Right, and so we didn't
know that that's Well.
Let's go back to this.
Let me just give you a littlebit of background.
Me and Paul went to collegetogether.
(19:11):
So this is crazy.
So, college together.
I end up leaving California,coming to Ohio.
Paul is leaving college as well, going back home to San
Bernardino.
We, we, we reconnect, and weboth working in dialysis.
Right, you can't make this up.
We both working in the samefield, we find out.
(19:34):
We the same person.
It's all divine, it's all divine.
You see what I mean.
Ira (19:41):
Say it again Ira, it's all divine, there's no coincidences
here, there ain't nocoincidences.
We're working in the same space.
We just have to release, let goand believe trust and believe
that it's already done.
It's already done, it's alreadydone, that's right.
And the pieces keep fallinginto place.
(20:01):
I see it as a big puzzle man.
Every day I get a piece of thepuzzle.
It just becomes clear, theimage becomes clearer and
clearer.
There's a lot of things thathappen in our society that we
just can't participate inbecause the vibration is just
not right and real.
Maurice (20:22):
That's just a little bit of background about me and
Paul.
That's how we ended up both inthis dialysis center.
We had these conversations foryears and we, we, we got pushed
back for years, for years and wekept going back because we had
a job.
I mean, we had work to do.
It wasn't a job for us, it wasdivine work.
(20:43):
And when you're doing divinework and all these technicians
don't know, but they're doingdivine work, they're there for a
reason.
We need to tell them whythey're there.
They don't know.
Ira (20:52):
They think they're there to get a paycheck.
Maurice (20:54):
That ain't what they're there for, and they don't know
it.
And so we want to be advocatesfor them, we want to empower
them, and what's the deal withdialysis is that thing that
we're going to use to do thatfor these technicians?
Being a technician is an art.
It's an art form.
Man.
They don't even know the artform yet.
But we're going to expressthese things to them and they're
(21:15):
going to be anew once theyrealize what work they really
are there to do.
Ira (21:19):
Of course, so I invite people to keep coming back.
There's new energy.
I'm sure you can tell if you'vebeen here before.
It'll never be the same.
So we're on a mission, y'all,and we're doing the do.
Like you know, dialysis hascome through my life, my world,
my sister yeah, you know, mysister will be a reoccurring
(21:41):
character, because she's acharacter for sure.
But, but, but, and we'll justuse and no buts, and, like I
said, it's all divine and we'regoing to just claim it, we're
going to trust and believe thatwe are doing what's necessary to
be done.
So, with that, we're going tosay peace to you all.
(22:02):
Thank you.
Paul (22:04):
Thank you for having me.
I appreciate this, I really do.
Thank you for having me.
I appreciate this.
I really appreciate theplatform and the opportunity to
share with some of what we'veknown because I've been doing.
I have done that for 35 years,but I'm still 36, going on 36
years, absolutely same with youbecause you're part of the inc.
You're part of nasty kidneynational kidney foundation.
Yes, yes, yeah, yeah, activelyright yeah, actively, yeah.
Maurice (22:25):
Kimmy Foundation yes, yes, yeah, actively.
Right, yeah, actively, yeah.
They have me sitting on some ofthe boards with them and
actually in September, me andIra and you will be at a booth
at a patient symposium in theCincinnati area.
So if you're watching fromCincinnati, you can come and see
us in the flesh in September.
Paul (22:41):
Look, ira, stay tuned.
We don't want you to missnothing.
Stay tuned, that's right, staytuned.
Ira (22:44):
We don't want you to miss nothing.
Stay tuned, that's right.
Maurice (22:49):
The next episode.
That's right.
Paul (22:53):
I need to post this episode.
Y'all, make sure y'all shoot methis today.
We will we will With that.
Ira (23:01):
Just take care of yourself.
Love yourself.
Yes, be your authentic self.
Just know that.
Wellness holistic wellness.
Be an advocate for yourself.
Yes, be your authentic self.
That's right.
Just another wellness, holisticwellness, like be an advocate
for yourself and stick with us,we'll help you through.
Yeah, more is coming All right.
Paul (23:17):
Be well, be well.
Peace and blessings y'all.
Peace and blessings.
Yes, sir, peace and blessings.
Signing out.
What's up, beautiful people , this is Ira McAleely here with
Maurice Carlisle for anotherepisode of what's the Deal with
Dialysis, where we dig into theindustry and all the workings
going on of kidney dialysis.
I'm Ira McAleely and I've beenhere.
(00:23):
We've been doing this for quitesome time in my career I've
been a filmmaker, prop masteralso.
I facilitate workshops,dialogue with folks and what
we're doing is just sheddinglight on things in injury.
And, maurice, tell us a littlebit about what you've been up to
(00:43):
, because we're regrouping, notrevamping, but just kind of
taking some time off to kind ofexperience life things.
And now we're coming backstronger and better.
Maurice (00:55):
Yeah, thank you, man.
So we're bringing some newideas to the podcast.
A lot of things have happened.
A lot of research has takenplace.
A lot of things have happened,a lot of research has taken
place, a lot of things havechanged, and so we wanted to
come back with differentmindsets.
Totally change it reallytotally changed how we see
(01:17):
things.
I no longer work in a dialysiscenter any longer.
I've, you know, went away fromthat and you know I want to help
people outside the centerbefore they ever even get there,
and so I've been doing somethings in the community.
I've been attached to NKF forsome symposiums, just opened my
eyes to a lot of things.
(01:37):
I've met nutritionists, socialworkers, and so the dynamics of
dialysis has changed a whole lot, and so we want to pass on some
of that good information topeople and help them navigate,
you know, their health and theirkidney care.
Ira (01:54):
All right.
So today we have a specialguest, the current guest, our
good buddy Paul Terry, who we'llbring back right after our
little intro.
Paul (02:17):
Stay tuned.
Good morning, all right, we'reback.
Ira (02:24):
There we are In the house.
What's up, man?
All right.
How are back there.
We are, paul Terry, in thehouse.
What's up, man, all right?
How are you guys doing?
Good man, we are well.
We are well Trying to be in theworld of wellness here.
What's the deal with dialysis?
And thank you for being here.
Yeah, yeah, as Maurice justsaid, like he's been, he
(02:45):
elevated to a new level in my interms of, you know, working
with kidney dialysis and andbeing part of the cause of, you
know, awareness and empoweringpeople to to be advocates for
themselves and, you know, inimplanting them deeper in the
industry to be able to affectchange in a positive way.
(03:07):
So, paul, give us kind of anintro to what you've been up to,
because I know your worldshifted a little bit.
Let us know what's happening,definitely.
Paul (03:18):
Well, after a 35-year career in dialysis, starting
with reuse and going all the wayto the biomed department, I
have have shifted, as you justmade mention of.
I still own my.
I still own my biomedicalservices company, um, which is a
contractor company, so I stillprovide primarily technical
support, but I'm really not inthe clinic as as much as I used
(03:39):
to be um.
As a matter of fact, my entirelife has shifted towards healthy
and wealthy, which is I'm nottrying to plug my brand right
there, but I am trying to plugmy brand you should be, let them
know.
like we said, we spent a lot ofyears putting people on dialysis
.
I spent 35 years putting peopleon dialysis.
(04:01):
The next 35 years, my primaryfocus will be to get them off of
dialysis and, like Maurice'sobjective has been, is to
educate people so that if youultimately end up on dialysis
anyway, you'll know that you'llbe able to put it off as long as
possible by adhering to some ofthe things that we've learned
over the course of our careersThings that will actually
(04:23):
improve kidney function, thingsthat will delay dialysis, things
that will improve overallhealth and basically eliminate
some of the symptoms with someof the syndromes, some of the
metabolic syndromes associatedthat ultimately lead to dialysis
.
So we've spent a lot of timefocusing and educating ourselves
and our immediate surroundingson these things, so that's where
(04:47):
the bulk of my time has beenspent.
Regarding the medical field asa whole, Got it.
Ira (04:54):
And so, maurice, you know we've talked outside of this
space just about you've beendiscovering some of the people
that you've been meeting and howyour perspective has changed a
little bit in terms of how youcan be effective and be.
You know the path forward, ifyou will.
(05:15):
So you know, you have somepoints of what you want to do,
what we're going to talk about,basically, if we were to call
this a second season of what todeal with dialysis Basically, if
we were to call this a secondseason of what to deal with
dialysis.
We're going to be going deeperto kind of show more
perspectives of the issue sothat everybody gets a more
(05:38):
well-rounded idea of what'sgoing on.
So tell us what you've been upto?
Maurice (05:42):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I want to make mentionabout Paul.
I mean, paul is together withme and you.
He has been a catalyst for thiswhole thing.
I mean, when we came up withthe idea of a podcast, of even
doing a podcast, paul was a partof that process and has always
been a part of the process.
I've always been bouncing stuffoff of Paul and you, you, uh,
(06:03):
behind the scenes and so, uh,paul is a catalyst as well for
this, and I just want to thankhim for indulging me man, like
I've been calling him, blowinghis phone up for years and we've
been going back and forth andthis is a product of those
conversations.
I mean literally a product, andwe've even even talked as early
as a couple of days ago aboutwhat this podcast, what this
(06:27):
episode would be about, and howit's changed us being outside of
the center.
Like he mentioned, we no longerwork in the center per se.
We still have contacts to thecenter, we still know people who
do, but it gave us a differentperspective.
Um, no, we tried to do as muchas we could do within the center
(06:48):
hierarchy.
Uh, what we realized is is that, um, to really affect change?
Uh, it's very difficult toaffect change when you're inside
the center, when you are anemployee of the people who may
or may not necessarily wantchange, um, and so that puts a
lot of pressure on you.
It creates a lot of animositywithin the center.
(07:10):
There can be retaliation withinthe center because of that, and
so, and particularly in my case, I worked in a center with
people who are in my community,most of which I knew before I
was ever a technician, and sothat creates, uh, some hierarchy
issues as well, because thesepeople are looking to me to help
(07:32):
them, and I mean, they'remembers of my church, friends of
my parents, um, people who I Iwent to school with their kids
Uh, some of those little ladiestook me to football practice,
their husbands to footballpractice, you know.
And so for them to come in thecenter and then to be treated
like they're just another personin the center was very
(07:54):
difficult for me to do, and Idon't think I was there to do
that.
I was there to give them asmuch.
You know I was able to givelove back to people who have
been giving me love all my life.
You know I was able to givelove back to people who have
been giving me love all my life.
Many of those people came inand somebody said I heard a lady
yell across the center, recy.
I said Recy, like nobody knowsme as Recy, like who's calling
(08:15):
me.
And this lady's, like you know,my mom's best friend's in the
center and she's, you know,going to have to have dialysis,
and so I know there'stechnicians out there somewhere
who have similar experiences andwe want to get them on our show
and talk to them about theirexperiences in the center as
well, because that's a differentdynamic.
You know, that's just not likegoing to your job and just like
doing something Right, that is.
(08:38):
You know there arerelationships that are already
built, and so we want to talkabout those relationships as we
move forward in this.
The other thing is is thatthere's new research out there,
and so you know I found out thatthere are nutritionists out
there who are talking aboutorganic diets for dialysis
patients, which was almostunheard of because of the
potassium in fruits that theywould keep patients away from
(09:01):
potassium, so they didn't wantthem to eat fruit.
There's also this idea that youknow we have dialysis patients
eat meat.
At high levels of meat, well,that meat turns into acid and
that makes their blood acidic,and that's what they are acidic
when they're on dialysis, and sothat's counterproductive to
(09:21):
what dialysis patients need.
And so this research is comingout now, and now we're seeing
the centers are still doing it.
I mean, it seems like theyhaven't moved over to this new
research, and so I've met somenutritionists that we're going
to have on the show and they'regoing to talk about some of this
new research that's out thereso that we can help patients and
(09:43):
their families navigate this alot better.
Some other things that'shappened in my community is that
there are patients who arecoming to me and they're saying,
hey, my doctor told me I needdialysis, and I'm like, ok, ok,
well then let's get a secondopinion on that, and so I've
been utilizing a doctor that'sin my community to give them a
(10:06):
second opinion.
What we're finding out is isthat many of those people don't
need to go on dialysis right yet, and so getting a second
opinion can change the dynamicof what you believe is happening
.
I've already experiencedpushback from that.
I've already experiencedpushback from that.
So the doctor that I've beensending them to for second
opinions has decided that, hey,if they come from this community
(10:28):
, they don't need a referral.
So now we are actually stoppingthe pushback.
We've actually put in place away where these patients can get
referral, I mean, they can seesomebody for a second opinion
(10:50):
without needing to go throughthis whole referral process,
which is the catalyst for thispushback.
And so these are just a fewthings that we want to share in
upcoming episodes and we want togive this to you know.
Once we consider we figure outwhat that program looks like
between the three of us, we wantto give that program to
communities all over the countryso that they can duplicate what
we've done here and they cansee some of the results that
we're seeing.
So that's just touching onwhere we're headed.
Paul (11:11):
Just a little bit about that.
Good things, good news, that'sgood.
Ira (11:15):
So yeah, paul, where do you see you know things we can do,
like topics that we can touch onfrom your perspective?
What is it that you know wherecan do like topics that we can
touch on from your perspective?
But is it that you know whereshould we go with this?
Paul (11:28):
okay, let me just chime in on some points that maurice
made.
Because, like he said, you alot of dialysis, patients are
very low in protein, which youknow destroys muscle mass, you
know, and and overall nothealthy to have low protein
levels.
And so what the dieticians,particularly renal dieticians,
are emphasizing to patients isto consume more and more meat.
(11:51):
But, like he just said, thatmeat will actually increase your
creatinine levels, which is aspinoff of cell metabolism.
I mean, it's the byproduct ofcell metabolism, that meat and,
like I said, it creates acid.
A lot of people may experienceor develop gout as a result of
consuming a lot of meat,especially red meat.
We all know that red meat isnot the most healthy meat to
(12:12):
consume for anybody, especiallydiastasis patients.
So I'm going to tell you likethis, ultimately, moving forward
, patients are going to find outthe hard way that one of the
best things that you can do toalleviate the acid content in
your body.
We tell them all the time.
It's like if you consume bakingsoda and water it will alkalize
your blood system, which willlower your acid levels.
(12:46):
I don't know if people have thestrength of character to fast,
but I can tell you personally,fasting will cure just about any
ailment that the body suffersfrom.
The problem is that requires alevel of discipline that most
dialysis patients have yet toachieve.
So, like he said, we're lookingat it as, after having been
employed for all of these yearsin dialysis, now we're coming
into this as a holisticperspective, which is counter
counter.
It's contrary to what they'reteaching in the industry Because
(13:09):
, like you said, dialysis is afor profit industry.
It's not, then I don't, wedon't know very many doctors who
have a high level of curing orreversing dialysis Once a
patient gets to the end, whichis that stage five, end stage.
Maurice (13:25):
Yeah, that stage five Once a patient gets on dialysis.
Paul (13:28):
Very few people actually ever recover.
I've known a few, but not thatmany.
Most of the ones that recoverthey either went somewhere else
and they sought out, you know, atreatment that was not FDA
approved Mexico, tijuana or theywent to some reservation and
had some Indian people, or theygot chelation.
(13:50):
There's a host of differenttreatments that are not FDA
approved and they're not popular.
Because if you like he justsaid, if you go into a clinic,
tell somebody listen, brock, Ican do chelation.
We can do A, b, c and D.
We can either lower yourincidences, we can lower the
amount of times you have to goto the house, or we can get you
off the house.
You're not going to be popularand you're going to get some
(14:11):
flat.
You're going to definitely getsome flat.
Yeah, you're going to becomethe enemy of the state of the
house.
Maurice (14:23):
And we've seen it.
I mean, we've seen the pushback, I've experienced the pushback,
paul has experienced thepushback.
Ultimately, that pushback isprobably why we're not in the
center today, if I be right.
If we had to put a moment oftime on it, if we had to say
what was the reason that wespent 30 odd years in the center
and we're not in there today.
Paul (14:42):
We bucked the system.
We always did.
That's why I said we startedout putting people on dialysis,
but moving forward, we'reultimately going to end up
taking people, removing peoplefrom that.
That's right.
It's what we recommend.
And, once again, like we alwayssay, baking soda is like the
cheapest.
That's one of the cheapestmedications that you can
purchase.
Maurice (15:01):
That's right and it doesn't.
That's one of the cheapestmedications that you can
purchase, that I tell all thepatients to take a table.
You know, before they're ondialysis I'm telling look, take
a tablespoon of baking soda, putin an 8 ounce glass of water,
mix it up in the morning anddrink that.
So you know people gonnaquestion that.
They're like why would I dothat?
So one of the ladies that Igrew up with her son.
(15:21):
He came to me.
He said they're telling my momshe needs to go on dialysis.
I said, hey, get a secondopinion.
He goes down to the secondopinion.
He says to the doctor that Iknow, hey, man, marisa's telling
my mom to do that.
And the doctor tells him hey,man, you'd be surprised how much
that can help kidney function.
And so you know it just tellshim.
(15:42):
He went back to the doctor thathe had before and he said why
didn't you tell me this?
Right, the doctor didn't havean answer.
Ira (15:50):
Yeah, I mean from where I stand in my spiritual world and
you know Paul talking aboutholistic medicine, I think that
is.
You know, that's the revolution.
That's not televised right.
So there's a whole host ofpeople that are working in
indigenous medicine, plantmedicine, um, you know the stuff
(16:13):
.
Like we used to brush our teethwith baking soda, right.
So now you're seeing that comearound, you like, you start to
see that on like, instagramposts of, like how to do the
natural things that you know ourpeople have known how to do
forever.
You know what I mean.
But like the, the, the money,people like the people that are
(16:33):
capitalizing on poor folks andpeople who just don't understand
exactly, like have industriesaround taking those natural
things out, like there's notmuch natural about our living,
especially in this country atthis point.
So myself, I'm going to costarica to learn more, um, I set up
(16:56):
a space where I can bringpeople to learn more, um, and
that's, I think, in the future.
What's the deal with dialysis isbeing able to, you know, run
some retreats and try to tofight from the outside, um,
where they can't get us and theycan't stop us and they can't
right.
You know, you know, and, and tome it's divine that you guys
(17:17):
have been in the system tounderstand the system, to be
able to correct the system right, and so you guys are coming
into your own self-realization,if you will, of purpose.
Right.
It's, like you know, in myworld right now, like a lot of
the things that I've done anddidn't really understand why I
was doing them.
(17:38):
The wisdom of our age isunderstanding that these are the
things that have been put inour pathway to get us to where
we are and to get us where we'regoing.
All right, well, yeah, sothat's what we're up to, that's
the newness that's coming to usto deal with dialysis.
So I want to invite people tostay tuned.
(18:00):
I don't want to give away toomuch of it.
I think we're going to, likeyou guys, have anything that you
want to say at this moment,let's do it.
Paul (18:07):
I want to go to costa rica and I want to, and I want to.
I want to reiterate what youjust said.
We need you guys to participate, to spread this message out
there because, like you justalluded to, basically health
care is going to go back to theoriginal, its original formation
, which is natural, holistic,you can call it which doctor,
you call the food, you callwhatever you want to call it,
but it's ultimately going to goback to its roots, which were a
(18:29):
lot more effective eating thingsout of your yard.
You know, people are going tostart back raising their own
livestock.
They're going to raise theirown chicken, they're going to
eat natural eggs that they fedto their chickens.
They're not going to be goingto the grocery store and that's.
That's like you say.
You get a kickback from theindustry, you get a kickback
from pharmaceuticals when youstart to go against the grain,
as it were.
Maurice (18:50):
Well, I want to say this you know, you talked about
how we came to a point where weunderstood why we were there,
and me and Paul talk about ourtime.
We used to say God is in thebuilding Right, and so we didn't
know that that's Well.
Let's go back to this.
Let me just give you a littlebit of background.
Me and Paul went to collegetogether.
(19:11):
So this is crazy.
So, college together.
I end up leaving California,coming to Ohio.
Paul is leaving college as well, going back home to San
Bernardino.
We, we, we reconnect, and weboth working in dialysis.
Right, you can't make this up.
We both working in the samefield, we find out.
(19:34):
We the same person.
It's all divine, it's all divine.
You see what I mean.
Ira (19:41):
Say it again Ira, it's all divine, there's no coincidences
here, there ain't nocoincidences.
We're working in the same space.
We just have to release, let goand believe trust and believe
that it's already done.
It's already done, it's alreadydone, that's right.
And the pieces keep fallinginto place.
(20:01):
I see it as a big puzzle man.
Every day I get a piece of thepuzzle.
It just becomes clear, theimage becomes clearer and
clearer.
There's a lot of things thathappen in our society that we
just can't participate inbecause the vibration is just
not right and real.
Maurice (20:22):
That's just a little bit of background about me and
Paul.
That's how we ended up both inthis dialysis center.
We had these conversations foryears and we, we, we got pushed
back for years, for years and wekept going back because we had
a job.
I mean, we had work to do.
It wasn't a job for us, it wasdivine work.
(20:43):
And when you're doing divinework and all these technicians
don't know, but they're doingdivine work, they're there for a
reason.
We need to tell them whythey're there.
They don't know.
Ira (20:52):
They think they're there to get a paycheck.
Maurice (20:54):
That ain't what they're there for, and they don't know
it.
And so we want to be advocatesfor them, we want to empower
them, and what's the deal withdialysis is that thing that
we're going to use to do thatfor these technicians?
Being a technician is an art.
It's an art form.
Man.
They don't even know the artform yet.
But we're going to expressthese things to them and they're
(21:15):
going to be anew once theyrealize what work they really
are there to do.
Ira (21:19):
Of course, so I invite people to keep coming back.
There's new energy.
I'm sure you can tell if you'vebeen here before.
It'll never be the same.
So we're on a mission, y'all,and we're doing the do.
Like you know, dialysis hascome through my life, my world,
my sister yeah, you know, mysister will be a reoccurring
(21:41):
character, because she's acharacter for sure.
But, but, but, and we'll justuse and no buts, and, like I
said, it's all divine and we'regoing to just claim it, we're
going to trust and believe thatwe are doing what's necessary to
be done.
So, with that, we're going tosay peace to you all.
(22:02):
Thank you.
Paul (22:04):
Thank you for having me.
I appreciate this, I really do.
Thank you for having me.
I appreciate this.
I really appreciate theplatform and the opportunity to
share with some of what we'veknown because I've been doing.
I have done that for 35 years,but I'm still 36, going on 36
years, absolutely same with youbecause you're part of the inc.
You're part of nasty kidneynational kidney foundation.
Yes, yes, yeah, yeah, activelyright yeah, actively, yeah.
Maurice (22:25):
Kimmy Foundation yes, yes, yeah, actively.
Right, yeah, actively, yeah.
They have me sitting on some ofthe boards with them and
actually in September, me andIra and you will be at a booth
at a patient symposium in theCincinnati area.
So if you're watching fromCincinnati, you can come and see
us in the flesh in September.
Paul (22:41):
Look, ira, stay tuned.
We don't want you to missnothing.
Stay tuned, that's right, staytuned.
Ira (22:44):
We don't want you to miss nothing.
Stay tuned, that's right.
Maurice (22:49):
The next episode.
That's right.
Paul (22:53):
I need to post this episode.
Y'all, make sure y'all shoot methis today.
We will we will With that.
Ira (23:01):
Just take care of yourself.
Love yourself.
Yes, be your authentic self.
Just know that.
Wellness holistic wellness.
Be an advocate for yourself.
Yes, be your authentic self.
That's right.
Just another wellness, holisticwellness, like be an advocate
for yourself and stick with us,we'll help you through.
Yeah, more is coming All right.
Paul (23:17):
Be well, be well.
Peace and blessings y'all.
Peace and blessings.
Yes, sir, peace and blessings.
Signing out.
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