Navigating the healthcare system can be like walking through a maze blindfolded – fraught with unexpected turns and often overwhelming. Yet, we're pulling back the curtain to explore the real stories and challenges that patients and healthcare professionals face daily. Our latest episode peels back the layers of healthcare dynamics and the importance of advocacy, not just by professionals but by patients and their families. We examine the delicate dance between technicians and nurses, and the repercussions that healthcare compensation models have on patient care. Our discussion illuminates the stark reality of socioeconomic disparities affecting patient outcomes, brought to life with tales from specific communities.
Then, we're honored to share the microphone with a kidney transplant recipient whose resilience epitomizes the spirit of advocacy and self-care. Her journey from the anxiety-ridden wait for a transplant to the profound adjustments post-surgery paints a vivid picture of the emotional rollercoaster that transplant patients ride. We also turn an eye to the systemic changes needed to improve patient education, especially for those in underprivileged communities. It's an episode rich with the raw emotion of personal experiences and the wisdom gleaned from years of navigating and advocating within the healthcare system. Join us for a heartfelt conversation that's not just about the challenges, but the triumphs and calls to action that could reshape the future of patient care.
With hosts Maurice Carlisle and Ira McAliley
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
If you can say hi and bye, you all right.
But when you get home you gotto stand up to get out of that
wheelchair, and your bloodpressure is going to plummet
when you stand up and that's whyyou don't feel good, and so the
idea that you can leave under ahundred is just ludicrous.
I mean, we want people to beover a hundred blood pressure to
(00:21):
drive their car and I think itshould be the same for you to
get out of that chair to walk inyour house, right?
And so that's where we'refailing the patients is that
technicians are basically beingbullied.
I mean, if you've got two yearsas a technician and a nurse
(00:43):
tells you something, you'rescared.
I mean it's only because I hadall that experience that I
wasn't intimidated by nursesthat I worked with.
If somebody were two years,they're gonna be intimidated
Right Right out the gate.
I mean that nurse is gonna tellthem what to do and, quite
frankly, we are working underthe nurse's license, but that
(01:04):
nurse may not know you as wellas I know you Absolutely.
I may see you three days inthat we can have a nurse who
might see you one.
She can't make that decisionbased on that one time she saw
you and I can, because I saw youthree times Right, and so it
used to be that there was abetter relationship, but they
(01:25):
kind of ruined that relationshipso they could get compensation
Right, see, and so that's thedynamics behind all of that.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
Yeah, if you think for a fact, I mean that nurses
really do know.
I mean, like I said, I mean youknow you're rushed through and
you get maybe three months ofsomething, I mean come on, and
then you come out and get hired.
I mean I had no idea, like whatwas even going on, mm-hmm.
(01:59):
So to me walking that position,you know, and me as a
practitioner, I think it's sofunny.
Nurses act a lot like they knowwhat they're doing and they
like to pretend.
But yeah, it's just not thecase all the time.
When you're dealing withpractitioners that say always
(02:22):
and never, I mean it's never agood idea.
Um, you know, I'd be wrongcomfortable.
I'd be looking for guys likeyou and I did.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
I mean, we had long conversations and Came in the
center to see your dad like,yeah, frequently that was before
cobit and all that.
So I should just say, but youand your brother came in a lot
and set with your dad and andand then we had a lot of
conversations.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
Um, and I think that's another happened.
And that that was another thing.
The dynamics of having that Um,continuity of care, I know
you'd always look, you know,look to have dad, yes, and and
it wasn't.
It wasn't like that.
Um, you know you, you twosingle-handedly, um, I wouldn't,
(03:09):
I wouldn't say whistleblowers,but you were the Um, the bad cog
in the whole thing.
You know it's that being proud,you know, and saying hey, you
guys, like man, you really, youknow, I think this is important
for you know people to knowmaybe they'd be a little bit
more compliant.
Um, so many times you see itthat you just, and it's a
(03:32):
dynamics of of where you work atnewark, I mean that's a poorer
community and um, you know, soyou do see a lot more.
You know non-compliance, wouldI mean anything from diet, I
mean these people, you know theythey probably been on the
system.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
They kind of reward the foods that they need right
right, when you start talkingabout disability and you start
saying, okay, I, you need to eat, you know, lean meats and
fruits and vegetables and those,those things are very expensive
, right, they can't afford those.
And so they eat what they canafford, which just happens to be
(04:11):
a bad thing for their kidneysUsually it's high in sodium.
Yes, so they're doomed.
I mean, it's not their fault.
You know, by the time all ofthis stuff went on with me and
your dad, and you know, I gotall that stuff down and the
doctor was actually listening alittle bit, right?
Um, I got called in the officeand they told me they figured
out what I was doing.
It took them a minute, but theyfigured it out.
(04:34):
So they brought me in theoffice.
They said, maurice, you can'tgive more than 200 cc's of
saline without without asking anurse, without asking a nurse.
And so it was kind of like theycould.
You know, they just kept tryingto figure out ways that they
could belittle me, right, butall they were doing was just
making themselves run crazybecause I was going to do what I
was going to do anyway, becauseI knew it was best for them,
(04:57):
and so, you know, I just kind offigured out a way.
I just figured out a way tomake it work within the dynamics
of what they do, uh, but by theend of it I mean they were
treating me like I was someonewho had less than a week of
experience.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
I know and you trained everyone in there.
That's an idea Well yeah, I was.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
I was a precept pretty much in everybody in
there, but I think the problemin on was the people, that that
you trained like brook Mm-hmm.
I mean you was right, brookewas intimidated by the nurses
and shit, but anyway she did thebest that she could.
And you know that nurse wouldsay something to her and Brooke
(05:42):
would look at me and then she'dgive me them high eyebrows like
wow, anyway.
And then if you do, you rememberErica?
Yes, I do, my god, she was.
She was an angel, yes, yes, andI'm sorry, she, I mean she
listen.
She must listen to you too much, because she had a mind of her
(06:04):
own.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
She was a strong person.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
She did really really well, right, and she, and she
told me everything.
I mean, you know.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
You start out just beautiful people.
I mean yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
But I pass that on right.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Yeah, I'm glad you passed that on the brook.
I'm sure that made her a better.
Better tech and a better nurse.
Yeah that's what you startedfor yeah, well, that's great.
Really proud of you there, theway you went playing, so just do
Thank you.
They kind of Took over when youleft off with they didn't right
(06:43):
, eric, or one as far asquitting.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Yeah, you know, told me she says they're gonna kill
somebody in here.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Yeah, she left.
She's actually at one of theother centers in Columbus now.
Oh, yeah, I know her parents.
So that's one of those thingsby being in the same you know
city and being in my hometown, Iknew a lot of the people.
Yeah, her parents.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
But you did make me well, and you made me.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Good.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
It was just save one, and if you're the one that I
save, I mean it was well wortheverything, every minute of it.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
From the, from the day I walked in there, you made
me comfortable.
I mean, when I came in, youknow you use you started
explaining what you was gonna doand and you started encouraging
me, like saying Jeff, you'regonna feel better.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
I remember.
Yeah, remember they tried tofoil it but I wasn't having it.
They were determined but I was.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
I was more determined , so my question is how do we
affect change, like, how do wetake this dynamic and have that
spread?
I mean, already you knowMaurice is one person, but he
does everything that he can doand you know we try to inspire
others, to inspire others, youknow, and try to pass it along,
but systematically, is there'ssomething that anybody can think
(08:16):
of that could help shift that?
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Is a perfect example.
Right, what we did.
I think this is a perfectexample.
I hope people see this.
I hope they hope techniciansare empowered To stand up.
I mean, you do need a littlebit of experience to do that.
I think that Dynamically, rightnow, because of COVID and
(08:40):
everything this went on, I thinkyou have younger technicians In
dialysis centers now becauseall the people that were With
experience, like me, they leftthe industry.
They were, they were pushed out.
Yeah, so you know, I thinkcenters figure out.
You know, if I got young peopleand I mold them the way I want
them to be, I don't have thisdynamic that shows up, but it's
(09:01):
gonna show up because peoplecare.
When you are a dialysistechnician, if you care about
people, you're gonna arrive atthe same conclusions that I
arrived at.
But you have to care, right.
Right, it can't be just a joblike you working at McDonald's
and you just bring out the fries.
No, you have to.
You have to care about thepeople you take care of.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
And I think if that dynamic exists and we get here,
Well it's, it's leaving likewith parent neodylosis, like
they celebrate and they do allthis patient education and, and,
you know, after they get done.
You know, I think it should bemandatory that well, we need
what we, what we really need isBlood pressure control.
(09:48):
I mean, if you look at thepatient populations, you know
Native Americans, africanAmericans, like, and, but
they're all the poor people thatthat suffer the most and
because it's easy to pass a pilloff, they don't.
You know, they teach nothing.
You know dad was exposed toAgent Orange and you know, I
(10:11):
think part of the reason he gota Kidney is because he was a
combat veteran and I think thatyou know, probably played a role
in it.
But I mean Not only, I mean forhemodialysis, there needs to be
mandatory education that Idon't think you know happens
(10:31):
like it should, and there needsto be a standard set, you know.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Yes, it's too little, too late.
I mean, we we have educationprograms, but they're not
offered to people who aren't ondialysis yet right which and
that's where.
That's where it should start.
Yes, I mean it should start atCKD, which is 60% kidney.
It starts with 15%.
I mean we've got a long way togo.
(10:57):
There's a lot of percentagesbetween there that we could be
educating people and helpingthem understand what's happening
to them.
I know right now me and I havetalked about it Patients can be
put on the transplant listbefore they ever go into a
dialysis center and have atreatment, but 99% of the
(11:18):
patients don't know that Right.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Right, and that's true man.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Yeah, they just don't know.
And so that's why we're doingwhat's to do with dialysis, so
that people can ask thosequestions, so they can go away
from these conversations and say, hey, you told me that I'm at
25% and you haven't even askedme about transplant, right?
You haven't even asked me.
Do I have a family?
Remember?
They want to give me a kidney.
All you keep telling me is youwant me to go to this center,
(11:43):
this is the address and this isthe day I need to show up, and
you don't even tell me what toexpect.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
Right, absolutely.
And then they're getting to geton dialysis and it's all magic
to them.
They're hooked up to a machine.
No one does any kind ofeducation.
They go home and eat pizza anddo whatever.
I mean, no one is doinganything and it is a factor, and
(12:08):
it is a moneymaker,unfortunately, in any industry.
An empty chair and ate stuff insomeone's pocket.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
An empty chair isn't making them any money.
I tell you.
The other thing is, Mr Butler,do you remember any training
that the company would give you?
I think we would pass off thesepieces of paper and have you
sign that.
You got the paper.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
Throw your labs and stuff.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yeah, but nobody would ever go over the paper
with you.
We'd just hand it to you andask you to sign.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Absolutely Well.
Fortunately, I have a prettysmart wife and, like I said, my
son's a nurse and my wife wouldalways look up the results,
exactly what they were and how Iwas doing.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Right, right, and then there's the answer.
There's the answer.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
We all have to get it yourself.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Yeah, your family has to be an advocate for you and
to have it Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Yeah, that's for sure , and I'm proud to call you
family?
Speaker 2 (13:19):
I mean, yes, you are family, sir, absolutely,
absolutely.
And you tell Mrs Butler, I saidhello, I have a seat.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Well, I hope she came out here and add to this Right.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Right, yeah, it's always.
We always talked a lot, me andher as well.
Yes, when you were there, she'dcome pick you up and come in
and sit with you for a whilebefore we got you off the
machine.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Right Then to treat you to this.
The last one.
I had the first one and thenthe last one.
That was real good help atDeVita and then good, good, good
.
But, like I say, my wife alwaysmade sure that I, you know,
followed the diet.
(14:02):
You know.
They'd hand out those brochuresof what you should and should
you know.
And, uh, my wife I mean she,she even read the labels at the
grocery store absolutely, wehave to yeah, she says.
That's why it always took her anhour more in the store, because
she had to read every labelwell, it was well worth it.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
You see the outcome right.
You see the success did youhave and how you feel.
All of that is a testimony toyour family and into your sons
man, I sure appreciate yourecommend me for the transplant.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Yeah, absolutely.
At one summer I spent allsummer going through the
astronaut physical.
That's what I called it for thekidney transplant right right.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
That's about what it is.
You gotta go to a bunch ofappointments yeah, a bunch
appointments.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
You know you have to do the air chamber thing and, uh
, the treadmill, and I forgetthere was three or four other
things right dentist, rightdentist yeah all those things.
Yep, I had to have a root canalbefore I had to transplant.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Yeah, I know they make you do a lot yeah, if I had
.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Uh, I had a great dentist jump through hoops and
make sure that was done good andwell, all in all, you know,
like I say, it's been two yearssince the transplant, awesome.
And then I figured uh well, I'dbe on a transplant list.
You know, they said two yearsyeah yeah, in December they
(15:33):
called me and told me that, uh,I was eligible for a transplant.
Uh, in January, 4, 30 in themorning they called me wow is
that we have a kidney for youman.
That's a blessing so they saidpack your bag and come on up.
Well, I almost get to OSUhospital and they called me back
(15:54):
instead of the family had uhremorse about it and uh go home
okay but it wasn't too much.
Later they called me again, andso that was fast Mo.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Good, good, I'm glad.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
I want to ask Kyra, how's your sister doing?
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Yeah she's doing well .
She's always been active, she'skind of a political activist and
she has six children and 10grand children and like she was
on paratoneal and she would take, she would go on trips, like
she went to Europe and had herfluid shift and so and she was
(16:39):
very much an advocate forherself.
Like she will do the research,she will stand up for herself.
If somebody goes the wrong,she'll have switched out Like
she's that person and so she's.
You know.
The one thing that she doesn'tdo is she doesn't slow down.
So she needs to kind of slowdown a little bit.
After having her transplantshe's lost weight, she's very
(17:01):
vibrant and I appreciate youasking.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
Did you see ups and downs with her?
I mean post transplant, I meanas far as morale, and did I do
the right thing?
Because I think there for awhile you're almost sicker than
you know what you were ondialysis.
And you know another thing withdialysis you forge friendships
and you get used to seeing thosepeople and you know it was like
(17:27):
a whole, totally differentlifestyle.
I mean right, and one time toldme it was bored not being in a
dialysis Right.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Don't get saved.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Part of your routine.
Like for her, though, becauseshe was on peritoneal, she was
at home and she did her ownthing, and like yeah, in the
visit, me and she like grabbedthe coat rack and put her bag up
and like we sat and talkedwhile she did her exchange.
You know it's very casual aboutit and you know she wasn't
trying to hide it, so thatworked for her.
(17:57):
You know it doesn't work foreveryone and you know so after
her transplant, I mean, it'sonly been, yeah, margie, months,
it's only, it's recent.
So you did have rightafterwards she had a minor thing
that she had to go in for andbut it's the compatibility.
(18:21):
I forget how you know rejectionfactor and there's, like
different meds that you have totake to for, oh, tackle MS
attack levels, and I'm afraidyou have to take those.
The rest of her life, yeah sohe's just figuring all that out.
I mean, she, she didn't get her.
She went five different times,I think it was, until she got
her kidney, the first two timesbecause she wasn't vaccinated,
(18:43):
they wouldn't let her have it,and then, I think, two that
wound up being bad, and thenfinally got it on the fifth time
.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
Now she out in California to know she's
actually in Jacksonville,Florida, oh nice.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
And when she started on dialysis she was in
Pennsylvania.
She was in Reading, reading,pennsylvania, see yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
Yeah, she seems real positive though.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
She's, definitely she's you know, you know strong
woman.
She does her thing and shedefinitely is an advocate for
others.
I mean, she she's got a nursingdegree and then she became a
social worker, so she's verymuch an advocate for others.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
Right, yeah, yeah, it's tough, god bless her.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
I mean, we interviewed her post transplant
as well.
We'll be putting that up next.
We were just trying to figureout a couple of logistical
things, because some of thestuff that I've been putting up,
we wanted to change the qualityof it and stuff like that.
So we're just figuring that out.
But yeah, well, you'll beseeing that come up here pretty
soon as well.
If you can say hi and bye, you all right.
But when you get home you gotto stand up to get out of that
wheelchair, and your bloodpressure is going to plummet
when you stand up and that's whyyou don't feel good, and so the
idea that you can leave under ahundred is just ludicrous.
I mean, we want people to beover a hundred blood pressure to
(00:21):
drive their car and I think itshould be the same for you to
get out of that chair to walk inyour house, right?
And so that's where we'refailing the patients is that
technicians are basically beingbullied.
I mean, if you've got two yearsas a technician and a nurse
(00:43):
tells you something, you'rescared.
I mean it's only because I hadall that experience that I
wasn't intimidated by nursesthat I worked with.
If somebody were two years,they're gonna be intimidated
Right Right out the gate.
I mean that nurse is gonna tellthem what to do and, quite
frankly, we are working underthe nurse's license, but that
(01:04):
nurse may not know you as wellas I know you Absolutely.
I may see you three days inthat we can have a nurse who
might see you one.
She can't make that decisionbased on that one time she saw
you and I can, because I saw youthree times Right, and so it
used to be that there was abetter relationship, but they
(01:25):
kind of ruined that relationshipso they could get compensation
Right, see, and so that's thedynamics behind all of that.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
Yeah, if you think for a fact, I mean that nurses
really do know.
I mean, like I said, I mean youknow you're rushed through and
you get maybe three months ofsomething, I mean come on, and
then you come out and get hired.
I mean I had no idea, like whatwas even going on, mm-hmm.
(01:59):
So to me walking that position,you know, and me as a
practitioner, I think it's sofunny.
Nurses act a lot like they knowwhat they're doing and they
like to pretend.
But yeah, it's just not thecase all the time.
When you're dealing withpractitioners that say always
(02:22):
and never, I mean it's never agood idea.
Um, you know, I'd be wrongcomfortable.
I'd be looking for guys likeyou and I did.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
I mean, we had long conversations and Came in the
center to see your dad like,yeah, frequently that was before
cobit and all that.
So I should just say, but youand your brother came in a lot
and set with your dad and andand then we had a lot of
conversations.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
Um, and I think that's another happened.
And that that was another thing.
The dynamics of having that Um,continuity of care, I know
you'd always look, you know,look to have dad, yes, and and
it wasn't.
It wasn't like that.
Um, you know you, you twosingle-handedly, um, I wouldn't,
(03:09):
I wouldn't say whistleblowers,but you were the Um, the bad cog
in the whole thing.
You know it's that being proud,you know, and saying hey, you
guys, like man, you really, youknow, I think this is important
for you know people to knowmaybe they'd be a little bit
more compliant.
Um, so many times you see itthat you just, and it's a
(03:32):
dynamics of of where you work atnewark, I mean that's a poorer
community and um, you know, soyou do see a lot more.
You know non-compliance, wouldI mean anything from diet, I
mean these people, you know theythey probably been on the
system.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
They kind of reward the foods that they need right
right, when you start talkingabout disability and you start
saying, okay, I, you need to eat, you know, lean meats and
fruits and vegetables and those,those things are very expensive
, right, they can't afford those.
And so they eat what they canafford, which just happens to be
(04:11):
a bad thing for their kidneysUsually it's high in sodium.
Yes, so they're doomed.
I mean, it's not their fault.
You know, by the time all ofthis stuff went on with me and
your dad, and you know, I gotall that stuff down and the
doctor was actually listening alittle bit, right?
Um, I got called in the officeand they told me they figured
out what I was doing.
It took them a minute, but theyfigured it out.
(04:34):
So they brought me in theoffice.
They said, maurice, you can'tgive more than 200 cc's of
saline without without asking anurse, without asking a nurse.
And so it was kind of like theycould.
You know, they just kept tryingto figure out ways that they
could belittle me, right, butall they were doing was just
making themselves run crazybecause I was going to do what I
was going to do anyway, becauseI knew it was best for them,
(04:57):
and so, you know, I just kind offigured out a way.
I just figured out a way tomake it work within the dynamics
of what they do, uh, but by theend of it I mean they were
treating me like I was someonewho had less than a week of
experience.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
I know and you trained everyone in there.
That's an idea Well yeah, I was.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
I was a precept pretty much in everybody in
there, but I think the problemin on was the people, that that
you trained like brook Mm-hmm.
I mean you was right, brookewas intimidated by the nurses
and shit, but anyway she did thebest that she could.
And you know that nurse wouldsay something to her and Brooke
(05:42):
would look at me and then she'dgive me them high eyebrows like
wow, anyway.
And then if you do, you rememberErica?
Yes, I do, my god, she was.
She was an angel, yes, yes, andI'm sorry, she, I mean she
listen.
She must listen to you too much, because she had a mind of her
(06:04):
own.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
She was a strong person.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
She did really really well, right, and she, and she
told me everything.
I mean, you know.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
You start out just beautiful people.
I mean yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
But I pass that on right.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Yeah, I'm glad you passed that on the brook.
I'm sure that made her a better.
Better tech and a better nurse.
Yeah that's what you startedfor yeah, well, that's great.
Really proud of you there, theway you went playing, so just do
Thank you.
They kind of Took over when youleft off with they didn't right
(06:43):
, eric, or one as far asquitting.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Yeah, you know, told me she says they're gonna kill
somebody in here.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Yeah, she left.
She's actually at one of theother centers in Columbus now.
Oh, yeah, I know her parents.
So that's one of those thingsby being in the same you know
city and being in my hometown, Iknew a lot of the people.
Yeah, her parents.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
But you did make me well, and you made me.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Good.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
It was just save one, and if you're the one that I
save, I mean it was well wortheverything, every minute of it.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
From the, from the day I walked in there, you made
me comfortable.
I mean, when I came in, youknow you use you started
explaining what you was gonna doand and you started encouraging
me, like saying Jeff, you'regonna feel better.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
I remember.
Yeah, remember they tried tofoil it but I wasn't having it.
They were determined but I was.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
I was more determined , so my question is how do we
affect change, like, how do wetake this dynamic and have that
spread?
I mean, already you knowMaurice is one person, but he
does everything that he can doand you know we try to inspire
others, to inspire others, youknow, and try to pass it along,
but systematically, is there'ssomething that anybody can think
(08:16):
of that could help shift that?
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Is a perfect example.
Right, what we did.
I think this is a perfectexample.
I hope people see this.
I hope they hope techniciansare empowered To stand up.
I mean, you do need a littlebit of experience to do that.
I think that Dynamically, rightnow, because of COVID and
(08:40):
everything this went on, I thinkyou have younger technicians In
dialysis centers now becauseall the people that were With
experience, like me, they leftthe industry.
They were, they were pushed out.
Yeah, so you know, I thinkcenters figure out.
You know, if I got young peopleand I mold them the way I want
them to be, I don't have thisdynamic that shows up, but it's
(09:01):
gonna show up because peoplecare.
When you are a dialysistechnician, if you care about
people, you're gonna arrive atthe same conclusions that I
arrived at.
But you have to care, right.
Right, it can't be just a joblike you working at McDonald's
and you just bring out the fries.
No, you have to.
You have to care about thepeople you take care of.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
And I think if that dynamic exists and we get here,
Well it's, it's leaving likewith parent neodylosis, like
they celebrate and they do allthis patient education and, and,
you know, after they get done.
You know, I think it should bemandatory that well, we need
what we, what we really need isBlood pressure control.
(09:48):
I mean, if you look at thepatient populations, you know
Native Americans, africanAmericans, like, and, but
they're all the poor people thatthat suffer the most and
because it's easy to pass a pilloff, they don't.
You know, they teach nothing.
You know dad was exposed toAgent Orange and you know, I
(10:11):
think part of the reason he gota Kidney is because he was a
combat veteran and I think thatyou know, probably played a role
in it.
But I mean Not only, I mean forhemodialysis, there needs to be
mandatory education that Idon't think you know happens
(10:31):
like it should, and there needsto be a standard set, you know.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Yes, it's too little, too late.
I mean, we we have educationprograms, but they're not
offered to people who aren't ondialysis yet right which and
that's where.
That's where it should start.
Yes, I mean it should start atCKD, which is 60% kidney.
It starts with 15%.
I mean we've got a long way togo.
(10:57):
There's a lot of percentagesbetween there that we could be
educating people and helpingthem understand what's happening
to them.
I know right now me and I havetalked about it Patients can be
put on the transplant listbefore they ever go into a
dialysis center and have atreatment, but 99% of the
(11:18):
patients don't know that Right.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Right, and that's true man.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Yeah, they just don't know.
And so that's why we're doingwhat's to do with dialysis, so
that people can ask thosequestions, so they can go away
from these conversations and say, hey, you told me that I'm at
25% and you haven't even askedme about transplant, right?
You haven't even asked me.
Do I have a family?
Remember?
They want to give me a kidney.
All you keep telling me is youwant me to go to this center,
(11:43):
this is the address and this isthe day I need to show up, and
you don't even tell me what toexpect.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
Right, absolutely.
And then they're getting to geton dialysis and it's all magic
to them.
They're hooked up to a machine.
No one does any kind ofeducation.
They go home and eat pizza anddo whatever.
I mean, no one is doinganything and it is a factor, and
(12:08):
it is a moneymaker,unfortunately, in any industry.
An empty chair and ate stuff insomeone's pocket.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
An empty chair isn't making them any money.
I tell you.
The other thing is, Mr Butler,do you remember any training
that the company would give you?
I think we would pass off thesepieces of paper and have you
sign that.
You got the paper.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
Throw your labs and stuff.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yeah, but nobody would ever go over the paper
with you.
We'd just hand it to you andask you to sign.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Absolutely Well.
Fortunately, I have a prettysmart wife and, like I said, my
son's a nurse and my wife wouldalways look up the results,
exactly what they were and how Iwas doing.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Right, right, and then there's the answer.
There's the answer.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
We all have to get it yourself.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Yeah, your family has to be an advocate for you and
to have it Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Yeah, that's for sure , and I'm proud to call you
family?
Speaker 2 (13:19):
I mean, yes, you are family, sir, absolutely,
absolutely.
And you tell Mrs Butler, I saidhello, I have a seat.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Well, I hope she came out here and add to this Right.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Right, yeah, it's always.
We always talked a lot, me andher as well.
Yes, when you were there, she'dcome pick you up and come in
and sit with you for a whilebefore we got you off the
machine.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Right Then to treat you to this.
The last one.
I had the first one and thenthe last one.
That was real good help atDeVita and then good, good, good
.
But, like I say, my wife alwaysmade sure that I, you know,
followed the diet.
(14:02):
You know.
They'd hand out those brochuresof what you should and should
you know.
And, uh, my wife I mean she,she even read the labels at the
grocery store absolutely, wehave to yeah, she says.
That's why it always took her anhour more in the store, because
she had to read every labelwell, it was well worth it.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
You see the outcome right.
You see the success did youhave and how you feel.
All of that is a testimony toyour family and into your sons
man, I sure appreciate yourecommend me for the transplant.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Yeah, absolutely.
At one summer I spent allsummer going through the
astronaut physical.
That's what I called it for thekidney transplant right right.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
That's about what it is.
You gotta go to a bunch ofappointments yeah, a bunch
appointments.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
You know you have to do the air chamber thing and, uh
, the treadmill, and I forgetthere was three or four other
things right dentist, rightdentist yeah all those things.
Yep, I had to have a root canalbefore I had to transplant.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Yeah, I know they make you do a lot yeah, if I had
.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Uh, I had a great dentist jump through hoops and
make sure that was done good andwell, all in all, you know,
like I say, it's been two yearssince the transplant, awesome.
And then I figured uh well, I'dbe on a transplant list.
You know, they said two yearsyeah yeah, in December they
(15:33):
called me and told me that, uh,I was eligible for a transplant.
Uh, in January, 4, 30 in themorning they called me wow is
that we have a kidney for youman.
That's a blessing so they saidpack your bag and come on up.
Well, I almost get to OSUhospital and they called me back
(15:54):
instead of the family had uhremorse about it and uh go home
okay but it wasn't too much.
Later they called me again, andso that was fast Mo.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Good, good, I'm glad.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
I want to ask Kyra, how's your sister doing?
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Yeah she's doing well .
She's always been active, she'skind of a political activist and
she has six children and 10grand children and like she was
on paratoneal and she would take, she would go on trips, like
she went to Europe and had herfluid shift and so and she was
(16:39):
very much an advocate forherself.
Like she will do the research,she will stand up for herself.
If somebody goes the wrong,she'll have switched out Like
she's that person and so she's.
You know.
The one thing that she doesn'tdo is she doesn't slow down.
So she needs to kind of slowdown a little bit.
After having her transplantshe's lost weight, she's very
(17:01):
vibrant and I appreciate youasking.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
Did you see ups and downs with her?
I mean post transplant, I meanas far as morale, and did I do
the right thing?
Because I think there for awhile you're almost sicker than
you know what you were ondialysis.
And you know another thing withdialysis you forge friendships
and you get used to seeing thosepeople and you know it was like
(17:27):
a whole, totally differentlifestyle.
I mean right, and one time toldme it was bored not being in a
dialysis Right.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Don't get saved.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Part of your routine.
Like for her, though, becauseshe was on peritoneal, she was
at home and she did her ownthing, and like yeah, in the
visit, me and she like grabbedthe coat rack and put her bag up
and like we sat and talkedwhile she did her exchange.
You know it's very casual aboutit and you know she wasn't
trying to hide it, so thatworked for her.
(17:57):
You know it doesn't work foreveryone and you know so after
her transplant, I mean, it'sonly been, yeah, margie, months,
it's only, it's recent.
So you did have rightafterwards she had a minor thing
that she had to go in for andbut it's the compatibility.
(18:21):
I forget how you know rejectionfactor and there's, like
different meds that you have totake to for, oh, tackle MS
attack levels, and I'm afraidyou have to take those.
The rest of her life, yeah sohe's just figuring all that out.
I mean, she, she didn't get her.
She went five different times,I think it was, until she got
her kidney, the first two timesbecause she wasn't vaccinated,
(18:43):
they wouldn't let her have it,and then, I think, two that
wound up being bad, and thenfinally got it on the fifth time
.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
Now she out in California to know she's
actually in Jacksonville,Florida, oh nice.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
And when she started on dialysis she was in
Pennsylvania.
She was in Reading, reading,pennsylvania, see yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
Yeah, she seems real positive though.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
She's, definitely she's you know, you know strong
woman.
She does her thing and shedefinitely is an advocate for
others.
I mean, she she's got a nursingdegree and then she became a
social worker, so she's verymuch an advocate for others.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
Right, yeah, yeah, it's tough, god bless her.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
I mean, we interviewed her post transplant
as well.
We'll be putting that up next.
We were just trying to figureout a couple of logistical
things, because some of thestuff that I've been putting up,
we wanted to change the qualityof it and stuff like that.
So we're just figuring that out.
But yeah, well, you'll beseeing that come up here pretty
soon as well.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.