April 8, 2025 • 35 mins
Welcome to the When Grief Comes Home podcast. We're glad you're here. This podcast supports parents who are grieving a spouse, partner, or child while helping their children who are living through the loss of a parent or sibling. With personal grief stories and professional guidance, we offer parents practical tips for supporting their child who is grieving while caring for their own grief.
In this episode, Brad, Colleen, and Erin explore the complexities of grief within a family, offering wisdom on navigating the unique healing journeys of each member.
Losing a loved one disrupts the natural rhythm of family life, often shifting roles and routines. We examine the concept of homeostasis and how families struggle to adjust to this absence. We will learn how tuning into one’s body and addressing personal needs can help restore a sense of stability.
Supporting children through grief brings its own challenges, especially while managing your own sorrow. This episode emphasizes the importance of allowing children to express their emotions and take the lead in their healing process. We offer guidance on recognizing when additional support may be needed and reassure parents that mood fluctuations are a natural part of grief.
Please subscribe to the When Grief Comes Home podcast and leave us a review. The more stars, reviews, and downloads the show receives, the more parents and families in grief can find support.
Order the book When Grief Comes Home https://a.co/d/ijaiP5L
For more information on Jessica’s House or for additional resources, please go to jessicashouse.org
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Gary Shriver (00:00):
Hello and welcome to When Grief Comes Home, a
podcast dedicated to parentsliving through loss while
supporting their child.
Let's meet the team.
Erin Nelson (00:11):
I'm Erin Nelson, founding executive director at
Jessica's House.
Colleen Montague (00:15):
Hi, I'm Colleen Montague, program
director for Jessica's House anda licensed marriage and family
therapist.
Brad Quillen (00:21):
Hi, I'm Brad Quillen and I'm the host of When
Grief Comes Home.
Gary Shriver (00:25):
This podcast goes along with a book of the same
name.
The book When Grief Comes Homeis a gentle guide for parents
who are grieving a partner orchild, while helping their
children through the loss oftheir parent or sibling.
When Grief Comes Home is nowavailable at all major book
retailers.
(00:47):
Now let's go to the team asthey share grief resources and
coping skills, heartfelt storiesand insights to support parents
as they raise children who aregrieving.
Together, you'll find strengthas we learn to live with loss
and find ways to heal.
Brad Quillen (01:01):
Hello, hello, it's Brad from Jessica's House.
Today we're talking about thechanges in your family after a
death.
If we're honest, everythingchanges not just some, but all
things, from the wake up routineto the night routine to going
to school, from coming home fromschool, from breakfast to
dinner.
Everything changes.
Erin, I know we've talkedbefore about just some of those
(01:23):
things that changed after yourson died a few years back,
because knowing your son meantyou knew a jokester, but also a
kid that was a little feisty.
So even that was no longer apart of your house in the ways
that it was before.
Erin Nelson (01:37):
I think you'd get so used to family dynamics,
right, and personalities, andyou know, Carter was one of
those kids where he really knewhe was there and he always liked
to have the last word and hebrought a lot of energy.
We kind of said like he had alot of gusto and he was a person
that you really missed aroundthe table, just even family
(01:59):
dinners, there was always somesubject that we were talking
about and he was just had aquick way of thinking, so it was
really fun to just banteraround the table and I noticed
that, you know, when he was gonedinners were so quiet.
It was just such a differentdynamic in our family of just
(02:19):
the energy was really kind ofjust sucked out of the house.
And you know he also was amusician, so he played a lot of
music and the piano was alwaysgoing or he was playing his
ukulele or his guitar, and so itwas just such a quiet home
after he was gone and it wasjust so different.
(02:39):
And so, like you said, justeverything changed and I didn't
like it at all.
Brad Quillen (02:45):
Yeah, there's the emotion of grief, of missing,
and so people are somber.
But even if that's removed,there's still not the levity
that he brought or the I don'twant to say chatterbox, but he
had a lot of words.
Erin Nelson (02:58):
He had a lot of words, he laughed so easily and
he was just so fun.
But his energy was bright andhe just brought the room up when
he was in it and it was just sofun to be around him.
So it was just such a differentdynamic when he wasn't there.
Brad Quillen (03:17):
Right, even from just daily routines too.
And people don't realize, howmuch that changes.
Erin Nelson (03:22):
Yeah, and how much you just have just those morning
rituals and saying good morningor having him at dinner or just
saying good night and listeningfor him to come in the door and
just all of those pieces thatare just part of your everyday
that you never even think about.
Brad Quillen (03:40):
And for Carter, when you say hearing him come in
, you could hear that kid comingfrom a few blocks away because
he always had loud vehicles.
Erin Nelson (03:48):
Yeah, he liked his, his little revving little cars,
and so yeah, he just had, yeah,he didn't come in quietly ever.
I think he was born like that.
He kind of came with somenoises even as a very young
child, always making littlenoises like a car.
And yeah, he would, just hecame with all the little boy
(04:09):
noises.
Brad Quillen (04:10):
Right.
There's a lot of peoplelistening today that are in that
space and it's normal to notwant to do much of anything
because so much is missing andso much of life feels out of
balance.
Erin Nelson (04:24):
Yeah, it's so out of balance.
You just you take one personout of your everyday and it just
feels so off kilter and I thinkback on, just like a mobile.
We used to have these littlemobiles that we would hang over
a baby's crib and so and if youtook just one part off, it would
(04:45):
just all go to the side, andthat's kind of what it feels
like.
It's just like everything'sjust tipped over and you just
start having such a hard timefinding your rhythm and your way
.
Just, it just feels so clunky.
Nothing feels right or good.
Brad Quillen (05:01):
And almost forced.
Erin Nelson (05:03):
Yeah.
Brad Quillen (05:03):
Colleen, you hear a lot of this in group sitting
with adults and you and I'veheard that for years that
everything is off.
Colleen Montague (05:09):
To echo what Erin said just there's such an
impact to the relationshipdynamics within a family after
somebody dies, and because we'reall doing it at our own pace
and time, that changes it too.
We've talked about how somebodymay be really deep into their
grief one day and anotherperson's doing okay that day,
(05:31):
and vice versa, and so, and withthat healing at different
stages too, just in time andover time, depending on the type
of grief work that each memberof the family is doing or maybe
not doing, you know, that's moreof a long-term effect to the
family dynamics too and thehealth of your family overall.
Brad Quillen (05:54):
Colleen, I'm glad you brought up the early days
because, Erin, there's a,there's a few things that people
can do to help themselves inthose early days, and someone
might be just picking this up asthe first podcast they listen
to of When Grief Comes Home.
But what might you say to thosefolks that are in those early
days and everybody's feeling alittle different stressors?
Erin Nelson (06:12):
Yeah, it can be so stressful with all of the people
that are grieving sodifferently, right, and the
family.
And I know when we think aboutthe early days, we try to talk
about just meeting your physicaland emotional needs, being able
to make sure that each personis expressing, kind of, what
(06:35):
they need and what they'reexperiencing.
And then just those early days,you know, being able to take a
walk outside, making sure thatyou're drinking water, that you
are taking care of yourselfnutritionally and just kind of
those basics are reallyimportant to take care of
(06:56):
yourself in the early days.
And I think there's so muchpatient, there's like just being
patient with each other becauseyou will be feeling so
differently at different timesand each person has a unique
relationship with the person whodied and also a unique
personality, and so the loss andthe death, just like it,
(07:20):
impacts people in different waysand sometimes you kind of
grieve the way you live right,and so as you grieve, if you
naturally are more internal, youknow people might withdraw a
little bit, or if you'reexternal, you might want to like
really express in a moreforceful way and so just letting
(07:43):
people kind of be who they are.
Brad Quillen (07:46):
In those early days, you and I, over the years,
have spent a lot of time withpeople in their homes in those
first early days, and I'm goingto use a word that I don't know
if it's the right word, but itfeels like there's a tense in
the home.
I don't know if it's tense orif that emotion is just so on
the sleeve of everybody walkingaround that that it feels like
everybody gets set off by, bysomething that's said or a
(08:07):
memory but you just need to givegrace and extra grace in those
days.
Erin Nelson (08:13):
I just feel like it's, it's just raw, right.
I mean, it's almost like wedon't have any skin over our
nerves or something.
It's like we are, just it's,there's so much fragility and so
much vulnerability when you'reexperiencing that kind of pain
and the shock of not havingsomeone, and so being able to be
(08:34):
in that environment and havethe support you need is so
critical.
Brad Quillen (08:38):
And it might be different parts of the day.
As Colleen was saying,everybody's at a different place
.
That might feel more raw orvulnerable.
Colleen Montague (08:45):
Grief really is an imperfect process.
I mean, what part of life isn'treally right?
But you're not going to do itperfectly or even well at times.
You know everybody is under alot of strain and stress, and so
you may take the pain of griefout on each other, there's a lot
of weight on family membersjust because of additional
responsibilities now, that theymay be trying to hold and cover.
And you know, even we've seenwith kids, trying to be that
sibling that's gone, trying tobe the funny one or you know
bring in that part of thedynamic that's missing now.
We've seen that in kids tryingto do that, but really that's
not who they are.
Erin Nelson (09:34):
And to your point, Colleen, you know, even with
siblings, you know, we don'trealize how much we are
co-regulating each other in afamily and just being with each
other.
We're matching each other'snervous systems and we're
together and we're holding lifetogether.
We're holding theresponsibilities of life
together and family together,and so so much of experiencing a
(09:58):
loss.
It really just taking someoneout of the family dynamic it
really can compromise just ourfelt sense of safety.
And so being able to feel safeon a sensory level is so
critical in those early days andbeing able to whatever that
could be, it's like where do youneed to be?
And just asking yourself, whatdo I need right now, you know,
(10:20):
do I need a person with me?
Do I need to have the lightsdimmed?
Do I need a blanket and do Ineed to sit on the couch?
Do I need a nap?
Like we talk so much about what, just really listening to our
bodies and really finding outwhat we need, because we no
longer have that person to helpus find kind of like our felt
(10:42):
sense of like normal in someways, and that sense of safety,
yeah, and being anchored, yeah,just having of just the family
that we once had.
Brad Quillen (10:54):
Colleen, can I ask you what you mean by being
anchored?
Colleen Montague (10:57):
It's just building upon what Erin is
sharing of just thatco-regulation.
It's just really that anchoringEach person in the home serves
as an anchor in many differentways really, and so when that
person's gone you feel thatabsence.
Just as Erin said, with amobile, you know, imagine a
chair that's missing a leg.
(11:18):
Now you can sit on athree-legged chair.
It takes more work, it's notvery comfortable.
You have to find a new balancewithin your core, and so we talk
about homeostasis in a family.
But that's really, simply put,just the natural way or being or
feeling of a family, and whensomething's missing from that,
(11:40):
everybody's trying their verybest to regain that homeostasis.
They're trying so hard to findthat again.
That's when we pick updifferent little personality
traits.
We're trying to bring the humorback, or you know, we're trying
to bring maybe somebody was alittle bit more argumentative
and so we're trying to bringthat back in.
It's very common to not loveour homeostasis to be thrown off
(12:04):
.
Erin Nelson (12:04):
And like when you're talking about homeostasis
, you're talking about kind ofthat felt sense of kind of
safety and calm and just comingback to a place where you feel
like kind of your best versionof yourself in some way and
you're having kind of that flowand of just feeling that way.
So it really interrupts that.
Colleen Montague (12:23):
It does, and you know, sometimes homeostasis
it doesn't mean that everythingwas great before either, though.
It's just the natural rhythmand state of your family, and so
even some kind of negativetraits can be part of a
homeostasis that feels normal ina family.
Maybe the bickering between youknow, a mother and a father
(12:45):
it's not enjoyable, but it'spart of a rhythm, and so when
it's missing it feels weird,even though you wouldn't think
you'd be sad about that.
And so, to bring in somethingwe also talk about here at
Jessica's House, is that thereare dynamics and things that
maybe you won't miss within thatrelationship with the person
(13:07):
who's gone.
That is is still thrown off,though.
That homeostasis is stillthrown off, though, when that
person is missing, and maybeit's okay, but it still feels
differently.
Erin Nelson (13:17):
Yeah, and I'm thinking about just normal stuff
.
Like you know, we're here,we're hearing stories here at
Jessica's House about where dadalways put the child to bed,
right, and he always read thiscertain story, and or maybe they
watched a TV show togetherevery night before they went to
sleep, and so some of those justroutines that maybe even other
(13:38):
people in the family don't evenknow because it was only shared
between two people, or evensiblings that might carry, like
you talked about bickeringbetween parents, maybe they kind
of could look at each other andkind of have an understanding
that, oh, this is happeningright.
And when you have anunderstanding that, oh, this is
happening right, and when youhave someone who is missing, or
maybe you heard your parentstalking before bed and that's
(13:59):
how you fell asleep at night,whatever it might be, if a
parent is missing or a sibling'smissing, it just throws
everything off.
Brad Quillen (14:06):
And you might miss those things that drove you
crazy too.
Erin Nelson (14:09):
Right.
Brad Quillen (14:10):
Yeah, laundry on the floor, the crumbs on the
floor, the half drank soda canlike I've heard in group before.
Erin Nelson (14:16):
Yeah.
Brad Quillen (14:16):
I hear you guys talking about homeostasis and
that natural rhythm is off orthat balance.
So I'm going to ask you what Ihear in group all the time when
does that come back?
When do I get over this?
When do I get through this?
When am I normal?
Colleen Montague (14:30):
Again, I'd have to imagine, Erin, your
house never did come back towhat it was before, when you had
Carter.
So what is it now?
Erin Nelson (14:40):
Yeah, I think I love what one of our dads said
and he said I don't call it mynew normal, I call it my not
normal.
And so I think you settle in insome small way to a not normal
and being able to be with whatis.
It's not what you wanted it tobe, but it is what it is.
(15:00):
And so I don't think like, asyou said, brad, you know they'll
never be getting over.
You're carrying them with you.
I think over time you integrateyour losses and they become part
of like this sacred story thatyou have in your family.
But as you heal, you somehowjust continue to get through it.
(15:22):
I like the analogy of someonesaid once that it's like they
were standing in the ocean andthey were always standing in the
water and it was like kind oflike that ankle deep water and
they were just standing in itand it's like that was their
loss.
They were always in it, butonce in a while like a huge wave
would come and just take themdown right, and so that's kind
(15:44):
of like they're living in thatloss and they're missing that
person and they feel that kindof off kilter kind of feeling.
But then once, once in a whilesomething really hits them and
takes them down.
Colleen Montague (15:55):
Your family will find its new rhythm in time
.
It's just going to sounddifferent, and you'll never
forget.
You know what is really missing, though, too.
Brad Quillen (16:06):
And as we talk about new, normal or not normal,
there are some pieces and rolesthat we have to take on as
parents, and some of thosethings are roles we never
thought we would have.
And I'll give you an example.
I had a dad in group once, sayyears ago.
His wife had died and now hewas cooking for the family and
he said in group he goes, Ididn't realize there was more
(16:26):
spices outside of salt andpepper, right.
And so this guy was like askingthe other people in group will
you send me recipes?
Like I've never cooked before.
So now he's carrying this newweight of cooking for his kids
and he said, honestly, we'reeating a lot of takeout right
now, but he's like I'm trying toteach myself how to cook too.
So just that sweet innocenceand honesty.
But there's a lot of new thingsthat come into play and new
(16:48):
roles.
Moms that have said I don'tknow how to take care of my car,
where's a good place to go ingroup, like all these things
that are.
They're now realities andthere's a lot of people
listening right now that there'ssome new realities that they're
carrying on top of grief.
What are some of thosepractical things they can do to
just take some of those firststeps?
Colleen Montague (17:04):
Well, I agree with you, Brad.
There are the financial changes, short-term and long-term ones.
There's, you know, thepossibility of maybe, if a
parent has been able to, youknow work at home now maybe has
to return to the workforce forthat extra income.
You may have to move because offinancial reasons or for
(17:26):
support.
Move closer to family mayinvolve a switching of schools
for kiddos, May involve aswitching of school for your
children, and so I love what yousaid first, Brad, is who can
you go to that can support youin those areas?
You know where you are finding.
Wow, I'm not sure what I'mdoing here, and so reaching out
to your friends hey, do you knowa good mechanic?
(17:46):
Hey, you got any easy weeknightrecipes you can share with me?
Brad Quillen (17:51):
So true.
Colleen Montague (17:51):
Do you have the name of a good financial
advisor?
Yeah, I really need support inthis area.
So just knowing when you needto outsource, find support in
those areas that are justthey're not in your natural
wheelhouse.
Erin Nelson (18:02):
Yeah, and I just think also just that physical
missing of someone in the home,even the space that they took up
in the home, like this is theirchair at the dining room table,
this is where they sat in thecar, this is their room, this is
(18:22):
their side of the bed, this istheir closet, whatever it might
be.
Like, we can feel such likeit's like a sacred kind of thing
.
In so many ways.
It's like these, this was whatthey touched, right, and so like
you never forget that and justhow they were in your home and
in your family.
So I think there can be somesensitivity around possessions
(18:42):
and places that they were and sobeing patient with that.
You know there might bediscussions where kids might say
like, hey, can I have dad's hatand can I wear this or can I do
that?
And we're going to be talkingin future episodes about like
linking objects and some of theways that we stay connected to
the person who died.
(19:03):
But right after someone dies,you may even be feeling like if
an uncle comes over and you knowis like looking through
something you may just feel like, oh, I don't want anyone to
come into that person's room andlook through that.
It just feels really sacred tome.
So just having a lot ofunderstanding for each other in
that as well.
Brad Quillen (19:21):
Yeah, and move things around from the way they
were you know touching stuff andnot putting back where they
were left by the person who'sdied.
Erin Nelson (19:28):
And it could even be like don't wash their shirts,
don't wash the sheets, don'twash their pillowcase.
Like it, just like we want tosmell them, we want to feel them
, we want to like, hang on totheir essence.
Brad Quillen (19:40):
And there's a tension there and I've heard
this in group over the years ofit's time to move their things
out a closet or chair, becauseevery time I see it I just break
down and I don't want to justfall apart every time I see
these things, but then I don'thave the strength to move these
things, literally andfiguratively.
Erin Nelson (20:02):
Yeah, and how differently everybody will feel
about that.
So one person who feels like Idon't really seeing that is
really hard.
The other person is sayingseeing that gives me so much
comfort.
And so how do you come togetherin your family of even having a
different perspective aboutsome of those items?
And so it takes a lot ofcommunication, it takes a lot of
patience and just having all ofthese changes after a death.
Brad Quillen (20:24):
Is there any cautions you would give people
listening about don't move toofast?
Erin Nelson (20:29):
Yeah, you know we've talked about this a little
bit of just giving time andreally letting, I just think
like breathing sounds like kindof comes to my mind of just
letting things breathe a littlebit in the idea that this just
happened and everybody needs alittle bit of time.
So kind of talking together ina family about can we let things
(20:53):
just settle for a minute andnot make any big changes for
right now and, as time goes on,really helping to talk to your
kids about it, having familydiscussions about any changes
that you want to make orpossessions that somebody might
want to make their own, and itjust takes a lot of
communication.
Colleen Montague (21:14):
The word that you used, Erin, a few moments
ago, that really stood out to me, which I think can sum up this
whole first half, is just beingunderstanding, just
understanding, trying to beunderstanding of why the person
said what they just said to you,why they said it the way they
did, why they made that choice.
(21:36):
Just trying to be understandingthat you are all doing the very
best that you can right now andso coming at it with that lens,
I think, is a gift you can giveeach other right now.
Erin Nelson (21:45):
Yeah, that's a script to use, right.
Like, it's understandable thatyou feel that way.
You don't have to agree with it, but you can bring
understanding to it.
Brad Quillen (21:55):
And from time to time in group over the years, I
can remember somebody sayingwell, we have 30 days, or we
have 45 days and we have to beout, and that's just a financial
piece.
There's a reality of that andmy advice to you would be find
someone that can just be alistener as you process through
that, because those are reallyhard decisions and they're
legitimate.
You know things where you haveto move sometimes and that's
(22:16):
understandable, but just findsomeone that can be a listening
soundboard for you as youprocess through that.
All the support, the supportersthat are most helpful to you.
Yeah, those people that are in your corner, Erin
and Colleen.
Thanks for these few minutes ofjust walking through this, and
we're going to take a break andcome back and address some of
the relational changes thathappen after there's been a
(22:37):
death in the family.
Gary Shriver (22:39):
Jessica's House is a children's bereavement center
located in California's CentralValley since 2012.
We provide free peer supportfor children, teens, young
adults and their familiesgrieving a loss.
The When Grief Comes Homepodcast goes along with the book
of the same name.
The book When Grief Comes Homeis a gentle guide for parents
(23:01):
who are grieving a partner orchild while helping their
children through the loss oftheir parent or sibling.
When Grief Comes Home is nowavailable at all major book
retailers and if you needgrief-related support, please
visit jessicashouse.
org to download our freeresources and be sure to follow
Jessica's House on social media,and if you have any questions
(23:22):
or topics that you'd like us toexplore in a future episode,
just send us an email toinfo@jessicashouseorg.
Brad Quillen (23:31):
Well, welcome back from that brief break and we
want to continue with thechanges in your family since
there's been a death.
One of the changes that mostall of you are going to
recognize is the reality of painhas entered because someone's
missing.
Someone has died, and so Erin,I know we've talked about this
over the years, but how do wehelp our children even just
(23:51):
notice some of those changes?
Erin Nelson (23:59):
I know here at Jessica's House kids have told
us that you know, maybe theirmom would wake them up in the
morning and they're reallymissing her in that way.
Or maybe dad put him to bed andnow he's no longer here.
And so, talking to your childabout you know what changes
they're noticing, because maybeeven the changes that you're
noticing, because the personwho's missing, whether that's
(24:20):
your spouse or partner, yourchild, those roles that you're
noticing are no longer there.
Maybe it may be different fromyour child's perspective.
So being able to talk to themabout that and it's hard to hear
as a parent when your child isin pain, because there's really
nothing you can do to like iftheir mom is gone, that's that
(24:45):
reality, right.
And so you know you've beennurturing your child since their
birth and you've beenpreventing discomfort.
If their diaper was wet, you'regoing to change it as fast as
you can, right.
And if they're hungry, you'regoing to make sure that you're
feeding them and that theirtummy is full and that they're
warm and they have enough rest.
(25:06):
And now you're facing a timewhen they're in pain and our
instinct as a parent, I think,facing a time when they're in
pain, and our instinct as aparent, I think, is to just take
away that pain and this is atime to be with them in the pain
.
To reflect, kind of whatthey're saying.
It's like you really miss yourmom waking you up in the morning
to be with them, in that youcan still practically plan for
(25:27):
and help them know that, hey,I'll be the one waking you up
now in the morning and insteadof dad taking you to piano
lessons, it's going to be likeUncle John or whatever that may
be, but like to acknowledge justhow much that person is missed
and how, like we talked earlier,just life doesn't feel the same
(25:48):
anymore.
Everything's changed.
Brad Quillen (25:51):
Everything has changed and we said that in the
first segment and it's so hardto see that from our kids'
perspective because we justdon't see it through their eyes.
Erin Nelson (25:59):
Yeah, I think, and you know, before you had a death
in your family, it may havebeen a little easier to help
protect them a little bit.
And now here they are andthey're faced with this really
big loss.
Brad Quillen (26:14):
So let me ask you this personally, Tyler died, and
you have a five-year-old and athree-year-old and you're
grieving, you have your own painand then you have the reality
of watching your kids be in painand you can't fix this.
Erin Nelson (26:28):
Yeah, I mean, it's such a vulnerable feeling as a
parent to know that for thefirst time your child's
experiencing also a feeling ofnot being safe.
And you know that is hard whensomething really tragic happens
and you always have noticed thatthose kinds of things happen to
(26:51):
other people, not your family.
It kind of strips that feelingof safety away for everyone and
your kids feel thatvulnerability and I know we've
talked about that on the podcastand there's nothing we can do
to change that or fill that role.
They're missing and you have tosit in what is and grieve that.
Brad Quillen (27:14):
Yeah, I was going to say we would, we would often
say you just have to be withthem in it.
Colleen Montague (27:19):
Yeah, a dad recently talked with me and
asked you know what is too muchin terms of grief and going
there?
And you know he's, he's tryingto support his son right now and
and he's wondering you know howoften is too often to go to the
cemetery?
(27:39):
Like I think we're going alittle too often but I mean, am
I supposed to just go for it?
At what point is it too much?
And I've just encouraged him.
You know, let him lead.
He's discovering what works forhim and right now that feels
like going to the cemetery everyday and it may not be like that
forever, but he needs todiscover that for himself.
(28:02):
And so that's just a veryspecific example.
But to broaden it to the otherparents listening, let your
child take lead and teach you.
You know we're trying toprevent them from sitting in
that pain, as you spoke aboutErin, but really that's how we
do our healing right.
We've got to dip down into thatspace and we've got to let our
(28:24):
kids go there.
I'll say with a caveat you knowyour child best.
You will know if it gets to thepoint where it's too much and
you notice your kid has nowstruggling and really, really in
the depths and when there'schanges to their behavior, their
daily functioning.
That's the point when you knowthey need some more support.
(28:45):
But just a natural dip into alower mood for a bit and then
coming out of it and dippingback in, that is to be expected
in grief and that's okay foryour kid to do that.
Brad Quillen (28:58):
Colleen, I hear you talking about that, what is
too much?
And sometimes for parents, asI've sat in group it might make
you feel uncomfortable as aparent, and that's okay.
Colleen Montague (29:07):
Yep, because we're all doing this differently
and it's going to lookdifferent among family members,
and so I like that, Brad, justreally checking your own self
first, you know, is thisuncomfortable for me and what
you can do about that.
Erin Nelson (29:22):
You know, and I'm thinking about just kind of the
changes and being with every dayof someone missing, right,
Colleen, something that you'rereally good at when we're
together is you will besomewhere.
And I remember one time we werejust we went to the beach and
you were like, well, what didCarter think of the beach?
You know what did he thinkabout, you know what would he
(29:43):
think about the ocean right now?
And it's just every day.
You help me bring Carter intothe everyday and you know, we've
even, like, ordered coffee andwhen they say like, well, and
what's the name for your coffeeorder, you say Carter.
And so I just think about, like, with the changes, they're
missing.
But there might beopportunities and sometimes kids
(30:06):
will say I'm not sure exactlyhow to bring that person up, and
parents are saying the samething.
I think, in just reallypractical ways, we can look at
the sunset and wonder, oh, Iwonder what mom would think of
this sunset.
I mean, she loves sunsets.
What would she think about this?
Or you know, what would dadthink about this team winning
this game right now, because hewas such a fan?
(30:28):
And so, bringing them into youreveryday and just bringing it
up, if it's on your mind, it'sokay to speak it out loud, it's
okay to talk about the person injust a natural way and so, just
as a parent, being able to evenlead that by example and being
the one just whether that's likeI'll never forget the time when
(30:51):
you know your dad did this oryour brother did this or your
sister, and being that person sothat it becomes kind of a
natural part of your justeveryday banter, like your
everyday conversation.
Brad Quillen (31:04):
And it brings them into the space it does when
they're missing from.
Erin Nelson (31:07):
Yeah, and so, with all the changes, bringing them
in and just keeping them in isjust a good way to be.
Colleen Montague (31:14):
And, Erin, you taught me that it would be okay
to do that, you know.
So you taught me first that youwere okay with me bringing up
Carter.
You told me once that when youand your kids honor Tyler on his
heaven day, you always go tothe same restaurant and you
place the order under Tyler'sname.
And you said it because itfeels good to have somebody say
(31:35):
his name and they say order forTyler.
So then I thought, oh okay, I'dnever thought to do that, but
you told me it was okay in thatmoment and so I could start
doing that with Carter.
And that's what we are doing,is we're teaching others what
we're okay with, what feels goodfor us.
We're also taking cues fromothers about what they're okay
with.
And even if you bring up, youknow dad's name, and I wonder
(31:59):
what dad would have thoughtabout.
Your kiddo may not go therethat time, but you have given
them permission to go there inthe future when they want to,
when they feel comfortable withit.
Brad Quillen (32:10):
Yeah, and that makes me think that there's the
off the cuff times where someonegets brought into the
conversation or brought up.
But then as parents, we alsoneed to be checking in with our
kiddos with some sort ofregularity and I know some
people just hear me say thatwith some regularity and there's
, like Brad, there's nothingregular right now about my life
and I get that.
I get that.
But it also gives us a chancejust to check in on our kids and
(32:32):
have a few moments to just askhow they're seeing the changes,
how some of those emotions arerattling around in their little
bodies, and just give them achance to speak or be quiet.
Erin Nelson (32:44):
Or be quiet, or like what made you think of dad
today.
You know just, it could be sosimple.
Brad Quillen (32:50):
Yeah, where'd you see dad in your day?
Colleen Montague (32:53):
Like that.
Brad Quillen (32:54):
And as you guys were talking, I was sitting here
thinking about, you know, thoseregular check-ins and some of
the folks listening are going.
I don't have any idea what todo in one of those check-ins.
The beauty of Jessica's Houseis there's a number of ways to
find some ideas and differentactivities and ways to engage
your kiddos with grief and whatthey're feeling.
And, Colleen, would you mindsharing, as we wrap up this
(33:14):
podcast, one of those activityideas that we have out of the
book When Grief Comes Home?
Colleen Montague (33:19):
One of my favorite activities to do with
children, when I want to get aglimpse into their hearts, is to
ask them to draw a picture oftheir family for me.
And so with this activity, ifyou take a piece of paper and
fold it in half and invite yourchild on the left-hand side to
draw a picture of their familybefore the death and that could
(33:40):
include symbols or other littleimages and then, on the right
side, draw the now, what doesthe family look like now?
And I'll never forget when Iwas doing this with a child and
a picture of a football was inthe before but not in the after,
and to me that's such a smalllittle thing, football, but it
was a big impact for theirfamily because football was just
(34:02):
not the same anymore withoutdad, and so we don't realize the
changes that are weighing onkids.
And so this activity I reallylike.
And then, as your child drawsthis picture for you, you can be
the noticer and just sportscastit.
Hey, I notice the football'snot there in the after, in the
now.
Tell me about that.
(34:23):
How's that been for you?
Maybe you draw your own picturealongside your child and be
that model.
Show them what you're missing,what you've noticed.
Brad Quillen (34:32):
Thank you so much, Erin and Colleen, for being
with me today.
For those of you listening, besure to visit jessicashouse.
org for more grief resources andif you have any other topics or
questions you'd like us tocover on this podcast, we
welcome your email at info@jessicashouseorg.
Be sure to join us next timefor another episode of When
Grief Comes Home.
Gary Shriver (34:54):
Until then, we wish you well.
Jessica's House is a children'sbereavement center located in
California's Central Valleysince 2012.
We provide free peer supportfor children, teens, young
adults and their familiesgrieving a loss.
The When Grief Comes Homepodcast goes along with the book
of the same name.
The book When Grief Comes Homeis a gentle guide for parents
(35:21):
who are grieving a partner orchild while helping their
children through the loss oftheir parent or sibling.
When Grief Comes Home is nowavailable at all major book
retailers and if you needgrief-related support, please
visit jessicashouse.
org to download our freeresources and be sure to follow
Jessica's House on social media.
To follow Jessica's House onsocial media.
(35:41):
If you have any questions ortopics that you'd like us to
explore in a future episode,just send us an email to info@
jessicashouseorg.
Thank you for joining us andwe'll see you next time for When
Grief Comes Home.
Hello and welcome to When Grief Comes Home, a
podcast dedicated to parentsliving through loss while
supporting their child.
Let's meet the team.
Erin Nelson (00:11):
I'm Erin Nelson, founding executive director at
Jessica's House.
Colleen Montague (00:15):
Hi, I'm Colleen Montague, program
director for Jessica's House anda licensed marriage and family
therapist.
Brad Quillen (00:21):
Hi, I'm Brad Quillen and I'm the host of When
Grief Comes Home.
Gary Shriver (00:25):
This podcast goes along with a book of the same
name.
The book When Grief Comes Homeis a gentle guide for parents
who are grieving a partner orchild, while helping their
children through the loss oftheir parent or sibling.
When Grief Comes Home is nowavailable at all major book
retailers.
(00:47):
Now let's go to the team asthey share grief resources and
coping skills, heartfelt storiesand insights to support parents
as they raise children who aregrieving.
Together, you'll find strengthas we learn to live with loss
and find ways to heal.
Brad Quillen (01:01):
Hello, hello, it's Brad from Jessica's House.
Today we're talking about thechanges in your family after a
death.
If we're honest, everythingchanges not just some, but all
things, from the wake up routineto the night routine to going
to school, from coming home fromschool, from breakfast to
dinner.
Everything changes.
Erin, I know we've talkedbefore about just some of those
(01:23):
things that changed after yourson died a few years back,
because knowing your son meantyou knew a jokester, but also a
kid that was a little feisty.
So even that was no longer apart of your house in the ways
that it was before.
Erin Nelson (01:37):
I think you'd get so used to family dynamics,
right, and personalities, andyou know, Carter was one of
those kids where he really knewhe was there and he always liked
to have the last word and hebrought a lot of energy.
We kind of said like he had alot of gusto and he was a person
that you really missed aroundthe table, just even family
(01:59):
dinners, there was always somesubject that we were talking
about and he was just had aquick way of thinking, so it was
really fun to just banteraround the table and I noticed
that, you know, when he was gonedinners were so quiet.
It was just such a differentdynamic in our family of just
(02:19):
the energy was really kind ofjust sucked out of the house.
And you know he also was amusician, so he played a lot of
music and the piano was alwaysgoing or he was playing his
ukulele or his guitar, and so itwas just such a quiet home
after he was gone and it wasjust so different.
(02:39):
And so, like you said, justeverything changed and I didn't
like it at all.
Brad Quillen (02:45):
Yeah, there's the emotion of grief, of missing,
and so people are somber.
But even if that's removed,there's still not the levity
that he brought or the I don'twant to say chatterbox, but he
had a lot of words.
Erin Nelson (02:58):
He had a lot of words, he laughed so easily and
he was just so fun.
But his energy was bright andhe just brought the room up when
he was in it and it was just sofun to be around him.
So it was just such a differentdynamic when he wasn't there.
Brad Quillen (03:17):
Right, even from just daily routines too.
And people don't realize, howmuch that changes.
Erin Nelson (03:22):
Yeah, and how much you just have just those morning
rituals and saying good morningor having him at dinner or just
saying good night and listeningfor him to come in the door and
just all of those pieces thatare just part of your everyday
that you never even think about.
Brad Quillen (03:40):
And for Carter, when you say hearing him come in
, you could hear that kid comingfrom a few blocks away because
he always had loud vehicles.
Erin Nelson (03:48):
Yeah, he liked his, his little revving little cars,
and so yeah, he just had, yeah,he didn't come in quietly ever.
I think he was born like that.
He kind of came with somenoises even as a very young
child, always making littlenoises like a car.
And yeah, he would, just hecame with all the little boy
(04:09):
noises.
Brad Quillen (04:10):
Right.
There's a lot of peoplelistening today that are in that
space and it's normal to notwant to do much of anything
because so much is missing andso much of life feels out of
balance.
Erin Nelson (04:24):
Yeah, it's so out of balance.
You just you take one personout of your everyday and it just
feels so off kilter and I thinkback on, just like a mobile.
We used to have these littlemobiles that we would hang over
a baby's crib and so and if youtook just one part off, it would
(04:45):
just all go to the side, andthat's kind of what it feels
like.
It's just like everything'sjust tipped over and you just
start having such a hard timefinding your rhythm and your way
.
Just, it just feels so clunky.
Nothing feels right or good.
Brad Quillen (05:01):
And almost forced.
Erin Nelson (05:03):
Yeah.
Brad Quillen (05:03):
Colleen, you hear a lot of this in group sitting
with adults and you and I'veheard that for years that
everything is off.
Colleen Montague (05:09):
To echo what Erin said just there's such an
impact to the relationshipdynamics within a family after
somebody dies, and because we'reall doing it at our own pace
and time, that changes it too.
We've talked about how somebodymay be really deep into their
grief one day and anotherperson's doing okay that day,
(05:31):
and vice versa, and so, and withthat healing at different
stages too, just in time andover time, depending on the type
of grief work that each memberof the family is doing or maybe
not doing, you know, that's moreof a long-term effect to the
family dynamics too and thehealth of your family overall.
Brad Quillen (05:54):
Colleen, I'm glad you brought up the early days
because, Erin, there's a,there's a few things that people
can do to help themselves inthose early days, and someone
might be just picking this up asthe first podcast they listen
to of When Grief Comes Home.
But what might you say to thosefolks that are in those early
days and everybody's feeling alittle different stressors?
Erin Nelson (06:12):
Yeah, it can be so stressful with all of the people
that are grieving sodifferently, right, and the
family.
And I know when we think aboutthe early days, we try to talk
about just meeting your physicaland emotional needs, being able
to make sure that each personis expressing, kind of, what
(06:35):
they need and what they'reexperiencing.
And then just those early days,you know, being able to take a
walk outside, making sure thatyou're drinking water, that you
are taking care of yourselfnutritionally and just kind of
those basics are reallyimportant to take care of
(06:56):
yourself in the early days.
And I think there's so muchpatient, there's like just being
patient with each other becauseyou will be feeling so
differently at different timesand each person has a unique
relationship with the person whodied and also a unique
personality, and so the loss andthe death, just like it,
(07:20):
impacts people in different waysand sometimes you kind of
grieve the way you live right,and so as you grieve, if you
naturally are more internal, youknow people might withdraw a
little bit, or if you'reexternal, you might want to like
really express in a moreforceful way and so just letting
(07:43):
people kind of be who they are.
Brad Quillen (07:46):
In those early days, you and I, over the years,
have spent a lot of time withpeople in their homes in those
first early days, and I'm goingto use a word that I don't know
if it's the right word, but itfeels like there's a tense in
the home.
I don't know if it's tense orif that emotion is just so on
the sleeve of everybody walkingaround that that it feels like
everybody gets set off by, bysomething that's said or a
(08:07):
memory but you just need to givegrace and extra grace in those
days.
Erin Nelson (08:13):
I just feel like it's, it's just raw, right.
I mean, it's almost like wedon't have any skin over our
nerves or something.
It's like we are, just it's,there's so much fragility and so
much vulnerability when you'reexperiencing that kind of pain
and the shock of not havingsomeone, and so being able to be
(08:34):
in that environment and havethe support you need is so
critical.
Brad Quillen (08:38):
And it might be different parts of the day.
As Colleen was saying,everybody's at a different place
.
That might feel more raw orvulnerable.
Colleen Montague (08:45):
Grief really is an imperfect process.
I mean, what part of life isn'treally right?
But you're not going to do itperfectly or even well at times.
You know everybody is under alot of strain and stress, and so
you may take the pain of griefout on each other, there's a lot
of weight on family membersjust because of additional
responsibilities now, that theymay be trying to hold and cover.
And you know, even we've seenwith kids, trying to be that
sibling that's gone, trying tobe the funny one or you know
bring in that part of thedynamic that's missing now.
We've seen that in kids tryingto do that, but really that's
not who they are.
Erin Nelson (09:34):
And to your point, Colleen, you know, even with
siblings, you know, we don'trealize how much we are
co-regulating each other in afamily and just being with each
other.
We're matching each other'snervous systems and we're
together and we're holding lifetogether.
We're holding theresponsibilities of life
together and family together,and so so much of experiencing a
(09:58):
loss.
It really just taking someoneout of the family dynamic it
really can compromise just ourfelt sense of safety.
And so being able to feel safeon a sensory level is so
critical in those early days andbeing able to whatever that
could be, it's like where do youneed to be?
And just asking yourself, whatdo I need right now, you know,
(10:20):
do I need a person with me?
Do I need to have the lightsdimmed?
Do I need a blanket and do Ineed to sit on the couch?
Do I need a nap?
Like we talk so much about what, just really listening to our
bodies and really finding outwhat we need, because we no
longer have that person to helpus find kind of like our felt
(10:42):
sense of like normal in someways, and that sense of safety,
yeah, and being anchored, yeah,just having of just the family
that we once had.
Brad Quillen (10:54):
Colleen, can I ask you what you mean by being
anchored?
Colleen Montague (10:57):
It's just building upon what Erin is
sharing of just thatco-regulation.
It's just really that anchoringEach person in the home serves
as an anchor in many differentways really, and so when that
person's gone you feel thatabsence.
Just as Erin said, with amobile, you know, imagine a
chair that's missing a leg.
(11:18):
Now you can sit on athree-legged chair.
It takes more work, it's notvery comfortable.
You have to find a new balancewithin your core, and so we talk
about homeostasis in a family.
But that's really, simply put,just the natural way or being or
feeling of a family, and whensomething's missing from that,
(11:40):
everybody's trying their verybest to regain that homeostasis.
They're trying so hard to findthat again.
That's when we pick updifferent little personality
traits.
We're trying to bring the humorback, or you know, we're trying
to bring maybe somebody was alittle bit more argumentative
and so we're trying to bringthat back in.
It's very common to not loveour homeostasis to be thrown off
(12:04):
.
Erin Nelson (12:04):
And like when you're talking about homeostasis
, you're talking about kind ofthat felt sense of kind of
safety and calm and just comingback to a place where you feel
like kind of your best versionof yourself in some way and
you're having kind of that flowand of just feeling that way.
So it really interrupts that.
Colleen Montague (12:23):
It does, and you know, sometimes homeostasis
it doesn't mean that everythingwas great before either, though.
It's just the natural rhythmand state of your family, and so
even some kind of negativetraits can be part of a
homeostasis that feels normal ina family.
Maybe the bickering between youknow, a mother and a father
(12:45):
it's not enjoyable, but it'spart of a rhythm, and so when
it's missing it feels weird,even though you wouldn't think
you'd be sad about that.
And so, to bring in somethingwe also talk about here at
Jessica's House, is that thereare dynamics and things that
maybe you won't miss within thatrelationship with the person
(13:07):
who's gone.
That is is still thrown off,though.
That homeostasis is stillthrown off, though, when that
person is missing, and maybeit's okay, but it still feels
differently.
Erin Nelson (13:17):
Yeah, and I'm thinking about just normal stuff
.
Like you know, we're here,we're hearing stories here at
Jessica's House about where dadalways put the child to bed,
right, and he always read thiscertain story, and or maybe they
watched a TV show togetherevery night before they went to
sleep, and so some of those justroutines that maybe even other
(13:38):
people in the family don't evenknow because it was only shared
between two people, or evensiblings that might carry, like
you talked about bickeringbetween parents, maybe they kind
of could look at each other andkind of have an understanding
that, oh, this is happeningright.
And when you have anunderstanding that, oh, this is
happening right, and when youhave someone who is missing, or
maybe you heard your parentstalking before bed and that's
(13:59):
how you fell asleep at night,whatever it might be, if a
parent is missing or a sibling'smissing, it just throws
everything off.
Brad Quillen (14:06):
And you might miss those things that drove you
crazy too.
Erin Nelson (14:09):
Right.
Brad Quillen (14:10):
Yeah, laundry on the floor, the crumbs on the
floor, the half drank soda canlike I've heard in group before.
Erin Nelson (14:16):
Yeah.
Brad Quillen (14:16):
I hear you guys talking about homeostasis and
that natural rhythm is off orthat balance.
So I'm going to ask you what Ihear in group all the time when
does that come back?
When do I get over this?
When do I get through this?
When am I normal?
Colleen Montague (14:30):
Again, I'd have to imagine, Erin, your
house never did come back towhat it was before, when you had
Carter.
So what is it now?
Erin Nelson (14:40):
Yeah, I think I love what one of our dads said
and he said I don't call it mynew normal, I call it my not
normal.
And so I think you settle in insome small way to a not normal
and being able to be with whatis.
It's not what you wanted it tobe, but it is what it is.
(15:00):
And so I don't think like, asyou said, brad, you know they'll
never be getting over.
You're carrying them with you.
I think over time you integrateyour losses and they become part
of like this sacred story thatyou have in your family.
But as you heal, you somehowjust continue to get through it.
(15:22):
I like the analogy of someonesaid once that it's like they
were standing in the ocean andthey were always standing in the
water and it was like kind oflike that ankle deep water and
they were just standing in itand it's like that was their
loss.
They were always in it, butonce in a while like a huge wave
would come and just take themdown right, and so that's kind
(15:44):
of like they're living in thatloss and they're missing that
person and they feel that kindof off kilter kind of feeling.
But then once, once in a whilesomething really hits them and
takes them down.
Colleen Montague (15:55):
Your family will find its new rhythm in time
.
It's just going to sounddifferent, and you'll never
forget.
You know what is really missing, though, too.
Brad Quillen (16:06):
And as we talk about new, normal or not normal,
there are some pieces and rolesthat we have to take on as
parents, and some of thosethings are roles we never
thought we would have.
And I'll give you an example.
I had a dad in group once, sayyears ago.
His wife had died and now hewas cooking for the family and
he said in group he goes, Ididn't realize there was more
(16:26):
spices outside of salt andpepper, right.
And so this guy was like askingthe other people in group will
you send me recipes?
Like I've never cooked before.
So now he's carrying this newweight of cooking for his kids
and he said, honestly, we'reeating a lot of takeout right
now, but he's like I'm trying toteach myself how to cook too.
So just that sweet innocenceand honesty.
But there's a lot of new thingsthat come into play and new
(16:48):
roles.
Moms that have said I don'tknow how to take care of my car,
where's a good place to go ingroup, like all these things
that are.
They're now realities andthere's a lot of people
listening right now that there'ssome new realities that they're
carrying on top of grief.
What are some of thosepractical things they can do to
just take some of those firststeps?
Colleen Montague (17:04):
Well, I agree with you, Brad.
There are the financial changes, short-term and long-term ones.
There's, you know, thepossibility of maybe, if a
parent has been able to, youknow work at home now maybe has
to return to the workforce forthat extra income.
You may have to move because offinancial reasons or for
(17:26):
support.
Move closer to family mayinvolve a switching of schools
for kiddos, May involve aswitching of school for your
children, and so I love what yousaid first, Brad, is who can
you go to that can support youin those areas?
You know where you are finding.
Wow, I'm not sure what I'mdoing here, and so reaching out
to your friends hey, do you knowa good mechanic?
(17:46):
Hey, you got any easy weeknightrecipes you can share with me?
Brad Quillen (17:51):
So true.
Colleen Montague (17:51):
Do you have the name of a good financial
advisor?
Yeah, I really need support inthis area.
So just knowing when you needto outsource, find support in
those areas that are justthey're not in your natural
wheelhouse.
Erin Nelson (18:02):
Yeah, and I just think also just that physical
missing of someone in the home,even the space that they took up
in the home, like this is theirchair at the dining room table,
this is where they sat in thecar, this is their room, this is
(18:22):
their side of the bed, this istheir closet, whatever it might
be.
Like, we can feel such likeit's like a sacred kind of thing
.
In so many ways.
It's like these, this was whatthey touched, right, and so like
you never forget that and justhow they were in your home and
in your family.
So I think there can be somesensitivity around possessions
(18:42):
and places that they were and sobeing patient with that.
You know there might bediscussions where kids might say
like, hey, can I have dad's hatand can I wear this or can I do
that?
And we're going to be talkingin future episodes about like
linking objects and some of theways that we stay connected to
the person who died.
(19:03):
But right after someone dies,you may even be feeling like if
an uncle comes over and you knowis like looking through
something you may just feel like, oh, I don't want anyone to
come into that person's room andlook through that.
It just feels really sacred tome.
So just having a lot ofunderstanding for each other in
that as well.
Brad Quillen (19:21):
Yeah, and move things around from the way they
were you know touching stuff andnot putting back where they
were left by the person who'sdied.
Erin Nelson (19:28):
And it could even be like don't wash their shirts,
don't wash the sheets, don'twash their pillowcase.
Like it, just like we want tosmell them, we want to feel them
, we want to like, hang on totheir essence.
Brad Quillen (19:40):
And there's a tension there and I've heard
this in group over the years ofit's time to move their things
out a closet or chair, becauseevery time I see it I just break
down and I don't want to justfall apart every time I see
these things, but then I don'thave the strength to move these
things, literally andfiguratively.
Erin Nelson (20:02):
Yeah, and how differently everybody will feel
about that.
So one person who feels like Idon't really seeing that is
really hard.
The other person is sayingseeing that gives me so much
comfort.
And so how do you come togetherin your family of even having a
different perspective aboutsome of those items?
And so it takes a lot ofcommunication, it takes a lot of
patience and just having all ofthese changes after a death.
Brad Quillen (20:24):
Is there any cautions you would give people
listening about don't move toofast?
Erin Nelson (20:29):
Yeah, you know we've talked about this a little
bit of just giving time andreally letting, I just think
like breathing sounds like kindof comes to my mind of just
letting things breathe a littlebit in the idea that this just
happened and everybody needs alittle bit of time.
So kind of talking together ina family about can we let things
(20:53):
just settle for a minute andnot make any big changes for
right now and, as time goes on,really helping to talk to your
kids about it, having familydiscussions about any changes
that you want to make orpossessions that somebody might
want to make their own, and itjust takes a lot of
communication.
Colleen Montague (21:14):
The word that you used, Erin, a few moments
ago, that really stood out to me, which I think can sum up this
whole first half, is just beingunderstanding, just
understanding, trying to beunderstanding of why the person
said what they just said to you,why they said it the way they
did, why they made that choice.
(21:36):
Just trying to be understandingthat you are all doing the very
best that you can right now andso coming at it with that lens,
I think, is a gift you can giveeach other right now.
Erin Nelson (21:45):
Yeah, that's a script to use, right.
Like, it's understandable thatyou feel that way.
You don't have to agree with it, but you can bring
understanding to it.
Brad Quillen (21:55):
And from time to time in group over the years, I
can remember somebody sayingwell, we have 30 days, or we
have 45 days and we have to beout, and that's just a financial
piece.
There's a reality of that andmy advice to you would be find
someone that can just be alistener as you process through
that, because those are reallyhard decisions and they're
legitimate.
You know things where you haveto move sometimes and that's
(22:16):
understandable, but just findsomeone that can be a listening
soundboard for you as youprocess through that.
All the support, the supportersthat are most helpful to you.
Yeah, those people that are in your corner, Erin
and Colleen.
Thanks for these few minutes ofjust walking through this, and
we're going to take a break andcome back and address some of
the relational changes thathappen after there's been a
(22:37):
death in the family.
Gary Shriver (22:39):
Jessica's House is a children's bereavement center
located in California's CentralValley since 2012.
We provide free peer supportfor children, teens, young
adults and their familiesgrieving a loss.
The When Grief Comes Homepodcast goes along with the book
of the same name.
The book When Grief Comes Homeis a gentle guide for parents
(23:01):
who are grieving a partner orchild while helping their
children through the loss oftheir parent or sibling.
When Grief Comes Home is nowavailable at all major book
retailers and if you needgrief-related support, please
visit jessicashouse.
org to download our freeresources and be sure to follow
Jessica's House on social media,and if you have any questions
(23:22):
or topics that you'd like us toexplore in a future episode,
just send us an email toinfo@jessicashouseorg.
Brad Quillen (23:31):
Well, welcome back from that brief break and we
want to continue with thechanges in your family since
there's been a death.
One of the changes that mostall of you are going to
recognize is the reality of painhas entered because someone's
missing.
Someone has died, and so Erin,I know we've talked about this
over the years, but how do wehelp our children even just
(23:51):
notice some of those changes?
Erin Nelson (23:59):
I know here at Jessica's House kids have told
us that you know, maybe theirmom would wake them up in the
morning and they're reallymissing her in that way.
Or maybe dad put him to bed andnow he's no longer here.
And so, talking to your childabout you know what changes
they're noticing, because maybeeven the changes that you're
noticing, because the personwho's missing, whether that's
(24:20):
your spouse or partner, yourchild, those roles that you're
noticing are no longer there.
Maybe it may be different fromyour child's perspective.
So being able to talk to themabout that and it's hard to hear
as a parent when your child isin pain, because there's really
nothing you can do to like iftheir mom is gone, that's that
(24:45):
reality, right.
And so you know you've beennurturing your child since their
birth and you've beenpreventing discomfort.
If their diaper was wet, you'regoing to change it as fast as
you can, right.
And if they're hungry, you'regoing to make sure that you're
feeding them and that theirtummy is full and that they're
warm and they have enough rest.
(25:06):
And now you're facing a timewhen they're in pain and our
instinct as a parent, I think,facing a time when they're in
pain, and our instinct as aparent, I think, is to just take
away that pain and this is atime to be with them in the pain
.
To reflect, kind of whatthey're saying.
It's like you really miss yourmom waking you up in the morning
to be with them, in that youcan still practically plan for
(25:27):
and help them know that, hey,I'll be the one waking you up
now in the morning and insteadof dad taking you to piano
lessons, it's going to be likeUncle John or whatever that may
be, but like to acknowledge justhow much that person is missed
and how, like we talked earlier,just life doesn't feel the same
(25:48):
anymore.
Everything's changed.
Brad Quillen (25:51):
Everything has changed and we said that in the
first segment and it's so hardto see that from our kids'
perspective because we justdon't see it through their eyes.
Erin Nelson (25:59):
Yeah, I think, and you know, before you had a death
in your family, it may havebeen a little easier to help
protect them a little bit.
And now here they are andthey're faced with this really
big loss.
Brad Quillen (26:14):
So let me ask you this personally, Tyler died, and
you have a five-year-old and athree-year-old and you're
grieving, you have your own painand then you have the reality
of watching your kids be in painand you can't fix this.
Erin Nelson (26:28):
Yeah, I mean, it's such a vulnerable feeling as a
parent to know that for thefirst time your child's
experiencing also a feeling ofnot being safe.
And you know that is hard whensomething really tragic happens
and you always have noticed thatthose kinds of things happen to
(26:51):
other people, not your family.
It kind of strips that feelingof safety away for everyone and
your kids feel thatvulnerability and I know we've
talked about that on the podcastand there's nothing we can do
to change that or fill that role.
They're missing and you have tosit in what is and grieve that.
Brad Quillen (27:14):
Yeah, I was going to say we would, we would often
say you just have to be withthem in it.
Colleen Montague (27:19):
Yeah, a dad recently talked with me and
asked you know what is too muchin terms of grief and going
there?
And you know he's, he's tryingto support his son right now and
and he's wondering you know howoften is too often to go to the
cemetery?
(27:39):
Like I think we're going alittle too often but I mean, am
I supposed to just go for it?
At what point is it too much?
And I've just encouraged him.
You know, let him lead.
He's discovering what works forhim and right now that feels
like going to the cemetery everyday and it may not be like that
forever, but he needs todiscover that for himself.
(28:02):
And so that's just a veryspecific example.
But to broaden it to the otherparents listening, let your
child take lead and teach you.
You know we're trying toprevent them from sitting in
that pain, as you spoke aboutErin, but really that's how we
do our healing right.
We've got to dip down into thatspace and we've got to let our
(28:24):
kids go there.
I'll say with a caveat you knowyour child best.
You will know if it gets to thepoint where it's too much and
you notice your kid has nowstruggling and really, really in
the depths and when there'schanges to their behavior, their
daily functioning.
That's the point when you knowthey need some more support.
(28:45):
But just a natural dip into alower mood for a bit and then
coming out of it and dippingback in, that is to be expected
in grief and that's okay foryour kid to do that.
Brad Quillen (28:58):
Colleen, I hear you talking about that, what is
too much?
And sometimes for parents, asI've sat in group it might make
you feel uncomfortable as aparent, and that's okay.
Colleen Montague (29:07):
Yep, because we're all doing this differently
and it's going to lookdifferent among family members,
and so I like that, Brad, justreally checking your own self
first, you know, is thisuncomfortable for me and what
you can do about that.
Erin Nelson (29:22):
You know, and I'm thinking about just kind of the
changes and being with every dayof someone missing, right,
Colleen, something that you'rereally good at when we're
together is you will besomewhere.
And I remember one time we werejust we went to the beach and
you were like, well, what didCarter think of the beach?
You know what did he thinkabout, you know what would he
(29:43):
think about the ocean right now?
And it's just every day.
You help me bring Carter intothe everyday and you know, we've
even, like, ordered coffee andwhen they say like, well, and
what's the name for your coffeeorder, you say Carter.
And so I just think about, like, with the changes, they're
missing.
But there might beopportunities and sometimes kids
(30:06):
will say I'm not sure exactlyhow to bring that person up, and
parents are saying the samething.
I think, in just reallypractical ways, we can look at
the sunset and wonder, oh, Iwonder what mom would think of
this sunset.
I mean, she loves sunsets.
What would she think about this?
Or you know, what would dadthink about this team winning
this game right now, because hewas such a fan?
(30:28):
And so, bringing them into youreveryday and just bringing it
up, if it's on your mind, it'sokay to speak it out loud, it's
okay to talk about the person injust a natural way and so, just
as a parent, being able to evenlead that by example and being
the one just whether that's likeI'll never forget the time when
(30:51):
you know your dad did this oryour brother did this or your
sister, and being that person sothat it becomes kind of a
natural part of your justeveryday banter, like your
everyday conversation.
Brad Quillen (31:04):
And it brings them into the space it does when
they're missing from.
Erin Nelson (31:07):
Yeah, and so, with all the changes, bringing them
in and just keeping them in isjust a good way to be.
Colleen Montague (31:14):
And, Erin, you taught me that it would be okay
to do that, you know.
So you taught me first that youwere okay with me bringing up
Carter.
You told me once that when youand your kids honor Tyler on his
heaven day, you always go tothe same restaurant and you
place the order under Tyler'sname.
And you said it because itfeels good to have somebody say
(31:35):
his name and they say order forTyler.
So then I thought, oh okay, I'dnever thought to do that, but
you told me it was okay in thatmoment and so I could start
doing that with Carter.
And that's what we are doing,is we're teaching others what
we're okay with, what feels goodfor us.
We're also taking cues fromothers about what they're okay
with.
And even if you bring up, youknow dad's name, and I wonder
(31:59):
what dad would have thoughtabout.
Your kiddo may not go therethat time, but you have given
them permission to go there inthe future when they want to,
when they feel comfortable withit.
Brad Quillen (32:10):
Yeah, and that makes me think that there's the
off the cuff times where someonegets brought into the
conversation or brought up.
But then as parents, we alsoneed to be checking in with our
kiddos with some sort ofregularity and I know some
people just hear me say thatwith some regularity and there's
, like Brad, there's nothingregular right now about my life
and I get that.
I get that.
But it also gives us a chancejust to check in on our kids and
(32:32):
have a few moments to just askhow they're seeing the changes,
how some of those emotions arerattling around in their little
bodies, and just give them achance to speak or be quiet.
Erin Nelson (32:44):
Or be quiet, or like what made you think of dad
today.
You know just, it could be sosimple.
Brad Quillen (32:50):
Yeah, where'd you see dad in your day?
Colleen Montague (32:53):
Like that.
Brad Quillen (32:54):
And as you guys were talking, I was sitting here
thinking about, you know, thoseregular check-ins and some of
the folks listening are going.
I don't have any idea what todo in one of those check-ins.
The beauty of Jessica's Houseis there's a number of ways to
find some ideas and differentactivities and ways to engage
your kiddos with grief and whatthey're feeling.
And, Colleen, would you mindsharing, as we wrap up this
(33:14):
podcast, one of those activityideas that we have out of the
book When Grief Comes Home?
Colleen Montague (33:19):
One of my favorite activities to do with
children, when I want to get aglimpse into their hearts, is to
ask them to draw a picture oftheir family for me.
And so with this activity, ifyou take a piece of paper and
fold it in half and invite yourchild on the left-hand side to
draw a picture of their familybefore the death and that could
(33:40):
include symbols or other littleimages and then, on the right
side, draw the now, what doesthe family look like now?
And I'll never forget when Iwas doing this with a child and
a picture of a football was inthe before but not in the after,
and to me that's such a smalllittle thing, football, but it
was a big impact for theirfamily because football was just
(34:02):
not the same anymore withoutdad, and so we don't realize the
changes that are weighing onkids.
And so this activity I reallylike.
And then, as your child drawsthis picture for you, you can be
the noticer and just sportscastit.
Hey, I notice the football'snot there in the after, in the
now.
Tell me about that.
(34:23):
How's that been for you?
Maybe you draw your own picturealongside your child and be
that model.
Show them what you're missing,what you've noticed.
Brad Quillen (34:32):
Thank you so much, Erin and Colleen, for being
with me today.
For those of you listening, besure to visit jessicashouse.
org for more grief resources andif you have any other topics or
questions you'd like us tocover on this podcast, we
welcome your email at info@jessicashouseorg.
Be sure to join us next timefor another episode of When
Grief Comes Home.
Gary Shriver (34:54):
Until then, we wish you well.
Jessica's House is a children'sbereavement center located in
California's Central Valleysince 2012.
We provide free peer supportfor children, teens, young
adults and their familiesgrieving a loss.
The When Grief Comes Homepodcast goes along with the book
of the same name.
The book When Grief Comes Homeis a gentle guide for parents
(35:21):
who are grieving a partner orchild while helping their
children through the loss oftheir parent or sibling.
When Grief Comes Home is nowavailable at all major book
retailers and if you needgrief-related support, please
visit jessicashouse.
org to download our freeresources and be sure to follow
Jessica's House on social media.
To follow Jessica's House onsocial media.
(35:41):
If you have any questions ortopics that you'd like us to
explore in a future episode,just send us an email to info@
jessicashouseorg.
Thank you for joining us andwe'll see you next time for When
Grief Comes Home.
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