January 28, 2025 • 43 mins
Welcome to the When Grief Comes Home podcast. We're glad you're here. This podcast supports parents who are grieving a spouse, partner, or child while helping their children who are living through the loss of a parent or sibling. With personal grief stories and professional guidance, we offer parents practical tips for supporting their child who is grieving while caring for their own grief.
In this episode, we discuss how each person in a family grieves differently and offer practical wisdom for parents as they balance self-care and the needs of their children.
This episode offers techniques for honoring each person in your family's needs as they mourn. It offers ideas for maintaining consistency and providing sensory safety to help ease your child's worries. We discuss the value of routines, simple comforts, and honest conversations. With methods for deepening parent-child communication using reflective techniques and prompts like "I wonder" and "I hope” we help parents facilitate expression with their child.
Please subscribe to the When Grief Comes Home podcast and leave us a review. The more stars, reviews, and downloads the show receives, the more parents and families in grief can find support.
Pre-order the book When Grief Comes Home https://a.co/d/ijaiP5L
For more information on Jessica’s House or for additional resources, please go to jessicashouse.org
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Gary Shriver (00:00):
Hello and welcome to when Grief Comes Home, a
podcast dedicated to parentsliving through loss while
supporting their child.
Let's meet the team.
Erin Nelson (00:11):
I'm Erin Nelson, founding executive director at
Jessica's House.
Colleen Montague (00:15):
Hi, I'm Colleen Montague, program
director for Jessica's House anda licensed marriage and family
therapist.
Brad Quillen (00:21):
Hi, I'm Brad Quillen and I'm the host of when
Grief Comes Home.
Gary Shriver (00:25):
Now through this podcast, they'll share grief
resources and coping skills,heartfelt stories and insights
to support parents as they raisechildren who are grieving
Together.
You'll find strength as welearn to live with loss and find
ways to heal.
Brad Quillen (00:43):
Well, hello, hello .
It's Brad from Jessica's House,and today we're talking about
ways to support yourself as yousupport others.
We want to remind you thatthere are no right or wrong
approaches to grief.
Today we're going to talk aboutways to get through grief
together, and right now Erin'sgoing to share a bit about her
story when her and her husbandlost Carter and how they grieved
(01:05):
differently.
Erin, would you take a fewmoments and just share with us
what that looked like for youguys?
Erin Nelson (01:11):
Thanks, Brad.
Yes, when in 2019, our son,Carter, died as a result of a
car accident, and you know, justas in any relationship that we
have, we're very different,right, and just as we're in a
family and in a marriage, we'rejust different people.
(01:32):
We were different before Carterdied and the way we proceeded
after he died, we just haddifferent approaches to our
grief and, of course, likeyou're never prepared for that
right and you never know justhow you'll both react but from
the very beginning, I noticedthat I needed a lot of time by
(01:56):
myself.
I needed a lot of time just inCarter's room.
I just needed time just toprocess, like everything that
happened.
And Brian was and is so muchmore extroverted than I am.
He really enjoys his peoplearound him and he would stay up
(02:17):
late at night and just kind ofsit by the fire outside and talk
to his friends and and really,really helped him.
And I think, just being awarethat we have to give each other
space to be themselves whenthey're grieving and just to
know that we have to fullyaccept that.
(02:37):
And that's always kind of hardalso because we're always
cycling kind of in and out ofkind of the waves of grief.
One person may be in the middleof something really difficult
that they're processing and kindof a wave of grief that's very
intense, while another person iskind of in that recession and
(03:03):
just kind of just got throughsomething really hard and maybe
they're feeling a little bit ofrelief.
So we're always grievingdifferently, naturally in our
personality, but also we're atdifferent places as well.
Brad Quillen (03:11):
And you and Brian are very different.
Like truly and I, I would saythat I hear people in groups
with some of the adults that Iwork with, that they feel
they're not doing it the rightway because so many people say,
oh, you need to try this or youneed to do this, and it's so
different for each person andthere's no right or wrong and
sometimes you find what worksfor you on the fifth or sixth
(03:34):
thing that you try.
Erin Nelson (03:36):
Yes, and there's no right or wrong.
And, as you mentioned groups, Ithink that's you know, when we
even talk, the very first timesomeone comes to Jessica's house
just seeing, like you know, howmany of you have had just
received a lot of advice, andthey know that this is an
advice-free zone and I thinkkeeping that safe space, even in
(03:57):
a family, is important.
Brad Quillen (04:00):
Yeah, because you had three kiddos that lost a
sibling, and so you got thedynamic of you and your husband,
but then kiddos.
Erin Nelson (04:09):
Right, yeah, and we're all different in that, and
each person in the family has adifferent relationship with a
person who died.
We all had a differentexperience of learning about the
death and how we related to thedeath, and all of that comes
into play when you grievesomeone, and so, even inside of
(04:33):
a family, your relationship, theway the person died, your own
personality, all of that playsinto just kind of what those
family dynamics are.
Brad Quillen (04:42):
Yeah, and I'm glad you mentioned the introvert,
extrovert piece because wesometimes notice people get
really quiet and people go, y ouknow is there something wrong
with that?
Erin Nelson (04:55):
Right.
Brad Quillen (04:56):
Or they get a little more relationship driven,
you know, and it's it'sdifferent than before the death.
And so people get nervous orwonder are they okay?
Because they are so quiet rightnow.
Erin Nelson (05:08):
Yes, and even just emotionality, like just the
emotions of grief, and how weeven process, whether we process
externally.
I always like to say like forme, like cars are for crying and
screaming, you know but, I Imay not necessarily do that in
the group and in my home, andalso I'm not a big crier and so,
like, sometimes people can feelguilty when they're not crying
(05:31):
as much, and kids especiallyhave expressed that.
And so if just being able toknow, even if you notice that
one child is being moreexpressive and one child isn't,
sometimes you can wonder if thechild who isn't expressing is
not processing their grief.
But maybe they're just doing itdifferently.
Brad Quillen (05:54):
Yeah, there's an internal piece or they're doing
it through different means.
It could be art, it could bedifferent conversations with
different people and it's justnot you.
But we do get nervous becausethey got quiet.
It's fascinating, you broughtthe car piece up, had a mom in
group years ago that used todrive around the block and sing
(06:14):
heavy metal music just to scream.
Erin Nelson (06:17):
Yeah.
Brad Quillen (06:18):
And that was her thing.
She found that and so she woulddrive around the block and just
scream you know, Guns N' Rosesor Aerosmith, you know I can
remember her saying those twobands, but that was kind of her
thing is, when she was at herlimits she just said I would get
in my car and drive the blockand scream music.
You know, roll the windows upand just scream, scream, scream.
Erin Nelson (06:37):
Just that releasing .
And you know we talk a lotabout just grief as energy in
your body and sometimes you canreally sense that and I really
like knowing that she wouldsense that and know when is it
time to get into my car andrelease that energy of grief and
let it just keep flowing.
And she found a way to do that.
Brad Quillen (06:58):
Yeah, can you speak to the listeners for a
moment of that buildup?
Because, we've heard that andI've heard that a lot in groups
that I can feel it coming on orthe I can feel the amount of the
energy coming up.
Erin Nelson (07:13):
It's so interesting how we hear that universally
that you know people describegrief so much as waves or
something like that.
And just kind of that building,peaking and receding and just
how you can feel it coming on.
And then there's that you know,think about the ocean, right,
(07:34):
and you think about the energyinside of it and how you know
that is that energy.
It's the same in our body, it'sthe same with grief, it's like
a building up and you can feelthat and I know we had one child
who just said that like I feltit just building up and it was
like a big, wet, heavy spongeand then I just squeezed it out
and I felt lighter and so beingable to just feel that and
(08:00):
express it as it comes, like,however, you're feeling that
buildup, letting it flow throughyou in some way, like she did,
like that mom did, just beingable to scream it out.
Brad Quillen (08:11):
And and I don't think we talk about this enough
of giving ourself grace whenwe're in grief.
Erin Nelson (08:17):
What does that mean , Brad?
Brad Quillen (08:19):
So I for me, I, as I sit with families, sometimes
I'll often catch myself sayingit's it's okay to not have it
all together right now.
In the midst of that and whatyou're going through.
It's a mystery right?
Yeah, you never knew you'd react this way
because you lost someone youloved and you haven't
(08:39):
experienced that.
So how would you have it alltogether?
Erin Nelson (08:42):
There's so many unknowns that you don't
encounter until you're there.
Brad Quillen (08:48):
And we don't know how we'll react until we're in
that moment.
Erin Nelson (08:51):
You do not know, yeah, and sometimes you're
grieving something new, like apart of that person that you
didn't even realize that youneeded to grieve, and so those
emerge over time and you justgrieve them in bits and pieces,
and so I think there's so muchunknown in that.
Brad Quillen (09:11):
And future episodes.
I know we're going to get tothis but as time goes there's a
lot of the first years and thosethings that we don't even know
we're going to react to.
That are months down the roadand I don't say that to make
anyone nervous.
That's listening.
But there are those things thatdo continue to come and those
emotions that it's right back inthe forefront of your mind of
(09:34):
boy, I didn't see this comingtoday.
Erin Nelson (09:36):
Yeah, and you know that can be a really hard part
about grief is that you can findsome relief as those waves
recede and then just be inanother set of waves again,
right, and they just come overyou.
You know, and I feel like Iheard someone say once it was
like kind of they're standingalways kind of ankle deep in the
(09:57):
water and it's like that griefis right there, right?
But then those waves are comingin and but yeah, sometimes you
know they're bigger than others.
Brad Quillen (10:07):
Yeah, and I just tell, I just tell adults in
groups that when we have thosebig emotions it's just a
reminder of who we loved a lot.
Erin Nelson (10:16):
It's, it is really the energy of love and you know,
knowing that it's, it's that'swhy we grieve, is because we
love, and we're wanting to putthat love, that adoration, that
energy of love into someone.
But it's returning back to uswith no place to land, right?
And it's like it's all comingback because and it's those
(10:39):
memories right, and it's likewe're reminded of how much we
long for them.
Brad Quillen (10:45):
It's almost like it's a void.
Erin Nelson (10:47):
It is a void.
Brad Quillen (10:48):
Yeah, hey, Colleen , with what you've heard Erin
and I just talking about for afew minutes.
You and I have been doing adultgroups for quite some time and
we hear in some of the thingsErin and I were just talking
about, but the natural realitythat grief just kind of slows us
down, it's a natural way thatour body slows down is in grief.
(11:08):
What would you say to somepeople that are feeling, that,
that are listening right now?
Colleen Montague (11:13):
That conversation of lethargy does
come up a lot, and just howexhausting grief is on the body,
on the mind, the soul.
Cognitively, you're not goingto be functioning at the
capacity you once did either, soyour thoughts might feel very
fuzzy or muddled.
Brad Quillen (11:32):
Sluggish is the word that I'll hear often in
group, sluggish.
Colleen Montague (11:36):
Yes, that's one of the reasons why it's
advised not to make bigdecisions right away, or even in
that first year, and so,keeping that in mind, with how
you're doing, you add to thatcaring for your children, which
adds to the heaviness of whatyou're holding, and so not only
(12:00):
are you still their parent, butnow you're grieving and helping
them with their grief too.
Something that might feel verybackwards to parents is the idea
that you really do need to takecare of yourself first, before
your kiddos, and I think in oursociety we think that we must
just always be caring for others.
(12:21):
Especially us moms have thatthought.
But really, in truth, there'san analogy that's used in
regards to when you're on aplane.
The flight attendant will sayif there's a loss of oxygen in
the cabin, the masks will comedown to give you a supply of
oxygen, but you must put yourson first and then put it on any
(12:46):
younger children you're with,because if you go without oxygen
first, you won't even beconscious to put the mask on
your kid, and so we must tend toourselves first in order to
have the ability or the capacityto take care of our kids next,
and so that might seem backwards, but really it is the natural
(13:08):
order.
Brad Quillen (13:09):
Colleen, when you were talking it made me think to
a mom that came to group manyyears ago.
Just the daily routines are sohard and this mom came into
group, sits down and abouthalfway group through the group
she looks down and she goes, Ihave two different shoes on,
like at baseline.
She's like I can't even put thesame shoes on to go to work.
(13:31):
And she'd gone to work all dayand then came to group with her
family or kiddos.
And that's the reality of justsome of those remedial, normal
daily tasks are interrupted bygrief.
Colleen Montague (13:42):
Yes, and it's okay.
Absolutely the fact that shecould even go to work and then
come and bring her family togroup.
I mean that's already a win,and so she had different shoes
on.
Okay, it's okay.
Brad Quillen (13:56):
Right.
So, Colleen, with those dailyroutines, even dinner becomes a
chore, and I've heard a lot offamilies and moms and dads and
grandparents or aunts and unclesthat now have custody are
trying to just get dinner on thetable, and it's like we're
doing fast food for a fourthnight in a row.
But that's survival right now.
And so what would you say tothose those folks that are
(14:19):
listening?
That that's where they're at.
Colleen Montague (14:21):
Again, I would just say it's about those small
wins and redefining what thatlooks like to you now.
You're a different person,right, your family has changed
and so there's going to be someredefining you're going to do,
and that's going to keepevolving over time.
But in this season, right now,okay, so what?
So you're going to reheatchicken nuggets again, right,
(14:44):
it's okay, you're feeding yourfamily.
Brad Quillen (14:47):
Things are different.
Colleen Montague (14:47):
Yeah.
Brad Quillen (14:50):
And Erin when you went through that.
What was that like for you athome when Carter died, because
you kind of faced that samething of we've got to do dinner
and things still have to getdone.
But so much had changed.
Erin Nelson (15:07):
Yeah, I just think, you know, colleen, when you
talked about the lethargy ofgrief, and like, truly I've
experienced just that feeling ofheaviness.
You know that feeling ofheaviness in my body.
And again, just to introducelike how different Brian and I
are, he had this energy of griefthat needed to get out of his
body.
So we always took walks everymorning, and so he would get up
(15:30):
and go take his daily walk and Ireally could not move.
And so he would get up and gotake his daily walk and I really
could not move.
And so I just needed to bethere, just like I needed to sit
on the couch, I just had tolike even like anything
constricting on my body, like awaistband like I couldn't wear,
I had to just wear very looseclothing, I had to very much
rest and he needed to keep hisroutine, and that's who he is.
(15:54):
And so I think, like just thatdownward movement it was
different for him, he still hadthat, but he also needed to keep
his routines.
But I think, like we really hadto come together when it came to
just everyday things likeeating and some of those pieces
just coming together to decidelike who feels good enough in
(16:17):
this moment to like toss a salador whatever it is, run to the
store or you know something likethat and just being able to
just take it moment by moment,just feeling where you are.
At that time, I think, becauseit had been a few losses in for
(16:38):
me, I knew I had, I knew, kindof like, how I needed to respond
to what I was feeling in mybody, to really listen to that
and if I went against it that itwould be so much harder.
And so learning to live insideof what, what your body is
teaching you.
Our bodies are so wise, theynever lie to us.
Brad Quillen (17:01):
And you you were just talking about you and Brian
had to come together and kindof figure out who might have the
energy to take on dinner orthis task or that task.
And we we talk about this ideaof we have to take care of
ourselves because we can't pourfrom an empty cup.
And so I'm just going to throwit out there to either one of
you that just want to take amoment of w hat is a practical
(17:21):
or two practical ways thatsomeone might be able to take
care of themselves or nourish alittle bit about themselves,
just as they walk in these firstearly days, or it could be
weeks or a few months in?
Colleen Montague (17:35):
I like what you said, Erin, about Brian
needing to take a walk and justhow helpful that was for him.
Just a simple walk around theblock.
If you can manage that, that'sa good way to nourish your body
and really your mind too as aresult.
Socially, what do you need, youknow?
Do you need connections withothers in this moment, or do you
(17:57):
need a break from the world inthis moment?
Erin Nelson (18:00):
Yeah, and finding the right people right, and just
like, I think, thinking aboutenergy, like who does give you
what you need, just thatcomforting presence, somebody
who won't add more pain in someway because of you know whether
they're they're talking too muchor whether they're telling you
(18:21):
stories about someone else, orwhatever that might be.
It's the right people andthat's pretty strategic, right,
and we've talked to our familiesabout that.
It's like who do you needaround you?
Who are those people?
And sometimes you have thepeople that are coming in and
they're really helpful and Iknow we've talked about that.
(18:43):
Where you can, people say likeI'm here, right, I want to help
you, what do you need?
Sometimes you really don't knowwhat you need, but you know,
during like a quiet moment, youcould just write down a few
things that are helpful, right,and just kind of put it out
there, put it on a, you know, onyour counter or something like
that, and it's like maybe thereare a few things that you need.
(19:05):
Maybe somebody could just pickup your laundry and take it home
and do it and come back andhave it folded, or something
like that.
Or pick up some groceries, andso finding out what you need
with from the right people whoreally do want to help.
Brad Quillen (19:19):
And, as you say there are people that are help,
but there's also people that aredrains that drain on us, and
it's okay to put up boundariesin this season.
Erin Nelson (19:29):
Absolutely.
Brad Quillen (19:29):
There's nothing wrong with that.
Erin Nelson (19:31):
No, there's nothing wrong with that.
Brad Quillen (19:32):
And, Erin, we learned many years ago doing
ministry in the church.
That was that was one of thethings people would always say
well, tell me if there'sanything I can do.
And I remember somebody havingit written down a couple scripts
of paper on their on theirkitchen table and would say,
well, could you take care ofthis, this task for me?
And that's one of the things Inever forgot, and when you spoke
of that, I thought oh, that'sright, that was one of the
(19:54):
things I learned early, early on, about that.
Colleen Montague (19:57):
So you know it came to mind when we were
talking about that that you knowyou are really in the process
of getting to know your new self, and so every day that you get
through, you're going to learnnew pieces of information about
what is helpful to you, what isnot helpful.
And so that's empowering,because tomorrow you're going to
(20:17):
know more about yourself thanyou did today, and so you're not
going to repeat this day again.
You're going to be a little bitdifferent tomorrow, and you're
going to know this new versionof yourself that's evolving a
little bit better tomorrow toknow what you need.
Erin Nelson (20:34):
Yeah, you're finding wisdom right and what
you need for the future.
I really like the way you putthat, just like information, a
little bit more informationabout yourself, just kind of
like hearing there's a momentumright in grief and just you're
kind of writing that, a littlebit kind of floating with it and
(20:54):
in your learning along the wayand just letting it take you
where you need to be.
Trus ting that flow and thatprocess.
Absolutely.
Brad Quillen (21:04):
And that idea of trusting your body that it knows
what it needs.
Erin and Colleen, thanks forthose few minutes of just
talking about some of the waysto support ourselves.
When we come back from thebreak, though, we're going to
talk about how do we support ourkids' needs, so stay with us.
Gary Shriver (21:20):
Jessica's House is a children's bereavement center
located in California's CentralValley since 2012.
Jessica's House provides freepeer support for children, teens
, young adults and theirfamilies grieving a loss.
If you need grief-relatedsupport, please visit
jessicashouseorg to download ourfree resources and be sure to
(21:42):
follow Jessica's House on socialmedia and if you have any
questions or topics you'd likeus to explore in a future
episode.
Brad Quillen (21:55):
Just send us an email at info at
jessicashouseorg.
Hey, Erin, we were just talkingabout some of those things that
are good to help take care ofourselves, and right now we want
to shift and talk a little bitabout how do we talk and care
for our kiddos after someonedies, and one of the things I
hear often in my adult groups iswhen a parent is late or a
caregiver is late, they'll get15, 20 texts within like five
(22:18):
minutes from the kids when areyou?
Are you there?
There's so much angst becausesomething bad has happened, so
they're assuming something badagain is going to happen.
Erin Nelson (22:28):
Yeah, and I think you know, when you have a death,
especially for the very firsttime you know for a child, you
have this compromised sense ofsafety.
You know before, maybe you justexpected, like this person,
they leave home, they come backright when that doesn't happen,
(22:49):
or you know what you thought maybe the answer or healing from a
disease or something like that,and then someone dies like you
never expect that and it reallycompromises that sense of safety
that you feel in the world.
And then as soon as that thinghappens that you always feared
(23:10):
would happen, then you'rethinking like what else might
happen.
Brad Quillen (23:14):
The world's not safe.
Erin Nelson (23:15):
The world's not safe.
So I think what we notice isthere is a lot more anxiety,
just naturally with kids aftersomeone dies and whether that's
a parent who dies or a sibling,you know we have heard where a
child will worry they might havethe same illness that their
(23:36):
sibling did and so being able tohave an understanding about
what happened.
And a lot of that comes fromjust continuing to touch in with
your kids, right To ask themwhat questions do they have,
being able to tell the truthabout what happened and how
(23:56):
bodies work and when you knowhow someone might die, and also
to put it in perspective abouthow rare these types of things
are, and also that they may beworried about your safety.
Right, they may be worriedabout just your health.
Brad Quillen (24:18):
So being able to say to your child like, hey, I'm
doing everything I can to stayhealthy, to stay safe, and just
being able to continue to assurethem you know, when you were
speaking I was thinking we dothe same thing in that
questioning, because when wehear or get a phone call that
maybe a cousin or a relative ora friend, has died, our first
(24:41):
reaction is what?
No?
And then our second statementor question is well, how?
And we're doing the exact samething, whatever our age is as an
adult, but we're doing thatsame thing.
It's not normal.
And so we're questioning that.
How it's not normal for someonemaybe our age and middle age to
die, but we do the same thingas adults that kiddos are doing,
(25:03):
you know, at young ages.
Erin Nelson (25:05):
Yeah, trying to make sense of it, reflecting on
what does it mean for our safetyand all of that.
It's very normal to go, it'svery natural to have those types
of thoughts and to also kind ofintegrate and move through and
find assurance.
I think one piece of what we'realways kind of thinking about
(25:27):
for kids and also for ourselves,is that we can't feel safe
unless we feel safe on a sensorylevel.
For kids, that means you knowwhat do they need to feel safe?
You know they need to reflecton what helps them feel better.
It could be like just theirfavorite stuffed animal.
It could be they want to sleepwith the light on.
(25:47):
It could be they need yourpresence, they need you to be
the proximity of their caregiver, just to have you close to them
and just building more safetythan needed.
t's know that we've talked topeople like for me, after Carter
died, are my spicy chips, wereeverything?
No, really.
(26:08):
And so I know, truly I I thinkabout that, but like there was
something about just even havingmy favorite snacks around and
just like those early days justknowing that like maybe I
couldn't eat a full meal but Icould just have something that I
loved, that felt like home tome in some ways and just some
(26:30):
way that we can take good careof our bodies and ourselves on a
sensory level, and it could bejust a soft blanket, it could be
your comfortable couch and justfinding that safety is really
important.
Brad Quillen (26:49):
And one of those things that we've learned over
the years from kiddos andfamilies is just that
consistency.
And I know, Colleen, we'vetalked about this a lot, that
trying to keep as much aspossible and there's a huge
asterisk next to possible, rightbut just trying to keep things
consistent.
Can you speak to that for acouple of moments?
And what we what you and I've,Erin have learned from some of
those, those families?
Colleen Montague (27:08):
Yeah, that consistency and that routine
speaks to what you just saidhere and about feeling safe on a
sensory level and so trying anasterisk, like you said, Brad,
as best you can, as best you can, having some consistency.
That predictability is sohelpful for a kiddo yourself too
(27:28):
, really, when everything elseis just chaos around you, to
know when bedtime is coming orwhen you plan to have dinner
available is so helpful.
Erin Nelson (27:41):
Yeah, and I think just even being able to take all
the guesswork out of their,your child's day, right.
Whatever you can do andsometimes that's just having
touch points through the day, itcould be in the evening you
really break down the next dayand you say, okay, tomorrow
we're going to get up at thistime, this person is going to
take you to school.
(28:01):
Tomorrow I'll be doing this.
We're going to have a timetogether in the morning and this
is what, like what sounds goodfor breakfast tomorrow, and just
being able to give choices.
But there is consistency.
They can go to bedunderstanding, like what does
their next day look like?
This is where we'll sleeptonight, this is your stuffed
(28:22):
animal, whatever it is, evenjust keeping those little
nighttime rituals that you'vealways had, or maybe even adding
one more that makes adifference that they'd like to
do, and so just those littletouch-ins during the day, and I
just guess we can't say enoughabout just the parent.
I mean, as empty as you mayfeel, you're still a container
(28:45):
for your child, right, and soyou're still that person that
helps them feel safe and so youcan be there with them and just
being able to just continue toconnect.
Brad Quillen (28:56):
And I know there's someone listening to this right
now that is going, I justcan't, and I just want you to
know, it's one day at a time.
Erin Nelson (29:05):
Absolutely.
Brad Quillen (29:06):
And for some it might be just this next hour.
What can I do this next hourfor a little consistency?
And that's okay.
Erin Nelson (29:14):
It is okay, just taking it an hour at a time.
Colleen Montague (29:18):
It's that predictability that you're
speaking of, Erin, that couldbring some comfort.
You can't predict the whole dayor how you'll be feeling in the
next hour, but wherever you cangive your kiddo a little bit of
predictability, can be helpful.
Erin Nelson (29:33):
It is, it's helpful and I think we all need that.
And just coming to somesemblance of routine, and
especially if the person whodied filled roles in your
child's life, right, because Iknow I facilitated in one
middles group we call it middleslike that kind of junior high
(29:54):
age and we had this really longconversation one time with the
middles about how it justhappened to be that every one of
their parents who died was theperson who made dinner and how
what did it feel like for themwhen the sun started going down
(30:15):
and they realized that there wasno plan for dinner.
And so like, if someone elsewill be making dinner, like
let's talk about that, ifsomeone else is taking you to
school or to your doctor'sappointment or whatever, being
able to really share with yourchild, what does that look like?
(30:36):
And so me like meeting thoseneeds ahead of time and being
able to say, hey, like maybeyou're not, you're not sure,
like for you know, but you couldsay we're going to figure it
out and as soon as I know I'mgoing to tell you.
I just welcome their questionsalways.
Brad Quillen (30:54):
Hey, two things that when you were talking, I
once had a dad in group C.
Mom had died and he was nowresponsible for cooking that he
didn't realize there was morespices than salt and pepper.
Like there's just that new roleof oh my goodness, there's so
much more to this, like and it'soverwhelming.
ike the other overwhelming thingthat I just thought of was I've
(31:17):
had a lot of moms and dads askover the years how long should I
let them sleep in bed with me,cause that's a comfort, and so
some have said it's been twoyears and they're like I want my
bed back but, I don't want totake that comfort for my kid.
So can you guys speak to thatfor a moment of just that
comfort?
Cause there's that security andI sleep in mom's room.
(31:38):
Or I've had grandparents toowhere the kiddos are sleeping on
the floor in the grandparents'room because their parent has
died and now they're living withgrandma and grandpa, those
pieces.
Erin Nelson (31:47):
Yeah, absolutely, and I think about just in my own
story, you know, after Tylerdied because he went on a trip,
so the kids slept with me.
They were so excited to be ableto sleep in my bed and you know,
and I think about, theydefinitely stayed in my bed that
first year and that's soindividual, right, because
(32:07):
sometimes families are justnaturally all sleeping together.
Anyway, I did hear a dad sayone time it's like they go to
sleep and they don't know wherethey'll wake up, right, because
one child cries and they're youhop in bed with them or whatever
that looks like.
But like it's just such anindividual decision and just
like talking, talking with yourkids about it, and sometimes
(32:27):
there's that transition periodwhere like, hey, we're going to
leave this little sleeping bagnext to our bed and you're
always welcome, like you know,just like if you need to pop in,
come on, you know, and maybeit's not in your bed but it's a
sleeping bag or maybe it goes toit, just like kind of changes,
you know, and just to let themlead that a little bit but also
(32:51):
kind of be working together.
Brad Quillen (32:53):
Yeah, I'm glad you said that, giving that
permission to enter in anothersleeping bag, right?
That's there if you need it,because, Colleen, there's
questions that kiddos have butsometimes they're just they
don't know if they can ask thatquestion and can you, I know
we've talked about this fromsome of the adult groups we do,
but just that checking in andthat presence and giving them
(33:14):
space to be able to ask thosequestions, cause sometimes kids
are a little nervous at what'shappened to ask a question or
two.
Colleen Montague (33:21):
Every time a question is asked by them to you
, it's an opportunity to buildthat in for the future, to
become that person that theyknow they can go to for the
answers or for that feedback orjust to kind of explore an idea
with.
And so it's great if they'recoming to you for that and you
can nurture that with just thosehonest answers.
(33:42):
Or I like what you said, Erin,about just that open door of you
know meeting their needs too ifit's a sleeping arrangement.
Erin Nelson (33:51):
Colleen, I have a question for you.
At Jessica's house, we talk alot about reflection and
mirroring, and so how do you dothat with children like, what
does it look like for kids thatyou know you've worked with,
when it comes to really comingalongside them as their parent?
How can you mirror their energyand reflect them?
Colleen Montague (34:14):
Really it's about what you said, that
reflection, so really justreflecting their words back to
them to show that you're reallywith them and you're listening.
And so if they're asking youabout if they can sleep in bed
with you tonight and you can sayyou want to sleep in bed with
me tonight, let's talk about it.
Where would you like to sleep?
Or what if I were to leave asleeping bag next to my bed?
(34:38):
How would that feel and see howthey respond back to you.
And then you can just come downto their level, mirror their
curiosity or their energy level.
Erin Nelson (34:49):
And you know, just like we have these we've been
talking about the waves of grief.
I mean we might have thosewaves and kids are having them
too, right, and so as theybounce up into like a bigger
energy, I just think about howwe can also match them as well
and just kind of enter into,kind of what they're going
through and and just reallybeing able to reflect and mirror
(35:13):
what they're experiencing andtheir grief and if they're
expressing sadness or fear orwhatever it is like really
coming inside of that and justbeing curious about what it
means for them and if it meansbringing our energy down into
where they are, that can reallyhelp them just feel like you're
(35:36):
with them.
Colleen Montague (35:37):
Yeah, it's like a balancing act in a way.
You know, sometimes you'regoing to set the thermostat or
the temperature of the room withyour energy, and I mean that in
a positive way, with yourcalmness, with that open
container ready to hold whatthey're bringing in.
But then sometimes, maybe, youlet them set the energy of the
room.
They're going to come in withthat natural big energy so you
(35:59):
meet them there, you know, withthe bigger, you know louder
voice, excitement or just thebig movements of their body.
But if they come in and they'rereally low, then yeah, you can
meet them there too.
So it's kind of like a balancereally.
Erin Nelson (36:13):
We've talked so much about how helpful it is
when others do that for us whenwe're grieving, that if you are
just having a moment whereyou're feeling just really low,
that whoever walks in the roomreally mirrors that, and how
helpful that can be.
And I know that's an approachwe have here at Jessica's House
(36:35):
is to try to mirror and reflectthat.
And you kind of say something Ireally have always loved, and
when you talk about how to comealongside someone who's grieving
.
Colleen Montague (36:47):
Yeah, I have coined this little term that
I've said a couple of times nowof just our secret recipe of
grief support here at Jessica'sHouse comes down to two things.
It's about being a companion tothose you're with.
You are not the expert of howthey're feeling or their grief,
(37:08):
but you want to understand it,you want to come alongside them,
and that second ingredient isreflection that you explained so
well, Erin, of just thatmirroring of the language, the
words they're using, theirenergy, their body language.
So, really, if you comealongside somebody with those
(37:29):
two intentions to be a companionand to reflect what they're
showing you, you're off to areally good start, yeah, and
sometimes our families.
Erin Nelson (37:38):
upport just may be just what they need and that
might be something that, um,that they can ask for when they
need it.
Colleen Montague (37:47):
Yeah, because I don't know that it's very
natural for our society tocompanion people well.
That takes a lot ofintentionality and wisdom, in a
way, and so we may not know todo that if someone doesn't teach
us how and what I mean by thatis how it would feel for them,
what they actually do want, whatthey need.
Erin Nelson (38:08):
Yeah, we're really good at cheering people up,
aren't we?
Brad Quillen (38:12):
And it's funny you say that that's not our natural
, because I know there's a fewpeople listening and they're
thinking well, where could Ibegin?
Like, what practically could Ido to start a conversation with
my kiddo?
Or I try, but they don't sayanything, or it's kind of like I
get stonewalled by my own kid.
We wanted to share somepractical ways that parents can
have those conversations, and so, Erin, do you want to share a
(38:34):
little bit about the "I wonder,I wish, I hope.
Erin Nelson (38:37):
Yeah, and this is just an activity that we kind of
talk about a little bit, aboutjust these three questions I
wonder, I wish, I hope.
And when you are talking toyour child, it's okay to just
express all the wonderings,right?
(38:58):
You know, I wonder, and thenour wishes, like what do you
wish could be different.
It's okay to talk about that,it's okay to just even just
express all of that.
You can do that by drawing apicture, just like I wonder, dot
dot dot, I wish dot dot dot.
And just like being able to putall of that like I wonder what
(39:20):
would have happened if theyfound a cure or they didn't die,
or, you know, sometimes it'slike I wish being able to say
what I wish, I wish I could justplay with you one more time,
you know, and then just endinglike with I hope, I hope that I
won't always feel the way I doin this moment, or that I'll
(39:43):
find a friend who can listen tome.
Whatever it is, it's just beingable to have those open-ended
discussions and just be able totalk to each other.
Colleen Montague (39:56):
And, brad, you mentioned about being
stonewalled by your child.
They may naturally lean intothat activity right out the gate
, or maybe they don't, and maybethat's not their natural
inclination.
But you can model it.
You can just think aloud.
I wonder what daddy would havethought of this.
It just offers them permissionand that modeling and maybe in
(40:17):
time they'll start to becomemore comfortable with that and
make those statements with you,those wonderings or those wishes
.
Brad Quillen (40:24):
And they might need to take a piece of paper
and you have to write the Iwonder dot dot dot.
And the next piece of paper,right, I wish dot dot dot.
Or, and then, I hope, on thethird piece of paper and give
them time with it.
Erin Nelson (40:36):
Absolutely.
Brad Quillen (40:37):
Cause it's not going to, not every kid's going
to going to jump with threeanswers right to those three
statements right away.
But again, some might draw,some might write novels, some
might just write a few words.
Right, I wish that the redlight lasted longer.
I wish I could, you know, haveone more cup of coffee with you
on.
You know, on the porch, allthese different things and I
hope, I hope I do feel bettersoon.
(40:58):
You know, in all these things,but it might take some time.
Erin Nelson (41:02):
Absolutely, and just any kind of wish for your
future.
You know any kind of wish,something that we know is, just
as our bodies know how to heal abroken bone, it knows how to
heal our broken heart.
So that trust for our future toknow that we have the capacity
to heal.
Brad Quillen (41:23):
Erin, Colleen, thanks for this today.
I sure appreciate the time andfor those of you out there,
thanks for listening.
If you have any questions orfuture show ideas, please email
us at info@ jessicashouse.
org, or for more resources, youcan always go to our website,
jessicashouse.
org.
Be sure to join us next timefor another episode of when
(41:43):
Grief Comes Home, where we'll bediscussing the changing seasons
and how it all ties to grief.
Until next time, we wish youwell.
Gary Shriver (41:56):
Jessica's House is a children's bereavement center
located in California's CentralValley since 2012.
We provide free peer supportfor children, teens, young
adults and their familiesgrieving a loss.
If you need grief-relatedsupport, please visit
jessicashouse.
org to download our freeresources and be sure to follow
(42:18):
Jessica's House on social media,and if you have any questions
or topics you'd like for us toexplore in future episodes, just
send us an email tojessicashouse.
org.
Thank you for joining us andwe'll see you next time, for
when Grief Comes Home.
Hello and welcome to when Grief Comes Home, a
podcast dedicated to parentsliving through loss while
supporting their child.
Let's meet the team.
Erin Nelson (00:11):
I'm Erin Nelson, founding executive director at
Jessica's House.
Colleen Montague (00:15):
Hi, I'm Colleen Montague, program
director for Jessica's House anda licensed marriage and family
therapist.
Brad Quillen (00:21):
Hi, I'm Brad Quillen and I'm the host of when
Grief Comes Home.
Gary Shriver (00:25):
Now through this podcast, they'll share grief
resources and coping skills,heartfelt stories and insights
to support parents as they raisechildren who are grieving
Together.
You'll find strength as welearn to live with loss and find
ways to heal.
Brad Quillen (00:43):
Well, hello, hello .
It's Brad from Jessica's House,and today we're talking about
ways to support yourself as yousupport others.
We want to remind you thatthere are no right or wrong
approaches to grief.
Today we're going to talk aboutways to get through grief
together, and right now Erin'sgoing to share a bit about her
story when her and her husbandlost Carter and how they grieved
(01:05):
differently.
Erin, would you take a fewmoments and just share with us
what that looked like for youguys?
Erin Nelson (01:11):
Thanks, Brad.
Yes, when in 2019, our son,Carter, died as a result of a
car accident, and you know, justas in any relationship that we
have, we're very different,right, and just as we're in a
family and in a marriage, we'rejust different people.
(01:32):
We were different before Carterdied and the way we proceeded
after he died, we just haddifferent approaches to our
grief and, of course, likeyou're never prepared for that
right and you never know justhow you'll both react but from
the very beginning, I noticedthat I needed a lot of time by
(01:56):
myself.
I needed a lot of time just inCarter's room.
I just needed time just toprocess, like everything that
happened.
And Brian was and is so muchmore extroverted than I am.
He really enjoys his peoplearound him and he would stay up
(02:17):
late at night and just kind ofsit by the fire outside and talk
to his friends and and really,really helped him.
And I think, just being awarethat we have to give each other
space to be themselves whenthey're grieving and just to
know that we have to fullyaccept that.
(02:37):
And that's always kind of hardalso because we're always
cycling kind of in and out ofkind of the waves of grief.
One person may be in the middleof something really difficult
that they're processing and kindof a wave of grief that's very
intense, while another person iskind of in that recession and
(03:03):
just kind of just got throughsomething really hard and maybe
they're feeling a little bit ofrelief.
So we're always grievingdifferently, naturally in our
personality, but also we're atdifferent places as well.
Brad Quillen (03:11):
And you and Brian are very different.
Like truly and I, I would saythat I hear people in groups
with some of the adults that Iwork with, that they feel
they're not doing it the rightway because so many people say,
oh, you need to try this or youneed to do this, and it's so
different for each person andthere's no right or wrong and
sometimes you find what worksfor you on the fifth or sixth
(03:34):
thing that you try.
Erin Nelson (03:36):
Yes, and there's no right or wrong.
And, as you mentioned groups, Ithink that's you know, when we
even talk, the very first timesomeone comes to Jessica's house
just seeing, like you know, howmany of you have had just
received a lot of advice, andthey know that this is an
advice-free zone and I thinkkeeping that safe space, even in
(03:57):
a family, is important.
Brad Quillen (04:00):
Yeah, because you had three kiddos that lost a
sibling, and so you got thedynamic of you and your husband,
but then kiddos.
Erin Nelson (04:09):
Right, yeah, and we're all different in that, and
each person in the family has adifferent relationship with a
person who died.
We all had a differentexperience of learning about the
death and how we related to thedeath, and all of that comes
into play when you grievesomeone, and so, even inside of
(04:33):
a family, your relationship, theway the person died, your own
personality, all of that playsinto just kind of what those
family dynamics are.
Brad Quillen (04:42):
Yeah, and I'm glad you mentioned the introvert,
extrovert piece because wesometimes notice people get
really quiet and people go, y ouknow is there something wrong
with that?
Erin Nelson (04:55):
Right.
Brad Quillen (04:56):
Or they get a little more relationship driven,
you know, and it's it'sdifferent than before the death.
And so people get nervous orwonder are they okay?
Because they are so quiet rightnow.
Erin Nelson (05:08):
Yes, and even just emotionality, like just the
emotions of grief, and how weeven process, whether we process
externally.
I always like to say like forme, like cars are for crying and
screaming, you know but, I Imay not necessarily do that in
the group and in my home, andalso I'm not a big crier and so,
like, sometimes people can feelguilty when they're not crying
(05:31):
as much, and kids especiallyhave expressed that.
And so if just being able toknow, even if you notice that
one child is being moreexpressive and one child isn't,
sometimes you can wonder if thechild who isn't expressing is
not processing their grief.
But maybe they're just doing itdifferently.
Brad Quillen (05:54):
Yeah, there's an internal piece or they're doing
it through different means.
It could be art, it could bedifferent conversations with
different people and it's justnot you.
But we do get nervous becausethey got quiet.
It's fascinating, you broughtthe car piece up, had a mom in
group years ago that used todrive around the block and sing
(06:14):
heavy metal music just to scream.
Erin Nelson (06:17):
Yeah.
Brad Quillen (06:18):
And that was her thing.
She found that and so she woulddrive around the block and just
scream you know, Guns N' Rosesor Aerosmith, you know I can
remember her saying those twobands, but that was kind of her
thing is, when she was at herlimits she just said I would get
in my car and drive the blockand scream music.
You know, roll the windows upand just scream, scream, scream.
Erin Nelson (06:37):
Just that releasing .
And you know we talk a lotabout just grief as energy in
your body and sometimes you canreally sense that and I really
like knowing that she wouldsense that and know when is it
time to get into my car andrelease that energy of grief and
let it just keep flowing.
And she found a way to do that.
Brad Quillen (06:58):
Yeah, can you speak to the listeners for a
moment of that buildup?
Because, we've heard that andI've heard that a lot in groups
that I can feel it coming on orthe I can feel the amount of the
energy coming up.
Erin Nelson (07:13):
It's so interesting how we hear that universally
that you know people describegrief so much as waves or
something like that.
And just kind of that building,peaking and receding and just
how you can feel it coming on.
And then there's that you know,think about the ocean, right,
(07:34):
and you think about the energyinside of it and how you know
that is that energy.
It's the same in our body, it'sthe same with grief, it's like
a building up and you can feelthat and I know we had one child
who just said that like I feltit just building up and it was
like a big, wet, heavy spongeand then I just squeezed it out
and I felt lighter and so beingable to just feel that and
(08:00):
express it as it comes, like,however, you're feeling that
buildup, letting it flow throughyou in some way, like she did,
like that mom did, just beingable to scream it out.
Brad Quillen (08:11):
And and I don't think we talk about this enough
of giving ourself grace whenwe're in grief.
Erin Nelson (08:17):
What does that mean , Brad?
Brad Quillen (08:19):
So I for me, I, as I sit with families, sometimes
I'll often catch myself sayingit's it's okay to not have it
all together right now.
In the midst of that and whatyou're going through.
It's a mystery right?
Yeah, you never knew you'd react this way
because you lost someone youloved and you haven't
(08:39):
experienced that.
So how would you have it alltogether?
Erin Nelson (08:42):
There's so many unknowns that you don't
encounter until you're there.
Brad Quillen (08:48):
And we don't know how we'll react until we're in
that moment.
Erin Nelson (08:51):
You do not know, yeah, and sometimes you're
grieving something new, like apart of that person that you
didn't even realize that youneeded to grieve, and so those
emerge over time and you justgrieve them in bits and pieces,
and so I think there's so muchunknown in that.
Brad Quillen (09:11):
And future episodes.
I know we're going to get tothis but as time goes there's a
lot of the first years and thosethings that we don't even know
we're going to react to.
That are months down the roadand I don't say that to make
anyone nervous.
That's listening.
But there are those things thatdo continue to come and those
emotions that it's right back inthe forefront of your mind of
(09:34):
boy, I didn't see this comingtoday.
Erin Nelson (09:36):
Yeah, and you know that can be a really hard part
about grief is that you can findsome relief as those waves
recede and then just be inanother set of waves again,
right, and they just come overyou.
You know, and I feel like Iheard someone say once it was
like kind of they're standingalways kind of ankle deep in the
(09:57):
water and it's like that griefis right there, right?
But then those waves are comingin and but yeah, sometimes you
know they're bigger than others.
Brad Quillen (10:07):
Yeah, and I just tell, I just tell adults in
groups that when we have thosebig emotions it's just a
reminder of who we loved a lot.
Erin Nelson (10:16):
It's, it is really the energy of love and you know,
knowing that it's, it's that'swhy we grieve, is because we
love, and we're wanting to putthat love, that adoration, that
energy of love into someone.
But it's returning back to uswith no place to land, right?
And it's like it's all comingback because and it's those
(10:39):
memories right, and it's likewe're reminded of how much we
long for them.
Brad Quillen (10:45):
It's almost like it's a void.
Erin Nelson (10:47):
It is a void.
Brad Quillen (10:48):
Yeah, hey, Colleen , with what you've heard Erin
and I just talking about for afew minutes.
You and I have been doing adultgroups for quite some time and
we hear in some of the thingsErin and I were just talking
about, but the natural realitythat grief just kind of slows us
down, it's a natural way thatour body slows down is in grief.
(11:08):
What would you say to somepeople that are feeling, that,
that are listening right now?
Colleen Montague (11:13):
That conversation of lethargy does
come up a lot, and just howexhausting grief is on the body,
on the mind, the soul.
Cognitively, you're not goingto be functioning at the
capacity you once did either, soyour thoughts might feel very
fuzzy or muddled.
Brad Quillen (11:32):
Sluggish is the word that I'll hear often in
group, sluggish.
Colleen Montague (11:36):
Yes, that's one of the reasons why it's
advised not to make bigdecisions right away, or even in
that first year, and so,keeping that in mind, with how
you're doing, you add to thatcaring for your children, which
adds to the heaviness of whatyou're holding, and so not only
(12:00):
are you still their parent, butnow you're grieving and helping
them with their grief too.
Something that might feel verybackwards to parents is the idea
that you really do need to takecare of yourself first, before
your kiddos, and I think in oursociety we think that we must
just always be caring for others.
(12:21):
Especially us moms have thatthought.
But really, in truth, there'san analogy that's used in
regards to when you're on aplane.
The flight attendant will sayif there's a loss of oxygen in
the cabin, the masks will comedown to give you a supply of
oxygen, but you must put yourson first and then put it on any
(12:46):
younger children you're with,because if you go without oxygen
first, you won't even beconscious to put the mask on
your kid, and so we must tend toourselves first in order to
have the ability or the capacityto take care of our kids next,
and so that might seem backwards, but really it is the natural
(13:08):
order.
Brad Quillen (13:09):
Colleen, when you were talking it made me think to
a mom that came to group manyyears ago.
Just the daily routines are sohard and this mom came into
group, sits down and abouthalfway group through the group
she looks down and she goes, Ihave two different shoes on,
like at baseline.
She's like I can't even put thesame shoes on to go to work.
(13:31):
And she'd gone to work all dayand then came to group with her
family or kiddos.
And that's the reality of justsome of those remedial, normal
daily tasks are interrupted bygrief.
Colleen Montague (13:42):
Yes, and it's okay.
Absolutely the fact that shecould even go to work and then
come and bring her family togroup.
I mean that's already a win,and so she had different shoes
on.
Okay, it's okay.
Brad Quillen (13:56):
Right.
So, Colleen, with those dailyroutines, even dinner becomes a
chore, and I've heard a lot offamilies and moms and dads and
grandparents or aunts and unclesthat now have custody are
trying to just get dinner on thetable, and it's like we're
doing fast food for a fourthnight in a row.
But that's survival right now.
And so what would you say tothose those folks that are
(14:19):
listening?
That that's where they're at.
Colleen Montague (14:21):
Again, I would just say it's about those small
wins and redefining what thatlooks like to you now.
You're a different person,right, your family has changed
and so there's going to be someredefining you're going to do,
and that's going to keepevolving over time.
But in this season, right now,okay, so what?
So you're going to reheatchicken nuggets again, right,
(14:44):
it's okay, you're feeding yourfamily.
Brad Quillen (14:47):
Things are different.
Colleen Montague (14:47):
Yeah.
Brad Quillen (14:50):
And Erin when you went through that.
What was that like for you athome when Carter died, because
you kind of faced that samething of we've got to do dinner
and things still have to getdone.
But so much had changed.
Erin Nelson (15:07):
Yeah, I just think, you know, colleen, when you
talked about the lethargy ofgrief, and like, truly I've
experienced just that feeling ofheaviness.
You know that feeling ofheaviness in my body.
And again, just to introducelike how different Brian and I
are, he had this energy of griefthat needed to get out of his
body.
So we always took walks everymorning, and so he would get up
(15:30):
and go take his daily walk and Ireally could not move.
And so he would get up and gotake his daily walk and I really
could not move.
And so I just needed to bethere, just like I needed to sit
on the couch, I just had tolike even like anything
constricting on my body, like awaistband like I couldn't wear,
I had to just wear very looseclothing, I had to very much
rest and he needed to keep hisroutine, and that's who he is.
(15:54):
And so I think, like just thatdownward movement it was
different for him, he still hadthat, but he also needed to keep
his routines.
But I think, like we really hadto come together when it came to
just everyday things likeeating and some of those pieces
just coming together to decidelike who feels good enough in
(16:17):
this moment to like toss a salador whatever it is, run to the
store or you know something likethat and just being able to
just take it moment by moment,just feeling where you are.
At that time, I think, becauseit had been a few losses in for
(16:38):
me, I knew I had, I knew, kindof like, how I needed to respond
to what I was feeling in mybody, to really listen to that
and if I went against it that itwould be so much harder.
And so learning to live insideof what, what your body is
teaching you.
Our bodies are so wise, theynever lie to us.
Brad Quillen (17:01):
And you you were just talking about you and Brian
had to come together and kindof figure out who might have the
energy to take on dinner orthis task or that task.
And we we talk about this ideaof we have to take care of
ourselves because we can't pourfrom an empty cup.
And so I'm just going to throwit out there to either one of
you that just want to take amoment of w hat is a practical
(17:21):
or two practical ways thatsomeone might be able to take
care of themselves or nourish alittle bit about themselves,
just as they walk in these firstearly days, or it could be
weeks or a few months in?
Colleen Montague (17:35):
I like what you said, Erin, about Brian
needing to take a walk and justhow helpful that was for him.
Just a simple walk around theblock.
If you can manage that, that'sa good way to nourish your body
and really your mind too as aresult.
Socially, what do you need, youknow?
Do you need connections withothers in this moment, or do you
(17:57):
need a break from the world inthis moment?
Erin Nelson (18:00):
Yeah, and finding the right people right, and just
like, I think, thinking aboutenergy, like who does give you
what you need, just thatcomforting presence, somebody
who won't add more pain in someway because of you know whether
they're they're talking too muchor whether they're telling you
(18:21):
stories about someone else, orwhatever that might be.
It's the right people andthat's pretty strategic, right,
and we've talked to our familiesabout that.
It's like who do you needaround you?
Who are those people?
And sometimes you have thepeople that are coming in and
they're really helpful and Iknow we've talked about that.
(18:43):
Where you can, people say likeI'm here, right, I want to help
you, what do you need?
Sometimes you really don't knowwhat you need, but you know,
during like a quiet moment, youcould just write down a few
things that are helpful, right,and just kind of put it out
there, put it on a, you know, onyour counter or something like
that, and it's like maybe thereare a few things that you need.
(19:05):
Maybe somebody could just pickup your laundry and take it home
and do it and come back andhave it folded, or something
like that.
Or pick up some groceries, andso finding out what you need
with from the right people whoreally do want to help.
Brad Quillen (19:19):
And, as you say there are people that are help,
but there's also people that aredrains that drain on us, and
it's okay to put up boundariesin this season.
Erin Nelson (19:29):
Absolutely.
Brad Quillen (19:29):
There's nothing wrong with that.
Erin Nelson (19:31):
No, there's nothing wrong with that.
Brad Quillen (19:32):
And, Erin, we learned many years ago doing
ministry in the church.
That was that was one of thethings people would always say
well, tell me if there'sanything I can do.
And I remember somebody havingit written down a couple scripts
of paper on their on theirkitchen table and would say,
well, could you take care ofthis, this task for me?
And that's one of the things Inever forgot, and when you spoke
of that, I thought oh, that'sright, that was one of the
(19:54):
things I learned early, early on, about that.
Colleen Montague (19:57):
So you know it came to mind when we were
talking about that that you knowyou are really in the process
of getting to know your new self, and so every day that you get
through, you're going to learnnew pieces of information about
what is helpful to you, what isnot helpful.
And so that's empowering,because tomorrow you're going to
(20:17):
know more about yourself thanyou did today, and so you're not
going to repeat this day again.
You're going to be a little bitdifferent tomorrow, and you're
going to know this new versionof yourself that's evolving a
little bit better tomorrow toknow what you need.
Erin Nelson (20:34):
Yeah, you're finding wisdom right and what
you need for the future.
I really like the way you putthat, just like information, a
little bit more informationabout yourself, just kind of
like hearing there's a momentumright in grief and just you're
kind of writing that, a littlebit kind of floating with it and
(20:54):
in your learning along the wayand just letting it take you
where you need to be.
Trus ting that flow and thatprocess.
Absolutely.
Brad Quillen (21:04):
And that idea of trusting your body that it knows
what it needs.
Erin and Colleen, thanks forthose few minutes of just
talking about some of the waysto support ourselves.
When we come back from thebreak, though, we're going to
talk about how do we support ourkids' needs, so stay with us.
Gary Shriver (21:20):
Jessica's House is a children's bereavement center
located in California's CentralValley since 2012.
Jessica's House provides freepeer support for children, teens
, young adults and theirfamilies grieving a loss.
If you need grief-relatedsupport, please visit
jessicashouseorg to download ourfree resources and be sure to
(21:42):
follow Jessica's House on socialmedia and if you have any
questions or topics you'd likeus to explore in a future
episode.
Brad Quillen (21:55):
Just send us an email at info at
jessicashouseorg.
Hey, Erin, we were just talkingabout some of those things that
are good to help take care ofourselves, and right now we want
to shift and talk a little bitabout how do we talk and care
for our kiddos after someonedies, and one of the things I
hear often in my adult groups iswhen a parent is late or a
caregiver is late, they'll get15, 20 texts within like five
(22:18):
minutes from the kids when areyou?
Are you there?
There's so much angst becausesomething bad has happened, so
they're assuming something badagain is going to happen.
Erin Nelson (22:28):
Yeah, and I think you know, when you have a death,
especially for the very firsttime you know for a child, you
have this compromised sense ofsafety.
You know before, maybe you justexpected, like this person,
they leave home, they come backright when that doesn't happen,
(22:49):
or you know what you thought maybe the answer or healing from a
disease or something like that,and then someone dies like you
never expect that and it reallycompromises that sense of safety
that you feel in the world.
And then as soon as that thinghappens that you always feared
(23:10):
would happen, then you'rethinking like what else might
happen.
Brad Quillen (23:14):
The world's not safe.
Erin Nelson (23:15):
The world's not safe.
So I think what we notice isthere is a lot more anxiety,
just naturally with kids aftersomeone dies and whether that's
a parent who dies or a sibling,you know we have heard where a
child will worry they might havethe same illness that their
(23:36):
sibling did and so being able tohave an understanding about
what happened.
And a lot of that comes fromjust continuing to touch in with
your kids, right To ask themwhat questions do they have,
being able to tell the truthabout what happened and how
(23:56):
bodies work and when you knowhow someone might die, and also
to put it in perspective abouthow rare these types of things
are, and also that they may beworried about your safety.
Right, they may be worriedabout just your health.
Brad Quillen (24:18):
So being able to say to your child like, hey, I'm
doing everything I can to stayhealthy, to stay safe, and just
being able to continue to assurethem you know, when you were
speaking I was thinking we dothe same thing in that
questioning, because when wehear or get a phone call that
maybe a cousin or a relative ora friend, has died, our first
(24:41):
reaction is what?
No?
And then our second statementor question is well, how?
And we're doing the exact samething, whatever our age is as an
adult, but we're doing thatsame thing.
It's not normal.
And so we're questioning that.
How it's not normal for someonemaybe our age and middle age to
die, but we do the same thingas adults that kiddos are doing,
(25:03):
you know, at young ages.
Erin Nelson (25:05):
Yeah, trying to make sense of it, reflecting on
what does it mean for our safetyand all of that.
It's very normal to go, it'svery natural to have those types
of thoughts and to also kind ofintegrate and move through and
find assurance.
I think one piece of what we'realways kind of thinking about
(25:27):
for kids and also for ourselves,is that we can't feel safe
unless we feel safe on a sensorylevel.
For kids, that means you knowwhat do they need to feel safe?
You know they need to reflecton what helps them feel better.
It could be like just theirfavorite stuffed animal.
It could be they want to sleepwith the light on.
(25:47):
It could be they need yourpresence, they need you to be
the proximity of their caregiver, just to have you close to them
and just building more safetythan needed.
t's know that we've talked topeople like for me, after Carter
died, are my spicy chips, wereeverything?
No, really.
(26:08):
And so I know, truly I I thinkabout that, but like there was
something about just even havingmy favorite snacks around and
just like those early days justknowing that like maybe I
couldn't eat a full meal but Icould just have something that I
loved, that felt like home tome in some ways and just some
(26:30):
way that we can take good careof our bodies and ourselves on a
sensory level, and it could bejust a soft blanket, it could be
your comfortable couch and justfinding that safety is really
important.
Brad Quillen (26:49):
And one of those things that we've learned over
the years from kiddos andfamilies is just that
consistency.
And I know, Colleen, we'vetalked about this a lot, that
trying to keep as much aspossible and there's a huge
asterisk next to possible, rightbut just trying to keep things
consistent.
Can you speak to that for acouple of moments?
And what we what you and I've,Erin have learned from some of
those, those families?
Colleen Montague (27:08):
Yeah, that consistency and that routine
speaks to what you just saidhere and about feeling safe on a
sensory level and so trying anasterisk, like you said, Brad,
as best you can, as best you can, having some consistency.
That predictability is sohelpful for a kiddo yourself too
(27:28):
, really, when everything elseis just chaos around you, to
know when bedtime is coming orwhen you plan to have dinner
available is so helpful.
Erin Nelson (27:41):
Yeah, and I think just even being able to take all
the guesswork out of their,your child's day, right.
Whatever you can do andsometimes that's just having
touch points through the day, itcould be in the evening you
really break down the next dayand you say, okay, tomorrow
we're going to get up at thistime, this person is going to
take you to school.
(28:01):
Tomorrow I'll be doing this.
We're going to have a timetogether in the morning and this
is what, like what sounds goodfor breakfast tomorrow, and just
being able to give choices.
But there is consistency.
They can go to bedunderstanding, like what does
their next day look like?
This is where we'll sleeptonight, this is your stuffed
(28:22):
animal, whatever it is, evenjust keeping those little
nighttime rituals that you'vealways had, or maybe even adding
one more that makes adifference that they'd like to
do, and so just those littletouch-ins during the day, and I
just guess we can't say enoughabout just the parent.
I mean, as empty as you mayfeel, you're still a container
(28:45):
for your child, right, and soyou're still that person that
helps them feel safe and so youcan be there with them and just
being able to just continue toconnect.
Brad Quillen (28:56):
And I know there's someone listening to this right
now that is going, I justcan't, and I just want you to
know, it's one day at a time.
Erin Nelson (29:05):
Absolutely.
Brad Quillen (29:06):
And for some it might be just this next hour.
What can I do this next hourfor a little consistency?
And that's okay.
Erin Nelson (29:14):
It is okay, just taking it an hour at a time.
Colleen Montague (29:18):
It's that predictability that you're
speaking of, Erin, that couldbring some comfort.
You can't predict the whole dayor how you'll be feeling in the
next hour, but wherever you cangive your kiddo a little bit of
predictability, can be helpful.
Erin Nelson (29:33):
It is, it's helpful and I think we all need that.
And just coming to somesemblance of routine, and
especially if the person whodied filled roles in your
child's life, right, because Iknow I facilitated in one
middles group we call it middleslike that kind of junior high
(29:54):
age and we had this really longconversation one time with the
middles about how it justhappened to be that every one of
their parents who died was theperson who made dinner and how
what did it feel like for themwhen the sun started going down
(30:15):
and they realized that there wasno plan for dinner.
And so like, if someone elsewill be making dinner, like
let's talk about that, ifsomeone else is taking you to
school or to your doctor'sappointment or whatever, being
able to really share with yourchild, what does that look like?
(30:36):
And so me like meeting thoseneeds ahead of time and being
able to say, hey, like maybeyou're not, you're not sure,
like for you know, but you couldsay we're going to figure it
out and as soon as I know I'mgoing to tell you.
I just welcome their questionsalways.
Brad Quillen (30:54):
Hey, two things that when you were talking, I
once had a dad in group C.
Mom had died and he was nowresponsible for cooking that he
didn't realize there was morespices than salt and pepper.
Like there's just that new roleof oh my goodness, there's so
much more to this, like and it'soverwhelming.
ike the other overwhelming thingthat I just thought of was I've
(31:17):
had a lot of moms and dads askover the years how long should I
let them sleep in bed with me,cause that's a comfort, and so
some have said it's been twoyears and they're like I want my
bed back but, I don't want totake that comfort for my kid.
So can you guys speak to thatfor a moment of just that
comfort?
Cause there's that security andI sleep in mom's room.
(31:38):
Or I've had grandparents toowhere the kiddos are sleeping on
the floor in the grandparents'room because their parent has
died and now they're living withgrandma and grandpa, those
pieces.
Erin Nelson (31:47):
Yeah, absolutely, and I think about just in my own
story, you know, after Tylerdied because he went on a trip,
so the kids slept with me.
They were so excited to be ableto sleep in my bed and you know,
and I think about, theydefinitely stayed in my bed that
first year and that's soindividual, right, because
(32:07):
sometimes families are justnaturally all sleeping together.
Anyway, I did hear a dad sayone time it's like they go to
sleep and they don't know wherethey'll wake up, right, because
one child cries and they're youhop in bed with them or whatever
that looks like.
But like it's just such anindividual decision and just
like talking, talking with yourkids about it, and sometimes
(32:27):
there's that transition periodwhere like, hey, we're going to
leave this little sleeping bagnext to our bed and you're
always welcome, like you know,just like if you need to pop in,
come on, you know, and maybeit's not in your bed but it's a
sleeping bag or maybe it goes toit, just like kind of changes,
you know, and just to let themlead that a little bit but also
(32:51):
kind of be working together.
Brad Quillen (32:53):
Yeah, I'm glad you said that, giving that
permission to enter in anothersleeping bag, right?
That's there if you need it,because, Colleen, there's
questions that kiddos have butsometimes they're just they
don't know if they can ask thatquestion and can you, I know
we've talked about this fromsome of the adult groups we do,
but just that checking in andthat presence and giving them
(33:14):
space to be able to ask thosequestions, cause sometimes kids
are a little nervous at what'shappened to ask a question or
two.
Colleen Montague (33:21):
Every time a question is asked by them to you
, it's an opportunity to buildthat in for the future, to
become that person that theyknow they can go to for the
answers or for that feedback orjust to kind of explore an idea
with.
And so it's great if they'recoming to you for that and you
can nurture that with just thosehonest answers.
(33:42):
Or I like what you said, Erin,about just that open door of you
know meeting their needs too ifit's a sleeping arrangement.
Erin Nelson (33:51):
Colleen, I have a question for you.
At Jessica's house, we talk alot about reflection and
mirroring, and so how do you dothat with children like, what
does it look like for kids thatyou know you've worked with,
when it comes to really comingalongside them as their parent?
How can you mirror their energyand reflect them?
Colleen Montague (34:14):
Really it's about what you said, that
reflection, so really justreflecting their words back to
them to show that you're reallywith them and you're listening.
And so if they're asking youabout if they can sleep in bed
with you tonight and you can sayyou want to sleep in bed with
me tonight, let's talk about it.
Where would you like to sleep?
Or what if I were to leave asleeping bag next to my bed?
(34:38):
How would that feel and see howthey respond back to you.
And then you can just come downto their level, mirror their
curiosity or their energy level.
Erin Nelson (34:49):
And you know, just like we have these we've been
talking about the waves of grief.
I mean we might have thosewaves and kids are having them
too, right, and so as theybounce up into like a bigger
energy, I just think about howwe can also match them as well
and just kind of enter into,kind of what they're going
through and and just reallybeing able to reflect and mirror
(35:13):
what they're experiencing andtheir grief and if they're
expressing sadness or fear orwhatever it is like really
coming inside of that and justbeing curious about what it
means for them and if it meansbringing our energy down into
where they are, that can reallyhelp them just feel like you're
(35:36):
with them.
Colleen Montague (35:37):
Yeah, it's like a balancing act in a way.
You know, sometimes you'regoing to set the thermostat or
the temperature of the room withyour energy, and I mean that in
a positive way, with yourcalmness, with that open
container ready to hold whatthey're bringing in.
But then sometimes, maybe, youlet them set the energy of the
room.
They're going to come in withthat natural big energy so you
(35:59):
meet them there, you know, withthe bigger, you know louder
voice, excitement or just thebig movements of their body.
But if they come in and they'rereally low, then yeah, you can
meet them there too.
So it's kind of like a balancereally.
Erin Nelson (36:13):
We've talked so much about how helpful it is
when others do that for us whenwe're grieving, that if you are
just having a moment whereyou're feeling just really low,
that whoever walks in the roomreally mirrors that, and how
helpful that can be.
And I know that's an approachwe have here at Jessica's House
(36:35):
is to try to mirror and reflectthat.
And you kind of say something Ireally have always loved, and
when you talk about how to comealongside someone who's grieving
.
Colleen Montague (36:47):
Yeah, I have coined this little term that
I've said a couple of times nowof just our secret recipe of
grief support here at Jessica'sHouse comes down to two things.
It's about being a companion tothose you're with.
You are not the expert of howthey're feeling or their grief,
(37:08):
but you want to understand it,you want to come alongside them,
and that second ingredient isreflection that you explained so
well, Erin, of just thatmirroring of the language, the
words they're using, theirenergy, their body language.
So, really, if you comealongside somebody with those
(37:29):
two intentions to be a companionand to reflect what they're
showing you, you're off to areally good start, yeah, and
sometimes our families.
Erin Nelson (37:38):
upport just may be just what they need and that
might be something that, um,that they can ask for when they
need it.
Colleen Montague (37:47):
Yeah, because I don't know that it's very
natural for our society tocompanion people well.
That takes a lot ofintentionality and wisdom, in a
way, and so we may not know todo that if someone doesn't teach
us how and what I mean by thatis how it would feel for them,
what they actually do want, whatthey need.
Erin Nelson (38:08):
Yeah, we're really good at cheering people up,
aren't we?
Brad Quillen (38:12):
And it's funny you say that that's not our natural
, because I know there's a fewpeople listening and they're
thinking well, where could Ibegin?
Like, what practically could Ido to start a conversation with
my kiddo?
Or I try, but they don't sayanything, or it's kind of like I
get stonewalled by my own kid.
We wanted to share somepractical ways that parents can
have those conversations, and so, Erin, do you want to share a
(38:34):
little bit about the "I wonder,I wish, I hope.
Erin Nelson (38:37):
Yeah, and this is just an activity that we kind of
talk about a little bit, aboutjust these three questions I
wonder, I wish, I hope.
And when you are talking toyour child, it's okay to just
express all the wonderings,right?
(38:58):
You know, I wonder, and thenour wishes, like what do you
wish could be different.
It's okay to talk about that,it's okay to just even just
express all of that.
You can do that by drawing apicture, just like I wonder, dot
dot dot, I wish dot dot dot.
And just like being able to putall of that like I wonder what
(39:20):
would have happened if theyfound a cure or they didn't die,
or, you know, sometimes it'slike I wish being able to say
what I wish, I wish I could justplay with you one more time,
you know, and then just endinglike with I hope, I hope that I
won't always feel the way I doin this moment, or that I'll
(39:43):
find a friend who can listen tome.
Whatever it is, it's just beingable to have those open-ended
discussions and just be able totalk to each other.
Colleen Montague (39:56):
And, brad, you mentioned about being
stonewalled by your child.
They may naturally lean intothat activity right out the gate
, or maybe they don't, and maybethat's not their natural
inclination.
But you can model it.
You can just think aloud.
I wonder what daddy would havethought of this.
It just offers them permissionand that modeling and maybe in
(40:17):
time they'll start to becomemore comfortable with that and
make those statements with you,those wonderings or those wishes
.
Brad Quillen (40:24):
And they might need to take a piece of paper
and you have to write the Iwonder dot dot dot.
And the next piece of paper,right, I wish dot dot dot.
Or, and then, I hope, on thethird piece of paper and give
them time with it.
Erin Nelson (40:36):
Absolutely.
Brad Quillen (40:37):
Cause it's not going to, not every kid's going
to going to jump with threeanswers right to those three
statements right away.
But again, some might draw,some might write novels, some
might just write a few words.
Right, I wish that the redlight lasted longer.
I wish I could, you know, haveone more cup of coffee with you
on.
You know, on the porch, allthese different things and I
hope, I hope I do feel bettersoon.
(40:58):
You know, in all these things,but it might take some time.
Erin Nelson (41:02):
Absolutely, and just any kind of wish for your
future.
You know any kind of wish,something that we know is, just
as our bodies know how to heal abroken bone, it knows how to
heal our broken heart.
So that trust for our future toknow that we have the capacity
to heal.
Brad Quillen (41:23):
Erin, Colleen, thanks for this today.
I sure appreciate the time andfor those of you out there,
thanks for listening.
If you have any questions orfuture show ideas, please email
us at info@ jessicashouse.
org, or for more resources, youcan always go to our website,
jessicashouse.
org.
Be sure to join us next timefor another episode of when
(41:43):
Grief Comes Home, where we'll bediscussing the changing seasons
and how it all ties to grief.
Until next time, we wish youwell.
Gary Shriver (41:56):
Jessica's House is a children's bereavement center
located in California's CentralValley since 2012.
We provide free peer supportfor children, teens, young
adults and their familiesgrieving a loss.
If you need grief-relatedsupport, please visit
jessicashouse.
org to download our freeresources and be sure to follow
(42:18):
Jessica's House on social media,and if you have any questions
or topics you'd like for us toexplore in future episodes, just
send us an email tojessicashouse.
org.
Thank you for joining us andwe'll see you next time, for
when Grief Comes Home.
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com