December 31, 2024 • 43 mins
Welcome to the When Grief Comes Home podcast. We're glad you're here. This podcast supports parents who are grieving a spouse, partner, or child while helping their children who are living through the loss of a parent or sibling. With personal grief stories and professional guidance, we offer parents practical tips for supporting their child who is grieving while caring for their own grief.
This episode supports parents who are making decisions about the funeral. It highlights how to involve your children, ensuring they feel secure and included. The team shares self-care tips, such as maintaining nutrition and hydration, which are often overlooked during stressful times.
We share insights on prioritizing rest, delegating tasks, and creating time for rest. It explores the financial and emotional hurdles you face when you are grieving, face, the importance of seeking community support, and the long-term benefits of grief support for parents and children.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello and welcome to when Grief Comes Home, a podcast
dedicated to parents livingthrough loss while supporting
their child.
Let's meet the team.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I'm Erin Nelson, founding executive director at.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
Jessica's House.
Hi, I'm Colleen Montague,program director for Jessica's
House and a licensed marriageand family therapist.
Speaker 4 (00:21):
Hi, I'm Brad Quillen and I'm the host of when Grief
Comes Home.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Now through this podcast, they'll share grief
resources and coping skills,heartfelt stories and insights
to support parents as they raisechildren who are grieving
Together.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
you'll find strength as we learn to live with loss
and find ways to heal.
Hello, hello, it's Brad fromJessica's house.
On today's episode, we'retalking about decision-making
after a death.
There are so many decisions andchoices we have to make
following the death.
One may never think about thoseuntil they're there, and that's
what we're going to talk abouttoday.
Well, hello Aaron, helloColleen, good to see you guys.
(01:03):
Hey, brad, today we are talkingabout decision making, and I
know there are so many thingsthat go into decisions post a
death, but even leading up infunerals Erin you and I were
talking about that earlier andeven towards the end of a death,
colleen that there are thingsthat we have to decide in this
whole process, but yet we mightnot have all of our faculties,
(01:27):
in some ways, to make so manydecisions.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
And you found yourself in the middle of that
after Tyler's death as well.
Yeah, there's nothing that canprepare you for all the
decisions that need to be made.
And when we think about someonedying, a lot of times and I
would say even most of the timethere are decisions that are
being made even before theirdeath.
And it could be, you know, ifsomeone's been sick for a long
(01:54):
time, maybe they're makingdecisions on treatment.
It could be end of life kindsof decisions with organ donation
of life kinds of decisions withorgan donation.
It could be just trying todecide some of those end of life
(02:14):
kinds of choices that you haveand whether or not like how many
measures to take to keepsomeone alive.
And so decisions even after youknow you're going into
decisions after a death and whenyou're grieving, but sometimes
you're already tired of makingdecisions when you get there.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
And even though you may have written those things
out and those choices and havethose conversations, when it
comes down to making some ofthose decisions at the end of
life, you may want to go againstwhat some of the prior
conversations were, becauseyou're just so torn.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
You're so torn and those decisions are so difficult
to make at a time when there'sso much distress, and so, as you
are faced with those, comingtogether with your family and
getting the advice of doctors, Ithink it's normal to like doubt
, you know like what, eventhough we all talked about this,
(03:08):
now that we're actually here,how do we do this, how do we do
this?
And it's just so understandableto waver and to wonder and to
be confused.
Speaker 4 (03:21):
And the decisions we're about to make are
permanent.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
They're permanent and they really matter and we're
doing our very best in thosemoments to make the best
decisions that we can.
And even if the loved one youknow has, like you said, they
may have their wishes and all ofthat, Sometimes it's hard to
even honor that because you maywant to just prolong in their
life, have them with you longer,and so those moments are really
(03:48):
tough.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
And sometimes, with the amount of stress that's
going on or the last couple ofmonths of treatment and all the
other things, or it was just anaccident and the trauma that's
involved in that, our judgmentsclouded and it's hard to think
straight, colleen.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Mm-hmm.
Yes, Brad, and some of thesedecisions you don't have a lot
of time to sit and process.
You know some you do have tomake pretty quickly, but the
ones that you can give some timeto, we would encourage you to
sit with those if you can.
Our judgment is so clouded,like you said, and so having a
(04:26):
little bit of space, maybeopportunities to process it with
somebody else, see what theirthoughts are, can help you in
your decision-making process.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
And sometimes, when we have those conversations, we
get even more mixed feelings andemotions.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
I'm thinking about coming together in families and
how siblings and parents andgrandparents and aunts and
uncles you know everybody mighthave different thoughts,
different life experiences thatthey bring into the room and how
we can make decisions duringthose times.
(05:04):
And some healthcare systems andhospitals have a really strong
palliative care team where youmight have a social worker that
you can talk with and that canhelp navigate some of those
pieces, and physicians and justa team of palliative care
(05:26):
professionals that can help withthat.
But it's always, it can always,you know, be very difficult and
some experiences are betterthan others.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
We've got to give ourselves grace because even
though we've had theseconversations and we've talked
about these and we've done thepower of attorneys and our last
choices and some of those things, and we still are so confused
sometimes and we realize thefinality of some of this.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Yeah, just heavy feeling of knowing that these
are big decisions that reallymatter to us.
And so, yeah, it's just tryingto wade through all of that and
(06:19):
make the very best decision youcan in the moment and then to
trust kind of the momentum ofthat and trust that you did
everything you could do with theinformation that you had.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
And there's the decisions we're talking about
right now, as people arelistening, are those realities
of before the death and some ofthose end of life decisions.
And in the midst of thatthere's the donor information
and the organ donation piece anda little bit later in the
podcast we're going to talkabout things after the death.
But we've heard people thathave had rough donation, organ
(06:53):
donation, seasons even thoughthey've been a donor.
What happens after that, oncethey make that decision?
And in some ways the decisionsare out of your hands because
the doctors in the facilitythey're setting up different
whatever you need to just getyou through moment by moment
during those times.
It can be prolonged quitelengthy.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
It can be, yeah, and kind of depending on the process
and all the differentcircumstances surrounding it.
And yeah, we've heard storiesand it's been really hard on
families and at the same time,I've heard a lot of inspiration
for families with the idea of ahero's journey and what that
(07:57):
means for a family and what agift it is to be there in that
moment and to know that theirlife was giving life.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
And you have the choice to be anonymous or be
known in the donor world andthey've shared that in group and
(08:30):
that they've been able to, someof them, physically make
contact with that person that'sreceived.
But some of them have justgotten notes and or been
recognized for that and theblessing that that's been, and
for some that that's not theirchoice either.
They would rather just beanonymous and and that's okay
too.
But people have have mentionedthat.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Yeah, I think about um with Tyler.
Um, just the notes I receivedfrom the donor organization that
we were part of and how muchthat meant to me and how I never
knew when I would get that inthe mail and um, but what it
meant to open up that envelopeand to just see in black and
white like this is who he helpedand that was um.
(09:13):
That was just a comfort and um,it just was kind of a
connection to him in some waysand it really um helped me.
Um, and I think of that often.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
Hey, erin, you just brought up Tyler's name and he
was your husband that was killedin a midair plane collision and
again that there was nodecisions right With that
reality and an accident.
But then there's the decisionsafter there's been a death and
we've said before around thehouse that it's like we're
planning a wedding in five orsix days to put a funeral
(09:46):
together.
You and I've helped tons andtons of people over the years
with funeral services andofficiate services and all those
things.
I don't think people realizehow much goes into a funeral
until you're putting onetogether.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
It's such a surprise to be faced all of a sudden.
You're, you know, just grievingand kind of reeling from the
experience that you just had andthen you realize like you have
to plan this, like kind of partyin some ways.
You know this big event and youwant it to reflect your person.
You know, and I know we talkedabout that so much during our
(10:20):
funeral episode, but to be facedwith so many decisions that we
have, you know, after alreadymaking so many decisions, it
really matters.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
Aaron, you just mentioned funerals and
ceremonies and we did an episodeon number six where we talk
about a lot of those pieces andall the decisions that have to
be made.
There are things that go intoputting that ceremony together
but you might not want aceremony, it might just be a
gravesite, it might be a largefuneral.
All those things private, openit up.
(10:58):
All those decisions have to bemade in just a short amount of
time.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Yeah, brad, you're right.
There's just so many decisionsand you may have known what your
person would have wanted if youhad ever talked about it
beforehand.
Or maybe you hadn't talkedabout it and you have no idea
what their final wishes would be.
And so what do you do with that?
You know whether they wanted tobe buried or cremated, and so
(11:23):
this is where you're going to dothe best that you can.
You can seek opinions fromothers if you want.
If there's somebody who is alsoreally close to them that may
have known, you can process that.
Maybe if your kids are older,maybe you could get them
involved in the decision.
But at this point, really, thefuneral is to honor the person
(11:47):
who died, but also in a way thatsupports those who are still
here and what they need.
And so if you need it to besmaller, because you know that
would be better for you and thekids, then that's okay.
If you want it to be a larger,open up to the community, that's
(12:07):
okay.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
So, colleen, I'm so glad you just talked about if
your kids are at a certain ageto help with decisions and that
age is different for every kid.
But there's also the reality,erin, of just letting kids know
what's happening and what'sgoing on with not only before
the death, but even after, likewhat's happening, because so
many things are being decidedand kids sometimes get left on
(12:31):
the sideline of that.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
It's so true, Brad and I'm just thinking about how
we've talked so much about justtelling kids what's next and
also tell them what's now.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
Right, what's happening?
Speaker 2 (12:44):
What is happening right now and if you're trying
to make decisions on where tohave the funeral, whether you're
doing cremation or burial, whatcasket to choose, all of those
pieces, being able to just say,hey, I'm making some really big
decisions on this and you can,like Colleen said, if they're
(13:08):
old enough, you can include themin some of those decisions.
But just communicating thatthere are so many decisions that
are going to be made and asyou're making those decisions,
will they be going with you ifyou're going to the funeral home
, will they be staying home witha family member, whatever it is
, as you are communicating toyour kids, letting them know
(13:30):
during this time that is souncertain and something has
happened to them that is totallyout of their control, whatever
you can do to give them littlebits of control throughout their
day and also to make sure theyknow what's next, who's coming
over, what kinds of decisionsthat they'll be making, and just
(13:52):
keeping them involved.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
It's interesting you say that, because I think kids
are at home and the next thingthey know is there's all these
people in their house, somepeople they know, some people
they don't.
And then, as you and I'vewitnessed over the years of
doing funerals and services,there's food everywhere and kids
are like what is going on?
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Yeah, there's just so many changes and many times you
know there is a lot moreactivity than they're accustomed
to and just being able toexplain that and take them along
and also letting them feel likethey can have some say in that
and we've talked before aboutmaking sure they have a safe
space they can go to that's kindof off limits and just to keep
(14:36):
as much normalcy as possible.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
And some people are sitting there listening and
thinking well, how long afterthe death should the funeral be?
Is there a magic number?
Of days and you and I have doneservices three, four days after
a death with families and we'vedone them three, four weeks
after.
And it's different foreverybody because there's some
external circumstances for some,but I don't know that there's a
magic window.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Right, and as we're talking about decision making
anytime, we have a little bitmore time to make a decision, it
can help us a little bit, andso I'm just have a personal
opinion about having a littlemore time, just because it helps
you just settle a little bitand think through just the
(15:26):
surrounding circumstances andwhat needs to be done, and it
might help you to have a littlemore clarity if you have a
little more time.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
To add to your point, erin take really good care of
yourself during this time too.
That's the one thing that youcan do for yourself that would
be in your favor, with allthat's against you in terms of
the shock and the lethargy, butthose simple acts we've talked
about staying hydrated, restingyour body.
(15:56):
I know sleep is probably notcoming very easy, but can you
lie down for five minutes, takethat walk.
Any little things you can do tokind of fill your tank a little
bit, even just eating someprotein, even if it's not much,
but just something to fuel yourbody those can all help you with
those mental decisions thatyou're having to make.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Yeah, I'm glad you're talking about this, colleen,
because, as we keep saying, justlisten to your body.
And one of the best advice Igot was, if you get sleepy, just
take a nap, because your sleepis disrupted at night when you
feel that fatigue and thatsleepiness.
(16:38):
If you can go lay down, likeyou said, for five minutes and
not push through and you have toalmost teach people around you
that rest is a priority and thatis how you heal and to just be
able to say, hey, I just need amoment and to have a safe space
to go into that you won't bedisturbed.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
And, like you said, teaching people.
There's nothing wrong withsaying I don't know, yet Let me
think about it.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
It's your face with all of these decisions.
If you don't know, it's okay totake more time.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Yeah, and you're modeling that for your kids too.
They're going to see thatyou're giving yourself some time
to process it and think itthrough, and that's good for
them to see.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
Yeah, and there's people that are listening right
now that are thinking I have somuch to do or in that season I
had so much to do, and thereality is you do, you do, and
you're probably hearing astatement from people that are
in and out of your house orclose to you that are saying if
you need anything, let me know,take them up on it.
Start listing out the thingsyou need done and start giving
(17:42):
out assignments.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Exactly?
Are there any decisions you canoffload to somebody else?
Speaker 4 (17:47):
Errands watching the kiddos cleaning the house.
And there's something that Ithink is so powerful is you got
to have your own space in thisweek or two in between the death
and the funeral, to wherenobody goes, and you just have
your own private space.
And, aaron, you've spoke ofthis before, of just having that
, that area in the house.
That's just for the family, andI mean the immediate family.
(18:08):
It's not the grandparents, it'snot cousins, it's those that
live in the house, that's theirspace and their space only.
The other thing I would sayabout taking care of yourself is
there's some people that aredrains and you need someone to
be the door monitor.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Yeah, and Colleen and I have had these conversations
about kind of we had an analogyabout a house and we had an
analogy and about kind of like,you have these rooms in a home
that you have and not everybodygets to be in your sacred space.
So let's just say, in yourbedroom it's only you and it's
(18:43):
only your immediate family andit's only your kids and they get
to be there.
But just even as an analogy tothink about that, not everybody
gets to have access to everydecision that you're making,
right?
And Colleen, what are someother rooms in that house?
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Yeah.
So I would imagine the kitchenis the next most sacred space in
a home, and so those are forthose people in your life that
are directly connected to you interms of your support system.
So maybe it's your best friend,it's your sister, sister-in-law,
those that you're really closewith, that you trust to help
(19:23):
with these decisions of thehouse and with your family
supporting you and the kidsright now.
And then the next outer, youknow, kind of sacred space in
the home would be the livingroom, for example, and so those
are maybe for your friends, alittle bit more distant
relatives perhaps, and thenyou've got your front porch and
(19:43):
that's where your neighbors are,if you're not super close, but
people who want to offer support, and so, metaphorically
speaking, you know they get tobe on the porch but they don't
get to be in your bedroom withyou, they don't get to be in
your kitchen with you.
And so, thinking about it likethat, think to yourself okay, so
who would be right next to mein my bedroom?
(20:03):
Who would I want in my kitchenand living room and porch?
Speaker 2 (20:08):
And when we're talking about that, the people
that are in the kitchen with you, like your sister, like someone
really close to you, they getto be the ones that communicate
to the people that are in theliving room and they get to be
the ones that communicate to theone that is on the front porch.
And so all that burden of thatevery day, those decisions of
(20:35):
that every day, those decisions,all of just the hard part of
living in those early days ofgrief, they get to take the kind
of be the buffer for you alittle bit, so you're not the
only person that is having to doall of this by yourself.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
Yeah, you have support and sometimes it's just
hard to ask for that.
But I appreciate that analogyand the figurative way to look
at that of how those innercircles and putting in a room
analogy makes a lot of sense forpeople listening here in the
first part of the episode.
(21:07):
We're going to take a breakhere in a moment and come back
and talk about what are some ofthose short-term decisions we
got to face.
What are some of thoselong-term decisions, what are
some of those things we need tobe thinking through and
acquiring answers to?
But I know if you wouldn't mindjust sharing a little bit.
After Tyler died, there weredecisions that you didn't
realize you even made that younow had to make on your own, and
things that Tyler did that youstarted to gradually realize.
(21:31):
These are now decisions I haveto start making because Tyler's
no longer with me and so can youshare a little bit about that,
and then we'll go to break andcome back and talk about some of
those other decisions down theroad.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Yeah, and as you think about just like wife and
husband roles and partner roles,you think about that, sometimes
you don't even realize that oneperson is just naturally doing
this part of life and the otherperson is doing another.
And with Tyler and I, weactually just worked together
every day.
We had a family farmingbusiness and so our every day
(22:03):
was together and there weredecisions that he kind of
naturally made business-wise andthat were kind of in his court
and some that were in mine, andso those the business kept going
after he died and so I wastaking on some of his
decision-making when I maybe wasjust in one role.
(22:23):
I had to expand that role andstart to make decisions and
actually needed informationabout how to make those
decisions.
So it took me a little bitoutside of what I was doing
every day.
So those were everydaydecisions that I needed to make.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
And, speaking of decisions, people often ask us
well, how long should I wait tomake big decisions?
And so when we come back fromthe break, we're going to kind
of jump in there and start withthat, because that is something
we get asked often how long do Ihave to wait before I decide?
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Jessica's House is a children's bereavement center
located in California's CentralValley since 2012.
Jessica's House provides freepeer support for children, teens
, young adults and theirfamilies grieving a loss.
If you need grief-relatedsupport, please visit
jessicashouseorg to download ourfree resources and be sure to
(23:17):
follow Jessica's House on socialmedia.
And if you have any questionsor topics you'd like us to
explore in a future episode,just send us an email at info at
jessicashouseorg.
Speaker 4 (23:28):
Well, hey, as we come back, we wanted to talk about
timeline and when do we makedecisions at info at
jessicashouseorg.
Well, hey, as we come back, wewanted to talk about timeline
and when do we make decisionsand how long is too long, how
short is too short?
Aaron Colleen, we get askedthis question about when do I do
this, or when do I move on, orall these different short-term
and long-term decisions that getmade.
And, aaron, we've been asked isit six months, Is it nine
(23:51):
months?
What about a year?
I think I'll be good after ayear.
What would you say to thosethat have that very question as
they listen?
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Well, I think when you're grieving, especially as
we've been talking today about aspouse or a partner, you just
want to feel better.
So when you think about whatmight give you some relief, you
want it to be a year, you wantit to be six months, you want to
get through the holidays orwhatever it is, but we don't
(24:19):
really know how we'll feel andsome of the circumstances
surrounding a death.
It could be that you know somepeople are really busy with like
we talked about earlier somepeople and are really busy with
like we talked about earlierfamily business or working with
their kids, activities orwhatever it might be, and there
may be something that delaysyour grief and illness of
(24:41):
another family member orsomething else.
So some of our listeners mayhave heard a guideline like you
should wait just you know a yearbefore you make any big
decisions.
But everyone's different andyou know you never know how
you'll feel and maybe thatsecond year is one that you are
(25:05):
just in a different place inyour grief where you need to
still give it some more timebefore you make big decisions.
Something that we know withchildren who are grieving is the
more you can keep yoursurroundings the same, the
better, and I'm thinking aboutjust even the topic of moving.
If you can delay decisions,that would add a significant
(25:32):
amount of change to your child'severyday environment and even
your everyday environment.
If you can keep it the same noteverybody can, but if you can
keep it the same for as long aspossible, that's good.
But I would also say that somefamilies have taught us that
they were dreaming about movingand planning on moving, and the
(25:54):
kids were all on board with thatand that was a dream that they
had and they were already in theplanning process.
So maybe six months, the movesix months later was one that
they needed to make and that'sokay.
But there are so many decisionspractical decisions with
clothing and belongings and theperson's car and all kinds of
(26:17):
decisions that you make andthere's no timeline for that.
Just like grief has no timeline, there's no timeline for that.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
An unfortunate reality to add on to that, erin,
is that you may not have achoice.
You know, financially there'sbeen some big changes in your
house and so you may have tomove.
And if that's the case, whatcan you keep consistent?
Can the kids still go to thesame school by chance?
Can they have the same bedroomfurniture still?
Can you still keep the samefurniture of the house and move
(26:45):
that over to the new spot?
So just if you're not able tostay in the same places for all
the different reasons, what canyou keep consistent?
Speaker 2 (26:54):
I like that.
Just thinking about yourfavorite chair maybe you have
coffee in it every morning.
If you can keep that consistent, whatever it is that you can,
just the most consistency, thatwhat we know and what research
really shows with children whoare.
What we know and what researchreally shows with children who
are, who've had trauma and whoare grieving, is that
(27:15):
consistency can really helpstabilize them.
Speaker 4 (27:16):
And I hear you saying that there's no set time,
because we do get asked,specifically six months a year.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Yeah, no timeline for grief, no timeline for big
decisions.
Not to you know you try not tomake them right away.
Big decisions, not to, you knowyou try not to make them right
away.
Speaker 4 (27:34):
But giving it some time, the time that is really
right for you.
And so what if someone that'slistening to you is sitting
there thinking, boy, I wish Iwould have heard this before I
made the decisions.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Yeah, and like we said earlier, you know,
decisions that we make are we dothe best we can in the moment
with the information that wehave, so there's never any shame
that you didn't know something.
And is it Maya Angelou thatsaid when I knew better, I did
better you?
Know, and so we get informationand we learn, and there's so
(28:02):
much that we would rather it'sjust part of being human right.
We make decisions that we wishwe could change.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
Yeah, and there's those decisions that we want to
take a few minutes and talkabout some of those things that
are short-term decisions, andthen there's some of those
long-term decisions.
And so, erin, when we speak ofsome of those short-term
decisions, what are some ofthose things that we can give
the listener some ideas about insome of those pieces?
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Yeah, I'm thinking about short-term decisions and
this is kind of the businessside after someone dies, and I'm
thinking about some of thepieces that have to do with a
checking account, a bank account, you know, when you're thinking
about insurance and being ableto find support on a financial
(28:52):
level.
And what does that look like?
Because there are financialdecisions to be made and when
someone dies, you oftentimesneed a death certificate in
order to close an account orclose a credit card, whatever
those decisions are.
In those kind of business,parts of life are, and we always
(29:16):
recommend like five to sixdeath certificates.
Many times, whether that's aninsurance company or a bank,
they'll want an original deathcertificate.
Those are things we don't wantto think about, but it's really
important.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Yeah, and do you know if they keep the death
certificate, or is it justsomething you show them?
They keep it.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Okay, sometimes they give it back.
Okay, but sometimes you maynever.
Yeah, everybody's different.
They'll keep it on file.
Sometimes they'll give you backthe original, but, yeah, it
just depends, and some peopleare taking copies more than they
used to.
Okay, so it's just good to getextra when in doubt.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
Yeah, so you don't have to make that trip again.
Exactly, that's another goodpoint too is, you know, with the
bank accounts, you knowsometimes you need to decide on
a second person to add to it now, and so having those
conversations ahead of time orthinking about it now, if
there's somebody you need to addto accounts, they need to go
with you.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
So setting up those opportunities, hey, colleen, as
you were talking, it made methink about there are those
death benefits that sometimesare attached to our employment.
And how does one go aboutfinding out about those, because
sometimes they're in the fineprint.
We know we had an insurancepolicy for both of us and we did
that many years ago, but thenthere was a job change and now
(30:34):
how do I find out about maybethere was a small death benefit
through an employer?
Speaker 3 (30:38):
Yeah, that's a great point, and the best thing to do
would be to reach out to yourcompany's HR or your spouse's
company, their HR representative.
They're equipped andwell-versed in how to help you
access those benefits.
If it wasn't through thecompany you know, you can always
call in and that's an area thatyou can have a support person
(31:01):
come alongside you for to makethose phone calls and gather the
paperwork needed for those.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Something else I'm thinking about is even some
credit cards offer benefits, andso if someone dies, sometimes
there's insurance that isoffered for credit cards that
can pay the bill for you and so,yeah, like you said, brad, some
(31:27):
of that fine print is somethingwe would have never thought of.
Speaker 4 (31:29):
Right Right, we don't know until we start looking
into some of that stuff and youspoke about.
You were talking about jobs andyou might be thinking of, well,
I have to replace their income,like he worked or she worked
and I was home, or vice versa,and all those pieces, and so
long-term decisions about whatam I going to do and we've
talked about the home, but theremight be job change for you as
you listen to this, or goingback to school, to getting more
(31:51):
education, because I have toprovide more, and so some of
those longer term decisions arecoming into effect as we think
about planning for the future aswell.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
And it's never too late to acquire a financial
advisor, you know, even if youhaven't used one in the past, it
might be a nice time to getsupport in that area as you're
making these future plans.
And something that I recentlylearned actually is that
certified financial plannersthey actually have 10 hours a
year, that they offer pro bonowork and so again worth an ask.
(32:21):
Reach out to one that you'veheard you know that you trust in
the community maybe that you'veheard from others and ask them
if they have any more pro bonohours available for you this
year and get connected to one,as they they're really well
versed in all of these type ofdecisions and can come alongside
you really well.
Yeah, I was thinking.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
After Tyler died we had a wonderful accountant that
just came alongside me and I hadto make a decision about even
buying a car and he just went tothe car dealership with me and
helped me so much just to make agood decision on that next car
that we had to buy in our family.
And so sometimes, you know, asI was making financial decisions
(33:06):
, I was just reaching out tokind of professionals that
became kind of friends also andit's nice to have those people
around you that have theexpertise.
You know I'm not an accountantbut I can find one, you know,
and talk to one, and so it wasreally helpful to have those
people in my community and in mycircle to help me make some
decisions.
Speaker 4 (33:27):
And if someone's listening that doesn't have that
developed circle, what can theydo to find some of those
resources and some of thoseprofessionals that can help?
Speaker 2 (33:55):
And just really just trying to find somebody that you
know is reputable and I likethe idea what you said, colleen,
about the certified financialplanner, but being able to find
someone that has that expertise.
Speaker 4 (34:09):
And we know that the decisions, those short-term
decisions, some of the long-termdecisions we've been talking
about, are taxing.
We're exhausted from all theemotion.
We're exhausted from decisionsthat we had to make and now
we're tackling new tasks that wedidn't envision us taking on
because of the death Erin.
We often talk about long-termsupport, that someone needs,
(34:31):
long-term support in grief.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
And can you just share a little bit about the
importance of that and theneed're talking about today,
just to know that you needsupport today and always.
You know this is you're in amuch more vulnerable place than
you once were when you had twopeople in your home and you were
making decisions together andso finding that support.
(35:11):
I wanna just say for Jessica'sHouse, we have extra resources
on our website, jessicashouseorg.
You can go to the resources tab.
But also there may be a griefcenter in your local area when
you, if you go to the NationalAlliance for Children's Grief,
there is a search bar therewhere you can look to see if
(35:33):
there is a grief center in yourarea.
So reaching out.
I think what we're alwaystalking about is how we hear
that so often grievers feelalone and anything that we can
do to lessen that.
That could be a local griefshare in your local church.
There are grief share groupsthat are offered.
(35:55):
It could be an online supportgroup and finding someone that
helps you feel less alone andfinding that support and
planning that for your long-term.
Speaker 4 (36:07):
Because we need to support ourselves and find
support from others and, likeyou said, you can go to the
National Alliance for Children'sGrief or churches and grief
share.
Hospices have groups andthere's a number of great
hospices around the country.
The other thing is we need tosupport ourselves because we
still got kids at home for thosethat are listening and there's
(36:29):
things that and decisions thatare coming that we need to make
with the kiddos in mind andtrying to avoid as much change
as we can as you spoke aboutthat a little earlier, trying to
keep things as simple and asroutine as possible.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Yeah, Keeping the consistency is so important, and
, as you're talking with yourkids, and as you're talking with
your kids, what happens when achild loses a parent is they can
really just feel that sense ofloss of control.
(37:04):
You know so much of the time.
Whatever happened to them, theynever wanted that to happen and
so to help them just be informedabout the decisions that
they're making and you know itcan be so confusing for a child
to have these brand new emotionsthat they've never had before.
So, as we think about this, wewant to be able to talk to our
child, and really somethingColleen talks about so often is
(37:28):
to like nothing can replace yourpresence with your child, right
?
So you're supporting yourself,but you're also with your child,
and having less support in yourchild's home without having the
physical presence of yourspouse or partner means that
they need, as hard as it is,they need more of you and other
(37:49):
trusted adults in their life,and so we talk about just that
physical proximity of closeness,being able to listen to their
questions over and over, even asyou're processing different
decisions, and as they may have,you know, big feelings and
(38:10):
emotions about decisions thatare being made, and not only did
they have no control over theirparents' death, but they also
maybe have no real control andneither do you over some
decisions that maybe you don'twant to make but you're forced
to make because of this death.
And so being able to say toyour child like you can be
really mad about this and youremotions, they don't scare me.
(38:32):
I'm here for that.
Whenever it is that you havethis emotion we've been talking
about in different episodes, asexpress it, the way you feel it,
If it's intense and it's coming, it's inside of your child and
they feel the intensity of thatemotion, being able to express
it in the moment.
And also with you being able tobe a container for your child,
(38:57):
not being afraid of it, butyou're there with them in it as
they express deep disappointmentand anger that there are
decisions that they never wantedto that are affecting them.
Speaker 4 (39:08):
Right, because there's a reality of I no longer
have my spouse to be able torun this errand or pick a kid up
from practice or still beinvolved in this social piece
that was a part of our life andthat's a reality that we have to
cut back because there's onlyso much of me to go around and
there might be a vacation thatwas on the horizon.
(39:29):
That's no longer, and so tohave conversations with our
kiddos about here's what'shappening and here's the reality
of you know, dad's not here ormom's not here, I can't do
everything we were doing.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
One thing that you can do for your kids is help
them to feel seen and just byreiterating you're really mad
that we can't go on that trip.
You are so mad that we have toswitch schools.
I get that, I see that.
And just reiterating thefeelings that they're showing
you about it, to show that yousee it, you get it.
(40:01):
It doesn't change the reality,but at least you understand.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
And to be able to have that conversation to even
add to that is like I'm reallymad too.
Conversation to even add tothat is like I'm really mad too,
Like this is not how I imaginedour life would go in our family
.
And I'll never forget hearing amom just talk about how she
just said you know we're justgoing to cry, you know we're
going to do it together, we'regoing to be mad together and
(40:26):
just normalizing all thoseemotions that adults and kids
have and to do that together isokay and just to let that be
whatever it is, as you'refeeling it, and all of the
disappointment or whatever it isthat you're feeling after these
big decisions have to be made.
Speaker 4 (40:44):
And, colleen, I appreciate the way you said that
, because the child is heard andnot just blown off in a sense.
Not that that's the goal ofparents, but it's like I just
can't, you know, hold anotheremotion, but to really let them
be heard.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
Another reality is that you may not know, and so
you can share that with them.
I don't know the answer to thatyet.
I'm working on it and I'll letyou know as soon as I do, and so
if they know that, they cantrust you're going to keep them
in the loop as best you can.
There is some safety in therefor the kiddos, and you know.
(41:20):
Just again, I want to reiteratewhat Erin said so well earlier
that throughout this entireprocess, with all of these
decisions you're faced with,just know that you might have
some regret later on as you havea little bit more clarity, but
really just go back to the factthat you had a lot of decisions
(41:41):
to make, really hard things thatyou've likely never had to do
before, and so you did the bestthat you could with what you
knew at the time, and so pleasejust offer yourself that
permission now and in the comingyears.
Speaker 4 (41:57):
Be sure to visit jessicashouseorg for more grief
resources and if you have otherquestions or topic for show
ideas, let us know at info atjessicashouseorg.
Be sure to join us for anotherepisode of when Grief Comes Home
.
Until then, we wish you well.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
Jessica's House is a children's bereavement center
located in California's CentralValley since 2012.
We provide free peer supportfor children, teens, young
adults and their familiesgrieving a loss young adults and
their families grieving a loss.
If you need grief-relatedsupport, please visit
(42:38):
jessicashouseorg to download ourfree resources and be sure to
follow Jessica's House on socialmedia.
And if you have any questionsor topics you'd like for us to
explore in future episodes, justsend us an email to
jessicashouseorg.
Thank you for joining us andwe'll see you next time, for
when Grief Comes Home.
Hello and welcome to when Grief Comes Home, a podcast
dedicated to parents livingthrough loss while supporting
their child.
Let's meet the team.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I'm Erin Nelson, founding executive director at.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
Jessica's House.
Hi, I'm Colleen Montague,program director for Jessica's
House and a licensed marriageand family therapist.
Speaker 4 (00:21):
Hi, I'm Brad Quillen and I'm the host of when Grief
Comes Home.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Now through this podcast, they'll share grief
resources and coping skills,heartfelt stories and insights
to support parents as they raisechildren who are grieving
Together.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
you'll find strength as we learn to live with loss
and find ways to heal.
Hello, hello, it's Brad fromJessica's house.
On today's episode, we'retalking about decision-making
after a death.
There are so many decisions andchoices we have to make
following the death.
One may never think about thoseuntil they're there, and that's
what we're going to talk abouttoday.
Well, hello Aaron, helloColleen, good to see you guys.
(01:03):
Hey, brad, today we are talkingabout decision making, and I
know there are so many thingsthat go into decisions post a
death, but even leading up infunerals Erin you and I were
talking about that earlier andeven towards the end of a death,
colleen that there are thingsthat we have to decide in this
whole process, but yet we mightnot have all of our faculties,
(01:27):
in some ways, to make so manydecisions.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
And you found yourself in the middle of that
after Tyler's death as well.
Yeah, there's nothing that canprepare you for all the
decisions that need to be made.
And when we think about someonedying, a lot of times and I
would say even most of the timethere are decisions that are
being made even before theirdeath.
And it could be, you know, ifsomeone's been sick for a long
(01:54):
time, maybe they're makingdecisions on treatment.
It could be end of life kindsof decisions with organ donation
of life kinds of decisions withorgan donation.
It could be just trying todecide some of those end of life
(02:14):
kinds of choices that you haveand whether or not like how many
measures to take to keepsomeone alive.
And so decisions even after youknow you're going into
decisions after a death and whenyou're grieving, but sometimes
you're already tired of makingdecisions when you get there.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
And even though you may have written those things
out and those choices and havethose conversations, when it
comes down to making some ofthose decisions at the end of
life, you may want to go againstwhat some of the prior
conversations were, becauseyou're just so torn.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
You're so torn and those decisions are so difficult
to make at a time when there'sso much distress, and so, as you
are faced with those, comingtogether with your family and
getting the advice of doctors, Ithink it's normal to like doubt
, you know like what, eventhough we all talked about this,
(03:08):
now that we're actually here,how do we do this, how do we do
this?
And it's just so understandableto waver and to wonder and to
be confused.
Speaker 4 (03:21):
And the decisions we're about to make are
permanent.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
They're permanent and they really matter and we're
doing our very best in thosemoments to make the best
decisions that we can.
And even if the loved one youknow has, like you said, they
may have their wishes and all ofthat, Sometimes it's hard to
even honor that because you maywant to just prolong in their
life, have them with you longer,and so those moments are really
(03:48):
tough.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
And sometimes, with the amount of stress that's
going on or the last couple ofmonths of treatment and all the
other things, or it was just anaccident and the trauma that's
involved in that, our judgmentsclouded and it's hard to think
straight, colleen.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Mm-hmm.
Yes, Brad, and some of thesedecisions you don't have a lot
of time to sit and process.
You know some you do have tomake pretty quickly, but the
ones that you can give some timeto, we would encourage you to
sit with those if you can.
Our judgment is so clouded,like you said, and so having a
(04:26):
little bit of space, maybeopportunities to process it with
somebody else, see what theirthoughts are, can help you in
your decision-making process.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
And sometimes, when we have those conversations, we
get even more mixed feelings andemotions.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
I'm thinking about coming together in families and
how siblings and parents andgrandparents and aunts and
uncles you know everybody mighthave different thoughts,
different life experiences thatthey bring into the room and how
we can make decisions duringthose times.
(05:04):
And some healthcare systems andhospitals have a really strong
palliative care team where youmight have a social worker that
you can talk with and that canhelp navigate some of those
pieces, and physicians and justa team of palliative care
(05:26):
professionals that can help withthat.
But it's always, it can always,you know, be very difficult and
some experiences are betterthan others.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
We've got to give ourselves grace because even
though we've had theseconversations and we've talked
about these and we've done thepower of attorneys and our last
choices and some of those things, and we still are so confused
sometimes and we realize thefinality of some of this.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Yeah, just heavy feeling of knowing that these
are big decisions that reallymatter to us.
And so, yeah, it's just tryingto wade through all of that and
(06:19):
make the very best decision youcan in the moment and then to
trust kind of the momentum ofthat and trust that you did
everything you could do with theinformation that you had.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
And there's the decisions we're talking about
right now, as people arelistening, are those realities
of before the death and some ofthose end of life decisions.
And in the midst of thatthere's the donor information
and the organ donation piece anda little bit later in the
podcast we're going to talkabout things after the death.
But we've heard people thathave had rough donation, organ
(06:53):
donation, seasons even thoughthey've been a donor.
What happens after that, oncethey make that decision?
And in some ways the decisionsare out of your hands because
the doctors in the facilitythey're setting up different
whatever you need to just getyou through moment by moment
during those times.
It can be prolonged quitelengthy.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
It can be, yeah, and kind of depending on the process
and all the differentcircumstances surrounding it.
And yeah, we've heard storiesand it's been really hard on
families and at the same time,I've heard a lot of inspiration
for families with the idea of ahero's journey and what that
(07:57):
means for a family and what agift it is to be there in that
moment and to know that theirlife was giving life.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
And you have the choice to be anonymous or be
known in the donor world andthey've shared that in group and
(08:30):
that they've been able to, someof them, physically make
contact with that person that'sreceived.
But some of them have justgotten notes and or been
recognized for that and theblessing that that's been, and
for some that that's not theirchoice either.
They would rather just beanonymous and and that's okay
too.
But people have have mentionedthat.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Yeah, I think about um with Tyler.
Um, just the notes I receivedfrom the donor organization that
we were part of and how muchthat meant to me and how I never
knew when I would get that inthe mail and um, but what it
meant to open up that envelopeand to just see in black and
white like this is who he helpedand that was um.
(09:13):
That was just a comfort and um,it just was kind of a
connection to him in some waysand it really um helped me.
Um, and I think of that often.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
Hey, erin, you just brought up Tyler's name and he
was your husband that was killedin a midair plane collision and
again that there was nodecisions right With that
reality and an accident.
But then there's the decisionsafter there's been a death and
we've said before around thehouse that it's like we're
planning a wedding in five orsix days to put a funeral
(09:46):
together.
You and I've helped tons andtons of people over the years
with funeral services andofficiate services and all those
things.
I don't think people realizehow much goes into a funeral
until you're putting onetogether.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
It's such a surprise to be faced all of a sudden.
You're, you know, just grievingand kind of reeling from the
experience that you just had andthen you realize like you have
to plan this, like kind of partyin some ways.
You know this big event and youwant it to reflect your person.
You know, and I know we talkedabout that so much during our
(10:20):
funeral episode, but to be facedwith so many decisions that we
have, you know, after alreadymaking so many decisions, it
really matters.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
Aaron, you just mentioned funerals and
ceremonies and we did an episodeon number six where we talk
about a lot of those pieces andall the decisions that have to
be made.
There are things that go intoputting that ceremony together
but you might not want aceremony, it might just be a
gravesite, it might be a largefuneral.
All those things private, openit up.
(10:58):
All those decisions have to bemade in just a short amount of
time.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Yeah, brad, you're right.
There's just so many decisionsand you may have known what your
person would have wanted if youhad ever talked about it
beforehand.
Or maybe you hadn't talkedabout it and you have no idea
what their final wishes would be.
And so what do you do with that?
You know whether they wanted tobe buried or cremated, and so
(11:23):
this is where you're going to dothe best that you can.
You can seek opinions fromothers if you want.
If there's somebody who is alsoreally close to them that may
have known, you can process that.
Maybe if your kids are older,maybe you could get them
involved in the decision.
But at this point, really, thefuneral is to honor the person
(11:47):
who died, but also in a way thatsupports those who are still
here and what they need.
And so if you need it to besmaller, because you know that
would be better for you and thekids, then that's okay.
If you want it to be a larger,open up to the community, that's
(12:07):
okay.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
So, colleen, I'm so glad you just talked about if
your kids are at a certain ageto help with decisions and that
age is different for every kid.
But there's also the reality,erin, of just letting kids know
what's happening and what'sgoing on with not only before
the death, but even after, likewhat's happening, because so
many things are being decidedand kids sometimes get left on
(12:31):
the sideline of that.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
It's so true, Brad and I'm just thinking about how
we've talked so much about justtelling kids what's next and
also tell them what's now.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
Right, what's happening?
Speaker 2 (12:44):
What is happening right now and if you're trying
to make decisions on where tohave the funeral, whether you're
doing cremation or burial, whatcasket to choose, all of those
pieces, being able to just say,hey, I'm making some really big
decisions on this and you can,like Colleen said, if they're
(13:08):
old enough, you can include themin some of those decisions.
But just communicating thatthere are so many decisions that
are going to be made and asyou're making those decisions,
will they be going with you ifyou're going to the funeral home
, will they be staying home witha family member, whatever it is
, as you are communicating toyour kids, letting them know
(13:30):
during this time that is souncertain and something has
happened to them that is totallyout of their control, whatever
you can do to give them littlebits of control throughout their
day and also to make sure theyknow what's next, who's coming
over, what kinds of decisionsthat they'll be making, and just
(13:52):
keeping them involved.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
It's interesting you say that, because I think kids
are at home and the next thingthey know is there's all these
people in their house, somepeople they know, some people
they don't.
And then, as you and I'vewitnessed over the years of
doing funerals and services,there's food everywhere and kids
are like what is going on?
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Yeah, there's just so many changes and many times you
know there is a lot moreactivity than they're accustomed
to and just being able toexplain that and take them along
and also letting them feel likethey can have some say in that
and we've talked before aboutmaking sure they have a safe
space they can go to that's kindof off limits and just to keep
(14:36):
as much normalcy as possible.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
And some people are sitting there listening and
thinking well, how long afterthe death should the funeral be?
Is there a magic number?
Of days and you and I have doneservices three, four days after
a death with families and we'vedone them three, four weeks
after.
And it's different foreverybody because there's some
external circumstances for some,but I don't know that there's a
magic window.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Right, and as we're talking about decision making
anytime, we have a little bitmore time to make a decision, it
can help us a little bit, andso I'm just have a personal
opinion about having a littlemore time, just because it helps
you just settle a little bitand think through just the
(15:26):
surrounding circumstances andwhat needs to be done, and it
might help you to have a littlemore clarity if you have a
little more time.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
To add to your point, erin take really good care of
yourself during this time too.
That's the one thing that youcan do for yourself that would
be in your favor, with allthat's against you in terms of
the shock and the lethargy, butthose simple acts we've talked
about staying hydrated, restingyour body.
(15:56):
I know sleep is probably notcoming very easy, but can you
lie down for five minutes, takethat walk.
Any little things you can do tokind of fill your tank a little
bit, even just eating someprotein, even if it's not much,
but just something to fuel yourbody those can all help you with
those mental decisions thatyou're having to make.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Yeah, I'm glad you're talking about this, colleen,
because, as we keep saying, justlisten to your body.
And one of the best advice Igot was, if you get sleepy, just
take a nap, because your sleepis disrupted at night when you
feel that fatigue and thatsleepiness.
(16:38):
If you can go lay down, likeyou said, for five minutes and
not push through and you have toalmost teach people around you
that rest is a priority and thatis how you heal and to just be
able to say, hey, I just need amoment and to have a safe space
to go into that you won't bedisturbed.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
And, like you said, teaching people.
There's nothing wrong withsaying I don't know, yet Let me
think about it.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
It's your face with all of these decisions.
If you don't know, it's okay totake more time.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Yeah, and you're modeling that for your kids too.
They're going to see thatyou're giving yourself some time
to process it and think itthrough, and that's good for
them to see.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
Yeah, and there's people that are listening right
now that are thinking I have somuch to do or in that season I
had so much to do, and thereality is you do, you do, and
you're probably hearing astatement from people that are
in and out of your house orclose to you that are saying if
you need anything, let me know,take them up on it.
Start listing out the thingsyou need done and start giving
(17:42):
out assignments.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Exactly?
Are there any decisions you canoffload to somebody else?
Speaker 4 (17:47):
Errands watching the kiddos cleaning the house.
And there's something that Ithink is so powerful is you got
to have your own space in thisweek or two in between the death
and the funeral, to wherenobody goes, and you just have
your own private space.
And, aaron, you've spoke ofthis before, of just having that
, that area in the house.
That's just for the family, andI mean the immediate family.
(18:08):
It's not the grandparents, it'snot cousins, it's those that
live in the house, that's theirspace and their space only.
The other thing I would sayabout taking care of yourself is
there's some people that aredrains and you need someone to
be the door monitor.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Yeah, and Colleen and I have had these conversations
about kind of we had an analogyabout a house and we had an
analogy and about kind of like,you have these rooms in a home
that you have and not everybodygets to be in your sacred space.
So let's just say, in yourbedroom it's only you and it's
(18:43):
only your immediate family andit's only your kids and they get
to be there.
But just even as an analogy tothink about that, not everybody
gets to have access to everydecision that you're making,
right?
And Colleen, what are someother rooms in that house?
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Yeah.
So I would imagine the kitchenis the next most sacred space in
a home, and so those are forthose people in your life that
are directly connected to you interms of your support system.
So maybe it's your best friend,it's your sister, sister-in-law,
those that you're really closewith, that you trust to help
(19:23):
with these decisions of thehouse and with your family
supporting you and the kidsright now.
And then the next outer, youknow, kind of sacred space in
the home would be the livingroom, for example, and so those
are maybe for your friends, alittle bit more distant
relatives perhaps, and thenyou've got your front porch and
(19:43):
that's where your neighbors are,if you're not super close, but
people who want to offer support, and so, metaphorically
speaking, you know they get tobe on the porch but they don't
get to be in your bedroom withyou, they don't get to be in
your kitchen with you.
And so, thinking about it likethat, think to yourself okay, so
who would be right next to mein my bedroom?
(20:03):
Who would I want in my kitchenand living room and porch?
Speaker 2 (20:08):
And when we're talking about that, the people
that are in the kitchen with you, like your sister, like someone
really close to you, they getto be the ones that communicate
to the people that are in theliving room and they get to be
the ones that communicate to theone that is on the front porch.
And so all that burden of thatevery day, those decisions of
(20:35):
that every day, those decisions,all of just the hard part of
living in those early days ofgrief, they get to take the kind
of be the buffer for you alittle bit, so you're not the
only person that is having to doall of this by yourself.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
Yeah, you have support and sometimes it's just
hard to ask for that.
But I appreciate that analogyand the figurative way to look
at that of how those innercircles and putting in a room
analogy makes a lot of sense forpeople listening here in the
first part of the episode.
(21:07):
We're going to take a breakhere in a moment and come back
and talk about what are some ofthose short-term decisions we
got to face.
What are some of thoselong-term decisions, what are
some of those things we need tobe thinking through and
acquiring answers to?
But I know if you wouldn't mindjust sharing a little bit.
After Tyler died, there weredecisions that you didn't
realize you even made that younow had to make on your own, and
things that Tyler did that youstarted to gradually realize.
(21:31):
These are now decisions I haveto start making because Tyler's
no longer with me and so can youshare a little bit about that,
and then we'll go to break andcome back and talk about some of
those other decisions down theroad.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Yeah, and as you think about just like wife and
husband roles and partner roles,you think about that, sometimes
you don't even realize that oneperson is just naturally doing
this part of life and the otherperson is doing another.
And with Tyler and I, weactually just worked together
every day.
We had a family farmingbusiness and so our every day
(22:03):
was together and there weredecisions that he kind of
naturally made business-wise andthat were kind of in his court
and some that were in mine, andso those the business kept going
after he died and so I wastaking on some of his
decision-making when I maybe wasjust in one role.
(22:23):
I had to expand that role andstart to make decisions and
actually needed informationabout how to make those
decisions.
So it took me a little bitoutside of what I was doing
every day.
So those were everydaydecisions that I needed to make.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
And, speaking of decisions, people often ask us
well, how long should I wait tomake big decisions?
And so when we come back fromthe break, we're going to kind
of jump in there and start withthat, because that is something
we get asked often how long do Ihave to wait before I decide?
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Jessica's House is a children's bereavement center
located in California's CentralValley since 2012.
Jessica's House provides freepeer support for children, teens
, young adults and theirfamilies grieving a loss.
If you need grief-relatedsupport, please visit
jessicashouseorg to download ourfree resources and be sure to
(23:17):
follow Jessica's House on socialmedia.
And if you have any questionsor topics you'd like us to
explore in a future episode,just send us an email at info at
jessicashouseorg.
Speaker 4 (23:28):
Well, hey, as we come back, we wanted to talk about
timeline and when do we makedecisions at info at
jessicashouseorg.
Well, hey, as we come back, wewanted to talk about timeline
and when do we make decisionsand how long is too long, how
short is too short?
Aaron Colleen, we get askedthis question about when do I do
this, or when do I move on, orall these different short-term
and long-term decisions that getmade.
And, aaron, we've been asked isit six months, Is it nine
(23:51):
months?
What about a year?
I think I'll be good after ayear.
What would you say to thosethat have that very question as
they listen?
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Well, I think when you're grieving, especially as
we've been talking today about aspouse or a partner, you just
want to feel better.
So when you think about whatmight give you some relief, you
want it to be a year, you wantit to be six months, you want to
get through the holidays orwhatever it is, but we don't
(24:19):
really know how we'll feel andsome of the circumstances
surrounding a death.
It could be that you know somepeople are really busy with like
we talked about earlier somepeople and are really busy with
like we talked about earlierfamily business or working with
their kids, activities orwhatever it might be, and there
may be something that delaysyour grief and illness of
(24:41):
another family member orsomething else.
So some of our listeners mayhave heard a guideline like you
should wait just you know a yearbefore you make any big
decisions.
But everyone's different andyou know you never know how
you'll feel and maybe thatsecond year is one that you are
(25:05):
just in a different place inyour grief where you need to
still give it some more timebefore you make big decisions.
Something that we know withchildren who are grieving is the
more you can keep yoursurroundings the same, the
better, and I'm thinking aboutjust even the topic of moving.
If you can delay decisions,that would add a significant
(25:32):
amount of change to your child'severyday environment and even
your everyday environment.
If you can keep it the same noteverybody can, but if you can
keep it the same for as long aspossible, that's good.
But I would also say that somefamilies have taught us that
they were dreaming about movingand planning on moving, and the
(25:54):
kids were all on board with thatand that was a dream that they
had and they were already in theplanning process.
So maybe six months, the movesix months later was one that
they needed to make and that'sokay.
But there are so many decisionspractical decisions with
clothing and belongings and theperson's car and all kinds of
(26:17):
decisions that you make andthere's no timeline for that.
Just like grief has no timeline, there's no timeline for that.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
An unfortunate reality to add on to that, erin,
is that you may not have achoice.
You know, financially there'sbeen some big changes in your
house and so you may have tomove.
And if that's the case, whatcan you keep consistent?
Can the kids still go to thesame school by chance?
Can they have the same bedroomfurniture still?
Can you still keep the samefurniture of the house and move
(26:45):
that over to the new spot?
So just if you're not able tostay in the same places for all
the different reasons, what canyou keep consistent?
Speaker 2 (26:54):
I like that.
Just thinking about yourfavorite chair maybe you have
coffee in it every morning.
If you can keep that consistent, whatever it is that you can,
just the most consistency, thatwhat we know and what research
really shows with children whoare.
What we know and what researchreally shows with children who
are, who've had trauma and whoare grieving, is that
(27:15):
consistency can really helpstabilize them.
Speaker 4 (27:16):
And I hear you saying that there's no set time,
because we do get asked,specifically six months a year.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Yeah, no timeline for grief, no timeline for big
decisions.
Not to you know you try not tomake them right away.
Big decisions, not to, you knowyou try not to make them right
away.
Speaker 4 (27:34):
But giving it some time, the time that is really
right for you.
And so what if someone that'slistening to you is sitting
there thinking, boy, I wish Iwould have heard this before I
made the decisions.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Yeah, and like we said earlier, you know,
decisions that we make are we dothe best we can in the moment
with the information that wehave, so there's never any shame
that you didn't know something.
And is it Maya Angelou thatsaid when I knew better, I did
better you?
Know, and so we get informationand we learn, and there's so
(28:02):
much that we would rather it'sjust part of being human right.
We make decisions that we wishwe could change.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
Yeah, and there's those decisions that we want to
take a few minutes and talkabout some of those things that
are short-term decisions, andthen there's some of those
long-term decisions.
And so, erin, when we speak ofsome of those short-term
decisions, what are some ofthose things that we can give
the listener some ideas about insome of those pieces?
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Yeah, I'm thinking about short-term decisions and
this is kind of the businessside after someone dies, and I'm
thinking about some of thepieces that have to do with a
checking account, a bank account, you know, when you're thinking
about insurance and being ableto find support on a financial
(28:52):
level.
And what does that look like?
Because there are financialdecisions to be made and when
someone dies, you oftentimesneed a death certificate in
order to close an account orclose a credit card, whatever
those decisions are.
In those kind of business,parts of life are, and we always
(29:16):
recommend like five to sixdeath certificates.
Many times, whether that's aninsurance company or a bank,
they'll want an original deathcertificate.
Those are things we don't wantto think about, but it's really
important.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Yeah, and do you know if they keep the death
certificate, or is it justsomething you show them?
They keep it.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Okay, sometimes they give it back.
Okay, but sometimes you maynever.
Yeah, everybody's different.
They'll keep it on file.
Sometimes they'll give you backthe original, but, yeah, it
just depends, and some peopleare taking copies more than they
used to.
Okay, so it's just good to getextra when in doubt.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
Yeah, so you don't have to make that trip again.
Exactly, that's another goodpoint too is, you know, with the
bank accounts, you knowsometimes you need to decide on
a second person to add to it now, and so having those
conversations ahead of time orthinking about it now, if
there's somebody you need to addto accounts, they need to go
with you.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
So setting up those opportunities, hey, colleen, as
you were talking, it made methink about there are those
death benefits that sometimesare attached to our employment.
And how does one go aboutfinding out about those, because
sometimes they're in the fineprint.
We know we had an insurancepolicy for both of us and we did
that many years ago, but thenthere was a job change and now
(30:34):
how do I find out about maybethere was a small death benefit
through an employer?
Speaker 3 (30:38):
Yeah, that's a great point, and the best thing to do
would be to reach out to yourcompany's HR or your spouse's
company, their HR representative.
They're equipped andwell-versed in how to help you
access those benefits.
If it wasn't through thecompany you know, you can always
call in and that's an area thatyou can have a support person
(31:01):
come alongside you for to makethose phone calls and gather the
paperwork needed for those.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Something else I'm thinking about is even some
credit cards offer benefits, andso if someone dies, sometimes
there's insurance that isoffered for credit cards that
can pay the bill for you and so,yeah, like you said, brad, some
(31:27):
of that fine print is somethingwe would have never thought of.
Speaker 4 (31:29):
Right Right, we don't know until we start looking
into some of that stuff and youspoke about.
You were talking about jobs andyou might be thinking of, well,
I have to replace their income,like he worked or she worked
and I was home, or vice versa,and all those pieces, and so
long-term decisions about whatam I going to do and we've
talked about the home, but theremight be job change for you as
you listen to this, or goingback to school, to getting more
(31:51):
education, because I have toprovide more, and so some of
those longer term decisions arecoming into effect as we think
about planning for the future aswell.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
And it's never too late to acquire a financial
advisor, you know, even if youhaven't used one in the past, it
might be a nice time to getsupport in that area as you're
making these future plans.
And something that I recentlylearned actually is that
certified financial plannersthey actually have 10 hours a
year, that they offer pro bonowork and so again worth an ask.
(32:21):
Reach out to one that you'veheard you know that you trust in
the community maybe that you'veheard from others and ask them
if they have any more pro bonohours available for you this
year and get connected to one,as they they're really well
versed in all of these type ofdecisions and can come alongside
you really well.
Yeah, I was thinking.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
After Tyler died we had a wonderful accountant that
just came alongside me and I hadto make a decision about even
buying a car and he just went tothe car dealership with me and
helped me so much just to make agood decision on that next car
that we had to buy in our family.
And so sometimes, you know, asI was making financial decisions
(33:06):
, I was just reaching out tokind of professionals that
became kind of friends also andit's nice to have those people
around you that have theexpertise.
You know I'm not an accountantbut I can find one, you know,
and talk to one, and so it wasreally helpful to have those
people in my community and in mycircle to help me make some
decisions.
Speaker 4 (33:27):
And if someone's listening that doesn't have that
developed circle, what can theydo to find some of those
resources and some of thoseprofessionals that can help?
Speaker 2 (33:55):
And just really just trying to find somebody that you
know is reputable and I likethe idea what you said, colleen,
about the certified financialplanner, but being able to find
someone that has that expertise.
Speaker 4 (34:09):
And we know that the decisions, those short-term
decisions, some of the long-termdecisions we've been talking
about, are taxing.
We're exhausted from all theemotion.
We're exhausted from decisionsthat we had to make and now
we're tackling new tasks that wedidn't envision us taking on
because of the death Erin.
We often talk about long-termsupport, that someone needs,
(34:31):
long-term support in grief.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
And can you just share a little bit about the
importance of that and theneed're talking about today,
just to know that you needsupport today and always.
You know this is you're in amuch more vulnerable place than
you once were when you had twopeople in your home and you were
making decisions together andso finding that support.
(35:11):
I wanna just say for Jessica'sHouse, we have extra resources
on our website, jessicashouseorg.
You can go to the resources tab.
But also there may be a griefcenter in your local area when
you, if you go to the NationalAlliance for Children's Grief,
there is a search bar therewhere you can look to see if
(35:33):
there is a grief center in yourarea.
So reaching out.
I think what we're alwaystalking about is how we hear
that so often grievers feelalone and anything that we can
do to lessen that.
That could be a local griefshare in your local church.
There are grief share groupsthat are offered.
(35:55):
It could be an online supportgroup and finding someone that
helps you feel less alone andfinding that support and
planning that for your long-term.
Speaker 4 (36:07):
Because we need to support ourselves and find
support from others and, likeyou said, you can go to the
National Alliance for Children'sGrief or churches and grief
share.
Hospices have groups andthere's a number of great
hospices around the country.
The other thing is we need tosupport ourselves because we
still got kids at home for thosethat are listening and there's
(36:29):
things that and decisions thatare coming that we need to make
with the kiddos in mind andtrying to avoid as much change
as we can as you spoke aboutthat a little earlier, trying to
keep things as simple and asroutine as possible.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Yeah, Keeping the consistency is so important, and
, as you're talking with yourkids, and as you're talking with
your kids, what happens when achild loses a parent is they can
really just feel that sense ofloss of control.
(37:04):
You know so much of the time.
Whatever happened to them, theynever wanted that to happen and
so to help them just be informedabout the decisions that
they're making and you know itcan be so confusing for a child
to have these brand new emotionsthat they've never had before.
So, as we think about this, wewant to be able to talk to our
child, and really somethingColleen talks about so often is
(37:28):
to like nothing can replace yourpresence with your child, right
?
So you're supporting yourself,but you're also with your child,
and having less support in yourchild's home without having the
physical presence of yourspouse or partner means that
they need, as hard as it is,they need more of you and other
(37:49):
trusted adults in their life,and so we talk about just that
physical proximity of closeness,being able to listen to their
questions over and over, even asyou're processing different
decisions, and as they may have,you know, big feelings and
(38:10):
emotions about decisions thatare being made, and not only did
they have no control over theirparents' death, but they also
maybe have no real control andneither do you over some
decisions that maybe you don'twant to make but you're forced
to make because of this death.
And so being able to say toyour child like you can be
really mad about this and youremotions, they don't scare me.
(38:32):
I'm here for that.
Whenever it is that you havethis emotion we've been talking
about in different episodes, asexpress it, the way you feel it,
If it's intense and it's coming, it's inside of your child and
they feel the intensity of thatemotion, being able to express
it in the moment.
And also with you being able tobe a container for your child,
(38:57):
not being afraid of it, butyou're there with them in it as
they express deep disappointmentand anger that there are
decisions that they never wantedto that are affecting them.
Speaker 4 (39:08):
Right, because there's a reality of I no longer
have my spouse to be able torun this errand or pick a kid up
from practice or still beinvolved in this social piece
that was a part of our life andthat's a reality that we have to
cut back because there's onlyso much of me to go around and
there might be a vacation thatwas on the horizon.
(39:29):
That's no longer, and so tohave conversations with our
kiddos about here's what'shappening and here's the reality
of you know, dad's not here ormom's not here, I can't do
everything we were doing.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
One thing that you can do for your kids is help
them to feel seen and just byreiterating you're really mad
that we can't go on that trip.
You are so mad that we have toswitch schools.
I get that, I see that.
And just reiterating thefeelings that they're showing
you about it, to show that yousee it, you get it.
(40:01):
It doesn't change the reality,but at least you understand.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
And to be able to have that conversation to even
add to that is like I'm reallymad too.
Conversation to even add tothat is like I'm really mad too,
Like this is not how I imaginedour life would go in our family
.
And I'll never forget hearing amom just talk about how she
just said you know we're justgoing to cry, you know we're
going to do it together, we'regoing to be mad together and
(40:26):
just normalizing all thoseemotions that adults and kids
have and to do that together isokay and just to let that be
whatever it is, as you'refeeling it, and all of the
disappointment or whatever it isthat you're feeling after these
big decisions have to be made.
Speaker 4 (40:44):
And, colleen, I appreciate the way you said that
, because the child is heard andnot just blown off in a sense.
Not that that's the goal ofparents, but it's like I just
can't, you know, hold anotheremotion, but to really let them
be heard.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
Another reality is that you may not know, and so
you can share that with them.
I don't know the answer to thatyet.
I'm working on it and I'll letyou know as soon as I do, and so
if they know that, they cantrust you're going to keep them
in the loop as best you can.
There is some safety in therefor the kiddos, and you know.
(41:20):
Just again, I want to reiteratewhat Erin said so well earlier
that throughout this entireprocess, with all of these
decisions you're faced with,just know that you might have
some regret later on as you havea little bit more clarity, but
really just go back to the factthat you had a lot of decisions
(41:41):
to make, really hard things thatyou've likely never had to do
before, and so you did the bestthat you could with what you
knew at the time, and so pleasejust offer yourself that
permission now and in the comingyears.
Speaker 4 (41:57):
Be sure to visit jessicashouseorg for more grief
resources and if you have otherquestions or topic for show
ideas, let us know at info atjessicashouseorg.
Be sure to join us for anotherepisode of when Grief Comes Home
.
Until then, we wish you well.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
Jessica's House is a children's bereavement center
located in California's CentralValley since 2012.
We provide free peer supportfor children, teens, young
adults and their familiesgrieving a loss young adults and
their families grieving a loss.
If you need grief-relatedsupport, please visit
(42:38):
jessicashouseorg to download ourfree resources and be sure to
follow Jessica's House on socialmedia.
And if you have any questionsor topics you'd like for us to
explore in future episodes, justsend us an email to
jessicashouseorg.
Thank you for joining us andwe'll see you next time, for
when Grief Comes Home.
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