September 16, 2025 • 43 mins
Welcome to the When Grief Comes Home podcast. We're glad you're here. This podcast supports parents who are grieving a spouse, partner, or child while helping their children who are living through the loss of a parent or sibling. With personal grief stories and professional guidance, we offer parents practical tips for supporting their child who is grieving while caring for their own grief.
In this episode, Erin and Colleen share the powerful concept of "the rule of thirds" in grief support—how a third of people will disappointingly vanish, will provide neutral assistance, and will show up in ways you never imagined.
Beyond practical support, we dig into the emotional quality of relationships during grief. The difference between true compassion versus what we call "silent indifference" can profoundly impact healing. We discuss how to handle well-intentioned but painful platitudes, express your authentic needs, and conserve precious emotional energy by showing up as your true grieving self instead of maintaining appearances.
Order the book When Grief Comes Home https://a.co/d/ijaiP5L
For more information on Jessica’s House or for additional resources, please go to jessicashouse.org
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Gary Shriver (00:00):
Hello and welcome to When Grief Comes Home, a
podcast dedicated to parentsliving through loss while
supporting their child.
Let's meet the team.
Erin Nelson (00:11):
I'm Erin Nelson, founding Executive Director at
Jessica's House.
Colleen Montague (00:15):
Hi, I'm Colleen Montague, Program
Director for Jessica's House anda licensed marriage and family
therapist.
Brad Quillen (00:21):
Hi, I'm Brad Quillen and I'm the host of
Gary Shriver (00:25):
This podcast goes along with a book of the same
name.
The book When Grief Comes Homeis a gentle guide for parents
who are grieving a partner orchild, while helping their
children through the loss oftheir parent or sibling.
When Grief Comes Home is nowavailable at all major book
retailers.
When Grief Comes Home is nowavailable at all major book
(00:47):
retailers.
Now let's go to the team, asthey share grief resources and
coping skills, heartfelt storiesand insights to support parents
as they raise children who aregrieving Together, you'll find
strength as we learn to livewith loss and find ways to heal.
Brad Quillen (01:01):
Well, hello, hello , it's Brad from Jessica's House
.
Today, we're talking aboutthose in your life that can
bring strength to you and yourfamily during this time of grief
.
Over the years, families haveshared with us that they are
surprised at those who show upin their darkest moments, while
others they counted ondisappeared.
Today, we'll explore how griefchanges our relationships and
(01:24):
how to build a support systemthat will actually be there for
you when you need them.
Well, Erin and Colleen, it's sogood to see you and I'm very
happy we are talking about thistopic, because, for all the
years I've sat in groups, thisalways comes up, because there
are some people that we expectto be there and there's some
people that we never knew wouldshow up in the ways in which
(01:46):
they do, and so there's a lot ofgrace, but then there's also a
lot of questions and even morepain, sometimes because of
community and what we thoughtwould happen or the people that
would circle up around us don't.
And so, Erin, I know in yourown life that this has been a
piece of your story and just wascurious if you'd share a bit
about that and how you'velearned some of these lessons
that we're going to talk abouttoday.
Erin Nelson (02:08):
Thank you, Brad, and so glad to be back together
today, and you know when I thinkabout sharing your grief and
community and having the supportthat you need.
It's so important that you canidentify really who adds
strength and comfort to youduring that time and being able
(02:29):
to identify those people andsurround yourself with the
people that don't deplete yourenergy.
And in my own life I know we'vetalked before about the people
around me who gave me so muchstrength and I also had to
realize that everyone has adifferent kind of capacity and
(02:52):
we all have limits in what wecan hold for others when it
comes to their pain.
And some of my friends andfamily members were able to
really hold that and it almostfeels like over my lifetime
we've just taken turns holdingeach other's pain.
It's like you go throughsomething and then they do and
(03:13):
just going back and forth withthat.
But I do remember one time whensomeone close to me just said
it's really hard for me to holdyour pain and it feels like a
lot and I appreciated thathonesty and at the same time, it
was really hard to hear.
So, as our listeners arethinking about who does have the
(03:33):
capacity, and sometimes it'ssituational for those close
friends and family.
Maybe they have something goingon at the time and they're not
able to really be there for you.
Have something going on at thetime and they're not able to
really be there for you, and soidentifying those supporters is
so important.
Brad Quillen (03:49):
So you just said something that I want to come
back to.
You just mentioned a momentago, there are those that gave
me strengths because, if we'rereally honest, there's people
that are givers and takers and Idon't mean that in a that
they're purposely doing that butwe feel exhausted after we've
been with them in grief, or it'swork to be with them.
Or, if I'm really honest and Isee him walking up to the door,
(04:12):
I go, oh, I just don't have ittoday.
Erin Nelson (04:15):
Right and sometimes I've traditionally thought that
if someone does have a griefstory and maybe they've been
through a similar loss, thatthey would be kind of my person.
But sometimes we just all jivelike with different
personalities and just as ahuman we know who it is that we
(04:37):
can just be ourselves with and Ithink it's just that resting
place to know that as they enterthe door, that the impact in
the room is not that significant.
They're able to come into somuch of what we talk about, into
reflection and really readingthe room and knowing what the
(04:57):
needs are in the room.
And some people are reallyreally good at that and others
just aren't.
Brad Quillen (05:03):
Right, they can come in and almost come in and
not be noticed, right.
And then there's some peoplethat come in and I'm going to be
honest drain the room.
Erin Nelson (05:10):
Yeah, yeah, they just take the oxygen.
Brad Quillen (05:15):
Yeah, so here around the house we'll talk
about this quote that AlanWoolfelt says from time to time
on the thirds calling, and socan you explain what we mean
because we share that in groupoften about there's a third of
people, there's a third ofpeople and then there's another
third.
That is kind of eye-opening fora lot of the families here at
Jessica's House.
Colleen Montague (05:31):
What Dr.
Alan Wolfelt has taught us is athird of the people in your
life are going to surprise youwith the ways that they actually
don't come through for you inhow you hoped they would, and
maybe they add hurt to youbecause of that.
A third of the people in yourlife will be more neutral
(05:53):
supporters.
And then there'll be a specialthird that will surprise you in
how they do show up for you andcome through in the ways that
you need and maybe didn't evenrealize the ways that you need.
Brad Quillen (06:09):
Yeah, and there's those people that show up in
little ways that we don't knowabout until later, you know,
especially around funerals inthe first few weeks and those
things.
And I know a friend that, aaron, you and I've known for years
that will just show up and dropoff a nice chest and drive away
and then come back a few dayslater and restock it.
Erin Nelson (06:27):
Right.
I mean we call that the magicice chest and I know we had that
with Carter and we were neverexpecting it.
But as we came home from thehospital, I'll never forget the
next morning going out to mydeck and there was a huge ice
chest on our deck just full ofdrinks and ice.
It was just there, and then thenext day, fresh ice fresh
(06:51):
drinks.
And I know that later we foundout it was someone who had also
lost their son in a car accidentand they were just coming in to
help in a practical way and youknow even just the basics of
staying hydrated when you'recrying a lot and making sure
(07:11):
that the whole family just has aplace to go to just grab some
drinks out of the ice chest, asthey're gathering around and
that becomes kind of even agathering place to just go
outside and know that there aredrinks there.
Brad Quillen (07:24):
Yeah, and it's taking care of some of those
random minute tasks that peoplesometimes just step up and
surprise us and show up and helptake care of those.
How many times we've mowedlawns of different places and
all those things are dishes andcleaning and all the different
things that need to happen.
Erin Nelson (07:42):
All of that.
Earlier this week, colleen andI had this discussion about what
it looks like when you have tokeep the coffee going and how
often you go and everyone's inyour home and you go to reach
for another cup of coffee andthe coffee pot's emptied and
then you have to fill it up andall the things.
(08:02):
But you knowbucks has thosetravelers that are just the
cardboard boxes, and colleenmentioned earlier this week that
she just, you know, pickedthose that was something like
that up and dropped it off at afriend's house and it has all
the cream and the cups and thesugar and everything.
And just putting it onsomeone's front porch, just
(08:24):
showing your support in that way, then they don't have to keep
the coffee going.
You just put it on your counter.
It already has everything youneed.
It's something you can throwaway at the end of the day, and
just making life a little easierreally makes a difference.
Brad Quillen (08:39):
And there are some things that are tangible needs,
but there's some needs thatgrieving people have that I want
to ask you both about a littlebit.
And we talk about the idea ofsome of these being companion
and compassion versus silentindifference, and so I know
those are big words, but can wetake a minute and just kind of
touch base on some of thosethings?
And sometimes people feel likesomeone's there to fix them or
(09:02):
they've now become a project,and that's not what we need in
grief.
Erin Nelson (09:05):
Yeah, and I think when you're grieving, there's
this good silence and thenthere's a silence that feels a
little bit judgmental,especially if you're grieving a
stigmatized death.
Brad Quillen (09:19):
Yeah, so true.
Erin Nelson (09:20):
And sometimes just there can be a silence that
feels like there's a little bitof distance between you and
someone else, and we call thatat Jessica's house, we call that
silent indifference, and it isa painful feeling to be pain,
(09:46):
which is really how we heal, andto be there in compassion and
just mirroring your energy andyour body language.
And if you're sitting, they'resitting with you, they're
leaning in and justunderstanding a little bit more
about what you need and they'rejust coming closer.
Colleen Montague (10:11):
We've talked many times here on the podcast
about the importance ofexpressing your grief in the way
it needs to be felt, and sothat includes surrounding
yourself with the right people,and so what I was thinking when
you were talking about that isthere are going to be those that
try to help, but maybe they'rejust not the right fit for you,
they're not doing it in the waysthat you need, and so it's okay
(10:32):
to give yourself some distancefrom them, you know, and to
instead lean into those that aresupporting you in the right
ways that you need, supportingyou in the right ways that you
need, and also, even if you feelcomfortable enough with maybe
somebody that isn't as helpful,to share what would be helpful,
(10:52):
you know, actually, if you coulddo this, that would really be
helpful to me right now.
Or, you know, I know whatyou're trying to say right now
is something to make me feelbetter, but it's actually not.
It's kind of making it a littleharder.
Erin Nelson (11:04):
What I do need is this it's so true, colleen, and
what you're talking about isjust expressing your needs with
other people, and one kind ofpart of grief that we hear so
much from families is how theyexperience others' discomfort of
being with them in their griefand having someone really
(11:31):
witness your grief and reallywitness the gravity of it To be
able to stay in those momentsthat are so heavy.
And it's so hard for people todo that.
And so when we're thinkingabout grief, so much of the time
people are wanting to fix, sothey're wanting you to pop out
and they're wanting to offersome kind of solution.
(11:52):
So there's such a differencebetween meeting like a physical
need, like hydration or coffeeor helping with the kids, and
actually just trying to cheersomeone up and trying to fix the
situation in some way, and thatenergy can be really hard for
people as well.
So you can learn how toverbalize that, just to say like
(12:13):
my grief is my love for myperson, and if it feels like
sometimes I feel like you wantto fix that, and when I feel
that from you it diminisheswhere I need to be.
Like one mom said, you know myson is worth every tear, and so
that's like her loving him, andif somebody's trying to fix that
(12:36):
, then it can feel unloving fromthe person that is trying to
bring support.
Colleen Montague (12:42):
Yeah, just simply saying this is where I am
right now.
This is where I am right now.
I like that.
Brad Quillen (12:49):
And people will be like well, you don't want to
stay there or we need to move onyou know, and so, to repeat it,
this is where I am right now.
Yeah, yeah, cause we do.
We try and cheer them up, andthat takes me back to minimizing
statements of things thatyou'll have people that you
thought were going to be in thiswith you that would might say,
(13:09):
well, at least they're no longerin pain or they're in a better
place, which could be true, butwe wish they were right next to
us still.
Erin Nelson (13:18):
Exactly Just right there, and the adjustment to not
having someone's physicalpresence in your life is a big
task and it's so hard to livewith that, so allowing somebody
all the space and time that theyneed to adjust to not having
(13:39):
them in their world.
Colleen Montague (13:41):
And so what if you could just say to that
person, if they say, you knowthe, that sentiment, that
they're in a better place sayingto them that's true, and I also
wish they were here with me.
Brad Quillen (13:54):
One, one wife said in group um, they had been
married 57 years or somethinglike that, and somebody in her
family said, well, at least youhad him for 57 years.
And she said I would take himfor another 57.
Yeah, it's that.
Well, at least.
Colleen Montague (14:14):
Yeah, so it's okay to gently push back a
little bit, not in a bad way,but just to gently, to express
how you actually are feeling andto be honored to that how you
actually feel about it, yeah.
Brad Quillen (14:29):
This brings up the fact that we talk about this,
that some, that not everybody,can talk about grief or death
and it's not comfortable, right?
And so a lot of times peopleare trying to help us see the
brighter side, but that's notwhat we need.
But can we just take a minute?
I know Erin you've talked aboutin the store, you know, after
(14:49):
Tyler died.
You know there's some awkwardinteractions or at a different
location, you know, maybedowntown somewhere.
It's like that people don'treact the way they used to just
because there's been a death inthe family.
Erin Nelson (15:00):
Yeah, and I think something and even probably part
of my personality is to pretenda little bit because, you know,
just being in the community,being a leader in the community
and having a lot of very publicdeaths.
But I think what I learnedafter Carter died is congruency
saves my energy.
So when I can really come showup in the world in the way I'm
(15:24):
feeling and not try to goagainst that, then I actually
can just continue to heal and itsaves energy for my healing.
So I had to learn just to besad in the community and to show
up in my sweats and no makeupand just be there and really
even dress and be the way I'mfeeling in that moment and just
(15:49):
to allow the community to see mein a true way and to grieve
like publicly.
Brad Quillen (15:58):
So can I ask you this?
This is what I got Like.
This is.
This is like what I can dotoday, right?
Erin Nelson (16:04):
Yes.
Brad Quillen (16:04):
I'm just, I made do today Right.
Yes, I'm just, I made it here.
Erin Nelson (16:06):
Right.
Brad Quillen (16:07):
My hair's done and I, you know, look like a
million bucks or whatever wewant to say but with the makeup
and everything but this this iswhat I.
This is where I'm at.
This is what I got.
Erin Nelson (16:14):
This is where I am, and this is me showing up in a
true way and letting you justwitness the sadness.
Brad Quillen (16:23):
Yeah, it's kind of like Colleen said it's where
I'm at.
Erin Nelson (16:26):
Exactly, and sometimes we have to show up
physically where we are and behonest.
I think that just honesty andauthenticity is a way to really
teach your community what youneed from them, because, as
we've said before, there's agolden hour.
So when we are working againsthow we're really feeling, if
(16:51):
we're putting that in the worldand we're presenting an image or
a way of being or words thatwe're okay, then the community
thinks we are and then theyreally can't get closer.
Brad Quillen (17:05):
Because there's no difference before and after.
Exactly, if you're all puttogether, you're still running
100 miles an hour and being inall the places and serving on
the committees or volunteeringin this way.
Erin Nelson (17:16):
Exactly, just take a pause, be with your sadness.
Colleen Montague (17:20):
I would add to that when you are authentic in
your grief at home and out andabout, when you have that
congruency, your kids see thattoo, and so you are a model for
them.
We've said that before.
But also that congruency piecematters, because if you're
different at home than out inpublic, your kids take notice of
(17:42):
that.
Not to say there are times whenyou don't want to fall apart in
public and so you have to actas if I get that for sure.
But if you always keep thatstark difference, that's what
you're showing your kids thatthey need to do, that they're
never able to show upauthentically themselves in a
space outside of the home.
Brad Quillen (18:04):
I'm glad you brought up the kid, because the
whole family dynamics change.
And how do we navigate some ofthose things?
Because the reality is there'sgoing to be some tension,
there's going to be someunspoken expectations in
families.
There's a comparison of therelationship, sometimes there's
different levels of grieving, orpeople see that this person in
(18:24):
the family doesn't stop crying,but this person hasn't started
crying, so are they not grieving?
And all those kind of things.
Can we take a few minutes andjust kind of unpack some of
those dynamics?
Colleen Montague (18:35):
Yeah, I think, if you look at it, what you're
saying, brad, is there's kind ofdifferent layers to it.
You could be looking at justyour little nuclear family and
the differences there, and noweach child had a special
relationship with that personwho died, even though maybe it
was, you know, it was their dadand it was both of their dads,
but they both had a uniqueconnection.
(18:57):
But then when you kind of panout a bit, even just with
in-laws, you know and you'regrieving the loss of, let's say,
your husband, your spouse, andyour mother-in-law is grieving
the loss of her son and yoursister-in-law is grieving the
loss of her brother, and soeverybody's hurting.
But what you're saying, brad,is like we can't compare pain
(19:18):
though.
Yeah, it's just pain, yeah, andnobody's is more important or
or valid than the others.
But we're all humans and therewas a before, there was the
relationship with all of thesefamily members before the death,
and some of that is going toabsolutely spill over into the
now and all of the intenseemotions that everybody's
(19:42):
holding right now.
Erin Nelson (19:43):
Yeah, I would add to that that each person.
It's okay if you feel like yourpain is more significant, and
each person may feel that way,like, well, I had this
relationship and it feels likeit's more than that other
relationship, and I know we seethat when we're talking about
(20:04):
even friendships to the personwho died, you know one person
may be like I was really closeto them, but this other person
is saying that they were theirbest friend and so it's okay to
just feel like it's all soweighty and that maybe you do
have a more significantrelationship or your loss is
(20:27):
more significant.
But just that we're honoringthe differences and that we're
honoring the pain of everysingle person.
But your pain is your own andyou feel it so uniquely, so
sometimes you may think and feellike it just is so it's like
(20:48):
more than other people's andit's interesting how you can
just feel that way and it's okayto feel that way too.
Colleen Montague (20:55):
And I think we also have to remember that when
we're grieving we're not thebest version of ourselves
because we are in so much pain,but also, just at baseline, the
physical impacts that grief hason us, on our sleeping abilities
.
Sleep is so disrupted in griefI know I'm never the best
(21:15):
version of myself when I amsleep deprived.
Our appetite has likely changed.
We may not have enough proteinin our body, we may have like
low blood sugar levels, and sojust knowing that about
ourselves and giving ourselves alittle bit of leniency with
that and with yourself too, sobeing able to check in with
(21:37):
yourself to know if somebody'scomment bothered you because it
really was an awful comment, oralso if maybe you weren't in the
right place to receive it atthat time.
Erin Nelson (21:49):
Yeah, like you're saying, colleen, we're so raw,
it's almost like our skin isjust kind of like you've taken
off a few layers of your skinand just everything hurts, and
so some little comments thatnormally we would just integrate
just really easily feel reallybig and just painful and you
(22:10):
know hard.
And so another thing thathappens in grief that's really
interesting is that becausethere's a lot of pain with
everybody, you don't want to addpain, and sometimes little
conflicts that you should beresolving you may be putting off
, and then sometimes those buildup because you think I
(22:30):
shouldn't even bring this upright now, so many big things
are going on and then sometimesthat can deteriorate
relationships.
Colleen Montague (22:38):
I think there can be the flip side too.
You know, if we have, if we'vehad strain in the family before
the death, but maybe now thatwe've lost this person, mutually
, the things that used to matterdon't anymore, and so sometimes
we can see the reverse, wherefamilies just really let go of
those little things and they docome together in support of one
another.
Brad Quillen (22:59):
So if I hear what you guys are saying, everything
is intensified.
Erin Nelson (23:03):
Yeah.
Brad Quillen (23:04):
We need grace, grace, grace.
Erin Nelson (23:06):
It takes a lot of grace for ourselves yeah.
For the whole situation, thosethat we're sitting with and that
are visiting, or our family,but yeah, and to speak that into
the room to say, hey,everyone's so raw right now and
we're naturally going to be moreannoyed with each other and we
will be, we will take moreoffense, and just to say this is
(23:30):
a normal part of grief.
Brad Quillen (23:32):
Yeah, that's what I.
When you were speaking, Ithought we get offended a lot
easier probably.
Yeah, not that we shouldn't beupset at that statement, but
it's just.
We're so, we're out of sleep,we're not eating well, we're raw
, emotionally right.
Erin Nelson (23:44):
Everything is just so intensified, yeah exactly you
know, and your community is asafe place to be that version of
yourself too.
And just to say like, this isnot completely who I've always
been, but this is where I amright now.
Brad Quillen (23:59):
Like Colleen said, yeah, yeah, this is where I am
and I know there's people thatare listening, that are sitting
there and they're asking thequestion, but how in the world
do I tell them how they can help, or what can I say to help or
help them understand what I need?
So, listening to all this, I'vegot to ask the question to you
too, because there's people thatare listening right now that
(24:21):
are still trying to figure out,with all those tensions and all
those feelings and everythingthat's going on.
How do I help someoneunderstand what I need in this
moment or in this day or inthese weeks coming?
Colleen Montague (24:33):
I think it's okay to just be honest with
others and tell them what it isyou need, and that's always
changing, you know, during grief.
So just go with where you areright now, as we've been talking
about, and someone once ontheir social media page, you
know, shared a heart update andthen at the end said here's how
(24:54):
you can help me when you see meout and about, just give me a
hug and say I love you, and thatwas very helpful for her
friends and the family that werereading that to know how to
interact with her.
And so just setting that up inthat way, or if your phone, if
you're getting flooded with youknow, texts and they're all
(25:14):
beautiful and supportive but youjust don't have the capacity to
respond, copy and paste amessage to all of them.
I see your text.
Thanks, I'll get back to yousoon.
Brad Quillen (25:24):
So, colleen, you're talking about the way to
get the word out, in a sense,and the question, aaron, that
always follows when we seesomeone in our American culture
is well, hey, how are you?
How are you doing?
Erin Nelson (25:38):
Yes, it's such a big question, right?
Can't we just say aloha orsomething like that?
Brad, you're wearing a Hawaiianshirt today.
You could adopt a new greetingin America.
So I'm just thinking, you know,that's when you have to do a
quick self check in, right, andyou have to ask yourself if
(25:59):
you're ready for an honestanswer, and even if it's just
kind of partially, becausesometimes that just means hello,
right, if you're at the grocerystore, they're just saying hi.
That's what I mean, that's whatwe default to, that is our
greeting, and so we can just sayI'm fine, you know, and that's
(26:19):
kind of what we have in thatmoment.
But if it is someone that knowskind of where, you know what we
have in that moment, but if itis someone that knows you and
you feel safe enough.
Some of the what we've writtenin the book are some kind of
back pocket responses, which oneof them we wrote was just like
I'm functional, but I'm reallysad, you know, and being able to
(26:40):
say, yeah, I'm here, I'mgrocery shopping right now, but
I'm really, really sad and beingable to say that, or I was
having a really good morning,but now I can feel my grief just
creeping in and I kind of feellike I need a nap right now and
so I'm going to go.
I had one mom who said thatthere would be so many people
(27:02):
that would greet her and thather ice cream would melt in the
grocery store and sometimes shejust needed to kind of get out
of there, and so being able tosay I'm feeling pretty tired and
so I'm going to keep going so Ican go home.
Brad, earlier you talked aboutsomeone else who says at least
statements to you and howunhelpful that can be.
(27:23):
But you know, sometimes we whosays at least statements to you,
and how unhelpful that can be.
But you know, sometimes we givethose at least statements to
ourselves and with our loss wecan say, you know, well, at
least it wasn't my child, or atleast I have support, or at
least I know that I have a houseright now and I have a bed to
(27:43):
sleep in and we can diminish ourown pain.
And so being able to be withyourself and with your pain and
to know that it matters and, youknow, even placing a hand over
our heart, to say I'm givingmyself the compassion I need
(28:09):
right now, because I'm feelingreally incredibly, just sad
right now and I need to be withmyself and not give myself those
at least statements.
Brad Quillen (28:21):
Aaron and Colleen.
Thank you, because that is sogood and so many people
listening that need to behearing this when we come back
from the break.
We're going to talk a littleabout home how to build our own
home team of those folks thatare in our corner, but then also
how do we walk our kiddosthrough some of these things,
too, as well.
Gary Shriver (28:37):
Jessica's House is a children's bereavement center
located in California's CentralValley since 2012.
We provide free peer supportfor children, teens, young
adults and their familiesgrieving a loss.
The when Grief Comes Homepodcast goes along with the book
of the same name.
The book When Grief Comes Homeis a gentle guide for parents
(28:59):
who are grieving a partner orchild while helping their
children through the loss oftheir parent or sibling.
When Grief Comes Home is nowavailable at all major book
retailers and if you needgrief-related support, please
visit jessicashouseorg todownload our free resources.
And be sure to follow Jessica'sHouse on social media and if
(29:23):
you have any questions or topicsthat you'd like us to explore
in a future episode, just sendus an email to info@
jessicashouse.
org.
Brad Quillen (29:29):
Well, welcome back , and Erin and Colleen, that was
so good what we just spent sometime talking about, but the
curiosity I have now is how dowe help our kiddos that are
walking through grief with someof these same dilemmas, one of
those being platitudes we usethe word or those, at least,
statements.
What are some of the ways wecan prepare them for when they
hear some of those in their ownlife?
Erin Nelson (29:50):
Yeah, Brad, I remember working with a child
here at Jessica's House and wewere doing art together.
And she said you know, one ofmy really good friends at school
told me today that their catdied and now she knows what it
feels like to lose someone.
And she said yeah, now I knowhow you feel after your dad died
(30:12):
, because my cat died.
And then she looked at me andshe said a cat is not the same
as a dad.
And she just wanted to say likethat didn't feel right to her.
And so being able and you know,thinking about her, she was able
to express that in the momentto just say that doesn't feel
the same and just like, as wetalked earlier about, it's okay
(30:35):
if you that, if you feel likeyour pain is more, like it feels
like more to you, and so forher she wanted to say having
your dad die it feels like areally big deal and, of course,
a cat is a really big deal toobut in that moment she wanted to
say that doesn't feel the same.
(30:56):
So being able to express that,which is one reason, as our
listeners are hearing us todayto find support where your kids
can be with others who'veexperienced a similar death.
That's why, just at Jessica'sHouse, we try to surround kids
with other parents you know,kids who've lost a parent with
other kids who've also lost aparent.
(31:16):
It can really help you feelunderstood, because so much of
the time they're in settingsevery day where maybe they
aren't really understood and Ithink that's true for adults and
parents as well.
But learning how to speak inthat moment, to be honest and to
say hey, that didn't feelhelpful to me, and giving
(31:39):
language for kids to say it'snot helpful or it doesn't feel
the same, and to express kind ofhow they're feeling, and we can
model that as parents as well.
Colleen Montague (31:51):
Along that same line, Erin.
We can also teach them how theycan teach others who they are
now.
And a lot of times you know thekids and teens they don't want
to be treated differentlybecause of their loss.
They're still a kid, they'restill a teen, and so it's okay
for them to tell their friendsthat hey, I'm still me and I
(32:13):
still like to play, I still liketo do the things I liked to do,
and so let's keep hanging out,you know, in whatever language
feels the best, and so let'skeep hanging out, you know, in
whatever language feels the best.
But being able to A know thatit's okay to want to have some
normalcy and then B to be ableto express that to their friends
(32:34):
, that's what you're going tohelp your kids through.
Brad Quillen (32:38):
Yeah, because there's a reality of I want to
be a kid, but so much of my lifehas changed that I'm going to
hear and feel things differentlynow.
That's what's hard to help kidsgrapple with is that they hear a
statement like that about thecat dynamic, which we all
understand is not the same, butwe've never had to face that
kind of feeling and emotion,especially at eight years old or
(33:01):
13 years old.
And so how do we help kids beready for some of those aha
moments that we didn't realizewe were going to have to prepare
them for?
Erin Nelson (33:09):
Yeah, Brad, and I think what kids teach us that
they want their friends to sayis tell me about your dad.
They want to talk about theperson who died.
They want to engage with theirfriends about whoever it is
their brother, their sister,their dad, whoever it is that
they've lost their mom and justlittle questions, like you, can
(33:32):
teach your friends to say ask mespecific questions about them.
You know what was one of yourfavorite vacations?
How are you like your dad oryour mom?
What was their favorite icecream?
What will you never forgetabout them?
What did their voice sound like?
What was their laugh like?
You know just what wassomething that you love to do
(33:54):
just when you were home alone.
What did they cook that youreally liked?
And I remember just so manystories that we've heard at
Jessica's House and we've hadthe honor of hearing just all
about the person who died.
And I'll never forget somebodylike drawing this bacon wrapped
turkey and how their dad alwaysmade this turkey, and they
(34:17):
wanted to talk all about thatOne time.
You know somebody wanted totalk about how their dad made
the best tacos and that you know, every night he always made
sure that there was dinner onthe table and you know now he's
no longer there and that's areally big hole for them.
So they want to talk about thetacos, and so whatever it is
(34:43):
that kids want to talk about,it's such a gift in with their
memories saying I'll neverforget when your dad was, you
know, coached me on what hetaught me out on the field, or
your mom she always took us toswim, or whatever it is that
they have memories of, and thatis such a gift for someone who's
(35:06):
grieving is to just hear aboutthe person who died, to be asked
about the person who died.
Colleen Montague (35:11):
And sharing with your child that you know,
by bringing up your person andtalking about them, it is
showing your friend that you'reokay to talk about them.
And I was even thinking, aaron,you have a lot of really good
suggestions.
You know, depending on the ageof your child's friend, if you
have a connection with theirparents, you know maybe you can
connect with the parent and justsay, hey, in case your child
(35:35):
wants to know how to interactwith my son now, or what to say.
You know, here are some thingslike I know he's okay talking
about it or he does like tostill talk about his dad.
So just if you want to tellyour child like it's okay to
bring him up if you have thatrelationship with your child's
friend parent so they can equipthem, their child, with how to
(35:57):
support their friend, I think,aaron and Colleen, it's safe to
say that there's going to befriendship dynamics that change
for our kids.
Brad Quillen (36:05):
But I think in all my years here that some of
those dynamics that get changedor affected the most would be
with teens and maybe even youngadults calling.
So what would you say to someof those parents that are
listening that have teens that13, 18, 17, you know that
teenage kid or maybe even ayoung adult, that those
relationships do change a littlebit more sometimes with that
(36:27):
age group?
Colleen Montague (36:30):
To just be real with it, that it stinks,
that that reality that somefriendships are going to change
and you can even share howyou're feeling that yourself
Maybe.
Maybe you're having some harddynamics with a friend and
sharing that with your teen oryour young adult.
Yeah, I was really let down,you know, by so-and-so.
(36:51):
I really thought they you knowcould have been there a little
bit more I'm not reallyunderstanding that right now,
but it's been hard and just toshow them that this is an
unfortunate reality at times.
But then expand theconversation and ask them who
has been there for you, what hasbeen something that has been
helpful, help them to start toidentify what their needs are so
(37:14):
they can start to seek that outin others in their life and,
you know, teaching them what'sbeen helpful for you and asking
what's helpful for them.
You know it was so great theother day when your aunt did
this for me and that reallyshowed that she cared.
What's been something thatsomeone's done for you to just
(37:35):
again have them start to buildthat little toolkit of what it
is and who it is that can reallybring that support to them.
Brad Quillen (37:44):
I'm so glad you brought that up to be able to
visualize or pick up on whomight have some empathy right or
is stepping up to the plate oris kind of coming around and
being that good friend.
Erin Nelson (37:56):
Yeah, and I think, like we always say, your
presence is the best gift youcan give, and sometimes it
really is that shoulder time.
It's just like just be thereand let's play video games
together, let's watch a movie,let's just hang out.
And, as we talked about in thebeginning of this episode, it's
how the people walk in the roomand are they easy for you to be
(38:18):
with and do they bring youstrength and can you identify
that they are not depleting yourenergy?
Just to be there with you andjust to for a team to be able to
say, hey, I just like, whenyou're with me, like I just want
to hang out and let's just goand, you know, play catch
together or whatever it might be.
Brad Quillen (38:39):
This has been so interesting to hear as we talk
about the kiddo piece in teens,but it's really something for
everybody and our home forindividuals.
But you know, as families it'sall pieces of that that we need,
kind of that support networkand some of those helps as we
walk through grief.
And, colleen, I'm going to askyou to share a little bit about
an activity that we have in theback of the chapter in the book
(39:01):
on this.
That kind of helps us to walkthrough that, even just in
person with our own kids, tohelp us identify some of those
natural people that are in ourlives that they can come along
and walk with us in this.
Colleen Montague (39:10):
Identify some of those natural people that are
in our lives, that they cancome along and walk with us in
this.
Yeah, and before I start that,I just want to say, when we talk
about your home team, it'squality versus quantity, and so
you may have a small home team,and that's okay.
Yeah, because as long as youhave the right players there for
you, that's going to bring youstrength, that's going to bring
(39:31):
your family strength.
That's going to bring youstrength.
That's going to bring yourfamily strength.
And the reality is, too, your.
Your home team may not always beproximity.
You may have people that arethere for you but live far away,
and so how you can stayconnected with them on the phone
, on FaceTime, whatever measuresyou need to take to be
connected to those that willbring strength to you.
And then even online supportgroups, if you don't have
(39:55):
something in your neighborhoodor where you live.
We've talked about NACG.
org is a search engine where youcan find a grief center more
local to you.
Or, like I said again, onlinesupport groups can be good too.
So home team can look verydifferent for everybody.
An activity we want to inviteyou to do with your child is to
(40:16):
identify who are your people andso getting out a piece of paper
and filling in the blanks withthose in your life that come to
mind so I can share my memoriesof the person who died with.
Who makes you laugh, who do youfeel comfortable crying with,
who can you call when you needsomeone to talk to, when you
(40:37):
want to have fun, who is thebest person to do that with, who
best understands when you justneed to be alone and will give
you your space, and who do youfeel the safest with and give it
some reflection?
You may not think that there'ssomebody right away that comes
to mind, but just be looking forthat person in time, or maybe
(41:00):
there's other needs that youhave that you can identify a
person in your life who can comethrough for you there.
Brad Quillen (41:09):
Erin and Colleen.
This is so good today and thisis such a needed conversation.
We could spend a lot more timeon this.
I know we all thought thatgoing into it, but I sure
appreciate being here with youguys today.
Erin Nelson (41:20):
Thanks, Brad.
Brad Quillen (41:22):
Erin, I know there's something you wanted to
share with our listeners todayas we wrap up this podcast.
Why don't you go ahead and takea moment?
Erin Nelson (41:28):
Just as our listeners have given us really
great feedback.
I just want to say if you couldjust take a moment to rate our
podcast and also write a review.
It helps get it into the handsof those who need it most, and
so every time you review apodcast, it goes up a little bit
(41:49):
into ratings, and so ifsomebody just types in grief in
a podcast search, they can findthis podcast and, as we know
that it's been so helpful forparents who are grieving, we
want to get it into more hands.
So please rate and review.
Brad Quillen (42:06):
Thanks, Erin, and let me remind you be sure to
visit jessicashouse.
org for more grief resources andif you have any other topics or
questions you'd like us tocover on this podcast, we
welcome your email at info@jessicashouse.
org.
Be sure to join us for the nextepisode of When Grief Comes
Home.
Until then, we wish you well.
Gary Shriver (42:27):
Jessica's House is a children's bereavement center
located in California's CentralValley since 2012.
We provide free peer supportfor children, teens, young
adults and their familiesgrieving a loss.
The When Grief Comes Homepodcast goes along with the book
of the same name.
The book When Grief Comes Homeis a gentle guide for parents
(42:49):
who are grieving a partner orchild while helping their
children through the loss oftheir parent or sibling.
When Grief Comes Home is nowavailable at all major book
retailers and if you needgrief-related support, please
visit jessicashouse.
org to download our freeresources and be sure to follow
Jessica's House on social media.
And be sure to follow Jessica'sHouse on social media If you
(43:11):
have any questions or topicsthat you'd like us to explore in
a future episode.
Just send us an email to info@jessicashouse.
org.
Thank you for joining us andwe'll see you next time for When
Grief Comes Home.
Hello and welcome to When Grief Comes Home, a
podcast dedicated to parentsliving through loss while
supporting their child.
Let's meet the team.
Erin Nelson (00:11):
I'm Erin Nelson, founding Executive Director at
Jessica's House.
Colleen Montague (00:15):
Hi, I'm Colleen Montague, Program
Director for Jessica's House anda licensed marriage and family
therapist.
Brad Quillen (00:21):
Hi, I'm Brad Quillen and I'm the host of
Gary Shriver (00:25):
This podcast goes along with a book of the same
name.
The book When Grief Comes Homeis a gentle guide for parents
who are grieving a partner orchild, while helping their
children through the loss oftheir parent or sibling.
When Grief Comes Home is nowavailable at all major book
retailers.
When Grief Comes Home is nowavailable at all major book
(00:47):
retailers.
Now let's go to the team, asthey share grief resources and
coping skills, heartfelt storiesand insights to support parents
as they raise children who aregrieving Together, you'll find
strength as we learn to livewith loss and find ways to heal.
Brad Quillen (01:01):
Well, hello, hello , it's Brad from Jessica's House
.
Today, we're talking aboutthose in your life that can
bring strength to you and yourfamily during this time of grief
.
Over the years, families haveshared with us that they are
surprised at those who show upin their darkest moments, while
others they counted ondisappeared.
Today, we'll explore how griefchanges our relationships and
(01:24):
how to build a support systemthat will actually be there for
you when you need them.
Well, Erin and Colleen, it's sogood to see you and I'm very
happy we are talking about thistopic, because, for all the
years I've sat in groups, thisalways comes up, because there
are some people that we expectto be there and there's some
people that we never knew wouldshow up in the ways in which
(01:46):
they do, and so there's a lot ofgrace, but then there's also a
lot of questions and even morepain, sometimes because of
community and what we thoughtwould happen or the people that
would circle up around us don't.
And so, Erin, I know in yourown life that this has been a
piece of your story and just wascurious if you'd share a bit
about that and how you'velearned some of these lessons
that we're going to talk abouttoday.
Erin Nelson (02:08):
Thank you, Brad, and so glad to be back together
today, and you know when I thinkabout sharing your grief and
community and having the supportthat you need.
It's so important that you canidentify really who adds
strength and comfort to youduring that time and being able
(02:29):
to identify those people andsurround yourself with the
people that don't deplete yourenergy.
And in my own life I know we'vetalked before about the people
around me who gave me so muchstrength and I also had to
realize that everyone has adifferent kind of capacity and
(02:52):
we all have limits in what wecan hold for others when it
comes to their pain.
And some of my friends andfamily members were able to
really hold that and it almostfeels like over my lifetime
we've just taken turns holdingeach other's pain.
It's like you go throughsomething and then they do and
(03:13):
just going back and forth withthat.
But I do remember one time whensomeone close to me just said
it's really hard for me to holdyour pain and it feels like a
lot and I appreciated thathonesty and at the same time, it
was really hard to hear.
So, as our listeners arethinking about who does have the
(03:33):
capacity, and sometimes it'ssituational for those close
friends and family.
Maybe they have something goingon at the time and they're not
able to really be there for you.
Have something going on at thetime and they're not able to
really be there for you, and soidentifying those supporters is
so important.
Brad Quillen (03:49):
So you just said something that I want to come
back to.
You just mentioned a momentago, there are those that gave
me strengths because, if we'rereally honest, there's people
that are givers and takers and Idon't mean that in a that
they're purposely doing that butwe feel exhausted after we've
been with them in grief, or it'swork to be with them.
Or, if I'm really honest and Isee him walking up to the door,
(04:12):
I go, oh, I just don't have ittoday.
Erin Nelson (04:15):
Right and sometimes I've traditionally thought that
if someone does have a griefstory and maybe they've been
through a similar loss, thatthey would be kind of my person.
But sometimes we just all jivelike with different
personalities and just as ahuman we know who it is that we
(04:37):
can just be ourselves with and Ithink it's just that resting
place to know that as they enterthe door, that the impact in
the room is not that significant.
They're able to come into somuch of what we talk about, into
reflection and really readingthe room and knowing what the
(04:57):
needs are in the room.
And some people are reallyreally good at that and others
just aren't.
Brad Quillen (05:03):
Right, they can come in and almost come in and
not be noticed, right.
And then there's some peoplethat come in and I'm going to be
honest drain the room.
Erin Nelson (05:10):
Yeah, yeah, they just take the oxygen.
Brad Quillen (05:15):
Yeah, so here around the house we'll talk
about this quote that AlanWoolfelt says from time to time
on the thirds calling, and socan you explain what we mean
because we share that in groupoften about there's a third of
people, there's a third ofpeople and then there's another
third.
That is kind of eye-opening fora lot of the families here at
Jessica's House.
Colleen Montague (05:31):
What Dr.
Alan Wolfelt has taught us is athird of the people in your
life are going to surprise youwith the ways that they actually
don't come through for you inhow you hoped they would, and
maybe they add hurt to youbecause of that.
A third of the people in yourlife will be more neutral
(05:53):
supporters.
And then there'll be a specialthird that will surprise you in
how they do show up for you andcome through in the ways that
you need and maybe didn't evenrealize the ways that you need.
Brad Quillen (06:09):
Yeah, and there's those people that show up in
little ways that we don't knowabout until later, you know,
especially around funerals inthe first few weeks and those
things.
And I know a friend that, aaron, you and I've known for years
that will just show up and dropoff a nice chest and drive away
and then come back a few dayslater and restock it.
Erin Nelson (06:27):
Right.
I mean we call that the magicice chest and I know we had that
with Carter and we were neverexpecting it.
But as we came home from thehospital, I'll never forget the
next morning going out to mydeck and there was a huge ice
chest on our deck just full ofdrinks and ice.
It was just there, and then thenext day, fresh ice fresh
(06:51):
drinks.
And I know that later we foundout it was someone who had also
lost their son in a car accidentand they were just coming in to
help in a practical way and youknow even just the basics of
staying hydrated when you'recrying a lot and making sure
(07:11):
that the whole family just has aplace to go to just grab some
drinks out of the ice chest, asthey're gathering around and
that becomes kind of even agathering place to just go
outside and know that there aredrinks there.
Brad Quillen (07:24):
Yeah, and it's taking care of some of those
random minute tasks that peoplesometimes just step up and
surprise us and show up and helptake care of those.
How many times we've mowedlawns of different places and
all those things are dishes andcleaning and all the different
things that need to happen.
Erin Nelson (07:42):
All of that.
Earlier this week, colleen andI had this discussion about what
it looks like when you have tokeep the coffee going and how
often you go and everyone's inyour home and you go to reach
for another cup of coffee andthe coffee pot's emptied and
then you have to fill it up andall the things.
(08:02):
But you knowbucks has thosetravelers that are just the
cardboard boxes, and colleenmentioned earlier this week that
she just, you know, pickedthose that was something like
that up and dropped it off at afriend's house and it has all
the cream and the cups and thesugar and everything.
And just putting it onsomeone's front porch, just
(08:24):
showing your support in that way, then they don't have to keep
the coffee going.
You just put it on your counter.
It already has everything youneed.
It's something you can throwaway at the end of the day, and
just making life a little easierreally makes a difference.
Brad Quillen (08:39):
And there are some things that are tangible needs,
but there's some needs thatgrieving people have that I want
to ask you both about a littlebit.
And we talk about the idea ofsome of these being companion
and compassion versus silentindifference, and so I know
those are big words, but can wetake a minute and just kind of
touch base on some of thosethings?
And sometimes people feel likesomeone's there to fix them or
(09:02):
they've now become a project,and that's not what we need in
grief.
Erin Nelson (09:05):
Yeah, and I think when you're grieving, there's
this good silence and thenthere's a silence that feels a
little bit judgmental,especially if you're grieving a
stigmatized death.
Brad Quillen (09:19):
Yeah, so true.
Erin Nelson (09:20):
And sometimes just there can be a silence that
feels like there's a little bitof distance between you and
someone else, and we call thatat Jessica's house, we call that
silent indifference, and it isa painful feeling to be pain,
(09:46):
which is really how we heal, andto be there in compassion and
just mirroring your energy andyour body language.
And if you're sitting, they'resitting with you, they're
leaning in and justunderstanding a little bit more
about what you need and they'rejust coming closer.
Colleen Montague (10:11):
We've talked many times here on the podcast
about the importance ofexpressing your grief in the way
it needs to be felt, and sothat includes surrounding
yourself with the right people,and so what I was thinking when
you were talking about that isthere are going to be those that
try to help, but maybe they'rejust not the right fit for you,
they're not doing it in the waysthat you need, and so it's okay
(10:32):
to give yourself some distancefrom them, you know, and to
instead lean into those that aresupporting you in the right
ways that you need, supportingyou in the right ways that you
need, and also, even if you feelcomfortable enough with maybe
somebody that isn't as helpful,to share what would be helpful,
(10:52):
you know, actually, if you coulddo this, that would really be
helpful to me right now.
Or, you know, I know whatyou're trying to say right now
is something to make me feelbetter, but it's actually not.
It's kind of making it a littleharder.
Erin Nelson (11:04):
What I do need is this it's so true, colleen, and
what you're talking about isjust expressing your needs with
other people, and one kind ofpart of grief that we hear so
much from families is how theyexperience others' discomfort of
being with them in their griefand having someone really
(11:31):
witness your grief and reallywitness the gravity of it To be
able to stay in those momentsthat are so heavy.
And it's so hard for people todo that.
And so when we're thinkingabout grief, so much of the time
people are wanting to fix, sothey're wanting you to pop out
and they're wanting to offersome kind of solution.
(11:52):
So there's such a differencebetween meeting like a physical
need, like hydration or coffeeor helping with the kids, and
actually just trying to cheersomeone up and trying to fix the
situation in some way, and thatenergy can be really hard for
people as well.
So you can learn how toverbalize that, just to say like
(12:13):
my grief is my love for myperson, and if it feels like
sometimes I feel like you wantto fix that, and when I feel
that from you it diminisheswhere I need to be.
Like one mom said, you know myson is worth every tear, and so
that's like her loving him, andif somebody's trying to fix that
(12:36):
, then it can feel unloving fromthe person that is trying to
bring support.
Colleen Montague (12:42):
Yeah, just simply saying this is where I am
right now.
This is where I am right now.
I like that.
Brad Quillen (12:49):
And people will be like well, you don't want to
stay there or we need to move onyou know, and so, to repeat it,
this is where I am right now.
Yeah, yeah, cause we do.
We try and cheer them up, andthat takes me back to minimizing
statements of things thatyou'll have people that you
thought were going to be in thiswith you that would might say,
(13:09):
well, at least they're no longerin pain or they're in a better
place, which could be true, butwe wish they were right next to
us still.
Erin Nelson (13:18):
Exactly Just right there, and the adjustment to not
having someone's physicalpresence in your life is a big
task and it's so hard to livewith that, so allowing somebody
all the space and time that theyneed to adjust to not having
(13:39):
them in their world.
Colleen Montague (13:41):
And so what if you could just say to that
person, if they say, you knowthe, that sentiment, that
they're in a better place sayingto them that's true, and I also
wish they were here with me.
Brad Quillen (13:54):
One, one wife said in group um, they had been
married 57 years or somethinglike that, and somebody in her
family said, well, at least youhad him for 57 years.
And she said I would take himfor another 57.
Yeah, it's that.
Well, at least.
Colleen Montague (14:14):
Yeah, so it's okay to gently push back a
little bit, not in a bad way,but just to gently, to express
how you actually are feeling andto be honored to that how you
actually feel about it, yeah.
Brad Quillen (14:29):
This brings up the fact that we talk about this,
that some, that not everybody,can talk about grief or death
and it's not comfortable, right?
And so a lot of times peopleare trying to help us see the
brighter side, but that's notwhat we need.
But can we just take a minute?
I know Erin you've talked aboutin the store, you know, after
(14:49):
Tyler died.
You know there's some awkwardinteractions or at a different
location, you know, maybedowntown somewhere.
It's like that people don'treact the way they used to just
because there's been a death inthe family.
Erin Nelson (15:00):
Yeah, and I think something and even probably part
of my personality is to pretenda little bit because, you know,
just being in the community,being a leader in the community
and having a lot of very publicdeaths.
But I think what I learnedafter Carter died is congruency
saves my energy.
So when I can really come showup in the world in the way I'm
(15:24):
feeling and not try to goagainst that, then I actually
can just continue to heal and itsaves energy for my healing.
So I had to learn just to besad in the community and to show
up in my sweats and no makeupand just be there and really
even dress and be the way I'mfeeling in that moment and just
(15:49):
to allow the community to see mein a true way and to grieve
like publicly.
Brad Quillen (15:58):
So can I ask you this?
This is what I got Like.
This is.
This is like what I can dotoday, right?
Erin Nelson (16:04):
Yes.
Brad Quillen (16:04):
I'm just, I made do today Right.
Yes, I'm just, I made it here.
Erin Nelson (16:06):
Right.
Brad Quillen (16:07):
My hair's done and I, you know, look like a
million bucks or whatever wewant to say but with the makeup
and everything but this this iswhat I.
This is where I'm at.
This is what I got.
Erin Nelson (16:14):
This is where I am, and this is me showing up in a
true way and letting you justwitness the sadness.
Brad Quillen (16:23):
Yeah, it's kind of like Colleen said it's where
I'm at.
Erin Nelson (16:26):
Exactly, and sometimes we have to show up
physically where we are and behonest.
I think that just honesty andauthenticity is a way to really
teach your community what youneed from them, because, as
we've said before, there's agolden hour.
So when we are working againsthow we're really feeling, if
(16:51):
we're putting that in the worldand we're presenting an image or
a way of being or words thatwe're okay, then the community
thinks we are and then theyreally can't get closer.
Brad Quillen (17:05):
Because there's no difference before and after.
Exactly, if you're all puttogether, you're still running
100 miles an hour and being inall the places and serving on
the committees or volunteeringin this way.
Erin Nelson (17:16):
Exactly, just take a pause, be with your sadness.
Colleen Montague (17:20):
I would add to that when you are authentic in
your grief at home and out andabout, when you have that
congruency, your kids see thattoo, and so you are a model for
them.
We've said that before.
But also that congruency piecematters, because if you're
different at home than out inpublic, your kids take notice of
(17:42):
that.
Not to say there are times whenyou don't want to fall apart in
public and so you have to actas if I get that for sure.
But if you always keep thatstark difference, that's what
you're showing your kids thatthey need to do, that they're
never able to show upauthentically themselves in a
space outside of the home.
Brad Quillen (18:04):
I'm glad you brought up the kid, because the
whole family dynamics change.
And how do we navigate some ofthose things?
Because the reality is there'sgoing to be some tension,
there's going to be someunspoken expectations in
families.
There's a comparison of therelationship, sometimes there's
different levels of grieving, orpeople see that this person in
(18:24):
the family doesn't stop crying,but this person hasn't started
crying, so are they not grieving?
And all those kind of things.
Can we take a few minutes andjust kind of unpack some of
those dynamics?
Colleen Montague (18:35):
Yeah, I think, if you look at it, what you're
saying, brad, is there's kind ofdifferent layers to it.
You could be looking at justyour little nuclear family and
the differences there, and noweach child had a special
relationship with that personwho died, even though maybe it
was, you know, it was their dadand it was both of their dads,
but they both had a uniqueconnection.
(18:57):
But then when you kind of panout a bit, even just with
in-laws, you know and you'regrieving the loss of, let's say,
your husband, your spouse, andyour mother-in-law is grieving
the loss of her son and yoursister-in-law is grieving the
loss of her brother, and soeverybody's hurting.
But what you're saying, brad,is like we can't compare pain
(19:18):
though.
Yeah, it's just pain, yeah, andnobody's is more important or
or valid than the others.
But we're all humans and therewas a before, there was the
relationship with all of thesefamily members before the death,
and some of that is going toabsolutely spill over into the
now and all of the intenseemotions that everybody's
(19:42):
holding right now.
Erin Nelson (19:43):
Yeah, I would add to that that each person.
It's okay if you feel like yourpain is more significant, and
each person may feel that way,like, well, I had this
relationship and it feels likeit's more than that other
relationship, and I know we seethat when we're talking about
(20:04):
even friendships to the personwho died, you know one person
may be like I was really closeto them, but this other person
is saying that they were theirbest friend and so it's okay to
just feel like it's all soweighty and that maybe you do
have a more significantrelationship or your loss is
(20:27):
more significant.
But just that we're honoringthe differences and that we're
honoring the pain of everysingle person.
But your pain is your own andyou feel it so uniquely, so
sometimes you may think and feellike it just is so it's like
(20:48):
more than other people's andit's interesting how you can
just feel that way and it's okayto feel that way too.
Colleen Montague (20:55):
And I think we also have to remember that when
we're grieving we're not thebest version of ourselves
because we are in so much pain,but also, just at baseline, the
physical impacts that grief hason us, on our sleeping abilities
.
Sleep is so disrupted in griefI know I'm never the best
(21:15):
version of myself when I amsleep deprived.
Our appetite has likely changed.
We may not have enough proteinin our body, we may have like
low blood sugar levels, and sojust knowing that about
ourselves and giving ourselves alittle bit of leniency with
that and with yourself too, sobeing able to check in with
(21:37):
yourself to know if somebody'scomment bothered you because it
really was an awful comment, oralso if maybe you weren't in the
right place to receive it atthat time.
Erin Nelson (21:49):
Yeah, like you're saying, colleen, we're so raw,
it's almost like our skin isjust kind of like you've taken
off a few layers of your skinand just everything hurts, and
so some little comments thatnormally we would just integrate
just really easily feel reallybig and just painful and you
(22:10):
know hard.
And so another thing thathappens in grief that's really
interesting is that becausethere's a lot of pain with
everybody, you don't want to addpain, and sometimes little
conflicts that you should beresolving you may be putting off
, and then sometimes those buildup because you think I
(22:30):
shouldn't even bring this upright now, so many big things
are going on and then sometimesthat can deteriorate
relationships.
Colleen Montague (22:38):
I think there can be the flip side too.
You know, if we have, if we'vehad strain in the family before
the death, but maybe now thatwe've lost this person, mutually
, the things that used to matterdon't anymore, and so sometimes
we can see the reverse, wherefamilies just really let go of
those little things and they docome together in support of one
another.
Brad Quillen (22:59):
So if I hear what you guys are saying, everything
is intensified.
Erin Nelson (23:03):
Yeah.
Brad Quillen (23:04):
We need grace, grace, grace.
Erin Nelson (23:06):
It takes a lot of grace for ourselves yeah.
For the whole situation, thosethat we're sitting with and that
are visiting, or our family,but yeah, and to speak that into
the room to say, hey,everyone's so raw right now and
we're naturally going to be moreannoyed with each other and we
will be, we will take moreoffense, and just to say this is
(23:30):
a normal part of grief.
Brad Quillen (23:32):
Yeah, that's what I.
When you were speaking, Ithought we get offended a lot
easier probably.
Yeah, not that we shouldn't beupset at that statement, but
it's just.
We're so, we're out of sleep,we're not eating well, we're raw
, emotionally right.
Erin Nelson (23:44):
Everything is just so intensified, yeah exactly you
know, and your community is asafe place to be that version of
yourself too.
And just to say like, this isnot completely who I've always
been, but this is where I amright now.
Brad Quillen (23:59):
Like Colleen said, yeah, yeah, this is where I am
and I know there's people thatare listening, that are sitting
there and they're asking thequestion, but how in the world
do I tell them how they can help, or what can I say to help or
help them understand what I need?
So, listening to all this, I'vegot to ask the question to you
too, because there's people thatare listening right now that
(24:21):
are still trying to figure out,with all those tensions and all
those feelings and everythingthat's going on.
How do I help someoneunderstand what I need in this
moment or in this day or inthese weeks coming?
Colleen Montague (24:33):
I think it's okay to just be honest with
others and tell them what it isyou need, and that's always
changing, you know, during grief.
So just go with where you areright now, as we've been talking
about, and someone once ontheir social media page, you
know, shared a heart update andthen at the end said here's how
(24:54):
you can help me when you see meout and about, just give me a
hug and say I love you, and thatwas very helpful for her
friends and the family that werereading that to know how to
interact with her.
And so just setting that up inthat way, or if your phone, if
you're getting flooded with youknow, texts and they're all
(25:14):
beautiful and supportive but youjust don't have the capacity to
respond, copy and paste amessage to all of them.
I see your text.
Thanks, I'll get back to yousoon.
Brad Quillen (25:24):
So, colleen, you're talking about the way to
get the word out, in a sense,and the question, aaron, that
always follows when we seesomeone in our American culture
is well, hey, how are you?
How are you doing?
Erin Nelson (25:38):
Yes, it's such a big question, right?
Can't we just say aloha orsomething like that?
Brad, you're wearing a Hawaiianshirt today.
You could adopt a new greetingin America.
So I'm just thinking, you know,that's when you have to do a
quick self check in, right, andyou have to ask yourself if
(25:59):
you're ready for an honestanswer, and even if it's just
kind of partially, becausesometimes that just means hello,
right, if you're at the grocerystore, they're just saying hi.
That's what I mean, that's whatwe default to, that is our
greeting, and so we can just sayI'm fine, you know, and that's
(26:19):
kind of what we have in thatmoment.
But if it is someone that knowskind of where, you know what we
have in that moment, but if itis someone that knows you and
you feel safe enough.
Some of the what we've writtenin the book are some kind of
back pocket responses, which oneof them we wrote was just like
I'm functional, but I'm reallysad, you know, and being able to
(26:40):
say, yeah, I'm here, I'mgrocery shopping right now, but
I'm really, really sad and beingable to say that, or I was
having a really good morning,but now I can feel my grief just
creeping in and I kind of feellike I need a nap right now and
so I'm going to go.
I had one mom who said thatthere would be so many people
(27:02):
that would greet her and thather ice cream would melt in the
grocery store and sometimes shejust needed to kind of get out
of there, and so being able tosay I'm feeling pretty tired and
so I'm going to keep going so Ican go home.
Brad, earlier you talked aboutsomeone else who says at least
statements to you and howunhelpful that can be.
(27:23):
But you know, sometimes we whosays at least statements to you,
and how unhelpful that can be.
But you know, sometimes we givethose at least statements to
ourselves and with our loss wecan say, you know, well, at
least it wasn't my child, or atleast I have support, or at
least I know that I have a houseright now and I have a bed to
(27:43):
sleep in and we can diminish ourown pain.
And so being able to be withyourself and with your pain and
to know that it matters and, youknow, even placing a hand over
our heart, to say I'm givingmyself the compassion I need
(28:09):
right now, because I'm feelingreally incredibly, just sad
right now and I need to be withmyself and not give myself those
at least statements.
Brad Quillen (28:21):
Aaron and Colleen.
Thank you, because that is sogood and so many people
listening that need to behearing this when we come back
from the break.
We're going to talk a littleabout home how to build our own
home team of those folks thatare in our corner, but then also
how do we walk our kiddosthrough some of these things,
too, as well.
Gary Shriver (28:37):
Jessica's House is a children's bereavement center
located in California's CentralValley since 2012.
We provide free peer supportfor children, teens, young
adults and their familiesgrieving a loss.
The when Grief Comes Homepodcast goes along with the book
of the same name.
The book When Grief Comes Homeis a gentle guide for parents
(28:59):
who are grieving a partner orchild while helping their
children through the loss oftheir parent or sibling.
When Grief Comes Home is nowavailable at all major book
retailers and if you needgrief-related support, please
visit jessicashouseorg todownload our free resources.
And be sure to follow Jessica'sHouse on social media and if
(29:23):
you have any questions or topicsthat you'd like us to explore
in a future episode, just sendus an email to info@
jessicashouse.
org.
Brad Quillen (29:29):
Well, welcome back , and Erin and Colleen, that was
so good what we just spent sometime talking about, but the
curiosity I have now is how dowe help our kiddos that are
walking through grief with someof these same dilemmas, one of
those being platitudes we usethe word or those, at least,
statements.
What are some of the ways wecan prepare them for when they
hear some of those in their ownlife?
Erin Nelson (29:50):
Yeah, Brad, I remember working with a child
here at Jessica's House and wewere doing art together.
And she said you know, one ofmy really good friends at school
told me today that their catdied and now she knows what it
feels like to lose someone.
And she said yeah, now I knowhow you feel after your dad died
(30:12):
, because my cat died.
And then she looked at me andshe said a cat is not the same
as a dad.
And she just wanted to say likethat didn't feel right to her.
And so being able and you know,thinking about her, she was able
to express that in the momentto just say that doesn't feel
the same and just like, as wetalked earlier about, it's okay
(30:35):
if you that, if you feel likeyour pain is more, like it feels
like more to you, and so forher she wanted to say having
your dad die it feels like areally big deal and, of course,
a cat is a really big deal toobut in that moment she wanted to
say that doesn't feel the same.
(30:56):
So being able to express that,which is one reason, as our
listeners are hearing us todayto find support where your kids
can be with others who'veexperienced a similar death.
That's why, just at Jessica'sHouse, we try to surround kids
with other parents you know,kids who've lost a parent with
other kids who've also lost aparent.
(31:16):
It can really help you feelunderstood, because so much of
the time they're in settingsevery day where maybe they
aren't really understood and Ithink that's true for adults and
parents as well.
But learning how to speak inthat moment, to be honest and to
say hey, that didn't feelhelpful to me, and giving
(31:39):
language for kids to say it'snot helpful or it doesn't feel
the same, and to express kind ofhow they're feeling, and we can
model that as parents as well.
Colleen Montague (31:51):
Along that same line, Erin.
We can also teach them how theycan teach others who they are
now.
And a lot of times you know thekids and teens they don't want
to be treated differentlybecause of their loss.
They're still a kid, they'restill a teen, and so it's okay
for them to tell their friendsthat hey, I'm still me and I
(32:13):
still like to play, I still liketo do the things I liked to do,
and so let's keep hanging out,you know, in whatever language
feels the best, and so let'skeep hanging out, you know, in
whatever language feels the best.
But being able to A know thatit's okay to want to have some
normalcy and then B to be ableto express that to their friends
(32:34):
, that's what you're going tohelp your kids through.
Brad Quillen (32:38):
Yeah, because there's a reality of I want to
be a kid, but so much of my lifehas changed that I'm going to
hear and feel things differentlynow.
That's what's hard to help kidsgrapple with is that they hear a
statement like that about thecat dynamic, which we all
understand is not the same, butwe've never had to face that
kind of feeling and emotion,especially at eight years old or
(33:01):
13 years old.
And so how do we help kids beready for some of those aha
moments that we didn't realizewe were going to have to prepare
them for?
Erin Nelson (33:09):
Yeah, Brad, and I think what kids teach us that
they want their friends to sayis tell me about your dad.
They want to talk about theperson who died.
They want to engage with theirfriends about whoever it is
their brother, their sister,their dad, whoever it is that
they've lost their mom and justlittle questions, like you, can
(33:32):
teach your friends to say ask mespecific questions about them.
You know what was one of yourfavorite vacations?
How are you like your dad oryour mom?
What was their favorite icecream?
What will you never forgetabout them?
What did their voice sound like?
What was their laugh like?
You know just what wassomething that you love to do
(33:54):
just when you were home alone.
What did they cook that youreally liked?
And I remember just so manystories that we've heard at
Jessica's House and we've hadthe honor of hearing just all
about the person who died.
And I'll never forget somebodylike drawing this bacon wrapped
turkey and how their dad alwaysmade this turkey, and they
(34:17):
wanted to talk all about thatOne time.
You know somebody wanted totalk about how their dad made
the best tacos and that you know, every night he always made
sure that there was dinner onthe table and you know now he's
no longer there and that's areally big hole for them.
So they want to talk about thetacos, and so whatever it is
(34:43):
that kids want to talk about,it's such a gift in with their
memories saying I'll neverforget when your dad was, you
know, coached me on what hetaught me out on the field, or
your mom she always took us toswim, or whatever it is that
they have memories of, and thatis such a gift for someone who's
(35:06):
grieving is to just hear aboutthe person who died, to be asked
about the person who died.
Colleen Montague (35:11):
And sharing with your child that you know,
by bringing up your person andtalking about them, it is
showing your friend that you'reokay to talk about them.
And I was even thinking, aaron,you have a lot of really good
suggestions.
You know, depending on the ageof your child's friend, if you
have a connection with theirparents, you know maybe you can
connect with the parent and justsay, hey, in case your child
(35:35):
wants to know how to interactwith my son now, or what to say.
You know, here are some thingslike I know he's okay talking
about it or he does like tostill talk about his dad.
So just if you want to tellyour child like it's okay to
bring him up if you have thatrelationship with your child's
friend parent so they can equipthem, their child, with how to
(35:57):
support their friend, I think,aaron and Colleen, it's safe to
say that there's going to befriendship dynamics that change
for our kids.
Brad Quillen (36:05):
But I think in all my years here that some of
those dynamics that get changedor affected the most would be
with teens and maybe even youngadults calling.
So what would you say to someof those parents that are
listening that have teens that13, 18, 17, you know that
teenage kid or maybe even ayoung adult, that those
relationships do change a littlebit more sometimes with that
(36:27):
age group?
Colleen Montague (36:30):
To just be real with it, that it stinks,
that that reality that somefriendships are going to change
and you can even share howyou're feeling that yourself
Maybe.
Maybe you're having some harddynamics with a friend and
sharing that with your teen oryour young adult.
Yeah, I was really let down,you know, by so-and-so.
(36:51):
I really thought they you knowcould have been there a little
bit more I'm not reallyunderstanding that right now,
but it's been hard and just toshow them that this is an
unfortunate reality at times.
But then expand theconversation and ask them who
has been there for you, what hasbeen something that has been
helpful, help them to start toidentify what their needs are so
(37:14):
they can start to seek that outin others in their life and,
you know, teaching them what'sbeen helpful for you and asking
what's helpful for them.
You know it was so great theother day when your aunt did
this for me and that reallyshowed that she cared.
What's been something thatsomeone's done for you to just
(37:35):
again have them start to buildthat little toolkit of what it
is and who it is that can reallybring that support to them.
Brad Quillen (37:44):
I'm so glad you brought that up to be able to
visualize or pick up on whomight have some empathy right or
is stepping up to the plate oris kind of coming around and
being that good friend.
Erin Nelson (37:56):
Yeah, and I think, like we always say, your
presence is the best gift youcan give, and sometimes it
really is that shoulder time.
It's just like just be thereand let's play video games
together, let's watch a movie,let's just hang out.
And, as we talked about in thebeginning of this episode, it's
how the people walk in the roomand are they easy for you to be
(38:18):
with and do they bring youstrength and can you identify
that they are not depleting yourenergy?
Just to be there with you andjust to for a team to be able to
say, hey, I just like, whenyou're with me, like I just want
to hang out and let's just goand, you know, play catch
together or whatever it might be.
Brad Quillen (38:39):
This has been so interesting to hear as we talk
about the kiddo piece in teens,but it's really something for
everybody and our home forindividuals.
But you know, as families it'sall pieces of that that we need,
kind of that support networkand some of those helps as we
walk through grief.
And, colleen, I'm going to askyou to share a little bit about
an activity that we have in theback of the chapter in the book
(39:01):
on this.
That kind of helps us to walkthrough that, even just in
person with our own kids, tohelp us identify some of those
natural people that are in ourlives that they can come along
and walk with us in this.
Colleen Montague (39:10):
Identify some of those natural people that are
in our lives, that they cancome along and walk with us in
this.
Yeah, and before I start that,I just want to say, when we talk
about your home team, it'squality versus quantity, and so
you may have a small home team,and that's okay.
Yeah, because as long as youhave the right players there for
you, that's going to bring youstrength, that's going to bring
(39:31):
your family strength.
That's going to bring youstrength.
That's going to bring yourfamily strength.
And the reality is, too, your.
Your home team may not always beproximity.
You may have people that arethere for you but live far away,
and so how you can stayconnected with them on the phone
, on FaceTime, whatever measuresyou need to take to be
connected to those that willbring strength to you.
And then even online supportgroups, if you don't have
(39:55):
something in your neighborhoodor where you live.
We've talked about NACG.
org is a search engine where youcan find a grief center more
local to you.
Or, like I said again, onlinesupport groups can be good too.
So home team can look verydifferent for everybody.
An activity we want to inviteyou to do with your child is to
(40:16):
identify who are your people andso getting out a piece of paper
and filling in the blanks withthose in your life that come to
mind so I can share my memoriesof the person who died with.
Who makes you laugh, who do youfeel comfortable crying with,
who can you call when you needsomeone to talk to, when you
(40:37):
want to have fun, who is thebest person to do that with, who
best understands when you justneed to be alone and will give
you your space, and who do youfeel the safest with and give it
some reflection?
You may not think that there'ssomebody right away that comes
to mind, but just be looking forthat person in time, or maybe
(41:00):
there's other needs that youhave that you can identify a
person in your life who can comethrough for you there.
Brad Quillen (41:09):
Erin and Colleen.
This is so good today and thisis such a needed conversation.
We could spend a lot more timeon this.
I know we all thought thatgoing into it, but I sure
appreciate being here with youguys today.
Erin Nelson (41:20):
Thanks, Brad.
Brad Quillen (41:22):
Erin, I know there's something you wanted to
share with our listeners todayas we wrap up this podcast.
Why don't you go ahead and takea moment?
Erin Nelson (41:28):
Just as our listeners have given us really
great feedback.
I just want to say if you couldjust take a moment to rate our
podcast and also write a review.
It helps get it into the handsof those who need it most, and
so every time you review apodcast, it goes up a little bit
(41:49):
into ratings, and so ifsomebody just types in grief in
a podcast search, they can findthis podcast and, as we know
that it's been so helpful forparents who are grieving, we
want to get it into more hands.
So please rate and review.
Brad Quillen (42:06):
Thanks, Erin, and let me remind you be sure to
visit jessicashouse.
org for more grief resources andif you have any other topics or
questions you'd like us tocover on this podcast, we
welcome your email at info@jessicashouse.
org.
Be sure to join us for the nextepisode of When Grief Comes
Home.
Until then, we wish you well.
Gary Shriver (42:27):
Jessica's House is a children's bereavement center
located in California's CentralValley since 2012.
We provide free peer supportfor children, teens, young
adults and their familiesgrieving a loss.
The When Grief Comes Homepodcast goes along with the book
of the same name.
The book When Grief Comes Homeis a gentle guide for parents
(42:49):
who are grieving a partner orchild while helping their
children through the loss oftheir parent or sibling.
When Grief Comes Home is nowavailable at all major book
retailers and if you needgrief-related support, please
visit jessicashouse.
org to download our freeresources and be sure to follow
Jessica's House on social media.
And be sure to follow Jessica'sHouse on social media If you
(43:11):
have any questions or topicsthat you'd like us to explore in
a future episode.
Just send us an email to info@jessicashouse.
org.
Thank you for joining us andwe'll see you next time for When
Grief Comes Home.
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