May 20, 2025 • 35 mins
Welcome to the When Grief Comes Home podcast. We're glad you're here. This podcast supports parents who are grieving a spouse, partner, or child while helping their children who are living through the loss of a parent or sibling. With personal grief stories and professional guidance, we offer parents practical tips for supporting their child who is grieving while caring for their own grief.
In this raw, honest conversation about grief and belief, Erin Nelson shares her starkly different spiritual journeys through two devastating losses. After her husband died in a plane crash, her faith deepened as she found comfort in scripture and prayer. Yet when her son Carter died years later in a car accident, she found herself furious with God, questioning everything she'd always believed.
The team explores why protest is not just normal but necessary in grief—and how that anger can actually be an expression of profound love. They tackle the well-meaning but sometimes harmful "bright-siding" that happens in faith communities and offer permission to question, doubt, and wrestle with spiritual beliefs without shame.
Please subscribe to the When Grief Comes Home podcast and leave us a review. The more stars, reviews, and downloads the show receives, the more parents and families in grief can find support.
Order the book When Grief Comes Home https://a.co/d/ijaiP5L
For more information on Jessica’s House or for additional resources, please go to jessicashouse.org
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Gary Shriver (00:00):
Hello and welcome to When Grief Comes Home, a
podcast dedicated to parentsliving through loss while
supporting their child.
Let's meet the team.
Erin Nelson (00:11):
I'm Erin Nelson, Founding Executive Director at
Jessica's House.
Colleen Montague (00:15):
Hi, I'm Colleen Montague, Program
Director for Jessica's House anda licensed marriage and family
therapist.
Brad Quillen (00:21):
Hi, I'm Brad Quillen and I'm the host of When
Grief Comes Home.
Gary Shriver (00:25):
This podcast goes along with a book of the same
name.
The book When Grief Comes Homeis a gentle guide for parents
who are grieving a partner orchild, while helping their
children through the loss oftheir parent or sibling.
When Grief Comes Home is nowavailable at all major book
retailers.
Comes Home is now available atall major book retailers.
(00:47):
Now let's go to the team, asthey share grief resources and
coping skills, heartfelt storiesand insights to support parents
as they raise children who aregrieving.
Together, you'll find strengthas we learn to live with loss
and find ways to heal.
Brad Quillen (01:04):
Well, hello, hello, it's Brad from Jessica's
House.
Today we're talking about griefand belief.
If faith is a part of your life, you may notice it's beginning
to reshape after the death ofyour loved one.
You may draw strength andcomfort in God, or perhaps God
has never felt so distant to you.
Our hope today is to offer youthe permission that whatever you
are is just right.
(01:25):
We are speaking from ourpersonal experience and what
families from Jessica's househave taught us over the many
years, just as in our approachto the uniqueness of grief for
each person.
We come here today with an openmind and heart about how faith
may or may not play a role inyour life.
Erin, when I think of faith, Iknow in grief.
(01:45):
I know you and I've spent a lotof time talking about this and
there's a lot of people thattalk about it in group.
But there's times where we havea death in our family and we
feel one way and then there'sanother death and it's just
almost polar opposite for somefolks that kind of I'm going to
use the word rocks them in adifferent way, and so that's a
(02:09):
bit of your story as well, andso would you mind sharing a
little bit about that from yourmemoir?
Erin Nelson (02:12):
Yeah, I think when we're faced with a death, I
don't know if we ever knowexactly how we'll react when it
comes to our spiritual life andjust that part of us that maybe
has a belief, and sometimes ourbeliefs are really shaken or
sometimes they're deepened.
So we never really know howthat will be for us until we
(02:34):
experience a death.
I think when I look back andfor some of our listeners they
may know that my husband Tylerdied in a midair collision when
my children were young and whenI received the phone call and
his brother Gary told me thatyou know, there was no bad
weather.
He was flying home from fishingthat day in Alaska and they
(02:56):
were flying home from fishing toback to the lodge and there was
no real reason why their planewould have collided with another
plane.
And for some reason, just inthe very beginning of that, I
had some kind of sense like Idon't even know just that, a
trusting, and I don't know why Ijust processed it in that way,
(03:19):
but I deepened my faith in Godand I just remember memorizing
scriptures that were reallyimportant to me.
That really brought a lot ofcomfort Verses.
Like you know, God is thedefender of widows and the
father to the fatherless, and toreally hang on to that that
(03:40):
he's my strong tower, you know,he's my ever present help in
times of trouble, Like thoseverses just meant so much to me
and I really held on to them andI remember even like sleeping
with my Bible, because I sleptwith the light on and I would
wake up and really just you knowread, and so I just trusted God
(04:01):
.
In fact, when we it was time todo his grave marker, there was a
quote that I saw that said inhis will is our peace, and I
really resonated with that, thatI was really trusting in God's
will for our family.
As weird as that sounded Idon't know why I process it like
(04:22):
that, but that is how I reallygot through that and found
meaning in that and really letGod really walk us through that
time because, you know, nothaving a spouse anymore to hold
life with, I felt like somehowGod was that close presence to
me that would hold life with meand that, and he had always kind
(04:43):
of been that way for me, and soit just magnified that faith.
Brad Quillen (04:48):
And then when your son Carter was killed from a
car accident, it was kind of theopposite piece as you walk
through those days.
Erin Nelson (04:57):
Yeah, and that surprised me because you know,
immediately I just feltunprotected.
You know it's like you pray allof your life, you know for your
child to have protection.
You know that they'll come homesafe.
You've been praying that and Iprayed that even before he was
born and I really trusted Godwith his life.
(05:19):
And so the night that he didn'tmake it home, I was just really
mad.
I was really mad at God that heallowed that and all of a
sudden I had this feeling oflike maybe we're not really safe
.
Like what was he doing?
Is he sleeping?
Like what in the world?
And so I have to say that Ireally shut down a part of
(05:40):
myself from this you knowrelationship with God.
I didn't feel that comfort fromhim like I did with Tyler and I
was just really mad and I wasin a very raw place of.
We talk a lot at Jessica's houseabout protest and how you know,
when you take something awayfrom a child, they just say no
(06:02):
right.
And so they say no, mine.
And that's what we do whenwe're in grief and that is such
a natural reaction to loss andwhen I think about that, I think
about how a parent is withtheir child.
In that moment, you know justan understanding presence that
you really didn't want that tobe taken away from you.
Right and over time, with myrelationship with God, I really
(06:29):
felt God leaning in in that way.
There's kind of leaning in tojust say, yeah, you really
didn't want this.
And you know, knowing that, thisfaith that I had always had,
since I was a child even, I wasactually raised in a family that
had they were atheists and theydidn't really believe in God,
but I had a very deep faith froma child and it was very real to
(06:51):
me.
But I just felt like God wasjust leaning in, saying, like
you know, I'm going to restoreyour faith in me because it
actually has always come from me.
This isn't about you and havingto conjure up this kind of
belief.
This is from me.
And so I felt like God gave methis spacious place just to be
honest and raw and to doubt himand to be just say why did this
(07:15):
happen?
You know?
Why are you not protecting me?
What else will happen?
And just to be super honest.
And it was very freeing.
Actually, I think I was able toactually grieve Carter's death
in a more real way in thatmoment.
Maybe I didn't feel safe enoughto do that with Tyler I didn't
really ever go there, but it wasactually.
It increased my intimacy withGod and it increased and
(07:38):
deepened my faith, as hard as itwas.
Brad Quillen (07:41):
And there's some that are listening that that
that pain is so deep and so tothe core.
Erin Nelson (07:47):
This was my, my child, absolutely.
Brad Quillen (07:50):
And there's that question of you're all loving
but this is not loving at all,Absolutely.
Erin Nelson (07:55):
Yeah, and I have to say there's a part of me that
still has all the questions.
It's not that it's all gone orit's all better, but I feel God
with me in it and that is acomfort.
Brad Quillen (08:11):
And protest can be loud.
Erin Nelson (08:15):
It's loud.
Brad Quillen (08:16):
It can be ugly Uncomfortable.
Erin Nelson (08:20):
For everyone?
Yeah, and what do you do?
What do you do For everyone?
Yeah, and what do you do?
What do you do?
I heard a story about a childthat would lay in bed at night
and her brother had died.
And she woke up one morning andshe said to her parents at the
(08:44):
like, the night hits and likeyou know, when you lose a child,
I mean it's there is somethingthat takes over you that is so
raw and you have to get it outof your body.
You know we've talked aboutthat before on in our podcast,
but I think, like that protestis such an important part of
(09:04):
grief.
I mean we learn that, like yousaid, you know, as a toddler,
kids fall on the floor.
They learn how to throw theirhead back.
Brad Quillen (09:12):
The tantrum idea yeah.
Erin Nelson (09:13):
Absolutely, you take away their favor.
They're sitting in the highchair and they're throwing their
head back at nine months oldand protesting.
That's inside of us, right,it's a survival skill, and so
being able to see it as that andknow it's a natural part of
grief.
Brad Quillen (09:27):
You know, Erin, I think you and I've done tons of
funerals alongside of familiesand we've seen protests, and the
older I get, the more I see it.
I just go, that's love.
Erin Nelson (09:37):
Oh yeah, I'm so glad you said that, because it's
love.
Brad Quillen (09:42):
That's where it comes from.
Erin Nelson (09:43):
It comes from love, the fact that I miss something
that I love, so much.
Yeah, I heard a mom say that.
You know it's like as theylowered her child's body into
the ground.
She said it was like a reversebirth.
You know they're born into aroom of love and these arms and
hands that welcome them, andthen you have to put them back,
(10:04):
you know, to give them back insome way.
And it's that love where youknow, like we've said, like
there's nowhere for it to go,all that energy and there's
beauty in it.
You know, in the core of it,there's something there that's
so important and it has to beexpressed.
Brad Quillen (10:22):
It's interesting you say that there's beauty in
it, because when we're around itand we've you and Colleen and I
have watched this at the houseand you know when we've done
funerals we've seen it, but itdoesn't seem beautiful when
we're seeing it right.
Or the protest of the kid.
Erin Nelson (10:39):
They're like that.
Ain't beautiful Right.
Brad Quillen (10:41):
But when we're talking about protests in this
grief piece that I don't know,that I've ever thought beauty
with it but, that's true, Likeit's that love piece right.
Erin Nelson (10:51):
Yeah, that's what's underneath it.
Brad Quillen (10:52):
Boy, it's hard to watch sometimes and just yeah,
because it's so raw and we can'tchange it or fix it for that
person that's in it.
Erin Nelson (11:01):
No, you can't, but you can be there and let them
express it to whatever degreeneeds to come out and let them
be welcome it.
I was just with somebody acouple of days ago and they were
apologizing and I was like no,like let it be, you've just
experienced this trauma, you arein this place of protest and
(11:27):
like, just let it be, I'm herefor whatever kind of reaction,
emotion, like I'm here for that,and so it really is such a gift
when you have somebody that canhold that really large reaction
with you.
Brad Quillen (11:41):
And I know we've kind of got off on protest for a
minute talking about grief andbelief.
But then there's that realityof people that when you're in
that protest or when you're inthat low pain of missing, in
those early days and weeks andmonths of grief, where to do try
and cheer you up right, andbecause they don't know what to
(12:02):
do.
So then they say somestatements or make references to
everything's going to be okayor the sunshine comes up again,
or can you and Colleen speak tothat too?
Just that, that opposite pieceof what you were just saying.
We got to just be with them init, but our culture seems to
let's change them.
For the cheery side of things.
Colleen Montague (12:26):
We have all heard that statement of they're
in a better place or you'll seethem again someday, and those
are bright sighting statements.
Look at the bright side.
But we're not in that place.
And so when we receive thatstatement even if it is true in
your heart, you believe you willsee them again someday in
heaven that doesn't mean youdon't want them here with you
(12:46):
right now.
And feeling that way of wantingthem back with you is not going
against your faith either.
It's a natural reaction, anatural desire and yearning to
want them here.
And so you know we might evenbright side ourselves Like, well
, I know I'll see them againsomeday.
(13:07):
I know they were never mine inthe first place, they've always
been God's child.
But when we do that toourselves or when someone does
that to us with theirwell-intended statements, we
negate the chance for us to sitin that grief and just be with
that yearning and to just beauthentic in our grief and in
(13:29):
our desires to want them backwith us.
Erin Nelson (13:32):
I remember when, just going to church over the
years, there was a hymn calledit, "Is Well With my Soul and
the person who wrote it theywould many times there would be
a story alongside this hymn whenit was sung and it was about
this man and his wife had beenon a ship and she and her
(13:53):
children were going from goingto England where he was, and
then he got a note from her andit said all is lost and her
children had all died in thisaccident.
And, as the story goes, he wentto this place of where the
(14:16):
children died and he penned thewords to this hymn it Is Well
With my Soul.
And you know, when I hear thatstory, like we don't really know
everything about that storyright, I'm sure there were some
parts that were skipped abouthis protest and some of those
things.
But sometimes I feel like inchurch cultures there are times
(14:40):
when that protest isn't alwayswelcomed, where sometimes we
skip the part of the grief partwhere, like I was when I would
hear that story, I would think,oh, yeah, when all, if all your
children die, you should justsay it as well with my soul.
And, like Colleen, what you'resaying is, yeah, they're in a
better place and we should alljust be well and to give the
(15:03):
permission to say like it's notalways all well with my soul
right now to not skip the partof the darkness, of the grief
part to be there.
And so sometimes, you know, just, I think we're doing so much
better at that now, even in ourChristian culture, that we have
(15:24):
even here at Jessica's house,and you know, I know you and
Brad, you and I have been in,you know in ministry together
for a really long time and Ithink those conversations are
opening a little bit more.
It's different and that I thinkthe pressure that I used to feel
and maybe that even was thedifference between Tyler's death
and Carter's is just theknowing and the understanding
(15:47):
and a more expansive kind of wayof learning what is healthy
grief, that we don't have toshow up at church with our smile
on.
So I think, as I look back, youknow, when I was grieving Tyler
maybe I was in a more churchculture that didn't embrace and
(16:10):
teach and welcome the protest asmuch and I felt safer to be
honest and not have to show upto church or the grocery store
with a smile on.
So after Carter died just toreally give myself that
permission to grieve, to go intothe darkness, to be honest when
people asked, and not skip toit as well with my soul.
Colleen Montague (16:31):
I remember when one mom shared with me that
after her child died she wasn'tin the headspace to plan the
services and so somebody helpedher with that, and that included
choosing the music selection,and when she was at the funeral
they played it as well with mysoul, which is very common and
in that moment she just thoughtit is not well with my soul and
(16:56):
it just felt so opposite to howshe actually was feeling and it
didn't feel right in that moment.
And so I think what we'retrying to say is that
questioning God and aching foryour loved one doesn't mean
you've lost your faith.
Holding opposites of faith andfear, belief and unbelief, trust
(17:16):
and doubt means you're human.
Brad Quillen (17:19):
We were in group one time and a mom was talking
about the fact of safety thatsomeone had mentioned.
You know that they're now safebecause they're with God and she
.
Her rebuttal to them in herhead was they'd be safe with me
too.
Right, and I didn't think anydifferently of her.
But that's just our first gutreaction.
(17:39):
Is we miss them and we wantthem, or that there's peace when
all my kids are in the houseand I know where they're at in
my home at night when I go tobed?
Yes, but now one's missing.
Erin Nelson (17:51):
Yeah, when someone's missing, and I think
even in a family, every personhas a different way of relating
to the loss when it comes totheir faith.
So just even trusting andgiving each other the space to
process that in their ownindividual way and their own
individual faith as well.
Brad Quillen (18:12):
Because you would say you and your husband, Brian,
when Carter died, processedthat differently.
In a lot of ways faith, butalso Brian wanted people around
and you were more kind of byyourself in some of those things
, but it's just very differentin the way that that even plays
into it with faith.
Erin Nelson (18:29):
Absolutely.
Each person in the family has adifferent relationship with God
or with their spirituality andhow they feel connected, and I
really think that the loss of aloved one is a spiritual wound,
it is a soul wound, and so whenwe think about grief, it's soul
work, so it is.
(18:50):
It does involve some type ofyou know process in that way,
and so it's in each person in afamily and the people around you
, the friends and family.
They're going to do thatdifferently.
Colleen Montague (19:05):
Adding to what you're saying, Erin.
On the flip side are those thatmay be very comforted right now
by their faith.
That might be the one thingthat they're really holding on
to, like you did with Tyler'sdeath of you know.
I know God can get me throughthis, like I know you know he
will be there for me, and that'sokay too.
It's really.
(19:25):
It always just comes back downto where you are, is where you
are, and it could be differentamong a family.
Erin Nelson (19:31):
Absolutely, and I think too, just with churches,
you know, that can bring so muchstrength of faith.
Community, whatever that mightlook like Surrounding you, can
bring a lot of comfort and manytimes there's just an
organization in that, wherethere's something in place
whether that's a dinner afterthe funeral or something like
that where that can bring a lotof strength to a family.
Brad Quillen (19:56):
Erin, I'm glad you said that because, Colleen, we
were talking earlier about justsome of those other ways that
you can nurture yourspirituality.
Do you want to share a few ofthose before we go to break?
Colleen Montague (20:04):
Being in nature, meditation, yoga,
connection with animals.
Those are all other ways tojust be in wonder in the world,
you know, including, like whatwe talked about before, of just
the signs that people can feelconnected to within nature and
(20:25):
feeling like those are sent fromtheir person wherever they may
be.
And you know we've talked aboutbutterflies, hummingbirds, a
fox, as Carter shows up as avibrant sunset.
I recently heard about feathers.
Erin Nelson (20:41):
People find connection with pennies, pennies
from heaven seeing a penny andpicking it up and putting it in
your pocket.
My daughter was at a baseballgame We've been doing a lot of
baseball lately and she saidthere was a ladybug that landed
on her and she said, oh, hey,carter.
(21:01):
And then the mom next to hersaid oh, you do that in your
family too.
That's what I call my mom, andso it's just like all kinds of
ways that you can feel connectedand that kind of feels a little
spiritual too.
It's like a little bit ofheaven mixed in.
Brad Quillen (21:19):
Yes, you guys.
That's so good because I'mcurious with those that are
listening how many differentways their person shows up.
We'd love to hear from you atinfo at Jessica's House.
You could let us know how thathappens for you, and we'll be
back right after this break.
Gary Shriver (21:35):
Jessica's House is a children's bereavement center
located in California's CentralValley since 2012.
We provide free peer supportfor children, teens, young
adults and their familiesgrieving a loss.
The When Grief Comes Homepodcast goes along with the book
of the same name.
The book When Grief Comes Homeis a gentle guide for parents
(21:57):
who are grieving a partner orchild while helping their
children through the loss oftheir parent or sibling.
When Grief Comes Home is nowavailable at all major book
retailers and if you needgrief-related support, please
visit jessicashouseorg todownload our free resources and
be sure to follow Jessica'sHouse on social media free
resources and be sure to followJessica's House on social media,
and if you have any questionsor topics that you'd like us to
(22:19):
explore in a future episode,just send us an email to info at
jessicashouse.
org.
Brad Quillen (22:27):
Hey, welcome back from the break and we are going
to talk a little bit about howdo we talk to our kiddos about
grief and belief.
I'll never forget the questionI got from a parent in a group
one time that said how do youexplain how to get to heaven?
And I kind of went what Explainthat to me?
This mom had shared that her asher husband had died and she
(22:50):
had told her son that that Dadwas in heaven.
His logical response was well,where's that?
And then he just proceeded tosay well, let's just go there so
we can see dad.
And that's just the logic thatthis little guy was using.
But it reminds me that, erin,you had a very similar story
like that with your son, withCody.
Erin Nelson (23:11):
Yeah, I'll never forget that.
Just hanging out with him veryearly on after Tyler died and he
had heard about heaven anddad's in heaven you know from,
we had a just house full ofpeople and it was very shortly
after Tyler died, and so he saidyou know, daddy's in heaven,
but we can just get the ladderthere was the ladder outside and
(23:32):
just put it on top of the roofand just reach really high.
And I think when we're thinkingabout kids, you know, at that
time I could just wish with himand wonder with him, like what
would that be like?
I wonder what that would belike.
And so, just, you know, heavencan feel super abstract for a
child, you know, when they'retalking about it.
(23:52):
And just like you said, likehow do you explain that to a
child?
We all have these differentbeliefs of what we hope heaven
is like right.
I mean, so many kids have eventalked about in group their pet,
you know, will they be there?
And just all of those pieces.
And you know, I think this ideaof what happens to us after we
(24:13):
die is so complex and everyonehas a different hope and wish
and, you know, a differentperspective and I think kids are
the same, and so we weretalking earlier about how we can
just ask them like what do youthink heaven's?
Like, what would you want to bethere in heaven?
And just really giving themthat back to them.
(24:34):
Even when we're talking aboutpets, it's like do you want,
would you want your dog to bethere, you know, and just hope
with them.
Well, I really hope so too.
Brad Quillen (24:43):
And it's not until there's a death that they're
confronted with that question ofwhat happens.
Erin Nelson (24:48):
What happens.
And I remember that shift frompresent, you know, from that
presence, to like we wouldalways pray in our family for
each other and putting the kidsto bed, and every night they
said and we hope daddy has agood day at work.
And so then now then theystarted seeing and we hope daddy
(25:08):
has a really good day in heaven, and just that kind of shift of
the.
You know, when it was like theywere in your everyday life and
now they're in this abstractplace and you kind of want to
imagine where they're them there.
Brad Quillen (25:22):
What does that look like?
What does that look like?
Erin Nelson (25:24):
What are they doing ?
And so, yeah, we just wouldjust kind of wonder together and
I think kids, they have thebest ideas when it comes to some
of those things right and tolearn from them have the best
ideas when it comes to some ofthose things right and to learn
from them.
Colleen Montague (25:44):
You know we've talked a lot about the
Christian perspective of youknow an afterlife and heaven,
but we want to honor that.
So many of our listeners mayalso not have that, you know.
They may not have thatreligious belief.
They may not know what theybelieve.
They may believe that there isno afterlife, that once you die
you are gone.
You may believe inreincarnation.
There's so many differentquestions out there and beliefs
(26:05):
and so just leaning into thatfor yourself, knowing that you
might be questioning what youalways wondered or hoped to be
true and that's true for yourkids too.
You know, hoped to be true, andthat's true for your kids too.
You know, recently my daughterhas been entertaining the idea
of reincarnation, and she's veryyoung.
But you know she asks me youknow, when you come back after
(26:26):
you die, what animal would youwant to be?
And even though that's not mybelief, I'm not going to shoot
down those wonderings.
I just enter into that spacewith her and I tell her well, I
hope I'm a bird, because I wouldlove to fly.
What would you want to be?
And so entertaining thosewonderings won't do any harm.
It just gives them the space toexplore their beliefs in that
(26:49):
moment, their wonderings, Ishould say.
Erin Nelson (26:52):
Yeah, I think about a dad who had a teen son and
you know his son, you know, intheir family they did believe in
heaven.
And his son just kind of justsaid I don't believe in heaven
anymore.
And if mom died and God allowedthat, that's just not what I'll
believe in.
And you know, he didn't want tobelieve in God anymore.
(27:14):
And his dad was reallywrestling with that and then he
was able to say, okay, I'm justgoing to sit with you in that
and wonder with you.
And so they just processed thattogether and I think they had
to come together on that issue.
The dad, his faith was soimportant to him but his son
wasn't adopting that at thattime and it was understandable.
(27:36):
And they had to just kind ofcome together in their family
and just allow everyone to havethose beliefs during that time
and to really find out what theybelieved and to work through
some of those.
Colleen Montague (27:49):
It's another layer to that idea that everyone
is grieving differently.
It's just another layer to thatthat everyone's going to be in
a different place.
With that too, possibly, andinstead of turning someone away
because theirs is different thanyours, leaning in.
Erin Nelson (28:06):
Yeah, as we lean in and we've talked a lot even in
volunteer training about youknow, when someone is
questioning God and they're madat God, that we're just sitting
shoulder to shoulder with them,just being with them in that as
they can process their anger andquestioning their beliefs.
I think you question yourmortality.
When someone that's in youreveryday life dies, it just
(28:30):
makes you do a review on yourlife and what you believe and
wondering where they are, andsometimes it's the first time
you've ever been faced with that.
So it's just a natural part ofgrief that you're going to
wonder about that and really,like I know, brad, for you,
you've been a pastor for so manyyears, you've sat through with
so many families and I'm sureyou've seen such a range in
(28:53):
reactions to what people believe.
Brad Quillen (28:56):
Over the years sitting with folks as you were
talking about.
I think it's safe to say, as youeven opened up the podcast
about the difference betweenwhen Tyler died and when Carter
died.
I think that's true across theboard that if something were to
happen in my family, there's ahope that I think I would
approach it with.
But I don't know, until I'mthere and I think that's a safe
(29:19):
statement for everybody.
Until we're confronted withthat, we think or we hope or we
aspire that we'd react a certainway or trust in certain ways.
But until we're there, I thinkit's too much of an abstract
even, and I've sat with a lot ofpeople, you know, towards the
end of life as well, um, withdiagnosages and those things.
(29:42):
But to learn from them asthey've walked close and get
closer to heaven's door, I I'velearned a lot and thought I hope
I'm as graceful as they are.
But then there's also peoplethat are really mad and
frustrated and I think thatwould be one of the biggest
pieces is until we're confrontedwith those, those mortality
(30:04):
issues that when that was,people would say when the rubber
hits the road.
Erin Nelson (30:09):
Yeah, and I think about you and just even your
role as a chaplain and just asyou come alongside people that
have had trauma, you know it's,you know when you can just be
with them and their anger andallow them to express all of
(30:31):
their doubt and you know all theways they wish that and allow
everyone to work through theirquestions and have an honest
conversation or even justexplore faith for the first time
, whatever it is.
Just yeah, there's no right orwrong way.
Brad Quillen (30:52):
And I think that's what we're saying with your
kiddos is just let them explorethat and ask those questions and
not shy away from even saying Idon't know.
Colleen Montague (31:01):
Yeah, absolutely, because when you do
let them have that space forwondering, it creates a safe
place for them to sit throughtheir own thoughts as they're
processing it for themselves.
And I wonder too if it's okayto admit when you are unsure
yourself, you know, like whywould that?
Why would God let this happento my brother?
(31:22):
Can you say to them?
You know, I'm wondering thesame thing right now.
Brad Quillen (31:27):
I'm having a hard time with that too yeah,
admitting that, and just well,I've, I've I can't tell you how
many times I've said God,they're one of the good ones,
like pillars in the community,good dads or good moms, right,
and they accident illness, youknow, whatever age that is.
But I've said numerous times,they're one of the good ones.
(31:49):
Like we need these.
These are the good ones we needaround, but this one doesn't
make sense to me.
Erin Nelson (31:55):
This doesn't add up .
Yeah, just the questions thatwe all have after someone dies.
Brad Quillen (32:01):
And it would be more so with kiddos.
Erin Nelson (32:04):
Oh yeah, it does not make sense.
Brad Quillen (32:08):
One person in group taught me she had said you
know, brad, I realized I alwaysneeded my mom.
You always need your parents.
Erin Nelson (32:17):
Absolutely, and so to not have that it makes us
think differently.
It really does.
And why would God allow my momnot to be here for me when I
need her so much and no one canreplace your mom?
And to live your whole lifewithout him?
It just doesn't seem right.
Brad Quillen (32:35):
Erin, that's so true because we need to just
acknowledge where we're at andthat can't change, unfortunately
, and that also is the realityfor kind of exploring some of
those questions with our kiddosand the doubts that they have
too.
But you have an exercise, a wayfor kids to be able to kind of
explore that and even share that.
And you might be wondering howdo I get my kid to share, and so
(32:57):
would you share the clayanalogy with that for kiddos to
be able to do that?
Erin Nelson (33:01):
Yeah, just in the book when Grief Comes Home, at
the end of every chapter we havean activity that parents can do
with their children, and one ofthem is just using clay.
And I'm just thinking aboutthat child or even that adult in
our listeners today who they'rejust mad at God.
And so we just talked aboutlike you get that clay and you
(33:23):
just throw it on the table.
Maybe you throw it against awall and maybe you change its
shape, and maybe you change itsshape into what your anger looks
like.
You know, maybe you change itsshape into what you hope is in
heaven and you know, just beingable to use that clay in a way
that really gets that energy ofwhatever you're feeling in your
(33:47):
body when it comes to justreally protesting this situation
that you never asked for, younever wanted this to touch your
family, but get it out andwhatever we can do to get the
energy of grief and rage andanger and all the questions you
might have around this persondying.
(34:08):
Just get it out and let it be.
Brad Quillen (34:11):
Erin and Colleen, thank you.
Thank you for this podcasttoday.
It's a tough subject but it's agood one to talk about and, for
those of you listening, visitus at jessicashouseorg for more
grief resources and if you havea topic or question you'd like
us to cover on this podcast.
We welcome your email at info@jessicashouse.
org.
Be sure to join us next timefor another episode of When
(34:33):
Grief Comes Home.
Until then, we wish you well.
Gary Shriver (34:40):
Episode of When Grief Comes Home.
Until then, we wish you well.
Jessica's House is a children'sbereavement center located in
California's Central Valleysince 2012.
We provide free peer supportfor children, teens, young
adults and their familiesgrieving a loss.
The When Grief Comes Homepodcast goes along with the book
of the same name.
The book When Grief Comes Homeis a gentle guide for parents
(35:00):
who are grieving a partner orchild while helping their
children through the loss oftheir parent or sibling.
When Grief Comes Home is nowavailable at all major book
retailers and if you needgrief-related support, please
visit jessicashouse.
org to download our freeresources and be sure to follow
Jessica's House on social media.
If you have any questions ortopics that you'd like us to
(35:23):
explore in a future episode,just send us an email to info@
jessicashouseorg.
Thank you for joining us andwe'll see you next time for When
Grief Comes Home.
Hello and welcome to When Grief Comes Home, a
podcast dedicated to parentsliving through loss while
supporting their child.
Let's meet the team.
Erin Nelson (00:11):
I'm Erin Nelson, Founding Executive Director at
Jessica's House.
Colleen Montague (00:15):
Hi, I'm Colleen Montague, Program
Director for Jessica's House anda licensed marriage and family
therapist.
Brad Quillen (00:21):
Hi, I'm Brad Quillen and I'm the host of When
Grief Comes Home.
Gary Shriver (00:25):
This podcast goes along with a book of the same
name.
The book When Grief Comes Homeis a gentle guide for parents
who are grieving a partner orchild, while helping their
children through the loss oftheir parent or sibling.
When Grief Comes Home is nowavailable at all major book
retailers.
Comes Home is now available atall major book retailers.
(00:47):
Now let's go to the team, asthey share grief resources and
coping skills, heartfelt storiesand insights to support parents
as they raise children who aregrieving.
Together, you'll find strengthas we learn to live with loss
and find ways to heal.
Brad Quillen (01:04):
Well, hello, hello, it's Brad from Jessica's
House.
Today we're talking about griefand belief.
If faith is a part of your life, you may notice it's beginning
to reshape after the death ofyour loved one.
You may draw strength andcomfort in God, or perhaps God
has never felt so distant to you.
Our hope today is to offer youthe permission that whatever you
are is just right.
(01:25):
We are speaking from ourpersonal experience and what
families from Jessica's househave taught us over the many
years, just as in our approachto the uniqueness of grief for
each person.
We come here today with an openmind and heart about how faith
may or may not play a role inyour life.
Erin, when I think of faith, Iknow in grief.
(01:45):
I know you and I've spent a lotof time talking about this and
there's a lot of people thattalk about it in group.
But there's times where we havea death in our family and we
feel one way and then there'sanother death and it's just
almost polar opposite for somefolks that kind of I'm going to
use the word rocks them in adifferent way, and so that's a
(02:09):
bit of your story as well, andso would you mind sharing a
little bit about that from yourmemoir?
Erin Nelson (02:12):
Yeah, I think when we're faced with a death, I
don't know if we ever knowexactly how we'll react when it
comes to our spiritual life andjust that part of us that maybe
has a belief, and sometimes ourbeliefs are really shaken or
sometimes they're deepened.
So we never really know howthat will be for us until we
(02:34):
experience a death.
I think when I look back andfor some of our listeners they
may know that my husband Tylerdied in a midair collision when
my children were young and whenI received the phone call and
his brother Gary told me thatyou know, there was no bad
weather.
He was flying home from fishingthat day in Alaska and they
(02:56):
were flying home from fishing toback to the lodge and there was
no real reason why their planewould have collided with another
plane.
And for some reason, just inthe very beginning of that, I
had some kind of sense like Idon't even know just that, a
trusting, and I don't know why Ijust processed it in that way,
(03:19):
but I deepened my faith in Godand I just remember memorizing
scriptures that were reallyimportant to me.
That really brought a lot ofcomfort Verses.
Like you know, God is thedefender of widows and the
father to the fatherless, and toreally hang on to that that
(03:40):
he's my strong tower, you know,he's my ever present help in
times of trouble, Like thoseverses just meant so much to me
and I really held on to them andI remember even like sleeping
with my Bible, because I sleptwith the light on and I would
wake up and really just you knowread, and so I just trusted God
(04:01):
.
In fact, when we it was time todo his grave marker, there was a
quote that I saw that said inhis will is our peace, and I
really resonated with that, thatI was really trusting in God's
will for our family.
As weird as that sounded Idon't know why I process it like
(04:22):
that, but that is how I reallygot through that and found
meaning in that and really letGod really walk us through that
time because, you know, nothaving a spouse anymore to hold
life with, I felt like somehowGod was that close presence to
me that would hold life with meand that, and he had always kind
(04:43):
of been that way for me, and soit just magnified that faith.
Brad Quillen (04:48):
And then when your son Carter was killed from a
car accident, it was kind of theopposite piece as you walk
through those days.
Erin Nelson (04:57):
Yeah, and that surprised me because you know,
immediately I just feltunprotected.
You know it's like you pray allof your life, you know for your
child to have protection.
You know that they'll come homesafe.
You've been praying that and Iprayed that even before he was
born and I really trusted Godwith his life.
(05:19):
And so the night that he didn'tmake it home, I was just really
mad.
I was really mad at God that heallowed that and all of a
sudden I had this feeling oflike maybe we're not really safe
.
Like what was he doing?
Is he sleeping?
Like what in the world?
And so I have to say that Ireally shut down a part of
(05:40):
myself from this you knowrelationship with God.
I didn't feel that comfort fromhim like I did with Tyler and I
was just really mad and I wasin a very raw place of.
We talk a lot at Jessica's houseabout protest and how you know,
when you take something awayfrom a child, they just say no
(06:02):
right.
And so they say no, mine.
And that's what we do whenwe're in grief and that is such
a natural reaction to loss andwhen I think about that, I think
about how a parent is withtheir child.
In that moment, you know justan understanding presence that
you really didn't want that tobe taken away from you.
Right and over time, with myrelationship with God, I really
(06:29):
felt God leaning in in that way.
There's kind of leaning in tojust say, yeah, you really
didn't want this.
And you know, knowing that, thisfaith that I had always had,
since I was a child even, I wasactually raised in a family that
had they were atheists and theydidn't really believe in God,
but I had a very deep faith froma child and it was very real to
(06:51):
me.
But I just felt like God wasjust leaning in, saying, like
you know, I'm going to restoreyour faith in me because it
actually has always come from me.
This isn't about you and havingto conjure up this kind of
belief.
This is from me.
And so I felt like God gave methis spacious place just to be
honest and raw and to doubt himand to be just say why did this
(07:15):
happen?
You know?
Why are you not protecting me?
What else will happen?
And just to be super honest.
And it was very freeing.
Actually, I think I was able toactually grieve Carter's death
in a more real way in thatmoment.
Maybe I didn't feel safe enoughto do that with Tyler I didn't
really ever go there, but it wasactually.
It increased my intimacy withGod and it increased and
(07:38):
deepened my faith, as hard as itwas.
Brad Quillen (07:41):
And there's some that are listening that that
that pain is so deep and so tothe core.
Erin Nelson (07:47):
This was my, my child, absolutely.
Brad Quillen (07:50):
And there's that question of you're all loving
but this is not loving at all,Absolutely.
Erin Nelson (07:55):
Yeah, and I have to say there's a part of me that
still has all the questions.
It's not that it's all gone orit's all better, but I feel God
with me in it and that is acomfort.
Brad Quillen (08:11):
And protest can be loud.
Erin Nelson (08:15):
It's loud.
Brad Quillen (08:16):
It can be ugly Uncomfortable.
Erin Nelson (08:20):
For everyone?
Yeah, and what do you do?
What do you do For everyone?
Yeah, and what do you do?
What do you do?
I heard a story about a childthat would lay in bed at night
and her brother had died.
And she woke up one morning andshe said to her parents at the
(08:44):
like, the night hits and likeyou know, when you lose a child,
I mean it's there is somethingthat takes over you that is so
raw and you have to get it outof your body.
You know we've talked aboutthat before on in our podcast,
but I think, like that protestis such an important part of
(09:04):
grief.
I mean we learn that, like yousaid, you know, as a toddler,
kids fall on the floor.
They learn how to throw theirhead back.
Brad Quillen (09:12):
The tantrum idea yeah.
Erin Nelson (09:13):
Absolutely, you take away their favor.
They're sitting in the highchair and they're throwing their
head back at nine months oldand protesting.
That's inside of us, right,it's a survival skill, and so
being able to see it as that andknow it's a natural part of
grief.
Brad Quillen (09:27):
You know, Erin, I think you and I've done tons of
funerals alongside of familiesand we've seen protests, and the
older I get, the more I see it.
I just go, that's love.
Erin Nelson (09:37):
Oh yeah, I'm so glad you said that, because it's
love.
Brad Quillen (09:42):
That's where it comes from.
Erin Nelson (09:43):
It comes from love, the fact that I miss something
that I love, so much.
Yeah, I heard a mom say that.
You know it's like as theylowered her child's body into
the ground.
She said it was like a reversebirth.
You know they're born into aroom of love and these arms and
hands that welcome them, andthen you have to put them back,
(10:04):
you know, to give them back insome way.
And it's that love where youknow, like we've said, like
there's nowhere for it to go,all that energy and there's
beauty in it.
You know, in the core of it,there's something there that's
so important and it has to beexpressed.
Brad Quillen (10:22):
It's interesting you say that there's beauty in
it, because when we're around itand we've you and Colleen and I
have watched this at the houseand you know when we've done
funerals we've seen it, but itdoesn't seem beautiful when
we're seeing it right.
Or the protest of the kid.
Erin Nelson (10:39):
They're like that.
Ain't beautiful Right.
Brad Quillen (10:41):
But when we're talking about protests in this
grief piece that I don't know,that I've ever thought beauty
with it but, that's true, Likeit's that love piece right.
Erin Nelson (10:51):
Yeah, that's what's underneath it.
Brad Quillen (10:52):
Boy, it's hard to watch sometimes and just yeah,
because it's so raw and we can'tchange it or fix it for that
person that's in it.
Erin Nelson (11:01):
No, you can't, but you can be there and let them
express it to whatever degreeneeds to come out and let them
be welcome it.
I was just with somebody acouple of days ago and they were
apologizing and I was like no,like let it be, you've just
experienced this trauma, you arein this place of protest and
(11:27):
like, just let it be, I'm herefor whatever kind of reaction,
emotion, like I'm here for that,and so it really is such a gift
when you have somebody that canhold that really large reaction
with you.
Brad Quillen (11:41):
And I know we've kind of got off on protest for a
minute talking about grief andbelief.
But then there's that realityof people that when you're in
that protest or when you're inthat low pain of missing, in
those early days and weeks andmonths of grief, where to do try
and cheer you up right, andbecause they don't know what to
(12:02):
do.
So then they say somestatements or make references to
everything's going to be okayor the sunshine comes up again,
or can you and Colleen speak tothat too?
Just that, that opposite pieceof what you were just saying.
We got to just be with them init, but our culture seems to
let's change them.
For the cheery side of things.
Colleen Montague (12:26):
We have all heard that statement of they're
in a better place or you'll seethem again someday, and those
are bright sighting statements.
Look at the bright side.
But we're not in that place.
And so when we receive thatstatement even if it is true in
your heart, you believe you willsee them again someday in
heaven that doesn't mean youdon't want them here with you
(12:46):
right now.
And feeling that way of wantingthem back with you is not going
against your faith either.
It's a natural reaction, anatural desire and yearning to
want them here.
And so you know we might evenbright side ourselves Like, well
, I know I'll see them againsomeday.
(13:07):
I know they were never mine inthe first place, they've always
been God's child.
But when we do that toourselves or when someone does
that to us with theirwell-intended statements, we
negate the chance for us to sitin that grief and just be with
that yearning and to just beauthentic in our grief and in
(13:29):
our desires to want them backwith us.
Erin Nelson (13:32):
I remember when, just going to church over the
years, there was a hymn calledit, "Is Well With my Soul and
the person who wrote it theywould many times there would be
a story alongside this hymn whenit was sung and it was about
this man and his wife had beenon a ship and she and her
(13:53):
children were going from goingto England where he was, and
then he got a note from her andit said all is lost and her
children had all died in thisaccident.
And, as the story goes, he wentto this place of where the
(14:16):
children died and he penned thewords to this hymn it Is Well
With my Soul.
And you know, when I hear thatstory, like we don't really know
everything about that storyright, I'm sure there were some
parts that were skipped abouthis protest and some of those
things.
But sometimes I feel like inchurch cultures there are times
(14:40):
when that protest isn't alwayswelcomed, where sometimes we
skip the part of the grief partwhere, like I was when I would
hear that story, I would think,oh, yeah, when all, if all your
children die, you should justsay it as well with my soul.
And, like Colleen, what you'resaying is, yeah, they're in a
better place and we should alljust be well and to give the
(15:03):
permission to say like it's notalways all well with my soul
right now to not skip the partof the darkness, of the grief
part to be there.
And so sometimes, you know, just, I think we're doing so much
better at that now, even in ourChristian culture, that we have
(15:24):
even here at Jessica's house,and you know, I know you and
Brad, you and I have been in,you know in ministry together
for a really long time and Ithink those conversations are
opening a little bit more.
It's different and that I thinkthe pressure that I used to feel
and maybe that even was thedifference between Tyler's death
and Carter's is just theknowing and the understanding
(15:47):
and a more expansive kind of wayof learning what is healthy
grief, that we don't have toshow up at church with our smile
on.
So I think, as I look back, youknow, when I was grieving Tyler
maybe I was in a more churchculture that didn't embrace and
(16:10):
teach and welcome the protest asmuch and I felt safer to be
honest and not have to show upto church or the grocery store
with a smile on.
So after Carter died just toreally give myself that
permission to grieve, to go intothe darkness, to be honest when
people asked, and not skip toit as well with my soul.
Colleen Montague (16:31):
I remember when one mom shared with me that
after her child died she wasn'tin the headspace to plan the
services and so somebody helpedher with that, and that included
choosing the music selection,and when she was at the funeral
they played it as well with mysoul, which is very common and
in that moment she just thoughtit is not well with my soul and
(16:56):
it just felt so opposite to howshe actually was feeling and it
didn't feel right in that moment.
And so I think what we'retrying to say is that
questioning God and aching foryour loved one doesn't mean
you've lost your faith.
Holding opposites of faith andfear, belief and unbelief, trust
(17:16):
and doubt means you're human.
Brad Quillen (17:19):
We were in group one time and a mom was talking
about the fact of safety thatsomeone had mentioned.
You know that they're now safebecause they're with God and she
.
Her rebuttal to them in herhead was they'd be safe with me
too.
Right, and I didn't think anydifferently of her.
But that's just our first gutreaction.
(17:39):
Is we miss them and we wantthem, or that there's peace when
all my kids are in the houseand I know where they're at in
my home at night when I go tobed?
Yes, but now one's missing.
Erin Nelson (17:51):
Yeah, when someone's missing, and I think
even in a family, every personhas a different way of relating
to the loss when it comes totheir faith.
So just even trusting andgiving each other the space to
process that in their ownindividual way and their own
individual faith as well.
Brad Quillen (18:12):
Because you would say you and your husband, Brian,
when Carter died, processedthat differently.
In a lot of ways faith, butalso Brian wanted people around
and you were more kind of byyourself in some of those things
, but it's just very differentin the way that that even plays
into it with faith.
Erin Nelson (18:29):
Absolutely.
Each person in the family has adifferent relationship with God
or with their spirituality andhow they feel connected, and I
really think that the loss of aloved one is a spiritual wound,
it is a soul wound, and so whenwe think about grief, it's soul
work, so it is.
(18:50):
It does involve some type ofyou know process in that way,
and so it's in each person in afamily and the people around you
, the friends and family.
They're going to do thatdifferently.
Colleen Montague (19:05):
Adding to what you're saying, Erin.
On the flip side are those thatmay be very comforted right now
by their faith.
That might be the one thingthat they're really holding on
to, like you did with Tyler'sdeath of you know.
I know God can get me throughthis, like I know you know he
will be there for me, and that'sokay too.
It's really.
(19:25):
It always just comes back downto where you are, is where you
are, and it could be differentamong a family.
Erin Nelson (19:31):
Absolutely, and I think too, just with churches,
you know, that can bring so muchstrength of faith.
Community, whatever that mightlook like Surrounding you, can
bring a lot of comfort and manytimes there's just an
organization in that, wherethere's something in place
whether that's a dinner afterthe funeral or something like
that where that can bring a lotof strength to a family.
Brad Quillen (19:56):
Erin, I'm glad you said that because, Colleen, we
were talking earlier about justsome of those other ways that
you can nurture yourspirituality.
Do you want to share a few ofthose before we go to break?
Colleen Montague (20:04):
Being in nature, meditation, yoga,
connection with animals.
Those are all other ways tojust be in wonder in the world,
you know, including, like whatwe talked about before, of just
the signs that people can feelconnected to within nature and
(20:25):
feeling like those are sent fromtheir person wherever they may
be.
And you know we've talked aboutbutterflies, hummingbirds, a
fox, as Carter shows up as avibrant sunset.
I recently heard about feathers.
Erin Nelson (20:41):
People find connection with pennies, pennies
from heaven seeing a penny andpicking it up and putting it in
your pocket.
My daughter was at a baseballgame We've been doing a lot of
baseball lately and she saidthere was a ladybug that landed
on her and she said, oh, hey,carter.
(21:01):
And then the mom next to hersaid oh, you do that in your
family too.
That's what I call my mom, andso it's just like all kinds of
ways that you can feel connectedand that kind of feels a little
spiritual too.
It's like a little bit ofheaven mixed in.
Brad Quillen (21:19):
Yes, you guys.
That's so good because I'mcurious with those that are
listening how many differentways their person shows up.
We'd love to hear from you atinfo at Jessica's House.
You could let us know how thathappens for you, and we'll be
back right after this break.
Gary Shriver (21:35):
Jessica's House is a children's bereavement center
located in California's CentralValley since 2012.
We provide free peer supportfor children, teens, young
adults and their familiesgrieving a loss.
The When Grief Comes Homepodcast goes along with the book
of the same name.
The book When Grief Comes Homeis a gentle guide for parents
(21:57):
who are grieving a partner orchild while helping their
children through the loss oftheir parent or sibling.
When Grief Comes Home is nowavailable at all major book
retailers and if you needgrief-related support, please
visit jessicashouseorg todownload our free resources and
be sure to follow Jessica'sHouse on social media free
resources and be sure to followJessica's House on social media,
and if you have any questionsor topics that you'd like us to
(22:19):
explore in a future episode,just send us an email to info at
jessicashouse.
org.
Brad Quillen (22:27):
Hey, welcome back from the break and we are going
to talk a little bit about howdo we talk to our kiddos about
grief and belief.
I'll never forget the questionI got from a parent in a group
one time that said how do youexplain how to get to heaven?
And I kind of went what Explainthat to me?
This mom had shared that her asher husband had died and she
(22:50):
had told her son that that Dadwas in heaven.
His logical response was well,where's that?
And then he just proceeded tosay well, let's just go there so
we can see dad.
And that's just the logic thatthis little guy was using.
But it reminds me that, erin,you had a very similar story
like that with your son, withCody.
Erin Nelson (23:11):
Yeah, I'll never forget that.
Just hanging out with him veryearly on after Tyler died and he
had heard about heaven anddad's in heaven you know from,
we had a just house full ofpeople and it was very shortly
after Tyler died, and so he saidyou know, daddy's in heaven,
but we can just get the ladderthere was the ladder outside and
(23:32):
just put it on top of the roofand just reach really high.
And I think when we're thinkingabout kids, you know, at that
time I could just wish with himand wonder with him, like what
would that be like?
I wonder what that would belike.
And so, just, you know, heavencan feel super abstract for a
child, you know, when they'retalking about it.
(23:52):
And just like you said, likehow do you explain that to a
child?
We all have these differentbeliefs of what we hope heaven
is like right.
I mean, so many kids have eventalked about in group their pet,
you know, will they be there?
And just all of those pieces.
And you know, I think this ideaof what happens to us after we
(24:13):
die is so complex and everyonehas a different hope and wish
and, you know, a differentperspective and I think kids are
the same, and so we weretalking earlier about how we can
just ask them like what do youthink heaven's?
Like, what would you want to bethere in heaven?
And just really giving themthat back to them.
(24:34):
Even when we're talking aboutpets, it's like do you want,
would you want your dog to bethere, you know, and just hope
with them.
Well, I really hope so too.
Brad Quillen (24:43):
And it's not until there's a death that they're
confronted with that question ofwhat happens.
Erin Nelson (24:48):
What happens.
And I remember that shift frompresent, you know, from that
presence, to like we wouldalways pray in our family for
each other and putting the kidsto bed, and every night they
said and we hope daddy has agood day at work.
And so then now then theystarted seeing and we hope daddy
(25:08):
has a really good day in heaven, and just that kind of shift of
the.
You know, when it was like theywere in your everyday life and
now they're in this abstractplace and you kind of want to
imagine where they're them there.
Brad Quillen (25:22):
What does that look like?
What does that look like?
Erin Nelson (25:24):
What are they doing ?
And so, yeah, we just wouldjust kind of wonder together and
I think kids, they have thebest ideas when it comes to some
of those things right and tolearn from them have the best
ideas when it comes to some ofthose things right and to learn
from them.
Colleen Montague (25:44):
You know we've talked a lot about the
Christian perspective of youknow an afterlife and heaven,
but we want to honor that.
So many of our listeners mayalso not have that, you know.
They may not have thatreligious belief.
They may not know what theybelieve.
They may believe that there isno afterlife, that once you die
you are gone.
You may believe inreincarnation.
There's so many differentquestions out there and beliefs
(26:05):
and so just leaning into thatfor yourself, knowing that you
might be questioning what youalways wondered or hoped to be
true and that's true for yourkids too.
You know, hoped to be true, andthat's true for your kids too.
You know, recently my daughterhas been entertaining the idea
of reincarnation, and she's veryyoung.
But you know she asks me youknow, when you come back after
(26:26):
you die, what animal would youwant to be?
And even though that's not mybelief, I'm not going to shoot
down those wonderings.
I just enter into that spacewith her and I tell her well, I
hope I'm a bird, because I wouldlove to fly.
What would you want to be?
And so entertaining thosewonderings won't do any harm.
It just gives them the space toexplore their beliefs in that
(26:49):
moment, their wonderings, Ishould say.
Erin Nelson (26:52):
Yeah, I think about a dad who had a teen son and
you know his son, you know, intheir family they did believe in
heaven.
And his son just kind of justsaid I don't believe in heaven
anymore.
And if mom died and God allowedthat, that's just not what I'll
believe in.
And you know, he didn't want tobelieve in God anymore.
(27:14):
And his dad was reallywrestling with that and then he
was able to say, okay, I'm justgoing to sit with you in that
and wonder with you.
And so they just processed thattogether and I think they had
to come together on that issue.
The dad, his faith was soimportant to him but his son
wasn't adopting that at thattime and it was understandable.
(27:36):
And they had to just kind ofcome together in their family
and just allow everyone to havethose beliefs during that time
and to really find out what theybelieved and to work through
some of those.
Colleen Montague (27:49):
It's another layer to that idea that everyone
is grieving differently.
It's just another layer to thatthat everyone's going to be in
a different place.
With that too, possibly, andinstead of turning someone away
because theirs is different thanyours, leaning in.
Erin Nelson (28:06):
Yeah, as we lean in and we've talked a lot even in
volunteer training about youknow, when someone is
questioning God and they're madat God, that we're just sitting
shoulder to shoulder with them,just being with them in that as
they can process their anger andquestioning their beliefs.
I think you question yourmortality.
When someone that's in youreveryday life dies, it just
(28:30):
makes you do a review on yourlife and what you believe and
wondering where they are, andsometimes it's the first time
you've ever been faced with that.
So it's just a natural part ofgrief that you're going to
wonder about that and really,like I know, brad, for you,
you've been a pastor for so manyyears, you've sat through with
so many families and I'm sureyou've seen such a range in
(28:53):
reactions to what people believe.
Brad Quillen (28:56):
Over the years sitting with folks as you were
talking about.
I think it's safe to say, as youeven opened up the podcast
about the difference betweenwhen Tyler died and when Carter
died.
I think that's true across theboard that if something were to
happen in my family, there's ahope that I think I would
approach it with.
But I don't know, until I'mthere and I think that's a safe
(29:19):
statement for everybody.
Until we're confronted withthat, we think or we hope or we
aspire that we'd react a certainway or trust in certain ways.
But until we're there, I thinkit's too much of an abstract
even, and I've sat with a lot ofpeople, you know, towards the
end of life as well, um, withdiagnosages and those things.
(29:42):
But to learn from them asthey've walked close and get
closer to heaven's door, I I'velearned a lot and thought I hope
I'm as graceful as they are.
But then there's also peoplethat are really mad and
frustrated and I think thatwould be one of the biggest
pieces is until we're confrontedwith those, those mortality
(30:04):
issues that when that was,people would say when the rubber
hits the road.
Erin Nelson (30:09):
Yeah, and I think about you and just even your
role as a chaplain and just asyou come alongside people that
have had trauma, you know it's,you know when you can just be
with them and their anger andallow them to express all of
(30:31):
their doubt and you know all theways they wish that and allow
everyone to work through theirquestions and have an honest
conversation or even justexplore faith for the first time
, whatever it is.
Just yeah, there's no right orwrong way.
Brad Quillen (30:52):
And I think that's what we're saying with your
kiddos is just let them explorethat and ask those questions and
not shy away from even saying Idon't know.
Colleen Montague (31:01):
Yeah, absolutely, because when you do
let them have that space forwondering, it creates a safe
place for them to sit throughtheir own thoughts as they're
processing it for themselves.
And I wonder too if it's okayto admit when you are unsure
yourself, you know, like whywould that?
Why would God let this happento my brother?
(31:22):
Can you say to them?
You know, I'm wondering thesame thing right now.
Brad Quillen (31:27):
I'm having a hard time with that too yeah,
admitting that, and just well,I've, I've I can't tell you how
many times I've said God,they're one of the good ones,
like pillars in the community,good dads or good moms, right,
and they accident illness, youknow, whatever age that is.
But I've said numerous times,they're one of the good ones.
(31:49):
Like we need these.
These are the good ones we needaround, but this one doesn't
make sense to me.
Erin Nelson (31:55):
This doesn't add up .
Yeah, just the questions thatwe all have after someone dies.
Brad Quillen (32:01):
And it would be more so with kiddos.
Erin Nelson (32:04):
Oh yeah, it does not make sense.
Brad Quillen (32:08):
One person in group taught me she had said you
know, brad, I realized I alwaysneeded my mom.
You always need your parents.
Erin Nelson (32:17):
Absolutely, and so to not have that it makes us
think differently.
It really does.
And why would God allow my momnot to be here for me when I
need her so much and no one canreplace your mom?
And to live your whole lifewithout him?
It just doesn't seem right.
Brad Quillen (32:35):
Erin, that's so true because we need to just
acknowledge where we're at andthat can't change, unfortunately
, and that also is the realityfor kind of exploring some of
those questions with our kiddosand the doubts that they have
too.
But you have an exercise, a wayfor kids to be able to kind of
explore that and even share that.
And you might be wondering howdo I get my kid to share, and so
(32:57):
would you share the clayanalogy with that for kiddos to
be able to do that?
Erin Nelson (33:01):
Yeah, just in the book when Grief Comes Home, at
the end of every chapter we havean activity that parents can do
with their children, and one ofthem is just using clay.
And I'm just thinking aboutthat child or even that adult in
our listeners today who they'rejust mad at God.
And so we just talked aboutlike you get that clay and you
(33:23):
just throw it on the table.
Maybe you throw it against awall and maybe you change its
shape, and maybe you change itsshape into what your anger looks
like.
You know, maybe you change itsshape into what you hope is in
heaven and you know, just beingable to use that clay in a way
that really gets that energy ofwhatever you're feeling in your
(33:47):
body when it comes to justreally protesting this situation
that you never asked for, younever wanted this to touch your
family, but get it out andwhatever we can do to get the
energy of grief and rage andanger and all the questions you
might have around this persondying.
(34:08):
Just get it out and let it be.
Brad Quillen (34:11):
Erin and Colleen, thank you.
Thank you for this podcasttoday.
It's a tough subject but it's agood one to talk about and, for
those of you listening, visitus at jessicashouseorg for more
grief resources and if you havea topic or question you'd like
us to cover on this podcast.
We welcome your email at info@jessicashouse.
org.
Be sure to join us next timefor another episode of When
(34:33):
Grief Comes Home.
Until then, we wish you well.
Gary Shriver (34:40):
Episode of When Grief Comes Home.
Until then, we wish you well.
Jessica's House is a children'sbereavement center located in
California's Central Valleysince 2012.
We provide free peer supportfor children, teens, young
adults and their familiesgrieving a loss.
The When Grief Comes Homepodcast goes along with the book
of the same name.
The book When Grief Comes Homeis a gentle guide for parents
(35:00):
who are grieving a partner orchild while helping their
children through the loss oftheir parent or sibling.
When Grief Comes Home is nowavailable at all major book
retailers and if you needgrief-related support, please
visit jessicashouse.
org to download our freeresources and be sure to follow
Jessica's House on social media.
If you have any questions ortopics that you'd like us to
(35:23):
explore in a future episode,just send us an email to info@
jessicashouseorg.
Thank you for joining us andwe'll see you next time for When
Grief Comes Home.
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