June 3, 2025 • 40 mins
Welcome to the When Grief Comes Home podcast. We're glad you're here. This podcast supports parents who are grieving a spouse, partner, or child while helping their children who are living through the loss of a parent or sibling. With personal grief stories and professional guidance, we offer parents practical tips for supporting their child who is grieving while caring for their own grief.
In this episode, we explore spirituality’s complex role in grief—from finding unexpected solace to wrestling with deep doubts.
Erin Nelson shares how scripture became her lifeline after her husband’s death, offering comfort in dark moments. We also address tough questions like “why us?” and the silence that follows prayers.
The episode highlights how faith communities provide vital support, creating spaces for shared grief. Brad reflects on the hopeful shift from “goodbye” to “see you later,” acknowledging the longing for physical presence.
Parents will find helpful advice on supporting children’s spiritual questions—from imaginative beliefs to deeper doubts—with Colleen offering honest, practical language to hold mystery and truth.
Order the book When Grief Comes Home https://a.co/d/ijaiP5L
For more information on Jessica’s House or for additional resources, please go to jessicashouse.org
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Gary Shriver (00:00):
Hello and welcome to When Grief Comes Home, a
podcast dedicated to parentsliving through loss while
supporting their child.
Let's meet the team.
Erin Nelson (00:11):
I'm Erin Nelson, founding executive director at
Jessica's House.
Colleen Montague (00:15):
Hi, I'm Colleen Montague, program
director for Jessica's House anda licensed marriage and family
therapist.
Brad Quillen (00:21):
Hi, I'm Brad Quillen and I'm the host of When
Grief Comes Home.
Gary Shriver (00:25):
This podcast goes along with a book of the same
name.
The book When Grief Comes Homeis a gentle guide for parents
who are grieving a partner orchild, while helping their
children through the loss oftheir parent or sibling.
When Grief Comes Home is nowavailable at all major book
retailers.
Now let's go to the team, asthey share grief resources and
(00:48):
coping skills, heartfelt storiesand insights to support parents
as they raise children who aregrieving Together, you'll find
strength as we learn to livewith loss and find ways to heal.
Brad Quillen (01:22):
Well, hello, hello .
It's Brad from Jessica's House.
Today we're continuing ourconversation on the role our
faith can play in healing as wegrieve.
In the last episode, we talkedabout how our faith may be
tested or even strained afterthe death of a loved one.
As you might recall from lastepisode, as we talked about
grief and belief, it was on someof those harder topics of not
(01:45):
feeling God or not even beingable to find a God in the midst
of death.
Today we're going to talk alittle bit more about the power
or presence our faith playsafter there's been a death.
Erin, I know you and I, overthe years, have talked about how
your faith has been paramountin these seasons of loss in your
life.
Would you mind sharing a bitof the ways you've leaned on
(02:07):
your faith, but also those waysthat you've seen it help you
walk through some of thosedarkest, hardest moments?
Erin Nelson (02:15):
Yes, Brad, thank you.
And I think about just as wedive into how faith can be so
important for people as theyface a death and as they grieve
At Jessica's House, you know weare a faith-based organization
and just as our listeners arehearing us today, knowing that
(02:38):
there are so many differentfaiths that somebody may adopt
as their own, and we just wantto honor everyone's faith today.
And also speak just from ourperspective of a Christian
organization and how our faith,and even my faith, has shaped
kind of my grief experience.
And last time we talked abouthow, when we go through
(03:03):
something like the death, ofjust a profound death in our
lives, you know sometimes we canjust really question God and
not understand and feel unsafein the world and just how
sometimes it opens us up to thiskind of just wondering.
(03:24):
Like you know, we prayed forsafety and we always trusted God
for what we needed and we feelso kind of abandoned in some
ways.
And today, like just we want totalk about how families that
we've served over the years,what they've taught us about
their faith and how much howimportant it is to them and how
(03:45):
much strength it gives them asthey face death.
I never will forget.
Just even it started the yearbefore Tyler died.
I had a dream that he died andhe was in Alaska when he died
and fishing with his friends andthat was his second trip.
(04:06):
On that time that he died.
But the year before he died Ihad a dream that he died in
Alaska.
So when he did die, I kind offelt like in some way God was
preparing me for his death, andso when I think about my faith
with God, I just really feltGod's presence even way before
(04:29):
he died, just preparing me andbeing alongside me.
I remember there were keyscriptures that really helped me
.
One of them was from Psalm 68,and it says that God is the
father to the fatherless and thedefender of widows.
And I just remember likehanging on to that, knowing that
(04:51):
God was with me, that he wouldtake care of the kids, and he
was my defender and someone thatwas with me, just helping me,
just being alongside me and justhelping me in all of these,
this new kind of way of being,and so it really did shape so
much of my experience withTyler's death.
Brad Quillen (05:15):
And we've heard over the years and you and I
have, and me being a pastor andworking at Jessica's house as
well over the years, there'sbeen those moments where people
have said in group or even inchurch world for me that I've
never been more distant from Godfollowing a death.
But then there's also the othersin group, but also church life
for me that I've never beencloser.
I never felt God closer inthese hard moments or these dark
(05:37):
days, even if I remember, rightafter Tyler died, you had your
Bible and it was always with youand I want to say it was in bed
with you.
Erin Nelson (05:47):
Yeah, I always like slept with the light on in my
Bible.
Brad Quillen (05:51):
Right.
Erin Nelson (05:52):
Yeah, it just my faith was just something that
really sustained me.
And you know, as I think Imentioned last time in our
episode, I didn't grow up, asyou know, with any kind of faith
.
I grew up in an atheisthousehold and it wasn't anything
that was part of my teaching inmy life, but that I always kind
(06:15):
of felt that love from God andI felt a real closeness from God
, even as a child, and so it wasvery instrumental in my life.
As I grew up and, like was youknow, in high school and learned
kind of more formally aboutChristianity, the Bible became
very important to me.
(06:35):
It was just one of those partsof my spirituality that I really
held on to and gave me a lot ofcomfort to find those key
verses in the Bible.
Brad Quillen (06:46):
Yeah, a couple of things we want to talk about too
is there's this huge presenceof our faith community that
comes around in times of griefand death.
But before we jump into that, Ialso want to just acknowledge
and be honest that sometimesthere's some hard comments that
come from people that almostmake us feel like minimize our
pain or and those are hard tohear from people sometimes, and
(07:10):
so.
But this is to acknowledge thatsometimes, that that does
happen too.
And so, when we are hoping thatthese people are nothing but
supportive and they're in itwith us, sometimes the comments
do hurt or, like I said,minimize what we're feeling
sometimes.
Erin Nelson (07:25):
Definitely, and it's unfortunate that sometimes
it's more likely to happen in afaith community and that when we
have this hope of seeing aperson again, that sometimes
people can even negate our griefand how much we want their
(07:46):
physical presence in our life.
And just because we'll see himagain doesn't mean that we don't
want him right next to us.
Brad Quillen (07:53):
We miss him yeah.
Colleen Montague (07:54):
What have you two seen or noticed about
families that have that beliefin heaven and that they'll see
their children or their spouseor their loved one again?
Erin Nelson (08:05):
Yeah, I can think about a mom and Brad, you and I,
just with our ministry in thechurch.
I remember one of the moms thatwe were ministering to, her son
died suddenly and she told meone morning that it's always
been her hope that someday, asthey were raising their children
(08:27):
in this Christian tradition,that they would see that person
again, that their kids would goto heaven.
And she said, Erin, he's inheaven.
Like that's all I've everwanted.
And just to know that in ourbelief structure that we will
(08:48):
see them again, it's such acomfort.
I know for me even it's hard toimagine, it's almost too good
to be true.
In some ways, when I thinkabout like I'll actually see
Carter again, I just think likecan that even be true?
Like I can't even believe thatI get to see him again.
And it's such a comfort andjust even when we've heard so
(09:16):
many stories of people who aredying and when they you know the
stories that we hear of themseeing their loved ones, in kind
of that in-between space oflike still being on the earth
and going to heaven, and thestories that they've told, that
families have told us about how,oh, they, you know.
(09:37):
They said, oh, I see, you knowmy mom or my son.
And that is such a beautifulsentiment and experience for
somebody to actually have toknow that they're seeing someone
that's waiting for them.
Brad Quillen (09:54):
I think for me over the years I don't know if I
learned this from one person orI just kind of put it together
from hearing so many differentpeople's statements but it's
kind of that shift in mindsetfrom goodbye to see you later.
And I know that sounds verytrivial and like cookies on the
lower shelf, but there is apiece of that is, even though we
(10:18):
say see you later, we stillmiss that person.
Like my kids went to schoolthis morning.
Right, I miss them throughoutthe day, but I know I'll see
them later, but there's thatreality of it's no longer
goodbye but it's see you later.
And so that was just kind of aand that was years ago, just
kind of a different way that Ijust kind of started to see
alongside I mean there's also asmany funerals as Aaron and Brad
(10:40):
I've done together.
You know there's some of thosesongs that come to my mind.
You know, when we all get toheaven, what a glorious day
that'll be, right, andreunification, and some of those
things that we, we sing aboutand we hope for and we look
forward to.
But it doesn't also minimizethe community, and man.
I wish they were still here andI'd still like to do dinner or
whatever the favorite thing welove to do together watch a game
(11:01):
, whatever it is but just thatshift from it's no longer
goodbye, but see you later.
a a i I h s so
Erin Nelson (11:05):
nd, and to hold your grief.
Alongside that, people and Ireally like what you're saying,
brad, about kind of thatcollective experience that you
can have in a faith community ofall coming together and singing
that same song and justacknowledging together that we
(11:26):
have hope of that reunification.
And what will that be like, youknow, and just wondering
together and seeing that outloud and just coming together in
our faith community.
And I think faith communitieswhat we've learned from families
over the years is they bring somuch strength.
Many times they're the onesthat are organizing the food and
(11:50):
so much of the pieces ofcomfort that can come alongside
and surround a family after atragic death.
So I think what we've heard ispeople's faith community becomes
something that they depend onand it brings them a lot of
comfort and strength to knowthat they're not going to be
(12:12):
alone in this.
They have people that will bethere for them and who are
checking in and stopping by.
And they're even going tochurch and sometimes we know
church can be hard and peoplehave said that first time I went
to church.
And sometimes we know churchcan be hard and people have said
that first time I went tochurch and sing those songs, but
also like what an anchor, yeah,to go in and be with other
(12:33):
people that share something withyou and to know that you can
stand with them and there's justa rhythm of life to just go and
just have that.
And I know, for me, right afterCarter died, I was doing a
retreat that was alreadyscheduled.
It was like a year longspiritual kind of commitment
(12:57):
that I had made, retreatscheduled that year and a lot of
reading I needed to do tocollectively have this
experience, and I kind of hadthis choice of opting out but I
decided to move forward withthat.
So I spent, you know severalyou know times weekends that
(13:18):
year at a monastery with otherpeople that were sharing that
with me and it was there weretimes of silence and rhythms of
just being together and I Ireally brought me a lot of
strength.
And so it's just kind offinding out, I think, for our
listeners, like what do you needright now After someone dies?
(13:39):
How can a community of someonewho shares your spirituality
bring you comfort?
And what rhythms do you need inyour life?
What kind of people do you wantaround you?
And so sometimes just exploringthat idea of spirituality can
be helpful when you're grieving.
Brad Quillen (14:01):
You mentioned going back to church and I've
seen People walk back intochurch and they used to sit.
I mean, we're creatures ofhabit so we sit kind of in the
same section, right.
But what was that like for youthe first time you went back and
sat by yourself and Tylerwasn't with you?
Erin Nelson (14:15):
Yeah, you know it was interesting because, yeah, I
sat in the same place and hewasn't there.
Yeah I just remember it beingjust so tender.
Brad Quillen (14:23):
Yeah.
Just a very fragile time to bethere by myself, you know,
because at that time the kidswere in their you know classes,
yeah, and I remember just therewas a different level of soaking
everything mornings, "I Iactually can remember like words
of sermons and the music thatwas played.
(14:45):
I think it's a time that you'rejust kind of broken open and
you are" absorbing things in anew way that you hadn't before,
because everything kind of fallsaway during that time.
All the things that may havebeen on your mind when you were
it, but church, like when'slunch and you know, did I do the
laundry And's like you arehungry, you know, and you're
(15:11):
thirsty for God and something toget you to the next moment, and
you're just hanging on to everypart of that song and the hugs
that surround you and all ofthat.
All of that, and it'sinteresting because, you know, I
remember a quote that a pastorsaid and I ended up finding this
(15:37):
little saying at a local storeand it was framed and it said
and I thought it was so good andit was something that you know
where I was, at the same time,like, my faith was very
important to me and I wasleaning on God and at the same
(16:15):
time, I felt just that kind ofyou know, wondering and
curiosity about how could thishappen?
And this quote was like what Iread, that it was one time
inscribed on a wall at aconcentration camp and it said
and this is what the pastor saidone of those Sunday mornings I
believe in the sun, even whenit's not shining.
I believe in love even when Idon't feel it.
I believe in God, even whenhe's silent.
And when he said that I'llnever forget, just like thinking
(16:36):
, oh, like wow, just to thinkthat, even when I can't see God
and even when he feels quiet,even when I can't feel His
warmth and love because of thesadness that he's still there,
and so like finding that andputting it on my wall and that
it really just meant so much tome.
(16:57):
So I think I was just ready forany little piece of inspiration
that could help.
Yeah, I've had people say that to me over the
years and it.
But then they'll come back afew weeks later or months later
and they'll say you know, I Godwas silent, but his people
weren't.
Erin Nelson (17:12):
Something to that effect.
I love that their words, right.
Brad Quillen (17:15):
But you know, I asked you kind of point blank
about sitting in church becauseI've seen people that have known
what's going on with someoneand then they sit next to him
for the next few weeks, sothey're not alone, right.
Gary Shriver (17:25):
And so we're not.
Brad Quillen (17:27):
We're already feeling so wife's no longer
sitting next to me.
But when know aren't silent.
(18:16):
I'm like, well sometimes theyneed to be.
, I felt God was silent but, aspeople you know, stepped up,
and so there's so many littleways we can do that food.
Sometimes the years of peopleyou know, because the lawn
hadn't been done and then daddied and so me and a few other
guys go do yard work or just allthese other little things.
Erin Nelson (17:53):
It's so good, yeah, and I love what you're saying
about just sitting next tosomeone and just as we think
about someone who is needingthat extra comfort, it's like
just get closer.
Brad Quillen (18:07):
And you don't need to say anything.
.
Erin Nelson (18:08):
Right, right, comfort.
It's like just get closer andyou don't need to say anything.
Right, right.
So when you said, um, god'speople aren't you know?
jessicashouse.
(19:38):
jessicashouse.
Brad Quillen (18:16):
aren't silent, back, and Well, sometimes they
need to be sometimes sometimesyeah.
Yeah, that that presence, um,we have a mutual friend that
that just has sat with peoplefor months and just gone over
and been with them every daychecking on them and literally
going to their house and justbeing there.
Erin Nelson (18:36):
Just sitting down.
Brad Quillen (18:38):
Hey, we're going to go and take a Brad break
right now, but as we come backfrom that, we're going to talk a
bit about some of that, youthat surround spirituality, but
also how do we haveconversations with our kiddos on
this topic spirituality, butalso how do we have
conversations with our kiddos onthis topic.
Gary Shriver (18:54):
Jessica's House is a children's bereavement center
located in California's CentralValley since 2012.
We provide free peer supportfor children, teens, young
adults and their familiesgrieving a loss.
The when Grief Comes Homepodcast goes along with the book
of the same name.
The book when Grief Comes is agentle guide for parents who are
grieving a partner or childwhile helping their children
(19:15):
through the loss of their parentor sibling.
When Grief Comes Home is nowavailable at all major book
retailers and if you needgrief-related support, please
visit jessicashouseorg todownload our free resources and
be sure to follow Jessica'sHouse on social media.
If you have any questions ortopics that you'd like us to
explore in a future episode,just send Erin, then email to
(19:38):
info at jessicashouseorg.
Brad Quillen (19:42):
Well, welcome back .
And as we come into this secondpart of this episode, we want
to take a few minutes and justtalk about some of the ways
we've heard people makeconnections to God and maybe a
different way of spiritualityand Erin, I know we've heard
tons and tons of stories.
We talk about a lot of thestories, but there's one in
particular.
That kind of talking, it tonefor what we want to talk about a
little bit here in the secondpart of this episode.
(20:04):
Would you share the goldenretriever story with us, friend?
Erin Nelson (20:09):
Oh yeah, we've been talking about this, Brad, and I
think about just several yearsago.
I was talking to someone andshe was just sharing that.
You know, she didn't reallyadopt any formal kind of belief
structure and any she wasn'tpart of a church or you know
anything like that.
But she was telling me that, um, you would, you know her
husband had died.
(20:29):
And she said, you know, aaron,when my husband died, you know
her husband had died.
And she said, you know, erin,when my husband died, you know,
we were at the ER and he diedsuddenly of a heart attack.
And she said I got home and mydog, who had never really jumped
on my bed or you know, hereally had his own bed on the
floor, he just jumped on my bedand he, you know, he really had
(20:49):
his own bed on the floor, hejust jumped on my bed and he was
a golden retriever.
And she said he just laid hishead down like on my neck and
just stayed there all night andjust was comforting me.
And she said there were so manyother parts of kind of nature
that she connected to whetherthat was her dog.
(21:10):
There was one time when she wentto visit family from out of
town and her husband loved tomake this special kind of dip.
It was like some kind of pateor something, and he that was
like his specialty.
He always made it, no matterwhat.
Whenever anybody gathered,gathered, it was always kind of
like what he did, and so itinvolved getting a lot of
(21:35):
ingredients into the blender andone time he put a rubber
spatula into the blender and itlike blended the spatula up, but
he didn't want to throw it away, so he just like poured it on
the counter and then he pickedall the little pieces of rubber
spatula out of this dip.
(21:57):
And so she said you know, aaron.
Then we traveled and she saidwe had this really beautiful,
actually, we were there toremember him and we traveled to
Switzerland, him, and wetraveled to Switzerland.
And she said, and we were onthis in this countryside and we
were toasting to him and we wereremembering him, and they
brought in something you know,like this spread for our bread,
(22:18):
and she said and there was apiece of a rubber spatula in
this little like thing.
And she said we laughed so hardand it was like he was there
and he was just playing a trickon us, and I think of all the
times that people have told usover the years in some way or
another that they just felt alittle nudge.
(22:40):
You know, sometimes they'll sayfrom the universe, from their
loved one, whatever it might be,and so I just love those
stories.
We hear so many of them ingroup and somehow it's almost
like this little message in myown faith tradition.
When I heard her I just thoughtabout the love from God just
(23:01):
touching her and helping herfeel seen, and it just thought
she wasn't forgotten and youknow he was real and it just it.
I think somehow every personand like what I think of is just
finds comfort after, aftersomeone dies, stretching always
(23:23):
.
It brings me so much hope thatthat's what we've experienced.
Brad Quillen (23:27):
When you were talking.
It made me think that the wordseen, but it's just that I
remember you.
Erin Nelson (23:32):
Yeah.
Brad Quillen (23:33):
Even though you feel alone, I still remember you
.
Erin, there's also ways inwhich people have shared with us
over the years and maybe someof the people listening today
where it wasn't more of theindividual piece but it was more
of a collective piece of beingwith a group or that, something
together with others, where theyfelt that nudge to spirituality
.
Erin Nelson (23:53):
Yeah, I think about just that collective experience
of spirituality.
One that comes to mind thatpeople say often is that
experience of being in a yogaclass where they feel connected
to themselves and others andsome form of spirituality that's
bringing them strength, beingable to connect and move and
(24:17):
breathe and even hum together.
I think can be such a sacredexperience for so many people,
and I've heard people say thatthey cry, you know, at the end
of their mat.
Maybe they have tears that needto be shed, or maybe they are
just the gentle stretching or aworkout is exactly what they
(24:40):
need and they feel moreconnected to their own
spirituality and others.
Brad Quillen (24:48):
We've been talking about how people get connected
to God or through spirituality,because there's been a death.
But I want to just ask yousomething that is kind of harder
topic and a little bit of thatis, and that's that
acknowledgement that we're allgoing to experience death at
some point.
Erin Nelson (25:05):
Yeah.
But in the back of our mind weoften say why me?
Or why them?
That I'm going to go throughlife and not have anything bad
and that's a whole other thingto unpack, but there's also,
there is that that piece in ourfaith that God, why us?
Why right now?
Why them?
(25:26):
They were one of the good ones,like all these, these things
that come up, and there's thatreality that there will be
hardship in this life and weacknowledge that, there's a
passage in John that talks aboutin this world, you will have
trouble.
But take heart, I've overcome the world and I
think about just that peace thatwe know this isn't heaven,
(25:46):
right and so, as Christians, ourbelief is that we can expect
suffering, that we know thatthere will be suffering in this
world, and we don't know what itwill look like, but there will
be some form of suffering thatleaves us longing for something
else someday.
That this isn't it.
(26:08):
You know what we experiencehere, and our promise is that
He'll never leave us or forsakeus.
So our promise is His presencethrough whatever we go through.
And so, as we have that,expected suffering, we know it
will be here, but you know howcan we find hope through it and
(26:30):
trust that it won't last forever, because this is not kind of
like, sounds very trite in someways, but this isn't our true
home.
We're longing for that.
Brad Quillen (26:41):
It reminds me we're recording this a few weeks
after Easter that Good Fridayhappens and that's when there's
the death.
But my pastor reminded us thatSundays are coming right, soo
there's always theSunday follows the Good Friday,
with the resurrection and thehope that we have in that.
Erin Nelson (27:19):
And like think about Lazarus the word that's
used for how he responded tothat death is a growl, a growl.
He actually let out thisutterance of the sound.
That was a deep grief, wherewe've heard people say I
couldn't even cry, I just.
It was like something just cameout of me.
That was like a growl andthat's what he did, even though
(27:42):
he had the hope that not onlywas he, would he be resurrected,
right, but he would see himagain for eternity.
Brad Quillen (27:49):
And so, knowing that we can grieve deeply and
lament and cry and do alleverything that we need to do,
because Jesus showed us, and hemodeled, how to be a human on
this earth and really grieve inan authentic way, and there's
those pieces of the individualgrief, but then also collective
(28:10):
grief too, that we see andthat's one of the things we see
here at the house and there'sthat reality of these are some
of the questions that kiddoscoming to the house are asking
and you might be listening,thinking my kid is asking those
very say, same"ou questions ofthat reality of suffering or
that hard, those hard questionsaround suffering, the why us,
(28:34):
why dad, " why mom, why mybrother, why my sister?
why, And those are not easyquestions to answer as a parent
or an immediate with, you justgot custody because someone has
died.
Colleen, I know Erin and I havebeen talking a lot, but what
are some of say, "I to helpprepare adults to be able to
answer some of those questions,or even just the acknowledgement
that they might be coming?
Colleen Montague (28:52):
ou know it's not too different than what
we've been talking about whenkids ask us questions and giving
them answers to the best ofyour ability and so just being
present for their questions,hearing what their thoughts are
are, they're wonderings, and youcan share what you believe to
be true.
You know, I believe thatmommy's in heaven and we'll get
(29:16):
to see her again someday.
Or even if you don't know forsure, any of like you know, none
of us knows what heavenactually looks like, so we can't
actually give that answer.
And so you can say you know, Idon't know for sure, but this is
what I hope it's like, this iswhat I think.
And then, with those angryquestions of the why you don't
(29:37):
have an answer for that, right,you can back it with.
You know the scripture, like youguys shared if, if that feels
right according to your child'sdevelopmental age.
But you can also just say Idon't know and I'm mad too right
now, or I'm wondering that tooright now, because really what
we want is to just hear them andacknowledge the pain they're in
(30:00):
, acknowledge the wonderings,not shut it down, and when they
know, they can just come andexplore those ideas or desires
with you.
That's really "ey gift that youcan offer in this, and so you
know on that note too they mightbe in a different place than
you are.
They might be struggling whileyou're feeling secure, or vice
(30:21):
versa, who knows.
And so it's as hard as it canbe as a parent trying to just
honor where they are, even ifit's not the same spot you're in
.
Brad Quillen (30:31):
Erin, hearing all that, if your kid or kiddos are
not asking , should you beconcerned?
Or should that be raising ayellow flag of caution?
Or what would you say to thoselistening that their kiddos are?
They're okay, they haven'tasked some of those hard
questions.
Colleen Montague (30:48):
When don't ask because they're not sure
they're allowed to ask or talkabout it.
Or I think that was, there behard if we feel like we're
questioning our faith, that canbe looked down upon sometimes,
or we think that people willlook down on us for questioning
God.
And so what you can do as theparent is just take lead and
model that for them and startthe conversation.
(31:11):
Maybe you could say, hey, youknow, today when I saw you at
practice and just how goodyou've gotten at your sport, I
thought, man, I really hopedaddy's watching and I just
thought I wondered if he was.
You know, and if I'll get to,you know, I hope I'm going to
get to see him again and ask himlike, hey, how about him?
(31:33):
And how well you know how greathe got at that sport.
And I just wondered, do youever think the same thing?
You know, just kind of throwingit back and opening that
conversation, kind of itsimagination a little bit too, of
just what are you thinkingabout?
Brad Quillen (31:47):
Aaron, did you're, when have seasons of more
questions or less questions?
w C D d c C w s i h s.
(32:40):
N j j j w t c.
Gary Shriver (33:02):
And I think it was so .
Brad Quillen (33:22):
Hey Erin was still in high school.
No, just just went to college.
Erin Nelson (32:46):
Developmentally, just right, yeah, so after
Carter died and you know, kindof like I've been pretty honest
about this with you know, justit was such a different death
for us and I would say for ourwhole family.
Harsh, and like I said with youknow, having that kind of
(33:14):
preparation after Tyler died andfeeling just so held and and
just I don't know I already isit's just so weird but I felt
ready for it and felt soprepared hey.
Brad Quillen (33:22):
Aaron, I know we were just you and I were just
talking about more of youngerkids House but there's also
those that are listening thathave teenagers, preteens, all
those things that make up thatage range.
And, colleen, what would youtell some of those listening
about some of thosedevelopmental pieces that teens,
preteens, even maybe collegeage kids are walking through?
Colleen Montagu (33:43):
Developmentally .
Just under normal circumstances, it's so typical for
adolescents to bedifferentiating from their
family, to be creating their ownidentity in who they are, what
their own beliefs are.
So that's common amongadolescents anyways.
(34:03):
So if you add grief on top ofthat with so much you know
nuance to it, there can be angeror confusion or questioning,
you know, of why didn't God keepour family safe, why did he let
this happen?
And so you might find youradolescent, your teenager, your
(34:25):
young adult, questioning theirfaith in a deeper way, beyond
just creating their own identity, and that can be really scary
for you as a parent if itdiffers from where you are, and
it can be a little nervewracking for parents anyways.
Erin Nelson (34:42):
Yeah, and Colleen, I'm also just thinking of the
kids that we've seen here atJessica's house and how
sometimes they are also reallydeepening their faith and how
it's something that they'refinding more and more solace in
their faith and they're findingmore strength in their faith.
Maybe they have a group offriends I think about just kids
(35:06):
who their youth group friendsare everything to them and
they're going and they'refinding a faith community for
their own for the very firsttime and so that can bring so
much strength and can reallyhelp them as they are working
through this grief experienceand when they're feeling kind of
(35:28):
scared for their safety, thatthey are finding their friends
are so important to them andwhen they have a faith community
it's really just watching themand hearing from them about how
much it helps them.
Colleen Montague (35:44):
I think you know with what you're saying,
Erin.
It just the same messageapplies either way.
Just meet your child, meet yourteen where they are.
Just meet them where they are,be there for the questions, for
the exploration, because that'ssetting you up to be one of
those people that they'llprocess you with yes, and that's
what you want to do.
lea n
Erin Nelson (36:03):
Be that trusted parent and that they can go to.
Colleen Montague (36:06):
Mm-hmm, we were talking earlier about just
finding connections spirituallyin nature, and I was thinking
about how you can bring your kidalong with you in that, whether
it's finding signs out andabout through animals, or I've
heard a lot about like numbers,like on a clock, like sequences
(36:27):
of numbers, lights flickering,bringing know, bringing your
kids into that as well, or, lena, listening to what their
assumptions are, and I wasthinking about that story you
shared with me, erin, aboutballoons and what happens when
they escape somebody's littlehand.
.
Erin Nelson (38:27):
And I think that's such a sweet image that your
kids had in those moments ofjust imagining their dad holding
this bunch of balloons, like tome right now, that's a really
sweet image and so that's okayto just go with that right and
just imagine that with them.
sweetIt's, I was when the kidswere little and you know, kind
of growing up without Tyler.
They would sometimes, you know,you well a helium balloon and
you know it's such a tragedywhen they escape and go into the
sky and the about an justlooking up and watching it go up
into the clouds and they're sosad.
So one of them just said, well,maybe daddy will catch it for
us.
And just said, well, maybedaddy will catch it for us.
And we had so much fun thinkingabout Tyler having every
balloon and someday when theygot there to heaven that he
would hand them a big bunch ofballoons and that he would have
caught all their helium balloonsand it did help in the moment.
Erin so, yeah, I think, just asthey processed heaven and their
dad being there and that someday, especially for Cody, I think
about it just like he was soyoung when his dad died and
didn't When really know him asErin and didn't don't he doesn't
have as many memories sweetnessof really knowing the essence
of his dad and who he really isand just being able to be
reunited and just how you knowTyler lives in both of them and
just how much I see them and nowwe're, you know, just they're
adults, and so it's so amazingto see him be inside of them to
see him be inside of them, and Ithink that's such a sweet image
that your kids had in thosemoments of just imagining their
dad holding this bunch ofballoons Like to me right now,
that's a really sweet image andso that's okay to just go with
that right and just imagine thatwith them.
Colleen Montague (38:27):
It's kind of a nice little place for them When
put their thoughts or theirsadness is just imagining their
dad holding their balloons.
Yeah Well, I am glad you sharedthat story because it goes
along well with the artinvitation we were thinking
about.
An art activity that you coulddo with your kids would be to
send up thoughts or notes totheir parent, and one way that
(38:52):
we've done this is you can buydissolvable paper and invite
your child to write a letter totheir loved one or to God, draw
a picture and then put thatdissolvable paper into a little
container of bubbles and it willdissolve and hands, so with the
rest of it, and then have themblow bubbles up into the sky and
(39:14):
whether your child's imaginingthey're going up, just floating
away, floating into the clouds,or that they're going to reach
heaven so that their parent ortheir you know, or God can
receive it, um is a nice littlesweet activity that you could do
together.
Brad Quillen (39:31):
Erin and Colleen, thanks for this hard
conversation today.
This is tough topic, and thisbrings us to the end of today's
episode, and it's also bringingus towards the end of our first
season of When Grief Comes Home.
Erin, I know there's somethingyou wanted to share with our
listeners today as we wrap upthis podcast.
Why don't you go ahead and takea moment.
Erin Nelson (39:51):
We're wrapping up the very first season ever of
When Grief Comes Home, and, justas our listeners have given us
really great feedback, I justwant to say if you could just
take a moment to rate ourpodcast and also write a review.
It helps get it into the handsof those who need it most, and
(40:15):
so every time you review apodcast it goes up a little bit
into ratings, and so if somebodyjust types in grief in a
podcast search, they can findthis podcast, and, as we know
that it's been so helpful forparents who are grieving, we
want to get it into more hands.
So please rate and review.
Gary Shriver (40:57):
Jessica's House is a children's bereavement center
located in California's CentralValley since 2012.
We provide free peer supportfor children, teens, young
adults and their familiesgrieving a loss.
The When Grief Comes Homepodcast goes along with the book
of the same name.
The book When Grief Comes Homeis a gentle guide for parents
(41:19):
who are grieving a partner orchild while helping their
children through the loss oftheir parent or sibling.
When Grief Comes Home is nowavailable at all major book
retailers and if you needgrief-related support, please
visit jessicashouse.
org to download our freeresources and be sure to follow
Jessica's House on social media.
If you have any questions ortopics that you'd like us to
(41:42):
explore in a future episode,just send us an email to info@
jessicashouseorg.
Thank you for joining us andwe'll see you next time for When
Grief Comes Home.
Hello and welcome to When Grief Comes Home, a
podcast dedicated to parentsliving through loss while
supporting their child.
Let's meet the team.
Erin Nelson (00:11):
I'm Erin Nelson, founding executive director at
Jessica's House.
Colleen Montague (00:15):
Hi, I'm Colleen Montague, program
director for Jessica's House anda licensed marriage and family
therapist.
Brad Quillen (00:21):
Hi, I'm Brad Quillen and I'm the host of When
Grief Comes Home.
Gary Shriver (00:25):
This podcast goes along with a book of the same
name.
The book When Grief Comes Homeis a gentle guide for parents
who are grieving a partner orchild, while helping their
children through the loss oftheir parent or sibling.
When Grief Comes Home is nowavailable at all major book
retailers.
Now let's go to the team, asthey share grief resources and
(00:48):
coping skills, heartfelt storiesand insights to support parents
as they raise children who aregrieving Together, you'll find
strength as we learn to livewith loss and find ways to heal.
Brad Quillen (01:22):
Well, hello, hello .
It's Brad from Jessica's House.
Today we're continuing ourconversation on the role our
faith can play in healing as wegrieve.
In the last episode, we talkedabout how our faith may be
tested or even strained afterthe death of a loved one.
As you might recall from lastepisode, as we talked about
grief and belief, it was on someof those harder topics of not
(01:45):
feeling God or not even beingable to find a God in the midst
of death.
Today we're going to talk alittle bit more about the power
or presence our faith playsafter there's been a death.
Erin, I know you and I, overthe years, have talked about how
your faith has been paramountin these seasons of loss in your
life.
Would you mind sharing a bitof the ways you've leaned on
(02:07):
your faith, but also those waysthat you've seen it help you
walk through some of thosedarkest, hardest moments?
Erin Nelson (02:15):
Yes, Brad, thank you.
And I think about just as wedive into how faith can be so
important for people as theyface a death and as they grieve
At Jessica's House, you know weare a faith-based organization
and just as our listeners arehearing us today, knowing that
(02:38):
there are so many differentfaiths that somebody may adopt
as their own, and we just wantto honor everyone's faith today.
And also speak just from ourperspective of a Christian
organization and how our faith,and even my faith, has shaped
kind of my grief experience.
And last time we talked abouthow, when we go through
(03:03):
something like the death, ofjust a profound death in our
lives, you know sometimes we canjust really question God and
not understand and feel unsafein the world and just how
sometimes it opens us up to thiskind of just wondering.
(03:24):
Like you know, we prayed forsafety and we always trusted God
for what we needed and we feelso kind of abandoned in some
ways.
And today, like just we want totalk about how families that
we've served over the years,what they've taught us about
their faith and how much howimportant it is to them and how
(03:45):
much strength it gives them asthey face death.
I never will forget.
Just even it started the yearbefore Tyler died.
I had a dream that he died andhe was in Alaska when he died
and fishing with his friends andthat was his second trip.
(04:06):
On that time that he died.
But the year before he died Ihad a dream that he died in
Alaska.
So when he did die, I kind offelt like in some way God was
preparing me for his death, andso when I think about my faith
with God, I just really feltGod's presence even way before
(04:29):
he died, just preparing me andbeing alongside me.
I remember there were keyscriptures that really helped me
.
One of them was from Psalm 68,and it says that God is the
father to the fatherless and thedefender of widows.
And I just remember likehanging on to that, knowing that
(04:51):
God was with me, that he wouldtake care of the kids, and he
was my defender and someone thatwas with me, just helping me,
just being alongside me and justhelping me in all of these,
this new kind of way of being,and so it really did shape so
much of my experience withTyler's death.
Brad Quillen (05:15):
And we've heard over the years and you and I
have, and me being a pastor andworking at Jessica's house as
well over the years, there'sbeen those moments where people
have said in group or even inchurch world for me that I've
never been more distant from Godfollowing a death.
But then there's also the othersin group, but also church life
for me that I've never beencloser.
I never felt God closer inthese hard moments or these dark
(05:37):
days, even if I remember, rightafter Tyler died, you had your
Bible and it was always with youand I want to say it was in bed
with you.
Erin Nelson (05:47):
Yeah, I always like slept with the light on in my
Bible.
Brad Quillen (05:51):
Right.
Erin Nelson (05:52):
Yeah, it just my faith was just something that
really sustained me.
And you know, as I think Imentioned last time in our
episode, I didn't grow up, asyou know, with any kind of faith
.
I grew up in an atheisthousehold and it wasn't anything
that was part of my teaching inmy life, but that I always kind
(06:15):
of felt that love from God andI felt a real closeness from God
, even as a child, and so it wasvery instrumental in my life.
As I grew up and, like was youknow, in high school and learned
kind of more formally aboutChristianity, the Bible became
very important to me.
(06:35):
It was just one of those partsof my spirituality that I really
held on to and gave me a lot ofcomfort to find those key
verses in the Bible.
Brad Quillen (06:46):
Yeah, a couple of things we want to talk about too
is there's this huge presenceof our faith community that
comes around in times of griefand death.
But before we jump into that, Ialso want to just acknowledge
and be honest that sometimesthere's some hard comments that
come from people that almostmake us feel like minimize our
pain or and those are hard tohear from people sometimes, and
(07:10):
so.
But this is to acknowledge thatsometimes, that that does
happen too.
And so, when we are hoping thatthese people are nothing but
supportive and they're in itwith us, sometimes the comments
do hurt or, like I said,minimize what we're feeling
sometimes.
Erin Nelson (07:25):
Definitely, and it's unfortunate that sometimes
it's more likely to happen in afaith community and that when we
have this hope of seeing aperson again, that sometimes
people can even negate our griefand how much we want their
(07:46):
physical presence in our life.
And just because we'll see himagain doesn't mean that we don't
want him right next to us.
Brad Quillen (07:53):
We miss him yeah.
Colleen Montague (07:54):
What have you two seen or noticed about
families that have that beliefin heaven and that they'll see
their children or their spouseor their loved one again?
Erin Nelson (08:05):
Yeah, I can think about a mom and Brad, you and I,
just with our ministry in thechurch.
I remember one of the moms thatwe were ministering to, her son
died suddenly and she told meone morning that it's always
been her hope that someday, asthey were raising their children
(08:27):
in this Christian tradition,that they would see that person
again, that their kids would goto heaven.
And she said, Erin, he's inheaven.
Like that's all I've everwanted.
And just to know that in ourbelief structure that we will
(08:48):
see them again, it's such acomfort.
I know for me even it's hard toimagine, it's almost too good
to be true.
In some ways, when I thinkabout like I'll actually see
Carter again, I just think likecan that even be true?
Like I can't even believe thatI get to see him again.
And it's such a comfort andjust even when we've heard so
(09:16):
many stories of people who aredying and when they you know the
stories that we hear of themseeing their loved ones, in kind
of that in-between space oflike still being on the earth
and going to heaven, and thestories that they've told, that
families have told us about how,oh, they, you know.
(09:37):
They said, oh, I see, you knowmy mom or my son.
And that is such a beautifulsentiment and experience for
somebody to actually have toknow that they're seeing someone
that's waiting for them.
Brad Quillen (09:54):
I think for me over the years I don't know if I
learned this from one person orI just kind of put it together
from hearing so many differentpeople's statements but it's
kind of that shift in mindsetfrom goodbye to see you later.
And I know that sounds verytrivial and like cookies on the
lower shelf, but there is apiece of that is, even though we
(10:18):
say see you later, we stillmiss that person.
Like my kids went to schoolthis morning.
Right, I miss them throughoutthe day, but I know I'll see
them later, but there's thatreality of it's no longer
goodbye but it's see you later.
And so that was just kind of aand that was years ago, just
kind of a different way that Ijust kind of started to see
alongside I mean there's also asmany funerals as Aaron and Brad
(10:40):
I've done together.
You know there's some of thosesongs that come to my mind.
You know, when we all get toheaven, what a glorious day
that'll be, right, andreunification, and some of those
things that we, we sing aboutand we hope for and we look
forward to.
But it doesn't also minimizethe community, and man.
I wish they were still here andI'd still like to do dinner or
whatever the favorite thing welove to do together watch a game
(11:01):
, whatever it is but just thatshift from it's no longer
goodbye, but see you later.
a a i I h s so
Erin Nelson (11:05):
nd, and to hold your grief.
Alongside that, people and Ireally like what you're saying,
brad, about kind of thatcollective experience that you
can have in a faith community ofall coming together and singing
that same song and justacknowledging together that we
(11:26):
have hope of that reunification.
And what will that be like, youknow, and just wondering
together and seeing that outloud and just coming together in
our faith community.
And I think faith communitieswhat we've learned from families
over the years is they bring somuch strength.
Many times they're the onesthat are organizing the food and
(11:50):
so much of the pieces ofcomfort that can come alongside
and surround a family after atragic death.
So I think what we've heard ispeople's faith community becomes
something that they depend onand it brings them a lot of
comfort and strength to knowthat they're not going to be
(12:12):
alone in this.
They have people that will bethere for them and who are
checking in and stopping by.
And they're even going tochurch and sometimes we know
church can be hard and peoplehave said that first time I went
to church.
And sometimes we know churchcan be hard and people have said
that first time I went tochurch and sing those songs, but
also like what an anchor, yeah,to go in and be with other
(12:33):
people that share something withyou and to know that you can
stand with them and there's justa rhythm of life to just go and
just have that.
And I know, for me, right afterCarter died, I was doing a
retreat that was alreadyscheduled.
It was like a year longspiritual kind of commitment
(12:57):
that I had made, retreatscheduled that year and a lot of
reading I needed to do tocollectively have this
experience, and I kind of hadthis choice of opting out but I
decided to move forward withthat.
So I spent, you know severalyou know times weekends that
(13:18):
year at a monastery with otherpeople that were sharing that
with me and it was there weretimes of silence and rhythms of
just being together and I Ireally brought me a lot of
strength.
And so it's just kind offinding out, I think, for our
listeners, like what do you needright now After someone dies?
(13:39):
How can a community of someonewho shares your spirituality
bring you comfort?
And what rhythms do you need inyour life?
What kind of people do you wantaround you?
And so sometimes just exploringthat idea of spirituality can
be helpful when you're grieving.
Brad Quillen (14:01):
You mentioned going back to church and I've
seen People walk back intochurch and they used to sit.
I mean, we're creatures ofhabit so we sit kind of in the
same section, right.
But what was that like for youthe first time you went back and
sat by yourself and Tylerwasn't with you?
Erin Nelson (14:15):
Yeah, you know it was interesting because, yeah, I
sat in the same place and hewasn't there.
Yeah I just remember it beingjust so tender.
Brad Quillen (14:23):
Yeah.
Just a very fragile time to bethere by myself, you know,
because at that time the kidswere in their you know classes,
yeah, and I remember just therewas a different level of soaking
everything mornings, "I Iactually can remember like words
of sermons and the music thatwas played.
(14:45):
I think it's a time that you'rejust kind of broken open and
you are" absorbing things in anew way that you hadn't before,
because everything kind of fallsaway during that time.
All the things that may havebeen on your mind when you were
it, but church, like when'slunch and you know, did I do the
laundry And's like you arehungry, you know, and you're
(15:11):
thirsty for God and something toget you to the next moment, and
you're just hanging on to everypart of that song and the hugs
that surround you and all ofthat.
All of that, and it'sinteresting because, you know, I
remember a quote that a pastorsaid and I ended up finding this
(15:37):
little saying at a local storeand it was framed and it said
and I thought it was so good andit was something that you know
where I was, at the same time,like, my faith was very
important to me and I wasleaning on God and at the same
(16:15):
time, I felt just that kind ofyou know, wondering and
curiosity about how could thishappen?
And this quote was like what Iread, that it was one time
inscribed on a wall at aconcentration camp and it said
and this is what the pastor saidone of those Sunday mornings I
believe in the sun, even whenit's not shining.
I believe in love even when Idon't feel it.
I believe in God, even whenhe's silent.
And when he said that I'llnever forget, just like thinking
(16:36):
, oh, like wow, just to thinkthat, even when I can't see God
and even when he feels quiet,even when I can't feel His
warmth and love because of thesadness that he's still there,
and so like finding that andputting it on my wall and that
it really just meant so much tome.
(16:57):
So I think I was just ready forany little piece of inspiration
that could help.
Yeah, I've had people say that to me over the
years and it.
But then they'll come back afew weeks later or months later
and they'll say you know, I Godwas silent, but his people
weren't.
Erin Nelson (17:12):
Something to that effect.
I love that their words, right.
Brad Quillen (17:15):
But you know, I asked you kind of point blank
about sitting in church becauseI've seen people that have known
what's going on with someoneand then they sit next to him
for the next few weeks, sothey're not alone, right.
Gary Shriver (17:25):
And so we're not.
Brad Quillen (17:27):
We're already feeling so wife's no longer
sitting next to me.
But when know aren't silent.
(18:16):
I'm like, well sometimes theyneed to be.
, I felt God was silent but, aspeople you know, stepped up,
and so there's so many littleways we can do that food.
Sometimes the years of peopleyou know, because the lawn
hadn't been done and then daddied and so me and a few other
guys go do yard work or just allthese other little things.
Erin Nelson (17:53):
It's so good, yeah, and I love what you're saying
about just sitting next tosomeone and just as we think
about someone who is needingthat extra comfort, it's like
just get closer.
Brad Quillen (18:07):
And you don't need to say anything.
.
Erin Nelson (18:08):
Right, right, comfort.
It's like just get closer andyou don't need to say anything.
Right, right.
So when you said, um, god'speople aren't you know?
jessicashouse.
(19:38):
jessicashouse.
Brad Quillen (18:16):
aren't silent, back, and Well, sometimes they
need to be sometimes sometimesyeah.
Yeah, that that presence, um,we have a mutual friend that
that just has sat with peoplefor months and just gone over
and been with them every daychecking on them and literally
going to their house and justbeing there.
Erin Nelson (18:36):
Just sitting down.
Brad Quillen (18:38):
Hey, we're going to go and take a Brad break
right now, but as we come backfrom that, we're going to talk a
bit about some of that, youthat surround spirituality, but
also how do we haveconversations with our kiddos on
this topic spirituality, butalso how do we have
conversations with our kiddos onthis topic.
Gary Shriver (18:54):
Jessica's House is a children's bereavement center
located in California's CentralValley since 2012.
We provide free peer supportfor children, teens, young
adults and their familiesgrieving a loss.
The when Grief Comes Homepodcast goes along with the book
of the same name.
The book when Grief Comes is agentle guide for parents who are
grieving a partner or childwhile helping their children
(19:15):
through the loss of their parentor sibling.
When Grief Comes Home is nowavailable at all major book
retailers and if you needgrief-related support, please
visit jessicashouseorg todownload our free resources and
be sure to follow Jessica'sHouse on social media.
If you have any questions ortopics that you'd like us to
explore in a future episode,just send Erin, then email to
(19:38):
info at jessicashouseorg.
Brad Quillen (19:42):
Well, welcome back .
And as we come into this secondpart of this episode, we want
to take a few minutes and justtalk about some of the ways
we've heard people makeconnections to God and maybe a
different way of spiritualityand Erin, I know we've heard
tons and tons of stories.
We talk about a lot of thestories, but there's one in
particular.
That kind of talking, it tonefor what we want to talk about a
little bit here in the secondpart of this episode.
(20:04):
Would you share the goldenretriever story with us, friend?
Erin Nelson (20:09):
Oh yeah, we've been talking about this, Brad, and I
think about just several yearsago.
I was talking to someone andshe was just sharing that.
You know, she didn't reallyadopt any formal kind of belief
structure and any she wasn'tpart of a church or you know
anything like that.
But she was telling me that, um, you would, you know her
husband had died.
(20:29):
And she said, you know, aaron,when my husband died, you know
her husband had died.
And she said, you know, erin,when my husband died, you know,
we were at the ER and he diedsuddenly of a heart attack.
And she said I got home and mydog, who had never really jumped
on my bed or you know, hereally had his own bed on the
floor, he just jumped on my bedand he, you know, he really had
(20:49):
his own bed on the floor, hejust jumped on my bed and he was
a golden retriever.
And she said he just laid hishead down like on my neck and
just stayed there all night andjust was comforting me.
And she said there were so manyother parts of kind of nature
that she connected to whetherthat was her dog.
(21:10):
There was one time when she wentto visit family from out of
town and her husband loved tomake this special kind of dip.
It was like some kind of pateor something, and he that was
like his specialty.
He always made it, no matterwhat.
Whenever anybody gathered,gathered, it was always kind of
like what he did, and so itinvolved getting a lot of
(21:35):
ingredients into the blender andone time he put a rubber
spatula into the blender and itlike blended the spatula up, but
he didn't want to throw it away, so he just like poured it on
the counter and then he pickedall the little pieces of rubber
spatula out of this dip.
(21:57):
And so she said you know, aaron.
Then we traveled and she saidwe had this really beautiful,
actually, we were there toremember him and we traveled to
Switzerland, him, and wetraveled to Switzerland.
And she said, and we were onthis in this countryside and we
were toasting to him and we wereremembering him, and they
brought in something you know,like this spread for our bread,
(22:18):
and she said and there was apiece of a rubber spatula in
this little like thing.
And she said we laughed so hardand it was like he was there
and he was just playing a trickon us, and I think of all the
times that people have told usover the years in some way or
another that they just felt alittle nudge.
(22:40):
You know, sometimes they'll sayfrom the universe, from their
loved one, whatever it might be,and so I just love those
stories.
We hear so many of them ingroup and somehow it's almost
like this little message in myown faith tradition.
When I heard her I just thoughtabout the love from God just
(23:01):
touching her and helping herfeel seen, and it just thought
she wasn't forgotten and youknow he was real and it just it.
I think somehow every personand like what I think of is just
finds comfort after, aftersomeone dies, stretching always
(23:23):
.
It brings me so much hope thatthat's what we've experienced.
Brad Quillen (23:27):
When you were talking.
It made me think that the wordseen, but it's just that I
remember you.
Erin Nelson (23:32):
Yeah.
Brad Quillen (23:33):
Even though you feel alone, I still remember you
.
Erin, there's also ways inwhich people have shared with us
over the years and maybe someof the people listening today
where it wasn't more of theindividual piece but it was more
of a collective piece of beingwith a group or that, something
together with others, where theyfelt that nudge to spirituality
.
Erin Nelson (23:53):
Yeah, I think about just that collective experience
of spirituality.
One that comes to mind thatpeople say often is that
experience of being in a yogaclass where they feel connected
to themselves and others andsome form of spirituality that's
bringing them strength, beingable to connect and move and
(24:17):
breathe and even hum together.
I think can be such a sacredexperience for so many people,
and I've heard people say thatthey cry, you know, at the end
of their mat.
Maybe they have tears that needto be shed, or maybe they are
just the gentle stretching or aworkout is exactly what they
(24:40):
need and they feel moreconnected to their own
spirituality and others.
Brad Quillen (24:48):
We've been talking about how people get connected
to God or through spirituality,because there's been a death.
But I want to just ask yousomething that is kind of harder
topic and a little bit of thatis, and that's that
acknowledgement that we're allgoing to experience death at
some point.
Erin Nelson (25:05):
Yeah.
But in the back of our mind weoften say why me?
Or why them?
That I'm going to go throughlife and not have anything bad
and that's a whole other thingto unpack, but there's also,
there is that that piece in ourfaith that God, why us?
Why right now?
Why them?
(25:26):
They were one of the good ones,like all these, these things
that come up, and there's thatreality that there will be
hardship in this life and weacknowledge that, there's a
passage in John that talks aboutin this world, you will have
trouble.
But take heart, I've overcome the world and I
think about just that peace thatwe know this isn't heaven,
(25:46):
right and so, as Christians, ourbelief is that we can expect
suffering, that we know thatthere will be suffering in this
world, and we don't know what itwill look like, but there will
be some form of suffering thatleaves us longing for something
else someday.
That this isn't it.
(26:08):
You know what we experiencehere, and our promise is that
He'll never leave us or forsakeus.
So our promise is His presencethrough whatever we go through.
And so, as we have that,expected suffering, we know it
will be here, but you know howcan we find hope through it and
(26:30):
trust that it won't last forever, because this is not kind of
like, sounds very trite in someways, but this isn't our true
home.
We're longing for that.
Brad Quillen (26:41):
It reminds me we're recording this a few weeks
after Easter that Good Fridayhappens and that's when there's
the death.
But my pastor reminded us thatSundays are coming right, soo
there's always theSunday follows the Good Friday,
with the resurrection and thehope that we have in that.
Erin Nelson (27:19):
And like think about Lazarus the word that's
used for how he responded tothat death is a growl, a growl.
He actually let out thisutterance of the sound.
That was a deep grief, wherewe've heard people say I
couldn't even cry, I just.
It was like something just cameout of me.
That was like a growl andthat's what he did, even though
(27:42):
he had the hope that not onlywas he, would he be resurrected,
right, but he would see himagain for eternity.
Brad Quillen (27:49):
And so, knowing that we can grieve deeply and
lament and cry and do alleverything that we need to do,
because Jesus showed us, and hemodeled, how to be a human on
this earth and really grieve inan authentic way, and there's
those pieces of the individualgrief, but then also collective
(28:10):
grief too, that we see andthat's one of the things we see
here at the house and there'sthat reality of these are some
of the questions that kiddoscoming to the house are asking
and you might be listening,thinking my kid is asking those
very say, same"ou questions ofthat reality of suffering or
that hard, those hard questionsaround suffering, the why us,
(28:34):
why dad, " why mom, why mybrother, why my sister?
why, And those are not easyquestions to answer as a parent
or an immediate with, you justgot custody because someone has
died.
Colleen, I know Erin and I havebeen talking a lot, but what
are some of say, "I to helpprepare adults to be able to
answer some of those questions,or even just the acknowledgement
that they might be coming?
Colleen Montague (28:52):
ou know it's not too different than what
we've been talking about whenkids ask us questions and giving
them answers to the best ofyour ability and so just being
present for their questions,hearing what their thoughts are
are, they're wonderings, and youcan share what you believe to
be true.
You know, I believe thatmommy's in heaven and we'll get
(29:16):
to see her again someday.
Or even if you don't know forsure, any of like you know, none
of us knows what heavenactually looks like, so we can't
actually give that answer.
And so you can say you know, Idon't know for sure, but this is
what I hope it's like, this iswhat I think.
And then, with those angryquestions of the why you don't
(29:37):
have an answer for that, right,you can back it with.
You know the scripture, like youguys shared if, if that feels
right according to your child'sdevelopmental age.
But you can also just say Idon't know and I'm mad too right
now, or I'm wondering that tooright now, because really what
we want is to just hear them andacknowledge the pain they're in
(30:00):
, acknowledge the wonderings,not shut it down, and when they
know, they can just come andexplore those ideas or desires
with you.
That's really "ey gift that youcan offer in this, and so you
know on that note too they mightbe in a different place than
you are.
They might be struggling whileyou're feeling secure, or vice
(30:21):
versa, who knows.
And so it's as hard as it canbe as a parent trying to just
honor where they are, even ifit's not the same spot you're in
.
Brad Quillen (30:31):
Erin, hearing all that, if your kid or kiddos are
not asking , should you beconcerned?
Or should that be raising ayellow flag of caution?
Or what would you say to thoselistening that their kiddos are?
They're okay, they haven'tasked some of those hard
questions.
Colleen Montague (30:48):
When don't ask because they're not sure
they're allowed to ask or talkabout it.
Or I think that was, there behard if we feel like we're
questioning our faith, that canbe looked down upon sometimes,
or we think that people willlook down on us for questioning
God.
And so what you can do as theparent is just take lead and
model that for them and startthe conversation.
(31:11):
Maybe you could say, hey, youknow, today when I saw you at
practice and just how goodyou've gotten at your sport, I
thought, man, I really hopedaddy's watching and I just
thought I wondered if he was.
You know, and if I'll get to,you know, I hope I'm going to
get to see him again and ask himlike, hey, how about him?
(31:33):
And how well you know how greathe got at that sport.
And I just wondered, do youever think the same thing?
You know, just kind of throwingit back and opening that
conversation, kind of itsimagination a little bit too, of
just what are you thinkingabout?
Brad Quillen (31:47):
Aaron, did you're, when have seasons of more
questions or less questions?
w C D d c C w s i h s.
(32:40):
N j j j w t c.
Gary Shriver (33:02):
And I think it was so .
Brad Quillen (33:22):
Hey Erin was still in high school.
No, just just went to college.
Erin Nelson (32:46):
Developmentally, just right, yeah, so after
Carter died and you know, kindof like I've been pretty honest
about this with you know, justit was such a different death
for us and I would say for ourwhole family.
Harsh, and like I said with youknow, having that kind of
(33:14):
preparation after Tyler died andfeeling just so held and and
just I don't know I already isit's just so weird but I felt
ready for it and felt soprepared hey.
Brad Quillen (33:22):
Aaron, I know we were just you and I were just
talking about more of youngerkids House but there's also
those that are listening thathave teenagers, preteens, all
those things that make up thatage range.
And, colleen, what would youtell some of those listening
about some of thosedevelopmental pieces that teens,
preteens, even maybe collegeage kids are walking through?
Colleen Montagu (33:43):
Developmentally .
Just under normal circumstances, it's so typical for
adolescents to bedifferentiating from their
family, to be creating their ownidentity in who they are, what
their own beliefs are.
So that's common amongadolescents anyways.
(34:03):
So if you add grief on top ofthat with so much you know
nuance to it, there can be angeror confusion or questioning,
you know, of why didn't God keepour family safe, why did he let
this happen?
And so you might find youradolescent, your teenager, your
(34:25):
young adult, questioning theirfaith in a deeper way, beyond
just creating their own identity, and that can be really scary
for you as a parent if itdiffers from where you are, and
it can be a little nervewracking for parents anyways.
Erin Nelson (34:42):
Yeah, and Colleen, I'm also just thinking of the
kids that we've seen here atJessica's house and how
sometimes they are also reallydeepening their faith and how
it's something that they'refinding more and more solace in
their faith and they're findingmore strength in their faith.
Maybe they have a group offriends I think about just kids
(35:06):
who their youth group friendsare everything to them and
they're going and they'refinding a faith community for
their own for the very firsttime and so that can bring so
much strength and can reallyhelp them as they are working
through this grief experienceand when they're feeling kind of
(35:28):
scared for their safety, thatthey are finding their friends
are so important to them andwhen they have a faith community
it's really just watching themand hearing from them about how
much it helps them.
Colleen Montague (35:44):
I think you know with what you're saying,
Erin.
It just the same messageapplies either way.
Just meet your child, meet yourteen where they are.
Just meet them where they are,be there for the questions, for
the exploration, because that'ssetting you up to be one of
those people that they'llprocess you with yes, and that's
what you want to do.
lea n
Erin Nelson (36:03):
Be that trusted parent and that they can go to.
Colleen Montague (36:06):
Mm-hmm, we were talking earlier about just
finding connections spirituallyin nature, and I was thinking
about how you can bring your kidalong with you in that, whether
it's finding signs out andabout through animals, or I've
heard a lot about like numbers,like on a clock, like sequences
(36:27):
of numbers, lights flickering,bringing know, bringing your
kids into that as well, or, lena, listening to what their
assumptions are, and I wasthinking about that story you
shared with me, erin, aboutballoons and what happens when
they escape somebody's littlehand.
.
Erin Nelson (38:27):
And I think that's such a sweet image that your
kids had in those moments ofjust imagining their dad holding
this bunch of balloons, like tome right now, that's a really
sweet image and so that's okayto just go with that right and
just imagine that with them.
sweetIt's, I was when the kidswere little and you know, kind
of growing up without Tyler.
They would sometimes, you know,you well a helium balloon and
you know it's such a tragedywhen they escape and go into the
sky and the about an justlooking up and watching it go up
into the clouds and they're sosad.
So one of them just said, well,maybe daddy will catch it for
us.
And just said, well, maybedaddy will catch it for us.
And we had so much fun thinkingabout Tyler having every
balloon and someday when theygot there to heaven that he
would hand them a big bunch ofballoons and that he would have
caught all their helium balloonsand it did help in the moment.
Erin so, yeah, I think, just asthey processed heaven and their
dad being there and that someday, especially for Cody, I think
about it just like he was soyoung when his dad died and
didn't When really know him asErin and didn't don't he doesn't
have as many memories sweetnessof really knowing the essence
of his dad and who he really isand just being able to be
reunited and just how you knowTyler lives in both of them and
just how much I see them and nowwe're, you know, just they're
adults, and so it's so amazingto see him be inside of them to
see him be inside of them, and Ithink that's such a sweet image
that your kids had in thosemoments of just imagining their
dad holding this bunch ofballoons Like to me right now,
that's a really sweet image andso that's okay to just go with
that right and just imagine thatwith them.
Colleen Montague (38:27):
It's kind of a nice little place for them When
put their thoughts or theirsadness is just imagining their
dad holding their balloons.
Yeah Well, I am glad you sharedthat story because it goes
along well with the artinvitation we were thinking
about.
An art activity that you coulddo with your kids would be to
send up thoughts or notes totheir parent, and one way that
(38:52):
we've done this is you can buydissolvable paper and invite
your child to write a letter totheir loved one or to God, draw
a picture and then put thatdissolvable paper into a little
container of bubbles and it willdissolve and hands, so with the
rest of it, and then have themblow bubbles up into the sky and
(39:14):
whether your child's imaginingthey're going up, just floating
away, floating into the clouds,or that they're going to reach
heaven so that their parent ortheir you know, or God can
receive it, um is a nice littlesweet activity that you could do
together.
Brad Quillen (39:31):
Erin and Colleen, thanks for this hard
conversation today.
This is tough topic, and thisbrings us to the end of today's
episode, and it's also bringingus towards the end of our first
season of When Grief Comes Home.
Erin, I know there's somethingyou wanted to share with our
listeners today as we wrap upthis podcast.
Why don't you go ahead and takea moment.
Erin Nelson (39:51):
We're wrapping up the very first season ever of
When Grief Comes Home, and, justas our listeners have given us
really great feedback, I justwant to say if you could just
take a moment to rate ourpodcast and also write a review.
It helps get it into the handsof those who need it most, and
(40:15):
so every time you review apodcast it goes up a little bit
into ratings, and so if somebodyjust types in grief in a
podcast search, they can findthis podcast, and, as we know
that it's been so helpful forparents who are grieving, we
want to get it into more hands.
So please rate and review.
Gary Shriver (40:57):
Jessica's House is a children's bereavement center
located in California's CentralValley since 2012.
We provide free peer supportfor children, teens, young
adults and their familiesgrieving a loss.
The When Grief Comes Homepodcast goes along with the book
of the same name.
The book When Grief Comes Homeis a gentle guide for parents
(41:19):
who are grieving a partner orchild while helping their
children through the loss oftheir parent or sibling.
When Grief Comes Home is nowavailable at all major book
retailers and if you needgrief-related support, please
visit jessicashouse.
org to download our freeresources and be sure to follow
Jessica's House on social media.
If you have any questions ortopics that you'd like us to
(41:42):
explore in a future episode,just send us an email to info@
jessicashouseorg.
Thank you for joining us andwe'll see you next time for When
Grief Comes Home.
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