November 18, 2024 • 38 mins
Welcome to the When Grief Comes Home podcast. We're glad you're here. This podcast supports parents who are grieving a spouse, partner, or child while helping their children who are living through the loss of a parent or sibling. With personal grief stories and professional guidance, we offer parents practical tips for supporting their child who is grieving while caring for their own grief.
In this episode, we explore how the holidays can increase the weight of our grief. How can you honor each person's unique way of grieving while communicating about individual needs surrounding the holidays? Practical adjustments, such as minimizing decorations and rethinking gift-giving, are suggested to help families through the holidays.
We discover how parents can model healthy mourning for their children during the holidays and share ways to remember their loved ones.
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For more information on Jessica’s House or for additional resources, please go to jessicashouse.org
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello and welcome to when Grief Comes Home, a podcast
dedicated to parents livingthrough loss while supporting
their child.
Let's meet the team.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I'm Erin Nelson, founding executive director at.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
Jessica's House.
Hi, I'm Colleen Montague,program director for Jessica's
House and a licensed marriageand family therapist.
Speaker 4 (00:21):
Hi, I'm Brad Quillen and I'm the host of when Grief
Comes Home.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Now through this podcast, they'll share grief
resources and coping skills,heartfelt stories and insights
to support parents as they raisechildren who are grieving.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
Together you'll find strength as we learn to live
with loss and find ways to heal.
Well, hello, hello.
It's Brad from Jessica's house,with Thanksgiving around the
corner.
Today we're talking about theapproaching holidays.
The holidays can feel quiteoverwhelming, especially when
you're grieving and missingsomeone important at family
gatherings.
Aaron, I know in your personalstory that Carter died at the
end of September, and thenthere's the memorial and funeral
(01:06):
and there's people at yourhouse constantly, and then
things kind of quiet down in themonth of October and the next
major thing that's coming on thecalendar is Thanksgiving.
And so, a few weeks away,there's a reality of a normal
holiday coming.
That's not going to be normal.
That's going to be so verydifferent this next year or
(01:28):
these next few weeks later,after Carter had died.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yeah, I think when I think about November and I think
about Thanksgiving.
It's one of my favoriteholidays, you know, it's a time
where everybody comes togetherand in our family I always look
forward to that.
And not physically havingsomebody around the table at the
gathering, the energy that hebrought to our family, not
(01:55):
having that, it felt impossibletruly to even go forward with
Thanksgiving without him.
And so I think, instinctively,I was thinking that if we could
do something different, if wecould go somewhere else, which
we did we went to another familymember's house, but it was
(02:18):
really hard to just not wake upand have him in the house just
on Thanksgiving morning and whenthe parade is on, and normally
he would come through and tasteeverything and just, you know,
he just had such a presence and,um, just not to have him and to
know that we would go throughthat day without him.
Right, cause your house is kindof the landing zone for the kids
(02:39):
and the grandkids and thatwould be the natural place where
Thanksgiving would be, but thatwasn't that.
(03:00):
You're holding kind of thisfeeling of can we just ignore
this and just get through ourday?
Alongside that, you have otherkids, and so I had another, you
know teen in the house where I'mlike I don't want.
I want to honor what she needsto.
What does she need today forher Thanksgiving and all the
traditions that we have, and sobeing aware of that too, it's
(03:23):
interesting you say that can itjust pass by?
Speaker 4 (03:25):
It's like can it just be Saturday.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Right.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
Right when you go to bed Wednesday, can it just be
Saturday?
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Exactly.
You know, can we just skip overthis this year and not have to
feel that and that's not?
That's just not possible.
So somehow you kind of just getthrough it.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
Well, and we talk about the idea that you have to
go through grief.
Kind of just get through it.
Well, and we talk about theidea that you have to go through
grief.
You can't go around it.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
And this is a part of that.
Even with the holiday thatyou've got to go through, these
days, you have to go throughthem and find ways to remember
them, and I remember that wejust mentioned him in our prayer
that we just mentioned him inour prayer.
You know we did a little toastand we just we kept him in mind
throughout the day and everybodyknew that.
(04:12):
You know we were all sad.
It was just like his absencewas on everybody's shoulders
that day and it was palpable.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
And there's things that everybody remembers a
little different of what it waslike with Carter in the house on
Thanksgiving, whether he'swalking through grabbing food
that he's not supposed to.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
That's for the guests that are coming over the other
family and sticking his fingerin this or that.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
Yeah, right, but that everybody has those different
feelings of of what they'remissing in those days.
You know in that that thatholiday.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Yeah, and you have that awareness of what everybody
needs and how hard it is andthere's.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
Can I ask you this was there, or has there been
kind of a domino emotion whereone person says something and
it's kind of just takes you backbecause you didn't even see it
through that lens and thenhere's a whole wave of emotion
that you didn't know was there.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Yeah, I can think of times when and I think that what
you're speaking about is sosuch a hallmark of grief,
because everyone is at differentplaces at different times and,
I think, giving each other thatgrace to be wherever you are.
But sometimes, sometimes it'sjust more like highly reactive,
(05:24):
where someone's just upset andmad or, and so the tension is a
little higher than usual andsomething that may not have been
a big deal before feels reallyhuge and being able to just have
an understanding likeeveryone's hurting today.
You know we're all hurting.
We're not who we used to be.
(05:45):
This is whatever this tensionis about is not about that.
It's about what we're all goingthrough.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
There's a deeper hurt .
Speaker 2 (05:56):
There's a deeper hurt .
Speaker 4 (05:57):
yeah, it doesn't take much to set someone off.
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yeah, it takes a lot of understanding to honor each
person and their grief process,especially during the holidays
and, as you're anticipating andI think when you talked about
Thanksgiving, you're gettingthrough that day, but then it's
like all the Christmascommercials are coming and
(06:20):
you're getting ready for thatand you're thinking about what
is the next day hold.
I know in our family, somethingthat the next day held for us is
that we in our family wecelebrate Christmas cards and a
lot of them, you know, reallyplan it.
So those Christmas cards showup the day after Thanksgiving
(06:49):
and we go get our tree the dayafter Thanksgiving and I
remember thinking, as I started,seeing Christmas stuff out at
stores and everything, likethere is no way I can face all
of my friends and family whohave those intact families and
they'll be sending those cardsthat are just in, you know, with
(07:11):
all their smiling faces andeveryone's there.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
Or even needing to do a Christmas card and you send
it out, right?
Because how in the world?
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Yeah, we've never sent another Christmas card out
and that was part of our familytradition.
But I can't even think ofsending a Christmas card out
without Carter.
That's not even an option forme.
And so to end but then toreceive those, so I was
expressing that beforeThanksgiving to a good friend
(07:41):
and I said I just I think I'llhave to burn any Christmas card
that comes into our mailbox yeah.
And so when her showed up shewrote in big black letters burn
mine first.
So I sent her a picture oflighting the envelope.
I could not burn, actually herfamily photos but with the
envelope, um, just like on fireand just you know.
(08:03):
But I just love that um, ourcommunity.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
let me grieve in that way and express that and that I
could just say, like that isgoing to be hard for me, I
didn't even think about theChristmas card thing, and you're
not you and I've never talkedabout that going forward after
Carter's death that you haven'tsent Christmas cards, but not
only receiving them, but it'syou know, in the beginning of
October we always go take theChristmas card picture, Like
that's not a reality anymoreeither, and then you feel the
(08:29):
guilt of not sending them rightfor, for, if that's been a
tradition or things that peopleexpect from you you know those
things that?
there's the guilt with that.
I'm glad you mentioned some ofthose other family things
because after the break insegment two, we're going to talk
about preparing as a family.
But I know it's hard andthere's some of those natural
(08:51):
difficulties that come withholidays and it feels awful busy
.
And so, colleen, there's somuch pressure for the holidays
and then it's like magnifiedwhen we experience a loss or a
death in our family.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Absolutely To echo what Aaron said, having that
sense of dread leading up to theholidays is so real, and so we
just want to give you ourlistener permission right now to
release yourself from anypressures you may be putting
upon yourself to do things asyou used to do them, because it
(09:25):
can't be that way anymore.
It will never be the same.
So, acknowledging the hard andbeing okay with making some
changes or doing thingsdifferently, rethinking it a
little bit, and with any changeyou make this year, you can
always go back and do itdifferently or do it the same
(09:45):
the following year.
Nothing is set in stone.
No change is set in stone, andso really take a moment to
reflect on what you need withthis approaching holiday season
and then reflect on what yourkiddos need and, depending on
their ages, you can get theminvolved in that conversation as
(10:06):
well, which I know we're goingto touch on later.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
I know there's people listening that are saying but
my kids are expecting, my kidsdeserve the magic, yes, the
magic and the awe of Christmas.
But on the other side of theirbrain it's saying I can't, I
can't do it all.
And I, because I've heard thatin groups for years.
(10:33):
I've heard that, right, I wantto do it for my kids, but I just
can't.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Yeah, I think the pressure to make the magic
happen, you know, for parentsit's it's really tough and when
you're feeling so sad and youjust don't even feel like you
can do it.
And I remember times where Iwould be watching like a
Christmas movie with my daughterand I would have to just go
into the other room and cry fora little while.
(11:00):
You don't want to even have todo the work of it all.
It's so daunting to have thesadness on you, to know it just.
Everything feels like such aheavy lift.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
It's not like it used to be, when it did feel light
and more joyful and, um, youknow, and maybe it did have that
natural magic and now it's justgone because there's a pressure
to have before the death,there's the pressure to have
everything prepared and food andall those things, and now
(11:33):
there's such an emotional gap,hurt, chasm, whatever word we
want to put there, becausesomeone's not there.
That it's.
It's magnified all the more.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Yeah, it's like loud, it's like that's just, it's
like someone is always like.
Speaker 4 (11:52):
It's palpable.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Yeah, it is, and it's just there's a vibration in the
room I was just going to say,can you, can you talk to the?
Speaker 4 (11:59):
the reality of you feel it in the room Like even
though you're with your family.
You feel that tenseness.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Yeah, you feel it's just a heaviness, and I know
we've talked before about howgrief has a natural heaviness of
lethargy.
It like pulls you down, and soyou know everyone is feeling
that in the same way and youalso notice it when someone's
not grieving and they'reentering the space because they
have something that's very youknow.
(12:30):
It's such a big contrast towhat you're feeling.
So when you are out and aboutand you're hearing the music and
the stores and all of that, Iknew even at Jessica's house we
kind of want this to be aneutral zone.
We don't like over decorate forthe holidays and just being
able to honor families that theymay need a break from that.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
Yeah, yeah, it's a balance for us that there's
families that do want to seethat and try and stay in a bit
of rhythm in that, and there'ssome that, yeah, don't want to
see it too, and it's a balance.
You said something about thosethat aren't grieving, and when
you see that in the family isI'm going to put you on the spot
Is that an irritation to people?
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Which part.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
When you know that that person's kind of coming in,
skipping in to another tune,that they're not dealing with it
, that maybe they're giving thevibe that it's everything's
going to be okay, they'rewhistling, whistling Dixie, as
they come in the house and kindof gliding in and gliding out
when everyone else is, there'sthat tense and the heaviness
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Yeah, and I think that speaks to how people do it
so differently.
And it may be that some peopleare able to kind of delay their
grief in some way or put it likeon a shelf for a minute and
they want to do the holidaysdifferently by engaging the way
they did before, and they mayjust see grief differently and
(13:55):
be feeling it differently.
But I think, for those who arereally feeling it all acutely,
that it can be irritating.
And it kind of really takes meback to some of our families,
and one of even our familyguidelines that we have in
groups is that you may hearpeople laughing and we just want
to acknowledge that that'sannoying and so you know.
(14:18):
And also grief Sometimes youhave, like where you're laughing
, even during a holidaygathering, is something funny
that the person said, or your,you know, have those little
moments.
So not that you never laugh, butI think if someone is bringing
in a lot of levity that it canbe annoying.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
Distracting.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
To add to this conversation.
I was struck by what you saidearlier, aaron, about how
everybody's hurting.
You know there can be peoplethat are just quick to that
tension or that anchor.
What if your family gatheringspreviously weren't always super
enjoyable?
Sometimes it's a really it's abig pot with a lot of
(15:03):
personalities, and sometimesholidays are just hard before
the death.
And so really, if that is yoursituation, do you need to really
think about if that's the bestplace for you this year?
Speaker 4 (15:18):
They're already tense .
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Yeah, yeah, and that's the kind of what you
talked about earlier, colleen.
It's just that planning andreally sitting down with your
family and, especially as we'respeaking to parents today, being
able to sit down with yourchildren and your family and
just saying, like, what do weneed for the holidays?
You know, it's just one day in,or maybe two or three, but just
(15:42):
being able to say, like, whatdo we need?
And is it that you minimize,you know, the decor this year?
It that you minimize, you knowthe decor this year?
And is it that you, you decidethat you're not going to buy
gifts, like you always did?
And or, like you said, you maypivot for that huge family
gathering?
And we've heard stories offamilies who say, hey, we're
(16:03):
going to just stay here in ourlittle family, cause that's all
we can do this year, but we wantto do a video call with the big
family and just, you know, dosomething like that.
Or maybe they just pop in justfor a brunch and then they go
back for the rest of the day andgo back home, and so it's so
different for everyone, butmaking a plan and, like you said
earlier, just making makingsure it's flexible and knowing
(16:27):
you can change it at any time.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
And at the top of that plan, put yourself first
and just make sure that you'rereally building in time for rest
for yourself, for your familynights at home, turning off your
phone for a few hours, having afamily movie night and then
just taking care of yourselvesphysically, getting out for
(16:50):
walks If you like, yoga ormeditation practices like that.
Speaker 4 (16:55):
Yeah I would say don't plan back to back nights.
You know there's those we thinkwe can.
But then we're exhausted afterthat first first event and you
should be like, cause it justtakes so much more during the
holidays?
I had a mom in group one timesay to say that she told her
whole family, you know she washosting Thanksgiving or
Christmas, I don't remember theexact holiday, but she was
(17:16):
hosting the whole holiday andshe had just said, if I go to my
room I'm fine, but I just needsome space because I miss my son
.
And so she had that and leteverybody know that I'm going to
be okay.
I just might need some timealone and to cry and I'll be
okay.
You can come check on me, I'mgoing to be okay.
But I thought that was veryclever.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
I like that, brad, and I think what you're talking
about is that she was listeningto her body and I know we've
talked a lot about how grief isenergy in your body and so where
we don't want to get into asituation where we feel like we
need to cry and that's buildingup in us and we have to just
shove it down, it's just likeletting that be.
(18:00):
Whatever it is that you need todo at that moment, and if you
need to cry and I'm thinkingabout even the anxiety and grief
and how that can also come in.
For people during the holidays,it's already a time that's very
stressful and so sometimes it'sso simple.
We talk sometimes in groupabout humming and even whistling
(18:23):
and how just that can lead tosome breath work that can just
naturally calm your body, somebreath work that can just
naturally calm your body, and soit could be something so simple
as going into another room andjust humming or just a really
long exhale and just being ableto calm your body, just maybe
swaying side to side and helpingconnect your brain a little bit
(18:46):
during a stressful time, ifthings feel very overwhelming
wherever you are a little bitduring a stressful time, if
things feel very overwhelmingwherever you are, but knowing
that your body is a resource,especially during the holidays,
to learn ways that you canintegrate when you're really
stressed and resource yourself.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
And planning for those breaks, Planning
absolutely Ahead of time.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
So, Colleen, there's other things that we we can do
to prepare you, know our body,for some of the motion that that
can just pop up in the.
So you're getting to knowyourself again, and it's going
to be an evolving process, butfor right now, what does that
look like?
What are those needs?
And so this is the time tolearn that.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
Yeah, and we're going to take a little bit of a break
, but when we come back we'regoing to talk about how do we
make a plan as a family, how dowe involve our kids in that.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
And then what does that look like for us as a whole
family?
Jessica's House is a children'sbereavement center located in
California's Central Valleysince 2012.
Jessica's House provides freepeer support for children, teens
, young adults and theirfamilies grieving a loss.
If you need grief-relatedsupport, please visit
jessicashouseorg to download ourfree resources and be sure to
follow Jessica's House on socialmedia.
(20:17):
And if you have any questionsor topics you'd like us to
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Speaker 4 (20:28):
Well, welcome back.
And, as we were talking about afew minutes ago, Colleen Aaron
mentioned the idea that so manyparents are listening to this
with kiddos and they're goinginto the holidays.
How might they make a plan tomake it through?
But how do you even start theconversation with your kiddos
about this idea and theheaviness that's going to be
(20:49):
there and the extra emotion?
Speaker 3 (20:52):
Being real about everything you just said.
Yeah, it all depends on the ageof your child and the depth of
which you can bring them intodecisions.
But just being real about it, Iwonder what you're wondering.
This is going to be hard thisyear.
It's so different.
And just seeing what theirthoughts are first, it's nice to
(21:14):
hear from the kids first theycan really give you some
direction and guidance as towhat's going on in their hearts
or mind.
Asking them what's important toyou, what do you need this
Thanksgiving or this Christmas?
What do you want to keep doing?
Is there anything that doesn'tfeel good, that you don't want
to do?
Speaker 2 (21:34):
I'm just wondering too about asking about their
worries, like, what are youworried about when you think
about the holidays, what areyour worries?
And then being able to addressthem and making a plan around
their worries, and is thereanything you can do to mitigate
some of those worries and anyany way that you can build in
(21:55):
how to cope if those worrieshappen?
Speaker 4 (21:59):
because so many times I think parents are trying to
guess what their kids reactionsare going to be or what they
need, but we're saying just ask,and great asking comes in the
midst of proximity with yourkids.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Yeah, and they may not have any answers.
Just like you, they're figuringthis out too.
This is all new for them aswell.
So then you can propose somechoices, some options.
Maybe they don't even realize.
I haven't even thought about itthat, or they don't even realize
that you don't have to do thethings you once did.
Maybe that will come as arelief or maybe that will make
(22:37):
them realize how important it isto them to keep those
traditions.
Yeah, just trying to give a lotof choice when you can during a
time where so much has beenstripped away from your family.
Speaker 4 (22:50):
Yeah, because they don't want to maybe go to
grandma's house where we'vealways done Christmas, because
that's dad's side of the familyor mom's side of the family.
Just make it extra hard becausethey're going to be with all
that side of the family.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Absolutely, and just throwing out ideas for them,
(23:34):
no-transcript, and how you wantto honor them and bring them in,
bring your child in, or bringthey could.
You could do that with a mom ora dad if your spouse or partner
died, and so being able to, youknow, just think about like
(23:56):
what could you?
What might you do onThanksgiving?
Do you want to do a toast tothem?
Do you want to go around thetable and, instead of saying
what I'm thankful for, say if Icould say thank you to that
person who died.
this is what I would say to them.
And so what is it that you canincorporate in talking to your
(24:18):
child about?
Like, how does that sound foryou?
Is there anything that you'dlike to say?
Do you want to write somethingand so being able to just bounce
ideas off of them too, aboutwhat they might want?
Speaker 4 (24:29):
And there's so many of those writing prompts or
those conversation starters too,to be able to have those.
What I miss, you know what?
What I would love to do again,like you're saying, all those
things of of being able to havethose conversations.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Yeah, I wish I could tell you like, even after
Thanksgiving, you know, beingable to say I would you know, is
what do you wish you could havesaid you know to dad about your
day today.
You know, what do you wish hecould know about that?
And so being able to bring theminto those natural
conversations to keep thatconnection with the person.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
Colleen.
What are some practical thingsthat we could give parents that
are facing that first holiday?
It could even be the secondholiday and they're feeling a
little bit more emotion tied tosecond or third year even but
what are just some of thosepractical things?
I know there's things that wetalk about often in groups, that
that we bring up for familiesthat are here.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
As best you can, having a plan in place.
Again, during a season of somuch lack of control and
uncertainty, a plan can feelreally empowering.
Even if you don't utilize theplan, knowing that it's there
can be a nice safety net.
And so what social invitationdo you not want to say yes to
(25:48):
this year?
Do you want to decline?
Which do you think you want totry?
And if you accept it, having abackup plan, knowing that you
may need to decline the day ofyou could prep the host with
that we're planning on comingfor now I'll let you know
something changes having twoseparate cars, maybe so that you
(26:08):
can leave if you need to, ifthe other person you're with is
having a good time and wants tostay and, on that note, having a
code word.
Yeah, or if one of the kiddosneeds to leave, right, yes
exactly, and so just having thatplan in place with your kids
and yourself can help you kindof navigate through that
(26:28):
uncertainty, because you mayhave a good time or it may be
really hard and you need to exit.
Speaker 4 (26:34):
I used to work with a gentleman that would joke, but
we honestly did it a differentjob where we'd have plan A and B
, but then we always thoughtthrough C, d and E, like just
what, if, what if?
And so that's, that's a realityand grief Definitely, and you
might have a plan going in, but,boy, it might look different 10
minutes in.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Absolutely, and so it's okay if it doesn't go the
way that you planned, just beingreally flexible with yourself.
Speaker 4 (27:02):
And it's probably not going to go the way you planned
.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
Right yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Good point.
Something we've heard in groupsis I know parents will say I
want to always have my own carwhen we go somewhere, and so
being able to say, like I'mgoing to stop in, I may not be
able to stay very long and letthe host know that you'd love to
maybe try to accept theinvitation, but if you have your
(27:29):
own car, sometimes it can helpto just feel like you can leave
when you need to.
And so the other pieces that Ithink we're talking about is
just even during the holidays,maybe you need to just get
takeout if you can and not tryto create some of those foods
(27:51):
that maybe you aren't always had, and so just giving yourself a
lot of gentleness during thisseason of not making the magic
happen and just taking thepressure off as much as possible
.
Speaker 4 (28:07):
I had a counselor friend.
I'm going to put both of you onthe spot on this, because with
kiddos this applies, but alsowith with the parents as much as
possible.
There's so much that we don'tknow how we're going to feel
(28:27):
until we get there or we seewho's there, that there's just
that reality of I'm going to beanxious walking in and there's a
good chance I'll be moreanxious too when I get there
yeah, and you don't know untilyou get there.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
I can remember a gathering I had at a friend's
house after tyler died andeveryone was just celebrating
really and just they weretogether and having a really
good time and I just didn't feelthat inside of me it didn't
feel possible.
And I remember just goingoutside and it was like cold and
I just well, I wasn't outside,it was in their garage and I
(29:03):
remember just stepping intotheir garage and just sitting on
the step and just crying, youknow, and just seeing.
I feel so different thaneveryone else does in this
moment and I can't muster upthat celebratory feeling and I
just need to be where I am andjust take a second.
And you know, I knew youmentioned crying earlier.
It's such a relief and it'slike almost like it helps you
(29:26):
and we know the benefit ofcrying and how much it regulates
your nervous system and howmuch better you really do feel
after you cry, justphysiologically.
And so being able to do thatwhen you need to is so huge and
you don't know how you'll feel.
But I think what we're talkingabout is that you're planning
(29:46):
the best you can, is that you'replanning the best you can, and
so, and that ambiguity for kidsbeing able to look at all the
possibilities and try to planfor it, and if it doesn't work
out, how will we get through it?
Speaker 1 (29:59):
If it doesn't work out.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
you know we're going to be together.
We can be open and talk aboutit, be honest and make the
changes that are needed.
Speaker 4 (30:08):
Yeah, yeah, like in sports, where you call that
audible.
Right, you change when you getthere a little bit, but do have
a plan going in.
But know that that there mightneed to be some edits as you, as
you get there.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
What do you guys think of that slogan?
Fake it till you make it.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
No, absolutely no.
This is my baseline response.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
No, absolutely no, this is my baseline response
yeah, because we have topractice listening to our bodies
and being honest and authenticin the room.
I think that's the only waywe're healing in grief and being
(30:49):
able to show how we really feelwith everyone, and I don't
think there's any way aroundthat.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
What if there's a moment where you do just have to
get through it?
Speaker 2 (31:00):
I think we all do that right and I think that's
okay If you're having toespecially I'm thinking about
work settings, professionalsettings and sometimes you just
have to take a breath and getthrough a meeting or something
like that.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
I'm thinking, while there will be times where that's
necessary, being true toyourself and attending to
yourself later when you can, anddipping back into that space
and going there any chance thatyou are able to.
And so that came up when youtalked about going into the
garage Like you, just youcouldn't fake it and you went
(31:36):
and you just sat and you were inyour grief and you were there
with it.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Yeah, and I think having a person that you can be
honest with to say, oh man, itprobably looked like I was okay,
but I'm not really feeling thatokay right now, and just being
able to somehow express that tosomebody when you have to go
against your natural feeling ofhow you are really inside of you
(32:03):
walking in the world, and evenif you have to put on that front
because it might not be safe inthe moment to put your real
self out there, If you have thatconversation with that friend
of here's where I'm at I justgot to leave tonight Like,
instead of the faking it, that'sthe invitation for them to
(32:26):
check on you the next day or acouple of days later, rather
than you saying you faking itand them thinking you're doing
just fine.
Yeah, and how much energy doesit take to fake something?
And also it sends a confusingmessage to others, exactly
Because people know when you'renot okay.
Speaker 4 (32:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Like you don't even need.
I mean you know it's hard, butit's just like, not okay.
Yeah, like you don't even need.
I mean you know it's hard, butit's just like.
And also that every well, Iwant to say most people want to
understand more about yourexperience and they want you to
be honest and even if you andthat's where saying like I just
can't be here right now and mostof the time what we've heard
from families, as when I finallysaid that people were like of
(33:09):
course you can't, like it's okay, yeah, I get it, you need to
leave, yeah, and then, that theycare about you and they're
gonna check in on you yeah, andsometimes we put more pressure
on ourselves to keep that.
Whatever it was.
However, we were functioningbefore.
We're keeping that bar forourselves when nobody expects
that out of us.
We're keeping that bar forourselves when nobody expects
(33:32):
that out of us, but we'reexpecting it out of ourselves.
Speaker 4 (33:35):
And I think most people would choose authenticity
than fake facade.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Absolutely, it just takes all.
When you talked about ambiguitycreating, I mean that for sure
creates more ambiguity, whichmakes more everyone anxious.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
Yeah, adds way more to yourself too.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (33:57):
In faking it.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
And, as we've said before, you are modeling
mourning for your children.
Speaker 4 (34:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
And so being authentic gives them permission
to do the same and not have tofake it till they make it Wow.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
That's in.
There's so much freedom in thatright.
There's so much healing.
When you can't, when your kidsare watching, you just show up
as your real self and you're notsay oh, like so happy, and then
you're closing the door to thecar and you know, yeah, where
they can let in your teachingthem and modeling, like you said
(34:31):
, how you know that we're in aperiod of mourning and we've
said this before this is notgoing to last forever.
But these early days of grief,be where you are, especially
during the holidays.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
And you're modeling that you can let yourself out
for a few minutes of steppingout of that party or needing to
leave, that it's okay.
Modeling that for your children, that they can do that as well
when needed.
Hey, a few minutes ago, erin,you talked about a toast, but
there's a number of differentways that we can remember those
that have died, while we alsohonor our grief.
(35:06):
Would you mind sharing a coupleof those different ways with us
?
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Yeah, well, I think we learn so much from our
families here at Jessica's house, and some of the ideas we've
learned and heard over the yearsis some people like to select
an ornament in memory.
Sometimes it's like they havelike a theme that reminded them
of that person and so they aredoing that.
(35:29):
I've heard of ornamentexchanges in families where each
person brings an ornament andthey open them even at
Thanksgiving where they can hangthem on their tree and each
person gets to take home anornament that reminds them of
the person.
Sometimes it's just that youwant to visit the grave more
often or a scattering site alittle more often during that
(35:52):
season, maybe making theirfavorite food during the season
or just being intentional aboutjust sharing those memories of
them around the table.
And some people even do alittle bit more of a place in
their home where they might havecandles and photos of the
person and then they may havesome, um, just holiday kinds of
(36:15):
decor, but they incorporate theperson, um that, their loved one
, around that and and just makethis time a little bit more of a
time of remembrance.
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (36:27):
Well, colleen and Aaron, thank you so much for
talking about the changingseasons and the holiday that's
right around the corner, and forthose of you listening, don't
forget to reach out to ourwebsite at jessicashouseorg for
more resources, or you can alsolook in the show notes below in
this podcast.
Make sure you join us next timeas we do another episode of
when Grief Comes Home, and we'llbe discussing additional ways
(36:48):
to honor your person's memoryduring the holiday season.
Until then, we wish you well.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Jessica's House is a children's bereavement center
located in California's CentralValley since 2012.
We provide free peer supportfor children, teens, young
adults and their familiesgrieving a loss.
If you need grief-relatedsupport, please visit
jessicashouseorg to download ourfree resources and be sure to
(37:16):
follow Jessica's House on socialmedia, and if you have any
questions or topics you'd likefor us to explore in future
episodes, just send us an emailto jessicashouseorg.
Thank you for joining us andwe'll see you next time, for
when Grief Comes Home.
Hello and welcome to when Grief Comes Home, a podcast
dedicated to parents livingthrough loss while supporting
their child.
Let's meet the team.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I'm Erin Nelson, founding executive director at.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
Jessica's House.
Hi, I'm Colleen Montague,program director for Jessica's
House and a licensed marriageand family therapist.
Speaker 4 (00:21):
Hi, I'm Brad Quillen and I'm the host of when Grief
Comes Home.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Now through this podcast, they'll share grief
resources and coping skills,heartfelt stories and insights
to support parents as they raisechildren who are grieving.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
Together you'll find strength as we learn to live
with loss and find ways to heal.
Well, hello, hello.
It's Brad from Jessica's house,with Thanksgiving around the
corner.
Today we're talking about theapproaching holidays.
The holidays can feel quiteoverwhelming, especially when
you're grieving and missingsomeone important at family
gatherings.
Aaron, I know in your personalstory that Carter died at the
end of September, and thenthere's the memorial and funeral
(01:06):
and there's people at yourhouse constantly, and then
things kind of quiet down in themonth of October and the next
major thing that's coming on thecalendar is Thanksgiving.
And so, a few weeks away,there's a reality of a normal
holiday coming.
That's not going to be normal.
That's going to be so verydifferent this next year or
(01:28):
these next few weeks later,after Carter had died.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yeah, I think when I think about November and I think
about Thanksgiving.
It's one of my favoriteholidays, you know, it's a time
where everybody comes togetherand in our family I always look
forward to that.
And not physically havingsomebody around the table at the
gathering, the energy that hebrought to our family, not
(01:55):
having that, it felt impossibletruly to even go forward with
Thanksgiving without him.
And so I think, instinctively,I was thinking that if we could
do something different, if wecould go somewhere else, which
we did we went to another familymember's house, but it was
(02:18):
really hard to just not wake upand have him in the house just
on Thanksgiving morning and whenthe parade is on, and normally
he would come through and tasteeverything and just, you know,
he just had such a presence and,um, just not to have him and to
know that we would go throughthat day without him.
Right, cause your house is kindof the landing zone for the kids
(02:39):
and the grandkids and thatwould be the natural place where
Thanksgiving would be, but thatwasn't that.
(03:00):
You're holding kind of thisfeeling of can we just ignore
this and just get through ourday?
Alongside that, you have otherkids, and so I had another, you
know teen in the house where I'mlike I don't want.
I want to honor what she needsto.
What does she need today forher Thanksgiving and all the
traditions that we have, and sobeing aware of that too, it's
(03:23):
interesting you say that can itjust pass by?
Speaker 4 (03:25):
It's like can it just be Saturday.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Right.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
Right when you go to bed Wednesday, can it just be
Saturday?
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Exactly.
You know, can we just skip overthis this year and not have to
feel that and that's not?
That's just not possible.
So somehow you kind of just getthrough it.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
Well, and we talk about the idea that you have to
go through grief.
Kind of just get through it.
Well, and we talk about theidea that you have to go through
grief.
You can't go around it.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
And this is a part of that.
Even with the holiday thatyou've got to go through, these
days, you have to go throughthem and find ways to remember
them, and I remember that wejust mentioned him in our prayer
that we just mentioned him inour prayer.
You know we did a little toastand we just we kept him in mind
throughout the day and everybodyknew that.
(04:12):
You know we were all sad.
It was just like his absencewas on everybody's shoulders
that day and it was palpable.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
And there's things that everybody remembers a
little different of what it waslike with Carter in the house on
Thanksgiving, whether he'swalking through grabbing food
that he's not supposed to.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
That's for the guests that are coming over the other
family and sticking his fingerin this or that.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
Yeah, right, but that everybody has those different
feelings of of what they'remissing in those days.
You know in that that thatholiday.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Yeah, and you have that awareness of what everybody
needs and how hard it is andthere's.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
Can I ask you this was there, or has there been
kind of a domino emotion whereone person says something and
it's kind of just takes you backbecause you didn't even see it
through that lens and thenhere's a whole wave of emotion
that you didn't know was there.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Yeah, I can think of times when and I think that what
you're speaking about is sosuch a hallmark of grief,
because everyone is at differentplaces at different times and,
I think, giving each other thatgrace to be wherever you are.
But sometimes, sometimes it'sjust more like highly reactive,
(05:24):
where someone's just upset andmad or, and so the tension is a
little higher than usual andsomething that may not have been
a big deal before feels reallyhuge and being able to just have
an understanding likeeveryone's hurting today.
You know we're all hurting.
We're not who we used to be.
(05:45):
This is whatever this tensionis about is not about that.
It's about what we're all goingthrough.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
There's a deeper hurt .
Speaker 2 (05:56):
There's a deeper hurt .
Speaker 4 (05:57):
yeah, it doesn't take much to set someone off.
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yeah, it takes a lot of understanding to honor each
person and their grief process,especially during the holidays
and, as you're anticipating andI think when you talked about
Thanksgiving, you're gettingthrough that day, but then it's
like all the Christmascommercials are coming and
(06:20):
you're getting ready for thatand you're thinking about what
is the next day hold.
I know in our family, somethingthat the next day held for us is
that we in our family wecelebrate Christmas cards and a
lot of them, you know, reallyplan it.
So those Christmas cards showup the day after Thanksgiving
(06:49):
and we go get our tree the dayafter Thanksgiving and I
remember thinking, as I started,seeing Christmas stuff out at
stores and everything, likethere is no way I can face all
of my friends and family whohave those intact families and
they'll be sending those cardsthat are just in, you know, with
(07:11):
all their smiling faces andeveryone's there.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
Or even needing to do a Christmas card and you send
it out, right?
Because how in the world?
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Yeah, we've never sent another Christmas card out
and that was part of our familytradition.
But I can't even think ofsending a Christmas card out
without Carter.
That's not even an option forme.
And so to end but then toreceive those, so I was
expressing that beforeThanksgiving to a good friend
(07:41):
and I said I just I think I'llhave to burn any Christmas card
that comes into our mailbox yeah.
And so when her showed up shewrote in big black letters burn
mine first.
So I sent her a picture oflighting the envelope.
I could not burn, actually herfamily photos but with the
envelope, um, just like on fireand just you know.
(08:03):
But I just love that um, ourcommunity.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
let me grieve in that way and express that and that I
could just say, like that isgoing to be hard for me, I
didn't even think about theChristmas card thing, and you're
not you and I've never talkedabout that going forward after
Carter's death that you haven'tsent Christmas cards, but not
only receiving them, but it'syou know, in the beginning of
October we always go take theChristmas card picture, Like
that's not a reality anymoreeither, and then you feel the
(08:29):
guilt of not sending them rightfor, for, if that's been a
tradition or things that peopleexpect from you you know those
things that?
there's the guilt with that.
I'm glad you mentioned some ofthose other family things
because after the break insegment two, we're going to talk
about preparing as a family.
But I know it's hard andthere's some of those natural
(08:51):
difficulties that come withholidays and it feels awful busy
.
And so, colleen, there's somuch pressure for the holidays
and then it's like magnifiedwhen we experience a loss or a
death in our family.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Absolutely To echo what Aaron said, having that
sense of dread leading up to theholidays is so real, and so we
just want to give you ourlistener permission right now to
release yourself from anypressures you may be putting
upon yourself to do things asyou used to do them, because it
(09:25):
can't be that way anymore.
It will never be the same.
So, acknowledging the hard andbeing okay with making some
changes or doing thingsdifferently, rethinking it a
little bit, and with any changeyou make this year, you can
always go back and do itdifferently or do it the same
(09:45):
the following year.
Nothing is set in stone.
No change is set in stone, andso really take a moment to
reflect on what you need withthis approaching holiday season
and then reflect on what yourkiddos need and, depending on
their ages, you can get theminvolved in that conversation as
(10:06):
well, which I know we're goingto touch on later.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
I know there's people listening that are saying but
my kids are expecting, my kidsdeserve the magic, yes, the
magic and the awe of Christmas.
But on the other side of theirbrain it's saying I can't, I
can't do it all.
And I, because I've heard thatin groups for years.
(10:33):
I've heard that, right, I wantto do it for my kids, but I just
can't.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Yeah, I think the pressure to make the magic
happen, you know, for parentsit's it's really tough and when
you're feeling so sad and youjust don't even feel like you
can do it.
And I remember times where Iwould be watching like a
Christmas movie with my daughterand I would have to just go
into the other room and cry fora little while.
(11:00):
You don't want to even have todo the work of it all.
It's so daunting to have thesadness on you, to know it just.
Everything feels like such aheavy lift.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
It's not like it used to be, when it did feel light
and more joyful and, um, youknow, and maybe it did have that
natural magic and now it's justgone because there's a pressure
to have before the death,there's the pressure to have
everything prepared and food andall those things, and now
(11:33):
there's such an emotional gap,hurt, chasm, whatever word we
want to put there, becausesomeone's not there.
That it's.
It's magnified all the more.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Yeah, it's like loud, it's like that's just, it's
like someone is always like.
Speaker 4 (11:52):
It's palpable.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Yeah, it is, and it's just there's a vibration in the
room I was just going to say,can you, can you talk to the?
Speaker 4 (11:59):
the reality of you feel it in the room Like even
though you're with your family.
You feel that tenseness.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Yeah, you feel it's just a heaviness, and I know
we've talked before about howgrief has a natural heaviness of
lethargy.
It like pulls you down, and soyou know everyone is feeling
that in the same way and youalso notice it when someone's
not grieving and they'reentering the space because they
have something that's very youknow.
(12:30):
It's such a big contrast towhat you're feeling.
So when you are out and aboutand you're hearing the music and
the stores and all of that, Iknew even at Jessica's house we
kind of want this to be aneutral zone.
We don't like over decorate forthe holidays and just being
able to honor families that theymay need a break from that.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
Yeah, yeah, it's a balance for us that there's
families that do want to seethat and try and stay in a bit
of rhythm in that, and there'ssome that, yeah, don't want to
see it too, and it's a balance.
You said something about thosethat aren't grieving, and when
you see that in the family isI'm going to put you on the spot
Is that an irritation to people?
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Which part.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
When you know that that person's kind of coming in,
skipping in to another tune,that they're not dealing with it
, that maybe they're giving thevibe that it's everything's
going to be okay, they'rewhistling, whistling Dixie, as
they come in the house and kindof gliding in and gliding out
when everyone else is, there'sthat tense and the heaviness
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Yeah, and I think that speaks to how people do it
so differently.
And it may be that some peopleare able to kind of delay their
grief in some way or put it likeon a shelf for a minute and
they want to do the holidaysdifferently by engaging the way
they did before, and they mayjust see grief differently and
(13:55):
be feeling it differently.
But I think, for those who arereally feeling it all acutely,
that it can be irritating.
And it kind of really takes meback to some of our families,
and one of even our familyguidelines that we have in
groups is that you may hearpeople laughing and we just want
to acknowledge that that'sannoying and so you know.
(14:18):
And also grief Sometimes youhave, like where you're laughing
, even during a holidaygathering, is something funny
that the person said, or your,you know, have those little
moments.
So not that you never laugh, butI think if someone is bringing
in a lot of levity that it canbe annoying.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
Distracting.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
To add to this conversation.
I was struck by what you saidearlier, aaron, about how
everybody's hurting.
You know there can be peoplethat are just quick to that
tension or that anchor.
What if your family gatheringspreviously weren't always super
enjoyable?
Sometimes it's a really it's abig pot with a lot of
(15:03):
personalities, and sometimesholidays are just hard before
the death.
And so really, if that is yoursituation, do you need to really
think about if that's the bestplace for you this year?
Speaker 4 (15:18):
They're already tense .
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Yeah, yeah, and that's the kind of what you
talked about earlier, colleen.
It's just that planning andreally sitting down with your
family and, especially as we'respeaking to parents today, being
able to sit down with yourchildren and your family and
just saying, like, what do weneed for the holidays?
You know, it's just one day in,or maybe two or three, but just
(15:42):
being able to say, like, whatdo we need?
And is it that you minimize,you know, the decor this year?
It that you minimize, you knowthe decor this year?
And is it that you, you decidethat you're not going to buy
gifts, like you always did?
And or, like you said, you maypivot for that huge family
gathering?
And we've heard stories offamilies who say, hey, we're
(16:03):
going to just stay here in ourlittle family, cause that's all
we can do this year, but we wantto do a video call with the big
family and just, you know, dosomething like that.
Or maybe they just pop in justfor a brunch and then they go
back for the rest of the day andgo back home, and so it's so
different for everyone, butmaking a plan and, like you said
earlier, just making makingsure it's flexible and knowing
(16:27):
you can change it at any time.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
And at the top of that plan, put yourself first
and just make sure that you'rereally building in time for rest
for yourself, for your familynights at home, turning off your
phone for a few hours, having afamily movie night and then
just taking care of yourselvesphysically, getting out for
(16:50):
walks If you like, yoga ormeditation practices like that.
Speaker 4 (16:55):
Yeah I would say don't plan back to back nights.
You know there's those we thinkwe can.
But then we're exhausted afterthat first first event and you
should be like, cause it justtakes so much more during the
holidays?
I had a mom in group one timesay to say that she told her
whole family, you know she washosting Thanksgiving or
Christmas, I don't remember theexact holiday, but she was
(17:16):
hosting the whole holiday andshe had just said, if I go to my
room I'm fine, but I just needsome space because I miss my son
.
And so she had that and leteverybody know that I'm going to
be okay.
I just might need some timealone and to cry and I'll be
okay.
You can come check on me, I'mgoing to be okay.
But I thought that was veryclever.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
I like that, brad, and I think what you're talking
about is that she was listeningto her body and I know we've
talked a lot about how grief isenergy in your body and so where
we don't want to get into asituation where we feel like we
need to cry and that's buildingup in us and we have to just
shove it down, it's just likeletting that be.
(18:00):
Whatever it is that you need todo at that moment, and if you
need to cry and I'm thinkingabout even the anxiety and grief
and how that can also come in.
For people during the holidays,it's already a time that's very
stressful and so sometimes it'sso simple.
We talk sometimes in groupabout humming and even whistling
(18:23):
and how just that can lead tosome breath work that can just
naturally calm your body, somebreath work that can just
naturally calm your body, and soit could be something so simple
as going into another room andjust humming or just a really
long exhale and just being ableto calm your body, just maybe
swaying side to side and helpingconnect your brain a little bit
(18:46):
during a stressful time, ifthings feel very overwhelming
wherever you are a little bitduring a stressful time, if
things feel very overwhelmingwherever you are, but knowing
that your body is a resource,especially during the holidays,
to learn ways that you canintegrate when you're really
stressed and resource yourself.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
And planning for those breaks, Planning
absolutely Ahead of time.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
So, Colleen, there's other things that we we can do
to prepare you, know our body,for some of the motion that that
can just pop up in the.
So you're getting to knowyourself again, and it's going
to be an evolving process, butfor right now, what does that
look like?
What are those needs?
And so this is the time tolearn that.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
Yeah, and we're going to take a little bit of a break
, but when we come back we'regoing to talk about how do we
make a plan as a family, how dowe involve our kids in that.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
And then what does that look like for us as a whole
family?
Jessica's House is a children'sbereavement center located in
California's Central Valleysince 2012.
Jessica's House provides freepeer support for children, teens
, young adults and theirfamilies grieving a loss.
If you need grief-relatedsupport, please visit
jessicashouseorg to download ourfree resources and be sure to
follow Jessica's House on socialmedia.
(20:17):
And if you have any questionsor topics you'd like us to
explore in a future episode,just send us an email at info at
jessicashouseorg.
Speaker 4 (20:28):
Well, welcome back.
And, as we were talking about afew minutes ago, Colleen Aaron
mentioned the idea that so manyparents are listening to this
with kiddos and they're goinginto the holidays.
How might they make a plan tomake it through?
But how do you even start theconversation with your kiddos
about this idea and theheaviness that's going to be
(20:49):
there and the extra emotion?
Speaker 3 (20:52):
Being real about everything you just said.
Yeah, it all depends on the ageof your child and the depth of
which you can bring them intodecisions.
But just being real about it, Iwonder what you're wondering.
This is going to be hard thisyear.
It's so different.
And just seeing what theirthoughts are first, it's nice to
(21:14):
hear from the kids first theycan really give you some
direction and guidance as towhat's going on in their hearts
or mind.
Asking them what's important toyou, what do you need this
Thanksgiving or this Christmas?
What do you want to keep doing?
Is there anything that doesn'tfeel good, that you don't want
to do?
Speaker 2 (21:34):
I'm just wondering too about asking about their
worries, like, what are youworried about when you think
about the holidays, what areyour worries?
And then being able to addressthem and making a plan around
their worries, and is thereanything you can do to mitigate
some of those worries and anyany way that you can build in
(21:55):
how to cope if those worrieshappen?
Speaker 4 (21:59):
because so many times I think parents are trying to
guess what their kids reactionsare going to be or what they
need, but we're saying just ask,and great asking comes in the
midst of proximity with yourkids.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Yeah, and they may not have any answers.
Just like you, they're figuringthis out too.
This is all new for them aswell.
So then you can propose somechoices, some options.
Maybe they don't even realize.
I haven't even thought about itthat, or they don't even realize
that you don't have to do thethings you once did.
Maybe that will come as arelief or maybe that will make
(22:37):
them realize how important it isto them to keep those
traditions.
Yeah, just trying to give a lotof choice when you can during a
time where so much has beenstripped away from your family.
Speaker 4 (22:50):
Yeah, because they don't want to maybe go to
grandma's house where we'vealways done Christmas, because
that's dad's side of the familyor mom's side of the family.
Just make it extra hard becausethey're going to be with all
that side of the family.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Absolutely, and just throwing out ideas for them,
(23:34):
no-transcript, and how you wantto honor them and bring them in,
bring your child in, or bringthey could.
You could do that with a mom ora dad if your spouse or partner
died, and so being able to, youknow, just think about like
(23:56):
what could you?
What might you do onThanksgiving?
Do you want to do a toast tothem?
Do you want to go around thetable and, instead of saying
what I'm thankful for, say if Icould say thank you to that
person who died.
this is what I would say to them.
And so what is it that you canincorporate in talking to your
(24:18):
child about?
Like, how does that sound foryou?
Is there anything that you'dlike to say?
Do you want to write somethingand so being able to just bounce
ideas off of them too, aboutwhat they might want?
Speaker 4 (24:29):
And there's so many of those writing prompts or
those conversation starters too,to be able to have those.
What I miss, you know what?
What I would love to do again,like you're saying, all those
things of of being able to havethose conversations.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Yeah, I wish I could tell you like, even after
Thanksgiving, you know, beingable to say I would you know, is
what do you wish you could havesaid you know to dad about your
day today.
You know, what do you wish hecould know about that?
And so being able to bring theminto those natural
conversations to keep thatconnection with the person.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
Colleen.
What are some practical thingsthat we could give parents that
are facing that first holiday?
It could even be the secondholiday and they're feeling a
little bit more emotion tied tosecond or third year even but
what are just some of thosepractical things?
I know there's things that wetalk about often in groups, that
that we bring up for familiesthat are here.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
As best you can, having a plan in place.
Again, during a season of somuch lack of control and
uncertainty, a plan can feelreally empowering.
Even if you don't utilize theplan, knowing that it's there
can be a nice safety net.
And so what social invitationdo you not want to say yes to
(25:48):
this year?
Do you want to decline?
Which do you think you want totry?
And if you accept it, having abackup plan, knowing that you
may need to decline the day ofyou could prep the host with
that we're planning on comingfor now I'll let you know
something changes having twoseparate cars, maybe so that you
(26:08):
can leave if you need to, ifthe other person you're with is
having a good time and wants tostay and, on that note, having a
code word.
Yeah, or if one of the kiddosneeds to leave, right, yes
exactly, and so just having thatplan in place with your kids
and yourself can help you kindof navigate through that
(26:28):
uncertainty, because you mayhave a good time or it may be
really hard and you need to exit.
Speaker 4 (26:34):
I used to work with a gentleman that would joke, but
we honestly did it a differentjob where we'd have plan A and B
, but then we always thoughtthrough C, d and E, like just
what, if, what if?
And so that's, that's a realityand grief Definitely, and you
might have a plan going in, but,boy, it might look different 10
minutes in.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Absolutely, and so it's okay if it doesn't go the
way that you planned, just beingreally flexible with yourself.
Speaker 4 (27:02):
And it's probably not going to go the way you planned
.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
Right yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Good point.
Something we've heard in groupsis I know parents will say I
want to always have my own carwhen we go somewhere, and so
being able to say, like I'mgoing to stop in, I may not be
able to stay very long and letthe host know that you'd love to
maybe try to accept theinvitation, but if you have your
(27:29):
own car, sometimes it can helpto just feel like you can leave
when you need to.
And so the other pieces that Ithink we're talking about is
just even during the holidays,maybe you need to just get
takeout if you can and not tryto create some of those foods
(27:51):
that maybe you aren't always had, and so just giving yourself a
lot of gentleness during thisseason of not making the magic
happen and just taking thepressure off as much as possible
.
Speaker 4 (28:07):
I had a counselor friend.
I'm going to put both of you onthe spot on this, because with
kiddos this applies, but alsowith with the parents as much as
possible.
There's so much that we don'tknow how we're going to feel
(28:27):
until we get there or we seewho's there, that there's just
that reality of I'm going to beanxious walking in and there's a
good chance I'll be moreanxious too when I get there
yeah, and you don't know untilyou get there.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
I can remember a gathering I had at a friend's
house after tyler died andeveryone was just celebrating
really and just they weretogether and having a really
good time and I just didn't feelthat inside of me it didn't
feel possible.
And I remember just goingoutside and it was like cold and
I just well, I wasn't outside,it was in their garage and I
(29:03):
remember just stepping intotheir garage and just sitting on
the step and just crying, youknow, and just seeing.
I feel so different thaneveryone else does in this
moment and I can't muster upthat celebratory feeling and I
just need to be where I am andjust take a second.
And you know, I knew youmentioned crying earlier.
It's such a relief and it'slike almost like it helps you
(29:26):
and we know the benefit ofcrying and how much it regulates
your nervous system and howmuch better you really do feel
after you cry, justphysiologically.
And so being able to do thatwhen you need to is so huge and
you don't know how you'll feel.
But I think what we're talkingabout is that you're planning
(29:46):
the best you can, is that you'replanning the best you can, and
so, and that ambiguity for kidsbeing able to look at all the
possibilities and try to planfor it, and if it doesn't work
out, how will we get through it?
Speaker 1 (29:59):
If it doesn't work out.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
you know we're going to be together.
We can be open and talk aboutit, be honest and make the
changes that are needed.
Speaker 4 (30:08):
Yeah, yeah, like in sports, where you call that
audible.
Right, you change when you getthere a little bit, but do have
a plan going in.
But know that that there mightneed to be some edits as you, as
you get there.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
What do you guys think of that slogan?
Fake it till you make it.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
No, absolutely no.
This is my baseline response.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
No, absolutely no, this is my baseline response
yeah, because we have topractice listening to our bodies
and being honest and authenticin the room.
I think that's the only waywe're healing in grief and being
(30:49):
able to show how we really feelwith everyone, and I don't
think there's any way aroundthat.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
What if there's a moment where you do just have to
get through it?
Speaker 2 (31:00):
I think we all do that right and I think that's
okay If you're having toespecially I'm thinking about
work settings, professionalsettings and sometimes you just
have to take a breath and getthrough a meeting or something
like that.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
I'm thinking, while there will be times where that's
necessary, being true toyourself and attending to
yourself later when you can, anddipping back into that space
and going there any chance thatyou are able to.
And so that came up when youtalked about going into the
garage Like you, just youcouldn't fake it and you went
(31:36):
and you just sat and you were inyour grief and you were there
with it.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Yeah, and I think having a person that you can be
honest with to say, oh man, itprobably looked like I was okay,
but I'm not really feeling thatokay right now, and just being
able to somehow express that tosomebody when you have to go
against your natural feeling ofhow you are really inside of you
(32:03):
walking in the world, and evenif you have to put on that front
because it might not be safe inthe moment to put your real
self out there, If you have thatconversation with that friend
of here's where I'm at I justgot to leave tonight Like,
instead of the faking it, that'sthe invitation for them to
(32:26):
check on you the next day or acouple of days later, rather
than you saying you faking itand them thinking you're doing
just fine.
Yeah, and how much energy doesit take to fake something?
And also it sends a confusingmessage to others, exactly
Because people know when you'renot okay.
Speaker 4 (32:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Like you don't even need.
I mean you know it's hard, butit's just like, not okay.
Yeah, like you don't even need.
I mean you know it's hard, butit's just like.
And also that every well, Iwant to say most people want to
understand more about yourexperience and they want you to
be honest and even if you andthat's where saying like I just
can't be here right now and mostof the time what we've heard
from families, as when I finallysaid that people were like of
(33:09):
course you can't, like it's okay, yeah, I get it, you need to
leave, yeah, and then, that theycare about you and they're
gonna check in on you yeah, andsometimes we put more pressure
on ourselves to keep that.
Whatever it was.
However, we were functioningbefore.
We're keeping that bar forourselves when nobody expects
that out of us.
We're keeping that bar forourselves when nobody expects
(33:32):
that out of us, but we'reexpecting it out of ourselves.
Speaker 4 (33:35):
And I think most people would choose authenticity
than fake facade.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Absolutely, it just takes all.
When you talked about ambiguitycreating, I mean that for sure
creates more ambiguity, whichmakes more everyone anxious.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
Yeah, adds way more to yourself too.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (33:57):
In faking it.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
And, as we've said before, you are modeling
mourning for your children.
Speaker 4 (34:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
And so being authentic gives them permission
to do the same and not have tofake it till they make it Wow.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
That's in.
There's so much freedom in thatright.
There's so much healing.
When you can't, when your kidsare watching, you just show up
as your real self and you're notsay oh, like so happy, and then
you're closing the door to thecar and you know, yeah, where
they can let in your teachingthem and modeling, like you said
(34:31):
, how you know that we're in aperiod of mourning and we've
said this before this is notgoing to last forever.
But these early days of grief,be where you are, especially
during the holidays.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
And you're modeling that you can let yourself out
for a few minutes of steppingout of that party or needing to
leave, that it's okay.
Modeling that for your children, that they can do that as well
when needed.
Hey, a few minutes ago, erin,you talked about a toast, but
there's a number of differentways that we can remember those
that have died, while we alsohonor our grief.
(35:06):
Would you mind sharing a coupleof those different ways with us
?
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Yeah, well, I think we learn so much from our
families here at Jessica's house, and some of the ideas we've
learned and heard over the yearsis some people like to select
an ornament in memory.
Sometimes it's like they havelike a theme that reminded them
of that person and so they aredoing that.
(35:29):
I've heard of ornamentexchanges in families where each
person brings an ornament andthey open them even at
Thanksgiving where they can hangthem on their tree and each
person gets to take home anornament that reminds them of
the person.
Sometimes it's just that youwant to visit the grave more
often or a scattering site alittle more often during that
(35:52):
season, maybe making theirfavorite food during the season
or just being intentional aboutjust sharing those memories of
them around the table.
And some people even do alittle bit more of a place in
their home where they might havecandles and photos of the
person and then they may havesome, um, just holiday kinds of
(36:15):
decor, but they incorporate theperson, um that, their loved one
, around that and and just makethis time a little bit more of a
time of remembrance.
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (36:27):
Well, colleen and Aaron, thank you so much for
talking about the changingseasons and the holiday that's
right around the corner, and forthose of you listening, don't
forget to reach out to ourwebsite at jessicashouseorg for
more resources, or you can alsolook in the show notes below in
this podcast.
Make sure you join us next timeas we do another episode of
when Grief Comes Home, and we'llbe discussing additional ways
(36:48):
to honor your person's memoryduring the holiday season.
Until then, we wish you well.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Jessica's House is a children's bereavement center
located in California's CentralValley since 2012.
We provide free peer supportfor children, teens, young
adults and their familiesgrieving a loss.
If you need grief-relatedsupport, please visit
jessicashouseorg to download ourfree resources and be sure to
(37:16):
follow Jessica's House on socialmedia, and if you have any
questions or topics you'd likefor us to explore in future
episodes, just send us an emailto jessicashouseorg.
Thank you for joining us andwe'll see you next time, for
when Grief Comes Home.
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