November 4, 2024 • 40 mins
Welcome to the When Grief Comes Home podcast. We're glad you're here. This podcast supports parents who are grieving a spouse, partner, or child while helping their children who are living through the loss of a parent or sibling. With personal grief stories and professional guidance, we offer parents practical tips for supporting their child who is grieving while caring for their own grief.
This episode explores funerals, the grieving process, and how to allow space for mourning during the funeral planning process. By honoring the unique needs of grievers, we look for meaningful ways to remember your loved one.
This episode shares practical tips and activities for involving children in funerals. We discuss how to prepare your child for what they will see and hear at a funeral and how to help children acknowledge the finality of death. Discover how comfort items, quiet spaces, and personalized elements can provide solace and honor your loved one's unique attributes.
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For more information on Jessica’s House or for additional resources, please go to jessicashouse.org
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Gary Shriver (00:00):
Hello and welcome to when Grief Comes Home, a
podcast dedicated to parentsliving through loss while
supporting their child.
Let's meet the team.
Erin Nelson (00:11):
I'm Erin Nelson, founding executive director at.
Colleen Montague (00:13):
Jessica's House.
Hi, I'm Colleen Montague,program director for Jessica's
House and a licensed marriageand family therapist.
Brad Quillen (00:21):
Hi, I'm Brad Quillen and I'm the host of when
Grief Comes Home.
Gary Shriver (00:25):
Now through this podcast, they'll share grief
resources and coping skills,heartfelt stories and insights
to support parents as they raisechildren who are grieving
Together.
You'll find strength as welearn to live with loss and find
ways to heal.
Brad Quillen (00:47):
Hello, hello, it's Brad from Jessica's House, and
today we're going to take a fewminutes and talk about
ceremonies and funerals.
Aaron, over the years, you andI have done quite a few funerals
and viewings and ceremoniesafter a death.
A number of those were when Iwas a pastor for years and years
and we did the ministrytogether and we have a lot of
stories and a lot of thoughtsand learned a lot in those
(01:09):
seasons.
One of the things that I wantto just acknowledge from the
very beginning is it isextremely hard to put together a
service.
Erin Nelson (01:19):
It's so hard.
You know you never are preparedto have to plan something for
someone who died that was soimportant to you and to be faced
with the task of honoring theirlife, their whole life, in a
(01:39):
period of time, sometimes just acouple of hours.
It's so overwhelming justsitting down with families, as
you and I did.
So much we would come togetherand so much of the time we would
just start with a brainstorm toreally know them the best that
we could.
Sometimes we had never even metthem before, right right.
(02:00):
And it was such an honor to beintroduced to them for the first
time, and so we got to justfind out about their attributes
and their personality.
And then how could we help themcreate a ceremony that would
feel personal to them, thatwould honor just the essence of
(02:24):
the person that they loved somuch?
And so I remember just sittingaround the table and just
talking to them about that andfinding out what was important
to them.
Brad Quillen (02:35):
And it's slow work Because, for those that we
didn't know, we would have to beintroduced to them through
pictures and stories to get afeel of who they were and who
they are and to be able to comealongside and help put together
a service that that wasmemorable and told as much of
them as we could.
And, like you said, it's an hour, hour and a half, two hours,
(02:59):
you know, reception, maybe allthe things.
It could be longer, but it surefeels like a lot of pressure to
put all that together and shareeverything that you want people
to know about your person inthat short of a time.
Erin Nelson (03:14):
Definitely it's slow work that has a fixed
deadline.
That makes it so hard because itneeds that time.
And I know when we have beenwith families we try to say like
there's no hurry, so you don'thave to feel like you have to do
it within a week or two weeks,like just give it a second to
(03:38):
gather the pictures, to geteverybody in town that you want
to be there to do whatever it is.
And also, most importantly, howcan you take care of yourself
during this time?
Because sitting in that griefprocess and the disorientation
(03:58):
of not having them in your life,not having their physical
presence in their in your life,and then also it's like we've
talked, colleen and I I know,colleen, you and I have talked
about just like it's likeplanning a kind of a wedding
right, all the elements right,you have to get flowers, music,
(04:19):
you are gathering peopletogether, you're talking about
meals and where you'll be and avenue and all of that, and
you're it's like you're planningthat in a week or two and
that's a lot of pressure, likeyou said, brad and and
emotionally and mentally likewe're all over the place because
(04:40):
of what's happened and youcan't sit in that, and that's
all that you need to do.
Brad Quillen (04:46):
Because you got to get it done.
Erin Nelson (04:47):
You have to get it done.
Brad Quillen (04:48):
Because the videos do and the music lineups are
due and the speakers need theirnotes and like, yeah, it's so,
so tough.
Erin Nelson (04:57):
It's tough to have that tradition culturally.
I know I'm sure our listenerswill have all different cultures
that are maybe a lot betterthan this.
I would say I don't know ifbetter is the right word, but to
say that when you can give timeto it, it's such a gift to, I
(05:18):
guess.
Brad Quillen (05:19):
Just give it what it needs, yeah, what it deserves
needs what it deserves, and oneof the things that that you and
I talk about and we talk abouthere in the office from time to
time, is that reality of we'rein a culture that is moving away
from funerals, and can you justtake a minute and we believe
that it's so important to have afuneral and share a bit about
(05:41):
why, what are some of thosereasons?
And, again, these are thingswe've learned over the years,
but even the best practices inthe grief world are explaining
the whys in some way.
Erin Nelson (05:54):
You know I think you're right, Brad We've heard
that as a trend and I think ofdoing this work for the past 20
years and learning from otherpeople and families, work for
the past 20 years and learningfrom other people and families
the ritual of coming together toacknowledge this big change in
your life that you don't like wesaid, like you don't have that
(06:14):
physical presence anymore andeverybody needs to acknowledge
that with you, that your lifehas changed so dramatically.
So to come together and towitness that together, to hold
that together, to be welcomed byhugs and comfort and people
that really want to be there foryou.
You have this window of timewhere the death of your loved
(06:35):
one is on the top of mind ofeveryone.
So when you somehow push thataway and are not, you know you
don't create an opportunity tocome together.
Not that you can't ever do thatagain, but it is a window of
time that it is on everyone'smind and they just naturally
(06:55):
want to come around you.
And so, having that time tonotice that someone goes from a
wife to a widow, Right, Right.
Or you go from a family of fourto a family of three because
one child died, and everybodygets to do that with you.
So the next time you seesomeone at the grocery store or
(07:20):
around town on a walk, you'vealready acknowledged that change
in your family together andyou've had some kind of touch in
and I think that just helps youintegrate and like move forward
together in your community.
Brad Quillen (07:34):
There's never the time, like the couple of weeks
after, to gather with thatamount of support and those
touch in and those keystonemoments that we'll have, with
that amount of support and thosetouch-in and those keystone
moments that we'll have, and weneed to come together because
it'll never be the same again,because they're no longer here,
they've died.
Erin Nelson (07:52):
It'll never be the same again.
And those rituals, if you thinkabout the changes in our lives,
like maybe a retirement partyor your child goes from being
eight to being nine and you havea birthday party and you all
come together and you blow outthe candles and you notice
together and you recognize thatyou just moved from one age to
(08:13):
the other, you just transitionedfrom being in college to being
a college graduate.
Brad Quillen (08:20):
Single to married.
Single to married Single tomarried.
Erin Nelson (08:23):
Single to married.
Those are ceremonies andrituals that are built in to, I
think, the fiber of us toacknowledge that into.
We don't want to skip that indeath.
Brad Quillen (08:34):
Correct, hey, erin .
Just a couple moments ago wewere talking about different
changes in one's life thewedding, the going from single
to married, the retirement piecethese are all joyous occasions
but, if we're honest, funeralsaren't joyous Right.
Sometimes we think we got to goto a funeral and be happy and
(08:54):
celebrate, but they're sad.
They're sad, they're upset.
Erin Nelson (08:59):
Absolutely, and we've talked before, brad, about
our approach at Jessica's houseand that's always to reflect
and mirror the griever.
You know the person who's hadthe loss and with honor for them
, what do they need?
And sometimes people will moveinto the celebration of life and
(09:21):
you know, or even if you know,their beliefs are that they're
in heaven, like let's celebratethat they're in heaven.
But you know we talk about herethat you know there's no way
around grief, right, you have toto get on to.
You have to go through thatdarkness and that true mourning
(09:44):
and not moving too fast tocelebration.
We are grieving that they're nolonger physically in our life.
We miss them, we yearn for them, we long for them.
Let the sadness and themourning be part of remembering
that person.
We don't have to just likewe're celebrating them we're.
Brad Quillen (10:05):
Yeah, you and I attended a funeral years ago and
I remember the first things.
We walked out we looked at eachother and said, oh, Nobody said
the word sad.
And I can't tell you how manytimes I've sat with families and
you and I've sat with familiesand planning services that they
didn't plan for this.
This was unexpected.
This was too soon.
We were supposed to grow oldtogether, right?
Erin Nelson (10:27):
Yeah, it doesn't matter how long you have someone
right, you'd still like to havethem Exactly Another 25 years.
Brad Quillen (10:34):
I don't want this day.
Erin Nelson (10:34):
We didn't want this day.
We didn't want this day,acknowledging that together and
not moving so quickly to thecelebration or the afterlife,
whatever that might be, becausewe want them with us we want
them next to us.
Brad Quillen (10:51):
Yeah, in some ceremonies and services we
didn't get a chance to dosomething or it wasn't what we
needed.
Colleen, how would you answerthat?
If someone is kind of wrestlingwith that, even after, or it's
been months or a year or two,what would you say to them that
are listening?
Colleen Montague (11:11):
Having the permission that, if it didn't
quite go the way you hoped, ordidn't feel right afterwards
because, like you both said,you're planning this event under
a lot of stress, how could itever be what you want it to be?
So giving yourself thepermission to do a little redo
if you need?
I'm thinking of a family wholost their son who was a young
(11:47):
adult and they had a verytraditional service for him,
very honoring to the family andtheir beliefs.
But for this man's brother itdidn't quite hit in the same way
that he needed it to quite hitin the same way that he needed
it to.
And so on his brother's firstbirthday after he died, he
hosted a small little gatheringwith all of his friends for his
birthday and they just gatheredaround the table and shared
(12:08):
stories of him and that felt alittle bit more true to his
brother who had died, and whathe maybe would have wanted.
Brad Quillen (12:18):
And to who he was from his brother's perspective,
right.
Colleen Montague (12:22):
Everybody in a family is going to need
something different.
Brad Quillen (12:25):
So hearing that, erin, I have a question.
I'm imagining there's folksthat think and have had the
thought we forgot to do this orshare about this at the service.
And what would you say to thosefolks that have that thought or
have come across somethingweeks, months or even years down
the road that they totallyforgot to share about their
person at their ceremony?
Erin Nelson (12:46):
There's so much that we want to share when we
are remembering that person,with that ceremony and at a
funeral, and we can't we don'thave the time to share
everything right, or there maybe some parts of their life that
we think later, oh, I wish Icould have said that or I wish
that could have been shared.
(13:07):
And I think, just on a personallevel, something that I would,
as I talked with someone who washelping me with Carter's
funeral.
There was so much I wanted tosay and she kind of reminded me
there will be opportunities,like on special days and
holidays and times that you cancome together, even putting out
(13:29):
a photo on social media andsharing a little memory, and
that was something that Ipracticed and actually really
helped me.
And that is a community kind ofjust like a funeral.
You're putting it out to yourcommunity and that was helpful,
just to hear someone celebratethat he sang this song or that.
(13:51):
You know he did this funnything when he was younger and
whatever it was.
It was like I always want toshare that and put it out there
and it just gave me anopportunity to keep remembering
him.
Brad Quillen (14:03):
And you made me think of even months down the
road or every year on a certaindate where people can join you
in lighting a candle or readingsomething maybe they wrote or
sharing a picture, and it's upin someone's home or a number of
people's homes with you for theday right Just to remember that
person that there's alwaysfuture things that you can do as
(14:24):
well.
Erin Nelson (14:25):
To remember them, to hear their stories, and it's
always so fun to get a picturethat I never have seen before or
hear a story that I have neverheard before, and that happens
quite often where people willjust stop me and share something
, and it means so much.
Brad Quillen (14:40):
Yeah, yeah, colleen, can you give us some
ideas on how we can share theideas of funerals and wakes and
viewings with kiddos?
What are some of those thingsthat we can do to break down
that conversation a bit?
Colleen Montague (14:55):
A lot of it comes down to letting them know
what to expect, trying to createa visual image, even literally
taking photos of the funeralhome.
You'll be attending, explainingwhat the service is going to
look like, starting thoseconversations about the body and
what's going to happen to it.
Anyway, you can prep the kiddosahead of time for what they're
(15:17):
about to experience, becausethis may be the first time
they've ever experiencedanything like this.
Even just vocabulary words youdon't normally use, like a
hearse, an urn, a columbariumall these words they may hear or
things they may see in the nextfew days that are very new.
Brad Quillen (15:38):
And Erin, there's a quote by Dr Alan Woolfelt that
we share with families a lotand I just wanted to ask if you
take a few minutes to share thatand the idea of how we help
kids say hello.
Erin Nelson (15:50):
That's something I love.
When Dr Woolfelt talks aboutsaying hello on the pathway to
goodbye, it's such a profoundidea Acknowledging that this
person that was so vibrant andso alive in your world is no
longer that person.
So saying hello to this newpart of them by witnessing their
(16:15):
body not being alive, yeah, andsaying hello to this new way of
their being, where they're notbreathing right and we, as we
talk to children like they don'tfeel pain, they're not
breathing, they're not alive,the heart's not beating right,
so we need to be able to view asmuch as we can, if we if's
(16:37):
possible, be able to be with thebody in this new state, to say
hello to this new reality as webegin to say goodbye to them.
Brad Quillen (16:49):
And I just am going to acknowledge that this
is hard for some people.
This is scary for some people.
This is hard for some people.
This is scary for some people.
You've told me that you wereeven nervous to see Tyler's body
your first husband that died ina plane crash, that first time
at the viewing.
Like you were nervous, right.
Erin Nelson (17:04):
I was nervous and you were 20 something years old.
Absolutely, and I actuallydidn't see his body.
His brother did see his body,did see his body and I was too
nervous because I knew he hadbeen in a plane crash and I
wasn't sure like what it wouldbe like.
Later I learned through Dr AlanWolfelt how he goes to like
(17:26):
plane crashes and mass kind ofcasualty events and how, even
seeing something that's intactlike the bottom of a foot, where
you know, we know someone's thebottom of their feet that's so
intimate and personal forsomebody, so you know that's
them and that is that sayinghello on the pathway to goodbye.
(17:48):
It's hard to talk about this,it's hard to hear about this,
but being with the body itchanges your understanding of
the finality of death.
Yeah, because I didn't seeTyler.
I didn't know all of this atthat time, right, right.
So I expected him to walkthrough the door.
(18:11):
I would hear something thatsounded like the garage door and
I'd be like, oh my gosh, he'shome, tyler's home.
I would hear something thatsounded like the garage door and
I'd be like, oh my gosh, he'shome.
And even the day he wasscheduled to come back from
Alaska, I remember just waitingfor him, just thinking they
could have been wrong, because Ididn't see him and I wish I
could have.
I mean, it's okay, I can't goback to that, but I think when
(18:33):
we have an opportunity to see abody, it's a transformative
experience that we need as partof our grief process, if it's
possible.
Brad Quillen (18:42):
Yeah, I know that it's unsettling.
Erin Nelson (18:45):
It is unsettling.
Brad Quillen (18:47):
We even had someone on our staff say the
other day, as we were kind ofpreparing for this podcast, that
they were in their latetwenties and they were even
nervous about going to a viewingand seeing.
You know the body.
Erin Nelson (18:57):
Understandably, absolutely.
Brad Quillen (19:01):
So, aaron, the other question, as I hear you
say that people ask me, and thishas happened in my personal
life my brother called me anumber of years back and said
hey, how old you know is is oldenough to go to a funeral, you
know cause there was a death onhis wife's side of the family
and their little guy was five, Ithink, at the time.
And he said what age?
(19:22):
And?
And our answer, colleen, tofamilies when we hear that is is
what?
What do we say when, when weget that question?
Colleen Montague (19:29):
Let them decide.
Yeah, ask them what they wantto do, consider maybe taking a
picture even of the body first,to show them that way if they
want, as they try to decide, ifthey want to see it in person.
Brad Quillen (19:43):
But let the kids decide and take their lead with
what they're feeling comfortablewith and all of that, and when
we come back from the break, wewant to take a few minutes and
talk about how do we involvekids in funerals and what is
their role and how can they helpdesign and put together the
funeral or the memorial.
Gary Shriver (20:04):
Jessica's House is a children's bereavement center
located in California's CentralValley since 2012.
Jessica's House provides freepeer support for children, teens
, young adults and theirfamilies grieving a loss.
If you need grief-relatedsupport, please visit
jessicashouseorg to download ourfree resources and be sure to
(20:26):
follow Jessica's House on socialmedia.
And if you have any questionsor topics you'd like us to
explore in a future episode,just send us an email at info at
jessicashouseorg.
Brad Quillen (20:40):
Welcome back everyone and Colleen, as we said
before we had our break that wewere going to talk about, how
do we involve children in theplanning process of a funeral,
of a memorial, of a service.
What would you say to that?
Colleen Montague (20:52):
A lot of communication.
Have a lot of communicationwith them, starting with what to
expect.
You know what is a funeral.
Why are we holding it?
Will the body be there?
Is the person being buried?
Are they being cremated?
Letting them know what to expectIf the body will be there.
(21:14):
Letting the child know whatthat would look like.
Letting them decide if theywant to see the body, describing
it you won't see the chestrising and falling like you do
when someone's breathing.
The color will look differentand so, prepping them ahead of
time, you could even considertaking a photo of the body,
(21:38):
asking the child if they'd liketo see the photo first.
Can you be with the body beforethe ceremony?
So you're not with all thepeople, but you're with your
people.
Your child can just be with you.
There are other safe peopleexperiencing that moment and
relating it to other experiencesthey may have had with a dead
(21:58):
body maybe a dead pet, a deadfish, a dead bug they've seen,
you know and comparing thatexperience of what that body
looked like I appreciate youtalking about the communication
because kids are going to haveso many questions and
curiosities and wonders.
(22:19):
Yes, and being there for all thequestions, that's also a gift
to you because it gives youinsight into their thought
process.
What they're wondering about,gives you direction with where
to take your conversation.
So, looking at those questionsas a gift for you, as a guide if
it's going to be an urn,explaining what that is, what is
(22:42):
that, where are they?
And so even just givingconcrete language about
cremation and that it's heatinga body to a very high
temperature which istransforming it into powdery
ashes and, most importantly,telling them that a body no
longer feels pain, so thatprocess of burial, that process
(23:04):
of cremation is not hurting thatperson.
They don't feel pain anymore.
Trust your child in thisprocess.
Let them be a part of thatdecision making on how they want
to engage in this process.
Yes, and kiddos have defenses.
For a reason Sometimes they'renot ready for something, and so
(23:26):
what would it look like torespect their defenses if they
just don't want to see the bodyyet, and respecting that?
But maybe you do have a pictureto show them down the road for
a time when they do feel readyto see what that is.
So they don't miss thatopportunity like you did, aaron,
with Tyler miss thatopportunity, like you did, Aaron
, with Tyler Aaron.
Brad Quillen (23:47):
what are some of those practical ways that we
might involve kids in a serviceand just some of those tangible
things that you could tellparents or families that are
listening?
Erin Nelson (23:52):
For older kids.
I really like the idea of themwriting a letter describing
their person or maybe writing aletter to them.
It's like we have so manyprompts right, like I wish thank
you for I'll never forget whenI loved, when we Like.
(24:13):
How can you give insight to thepeople that are there about
your relationship?
You know that child'srelationship with that person
and what you would want to sayto them, so letters that could
be read.
I've had, you know, older kids.
Sometimes they'll say I want toread this and always having
(24:33):
somebody with them that can readit for them if needed.
Step in and also there may be,you know, just somebody that
says you know, I'd like to readthis letter on behalf of you
know, for a younger child or achild that doesn't want to.
And even we've had kids I know,when we've worked with kids,
brad that have wanted to putsomething on top of the casket
(24:56):
or in the casket, somethingreally special from them to the
person who died, and they can dothat at the burial, like put
something on top or so, yes,involving them in different ways
of what they would like, tojust how they want to kind of
say their final goodbyes in someways.
Brad Quillen (25:23):
And over the years we've learned, we've gotten
creative.
But for those younger kids thatare coming, what are some of
the things that you would tellfamilies and parents that are
listening on how you can involveyour little ones in there, and
what do they need with them theday of the service?
Erin Nelson (25:35):
Well, what comes to mind is making sure they have
all of their comfort items,right.
So something to drink and eat,snacks, anything that they can
do for fidgeting, but alwayshaving one person per child who
always knows where that child is, that can be with them, someone
very familiar to them.
So making sure they have anadditional caregiver with them.
(25:59):
So, because you know, you asthe parent, are, you know
receiving people and they'represent, we want to make sure
that the child's taken care of.
But those young kids, I thinkwe've I know you and I have
planned big like activity tablesat the service, for if there
was like a gathering after justwatching all the cousins gather
(26:23):
around and do crafts in memoryof the person who died.
Sometimes they'll makebracelets with little beads
where they can remember theperson who died, and just having
something they can wear as alinking object.
Sometimes they write letters,sometimes they just draw, I mean
, a big scribble is really getsenergy out of your body, right,
(26:47):
when you can't maybe run andjump, and so all of that can
just help them express and theycan write their worries down,
you know, or their questions,and so having somebody
facilitate at that table isalways nice too, like maybe it's
just a neighbor or a friend whowould be willing just to sit
with the kids and facilitatesome of those activities as well
(27:09):
.
Brad Quillen (27:09):
And I think one of the things that we think about
as adults is we need a littlebit of a break but kids do too
from the overwhelming amount ofpeople that might be there or
just the emotion.
And that's okay for a kiddo toneed a break and but that person
that's with them and I'm goingto use the word assigned person
that's the caregiver that dayand and with them, but it's okay
(27:30):
for them to need to just bealone and quiet and away from
the whole thing.
Erin Nelson (27:34):
Absolutely Identify a quiet space too.
And where can you, especiallyfor toddlers and babies, where
can you just go just to be in adark, quiet room, just to give a
little break from all thestimulation of the day?
Brad Quillen (27:50):
And when you say their favorite things that can
be stuffed animals, or again,just yeah, the blankies that
come with them, those thingsthat they can take, that into
the service, and that is not abad thing, those are all
appropriate in the moments.
Erin Nelson (28:03):
All of those sensory items that help them
feel safe.
Brad Quillen (28:07):
And one of the things, colleen, I've learned
over the years that idea of thatwe dose like, we ask questions
when we need to, but can youshare a little bit about just
that idea of the person who'sleading the funeral, to even
share a bit about that that thefamily can only take so much or
hear so much today, right?
Colleen Montague (28:28):
Yes, a funeral that we recently attended.
The pastor shared right therein front of everybody.
You know the family is gratefulyou're here.
It's also a lot for them today.
They may not be able to allreceive your condolences from
everybody present, and so hereare some other ideas for you to
(28:52):
connect with them.
And this family had a book thatpeople could write notes in.
They even heard that they haveQR codes now that you can scan
and leave a little writtenmessage on, like a little
dashboard for the family to readlater.
And so all these ideas that youcan implement into the service
(29:12):
so that you're not overwhelmed,in a good way, with all of the
well-wishers that come tosupport you.
Brad Quillen (29:20):
Aaron, what are some of the dosing things that
might come up with kiddos at aservice?
Erin Nelson (29:26):
I think kids just naturally take it just bit by
bit right when we think aboutjust little by little.
They can't well, none of us canreally absorb the loss all at
one time, but kids are so goodat naturally going off and
playing on, just like laughing alittle bit and enjoying a
(29:47):
moment but then coming back totheir caregivers.
So, as you have somebody thatcan be with your child during
the service, knowing that theycan also come back to you as
their caregiver and touch in,and this is a good time to talk
to kids about how we all havedifferent emotions inside of us
(30:08):
after someone dies.
And one of the very firstactivities that we do here at
Jessica's house is called Colorsof my Heart, where kids can
identify all the differentcolors in their hearts, all the
feelings.
It could be sadness, they couldbe scared, they can be confused.
They could also be happysometimes, because their cousins
(30:29):
are with them, or they hadtheir best friend neighbor is
there, or they're lookingforward to their birthday, or
maybe they got a new video gameor something like that.
So knowing that it's okay ifyou're still happy, it's okay if
you're still excited we don'twant kids to feel shame because
they're not crying all the time,right, and so just
(30:51):
acknowledging all the colors ofour hearts and knowing that
there will be times, even asadults, that we laugh at
memories and we have a lot offun, and just knowing that
there's room for all of it.
Brad Quillen (31:06):
Yeah, and sometimes kids will feel guilty
because they're not crying.
Erin Nelson (31:10):
They can feel so guilty and everyone has
different personalities that aremore illuminated after someone
dies and some people are justnot natural criers.
Right and and if one sibling isa natural crier and the other
isn't, the one that isn't canfeel guilty because maybe they
(31:31):
haven't cried yet and it's okay,like it's okay if you don't cry
.
It's okay to cry, it's okay notto cry.
Brad Quillen (31:38):
But they feel even more guilty because they're not
crying at the funeral or theservice, when everybody feels
like everybody else is.
But what's?
Erin Nelson (31:47):
wrong with me?
Right, they can feel that shameand we heard a saying it was
called.
You know, sometimes it's toocold to snow and it's almost
like you're so overwhelmed byeverything that's going on that
you can't even cry.
Just to speak personally, Ididn't cry at my own son's
(32:07):
funeral.
I was so overwhelmed by thepeople and by the experience.
I think I was numb and just somuch trauma involved and I think
back on that and just thinklike I couldn't.
I couldn't access my tears.
My tears really came in private, like when I was alone or in a
very small group, and it was myson who died and I didn't cry at
(32:32):
his funeral and I can't evensay like believe I'm saying
those words, but the truth isI'm not naturally a very highly
emotive person.
But the truth is I'm notnaturally a very highly emotive
person and so it wasunderstandable that that didn't
happen for me.
But just to know that it's okayif you didn't feel that
(32:53):
psychological and sensory levelsafety in that moment to just
let your emotions like, come out.
And I was crying.
Brad Quillen (33:04):
But not in those moments.
I bet there's people listening,thinking this is what I thought
going into the service or tothe funeral, but it was so
different when it actuallyhappened.
Erin Nelson (33:15):
You don't know how you'll feel.
Sometimes you just can't access.
It's almost so deep that youcan't even access that, and it
comes when it comes.
Brad Quillen (33:26):
And we don't control when it comes.
We can't control that.
Erin Nelson (33:29):
We have to follow that wave and let it be.
Brad Quillen (33:34):
You were talking about Carter's funeral, and
that's one of the things we wantto share is you guys did a
great job at personalizing andmaking it feel like him and he
had a big personality he did.
You know it, you know it and socould you share just some of
those ways and some of the ideasyou guys had and more about how
(33:57):
you guys got to those ideas andto make it personal and make it
you know what, as much as youcould in that time to be about
Carter.
Erin Nelson (34:08):
Yeah, you know, I think that while you were there.
So I just remember like justroundtabling even with my family
, you know and remembering him.
You know, with his gusto andhow kind he was to always look
out for someone who needed foodor anything, just a hug.
(34:31):
He was so playful and fun andhe was so witty and charming.
He always had the last word,you know.
And so being able to cometogether and think about reflect
on his attributes and what hemeant to each person, I think,
just being able to pass that toeveryone and for them to reflect
(34:54):
on that as well.
And we had something a littleceremony that we did was just
identifying some obstacles thatyou might have in your life and
just looking forward tosomething in your future.
Knowing carter, you know hislife was cut short but he had
dreams that he never he wasn'table to attain.
(35:15):
And I remember we had a bigbonfire, so it was the fall, and
so people were able, like, kindof like, throw their regrets in
the fire and then hang on to apiece of paper that talked about
their hopes and their dreamsfor their future.
And I've had so many peoplecome to me and tell me how much
that meant to them and how itwas just a time for them to
(35:39):
reflect on their lives andremember Carter.
Time for them to reflect ontheir lives and remember Carter
and take a little bit of himwith um with them and, uh, I'm
grateful that he I got towitness his light and I hope
that some of his gusto livesinside of me and that I can
carry that forward.
Brad Quillen (35:58):
You know we met numerous times in the planning
and every couple of days leadingup, and there was times when we
sat out in the pool area,there's times we were inside,
there was times we were on thedeck of just putting ideas
together and thoughts, and oneof them that sparks to my memory
is your husband, brian, sayingthat you knew when Carter was
(36:20):
coming because his cars wereloud.
Erin Nelson (36:23):
He got a loud car.
I don't think the neighborsappreciated it at all, but yeah,
he was.
Always he loved to work on hiscars he knew what he was coming
he knew, so we did at hisfuneral um.
Somebody brought an old classiccar and revved it and revved it
yeah and so he kind of came outrevving his engine.
(36:43):
I don't know, he just likereally liked to make all the car
sounds even as a toddler, butyeah, it was so appropriate, um,
to have that there but evenflannels you had you?
Brad Quillen (36:55):
had you told people to wear flannels?
Erin Nelson (36:58):
we're gonna have a big bonfire, gather around and
remember Carter, wear yourflannel, and so yeah, and we
still do that.
We like to come together on histhe anniversary of his death
and, if it's not too warm,otherwise, we do it on his
birthday, which is in November.
Brad Quillen (37:17):
It's cold enough.
Erin Nelson (37:18):
In the Central Valley, right, but yeah, so
being able to carry that forwardin a lot of ways.
Brad Quillen (37:25):
And there's things of sports teams or, like you
said, some of those goals anddifferent ways you can tell a
story Pictures are one of thoseand slideshows but also the
things that they worked on orthe sports they played, and I
think of not just work done likeyour son worked on cars, but
there's musical instruments thatpeople work with, or computers
(37:47):
and tech and some of thosedifferent ways to tell about the
person.
Erin Nelson (37:51):
Yeah, just honoring all of their hobbies, their
lifetime accomplishments, whothey were just like.
How can you bring that alive?
Brad Quillen (37:59):
And, sadly, we've done a number of young people's
funerals over the years, but theLetterman jacket was always one
that we saw for years.
Erin Nelson (38:07):
Yeah, yeah, jackets and favorite shirts and just
all of all that animated them.
Hats, hats.
Brad Quillen (38:18):
Some of the guys that there were, you know 30, 40
, 50 hats at their funeralsbecause they just had these
collections of different things.
Erin Nelson (38:26):
Absolutely.
Brad Quillen (38:27):
Well, erin and Colleen, thank you for sharing
today and for those of youlistening, thanks for being with
us, and we hope that if youhave any questions or needs, you
would look at our website atjessicashouseorg, and there's
definitely resources of today'stopic on our website.
You can also reach out to us byemail at info at
jessicashouseorg.
(38:48):
Be sure to join us next timewhen grief comes home, where
we'll be discussing theapproaching holiday season.
Until then, we wish you well.
Gary Shriver (38:59):
Jessica's House is a children's bereavement center
located in California's CentralValley since 2012.
We provide free peer supportfor children, teens, young
adults and their familiesgrieving a loss.
If you need grief-relatedsupport, please visit
jessicashouseorg to download ourfree resources and be sure to
(39:20):
follow Jessica's House on socialmedia.
And if you have any questionsor topics you'd like for us to
explore in future episodes,download our free resources and
be sure to follow Jessica'sHouse on social media.
And if you have any questionsor topics you'd like for us to
explore in future episodes, justsend us an email to
jessicashouseorg.
Thank you for joining us andwe'll see you next time for when
Grief Comes Home.
Hello and welcome to when Grief Comes Home, a
podcast dedicated to parentsliving through loss while
supporting their child.
Let's meet the team.
Erin Nelson (00:11):
I'm Erin Nelson, founding executive director at.
Colleen Montague (00:13):
Jessica's House.
Hi, I'm Colleen Montague,program director for Jessica's
House and a licensed marriageand family therapist.
Brad Quillen (00:21):
Hi, I'm Brad Quillen and I'm the host of when
Grief Comes Home.
Gary Shriver (00:25):
Now through this podcast, they'll share grief
resources and coping skills,heartfelt stories and insights
to support parents as they raisechildren who are grieving
Together.
You'll find strength as welearn to live with loss and find
ways to heal.
Brad Quillen (00:47):
Hello, hello, it's Brad from Jessica's House, and
today we're going to take a fewminutes and talk about
ceremonies and funerals.
Aaron, over the years, you andI have done quite a few funerals
and viewings and ceremoniesafter a death.
A number of those were when Iwas a pastor for years and years
and we did the ministrytogether and we have a lot of
stories and a lot of thoughtsand learned a lot in those
(01:09):
seasons.
One of the things that I wantto just acknowledge from the
very beginning is it isextremely hard to put together a
service.
Erin Nelson (01:19):
It's so hard.
You know you never are preparedto have to plan something for
someone who died that was soimportant to you and to be faced
with the task of honoring theirlife, their whole life, in a
(01:39):
period of time, sometimes just acouple of hours.
It's so overwhelming justsitting down with families, as
you and I did.
So much we would come togetherand so much of the time we would
just start with a brainstorm toreally know them the best that
we could.
Sometimes we had never even metthem before, right right.
(02:00):
And it was such an honor to beintroduced to them for the first
time, and so we got to justfind out about their attributes
and their personality.
And then how could we help themcreate a ceremony that would
feel personal to them, thatwould honor just the essence of
(02:24):
the person that they loved somuch?
And so I remember just sittingaround the table and just
talking to them about that andfinding out what was important
to them.
Brad Quillen (02:35):
And it's slow work Because, for those that we
didn't know, we would have to beintroduced to them through
pictures and stories to get afeel of who they were and who
they are and to be able to comealongside and help put together
a service that that wasmemorable and told as much of
them as we could.
And, like you said, it's an hour, hour and a half, two hours,
(02:59):
you know, reception, maybe allthe things.
It could be longer, but it surefeels like a lot of pressure to
put all that together and shareeverything that you want people
to know about your person inthat short of a time.
Erin Nelson (03:14):
Definitely it's slow work that has a fixed
deadline.
That makes it so hard because itneeds that time.
And I know when we have beenwith families we try to say like
there's no hurry, so you don'thave to feel like you have to do
it within a week or two weeks,like just give it a second to
(03:38):
gather the pictures, to geteverybody in town that you want
to be there to do whatever it is.
And also, most importantly, howcan you take care of yourself
during this time?
Because sitting in that griefprocess and the disorientation
(03:58):
of not having them in your life,not having their physical
presence in their in your life,and then also it's like we've
talked, colleen and I I know,colleen, you and I have talked
about just like it's likeplanning a kind of a wedding
right, all the elements right,you have to get flowers, music,
(04:19):
you are gathering peopletogether, you're talking about
meals and where you'll be and avenue and all of that, and
you're it's like you're planningthat in a week or two and
that's a lot of pressure, likeyou said, brad and and
emotionally and mentally likewe're all over the place because
(04:40):
of what's happened and youcan't sit in that, and that's
all that you need to do.
Brad Quillen (04:46):
Because you got to get it done.
Erin Nelson (04:47):
You have to get it done.
Brad Quillen (04:48):
Because the videos do and the music lineups are
due and the speakers need theirnotes and like, yeah, it's so,
so tough.
Erin Nelson (04:57):
It's tough to have that tradition culturally.
I know I'm sure our listenerswill have all different cultures
that are maybe a lot betterthan this.
I would say I don't know ifbetter is the right word, but to
say that when you can give timeto it, it's such a gift to, I
(05:18):
guess.
Brad Quillen (05:19):
Just give it what it needs, yeah, what it deserves
needs what it deserves, and oneof the things that that you and
I talk about and we talk abouthere in the office from time to
time, is that reality of we'rein a culture that is moving away
from funerals, and can you justtake a minute and we believe
that it's so important to have afuneral and share a bit about
(05:41):
why, what are some of thosereasons?
And, again, these are thingswe've learned over the years,
but even the best practices inthe grief world are explaining
the whys in some way.
Erin Nelson (05:54):
You know I think you're right, Brad We've heard
that as a trend and I think ofdoing this work for the past 20
years and learning from otherpeople and families, work for
the past 20 years and learningfrom other people and families
the ritual of coming together toacknowledge this big change in
your life that you don't like wesaid, like you don't have that
(06:14):
physical presence anymore andeverybody needs to acknowledge
that with you, that your lifehas changed so dramatically.
So to come together and towitness that together, to hold
that together, to be welcomed byhugs and comfort and people
that really want to be there foryou.
You have this window of timewhere the death of your loved
(06:35):
one is on the top of mind ofeveryone.
So when you somehow push thataway and are not, you know you
don't create an opportunity tocome together.
Not that you can't ever do thatagain, but it is a window of
time that it is on everyone'smind and they just naturally
(06:55):
want to come around you.
And so, having that time tonotice that someone goes from a
wife to a widow, Right, Right.
Or you go from a family of fourto a family of three because
one child died, and everybodygets to do that with you.
So the next time you seesomeone at the grocery store or
(07:20):
around town on a walk, you'vealready acknowledged that change
in your family together andyou've had some kind of touch in
and I think that just helps youintegrate and like move forward
together in your community.
Brad Quillen (07:34):
There's never the time, like the couple of weeks
after, to gather with thatamount of support and those
touch in and those keystonemoments that we'll have, with
that amount of support and thosetouch-in and those keystone
moments that we'll have, and weneed to come together because
it'll never be the same again,because they're no longer here,
they've died.
Erin Nelson (07:52):
It'll never be the same again.
And those rituals, if you thinkabout the changes in our lives,
like maybe a retirement partyor your child goes from being
eight to being nine and you havea birthday party and you all
come together and you blow outthe candles and you notice
together and you recognize thatyou just moved from one age to
(08:13):
the other, you just transitionedfrom being in college to being
a college graduate.
Brad Quillen (08:20):
Single to married.
Single to married Single tomarried.
Erin Nelson (08:23):
Single to married.
Those are ceremonies andrituals that are built in to, I
think, the fiber of us toacknowledge that into.
We don't want to skip that indeath.
Brad Quillen (08:34):
Correct, hey, erin .
Just a couple moments ago wewere talking about different
changes in one's life thewedding, the going from single
to married, the retirement piecethese are all joyous occasions
but, if we're honest, funeralsaren't joyous Right.
Sometimes we think we got to goto a funeral and be happy and
(08:54):
celebrate, but they're sad.
They're sad, they're upset.
Erin Nelson (08:59):
Absolutely, and we've talked before, brad, about
our approach at Jessica's houseand that's always to reflect
and mirror the griever.
You know the person who's hadthe loss and with honor for them
, what do they need?
And sometimes people will moveinto the celebration of life and
(09:21):
you know, or even if you know,their beliefs are that they're
in heaven, like let's celebratethat they're in heaven.
But you know we talk about herethat you know there's no way
around grief, right, you have toto get on to.
You have to go through thatdarkness and that true mourning
(09:44):
and not moving too fast tocelebration.
We are grieving that they're nolonger physically in our life.
We miss them, we yearn for them, we long for them.
Let the sadness and themourning be part of remembering
that person.
We don't have to just likewe're celebrating them we're.
Brad Quillen (10:05):
Yeah, you and I attended a funeral years ago and
I remember the first things.
We walked out we looked at eachother and said, oh, Nobody said
the word sad.
And I can't tell you how manytimes I've sat with families and
you and I've sat with familiesand planning services that they
didn't plan for this.
This was unexpected.
This was too soon.
We were supposed to grow oldtogether, right?
Erin Nelson (10:27):
Yeah, it doesn't matter how long you have someone
right, you'd still like to havethem Exactly Another 25 years.
Brad Quillen (10:34):
I don't want this day.
Erin Nelson (10:34):
We didn't want this day.
We didn't want this day,acknowledging that together and
not moving so quickly to thecelebration or the afterlife,
whatever that might be, becausewe want them with us we want
them next to us.
Brad Quillen (10:51):
Yeah, in some ceremonies and services we
didn't get a chance to dosomething or it wasn't what we
needed.
Colleen, how would you answerthat?
If someone is kind of wrestlingwith that, even after, or it's
been months or a year or two,what would you say to them that
are listening?
Colleen Montague (11:11):
Having the permission that, if it didn't
quite go the way you hoped, ordidn't feel right afterwards
because, like you both said,you're planning this event under
a lot of stress, how could itever be what you want it to be?
So giving yourself thepermission to do a little redo
if you need?
I'm thinking of a family wholost their son who was a young
(11:47):
adult and they had a verytraditional service for him,
very honoring to the family andtheir beliefs.
But for this man's brother itdidn't quite hit in the same way
that he needed it to quite hitin the same way that he needed
it to.
And so on his brother's firstbirthday after he died, he
hosted a small little gatheringwith all of his friends for his
birthday and they just gatheredaround the table and shared
(12:08):
stories of him and that felt alittle bit more true to his
brother who had died, and whathe maybe would have wanted.
Brad Quillen (12:18):
And to who he was from his brother's perspective,
right.
Colleen Montague (12:22):
Everybody in a family is going to need
something different.
Brad Quillen (12:25):
So hearing that, erin, I have a question.
I'm imagining there's folksthat think and have had the
thought we forgot to do this orshare about this at the service.
And what would you say to thosefolks that have that thought or
have come across somethingweeks, months or even years down
the road that they totallyforgot to share about their
person at their ceremony?
Erin Nelson (12:46):
There's so much that we want to share when we
are remembering that person,with that ceremony and at a
funeral, and we can't we don'thave the time to share
everything right, or there maybe some parts of their life that
we think later, oh, I wish Icould have said that or I wish
that could have been shared.
(13:07):
And I think, just on a personallevel, something that I would,
as I talked with someone who washelping me with Carter's
funeral.
There was so much I wanted tosay and she kind of reminded me
there will be opportunities,like on special days and
holidays and times that you cancome together, even putting out
(13:29):
a photo on social media andsharing a little memory, and
that was something that Ipracticed and actually really
helped me.
And that is a community kind ofjust like a funeral.
You're putting it out to yourcommunity and that was helpful,
just to hear someone celebratethat he sang this song or that.
(13:51):
You know he did this funnything when he was younger and
whatever it was.
It was like I always want toshare that and put it out there
and it just gave me anopportunity to keep remembering
him.
Brad Quillen (14:03):
And you made me think of even months down the
road or every year on a certaindate where people can join you
in lighting a candle or readingsomething maybe they wrote or
sharing a picture, and it's upin someone's home or a number of
people's homes with you for theday right Just to remember that
person that there's alwaysfuture things that you can do as
(14:24):
well.
Erin Nelson (14:25):
To remember them, to hear their stories, and it's
always so fun to get a picturethat I never have seen before or
hear a story that I have neverheard before, and that happens
quite often where people willjust stop me and share something
, and it means so much.
Brad Quillen (14:40):
Yeah, yeah, colleen, can you give us some
ideas on how we can share theideas of funerals and wakes and
viewings with kiddos?
What are some of those thingsthat we can do to break down
that conversation a bit?
Colleen Montague (14:55):
A lot of it comes down to letting them know
what to expect, trying to createa visual image, even literally
taking photos of the funeralhome.
You'll be attending, explainingwhat the service is going to
look like, starting thoseconversations about the body and
what's going to happen to it.
Anyway, you can prep the kiddosahead of time for what they're
(15:17):
about to experience, becausethis may be the first time
they've ever experiencedanything like this.
Even just vocabulary words youdon't normally use, like a
hearse, an urn, a columbariumall these words they may hear or
things they may see in the nextfew days that are very new.
Brad Quillen (15:38):
And Erin, there's a quote by Dr Alan Woolfelt that
we share with families a lotand I just wanted to ask if you
take a few minutes to share thatand the idea of how we help
kids say hello.
Erin Nelson (15:50):
That's something I love.
When Dr Woolfelt talks aboutsaying hello on the pathway to
goodbye, it's such a profoundidea Acknowledging that this
person that was so vibrant andso alive in your world is no
longer that person.
So saying hello to this newpart of them by witnessing their
(16:15):
body not being alive, yeah, andsaying hello to this new way of
their being, where they're notbreathing right and we, as we
talk to children like they don'tfeel pain, they're not
breathing, they're not alive,the heart's not beating right,
so we need to be able to view asmuch as we can, if we if's
(16:37):
possible, be able to be with thebody in this new state, to say
hello to this new reality as webegin to say goodbye to them.
Brad Quillen (16:49):
And I just am going to acknowledge that this
is hard for some people.
This is scary for some people.
This is hard for some people.
This is scary for some people.
You've told me that you wereeven nervous to see Tyler's body
your first husband that died ina plane crash, that first time
at the viewing.
Like you were nervous, right.
Erin Nelson (17:04):
I was nervous and you were 20 something years old.
Absolutely, and I actuallydidn't see his body.
His brother did see his body,did see his body and I was too
nervous because I knew he hadbeen in a plane crash and I
wasn't sure like what it wouldbe like.
Later I learned through Dr AlanWolfelt how he goes to like
(17:26):
plane crashes and mass kind ofcasualty events and how, even
seeing something that's intactlike the bottom of a foot, where
you know, we know someone's thebottom of their feet that's so
intimate and personal forsomebody, so you know that's
them and that is that sayinghello on the pathway to goodbye.
(17:48):
It's hard to talk about this,it's hard to hear about this,
but being with the body itchanges your understanding of
the finality of death.
Yeah, because I didn't seeTyler.
I didn't know all of this atthat time, right, right.
So I expected him to walkthrough the door.
(18:11):
I would hear something thatsounded like the garage door and
I'd be like, oh my gosh, he'shome, tyler's home.
I would hear something thatsounded like the garage door and
I'd be like, oh my gosh, he'shome.
And even the day he wasscheduled to come back from
Alaska, I remember just waitingfor him, just thinking they
could have been wrong, because Ididn't see him and I wish I
could have.
I mean, it's okay, I can't goback to that, but I think when
(18:33):
we have an opportunity to see abody, it's a transformative
experience that we need as partof our grief process, if it's
possible.
Brad Quillen (18:42):
Yeah, I know that it's unsettling.
Erin Nelson (18:45):
It is unsettling.
Brad Quillen (18:47):
We even had someone on our staff say the
other day, as we were kind ofpreparing for this podcast, that
they were in their latetwenties and they were even
nervous about going to a viewingand seeing.
You know the body.
Erin Nelson (18:57):
Understandably, absolutely.
Brad Quillen (19:01):
So, aaron, the other question, as I hear you
say that people ask me, and thishas happened in my personal
life my brother called me anumber of years back and said
hey, how old you know is is oldenough to go to a funeral, you
know cause there was a death onhis wife's side of the family
and their little guy was five, Ithink, at the time.
And he said what age?
(19:22):
And?
And our answer, colleen, tofamilies when we hear that is is
what?
What do we say when, when weget that question?
Colleen Montague (19:29):
Let them decide.
Yeah, ask them what they wantto do, consider maybe taking a
picture even of the body first,to show them that way if they
want, as they try to decide, ifthey want to see it in person.
Brad Quillen (19:43):
But let the kids decide and take their lead with
what they're feeling comfortablewith and all of that, and when
we come back from the break, wewant to take a few minutes and
talk about how do we involvekids in funerals and what is
their role and how can they helpdesign and put together the
funeral or the memorial.
Gary Shriver (20:04):
Jessica's House is a children's bereavement center
located in California's CentralValley since 2012.
Jessica's House provides freepeer support for children, teens
, young adults and theirfamilies grieving a loss.
If you need grief-relatedsupport, please visit
jessicashouseorg to download ourfree resources and be sure to
(20:26):
follow Jessica's House on socialmedia.
And if you have any questionsor topics you'd like us to
explore in a future episode,just send us an email at info at
jessicashouseorg.
Brad Quillen (20:40):
Welcome back everyone and Colleen, as we said
before we had our break that wewere going to talk about, how
do we involve children in theplanning process of a funeral,
of a memorial, of a service.
What would you say to that?
Colleen Montague (20:52):
A lot of communication.
Have a lot of communicationwith them, starting with what to
expect.
You know what is a funeral.
Why are we holding it?
Will the body be there?
Is the person being buried?
Are they being cremated?
Letting them know what to expectIf the body will be there.
(21:14):
Letting the child know whatthat would look like.
Letting them decide if theywant to see the body, describing
it you won't see the chestrising and falling like you do
when someone's breathing.
The color will look differentand so, prepping them ahead of
time, you could even considertaking a photo of the body,
(21:38):
asking the child if they'd liketo see the photo first.
Can you be with the body beforethe ceremony?
So you're not with all thepeople, but you're with your
people.
Your child can just be with you.
There are other safe peopleexperiencing that moment and
relating it to other experiencesthey may have had with a dead
(21:58):
body maybe a dead pet, a deadfish, a dead bug they've seen,
you know and comparing thatexperience of what that body
looked like I appreciate youtalking about the communication
because kids are going to haveso many questions and
curiosities and wonders.
(22:19):
Yes, and being there for all thequestions, that's also a gift
to you because it gives youinsight into their thought
process.
What they're wondering about,gives you direction with where
to take your conversation.
So, looking at those questionsas a gift for you, as a guide if
it's going to be an urn,explaining what that is, what is
(22:42):
that, where are they?
And so even just givingconcrete language about
cremation and that it's heatinga body to a very high
temperature which istransforming it into powdery
ashes and, most importantly,telling them that a body no
longer feels pain, so thatprocess of burial, that process
(23:04):
of cremation is not hurting thatperson.
They don't feel pain anymore.
Trust your child in thisprocess.
Let them be a part of thatdecision making on how they want
to engage in this process.
Yes, and kiddos have defenses.
For a reason Sometimes they'renot ready for something, and so
(23:26):
what would it look like torespect their defenses if they
just don't want to see the bodyyet, and respecting that?
But maybe you do have a pictureto show them down the road for
a time when they do feel readyto see what that is.
So they don't miss thatopportunity like you did, aaron,
with Tyler miss thatopportunity, like you did, Aaron
, with Tyler Aaron.
Brad Quillen (23:47):
what are some of those practical ways that we
might involve kids in a serviceand just some of those tangible
things that you could tellparents or families that are
listening?
Erin Nelson (23:52):
For older kids.
I really like the idea of themwriting a letter describing
their person or maybe writing aletter to them.
It's like we have so manyprompts right, like I wish thank
you for I'll never forget whenI loved, when we Like.
(24:13):
How can you give insight to thepeople that are there about
your relationship?
You know that child'srelationship with that person
and what you would want to sayto them, so letters that could
be read.
I've had, you know, older kids.
Sometimes they'll say I want toread this and always having
(24:33):
somebody with them that can readit for them if needed.
Step in and also there may be,you know, just somebody that
says you know, I'd like to readthis letter on behalf of you
know, for a younger child or achild that doesn't want to.
And even we've had kids I know,when we've worked with kids,
brad that have wanted to putsomething on top of the casket
(24:56):
or in the casket, somethingreally special from them to the
person who died, and they can dothat at the burial, like put
something on top or so, yes,involving them in different ways
of what they would like, tojust how they want to kind of
say their final goodbyes in someways.
Brad Quillen (25:23):
And over the years we've learned, we've gotten
creative.
But for those younger kids thatare coming, what are some of
the things that you would tellfamilies and parents that are
listening on how you can involveyour little ones in there, and
what do they need with them theday of the service?
Erin Nelson (25:35):
Well, what comes to mind is making sure they have
all of their comfort items,right.
So something to drink and eat,snacks, anything that they can
do for fidgeting, but alwayshaving one person per child who
always knows where that child is, that can be with them, someone
very familiar to them.
So making sure they have anadditional caregiver with them.
(25:59):
So, because you know, you asthe parent, are, you know
receiving people and they'represent, we want to make sure
that the child's taken care of.
But those young kids, I thinkwe've I know you and I have
planned big like activity tablesat the service, for if there
was like a gathering after justwatching all the cousins gather
(26:23):
around and do crafts in memoryof the person who died.
Sometimes they'll makebracelets with little beads
where they can remember theperson who died, and just having
something they can wear as alinking object.
Sometimes they write letters,sometimes they just draw, I mean
, a big scribble is really getsenergy out of your body, right,
(26:47):
when you can't maybe run andjump, and so all of that can
just help them express and theycan write their worries down,
you know, or their questions,and so having somebody
facilitate at that table isalways nice too, like maybe it's
just a neighbor or a friend whowould be willing just to sit
with the kids and facilitatesome of those activities as well
(27:09):
.
Brad Quillen (27:09):
And I think one of the things that we think about
as adults is we need a littlebit of a break but kids do too
from the overwhelming amount ofpeople that might be there or
just the emotion.
And that's okay for a kiddo toneed a break and but that person
that's with them and I'm goingto use the word assigned person
that's the caregiver that dayand and with them, but it's okay
(27:30):
for them to need to just bealone and quiet and away from
the whole thing.
Erin Nelson (27:34):
Absolutely Identify a quiet space too.
And where can you, especiallyfor toddlers and babies, where
can you just go just to be in adark, quiet room, just to give a
little break from all thestimulation of the day?
Brad Quillen (27:50):
And when you say their favorite things that can
be stuffed animals, or again,just yeah, the blankies that
come with them, those thingsthat they can take, that into
the service, and that is not abad thing, those are all
appropriate in the moments.
Erin Nelson (28:03):
All of those sensory items that help them
feel safe.
Brad Quillen (28:07):
And one of the things, colleen, I've learned
over the years that idea of thatwe dose like, we ask questions
when we need to, but can youshare a little bit about just
that idea of the person who'sleading the funeral, to even
share a bit about that that thefamily can only take so much or
hear so much today, right?
Colleen Montague (28:28):
Yes, a funeral that we recently attended.
The pastor shared right therein front of everybody.
You know the family is gratefulyou're here.
It's also a lot for them today.
They may not be able to allreceive your condolences from
everybody present, and so hereare some other ideas for you to
(28:52):
connect with them.
And this family had a book thatpeople could write notes in.
They even heard that they haveQR codes now that you can scan
and leave a little writtenmessage on, like a little
dashboard for the family to readlater.
And so all these ideas that youcan implement into the service
(29:12):
so that you're not overwhelmed,in a good way, with all of the
well-wishers that come tosupport you.
Brad Quillen (29:20):
Aaron, what are some of the dosing things that
might come up with kiddos at aservice?
Erin Nelson (29:26):
I think kids just naturally take it just bit by
bit right when we think aboutjust little by little.
They can't well, none of us canreally absorb the loss all at
one time, but kids are so goodat naturally going off and
playing on, just like laughing alittle bit and enjoying a
(29:47):
moment but then coming back totheir caregivers.
So, as you have somebody thatcan be with your child during
the service, knowing that theycan also come back to you as
their caregiver and touch in,and this is a good time to talk
to kids about how we all havedifferent emotions inside of us
(30:08):
after someone dies.
And one of the very firstactivities that we do here at
Jessica's house is called Colorsof my Heart, where kids can
identify all the differentcolors in their hearts, all the
feelings.
It could be sadness, they couldbe scared, they can be confused.
They could also be happysometimes, because their cousins
(30:29):
are with them, or they hadtheir best friend neighbor is
there, or they're lookingforward to their birthday, or
maybe they got a new video gameor something like that.
So knowing that it's okay ifyou're still happy, it's okay if
you're still excited we don'twant kids to feel shame because
they're not crying all the time,right, and so just
(30:51):
acknowledging all the colors ofour hearts and knowing that
there will be times, even asadults, that we laugh at
memories and we have a lot offun, and just knowing that
there's room for all of it.
Brad Quillen (31:06):
Yeah, and sometimes kids will feel guilty
because they're not crying.
Erin Nelson (31:10):
They can feel so guilty and everyone has
different personalities that aremore illuminated after someone
dies and some people are justnot natural criers.
Right and and if one sibling isa natural crier and the other
isn't, the one that isn't canfeel guilty because maybe they
(31:31):
haven't cried yet and it's okay,like it's okay if you don't cry
.
It's okay to cry, it's okay notto cry.
Brad Quillen (31:38):
But they feel even more guilty because they're not
crying at the funeral or theservice, when everybody feels
like everybody else is.
But what's?
Erin Nelson (31:47):
wrong with me?
Right, they can feel that shameand we heard a saying it was
called.
You know, sometimes it's toocold to snow and it's almost
like you're so overwhelmed byeverything that's going on that
you can't even cry.
Just to speak personally, Ididn't cry at my own son's
(32:07):
funeral.
I was so overwhelmed by thepeople and by the experience.
I think I was numb and just somuch trauma involved and I think
back on that and just thinklike I couldn't.
I couldn't access my tears.
My tears really came in private, like when I was alone or in a
very small group, and it was myson who died and I didn't cry at
(32:32):
his funeral and I can't evensay like believe I'm saying
those words, but the truth isI'm not naturally a very highly
emotive person.
But the truth is I'm notnaturally a very highly emotive
person and so it wasunderstandable that that didn't
happen for me.
But just to know that it's okayif you didn't feel that
(32:53):
psychological and sensory levelsafety in that moment to just
let your emotions like, come out.
And I was crying.
Brad Quillen (33:04):
But not in those moments.
I bet there's people listening,thinking this is what I thought
going into the service or tothe funeral, but it was so
different when it actuallyhappened.
Erin Nelson (33:15):
You don't know how you'll feel.
Sometimes you just can't access.
It's almost so deep that youcan't even access that, and it
comes when it comes.
Brad Quillen (33:26):
And we don't control when it comes.
We can't control that.
Erin Nelson (33:29):
We have to follow that wave and let it be.
Brad Quillen (33:34):
You were talking about Carter's funeral, and
that's one of the things we wantto share is you guys did a
great job at personalizing andmaking it feel like him and he
had a big personality he did.
You know it, you know it and socould you share just some of
those ways and some of the ideasyou guys had and more about how
(33:57):
you guys got to those ideas andto make it personal and make it
you know what, as much as youcould in that time to be about
Carter.
Erin Nelson (34:08):
Yeah, you know, I think that while you were there.
So I just remember like justroundtabling even with my family
, you know and remembering him.
You know, with his gusto andhow kind he was to always look
out for someone who needed foodor anything, just a hug.
(34:31):
He was so playful and fun andhe was so witty and charming.
He always had the last word,you know.
And so being able to cometogether and think about reflect
on his attributes and what hemeant to each person, I think,
just being able to pass that toeveryone and for them to reflect
(34:54):
on that as well.
And we had something a littleceremony that we did was just
identifying some obstacles thatyou might have in your life and
just looking forward tosomething in your future.
Knowing carter, you know hislife was cut short but he had
dreams that he never he wasn'table to attain.
(35:15):
And I remember we had a bigbonfire, so it was the fall, and
so people were able, like, kindof like, throw their regrets in
the fire and then hang on to apiece of paper that talked about
their hopes and their dreamsfor their future.
And I've had so many peoplecome to me and tell me how much
that meant to them and how itwas just a time for them to
(35:39):
reflect on their lives andremember Carter.
Time for them to reflect ontheir lives and remember Carter
and take a little bit of himwith um with them and, uh, I'm
grateful that he I got towitness his light and I hope
that some of his gusto livesinside of me and that I can
carry that forward.
Brad Quillen (35:58):
You know we met numerous times in the planning
and every couple of days leadingup, and there was times when we
sat out in the pool area,there's times we were inside,
there was times we were on thedeck of just putting ideas
together and thoughts, and oneof them that sparks to my memory
is your husband, brian, sayingthat you knew when Carter was
(36:20):
coming because his cars wereloud.
Erin Nelson (36:23):
He got a loud car.
I don't think the neighborsappreciated it at all, but yeah,
he was.
Always he loved to work on hiscars he knew what he was coming
he knew, so we did at hisfuneral um.
Somebody brought an old classiccar and revved it and revved it
yeah and so he kind of came outrevving his engine.
(36:43):
I don't know, he just likereally liked to make all the car
sounds even as a toddler, butyeah, it was so appropriate, um,
to have that there but evenflannels you had you?
Brad Quillen (36:55):
had you told people to wear flannels?
Erin Nelson (36:58):
we're gonna have a big bonfire, gather around and
remember Carter, wear yourflannel, and so yeah, and we
still do that.
We like to come together on histhe anniversary of his death
and, if it's not too warm,otherwise, we do it on his
birthday, which is in November.
Brad Quillen (37:17):
It's cold enough.
Erin Nelson (37:18):
In the Central Valley, right, but yeah, so
being able to carry that forwardin a lot of ways.
Brad Quillen (37:25):
And there's things of sports teams or, like you
said, some of those goals anddifferent ways you can tell a
story Pictures are one of thoseand slideshows but also the
things that they worked on orthe sports they played, and I
think of not just work done likeyour son worked on cars, but
there's musical instruments thatpeople work with, or computers
(37:47):
and tech and some of thosedifferent ways to tell about the
person.
Erin Nelson (37:51):
Yeah, just honoring all of their hobbies, their
lifetime accomplishments, whothey were just like.
How can you bring that alive?
Brad Quillen (37:59):
And, sadly, we've done a number of young people's
funerals over the years, but theLetterman jacket was always one
that we saw for years.
Erin Nelson (38:07):
Yeah, yeah, jackets and favorite shirts and just
all of all that animated them.
Hats, hats.
Brad Quillen (38:18):
Some of the guys that there were, you know 30, 40
, 50 hats at their funeralsbecause they just had these
collections of different things.
Erin Nelson (38:26):
Absolutely.
Brad Quillen (38:27):
Well, erin and Colleen, thank you for sharing
today and for those of youlistening, thanks for being with
us, and we hope that if youhave any questions or needs, you
would look at our website atjessicashouseorg, and there's
definitely resources of today'stopic on our website.
You can also reach out to us byemail at info at
jessicashouseorg.
(38:48):
Be sure to join us next timewhen grief comes home, where
we'll be discussing theapproaching holiday season.
Until then, we wish you well.
Gary Shriver (38:59):
Jessica's House is a children's bereavement center
located in California's CentralValley since 2012.
We provide free peer supportfor children, teens, young
adults and their familiesgrieving a loss.
If you need grief-relatedsupport, please visit
jessicashouseorg to download ourfree resources and be sure to
(39:20):
follow Jessica's House on socialmedia.
And if you have any questionsor topics you'd like for us to
explore in future episodes,download our free resources and
be sure to follow Jessica'sHouse on social media.
And if you have any questionsor topics you'd like for us to
explore in future episodes, justsend us an email to
jessicashouseorg.
Thank you for joining us andwe'll see you next time for when
Grief Comes Home.
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