Dorothea Puente was a landlord from hell

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey, everybody. In serial killer country.

(00:21):
My name is Brittany. Ransom and my name is Brian
Joiner. And this is what Killers get
caught podcast devoted deep dives into the lives and psyches
of the Killer's. We love to learn about each one.
Week brand. I find a True Crime Story that
resonated with us and then I discuss one, well-known or
lesser known killer, and go deepinto their childhood lives
methodology. And most importantly how they
got caught and then we get a little spooky and we'll learn

(00:42):
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Hey, there to our first two patrons, who signed up this
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(01:06):
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My God, I should start over saidmy I just bought those funds.
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(01:29):
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So so those are really cute. They're on like his tablet.
Yes, I do like it. It's really awesome.

(01:50):
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(02:10):
brightest convince me to go to the Lizzie Borden house with him
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And it goes time and live stream, it.
It should be fun. Once again, those of you who
support us, thank you so much. And this week in True Crime, my
story, I'm just gonna I'm gonna give you the title first.
Are you ready for this says Indiana mother dismembered.

(02:33):
Husband ordered children to clean up crime scene.
Oh my God. No, oh yeah, this is bad and it
only gets worse. So how many Indiana and so mom
killed the Husband chopped up his body and then she demanded
that her children help her. So mom's name is thessalonica

(02:59):
Alan, she's 34, and she killed Randy Allen.
She shot him and then used an axe to cut off his legs.
I don't know if she just got a little bit tired and didn't want
to continue dismembering him. She tried to enlist her two
teenage children to help disposeof the remains an attempt to
burn the body. She is facing Like half a dozen

(03:21):
charges easily murder. Abuse of a corpse child neglect
and this all happened. The end of July.
So about a week and a half ago and LaPorte Indiana.
Now, there was a hearing just this past Wednesday and the
judge entered a not guilty plea from her.

(03:42):
I don't know why she did that and she got a public defender.
So, the way that she was found out though is that her kids
refused to help and so then she called This is the best part.
She called one of the, the other, like the father of one of
the children and had him try andhave him come.
I'm over to help her and he hopped the cops.

(04:03):
Yeah. What know who?
I'm trying to get me caught up in this stuff?
No, thank you now, she and her, not guilty pleas.
She said that the reason why shekilled him is because he had
been beating the children. Hmm.
Okay. And that, he also beat her and
she shot him after a physical fight.
The kids. However, said that, like, Dad

(04:25):
had just been like helping them on the computer and he viewed a
Site that their mother had visited, which sparked an
argument in their bedroom and the children heard a gunshot.
The police also found two papersin the apartment Place.
Another daughter's. Pillow that appeared to be a
to-do list. The paper said things like hit
him with a hammer and stabbed him roll up the body and sheets

(04:48):
and plastic that was all released at the hearing.
So I don't think that salonica is going to have the best time
with this case. I just I mean listen I don't.
I hate you killing people, but if you're gonna kill somebody,
you got to do it a little bit better, not when the kids are
home and then you can't tell your teenage children.

(05:09):
So come join me know your blood on your hands to children
please. Yeah.
So that's the one that I saw this week and I'm not gonna lie,
I've contemplated making a tick tock of this, because it just
seems like it belongs in stupid ways.
That Killers get gone. Put what she was searching.

(05:32):
No, they did not say what the website was, just that Dad saw
and it bothered him. It obviously wasn't something
that was like illegal or grotesque because the kids would
have mentioned that but I'm wondering if like, maybe like
she, like, purchase something that he didn't want her to buy,
you know what I mean? That stuff that people were most
of the people who are married argue about.
Yeah, you spend your money, things of that nature or she was

(05:54):
searching for a hit man. Well, that would be weird.
I mean, it could. I've been a dating site that
would have caused an argument. Yes, you know.
What was that dating site for people who are married want to
cheat? Ashley Madison.
There we go. Maybe it was Ashley Madison
account. I got it probably was he can't
be Ashley Madison because there aren't any women on Ashley

(06:16):
Madison only men and fake account.
But what did you learn about this week?
Brian. Oh my God.
All right, so I was torn betweentwo but this one, I think I'll
cover this one. Okay.
Okay. So try those.
The headline reads and She was warm public about Atlantic

(06:37):
Atlanta Park after a woman. And her dog were fatally,
stabbed. Wait, is this?
The is this related to the thingthat I told you about?
When I said Elena police told people that this was not a
serial killer. And then all of the people from
Atlanta were like, that's exactly what you would say.
If there was a serial killer because it was also in Atlanta

(06:57):
this week. I'm not sure might be related.
Oh, wow, that's fun says, officials in Atlanta, advise the
public Thursday night To go to hide Mount Park.
Okay? Alone at night.
It seems like Piedmont, Piedmont.
Sounds familiar to me. Piedmont.
That might be Piedmont then again, that could be just the
Filly way of saying it. So let's just go with that one

(07:18):
here. That sounds like it would
probably be that anyway. After it's a one week after a
woman and her dog were stabbed to death the dog to near one of
the park interest is. Yes the dog.
Unfortunately, I don't know why but I just dug was being loud.
And no, I was gonna say, I don'tknow why I'm picky.
Take this one. I was just like three times in a
row, Brian with you. And animal deaths.

(07:39):
That's terrible. I don't know what's wrong.
I thought it was bad enough whenI had the lady Luber driver who
stole the cat. Look.
I was talking about the last oneI talked about was cat Justice,
okay? And this one is just
unfortunately, that dog death, dog death.
So I mean I am a cat person so but I would never wish harm upon

(08:04):
a dog I do. You love dogs as well.
Hello animals. Anyway.
Yeah, at this rate how expensiveit is to get like to pay to have
a dog in an apartment. I won't have one until I have a
house. They charge like hundred twenty
dollars extra a month, I can't afford that but the woman her
name was Katherine Janice pork and she was 40 years old and she

(08:27):
was found at the scene. Multiple stab.
Wounds walking her dog. Yeah.
I don't get like why you would stabbed a donkey because The dog
was also found stabbed and seeing where I imagine that
scene. I bet you, they were real upset.
Like the people who saw their like, oh, this dead woman, the
dog is Step 2. Yeah.

(08:50):
Um, I guess they're still. Looking.
Okay, so there's audio from 911 call Park that was released
somebody sell else found it may be him.
Yeah yeah so hopefully somebody saw something because there's a
balance there, you know, it's a park.

(09:11):
So obviously there's security cameras and stuff there.
That recorded it. So hopefully they can find
something on the security cameras.
They are asking anyone with any information to contact the
Atlantic Atlanta Police homicideunit or Crime Stoppers.

(09:33):
It's a phone number if you need it. 40 45 77 8477.
There you go. And yeah there I guess the
anonymous award a reward for 10,000.
Dollars is pretty good for anybody with information.
Don't be like that, one family that I talked about a couple

(09:54):
weeks ago and Tick-Tock where the mom realized that her like,
kids were a part of the crime and like she called the police
and were like, so is there a reward for information about
this? And people were like You don't
know. Your kids are one of your kids
is a murderer. Yeah.
And the other one helped cover it up.
Are you really just gonna call it?
Ask about the reward money. I wouldn't people are mad.

(10:18):
That's kind of stupid. I don't know.
Oh yeah, so some pretty grisly stuff this week, unfortunately.
I'm sorry, that's okay. That's okay next week.
I won't have a non animal one. I guess we'll see what happens.

(10:39):
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(11:52):
and use promo, code cot for 15% off and make sure you tell
Brittany that I sent you. So this week, I decided to take
a break from the massacres. Some of the, the Nature's of

(12:13):
these like lust killers and likethe, the sex crimes were a
little much for me. Well, I'm just really what it
is, is that like I spend like a lot of time reading these books,
and it's just a lot of that taken consistently.
So, I remembered that I had a series earlier this year, on

(12:34):
Tech talk called Senior serial killers and that one
specifically that they always interests me.
Because the, the general age forwhen people start murdering
others in a Serial fashion, is your late 20s to early 30s?
So I A lot of times people are interested in the much younger
Killers or the much older killers.

(12:55):
And so, you have the exceptionally young, like, Jesse
Pomeroy episode 15, or much older like today.
And She's born in 1929 and she didn't kill for the first time
until 1982. Oh wow, her name was Dorothea
Puente and she is notoriously known as the Death House

(13:16):
landlady and one of California's, more notorious
serial killers with a kill countof nine.
Oh, I think I've heard of her next, you might know this story.
Oh, surprise me story. I know.
Okay. Well, let's learn about who she
was. Decades, before she became a
murderer because she had a, I won't say interesting.

(13:42):
A lot happened and it wasn't allgood.
So Drew Thea Helen Gray was born, January 9th, in 1929 in
Redlands, California, which is in San Bernardino County.
She was six out of seven children.
Number six, out of seven children to give some background
Redlands. California in 1929 was barely a

(14:04):
town. Yet the Great Depression and the
Dust Bowl had caused this. Like Mass Exodus of people from
the Midwest both to the east andwest coast and a lot of people
moved into California is seekingjobs and prosperity for these
parents were two of those people.
The two of them thought like, oh, you know, California has a

(14:25):
lot of farms we can like, you know, pick fruit or do farm
stuff. I thinking that it was like an
easy job. It's not an easy job and her
mother Trudy May and her father,Jesse James Gray worked on one
of the many sprawling, orange Orchards, which was the main
crop in California. The time now, I have to say this

(14:48):
because I looked into this one of my friends, you'll hear me
refer to her as glitch. Glitch is parents named her
brother's after celebrities to this is, apparently, a pretty
common thing. Naming your child like the first
and last name of a celebrity. So, Jesse, James Gray.

(15:11):
Can you imagine though Justin Bieber Jackson, like an
appendix. Trend in the 20s and it also, it
came back in the 50s and so, like, that's glitches, parents
naming a what was her brother named like Roy?
Rogers something. Oh my God.
Is Right. Weird.
But yeah, it's that was already a weird Trend.

(15:32):
I was like I'd that just like struck me and I was just like he
imagined Beyoncé Knowles Martin.That's just sent you here thing
to do. But regardless They had
absolutely no experience when itcame to Agriculture, and the two
of them also had a drinking problem, Trudy ended up creating

(15:55):
such a bad reputation for herself that well, they both got
fired from the orange Orchard, but no one else would hire her
and I couldn't find any records to explain exactly what she did.
But like from this point forward, nobody in Redlands will
hire Trudy. May owe a drinking on a child
probably well so Jesse's the sole Breadwinner and he gets a

(16:17):
job picking cotton for a sharecropper on the edge of
town. There.
They didn't seem to care if he got wasted because if he didn't
show up for work, they just didn't pay him for the day and
on the days that he did get paid.
He spent most of his paycheck onalcohol.
Hey I go to that because I'm just trying to set the scene for
the world. That Dorothea was born into

(16:40):
Trudy continue to drink throughout her entire pregnancy.
And while she was breastfeeding,they say this is the reason why
Dorothea was so short. She got the stunted growth as
Fact of fetal alcohol syndrome when she moved to solid foods
there really wasn't much becausethey were busted broke.
And Dorothy is older. Siblings taught her how to like

(17:02):
scavenge for food. Scraps, pretty much is when is
soon as she was old enough to like walk with that.
And that sometimes they took herout like when she was a toddler
and they used her as a prop to like, get sympathy and gift that
people, give them like food and money.
Wow. That's terrible.
Well, eventually the town started talking.
About the crop of gray kids who are always out begging and Trudy

(17:25):
would get upset. And she would like try and beat
them. The older kids were pretty used
to this though, and like they tried to teach Dorothea like all
you have to do is just avoid her, let her drink a bottle of
whatever it is. She's drinking around the house
and she's going to forget why she was mad in the first place.
That's terrible. Unfortunately, says treaty was
so small and she was the slowest.
Like she couldn't get away from her mom.

(17:46):
When her mom was on the warpath.Well, this is your fault.
She took a lot alike. It's your fault.
I'm so short. She took a lot of beatings meant
for the older children really Trudy was mad at her husband,
but he was never home. So she took it out.
A lot of the kids, think, the weird thing about her is that

(18:10):
Trudy didn't have much malice towards the children, but she
just didn't seem to like care about them, like they were just
there and kind of annoying. Boinging.
Now, Jesse wasn't home a lot. He was either sleeping somewhere
in the house at a bar or at work.
He was also violent with his wife and children.

(18:32):
So, everyone was happier when hejust wasn't around.
He seemed to be more aggressive with the girl children, and they
don't go a lot into details about how many siblings do with
like the, but there were severalgirls and like he would just be
annoyed by them. And so like they would just walk
by and he would just hit them randomly like smack them, like
back Ian them, and then so they lived in a one-bedroom house for

(18:59):
Nine people like and so when he would come home and want to have
sex with his wife, he would literally kick the children out
and they would spend their walk,the streets at night Scavenging
for food. Oh, the hell out of the house.
So they kicked him out of the room, kick them out of the
house. He was like you need to be gone.

(19:21):
Oh and so they would like you know stop by people's houses you
know go through the The garbage after people had dinner several
times. During these night Walks Like
the girls had to gamble sometimes on who they were
walking by, you know, you never know who's gonna try and touch

(19:41):
you. And since they're Thea was still
so little like, like, maybe theymight like grab one of the older
girls like skirt and miss her and grab the baby.
And so, she definitely experienced some level of sexual
assault when she was very, very young.
And so doing that. She didn't she didn't talk much
about. It's easily.

(20:03):
Couldn't get worse though, right?
No, hopefully not. Well one night, Jesse passes out
at work in the cotton field. He wakes up a rain during the
night. He's completely soaked through.
He's a terrible hacking cough and that strange cost last for
months and months to the point where every time he coughed he

(20:24):
was pulling on blood. A doctor was like this seems
like pneumonia so they told him to Stay in bed and, you know,
recuperate would shut down theironly source of income.
They spent their last money on medication for him, but he
didn't get better. And then preacher from the local

(20:44):
church that they used to go to came by and was like, oh, that's
not pneumonia. This is tuberculosis oh I see a
lot of cases because he's like, I am in our, you administer the
last rites to people who are dying and for people who don't
know, tuberculosis is very lethal, and very contagious.
And so the local church was like, don't worry about it.

(21:04):
You don't have to worry about food.
We got you, y'all aren't allowedto leave your house, your
quarantine, they forcibly porn team, this entire family and
Jesse James Gray died in 1937. When Thea was eight years old,
the family had no money and he was buried in Potter's field.

(21:25):
The community felt bad for Trudybut not bad enough to risk
hiring her. I don't know what this woman
could have done to make them have a memory.
This long, it's been at least eight years or longer since she
got fired and people are still like Trudy.
Nah oh goodness. And so as like Like after he

(21:50):
died, they continue to quarantine the family and as no
one came down with tuberculosis the donations started to
dwindle, of course. And so Trudy began visiting with
men about town in exchange for services, first for payment, for
services. I mean, that's the job.

(22:10):
It's a job and pay well, but it paid sometimes, she'd be gone
for weeks at a time and the kidsjust kind of did for each other.
Other it cooks for each other. They begged in town, sometimes
they eat with some of the Mexican families in the
neighborhood. And so, then Dorothea would try
and pay them back by like cleaning the dishes and helping
out in the kitchen. A year after Jesse died.

(22:33):
Trudy got into a car accident. She'd been writing on the back
of one of her clients motorcycles.
When a car. Clipped the back wheel, the bike
flew off the road and down a Rocky Hill, and when her body
was recovered, it was unrecognizable due to the
injuries she sustained. The police were like, well we

(22:53):
have to find the family of this woman.
They tracked down the kids and they're just like the kids are
like She wasn't really here anyway.
And they were like, well, we're just going to kind of keep doing
what we've been doing. We've been handling our own
business, but the state was like, no, we can't allow like a
bunch of people all under 16 to live in a house together.

(23:17):
Sorry. Children know.
So they were all taken and sent to random orphanages across the
state. Dorothea was alone for the first
time in her life and orphanages were understaffed underfunded
and A lot of horrible things happen to her.
During that time for reference, you can assume that very much
like the Indian schools that we are currently unearthing the

(23:39):
horrors that happened in North America right now.
Same kind of stuff happened at orphanages.
Just any situation where like a few people are responsible for
like a hundred children. I feel like that's a recipe for
those children being horrific lie.
Abuse. Yeah.
Yeah. The Fiat nuns or anybody else.

(23:59):
It never goes well. Well.
But Trudy, I mean a Dorothea only to stay there for a year
when she was almost 10 years old, one of her aunts learned
about Trudy's death. Her, aunt went about Gathering
all the kids from all over California and it took the
better part of 1939 to do it, and she brought them all back
together in Fresno, California, the kids very much.

(24:24):
We're like, we're just going to try and move on from this.
And when Dorothea was asked about her childhood she told
People that she'd grown up in Mexico and had moved to the US
when she was 10 years old, she even learned Spanish and over
time she repeated this life. So often that it, she was like,
she believed it. It has no Dorothea had

(24:46):
stability. She had friends, she was growing
up to be a very beautiful young girl.
And then the state intervened again saying that this house
that had like, four bedrooms wastoo small for the aunt and her
children and Seven more childrenwell which was shocking to
Dorothea because she's like I grew up in a one-bedroom house

(25:07):
with nine people. Yeah it is awesome.
This is love just so much space.There is so much space for
activities and they were like, yeah, no, you can't stay here.
And they sent Dorothea and her siblings into foster homes.
Oh my God. Why she lived in Fresno?
L.a. Napa County.
She was just consistently operated over and over again.

(25:29):
And during that time period, shebecame kind of cold and
stubborn. She would fight Foster families,
even basic rules, kind of annoyed her because she'd been
allowed to really come. And go her whole life except for
the like year. She lived at the orphanage
because nobody really cared unfortunately, by 16, Dorothea
was tired of the foster home Shuffle.

(25:50):
She got a job dropped out of school.
Moved out and cut ties with everyone.
She knew she even stopped reaching out to her real family
because that was going to mess up her, her story that she was
telling people. After she had, she saved up a
little bit of money. She moved to Washington State
and she ran out of money on in Olympia.

(26:11):
She met another teen girl on thebus and they wanted a little
room in a motel now at this point Dorothea is petite blonde,
bright blue eyes, got that nice new bottle skin with a tiny hint
of a Mexican accent, So she was the Pinnacle of like 1940s
Beauty and she followed in her mother's footsteps.

(26:35):
Now, 1945 was a really good yearto be a prostitute in the u.s.
because World War 2 was ending, soldiers were coming back from
war, they had money and they hadn't seen a woman in years.
Unlike her mother Dorothea, however, had a little bit better
of a head for business and so she ended up renting two rooms
so that both she and the girl could work and they stayed busy

(26:55):
and made a lot of money. It that she started getting a
regular client. He was 22 years old, and he's a
soldier named, Fred McFall and he was spending, like, he liked
her so much that he would look like a regular time slot to meet
her and the timeslot afterward just so he could sit and talk to
her. Oh, you cuddle time!
Nice, she laid on her tragic. Mexican backstory, has she lost

(27:23):
both of her parents and she'd only been allowed to move here
when she was. Ten years old, and then Frank
proposed to her Weeks Later. Drew they didn't really have any
other options though. She was like, all right.
Okay unfortunately for Fred Dorothea was a hustler through
and through. She stopped hooking when she

(27:45):
realized he could provide for her.
But she had gotten used to making a lot of money while she
was running her little tiny brothel.
So like silk dresses getting herhair done consistently, you
know, Fine Wines. Like I was living it up and
fried was like, Fine. If you want it, I'll give it to
you. They got married in Reno a

(28:07):
couple months later. All of Fred's family was in
Nevada, so they were there. And so, then Dorothea tells them
the story at the wedding that she the Mexican tragic
backstory. But then she tells his family
that they actually had met in the Philippines during the the

(28:28):
Baton Death March. And the problem with that story
is that that means that Fred would have met her when she was
13. I mean, yeah, which is not when
he met her. The family just assumed that
like she was drunk and we were like we're just gonna let this
go fried assumes like she just doesn't want them to know that I
met her when she was a prostitute or she's just a liar.

(28:53):
If I got a job in Gardnerville and they had a pretty wonderful
honeymoon period full of a lot of sex and she actually began
showering Fred with a little bittoo much attention.
He kind of was a little like if she just like really into me or
she like a nympho Like he was in, this is odd because
generally most men in their early twenties.

(29:14):
Aren't looking at their teenage wife who wants to bang them.
And going, this feels like too much.
Oh my gosh. So, the first sign of something
going wrong in this marriage wasthat Fred?

(29:36):
Can't like realize that she was an absolute Mass.
She never lived in a household where she learned how to keep
things tidy. It's true.
She didn't know how to be a wife.
She didn't know how to even be in a proper relationship.
All she saw, in terms of adult relationships, were her drunk

(29:58):
horny alcoholic parents. So that was a problem they would
get into fights and of course she would respond by being even
more sexual which didn't he didn't like it at all.
Yeah. In fact Fred was like relieved
when she got pregnant because hewas like, great now, I don't

(30:19):
have to fuck her. So like that, like nine month
period, he's like awesome. I'm sure every time she came on
to me was like, but the baby, I don't want to hurt the baby.
Yeah, just rest, honey. It's okay.
Take a break. She ended up having a baby girl.

(30:42):
Dorothea kind of hoped that she would be better than her own
mother, but after she had the baby, she didn't really feel
anything towards her own child. She barely looked after it and
one night, Fred came home from work and the house was a
complete wreck and the baby was crawling through like the
garbage on the floor and still wearing the diaper that he put
on the baby in the morning. Oh no.

(31:06):
Three months after their daughter was born, Dorothea
started like taking the baby to her.
Mother-in-law's house and leaving in there all day and
then his mother-in-law would call him.
Be like you have to come pick upthe baby and he's like Mom,
she's not good at being a mom, like please help her.

(31:27):
And it only had seems like, oh, she didn't have a mom to look up
to you. But, like, from a psychological
perspective, some of my sources,believe that, because she never
got to actually bond with an adult as a child in any
meaningful way. At least it's possible.
She didn't know how to bond witha child of her own.
She's never done it. There's certain things that

(31:49):
happen like from a psychologicalperspective that has to happen
and they have to have it in a certain order and like, that's
why I A lot of like that's why there's a big push right now for
fathers to get paternity leave because the bonding period with
infants is super important, right?
Right, right. As is the following couple years

(32:11):
before even the baby can talk and like things like your kids
ability to speak. Depends on how often you talk to
your child. Yeah, definitely kids.
Learn more like the essentially they get better at the basics by
having access to both of their parents and so So like maybe
because she never had that like,as soon as she was born, Trudy

(32:31):
was just like a mother one. Poor baby.
Yeah. And so Frank became kind of
distant and he started avoided going home and so Dorothea was
just like, you know, I'm just gonna drink a little bit.
Take the edge off a little know which only made things worse.

(32:54):
She began cleaning the house, but mainly it was because she
was literally home alone and bored.
And so, Fred was like, oh, is this her attempt at, like
reconciliation? No cleaning now.
And so, Dorothea used sex and alcohol to kind of fill the void
inside of her and Fred's. You dislike lustful behavior

(33:15):
from her as a sign of Love, which he always had and she got
pregnant again and Fred was likethis time baby number two, she's
gonna bond with baby. Number two, So when Dorothy has
water broke Fred was at work. Hmm.
She went to the hospital alone. She gave birth and she told the

(33:37):
hospital, she wanted to give thebaby up for adoption.
Oh she came home the next day? No baby bump and no baby and
Frank was like where's the baby and and Maybe, at some point she
might have thought about like lying.
Oh, I had a terrible miscarriage.
But like, at this point she was just so fucking done that.

(33:58):
She just said, I gave it away. It's gone.
Oh like Fred immediately like rushes to all the local
hospitals because she won't eventell him where she gave birth.
Yeah, he tries to get his suit his second daughter, but Dorothy
had already signed the paperwork, and there was
nothing. That could be done
unsurprisingly, they got divorced in 1948.

(34:19):
Date Dorothea was 19 years old. Very little is mentioned about
Fred and his daughter after this.
So Dorothea run around apartmentand the crappy part of l.a.
expecting to jump back back intoprostitution because she was
like, well, it was good before, but 1948 was not as good of a

(34:40):
year to be a prostitute as 1945.Also, she just given birth to
two children. So she didn't have the exact
perfect figure she had before, but she began Meeting clients at
their homes, getting them wasteddrunk waiting until they've

(35:01):
passed out. And then robbing them of their
checkbooks and valuable Nuke on.That is that's the way to get
paid I guess. Well, this was successful at
first, but in early 1949 police started, getting calls from
bartenders about a young woman. Robbing, John's writing bad

(35:23):
checks, the LAPD, LAPD said, butundercover operation and she got
arrested within the week, right?Course, as she was only 19, the
judge was pretty lenient. And she was sentenced to one
year in prison, but they said she was eligible for parole
after six months. in prison, shegot in trouble for also not
cleaning and so, Well, after youget in trouble enough for that,

(35:48):
you start doing what you're supposed to do.
Yeah, she didn't make many friends right away because she
really thought she was better than most of the other women in
prison. Our attitude slowly shifted
though after some time of just being straight.
Lonely. Yeah.
And she started to see the valueof relationships at least in

(36:08):
understanding that that she could get something from other
people and they could get something from her.
She got really, she got a lot better at telling her fake
backstory, so it was less obvious that it was faked by.
Now she was raised in Mexico sent to the Philippines rescued
by a soldier at the death. March, he had a tragic heart
attack. Just after they got married,

(36:29):
truly a heartbreaking. Oh, my God.
That's so sad. It's going to keep its going to
keep evolving as The Story Goes On.
Oh, no, just got better at pickpocketing when she was and
when she was in her cell, she practiced forging signatures.
And then when she started talking to the other women in
prison, they were like, listen the reason why you got caught
like that is because you didn't change your pattern, enough

(36:51):
police don't really even like arresting young pretty girls.
So if Dorothea could just stay out of their way, when things
got hot and change up, how she was robbing the men that the cop
because the cops saw them as criminals to write.
They were hiring prostitutes. I mean, so technically, they
were also doing illegal stuff. They were like, well, if you do
this, and you just kind of switch it up where you're going,

(37:12):
and not going to the same. Cars everyday and stuff like
that. She's like you'll get away with
it too. She got a lot of prison, four
months later. So that is two months before
when she was supposed to be paroled.
Oh, okay. Some of L.A.'s,
most successful escorts had toldher the best places to meet rich
men and which hotels wouldn't bother you.
So she went back to Turning tricks.

(37:34):
She moved from Riverside County to Downtown LA.
She didn't have to Rob these menanymore.
So the police kind of turned a blind eye to her.
In fact some pretty prominent members of the LAPD were her
customers Now, what's interesting to me here is that
she was definitely significantlymore successful than her mother
by a long shot. But she was still spending the

(37:54):
majority of her money not getting drunk.
But she had expensive tastes, like I said, and they were
causing her trouble. She only drink the finest
alcohol. She wore Silk Stockings only.
She got new dresses and you had like weekly.
She would eat out every night. Oh my god.
Well, if you got the money too, I guess everything was going

(38:17):
real good. Good then she got pregnant again
since there was no access to abortion in 1950 and she
couldn't work while she's pregnant.
She had to kind of abandon her lifestyle.
She gave birth in San Francisco in 1950.
She told the adoption agency, that the father was just some
guy. She hadn't bothered to learn his

(38:38):
name, nor has she considered theconsequences of taking an extra
dollar from him to have sex without a condom.
She went back to prostitution. immediately course, and spend
the next two years hunting for ahusband, That is when she met
axle now. Okay, so I saw his name listed

(39:02):
in two different ways Johnson orJohansson, and I think the
actual Swedish way was probably a Johansson but the Americanized
version of his name was Johnson.So there you go.
We have both. He was a Swedish Merchant Seaman
who was looking to settle down in America their courtship was
longer than usual because they only got to go on a couple dates
before he got called back to Port.

(39:25):
But whenever he docked, he made sure to call Dorothea.
She reinvented her past again, saying that her husband had died
in 1948. She had been approached by a man
at a department store. Who'd given her his card and
told her that she could be a Rockette and she hopped on a
plane to the east coast to audition.
And she got the job because she was just so talented at dancing.
But she wasn't ready to leave California, because she really

(39:46):
loved her job as a chef in San Francisco.
So, she would commute back and forth between California and New
York. No, you would not when he ready.
No, her job is a rocket ended when a girl dancing next to her,
broke a heel and fell into her and they both fell into the
orchestra pit and she broke her leg and the other dancer got

(40:06):
paralyzed and that girl's husband ran off with another one
of the Rockettes, why would you make that?
A little Side Story watching, that's her new story.
So the tragic. So we solve the Mexican then
sent to the Philippines, then came back then her husband died.
Now, we have the rocket story atit, too.
Ooh, it who commutes from California to New York?

(40:29):
Who knows how Axl didn't really question her story?
He was like, he just kind of loved her energy and he was just
like, listen, even if this is probably not entirely true,
she's fun. So he proposed.
Oh God and so dirty. I really liked this setup
because she's like, mmm feed him.

(40:50):
Good sex them. Good, he goes on the boat leaves
me alone for a couple. Months.
Sounds fun. She started burning through the
money again though. Drinking.
A lot of drinking. And usually what would happen is
that she would just live like completely shitty and then when

(41:12):
she got word that Axl was comingback, she clean it.
She would clean everything up and be ready for him.
But one time she was too drunk and he walked into the house and
it was completely like a mess from top to bottom and he walks
through the bedroom and she was passed out on their bed.
And he beat the crap out of her.And because it was the 1950s and

(41:36):
people didn't really there that they're like, neighbors might
have been like my business prefer having a messy house.
It's fine. Yeah, he went back to the Sea.
She got bored. She started drinking and
spiraling again. Then she started bringing men

(41:58):
home. Now, her neighbors, didn't
realize she was turning tricks again.
They just thought she was cheating, so they told Axl when
he got home. Oh, no, no, no.
This went on for years. He would beat her until she
began to act, right? And then she would do whatever
she wanted while he was on, you know, on the water and then She

(42:24):
would do what he wanted while hewas back on Shore.
She reinvented her backstory again, while they were still
dating saying that she was like a holistic doctor and people
kind of believed it because she brought like she had a lot of
potions in her house. And like the neighbors would be
like, yo, you know, what do I doabout this word on my foot?

(42:44):
And she be like I got you and she would go get like one of her
little concoctions and give it to people and they worked but
like she's are probably just like old wives tale.
Al's. She's like, huh?
but the problem was like her husband was like Where are you
getting all these random real drugs from?

(43:06):
And she's like, listen. He's like, also you never told
me that you were like any kind of a doctor.
She's like, listen, listen, I learned about this in Mexico.
I would travel with my mother toremote Villages.
And so I learned by watching herand at this point axles, like,
what is wrong with this woman? And he has her committed in 1961

(43:27):
was only because she's a liar. She's 32 years old, and she had
pretty, All time at the San Francisco Marine Hospital.
The problem is they didn't distinguish between people who
were criminally insane versus those just in the middle of like
a crisis, mmm, and the hospital also had a lot of six Sailors
who were bringing in diseases from everywhere because they

(43:48):
went all around the world. Yeah, at one point, axle
actually had to step in because they were like, yeah, so we have
her plan to be on the sterilization on this date and
they were like, wait, what? Your sterilizing my wife, that's
it. Does the hospital still had an
active Eugenics program in the 60s?
Yeah. And for anybody listening, who

(44:08):
doesn't know the these programs were specifically for mentally
ill, disabled people, and sometimes they forced it on
black women, as a means of population control.
So that the bad people wouldn't have children.
Furthermore, a lot of States paid out, like, in the 80s and

(44:30):
90s for forcibly. Sterilizing a lot of people
across America. Fucking disgusting, you know,
pretty much the way to deal withthe mentally ill was to make
sure at bare minimum. They couldn't make more mentally
ill people because that's how that works.
So, yeah, definitely the doctorsfound her a bit strange.
She was pretty normal except when it came to these constantly

(44:51):
changing stories today. Dorothea might have been
diagnosed as being narcissistic,maybe even psychopathy
specifically because she had no ability to emotionally connect
with anyone. And a distinct lack of empathy.
As Burgers she well you think she would be on the Spectrum had

(45:13):
to think about like the fact that she also had fetal alcohol
syndrome before we even knew what that was right.
So like maybe that's part of it too.
Was there a brain development issue?
We don't know. But they were like, she's
obviously having hallucinations and she's a schizophrenic.

(45:35):
So like the reason why your schizophrenia gets like this, is
because you're drinking so much,so stop drinking and go home and
be with your husband. And that was the that was the
diagnosis and the treatment. So that that was it.
That was you just the medicine. Okay.

(45:56):
If you stop drinking you'll be all right.
I mean they weren't wrong, okay?It's just a regular, the wrong
reason. Yeah, yeah, I mean, that was,
that's right. But that's not right.
That's how we treat schizophrenia though.
Fail. Oh my God.
So dirty. I had really like accepted being
beaten by Axel because she was like Listen, I'm a really

(46:17):
terrible wife so like I deserve it but she was not okay with the
fact that he put her in a facility and the chasm very much
grew between them. He kept putting off like going
back out to sea because he was just like, I need to watch her
and make sure she's okay. He eventually had to go back to
work and he was like, fuck. When I get back, my house is
going to be trash, is going to be awful, turns out.

(46:40):
He had nothing to worry about. When he got home, the house was
perfect. It also was empty because
Dorothea legit left as soon as he was gone.
Oh, she packed up all her stuff and she moved She moved to
Sacramento. She's now in her mid-30s.
She's got the body of a 30, something year old lady, but she

(47:03):
still smart. So she gets back in touch with
some old friends who were prostitutes and she starts
organizing. She sets up the women in a
house. Takes a cut.
Has a brothel. Oh, there you go.
The early 60s. Were a good time to be a
prostitute. Unfortunately, that's because
just has a lot of progressive things going on in America at

(47:29):
the time. Oh, right?
Yes. And unfortunately though she
picked a house in a nicer neighborhood and her neighbors,
reported her, the police did a sting operation, she and all the
other women were arrested and I got to tell you the sting
operation was ridiculous. So the front of the house was
like a fake situation, right? And so a cop came in he

(47:52):
pretended to be like a good trucker and like She like told
him about all the different girls, explain them all?
Like what they offered, he was like, I don't like any of them
and so she was like I can give you a blowjob if you want like
and you pay for it and he was like, yeah.
Now you're all going to jail. What the hell?
I was like, I don't want what, what?

(48:12):
Yeah, that's how I feel about that story too is because she
offered I think so. Is that why?
Okay, I mean okay, well they wasyou got arrested though she told
the police she had. Idea, that place was a brothel
and she was just there. Visiting one of her friends.
Yeah. They were talking about blow
jobs and stuff, she got 90 days in jail and she made the best of

(48:37):
it. She ran into a snag though
because they were like, we really don't want to release you
without a real address. But Axl wasn't picking up the
phone. He was filing for divorce and he
had been told by his lawyers don't respond because that can
mess things up. So she got released and then she
immediately got arrested again. Again, for vagrancy and put back
in prison for another 90 days, which I gotta tell you, that

(49:00):
just seems like a setup. So, she has lost a house that
she had. Oh yeah, they took it back.
Oh goodness. She wish pretty shocked.
That axle wouldn't help her because they had been together
for, like, 10 years. She thought like dang, not even
only been gone for like three months.
Yeah, but he was barely there, you know, true.

(49:22):
Anyway, well in prison, she became a health expert.
And prisoners came to her for advice.
And this time when she got out, she became a nurse aide for the
elderly, the very go. It was boring work and it paid
crappy because she was an ex-connow, but it was a safe job.
She started cooking for herself when she would cook with their
clients to save her own cash andthey didn't seem to care.

(49:45):
Even though it was technically stealing, but they were like,
yeah, she's a good cook and she wants to sit here and eat with
me. So, whatever occasionally meds
went missing but they were like maths, doctor will send more.
And they did soon. The alcohol started going
missing with the food then she'sjust started out right ceiling
from herbaceous. She would use their own meds to

(50:06):
put them to sleep and then she would steal money from them or
just lay around doing nothing atwork.
She retired from private, nursing in 1966 after several
patients died and she didn't want people connecting the dots.
She managed to avoid going to jail for these because when
autopsy I performed the patientshad only the drugs that had been

(50:29):
prescribed to them in their system and it wasn't like high
enough doses to kill them. But technically, there's a
belief that her total kill countis actually 15 because during
this time period, like six of her patients died.
Interesting. So if we add those in and

(50:51):
technically she would have startkilling people in the 60s but
technically like Like this was more neglect than outright
choosing, the murder somebody, right?
Yeah. Regardless she took the all that
money. She bought a large house at the
corner of 21st and F Street. She knew the state wouldn't give
her a license to run a boarding house since she had so many
solicitation charges on her record, but she's just gonna do

(51:13):
it anyway. Oh, oh, okay, I just really
enough. Like she's listed here as being
only in her late 30s. But looking easily 20 or 30
years. Older, the years of drinking And
just the lifestyle were hard on her life.
Hm. Also she was just tired.
Like she needed help to get the rooming house, ready.

(51:34):
So she reached out for workers within the Hispanic Community,
the local immigrants came out tohelp and there she met Roberto
point. They they met and fell in love.
Not really. He was looking to have a future
in the US and he noticed whenever they were doing stuff,
and walked by that, she stared at him real hard and he knew
what that meant. So their relationship moved from

(51:58):
business to personal, she, let the other workers go and he
became the full-time. Handyman at her boarding house
and when I say this was a big house for tea rooms, oh,
massive, she gave him a place tolive and eat and also if he
wanted to sex, but they were notcouple, like, he was like 20 and

(52:23):
she was like 40 and her. Hair was turning white, and it
was pretty obvious that he was using her, but she was also
using him. So it felt a little, alright?
The house opened in 1966, the rooms fill up immediately.
The state is full of disabled and homeless people, because
some of the The hospitals were beating deinstitutionalized and

(52:51):
shut down. So people need places to live.
And so the social workers would call her and there were like,
hey, do you have space in here? You know, this person gets an
SSI, check for the rent, she charged.
She would also cook for all of her tenants and do their
laundry. They thought she was a saint now
really, she was checking their clothing for Wayward cash and

(53:12):
stealing things from them. But regardless, of course, and
1968 Dorothy and Roberto travel to Mexico.
City had an extravagant wedding with her fanciest wedding to
date. She loved Mexico and didn't want
to go home. When we got back though, with
the citizenship secured Roberto started looking for others.
He apparently never stopped dating other women.

(53:35):
Like, even like while they were dating before, he was like
dating women like in the early to because he was 20 and like in
the early 20th, I mean yeah. And he didn't Want to have sex
with Dorothea like at all. Oh no.
As soon as he could, he moved toa spare bedroom in the house
saying is because she snored. now, he never brought a woman

(53:56):
back to the house because he knew the tenants adore Dorothea
and they would tell on him, but He would be seen out in public
with other women and Dorothea, was becoming this respected
member of the community because she was doing so much for this
Panic Community, she was done. Like I'm going to get more of

(54:17):
that in a little bit but so people would call her and be
like we saw your husband with a lady.
But Dorothea was just like, honestly, I don't care.
Just make sure you don't embarrass me.
Oh my God. So back to why people thought
she wasn't saying so She starteddonating a lot of money to

(54:38):
charity this glamorous life thatshe'd always wanted and lied
about became real. She had dinners with Pat Brown.
Ronald Reagan, Clint Eastwood actually, funny story with the
cleat Clint Eastwood dinner thatshe had, it was for like a
republican like thing at dinner and she was annoyed because
Clint Eastwood cared more about like his date that he brought

(55:00):
with him. Then her own.
Oh imagine that She created thislike reputation, we're like a
very much legitimised. Her folks would never accuse her
of stealing from them, and if they did, when the police talked
to her, it was immediately dropped.
Like she had a little office andher office was full of pictures

(55:22):
of her shaking hands with celebrities and like who you
believe this respected beloved woman who donates to Charities
and schools all over the community or a mentally ill
person who lost a ring maybe sometime in the last Ear.
Well based on movies, I'm going to say the mentally ill person.

(55:43):
Roberto kind of enjoyed. Being a husband who didn't have
to do anything. In fact, he stopped doing his
job as a handyman, he would showup to take pictures for the
fancy dinners, but that was about it.
They started arguing a lot, he check out.
He had checked out of the marriage entirely and when he
officially left, Drifter Thea was already over him one day she
like was gone to the house and she checked his room and it was

(56:05):
empty. She pocketed, she like she did
with any other tenant. She cleaned it up pocket,
anything that seemed valuable and felt a sense of relief, she
was back to relying on herself. The only person she could depend
on Ice, no one to embarrass me. Of course, in the eyes of the
community, her husband abandonedher, and so they were like,

(56:26):
well, you know, it's understandable that she's been
going to bars looking for people.
Yeah. She started going after much
older, man. Who are receiving checks
tensions? Some of those men ended up as
ten minutes at her house and others.
She just robbed after having sexwith them and drugging them.
Police started getting reports of a glamorous older woman

(56:50):
robbing men, she's being risky here but she didn't get caught
doing this. 1976 she's 47 years old.
She meets her next husband, Pedro Montalvo, he was an
alcoholic at a bar who she picked up with the intention of
robbing him. Turned out.
She kind of liked him so she didn't drug them and they ended

(57:11):
up sitting in her apartment above the boarding house.
Just talking all night. Oh cool, that's cool.
He moved. It almost immediately.
They had a small ceremony at thelocal church, which wasn't legit
because she was still married toPuente, but she didn't feel like
being bothered by the divorce. Doesn't he had ran off anyway,
who cares? Well, this was pretty short

(57:31):
lived because it happened withinlike a month as soon as Pedro
moved in. He Reveals His true nature.
He wanted his woman to submit tohim and when Dorothea would not,
he would hit her. When he got drunk, his temper
was like unpredictable and whileDorothy was no stranger to
violence first from her dad, then from her second husband,

(57:54):
like this was very different in response to those random
attacks, she stopped going back up to her apartment and would
spend time with her residents, who thought she was amazing.
So, Pedro was like mad because not only is his wife being
disobedient, but now she's beingabsent, but he couldn't hit her
in front of the tenants. And so, then, I'm like two

(58:15):
months after their random wedding, he just leaves.
Yay. Okay good.
Fuck out of here. It's wasted drunk ends up in a
different state, and this is thelast man that Dorothea would
reach out to on her own cool. She started her Bar Crawl again,
but this time was different. She was kind of revolted and
just generally disgusted by men.Instead of robbing them, she

(58:39):
would get enough information from them while they were drunk
change, their address to her boarding house.
Also, you are still reacting to me saying she was revolted by
men. Yes, I was just wanted to
comment on it. I mean, yes, that that happens
after a while you just you just get fucking tired.
Men like, bro, y'all suck. I'm always there, I'm somewhere

(59:05):
on the line like it. This is a thin line of like,
maybe I'd like to know they suck.
Oh my God. Okay, sorry.
But right, so what she was doing, when she would talk to
them while they were at the bar,she'd write down their
information when they weren't looking and then she would
change their address to her party house.

(59:27):
No one questioned it since boarding houses, have so many
people moving in and out constantly.
And so, by the time, the men gottheir checks, rerouted back to
her, she had collected like one or two months worth of pension.
Hmm, she invested her that moneyinto a restaurant because after
her time Talking to rich people.She was like, hmm, rich people
make more money by putting theirmoney into other businesses.

(59:51):
So she got a business partner named Ruth Munroe.
At first, your Thea was the cookat this restaurant that they
purchased and then when she got tired of doing regular work and
like went back to the boarding house Ruth was cool because she
was just like, listen, the business is making enough money
to support itself and workers, you're good, they became friends

(01:00:11):
and that made Dorothea feel strange.
JH, since she had never spent time with anyone who just wanted
to be nice to her and accept nothing in return.
Imagine that 1982, one of her front of the police department
is like, listen, they're building a case against you for
all these government checks thathave bounced through your place,

(01:00:35):
there was nothing to rob the drugging and the robberies to
her, but some of the men who shedefrauded were pretty open with
the police and connections are being made.
And then because that was now a thing.
The police were like, well, maybe we should look into the
allegations from her previous tenants.
You need to figure out what to do because she was going to go

(01:00:56):
to jail for a long time. So Ruth's husband had cancer and
the doctors were going to stop, prescribing him pain meds
because like at this point they felt like he's just going to die
and you're delaying the inevitable.
The cost of his care was a lot so she sold her house to pay for

(01:01:16):
his care and since she had nowhere to go, our kids have
moved out to other states through Thea, offered her Space
in her own apartment above the boarding house.
Ruth was kind of surprised but she accepted the offer.
And Ruth was treated like a queen there.
Like trivia was kind and caring and attentive.
And Ruth is like, wow, no wonderso many people want to live here

(01:01:39):
and then Ruth started getting sick first.
She just started feeling a little sluggish, then encouraged
by Dorothea. She started drinking to calm her
nerves. That, of course, allowed
Dorothea to continue drug occur.In early April of 1982 Ruth son.
William Clausen came to visit her.
When he found out that she was sick, he was surprised to see

(01:02:00):
her sitting on the couch laughing with a crème de menthe
in her hand, which is honestly not a good drink but that's
beside the point. It's just nasty liquor.
It's a it's crowded in math. Isn't as cement drink.
Yeah. It's a it's a freaking cordials
a mixer. Yeah, you don't just drink that
but apparently back, then, you did gross.

(01:02:22):
Yeah. So but Ruth was like, this is my
friend with Thea, you know, we run a business together, she
used to be a nurse so she's taking care of me, William was
suspicious, but he couldn't really figure Dorothea out.
He was like, listen, I never even heard of this woman until a
couple weeks ago. Hmm, But like she seemed like on

(01:02:44):
paper like a really incredible person of course.
And he went back home. The Southland Park by the end of
April, Ruth was dead. With the other investigations
against her Dorothea was definitely a suspect but the
detectives couldn't find any evidence to show that she was
the murderer. You know, Dorothea played the

(01:03:04):
distraught friend, I can't believe my friend, we have to
close our business. Now, I can't run it without her,
they won't even do that detectives needed something.
And so, Dorothy had told them that.
Well, she's been really depressed lately.
She had to sell her husband, herhouse or husband's dying.
She'd been drinking a lot, the corner discovered that she had

(01:03:24):
Had overdosed on her own medicine, alcohol, and
over-the-counter drugs. They ruled this as a suicide.
Lou son was not happy about this, but he was just like,
well, they have a joint account,my mom and Dorothea.
He's like, so I'm just going to watch and see if Dorothea drains
the account, The Joint business account and if she does, I'ma

(01:03:44):
come for her, I mean, but she has to close her business now
anyway. So what is she just closed the
business account then? Well, technically, I think if
you have a joint business account and and the money would
be split evenly between both people.
So he was looking for her. Do something illegal.
Okay. This was directly as first real
official murder, but she was notan idiot.
She knew the police were watching her and all of her and

(01:04:07):
police informants were just like, listen, I can't tell you
anything else other than go get a good attorney.
Yeah. She knew if she took Ruth money
right away, she get caught. So her plan was to not drain the
account until she was in Mexico.So she booked a trip to Mexico.
The cops got wind of it and theygrabbed her just as she was
getting in a taxi with her luggage.

(01:04:29):
The problem with that was they wanted to take their time
because they had 30 fraud cases against her.
But they grabbed her too soon. And so in fact, only three of
those fraud cases were actually finished.
The investigations were finishedand so the judge was just like,

(01:04:50):
I can't hold her for Stuff work you haven't done yet.
And yeah, so he was in the judgewas also kind of moved by the
fact that she was. So, giving to the community, he
really gave her the benefit of the doubt, and gave her five
years in prison for three investing for the three of us.
Investigations that have been completed.
He said that there would be parole afterward.

(01:05:11):
It was a weird parole rule, though.
So, her parole was that she could never run a boarding house
or work with people of a diminished capacity, pretty much
ever again. Which were the people who she
made a fortune exploiting. And then they said, I just
Sacramento County Jail. In jail.
She was an older woman. She was known to be the prison

(01:05:33):
gossip, which kind of allowed her to kind of pass through all
the gangs with no issue. She even talked to the guards
and pass along information whichwas her fatal flaw, not fatal,
but a big flaw. She told the guards who have
been responsible for an assault on another enemy and the
response to that was that Dorothea got beaten within an

(01:05:53):
inch of her life in the shower and left for dead.
She got Were to the hospital Wing.
They wrapped her broken ribs. And then they put her in
solitary and they were like, we'll just keep her here until
this blows over and that was a year.
Oh, It also caused a whole ripple effect in the prison.

(01:06:16):
That was pretty awful too, because she given them the names
of the people who were in chargeof these attacks who were, like
gang leaders. So they were all also in
solitary, and then there was nobody to keep the gangs in
check. So, like everything was real
quiet. Yes.
But what the attack on her did do was, he told everybody else
don't talk to the guards. So from solitary, she started

(01:06:41):
writing letters in prison. She's not responding to like
those prison pen pals and those letter she could be whoever she
wanted and she could take as long as she wanted to tweak the
story and make it more believable.
One man wrote to her every day. His name was ever seen, Gil - he
was retired. He lived in Oregon a widower

(01:07:01):
with children who never visited him.
He was a loving man who was verylonely and I became friends.
And then he started sending her commissary money by the time,
she went back to gen. Pop the letters had turned very
serious and the two were making plans together.
Ever seen, was the man that Dorothea wished, she had met,

(01:07:22):
when she was 16, the kind of person who she, you know, kind
of bright. I'd hoped to had meet the
problem was at 54 years old, that little girl was long on,
right? Yeah, ever seen was talking to a
woman who killed her best friendfor a ticket to Mexico.
It's just a different kind of gal.
Yeah, when she was released in 1985, on parole ever seen,

(01:07:44):
picked her up their relationshiplasted for three months.
Her big boarding house have beensold because she owed four
thousand dollars in restitution to the victims to pay back the
money that was stolen her. She couldn't buy it back from
whoever had purchased it becauseIt was being like renovated,

(01:08:06):
right? Everson helped her get a new
smaller house and her own apartment down the street.
They opened a joint account together to prepare for their
wedding and he put He would put like the rent money in there was
like $600 which is still a lot of money because the $600 in
1985 way different than $600 in 2021.

(01:08:27):
That's true. So I must have been a pretty
nice apartment. Iverson had his very large
pension directed to their joint account and this was so they
could show their income to the bank when they were going to
eventually buy a house together.Even though all of her wealthy
friends in abandoned, her the social workers of Sacramento

(01:08:49):
loved her. And they were just like, you got
a new house. We got people and nobody else
will let these people stay anywhere.
What the hell? No, guys you, what are you
doing? So this time her boarding house
became the worst cases people who are seriously mentally ill,

(01:09:09):
very drug and alcohol dependent criminal people who couldn't get
a place to stay that way if theydisappeared in a month.
Nobody cared. Oh ok NVM thing that what you're
doing a verse in more than likely didn't realize the truth
until he found himself. Also going through what Ruth
went through. Because he died too.

(01:09:32):
That's why I hid or their relationship was so short.
She drugged him as well. Now, Dorothea new of ever since
body made it to a corner that itwould be identical to what
happened to Ruth. So she was like, his body has to
disappear. So she wrapped him in sheets
like bed sheets, then plastic sheeting.
Then she started contacting someex-cons folks new in the area.

(01:09:55):
You work for Dorothea, you don'task questions, you do your job,
you make a lot of money. So she had hired a bunch of
different guys to help with getting the regular house ready
and one she ended up like connecting with his name was SML
Flores and she was just like, listen I need you to build some

(01:10:16):
special stuff for me. She asked him to build a box
that was six feet long and she wanted him to deliver that to
her apartment because she was gonna be moving things from her
apartment to the rooming house. And then Then she wanted him to
build a bookcase in her room in the boarding house and then she

(01:10:38):
was going to put books in the the the coffin Shaped Box.
She asked me to build the 6-footbodice six-foot-long box, which
is doesn't make any sense? Then she bought him a car like a
truck. And she said, hey, once you're
done building the book house, I'll fill the thing and you can,

(01:11:01):
you know, cart a box of book. We could will take you to the
boardinghouse, the box of books being ever since body.
She then she nailed it shut. And he was like, that's kind of
weird. She's like, that's so nothing
falls out. Oh yeah, of course we took a
taxi ride, a very weird, a taxi ride where and where she was
like, turn left turn, right, turn this way and then she told
them to go to the Garden Highwayin, Sutter County and she's

(01:11:25):
Like, you know what? I've changed my mind.
I don't want this box. Let's just throw it.
Oh, the highway off the highway because it was an area where
people dispose of a lot of junk,it was right on the edge of a
river. Okay.
And so it's mail picked it up and chucked over the edge.
You know, I spent all this time on this box.

(01:11:46):
You just want to throw it away. Well, it smells like she was
really happy with me but then like she didn't hire him
anymore. Yeah.
He was like, you know what? I got paid and also like I also
got a free car from this job. So I'm just gonna like Not
question it. Yeah, don't yeah.
Yeah. Early 1986 everson's body is

(01:12:08):
discovered on the banks of the river by a fisherman.
The 6-foot box looked exactly like a coffin.
The police were called with the body was like horrific lie,
decompose the plastic wrap and the heat of California had
caused it like to rapidly decompose and so nobody could
identify him and he was filed asa John Doe, he wouldn't be

(01:12:29):
identified for another three years.
The day, went back to her. Check fraud days and she was
making about five thousand dollars a month here.
So, what she would do is she would kind of Stack her Rooming
situations. So like, if somebody was a drunk
and she knew that that drunk wasgoing to get like had gotten

(01:12:50):
popped by the cops, and Michael gave me he'll for 30 days
because that's pretty normal. Then she would have somebody
else come stay and she would collect the money from that
person and then that person got caught.
And so she was like stacking them like that, like back and
forth. She also would do this thing
with some of her tenants were before the mail, like before
anybody else, even woke up, she would stop and get the mail.

(01:13:12):
She would take all Checks and she would pay them like a
stipend. Of course, weirdly though, older
and older people were like, theywanted to board with her and
stay and she's like, I'd only one people to stay because I
want them to keep moving so I can steal from them.
All the while this is happening her parole officers and parole
agents, visit the boarding houseand they never report that she

(01:13:35):
is flagrantly. Violating her parole.
Yeah. Because you're not supposed to
have a brick and boarding house.Nope, tenant start going
missing. So, August 19th, 1986.
Betty Palmer, 77 years old goes missing.
After she goes to a doctor's appointment, a few weeks, later
Dorothea has an ID card with herown face on it, but Betty's

(01:13:58):
name, hmm, to get her benefits. February, 1987 78 year old Leon,
a carpenter goes, missing after being discharged from the
hospital, sleeping and sleeping.Under these couch, she wasn't
even like a full tenant. There was no space for his
crash, and yeah. James Galbraith, 62.
He went missing July 1987. He just got in treatment for a

(01:14:21):
brain tumor and told his doctorshe was moving to 14:26 F Street.
October 1987 62 year-old Vera Martin moves into the boarding
house. Never heard from again.
Dorothy Miller, 64 also goes missing that month.
October 1987 Burt Montoya, arrived in February of 1988 and

(01:14:43):
as soon as Dorothy is started helping with his financials, he
went missing two when other intense asked about him.
She told them, he gone to visit his family in Mexico.
Now just before Burt disappeared, the Department of
Social Services, got wind of herillegal, rooming house and
decided to pay her a visit the inspectors knew of her past, but
they were like, it seems like she's cleaned up.

(01:15:04):
Her act, everything is above board here.
She also hired a handyman and they called him Chief, and the
neighbors noted that Chief was seen digging around the property
and building here, e cemented the basement.
Also cemented a slab of concretein the backyard.
And then he also went missing. Oh, right?

(01:15:29):
The first person to be persistent with her suspicions
was Peggy. Nickerson a social worker, who
had sent several people to Dorothea, and she couldn't get
in contact with them anymore. And Dorothea was like, listen,
they come and go, you know, how the transient folks are.
And she's like, if they come back I'll let them back and
Peggy was like sure. But just to be safe she didn't

(01:15:51):
send anybody else to Dorothy as house ever again.
Next person to disappear was Benjamin think he was 55 and he
went missing April of 1988. He was last seen.
After Dorothea told other tenants, she was going to take
him upstairs and like be his nurse.
Never seen a gap so it's just it's November 7th 1988, there's

(01:16:14):
another social worker named, Judy moist, she was Burt, social
worker, that's just his nickname.
His name is actually much longer, he's like five Spanish
names, but My God and she was just like she told the police
Bert doesn't he's not the type of run away.
I don't think he went to his family and it's also because
like one day Judy like went to go see Bert and Dorothea told

(01:16:44):
Judy, oh, he's sick right now, you can't go in there.
He's like quarantine from everybody else and she's like,
oh, when he feels better, I'm going to go check on him and
then the next day she's like he got a call from his sister and
he went to Mexico. Like these are not good lies.
Uh-huh. Yeah, not consistent and doesn't
make sense. He's just sick.

(01:17:05):
Uh-huh. The police accepted of the
complaint and they went to talk to the Dorothea while they were
there. Another tenant past one of the
officers and note that said she is making us live for her.
By chance, one of the police officers who had been there.
His name was John Cabrera was atthe store later that day, buying

(01:17:26):
cigarettes at the same time. As the tenant who passed him.
A note that tenants name was John Sharp.
The two decided to stop at a cafe and talk.
Now, this happened, like hours later.
He had gone back to the police precinct and done a little
search on John Sharp, just to make sure like, they didn't have
a history, right? And that he wasn't, like, trying
to set Dorothy up. So then he was really

(01:17:48):
interested. He was like well fancy meeting
you here. Let's go have lunch and sharp
didn't know all the details but he also like it was a pretty
bleak picture that he like painted.
You know, holes being dug in thegarden overnight and then like
three Thea was building this elaborate Garden every time

(01:18:09):
these like weird you know? Yeah disappearances happen.
You know things getting It in concrete guess getting sick.
As soon as they arrived, the sickly sweet smell in the house,
blamed on rats or fish. Emulsion in the yard Dorothy is
spending habits getting outrageous.

(01:18:30):
So, November 11th, four days. Later.
Cabrera is like, let me see if Ican do something.
He was not new to the forest. He had been on previous
serial-killer cases. Mmm.
So he comes with the intention that they're going to dig up
something that day, but he just shows up initially leaves the,

(01:18:54):
the shovels in the car. He brings a parole, her parole
officer and a couple other uniforms.
Pretty is all smile. She offers them T.
She lets them walk around the house.
They don't see anything out of the ordinary though.
Her room smelled. What kind of weird she told him,
it must be a dead, right? Under the floorboards and she
was very embarrassed about it. Cabrera was like, Hey, you know,

(01:19:17):
you told me the other day that You like burry the trash for
here for like compost? I'm just worried that.
Like, there could be some evidence from that trash, you
know, you didn't realize it was evidence, can we like poke
around a little bit and so They both knew what this was,

(01:19:41):
Dorothea knew that she had to let him do it because if she
said, no, then everybody who walked out of her house that day
was going to be suspicious of her.
So she said, yes, because she was like, screw it.
They're not going to find anything.
Hmm. They find trash.
They find like old beef jerky and piles of trash like you know

(01:20:03):
and Dorothy has their oh so sad.They're ripping up my beautiful
garden. You know, later on fact, so
horrible. It get to the point where like
they've dug pretty deep and likeCabrera is like fed up.
He jumps into the hole, he pullson a route with all her strength
and it pops out and he sees a human shin bone.

(01:20:24):
Here you go. That's what you're Come here,
buddy. In fact, he hadn't been pulling
on a root at all. He had been pulling part of part
of the leg bone. Oh, out of the ground, you had
already found what? You're looking for Buddy.
He didn't realize what it was because he's just a regular cop.
He's not a CSI. Yeah, he didn't arrest the fake
stunned, Dorothea. She was just like because the

(01:20:44):
problem was they were looking for Bert, who would only really
been fate. Only been filing missing like a
couple days before. There's no way that a body
skeleton. You know, it's skeletonized.
That's not the right word becomes the skeleton in a couple
weeks at best. You know what I mean, skeletal.

(01:21:07):
That's why I wrote my notes, butI was too excited.
But yeah, there's no way to a body can become a scheme, come
skeletal and just a couple days.So he's just like I have to get
a warrant so we can do more surgery.
The next day, it's a Friday. It takes some time to get the

(01:21:28):
warrant Saturday forensics team descends on the property.
They're like so yeah. That will you thought was jerky.
Not jerky. That's mummified human flesh.
Oh no. And they were like, well, we got
some good news and some bad newsfor you because these remains

(01:21:48):
are woman. So this is not Burt Montoya, but
it's a body, you got a body, oneDorothea saw them.
Look at the concrete slabs. She dresses in this like
elaborate fancy red outfit puts like Or grand in cash, in her
purse, walks out to the police. And she's like, am I under
arrest officer and prepare is like?

(01:22:10):
No. No.
She's like, well, I'm really like, you know, a little like
unsteady. I want to go get a coffee at the
hotel that I'm going to stay at,because she can't stay there
because this is a crime scene. So he's like, oh absolutely,
I'll drive you there myself. Hm.
They uncovered seven bodies thatday.

(01:22:33):
One of the watches on the body was still ticking.
Meaning that this body was fairly recent, right?
The reason why her her apartment, her little room.
Smelled gross is because she Remove the Jaws.

(01:22:55):
In a forensic, countermeasure. In fact, apparently, they found
like a set of, like, part of a jaw outside of her window, like,
on a Ledge. Oh, my God.
Had tried to throw them out back, like hide them.
So that smell it. Her room was from actual
decomposition. Gross.

(01:23:18):
The police were, like, yeah, we need to go talk to her.
She was gone, of course, and thepolice are very embarrassed
because they definitely just leta serial killer walk out of her
house. Yeah, that was your fault.
The FBI gets called, they start tracking bus stations trains,
airports, she books a fake flight to LA in her own name,

(01:23:40):
but she never took the fight because she wanted to send them
on a wild goose chase. Instead, she hides in a hotel in
downtown LA called The Royal Viking the public and the Press
Hammer, the police, they're likemaking fun of them for letting
her go. And she kept a low profile at
first. And then she got bored.
So she went to a bar fucking bored.

(01:24:01):
She's completely out of place inthis city Downtown Bar, and she
introduced herself as Donna Johnson and she talked all night
with a young man of gentleman and flirted with him.
He told her he'd take her shopping the next day and he
went home, and he was just like,I think, I think dhamma is the
lady on the news. So he called CBS because he was

(01:24:24):
like, I don't know if I want to call. 111 if I'm wrong.
So he called CBS and they put them online with the assignment
editor. And the assignment editor was
like, oh, this could be big. You call the cuff before you
call the damn reporters, okay, he called the reporters.
Oh my God. So first to CBS guy was like,
well, watch a news story, and see if it's her.

(01:24:46):
And so he watched a new story but like they didn't show a
picture of her and so then the news editor came and showed like
a peak like a picture print out of her.
And he was like, I think this could be her and he's like all
right how about this tell her you're going to come see her
tonight. and so, He convinces. Just this man to go.

(01:25:09):
Tell her I'm going to meet you. I'll come see you tonight at the
Viking and at 10:20 p.m. this man shows up with CBS and the
cops if she gets arrested on TV,okay.
I mean in any other circumstances is how people die
true when like doing it. Been that kind of a killer like

(01:25:29):
yeah pop pop and randoms. Yeah absolutely but like
honestly that point she was cornered so she just Went over
to her purr. They were like excuse me ma'am
are your two thiet Dorothea Puente and she was just like she
went over to her purse. Pulled out our wallet and was
like this is I'm yeah it's me, here's my ID let's just take me
in. Yeah she got arrested, no bail

(01:25:51):
her lawyers tried to argue that the trial was going to be a
media circus. This would hurt her, she was
going to have a fair trial. The prosecution was like she's a
cold-blooded killer and there isnothing that we can do to like
change that. Yeah we can't make it any worse.
Yeah. Yeah, the judge ruled that the
trial is going to go as planned.So June, 19th 1990.
Dorothea Puente stands trial fornine.

(01:26:12):
Counts of murder. Her lawyers.
Did a really good job, and they got it.
Pushed off until February 9th. 1993.
Oh, yes, they were able to file enough motions and get things
shifted around that. It took three years.
Oh, Her trial, they were 153 Witnesses. 3,500 pages of

(01:26:38):
evidence that were shared and the jury did not deliberate
begin deliberations until July 15th.
Oh, my God. So, nearly five months of a
trial and they were well aware that the prosecution was seeking
the death penalty. Days pass.
Nothing's heard from the jury. August 2nd.

(01:27:00):
The judge receives a note that says we are deadlocked on all
nine counts, we need further instruction, the defense is
like, oh perfect mistrial, but the judge is just like no, no go
back. Go through the evidence try
again. Hmm.
August 26, 1993, they have a decision before a pack Kirk

(01:27:22):
courtroom the court clerk reads the verdict guilty of the crime
of Murder in the second degree against Leona Carpenter guilty
of the crime. Murder in the first degree of
Dorothy Miller, guilty of the crime of Murder in the First
Degree, Ben Fink. They were locked on the last
six. Hmm they couldn't make up their
mind. I think it was like 7 to 5.

(01:27:45):
So with that, there was also they also have the allegation
under special circumstances. That found Dorothea Puente had
committed multiple murders, including Everson Hearing the
verdict. The judge move to declare a
mistrial on those other six counts.
Those other six victims did not receive Justice, and that

(01:28:07):
included and I wrote his name here Alvaro Jose Rafael
Gonzalez. Bert Montoya.
Just want to help. I had so many names random is
Burton and that was his nickname.
I don't know where it came from.But, uh, Burt did not get
Justice. Yeah, December 11th 1983.

(01:28:28):
Judge verga hands down the sentence.
Dorothea Puente will be committed to life in prison
without the possibility of parole that day in court with
news cameras and writers she turns and looks at her attorney
and goes I didn't kill anyone. Okay.

(01:28:54):
She was incarcerated at the central.
California women's facility in Chowchilla, conform California,
where she maintained her innocence for the rest of her
life. Come on her borders.
Had died of natural causes and they didn't have money for a
burial anyway. So she just put them in the
backyard. Look, you already got caught?

(01:29:14):
Why do you? Why you need to keep lying?
Ironically she died in prison, March 27th. 2011 of actual
natural causes. She was 82 years old and I
thought sends the crazy story ofDorothea.
Helen Gray, Mick foul. Johansson Puente Montalvo,

(01:29:35):
which, at one point she did go by all of those names, which is
the noxious, yeah. Okay, Daenerys owed.
Are you? Okay?
Dorothea Targaryen woman of sex.Names.
But regardless I mentioned earlier off-camera but like the
sources for today's were so fun.Like we had few just fantastic

(01:30:00):
names for books like human Harvest by Daniel Blackburn.
The Bone Garden by William wouldDisturbed ground by Carla
Norton. Everybody just had a field day
with these books. These are like horror story
books. Yes, they were great and I
Mistresses of Mayhem was a book about all women criminals.

(01:30:23):
I like that. Yeah, title that one.
I might have to buy that. Yeah it has original author's
name is Francine was Salah but Ialso saw a copy where I guess
like her last name change and it's also says hornberger.
Hmm, so you're married God. Yeah, I guess you're right.
Got married. But yeah, that's it for me.
Sorry. Little long.
But, oh my God, lady was nuts. That was a was a while, right?

(01:30:46):
Just, this is all those interesting ones because this
isn't somebody who I think like,yeah, sure.
She suffered from she was a pathetic constantly, right?
But she didn't have the typical.She didn't torture animals.
She didn't, you know what her bed when she was 15?
She didn't have any brain damagethough.

(01:31:07):
We're not quite sure about that,good luck, all syndrome.
But like for the most part, thiswas just like a continuous Life
Of Crime. That's low.
We escalated over time. So very interesting though.
Yeah, let's say it's very interesting.
Well, what are we learning abouttoday?
Huh. Okay, well today, I don't even

(01:31:29):
have like a proper intro for mine honestly because I was
like, I don't know how to describe these things.
I'm going to be talking to you after your conspiracy Crypt
intro. I don't think you could do
better. I don't think I could.
Um, so, this week, I will be discussing some things.

(01:31:51):
Okay so answer me this. Yeah um have you ever like
driven or getting, you know, dribble around or walked around
and seeing like something just strange just like our ordinary.
You mean like glitches in The Matrix strange?
Um no. But that's a, we could talk

(01:32:13):
about that one day. This interesting topic.
He said, one day. Yeah, that's a weird ride.
That's right. And idea for next week is, what
do you mean? Um, like something like an
abnormality, like something creepy or something strange out
in the wild of the world. I'ma stop you right there

(01:32:36):
because I don't go into the wildbut I'm a city kid.
I mean, it was just really amazed the concrete jungle
outside of your house is the wild No.
No. What I think of the Wilds.
I think of like the woods. No, we don't do Woods here.
Okay. But continue.

(01:32:58):
Well today I'll be talking aboutsome creepy things that happen
out into in the world, okay? Um over the past couple years
recent yeah about like five years ago.
Okay. That's extra creepy because it's

(01:33:18):
like now, yeah, just warning. This is probably not going to be
very paranormally. Okay.
Episode. But you know, it's gonna be
creepy, know, five years ago, seems like song.
Now, like honest covid made lastyear seemed like a lifetime.

(01:33:41):
This is true last year was long as your yeah.
Like 2016. My beautiful daughter was born,
my life was shitty, but it's notbecause of my no.
Not because of my daughter beingborn.
It was just I was just in this shitty shitty yinz energy.

(01:34:11):
Oh, one major thing. Besides my daughter being born
that comes to mind whenever I think of 2016 Is those creepy
creepy clown? Sightings oh yeah, I remember
that. That was that really that long
ago? Yeah. 7:16 bra.

(01:34:31):
Some of those were like legit. I've seen like people CCTV,
footage of, like, folks and clown costume showing up with
knives at people's houses. It's the other reasons why I'm
happy. I will then, and there is no
little peep hole on my door. Yeah, we just slide that lock
Walk and never look hmm. No I myself have not run into

(01:34:58):
any of these fine people standing on you know the side of
the road or sending in parking lots but other people have.
I remember somebody in a clown costume getting stabbed and I
think the UK Wow, I did not see because the person was scared.
I believe it. Like, and it was like the first
of the clown had a knife to. Yeah.

(01:35:20):
It was just the other person also, like they were, yeah, they
were more prepared to use her life and protect your life
because your creepy ass clown inthe costume.
Fear. That's it's an irrational fear
for some people. So when people are presented
with those, they go into like immediate fight or flight

(01:35:43):
response, right? I've seen people scream
butterflies. That's what I that's another one
of those and falls under there too.
Yes. Um fear of clowns coulrophobia
well see you knew the name? Yes.
Yeah. And so it's pretty common.
It's, yeah, it's really common. Yeah.

(01:36:05):
It's, you know, it's funny aboutthe butterfly thing.
I just remember being in high school and I was, you know, you
stay home and watch Maury and they had those episodes, you
know, phobia episodes and was person was like afraid of
balloons, I believe and they just robbed Luna and he started
screaming. I was just like, wow, that's a I
know people have told me that part of the balloon.

(01:36:26):
Fear is the not knowing when it'll pop, mmm.
And the Butterfly thing is like,Fact that it still bugs and bugs
move in a way that is technically kind of creepy.
I mean, yeah. But I'd like I get the balloon
thing because I people cry because of butterflies.
Side note, I just learned recently that butterflies will

(01:36:46):
eat almost anything that's dead.Yeah, it's a, it's really so
they are beautiful monsters. That will definitely devour your
body. It just take a really long time.
Yes. Um but yeah enough of the
Clowning Around let's get let's get to the meat of this.

(01:37:11):
All right? I know.
Now 2016 was not the first appearance of creepy clowns,
okay, hanging around. I'm just going to go down a
dates and tell you these instances, 2013.
Okay, there were several Sightings over creepy.
Clown in Northampton England. Oh no.

(01:37:36):
This clown. Look like, I guess Pennywise his
brother. Okay.
And it was created by three filmmakers, Alex.
That isn't a pea or D, I can never remember this year.
I know I can't ever remember what I write.
Alex, pal, Elliot Simpson and itLuke This was like for a movie

(01:38:01):
Blonsky. Yes.
Okay. So they were pretty much trying
to get hits to her so they made a Facebook page so that happens
a lot in California. Mmm.
They do stuff like a random haunted house in the middle of
like Town. Yeah, they just build for like a
day and then people walk throughand it's like come look at our
new movie that comes out next month, so no and house.

(01:38:21):
Yeah. Oh God, see, 2014 had some
creepy clown. Counts as well, a YouTuber, his
YouTube handles DM Pranks. Okay.
You dressed up as a clown to creep.
Pastor buyers out and and Cal I guess that's an anti mr.

(01:38:46):
B's. Yeah, that's Ruby's.
Gives money makes people happy. This guy dresses up like a crown
and frightens people in California.
And same year, there was a clown.
That was Nick. There's a creepy clown of course
it was. Nicknamed the Waco clown?
Down since that's where it appeared the most.
That one sounds familiar to me. Hmm. 2015.

(01:39:09):
Okay, had a brief spotting OB creepy Crown.
So this happened in Chicago. This I like this story.
It's fucking creepy is so weird.Okay.
So two people were out late at night.
When you see this clown like climbing the fence of a
cemetery. Yeah.

(01:39:30):
Hope okay. Oh clown outfit makeup and
everything? Do not like that now.
Yeah. That's spooky enough.
See, but what happened to actually just as bad?
So the clown gets over the fence.
He's in the cemetery. Now these people, they are
recording him, which is climbingthe fans and just getting in
there and he turned around. If he just slowly waves at them,

(01:39:57):
that's probably a good video andthen he runs off into the wooded
area of the cemetery. Okay.
Never to be seen again. All righty.
So you know buddy. Nobody knew who this clown was
at all? Oh yeah, that was like the one
of my favorite ones out of here.All right.
So no 2016. It all started.

(01:40:25):
In Green Bay Wisconsin, Sophia did just my mic so it all
started in Green Bay, Wisconsin.Hmm, 1 clown one parking lot by
himself at night, okay? If he just loves a clown went
viral, there was even a Facebookpage for this thing.

(01:40:47):
Um, oh dear, it was the name of the clown was called gags.
Now the news networks were covering it, so I'm going to go
out on a limb and say that, you know, they were making, they
were joking about it and stuff like that ball but they didn't
know what was going to happen afterwards.

(01:41:08):
So shut up. So gags was actually made up to
promote a film titled. You guessed it gags.
It's on Amazon. Amazon Prime, I looked it up
when I was writing my notes on say, this actually does not seem
like a bad story, other premisesbasically.

(01:41:30):
Like there's this clown that shows up in Green Bay Wisconsin
and people were just thinking ohwell this is just a stupid
clown, you know. Creepy is the but really, it's a
killer creepy clown. But yeah.
Um, so this movie came out in 2018, like I said, I haven't
watched it yet. So this was two years before the

(01:41:51):
movie came out, they were tryingto promote it.
Okay. See that's the failure here.
Like, you got to like drop that like a couple weeks unless
you're like, Jordan Peele, who can just be like listen is going
to be a movie that comes out in a year and it's just it called.
Nope. Like everyone's I'm high.

(01:42:11):
I don't want this so bad. Listen I was so upset when I
realized that it said 2022 and not 2021.
I thought that movie was about to come out in like three days.
I was so excited but like if you're just a no-name Movie
Creator you can't drop the hint about the movie.
Two years before it comes out. I'm pretty sure.

(01:42:32):
Everybody forgot about that. It's about exactly what's in
people's memories are very Very,very short on the internet
goodness. Now, if you thought that was the
end of it, you're looking more foolish than a clown after.
I'm sorry, you're really trying to make these these clown gags

(01:42:53):
work here. I'm sorry.
I'm trying. Hmm.
So, after Wisconsin, sightings and the movie promo more and
more calm, sightings started to pop up from some.
Never knew about gags. Yeah, I just knew it.
Got weird. Yeah.
Mainly South Carolina to Canada,she the UK and even Australia,

(01:43:16):
oh, we're a lot of evil creatures live.
So right there, he clown, coconut crabs that are toxic, so
they can be eaten because they eat everything in existence and
have giant pincers. Yeah.
They don't, you know, they have they haven't damn spiders, that
attack Birds. They have birds that attack
people. We don't really need any clowns

(01:43:38):
Australia. Real life is scary.
So at this point you know clownsare all over the place.
Everybody's spotting clowns and stuff, right?
They got so bad WCA WCA the world Clown Association took
notice. I didn't know there was a

(01:43:59):
world-class Association. You were like WC.
I was like, yeah, I know it was funnier without and you know,
they said I'm against it like these clowns and I'm like, yo
and Reason why I did this is because these creepy clowns on
the side of the street, or seeing in parking, lots, or
stalking people. Oh, yeah, I may have seen videos

(01:44:20):
where people were like, in the woods, just hiking.
Yeah. And then on the path in front of
them, there's just a clown standing there.
The thing is that was a real person.
Yeah. Just real life trolling people
and like these clowns ruining itfor real clowns who work at
circuses or amusing. Parks are carnivals, you know?

(01:44:42):
Or they work at usually children's parties here honest,
I just don't find clowns all that interesting.
Except for the balloon animal thing, make me something cool
with a balloon animal. I'm here forever.
But I think it's maybe I'm because I'm an old person.
Like, I'm just like, But like, you know, y'all should be able
to make a living. So yeah.

(01:45:04):
So yeah, 2016 was like one of the worst times to be like a
professional clown, because o, because of all the freaking
clown, sightings is this is terrible.
It was terrible. They Nintendo by like after
Halloween. Yeah, it did.
It just dropped my, I'll get into that.
But it is really just dropped off, right at the Halloween.
And nobody knew what the fuck was going on.

(01:45:28):
So weird. So even sir, Ronald McDonald had
to step away from the Limelight for a little bit.
Wait, no, this is true. McDonald's change the mask.
No, no he just, you know, he just wasn't out in public I'll
like that anymore. You know, they mean he's just
worried you know because the clown is he out in public in

(01:45:48):
general I mean he's a is there are other locations where you
can like meet Ronald McDonald's.I don't think you can meet
Ronald McDonald and I'm pretty sure like the dress was my
favorite anyway. Then we Don was Playhouse
things. They have.
I think they had McDonald. They had a little statue statue
of Ronald McDonald. I would think so.
I was think they, that's what they did.

(01:46:09):
I just know that he had likes, that least, you know, the back
to him, they put him on a back burner, for a little bit.
Clown costumes were banned and pulled from stores like no
Spirit. Halloween could carry these?
It all ha. So people have to make their own
costumes if they wanted to be assholes.
Oh my God. And people like who work for

(01:46:33):
like theme parks, I'm used to Parks.
You know, they were, you know, makeup and stuff like, you know,
clowns. So I know like Halloween Horror
Nights. They have like the scary clown.
Yeah, the big giant teeth and stuff.
Exactly. And these people were warned,
like, you've got to, you got to make sure that stuff is off your
face before you leave work because you can't, like, just go
home and go. Oh, I'll wash it off.

(01:46:54):
Ya know you gotta wash up beforeyou clock out and all that stuff
because freely The building because people were out there
freaking out. Okay, what else?
Oh, so apparently there's supposed to be some type of
clown, Purge that happened to your 2016 like clowns are

(01:47:16):
supposed to start attacking people.
Oh right. Yeah, I do remember that.
Um, yeah. On Halloween Eve day before
Halloween night before. Halloween.
Whatever. Yeah.
All Hallows Eve. So Of course there wasn't like a
freaking long clown, Purge on Halloween Eve but I was just

(01:47:37):
about to ask to somebody die. No but on Halloween night there
was an attack. Okay.
Hmm. October 31st 2016, Jeff Brown
and his brother Tommy were out driving in their pickup truck
with their wives. Another adult woman.

(01:47:59):
Women and in total, five kids. Oh no, and this is this happened
Orange County East? Orange County.
Florida. Okay.
Change my whole mind there, you said, Orange County.
I thought California. So I'm guessing after a

(01:48:19):
successful night of trick-or-treating.
They're driving around, so they're driving home when they
spot about and say 20 people ahead I'm trying, you know, at
the crosswalk where they all clowns trying to push the
crosswalk button and um, you know, Jeff the hmm.

(01:48:42):
Well his Jeff's thought was thatyou know they were trying to
after the fact he thought they were trying to.
So you know the traffic, you know, The Pedestrian crosswalks,
you had a button you know, turn the light green or whatever.
Yeah. So his thought was was that they
were trying to push this button so they can make the traffic

(01:49:03):
like turn red for income coming cars.
So they could scare people attacked Them.
Not just scare people attack them.
So these people, these 20 peopleor about 20 people, they were
wearing clown masks and they were in purge masks as well.

(01:49:34):
Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's pink but
Jeff drill, right? He they didn't do it in time for
like the light turned red. So he just drove past them as he
drove past them. One of these, 20 people, throw
something at his truck. He, of course, you know, pulls

(01:49:57):
over to check out the damage to see if anybody was injured in
because he had the In his women in the back and his brother was
a front with him so he gets out to check damage.
Nothing is wrong, Airways fine but These 20 people freaking

(01:50:18):
swarm them, of course. He's from they swarm.
I don't know. I don't know.
They were these form him and hisbrother just wipes hops into the
driver's seat and tells her you're like go get help.
So you know, get the kids to safety.
Yeah. So you know, we're not here with
these people. So they drive off, please these

(01:50:43):
two guys against these 20 people, and they had hockey
sticks. He said, they had bats, they had
clubs, they had knives worried for Jeff.
Hmm. So Tommy gets knocked out or
knocked down by a hockey stick. I think I read in one of these

(01:51:04):
reports, he actually got stabbedto like, in the head with the
knife. Yes, thing.
And if you want to kill somebody, this was a good time
to do it. Probably in a clown costume.
Yeah, unfortunately, so yeah, Tommy gets you gets knocked down
and then he gets swarmed by morepeople.
Jeff, finally gets. He's able to break away and try

(01:51:27):
to get help, you know, try to goand get help.
So, he's like, Tommy is this there by himself?
Then, but I'm Jeff gets back, though, this whole mob has just
disappeared, Scary scary. Yeah.
So So the people who caused thisattack, this purge style attack

(01:51:52):
were thought to be teenagers because Jeff said he recognized
like a couple of them as teenagers in the neighborhood.
But I couldn't find any like arrest for engine hate that you
find this like really interesting news story and then
you can't find a follow-up. Like there was no nothing else

(01:52:14):
after this. I could not find any house after
this. So I'm going to assume that
nobody was arrested in this attack.
Hmm. But yeah.
Oh yeah, apparently, this is funny.
Creepy clowns were supposed to make a comeback last year. 2020,

(01:52:35):
I guess like won't take talked to her a couple videos I saw
creepy but you know, I guess even creepy clowns are afraid of
covid, so they did not come back.
But yeah, that's what I got for creepy clowns I got something
else though. Okay, yeah, I'm not done yet, I

(01:52:55):
guess I got some more. Okay, so, anyway, clown suck,
let's talk about something interesting.
He okay, let's talk about TV. Okay.
That's right. TV's aren't the rack your brain?
Yeah. They aren't a pinnacle of
entertainment. I mean, we have smartphones and

(01:53:17):
Tablets to, you know, Trail entertain us with and computers,
of course to. And, you know, every game is
what you need to be for that. Anyway, but so anyway.
Anyway, but something to watch something about watching like
cable TV is just nostalgic and speaking of TV, okay, and old

(01:53:39):
have you heard of TV? Head of what TV head?
No or TV, man. Okay, well if anybody else has
not talking about Fooly Cooly TVboy Conte.

(01:54:00):
But I'm talking about And almostSanta Claus type person who
wears an old television set on his head.
Is there a video of this? Yes, a CCTV video.
I didn't know you had a name. Yeah I thought it was just
somebody was like some weird guywas outside of my house last
night with a TV honesty. I didn't realize that this was a

(01:54:21):
name now. Yeah he has a personality.
Well it was just I guess that was the name TV head TV man.
Whatever they were trying to claim him.
Okay. Me as an old TV, TV set on his
head and he drops off owed television sets.
Yeah. To random people at night.
Where did this happen? No one knows why.

(01:54:43):
Now, they'll take care. Oh, this happened in Henrico
County Virginia. Okay.
So yeah, this didn't happen overworld is just it is one area.
Well, yeah, because that means that everybody would have had to
commit to a very strange I don'tknow like outfit that's just

(01:55:05):
weird. We'll get into that later.
Like it's probably not that easyto even find those old TVs
anymore. Well well the tube TVs, right?
Yeah. You don't have to have an actual
tube TV to make this head. How many people made this for
the following Halloween? Okay, okay, I need your answer,

(01:55:29):
just let me know. Apparently a lot of people So,
anyway, the weekend of August 2000, 1950 households in, like I
said, Henrico County, Virginia, wake up to fine.
Oh, TV sets, just sitting on their porches and TVs were
placed at a certain way. They were facing into, you know,

(01:55:53):
so that the people who open the door would see like their selves
in the TV screen, that's funny. This definitely reminds me of
that Sci-Fi show. We watched each one, the one
with the kids obsessed with thatTV show.
Oh Oh, you mean chemical? Yeah.
Okay, yeah. So a few home security cameras,

(01:56:17):
caught glimpses of this person or these people.
This is a group thing was a Duo as a team.
I think it was, it was a team and it was to, at least two,
people always thought it was thesame guy.
No, no, no. This one guy he were he was
taller. He had like a white jumpsuit on.
Okay? All the guy had like a blue
jumpsuit on a little shorter? yeah, you know, a person or

(01:56:42):
people wearing televisions sets on their head, delivering TVs,
the gift of television, Now the old televisions, there's what?
Yeah there there's I know, right?
I would have soda still taking it, okay?
Right is going to accept this gift.
I have an old TV set not home, but it's in the garage but yeah,

(01:57:05):
it's a big old. It has like At the at when this
one was made, I guess didn't have like a cooling the way they
cool TVs. Was it like they put some mint
in the bottom of it but I'm not about that so that you know it
won't overheat and so this TV isextremely heavy that I have it.

(01:57:27):
Yeah sure. Sounds like like I can pick it
up a little bit but already bud like my muscles like I can't
pick it up so high. I'm picking up a little bit and
then put it on something but that's about it.
My mom. Yeah.
So one of the the CTR the doorbell camera videos that I

(01:57:51):
loved the ring light, right? Yeah the Rings.
Yeah. Was one of the TV guys heat
sets. You know he sets the TV down,
he's carrying on reports. He said, sit down you know you
just hits and makes it further is facing properly nice and
gingerly he does it very, very nice.
And then, you know, he starts walking down the stairs and he

(01:58:13):
turns around looks right at the camera and he just you know, he
waves at the camera and just youknow, walks off.
Hmm. Less creepy.
Like this is like a complete contrast to freaking clowns
true. Because I'm less bothered by
this because this guy is just like out having fun.

(01:58:35):
Yeah, exactly. Like, I mean, I guess the clouds
were out having fun too. Hey, but they were having fun in
the malicious kind of way. Yeah.
This was like they attack people.
Yeah, they were out to scare. Who will this guy is not out to
scary? We just out to deliver
television sets. For some reason.

(01:58:57):
So yeah, either way the cops were called soon and they
started collecting TVs up you know the go recycle them.
So no charges were pursued. Since no real crime was
committed right? Except for like I guess the cop
said it would be considered likeillegal dumping.

(01:59:18):
Yeah. Because at this time like you
know how we're supposed to recycle those old TV sets,
instead of just drawing them away.
Now, mhm. So yeah that's the thing.
So did you know That no, you didn't know.
So I'm going to let you know. There are a lot of cosplayers

(01:59:38):
who have. So this is not like a cause not
only a cosplay. This is like a whole somebody's
made a webtoon about this by nowit's a whole what's the word for
like a community of it's just a whole community of people and
they're called object heads. Oh.
So I guess it started way. Before this happened.

(01:59:59):
These objects heads were just TVfriends.
Yeah. So Objects, I guess this
happening. He doesn't like yeah, we both
live in the same city. Let's get weird.
Yo probably I guess like to start this hardened like 2011 or
object, heads were like a big and popular.
Like like, I don't know, just have like a microphone for you.

(02:00:22):
I like siren head ich. Habe not creepy.
But, yeah, like I said, yeah, Fooly Cooly, have you watched
that? And I met.
Okay. Anyways, watchfully Cooley, it's
awesome. I'm just saying, is there's a
robot, honor, his name's Conte. He has a freaking monitor as

(02:00:43):
ahead. Yeah.
And And like I said, a lot of cosplayers, they'd use the TV
had nothing and like, I was whatI think I was watching like
either YouTube or freaking Tick-Tock and I just, I was
like, what the heck is that? What they're friggin TV heads?
Like I remembered this story butI was like, this has I have

(02:01:05):
anything to do with that. Does it not really?
I think it's just like a Whole, it's a whole separate world.
Yes, two people mother Branch off.
Giveaway TVs. And honestly, I kind of want one
just because just shake her headand he's awesome looking.
Anyway, that is what I have for.My weirdness is weak.

(02:01:31):
I hope you guys enjoyed it. Yeah, that's something creepy
clowns and awesome TV, guys dropping off TVs.
We hope you enjoyed this episodeand yeah, yeah.
We do appreciate every single one of you for listening.
And to those who support us on patreon, we love you so much.

(02:01:56):
And like, pretty set on top of the show.
You want to support as a breach,you're on.
It's patreon.com slash when couples get caught.
Yep. You can basically donate
whatever you want if you want to.
Oh allegations. And if you want to check us out
on when it comes to get caught.com, that's where we have
our complete episode list and then we have a shop on there and

(02:02:20):
you can leave comments on the episode solutely eagerly reviews
there too if you want to. Yeah, and I guess find me on
tape. Yes.
Cop podcast. Brian is Foxy trainer on Twitch
stream Sunday nights. Yes, yes, yes, yes.
And I think that's it. Can't wait to see you.

(02:02:41):
Thank you guys for listening. Bye.

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