Andrea Yates: Strangely Sympathetic and Local Legends

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:20):
Hey everybody. Its serial killer country.
My name is Brittany. Ransom, my name is Brian jr.
And this is what Killers get caught.
A podcast devoted to deep dives into the lives and psyches The
Killers. We love to learn about each
week, Brian. And I find a True Crime Story
that resonated with us and then I discussed one, well-known or
lesser known killer, I go deeperinto their childhood lives

(00:42):
methodology, and most importantly how and why they got
caught and then we get a little spooky, we learned something
about Cryptids or the supernatural.
Keep it kind of light after the lately very depressing stories
that I've been talking about Yes.

(01:03):
Yeah, that's really the general consistency of things lately and
it's not going to change tonight.
If you've clicked on this podcast, you already know what
this is about. Yeah, we're sorry.
Yeah, it's it's heavy but uh I guess there's sort of a
reasoning that goes along with it.
I don't don't you dare. Don't you dare that's have a

(01:26):
greater conversational situationbut before we even get into the
subject of tonight's podcast, let's instead talk about this
week in True Crime. Something really cool was not
cool. It's such a weird thing when
stuff like this happens So, I don't know if you know who Fred
and rosemary West are Brian. No, I did, Kanye West's parents

(01:50):
and now they were a killer couple from the UK who were
particularly horrible to young girls, including some of their
own children. But in the 1960s, there was a
girl who suspected of being one of their victims and she has

(02:11):
been missing since 68 and they've never been able to find
it Fred West, they think that Fred Killed her because he also
did some gross stuff separate from his wife sometimes they
work together. Sometimes I work separate very
of course, Ian Brady Myra. Hey yeah.
Funny enough the to both Myra and rosemary were in the same

(02:34):
prison. And there were rumors that they
were well robbers. Yeah, yeah.
And also enemies. So yeah, this is the same woman.
Well, police Nice. Okay, so it's it's the city in
Gloucester, Gloucester Gloucester UK and they think

(02:59):
that they have found the bones of one of his victims.
Okay. Who has been missing since 1968
like all his victims were young women?
They both had very weird fixations on brutalizing women
in many different ways Rape torture bondage, you name it.
They were typically buried in the cellar of their home and

(03:23):
Glock is Stir which that was referred to in the media.
As like the House of Horrors. They were charged in 1994 and
Fred hung himself while he was in prison in 1995, to avoid
being charged with the nine women who were discovered on
their property. Of course.
Yeah. But yeah.
So that's the news that's like This is today.

(03:47):
So they're thinking it might be her body.
They think it might be her body May 17 21 like this is happening
this week. Nice.
This is like pipe quite possibly.
I'm like the first time but yeah.
They have some ground-penetrating cameras and
they appear to have discovered this like dark blue material

(04:09):
that they think matched the coatof her name was Mary bastogne.
She was 15 when she went missing.
Oh, and yeah. This is 39.
Well, it's this comes days afterthis, like police force of like
39, different cops, led by a team of archaeologists began.

(04:31):
Analyzing the basement of a cafeand God caster, which is about
half a mile from the West's house.
And essentially, Like West worked there when it was being
built. So they think that he might have
stored that's at this point. They're like, well, maybe some

(04:51):
of the bodies, we haven't been able to find from him, are ones
that he might have buried at some of the locations where he
worked right when he was a builder.
And that's not exactly somethingcrazy.
Because there was a man in California who they think buried
bodies under highways, that he worked on in the 70s and That

(05:13):
California has discussed the idea of trying to find those
bodies but also that the costs but is so prohibitive that they
might just leave them there. So, I mean, this isn't entirely
in heard of, but yeah, they had cameras that have seen like a
navy blue coat that she was wearing and they definitely
think that they're seeing human bones there.
So I mean, they're at this point.

(05:34):
Now they're going to be looking at doing like a major excavation
right? Yeah.
But yeah. And of course, his wife is
still, of course, in jail. Yeah.
She's she's only 67. So she got plenty of years to be
in prison and be dealing with the crimes that she committed

(05:55):
and yeah, that's good. But yeah, it's like I was really
excited when that popped up on my feet today I was like oh crap
Serial killer do is we have it had some new serial, killer news
and months. It's gonna be on every podcast
that any of you listen to this week.
That's how like hype most of us are going to be about But what

(06:17):
did you come across this week? Okay, let me ask you a question.
Sure. So for example, How would, how
would you go about getting followers or you have followers
on your Tick? Tock, like, if like, if you had

(06:40):
to go out and like, I don't know, like, if you were like low
on views and follows, how would you Brittany?
Go out and find followers for Tick-Tock.
I, I wouldn't go out and invite Tic-Tac followers because I
would be, I'm strangely shy in person.
You don't say so, The only thingI know how to do is what I do

(07:02):
right now which is make daily content and hope hope somebody
likes it. Okay?
Okay. Well, there is a woman in
Florida, Miami who posed as a student to promote her Instagram
page. If you ain't saw this, somebody

(07:25):
posted this on Twitter and it showed up in our feet of like
People who we follow on Twitter,like one of those crime news
aggregate blog thing. Yeah, I didn't click on it.
Please tell me more about this lady.
All right. So apparently she's 28 years old
and she wanted to promote her Instagram page and she attempted

(07:46):
to blend in with students at a Miami area high school.
Wasn't there? A Drew Barrymore movie where she
went back to the high school? Yeah she was a reporter was
reporter. Yeah but still and everything
kiss. We're having right?
Right. That's it.
That's get something like that, done.
Like that with this. Good enough?
Yeah. But yeah, this happened.

(08:08):
I guess, I last Monday. Wow, so yeah, sure.
It landed her in jail. So she's facing charges of
burglary and it fearing with a school function and resisting
arrest without violence. So let me read this.
So she started hitting at her name, is who I can't pronounce

(08:31):
that last name. Goodness gracious.
Oh, it's her name is Audrey. Francisco!
Whitney. Yeah, I'm going with that.
Yes. Uh-huh.
So apparently she started handing out pantless at you
know, for her Instagram. Okay.
You can't do that. That's not how you.
Yes, not cool. Can you imagine being like, what

(08:54):
is the equivalent of when we were in high school of the
person who hands Pamphlets abouttheir Instagram recruiters,
these look like that. It's even worse because that's a
hey, sign up for potentially diefor college.
Yeah, no I'm trying to think of like what would have been
equally as uncool as handing outa pamphlet for your social
media. Oh, putting up flyers and I feel

(09:16):
like, yeah. A flyer for a party.
Yeah. At a high school.
That would have been like cringy.
Let me tell you for like, we hadthis one.
Like and Senior year, right? Okay.
So seeing you here, I'm just like comedian now.
Okay, this is my Persona. I've taken along because I'm
funny as guy anyway, I think you're funny.

(09:37):
Oh, my one teacher, she suggested that I like start an
improv group of people. So I put up flyers for like
improv, okay. That's different cause that's
like a school function if our school functions but can you
imagine was like there's gonna be a rager at Brian's house.
Here's a flyer like Say those kinds of words and no, no, I

(10:00):
just pulled like a total like 80s phrase, out of nowhere.
I'm not that old y'all. We didn't have ragers but I'm
just saying that's how the equivalent of leg you you
handing someone a flyer to come to your party tomorrow?
Yeah. It feels awkward like like hey
come to my party. Hey come to my party.
He's like listen you can come don't tell anybody else and then

(10:22):
of course everybody shows up because no one could keep a
secret in high school. This is how that goes, yeah,
sure trip. But yeah, she snuck on the
campus at 8:30 a.m. she had a black backpack, and she carried
a skateboard. She walking the whole shoe
recording herself as she was doing this.

(10:44):
She had a black backpack. If she cares game for, she act
like a total like I guess that'swhat she taught high schoolers.
I don't, how old is she 28 28? Come on now.
No, no, no. Even when that cause that's only
a couple years younger than Us and like I don't nobody was
wearing not even when we were Highschool.
No, nobody was you. I mean okay.
Skateboard. Yes, very 90s.

(11:05):
Like, okay, when we were in school, people dress like
skaters. Yeah, but they didn't like skate
through the hallways of the school.
That's very like movie 90s movies Centric.
But like, yeah, sure. Like people wore like skater
clothes, like, one of my co-workers, got his like, very
cool like skater Vibes. Like, I'm like, this is
obviously, like, who he is outside of work and I'm a, you

(11:25):
know, Bryant. I'm a giant fruit Pop-Tart of a
person. This is Lisa.
It like, you know, yet Lisa Frank.
These are frankly staff Rankin, Miss frazil.
That's really what I work with as you so you know like we all
have little bits of that like from our high school identities,
you do who we are now. But like I don't think even

(11:46):
people who were skateboarders like Tony Hawk.
He is a skateboarder, he's not like oh let me walk through this
area with my board on my arm like it.
But yeah. So apparently let's see.
What is this? A school security tracked her

(12:07):
down? As she wandered hallways while
students were in their classrooms and she was heading
towards the registration office but she did not enter instead
she continued walking through the hallways talking to students
news outlets reported. So she never went to any
classes. No, no, of course not.
You have to act like you're actually in high school You're
trying to act like you're in high school. 28.

(12:28):
Come on now. I'm free.
I mean she could probably like at 18 years old.
I need to I need to know what she looks like.
Now I don't think there's a picture of her.
I could have sworn. It was a picture.
Okay, not on this one. I got this one off the
Associated. Press press.
But as she kept walking securityofficers, still try to catch up
with her. You know, that's bad.
That's like it's terrible because Like that's shorter.

(12:52):
I don't know. Like nowadays, you know, what?
School shooters and stuff like that.
You can't just be like I have like little logins.
Exact, thanks to open doors, like you can't just be walking
in the schools like that. Like, that's not okay.
What'd she look like you could give me a face.
She looks like a mother of three.
Oh, come on. Yeah, the guy high school
student Advocate teenager. Come on.

(13:15):
Oh my god. Listen and I get it.
Hispanic and black people aged very well.
But, huh? Honey, you look like you have at
least one or two babies. Yeah.
Apparently the school system is going through.
They're going to be reviewing how she got into the school.
She got onto the property, you know, and was able to evade

(13:39):
security settings brand, they don't they don't run.
They just kind of jump my God. It but yeah, it was just like
it's hilarious. And then finally authorities
tracked, her down for her Instagram page.
Interested her of Monday last Monday at her house.
Oh man. So she got away from the
security officers in school but she got she went home and then

(14:01):
he found her anyway through her Instagram that she.
You know, she was trying to promote.
I want to see her Instagram. I bet it's Wack.
He kind of look up her face, I don't know.
I bet you if I pulled this up onReddit, somebody found her over.
I think about it now she probably has like a million
followers. I feel like she probably has a
bunch of Of gems ears and her comment roast in her.

(14:23):
Yeah. Probably.
They just roast all of us. I mean, that's like she did have
a side part though. Oh she does see we have a side.
Part was a side parting. No, it was.
My parts are bad and so are skinny jeans.
Damn her damn Millennials. Then our what you gonna do?
Let us live our lives. I'm good.

(14:46):
That's a thing. People are like, I'm like, this
is our I hate to say and that situation that happened with
Millennials versus Zoomers. It was people were like side
parts of skinny jeans. I'm like, this seems like a
thing that like, I hate to say it this way, but it seems like a
thing that like, the white people are arguing about because
amongst like, the minority community.

(15:07):
No one's like trash talking likeZoomers.
Know, we're more. Like, I like your style.
Pretty cool. Yeah, your hair's dope like you
didn't he like it's all very like Good Vibes in our
community. I don't know why.
I like all the white Zoomers andMillennials are fighting right
now. Y'all need to stop.
Oh no. I know.
I know those gen Z kids. They do love my hair now so you

(15:29):
have magnificent hair. I do have wonderful beautiful
hair. It's a dollar to touch by the
way, you better charge one. That's right, no paid a mick.
Pandemic fee, there you go. Five extra dollars.
Oh my God. When Killers get caught is

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Brittany that I sent you. So let's get through this
horrible story, you talking about, it's not okay there's
just a little bit of horribleness which is, you know,
the whole parent killing their children aspect.

(17:31):
But so this happened when I was probably this would have been
before I started High School. Okay.
This sort of been like spring ofa, the grade for me, you say I
you mean we don't know. I wasn't sure if I could
remember. I was like technically a year
ahead. And because I have a late

(17:51):
birthday. Dear me?
Yes. Yes.
It's a year of school but we're like Danny of the same age.
Yeah, but yeah. So I'm just going to, I'm going
to set a stage And I'll go into more about these people.
Okay? So it was approximately 10 a.m.
June 20th 2001, A Man, by the name of Rusty Gates.
Gets a phone call from his wife,he'd only been at work for about

(18:14):
an hour. She just said, you need to come
home confused. He was just like what's going on
and she's like, you need to comehome, it's time, I did it.
He knew that she'd been struggling recently and dealing
with her depression and so he asked her again, what's wrong?
And she said it's the children. And the NASA engineer realized

(18:41):
something was very wrong. And he said, which one and which
Andrea Yates responded? All of them.
Oh, when he reached his house, 15 minutes later, they were
ambulances. And police cars at his home in
Houston, Texas. A Time article said that when he

(19:02):
wasn't allowed into the house, he went to the back door and
screamed. How could you do this?
Collapse in the yard and the fetal position pounding, the
ground as his wife. Andrea Yates was led away in
handcuffs today. I am discussing a crime.
Like I said, I didn't happen that long ago for both you and I
the case surrounding Andrea Gates and the murder of her five

(19:25):
children on June 20th, 2001. It was a bit of a landmark case
and trial surrounding the discussion of real.
Mental health issues for mothersin a state known to Be very
aggressive in handling it handing out Capital sentences
for murder but like every week before I discuss the crime and

(19:49):
inevitably the lengthy and convoluted trial, let's just
talk about Andrea Yates and who she was before this day.
I found her strangely sympathetic and I didn't expect
to you, okay? I heard she's born Andrea Pia.

(20:11):
Kennedy on July 2nd, 1964 and Hallsville Texas.
She was born to German immigrantkuta, jutta, Karen Koller and
Andrew and Mike. Kennedy who is second generation
Irish that you had five childrenand Andrea was their youngest
They were a devout Catholic Family and Andrea was very

(20:32):
active in church and Charities. As a young child, she was
incredibly considered to be very, very smart.
But her troubles with her mentalhealth began, rather Young Some
people speculate that it's kind of like what happens with a lot
of teenagers. You're very smart driven,

(20:53):
super-active. You feel this pressure to be
perfect? She was in like the National
Honor Society. She graduated from high school
as for valedictorian and of course, doing really knows when
you're struggling with that. Kind of stuff that behind that
like perfect facade is somebody who's struggling to look perfect

(21:14):
and also be perfect. Right?
Right. So she did struggle with both
bulimia and depression and actually was suicidal.
When she was in high school, shedid not receive treatment for
any of these issues while she was a child and very much
endured a lot. a lot of these things in silence, I can't say
that at that time in our historythat there would have been a

(21:40):
whole lot of resources for her either.
No. After High School, she applied
to the University of Houston to become a nurse, perhaps kind of
free from some of that parental stress.
She didn't struggle as much withher mental health in college.
She finished her program and just two years and accepted a
job at the MD Anderson Cancer, Center caring for cancer

(22:02):
patients. It was part of the medical
facility, that was attached to her school and she would work
there her entire career as a nurse from 1986 to 1994.
As somebody who had really serious body image issue, she
didn't really date a whole lot but she met her future, husband,
Rusty Gates, and the summer of 1989, she was swimming at the

(22:25):
pool in her apartment complex and he saw her and liked her as
many young men are want to do ofcourse.
Yes, they move it together. Fairly shortly after that, a
couple months later, and Rusty. Said that his name is Russell,
but I will continue to call him Rusty as they do.
And all of the books that I readon this, He said that she was

(22:50):
always very uncomfortable being naked around him, she would get
dressed and undressed in the closet and she never seemed to
enjoy sex. Some people say that this is due
to her Catholic upbringing and you know, extremely religious
families can be very overbearingwhen it comes to young women.
Sexualities other people have brought up that this could also

(23:11):
be a symptom of mental illness. That was also overlooked rather
early in her. I guess her young, adult life
personally, I can't imagine feeling very sexy when your
boyfriend is into the religious stuff that Rusty was in two.
And I know I need to go into this because Shapes who this

(23:32):
woman becomes so Rusty. Was a big follower of this
preacher named Michael warneke who was a traveling preacher.
That was big into like the fire and brimstone, you know?
And of course like it's hard to know with all the different
preachers like this in the 80s and 90s.
Like this was a big deal for a long time.

(23:52):
They were like be on TV on Sunday and those big mega
churches. Those kinds of people in the
freaking, like, turd something. Does mega church creators.
I don't think we're in a key created like a mega church but
he did have the same kind of fundamental most views.
So Michael and Rusty met during the 80s and the two started

(24:13):
writing letters back and forth to each other and they kind of
became sort of religious friends.
And we're Nicky had some very horrible views about women.
He preached that women were evilwitches and they were born evil
because of Eve that women shouldn't educate themselves.

(24:34):
They should never work outside of the home and should never use
birth control. Wives should submit to their
husbands fully. And you know that old adage we
were taught as kids, children should be seen and not heard
totally believe in that too. Uh-huh.
And if you needed to keep your child silent.
Absolutely. You know what's that Fraser?
You don't spare the rod spoil the child.

(24:55):
Yeah that that was part of his ideology to.
Yeah. Opens.
So Rusty comes into this relationship with this intense
fundamentalist, Christian Vibe and introduces Andrea to it.
And strangely enough, the two ofthem spend like a lot of their
free time just studying the Bible and praying when they live
together. Rusty, was very serious about

(25:18):
his religion, his relationship with Andrea and so he actually
introduced her to warneke weirdly enough.
We're in a key, gave them solid advice and was like, you
shouldn't get married quickly, which was apparently, a lot of
the advice he gave to young couples, he met on college
campuses, which is so wild because I was, like, here's

(25:38):
this, And with this horrible crazy, like religious message,
given actual dollops of good advice here and there.
Yeah, like know, when you are 22, you definitely probably
shouldn't get married. No, don't do it Andrea.
And Rusty, did not take the preachers advice and instead it

(25:59):
got married. Two years later.
April 17th 1983. Well doing it very quickly, they
waited two years for them. I think this was probably, as I
They waited as long as they possibly could, as long as they
want, yeah, they're like this. Give us some time, okay.
Okay, you good. Yeah, they were, like, you know,
he's like, wait, longer they were, like, no, we had this.
We waited long enough to years is long enough who enter our

(26:22):
lives to be together. Come on now.
But, you know, what's so funny? I went to a Catholic High School
and I distinctly have a very solid memory of one of my
religion classes. I think it was sophomore year
for some reason. My one religion teacher like
went off on a rant about how youshouldn't, just get married to
have sex. And one of the boys in my class
raised his hand and he was just like, then, why get married.

(26:45):
Ha ha ha and mind you. We were 15 and 16 years old.
So, of course, in a 15 and 16 roll brain, that makes sense.
But I have a friend who's very religious and she goes on like
Christian Mingle and stuff. And there are a lot of people
with this mindset, like I just have to get married so I can
just start having sex. Yeah, because it's not.
Okay for me to do it outside of that.

(27:07):
So like maybe that was part. Out of this to like why they
were rushing and why he was telling so many of his
followers, like, don't rush intothis, they'll be plenty of time
for you, do all the things you want to do in your life and
then, you know, people are just like, well, I can't do what I
want, ha ha ha, because God, what was it?
Let's be because, yeah, I'll be a sinner and go to hell.

(27:28):
Oh, no. Because like, they literally
told their wedding guests that they wanted as many babies as
nature would allow season. That's order thinking about,
that's all they were thinking ofgive me.
That's why I said that, of course, now, married to Rusty,
Andrea, quits her job as a nurse, and she gets immediately
pregnant with their son. Noah, he was born February 1994

(27:50):
and almost immediately after hisbirth, Andrea begins, having
visions of knives and stabbing her loved ones.
She also heard voices but she kept this to herself, Down to
one income, they have to move from their nice four-bedroom
house in Houston to a trailer inSeminole, Florida for a temp

(28:12):
job, that Rusty took and like this is the, the not smartness
of this whole concept of the manneeds to be the provider.
Exactly. I absolutely support the idea
that a man as a provider. If he's got the job to provide
for this family. Exactly.
And I'm just like, you going to make me, give up my job and now

(28:32):
we broke. This is terrible.
And as soon as you like it don'thave kids.
Thank you. All right, you got all this
money. You got to spend on this now but
either way. Exactly, from four bedroom to a
trailer. Come on.
I mean it's nothing wrong. Trailers at all because there's
some nice. That's a nice one.
Oh, hell yeah. I know leopard trailers are
nicer than what I live in but now I Like they move into this

(28:55):
really actually, from what I understand the trailer was
smaller than the apartment. We are in right now.
Oh damn. And this apartment is 410 square
feet and it's a studio. Oh, so the one that you're in
right now, we're yeah. There's was 350.
That that trailer and she had two more babies.

(29:16):
No. Yes, she did.
Two more sense. I December of 1995.
John was born, and then September of 1887 Paul was born,
so that's Mom. A toddler.
A baby and a newborn and Dad andan apartment smaller than where

(29:39):
we are right now, they all sleepin the same bed, I've had one
person, stay the night with me over the like weekend here and
it's cramped. Like you like one more than one
day and all of a sudden, I'm like, you need to go home.
I just can't imagine two adults and three kids in this space.
No, just imagine having to sleepin the same bed, kids kicking

(30:02):
your ribs and your backing like smacking you in the face when
you're trying to sleep. What I live with my sister, I
used to watch like we work different shifts.
So I work during the day and sheworked at night and her son, I
would like sleep, I would like lay in bed next to him.
I could never sleep comfortably.You want this baby next to me?
I was convinced. He was going to fall out the Ed.

(30:24):
I was going roll over him and kill him.
Like something was going to happen, that's bad.
It was constantly me like nodding off for a couple minutes
and then waking up and looking at them.
And then fall back asleep and waking up at looking.
It was the most unknown like restful sleep of my life
watching. This Nike six-month-old baby,

(30:45):
they were hurt. You believe me and he was hot,
he's always hot. I really have any would somehow
may. I should take up like half of a
full size bed. Yeah, are so small.
What is wrong with you? Yeah, that's what they do.
But back on to Andrea and Rusty,they kept up with the war in a
key family through letters and videos.

(31:06):
Um, and for some reason, MichaelWernicke kept diagnosing Andrea
as evil and telling her that herlife was cursed.
I really couldn't find a reason for this and like I went through
a lot of sources. I've heard two different books
for this but then you say you said, well women are evil and he
did say all women are even, but like I felt like it was almost

(31:27):
like Like personal. like I can only imagine what kind of effect
this must have been having on Andrea because Michael is like
the leader of this little churchand he set himself up to be like
the voice of God and she's getting constant messages from
the voice of God saying that Godhates you like So, 98 the gates

(31:50):
family visits the war in a keys in Miami, because Michaels gonna
sell his motor home. And by motor home, I mean, a
Greyhound bus that he converted into a little apartment to
travel across the country and preach from.
They stay there for about a weekand during that time, Michael
and Rusty got into a fight in another stunning bit of wisdom.

(32:14):
Michael said that Rusty was neglecting his family for his
Year and sacrificing his wife and children.
Hmm, Rusty. Did not agree that leaving
Andrea with a newborn toddler and preschool or every day in a
tiny house. Was it all bad?
No, not at all and Rusty. Michael kind of stopped being

(32:34):
friendly after this, russki Rusty, like talked about this
later on and like said that theylike drifted apart, but it seems
like he wasn't open to even a religious figure telling him
that he need to be a better husband and father.
Oh my God. So you weren't trying to change.
You just want to have kids and just keep doing what you're

(32:55):
doing. Basically after they bought the
mobile home, they moved back to Houston to put it, simply Andrea
was overwhelmed. She had to home-school the
oldest boy. Breastfeed keep a toddler
occupied feed. Her family, wash cloth diapers
to save money. She was also caring for her own

(33:15):
father who had Alzheimer's Oh no.
Friends of their family of the family.
Tried to tell Rusty. This is too much for one person
to handle, but he wouldn't listen and he was just like,
this is Andrews job as a wife and a mother.
Well yeah, they were still following the Wernicke's church
and Andrea was still receiving guidance from them that she need

(33:37):
to beat her children more often.And that, like, normal child
behavior was disrespectful. They also were consistently
telling her that like not hitting her kids.
Was damning them to Hell. Well then I guess my kids are
going to have right Andrea had therefore child Luca February of

(33:58):
1989. When Luke was four months old
and recalled Rusty and was just like I can't take this when
Rusty got home. She was sitting in the corner
like in an almost catatonic State she'd been chewing on her
fingers for hours. Rusty was like you know we
should do we're gonna take a nice family walk on the beach.
Beach, that'll fix, you know andum, seeing as Rusty's, not at

(34:21):
all, a mental health, professional the next day, she
attempted to kill herself for the first time she was admitted
to hospice. She, I think she tried to use
her father's medicine to have anoverdose.
She was admitted to a hospital and prescribed antidepressants.
This was the first time in her life that she was diagnosed with
major depressive disorder, the whole Hospital wanted to hold

(34:44):
her longer to see if the meds were going to have some help.
But unfortunately, as anybody, who has been on where they
ssris, I think it's what their official term is for them, but
there are serotonin receptor Inhibitors.
I think called ssris these take weeks to take effect.

(35:06):
Oh, in fact, one of the things Itell you, when you're on them
because I also have major depressive disorder.
They ask like my doctors would ask, like, repeatedly are you
feeling suicidal? Here's why, because you're
inside a really dark place and you get this medication and it
starts working on your brain, right?
But it takes such a long time topull you out and like

(35:27):
essentially, like kind of give your brain the serotonin that
it's needing, right? That sometimes you only feel
like sort of good, you don't feel like real good yet but you
feel like good enough that if you are suicidal you might
decide to actually do it. Oh yes.
You've got enough motivation. Now to hurt.

(35:48):
Yourself, but not enough motivation to go to work or
clean. Your house will be motivations
you not doing in this. It's one of the things that is,
it's part of the warnings. So that repeatedly, they were
like, you have more energy now, don't you Brittany?
And I was like, yes, you're not see, they were like constantly
checking with me, so then they should have done here.

(36:12):
Because they sent her home because her insurance didn't
cover any more inpatient days, some of that's going to be a
consistent thing that pops up atThis Woman's life insurance.
But her insurance limiting, the amount of care she can access,
lovely. She did briefly visit with
another doctor who put her on ananti-psychotic drug.

(36:37):
But the Warren Equis believe that medicine and drugs were the
tool of the devil. So she flushed them come on
before. She could even really know
whether this was going to help her.
Oh my God, things got worse for Andrea.
She was pulling out her hair andclumps picking at her skin until
it bled. The voices that come back.

(36:58):
She'd stopped eating entirely one night, Rusty came home from
work and he found Andrea holdinga knife to her throat and she
was begging. Being Rusty to let her and her
life. She was hospitalized again and
given an antipsychotic medicine was called, like Haldol.

(37:19):
This is the one that had the best effect on her.
She approved immediately and they said home friends.
And family were like, this is definitely the bus you living on
this stupid bus with four children is causing trouble.
So Rusty bought a three-bedroom house in clear Texas.
And for a little bit of time, Andrew was doing, all right.

(37:41):
She was seeing a doctor bi-weekly.
She had a washer and dryer, she was on good medication.
Yes, they are on the up-and-up doctors work, couldn't they
were? They thought that this was
postpartum, depression, made worse by her, major depressive
disorder, and the gates were advised, they should either

(38:02):
abstain, for set from sex, or Andrea should stay on birth
control. They did actually opted to
ignore the church and go on birth control, right?
But they didn't stick with this very long.
Yeah. You know what would help?
What him? Get a goddamn vasectomy.

(38:24):
No. Because remember they want
babies but there's supposed to be a controlled, get a goddamn
vasectomy. You got enough kids already.
Nope not enough. So one of the things we know now
is that women who Suffer from postpartum already higher risk
of getting in again during subsequent pregnancies and the
episodes tend to get worse each,with each pregnancy, Andrea was

(38:49):
on the way to recovery, but another birth would absolutely
destroy the progress. She had made.
So they were advised. You should stop having kids
right now. Give it a couple years.
You're still pretty young, you know, let Andrea get more
stable. Do you want to know how quickly
they decided that they should have another kid?
This is a week later. Seven weeks.

(39:10):
After she was discharged, God, Rusty kind of looked at it.
Andrea's mental illness and postpartum and the suicide
attempts is like kind of like her having the flu and that's
literally a direct quote, just like the flu.
Come on. His thought was, if she relapses
has, we'll just go back to the hospital and get new maps.
No, that's not how it works, though.

(39:31):
It's not how that works and that's definitely something he
In realize which is that like the kind of medications that
she's on take a while to set in and she's going to have to come
off of them to get pregnant and going off of these meds, very
quickly is very dangerous. Yeah, I can imagine so yes, she
stopped taking her medication, seven weeks, after being
discharged from the hospital in 2000, and she had her fifth

(39:54):
child Mary in November of 2000. Oh, finally a girl.
She, she actually seemed to be doing, all right?
Though there was like a weird situation where she tried to
feed like a very young baby, real food and the baby like
start choking. I don't know why she was doing
that but also like this is a woman clearly in distress.

(40:16):
Yeah, but March 2001, Andrea's father dies.
She starts picking at her skin, pulling out her hair again,
ignoring her own health for the next few months.
She's in and out of psychiatric facilities.
On a revolving door of medicines, trying to find the
right combination here. Doctors, tell Rusty, do not

(40:38):
leave. Andrea alone at all.
Something that Rusty ignored. He arranged for his mother to
come and watch the kids with Andrea, but he still left her
alone for small. Bouts of time.
He thought that she would becomedependent on him and his mother
for help with her wifely duties.Dude, they told you not to leave

(40:59):
her alone for a reason April 2001.
She began seeing a new doctor. His name is dr.
Mohammad Sayeed a month after that.
May 3rd, 2001. She regresses to almost a
catatonic State. When afternoon Rusty's mom, her
name is Dora Yates finds her. She had filled the The bathtub

(41:21):
in the middle of the afternoon and when Dora was like, what's
the bathtub for? She is just like I just wanted
to of course later on Andrea would say that that was enough,
that was a day that she had intended on killing the children
but she changed her mind. She and tell her children that

(41:43):
at all. I shouldn't tell the doctors at
it. Of course, of course she was
hospitalized. Again, the next day, the
psychiatrist there are met for thought she was suicidal and
they thought that the tub had been for her.
Rusty was useless and actually, quite frustrating through this
whole process. He actually told Andrea at one

(42:04):
point that she should think happy thoughts.
I'm gonna punch you in the nuts.Three common phrase of
neurotypical. People who do not understand how
any of this works at. All right, there you can Sucker
Punch right in your boys. Yeah.
God, he's super, super frustrating.
Andrea continued to see, dr. Syed.
Until June 20th 2001. When she was arrested that De

(42:27):
Rossi left for work. He left her alone to watch the
children, which was directly against sites.
Instructions Rusty's. Mother Dora was scheduled to get
there at 10:00 a.m. to help her for the rest of the day.
So Rusty, was only going to be gone for an hour.
They could have stayed that damnour I think so too.

(42:48):
This is the part where I'm goingto explain what happens?
I have no issue with you. Skipping over like the next like
Four minutes. To anyone listening?
Yeah. She filled the bathtub with
water and she drowned a five year old John first, then she

(43:11):
carried him. Hugh her and Rusty's bedroom,
laid him on the bed, covered himwith the sheet, she did this
again to Paul who was three, Luke who was too and then six
month old Mary while she was in the process of drowning, Mary
Noah walked into the bathroom. He was now 7 and he was like,
what's wrong with Barry? Little boy, tried to run away,

(43:34):
but Andrea caught him and drowned him to.
She left his body in the tub andtook Mary and laid him in John's
arms. Andrew called the police.
The I actually saw the transcript of the call to the

(43:59):
police. It was very weird.
She was just like, I need him tocome and they were like the 911.
Operators, like, who, who do youneed to come?
And she's like, my husband, and he's like, she's a car.
You? Okay.
Are you ill? And she said, yes, I'm Ill.
And They're like, do you need a police officer?

(44:21):
Oh, gee. A firefighter.
And she's just like, yes, firefighters should come.
Send an ambulance to And then she called her husband.
Hmm again I already told you thesituation where she told them
it's time. Yeah.
When the police arrived Andrea was still wet and she greeted

(44:44):
them at the door, she said very calmly.
I just killed my kids. Then she sat down in the living
room and the officers checked. Every account that I read of
this, and I don't go, I don't have any, I don't go to into
details on this in my notes, butthat it was a very, just a
life-altering experience for thepolice officers, who checked

(45:09):
horrible to walk in, and see thelittle boy in the tub.
And then to walk down the hall and see the other four children
laid out, She told she spoke to detective.
His name was Ed, Mel saying I'm a bad mother and I deserve to be
punished. She didn't struggle with the

(45:30):
police as the EMTs came into thehouse.
To see if her children were still alive, she just looked
kind of blankly at her neighborsas they led her away.
The police reported that, this is the part that really like
annoyed me, I just really frustrated me because Rusty was
like, you're not living up to your wifely duties.
I'm like, bro. Nobody was doing anything in the
house because don't lie. They said the house was like

(45:52):
just super cluttered dishes wereeverywhere.
Everything was super messy. like, if she's in such a state
where she can do nothing, Like, what wifely duties, do you
think? She's like, becoming dependent
on you? She can't even wash a dish.

(46:13):
That's a whole different level. Yeah.
But the children were confirmed dead when the The medical
examiner. Got there.
Rusty was not allowed to enter the home for five hours.
He told the police that his wifewas depressed and that she was
on medication at the police station.

(46:35):
They recorded an interview of Andrea Yates and she confessed,
she's like nearly emaciated at this point she is like
stuttering. She is, filthy, her scalp is
covered in bald patches from her.
Pulling her hair out and scabs from her like Like scratching at

(46:55):
her scalp, on top of that, the recorded confession was bizarre,
it was a mixture of her discussing what she did.
But also it was like all of that, like religious mumbo-jumbo
Twisted into it. Like this, that she'd like
internalized over the lack last eight years of being with Rusty,

(47:17):
like she told him, she killed her children because she was a
bad mother. She explained exactly.
Like, I told you in detail like,which one, and how she did it?
She told the police, like, they were like, well, did the
children do anything wrong? She's like, no, she's like, mm,
were you mad at them? She's like, no, they weren't
developing correctly. And so, they're like, what does

(47:38):
that mean? And she's just like, well, you
know, I've been thinking about Doing this for the last two
years and that she said that sheneeded to be punished for not,
raising them correctly, and the officer realized that she wanted
the criminal justice system to punish her for being a bad mom.
According to her own religion, she was sure that if things went

(47:59):
on the way they were going, her evilness would, in fact, these
children and they would never get to go to heaven, she
believed that just like the war in Equis.
Told her, she was damned, but atleast she could save her
children. From Souls.
She said that she had nearly killed him two months ago,
chant, but changed her mind. Gave him a name of her current
psychiatrist. She said she hadn't killed them

(48:21):
because someone was at home withher at the time, the officer
interviewing her, shut off the recording, 18 minutes later
after asking, Andrea to give allthe birth dates of her children.
So for his records that day, shewas charged with two counts of
capital, murder for intentionally and knowingly
called. The death of three of her

(48:42):
children with water as the weapon.
There was no mention on this report at all, of her mental
illness. Exactly, on the flip side, Rusty
began telling the press that shehad been dealing with serious
mental health issues, since the birth of their fourth child in
1989. Dr. Syed called Rusty the day of

(49:06):
the murders and was shocked. He was like, doctors.
I eat was under the belief that Rusty's mother lived there with
them. And she was always there, right?
Not that she was showing up every morning and then going
home and I mean, yeah, the latter would make sense and
former will make sense. One day because this is like a

(49:27):
media Firestorm at this part. No one can imagine this.
You know, horrible thing happened and beautiful medical
Middle America. One day Rusty, goes outside with
a picture of his family, and tells the group of reporters
everything he remembers from that day and he publicly
supports Andrea telling the reporter.
She's a good. Mom, she just wasn't in her
right frame of mind. June, 22nd and reappears in

(49:51):
front of Johnny Belinda Hill andlistens to prosecutor kahlan
will afford. It was well for its first
capital, murder case, and whole she gave it everything she had.
No Andrea said, she didn't have her attorney, didn't have an
attorney and was given a public defender named Bob Scott who
immediately requested a gag order on everything that was

(50:12):
going to be investigated. So that it wasn't leaked to the
Press, he wanted the state to keep quiet.
On whether they were going to seek the death penalty, the
prosecution complied. At this point, Rusty got a
family friend named George parnham to help with the case
and George. Negotiated a meeting between
Rusty and Andrea because at thispoint he wasn't even allowed to

(50:33):
see her and laughing singing. Here would be the best rejected
the attorney. There you go.
She told Rusty, you will be greatly rewarded and then said
have a nice life and tell him toleave.
The reason why she was so weird during this interview, this,
this time was that the presidentdidn't have like the medication

(50:56):
that she needed, right? So they just were putting her on
sedatives, so she was just high as a kite that day.
Like have a nice life by a man, by the name of Wendell Odom was
enlisted to help parnham when hewent to see Andrea.
She only wanted to know what plea, they were going to submit.

(51:17):
Her because she said she was notgoing to plead guilty at this
point. Wonder was like, I'm not even
sure you can stand trial for yourself.
She still even while she was in prison, she still wasn't bathing
and she was barely aware of the world around her.
She was still shaking and like scratching at her scalp.

(51:37):
There was a Doctor by the name of Lucy per year who ended up
evaluating her for the defense and said that Andrea was
suffering from something. Called postpartum psychosis and
described her as the sickest person I have ever seen in my
life. No, I'm pause this because a lot
of people know what postpartum depression has.

(51:57):
Mmm, I didn't actually know whatpostpartum psychosis was.
I started reading about that. Yeah, I didn't know that was a
thing. So postpartum depression occurs
in about 20 percent of women whohave children attended, 20% is
the, the general percentage. It just happens because there
are a extreme amount of hormonalshifts.
Being within the pregnant woman and it, they have weird

(52:23):
thoughts. They feel unsure.
Sometimes they have trouble bonding with the child.
Postpartum psychosis is actuallyquite where and only occurs in
about Point 1 to point, 2 percent of all women, who give
birth, it's treatable but very severe and it can happen to

(52:45):
women who've never had any Mental Health.
Issues before, but women who already have a history of mental
illness or at a higher risk for it.
It starts within weeks of the pregnancy like the birth, and if
its treated like quickly, you'reperfectly fine.
But like, as for the symptoms ofthis, Andrea had them all

(53:06):
strained believes hearing and seeing things that aren't there.
Severe confusion. Bouts of mania with a loss of
touch of reality, Andrews medical records were subpoenaed
and psychiatrist were ordered tospeak to her.
She very consistently told all of them that God would accept
her children to heaven, when oneof the doctors reverse, the

(53:30):
question and was like, what would happen if you'd left the
children alive? Andrea told them, the children
would continue stumbling in their lives and go to hell.
When I asked like, what were thechildren doing to show you that
you were being a bad mom? Andrea said that they didn't
treat Rusty's mother with respects and weren't doing the
things that God liked, which is so vague.

(53:53):
Yeah. What did the judge did Issue the
gag order, five days later whichis the same way that the
children were buried. But it didn't really matter
because information just leaked constantly to the process,
right? A funeral was reported on the
media Rusty was Graham and sad and spoke at at each of his

(54:13):
children's coffins tongue. Labor and good hands and placing
the Child's favorite toy inside the coffin.
He gave a eulogy for his children, discussing their
personalities and he showed pictures of them.
He read a few Bible verses called it, God's Will and sat
down. Andrea was not permitted to
attend her children's funeral but other family members did by

(54:36):
June 28th. The media were predicting what
was going to happen here. Texas juries are very apt to
recommend. The death penalty but they have
always found it. Hard to kill mother's.
Hmm, as of May 17th 2021. There are 17.
Women on death, row for killing their children, but roughly 180

(54:59):
children are killed by their mothers, every year in the u.s.
Oh my God. So Of the ones that happened
every year, like what less than one percent of them actually end
up on death row. For some reason, as a culture,
we really struggle to Put a woman to death.
Put a mother to death. Yeah it's rigged.

(55:21):
It's weird. You child enough.
Texas indicted Andrea for the deaths of Noah John and Mary on
July 31st, 2001. They Prevail Leaf earring as to
why they did not include the allthe children is that.
If the initial charges didn't gothe way the state wanted, they
could prosecute her again and not fall under.

(55:45):
Look at them using their brain. Yep, so they like listen, we're
going to do these first three and if this doesn't go the way
we want, we're going to prosecute the other two.
There you go. Judge Hill ordered a third
Psych. For Andrea for her arraignment
be Raymond. Is when you're expected to
submit your plea and here, the formal charges against you, she
appeared in court, August 8, 2001.

(56:06):
She was thinner than she first appeared in.
June, she been put back on the same antipsychotic that had
worked for her in 1989, but it didn't seem to be working.
Now she was very clearly deteriorating.
But the Texas court appointed psychiatrist is like nah, she's
good. Her legal team did not agree and
they wanted to draw To see and decide for themselves.

(56:32):
Since the psychiatrist they'd all hired said that Andrea was
not competent enough to just to stand trial, competency, hearing
meeting that she's able to participate in her own defense
and fully comprehend what's happening in court, right?
The judge would agree. Look at the medical testimony
from dr. Syed.
That was given to the grand jurybefore her indictment and they

(56:53):
set up a competency hearing the day.
After they say, the judge agreedto the competency hearing the
prosecution was like, yeah. So we're going to be seeking the
death penalty so much for that gag order, right?
The judge ordered. No one could speak publicly
about this. But Rusty did a 60 Minutes

(57:15):
interview oh my God, where he showed videos of the children
and talked about his life with Andrea, but he was careful.
Not to give any opinions about the trial or talk about anything
involving the try. Well.
Okay. I mean, that's not too bad.
He did everything, but so I'm jury selection began a week
after September 11th because everything.
Shut down for September 11th. Yes, that wild doesn't want this

(57:38):
happened. That year.
So, aim of the books that I readfor this cop, Breaking Point by
Suzie Spencer, it goes into someintense details about this
competency trial, there were hundreds of pages of documents
submitted to the court defense, experts saying, she's not come,
you know, competent prosecution saying.

(57:58):
She is lawyers arguing about thestate psychologist.
Being allowed to visit Andrea without the defense knowledge.
The judge ruled that that interview couldn't be used but
the end of the While it's still got used those all crazy.
There's this, his name is dr. Joan Harris.
And he testified that he met Andrea four times and that she
showed signs of psychosis an hallucination on June 25th.

(58:23):
That's five days after the murder.
Hmm. She was seeing visions of Satan
in her jail cell. He told the court.
She had a hard time understanding questions and it
would take her like a really long time to like process.
What he was asking her. The one thing that Andrea seemed
to be certain of, is that she deserved to be executed and go

(58:44):
to hell. Because once she was killed the
Devil Within her would be destroyed.
She insisted, she didn't need a lawyer, she was not going to
plead guilty and then she wantedto shave her head to prove that
she had been given the mark of Satan and it was on her scalp.
And if she shaved her head, thenwon't be able to see it.

(59:05):
Oh, my God, dr. Harris did tell the court that
after three months of being medicated, she did seem to stop
having hallucinations and could hold on to like have a
conversation, but she still struggled with delusions.
And while she was a Rather like average intelligence woman.
She struggled with remembering things, which is kind of

(59:26):
important for a trial where you're supposed to remember the
details of what you did, right? And it's like I said, if someone
with MVD, your memory like long-term depression, and your
memory, it's just shot, I just forget stuff, I know it's awful,
it makes me feel terrible. Goodness, there's another doctor

(59:49):
named Laura. Marin gel who testified about
the changes that happen to your brain at different psychological
States dr. Mary and Joe is actually an
expert on depression and she walks the court through the
previous two years of Andrea's life and said that with
extensive treatment Andrea couldbecome competent.

(01:00:10):
But at this moment she was not the prosecution used the prison
staff to support their assertionthat Andrea was okay, there was
a doctor named Steve rubin's. Sir, who spent 10 hours with her
and done tests? This was the one that the
defense was disputing because the defense wasn't there when
they did these competency time, September 24th, 2001, a jury of

(01:00:35):
11 men and one woman deemed her fit to stand trial on October
30th. Andrea's attorneys filed, 36,
pretrial, motions, everything inthe book that they could file,
they did. But the most important one was
that, the court reconsider part of the Texas criminal code that
would stop jurors from knowing that a verdict of Not Guilty.

(01:00:58):
By reason of insanity was not actually Acquittal, and I didn't
realize this either, like, I think, you know, it kind of but
you people always say, like, oh,that person got away with, you
know, Murder By reason of insanity.
No, but the reality of that is that you don't like get to go
free. No, no.
You agree to like go to a mentalfacility, roughly for the rest

(01:01:21):
of your life. Yep.
You just aren't going to prison.But I mean, really, if we're
arguing if some psychiatric facilities are like present
mostly in his prison. Yeah.
So People like the common. I think general idea in America
is that you get to walk away from this but that's not true at
all. So what her attorneys wanted was

(01:01:43):
for them to essentially say, like, know if you do this if you
give her, you know, guilty, not guilty.
By reason of insanity, it doesn't mean she gets away with
murder. I just mean she's going to go to
a facility that can actually help her, right?
But apparently in Texas, you can't do that.
We're not allowed to know that whatnot.

(01:02:04):
It's against the rules. It's against the rules are
against the law. It's part of the Texas criminal
code. That jurors are not supposed to
understand like that about that verdict.
That's some bullshit. It's weird.
And it's something that after this case has been disputed,
like, why wouldn't you want yourjurors to be fully like before
we understand what's going on? That's what I said too.

(01:02:28):
Now, Andrea is defense. Also wanted her Russian thrown
out because it was done about anhour after the murders where she
was not on any medication and she was definitely not competent
enough to waive her right to an attorney that day.
Yeah, but it's what you didn't do, it was the freshest.
So at this end, they were tryingand November a psychiatrist for
the prosecution interviewed Andrea, his name was dr.

(01:02:52):
Park Dietz, and he is a nationally well-known forensic
psychiatrist who worked on Jeffrey, Dahmer's case for the
FBI. Oh as well as Susan Smith.
Who also drowned her children. Oh wait, you said Jeffrey
Dahmer? You mean your boy?
No Dahmer know until my Bundy. Well no not but probably not

(01:03:12):
your voice. Not my boy, not your boy.
Oh my God. Okay Dahmer is not my boy.
Despite him being a very well respected forensic psychiatrist.
He knew virtually nothing about postpartum depression or
psychosis. It wasn't his area of expertise

(01:03:35):
that interview was taped and released to the public.
Oh, they probably eat him alive.She know, she repeated a lot of
what I've told though, but she Itold you to dr.
Dietz. December was really tough month.
The defense lost nearly all of their emotions, specifically,
the one about the jury, they begin what year which is jury

(01:03:56):
selection. January 6, 2002, eight women,
and four men were chosen. Seven of those jurors had
children and to had degrees in Psychology.
Hmm. All were aware that they were
allowed to choose the death penalty trial was set for
February. Eighteenth, two thousand two.
This was super high profile and the literally like Every night,

(01:04:17):
the media's medical experts weredebating, whether Andrea Yates
was actually crazy. We should she get off like The
prosecution was like, listen, Andrew Greg Yates drowned, her
five kids. She knew it was wrong.
She known because she didn't kill them when her husband was
home the month before and she waited until he was gone the day

(01:04:37):
that she did it then she called the police.
Both Williford and her partner. Joseph own be tried to keep the
jury focused on the fact that she knew what was right when it
happened and that her mental health wasn't really a factor.
Of course the defense was that she didn't know What she was
doing, because she is insane as we discussed during the Herbert

(01:04:59):
Mullin case. And episode 13, this is still
very hard to prove in court. Andrea's defends said that she'd
been suffering from postpartum depression.
Since her second son was born postpartum psychosis since the
final child was born her lawyer.Parnham said that Andrea's
mental illness was so severe. And so long-standing that Andrea

(01:05:22):
Yates ability to think is at an abstract To give narrative
responses and to be able to connect the dots is impaired.
Hmm? Really?
He specifically avoided bringingup the religious stuff because
he thought that her fixation on religion was a manifestation of

(01:05:43):
the bigger problem. Like it wasn't.
Just the devil made me do it. It was that's a movie coming
out. Oh yeah, yeah.
Oh wow. It's about the warrants to.
Oh wow. Yeah, we have to watch it.
I'm sorry. They were going to leave it up
to the jurors decide if she was in the midst of a debilitating
psychotic State, when she killedher children.
This is rough because now after a year of consistent, medical

(01:06:06):
treatment, Andrea looked a lot better.
And it would be unethical to remove her from the medications
to show how she behaves when she's not on.
Yeah, please don't know where the enough during Yates
testified for the prosecution onhow Andrea did nothing at home,
but you sit and stare into space.

(01:06:27):
And so like, a lot of people whoreported on this guy, read a
couple of years, our curls news articles and they were just like
This kind of was more helpful tothe defense.
Yeah, absolutely saying that. Like she pretty much was at home
in a catatonic State all the time.
Thank you. Regardless.
We appreciate your help. One of the other things that the
prosecution did was they showed a picture of one of the

(01:06:52):
children's like clenched Fist and it had some of Andrea's hair
in it. So I let the baby have fought
back when I have the baby but one of the other children for
that, right? And also too Show how small
their little hands were when they died.
Andrea's lawyer was like, this is just an attempt to work up
the jury. It was, right.

(01:07:17):
They also showed the pajamas, they like literally entered the
children's pajamas into evidenceto show how small they were come
on and how Andrea was so much bigger.
We know how big seven-year-old five, right.
So we don't like, literally thisis like a 50 pound child.
Yeah, we know how big they are, you know.
Shows us the phone in to see it.The defense launch their portion

(01:07:37):
of the trial. They started with the prison
psychiatrist. Melissa Ferguson to give the
court, an idea of what Andrea looked like, when she entered
the prison, how she couldn't answer any questions or really
talk much. One of the books that I read for
this podcast is called, are you there alone?
And it was from Suzanne O'Malleyand one of the most bizarre
things that Suzanne points out about this entire relationship.

(01:08:00):
But specifically, the trial is that Rusty Yates is almost As
delusional as his wife. He made team this almost
childish naivete, that Andre would be found innocent and that
they would have more children after she left a mental health,
facility boy know at some point,while he was testifying in her

(01:08:21):
defense, I think it might have, he might have finally really
understood the breadth of his wife's illness because before
the murders Rusty, was very much.
The type of person to tell, you know, people just didn't think
happy thoughts, Or. Brian Kennedy.
Andrea's brother said that one time, he even said that, like

(01:08:42):
depressed people just needed like a swift kick in the rear.
You need a swift kick and to getyou know in gear and your face.
Sir you fucking cloning during Rusty's testimony though he had
a bone to pick with dr. Sayid So mind, you doctor say
eat is the one who said don't leave her alone, you ever.

(01:09:03):
Yeah. What's his problem with dr.
So rusty said, doctor said he isresponsible for my wife's mental
care. Not me.
I'm not a mental health care, professional.
And since Andrea hadn't told himabout the hallucinations, he's
like, I assume that what was being done, you know, was being
done boy as your wife, right know this stuff but he, that's

(01:09:24):
what I'm saying. He was neglectful of heard
throughout their entire relationship.
It's not yours. Not the doctors fault.
You it's like partly your fault too, because you weren't paying
attention to her. You weren't there for her, you
are sure your fucking asshole. God, I'm sorry.
Well, Rusty also said that if she was as sick as dr.

(01:09:45):
Syed had told the cops, then sheshould have never been released
at all. She should have been left alone,
like, which astral fucking left her alone.
She should have been released but doc Dr. Saeed also told the
cops that he didn't want to release Andrea, but her
insurance, only covered her stay, in an inpatient facility

(01:10:06):
for 10 days. Hmm.
So they were at a loss. Doctor said he did testify in
the third week of the trial thatwhen he met with Andrea two days
before the murder, she was not displaying psychosis at that
time and that he had diagnosed her with depression with

(01:10:26):
psychotic features. The defense questioned his notes
and said, did you add these after she got arrested for
murder and say he was like, no, because they were saying that he
didn't do his job. And that he should have been a
little more thorough. I'm pretty like I'm pretty sure

(01:10:48):
he did the best he could do whathe could like.
Nobody else was there to help, right?
Like she was lucky enough to getlike a doctor like let her
husband. Her husband actually took her
right? Yeah.
At that point. Well Andrews mother spoke on her
behalf she was not cross-examined and then they

(01:11:08):
brought out their big guns. Three very well-known
psychiatrist Philip Resnick Steve rosenblatt and Lucy per
year this was a three-part plan so rosenblatt had interviewed
Andrea five days after the killing and say that Andrea was
in a deep sleep. Of psychosis and that it would
have taken weeks for her to get this bad.
Not days, which directly cuts into dr.

(01:11:31):
Saeed's diagnosis of saying, that two days before the murder.
She was all right, hmm. Per year, focused on the
internalized. Shame from her first to it, that
suicide attempt and how she had had a lot of secrecy about her
suicidal, ideation after that because after that, she didn't
tell anybody about any of the stuff she was thinking, or
seeing or hearing, right prayer.Also handled the main chunk of

(01:11:52):
explaining to the The jury the difference between postpartum
depression and psychosis. Then Resnick, his speciality was
parasite. He referred to the killings as
being altruistic in nature, and that she knew what she was doing
was illegal. But she believed that her choice

(01:12:12):
to override this, right? And wrong, was because she was
doing it for the betterment of the child.
That actually makes sense, right?
So this wasn't like, I'm killingmy kids because I don't know.
Some man wants me to move to, you know.
Yeah. North Carolina or something dumb
like that. Like this was done with her

(01:12:33):
thinking about their best interest at heart, but she knew
it was wrong but she does, she didn't know.
It was wrong to kill people. Yeah.
Resident met her in her cell on two separate occasions and he
was just like, I'm pretty sure she's schizophrenic as well.
His diagnosis did contradict theother doctors but he's just
simply Stated like listen this is just my interpretation of the

(01:12:55):
same data that we're all lookingat right after that, the
prosecution had their opportunity for rebuttal and
that is when they bought it, brought in dr.
Park Dietz. This was a big deal.
Because dr. Dietz and dr.
Resnick had been on the oppositeside of the courtroom before and
dates usually 100. He was very good at explaining

(01:13:17):
complex things in simple ways forgeries, which tends to earn
you favor in courtroom. Do you like to be talked to like
I don't know things. This is because sometimes
actually explain to me like I'm five like playing a courtroom
like because sometimes I am stupid and you need to talk to
me like a child. Like these cases are long.
They go on for weeks. Like you need somebody to
explain like, okay. Can you just say and basic words

(01:13:40):
with psychosis says, because I'mtired of hearing, my 12th grades
13th grade language. Y'all need to move on from there
to youth green 13th, grade. Listen, I'm not ready for 13th,
grave right now, sir. In fact, during the trial Deets
used PowerPoint and he admitted yes Andrea Yates is seriously

(01:14:00):
mentally ill, but she a, he said, she hadn't acted like a
mother who was saving her children.
He said she was aware of her delusions and had not done
anything to protect her childrenDietz point out that in Yates
own words. She had committed a sin and she
knew what she had done was wrong.
He also pointed out that Yates deserve the death penalty for
crimes and that her covering thechildren's bodies with.

(01:14:23):
His sheet was a sign of guilt. He also wondered why she hadn't
comforted her children or reassured them afterward.
That this was an act of love. Dietz.
Also, blamed Rusty to thank you.He remind the court that doctor
Sayid and also another doctor who did she had worked with

(01:14:46):
before dr. Eileen star Branch had.
Advised her not to go off her meds to get pregnant and not to
leave Andrea alone. This is true.
He said that Russia should have realized that.
If a doctor was saying, don't leave her alone.
It means you can't leave her alone with the kids.
He Point out that Andrea had been living in an unhealthy

(01:15:07):
condition for a very long time and had not received the
Continuous Care that she needed to recover.
And that's the really big word here.
Continuous Care. It's one thing for Rusty to
compete. Taking her back to the doctors
every couple months. Yeah.
But she need ongoing consistent.Medical Healthcare really
hourly. Like that's like it's one of

(01:15:30):
those interesting things. After my mom passed, I was
seeing a therapist twice a week.every week for months, that That
matters. So like if you're saying that
somebody's in this like deep psych psychosis, I was nowhere
near anything like that and you were at least and I was a weed.
Yeah I was still going to see a therapist twice a week so I feel

(01:15:53):
like honestly like I said like dr.
Sagan said she should have been committed.
Yeah and she was only getting hit like we just like once a
month naughty. Yeah.
It was like one time, will the year that this happened?
Yeah, April May a couple of June, like, I'm like once a
month is not enough, that's that's what you Like you get put
on once a month, appointments, when you're in like, full-on

(01:16:15):
like recovery and they're like, I was going to check on you
every so often you're doing good.
That's what I'll do for counseling once a month.
Yeah, that's that's kind of, like, where would be now for me
like, hey, you know, what did you stop by once a month to keep
up with you. Exactly.
But like, once a month for somebody who is this far down
the rabbit hole? It's at, it's not enough.

(01:16:38):
Now, Dietz also said in court that when Was imprisoned.
She told him, I shouldn't have done this, he did concede that.
It's possible that Andrea psychosis could have gotten
worse after she killed the children, so that the other
doctors weren't lying, but that he did say that the delusions
that she told him and the delusion, she told the other

(01:17:00):
doctors days and weeks later were different.
It was his opinion that her motive for murder was the same
as her motive for suicide. She saw, no way out of her life
with a man who gave her no help and left her with five children.
This was a way for her to escapeand the same way that she was
trying to escape by killing herself.

(01:17:22):
He also liquid on this weird tangent where he said that
Andrea had seen a law-and-order episode about a mother who
killed her children. I had gotten away with murder.
Hmm. That's going to come up later.
Closing arguments happen. Williford dramatically asked the
jury to sit in silence for the three minutes that would have

(01:17:44):
taken for each of the children to die.
I know very dramatic parnham, just decided to reiterate what
the psychiatrist said and let their work speak for him.
The jury deliberated for three hours and returned with a
verdict on March 12th. 2002 Andrea was guilty, Rusty cried
in the courtroom. Andrea tried to give her brother

(01:18:06):
Brian a smile. But cried as they, let her out
the nation debated, whether she could have death penalty or not.
Every imaginable concept was runthrough the verdict was unfair.
Give her life in prison. The verdict is fair as you
deserve to die. Would it have been different if
the jurors had known about the Not Guilty by insanity?
You rolling. Yes.
Why are they allowed to know this information?

(01:18:28):
They would have definitely been different.
And can I say something, I all the psychologists in this, I
just noticed a Galaxy psychologygoing on with it.
Just give me like a huge brain boner.
Right now, I'm just learning allthis cool stuff.
It was like, oh my God. Yes.
Well, are you ready for this bombshell?
Yeah. Go ahead.

(01:18:48):
The defense discover that Park Dietz.
Lied. That episode of Law & Order that
he was sure that Andrea had seenin told him about never
happened. And the best part about this is
the reason why they even found out about this is because of one
of the women who wrote the book because she was that, I read the

(01:19:09):
one that came out in 2005. I'm her name is Suzanne.
I forget her last name that fast.
I've already mentioned her like four times Suzanne O'Malley was
she like, I'm Dan Suzanne. O'Malley was a writer for Law
and Order. See her name and yes.
Yes, Susie and O'Malley is a writer for the writer, for Law

(01:19:29):
and Order and almost immediatelyshe could, she was working.
She was writing for this what she's writing this book, but she
was also working for Oprah and the New York Times covering the
case. So she immediately was like, no,
I I checked with everyone who I know who still writes on this
show. There's no episode about a woman

(01:19:52):
killing her family in a bathtub and getting away with murder.
Oh, you know. Now they did release an episode
about that in 2004, but that is three years after this case,
yeah, that happened later, right?
So that kind of crazy that's wild.
That one of the, the people like, this is a former writer

(01:20:14):
for a An order who is also a at this point.
Honestly, I should just like I've read a lot of Susan,
O'Malley's books for these podcasts.
I need to send her an email me. Like you know, you want to be on
our podcast because I like you. But I who knew that?
Like I didn't realize that that like, that's why that detail,

(01:20:35):
the fact that this woman was doing this case. is ultimately
the reason why this case gets overturned, I don't mind that
because die, I don't don't be like, come on now.
So the funny thing here is that Dietz sends a letter and he's
just like, I'm an error. I guess Andrea.

(01:20:56):
Never told me about this, his reputation does take a little
bit of a hit, but he is still considered to be a renowned
successful forensic psychiatristparnham and Odom, ask for a
mistrial immediately but judge held declines it.
I mean, it was just that one line though.
We can't blink cause a mistrial for me.

(01:21:16):
Yeah, really okay. Leo that's bring the jury meets
again, to discuss sentencing andin under an hour actually was
under 40 minutes. They come back and they give her
life in prison option for parolein 2041, the jury even like
barely even discuss the death penalty, which is exactly what
we were talking about earlier, which is that we just do not

(01:21:37):
want to put a mom in jail, like,Mom on death row.
Yeah. Andrea didn't seem to really
react Snooze in the courtroom. She was sent to Mountain View
unit which is a state. Psychiatry president Eastern,
Texas. Rusty did all manner of
interviews he could I'd his namepopped up.
So often in my research he insisted his family had been a

(01:21:58):
victim of the poor mental healthsystem in the United States that
he, he ignored that he had been warned and said that Andrea had
never properly been treated and then he set up a website to
describe his side of things and show pictures of his family's
and yes. Yes, I did.
Look up that website. It's called Yates kids.org and
currently it is not working. Look here, I want to call.

(01:22:21):
I want to call. Now, many people believe like
you, I'm dying, many, many people believe like you though,
that Rusty was culpable and that's the fish.
Absolutely others also said thatdr.
Sayed should have looked furtherinto her medical history and
maybe put her on the medicine and she had been on a 99.

(01:22:45):
In fact dozens of emails were sent to the local Harris County,
DA Chuck, Rosenthal to investigate both of them, do
nice Rusty, repeatedly was just like listen it was just an hour
and my mom was going to be there.
An hour. Yeah.
But you know how long it takes to kill somebody.
Not very long. Really?
It takes three minutes to drop someone what this is.
Or at least the child green children though.

(01:23:06):
This, what they charge her for right to become children?
Yeah, one minute per Jack. Yeah, actually, every year
before summer camp, we have to go through water, safety
training, and our head lifeguardtells us that 30 seconds, that's
how quickly a kid can receive lose.
So much oxygen at. They have permanent brain

(01:23:27):
damage. Really.
Yep. Scared the crap out of me.
The first year I ever started working for them.
Oh my God. That's like 30 seconds.
Oh God. What never let them out of your
sight when they're near water? No, not at all terrifying.
Oh my God. Okay.
Well swimming. This Rusty.
Blame the hospital and the doctors he threatened to sue
them but there was no investigation into Rusty and no

(01:23:48):
lawsuit. Ultimately January 6, 2005.
So Three years. After the initial verdict, the
Texas court of appeals overturns, Andrea sentence, dr.
Parks Dietz, false statement, had Prejudice, the jury, and

(01:24:10):
that was considered to be a miscarriage of Justice.
Because essentially Dietz was saying that she had
premeditated. Like this was a premeditated
murder. Okay, so, okay, so if they
thought that she had planned this ahead of time, yeah, and
there's no way they were ever going to consider.
That she was insane. Prosecutors insisted.

(01:24:32):
They did not purposefully mislead the court but it didn't
matter. January 9th, 2006, Andrea
submitted, a plea of Not Guilty.By reason of insanity and on
February 1st 2006, she was granted release on bail on the
condition that she would stay ata mental health facility and
complete her treatment. So she was actually allowed out
of prison during the trial. Okay?

(01:24:53):
July 25th, 2006 after three daysof deliberation, Andrea Yates
Was found not guilty and committed to the North Texas
State Hospital at Vernon campus about a year later.
She was deemed well enough to goto a low-security facility and
Kerrville Texas where she has been at the Kerrville state
hospital. She's currently 56 years old and

(01:25:17):
enjoys arts and crafts. Nice Mystery of Life in there
then yeah she the she could potentially be released its
Highly unlikely that. Yeah I don't think with
everything that she went throughand how many years she went
untreated unfortunately, mental like severe mental health stuff

(01:25:41):
does change not your brain chemistry, but it almost changes
like the way your brain works. They have done, they've taken, I
forget what those CAT scan. Yes, cat-scans of people with
different mental illnesses, and compared those to people who are
neurotypical and you're like, your synapses fire differently.

(01:26:05):
Hmm. Since we're being so open about
my mental health, this episode, one of the things that I learned
after having a very traumatic childhood before I was adopted,
is that I am consistently in fight or flight mode.
My brain automatically assumes, the worst thing is going to

(01:26:28):
happen. How can I navigate?
How to deal with this? And I am 33 years old.
It's just something that I've learned to deal with and that I
have, I cannot trust my instant reaction to things.
I have to stop and go. You can work through this, this

(01:26:49):
is not life or death, but because when I was so little so
much was life and death and morethan likely when I was, my brain
was forming itself and becoming a big people brain.
I didn't get a chance to not constantly be in that sense of
anxiety and fear as a kid. I mean speaking from Like my

(01:27:14):
son, like I can just see like how all this.
He's very anxious to is. He does suffer from anxiety.
He does and I can just see like,if you learn how to deal with
it. Exactly, if you didn't have any
help for it at all, then, you know, then I can just see him
growing up with just. Just two biggest, I don't know,

(01:27:36):
just having like a bad time. Basically, the nice thing about
it is that you have, you know, sort, Help with this.
Yes, you don't have to just be anxious all the time.
It was amazing to me. I'd like 28 years old.
I remember like telling my ex atthe time like do you know how
wonderful it is? Not to worry about you all the

(01:27:57):
time because I just assumed that, that was how all people
were I assumed that if I called like that normal, like the
everybody freaked out when you called your parent and they
didn't pick up the phone and like, when I was a teenager, I
would call my parents repeatedlyover and over and over and Over
again. If they weren't home on time, I
was always afraid. I didn't think I didn't think

(01:28:18):
that was, I thought that was howeverybody was.
I thought that was normal. And then all of a sudden I'm
like it's not only it's you know, so you have to constantly
they call them automatic negative thoughts, ants and you
just have to learn how to challenge your own brain.
And go is this is this as bad asyou're making it out to be?
Probably not need some bug sprayfroz ants.

(01:28:40):
But remember we talked about howAndrea Yates was.
Suffering from depression and things when she was a teenager.
Yeah. Or in middle school.
So, it's very likely that some of these Pathways and things
that she struggled, you know, this was happening during her
formative years to and the thingis, your brain also doesn't stop
developing until you hit your leg mid-20s.

(01:29:01):
So that's also when she first met Rusty and she got
indoctrinated into that weird religion.
So, all these things are going on in her brain and she was
constantly led to believe that. I mean, it was honestly it
sounds very cold like you and I talked about cults every so
often, it sounds very cult-like.So I really doubt that she will

(01:29:21):
probably ever be released but atleast she will have some
semblance of A okay life. Yeah, yeah.
And that's, you know, that's thebest you can do is for her as
for Rusty. Hmm, he got divorced.
They, he filed for divorce in 2004 before her trial was
overturned, he no longer works for NASA.
He remarried in 2006 but has since gotten divorced, they have

(01:29:44):
a little boy who is 12 years old?
Hmm. Apparently he calls Andrea once
a month and he visits her once ayear and they talk about the
good times, okay? Good times.
According to them. Okay.
And that's kind of how that goesfor the two of them.
Okay, this is lovely. Yep.

(01:30:06):
It's an interesting, like I said, like this was a weird
thing to discuss because we still don't probably give enough
respect or acknowledgement to women who have postpartum that
people really don't understand that it especially, probably for
somebody who's never experiencedany of those.

(01:30:28):
And if thoughts or suicidal ideation or things of that
nature, it's probably very scaryfor somebody who has had never
had any mental health issues andnow all of a sudden, why do I
want to kill myself and my baby?Yeah, you know.
Yeah. But if we did better with that
we would probably save a lot of children's lives and also women

(01:30:49):
to because it is, it's totally acompletely treatable issue.
You just have to one being a place where you can tell people
about it and not feel guilty to be able to get the medical care
that you need and move. You know, and then could get
that Continuous Care. It's not, this is not a

(01:31:12):
one-and-done thing. Nothing mental health-related is
one and no, no, no. I'm sure anybody listening has
any sort of diagnosis knows thatit's nonstop.
Yeah, I definitely will Freaky refer to it as recovery, I'm
fine. Most of the time.

(01:31:33):
Every once in a while say I'm not and you just gotta work
through those days. Save but yeah like I said I
started out being like there is absolutely no justification for
why a woman would kill her children and as I was going
through these two different books and all these noodles news
articles like well yeah when I got to the trial I was like I

(01:31:55):
don't know which side I want to be.
All right now, right is because on one hand you totally are like
oh these poor babies. And on the other hand And you're
just like, poor Andrea. Yeah.
Let's did she ever have a chance?
Yeah, that's poor babies before.So, if you are a Christian in
one of these weird fundamentalist organizations,

(01:32:17):
get out Brad, like being forced to do that whole Barefoot
pregnant thing sounds like, oh, just a raw deal.
What the hell is that? That's where you just hang out.
You know, you're barefoot and pregnant.
You cook in the kitchen and you make babies, that's what they
want. The women to do is some of those
work. So just like a Housewife, pretty
much. Yeah.
Pretty much. But a housewife with absolutely
no power, like, it's really interesting because like, I hear

(01:32:39):
like the old, like black ladies talk about, like, you know,
listen, I might have been at home, but I was in charge of the
house, right? Of course, in their churches,
you're at home and you're not incharge.
Oh, basically a slave. Yeah, pretty much popping out
babies like, you know, my grandma would have been like,
listen, he comes home and he gives the check to me and then I
make sure all the bills are paidand I give him some of his money

(01:33:01):
back so he can do what he wants.Was this all goes.
So yeah. That's I mean that's how it is
sometimes with these you know because Who would know what the
house needs better than the person who's there all the time.
Absolutely. But regardless, oh my God, it
was a, it was a pretty intense. That was, yeah, that was a
roller coaster. It.
There you go. That's what we're going to say.

(01:33:22):
It was a fucking roller coaster ride.
Oh my God. What do you have for me today?
All right, so I know a lot of people may know that me and

(01:33:49):
Brittany Live in Pennsylvania. We do.
Yeah and a lot of my friends listen to the podcast and it
mean when they can and know a lot of you know your people who
listen to the podcast too. So oh yes my friends from
Lancaster listen to us. Yeah there you go some of your
co-workers right? Oh yeah and some people I work

(01:34:10):
with to worry about that. My-my boss will randomly be like
and then you were talking about and I'm like you're right you're
right that's what we say. But we do often mention that we
are from central Pennsylvania. I know we like you mentioned it
like another, that's good or not, you never know.

(01:34:32):
And people don't know where central Pennsylvania is there.
Like, what the hell central Pennsylvania?
Like you not at all Adelphia friggin truth.
This is true. Well today, I'll be bringing you
some urban legends and / hauntings from our little neck
of the woods. Oh that's lovely.
And that may be new to some and who chew others.

(01:34:54):
I mean I'm pretty sure everybodyfrom around the area they know
all of the legends from the area.
Oh most of the info was brought to me by a very good friend of
mine named is Christine and thislady.

(01:35:15):
She she basically like helped mewhen I first started skating.
Oh cool. So my roller derby career.
Yeah. And she's always down the skate
whenever if she's free that's important.
But yeah, yeah, like I asked her, you know, what are some

(01:35:36):
local Tales from your - would I could talk.
About and like she gave me like this whole as she blew up my
messenger about this only pixel.Like I think one from her whole
list because other ones I like Ican talk about this but it'd
probably be like too long. Well, okay, yeah, I don't know.

(01:35:56):
But whatever, I'm pretty sure she's listening so.
Hi Christine, thanks for the info.
Hi. Christine All right.
Now we're giving out our actual location.
We don't need stalkers at all. Amen.
I'll be talking about different stories from different cities
and Central PA, or I think one'sactually not in Central PA is

(01:36:18):
the one, the last one I'm going to be telling you, but two are
from central Pennsylvania. Oh, interesting.
I don't know. Like okay, you don't know a lot
from Central think. I know some about some of the
the far reaches of our state, you know, up near Eerie, you
don't know anything from From our, I don't think so huh.
Okay. And I also won't be talking

(01:36:40):
about Gettysburg because one that's Gettysburg has too many
fucking ghost stories choose from and to everybody knows
Gettysburg. Yeah, his Holiness fuck.
So. All right.
Okay, so wait, have you heard ofseven?
Gates of? Hell yes.

(01:37:02):
Okay great. I was going to tell you that one
first, but, It's a, I mean you can still tell the people I was
gonna tell tell I was just goingto go over it because it's not
like something as not like something I wrote down those
ones where I feel like every okay, I hate to say it this way.
But like every middle of like nowhere, place kind of has won

(01:37:27):
the user have something like this or like the portal to
portal to hell, or some shit. Like yeah.
Like I think New Jersey has sometype of shit like that.
Yeah, everyone always has like aplace.
I swear, if you go through it, things will happen, well, always
wanted to go. There's no such place.

(01:37:49):
I mean there is but there's not I can get to it later but not
really wanna get into it right now.
I wanted to be real, it's sort of real but its not real.
It's not I don't know how else to explain it.
Anyway, let's start off with onestory.
That oh, by the way, this story like you said everywhere has a

(01:38:09):
place like this. Basically, everywhere everywhere
has a place like this one too. And this is place a place that
many people had tested out and there seems to be an answer for
it, so yeah. Stop.
Stop it. Christian is also tested this
out. I think I know what this is.

(01:38:31):
Oh my God. Continue.
Okay, Louis Barre. Pennsylvania.
Now this one is, I think it's off of Route. 83 there's a hill
and if you just so happen to a, put your car in neutral at the
bottom of this hill, it will seem to roll backwards up the

(01:38:53):
hill as this the The one with the handprint.
Yeah, on your car? Okay, sure is.
So I have heard about these. I just didn't realize they were
in Pennsylvania. I heard about this like in like
Virginia. Well, this is called Gravity
Hill and like, like you said, Virginia.
This isn't the only one in Pennsylvania and like, there are

(01:39:14):
two other places in Pennsylvaniawith gravity hills.
Oh, and this isn't the only place in America that has a
Gravity Hill. Oh, okay.
Then like, Over the place. That would explain that then no.
But this one is close to home. So, I know totally.

(01:39:34):
So this is the one that your friend is actually.
Yeah, absolutely experienced. Now, there is, of course, a
legend behind this from what I could piece together.
There was a school bus that whose brakes just gave out and
bus, just rolled into the intersection down this road and

(01:39:56):
of course, I got into an accident and the children on
board. All died.
Poor babies. Poor baby for babies.
Yes. Now, if you happen to try it,
it's said that the reason why the car moves backwards is
because the children from the accident are said to be the
ones. Pushing your car back from the

(01:40:17):
intersection to save you from their fate.
Yep. Remember hearing about this one
is a kid. Yeah.
Now, our gravity hills and I'm pretty sure any other Gravity
Hill is actually just an opticalillusion.
Oh yeah, it makes you. It makes it seem like you're

(01:40:38):
rolling backwards uphill when you're inside the car.
That's it. Yeah.
Huh I don't like I talk to Christine, she said she didn't
test out the handprint thing because her car was white.
So she didn't see any hand prints on the car.
I mean, she could put a little, you know, brown dirt on it.

(01:41:00):
Rub it around a little bit. Yeah get your Carter.
Yeah, listen for science. Christine for Sian my God.
So apparently, the one in the lose, Barry is the best one to
visit in Pennsylvania. Hmm.
Because you can't like what I read for.
His one article is that the other two gravity hills you can

(01:41:23):
see the optical illusion like you can see how it how it does
it when you're outside of the car.
I'm actually really interested in seeing the Illusion part of
this. Yeah I do.
I got a like it's the thing thatwe don't we might have to do but
I don't want to do it. It and I'll tell you why it's do
during the daytime. I'll tell you why.
So, It's also advised to use as much caution as you can sense

(01:41:51):
this gravity. He'll lose Barry is on a busy
road. Well actually never mind that
we're not going to like, put ourselves in actual danger.
No, no. I actually like the two roads
that at the intersection is on our two busy roads.
So, it's advised to do this, which makes sense because the
legend is about like a car accident.

(01:42:12):
So, like, don't cause a car accident, you know, you're
trying to do. This thing, like if you visit
PA, you can go to lose. Barry PA just be and you look
for this Gravity Hill. Please be cautious because you
don't want to cause another accident and we don't want to be
title. Telling ghost stories about your
ass. Oh, also, I want I want to

(01:42:37):
mention that this story in the next one will be telling they
are not advertised at all, by the towns.
Like they like nobody advertisers, that know these are
things. You like, I'm pretty sure I
heard about these or read about these randomly.
When I was like a teenager reading like spooky forums and

(01:42:57):
stuff and people talking about doing things haunted houses in
Pennsylvania. You know, haunted Has stuff like
that. Yeah, because nobody ever wants
like nobody who lives there. Once randoms coming.
No, no, they don't. No not at all.
Please don't ya. Oh goodness.
Okay, so next door that was Story.

(01:43:19):
One number two, I'm pretty sure you're going to notice one as
soon as I start talking about it.
Okay, so if you play horror video games, like me and
Brittany do. Yes, once again, I am bringing
up games. Because the center, this is just
what we do, this is what you, this is what I do like video

(01:43:39):
games and if they, you know, connect with stuff I want to
talk about, I won't talk about it.
So if you know anything about video games, horror video games,
you might know this one as well,and Columbia County.
There's a near ghost town with apopulation of nine.
As of 2019, it just sort. It was 12:00.

(01:44:02):
Yes, as a population. You gave me a look like you
already knew what I was talking.Everybody knows about this.
Of course it's name is Centralia, Centralia,
Pennsylvania and it is what theybase, Silent Hill.
Well, the movie, the movie and the game, actually, the first, I
don't remember, I didn't know that the game was based on.

(01:44:23):
This is the, the first game was based off of it too.
I know the movie was definitely based off of it is not a movie.
Definitely, they totally pulled everything.
Oh, yeah, absolutely. now, if you don't know what Silent Hill
is, Google it. I'm not telling you about it.
No no this is worth. This is worth talking about

(01:44:44):
Silent Hill was one of the I would say one of the forerunners
of survival Horror. Oh yeah.
I mean you walked through this. You were a man on a quest for
your daughter. Yeah.
In this town that you'd never heard of before called Silent
Hill and one of the interesting things about the game itself was
that the game engine that the time could not, Render the

(01:45:08):
entire game at the same time, not like now where it loads a
whole level in 30 seconds, it would load as you were walking.
So what they did to allow the game to slowly render and you
not to be aware of, it was the entire town is covered in fog.
Yes. And as you walk through the fog,

(01:45:28):
it just gave a great Ambiance and experience and just straight
chills of you not knowing and then your guy had a little
radio. And the radio would begin to
like get staticky when it was somewhere near a monster.
But of course, you couldn't tellwhere it was coming from because
you are walking through the fog.It was very sick.
It's wonderful. The story itself is a little

(01:45:49):
weird, but yeah, as they progressed as the movies and
games per guest to get some more, we're not talking about
the game and the movies, every, it's is worth it for the first
one alone. Absolutely the first, and second
one, actually, I like those bills.
Yeah. But yet, now, you ask, why is
this basement on the hill? Is it?
Because there's a pyramid headeddude.
Stalking around with a huge sword.

(01:46:11):
Nope. No.
It's because of the coal fire burning beneath the town.
Yep. Back in 1966, a fire started and
one of the coal mining towns. Well I guess one of the and not
going to say one of the cool money.
Yeah there you go. Officials had tried to light a

(01:46:32):
fire there too. I guess control something and it
got out of control. Troll and it hit a coal vein and
which led down to the mine in. Control burns aren't entirely
all that like new. It's, it's something that places
that have a lot of wildfires andthings do consistently but I
guess they just didn't do a goodjob.

(01:46:53):
No because it destroyed the entire town.
I sure as fuck did. So as I went down to the mine
deep in the mind it slowly beganto spread I can't remember.
I'm sure you probably wrote this.
This down how long they think this is going to be burning for
because it's already been, like 70, 80 years, isn't it?

(01:47:13):
It's been 50 years. It's been 50 years.
Okay. How long are they think it's
going to continue burning on? They said it can burn for like
another Century. Holy crap, if it's not contain,
so we'll be long gone before this is Dunya.
But the cool thing is that people do in Pennsylvania.
At least that I've seen people do is during winter.
They go out there. It's like a six hour drive for
us. It's real far away, is it?

(01:47:35):
I heard it was way, way way. Way out and the road to get
there. Now has been destroyed.
Britney, you know, how to get there?
Brittany, mr. Ransome, yes, you're really with
deep story. Oh, I'm sorry.
I thought it was really far awaythough.
No, it's in Colombia now I got it to a GPS.

(01:47:57):
We're gonna tear your story ygp.Oh my god.
Oh so since the fire burns so deeply there's no real way to
control it or contain it soon onthe ground fire.
Reach the actual Town causing the roads to split and crack and

(01:48:18):
toxic smoke would start spreading start.
Being out of the cracks air quality, started getting
dangerous and it took about 20 years before the government gave
the order to evacuate town. Now, there are very few
buildings left in the town, including a church, which is,

(01:48:41):
I'm pretty sure they based the movie, Silent Hill awful.
Because there's a church in there and that was the only safe
place for them to be in. Yeah, you're right and the
church there is one thing. I've been back in this area for
so long. Not knowing that Centralia is
like an hour and change away. I told you, it's me.
Could have gone there any time now?

(01:49:01):
We gotta wait till next winter. Not really.
No. So a part of the central area is
the graffiti Highway. Oh, yeah.
Yeah, I heard about that. Yeah, it was once Route 61 now
in abandoned highway where everyone has been except for me.

(01:49:21):
Apparently, we gotta go. Yeah.
And Brittany, I guess, we take my friend Jenna.
Yeah, in general joke. Oh, you know what we can't?
You could see, like, if you lookat pictures, I was in pictures.
Okay, as you can see like the splitting of the highway where
we were, the fire has reached injust a cracks and sometimes

(01:49:42):
actually smoke Rises up from it.That's the part I want to see
well as of last year we're not gonna be able to see it.
The highway was planned to be covered with dirt and have other
things that have a trees and other plants planted on it,
right. I heard that it was going to

(01:50:02):
just become a big like place butThen what is a road?
But a place that people just go,like if we just go there with
you guys. Yeah, we just gone drive through
the grass, but it's not a highway anymore.
It was just my way anymore. It's just a big old thing.
Also did that get like, you know, pushed to the side because

(01:50:22):
the Covenant, I'm not sure, I didn't see, we might still be
able to go before they do it when he was article.
I read about it. I didn't say anything about it.
Being pushed back because in 2020 when they posted it, right?
They didn't say anything about it was an April.
When they actually We had. Actually, it was back in, you
know, what's weird. We have a couple of different
abandoned highways, there's another one.

(01:50:44):
There's another one that's like right sort of next to a highway.
Yes. Abandon turnpike I think it's a
part of the turnpike that just starts turning off and then goes
nowhere. Yeah.
And it's like why do we do this?Look government.
I've definitely seen one before and I'm like oh they're going to
finish that and the answer is no.

(01:51:05):
Definitely not. It's abandon and there's just a
nice under past that, you know, people like to hang out and I
won't be there. Exactly.
So you All right, so that way, we know now is officially nobody
there, because a couple years ago, there were like 10 people
still there. Yeah.
That was in 2000, was the 2019 when what I read that the

(01:51:25):
population was, I'm not sure if anyway, so I would probably
still go to the ghost town. Yeah, that's where I want to go.
I don't want to see the highway but we probably can't get to the
highway, okay, because it's probably covered by dirt by now,
let's see population 9 as a 20-19.
I guess we'll find out soon because the census was just
done. Yes.

(01:51:46):
It's true. So if nobody is there anymore, I
guess there was no wonderful. Census report out.
Yeah. We'll see.
We'll see. But you know, that's a cool.
I yeah. I forgot about the graffiti
Highway though. That's like the anything know
what I've always wanted to do isthat people go and they take
pictures there and wintertime. Yeah.
Because the steam coming out of the ground is extra visible.

(01:52:08):
When it's so cold. This is true.
And you take cool pictures. I just remember being in high
school and I was, and I found out and I Was telling people
about Silent. Hills are like, you notice a
real Silent Hill, right? And I was like what, where it'll
like Pennsylvania in Pennsylvania.
I don't like where you're like, Colombia.
It was like that's like a half an hour away because I live in
Lancaster at this time. Yeah.
I'm like that's a half an hour away.

(01:52:30):
We can go there. Anytime I noticed that I
realized was so close. Yeah that's what they do.
Call it the real side of Hell toI so surprising I remember after
the movie came out reading something that said that the
film was based off of central. Yeah and then I had to learn
everything about it. But I did forget about the
graffiti Highway used to be the place where everybody would just

(01:52:50):
show up in chalk, all over everything and graffiti all over
everything. Absolutely.
That was a where our Urban explorers were go.
Yeah, I'm not really into urban exploring.
I'm here honest, there's a thinkthey're called, like, the proper
people or something on YouTube, the something people, and they
go into places all around the world that have been abandoned

(01:53:11):
and they get approval to go for the most part occasionally, they
just do what they want. But most of the time, they get
approval to go to these locations and it's just so
unnerving seeing something that was once.
Flourishing recently, they went to a movie theater, that was
only like 40 years old. I had been abandoned I can't and

(01:53:32):
it just looked so freaky. Do you know how many freakin
abandoned, amusement parks are in Pennsylvania, so many,
they've gone to some of those too many.
There's so many ways and Knoebels is still going.
Strong Scruples is going strong,it's never gonna close go.
Heck noble people go there, man,I go there more.
They go to Hershey Park. I actually really like the

(01:53:54):
place. It's just so freaking far away.
It really isn't like, well it's a stupid long, dirt, an hour and
a half from here or something. Not even.
I felt like when I was a kid, ittook forever to get there.
I'm sure in my little child brain, that was like a six hour.
Drive. I just wanna go to Knoebels
again and sit inside that stupidlittle cart for the haunted
house because I was so afraid when I was little, look, we went

(01:54:18):
there. What time?
What year did we go there? And it goes before.
Jaden was born. Was the last time I went to
Knoebels and when you are babe Iwas a young and what he was
here. Early twenties.
Okay. Yeah, true.
True true. Listen.
I think I'll go. I saw a picture of myself when I
was 23 and I was like, oh look at my face.
I was such a baby. So you when we later, all right,

(01:54:43):
yeah, we went to with there for,like the first time for me, and
I went through the haunted house, I was like this is some
bullshit. I remember being terrified of it
as a kid. I kept my eye screws almost the
whole time and I want to go through and look at it as a
grownup. Yeah.
I don't really do haunted houseseither because it's so I don't,
I just don't like people yellingat me.
He's like, I don't like people jumping out at me because I have

(01:55:04):
reflexes yelling at me for A money and I have reflexes and my
reflexes might tell me the punchyou.
I don't know. So I don't do those things
because I don't want to attack somebody trying to draw, just
slide your around exactly fine. But walking through a haunted
house or like that, Phil the screens and stuff like that.
No, thank you. I'm going to those because I

(01:55:25):
might go to jail for punching a worker and I'm sorry.
Anyway, who's gonna do my final story today?
I'm ready. All right and what's
Pennsylvania? There is or was is Pittsburgh
area. Okay.

(01:55:45):
Um Western Pennsylvania there isor was an urban legend of the
Green Man. Also known as Charlie no, face.
I don't know this person. Yeah, I know.
It's good, it's good. Yeah, I try to find ones that I
can't spoil, you know, I'm trying, yeah, I'm sorry, like

(01:56:10):
all my stories, like Brittany's,like, oh, wait a second, I do
this one. Very exciting for me when I know
things. Okay, so Legend, has it that?
There's a man that grows that glows green due to a lightning
strike, or he was shocked by in an industrial accident.

(01:56:34):
Who knows? But we know actually, I know,
I'll tell you what. Okay, apparently he would haunt
multiple places but like, multiple spots were kids used to
hang out or people, you hang outat, like Parks, her lookout
spots like that. But that make out spa and he

(01:56:58):
would Chase off, you know, parked cars and, you know,
people just loitering around theplace. now, some people call
this a legend, but This was an actual person is, this was an
actual person walking around. Was he just pretending to be a
haunted? No, no, no.

(01:57:19):
Why was he great? Um, so his name was Raymond
Robinson. Okay, look him up.
Did Raymond, just not enjoy fun.Is that the situation?
No, that's not why. In 1919 when he was 8 years old,
Raymond was reaching for bird's nest on On top of an electrical

(01:57:40):
pole when he was shocked with 11,000 volts of electricity,
which sent him falling to the ground, the shock burn his face
and arms, leaving his eyes and nose completely burned off or
out. Oh yeah.
So it was actually is actual be wasn't actual person.

(01:58:02):
Oh, this is sad. So, even though this was a
terrible injury for him, he was still in like, in good spirits.
He didn't let his injuries get him down, there's actually get
him down. Adulthood, he kept himself, he
kept himself home making walletsbelts you know during mads for
people just so he can make some type of small income.

(01:58:24):
What? He was a crafter.
Look, I love crafty people, he really only left his house in a
dead of night. To go for a walk as not to scare
people, not to scare anyone. These are really, really
thoughtful. Dude.
You really like against just walk in all this Sudden somebody

(01:58:47):
screams and runs away. Yeah, base terrible.
So this is when the story is with start beginning.
When he's doing his walks, high school, kids would see him
walking from the Cars along Route 351 and they just gonna go
spread the word. Is this guy, he's apparently he

(01:59:09):
was green because probably because of his like, flannel
day, he was wearing. Yeah, I just saw a picture, he's
wearing like a An army jacket. Yeah, there you go.
See ya now. Your right.
Is that, I guess it's a. What is that fabric?
Yeah, like Dickies that like fabric.
What is this like, you know likethose pants?

(01:59:30):
Yeah, khaki. Yeah, Green khaki there.
Yeah, I couldn't figure out whatit was called.
Army fatigues or something. There you go.
Yeah, he's wearing like, one of those jackets.
Sure. So many people knew Raymond,
many people who knew Raymond were very friendly to him, even
offering him beer for his walks.Or cigarettes, like a good time.

(01:59:51):
Like everybody who knew this guy.
Super cool people. People who didn't know Raymond,
they were scared of him. Of course you don't see him for
the first time and they'd run off and try to call the cops
saying. There's some buddy out there and
you need to come get him. But you know, his neighbors or

(02:00:12):
people in the neighborhood, theywould explain to these people.
Hey, don't call the cops. It's just Raymond.
This is what happened to him on use Only child and you know
this. Why he looks like this now, no
reason to be no reason to be afraid of him.
He's a cool guy. All that good stuff.
Um, I guess now if you see him, he's a fucking ghost.
Yeah, so some other people, unfortunately, we're cruel, they

(02:00:39):
would give him rides. They pick them up off the side
of the road when he's walking like, hey, I'll give you a ride
home. Only to take him somewhere, he
had no idea where he was going because he was blind.
Yes. Yeah.
This is a very wow, kind of picture.
Yeah. Yeah.
How do you elect people are amazing?

(02:01:02):
Their bodies? You mean yeah.
He legitimately like I see why they people referred to him as
no face like he really doesn't. He's a mouth obviously because
no eyes. Yeah like his skin healed over
that. So I'm like he's just Vibing
with the world. Yeah.
Yeah. Basically, anybody who knew him

(02:01:22):
would, you know, tell you how nice he was, and how awesome he
was. He did pass away from natural
causes and 1985 but the legend lives on wasn't even born yet.
No, neither of us were born. Yeah.
But yeah, but yeah, I guess theystill talk about him to this
day. There goes my pain, I was

(02:01:44):
looking for. I was like, what the hell is it?
My hair? Spooky, Pennsylvania.
Those are some stories that I like, I've looked at and I
wanted to do like earlier in thepodcast because You know, this
is where we're from. I want to, you know, give you a
little heads-up and that we likespooky stuff in this is what

(02:02:08):
raised us. Great stories.
They were good. Good good stuff.
Yeah. I definitely want to go Central.
I like this still a thing I wantto do but um is it the ghost
him? Ghost Town?
Yes, I'm pretty sure it was a ghost towns around.
Oh yeah we could probably visit a couple more.
Oh yeah. Buts in Charlie's the one that I
believe is an actually haunted, it's not haunted.
I don't want to go to one. That's actually haunted.

(02:02:29):
Well, good. Because we're going to get lost
there and by the ghost or something.
Don't get eaten by Ghosts. No.
Oh, oh Brian. I know.
Oh me. Anyway though, that's all we got
for you tonight. Yeah.

(02:02:53):
Or this morning for some of you,there's like a good 30 or 40
people who listened at like, 5 a.m.
As soon as the podcast comes out.
Bless you all. That's very lovely.
Yeah, I mean, if so, why get that time too?
But as because I'm working, I'm pretty sure is why you guys are
listening to get. Probably yeah, we got a couple.
Belen night crew, who are with you.
Yeah. Hey guys, thanks.
Thanks for listening to me and thank you.

(02:03:16):
If you listen, all the way through for this is last week,
was the second time that we broke into the top, 100, your
kind podcasts and America. So that's pretty fancy.
It was awesome. And as usual, I still sell all
kinds of jewelry and making Pride things for June.
Yes, I can't wait. I got you some pit.

(02:03:39):
I got some pens to. I'm going to be making a cool
looking. You can wear a pen.
I can wear pants. I got it here.
I got my that. You want me.
Give you one ear? Yes.
Just one ear. I'm good.
I think it's over there. Yes, Larry give you the one.
I just says, hi. I'm Pam.
There you go. Appreciate it.
And yeah, those are what we're doing these days.
You can always find us on creasewith Brian or caught podcasts on

(02:04:02):
Tick-Tock. You can watch us as we are
currently playing through the Each Resident Evil eight.
Yes, on Twitch foxy trainer every Sunday night.
Yeah, I try to get on at 6:00 6:30.
What do we do? Oh well we just had her fight
with our first plate with Lady Democratic demouth risk and

(02:04:25):
actually you know what it she says, da mattress.
She says yes, that's it, listen that again, yeah.
Like at the how dare you defile house dumb address or the How's
da mattress bloodline? Has been fooled by you.
How dare you and stuff like that?
Yeah, I missed that. I'll have to do that again.

(02:04:46):
When I watch somebody else play through it.
Yeah, but yeah. And yeah, if you have any if you
want to like leave us like an email.
Absolutely. If you send an email, definitely
shout you out. Just like we did last week was
last week or week before, I believe it was, it was whatever
it was. She responded to us.
She's like I said my name and I was like, of course.

(02:05:07):
Course. Yes, I think it was the week
before. Okay.
He was a Nica but yeah, caught podcasts at gmail.com.
There you go. And that's also there's like 300
people following on YouTube right now and I've only put up
two of the podcast. Look, I'm working on it, I'm
getting to it. I gotta work on getting some
sort of some software done, I can probably I don't know, we'll

(02:05:29):
get, we'll get to it. I swear over this break, I'll
get it done probably But yeah, you have yourself a good night
or good morning. Hey, good morning to my night
crew and we'll see you next week.
Yep. Bye.

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