The obsessive occult motherly love of Leonarda Cianciulli that drove her family apart

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:20):
Hey, everybody into your killer country.
My name is Brittany. Ransom!
Hey, my name is Brian winner andthis is when Killers, get
caught, a podcast devoted to deep dives, into the lives.
And psyches of the Killer's, we love to learn about Out each
week. Brian, I find a True Crime Story
that resonated with us, then I discuss one, well-known or
lesser known killer. Go deep into their childhood
lives methodology. And most importantly how they
got caught and then we get a little spooky and we'll learn

(00:42):
something about Cryptids and thesupernatural before we start
just another, reminder, our patreon is live.
There are 40 years from five to fifty dollars and how many
conspiracy Crypt episodes of we done so far. 66.
So yeah, you have a backlog of things to listen to if you're
into conspiracy theories and Learning what Brian I think
about it and More in line with that.

(01:05):
How much certain ones? Make me very angry, you know.
Yeah. What was that?
Like, that's three and a half hours of Kanye, sorry
three-and-a-half, extra hours ofcontent.
So if you absolutely love us youshould listen to us on patreon
to and you can buy, you can support us by going to
patreon.com when Killers get caught, or you can buy a birch
at our website at when Killers, get caught.com.

(01:26):
And this weekend True Crime. I want to talk about the
murtaugh's. Oh my God.
Okay, okay, it's it's popping upin my circle because I got
friends, down in South Carolina,everybody asks me on every live
stream. So, for those of you who might
not know or might be abroad, there is a mystery unraveling

(01:48):
and Hampton County, South Carolina.
So the murders obvious wealthy established family known for
their presence in the legal. Like, will your community.
And it wasn't even until 2019, that anybody really knew
anything about them. They were just this quiet rich
family. So in 2015, there is a young

(02:08):
gay, man named Stephen Smith, who is found in the middle of a
County Road. It's ruled a hit-and-run, but
the corner argues that this is not a hit-and-run.
This seems like a homicide. Hmm, hmm.
That's one of the ones tied to this family.
According to several people who were interviewed the victim,

(02:29):
who's 19 could have been killed by Buster murtagh.
That would be currently deceasedBuster.
Who is the son of Elder Murtaugh?
He's the older of two sons and his family name was mentioned
nine, different times in the - report on Steven Smith's, aha.
See you getting interested. I see you, Brian.

(02:52):
So Richard, Alec murdaugh attorney resigned, four days
ago, five days ago, and he was accused of siphoning millions of
dollars from the law firm that was started by his
great-grandfather on Saturday ofthat same week.
He called 911 to report that he had been shot in the head while
he was changing a tire on the side of the road.

(03:14):
The head wound ended up being simple superficial, and he was
airlifted to the hospital. He's been released, and now he's
saying that he's going to rehab.This is It's just Madness.
Bouquet February, 26, 2008 een. Glorious Satterfield died and a
trip and fall accident in Hampton County and court
documents named Richard. As the only defendant in the

(03:38):
case, his insurance paid the 57 year olds family, five hundred
thousand dollars for personal liability in a wrongful death
suit, February 24th, 2018. Mallory Beach goes.
After a boat crash in which Paulmurder was driving a week lady.
Her body was found April 18th, 2019, Palmer doll was charged

(04:02):
with boating Under the Influence.
He was piloting, captaining thisboat three times the legal limit
the boat was owned by his fatherand it was a The name of the
boat was bad, boys. Oh my God and it currently
resides in. Edisto South Carolina, cringe on

(04:25):
June 7th. This year, Alec murder, Richard,
Alec murder, discovers the body of his wife, Maggie 52 and his
son. Paul 22 at the family's
Seventeen Hundred Acre hunting lodge and Colton County, three
days before then there had been a court-ordered mediation in the
wrongful death suit against Paul.

(04:48):
And that had been canceled and the case was going to a real
trial. No, hearing, we're going
straight to trial June 8th, Colton County officials released
a statement at this time. There's no danger to the public
and the family offered 100 thousand dollar information for
the like reward for their deaths.

(05:08):
Then June 23rd this year at 30 shared that based on the
information gathered in the murder investigation.
They said it looked they were looking into the 2015 death of
Stephen Smith in Hampton County my God and then a couple days
ago on Nancy Grace a reporter named, Matt Harris said that
before her death, his wife, Maggie Murdock, had hired a

(05:30):
forensic accountant. There is literally now a podcast
just called the murdaugh family.Murders, people who are
following this. Yeah, people want my opinion on
it but I'm like, this is a big thing that's happening.
It's happening right now in the midst of like, yeah.

(05:51):
Can you imagine just being alivewhen these big things?
Oh my God, it's crazy. Well, we were when we were
little, I know we were talking about the Monica Lewinsky and
yeah, Clinton stuff. I remember that.
But I was little, you know, sale, even same thing and just
really enough for recording today, on September 11th.
I was in. I was my first week of high

(06:11):
school when September 11th happened.
Yeah, that was my, my my last year.
Yeah, that's your middle school.So yes, this is so weird.
Like these are all things that they happen.
We were younger but I'm like This murder case.
It's not done yet. No.
Gonna get blown wide open and I'm very interested in seems so
wild. Because here's my thing, there's
their kid be coincidence that this family is tied to so much

(06:34):
stuff. My bet is on Richard Alec.
Hmm, I think he's the center of the problem here and I think he
got everybody else hurting his family.
Yeah. I mean, I sounds like his sons
were, you know, typical affluenza teams did wrong stuff,
and then he He got rid of it with my covered it up.
Yeah. Be covered it up.
I mean some people are saying, you know maybe the families of

(06:58):
some of those people who were killed Conspired against him.
That seems a little far-fetched to me, though.
It would be incredible, if that was really what it was.
I don't think it's that far-fetched.
I can see that happening. You could see it like, okay,
Rich family, and this in our town, kills someone in your
family, or in extended family. I don't see my family because my

(07:21):
family is coming. Am I think your family's gonna
hire someone to try and kill him?
No, they're gonna come hunt themthemselves?
Oh, wow. I need you on my team that's
because I don't have a whole lotof family, so I need somebody to
hunt. If I get harmed, they got you.
But yeah, I had to put it all in, like a little chronological

(07:44):
order in my notes because I was like, this is becoming a lot of
information now that that's crazy.
And I remember his, his accidental, his shooting in the
hand, someone shot him in the head.
Yeah. And then, I remember someone
saying that it seemed like it was staged.
All right. Great.
Because like they were talking about that on the life should

(08:05):
neither. Did I think you heard us talking
about that? Yeah, it honestly because it
only grazed his head. Yeah, it does kind of sound like
me, but, I mean, they would havetested his hands for gunpowder.
Yeah. Maybe he hired someone to do,
right? Maybe, I mean, he does have the
money to do it, but I'm interested in the fact that
like, he gets out of the hospital and immediately I'm
going to rehab, I'm going to rehab.
Also my company, my family business is filing a lawsuit

(08:31):
saying that, I siphoned, Millions upon millions of
dollars from our business He stole from him.
So there's so much going on. How do you even do that?
But I just feel you know, obviously feel bad for the
extended family. Like Jesus.
There's only one living son left.
Mmm. Yeah It's gotta feel so bad his
older brother and his mom died. A couple of months ago and

(08:54):
everything's looking like it's pointing to his father as the
reason why it happened or the one that did it.
That's just I've been watching on Discovery plus.
Yeah, this show called living with evil.
Like, evil lives here. I can't remember the exact so
familiar, but it's about people who were close to people, who

(09:14):
did horrible things. It's, it's My empathy is
overflowing here. I feel so bad for those people
like, or somebody being like, mybrother did this horrible stuff?
And I never realized, I thought he was always joking, right?
Yeah, he was telling me like he wanted.
He came in and was like, I killed somebody, and she was

(09:34):
like, whatever, shut up. And then she finds out Ten Years
Later that he's implicated in another murder and the police
are like has your brother ever done anything?
And finally, she's like, well yeah, one time like 10 years ago
he told me. He murdered a girl when we lived
here. And they go look into it and
there's like bodies in the backyard like I just feel, so

(09:56):
awful, you feel awful for everybody connected to it.
It's one of the reasons why whenI try and do my stories on
Tick-Tock. I try to like give like after or
even when I do them here I try to explain like what happened
after this happen. Yeah.
How did this affect these other people?
What happened? What went on with their lives
but interest I mean not surprisingly.
It's sometimes really hard to find information about those

(10:18):
people. They change their names.
Take off the radar. They don't want to be contacted
by anybody in the True Crime community and you know what?
I'll give you your peace. Yeah they don't want that.
Dredged up at all. Yeah I understand that.
Interestingly enough, the woman who was dating what's his name?
I don't like him. Ted Bundy, she has.

(10:41):
She collects all of the books about her and him.
She just wants to know what people think about it.
Oh, she's like remarried to a another person.
She's just like this was a weirdtime in my life and I don't
know. He was thinking about.
Yeah, she just wants to know, and I think that's so
intriguing, because I feel like if I was in her shoes that I was
dating, someone who killed like,36 women confirmed, I would just

(11:04):
be, like, I give up on dating also.
I don't want to hear his name ever again.
Want to hear my name in his kneeand say yeah but she finds the
the fervor interesting, huh? I got yelled at on YouTube for
writing about doing a video. About the Hart family murders.
And I was like the mom of three of the kids, the birth mom of

(11:25):
three of the kids asked me to cover it.
She's like, you're over here faking crying.
I was like, yeah, it's the firstvideo that ever recorded where I
teared up and specifically at the part where I said that two
of the children's bodies have never been found.
I was like, I only did it because she asked me to,
otherwise, I wouldn't have covered it because it's still a
traumatic case to think about. I don't understand why people

(11:48):
adopt children. And then do horrible, do
horrible things to them. And like we made fun of that
lady who, like adopted that kid on YouTube and then gave them
back to Asia. But like, you know what, maybe
that's the better thing, if you realize you can't do the job
past that child back to the foster care system.
Yeah. Unfortunately.

(12:09):
It sucks, but at least it'll be alive construe.
But we got way off topic. Sorry, tell me about your true
crime case of the week that you found that happened recently.
Okay, well a warning goes out toeverybody in Manhattan.
Oh, women wait, another, where we just talking about a serial

(12:31):
killer in Georgia, we were but this isn't a serial killer,
okay? This is a I guess you would call
him as hero bro, /. Oh no.
Yeah. So those are common.
Amen. Riding on a moped is going
around and groping women in Manhattan, that lower Manhattan.

(12:55):
One of his victims was actually an 11 year old girl.
Oh no. Oh yeah.
That's atrocious. Yeah.
So it's been happening. It says, at least nine victims.
Hmm, since August 2nd. Oh wow.

(13:15):
So only, I'm like, a month and ahalf.
Yeah. So what he does is he I guess he
rides around, he circles his victim like as stupid creepy
shark. Hey like okay creepy pervert
shark Kirk and baby pervert shark, got you, and then he, you

(13:35):
know, he's on his moped into theground.
Then he goes in, and he just grabs a breast or whatever he
can, and he speeds off. There are pictures of this man.
There's actually a video of him too.
You can't see his face because he's wearing like, you know,

(13:56):
mask in a hood but he rides a red and black moped.
And there he is, there he is. All you see his eyes.
Well yeah, criminals are using the mask mandate to their
advantage and there's less people on the street than there
would be used to. Like there used to be, this is
true. So there's probably much less

(14:18):
traffic in New York because a lot of people are still working
from home. So you have less Witnesses.
And it's easier for you to get away.
Think about it. You've been in New York.
A lot of times it's near impossible for even a green
light for you to cry. Oh yeah.
To go. So, like normal Times Square 2
years ago, time, you know, around those areas are rough,

(14:39):
but now it's very empty. I've seen videos of people
walking around New York. It's a lot emptier than it was.
I would love that. I was there one time for
Christmas hated it. Never going back around
Christmas. Too many people.
I hate busyness. But So yeah, his first, his
first attack was on August 2nd. It was a 34 year old woman, just

(15:02):
freaking weird and then his latest attack Was a September
7th. The but slasher of Virginia got
this weird. Yeah.
Like what are you doing? And Crime Stoppers NYPD is the
Crime. Stoppers are offering it.
Three thousand five hundred dollar reward.

(15:25):
For any tips, leading to his capture of Stoppers is
efficient. Oh yeah, definitely earlier this
year, this Hispanic lady was just walk in and somebody like
walked up and grabbed one of herkids.
She ran over and she yanked likeshe pulled her child out of the
window of the car. Hmm.
Like a badass. Yeah.
And then Crime Stoppers like posted the video of that

(15:45):
happening. And like, within like ours, they
had one of the guys in the car and they were like, who are you
there with? And he Like I was there with my
dad and somebody else's in the car who didn't know they were
going to do it. And that person just drove away
and I was like, listen. Gotta love when the community
comes together. It's amazing.

(16:07):
So, If somebody knows who he is,they gonna find out.
Yeah, I mean his youngest was the 11 year old but baby There's
a 15 year old girl as well. That guy gropes.
Oh I don't know if he's targeting younger women but it's

(16:29):
my these seem like opportunity attacks, you know.
Yeah, he sees someone, he likes and he's just like, well it's
the issue that we have in the states where they're like she's
tall has breasts obviously womanand I'm like no that's not how
that works at all. I was like 5, 8 and 10 years
old. I've been the same height since

(16:50):
I was like 10. Just because I'm a tall.
Does it mean I'm a grown-up? Yeah.
Don't assume my age. Listen, there's always says like
situations where, you know, people are like well you know,
she wished she told you she was 18 and like maybe you should
talk to somebody before you likeengage with them in that way.

(17:10):
Yeah. Like have a conversation.
Who knows? But I would never take anyone
who I felt looked a little youngat face value.
Let me see that idea because youreal quick, make sure that's
real. I'm a card you before we can go
on a date. That was definitely interesting.
Yeah, awful. Terrible.

(17:30):
Just keep an eye out and big cities, have a lot of weirdos.
Yeah, I have a lot of horror stories of late night buses from
Philadelphia. People just get on there and do
weird stuff. I imagine I can imagine.
So yeah. Well this week's episode is

(17:53):
about we're going to Europe again but not hungry.
Actually going to Italy. Okay, so this guy is early
Italian. Serial killer, who was a woman,
she's known as the soap maker ofcoraggio, and she murdered seven
women in the city of Karachi. Oh, Reggio Emilia and turn their

(18:17):
bodies into soap and tea cakes. Yeah, I kind of figured.
That's where this was going. It's an injury.
It's actually really perplexed. In case of a woman who is very
mentally ill. Assessed with witchcraft and
folk magic and human sacrifice and Superstition of the occult.

(18:39):
You gotta love it. A little little crisscross with
what year usually talking about.It's good.
So, her name is lonardo Qin, qiuLi, and she was born in
Montella, Aveeno and South Italyon April 1884, her parents well,
okay, I know I only said one line, but her mom was a million

(19:00):
did no fee. And she was considered to be one
of the most beautiful women in Montella.
She was young. She was near the age when women
get married. She's a great reputation and her
parents were receiving all theseDowry requests.
She was set to be like the ideal1894 woman of Italy.
So not his father Mary Ellen, Mariano was not a good man.

(19:21):
He was poor and so was his family.
He was older mean and transient.They only met at all because of
her bad fortune. Honestly.
Murrieta saw her in a crowd and developed a very unhealthy
obsession with her, he began following her around Montella
and he would watch her as she enjoyed her, high-class life and

(19:43):
happiness and he actually reallyhate her.
He decided he was going to take her down a Peg and ruin her and
make her just like him. A man, that nobody wanted.
Oh my God, this whole Carol. So one night Amelia had gone on
a chaperone dinner with a man who wanted to marry her.
And it was pretty custom at the time that one of the family like
half of the family was there so Amelia's family wasn't there.

(20:06):
The her suitors family was therewatching their date.
Okay. And the dinner wasn't that far
from her house so she kind of Waved the man and his family off
and walked home alone Mariano grabbed her and dragged her into
a field. At first, she thought she was
being robbed and so she explained to him, like, I don't
have a wallet and I have a purse.

(20:28):
She was very young and naive andshe had no idea about sex other
than this is a people. This is the thing people do
after weddings. She wasn't proud, she probably
wasn't entirely sure what was happening to her other than just
she was in pain, she Was assaulted.
She like I said, she understand what happened to her.

(20:49):
She left the field and walked home in pain.
She was definitely a shame because she was grow.
She grew up very Catholic, she cleaned herself off before her
family could see her, you know, throughout her clothes because
it was covered in mud and blood.And she continued talking any
money. She didn't wanna let her mom

(21:11):
know, right? She went to town events and
Rihanna watched from the sidelines that he was like, did
it work? He wanted to see if she was
gonna call the police and he knew that he had made some
effect on her because whenever she would be walking in town and
see him her face would turn white and she would just

(21:31):
immediately walk away. We so she saw his face.
She knew it was she knew it was.Wow, you're just out there
braised and boy. Okay.
It was until she began to show that things changed her mother
noticed, it first and her parents confronted her and we're
like Which of these boys that you've been cordoned, got you

(21:51):
pregnant and she was like, no, no, it's not like that.
Mary threatened to go house to house to all of the guys that
she had been talking to. And Grill all of them.
And finally, she told her parents that she had been raped
by an older man in town on her way home from a date and that
his name was Mariano. Her parents knew immediately who

(22:13):
this guy was? And they were pretty upset, but
the next night they brought him to their house to speak with him
and it was, how are you going tomake this, right?
Her parents are like you have tomarry him.
No. He, of course accepted because
he's like, bet my ticket to the big times, they rushed the

(22:36):
ceremony. And this totally breaks Amelia's
heart and dream of having a wedding and all these things.
She thought she was going to have the two hadn't even spoken
since the night that they saw ithappen.
And she didn't talk to him during the wedding either.
And then her parents quietly, pushed her out of their house

(22:56):
into a crappy home and the poorest part of town, it was
much less than she was used to and even less than Mariano had
growing up. So it was a major culture shock
Place had no furniture. Bathroom was an outhouse that
they shared with other people onthe Block Mariano, did he have a
job? What you doing?

(23:16):
Why make him marry her? Why make her marry him?
Because being a woman without a husband who had a baby?
I'm here. An outcast.
I don't care what he did. Oh my God, and then and then you
make it her move in with him andhis crappy house.
You could his meat as move into your guest house or something
like that. Know your ass is how he was, but
they were rich and he was a bum.Can't have the bomb.

(23:38):
Okay, fine. Here's what I'm thinking.
Groaning, the chinchilla named keep him at his house and they
stay at their house but they're still married, no fee.
Named Amelia was too noisy, justjust keep them separately,
living together and then you're good to go.
Listen, at that point. I wouldn't have even let my
thought process would have been a million is really ill right

(23:58):
now. She would have had that baby
insight and private. Hmm, Nobody would know.
And I would very quietly in the middle of the night as her
mother take that baby to an orphanage.
She would recover and then we would go back to accepting them,
dowries. Oh my God, I'm just saying of

(24:21):
the time. That's what they're doing of the
time of the time. Yes, that's what I guess.
That's what they should have done.
But of course, you come across the next part.
Obviously Amelia had no desire to have sex with her rapist and
so he continued to rape her, andhe would beat her when the house
wasn't clean enough. Because he thought she was being

(24:42):
defiant because she didn't like him.
He didn't realize that. Literally.
This like, 19 year old girl was raised in a household where she
never cleaned anything in her entire life.
She had servants dummy. You ruined her life jacket.
From the jump. The neighbors saw this is like

(25:06):
one of the wealthy Elite kind of, you know, getting their
comeuppance. So high society turn their backs
on her. Poor people were like, we don't
really want to listen to the rich girl, complain about her.
Husband beating her her mom, like she would sometimes go see
talk to her mom, her mom listen to her and was just like, I

(25:27):
really can't help you. Amelia why not?
And the worst part is that they kept saying the same thing you
gave up your Purity to the wrong, man.
I'm like David up. I didn't do nothing.
So I explained all that to explain you, that this is the
world that Leonardo was born into April 18th 1894, okay?

(25:48):
Mariana wasn't even there. He was off.
Drinking, Amelia was all alone. She ended up walking out into
the street and like finally saw someone saw how Pitiful.
She was and sent a midwife to her.
The labor was long and hard and she almost she barely registered
that she even had a child. The first few days is pretty
traumatic for her. She kind of laid in the house

(26:09):
with the baby attached to her and she was just like, hmm.
He really did ruin my life. Now, Mariano and Amelia, and the
baby have to move a lot over thenext couple of years.
Mainly because of non-payment ofrent, Mariana didn't seem to

(26:30):
care. He'd find another slum to move
into set up shop. Go drinking Amelia, and
Leonardo. Only really surprised like
survive because of the kindness of the church.
The local Catholic Church would reach out to get a million
supplies or food and she found that to be rather shameful but
she needed the help. She didn't really have a lot of

(26:50):
power as a parent or in her relationship and I think, you
know where this is going. Hmm, based on some of our recent
podcast, lovely episodes that you've done before we can Nanny.
And so a lot of that, powerlessness manifested itself
as anger and frustration towardsLeonardo.

(27:13):
She was like, literally Darter was beat for the smallest
mishaps, even when she was just a toddler constantly.
Critiqued, and every awful thingthat a million wanted to say to
her husband, she pushed towards the child.
She would rage across her daughter during the day and then
get raped at Night by her husband.

(27:35):
It was like one time Mariano didn't come home and she was
kind of relieved. She'd even noticed it first
because he would go on these drinking binges.
But finally, after a couple days, not because she cared
about him because she felt like she had to.
She grabbed the baby and went out into the streets to look for
him. Finds him in one of his friends
house. He's sick feverish passed out,

(27:58):
hadn't woken up. They were to Ford portal for the
doctor but honestly I don't think she would have given a
damn sent to keep that man alive.
I wouldn't his friends. Picked him up.
Took him back to the house. There, he stayed in his All a
coma until he died. Giving Amelia the respite of
being a widow. Well she is she's free from now

(28:21):
she can have the lifestyle she always wanted right.
Yeah right. No.

(28:41):
I'll give that a second though. Lonardo didn't really have a lot
of memories of him because he died when she was like three.
She did. Remember the funeral though, and
how her mother had her stand by the graveside as both?
Okay, I can tell you a lot of this is good.
Come from Leonardo's, Memoirs that she wrote while she was in
prison, though. There's some of it that I leave

(29:02):
out because I feel like she embellished a little bit.
Okay. She talked about A being like a
Sex Fiend, like a month, just the most seductive woman of all
time. I'm like, we're going to leave
those details out Leonardo because I don't think that
really happened. A lot of other people don't
either. I compared her story to other
people's stories of her and the things that didn't line up have

(29:23):
not been at it today is but I guess.
Okay, cool that what she said inher Memoir, was that when the
funeral was over, Her mother spat on his grave and said that
man was a pig and it's the for the best that we're rid of him.
Yeah. So Amelia thought she'd get to

(29:43):
go back to her family's estate because Marianas dead.
Yeah, that didn't happen. Her family had turned their back
on her entirely and locals were like kind of treating her like a
cautionary. Tale don't have sex before
marriage or you'll end up like amillion Jin Zhu Li I was
assaulted motherfuckers. American really only do one

(30:05):
thing and that was look for a new husband.
Sure. There was nobody Rich who was
going to take her but middle class.
Hey, we can do that. This wasn't really good for a
million either because she kept meeting man.
Who either wanted to have sex with her before they got into
their arranged marriages. Or they were kind of defective
because they maybe they'd already gone to prison.
So they were unmarriageable men.Okay after a while she was just

(30:29):
like yeah I'm sure she was just like you know what?
Who at this point they already think poorly of Of me, I might
as well give them something to talk about.
So Amelia second husband. Well he at least had a job,
okay. He had impressed him Million by
spending very lavishly on her and she didn't take that as a
red flag because he very frequently spent all of his

(30:52):
money very quickly after they got married.
This was almost worse than of itwith Mariano for leonarda
because it was very feast or famine with her stepdad.
Her mom fed her based on the food that she and her husband
brought back from the meals thatthey got when they went out on
the town. Her mom's still abused her.

(31:13):
Her stepfather didn't seem to really register her at all.
Not surprisingly when Leonardo was not even a teenager.
The first time she tried to killherself, she tried to hang
herself in the Raptors Rafters of their Farmhouse.
The news came apart because it was made of dirty bedding.
She did Crush, her, larynx temporarily.

(31:35):
So she couldn't even talk for like a week, but it wasn't like
anybody noticed because they allignored her, she tried.
Again A year later, trying to hang herself.
Again she survived Amelia only seem to care about Leonardo when
Amelia start talking about marriage because for the time

(31:56):
Leonardo was considered to be very beautiful.
Just like her mother. And a lot of men were becoming
interested. The Montel Community didn't seem
to hold leonarda accountable forher, mother's mistakes.
And so wealthy men were willing to talk and potentially Mary
Leonardo. Now this starts when she's like
16 Okay, she's a young pure beautiful.

(32:19):
Girl. She's from the Denali bloodline.
They're very wealthy. She'd been raised without money
so she didn't have any of the like snobbish behavior that the
lot of the rich girls in town had, right?
Right. Kind of acting like a regular
person. So Amelia very happily went on
all of these dates with her daughter, enjoying the expensive
meals and the nice places. She was having so much fun that

(32:43):
she didn't realize that Leonardowas dating in secret.
And that's that's a big problem.Oh well.
Here's the problem though. Remember I told you that the the
men interested in marrying her story when she's 16.
Yeah. All of a sudden it's like 1917
L, 23 years old and a million won't pick a husband for her.

(33:03):
This is because why she was enjoying it, she was just wanted
to. She wanted.
She wanted to have the experience that got taken from
her. I mean, Okay, vicariously
through your child. Well, the problem with that is
we are was like, what are we doing here at your, you know?
Yeah, be feet. You waste waste my time.
Come on now. Well, and she definitely was

(33:27):
aware a million was definitely aware that Leonardo was not
really fond of her. Now you know it was not the type
to just like not listen to her mom that's not the world they
lived in. So even though a million knew
that her daughter was Restless, she still was dragging her feet.
So Leonardo chose her own husband.

(33:48):
His name was Rafael pants Rd. He was a couple years older than
her and he worked as a clerk. It was a low-paying government
job, but it was stable income. Unlike anything that she had
seen from any other man in her life, right?
And she didn't really care aboutmoney anyway.
She didn't exactly have a lot ofit to begin with, so she didn't
really crave it as an adult. Amelia was like, who is this?

(34:09):
Not rich, man, trying to Pros mydaughter.
He tried the right way. He really did.
He like approached Amelia and was like, I would like to marry
your daughter and Amelia was like, she just laughed at him
and let it go. What it's really messed up
because if she had taken the time to talk to leonarda things
probably wouldn't have gone thispoorly because what was

(34:31):
happening, is that Leonardo's like you're making these
decisions for my life and you'renot including me in them, right?
Yeah. And you're trying to keep me
with you and you're not letting me leave or grow up.
This is the first time that Leonardo disobeys her mother.
She goes to Rafael tells him. I accept your proposal.

(34:52):
I don't need her acceptance of it, then they go and they get
married at a very small wedding with just his family and her
friends. Okay, she goes home to pick up a
few things Amelia's there. Now Leonardo expects her mother
to hit her, she expects her mother, they yell.

(35:12):
What happens is actually worse, okay?
She curses her daughter's marriage.
Oh no. This is terrible.
It is Leonardo took those words with her and it really informed
like the rest of her life. She was convinced that this

(35:35):
curse was real and it was going to ruin her life.
Terrible. Even, they live in a really
small town. She tried to avoid Amelia's best
she could and Raphael was a niceguy, but he also very much

(35:56):
struggle to deal with Leonardo'sBehavior.
Like she would cook dinner and if she burned something, she
would cry whenever he tried to help her.
Like if you lean towards her to reach for something she would
Flinch, of course, what we know that is is PTSD today but he
didn't understand that. He was just like, why is she so

(36:19):
Attic like what is going on? Yeah, Leonardo started having
seizures whenever she got too emotional and she didn't go to
the doctor because she was like this is obviously a
manifestation of my mother's curse.
Rafael tried to support her, butthings weren't going so great
for him. Either he turned a lot of
enemies by marrying her because his bosses were friends of the

(36:43):
Town Elite and they were pissed that they hadn't gotten to marry
her. Oh my God, all of his job
advancement got ignored at the end that the government job.
So Leonardo turn to the Romani for help.
She went to a fortune teller. And the fortune teller told her

(37:04):
your mother's curse will not kill you, you're going to live a
very long life and you will outlive all of your children.
Leonarda consider that to be theworst.
Most terrible thing that could happen.
Yeah. And three years into her
marriage. It came true.
Amelia had told her you were conceived the first time.

(37:26):
Anything happened, solely an artist whom she'd be just as
fertile but it took three years and when she realized she was
pregnant, she panicked. And unfortunately, the stress
made her have more seizures and the seizures meant.
She fell down a lot and she had a miscarriage.
Three months later. Raphael very quickly.
Realizes we're not going to be happy in Montella and he moves

(37:48):
them in 1920. We hop on the train and they
just went, they stopped a coupleplaces but they finally settled
and Lauria Potenza in 1921 Rafael was raised there and they
had enough money for a small house.
They were 100 miles away from Amelia, the climate was warmer
and a lot of Leonardo, stress disappeared.
She even started to think that maybe the curse wasn't all that

(38:10):
real. They tried for a baby this time.
And she gave birth to Giuseppe in 1922 he was healthy, the
labor was easy, but they were broke.
So she had to apply for jobs to,but no one really wanted to hire
her because they like to hire women at all.
Then there was a weird undercurrent of like, women who

(38:31):
work are like not to be trusted.It was just some women are
supposed to be in the home and if she's out working, she
obviously has money and she can get up to trouble.
What do they do? Does that mean when I have money
and I can get up trouble anyway,and guilt in trouble with money,
you don't have money. Can you get up to trouble?

(38:52):
Yeah. Not really Union to not sit in
your house like a housewife. Would you vote?
Do it the house, okay? But housework is still leave the
house and get into something. She could become a murderer,
born Giuseppe, she can leave Giuseppe there for a little bit.
He's right. You cannot leave a newborn baby
alone. What is wrong with you?
You have two children. You know how this goes?

(39:14):
Oh man, okay fine what it out? That the newborn they should
have to do more and she could get into a lot of trouble
because she can go and leave thehouse.
Anyway, you don't have to have monies, but the situation is
that she has just that be to worry about, and they need
money. Either way.
All she can get whirligig jobs bartending, being a waitress,

(39:35):
she made almost no money. The noise at the establishments
made her feel anxious. She's tried to push through it
but she started having the seizures again.
Her husband's like come home, just stay home.
Leonardo gets pregnant again, miss Carey's again, this
happened over and over over the coming years.

(39:56):
She successfully did have two little girls and another boy but
they got sick. One a little girls had bad
lungs. Little boy got rashes, little
girl died as a toddler and her brother right after The doctors
couldn't understand why and no one really wanted to do an
autopsy on a baby. So they didn't know if that was

(40:16):
a genetic thing, they were just kind of like we're just gonna
not do anything. So what would happen was this
cycle and I blame Rafael on this, she would be like super
grieving and then she would start to get better and Raphael
would be like you will have a baby.
Oh. So they would try she would get

(40:39):
pregnant. She was been as long as she was
pregnant stressing. Have the miscarriage because she
was constantly having seizures, or they be born and she see
them, get sick and die. She lost five more children,
this way. Like, even the best of us would
struggle with like one, but at this point now, there are six

(41:02):
children who have died and two miscarriages.
Leonardo's know what to do, but what she is going to do is to
focus on these two children thatare alive.
It's just that be. And there's one little girl who
still here. Also in her writings, never
talks about the names of the other children Giuseppe's, the
only kid she ever. Super cared about that is the

(41:24):
one child. She loved more than anything
else. So you're just going to hear me
say, girl boy Giuseppe. Okay, I don't listen, it was
weird. She was weird.
We're just gonna go along with it.
So her husband definitely sees like, This is an unhealthy

(41:44):
Obsession happening and he's just like, he can't, he knows,
he can't go over and like physically, take like the
six-year-old from her. So he's just like, okay look, A
family of four can survive on, just my little clerking come.
My little secretary income, and she doesn't want to do it.

(42:07):
She's convinced if she leaves them alone, someone will die.
And you would think being able to just open a door and be like,
you're still there. Would like make her feel better,
she could confirm those feelingswhenever she had them.
Nope, it only made it worse, anytime, one of her children,
coughed, or whimpered or cried? She would rush over to them,

(42:30):
like, wake them up to make sure they were still breathing.
It was very intense. Rafael like, is he pushes for
work, though? He's like, okay, listen.
My wife has some, a delicate temperament.
And so, the one job that is theyseem okay with it is she's a
wife. So she probably knows how to
clean the bank needs. Someone to come at night and

(42:53):
clean everything. It actually worked really well
for her because it was after hours, the kids were asleep.
She didn't have to be around anybody.
Yeah. And the bank was really cheap,
instead of buying already made cleaning supplies, they just
bought the raw materials and shehad to do it all herself.
Oh, which is how she learned, how to make her own soaps and

(43:16):
how she became quite good at it.Okay.
It was kind of one of those things where people who are
anxious like to work with their hands and I do that sometimes
and it soothes you was kind of like that for her.
So as she's working, you know, these first couple weeks she's
getting all these ideas in her head, we're going to save money.
This is going to be great and she gets her first paycheck.

(43:39):
It's not that much money as she realizes, this is just enough.
For the two of them, to the fourof them to live.
She's not gonna be able to save anything, she's not going to be
able to get a better house. Just survive.
Yeah, and the job did. Pull her back from the obsessive

(44:00):
Edge. She was on, but she was, by no
means any better mentally. And then, while she was at work,
Under Rafael's, watch her 10th child died.
No, no one came to tell her because they knew what was going
to happen. She came home exhausted from a
night of cleaning and found thatone of her other daughter had

(44:24):
died. Following day, she laid the
child arrest, in a pauper's grave and went to work again the
following night. I imagine Rafael probably was a
little, like, when's it gonna happen?
When's it gonna happen. Yeah, eggshells the whole time.

(44:45):
Just well, what happened next isthat she was like, you know
what, if we had money for a doctor then our kids would be
better. Like the kids, you know, just
happy won't die because we can'tafford for someone to look at
him. And so, one night shortly after
have child died, she created a fake account in the bank records

(45:09):
and she just wrote in a number that she felt would be a secure
amount for her family. She's like, listen, thanks,
nice. Just a clerical error.
What are you talking about? Wait.
Hold on, hold on. She created a fake bank account
for her family. She went into their records,
which were on paper. This is pre, you know, so

(45:34):
anything digital and she made anaccount for herself and she was
rolling an amount that she yes. But the bank wasn't going to
have that amount whoo-hoo. The bank was not happy that it
all the being found out, they found it real fast, okay?
And in fact, one day when she wasn't like one day time she

(45:57):
came to like, pull the money. Hmm.
And the police were there. And she was escorting to prison
charged with fraud convicted andput in prison in 1927.
Now in the 1920s, Italian law said that women were supposed to
have the same sentences as men even, but the problem was there
weren't that many women in prison.

(46:19):
And the men's prisons were like real intense.
They were like hard labor camps.What they didn't have proper
place to put women, but what they did have was stuffed with
the Catholic Church owned solelyneurotic and sent to this place.
That's a former nunnery still owned by the Catholic Church
still run by nuns. It's pretty awful.

(46:42):
And the nuns actually would justadd years to women's sentences
if they wanted to what the Listen, Stephanie was doing
whatever you need to add more years to her sentence.
That's how it was with your sister and just doing enough,
Leonardo had lived, 23 years with Amelia.

(47:05):
So she knew absolutely had to deal with the older cruel women.
She actually only ended up serving 18 months and was sent
home to Rafael and just happy Where she had decided while she
was in prison. That she was the only one who
could take care of Giuseppe and make sure he was safe.
Now while she's gone, family areoutcasts Rafael loses his job

(47:28):
because of her laughing. Sorry, family name sullied.
The rest of his family have to ignore him because they do want
to be connected to Leonardo June.
When she gets out of prison, hisfamily's like listen, y'all
gotta go. So they just like sneak, send
them some money. And they leave like the cover of
Darkness. Raphael was pretty tired of

(47:52):
dealing with Leonardo's Mental Health.
And he kind of just got to a place where he was like a hair.
Just do this, you do this and you do this and he was just kind
of like directing her. She wasn't too happy about it
because it reminded her mom but then he got a job in last
Sidonia avellino and the family moved South, that's the journey
was very similar to other small towns.

(48:12):
They lived in a really rural butthis job came with a house that
overlooked the acento river and it was pretty nice Giuseppe and
his friends like to fish by the river.
You know, didn't have to work. And so she just focused on
taking care of the home. She's 36 years old and 1930.
Oh my God. She did it on her side.
She got pregnant again. She stretched herself out

(48:35):
thinking about the curse from Amelia.
So she started going to the Romani who traveled through of
a, you know, because that was like the bigger city.
And so she decided to seek them out again and a tent.
She's literally, she drags just happy with her and she's just
like if I get pregnant again or more kids going to die. and, The

(48:59):
old woman told her on one hand in your future.
I see prison on the other hand. I see an asylum.
And so Leonardo was like, well Iliterally just left prison like
three months ago, so maybe that's what she's seeing.
Why she's not seeing into a past.

(49:20):
The idea of the Asylum. Though was scary.
Because back, then asylums were definitely just death sentence.
And yeah, you went in and you never came out.
Women's prisons had little regulations but there was an end
to going to prison. If you were insane, there was no
cure, they'd lock you up and youjust rot away.
She paid the woman went home though.

(49:40):
No. she gave birth to a healthy baby boy and she was very uneasy
She also gave birth to two more little girls.
Oh, She still love Don Giuseppe hard but she was so ready for
something bad to happen that shejust walked around in silence

(50:03):
and it kind of freaked, her husband out with her anxiety, On
The Rise, the seizures came back, she was afraid to pick up
the younger children. What would happen is that she
would like just kind of like watch them and then Raphael will
come home and then she would like leave the house and walk
the area and visit my fortune tellers.

(50:24):
You're stressing yourself out the fortune, tellers, realize
she wanted gloom and doom. So they kind of gave her what
she wanted. Eventually, she started buying
her own books from them and doing her own readings.
And then summer came to us Dunyaand the this was a farming town.
And everybody went into the fields to harvest, Rafael found
himself alone in his office job as 90% of the town was out

(50:47):
helping their families so he's like, I guess I'll join
everybody in the field. Only an artist friends.
Go to. Hmm.
So Leonardo's like I guess I'll go too.
Like everybody was there with their kids too.
So it was just sort of this really nice Vibe.

(51:07):
Okay. Everybody's working in the hot
sun having a good time. The sun goes down, they have
little party eat some of the food.
She let herself relax, you know,they would dance around the fire
at night. I'm not liking where this is
going. This was like, the first time

(51:28):
Just had a Carefree moment. So Raphael Leonardo just happy
and the kids fall asleep with their neighbors in the fields at
night, it's really nice. Okay, July 23rd. 19:30.
Leonardo wakes up, very abruptly, she reaches out and

(51:49):
she doesn't really feel anything.
Other people wake up to it was like everybody had been shaken
awake at once and they were likeare there ghosts.
The wind was kind of weird. They all relax as the wind died
down and people were turned to sleep but Leonardo couldn't.
This felt like that impending doom that she was used to. so,

(52:10):
she laid with the babies and herhusband, and he went back to
sleep. She just stared at the night,
sky for like the next hour. An hour later.
There's a tremor. And she thinks that she's having
a seizure because everything shaking and she realizes that
everyone is shaking. This was an earthquake.

(52:35):
And it's a real bad one. The field, rips apart, tossing,
people around from the fields, they can see their houses are
falling apart as well. She watched as her home
disappeared into the Earth, and the river next to it, the whole
town crumbled, the few people, in their homes, came running
out, Stones fell on them. This was known as the opinion

(52:58):
earthquake of 1930 are Pena is the area around IV know?
That is part of the apennine mountains.
The death toll of this earthquake was pretty low, only
1,400 people died, but it was incredibly destructive.
European seismic scale is in Roman numerals and the one is,
nobody felt it and nothing bad happened.
The worst one is 12, which is that the ground is irreparably

(53:22):
damaged, and all of the structures are gone.
The opinion earthquake of 1930 was a 10 host. 70% of the town
was destroyed when the earthquake happened.
So, what happened next was that the town's folk who were in the
fields rushed to the building's to try and save people because
they could hear screaming peoplewere stuck inside.

(53:45):
The pair, the pants already family did not move.
Leonardo was stuck. She was terrified.
She was paralyzed. And her husband couldn't take
all these kids with him. Several of them are like we got
like a baby and two toddlers andlike an eight year old at this
point. It's interesting that she thinks

(54:10):
of her life as like this horrible thing in this Doom
because that fear she had that made her stay in the middle of
that. Field is the reason why they
probably all survived. Oh, earthquake happened at 12:08
there were 16 aftershocks over the next 24 hours.
The entire town is fucking leveled.

(54:33):
The majority of those 1,400 deaths were off from IV know.
By the end of the 24-hour period, every house was
destroyed. The government put up these like
small temporary houses for people but the government won't
even be able to fix that area for another 40 years. 40.
Oh my goodness, become a town again until the 70s.

(54:54):
Wow, it's very beautiful. I looked it up but long time.
Okay, yeah, Leonardo was devastated.
The little life that they had been building for like the last
eight months was over. Little is known about the time
between avellino and coraggio, but we do know that when they

(55:15):
arrived family was Leonardo, Raphael two little boys and two
little girls of fourteen pregnancies for survived.
When the up Ansari family arrived, they were pretty much
embraced by the community as refugees from the earthquake
near Naples, people rush to helpthem Raphael very quickly.
Got another office job. They were able to run a small
house in town, that was attachedto a general store.

(55:36):
This honestly wasn't the worst place for them to be.
Be the children were all well-liked and Leonardo was a
little bit less intense with watching the children because
she kind of looked at it as likewe survived an earthquake.
What more can I Do by watching them?
The Earth tried to eat us. So she's like screw it, let him
play in the dirt in the river. She still wasn't emotionally all

(55:58):
there though the first few weeksto months and coraggio.
She found it very difficult to do anything more than just stare
in the distance like she would just lay in bed all day long.
The local women were pretty empathetic, really nice that she
lost everything and like many people who lose stuff like that.
You just don't feel safe anymore.
Yeah. Eventually, they'll encourage,

(56:18):
you know, she started to feel like a human being This was very
new for her, she was going through like proper emotions.
Here, she was angry at what she lost.
She was grieving for her dead friends, happy that her family,
made it guilt that her family needed, you know.

(56:39):
Yeah, feeling all the feelings is really hard, but it's also
very good crash. It was also the place where
family found, real Financial stability, they had savings.
Leonardo wondered if the curse was over because he's lasted.
Oh, Nia had been destroyed by anearthquake.

(57:00):
Yeah. After those months of Silence,
she came out of her shell and she wanted to apologize to
people. So she tried to be extra kind or
husband or children. She went to the other ladies in
town who are really nice to her and those apologies kind of turn
into friendship and everybody understood, she was gone through
something really awful, maybe her friends didn't know just how
big of change she was going through but doesn't matter.

(57:23):
I guess a lot of what we know about this is from these
journals that she kept, which were also evidence.
But she also wrote poetry and she was actually really good at
it and people really liked it. Cool.
Now, remember, I told you the house was attached to a general
store? Yes, when they first moved
there, they just locked it up because they didn't want the
kids to like get into it right. One day, she decides to go
inside and get up. It's been empty for years but it

(57:44):
was honestly still in good condition and she only needed a
product and she remembered that she knew how to make soap.
So, she talks to her husband andhe gives his Blessing and he
buys the supplies for her along with perfumes and oils that she
needs from like Big Town's further away.
A few weeks later, the shop was clean.
Giuseppe painted the shop sign hung above the door.

(58:08):
She allows her family and a couple of her friends to test
her product. And the rumors around town was
that this was good. No, this was better soap, and
you could buy from the store. Woohoo, whole town shows up.
It's a massive success. She Getting requests from people
all over Italy. It's like a fairytale.
This is a life that Amelia her mother dreamed of and she had

(58:30):
never been allowed to dream in herself.
She would visit her friend. She would make cakes her
daughter would see her daughterswould help serve food, they
would help at the shop. The local women, then found out,
you know how to do card readings.
Oh no. So they started coming to her
house and getting readings. She was actually really good at
it because when her Prophecies came true.

(58:55):
People are like, Oh no, you're the real thing exactly what you
said was going to happen happened.
Oh no! Dan!
The Romani who also passed through the area heard about
this too and they would come andthey would barter with her and
exchange for the fancy soaps. They would give her more and
more like all books. Oh nice.

(59:16):
She had this spiritualists library in her house.
That's wrong that she loved. And honestly, the only thing I
think she loved more than just happy was her little study full
of Aqua books. She actually started looking
into European witchcraft addition.
She learned about the Benedict area estragon area, which are
both traditional folk Magic fromEurope.

(59:40):
She was very interested in beingable to control her feet.
Her goal was to be what's calleda Fat Sweaty, a magical fixture,
okay? She learned Municipal ways to
take care of things for people. So if a young woman found
herself with child, they would finally in our data and go home
with a special herbal tea and soon.

(01:00:00):
Not have a problem. Not have a problem that problem
was gone. Okay, cool.
Hmm. Okay.
Men in the village would discreetly.
At her for a potion to help withtheir Vitality.
It worked, he made things for sickness.
Fertility luck. Oh goodness.

(01:00:20):
You needed something to help youout with that thing.
You don't want to talk about, I'm just look.
Edie is a new is a common problem.
It is also the first blue pill, nothing to be ashamed about.
He came up with the pill before we had by a Agra.
She just got a little list of holidays syrup.

(01:00:41):
You'd be all right. Oh my God.
Okay. So everything was going perfect
in her life. They lived in coraggio for
almost a decade. And then in 1939 World War Two
Broke out and just that be decided he wanted to be a
soldier. No, you do not.

(01:01:02):
It's not that he didn't love hismother but the first half of his
life she'd been very overbearingoverbearing and he wanted to
leave coraggio without hurting her feelings.
He saw his mom is his really emotional delicate woman and he
knew he couldn't just leave the house.
And by the way, he's a grown-assman.
At this time in his life you still can Ain't go, no.

(01:01:24):
He's in his 20s. I don't care.
So he's like if I enlist in the military this will give me a
chance to see the world. I'll get to leave and sure
she'll be upset, but she'll haveto understand.
I'm a man, I'm going to help my country.
He really ate up the propaganda from Mussolini at the time, I

(01:01:44):
love it. Gotta love it.
And it's really interesting because perhaps, if leonarda had
set Giuseppe up, when he was 18 with a lady, he would have a
wife and kids and he wouldn't have wanted to leave for the But
instead he didn't have anything tethering him to cry.
Gio hit. His mom tells her and she was

(01:02:05):
hanging to his leg. No.
He actually signed up without telling her.
And what happens at the other young men told like his friends
told their moms and everybody was like, do you think she
knows? No, just that be at first he was
like, this will be fine and thenhe was like, you know, I won't
be fine. I'm not gonna say anything and

(01:02:26):
he's kind of like walked around for a couple days and he was
very worried. He's like she's gonna find out.
That's gonna be a problem. So, Leonardo's 18, the market
someone walks by and congratulate her on her son's
bravery No reaction. She buys your groceries.
Goes to the house. Lays out.
What she's going to use to make dinner for later.

(01:02:47):
Goes into her study locks. The door falls apart for a
little bit. Like the problem is no women in
Europe were unaware of the firstworld war.
And how many men, died and WorldWar one.
Yeah, it destroyed a lot of families.
And while her family had been spared because of the social
hierarchy and what was going on at her, mother's status in town,

(01:03:11):
she did see it happen to other women and she also thought she
said, he's a good kid but he's not really a fighter.
She's like if he goes to where he's coming back in a casket so
she spent Out that she literallyspent hours that day and her
study. Trying to figure out what she
knew. How to do that could help him.

(01:03:32):
Giuseppe comes home drunk, his friends and take it into a bar.
Congratulations, you're going tobe a soldier, he walks in, and
he sees that one, his dad and siblings are gone and he's like,
okay, well maybe they went out to eat but the Foods on the
table still and the house is quiet.
All he hears is upstairs. Just scratching scratching.

(01:03:55):
He's like okay she's in her study.
He hears her talking to herself flipping pages in books.
He's like She probably found out, he's got to go upstairs and
talk to her. He opens the door, her backs to
the door. She just pile of books on the
table. She is pouring over her Library.
He's expecting yelling, but she turns around smiles and it's

(01:04:17):
just like my beautiful boy. They go downstairs to make a
little, you know, Rush meal It wasn't like the kind of meals
though that she made when he waslittle, she because we, she was
on her, she would be so stressed.
She would forget to cook and so they would have little rush
meals then. But this was different.
She spoke to her son. Like they were equals.
He wasn't a boy anymore. She knew that she very calmly.

(01:04:39):
Talk to him about his options. Can you leave town to join the
Army? He's like, I don't wanna do
that. You could you withdraw your
consent? I cannot withdraw my consent.
At the end, she still very calm,just had these kind of shocked.
He didn't realize that she is making her own plan to deal with
us and she's actually Looking into some real dark stuff, she

(01:05:04):
decided already she was going touse death math and death magic
to save her son and she's going to send him off with a war to
protect him as well. Unfortunately, the Cornerstone
of a lot of death magic is that?There must be a sacrifice.
Yeah, unfortunately she doesn't realize that the sacrifice
normally needs to be equal in value, but we're going to get to
that part of that actually see it first.

(01:05:24):
She just thought, maybe I can just give him a ward, but she's
like, the problem with that is on a battlefield, it be Very
easy for him to be separated from his stuff.
So it won't protect him. So she says, I definitely have
to kill somebody to make sure that the spirits will be
appeased and my boy won't die. So she's like, well I want to
make sure that the death is painless and fast.

(01:05:45):
I don't want to hurt somebody. She did briefly think of the
idea of just giving the dropped like a death drop to somebody in
town with their other medicine that they buy from her and be
like, oh no. But that would just be a body
and that wasn't she didn't thinkthat was going to be a good way
of doing this. So notice first victim was named

(01:06:06):
faustina seti. That's Tina was older.
She never been married, which asI mentioned to you before is a
downside, listen, we still call people spinsters today, Brian.
And this is, do not a hundred years ago.
Yes. So you don't know, people be
like, you're 35, you don't ya married, you doing the cats, you

(01:06:30):
know how people are dispenser? That was fuss, Tina.
And so, She came to Leonardo because she was, like, listen,
can you find me a husband? She told Leonardo, she was still
a virgin. She had never done anything.
She's like, I'm still of marriageable quality.

(01:06:51):
The Unites like bet virgin sacrifice my God.
So pure. So Leonardo tells her.
She found a man in the City of Palo but you can't tell anybody
yet. She encouraged faustina to write
letters to her family and friends and mail them.
Once she left town so faustina'slike okay and she Has one final

(01:07:15):
meeting. With Leonardo at her shop that
is when Leonardo kilter. She gave her a drink, it wasn't
the best Saturday of because shewas apparently still awake and
also, the United realize that killing someone with an ax is
not easy. Her first murder was brutal.

(01:07:38):
She just was hidden all over theplace.
Yeah. You gotta just messing
everything up. No, no skill at all here.
Never precise. Oh, those took a lot of hits,
the axe was very hard to use. She ended up cutting the body
into pieces further hanging, those on her herb drying rack

(01:07:58):
and then massaging the blood outinto the little trays, those
trays, she put in the oven, which he had kept hot the blood
so that the blood would dry and become a powder, so she could
use it. She put the rest of faustina in
a very caustic soap, to dissolveher using the same pots.

(01:08:21):
She used for her family's cooking.
Oh, I don't think our family cared when she was making soap
in those pots because you know, it was only soap.
Yeah just so you know it's just going to make it more clean you
know? Yeah of course.
Well After while she's like, youknow, this is just a normal soap

(01:08:43):
and Tea cake making day. I do this once a week, anyway.
The body grinder down the fat, but when she pulled off the lid,
she said it was like a horrible nasty.
Brown color. The blood Trace came out.
Really good though. And she added the blood Trace to
a bowl of flour sugar eggs. Just happy with need to eat

(01:09:04):
these to take in faustina's essence, so that they had to be
good. So she add a little extra
vanilla. Did you notice you can
substitute blood for eggs? I knew you knew that talked
about that. That's on you.
I'd take that. I just love.
That's a thing. Well.

(01:09:25):
She couldn't do anything with the brown.
Go. It's not supposed to be brown.
Hmm, so she takes it and dumps it in to the septic pits.
She said, this, this isn't goingto be a good soap.
She had wasted faustina's death,she's going to have to do this
again. The murder had big kind of

(01:09:47):
traumatic for her honestly. People who got the letters were
pretty excited. Fussy defend a man.
Nice, she sold the tea cakes. No one said anything about them?
She had perfected those, but sheneeded a new person to complete
this ritual. August of 1940s.
Three months before Giuseppe is set to go to war Leonardo's,

(01:10:10):
like, okay, I gotta do this again.
Our next victim is Francesca's Salva, the school teacher and
Widow who had retired. She was a little younger than
Leonardo, but had no children and no one to worry about her.
She's well-liked in town and shecame to Leonardo, wanting to
know her Fortune. Leonardo told her that she would
find success and happiness and going back to work, I'll even

(01:10:32):
help you find a good job soon. After Leonardo tells her that
she found her job at this Elite girls school and Pia chenza
almost it's like on the edge of Italy near Switzerland.
Switzerland. As you know, Posh it's the
Pinnacle of music and art and all sorts of awesome stuff.
Fantastic. She's like, I used my

(01:10:54):
connections, you know, I know some more, you know, wealthy
people and people did know that she did have high society
clients. So Francesca believed her and
September of 1940. After a month of faked postcards
and lies, Francesca was ready toleave.
She accepted a drink from Leonardo, the morning of her

(01:11:15):
departure. This time, she was better with
the axe. She didn't Swig all willy-nilly.
She actually laid out basins to collect all the blood because
before she had really had to clean the kitchen, she did
everything the same, and she still got the same result.
It was all unusable, and she wasso mad that she went to actually

(01:11:37):
take the, the pan and throw it. And she grabbed it, and it was
burning hot. She burned both of her hands.
And she had to wait for just happy to come home and take the
to the septic thing and dump it.Now Giuseppe's like This is
weird. Cardi B.

(01:11:59):
You know, that's weird. He's like, is she gonna unravel
again? I'm getting closer to leaving,
then he thinks Maybe she purposefully hurt herself to try
and get me to stay. She's like no, no no, it's just
an accident. I wasn't thinking.
We had rather decides the problem with the second batch

(01:12:20):
was that her intent was wrong, she did a better job, but she
just intention magic is intention.
Who's was true? It gets very close to his
departure date. Her file victim is Virginia.
Now, I can't see this girl's name, I think it's Chapo.

(01:12:42):
A former soprano and opera singer who is beloved by the
town and even though she was a celebrity, she was very kind.
They were friends who had bondedover creativity and music and
poetry. one day, Virginia came to Leonardo and said leonarda

(01:13:04):
and said, I'm going to leave Andat first they not, I was hurt.
She's just like you just gonna leave.
We friends fan you just dip it but then she was just like, wait
I can use this to my advantage. Virginia, just wanted to leave
and see the world. She'd been living with her
brother and his wife wrote a while.
And I think she was tired of being a third wheel.

(01:13:26):
But Leonardo convinced her to Let me she's like let me try and
set something up for you so you don't just like walk into the
Wilderness by herself. Her thought was since Virginia
was remarkable and so it was just happy.
She had maybe failed before because the sacrifices just

(01:13:46):
weren't equal. They were both younger in their
20s. She convinced Virginia, she was
like listen, don't tell your brother yet I found a job for
you but the person who it's withvery wealthy Elite person, not
going to give a whole lot of details over the next couple of

(01:14:07):
like months Virginia. Kind of pulls the story out of
her. So her family doesn't know a
little bit. Finally she finds out you're
going to be managing the Affairsof a very wealthy man, in the
South and a pretty big city. It pays super good gonna be
working for an impresario, whichis a finance person who gives

(01:14:27):
money to the Arts and only are you going to be managing his his
Private Affairs but also helpingwith the business and she said
that he she told Virginia he's interested in you because he
knows that you were a famous singer and perhaps, maybe you
could perform At his business, as well.
Virginia is very Enticed by the mystery of it all.

(01:14:51):
She goes, He Lives just outside of Florence.
You're going to have an apartment in Florence going to
be right in the middle of all ofthe, the, the amazing stuff
going on in Florence, Florence. Italy.
Is one of the most it's a cultural like center, right?
This is exactly the place of thewoman in her like mid to late
20s who's trying to see the world and have an exciting
adventure with want to go. She says goodbye to her brother,

(01:15:15):
September 30th 1942, she thanks him for letting him live there.
Her sister-in-law was out so shecouldn't say goodbye.
She shows she showed up to Leonardo's but later than
normal, normally the women showed up early but our girl
Virginia showed up afternoon. Wearing Furs and jewelry.
She's a, I'm ready. Gosh.

(01:15:35):
He's always downplayed look because she didn't want to make
people in town like feel crappy.Yeah.
But here she was like, doesn't matter because I'm leaving so
today when I leave, drip the drill so, you know, to come to
the door and it's pretty surprised that you sit in her

(01:15:56):
kitchen. They have a chat, Leonardo has
to beg her To drink the potion because like Virginia's, like,
listen, I'm not trying to be drunk while head out and finally
she's just like if it matters this much to you I will drink
it. Of course it does because I'm
gonna kill you Leonardo. Actually, she couldn't bear to

(01:16:18):
destroy the clothing so she tookit off of her.
She focused her intent, she wentthrough the motions again.
She took Virginia's perfume out of her trunk poured it into the
Vets, she made the tea cakes, She said this time like before
the tea cakes taste a little irony because of the blood.
Yes. This time.
They were pretty sweet. Oh, we're closed.

(01:16:40):
Also unlike the women before when she opened the that of
rendered, fat, bones and hair, it was white and it was a creamy
consistency. Interesting, there was one final
ingredient that was added which was the fact that Leonardo cries

(01:17:01):
I'd over killing her friend and decided like this is just my
burden that I will have to bear that.
I killed somebody that I care for for the sake of my son.
You poor thing, you poor murderer, she prepared the Soaps
and then she had all of the crime.
So she needs just happy to eat the tea cakes and bathes with

(01:17:21):
his soap to protect him, both internally and externally.
He comes home. And she's just like You're
leaving soon, I have to bathe you.
Giuseppe is not okay with this. She forces it, she legitimately
takes him into the bathroom. He's naked in the tub.
She washes every part of his body, including the sensitive

(01:17:46):
parts. He's very uncomfortable about
this. Yes.
He was super weirded out. Then they go downstairs.
He sit in the kitchen and towel.And he's like, why do I, why do
I need to eat this. And she's like, you have to eat
this and she pretty much like hand feeds him.
The stupid tea. Cakes is this?

(01:18:06):
Just like the single worst thingto happen to this young man?
She's very satisfied. She's like bet I did it.
The spell is complete. Yes, Giuseppe, avoids, his mom
from this moment on. Oh, he's very freaked out.
She's like, doesn't matter. I protected him.

(01:18:28):
People of town ate the rest of the tea cakes.
They bought up all the Soaps now.
Well, the first woman died, there's a rumor that she
collected roughly 30,000 liar. I'll explain the conversion rate
for this money. A little bit sweet.
Second woman had about 3,000, Virginia had 50,000 so who she

(01:18:54):
felt guilty for keeping the money and she actually didn't
spend it right away which was a good thing because people would
have known something was off. From afar Giuseppe watched his
mother. He was like she's strangely calm
and although she looks sad he didn't see the terror in her
eyes anymore. Like he saw when she was a kid
and he took that as a sign of acceptance.

(01:19:16):
Hmm. And he got ready to leave.
Now the letters that Leonardo had her victim said her family's
helped at first but as months pass and no one heard anything
from them. People got worried Virginia's
family, kicked up a fuss. Specifically her sister In-law
had she met this mystery man? Who knew anything about this?

(01:19:36):
Her sister-in-law starts her owninvestigation.
No one has any idea. What?
Mrs. Chapo was even talking about, but her like, listen.
Leonardo's real good with the, you know, the Soaps in this
magic, you should ask her. Maybe she knows what happened.

(01:19:57):
Oh, yeah. I'm pretty sure.
She'll be happy to help you. So mrs.
Mrs. Chapo arrives. At Leonardo's door and Leonardo
hands. Her a cup of coffee holds her
hands in and it's like, I knew you were coming.
I'm sure you did. Chapo is skeptical.
When cacioppo asks about Virginia, Leonardo apologizes

(01:20:22):
and says, I can't tell you anything more than you already
know. She said, Virginia told me about
the trip and that was it. And then Leonardo actually like
starts crying and she's like, no, no, it's just because I miss
my friend don't worry about it. Mrs. Cacioppo is suspicious.
Why is she misses her friends, she can't cry because of that.
Well, she speaks to Leonardo's neighbors.

(01:20:43):
And they were like, you know what, we did, see her, we saw
Virginia and her fancy clothes, she was here.
And you know what? We never saw a taxi.
I don't remember seeing her evenleave.
So now already Chapo had alreadybeen to the police and the local
PD were like lady. Your niece.

(01:21:06):
In law was like, a really famoussinger who went to Florence to
go be a famous singer again. So, she's like, no, no, no.
And she goes over their head to the superintendent of the entire
province. The superintendent is like, this
is interesting. We're gonna look into it, very
quickly. They discovered, there are
several women who went missing, who all visited Leonardo before

(01:21:29):
she disappeared, she was broughtin for questioning.
She gave them nothing at this point.
She wasn't very good at lying. You have to be considering what
she was doing with the fortune-telling.
This is true, she was not gifted.
She just knew how to get information out of people and
had a lie. But had a lie in a way that they

(01:21:50):
believed. She told them, sure, I advise
all these women with my card reading, but I haven't heard
from any of them in a really long time, Italy has some pretty
intense rules around search and seizure and they didn't have
enough evidence to go into Le Nardo's home.
So instead they looked into the letters, And that is where kind

(01:22:13):
of a fatal flaw happen. Lonardo didn't go to the other
cities. She had Giuseppe go and drop off
the packages. Those ladders.
And the police are like, well, all this money was taken from
these women. He's about to leave town and go

(01:22:35):
to war. He killed them to start a new
life for himself. They take Giuseppe and he has no
idea what they are talking about.
He had not, he the only woman he's even seen was Virginia
because she was famous. Yeah.
A couple hours later, Leonardo shows up at the police station,
banging on the door, she's like I did it.

(01:22:57):
It was me we mustn't. Go please.
Yep. They like, come on lady.
You're just trying to save your son, but then she describes the
murder in some real intense details, and I'm going to read
you a couple of these quote, that let's go.
She said, I threw the pieces into a pot.
Added seven, kilos of caustic soda, which is sodium hydroxide,

(01:23:19):
which I had bought. To make soap and stir the
mixture until the pieces dissolved into a thick, dark
mush. But I poured into several
buckets and a, in a nearby septic tank ask for the blood in
the Basin. I waited until a coagulated
dried it in the oven grounded and mix it with flour.
Sugar, chocolate, milk, and eggs, as well as a bit of
margarine. Needing all the ingredients
together. I made lots of crunchy tea cakes
and serve them. To the ladies who came to visit

(01:23:41):
Giuseppe and I also ate them. Yeah, then of Virginia.
She says she ended up in the pot.
Just like the other two her flesh was fat and It had melted,
I added a bottle of cologne and after a long time on the boil, I
was able to make some of the most acceptable, creamy soap.
I gave bars to the neighbors andacquaintances.
The takes two were better. That woman was really sweet.

(01:24:06):
So creepy now across three women, she had stolen about
83,000 wire which is about ninety.
Eight hundred US dollars in 1940which is about a hundred
eighty-one thousand dollars right now.
A lot of money. Not bad.
No, as this is happening. Giuseppe still in the room?

(01:24:26):
He turns. White starts vomiting in the
police station. And he now realizes what she's
been up to for the last nine months and he told the police
she has an entire study devoted to Witchcraft lonardo was very
Frank. She's like, yeah, I did this to
protect him and the police were sympathetic at first because

(01:24:46):
they're like, oh, she's just trying to help her son.
They were kind of scared by the end of the interview.
See why the pain? Sorry, children and Rafael are
shunned immediately, the soap business dead.
Stolen money gone and the children actually, leave
coraggio before she even goes totrial.
Wow, Giuseppe was happy to leaveand go to the military.

(01:25:09):
He even stopped by the jail to visit her.
Oh he'd already been. He was already really upset
about the bath situation. You okay.
Yes, I so adding the back and you ate me.
You made me. Eat people he's done.
This relationship is dead. Oh work.
She's done for check. Him six years later goes to

(01:25:30):
trial. And court, she identifies the
axe, the basins, the pot. She used for a crime.
She's very like poignant about correcting, the prosecutor on
things he has wrong about what she actually did.
She's very much lapping up this attention.
She tells the judge that she hadto give up some of the items

(01:25:54):
because during the war they needed metal.
So she had to give a ball of herladles and things that she used.
So they're not there. Oh, right right.
Of course she narrates. These crimes in detail on the
stand in front of the victims families.
She's making crash jokes. She's cackling That's all day.
One day two and three though, things get a little harder for

(01:26:17):
a, she gets a little bit more emotional.
She starts kind of unraveling infront of everybody and expert
comes in and it's like listen it's there's no way she can do
what she said she did best bodies, don't degrade like that
and only a day. She gets up and she starts
yelling at him. You bring me a body, I'll do it

(01:26:40):
right now. Anybody young or old?
They end up having to drag her out of the room as she's
screaming at him because he dared tell her that she couldn't
actually do it. Oh my God and it is true though
because if anybody was the expert on how to do what she did
it was her. Yes it's true.
Yeah, how dare you were doubtingher?

(01:27:02):
She's convicted after only threedays, she's given 30 years in
prison and three years in an asylum.
The court could tell from how she spoke that she was real
unwell, and definitely psychotic.
And the Romani woman had been right on one hand, prison the
other and Asylum, she'll bows. She spent the next 24 years at

(01:27:22):
pizzoli prison, she was rather popular after six years of the
investigation and that rather explosive testimony.
Even though she went to jail forboiling women into soap.
They are like, gotta give her a job and she's Good in the
kitchen. So, she worked as a cook.

(01:27:43):
Okay, cool, cool. Well, all of the inmates were
like bet. This is awesome.
The desserts are great and Leonardo's like you, hey guard,
you can have some and not a. One of them wanted to taste
anything. She made.
What? What right there?
Oh my God, I'm pretty sure they tasted delicious. so, She very

(01:28:09):
much like all the attention she got.
Psychiatrist came interviewed her for books.
She wrote her own book. It's called the confessions of
an embittered soul. I could not find the whole thing
translated into English, but I did find it, okay?
A lot of it matches, the story that I told you today, but I
told you she took some Liberties.
Mmm. She said she was using sex,

(01:28:31):
magic. She was seducing, man.
She slept with all of her friends, husbands I mean, Sex,
Magic is a thing. It's a thing in the thing.
She even said she had a lover inprison, but I'm also not sure I
believe that one either because the guards were actually
terrified of her. They wouldn't eat anything from

(01:28:54):
her. I don't think they were willing
to dip their toe in that. Well, also fun facts.
The book also includes recipes oh, including the cannibal Tea
cake recipe. It is totally in there.
I may need to get this book twenty years into her sentence.

(01:29:14):
She as a minor stroke or what they think is a stroke.
The doctors keep like what happens if she keeps having
these weird moments? It seemed like Strokes can't
figure it out. Why?
They realize she has a brain bleed, but they also don't
understand where that came from.And then they were like, they

(01:29:37):
looked into the process of what she did to the victims.
She was poisoned by the caustic soda Vapors when she was
rendering the fat of the people because when it's a small amount
of fat, it wasn't nearly the same amount.
But imagine trying to that was alot of pans.
There was a lot of that vapor and she was breathing it in and

(01:29:59):
you have a mask on the same thing.
She used to kill her victims. Had made a very small hole in
her brain and it wouldn't stop bleeding.
A strange Karma. Hmm.
She finished her time at the women's prison.
She went to the psych prison andthat is where she died on
October 14th 1971 year before her release.

(01:30:20):
No, the blood build up just cause too much pressure and her
skull these days. Obviously, we would just drill a
hole in someone's head and relieve that pressure to help
them. Honestly, you could repair what
happened to her, too. Yeah, but we didn't have that
kind of medicine back then. I don't know of neurosurgery,
was even a thing we were doing and 1970.

(01:30:41):
T in rural Italy, one of my friends visit her family in
rural Italy. And she said it was awesome.
Really different experience thangoing to the tourist spots.
I believe it. The official death was listed as
cerebral apoplexy She was 76 years old, and she was making

(01:31:02):
jokes with, and made some orderlies up until she died.
Hmm, her family could not be found to claim her body.
Italy worried that her grave site could become a spot for
desecration catch desecration but also for excitement.
So they were like they're worried that people are going to
be like oh we're going to visit the soap maker.

(01:31:25):
They wanted to become like a place where people could go for
like a tourist attraction. Okay.
She was cremated, her cremains were disposed somewhere.
Not turn into soup not turning this out, dude.
So, the next question, the real question here is Did she outlive
her children like the first fortune teller prom?

(01:31:45):
Right? When did you say p?
Well, first things first she outlived Raphael He actually
died in a small rural Village further south.
He had taken to drinking after learning of what she did and he
died before she even went to trial.
Oh wow! Yep, her three youngest children

(01:32:06):
could not legally change their name.
The process to change your name involve creating a paper trail.
So what they believe happened isthat more than likely they used
like a name of their own just locally and it was just never
registered because they didn't start registering.

(01:32:28):
You know we have like Social Security and things like that.
Yeah, that didn't happen until 20th century.
Italy. Okay.
And it was World War Two so it'svery likely.
They were easy to like slip through the cracks.
Yeah. Okay.
I know what happened to them. They set off in the distance and
Giuseppe, he went to war, he wasdeployed to the African theater.

(01:32:51):
And then later redirected to theTunisian campaign in May of
1943, the Africa Corps Was Defeated and the Ready of the
Italian first Army were capturedand taken to the UK as prisoners
of War. When searching through those
records for prisoners of War, there is no one by the name of
Giuseppe Prince already. His name is not in any death

(01:33:13):
records as well. What happened?
I think that it's possible that it could have been situation
where he took the credentials ofsomeone else who died on the
battlefield and just lives a different person that could have
been very easy. Like I said, they didn't do Mass
registration until the 20th century Cherie.

(01:33:35):
It's highly plausible that he either lived as a different
person for the rest of his life.Or he could have died on the
battlefield. That that we don't know if
that's possible. But yeah, it's something that
used to happen. Yeah, it is the madman thing
that happened on the TV show. Mad Men, I don't know what, he
just took the name of another guy who was already dead.
Oh, and lived a new life. I never watch Madmen, but no,

(01:33:57):
it's so there's another serial killer.
And he was a Nazi scientist, right?
What's his frickin name is Dave?I know you're talking about.
Yeah that guy, he did the same thing.
He just took somebody else's credentials and yeah it'd be.
Another person went to a whole other country.
And everything. Yeah, it's find out till way
later. Exactly.
Yeah. So and that time period, it

(01:34:17):
would be very likely. It's probably likely that.
We just don't know the name thathe went by after that.
Okay, well hopefully, he survived long because his mom
went through a lot to help me survive, because it's mom killed
people survived, because he survived.
Well, that's where is awful. Yes, that's who but me.
Regardless of whether he lived asurvived, The day he found out

(01:34:41):
about that. Yeah, it was the end for them.
Yeah, terrible. I'm yeah, that is all I have for
you today. That was a good one.
Applause. Yay.
And before we start yours, I do want to talk about something
really quick. It's not going to be like a
whole ad and know something. I don't like ads but there is

(01:35:04):
something that I am super interested in.
It's called and if I go missing file and I'm working with a
company called help you find me.If it's just, it helps you
create an online file of all of your Vital Records.
So that if you go missing, you can give those to the police and
you don't have to wait for the police to request.
Documents, which can take weeks these can be given to the

(01:35:26):
police, like the day you go missing.
I think it's really cool. And the code to get 20% off is
w/kg. C20, it's on the website.
They give you a free 15 days just so you can look it over.
But like the cheapest plan is only 19 bucks, regardless of
whether I had an account or not with them.
Like I think this is really cool.

(01:35:46):
I have an account with them. I don't think Brian's checked it
out yet, but he also checked it out.
You did you make you think? Hell yeah you should just go to
the link that I have is pretty cool.
Like I said, I it's in the majority of us are probably not
going to get murdered but the guy who made it the guy created
the actual website did it because he was so tired of

(01:36:11):
whenever he went on a trip, his mom and his wife would harass
him for details so you can put like your travel plans on there.
So anytime someone's worried about you they can You and you
can give them access. Yeah.
This would have been probably good for.
This is probably good for parents with college kids.
Yes. Because college kids don't like
to call home and parents want toknow.

(01:36:33):
I barely like to call home now. I'm like, hey, I look really
bad. I'm like, I gotta call my dad
and like a month. I think about him all the time.
That matter. Is that counts, right?
Yeah. Yeah.
I think so. But I thought it was really cool
and it's definitely something that I thought you all would.
Like I have never taken like an official real lad from any

(01:36:54):
company. Because I think that I don't
want to sell you guys. The coldest water bottles or
other, crap like that. Those water bottles are pretty
awesome. There are 150 dollars.
Brian. Who is gonna spend $150 on a
water bottle, sir? Nobody, nobody know.
I think my, my awesome thermos was like, $30.
Exactly. That's outlandish.

(01:37:17):
But I just, you know, that's my thing.
So, so, what do you have for us today?
Brian. All right, I have a lovely
lovely tale for you. Is it sad?
No. Okay, not today.
Why I haven't done any sad ones yet.

(01:37:38):
You something good. Okay, I think I have.
It was just me. You do?
Ya know, paranormal is more of the funny goofy side.
You true crying. It's the doubter.
Listen, you asked to be part of this.
Oh, goodness. Or did I ask you to be a part of
this? I think we both asked

(01:38:00):
definitely. Oh, so it's September.
Okay. Meaning almost time for
Halloween. Oh, absolutely.
It's like as soon as I hit September, you're just like What
is what is Autumn anymore? It's spooky season.
The whole bottom. All of it.
My favorite time of the year. There's numerous fall.
Just spooky season berth. Miss yes, We had time to get

(01:38:25):
those costumes ready for your kiddos and for yourself, too.
It's getting cooler at night autumns in the air and it's the
perfect time to wear a striped sweater.
Why is the perfect time to wear striped sweater shirt?
Because it's all the time with is the perfect time to wear a
striped sweater sweater. But what color are those drapes
please. Cuz when you say stroke sweater

(01:38:47):
I think where's Waldo? Oh my God.
No. Okay.
Azula SpongeBob. Pretty sorry.
My brain went where's Waldo? Oh my God.
And I have seen the garden teacher.
Oh, hmm. Anyway, that is unless you live,
in Fairfax County, Virginia. Okay?

(01:39:09):
There's an urban legend about a man, his, his white suit and his
Hatchet. This is the money man urban
legend. Heard of them is this person
actually a real person. Yes, I think I do know this.

(01:39:31):
I'm going to say yes because there's actual accounts of this
and there's actual proof of thisperson, existing know, there was
like a person. I remember this one story and
people thought he was scary but really had a disability.
Oh, that's another thing I guess.
I'll go for one. Yeah, that's another thing I
told the Green Man up in like 20.
Yeah, that was what I was thinking, Ohio.

(01:39:52):
Like, that's what I was thinkingat your entire me about.
Yeah, so wrong one, buddy. Man, I'd this sounds familiar.
How so. All right.
So there's an actual like urban legend behind this.
So I'm going to tell that after I do this, after I do like the
to actual reports. Oh happened.
So okay, so story. So we have first, you know

(01:40:13):
accounts? Yeah, absolutely.
So there are two initial reportsthat like everybody knows or you
know, whoever tells his tale, they know.
So it's October 19. 1970 in Air Force Academy Cadet.
His name is Robert Bennett and his fiancee are on our way to

(01:40:36):
visit a relative after they go to the football game.
So this is around midnight and they Park on Guinea Road since,
you know, Bennett's Uncle he lives right across the street
from there. So we're just like, let's just
pop in and say hi. Okay.
So we're sitting in her car is still on, you know idling just

(01:40:59):
blah talking probably who knows what they're doing in the car?
Yeah, the time period. When Zodiac Killer would just
show up and kill people. Yeah.
So they notice something moving like in their rear window.
Uh-huh. And before they even know it,

(01:41:23):
there's something thrown throughtheir passenger side window from
room and yep. As soon as it happens Bennett
puts the car and drive or he reverses it out of his parking
spot and he just speeds off. Listen, we call We call Uncle
Jimmy when we get home. Well, they're driving away, they

(01:41:44):
can hear this person screaming at them about them.
Trespassing and that that he gottheir plates are tags or
whatever. And you know, not to be around
there. Wow.
So as they're driving, they noticed what was drawn through
their car window and it's a hatchet or a small axe or

(01:42:07):
whatever aggressive, what was only See what you can deem
trespassing. Exactly.
That is some super care and behavior.
So think what the notice about this man, or his person was that
he was wearing like, oh wait, like a kind of like a white suit

(01:42:28):
peculiar, it's really weird Colonel Sanders.
Yeah, so they head to the police, you know, they give them
the report Bennett eggs, a feature that his fiancee did Not
notice or that she did not remember.
Yeah, she's like no that didn't happen.

(01:42:50):
That wasn't, that's not what yousaw, but he he told the police
that he saw that, the guy had long white rabbit ears on his
head too. So the police think this guys
wearing a costume and harassing people.
Yeah. So that's that's first account,

(01:43:12):
okay? Second account, October 29th.
Same year. So, just a couple weeks later.
Yeah. Ten days later, a cus truck and
construction security guard. He approaches this guy because
you know, he's in his work area and this is where they're
building houses and stuff. Okay.

(01:43:33):
So he approaches his guy who's like standing on this Like
half-finished Houses porch, right?
And he's like, The guy he's staring at the construct, the
security guard, and he's like using this Hatchet or axe thing
and he's just stabbing this thismail post with it and just

(01:43:58):
staring at him like threateningly weird.
Yeah. Again this is one guinea any
drive or get it. Road is obviously somebody from
around the area. Yeah but why does he feel like
he owns this? This whole town.
I don't know. So for this road yeah the guard
reported that the man was Ring agray black and white bunny suit

(01:44:24):
and he was chopping. Like, as I just chopping up the
porch post with an X and said something about trespassing and
that if the guard Got any closerto them that he chopped his head
off. I'm hunting people hunting
wabbits, not wabbits. And of course, this report to

(01:44:48):
the police, but with very littleevidence, you know, the case was
yeah, closed. So, there's nothing that came
out of this report or the first report because there's like
nothing like when they showed the police to ask from the first
one and hopefully so like, okay this is like the 70s, so I don't
think fingerprinting was a thingback, then, it was a thing.

(01:45:11):
But like, even now fingerprinting isn't exactly a
really good sign. That's true too.
Yeah we've met they just look ata list of fingerprints and go
that one looks like it it's really not a sound science even
now so I'm sure if it was more guesswork back then too and like
the guy was in a suit so his hands could have been covered.
This is true too. No, no white for patches or

(01:45:34):
nothing like that either. Yeah, this might not have left
any DNA behind it all? No.
So, that's the mystery. So, apparently there is an
underpass that they called the bunnyman bridge which okay, is
around this area, too. Hold Up, Wait A Minute, Man.

(01:46:00):
Funny man, bridge and is it. New Guinea.
Is that the situation? It's called the Colchester
overpass. Okay.
So this was built in 1906. Oh wow.
Yeah so This. Now, this is part of this urban

(01:46:24):
legend. Okay, so I want to read to you.
So I'm just going to say that and apparently Ghost Hunters.
I've been there too because of the urban legend.
Well, now I have to go watch theepisode soon as you leave.
I didn't say ghost adventure so I think Ghost Hunters who knows
they may actually might have gone there.

(01:46:45):
I didn't who fucking knows, who knows what Baggins well Ghost
Hunters was the ones from Taps, right?
Yeah, I like them they have a show.
Now it just doesn't have It is anew show.
Hmm I'd watch that. Then they have one from the one
like chubby your guy that's called like Ghost Hunters

(01:47:08):
internet like it's something waslike be a go around the country
to talk to different people but then the other guy, the bald
one. Hmm.
He has a new one too and it's him and some of the regular guys
and grants just they're still friendly.
He just wanted to devote time tohis family.
I mean, yeah my mom spent like 15 plus years doing The show.

(01:47:29):
Yeah, so yeah, it's a lot, that is a lot.
And, you know, a parasocial relationships being have, they
are people think they know you because they watch you on TV.
So I'm sure he probably got a lot of creepy creepy responses,
I believe it, you know, so he prized want to be there was
kids. So, yeah.
So the other guys are still doing a show though, okay.

(01:47:50):
So I could watch that one. I like them.
They're nice people. Mmm, don't yell goes, no, don't
don't say what's up demons. Sure, boy.
Yo, dad. Ashamed.
A I know testing fate with writing for Cara.
Look that's all I can say. That's all I could think of when
I'm like if I'm trying to talk to a ghost if I said it's the

(01:48:14):
best thing ever picture of him with his sunglasses on what's up
demons. It's your boy shit boy.
Ha ha ha that's the only thing Icould think of when I'm
questioning demons, what's up dean of this?
Your boy, yeah you are. demon also got to let you know now
that you have put The Warrens episodes on YouTube.

(01:48:37):
People have a lot to say about the Warren.
Oh my God. I just said, I'm not saying
nothing. Okay.
Well, we're not saying nothing, I'm gonna get to this urban
legend then, yes, it's a, it's anice long story.
So, yes, settlement, it's nice. I like to, I like to add stories

(01:48:57):
to my segments. It just, I don't know.
Just add some flavor. Y'all can see that as over here
dancing. So this is called the Clifton
Bunny Man. So it tells a bunny man goes
back. Many, many years originally.
It didn't start until 1931 aftermany murders.

(01:49:21):
Had already been committed for verification list or you can
visit the old Clifton library located in Clifton Norfolk,
Virginia, Northern Virginia USA.What I'm about to tell you is
entirely true, although I've never seen them bunnyman
everyone in Clifton believes it to be true, okay?
But how many other people in Clifton is, That matters.

(01:49:47):
I mean, you know, lots of peoplesee the Jersey Devil.
This is true, so quick referenceto help you understand the
story. The Bridge has a one-lane car
Road. Passing underneath a dual Rail
Road Track above it within within the woods as like one
lane. Ya rabbee bridge.
And you said oh because the train tracks.

(01:50:08):
Okay. Yeah, we have one right over by
my house to say. I know you're talking about.
Yeah. Back in 1903, deep in Clifton,
there used to be an asylum buried deep within the
Wilderness of Clifton. Pretty soon.
After the Civil War, people begin a people started inhabited
area population wise around 300 or so, it was a very small town.

(01:50:33):
Nonetheless people didn't like the idea of having an asylum
miles down the road. So, they all got together inside
a petition petition, stating forthe Asylum to relocate.
Elsewhere, stupid, petition has an a new ice Asylum was built.
Which is now known as Morton Prison.

(01:50:57):
Okay, a temporary facility untilconvicts are appropriately.
Sentenced. Oh okay.
We have some like that. I won't say the city because
it's very close to us but there's one not that far from us
where they do all the testing and stuff here.
Okay that's cool. And fall of 1900 for the

(01:51:18):
convicts were gathered and piledinto the bus, which was to
transport them to Lorton somehow.
During the drive, not too far from where he left the driver
had swerved to avoid something in the bus had started to tip
and soon was rolling into a terrible Collision Course.

(01:51:39):
Most of the convicts were injured but had managed to
escape the bus and had fled intothe night Woods.
Of course, you know, later on the next morning, a local police
investigation had begun and theyhad begun rounding up the
escaped convicts hours turned into days days into weeks weeks

(01:52:01):
and two months, everyone was recovered after 4 months.
Except for two people. Marcus a wall stir and Douglas J
Griffin. Griffin in Bowling Green.
It's not two EPS but it's one F.So.
Okay, hmm. During a search for both men.

(01:52:22):
The police randomly found dead. Rabbits, eat half eaten and the
December dismembered. Every now and then along their
search, okay? Finally, they were to find
Marcus dead himself by the Fairfax Station bridge.
Now known as bunny Mansbridge, and in his hand, he held a

(01:52:47):
man-made Hammer knife, like tool.
Made into his made with a sharp rock in a pretty sturdy Branch
as a handle. So it like a makeshift X.
Okay? They thought nothing in in cared
not to not have how he died. Only that he was apprehended and

(01:53:09):
no longer had to worry about him.
So, okay. They had a name for Marcus but
later on the would realize they had named the wrong person that
money man. Oh still searching for Douglas.
They kept on finding half dead. Half eaten bunnies every so

(01:53:29):
often. Well the search went on finally
they were it's named Douglas thebunny man from their own three
months passed on Class by and and the police had given up
their search and April 7th on April 17th, 1905.
Everybody assumed the money man was dead by now if not going.

(01:53:53):
So they went on with their small-time lives come October he
will start seeing dead bunnies. Reappearing out of the blue and
started to fear the Unseen. Halloween night came around and
as usual, a bunch of kids had gone over to the bridge that
night to drink and do whatever kids their age did.

(01:54:14):
And 1900 midnight came around within minutes and most of the
kids had left. Only three of them remained at
the bridge. Right at midnight.
Supposedly a bright light back food within the bridge where the
kids were less than a couple seconds.

(01:54:38):
Wait, hold on, where the kids were in less than a couple of
seconds later? They were all dead.
Throat slash with the same type of tool that was found by the
other escapee Marcus. Not only where the throat slash,
but all of them, but all up and down their chest where a long

(01:55:01):
slide, we're long. Slashes, the gutting them.
To top it off the bunny, man. Humming both the guys from one
of the bridge from one end of the bridge with a rope around
her neck hanging from the overpass with their legs
dangling. In front of the passing cars,
this is a lot. Yeah.

(01:55:27):
The women were hung the same way.
On the other side of the bridge,this happened on Halloween and
1905 after that, he didn't see or hear anything from him for
another year, okay? Halloween 1906.
Okay was approaching and parentsas well as teens and Clifton.

(01:55:49):
Still remembered an incident that had occurred one year ago
at the bridge. His Bridge, bunny, Mansbridge,
That night 17s were left and raining right before midnight at
the bridge. Thinking little of it six remain
inside the bridge. While one, Adrian atala had

(01:56:12):
remained a good distance from the bridge hoping to have enough
time to escape. If the same thing happened,
again, at midnight, she witnessed only this, a dim light
walking the railroad track, right?
Before midnight stopping right above the bridge, at midnight,
then disappearing at the same time.

(01:56:34):
As a bright flash was inside thebridge, she heard the deafening
sounds over horrific, screams coming from inside the bridge
that lasted only a seconds. Five seconds later they were all
hung from the edge of the bridge.
Same style as the corpses like ayear later or earlier.

(01:56:57):
Horrified, she ran home. She didn't tell of everything.
She saw just as batter words here, there that some of the
folk put together to come up with her story.
No one understood it or even believe her.
Hmm. I don't like it.
You like it? They charged her, they charged

(01:57:19):
her with the murder. No, and locked her up in an
asylum Lauren in 1913. The same thing happened with
nine teenagers this time Halloween night again.
Yeah, so next time, I think it'sher.
So she still locked up, Adrian still locked up, they dropped
her sentence, but it was too late.

(01:57:41):
The insanity had finally conquered her.
Even if she was released, she was too far gone to have a
decent life. So she spent the remaining years
in the Asylum, until she finallydied in 1953 of shock.
Yeah, no one knows. Exactly.
What is actually? She died in shock from but

(01:58:03):
supposedly, she had died in her dreams, dreaming of that one
dreaded night. Perhaps the buddy man had
finally gotten to her, hmm. More murders were to take place.
However, although after the murders in 1913, most people
stay clear as a bridge on Halloween, 1943 Rose around and

(01:58:25):
six teenagers, go strolling out on Halloween night, a couple
hours later. All of them that the same way as
the others investigations took place.
But as usual, nothing was discovered 1976 the same
situation occurs this time with only three people though.

(01:58:47):
The only other incident that occurred since then was in, 1987
12 years 12 years ago from when this was written, right?
Janet chart charger? Yes, that's her name.
Charge heart. Oh, I don't know, whatever.

(01:59:10):
Was enjoying a night with her. Four friends Halloween night had
finally come, and they had gone driving out.
To enjoy the night after invading the children's caning
base. So rating, the children can t be
forever. It's settled around 11:00 at the
bridge waiting for a midnight tocome.

(01:59:32):
They didn't believe in the myth.So they decided to see for
themselves and we're bound to bethe only ones who actually
withstood the bunny man. They had waited about 55 minutes
or so almost at midnight until Janet started getting a little
scared. They all had been pulling pranks
on each other, you know, jumpingout of the bushes and screaming,

(01:59:55):
so she was already a little worked out.
Well, yeah, midnight hits. While she is completely freaked
out, she's almost at the bridge.When the lights get really
bright inside the bridge, when that happens, her body is
halfway outside of the bridge. She sees her skin start tearing

(02:00:16):
at her chest, but nothing is piercing her skin.
She manages finally to exit the bridge completely horrified, she
hits a hanging body in knocks herself out.
Oh, Lord, when she wakes, she finds out that she finds out her
hair, turned white, and that shehas been bleeding.

(02:00:37):
She was lucky that the cut had just heard it and wasn't very
Bad at all. She left and never returned to
the bridge again. She has been sitting on his
swinging bench on her balcony every morning.
Just staring in the direction towards the bridge, a couple of
miles down. She just day, you can still find

(02:00:58):
her on that bench every morning from then on the storage Wells,
untouched and unmoved Halloween night.
You will find a bunch of people hanging around the bridge
drinking smoking up. But within minutes of midnight,
everyone leaves nah that's good.It's been like That for the past
five years and that I have visited and that I have visited

(02:01:22):
the bridge on Halloween night, even if it's not Halloween
night, any night you go there, you feel the presence of death
waiting waiting, the night sky of Halloween, yearning for more
blood to be spilled in a name. In his name, funny, man.

(02:01:42):
So, basically Halo that look on your face, bass, got ridiculous.
look, if you're in became of allthe things that didn't happen,
this didn't happen the most See,you gotta learn when to pull

(02:02:06):
back on these stories, people write online.
You know, I know. I know that's why.
No sleep is so good. It be subtle.
Yeah, but this one's oh, this islike like a 10 year old story.
I think 70s right. Huh, 70s right?
Yeah. But this is not, I mean, just
this story was written like 10 years ago.

(02:02:27):
Someone wrote this on. This is an archives.
So what do you call that? A, like a light, not live
Journal? Oh gosh, the blog.
What does black Pages has angles?
No, no before sanghas. Long before that.
What's before xanga xango was like a little blog.
This was, you can make your own page was Angel something.

(02:02:48):
Oh, I think I remember you talking about, okay, probably on
one of those dates. So I know how he's coming up,
but please try to stay away fromthe body.
Mansbridge in Virginia, you don't want to see anybody else.
Any up on the news, Oh my goodness.
But that's what I got. Ya, urban legend from Virginia,

(02:03:11):
I loved it. That was.
Yeah, you know, it's funny. Um so there are a lot of, you
know, of course you know urban legends are a lot of popular
culture is things. There's one I just saw.
It was recent it's it was like avery short one, it was Adult

(02:03:32):
Swim. You know how they do?
The little little bumps in the middle of their, you know, the
shows and they go to Commercial and stuff like that when they're
coming back like the black screen with their writing on it,
okay? They did one about the bunny man
and they're like, so, apparentlyin Virginia, there's a guy
dressed in a bunny suit carryingan Axe and frightening people

(02:03:57):
and that's it. No, that's funny.
Oh, goodness. But there is A movie.
It's called Bunny, Man. But it's an exploitation Style
version of the story. It came out in 2011.

(02:04:18):
Interesting, well there's apparently in 2017, there's a
Amazon original series called lure, okay?
If you watch this out, But it uses, I guess there's a Money
Man episode in it. There's a book, of course.

(02:04:41):
Wait, is that a book? Yes, that's a book or a magazine
whenever article. It's called long live, the bunny
man. but yeah, and that's what Igot for that.
And it does like reference a Donnie Darko in here as.

(02:05:02):
And then it's funny that you mentioned the green, the green
man at the beginning because it represents that to okay, and a
little bit. But yeah, that's what you got.
That's what we got. Well, if you listen all the way
to the end, thank you so much, you appreciate it.

(02:05:22):
Thanks for supporting us on all of the things, the twitching and
discords, and the website and talk Talking I've heard of
YouTube and I'll try to figure out what name.
What the hell you call it tick tock.
So it's like what is tick-tocks name?
Like I couldn't just say it anyway.

(02:05:43):
Thanks so much. Yes, thank you guys.
Bye.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

The Joe Rogan Experience

Two Guys, Five Rings: Matt, Bowen & The Olympics

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The obsessive occult motherly love of Leonarda Cianciulli that drove her family apart

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Stuff You Should Know

The Joe Rogan Experience

Two Guys, Five Rings: Matt, Bowen & The Olympics

All Episodes

The obsessive occult motherly love of Leonarda Cianciulli that drove her family apart

Stuff You Should Know