The Crime and End of Clifford Olson Jr and the Pope lick monster.

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:30):
Hey everybody. Serial killer country.
My name is Brittany. Ransom, my name is Brian Joiner
and this is when Killers get caught a podcast of what a deep
dives into the Killer's. We love to learn about each
week. Brian, and I discussed to true
crime stories that resonated with us this week and then I
will lead you down the darker path of learning about who a
killer was, how they grew up howthey killed and most importantly

(00:52):
how they got caught and then Brian ends our podcast with a
touch of the Paranormal, a storyabout Cryptids or just the
creepiest. Of life.
And as usual we'd like to say thank you for listening.
Yeah, so this week in True Crime, I actually talked about
this story on Tick-Tock and people were pretty excited about

(01:14):
it, but I know that the cross section of I think people who do
both is pretty small and so Brian.
Have you ever heard of baby Holly?
It sounds familiar. So baby Holly was a little girl
who was found in the woods near her parents.
Who were dead about 40 years ago?

(01:36):
Yeah, sounds familiar. Yeah, I think I heard a story.
Yep. And Pretty much they were
newlyweds. They were my brain.
Well the the grandma is the one who's left.
Now, her name is Donna, Casa. Santa and baby, Holly Marie

(01:58):
Klaus, who is now 42 years old? And the mother of five was
located. Her parents were Harold, Dean
Klaus and Tina, Gayle Klaus and they disappeared in sometime
between December and 1979 and January of 1980.

(02:19):
And here's the thing, the parents were only identified
last year. What they have been unidentified
remains for most of the time that Holly is also been missing
of course to her she wasn't missing right horse but a lot of
this is thanks to those DNA testthat everybody loves to take and

(02:43):
Essentially, there was a match. and, Interestingly enough when
Donna Casa Santa learned? That her son was dead.
It was pretty wild. And an interesting thing

(03:05):
happened that we've learned since then, so after her parents
were killed, right? Donna cusses hunt against a
phone call from these women and mind you, this is Texas, they
had just moved there, they were new to the area.
So virtually nobody knew they were missing.
It only Donna knew that she hadn't heard from her son and

(03:27):
somebody who was out walking their dog in the woods as usual.
That's the way that seems to always find, you know, people in
the woods and the baby had been dropped off at like a church but
she got a phone call from these two women.
Specifically one who called herself sister Susan and sister
Susan had her son's car and was like meet us in Daytona and

(03:51):
we'll sell you your Suns car back.
Donna. Of course tells the police but
there's nothing they could really do.
They couldn't hold them on anything and they couldn't prove
that they hadn't just found the car and taken at.
But sister Susan said that she was a part of a religious
organization that old that believes in separating men and

(04:14):
women and it's just it makes no sense why.
This is probably who they think killed them but they have no
idea. It makes no sense because I
didn't even keep the baby. Holly ended up getting adopted
but her grandmother says that like they met over zoom and it
was an intense moment and she looks just like her mom.

(04:39):
Like there's a photo of her holding a picture of her parents
and she's a baby and she looks alot like her mother and her
grandmother was like they even sound the same.
Wow, that's why, but we're still.
They're still trying to figure out who killed Um, but I mean,
that's probably going to feel like it's going to reveal itself

(05:01):
real soon. You think so, I my brain thinks
it's not going to happen, but atleast we're done.
I feel kind of happy for her because she just found out.
She has five great-grandkids. That's so old that she has a
family to reach out to. That's a good one for you.

(05:22):
Before I take you down the awfulpath today.
Well, guess what? I think.
We're on the same wavelength today.
Because guess what, what? I got.
A nice one for you, too. All right.
Okay. So earlier this week, A corgi

(05:44):
and Lancaster, which was shot inthe head, what?
Yeah, he would hurt that baby. I don't know, he's adorable.
Um, his name is Arthur, and yeah.
So from what I've seen from the PSP ca, for instance, from their

(06:05):
Instagram profile, they found them and like it appear to eat.
Was shot in the head. But he is alive.
He is alive shot right between his eyes and whoever shot him.
Left him for dead. But like he crawled under a
fence into like a, I guess family someone's family's farm

(06:30):
and I guess they brought him into the, you know, P SPCA and
like it took him two weeks to like, heal up, but No, no, no.
It took into two weeks until they called him now goodness
gracious. I crank it was, it was two weeks

(06:51):
ago, it was to happen to weeks ago.
I'm still having a hard time right now.
I'm so sorry. It happened two weeks ago that
they, that they got this call from this family, the PSP CA
that they had found a dog who wandered into their, like, their
property and he had Some type ofmooners head and like he ran

(07:15):
from somebody, obviously who tried to kill him.
He is alive there. I guess there is a bullet that
was left in his in his head, he had.
He was very, very badly taken care of.

(07:37):
He had fleas yet here. Affections.
He was anemic boy. This dog.
Had it rough. And then it's like top it off.
Someone tried to shoot him in the head.
Oh, someone tissue in my head. Yeah.
But there are searching investigating to see, like, who

(07:57):
would even do this, who would dothis?
Why someone would do this to? Like, it's a little Corgi cute
guys. So adorable.
But they're hoping that he makesa full recovery.
He's obviously still alive. He's they had a video of him

(08:21):
like running around and stuff, it's just Adorable.
But like, As always, I was like okay we need something cute
today and I was like hey how about this?
This is something that is crime related because someone tried to

(08:41):
kill some body or something. Yeah and it was a cute, it was
really was, but he's alive and still adorable.
So if there you have it, Well, at least he's okay, yeah,

(09:17):
yeah. Well.
Last week, we talked about CliffClifford, Olson, Juniors, the
first half of his life will say up until about 40 years old and
we kind of left off on the placethat Cliff had gotten himself in
trouble with attacking a sex worker and pretty brutally,

(09:44):
harming her. And he's been a couple weeks in
prison, they did not check his record and therefore he Out.
I also mentioned that Clifford went back home and discovered
that his girlfriend Joan Was Pregnant.

(10:06):
And So, while Joan had initiallybeen mad at him at this point,
she was just worried and now he was back so so happy Yay.
And you would think like, no, I have all these important things
to worry about, but Clifford's, like I'm going to go out to

(10:27):
celebrate and just like the night that he found the
prostitute, he got drunk, he took a bunch of pills and he
began to think about those darker things and we mentioned
last week for anybody who didn'tlisten, you should go back and
listen because there's a lot of context to who this guy is, but

(10:49):
He? His basis for.
Sex was linked to violence. Which is a really bad
combination. And even though he had found, I
wouldn't call it love. But he found something with
Joan. That was gentler and Kinder, and

(11:11):
he did like it. He just can't shake the fact
that he he likes the violence with sex, and he wants to
indulge in it. And so on November 17th, 1980,
he found Christine Weller. She was 12 years old and she was
kidnapped from Surrey British Columbia.

(11:32):
Christine lived with her unemployed parents, and it was a
pretty dismal experience for her.
She kind of escaped the depressing nature of her
household by going to the local mall.
And she pretty much spent the entire day there with her
classmates. She couldn't afford to buy

(11:53):
anything but it was just nice tobe around friends and even after
her friends, all went home because they, you know, normal
rules for kids who have parents who are keeping watch on them.
Is you get your butt home beforenightfall?
Those are my rules. When I was a little kid when my
grandmother, when the street lights come on, you better make

(12:15):
your way back to the house. Great, but Christine and want to
go home, because she didn't wantto walk into a house where her
parents were. That fighting about the fact
that they don't have any money and, you know, you need to get a
job and yada yada yada. So she stayed as long as she
could until pretty much the place closed and so she started
making her way home. Just walking down the street and

(12:36):
that's what she meant Clifford. We don't exactly know what he
said to her. but it had to have been pretty convincing because
Christine wasn't she wasn't a naive kid.
She was from a referee part of town and she definitely would
have been wise to how older men kind of hit on young girls.

(13:02):
I definitely think that she turned down his offer to drive
her home because she had a bicycle and it couldn't fit into
his truck, which is more than likely when he threatened her
with a knife and threw her bike into the bushes, which were
recovered on the side of the road later.
We know that she was threatened with a knife because he cut her.

(13:23):
Not deep enough to kill her. But it was enough to let her
know that he would and Clifford took her to the favor.
Raise your Fraser River? Dykes in Richmond?
Because there weren't a lot of people there but just because
it's so cold at this point in Canada, and we know that he

(13:45):
threw her into the mud and we know that he attempted to rape
her, but they were never able tofind any forensic evidence to
show that she was assaulted. And that makes Sense.
Because there's a certain level of Overkill with Christine's
Murder. She was stabbed in her heart

(14:07):
twice, and in her liver four times, and for people who aren't
well versed in forensics, it's not exactly easy to stab someone
in the heart. There's a lot of bones in the
way of that. Right?
Which would mean that he either.I broke. / ribs that were in

(14:30):
front of her heart. Like this was, this was
aggression and it was violence and it was because he couldn't
perform, which is really common in these kinds of crimes were
talking about sexual sadism. We don't spend too much time
talking about these kind of killers because they're real
rough, right? Christine's parents didn't

(14:54):
notice that she was gone right away.
But after a couple days, they filed a police report and the
police wrote her off as a Teenage runaway because she was
from a rough part of town with crappy broke, poor parents, and
then on Christmas morning. In 1980.
A man walking his dog along the Fraser River found.

(15:17):
Her corpse. Now, the police jump into action
and they pull up the list of every known sexual convict in
Richmond and they bring in all these people and Clifford
doesn't come up on any of those lists.
Yeah, I like how you said convict.

(15:37):
Ah, yes, yes. Because you can't just he wasn't
convicted. In fact, they bring Clifford in.
As an informant and they're like, listen, we heard from
other police that you new things.

(15:58):
So, you know, let us know if youhear something, he's like, you
know, I'll keep my ear to the street.
Now Clifford decides. So essentially Clifford and
Joanne are like let's do this. Let's get married and they're
trying to set a date for the spring and she's pregnant.
It's all very bustling time and clever decides that he's going

(16:20):
to settle down before. He's going to settle down
though. He needs to head out and see the
rest of the world. And so, he starts driving
through a bunch of old places. He heads up to British Columbia
to See BCP because the presidentwas officially shut down all the
way and had become a strange sort of tourist attraction.

(16:42):
At this point, he actually buys a ticket and walks through the
prison as a tourist. And while he's there, one of the
old guards from the prison is there as a tour guide.
No. Does he recognize the two of
them passed by each other? Easily, a dozen times throughout
the tour and not make the connection until Clifford is

(17:05):
standing next to one of his old cells and the guard looks at him
and makes a phone call to some of his friends who are still
working as officers. And they're like, he's wanted,
he's at Large. Remember Clifford escaped.

(17:26):
Mmm and was never caught right by the time that Clifford leaves
the prison done with his tour, the police are waiting for him
outside, they add a month on to his most recent sentence and he
is sent to the mat ski institution in Abbotsford as far
as Joe Knows. He is having this weird sort of

(17:47):
solo bachelor party, and there'sstill a couple months before the
wedding. So Clifford's, like I'm not
telling her nothing. Hmm.
All I have to do is get out in time for the wedding, Mary Joan.
And we're fine this time, he's in prison, he's got new interest
in gangs, he's not trying to make any new friends.

(18:10):
He just wants to keep his head down, do his time, get out on
parole, and that's exactly what happens.
He drives back to Joan. And she's like, did you enjoy
your cross-country trip? And he's like, yep, Clifford has
themselves, the house, Jones house and relocate.

(18:31):
Mainly We because of the rumors about the attack on The
Prostitute, he and what Joan finding out.
So they say he finds a new job and he gets a new house in the
city of Coquitlam. He gets a job for the
superintendent in town for an atonement apartment.
Block, the same place that he runs the place.
They start house hunting after that like apartment find because

(18:53):
they're like, well once we have the baby we're going to need a
bigger place. But for now this is enough.
And Steven Olson would arrive shortly after their move
Clifford, is happy as a wife, a child, a job.
No outstanding warrants for his arrest.
Any more he starts going to church every Sunday.

(19:17):
Joan is really happy. They get to learn the Bible, he
can quote it at this point, but while they're playing the
wedding, the urges begin again and Clifford fixates on building
this Persona in his new town. He's now the sweet older man
who's kind to all the kids in the neighborhood and it doesn't

(19:38):
seem odd at first, but he's always talking all the little
girls in the neighborhood and complimenting them and giving
them little gifts, it doesn't seem strange because He did he
did for all the kids in the community, he made sure to never
show anybody too much, personal attention, but it's one of those
things that people should have been afraid of.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that if there is an

(20:00):
adult who is spending a lot of time with your child and giving
them presents and things. I'm not going to say you
shouldn't necessarily be worriedbut you should be watchful.
Yeah. Keep an eye out.
Yeah, just to make sure that it stays a lovely kid, grown-up
relationship, and nothing more. So, here's the thing, though

(20:23):
Clifford just like plenty of theother serial killers.
We've talked about, can only keep up this facade for so long
before he goes back to this needfor violence.
There was a point where he triedto introduce like slightly more
aggressive sex to Joan, but she got more pregnant and he was

(20:46):
worried that he couldn't do whathe really wanted, so he stopped
doing that. So I think that's kind of why
there's a delay here between thekilling in November.
And then April, I think this partially because he got that
initial satisfaction from killing Christine Weller.
But also, Also, because he did kind of sort of coerce Joan into

(21:09):
something strangely, like violent, but not super violent,
but either way, it wasn't reallyenough to kind of say this.
This growing her inside of him. And so uncovers mine.
He's just like, listen, I have to do these things.
And then I'm going to spend the rest of my days doing good

(21:31):
things for Joan, and for Steven,who isn't born yet.
But I'll let you know when that happens because there's is very
clear lines as to when he does certain things, one is ha.
Wow but uh either way that it only lasted him until April 5
months and then he just had to do something and so he had spent

(21:52):
the previous month's kind of prospecting and looking for a
kid in his neighborhood who would be the perfect victim.
And her name was Colleen, Mariandiagonal.
She was 13 years old. And when she wasn't at school,
she virtually spent all her timealone in her home.
Typical latchkey kid. And Colleen had pretty much told

(22:13):
him as much. So on April 6th 1981, he offered
he sees her and he's like, hey, you know, I'm gonna have a
weekend job opening with the apartment complex and you can
get some money and you know, baby be out of the house.
Get a couple job skills and she's pretty excited.
He's like, hey, I'll drive you to the office, we can fill out

(22:35):
some paperwork and when she getsin his car, he offers her a
drink from a bottle of schnapps,he has in his car.
And Colleen took a swig unaware that this entire bottle of
schnapps is drugged, we do know that Clifford sexually assaulted
her and dragged her into the woods and beat her to death with

(22:57):
a hammer. She would not be found until
September. Her skull was virtually
pulverized. Which again, let the
investigators know that her killer had a lot of just pent-up
anger. The kind of anger that it
doesn't make sense that you would take out on a child.

(23:22):
Now when Colleen goes missing the police do their due
diligence but just like Christine.
They're like, I mean here's thiskid who spends all her time in
the house, maybe she met somebody maybe she ran away.
They went to the superintendent of her apartment building, hey,
it's Clifford and he's like, oh yeah, I know her.
She's always at her house and hetells her, he tells the police

(23:45):
all about her routine and her family life.
And while the police are investigating, Colleen's
disappearance Clifford kills again this time, April, 22nd
1981 and he kidnaps Darren Todd Johnson.
Rid Darren was 16 years old and he lived in Westminster.
He used the same ruse that he used on Colleen.

(24:05):
Picking up the teen walking neara mall, offering him a job at a
construction site that they picked up a six-pack to
celebrate and when Darren wasn'tpaying attention, he refused the
drink. Unfortunately, a perfect victim
for Clifford because his family was new to Westminster.
And so a lot of people didn't notice him missing Clifford took

(24:30):
the unconscious boy to the deroche area where he prepare
he'd already previously prepared.
A kill site Clifford would admitto the police later that he'd
been more violent with Darren because he wanted the boy to
wake up and fight him. Darren was found less than two

(24:51):
weeks later and he had injuries everywhere.
Broken, bones a cracked skull. Stab wounds.
Unlike some Killers who are changing there. methodology as a
forensic, countermeasure Clifford is doing different

(25:13):
things to see how they feel. He's enjoying the different
kinds of murder weapons, and thedifferent ways he can hurt.
People don't like that. No, we don't like that because
not being able to have a solid victimology hurts the
investigation and also not beingable to have a solid methodology

(25:39):
harms. The, I mean, we find these guys
based on patterns and he's not operating on a pattern and all
his first two victims are. I mean, we got 13, 14 16, I
guess. They're all technically
adolescence, but that changes. There are much younger victims.

(25:59):
Generally, we know that pedophiles have a one
particular, they like, either boys or girls, so, it's pretty
rare that it gets mixed up, right?
So, he's operating completely different from what we know, and
in 1981, the The profiles that we use to find these kinds of

(26:21):
killers had only been around forabout a decade. so, if that So
it's very new and not everybody's Usenet.
In the interim, the police don'treally know what to do there.
Like, there's a lot of kids justsuddenly go and missing around

(26:42):
here, but one stabbed but not assaulted.
The teen, boys, a victim of a homosexual.
Rape. And you know how we feel about
the queers and 80s. They didn't like us.
So, the agency today to talk about, right?

(27:04):
They didn't even interview Clifford about Darren, because
Clifford wasn't a known homosexual. now, the weeks
before the wedding which was scheduled to be on, May 15,
1981, Joe needs Clifford by so he's like, I'm here, I'll do
whatever you want and four days after his wedding, however, he

(27:28):
abducted assaulted and murdered Sandra wolf Steiner, He picked
her up when she was trying to get home because she was going
to be late for her curfew and she had been in her boyfriend's
house and he had originally agreed to give her a ride home,
but when they got into an argument, he told her find her
own way home. So, she just started walking

(27:49):
Clifford, saw her. And he was just like, you want a
ride, she didn't really want to hitchhike.
It was just that she was dealingwith the stress of the situation
of, like, great. I got in a fight with my
boyfriend, if I come home. Late.
Now, I'm gonna get in a fight with my parents, right?
And here's Clifford and he's this old guy with gray hair,

(28:11):
just smile. It offering her a ride, back to
town. Hey, don't even have to work,
too hard to get her to drink anything because she was having
an awful friggin day. And so, she willingly took the
flask from him this time. He used a chloral hydrate, and

(28:33):
then, he took her to the Chilliwack Lake.
Dragged her out in the grass. She was out so cold.
She didn't wake up during the physical assault or the murder
like Not a good drug to use. Hmm.
Hydrate. And then I deleted it.

(28:57):
It's a sedative that's used to treat short-term insomnia and so
he just he gave her too much. She was sleep, sleep sleep.
No. This is, we know a lot of these
details because later on, he tells the police, everything in
excruciating horrific detail, and I just have to tell you that
I am giving you the cliff notes version.

(29:20):
Well, thank you. Appreciate it so much.
It's the worst and well, Alex. But like, later on, I'll talk to
you about the day that he gave them this, these these
confessions, but Yeah. One Sondra he used a 5-inch iron

(29:46):
Spike and smash it into her skull.
She didn't die from the first strike and he proceeded to
hammer the nail and to other parts of her body and watch as
she reacted. And these were obviously, SLI

(30:09):
involuntary, you know, spasms right because of pain, but she
was not fully aware of what's going on.
I mean afterward, he buries her in a shallow grave and he's like
bury the body this time. Don't want them to find her like
they found Darren. After Sandra's death, he focuses

(30:31):
on the birth of his son, Steven and the new baby was a bit of a
high for him. He didn't need to kill anybody
for a little bit. He went back to being that
lovely guy who was super kind toeverybody and he obviously
thought focusing on a sunless help him but he slipped up.
He started showing too much attention to a four-year-old in
the apartment complex and she told her parents so the police

(30:55):
were called in and Clifford was interrogated.
He made them think that this wasjust a confusion, you know, this
is she's confused. The police believed him and so
did her parents. And actually people in the
community were mad that he'd been accused of impropriety Wow.

(31:17):
Yeah, I don't fucking believe the victim.
Well, after this brush with the police Clifford was so mad that
he went out on June 21st. 1881 to find someone to take that
anger out on. So he leaves Coquitlam and he's
outside of the city. And he sees a to court.
She's 13 years old and she's walking home on North Road.

(31:38):
After a babysitting job. He offered her a ride because
she looked tired and she didn't really respond to him because
again, The 70s were really the era of hitchhiking.
She's just like, leave me alone,dude.
And so he kind of kept hammeringaway at her until he brought up

(32:03):
the idea that you know he's like, oh well you're leaving a
babysitting job, I have an Administration job and that's
probably way better than, you know, dealing with people's
brats all day long. You can do it on the weekend and
you can make more money and he'slike, oh, you know, we can do
your interview in the car. As I drive you, home Clifford

(32:26):
even played in to the role that he was so grateful that he
found, you know, such a mature young woman to to do this job.
He gave her the flash, she took a swig and just like with all
the other children and ended thesame way.
Ada was killed with multiple Hammer.
Blows to her skull at. He also used rope to strangle

(32:52):
her with and syringes to try andinject air embolisms into her
bloodstream. He told the police that he did
all manner of horrible things toher but we don't entirely know
what he did because he hid her body very well.

(33:15):
He drove out to Weaver Lake and he dug a grave and dropped her
and ate. It wasn't found for a very long
time. She was one of the bodies that
was virtually mummified. On his way back home.
Clifford kind of thought about the night and he realized that.

(33:39):
Killing even though he was doingmore horrible, horrible things
was to give him the same kind ofsatisfaction as use get before.
And maybe it's this dress, you know, of having a new baby in
the house and he still has to goto work.
And you know what? Yeah, I've heard that, you know,
having having a kid does like, dampen the murdering, you know

(34:00):
what I mean? The murdering sensation.
Yeah, the joy, you get from murdering it does.
Like, he'll that a lot pun intended.
There you go. He's like, what's up?
I'm just going to have to do this more often.
And, you know, I just more of these little sacrifices to make
sure that I can take care of my family, sometime between that

(34:21):
crime in June in the and the start of July, he gets in
trouble for sexually assaulting.A 16 year old girl, whose name
was never released to the public.
I'm not sure if this was Clifford's attempt to attack,
someone who wasn't drugged, but it didn't go very well because
she screamed, she broke free. She ran to the police, the
police pulled him out of bed. In the middle of the night,
locked him up. He spent all night thinking

(34:43):
about how he was going to talk to the police.
About this, they shop to interrogate him.
The following following morning,they have nothing. he tells the
police that he and the teenager had been drinking and he didn't
realize she was underage and shehad freaked out when things had
turned sexual, He walks out of the police station with a court
date and left him more than a warning.

(35:05):
Wow, Ow, they fucking love him. Now, the next six murders
happened in the course of one month.
So we have July 2nd, 1981, SimonParkington 9 abducted raped.
And strangled exactly one week after that, Judy kozma who was
14 and from New Westminster alsostrangled and sexually

(35:26):
assaulted. She was found near.
We were like on July 25th, then we have Raymond King who was 15
abducted on the 23rd. Raped and bludgeoned to death of
the hammer. Sigrid, I'm mess her name up.
She's from Germany and that's kind of almost one of the

(35:49):
saddest ones because she's just here on vacation, her name was
sick, hren signal during ironed.I swiped this a people's names,
right? And she was 18 and she's just a
German tourists and she was alsoraped and bludgeoned to death on
the 25th, two days. After that he kidnapped are
Elin. Carson 15 and then he killed and

(36:12):
kidnapped. Louise Louise Chartrand she was
17 year olds years old and that was on July 30th.
So I'm kind of going to go through these murders because I
also want to explain the movement of the police as
they're happening, all right. Now with all of them it's the

(36:34):
same thing coerced akin to the truck offer them a drink drug
them if it's alcohol soda. Either way it's always laced
with something sometimes though it was just drugs.
Sometimes he uses his tools, which he kept under the front
seat, his little murder box to torture them, other times.

(36:54):
He strangled them Simon Parkington was strangled by hand
since he was so small, and he was buried in this particular
wet soil by the river. Once Simon disappeared, the
police determined, these are notRunaways And we have a problem.

(37:15):
So, The Press is in, on this at this point and they're like
these kids are all being kidnapped and killed in the
Lower. Mainland area Canada, has a
serial killer, and as soon as they pick up on that, in terms
of the media, the media also pinpoint the police.
How does it take you six kids missing to realize that this is
a problem. And of course the other issue is

(37:38):
just as the police are beginningto catch up.
He's killing five more at the same time as happens all in the
course of one month. When Judy kozma goes missing The
newspapers immediately zoom in on her, she's a potential victim
and one of Clifford's friends tells the police that he saw a
girl who looked like, Judy and Clifford's car.
But the police were like, listen, we need you to go on

(38:00):
record and he's like, no, no, no.
He backs out. He's like, I'm not sure.
It was just a girl who kind of looked like the girl in the
picture. Judy's family goes public on TV,
they request information. Clifford responds by looking up
this family's information, calling them, and mocking them,

(38:21):
about the death of their child. Come on, he tells Judy's parents
that she's dead and that she sobbed and begged him and
pleaded with him. In fact, he had recorded her
screams and he played them for her parents or at least who he
thought was her parents. In fact who he actually called
was the cosmos landlord The police put a wiretap on the

(38:44):
landlord's phone and side note even though the mom didn't have
to hear her childlike screaming,it's the real bad just hearing
that. Yeah, that's someone calls your
house. But either way, they put a
wiretap on the phone, but Clifford never calls that number
back. He's not stupid.

(39:04):
Now, this is the first time thatthe police realized that he had
recordings of the crimes. And they learn that this serial
killers trophies, aren't clothing or items, it's their
voices. This is a detail that could be
used to find him, but it's real bad.

(39:26):
Now, Raymond King is picked up, just like all the other boys
with an offer for a job, but Raymond actually fought him back
and ran away, and he probably would have gotten away.
Except they ended up fighting and Raymond fell down an
embankment, where he broke his legs Clifford, then climbed down
the embankment and Bash, the boy's head in with a rock.

(39:50):
Sacred arm was just naive. She thought that all the people
she met in Canada were so kind and nice.
And so, when they stranger offered her a ride, she was
like, okay, it was after synchron's murder, that the
police began to watch Clifford. And they didn't think he was the

(40:12):
murderer, but they were like, he's got to know, he's got to
know something, he always knows something.
Whoo, yah horse so they bring him in for questioning and they
asked him over and over again. Are there any new criminals in
town? Do you know a lot of these
children? How do you know these children
Clifford's like? Well how much will you pay me?
If I find this out for you, you know, if I go undercover like I

(40:34):
used to and the police were like, listen, we've got
discretionary funds but you got to give us Gonna go on here and
so Clifford and his greed makes a stupid move.
He's like, listen, I don't know who did this but I think I know
where the bodies might be. And he tells them some of the
locations saying that, you know,he Heard it Through the
Grapevine, but this does not make any logical sense.

(40:58):
Yeah. Okay, first of all, I'm still
pissed even though I realized, like I remembered that you told
me that I was going to be upset this episode because the fucking
police hate him. To tell him.
Hey, do you find out how much in, just how this goes down?
No, I don't want to know sad. So, here's the thing.

(41:22):
The police are like, yeah, yeah.We'll look into that.
And they're like, okay, either he's the killer, or he's an
accomplice because election surewe'll pay you having no
intention to pay him, they put him under 24-hour surveillance.
Unfortunately, it wasn't, it didn't get approved fast enough
because Terry Lynn Carson got abducted in the same area where

(41:46):
he picked up Christine Weller. He actually had seen her a bunch
of times as he drove around town.
And one day after casing her, hestopped and offered her a ride.
Same as before, applies are withdrinks.
Takes her out to Chilliwack assaults her while she's under
the influence and waits until she wakes up then strangles her
and stabbed her to death. I believe that Terry's murder

(42:12):
was him attempting to relive hisfirst one.
He picked her up in the same community and he committed the
same crime. He killed her in the same way
and this isn't uncommon for serial killers that first kill
is like getting high on a drug and just like somebody who

(42:33):
abuses drugs, the same amount ofdrugs, no longer are effective
with killing Can't never recapture that feeling.
So they go into a frenzy, tryingto get the adrenaline rush from
before Clifford, is in the middle of a frenzy, as far as
like, how the FBI defines this, but unlike say, a serial killer
at Kemper, he's not self-aware enough to understand the

(42:57):
compulsion and just three days after killing Terry.
He's back on the street hunting for another victim, and that was
Louis, chartres, and on July 30th.
Louise was the oldest victim at 17 years old and she was on her
way to work in Maple Ridge, British Columbia.
He offered her a ride. To take her the rest of the way

(43:18):
and Louise wasn't unaware of therisks.
She more than likely had seen the new stories but Clifford
knew how to turn on the charm when he needed it.
And so she accepted the ride butshe very quickly realized they
were driving away from her job pretty quickly.
She refused his offer to drink anything and she even tried to
talk her way out of the Our, when she went to try and open

(43:39):
the door, he hit her in the headwith a hammer and knocked her
out. He took her up to Whistler
Mountain and pretty much did anything possible that he could
to try and give himself some semblance of satisfaction, but
it just wasn't doing anything. And virtually.
As soon as he buried Louise, he went back out on the road,

(44:00):
looking for another victim that night.
Now, unbeknownst to clever at the police assemble a quiet
time. Task force very quietly who are
following him all day long. The even watch him.
Commit other crimes like burglary, and they're like oh so
that explains why he has so muchmoney because he's working his

(44:21):
regular job and also burglarizing like he must have
been going out virtually every night.
And when he wasn't trying to like find victims, he's just
stealing stuff. But they're like listen we don't
care if he burglarized has a home we'll deal with that later.
Plus he's already been to prison20 times for burglary and they

(44:44):
watched him go and buy drugs. Do drugs they took notes about
how he was living like a complete double life and it was
something that his wife didn't know about.
But I'm just gonna, this isn't asituation like Judith with the
Green River Killer. I think Joan just like didn't

(45:06):
want to see anything because Clifford is not doing a good
job. Like at hiding things like she's
like he's home. He's look at that.
He's feeding the baby. Wonderful good.
Good. Good.
Almost husband. good husband, but like outside of that, he

(45:30):
seems erratic randomly getting wasted every night like And they
also knows that like he would just take off and drive four
hours in a random Direction. And then you would stop in a new
city and he would talk to all these different people and they
just kind of watch this go on for about two weeks.

(45:55):
This was an exceptionally expensive surveillance up, he is
costing them so much money in gas and this is when gas was
like a dollar 25. Oh wow.
So they're like what is he goingto do something?
They have to wait too long August 12th.
He pretty much spent hours driving back and forth over

(46:18):
Vancouver Island until he sees two young girls hitchhiking and
they were on a Road. Near Port Alberni, and the
police are sitting there distance and they can see
virtually everything. It's nighttime, he has the light
on the Jeep and the girls are kind of talking to him through
the window. and they're kind of going back and forth and these
particular officers are struggling because they're like

(46:45):
If we pick the wrong time, we lose the opportunity to get him.
But what if he picks these girlsup and we lose them?
And he kills both of them. so they're pretty much sitting
there they're like but if we youknow if we pick them up too
early well given to girls a ridehome isn't illegal You know?

(47:07):
And so they're kind of argue against this is going on.
And this goes on for like another 20, 30 minutes is the
girls are kind of I guess bartering with him too.
And the two girls walk around and climb into the truck.
One in the passenger seat and one in the local backseat.
And the officers are like, you know what, screw it and they

(47:27):
turn on the siren and pull him over, pull the girls out of the
truck and then they kind of as they have him like cuffed in the
backseat of their car like okay crap.
We didn't we can't catch him in the ACT but what do we do?
So they put them in a Cell in Burnaby and they put them in on

(47:49):
burglary charges because they'relike we saw him burglarize like
five houses. So we Got him on that, and with
his extensively long history of Escape attempts, no bail, right?
And so then the higher ranking officers show up and they're
like, wow, Clifford back at it again.

(48:12):
Yeah, exactly. Normally when Clifford would get
caught like, for the burgers or stuff, he would just kind of
give up and be like, yeah, whatever I did it.
And so they've kind of walked into the room with him and they
were like So so what happened here?
And normally Clifford was Booth,the police.
He kind of played this like me Kroll with them but the the

(48:35):
Clifford they met that day was adifferent man.
This was not fearful Clifford assoon as these officers walk in,
he waits for them to all come inand he goes.
I'll let you know where the restof the bodies are.
He's like, I need you to pay me money that I can put into a
trust for my son and my wife, and the police are kind of like

(48:56):
what? Yeah.
What the fuck and who's walking?They're like, well Just say, we
believe you how much money do you think each of the bodies are
worth? And he goes ten thousand dollars
per child know immediately. They think it's a scam, they're
like, okay, we don't have the right guy.

(49:17):
These younger officers, got it wrong, he's just messing with
us, you know. But they keep them, they hold
them and they go. Well, we've got his car in
impound because that's normally what happens when you get
arrested. And so they decide not to
respond to Clifford's offer, butthey do decide to go and give

(49:38):
his truck a look over. And that's when they find his
little box of Tricks, under the front seat, the syringes the
drugs, the Hammer of the spikes,everything cleaned particular
asleep, but definitely very, very suspicious, and they just
can't find anything. There's no gas station ticket,
that shows him in the city wherethe kids were picked up or the
Went missing. I mean they pull this truck

(50:00):
apart and then they find something wedged into the
passenger seat so far, back thatit's touching the mechanism that
allows the seat to recline and it's a school notebook.
What? The name, Judy kozma written on
it in a young girl's handwriting.

(50:24):
They actually stopped everything.
No interrogation, no nothing. We're just like, okay, so we
know that Judy was in his truck.They're like, he's gonna agree
and it meant that he did it. We just have to give him a
hundred thousand dollars. They go back to the

(50:46):
interrogation. They give him cigars food
anything to try and get them talking, but he's not giving
anything. And the only piece of evidence
they have is this notebook and it's not enough, but still they
head over to the prosecutors andthey bring up all the
circumstantial evidence. And on August 25th, he's charged
with the murder of Jews. Judy kozma.

(51:08):
There's still this weird question in the air though,
about whether they should acceptthis weird deal.
At this point, the police only have four bodies and 11 total
missing children, they rip aparthis house.
They find nothing, no tapes, no items, no nothing, they
investigate Joan, they find nothing.

(51:28):
And then Man by the name of Corporal Fred mail.
Goes and pulls Clifford out of his cell for interrogation and
when Clifford meets Corporal male he's like okay, this is the
guy, this is the guy that gets stuff done.
And so Clifford just says 11 bodies for a hundred thousand
dollars and male repeats it backto him like for a hundred

(51:52):
thousand dollars in cash. You want to provide us with the
bodies of the missing kids and Clifford's like not just the
bodies. I'll give you a signed statement
on each of them and evidence. I'll sign off on everyone.
So Corporal males like listen, We can't just give you all this

(52:13):
money based on your say, we would need some kind of
assurance that you're on the level and Clifford's.
Like, you know, likewise I want to make sure that Joan gets the
money before we go any further and that you all aren't trying
to trick me. So he's like, how about this?
I'll give you a freebie. I'll tell you where this child
is and give you the statement, you get the ten thousand dollars

(52:35):
in cash. And when we go to the scene, you
call your men and hand that money.
Over to my Joan and I'll call Joan to make sure she got it and
then we can get on with the restof that.
This conversation, definitely settles it for the rest of the
police that they have the right guy.
But Corporal mail however isn't fully ready to commit.

(52:56):
So Corporal males like what about your lawyer?
Like your lawyer is not going tojust sit back and let you do
this and Clifford lasted him. This is all being recorded and
Clifford's. Like this is my lawyer, he works
for me. He does what I tell him to do
and then he asks, he's like, so let's write a contract and so
here's what it says this is. Of an agreement between RCMP,

(53:20):
that's the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and Clifford
Robert Olson. This is this will be paid to
assist paid by the RCMP to mrs. Jones, I'll send for the
following information ten thousand dollars cash for each
body of a missing person up to seven bodies.
Thirty thousand dollars for information of four bodies which

(53:41):
have already been recovered, which relate to the above seven.
Other people missing the agreement should be undertaken
and shall be binding and law as not to disclose this
information. In this agreement to the
Canadian, press the following missing persons are covered in
the city are covered in, disagreement Judy kozma, Darren
Todd, John's Rod, Raymond King, Simon.
Partington 8 quart Louis chartres and Christine Weller.

(54:03):
Terry Len, Carson Colleen marrying diagonal, sick.
Renard and one identify unidentified female ten thousand
dollars will be paid to miss Alston up to a total of the
recovery of seven bodies Clifford.
Science it asked us, Corporal mail, but Corporal mail is like
listen, this has to be approved by somebody way higher up than

(54:24):
me. He's like I don't have
permission to To give a hundred thousand dollars to you.
And after the interviews over Clifford calls, Joan and he's
like, listen, you're going to berich, you're going to live in
the lap of luxury for the rest of your life.
Thanks to the deal that I just made and Jones.
Like what are you talking about?The police were just here.

(54:45):
They tore up the house. They keep asking me.
All these are terrible questionsabout you and he's just like
This phone call is being recorded, but you're going to
get a visit from my lawyer, who's going to lay things out
for you? Don't talk about anything over
the phone but you and Stephen are going to be well taken care

(55:06):
of. So, Corporal male takes this
paper, the commanding officers, his commanding officers and
they're like, we don't have the ability to give him this.
And so, those guys take it to their superiors, who look at it
and are like, we don't have the ability to approve this.
And it goes all the way up to the attorney general Allen

(55:28):
Williams. The Attorney General is
responsible for pretty much all of the criminal justice
proceedings that happen in Canada and attorney, general
Williams has a lot to think about.
He's like, listen, plea, Bargains and things of that
nature aren't uncommon in our justice system.
And there's background deals andbackroom deals.

(55:51):
He looks over Olsen's history and he's Like the police have
paid him. A fair amount of money over the
years to be an informant. Is this any different the
problem and what really got stuck for him as that he doesn't
want to be the one to give a criminal money.

(56:12):
For his crime. He also doesn't want to set a
precedent that a criminal. Could turn themselves in for
money because that's going to cause a huge massive too.
He knows the only way that he thinks he can even get close to
having this greenlit, is that there is absolutely no way
Clifford Olson, Junior can ever leave prison ever again.

(56:35):
And that would mean, because if he was allowed to leave again,
that's the opportunity to kill now, attorney general Williams,
look over all the evidence and he agrees with the lower
prosecutors, there's no way. We're going to get a conviction
with only circumstantial evidence.
Even if they take the freebie and let the rest of the crime
stand on solved, the citizens ofCanada aren't going to be happy

(56:58):
about that either. Even with the signed confession
because there's still seven, missing or 60 B 6 more missing
people. And he's like, all right, well
Olsen said, he'll never tell anyone and if we can keep the
police from leaking, this then, maybe it'll be okay.
He sits on it for a little bit but ultimately he does sign the

(57:19):
deal but he doesn't like it and he likes it even less when they
bring Clifford into his office acouple days later.
Clifford's wearing this snazzy suit and his lawyers were there.
Jonas, there, she's in a complete zombified State like
Clifford's making jokes laughing, a couple times the

(57:41):
Olson. Lawyers actually ask Joan, does
your husband know what he's doing?
And It's like listen, don't worry about it.
I know they're going to say horrible things.
I did it wasn't me. Who did that?
I was drunk and high when those things happen.
Well, sure it was you which doesn't really change the
situation for Joan because the man that she loves is about to

(58:03):
admit to the world that he has raped and murdered 11 children.
And in fact, in the middle of the office, she just breaks
down. Then Clifford starts telling
people how he wants the money disbursed.
How much is going to go to the lawyer for their fees, how much
he's gonna send to his parents. The rest was going to be put in
a trust that junk control for the baby and mind you.

(58:25):
He asked for this in cash. So they actually have a hundred
thousand dollars in cash. Oh my God, suitcases and stuff
to their friend, the Attorney General.
And he asks his lawyer. Hey, do you think we can make
any more money? If I wrote a book he's like I'll
call it kiss daddy. Goodbye.

(58:46):
What the fuck? I'm sorry.
I'm sorry. I told you, this is the most
Gall I think I've ever seen but it's just were not even at the
worst Parts yet my God, he offers to tell the lawyer
everything and the lawyer is actually like kind of grossed
out. And he does want to do any more

(59:08):
work for Clifford Olson after this Attorney.
General William said that the whole scene made him sick and
that he had made a deal with Satan himself.
But after that, his day doesn't get much better.
Because now they dress him up asa police officer in a disguise
and then they have to drive him around British Columbia with
Corporal mail and for the detectives in the first car

(59:31):
Clifford is having The Best TimeEver.
He's so excited. The center of attention and he
is reviling and showing off his handiwork and this is when he
explains everything he every single detail.
And those five men in the car with him have to sit with him as
they are driving hours across Canada, back and forth to get

(59:52):
all these different bodies and mind you behind them.
Are other police cars Corners Vans to to put the remains in to
take them back. They did record.
Or doll 11 confessions that day and he's talking about like the
death rattles and the smells allthe nasty stuff.

(01:00:16):
But ultimately, everybody is exhumed and the sites to get are
secured. They transfer the money to
Joanne and she puts it in her bank account.
And ultimately the police have to admit in the end that without
Clifford's confession, it's highly unlikely.
They would have found these bodies.
Many of them were seriously decayed already because of where

(01:00:40):
they were buried, or where they were Stewart, bodies and water
bloat, which totally ruins decomposition.
Some of the soil, where some of the bodies were buried mummified
The Remains because of the Pete that was in the soil, some of
the rectums could only. Identified through dental
records because they had been soseverely like their skulls were

(01:01:03):
shattered. All of them had to be identified
by forensic pathologists. And when the, when the police
realized that the victim who wasunknown to them, was the German
tourists. They were like, crap.
We didn't even know she was gonebecause we didn't even know she
was here. Wow, we never would have found

(01:01:26):
her like, as far as her family was concerned Sigmund.
Just sicker and just hadn't. Come back from her trip yet.
And even with her physical body and the description of what she
looked like before she died. It's still took the police
months to get her official records from Germany, so they
could file her death properly and then send her remains back
to her family in Germany. This is a very long day and the

(01:01:51):
police officers who have to sit with him all day are not happy
because as part of his deal, he only wants to eat at
steakhouses. So that's three medians
McDonald's. Three Mia.
That's still too good for him three meals.
I know it really is so he's eating baked potatoes and
T-bone, steaks and drinking sodaand happily chatting with the

(01:02:14):
waitress. And I can just imagine these
five officers just unhappy to behere.
In the meantime, Joan is devastated.
All of this goes on without the media knowing anything.
Corporal male called in all the favors that He had the Attorney
General also called in all the favors and they told the media

(01:02:36):
you cannot report on this. Because of the citizens of
Canada know that we just paid a serial killer 100 Grand.
There's going to be hell to pay.So, a couple of days later, he
asks for the Attorney General Clifford asks and so the
Attorney General shows up and it's just like, I thought our

(01:02:58):
business here was done and Clifford says, well listen, I
gave you the first one for free and I gave you the the next set
for 100,000. What if I told you there were
another 20 bodies and I'll pay you, 5,000 dollars a piece for
those Purple mail is here when this is going on.
He's like, I don't know if this is true or not.

(01:03:22):
But they write it down and they're like, you know what,
just like last time we got to talk to our superiors, got to do
and here's a problem. They thought this investigation
was over. Nope.
Now it's not. And the problem is there are a
butt ton of people missing in North America.
North America people travel and it Canada Canadians travel into

(01:03:42):
America and it's in Turley possible that he could have
picked up any number of hitchhikers and killed them.
Even just accounting for the people who are only missing in
British Columbia, we're still talking potentially a thousand
people and any one of them couldhave been hits.
I mean, at one point, Canada didhave a highway serial killer and
right now, people believe that there is another Highway serial

(01:04:04):
killer who is Indigenous women that's in the 2020s.
So, the police are like, all right, we're gonna look through
every single unsolved murder andsee if there's any potential.
Like any validity that there could be another 20, right?
So they try and narrow it down. To his behavioral patterns

(01:04:28):
because they figured they'd findthe method in the madness.
Like, even though there was no pattern, the lack of a pattern
is a pattern makes one Even whenthey scale it down to the time
period when he was. So at first, they just get in

(01:04:51):
the area where he was living andthey kind of triangulate his
movements and where he was driving.
They get 17 young women and six girls.
And then they scale it down to the time, between November, 17th
and July 1981, and they have 20 potential victims.

(01:05:13):
So Corporal mail comes back to the prison and he's like, all
right, let's talk about this. And this time Clifford's kind of
mad he's had to wait. Now he's just like you know what
I changed my mind, it's back up to ten thousand dollars a body
and the very quickly kind of catches himself and he's like,
you know what? No worries.
The bodies will still be there when you come back around.

(01:05:33):
He actually quote he says you always know where to find me.
Meaning jail. Now, pending the trial he gets
put in jail thing is, he can't blend in, everyone knows why
He's there and child. Predators aren't exactly true.
Very nice in any prison. The prisoners this time through

(01:05:55):
lit cigarettes at him. They throw trash into his cell
when he's sleeping, they knock him around, knock him over push
him, finally gets to a point where they have to put him in
solitary all, but two hours a day, he's allowed to exercise
for one hour when nobody else isin the yard and It the rest of
this time that he's by himself. He's calling up reporters and

(01:06:20):
complaining about the conditionsin the prison.
He says, I'm living like a dog and when they return my suit
that I wore, when they brought me into custody, someone took
off all the buttons and wrote Baby fucker on it.
So you know, just to remind themwhy it was there.
Probably a guard, probably a garden, definitely guard.

(01:06:41):
So of course, like he gives all the local newspapers all the
details and he's like, you know,and he does this because he's
good at he wants to threaten Theattorney general that like, you
know, I'm going to tell them what happened and you're going

(01:07:03):
to get in trouble if you don't give me another hundred grand.
But what he doesn't know is thatthe Press already know and
they've already been paid off, which is why they haven't been
writing about it already. And pretty much the train
General tells them. Listen, if you talk about this
at all, I'm going to hold you incontempt of court.
This is prejudicial knowledge and essentially they're worried

(01:07:26):
that if this goes to trial. And that information is in the
papers, it will skew the jury. It'll cause a mistrial, the date
for the first trial is set, but they actually don't end up
having to have a jury. He just straight up his leg and
I need a jury. I did it.
He even cried while he confessedto all of the murders.

(01:07:49):
After the cork, cork read that all the charges, he says, guilty
just as Harry. McKay was, the presiding judge.
You had a lot to say about Clifford Olson, Junior,
specifically. He said no punishment that any
civilized country could impose would be adequate for the
severity of your crimes. You should never be granted
parole for the remainder of yourdays.
It would be foolhardy to let youat large.

(01:08:10):
And he was sent to Kingston Penitentiary where he was
suspend the rest of his natural life.
And, for a moment, it seemed like the media circus was over.
and then one, Newspaper published the deal because
they're like, there's no trial. The trials, there's no content

(01:08:32):
of Courtney Moore. The public is outraged, the
families are outraged. There's an immediate campaign to
try and force them to return themoney to Canada or forbid to get
for it to be given to the families of victims.
But John's like, I'm not giving this back attorney, general
Williams is Public. Enemy Number One or Public

(01:08:54):
Enemy. Number Two Clifford is number
one. And he tells like, Williams
tells the Press, like, this was a unique case, I don't think
anything, like this will happen.Again, the decision was not easy
for me to make. His crimes are so horrible, they
shouldn't be revealed. I don't want to dwell on the
details. Robert Chance, who was one of

(01:09:15):
Clifford's attorneys even came out saying that this was
politically insane members of parliament, contemned attorney
general Williams and pretty muchtold him your career is over,
from that point on the police, tried to seize the money from
Joan But discovered it was already gone.
Damn, she spent all of it or shemoved it.

(01:09:36):
There's a public inquiry into what happened.
They're trying to find any levelof wrongdoing on the side of the
police, the justice department, the corner.
They look at everybody, they investigate everyone then of
course it becomes a discussion of why didn't you guys pursue
him earlier? What the hell were you doing?
When he raped The Prostitute? The first murder happened around

(01:09:58):
the same time. Jonah's getting harassed by the
Press because she accepted the money and one paper, she just
goes, I'm a good person. I can look myself in the eye in
the mirror and not feel ashamed.And I kind of understand because
she was a victim to in some ways.
This one all the way up to the Supreme Court and the Supreme
Court could not take the money from her.

(01:10:19):
The contract was airtight just because it's immoral, doesn't
make it illegal, of course, Clifford is Having a great time.
He is sending little bits that he wrote himself to the local
papers. One of the guards was quoted in
a newspaper saying they said that they heard him.

(01:10:39):
Say, if I gave a damn about these families, I wouldn't have
killed her kids. Eventually the prison cuts off.
Clifford's communication, he's not allowed to talk to anybody,
not even his family, but he still manages to pass off his
stories and writings to other inmates who Off to the press, it

(01:10:59):
got to the point where some of his victims families were
pursuing, civil cases against him, because of what he was
saying publicly, they started suing him for injuries losses,
but the problem is, like they won those civil cases, but he
had nothing. Nothing was in his name.
Even the house, they owned was in Jones.
Name is terrible. Yep.

(01:11:24):
He could work the rest of his days in prison and never make
enough money to pay what he owedto those people.
And for a little bit of time, he's quiet, he spends, time
focusing on parole which is another annoyance.
Because in almost every country in the world natural life when
you get life in prison tends to be about 25 to 30 years.

(01:11:44):
That's why in some more of the heinous cases in the United
States. They'll do multiple life
sentences to make sure that someone doesn't leave right?
So, Clifford's First parole hearing is in 1997.
He applied under a clause calledThe Faint hope clause or Canada
criminal code. Ask. 7 45.6 which is a statutory

(01:12:04):
provision that allows a prisonerwho's been sentenced to life in
prison. To be eligible for parole once
they've served 15 years. He is denied Force.
Canadian law also says, if you've been convicted of
first-degree murder, you can apply for parole after you've

(01:12:25):
served 25 years. So on July 18, 2006, he tries
again. He's also denied also around
this time, he makes a bunch of bizarre claims like he said that
the u.s. grant him clemency because he knew things about

(01:12:47):
September 11th. What should we know sense?
Because like he was in prison. Yeah.
A fortunately after that, under Canadian law, he is allowed to
request parole, every two years or more, and he does it in 2010.

(01:13:08):
Like every two years and they refused him every single time
now in 2010, he's the source of another bit of controversy.
When the media find out that he's receiving government
benefits from Canada, while in prison house, which amounted to
about 1,100 Canadian dollars. It's not a lot of money but like

(01:13:29):
it's still like 900 bucks us, right?
That's what are you should be good?
Also he's now old enough to receive OAS which is the old age
security. So I like a pension and pretty
much it Canada people who meet residency requirements and of
course, there's like the length of time you lived in Canada and
are 65 or older. You receive that pension.

(01:13:52):
And so January 1st 2010 Cliffordwas 70 years old.
He's also eligible to receive something called the guaranteed
income supplement which awarded was awarded to pensioners who
have low income. And all this money is being held
for him in a trust. So he didn't have access to it
while he's in prison, but peopleare super mad that.

(01:14:12):
Yeah he saw these rights. Yeah, absolutely So the Canadian
taxpayers Federation ended up testifying before the committee
for human resource development and they passed something called
bill c31 which terminated pension benefits.
For prisoners, the organization showed up with 46 thousand
signatures from British Columbiarequesting that Clifford never

(01:14:35):
receive. These benefits, Prime Minister,
Stephen Harper, had the government look into it and in
June 1st, the government terminated his payments based on
the fact that his crime was horrific.
September of 2010. He sent one of those checks to
the Sun to Sun media to a reporter.
With a note asking the reporter to forward.

(01:14:55):
The check to Stephen Harper's campaign for re-election.
Hi-yah and September of 2011. He is discovered to have
terminal cancer. He was transferred to Louisville
Hospital and Quebec where he died a few weeks later at the
age of 71 on September 30th. From the age of 17 Clifford

(01:15:18):
Olson. Spent only 1501 days outside of
a prison cell. That's crazy.
If we take into account the total number of murders, he says
he's committed. It would amount to about 10 a
day. A lot of people say that he fits
a lot of the classic psychopath checklist, and to be fair, when

(01:15:40):
they gave him the psychopathy checklist, he scored 38 out of
40. Yes.
What's get that high? No, no.
Hi is bad. And on this this assessment and
it's a tool to assess institutionalized people.
And yes, while he definitely didhave some antisocial and

(01:16:00):
narcissistic Tendencies he is Very, very manipulative, and
it's very light and he wasn't stupid, so, it's potential that
he could have manipulated those tests that they gave him, he
wouldn't be the first serial killer to do.
So again, at Kemper realized howto write cheat the test, and

(01:16:21):
give them the answers that they want it.
Clifford got high on attention and being more and more
outrageous gave him more attention as far as his
relationships. I think he like Joan.
He liked that she did nice things for him.
You'd mind they had sex, but I sincerely doubt he'll ever loved

(01:16:42):
her. He's one of those few people I
think never loved anybody. One time while he was in prison,
a reporter asked him what do youthink about Hannibal Lecter and
Clifford said, he's made up, I'mthe real thing.
It's gross, he has over the year.

(01:17:04):
Yeah, over the years. People were very upset with
Joan. When she said, she still loved
her husband. She did divorce him in March of
1985 and pretty much kind of lived mostly in obscurity,
occasionally responding to the Press over the years.
She would tell the press that she never actually got to keep

(01:17:24):
any of that money because she spent so much time in court.
Due to the the families of the victims that it kind of just got
cannibalized by court fees. And as for little baby Stephen
Olson, we absolutely don't know what happened to him and I hope
he lived a life where he didn't have to know what his dad does.

(01:17:48):
I hope Joan change both their names and they moved on and had
a perfectly normal life. You can only hope.
Yep. And that's what I got.
Attack. Well, that was infuriating.
I told you. This is the part where he wants

(01:18:10):
to write a book and the title ofthe book I'm going to God.
Oh yeah. About saying goodbye to his son.
Bra. No, okay.
No. Okay, let's talk about Krypton,

(01:18:33):
shall we? Yes, let's talk about some
cryptic. Okay, awesome we're going to do
that. Okay, so today's Creepy,
whatever. It comes actually Brittany.
You wanted to talk about this a few weeks ago.
Actually, do you remember who you were?

(01:19:00):
Okay, so This descripted or creature has a very, very true
tail to it. It's from Kentucky Louisville.
Is that the cool alien Cryptid? I don't think it's cool.

(01:19:24):
That looks like it's wearing a dress.
No, you still talking know that the Flatwoods Monster.
I love the flower with monster not talking about I want to
dress up like the Flatwoods Monster with a cosplay.
Is this your flat ones? Monster.
I want to dress up like the alien address.

(01:19:45):
Not a recruitment is the Flatwoods Monster.
Oh my God. We're going to get you a dress.
That looks like it's damn Flatwoods Monster.
Okay, we're going to do it for you.
I think it's great. Oh my God.

(01:20:06):
Okay so can't act from Kentucky.Yeah I didn't I don't think of
anything from Kentucky other than chicken sorry.
Y'all in Kentucky. Who listen?
Oh my God, okay so isn't there aSheepsquatch from a fall out?

(01:20:30):
Okay, so in Kentucky is, there'sa there's there's this Railroad
underpass, right? Okay.
It's called a Trestle Bridge, Okay?
And the name of this Trestle bridge is called the pope lick
Trestle Bridge. Does the pope lick monster ring

(01:20:56):
any bells to goddamn? It's okay yeah it's something
like I remember you were talkingabout on one day because you
were looking at it and you're like oh my God, this thing is
fucking we like okay. They're this Pope lick monster,

(01:21:16):
it has different origin, stories.
And I can there's one that's like the urban legends of this
thing is weird. The first one is like, it's a,
it's basically. I definitely didn't say anything

(01:21:37):
about the public. This topic monster looks just
like it honestly. Looks like what people A demon's
look like it. I just I remember like I don't
know what it was but you were talking about it and you're
looking it up. I swear you were as this is not
mean there's a lot of there's like a trail cam things that are

(01:21:59):
supposed to look like. Yeah, I love trail cam, footage.
It's awful and super terrible. But anyway, he lives under this
one particular Bridge apparentlyso there are three different
Current like versions of his urban legend.
I'll talk about talk about the one in detail because that's

(01:22:21):
like the main one, but the othertwo is one got a real cool
drawing of him under a bridge. Yeah, one is that he was, I
guess. A like a twisted.

(01:22:42):
This is when reading a twisted reincarnation reincarnated form
of a farmer who sacrificed goatsin exchange for a satanic Powers
the it's just a demon stuff okaythat's that's one version.
Another version amandine get in here I got another Another

(01:23:04):
version is that he is a skinwalker.
It does look very similar. But the main one is that the one
I really looked it up. If this was like the main story
is that he was a half goat half human hybrid.

(01:23:26):
That was a circus freak. And who escaped because he's
being mistreated and he went to live underneath this this trip
this over an overpass just trainoverpass and that is the one I'm
going to reach you. It's a it's a, you know, it's a

(01:23:48):
it's a tail urban legend tail. So, I'm going to read it that
and God is long. Well, I mean you are the one in
control. I recommend of the pie.
I know and I want to read it. You want to shorten it?
Go ahead and shorten it. We'll see.

(01:24:09):
We'll see if I don't think I will just because okay.
So one thunderously stormy night.
Well I stopped in a small town near Beltsville Maryland.
The circus bearded lady Madame Bristol's discovered in
abandoned infant left and a hate-filled crate outside her

(01:24:30):
tent. The child was severe severely.
Malformed with stubs protruding from its forehead and the shape
and legs that ended in what's look more like cloven Hooves
than hoop to Human. She took the poor creature in
and gave it food and shelter. One, look at the twists,

(01:24:50):
Abomination and Colonel. Yeah, I can't pronounce this.
If he'll dick neck. Okay.
That's what his name is. The colonel.
That's his name. He's the colonel and his
Colonel. He knew that he had struck gold.

(01:25:13):
He had found a story attraction for his freak show.
That would make him Rich. Beyond his Wildest Dreams.
He took a child and raise it in captivity.
Never letting it out of his sight or its cage until I could
be fully exploited for its grotesque appearance.
The Beast grew in size and strength over the years it's

(01:25:36):
those becoming a full-size hornsand his temperament as nasty as
a temperament given to it by thecruel.
Circus carnies charged with keeping it in prison.
It spent most of it's life, change the world of a cage
inside a circus train with brutally daily to keep it

(01:25:58):
subdued and submissive and fed only gruel and leftover scraps
from the made the midday vendor grease pits one fateful night
during a thunderstorm as violent.
As the one on a night of its birth, the circus train was
passing through Fisher bill on its way to a performance in

(01:26:19):
Louisville Kentucky, when a boltof lightning struck the tracks
causing the train to derailed, just ahead of the trestle over
Pope Lick Creek. The Twist that wreck probably
killed most of the Colonel's crew instantly but not all of
them. Okay.

(01:26:40):
Since body parts were found as far away as two miles from the
crash site What is known for a fact?
Is that the Goatman which is what they called him survived.
The tragic train wreck finally set free from its life of
torture, exploitation and imprisonment and it took event

(01:27:02):
revenge on the Survivors by ripping them to bloody shreds.
The Colonel's body was never found and it was it is suspected
that a few of his Cutthroat crewof clowns.
Circus freaks in dangerous animals.
May also man survived the deadlyaccident but were never found.

(01:27:25):
Obviously, you're gonna say the Clown's killed eyes.
That's honestly where I thought that was gone.
I just love the name is the cut,the Cutthroat crew of clouds.
I love it. Okay.
Um Due to the numerous deaths missing persons deer in

(01:27:47):
livestock, mutilations and Goatman, sightings that have
been reported in the ensuing years.
There is good reason to believe the Goatman of Pope lick never
left the area. He is believed to have taken a
residence in either and underground cave or ramshackle
Hut somewhere and what it area near the train trestle his

(01:28:11):
inbred hate of proulx him. City has made him a bloodthirsty
and dangerous piece to be avoided at all costs.
Those who dare to trans, press trip.
God, those who dare to trespass into his demean have met their
fate at his hands. The Courier-Journal records, at

(01:28:32):
least two confirmed deaths, deaths in 1987, and 1988 and
many injuries and close calls, attributed to the pope lick, A
monster and his protected Trestle.
The Trestle raises, 90 feet 90 feet.
Yeah, 90 feet above Pope lick, creep Creek, and stretches 772

(01:28:56):
feet across to the other side. Also incapable of human speech.
The Goatman is said to be able to mimic human voices and has
been known to call out the namesof those who have climbed to the
top of the Trestle in order to lure.
I'm out onto the tracks. Just as a nun coming.
Train is coming around a Bend tostill there.

(01:29:20):
The seals are doom. Oh, no, I'm sorry.
Getting into it. You've got on weekend nights
during the month of October, andespecially during the cycle of
the full moon, the Goatman is said that to be most active in
the woods and Hills surrounding the pope.

(01:29:41):
Lick trestle. Those who have attempted to
drive Beneath The Trestle. At the stroke of midnight, have
reported being chased by the Beast, who can run at speeds of
nearly 60 miles per hour. And more than one report has,
claimed the loss of their car door handle, or bloody claw

(01:30:01):
prints left on your car door after a Pursuit.
In the mid-1970s rumors of a saint and a satanic cult, in
demonic rituals began circulating in the same area
along Public Road and reports ofmissing dogs, cats, and other

(01:30:23):
domestic animals were suspected of falling prey to satanic blood
site, ceremonies Amy, serious Farm known as The Four Winds
down the street. A few A few miles from the treat
recipe were suspected of being owned by a group of Satan has

(01:30:44):
Satan. This God, satanists who worship
the public monster as the livingembodiment of.
How do you pronounce this Baphomet boffin, but from Bad,
laughs Bethenny? Yeah, oh yeah, the the main guy,
the main because yeah, the go ofMendes himself, a mock, a
marking of the image of a land. I am as the embodiment of Christ

(01:31:08):
who died for the sins of humanity, blah blah.
The Four Winds Farm was surrounded by a red and black
painted fence, drew the 1980s and into the 1990s with a sign
that the river the sign at the front gate warning trespassers
will be persecuted strange tribal drum beats and chanting

(01:31:32):
were often heard in the woods behind the Barn Farm. um,
that's, I'm going to read about that for right now.
So basically there's a satanic cult and this Pope lick monster
was a circus freak, who escaped?During a train crash. and now, I

(01:31:59):
said there was some troops into in this story, right?
A little bit of Truth. So there is a Trestle and
Louisville. Kentucky, it's over the pope.
Lick Creek Park is by their public park, whatever, Public
Road, and all that good stuff. Pope lick, it's just La puplic,

(01:32:21):
okay? Yes, I also saw a news story,
that's a kid fell off of it. That's where I'm going with
this. So, this, this Trestle,
apparently it's a thing for either tours or I guess not
local kids, but or local people.But like a lot of Tours they go

(01:32:44):
there. To like, look for this Pope lick
Monster, not thinking that this like because the Taurus Taurus
go. There they asked for, you know,
what spooky around here, what's,you know, what's exciting?
And, you know, doing Pope lick or Louisville Kentucky?

(01:33:06):
And, you know, you know, if theytalked to the wrong people,
they're like, oh, you know, there's this Trestle, you know,
that Russell is, right. All right.
Well, if we go up this Trestle right over here, you can might,
you might be able to meet a goatman.
And if you got to see here in the top of the Trestle though,

(01:33:27):
so you see, on top of the Trestle goat man will appear at
the strike of midnight, all right?
Is this still? This isn't still a working
traffic. It is a working Trestle.
Okay. See, that's my thing.
Because Trestle is very thin bridge that only fits a train.
It only nothing else. No nothing else.

(01:33:48):
There's no walkway. Nothing.
It only thing that goes on. Just made for train passing,
absolutely one. Yep.
And so like these tours, they gohere and they're like, okay well
I don't see it and you know they're you know these these
people are like oh don't worry. It ain't working at trade on, go

(01:34:09):
by and all more but train goes by a lot more than you think.
And some people have died because of this.
Some people have. I don't think they've getting
they got hit by the train but, you know, they've they've had to
hang from the Trestle. As they see this train coming as

(01:34:31):
a walking on it, somebody had todrop down to hang on it and some
people can't hang that long, andit's 90 feet above the ground.
It's also like a lot of them areabove water.
Yeah, to cover like a body like a river or something and they'd
probably be more likely to survive.

(01:34:53):
But I'm looking at this one in particular, some overrode, it's
just just land just concrete. Yep.
Beneath you, it's right above a road and people like there, I
was just reading one that some guy in his fiance, I guess, you
know, they were doing is and he Had to hang, but she couldn't

(01:35:14):
make it in time. So she and she fell and she died
and he said this is like the worst.
That was like the worst day of my life is like, the worst thing
that happened to me when I saw was from 2019, a
fifteen-year-old dies, and it was sad because it was like yet
again, another accident on the pope.
Lick, trestle. And I'm like, dang this is

(01:35:38):
common apparently, two little girls were on the track and they
did not hang they got hit. Yeah.
One died in the other was in thehospital for a while.
Yeah. Oh, it says, in 2016, Ohio

(01:35:59):
tourists will quell beIN died insearch for the public monster,
but Russell is 742. Feet long.
Yeah. Yeah.
And it is 90 foot drop at the center and 20 or 30 near the end
of the row. Cobain was also hit and fell,

(01:36:19):
she died on the scene. It's that's the lady.
Yeah that's her. The her boyfriend was the one
who said. Yep.
Yeah yep. Her name was Rick well.
Okay. Yeah, there are no sightings
whether actual reported, sightings parently a retired

(01:36:40):
train engineer said that while he was, I guess.
The he routinely went down that path.
There were 43 collisions while he worked there over 34 years.
So at least once a year, somebody died on that Trestle
while he was working there. It claims that I think I found

(01:37:01):
the number. The total number.
Yeah. He was just saying his time.
Yeah. It's just 34.
It was probably more because they're still doing it.
Yeah. It's not a thing that's probably
going to stop anytime soon. Unfortunately.
Now I remember, yeah, here's thething.

(01:37:22):
I'm not super interested in meeting a goat man, in general.
No, no. Because we see, like, depictions
of see him like the devil. So, I mean, like, well, like I
said, yeah, like you said, theseare all very close to devil.
People goats aren't exactly all that nice to begin with.

(01:37:45):
It's true. Like you're worried about goats
and goats are trash. Listen they're aggressive.
They eat your clothes. Shit goes for trash.
So I'm just saying like he's probably got a bad disposition
if he's part goat. Oh, you know what I think.

(01:38:07):
I remember what you're talking about when we first brought this
up and it's that there was a movie about it.
It's called The let the legend of the Pope lick monsters only
16 minutes though. And it came out in 1988
interested. I'm not sure if there are any
other movies about know it. Yep.

(01:38:29):
No, it doesn't sound super. I honestly, it's kind of sort of
reminds me of the video game, The Quarry like they're sort of
story situation that happens with Freak Show.
Yes, okay yes yes. Yeah only it's a different kind

(01:38:50):
of monster but I was like oh that's similar I wonder if
that's where they got the idea from interesting maybe and like
I would rather meet his Sheepsquatch.
Then we the pope lick monster just saying, so question
Sheepsquatch is it just a Giant's?
She okay. So the Sheepsquatch is kind of

(01:39:12):
like So you haven't played Fallout 76.
Oh yeah, but see it's I haven't seen one in the game.
It's a very furry large type of They called us youth squads,
because it's big for one. It's big like this.
A nice at all know. They're big.

(01:39:32):
They have it's got a skull face.It's Terrance.
So I think Sheepsquatch them like cute, no coffee.
They're just very hairy and theyhave they have sheep or Ram's
horns as you know, overheads and.
Yeah, I don't want to meet theseguys in the game.
They're not fun to fight. I'll tell you that for Right

(01:39:54):
now. Don't fight them alone.
I remember hearing you be mad. Okay um so here's one more
thing. So you remember that that
Cryptid love coloring book. I have ha ha.
So there's a thing in here for the pope lick monster.
Uh-huh! Do you want me to read his

(01:40:16):
dating profile for you? Sure.
Let's see. Who he wants to be.
Okay, so the tagline says, looking for someone on track.
I love it. It's name is Slick.
The pope liquor. Turn-ons 50.

(01:40:40):
Filthy fishnet stockings turnoffis Mondays.
Yes, okay. Favorite movie is the two popes.
Okay. And I guess their profile
paragraph. They have.
Can you feel that vibration a connection?

(01:41:01):
I promise you. This is not the hypnotic
suggestion. Just take a little stroll.
Over by those train tracks. You'll be fine promise.
What do you say cat? Got your tongue coat.
Goat, has you by the throat? This sheep has come to put you
to sleep. Ha ha ha.

(01:41:23):
I'm just messing with you. So, what are you doing?
Friday night. Oh my God.
He loved the think so much and then yeah, it has a picture of
it. Of course because it's a
coloring book. But like, yeah, the picture is
basically, it's not even like a goat person.

(01:41:46):
It's deep, it's like a demon, itjust looks like a demon, like a
demon on a stripper pole. If that's that's that's the only
way I can explain this how it looks.
Um whoo that was fun during wellwe had a nice, a nice podcast

(01:42:09):
today. Yes, if you're still here with
us, thank you so much for listening.
See guys like you.

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The Crime and End of Clifford Olson Jr and the Pope lick monster.

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