June 4, 2025 • 38 mins
Cancer treatments have evolved dramatically from automatic death sentences in the 1970s to manageable conditions where patients can live for additional years or even decades with proper care.
• Ruth's experience with her oncology team demonstrates the importance of having specialists who collaborate effectively with primary care physicians
• Different types of cancer treatments include surgery, chemotherapy, radiation, immunotherapy, targeted therapy, hormone therapy, and stem cell transplants
• Immunotherapy represents a breakthrough approach that helps the immune system recognize and fight cancer cells naturally
• Cancer can affect virtually any organ or system in the body, with varying risk factors and survival rates
• Five-year survival rates for localized cancers range from 36% for brain cancer to nearly 49% for esophageal cancer
• Recent advancements include improved treatments for breast cancer, genetic tools for pancreatic cancer, and CAR-T cell therapy
• Prevention strategies include avoiding tobacco, eating a healthy diet, staying physically active, protecting yourself from sun exposure, and getting regular screenings
• Regular healthcare check-ups are crucial for early detection, especially in areas with limited access to medical facilities
Remember to protect yourself from UV rays even on cloudy days - they still penetrate cloud cover and can cause sunburn!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kevin (00:00):
Soundstripe.
Palmi (00:02):
Welcome to our podcast.
When life gives you lemons, I'mKevin and I'm Palmi.
Kevin (00:10):
We consider ourselves disability advocates and intend
to spotlight some disabilityissues and things we find
interesting that we frequentlyencounter when we're out and
about.
Also some history on disabilitythat we find interesting.
Palmi (00:26):
Welcome back everybody.
This is Kevin.
Welcome Palmi.
Kevin (00:32):
Hey Kevin.
Palmi (00:33):
And today we're just basically talking about the
interview and going a little bitmore deeper about cancer and
cancer treatment, correct?
Kevin (00:48):
Yeah, that's what we're doing.
Okay, we had a nice visit withRuth and Byrl.
Both she's looking so muchbetter than when we were there
last time.
Yeah, I think she's feelingbetter.
Yeah, she said she was.
Palmi (01:04):
One thing that she brought out during the interview
is that she has a team ofoncologists and oncology-related
specialists that talk to herprimary care physician and
decide what course of treatmentis better for her.
(01:27):
And once her primary carephysician is very good at
explaining things the way sheunderstands so the doctors can
all talk, doctors speak.
(01:47):
Then he'll kind of break itdown for her and explain what's
going on, and she reallyappreciates that sort of contact
with her medical team.
Kevin (01:57):
Yeah, she really trusts her team.
Palmi (02:00):
She really likes her primary care physician, who
she's seen for a number of years.
She has not had a chance tospend years and years meeting
her oncology team.
Kevin (02:16):
In fact I think this is her second one.
She had one and he moved awayor retired, and then the new one
came on and he took it overafter this one left.
But she's actually very hasreally adapted to the new one
also.
Palmi (02:35):
You know, one of the things she mentioned is that all
her oncology team was basicallytreated.
It consists of people who areeither at Vanderbilt, Vanderbilt
yeah.
Vanderbilt University.
Kevin (02:55):
They just put a new Vanderbilt site in at Cookville
Right .
Palmi (03:11):
The entire staff at our oncology department is either
trained by vanderbilt or fallsat a vanderbilt doctorology?
Yeah, of the way they do things, the way the charts, etc.
Kevin (03:18):
Yeah, they're right on.
I've gone to, I think, two uhtreatments with her and they're
right on it.
I've gone to, I think, twotreatments with her and they're
right on it.
You know they are veryattentive, they know her, you
know you feel welcome when youwalk in.
You know she's had a fewincidents where strange things
have happened and she's calledand you know right away they
(03:39):
were right on it and tookimmediate care to her, for her.
So I think that's amazing.
I do too for those of us betterwhen you're four hours away and
you can't get there as quicklyas you'd like to be.
Palmi (03:55):
You know, you know I graduated high school in 1978,
basically people who got cancerback in that days.
Kevin (04:06):
Didn't survive.
Palmi (04:07):
Were usually just automatically assumed that was a
death sentence.
Kevin (04:13):
Yeah yeah.
She has a friend who, as shementioned in her interview, I
think has been doing this for, Ithink, 10 years.
Palmi (04:23):
Yeah.
Kevin (04:24):
I mean it's a pain in the butt to do, but it's allowed
her to live for an additional 10years.
And she mentioned this immunetherapy, which I had never heard
before, which helps the immunesystem fight the cancer, because
we just mentioned in theprevious interview our episode
that cancer tries to evade theimmune system.
Palmi (04:49):
So it's something that enriches your immune system to
try to fight the cancer Rightwhich is basically the first
step in what you go with forexample, with the COVID vaccine
that was an mRNA-type vaccinewas to identify the cancer
(05:15):
markers and specifically whatthe cancer cells look and act
like.
They can impart thatinformation into the body's
immune system and the cells cando a better job of targeting the
cancer.
Kevin (05:37):
Whereas before it was just well to kill the cancer.
Palmi (05:42):
we've got to basically kill everything until the cancer
is there, no more.
But here they want to kill alittle bit of cancer and stop it
from spreading, and then letthe immune system perhaps get
(06:05):
clued into what's going on andcontinue the fight.
You don't have all thosenoxious toxic chemicals in your
system, you don't have theeffects of radiation in your
body.
You just kind of let it happennaturally, so to speak.
Kevin (06:31):
So, depending on the type of cancer, there's several
kinds of treatments that areavailable, Depending on the type
, the stage and the individual'shealth factors.
The most common approaches,which is surgery, to remove the
cancerous tumor or the affectedtissue.
There's chemotherapy, which isdrugs to kill or slow the growth
of the cancer cells.
(06:52):
There's radiation, whichtargets the cancer cell with
high energy radiation, basicallytrying to kill it.
Immune therapy, which we justtalked about, which helps the
immune system fight the cancer.
There's targeted therapy, whichfocuses specific molecules
involved in the cancer growth.
There's hormone therapy, whichblocks or remove hormones that
(07:17):
fuel certain cancers, like youwere just talking about.
There's stem cell transplantsreplaces damaged bone marrow
with healthy cells.
And then there's hypothermiaand photodynamic therapy.
Which uses heat andlight-activated drugs to destroy
(07:38):
cancer cells.
Sometimes, treatments are oftencombined for the best results,
and cancer comes in many formsand there are several different
kinds of cancers, so let's gothrough a few that are listed.
Palmi (07:58):
Okay, we're going to roll off the list, but the rule of
thumb, the list, but the rule ofthumb.
Any organ in your body can be asource of cancer cells.
Not just organs, blood Okay,blood also is.
(08:24):
Again, we go back to those twotypes we talked about last time.
Leukemia is basically cancer ofthe blood and lymphoma is
basically cancer cellstransported by your lymphatic
system.
Kevin (08:39):
Okay, so I'll do one, you do one.
How's that?
Palmi (08:42):
Okay.
Kevin (08:44):
So breast cancer the most commonly diagnosed cancer in
the United States?
I didn't know that.
Palmi (08:51):
I think one of the reasons that makes it so is you
can actually carry a gene thatmakes you more susceptible to
breast cancer.
Kevin (09:02):
Really, is that correct?
Yeah, you can carry the gene, Iknow that, but you think it's
based on our genetics?
Palmi (09:09):
then I think, so.
I don't think it means if youhave that gene you're going to
have breast cancer.
I know you're more susceptible,yeah.
It just means you're morelikely than average to get, say,
breast cancer.
That may or may not be the casewith other types of cancer.
Kevin (09:32):
I just plain don't know the answer to that, and I
believe that's men or women, menor women.
Palmi (09:37):
Breast cancer does affect both sexes.
Yes, both sexes.
Yes, which I did not know untilI started reading stuff during
the research of this process,yep.
The next on the list ischemotherapy.
Kevin (10:00):
No no.
Palmi (10:03):
Liver lung cancer.
Okay, I'm looking at the wrongspot.
Obviously Lung cancer, which isa leading cause of
cancer-related deaths.
One of the reasons that that isway up there is previous
generations have spent so manyyears smoking, which is a
(10:24):
leading contributor to lungcancer Right which we didn't
know for a long time.
Other breathing diseases likeCOPD, epizema and such.
Kevin (10:37):
Yeah, prostate cancer is common among men.
It's often slow growing and itwasn't tested for for a long
time.
Palmi (10:47):
Do women even have prostates?
So that's why she legallyrelated to men Right Okay,
gotcha, okay Okay.
Colorectal cancer.
I imagine that can be eithersex Right.
And a lot of the things you seea lot of TV ads for colonoscopy
(11:15):
.
Kevin (11:15):
That's why you get your colonoscopy.
Palmi (11:16):
And colic or things that allow you to catch colon cancer
before it's obvious, before it'shurting you.
Kevin (11:27):
I think there's a connection between hot dogs,
that type of food, lunch meatsand stuff like that.
Palmi (11:35):
Processed meats.
Kevin (11:37):
Processed foods.
Yeah, so I think there's aconnection there.
They say not to eat that.
For that connection.
Palmi (11:46):
I thought that was just a general health thing.
Kevin (11:51):
But I think it's more related to the colon and the
rectum cancer.
Palmi (11:54):
Which kind of makes sense , I guess?
Kevin (11:59):
Melanoma I lost my place too sorry.
A melanoma a serious form ofskin cancer, and now that we're
having more and more of ourozone depleted, I think that's
becoming more of a serious issue.
Palmi (12:18):
Okay, that's fake news Pommy.
Kevin (12:21):
Whatever?
Palmi (12:22):
Whole ozone layer is closing in, healing itself.
Kevin (12:26):
Okay.
Palmi (12:27):
Well.
Kevin (12:29):
I know three people in my volleyball group that's had
skin cancer removed recently, soI know it's a big thing.
Palmi (12:37):
Yeah, I know that every single time you go to the doctor
and get, for example, a skintag or a mole removed, they
always tested to see if anythingin that that was removed was
cancerous.
In years gone by, when I wasyounger, at least tanning in the
(13:03):
sun was very, very popularRight which led to a lot of
people not using any or verylittle sunscreen.
Kevin (13:14):
When I was a kid, we used to use baby oil and sit out in
the sun, which was like tanningyourself Anti-sunscreen yeah.
It's like tanning a turkeybeaching their based in a turkey
.
Yeah, okay, so the next one isgive me other ultraviolet light
(13:34):
wait, little little did we know,right.
Palmi (13:36):
I think there's still people that do that, so one
comment misconception aboutultraviolet light and sunscreen
is ultraviolet light penetratesclouds, so even if it's a cloudy
day, wear your sunscreen.
Kevin (13:55):
Yeah, I was just telling Kevin, I was planting our garden
and it was completely cloudy,in fact there was almost rain
clouds, and I was out there allday long and I was planting my
plants and I came in and the topof my forehead of course, I
didn't think to wear a hatbecause one.
It was actually cool outsideand I actually had a little bit
(14:19):
of a sunburn on the top of myhead and I never would have
thought to have to put somelotion or sun tanning or sun
protection out from it becauseit was so nice, you know, cool
and no sun.
It was actually a little rainyout but there definitely the
rays coming through those rainclouds.
Palmi (14:40):
And one other thing you should be aware of.
It matters a lot where you liveon the globe.
Yeah, For example, when welived in Hawaii, I could be
outside for 15 minutes withoutsunscreen and I'm fried and I
(15:00):
was like 10.
Yeah, so I just thought I usedto the Hawaiian tropic sun beat
down on me.
And being a Caucasian, I needthat sunscreen yeah.
Kevin (15:16):
Next one, Kev.
Palmi (15:18):
Is it my turn?
Yep Bladder cancer.
Kevin (15:24):
So this is more common in older adults.
Palmi (15:27):
Okay, so this is more common in older adults.
Okay, I think that goes withoutsaying, because just about
everything affecting yourbladder happens to you later in
life all those toxins,collection of all those toxins
forever and ever could be yeahnon-hot, all those waste
products, your battery, yourbody is get trying to get rid of
(15:49):
rid of yeah, kind of makessense go out through cesspit
pits?
Kevin (15:55):
yeah, non-hopkins.
Lymphoma, a cancer of the lymph, uh, lymph, the lymphatic
system, again, all those toxinstoxins that's where they're
stored in your body.
Makes sense.
Palmi (16:12):
And the next one is kidney cancer, which is
basically the filter it catchesthose toxins separates it from
your blood or lymphatic systemand directs it into your urinary
system.
Kevin (16:31):
Right, I can never say that word.
Andromedial cancer affects thelining of the uterus, which is
what I had.
Palmi (16:44):
And leukemia, which is a cancer of the blood as opposed
to lymphoma.
It's in your blood, not yourlymphatic system, and that's the
part that, unfortunately, Idon't know about nowadays.
(17:05):
But for the longest period oftime, insurance companies would
not cover it because thetreatment for it was something
they deemed experimental.
Even though it was the onlytreatment for it, ie the bone
(17:26):
marrow transplant and had beenaround for 10, 15 years
successfully, they wouldn'tcover the bone marrow transplant
Again.
I'm not sure why, but perhapssome of our listeners may have
(17:48):
some more updated info on that,but there's such a pain, like it
used to be here, that I justhappened to grow up with.
Kevin (18:03):
Yeah, I think they do now .
So each type has a differentrisk factors, symptoms and
treatment options.
The survival rate are differentfor each kind of cancer and
vary differently depending onthe stage, diagnosis, the
treatment options and overallhealth of the patient.
Here are some five-yearrelative survival rates for
(18:26):
localized cancers, meaning thecancers that are not spread
beyond its original site andbefore we get into that, pommy.
Palmi (18:36):
Let's talk about cancer markers.
I think that was brought upduring the interview.
Basically, if you have cancercells, your blood is going to
show the white blood cells,basically cancer markers, and
(19:01):
they can scan your blood.
Again, this is nowadays I don'tthink this was like way back
when we were first learningabout cancer but they basically
do a sample of your blood andthey can tell whether or not you
have cancer markers, ie cancersomewhere Perhaps, or they're
(19:27):
not looking at.
I've had a couple blood testsand the technician that reads
out your blood tests will testalways for cancer markers and
then if there are cancer markersin your blood, your physician
(19:49):
will bring that to yourattention and perhaps suggest
further testing to identifywhere and what type okay
sorry to interrupt, but that's,and because I interrupted, let
me throw this out there.
Okay, bobby was talking aboutthe percentages in survival
(20:17):
rates.
Again, I don't think this isstrictly modern numbers.
I think this is over a periodof time, which may be, if you
want to look at them, from yearto year I've heard they're
decreasing.
(20:38):
The first one is esophagealcancer.
Again, remember, ourpredecessors smoked a lot.
They only smoked, but chewedtobacco.
They had beefly tobacco, whichcan be a leading cause of cancer
(21:02):
.
And we'll, of course, havingtobacco products, be it smoking
or chewing or dipping, whateveraffects your, basically your
digestive system and perhapsproduces some sort of cancer in
(21:24):
that area or your respiratorysystem.
Kevin (21:28):
And that's at 48.8%.
Correct Pancreatic cancer,that's at 44.3%.
Palmi (21:41):
Okay.
I want to also point out that'sbasically pancreatic system.
That's a lot to do with yourrenal system, so it might be why
those are pretty high, though,I think.
Yeah, I would like to thinkthey're getting higher, but I'm
(22:06):
not going to speculate on that.
Kevin (22:08):
Well, this is just if it hasn't spread and it's based on
a five-year relative rating.
Palmi (22:13):
Right.
Kevin (22:15):
Next one is liver cancer.
At 37.3.
Palmi (22:22):
Which sounds really low, but anytime you have cancer
cells in your liver.
You can count on yourcirculatory system, which is
filtered by your liver.
I think it spreads fast theretoo, yeah it gets into your
blood system, it is carried todifferent parts of your body.
(22:46):
That may be why that's a bitlower.
The next one is brain cancer36%.
And that, I'm guessing, islower, because basically your
brain controls every organ inyour body.
Kevin (23:07):
Yeah, these rates tend to be higher for For cancers
detective early and treatedefficiently.
So cancer survival rates dependon several factors, including
the cancer type, the stage theearlier the stages found, the
(23:27):
higher rating and the lessadvanced the cancer.
Also, the treatment options.
What options are available toyou um the age or overall health
?
Your mom was lucky.
She is 84 82, but she's inreally she was in really good
(23:49):
health you know very active,very active for age, genetics
and biological factors.
Lifestyles meaning diet,exercise, whether you smoke or
alcohol consumption, healthcareaccess.
Palmi (24:05):
Also including the lifestyles is basically
remaining active even thoughyou're stuck in some places in
your wheelchair, or perhapsusing a walker or other mobility
aid.
For most types, there isexercises that have been adapted
(24:34):
to a seated position.
That's for those of us thatcould not stand to do
calisthenics without causing allkinds of chaos in our body and
those of us that are showing ourage to speak and just can't get
(25:02):
up and walk around the way theyused to.
Sorry, dear friend but, I,thought that was worth noting.
Kevin (25:16):
It also depends on the tumor characteristics the size,
the growth rate, the moleculemakeup of the tumor.
It all depends on that.
I mean, each cancer is different.
That's what your mom kind ofstressed in the interview, that
how they take each personindividually and make a plan
specific to them based on theirown cancer, how they go in and
(25:38):
take a blood test every timethat she comes in and then they
decide you know exactly howthey're going to treat it at
that treatment date.
You know she doesn't have there.
She's given a plan but it isexecuted based on how she's
doing that day and based all theway down to whether she has
(26:00):
family coming in or how she'sfeeling or you know.
So it's very personalized tohow she, um, how the person is
actually doing.
So there's some there's beenexciting advancements in cancer
treatments that have improvedthe survival ratings,
specifically for breast cancer.
(26:23):
The mortality rate has declinedand that's because the study
found that the breast cancerdeaths among women aged 20 to 24
significantly dropped between2010 and 2020, and, with Mark,
(26:43):
declined after 2016,.
And it's because of all theadvancements they've done
specifically for breast cancer.
There's a lot of research outthere right now for breast
cancer.
Palmi (26:55):
Yeah, one thing I want to interject before I read the
next one is that, in general,okay, I know what to do for a
rare disease, but I don't knowhow to do this for a non-rare
(27:15):
disease, For example, cancer isthat we're talking?
In my case, it's a very raredisease.
They have their own databases.
You can sign up for clinicalstudies.
During the research for thisproject, One of the things
(27:39):
that's very important for cancerresearchers is that they have
patients that are continuing tosign up for clinical studies.
Now, in my case, a lot of theseare just filling out a survey
or talking to a clinician at acertain university.
(28:01):
Some of them actually have yougo to that university that's
conducting the study, All thatstuff.
It's very upfront and clear.
I don't know how you go aboutit.
I don't know how you go about it.
I suggest you check and docancer-related support groups et
(28:23):
cetera.
Kevin (28:24):
Yeah, makes sense.
There's a lot of them out there, A lot of local stuff too.
So we're at the generic Genetictools for pancreatic cancer.
Palmi (28:37):
Yeah, okay again.
Researchers in Japan havedeveloped a predictive model
that combines tumor markerreadings.
Those are the markers I talkedabout earlier In the blood, yeah
, in your blood With geneticinformation to better determine
(29:04):
if you have genetic factors thatcontribute to that sort of
cancer.
Kevin (29:10):
No, to determine which patients would benefit from
surgery.
Right from surgery.
Palmi (29:16):
Right.
That's because, as with cancersbasically, as Palmby talked
about earlier the treatmentoptions often involve surgery,
(29:36):
and surgeons, as a general rule,err on the side of caution.
If you have something likepancreatic cancer, you'd much
rather remove more of yourpancreas as to be sure that
they're getting all the cancercells.
You can't live without apancreas, but depending on how
(30:02):
much it basically is going toaffect how your lifestyle is
affected by that surgery Right.
Kevin (30:15):
Advancements in lung cancer treatments have targeted
therapies and autoimmunes withsignificant improved survival
ratings for non-small cell lungcancer, and with new antibody
drugs in conjunction with, hasshowed promising results okay
(30:35):
when you hear this one.
Palmi (30:37):
It's called CAR-T cell therapy.
It's innovative.
I hate when they use words tosay new or experimental or
innovative, because that justmeans to me you're probably
going to have problems withinsurance covering it.
(30:59):
But again, people who have hadexperience dealing with some of
these therapies be sure you giveus a lowdown on how it works
nowadays, because that mightjust be something that's
(31:47):
ingrained to be, with havingproblems with bone marrow
transplants and such cancercells leading to a higher
emission rate for certain typesof lymphoma and leukemia.
These breakthroughs are helpingpatients live longer and
improving their quality of life.
Kevin (31:54):
So now that we've scared the living crap out of everybody
, To put it mildly yes, so whatdo we do to try to keep cancer
away?
So these are some suggestionsthat this website had to try to
say keep cancer at bay.
There's nothing you can dooutright, because there's a lot
(32:16):
of there's a lot ofpseudoscience that goes around.
Well, there's a lot ofenvironmental issues that we
can't control, that are notwithin our.
Palmi (32:27):
Well, not only that, if you remember, don't go back for
certain issues like does fastfood contribute to cancer?
Kevin (32:40):
Yeah Well, there's certain things we do know that
contribute to cancer, likesmoking.
Don't smoke.
Don't chew, don't what is theother stuff Chews?
Palmi (32:51):
Again your diet processed foods.
Kevin (32:54):
Yeah, eat a healthy diet.
Focus on fruits, vegetables,whole grains, lean proteins,
while eliminating processedfoods and red meats.
Stay physically active Aregular exercise program to
maintain healthy weights andlower the risk of several types
of cancer.
Protect yourself from the sun.
Use sunscreen.
(33:15):
Wear protective clothing.
Avoid excessive sun exposure toreduce the risk of skin cancer.
Limit your alcohol consumption.
Excess alcohol intake increasesthe risk of cancers such as
breast, liver, colon.
Get vaccinations.
Vaccinations for HPV andhepatitis B can prevent cancers
(33:39):
caused by viruses.
Regular screenings earlydetection through screenings
like mammograms, colonoscopies,pap tests can catch cancer in
its earliest stages.
Manage stress and sleep well.
Chronic stress and poor sleepcan weaken the immune system and
make the body more vulnerable.
These are just things thatyou're supposed to do normally,
(34:02):
nothing in excess.
I think we've heard these samethings for every part of staying
healthy.
Palmi (34:09):
And basically a lot of that can be augmented by
implementing regular health care, which is it's a issue in the
United States.
Other countries that have amore socialized medicine program
(34:33):
do not get affected by it.
The US people tend to seekmedical care only when they know
something is wrong well, itdepends on your personality that
depends on a lot on yourpersonality.
Some are seeking a doctor everytime you turn around, you have
(34:56):
two doctors yeah, and medicalcare itself, for example, it's
usually a lot easier in urbanareas to swing by and have a
checkup at your doctor's place.
Kevin (35:12):
I know Kevin doesn't tend to do it because it's a pain in
the butt to get loaded up inthe car In rural areas.
yeah, it's a pain in the butt toget loaded up in the car and
the ruler is yeah, it's not so,or I mean, if you're in the city
and you don't havetransportation, that would be a
pain, so, or you know otherissues like it.
When it rains, it's hard to getin and out of vehicles and
(35:32):
stuff like that, so, but it'sjust always better to know to
find something early than towait and have it get too big to
be out of your hands and beworse, have the prognosis be
worse?
Well, I think we have scaredeverybody to death.
We've done our job.
Palmi (35:53):
Well, let us know in your comments and fan mail folks, Do
we scare you sufficiently?
Kevin (36:02):
But, when life gives you lemons.
What do we say?
Make lemonade, that's right.
Palmi (36:08):
Which is bad for you if you're diabetic.
Use monk fruit yeah yeah, mostof the uh uh.
Okay, my experience withartificial sweeteners is kind of
prejudiced among fruits.
Kevin (36:28):
Been around for what thousands of years?
Yeah, it's a natural sweetener,it's natural.
Palmi (36:36):
It's like stevia in that it's natural.
It's not gonna increase yourchances of brain cancer any type
of cancer.
It's.
You know, like I said, cake.
We had basically in the Westernworld artificial sweeteners
(36:58):
since Roma times.
Does anyone know what theartificial sweetener was that
Romans used?
Do you know that?
Kevin (37:08):
I have no idea lead really, saccharin is a lot
better than lead that's why,when you talk, about lead.
That's why you know when youtalk about like a lead paint
that's why kids eat it, becauseit tastes a little bit sweet.
Oh really, I didn't know that.
Palmi (37:28):
I'm sure there's a lot of other flavors that are going on
, but they just hit that sweetnote and say okay this is
something I should eat.
Kevin (37:39):
No wonder they continue eating it.
Huh yeah, I guess.
Palmi (37:43):
Yeah, again, we're not talking about kids that chew on
your holes.
We're talking about kids thateat old, flaking pink chips.
Does that make sense?
Yep chips.
Kevin (37:56):
Does that make sense?
Palmi (37:57):
Yep, I have yet to see a kid choose way through a wall.
Is that something you'refamiliar with?
Kevin (38:09):
Never, never heard that.
Palmi (38:12):
Okay, well, until next time.
I'll see you later, folks.
Kevin (38:17):
Bye now.
Palmi (38:18):
Until next episode, take those lemons and make your own
lemonade.
Soundstripe.
Palmi (00:02):
Welcome to our podcast.
When life gives you lemons, I'mKevin and I'm Palmi.
Kevin (00:10):
We consider ourselves disability advocates and intend
to spotlight some disabilityissues and things we find
interesting that we frequentlyencounter when we're out and
about.
Also some history on disabilitythat we find interesting.
Palmi (00:26):
Welcome back everybody.
This is Kevin.
Welcome Palmi.
Kevin (00:32):
Hey Kevin.
Palmi (00:33):
And today we're just basically talking about the
interview and going a little bitmore deeper about cancer and
cancer treatment, correct?
Kevin (00:48):
Yeah, that's what we're doing.
Okay, we had a nice visit withRuth and Byrl.
Both she's looking so muchbetter than when we were there
last time.
Yeah, I think she's feelingbetter.
Yeah, she said she was.
Palmi (01:04):
One thing that she brought out during the interview
is that she has a team ofoncologists and oncology-related
specialists that talk to herprimary care physician and
decide what course of treatmentis better for her.
(01:27):
And once her primary carephysician is very good at
explaining things the way sheunderstands so the doctors can
all talk, doctors speak.
(01:47):
Then he'll kind of break itdown for her and explain what's
going on, and she reallyappreciates that sort of contact
with her medical team.
Kevin (01:57):
Yeah, she really trusts her team.
Palmi (02:00):
She really likes her primary care physician, who
she's seen for a number of years.
She has not had a chance tospend years and years meeting
her oncology team.
Kevin (02:16):
In fact I think this is her second one.
She had one and he moved awayor retired, and then the new one
came on and he took it overafter this one left.
But she's actually very hasreally adapted to the new one
also.
Palmi (02:35):
You know, one of the things she mentioned is that all
her oncology team was basicallytreated.
It consists of people who areeither at Vanderbilt, Vanderbilt
yeah.
Vanderbilt University.
Kevin (02:55):
They just put a new Vanderbilt site in at Cookville
Right .
Palmi (03:11):
The entire staff at our oncology department is either
trained by vanderbilt or fallsat a vanderbilt doctorology?
Yeah, of the way they do things, the way the charts, etc.
Kevin (03:18):
Yeah, they're right on.
I've gone to, I think, two uhtreatments with her and they're
right on it.
I've gone to, I think, twotreatments with her and they're
right on it.
You know they are veryattentive, they know her, you
know you feel welcome when youwalk in.
You know she's had a fewincidents where strange things
have happened and she's calledand you know right away they
(03:39):
were right on it and tookimmediate care to her, for her.
So I think that's amazing.
I do too for those of us betterwhen you're four hours away and
you can't get there as quicklyas you'd like to be.
Palmi (03:55):
You know, you know I graduated high school in 1978,
basically people who got cancerback in that days.
Kevin (04:06):
Didn't survive.
Palmi (04:07):
Were usually just automatically assumed that was a
death sentence.
Kevin (04:13):
Yeah yeah.
She has a friend who, as shementioned in her interview, I
think has been doing this for, Ithink, 10 years.
Palmi (04:23):
Yeah.
Kevin (04:24):
I mean it's a pain in the butt to do, but it's allowed
her to live for an additional 10years.
And she mentioned this immunetherapy, which I had never heard
before, which helps the immunesystem fight the cancer, because
we just mentioned in theprevious interview our episode
that cancer tries to evade theimmune system.
Palmi (04:49):
So it's something that enriches your immune system to
try to fight the cancer Rightwhich is basically the first
step in what you go with forexample, with the COVID vaccine
that was an mRNA-type vaccinewas to identify the cancer
(05:15):
markers and specifically whatthe cancer cells look and act
like.
They can impart thatinformation into the body's
immune system and the cells cando a better job of targeting the
cancer.
Kevin (05:37):
Whereas before it was just well to kill the cancer.
Palmi (05:42):
we've got to basically kill everything until the cancer
is there, no more.
But here they want to kill alittle bit of cancer and stop it
from spreading, and then letthe immune system perhaps get
(06:05):
clued into what's going on andcontinue the fight.
You don't have all thosenoxious toxic chemicals in your
system, you don't have theeffects of radiation in your
body.
You just kind of let it happennaturally, so to speak.
Kevin (06:31):
So, depending on the type of cancer, there's several
kinds of treatments that areavailable, Depending on the type
, the stage and the individual'shealth factors.
The most common approaches,which is surgery, to remove the
cancerous tumor or the affectedtissue.
There's chemotherapy, which isdrugs to kill or slow the growth
of the cancer cells.
(06:52):
There's radiation, whichtargets the cancer cell with
high energy radiation, basicallytrying to kill it.
Immune therapy, which we justtalked about, which helps the
immune system fight the cancer.
There's targeted therapy, whichfocuses specific molecules
involved in the cancer growth.
There's hormone therapy, whichblocks or remove hormones that
(07:17):
fuel certain cancers, like youwere just talking about.
There's stem cell transplantsreplaces damaged bone marrow
with healthy cells.
And then there's hypothermiaand photodynamic therapy.
Which uses heat andlight-activated drugs to destroy
(07:38):
cancer cells.
Sometimes, treatments are oftencombined for the best results,
and cancer comes in many formsand there are several different
kinds of cancers, so let's gothrough a few that are listed.
Palmi (07:58):
Okay, we're going to roll off the list, but the rule of
thumb, the list, but the rule ofthumb.
Any organ in your body can be asource of cancer cells.
Not just organs, blood Okay,blood also is.
(08:24):
Again, we go back to those twotypes we talked about last time.
Leukemia is basically cancer ofthe blood and lymphoma is
basically cancer cellstransported by your lymphatic
system.
Kevin (08:39):
Okay, so I'll do one, you do one.
How's that?
Palmi (08:42):
Okay.
Kevin (08:44):
So breast cancer the most commonly diagnosed cancer in
the United States?
I didn't know that.
Palmi (08:51):
I think one of the reasons that makes it so is you
can actually carry a gene thatmakes you more susceptible to
breast cancer.
Kevin (09:02):
Really, is that correct?
Yeah, you can carry the gene, Iknow that, but you think it's
based on our genetics?
Palmi (09:09):
then I think, so.
I don't think it means if youhave that gene you're going to
have breast cancer.
I know you're more susceptible,yeah.
It just means you're morelikely than average to get, say,
breast cancer.
That may or may not be the casewith other types of cancer.
Kevin (09:32):
I just plain don't know the answer to that, and I
believe that's men or women, menor women.
Palmi (09:37):
Breast cancer does affect both sexes.
Yes, both sexes.
Yes, which I did not know untilI started reading stuff during
the research of this process,yep.
The next on the list ischemotherapy.
Kevin (10:00):
No no.
Palmi (10:03):
Liver lung cancer.
Okay, I'm looking at the wrongspot.
Obviously Lung cancer, which isa leading cause of
cancer-related deaths.
One of the reasons that that isway up there is previous
generations have spent so manyyears smoking, which is a
(10:24):
leading contributor to lungcancer Right which we didn't
know for a long time.
Other breathing diseases likeCOPD, epizema and such.
Kevin (10:37):
Yeah, prostate cancer is common among men.
It's often slow growing and itwasn't tested for for a long
time.
Palmi (10:47):
Do women even have prostates?
So that's why she legallyrelated to men Right Okay,
gotcha, okay Okay.
Colorectal cancer.
I imagine that can be eithersex Right.
And a lot of the things you seea lot of TV ads for colonoscopy
(11:15):
.
Kevin (11:15):
That's why you get your colonoscopy.
Palmi (11:16):
And colic or things that allow you to catch colon cancer
before it's obvious, before it'shurting you.
Kevin (11:27):
I think there's a connection between hot dogs,
that type of food, lunch meatsand stuff like that.
Palmi (11:35):
Processed meats.
Kevin (11:37):
Processed foods.
Yeah, so I think there's aconnection there.
They say not to eat that.
For that connection.
Palmi (11:46):
I thought that was just a general health thing.
Kevin (11:51):
But I think it's more related to the colon and the
rectum cancer.
Palmi (11:54):
Which kind of makes sense , I guess?
Kevin (11:59):
Melanoma I lost my place too sorry.
A melanoma a serious form ofskin cancer, and now that we're
having more and more of ourozone depleted, I think that's
becoming more of a serious issue.
Palmi (12:18):
Okay, that's fake news Pommy.
Kevin (12:21):
Whatever?
Palmi (12:22):
Whole ozone layer is closing in, healing itself.
Kevin (12:26):
Okay.
Palmi (12:27):
Well.
Kevin (12:29):
I know three people in my volleyball group that's had
skin cancer removed recently, soI know it's a big thing.
Palmi (12:37):
Yeah, I know that every single time you go to the doctor
and get, for example, a skintag or a mole removed, they
always tested to see if anythingin that that was removed was
cancerous.
In years gone by, when I wasyounger, at least tanning in the
(13:03):
sun was very, very popularRight which led to a lot of
people not using any or verylittle sunscreen.
Kevin (13:14):
When I was a kid, we used to use baby oil and sit out in
the sun, which was like tanningyourself Anti-sunscreen yeah.
It's like tanning a turkeybeaching their based in a turkey
.
Yeah, okay, so the next one isgive me other ultraviolet light
(13:34):
wait, little little did we know,right.
Palmi (13:36):
I think there's still people that do that, so one
comment misconception aboutultraviolet light and sunscreen
is ultraviolet light penetratesclouds, so even if it's a cloudy
day, wear your sunscreen.
Kevin (13:55):
Yeah, I was just telling Kevin, I was planting our garden
and it was completely cloudy,in fact there was almost rain
clouds, and I was out there allday long and I was planting my
plants and I came in and the topof my forehead of course, I
didn't think to wear a hatbecause one.
It was actually cool outsideand I actually had a little bit
(14:19):
of a sunburn on the top of myhead and I never would have
thought to have to put somelotion or sun tanning or sun
protection out from it becauseit was so nice, you know, cool
and no sun.
It was actually a little rainyout but there definitely the
rays coming through those rainclouds.
Palmi (14:40):
And one other thing you should be aware of.
It matters a lot where you liveon the globe.
Yeah, For example, when welived in Hawaii, I could be
outside for 15 minutes withoutsunscreen and I'm fried and I
(15:00):
was like 10.
Yeah, so I just thought I usedto the Hawaiian tropic sun beat
down on me.
And being a Caucasian, I needthat sunscreen yeah.
Kevin (15:16):
Next one, Kev.
Palmi (15:18):
Is it my turn?
Yep Bladder cancer.
Kevin (15:24):
So this is more common in older adults.
Palmi (15:27):
Okay, so this is more common in older adults.
Okay, I think that goes withoutsaying, because just about
everything affecting yourbladder happens to you later in
life all those toxins,collection of all those toxins
forever and ever could be yeahnon-hot, all those waste
products, your battery, yourbody is get trying to get rid of
(15:49):
rid of yeah, kind of makessense go out through cesspit
pits?
Kevin (15:55):
yeah, non-hopkins.
Lymphoma, a cancer of the lymph, uh, lymph, the lymphatic
system, again, all those toxinstoxins that's where they're
stored in your body.
Makes sense.
Palmi (16:12):
And the next one is kidney cancer, which is
basically the filter it catchesthose toxins separates it from
your blood or lymphatic systemand directs it into your urinary
system.
Kevin (16:31):
Right, I can never say that word.
Andromedial cancer affects thelining of the uterus, which is
what I had.
Palmi (16:44):
And leukemia, which is a cancer of the blood as opposed
to lymphoma.
It's in your blood, not yourlymphatic system, and that's the
part that, unfortunately, Idon't know about nowadays.
(17:05):
But for the longest period oftime, insurance companies would
not cover it because thetreatment for it was something
they deemed experimental.
Even though it was the onlytreatment for it, ie the bone
(17:26):
marrow transplant and had beenaround for 10, 15 years
successfully, they wouldn'tcover the bone marrow transplant
Again.
I'm not sure why, but perhapssome of our listeners may have
(17:48):
some more updated info on that,but there's such a pain, like it
used to be here, that I justhappened to grow up with.
Kevin (18:03):
Yeah, I think they do now .
So each type has a differentrisk factors, symptoms and
treatment options.
The survival rate are differentfor each kind of cancer and
vary differently depending onthe stage, diagnosis, the
treatment options and overallhealth of the patient.
Here are some five-yearrelative survival rates for
(18:26):
localized cancers, meaning thecancers that are not spread
beyond its original site andbefore we get into that, pommy.
Palmi (18:36):
Let's talk about cancer markers.
I think that was brought upduring the interview.
Basically, if you have cancercells, your blood is going to
show the white blood cells,basically cancer markers, and
(19:01):
they can scan your blood.
Again, this is nowadays I don'tthink this was like way back
when we were first learningabout cancer but they basically
do a sample of your blood andthey can tell whether or not you
have cancer markers, ie cancersomewhere Perhaps, or they're
(19:27):
not looking at.
I've had a couple blood testsand the technician that reads
out your blood tests will testalways for cancer markers and
then if there are cancer markersin your blood, your physician
(19:49):
will bring that to yourattention and perhaps suggest
further testing to identifywhere and what type okay
sorry to interrupt, but that's,and because I interrupted, let
me throw this out there.
Okay, bobby was talking aboutthe percentages in survival
(20:17):
rates.
Again, I don't think this isstrictly modern numbers.
I think this is over a periodof time, which may be, if you
want to look at them, from yearto year I've heard they're
decreasing.
(20:38):
The first one is esophagealcancer.
Again, remember, ourpredecessors smoked a lot.
They only smoked, but chewedtobacco.
They had beefly tobacco, whichcan be a leading cause of cancer
(21:02):
.
And we'll, of course, havingtobacco products, be it smoking
or chewing or dipping, whateveraffects your, basically your
digestive system and perhapsproduces some sort of cancer in
(21:24):
that area or your respiratorysystem.
Kevin (21:28):
And that's at 48.8%.
Correct Pancreatic cancer,that's at 44.3%.
Palmi (21:41):
Okay.
I want to also point out that'sbasically pancreatic system.
That's a lot to do with yourrenal system, so it might be why
those are pretty high, though,I think.
Yeah, I would like to thinkthey're getting higher, but I'm
(22:06):
not going to speculate on that.
Kevin (22:08):
Well, this is just if it hasn't spread and it's based on
a five-year relative rating.
Palmi (22:13):
Right.
Kevin (22:15):
Next one is liver cancer.
At 37.3.
Palmi (22:22):
Which sounds really low, but anytime you have cancer
cells in your liver.
You can count on yourcirculatory system, which is
filtered by your liver.
I think it spreads fast theretoo, yeah it gets into your
blood system, it is carried todifferent parts of your body.
(22:46):
That may be why that's a bitlower.
The next one is brain cancer36%.
And that, I'm guessing, islower, because basically your
brain controls every organ inyour body.
Kevin (23:07):
Yeah, these rates tend to be higher for For cancers
detective early and treatedefficiently.
So cancer survival rates dependon several factors, including
the cancer type, the stage theearlier the stages found, the
(23:27):
higher rating and the lessadvanced the cancer.
Also, the treatment options.
What options are available toyou um the age or overall health
?
Your mom was lucky.
She is 84 82, but she's inreally she was in really good
(23:49):
health you know very active,very active for age, genetics
and biological factors.
Lifestyles meaning diet,exercise, whether you smoke or
alcohol consumption, healthcareaccess.
Palmi (24:05):
Also including the lifestyles is basically
remaining active even thoughyou're stuck in some places in
your wheelchair, or perhapsusing a walker or other mobility
aid.
For most types, there isexercises that have been adapted
(24:34):
to a seated position.
That's for those of us thatcould not stand to do
calisthenics without causing allkinds of chaos in our body and
those of us that are showing ourage to speak and just can't get
(25:02):
up and walk around the way theyused to.
Sorry, dear friend but, I,thought that was worth noting.
Kevin (25:16):
It also depends on the tumor characteristics the size,
the growth rate, the moleculemakeup of the tumor.
It all depends on that.
I mean, each cancer is different.
That's what your mom kind ofstressed in the interview, that
how they take each personindividually and make a plan
specific to them based on theirown cancer, how they go in and
(25:38):
take a blood test every timethat she comes in and then they
decide you know exactly howthey're going to treat it at
that treatment date.
You know she doesn't have there.
She's given a plan but it isexecuted based on how she's
doing that day and based all theway down to whether she has
(26:00):
family coming in or how she'sfeeling or you know.
So it's very personalized tohow she, um, how the person is
actually doing.
So there's some there's beenexciting advancements in cancer
treatments that have improvedthe survival ratings,
specifically for breast cancer.
(26:23):
The mortality rate has declinedand that's because the study
found that the breast cancerdeaths among women aged 20 to 24
significantly dropped between2010 and 2020, and, with Mark,
(26:43):
declined after 2016,.
And it's because of all theadvancements they've done
specifically for breast cancer.
There's a lot of research outthere right now for breast
cancer.
Palmi (26:55):
Yeah, one thing I want to interject before I read the
next one is that, in general,okay, I know what to do for a
rare disease, but I don't knowhow to do this for a non-rare
(27:15):
disease, For example, cancer isthat we're talking?
In my case, it's a very raredisease.
They have their own databases.
You can sign up for clinicalstudies.
During the research for thisproject, One of the things
(27:39):
that's very important for cancerresearchers is that they have
patients that are continuing tosign up for clinical studies.
Now, in my case, a lot of theseare just filling out a survey
or talking to a clinician at acertain university.
(28:01):
Some of them actually have yougo to that university that's
conducting the study, All thatstuff.
It's very upfront and clear.
I don't know how you go aboutit.
I don't know how you go about it.
I suggest you check and docancer-related support groups et
(28:23):
cetera.
Kevin (28:24):
Yeah, makes sense.
There's a lot of them out there, A lot of local stuff too.
So we're at the generic Genetictools for pancreatic cancer.
Palmi (28:37):
Yeah, okay again.
Researchers in Japan havedeveloped a predictive model
that combines tumor markerreadings.
Those are the markers I talkedabout earlier In the blood, yeah
, in your blood With geneticinformation to better determine
(29:04):
if you have genetic factors thatcontribute to that sort of
cancer.
Kevin (29:10):
No, to determine which patients would benefit from
surgery.
Right from surgery.
Palmi (29:16):
Right.
That's because, as with cancersbasically, as Palmby talked
about earlier the treatmentoptions often involve surgery,
(29:36):
and surgeons, as a general rule,err on the side of caution.
If you have something likepancreatic cancer, you'd much
rather remove more of yourpancreas as to be sure that
they're getting all the cancercells.
You can't live without apancreas, but depending on how
(30:02):
much it basically is going toaffect how your lifestyle is
affected by that surgery Right.
Kevin (30:15):
Advancements in lung cancer treatments have targeted
therapies and autoimmunes withsignificant improved survival
ratings for non-small cell lungcancer, and with new antibody
drugs in conjunction with, hasshowed promising results okay
(30:35):
when you hear this one.
Palmi (30:37):
It's called CAR-T cell therapy.
It's innovative.
I hate when they use words tosay new or experimental or
innovative, because that justmeans to me you're probably
going to have problems withinsurance covering it.
(30:59):
But again, people who have hadexperience dealing with some of
these therapies be sure you giveus a lowdown on how it works
nowadays, because that mightjust be something that's
(31:47):
ingrained to be, with havingproblems with bone marrow
transplants and such cancercells leading to a higher
emission rate for certain typesof lymphoma and leukemia.
These breakthroughs are helpingpatients live longer and
improving their quality of life.
Kevin (31:54):
So now that we've scared the living crap out of everybody
, To put it mildly yes, so whatdo we do to try to keep cancer
away?
So these are some suggestionsthat this website had to try to
say keep cancer at bay.
There's nothing you can dooutright, because there's a lot
(32:16):
of there's a lot ofpseudoscience that goes around.
Well, there's a lot ofenvironmental issues that we
can't control, that are notwithin our.
Palmi (32:27):
Well, not only that, if you remember, don't go back for
certain issues like does fastfood contribute to cancer?
Kevin (32:40):
Yeah Well, there's certain things we do know that
contribute to cancer, likesmoking.
Don't smoke.
Don't chew, don't what is theother stuff Chews?
Palmi (32:51):
Again your diet processed foods.
Kevin (32:54):
Yeah, eat a healthy diet.
Focus on fruits, vegetables,whole grains, lean proteins,
while eliminating processedfoods and red meats.
Stay physically active Aregular exercise program to
maintain healthy weights andlower the risk of several types
of cancer.
Protect yourself from the sun.
Use sunscreen.
(33:15):
Wear protective clothing.
Avoid excessive sun exposure toreduce the risk of skin cancer.
Limit your alcohol consumption.
Excess alcohol intake increasesthe risk of cancers such as
breast, liver, colon.
Get vaccinations.
Vaccinations for HPV andhepatitis B can prevent cancers
(33:39):
caused by viruses.
Regular screenings earlydetection through screenings
like mammograms, colonoscopies,pap tests can catch cancer in
its earliest stages.
Manage stress and sleep well.
Chronic stress and poor sleepcan weaken the immune system and
make the body more vulnerable.
These are just things thatyou're supposed to do normally,
(34:02):
nothing in excess.
I think we've heard these samethings for every part of staying
healthy.
Palmi (34:09):
And basically a lot of that can be augmented by
implementing regular health care, which is it's a issue in the
United States.
Other countries that have amore socialized medicine program
(34:33):
do not get affected by it.
The US people tend to seekmedical care only when they know
something is wrong well, itdepends on your personality that
depends on a lot on yourpersonality.
Some are seeking a doctor everytime you turn around, you have
(34:56):
two doctors yeah, and medicalcare itself, for example, it's
usually a lot easier in urbanareas to swing by and have a
checkup at your doctor's place.
Kevin (35:12):
I know Kevin doesn't tend to do it because it's a pain in
the butt to get loaded up inthe car In rural areas.
yeah, it's a pain in the butt toget loaded up in the car and
the ruler is yeah, it's not so,or I mean, if you're in the city
and you don't havetransportation, that would be a
pain, so, or you know otherissues like it.
When it rains, it's hard to getin and out of vehicles and
(35:32):
stuff like that, so, but it'sjust always better to know to
find something early than towait and have it get too big to
be out of your hands and beworse, have the prognosis be
worse?
Well, I think we have scaredeverybody to death.
We've done our job.
Palmi (35:53):
Well, let us know in your comments and fan mail folks, Do
we scare you sufficiently?
Kevin (36:02):
But, when life gives you lemons.
What do we say?
Make lemonade, that's right.
Palmi (36:08):
Which is bad for you if you're diabetic.
Use monk fruit yeah yeah, mostof the uh uh.
Okay, my experience withartificial sweeteners is kind of
prejudiced among fruits.
Kevin (36:28):
Been around for what thousands of years?
Yeah, it's a natural sweetener,it's natural.
Palmi (36:36):
It's like stevia in that it's natural.
It's not gonna increase yourchances of brain cancer any type
of cancer.
It's.
You know, like I said, cake.
We had basically in the Westernworld artificial sweeteners
(36:58):
since Roma times.
Does anyone know what theartificial sweetener was that
Romans used?
Do you know that?
Kevin (37:08):
I have no idea lead really, saccharin is a lot
better than lead that's why,when you talk, about lead.
That's why you know when youtalk about like a lead paint
that's why kids eat it, becauseit tastes a little bit sweet.
Oh really, I didn't know that.
Palmi (37:28):
I'm sure there's a lot of other flavors that are going on
, but they just hit that sweetnote and say okay this is
something I should eat.
Kevin (37:39):
No wonder they continue eating it.
Huh yeah, I guess.
Palmi (37:43):
Yeah, again, we're not talking about kids that chew on
your holes.
We're talking about kids thateat old, flaking pink chips.
Does that make sense?
Yep chips.
Kevin (37:56):
Does that make sense?
Palmi (37:57):
Yep, I have yet to see a kid choose way through a wall.
Is that something you'refamiliar with?
Kevin (38:09):
Never, never heard that.
Palmi (38:12):
Okay, well, until next time.
I'll see you later, folks.
Kevin (38:17):
Bye now.
Palmi (38:18):
Until next episode, take those lemons and make your own
lemonade.
Host
Jetheswaran Gunasekaran
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New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!