January 15, 2025 • 36 mins
What if the media landscapes we consume daily held the power to redefine societal norms about disabilities? We're your hosts, Kevin and Pommy Henry, and we're here to explore how the Barbie movie sparked a renewed dialogue on the representation of disabled individuals in movies and TV. From the renewed interest in previously discontinued disabled Barbie characters to the historic portrayals of characters like Ironside and Star Trek's Captain Pike, we examine how the landscape is gradually evolving. We discuss the term ableism, its implications on employment and public spaces, and how the concept of "unemployable" affects people with disabilities. Our conversation also touches on how the COVID-19 pandemic has opened new telecommuting doors, potentially creating more opportunities for those with disabilities.
In another enlightening segment, we celebrate the resilience and achievements of influential figures in entertainment who are living with disabilities. Listen as we highlight the groundbreaking contributions of Marlee Matlin, RJ Mitte, Chris Burke, and Christopher Reeve, who have significantly reshaped how disability is represented on screen. NBC's role in increasing the visibility of disabled characters is part of our discussion, and we invite you to ponder the nuances of evolving language—should we favor "disabled" over "handicapped"? Lastly, we reflect on the cultural impact of Barbie dolls reintroduced through the lens of the recent movie, encouraging a broader narrative of inclusivity and understanding. Join us as we advocate for a media environment that embraces diversity and empowers all individuals.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to our podcast with Life Kishilums.
I'm Kevin Henry and my partnerin crime, and life is Pommy
Henry.
I have a rare disease known asspinal cell viral ataxia, which
is a neuromuscular disease.
(00:20):
This has left me with mobilitychallenges, with a speech
impediment and noise-inducedanxiety.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Living with these disabilities for over 20 years,
we have developed helpful hintsand life lessons that we would
like to share with you.
That has made our life easierand possible.
In some cases.
We consider ourselvesdisability advocates and intend
to educate ourselves and youabout other disabilities and
(00:55):
issues, and also talk aboutthings we find interesting and
frequently encounter when we'reout and about.
Welcome to when Life Gives youLemons.
I'm Palmy.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
And I'm Kevin.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
And this is our fourth episode.
We've learned a lot so far,haven't we?
Speaker 1 (01:13):
We sure have.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
So keep sending in those likes and any suggestions
of episodes in the near future.
This episode is a littledifferent than what we've been
doing.
Well, not really.
It came about a littledifferently.
We happened to be going to theBarbie movie, and if you've been
(01:37):
to the Barbie movie you'll knowthat they brought back some of
the disabled characters thatthey had in the past, that I
didn't even know some of themexisted.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
They were actually some of their least popular
models that were discontinued.
Yeah, Do you recall from yourchildhood?
Barbie had lots of jobs.
They went out of their way totry different cultural things.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
To include, be inclusive to all.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
And some just didn't sell well.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Right, yeah, but that brought us to the subject of
how often now we're seeing thatthey're including handicapped
people in the movies, in the TVshows.
It's a lot more.
If I think back to when I was akid, I'm not sure I ever saw
(02:32):
anyone other than maybe that guythat was in the wheelchair.
That was a lawyer.
What was that guy?
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Ironside.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Ironside.
Yeah, so that was about theonly person I can remember
growing up that the handicappedsociety was included in that
type of stuff.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
I remember one other one, but you have to be a
Trekkie.
Captain Pike was in afuturistic wheelchair.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Well, more than that, because I think half of his
body was missing.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Right it's a weird thing.
He was paralyzed andunresponsive, but he could think
.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
They transferred his brain.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
I think is what I don't recall exactly, but I knew
he had brain activity.
I think it served as a platformto like speak what he was
thinking.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Yeah, yeah, now that you said that, I remember that
my dad was a huge Trekkie fanand as a kid that was one of the
things we sat down and watchedtogether was Star Trek.
So anyways, getting on to ourepisode, it's don't even know
how to name, I guess, just howhandicapped and disabled people
(03:55):
have been represented throughouthistory.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
And currently where we're at basically Currently, I
think, chat-gpt in a future,used exclusively for the
research on this episode.
They went with the 25% figure.
I've been hearing that a lotlately, but I think that
(04:40):
includes everybody that injuredtheir arm or leg on the job, or
what you call or term atemporary disability.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
And there's other disabilities that you wouldn't
necessarily think is adisability, but the whole term
is that you can't do your normaltype of activity because of it.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Again, we're not going to shy away from that
discussion, but we do cover itin the next episode.
Right, exactly, we're not goingto really go in depth into that
right now into that right now.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
So I do have a statistic about less than 5% of
the disability roles on TV areplayed by disability actors,
while in 2015, it was 2.7%.
Of all the speaking charactersin films was depicted with a
disability.
So that's basically what we'retalking about now, and so we
have to kind of acknowledge thatmost everybody has biases.
(05:56):
You may not realize you have,but everybody does.
And specifically for thehandicapped.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Discrimination for thecapped is very high and
unrecognized.
I think too, yeah, presentlythe word for it is ableism.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Right, that was a new one for me.
I'd never heard that before.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
I've read it a lot but I didn't know for sure that
it was a thing.
I don't do a whole lot ofsocial media, but it's coming up
in news articles every now andthen it's coming up a lot on
social media.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
So kind of like what we talked about before.
Handicapped people facediscrimination in being employed
, having barriers to being hired, promoted or reasonable
accommodations.
Kevin, you can talk to that.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Yeah, there is a term that is used in insurance it's
unemployable.
And what that means is, forexample, with me, because of the
disease I have, if I were to gointo a place of work and hurt
(07:14):
myself, the employer is going tohave to pay a decrease in
liability on his property.
And if they offer healthbenefits through employment, I
(07:38):
am going to affect the grouprate that they've been offered
through insurance companies.
So basically they're going tohave to pay an increased premium
.
Basically they're going to haveto pay an increased premium and
if it's a large company with alot of employees, that might be
a drop in the bucket.
If it's a smaller employer withfewer employees, it might be a
(08:00):
bigger percentage of the group,be a bigger percentage of the
group.
But the point is that theinsurance company turns this as
unemployable because basicallyemployers don't want to give you
a job.
And pre-COVID there were a lotof on-site jobs and
(08:23):
telecommuting was something thatwas done by people that had
been with that company for awhile.
But since COVID I think a lotmore people are allowed to
telecommute, work off-site.
If you will work offside, ifyou will, that sort of work I
(08:45):
think would affect theirinsurance as much for people
like me.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
And we just talked about public accommodation not
being able to actually go towherever it is that you're hired
or just wherever you wanted togo.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
We ran into that several times we had a
conversation a fair while agoabout when the Twin Towers, the
airplanes hit the Twin Towersand disabled people hit the, of
(09:26):
course don't have the option ofusing the stairs, even though
everybody tells you don't usethe elevators in case of
emergency.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
It's like well that's the only way.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
I can go up or down, and I think Pommy was saying
yeah, people are carryinghandicapped people down the
stairs to evacuate.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Yeah, a lot of firefighters were killed because
of that specifically, they weretrying to get people that were
not able to, for some reason,get down the stairs, so I did
hear that that was a major issuewhen that was all happening and
then also state and localgovernment services, where they
(10:14):
may be denied equal access tothe program's benefits and
opportunities.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
For example, the Medicaid issue is very weighing
on somebody who is permanentlydisabled mind because under
Medicaid you have to make belowa certain amount of money.
I fall into the category of Imake too much money so I don't
(10:43):
qualify for Medicaid, but youhave to be careful not to earn
more than Medicaid allows.
Medicare gives you, I think, asix-month window to try out
employment, see that it's goingto work out and see it's going
(11:05):
to make your bills.
And I think everybody, all theagencies that give you benefits,
need to do this.
Otherwise you're just going ona hope and a prayer and saying
cancel my benefits and I'll makeenough doing this job.
(11:25):
For all you know, you won'thave that job very long.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Which has caused the additional discrimination
because of poverty.
A lot of handicapped people arein the poverty levels and again
that itself leads into many,many, many problems Lack of
education, lack of health careand violence and abuse.
(11:51):
You're more vulnerable tophysical and emotional and
financial harm by predators whoare trying to exploit someone's
disability.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
And when PAMI brings up mental abuse, it's not always
the bad guy accosting you onstreet.
It's people constantly doubtingwhether you're faking it or
whatever for your free benefits.
(12:21):
I give up my benefits in aheartbeat to not be disabled.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
And I think a lot of people would do that, true
disabled people would do that.
I think that's a commontrade-off.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
There are a lot of bad actors out there who want to
take advantage of a short-termdisability, like workers'
compensation, or a long-termdisability, like Social Security
disability payments, and theybring out spotlights on
(13:06):
everybody involved in thedisability program.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Right.
These forms of discriminationviolate the human rights of the
handicapped person and preventthem from fully participating in
society.
And so, getting back to wherewe started on this, we noticed
in the movies that there wasmore and more people that were
being represented as either theywere.
(13:31):
In the past, I think they hadbeen played by abled actors.
And we noticed, because it waskind of brought to the surface
with the Barbie thing, thatnowadays we're seeing more and
more people with disabilitiesplaying people in shows, movies,
that are physically disabledand still able to do the job
(13:54):
that they were asked to do.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Which is a good thing .
It's also a bad thing if you'rean actor, because you've heard
of actors being typecast andunless there is a specific role
that needs an actor with adisability which may or may not
(14:19):
be tricolored, defined by hisdiagnosis, yeah, he's not going
to have the choice of roles hehad before.
Take, for example, Michael JFox with Parkinson's.
You used to see him quite a bit.
(14:41):
You don't see him as much now,but you do see him playing
somebody with Parkinson's.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
And I think that's just because it's a progressive
disease and at a certain pointyou're just not able to do the
job.
I think I just read.
I watched his Netflix, or wasit Apple, I can't remember.
He has a special on there and Iwatched it and you know he's
progressive, just like Kevin.
Kevin's is progressive and 10years agoday basis is a lot more
(15:13):
actively portraying a disabledperson's life.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
No, don't get me wrong, some actors do it quite
well, but that is a job to do itquite well.
In the past, the only disabledpeople I would see were actually
actors who were fully capable,playing somebody who had a
(16:15):
temporary disability Right aproblem with, because that's how
temporary disabilities work.
But for somebody to bepermanently mobility challenged,
you really, kind of are doingyour service by hiring a actor
(16:46):
who is fully capable and notlimited by disability to play
that role, because disabledpeople have a tendency to
uncover the flaw in the planOkay, this is supposed to be
(17:09):
disabled, but I have to go upsteps which is not handicapped
accessible.
So you know, that sort of thingcomes to light when you're
hiring a true mobility challengeperson to play that role.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Well, they're actually representing the whole
character and not just the partthat's disabled either, because
there's a lot of other thingsthat people bring to a role than
just being disabled.
I watched a bunch of YouTubeepisodes, I guess, while I was
preparing for this and there wasa real question of you know
(17:56):
whether they were questioningwhether plots of this had that
specifically had disability init were accurately.
You know, typically a movie willhave, you know, represent a
disabled person and they're on ajourney to get somewhere or
they're, you know, they're thehero of the story or the
(18:21):
challenges that they are able tosurpass because of disability.
There was a real and I can'tsay for myself because I'm not
disabled, but it didn'taccurately portray a lot of the
life of a handicapped person.
You know, yes, there ischallenges and you know you're
(18:42):
looking for the bright light atthe end and a lot of times there
is no bright light at the end.
You just learn to live withwhat disability you have and
that is what is just life, likeyou know, it's next super, super
character.
Or, you know, you're not aSuperman at the end.
So there was a lot ofcontroversy whether, even when
(19:06):
we have stories like this, ifthey truly represent the
disabled life.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
A good example of that is, I believe, dr Strange.
When he had a car accident.
He was no longer able to usehis hands properly and he was a
neurosurgeon, so he just kind ofwent off the deep end and said
(19:37):
I can't make a living doing whatI'm used to doing.
Instead of coping with it anddoing something else, he went on
a pilgrimage, basically learneda lot of mystical things that
(19:58):
allowed him to use his handsnormally.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Right, that was one of the criticisms is that magic
was.
You were thought to believethat these handicapped people
were able to achieve that, thesethings even in real life.
Not just you know superhero,but because it was magical or it
has superpowers or you know.
They always say that blindpeople have their other senses,
(20:23):
become enlightened and stufflike that, and that's really not
the case.
It's the fact that they learnedto live with their disability
and other things come to light.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Yeah, there are a lot of disabilities out there that
are quote-unquote uncarableright now, as of you know, 2023.
Right now, as of you know, 2023.
So the hardest part as adisabled person is facing up to
(20:54):
the fact that you're not goingto get better and you have to
make do with what you got.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
And make your life kind of when you have life.
When life gives you lemons, youjust make what you can of it
and you enjoy your life.
Everybody gets one life and ifyou're miserable throughout the
entire part of it, it probablywasn't a very happy life.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
To continue on with that metaphor in my case, life
gave me lemons on of made areally sloppy lemonade.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
But it's a joy to drink.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
According to Bob it is.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Oh, I'm sure your daughter thinks so too, but
you're not fighting it like youwere, you know, in the very
beginning.
It takes some time to adjust toit.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
It takes time to wrap your adjust to it and teach
time to wrap your head around it.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
And depression is always part of it, I think.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
It is.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
But anyways, getting back to it, so there was a lot
of stars with disabilities thathave after we took note of that.
They came to mind.
Like Marlene Matlin, she's deafand she starred in many movies
as the children of the lessergod, west Wing and the Switched,
and she's currently, I think,playing Switched.
(22:14):
At birth, kevin really was biginto Breaking Bad and the actor
that played the son has cerebralpalsy and he RJ Mitty, is that
how you say it?
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Yeah, that's him.
Yeah, yeah, Played WalterWright's son with cerebral palsy
, and he actually had cerebralpalsy.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
And then there was Chris Berkey is an actor who has
Down syndrome.
He plays Corky in the TV showLife Goes On and he also has
appeared on ER and Touched byAngels and the Commish.
Of course, probably the mostfamous is Christopher Reeve, who
became a quadriplegic after ahorse riding accident and he had
(23:03):
previously played Superman infour of the movies.
And he had previously playedSuperman in four of the movies
and was I don't know that heever.
I think he starred in a showabout himself, a special or
something like that.
A documentary, a documentaryabout his life.
Afterwards, unfortunately, hesuccumbed to his injuries.
(23:25):
And then there's other factors,and then thinking of a
different disorder, and he's thehost of the Deal or no Deal and
(23:56):
a judge of Americans Got Talent.
Now you don't necessarily thinkof that as a disability.
It's an unseen disability, Iguess, and those are probably
the most popular or not popular,but largest amount that would
represent the disabled people.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
I think we go on to break down in a future episode
which network has more disabledactors than others and how that
number has been rising forseveral years.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Yeah, and it says NBC leads the broadcasting network
in terms of representing peoplewith disabilities, with 18
characters representing 12% ofthe network's series regulars.
And there are some of these TVshows that cast disabled actors
are actual disabled characters,such as CODA, coda, call the
(24:59):
Midwife, feel the Beat and Gameof Thrones.
3.
Game of Thrones 3?
Speaker 1 (25:07):
I think we should also note that, as I said before
, we use chatGPD to augment oursearch in this episode, and
chatGPD doesn't interact withyou if you use hate speech, and
(25:34):
it informed me that beinglabeled as handicapped was
considered hate speech.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Never heard that before.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
I hadn't either.
So disabled is what Never heard, that before I hadn't either.
So disabled is what ChatGPTrecommended.
We've been going out of our wayto use the word disabled in
(26:08):
this podcast in case that is thecase.
But if there is a issue aboutif handicapped is a derogatory
word or a hateful word,certainly email us and let us
know that, because we justdidn't think anything about it.
We park in handicapped spaces,we apply for handicapped permits
(26:33):
, hotels ask for handicappedrooms.
It just never occurred to me.
That word is offensive.
So if you feel that is the case, give me some feedback.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
We'd like to see what percentage actually have heard
this yeah it was totally new tome.
We're not big media people, sowe're not aware of that.
So if we offended anybody, wewould like to apologize at this
point.
I think that does it for ustoday.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Well, let's talk a little bit about the Barbie
bottles.
That were not big sellers, butthey had mentioned the movie.
During the movie I didn'treally think that much of it.
I thought they just had somestory made up with Barbie to
(27:40):
take that role.
But, as it turns out, duringthe credits they actually would
show the products and why theywere and some of them were
actually pretty common sense butwhy they were less popular than
(28:04):
other dolls.
They were less balled thanother dolls, but handicapped
Barbie was a thing it justdidn't sell as well as other
Barbies did, so they took it offthe market.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
But there was also a pregnant Barbie which you know.
That would be common sense, Ithink.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
That was common sense .
Because they kept Barbie.
They showed the credits.
Came with, like I don't know,five kids.
You would give Val Crowe adress.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
No, that was another character.
That was the babysitting Barbie, I think.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
But they had a theme in the movie that Barbies that
got played with too much gotbroken either in their mind or
their body.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Yeah, that was a strange situation, but that was
not a discontinued bottle.
They didn't have that for real.
I did see that they are now.
It is now a Barbie that you canget.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
I can see that they are now.
It is now a Barbie that you canget.
Yeah, it is now, because youknow I mentioned it does quite
well in sales.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Yeah, anything unusual these days does well.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Yeah, they might actually bring back some of the
lesser models, because they werementioned in the movie, because
of the popularity, yeah.
The movie was actually the mostpopular thus far this year.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Yeah, it was a top-selling movie.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
I went twice, I got some of my money.
It broke all the box officerecords, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Yeah, I think it was not a good year for movies,
though, because of the strikingof the writers and the striking
of the actors' guilt, so I thinksome of that might have had.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
A lot of movies and TV shows are like halfway done
and they're waiting for thestrike to end or resolve itself.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
But now they're in league with the Actors Guild
that is now on strike.
Basically, they're waiting forthat Hollywood strike to be
(30:50):
resolved so they can finishunfinished parts of movies or TV
shows that typically and you'llbe able to tell me more I see
this through your life that youincreased the amount of
television that you watch,movies that you watch because of
your handicap, because of deardisability, and I find it ironic
that they're just getting itthat you know they should
(31:12):
represent that part of thepopulation, the population.
Yeah, I think that's ironicthat they're just now getting it
.
If you're talking 25, even ifthat's a low number of the
disability people that aredisabled, disabled in america or
in the world, that was america,right yes yeah, if you just
(31:35):
consider they're missing a largesection of possible eyes on
their movies or TV shows orwhatever.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Oh, I'm sure there are people that are way more
into this sort of thing and willactively seek out programs that
have disabled people or shyaway from programs where a fully
(32:05):
capable actor is playing adisabled role, but that's based
on the time we live in.
I hear a lot more of that now.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
It seems like in the last century, maybe we have a
lot more opinions.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
Well, the famous quote was you know, before we
had the internet?
people would say yeah a certainpopulation of our you know
percentage of our population isgoing to be ignorant of some
kind of issues because they justdon't or not that well educated
(32:53):
.
Then along came the Internetwith all the information
available.
Everybody wants to educate youand the meme now is like no,
that wasn't it.
It's kind of a joke becauseonce you unleash everybody to
start doing their own research,a trend I'm seeing is people
(33:20):
that label science aspseudoscience and vice versa.
They're doing their ownresearch and listening to people
who do promote pseudosciencebecause it goes along with part
(33:40):
of the research.
They're going with those, orwhat?
Speaker 2 (33:45):
they want the consequence to be.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Exactly and I hope we don't fall into those
(34:10):
categories in this.
But, as I said, I'm going totry to use demonstrate some
biases based on the informationthat was put into the
programming of that.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
Well, it can only spit out what you gave it.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Exactly.
The term that we're used tousing in computer science is
garbage in, garbage out.
If the process going into aprogram is flawed, the
(34:50):
conclusions of the program aregoing to be flawed, or could be
flawed if they get into theflawed areas of the program.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Sounds good, all right, let's end the program
here.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Okay, one thing we should mention is how to get a
hold of us.
You can go to our website atwwwwhenlifegivesyouleveragenet,
and all the information on howyou can get a hold of us is
(35:28):
there.
We're going to start having asocial media presence in the
future, then that about does it.
We'll see you next episode.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Bye now.
We are always looking toimprove the podcast, so if you
want to hear a specific topic,have a differencing opinion,
want to add something to theconversation, drop us an email.
Our contact information islisted on our website.
It'swwwwhenlifegivesyoulemonsnet.
We have recently added acompanion YouTube channel called
(36:05):
Making the Lemonade.
If you enjoy the podcast,continue your enjoyment by
joining us on YouTube.
Welcome to our podcast with Life Kishilums.
I'm Kevin Henry and my partnerin crime, and life is Pommy
Henry.
I have a rare disease known asspinal cell viral ataxia, which
is a neuromuscular disease.
(00:20):
This has left me with mobilitychallenges, with a speech
impediment and noise-inducedanxiety.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Living with these disabilities for over 20 years,
we have developed helpful hintsand life lessons that we would
like to share with you.
That has made our life easierand possible.
In some cases.
We consider ourselvesdisability advocates and intend
to educate ourselves and youabout other disabilities and
(00:55):
issues, and also talk aboutthings we find interesting and
frequently encounter when we'reout and about.
Welcome to when Life Gives youLemons.
I'm Palmy.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
And I'm Kevin.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
And this is our fourth episode.
We've learned a lot so far,haven't we?
Speaker 1 (01:13):
We sure have.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
So keep sending in those likes and any suggestions
of episodes in the near future.
This episode is a littledifferent than what we've been
doing.
Well, not really.
It came about a littledifferently.
We happened to be going to theBarbie movie, and if you've been
(01:37):
to the Barbie movie you'll knowthat they brought back some of
the disabled characters thatthey had in the past, that I
didn't even know some of themexisted.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
They were actually some of their least popular
models that were discontinued.
Yeah, Do you recall from yourchildhood?
Barbie had lots of jobs.
They went out of their way totry different cultural things.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
To include, be inclusive to all.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
And some just didn't sell well.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Right, yeah, but that brought us to the subject of
how often now we're seeing thatthey're including handicapped
people in the movies, in the TVshows.
It's a lot more.
If I think back to when I was akid, I'm not sure I ever saw
(02:32):
anyone other than maybe that guythat was in the wheelchair.
That was a lawyer.
What was that guy?
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Ironside.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Ironside.
Yeah, so that was about theonly person I can remember
growing up that the handicappedsociety was included in that
type of stuff.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
I remember one other one, but you have to be a
Trekkie.
Captain Pike was in afuturistic wheelchair.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Well, more than that, because I think half of his
body was missing.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Right it's a weird thing.
He was paralyzed andunresponsive, but he could think
.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
They transferred his brain.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
I think is what I don't recall exactly, but I knew
he had brain activity.
I think it served as a platformto like speak what he was
thinking.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Yeah, yeah, now that you said that, I remember that
my dad was a huge Trekkie fanand as a kid that was one of the
things we sat down and watchedtogether was Star Trek.
So anyways, getting on to ourepisode, it's don't even know
how to name, I guess, just howhandicapped and disabled people
(03:55):
have been represented throughouthistory.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
And currently where we're at basically Currently, I
think, chat-gpt in a future,used exclusively for the
research on this episode.
They went with the 25% figure.
I've been hearing that a lotlately, but I think that
(04:40):
includes everybody that injuredtheir arm or leg on the job, or
what you call or term atemporary disability.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
And there's other disabilities that you wouldn't
necessarily think is adisability, but the whole term
is that you can't do your normaltype of activity because of it.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Again, we're not going to shy away from that
discussion, but we do cover itin the next episode.
Right, exactly, we're not goingto really go in depth into that
right now into that right now.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
So I do have a statistic about less than 5% of
the disability roles on TV areplayed by disability actors,
while in 2015, it was 2.7%.
Of all the speaking charactersin films was depicted with a
disability.
So that's basically what we'retalking about now, and so we
have to kind of acknowledge thatmost everybody has biases.
(05:56):
You may not realize you have,but everybody does.
And specifically for thehandicapped.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Discrimination for thecapped is very high and
unrecognized.
I think too, yeah, presentlythe word for it is ableism.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Right, that was a new one for me.
I'd never heard that before.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
I've read it a lot but I didn't know for sure that
it was a thing.
I don't do a whole lot ofsocial media, but it's coming up
in news articles every now andthen it's coming up a lot on
social media.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
So kind of like what we talked about before.
Handicapped people facediscrimination in being employed
, having barriers to being hired, promoted or reasonable
accommodations.
Kevin, you can talk to that.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Yeah, there is a term that is used in insurance it's
unemployable.
And what that means is, forexample, with me, because of the
disease I have, if I were to gointo a place of work and hurt
(07:14):
myself, the employer is going tohave to pay a decrease in
liability on his property.
And if they offer healthbenefits through employment, I
(07:38):
am going to affect the grouprate that they've been offered
through insurance companies.
So basically they're going tohave to pay an increased premium
.
Basically they're going to haveto pay an increased premium and
if it's a large company with alot of employees, that might be
a drop in the bucket.
If it's a smaller employer withfewer employees, it might be a
(08:00):
bigger percentage of the group,be a bigger percentage of the
group.
But the point is that theinsurance company turns this as
unemployable because basicallyemployers don't want to give you
a job.
And pre-COVID there were a lotof on-site jobs and
(08:23):
telecommuting was something thatwas done by people that had
been with that company for awhile.
But since COVID I think a lotmore people are allowed to
telecommute, work off-site.
If you will work offside, ifyou will, that sort of work I
(08:45):
think would affect theirinsurance as much for people
like me.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
And we just talked about public accommodation not
being able to actually go towherever it is that you're hired
or just wherever you wanted togo.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
We ran into that several times we had a
conversation a fair while agoabout when the Twin Towers, the
airplanes hit the Twin Towersand disabled people hit the, of
(09:26):
course don't have the option ofusing the stairs, even though
everybody tells you don't usethe elevators in case of
emergency.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
It's like well that's the only way.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
I can go up or down, and I think Pommy was saying
yeah, people are carryinghandicapped people down the
stairs to evacuate.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Yeah, a lot of firefighters were killed because
of that specifically, they weretrying to get people that were
not able to, for some reason,get down the stairs, so I did
hear that that was a major issuewhen that was all happening and
then also state and localgovernment services, where they
(10:14):
may be denied equal access tothe program's benefits and
opportunities.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
For example, the Medicaid issue is very weighing
on somebody who is permanentlydisabled mind because under
Medicaid you have to make belowa certain amount of money.
I fall into the category of Imake too much money so I don't
(10:43):
qualify for Medicaid, but youhave to be careful not to earn
more than Medicaid allows.
Medicare gives you, I think, asix-month window to try out
employment, see that it's goingto work out and see it's going
(11:05):
to make your bills.
And I think everybody, all theagencies that give you benefits,
need to do this.
Otherwise you're just going ona hope and a prayer and saying
cancel my benefits and I'll makeenough doing this job.
(11:25):
For all you know, you won'thave that job very long.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Which has caused the additional discrimination
because of poverty.
A lot of handicapped people arein the poverty levels and again
that itself leads into many,many, many problems Lack of
education, lack of health careand violence and abuse.
(11:51):
You're more vulnerable tophysical and emotional and
financial harm by predators whoare trying to exploit someone's
disability.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
And when PAMI brings up mental abuse, it's not always
the bad guy accosting you onstreet.
It's people constantly doubtingwhether you're faking it or
whatever for your free benefits.
(12:21):
I give up my benefits in aheartbeat to not be disabled.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
And I think a lot of people would do that, true
disabled people would do that.
I think that's a commontrade-off.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
There are a lot of bad actors out there who want to
take advantage of a short-termdisability, like workers'
compensation, or a long-termdisability, like Social Security
disability payments, and theybring out spotlights on
(13:06):
everybody involved in thedisability program.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Right.
These forms of discriminationviolate the human rights of the
handicapped person and preventthem from fully participating in
society.
And so, getting back to wherewe started on this, we noticed
in the movies that there wasmore and more people that were
being represented as either theywere.
(13:31):
In the past, I think they hadbeen played by abled actors.
And we noticed, because it waskind of brought to the surface
with the Barbie thing, thatnowadays we're seeing more and
more people with disabilitiesplaying people in shows, movies,
that are physically disabledand still able to do the job
(13:54):
that they were asked to do.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Which is a good thing .
It's also a bad thing if you'rean actor, because you've heard
of actors being typecast andunless there is a specific role
that needs an actor with adisability which may or may not
(14:19):
be tricolored, defined by hisdiagnosis, yeah, he's not going
to have the choice of roles hehad before.
Take, for example, Michael JFox with Parkinson's.
You used to see him quite a bit.
(14:41):
You don't see him as much now,but you do see him playing
somebody with Parkinson's.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
And I think that's just because it's a progressive
disease and at a certain pointyou're just not able to do the
job.
I think I just read.
I watched his Netflix, or wasit Apple, I can't remember.
He has a special on there and Iwatched it and you know he's
progressive, just like Kevin.
Kevin's is progressive and 10years agoday basis is a lot more
(15:13):
actively portraying a disabledperson's life.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
No, don't get me wrong, some actors do it quite
well, but that is a job to do itquite well.
In the past, the only disabledpeople I would see were actually
actors who were fully capable,playing somebody who had a
(16:15):
temporary disability Right aproblem with, because that's how
temporary disabilities work.
But for somebody to bepermanently mobility challenged,
you really, kind of are doingyour service by hiring a actor
(16:46):
who is fully capable and notlimited by disability to play
that role, because disabledpeople have a tendency to
uncover the flaw in the planOkay, this is supposed to be
(17:09):
disabled, but I have to go upsteps which is not handicapped
accessible.
So you know, that sort of thingcomes to light when you're
hiring a true mobility challengeperson to play that role.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Well, they're actually representing the whole
character and not just the partthat's disabled either, because
there's a lot of other thingsthat people bring to a role than
just being disabled.
I watched a bunch of YouTubeepisodes, I guess, while I was
preparing for this and there wasa real question of you know
(17:56):
whether they were questioningwhether plots of this had that
specifically had disability init were accurately.
You know, typically a movie willhave, you know, represent a
disabled person and they're on ajourney to get somewhere or
they're, you know, they're thehero of the story or the
(18:21):
challenges that they are able tosurpass because of disability.
There was a real and I can'tsay for myself because I'm not
disabled, but it didn'taccurately portray a lot of the
life of a handicapped person.
You know, yes, there ischallenges and you know you're
(18:42):
looking for the bright light atthe end and a lot of times there
is no bright light at the end.
You just learn to live withwhat disability you have and
that is what is just life, likeyou know, it's next super, super
character.
Or, you know, you're not aSuperman at the end.
So there was a lot ofcontroversy whether, even when
(19:06):
we have stories like this, ifthey truly represent the
disabled life.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
A good example of that is, I believe, dr Strange.
When he had a car accident.
He was no longer able to usehis hands properly and he was a
neurosurgeon, so he just kind ofwent off the deep end and said
(19:37):
I can't make a living doing whatI'm used to doing.
Instead of coping with it anddoing something else, he went on
a pilgrimage, basically learneda lot of mystical things that
(19:58):
allowed him to use his handsnormally.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Right, that was one of the criticisms is that magic
was.
You were thought to believethat these handicapped people
were able to achieve that, thesethings even in real life.
Not just you know superhero,but because it was magical or it
has superpowers or you know.
They always say that blindpeople have their other senses,
(20:23):
become enlightened and stufflike that, and that's really not
the case.
It's the fact that they learnedto live with their disability
and other things come to light.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Yeah, there are a lot of disabilities out there that
are quote-unquote uncarableright now, as of you know, 2023.
Right now, as of you know, 2023.
So the hardest part as adisabled person is facing up to
(20:54):
the fact that you're not goingto get better and you have to
make do with what you got.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
And make your life kind of when you have life.
When life gives you lemons, youjust make what you can of it
and you enjoy your life.
Everybody gets one life and ifyou're miserable throughout the
entire part of it, it probablywasn't a very happy life.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
To continue on with that metaphor in my case, life
gave me lemons on of made areally sloppy lemonade.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
But it's a joy to drink.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
According to Bob it is.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Oh, I'm sure your daughter thinks so too, but
you're not fighting it like youwere, you know, in the very
beginning.
It takes some time to adjust toit.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
It takes time to wrap your adjust to it and teach
time to wrap your head around it.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
And depression is always part of it, I think.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
It is.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
But anyways, getting back to it, so there was a lot
of stars with disabilities thathave after we took note of that.
They came to mind.
Like Marlene Matlin, she's deafand she starred in many movies
as the children of the lessergod, west Wing and the Switched,
and she's currently, I think,playing Switched.
(22:14):
At birth, kevin really was biginto Breaking Bad and the actor
that played the son has cerebralpalsy and he RJ Mitty, is that
how you say it?
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Yeah, that's him.
Yeah, yeah, Played WalterWright's son with cerebral palsy
, and he actually had cerebralpalsy.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
And then there was Chris Berkey is an actor who has
Down syndrome.
He plays Corky in the TV showLife Goes On and he also has
appeared on ER and Touched byAngels and the Commish.
Of course, probably the mostfamous is Christopher Reeve, who
became a quadriplegic after ahorse riding accident and he had
(23:03):
previously played Superman infour of the movies.
And he had previously playedSuperman in four of the movies
and was I don't know that heever.
I think he starred in a showabout himself, a special or
something like that.
A documentary, a documentaryabout his life.
Afterwards, unfortunately, hesuccumbed to his injuries.
(23:25):
And then there's other factors,and then thinking of a
different disorder, and he's thehost of the Deal or no Deal and
(23:56):
a judge of Americans Got Talent.
Now you don't necessarily thinkof that as a disability.
It's an unseen disability, Iguess, and those are probably
the most popular or not popular,but largest amount that would
represent the disabled people.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
I think we go on to break down in a future episode
which network has more disabledactors than others and how that
number has been rising forseveral years.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Yeah, and it says NBC leads the broadcasting network
in terms of representing peoplewith disabilities, with 18
characters representing 12% ofthe network's series regulars.
And there are some of these TVshows that cast disabled actors
are actual disabled characters,such as CODA, coda, call the
(24:59):
Midwife, feel the Beat and Gameof Thrones.
3.
Game of Thrones 3?
Speaker 1 (25:07):
I think we should also note that, as I said before
, we use chatGPD to augment oursearch in this episode, and
chatGPD doesn't interact withyou if you use hate speech, and
(25:34):
it informed me that beinglabeled as handicapped was
considered hate speech.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Never heard that before.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
I hadn't either.
So disabled is what Never heard, that before I hadn't either.
So disabled is what ChatGPTrecommended.
We've been going out of our wayto use the word disabled in
(26:08):
this podcast in case that is thecase.
But if there is a issue aboutif handicapped is a derogatory
word or a hateful word,certainly email us and let us
know that, because we justdidn't think anything about it.
We park in handicapped spaces,we apply for handicapped permits
(26:33):
, hotels ask for handicappedrooms.
It just never occurred to me.
That word is offensive.
So if you feel that is the case, give me some feedback.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
We'd like to see what percentage actually have heard
this yeah it was totally new tome.
We're not big media people, sowe're not aware of that.
So if we offended anybody, wewould like to apologize at this
point.
I think that does it for ustoday.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Well, let's talk a little bit about the Barbie
bottles.
That were not big sellers, butthey had mentioned the movie.
During the movie I didn'treally think that much of it.
I thought they just had somestory made up with Barbie to
(27:40):
take that role.
But, as it turns out, duringthe credits they actually would
show the products and why theywere and some of them were
actually pretty common sense butwhy they were less popular than
(28:04):
other dolls.
They were less balled thanother dolls, but handicapped
Barbie was a thing it justdidn't sell as well as other
Barbies did, so they took it offthe market.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
But there was also a pregnant Barbie which you know.
That would be common sense, Ithink.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
That was common sense .
Because they kept Barbie.
They showed the credits.
Came with, like I don't know,five kids.
You would give Val Crowe adress.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
No, that was another character.
That was the babysitting Barbie, I think.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
But they had a theme in the movie that Barbies that
got played with too much gotbroken either in their mind or
their body.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Yeah, that was a strange situation, but that was
not a discontinued bottle.
They didn't have that for real.
I did see that they are now.
It is now a Barbie that you canget.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
I can see that they are now.
It is now a Barbie that you canget.
Yeah, it is now, because youknow I mentioned it does quite
well in sales.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Yeah, anything unusual these days does well.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Yeah, they might actually bring back some of the
lesser models, because they werementioned in the movie, because
of the popularity, yeah.
The movie was actually the mostpopular thus far this year.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Yeah, it was a top-selling movie.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
I went twice, I got some of my money.
It broke all the box officerecords, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Yeah, I think it was not a good year for movies,
though, because of the strikingof the writers and the striking
of the actors' guilt, so I thinksome of that might have had.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
A lot of movies and TV shows are like halfway done
and they're waiting for thestrike to end or resolve itself.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
But now they're in league with the Actors Guild
that is now on strike.
Basically, they're waiting forthat Hollywood strike to be
(30:50):
resolved so they can finishunfinished parts of movies or TV
shows that typically and you'llbe able to tell me more I see
this through your life that youincreased the amount of
television that you watch,movies that you watch because of
your handicap, because of deardisability, and I find it ironic
that they're just getting itthat you know they should
(31:12):
represent that part of thepopulation, the population.
Yeah, I think that's ironicthat they're just now getting it
.
If you're talking 25, even ifthat's a low number of the
disability people that aredisabled, disabled in america or
in the world, that was america,right yes yeah, if you just
(31:35):
consider they're missing a largesection of possible eyes on
their movies or TV shows orwhatever.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Oh, I'm sure there are people that are way more
into this sort of thing and willactively seek out programs that
have disabled people or shyaway from programs where a fully
(32:05):
capable actor is playing adisabled role, but that's based
on the time we live in.
I hear a lot more of that now.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
It seems like in the last century, maybe we have a
lot more opinions.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
Well, the famous quote was you know, before we
had the internet?
people would say yeah a certainpopulation of our you know
percentage of our population isgoing to be ignorant of some
kind of issues because they justdon't or not that well educated
(32:53):
.
Then along came the Internetwith all the information
available.
Everybody wants to educate youand the meme now is like no,
that wasn't it.
It's kind of a joke becauseonce you unleash everybody to
start doing their own research,a trend I'm seeing is people
(33:20):
that label science aspseudoscience and vice versa.
They're doing their ownresearch and listening to people
who do promote pseudosciencebecause it goes along with part
(33:40):
of the research.
They're going with those, orwhat?
Speaker 2 (33:45):
they want the consequence to be.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Exactly and I hope we don't fall into those
(34:10):
categories in this.
But, as I said, I'm going totry to use demonstrate some
biases based on the informationthat was put into the
programming of that.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
Well, it can only spit out what you gave it.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Exactly.
The term that we're used tousing in computer science is
garbage in, garbage out.
If the process going into aprogram is flawed, the
(34:50):
conclusions of the program aregoing to be flawed, or could be
flawed if they get into theflawed areas of the program.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Sounds good, all right, let's end the program
here.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Okay, one thing we should mention is how to get a
hold of us.
You can go to our website atwwwwhenlifegivesyouleveragenet,
and all the information on howyou can get a hold of us is
(35:28):
there.
We're going to start having asocial media presence in the
future, then that about does it.
We'll see you next episode.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Bye now.
We are always looking toimprove the podcast, so if you
want to hear a specific topic,have a differencing opinion,
want to add something to theconversation, drop us an email.
Our contact information islisted on our website.
It'swwwwhenlifegivesyoulemonsnet.
We have recently added acompanion YouTube channel called
(36:05):
Making the Lemonade.
If you enjoy the podcast,continue your enjoyment by
joining us on YouTube.
Host
Jetheswaran Gunasekaran
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