May 2, 2023 • 22 mins
“I would like to see a veterans treatment court in reach of every veteran that's in need. Let us in the justice system be cognizant of the needs of the veteran. And if there's something we can do to assist them in their journey, let us do that.”
S1E5 profiles a true hero of the veterans treatment court movement, retired Buffalo Judge Robert Russell. In 2008, Judge Russell forever transformed the way the justice system identifies, assess, and treats veterans with a simple act of ingenuity and compassion. Hear the story of how the first veterans treatment court came to be, how it spawned a system of programs serving over 15,000 veterans each year, and why it represents the most effective intervention for justice-involved veterans with substance use and mental health disorders.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
We want to change that paradigm where a veteran feels that nothing good is going to come out of the fact that I'm here in criminal court.
(00:09):
And I would venture to say that it's unfortunate that you are there in criminal court.
However, there's something we can do about that to assist you where you don't have to return back to the justice system in the future.
We're going to do all we can to help you in this journey.
(00:29):
You're listening to the Justice for Vets podcast, when Thank You is not enough.
Hosted by retired Major General Butch Tate, this podcast is made possible with funding from the Bureau of Justice Assistance.
I want to thank everyone for joining us for this episode of the Justice for Vets podcast, when Thank You is not enough.
(00:52):
Our guest today is Judge Robert Russell, Buffalo, New York, Erie County, New York.
Judge on the bench for nearly 30 years.
And I've seen, he recently retired, but he had nearly 30 years on the bench.
And I've seen all sorts of efforts to introduce Judge Russell and to do it well.
I've heard this man needs no introduction, which to me is just somebody's way of saying,
(01:19):
I forgot I had to introduce him and that's the best I got.
Or I've also heard introductions to start with, well, when Judge Russell was a young man in grade school,
we're not going to do either of those today.
I just want to put it this way.
This is a man who embraced veterans treatment courts before they were cool.
(01:40):
15 years ago, he had the moral courage to kind of raise his hand and say,
hey, we're going to do this and there must be a better way to address the healthcare needs
of our justice involved veterans, the veterans that come before Judge Russell in court.
And I've always believed that it takes the moral courage of a judge to get this process,
(02:01):
not just started but sustained.
And today, we're just honored to have the man that made it all happen for us.
So that 15 years later, we do our best every day to fulfill his vision of what these courts
ought to be doing on behalf of our nation's veterans.
So Judge Russell, welcome to the podcast.
It's an honor to have you and always a pleasure to be with you.
(02:24):
All right.
Thank you.
And it's an honor to be here with you, General.
What a great joy.
We'll see how you feel in a few minutes, Judge, but I still hope you'll have that same perception
and enthusiasm for what we're doing.
But the fact that you left off my grade school antics, I'm very much pleased.
I think we've got some now.
(02:46):
Very good.
Very good.
Well, Judge, let's just start where we ought to start.
And that is this.
You're on the bench.
It's 2008.
You're running a mental health court, so to speak.
That's your mental health docket.
And you just decide that there's got to be a better way.
So my question to you is, what was the trigger that started you down this path that we have
(03:11):
also willingly followed to implement Veterans Treatment Courts?
What was that trigger, Judge?
Well, interestingly enough, it was actually working with a veteran on my mental health
docket.
And that docket was to work with individuals coming through our criminal justice system
that are dealing with significant mental health issues.
(03:33):
This was a Vietnam veteran.
And I should, as an aside, just say I started seeing coming through our court system, men
and women who had recently served in Afghanistan and Iraq.
So this particular individual wasn't really doing that well in his community mental health
(03:57):
counselor or providers.
He came in this court this particular day.
His posture was slump.
His clothing was a little bit disheveled, and he would not make eye contact with me.
When I asked how he was doing, he just kind of gave a guttural sound or a noise.
(04:18):
Well, in the courtroom, my project director at that time, Hank Perowski, he was a Marine,
Vietnam veteran, and also in the courtroom was a guy by the name of Jack O'Connor, Army
veteran, served in the 82nd Airborne, also a Vietnam veteran.
I asked him too if they would go out in the hallway and speak to this gentleman.
(04:41):
Well, 20 minutes later, this gentleman returned standing in front of me, standing in Iraq
at parade rest, making eye contact with me, saying that he's going to try harder.
Ask both Hank and Jack, stay up to court.
Let's talk about this.
And from that, I thought that there was a better way that we can work to provide a more
(05:06):
culturally appropriate approach to assisting our men and women who served in the military
to provide the best opportunity of success for them having stability in their healthcare.
Well, Judd, let me ask you.
You're the man.
You're in that courtroom.
(05:27):
You're up on that bench.
You got the black robe on.
You got a countless number of defendants being brought before you.
It wouldn't have been just as easy just to write him off and figure that whatever, we'll
get to this eventually.
We'll figure it out.
I mean, what caused you that day to go, you know?
(05:49):
There's just got to be something different here that we can do.
Well, the whole desire and the team that was assembled for my mental health core calendar,
our whole purpose, our mission is to do all we can to assist an individual in stability
in their life.
And if we're not doing it, then we need to rethink our approach.
(06:15):
And that's what it was with respect to the veteran population, rethinking our approach.
What was the, this is a question I've never asked you.
You know, lawyers are kind of trained to not ask a question, they don't know the answer
too, but I'm going to give it a shot.
And that is, how did your decision resonate with the other judges around you, with your
(06:35):
bosses who go, the last thing we need is a lot of great ideas there, Judge Russell.
How about you just do what we pay you to do?
What was the reaction to your efforts to make a change?
Well, and there's probably a good reason you never asked that question because, and
the team that I had assembled, one, I went to the VA, the Veterans Administration, and
(07:05):
I had indicated to our local Veterans Administration that we were thinking about having a day on
my calendar for just veterans, those who have served in the military and national guard
reserve.
And I didn't know whether it would be a good idea or not.
(07:28):
And I posed that to the VA and it was interesting because when I initially posed it, it was
in front of our local VA hospital advisory board that was comprised of veterans who were
active in the VA hospital or veterans that were active in veteran service organizations.
(07:50):
And interestingly enough, when I posed that question around the room, these veterans were
raising their hands.
And I'm a little skeptical because I didn't know whether they were going to ask me a bunch
of questions about what this court would look like because I didn't have the answer at that
time.
And I went around the room and asked, yes, what question you might have.
(08:13):
They said, Judge, if you're serious, I want to volunteer.
I say, excuse me, and around the room, every veteran sitting there said they would like
to volunteer if you were sincerely going to have a court to address veterans' health
care issues related to dependency on substances, mental health issues with regards to traumatic
(08:36):
brain injury, military, sexual trauma, whatever the issues are, we want to help and volunteer.
And from that point, I then said, fine, let's meet monthly.
And we did.
We met monthly for over a year.
I asked the VA, would they help us?
The VA said they would.
And matter of fact, they also agreed to have a staff come to our court on Veterans Treatment
(09:02):
Court Day to assist veterans one-on-one with linkages to services and other needs that
they might have.
And what you just said to me, I think validates my thought on this whole idea that none of
this happens without the moral courage of a judge who raises his or her hand to say,
we're going to do this, and we'll just, as they sometimes say, we'll build this plane
(09:26):
in flight.
And I'll tell you on behalf of thousands of veterans who have been a beneficiary of these
courts, a hearty thank you for moving forward and not moving forward with perfect information
because as any soldier, any veteran will tell you, if you wait until you have all the information
you'd like to have before you execute the mission, you will never get that mission done.
(09:50):
So judge, I want to switch gears here for a moment, not to downplay at all the challenges
you faced as you move forward on this, but now instead to create a picture of what these
courts look like for the veteran who's listening to us, especially for the justice involved
veteran, one whose behavior has got him or her crosswise with the law, and they're headed
(10:14):
into criminal court.
And the defense counsel says to them at some point, would you be interested in seeing if
they'll let you into veterans treatment court?
I'd like you just to give that veteran who's listening today an idea of what that looks
like when you as the veteran say, yeah, I'll try this veterans treatment court thing.
(10:35):
I heard Judge Russell talk about it.
What's it look like, Judge, when they move forward into a veterans treatment court arena?
Well, first of all, you had indicated a word of thanks to my effort, and I would like to
just say, I don't deserve the thanks.
I am grateful and thankful for the service of the men and women who have served our country
(11:00):
and for the freedom that I realize, in addition to the number of things that they have made
the sacrifices for.
So I think it's important that us in the justice system also recognize that.
So what's interesting when I think about veterans treatment court is an appreciation
(11:22):
of the fact that veterans from day one have had input on what the design and what this
court would look like.
Now the structure is one of a treatment court.
In other words, it's not a court just for veterans.
It's a court for veterans with a clinical diagnosis of need for treatment related services.
(11:49):
So that's first of all.
If there is a clinical need for treatment related services, then a veterans treatment
court should be the welcoming forum to assist the veterans to address these issues.
What's also neat about a veterans treatment court is that one, we tried to be culturally
(12:10):
appropriate to the veterans who have served in the military.
In addition, we have a number of veterans who volunteered from the community to assist
the veterans that are in the justice system to help them along the way from the beginning
(12:30):
to when they complete the program.
What's also neat is we have representatives from our Department of Veteran Affairs that
are in the court to get them linked to appropriate treatment related services.
We also have representatives from not only our Department of Veteran Affairs, but from
(12:52):
the benefit division to assist veterans with benefits that they earn through their service.
And I remember veterans don't realize that they've earned certain benefits.
Matter of fact, you have the laws that continuously provide different benefits that our veterans
need to be aware of.
(13:13):
We have a representative there.
In addition, we have a representative from the Department of Labor.
Sometimes our veterans return home, don't know where they're going to work or how their
military service translate to civilian workforce.
Well we have the Department of Labor there to assist them.
(13:35):
We also have representatives from the various veteran service organizations to provide additional
services.
In addition, we also have our county veteran department, Department of Veteran Affairs,
not only from the county, but from the state.
Some of our veterans will like to have an upgrade, maybe in their discharge status.
(14:01):
Some of our veterans will like to access certain benefits and veteran service officers can
be able to assist them.
And Judge, you're like an air traffic controller in that sense.
I mean, I've seen you in action, I've seen you in court.
As I recall, you are directing that traffic.
You're getting all the right folks who want to help connected with that justice-involved
(14:25):
veteran who needs help.
Does that kind of help summarize it?
Yes, it is.
It's in wanting to have a veterans treatment court as a one-stop location for veterans.
There's a need for housing.
There's a need for food.
There's a need for employment.
If you would like to go back to school, college.
(14:46):
One location, we can work and do all we can to assist that veteran in accessing those
services and making it a reality for that veteran.
And Judge, when you mentioned a diagnosed need, you're talking about, for example, PTSD,
substance use disorder, military sexual trauma, just as a few of those potential needs that
(15:10):
once diagnosed sort of opened the door for that veteran to come into the veterans treatment
court.
But I got to ask you the hard question here.
Nobody wants to be in criminal court.
We've all watched the TV shows.
It seems to me that nothing good happens in court.
What I'm hearing is, you know what?
(15:30):
We structured something good can come out of this fair statement.
Oh, without a doubt a fair statement.
One that changed that paradigm where a veteran feels that nothing good is going to come out
of the fact that I'm here in criminal court.
And I would venture to say that no, it's unfortunate that you are there in criminal
(15:52):
court.
However, there's something we can do about that to assist you where you don't have to
return back to the justice system in the future.
We're going to do all we can to help you in this journey.
And you know where I'm going next.
We talked about the VJOs, the veterans justice outreach employees of the VA who are in court
(16:14):
making things happen, connecting veterans to appointments, et cetera.
But you also said mentors.
Am I hearing you right?
And I think I am that each of those justice-involved veterans in your court are going to be assigned
a veteran mentor to help guide them through the process.
Could you just give a shout out to those mentors and your clear appreciation for the
(16:37):
role they fulfill?
I am so grateful to the men and women from the community who volunteer as veteran mentors.
They will work closely with our veteran participants to assist them on their journey.
In effect, many of our volunteer veteran mentors will assist veterans with housing.
(17:02):
Sometimes a veteran may be eligible for housing with respect to various government programs,
but it may take a time for that to kick in.
Our volunteer veteran mentors will find housing.
Some of them will find apartments that other veteran businesses own to at least provide
(17:27):
temporary shelter for that veteran if their homeless, their couch surfing to get them
an established apartment on for them.
In addition, our veterans might be concerned about food, shelter, our clothing, things
of that sort.
Our volunteer veteran mentors, they're awesome and they will make it happen and get it done.
(17:52):
As you know, I'll general take you, you sometime call them the secret sauce of veterans treatment
court.
And I believe it.
Yeah, I believe it.
Preach, as I would say there, I think.
Judge, I got two more things I want to ask you to touch on.
The first is we can't overlook the importance of the veterans family in addressing the needs
(18:18):
as we get this veteran launched on his or her journey to recovery.
So your thoughts on taking care of the veterans family and then one final question that I'll
use to wrap us up.
But how about the family piece, Judge?
Yeah, I'll tell you.
The family is critical.
And we sometimes say that the family serves in their unique way as the veteran has served.
(18:44):
And there may be needs of the family that's going to be important to our veterans feeling
of stability and that the needs are being taken care of.
We utilize not only a number of various community agencies to help and assist, but a number
(19:04):
of family issues.
But also the the vet center is a good resource that the veterans treatment court has linked
with and the vet center not only assists veterans who served in combat, but also part of what
it does is also work with family on family therapy, family needs and things of that sort.
(19:32):
In addition to our volunteer veteran mentors, also family are welcoming veterans treatment
court.
It's nice to see a veteran bringing their spouse in the court or maybe their children
to visit.
And we would do all we can to assist not only that veteran, but that veteran family.
(19:53):
Thank you, Judge.
Final question, Judge, what do you want to leave folks with who are sitting there listening
to you and me?
They're unimpressed with me, they're falling all over themselves having listened to you
about how what an opportunity this is for them.
What's your goal out of this?
What do you hope to build by being able to connect with the veteran who's listening to
(20:15):
us today?
Well, the veteran who's listening to us today, one is I would ask them to inquire of their
attorney whether veterans treatment court might be an option for them.
In addition, I think I would like to see a veterans treatment court in reach of every
(20:36):
veteran that's in need.
Lastly, I would like our justice system to be more culturally sensitized to the needs
of our veterans, whether it's in criminal court, whether it's in family court, whether
it's in landlord tenant court, bankruptcy court, whatever it might be, probate court,
(20:59):
let us all be in the justice system cognizant of the needs of the veteran.
And if there's something we can do to assist them in their journey, let us do that.
Our guest today has been Judge Robert Russell, a man who doesn't want the credit nor the
attention but who deserves thanks from all of us for moving forward with his veterans
(21:23):
treatment court movement back in 2008 and creating a path to hope, a path to wellness,
and a path to success for all of those veterans who have benefited from veterans treatment
court.
So, Judge Russell, thanks for your time.
Thanks for your insights.
And most of all, thanks for your commitment to this important advancement in the justice
(21:47):
system.
Take care and thanks.
Thank you.
This has been the Justice for Vets podcast when thank you is not enough.
Hosted by retired Major General Butch Tate.
This podcast is made possible with funding from the Bureau of Justice Assistance.
Thanks for listening.
We want to change that paradigm where a veteran feels that nothing good is going to come out of the fact that I'm here in criminal court.
(00:09):
And I would venture to say that it's unfortunate that you are there in criminal court.
However, there's something we can do about that to assist you where you don't have to return back to the justice system in the future.
We're going to do all we can to help you in this journey.
(00:29):
You're listening to the Justice for Vets podcast, when Thank You is not enough.
Hosted by retired Major General Butch Tate, this podcast is made possible with funding from the Bureau of Justice Assistance.
I want to thank everyone for joining us for this episode of the Justice for Vets podcast, when Thank You is not enough.
(00:52):
Our guest today is Judge Robert Russell, Buffalo, New York, Erie County, New York.
Judge on the bench for nearly 30 years.
And I've seen, he recently retired, but he had nearly 30 years on the bench.
And I've seen all sorts of efforts to introduce Judge Russell and to do it well.
I've heard this man needs no introduction, which to me is just somebody's way of saying,
(01:19):
I forgot I had to introduce him and that's the best I got.
Or I've also heard introductions to start with, well, when Judge Russell was a young man in grade school,
we're not going to do either of those today.
I just want to put it this way.
This is a man who embraced veterans treatment courts before they were cool.
(01:40):
15 years ago, he had the moral courage to kind of raise his hand and say,
hey, we're going to do this and there must be a better way to address the healthcare needs
of our justice involved veterans, the veterans that come before Judge Russell in court.
And I've always believed that it takes the moral courage of a judge to get this process,
(02:01):
not just started but sustained.
And today, we're just honored to have the man that made it all happen for us.
So that 15 years later, we do our best every day to fulfill his vision of what these courts
ought to be doing on behalf of our nation's veterans.
So Judge Russell, welcome to the podcast.
It's an honor to have you and always a pleasure to be with you.
(02:24):
All right.
Thank you.
And it's an honor to be here with you, General.
What a great joy.
We'll see how you feel in a few minutes, Judge, but I still hope you'll have that same perception
and enthusiasm for what we're doing.
But the fact that you left off my grade school antics, I'm very much pleased.
I think we've got some now.
(02:46):
Very good.
Very good.
Well, Judge, let's just start where we ought to start.
And that is this.
You're on the bench.
It's 2008.
You're running a mental health court, so to speak.
That's your mental health docket.
And you just decide that there's got to be a better way.
So my question to you is, what was the trigger that started you down this path that we have
(03:11):
also willingly followed to implement Veterans Treatment Courts?
What was that trigger, Judge?
Well, interestingly enough, it was actually working with a veteran on my mental health
docket.
And that docket was to work with individuals coming through our criminal justice system
that are dealing with significant mental health issues.
(03:33):
This was a Vietnam veteran.
And I should, as an aside, just say I started seeing coming through our court system, men
and women who had recently served in Afghanistan and Iraq.
So this particular individual wasn't really doing that well in his community mental health
(03:57):
counselor or providers.
He came in this court this particular day.
His posture was slump.
His clothing was a little bit disheveled, and he would not make eye contact with me.
When I asked how he was doing, he just kind of gave a guttural sound or a noise.
(04:18):
Well, in the courtroom, my project director at that time, Hank Perowski, he was a Marine,
Vietnam veteran, and also in the courtroom was a guy by the name of Jack O'Connor, Army
veteran, served in the 82nd Airborne, also a Vietnam veteran.
I asked him too if they would go out in the hallway and speak to this gentleman.
(04:41):
Well, 20 minutes later, this gentleman returned standing in front of me, standing in Iraq
at parade rest, making eye contact with me, saying that he's going to try harder.
Ask both Hank and Jack, stay up to court.
Let's talk about this.
And from that, I thought that there was a better way that we can work to provide a more
(05:06):
culturally appropriate approach to assisting our men and women who served in the military
to provide the best opportunity of success for them having stability in their healthcare.
Well, Judd, let me ask you.
You're the man.
You're in that courtroom.
(05:27):
You're up on that bench.
You got the black robe on.
You got a countless number of defendants being brought before you.
It wouldn't have been just as easy just to write him off and figure that whatever, we'll
get to this eventually.
We'll figure it out.
I mean, what caused you that day to go, you know?
(05:49):
There's just got to be something different here that we can do.
Well, the whole desire and the team that was assembled for my mental health core calendar,
our whole purpose, our mission is to do all we can to assist an individual in stability
in their life.
And if we're not doing it, then we need to rethink our approach.
(06:15):
And that's what it was with respect to the veteran population, rethinking our approach.
What was the, this is a question I've never asked you.
You know, lawyers are kind of trained to not ask a question, they don't know the answer
too, but I'm going to give it a shot.
And that is, how did your decision resonate with the other judges around you, with your
(06:35):
bosses who go, the last thing we need is a lot of great ideas there, Judge Russell.
How about you just do what we pay you to do?
What was the reaction to your efforts to make a change?
Well, and there's probably a good reason you never asked that question because, and
the team that I had assembled, one, I went to the VA, the Veterans Administration, and
(07:05):
I had indicated to our local Veterans Administration that we were thinking about having a day on
my calendar for just veterans, those who have served in the military and national guard
reserve.
And I didn't know whether it would be a good idea or not.
(07:28):
And I posed that to the VA and it was interesting because when I initially posed it, it was
in front of our local VA hospital advisory board that was comprised of veterans who were
active in the VA hospital or veterans that were active in veteran service organizations.
(07:50):
And interestingly enough, when I posed that question around the room, these veterans were
raising their hands.
And I'm a little skeptical because I didn't know whether they were going to ask me a bunch
of questions about what this court would look like because I didn't have the answer at that
time.
And I went around the room and asked, yes, what question you might have.
(08:13):
They said, Judge, if you're serious, I want to volunteer.
I say, excuse me, and around the room, every veteran sitting there said they would like
to volunteer if you were sincerely going to have a court to address veterans' health
care issues related to dependency on substances, mental health issues with regards to traumatic
(08:36):
brain injury, military, sexual trauma, whatever the issues are, we want to help and volunteer.
And from that point, I then said, fine, let's meet monthly.
And we did.
We met monthly for over a year.
I asked the VA, would they help us?
The VA said they would.
And matter of fact, they also agreed to have a staff come to our court on Veterans Treatment
(09:02):
Court Day to assist veterans one-on-one with linkages to services and other needs that
they might have.
And what you just said to me, I think validates my thought on this whole idea that none of
this happens without the moral courage of a judge who raises his or her hand to say,
we're going to do this, and we'll just, as they sometimes say, we'll build this plane
(09:26):
in flight.
And I'll tell you on behalf of thousands of veterans who have been a beneficiary of these
courts, a hearty thank you for moving forward and not moving forward with perfect information
because as any soldier, any veteran will tell you, if you wait until you have all the information
you'd like to have before you execute the mission, you will never get that mission done.
(09:50):
So judge, I want to switch gears here for a moment, not to downplay at all the challenges
you faced as you move forward on this, but now instead to create a picture of what these
courts look like for the veteran who's listening to us, especially for the justice involved
veteran, one whose behavior has got him or her crosswise with the law, and they're headed
(10:14):
into criminal court.
And the defense counsel says to them at some point, would you be interested in seeing if
they'll let you into veterans treatment court?
I'd like you just to give that veteran who's listening today an idea of what that looks
like when you as the veteran say, yeah, I'll try this veterans treatment court thing.
(10:35):
I heard Judge Russell talk about it.
What's it look like, Judge, when they move forward into a veterans treatment court arena?
Well, first of all, you had indicated a word of thanks to my effort, and I would like to
just say, I don't deserve the thanks.
I am grateful and thankful for the service of the men and women who have served our country
(11:00):
and for the freedom that I realize, in addition to the number of things that they have made
the sacrifices for.
So I think it's important that us in the justice system also recognize that.
So what's interesting when I think about veterans treatment court is an appreciation
(11:22):
of the fact that veterans from day one have had input on what the design and what this
court would look like.
Now the structure is one of a treatment court.
In other words, it's not a court just for veterans.
It's a court for veterans with a clinical diagnosis of need for treatment related services.
(11:49):
So that's first of all.
If there is a clinical need for treatment related services, then a veterans treatment
court should be the welcoming forum to assist the veterans to address these issues.
What's also neat about a veterans treatment court is that one, we tried to be culturally
(12:10):
appropriate to the veterans who have served in the military.
In addition, we have a number of veterans who volunteered from the community to assist
the veterans that are in the justice system to help them along the way from the beginning
(12:30):
to when they complete the program.
What's also neat is we have representatives from our Department of Veteran Affairs that
are in the court to get them linked to appropriate treatment related services.
We also have representatives from not only our Department of Veteran Affairs, but from
(12:52):
the benefit division to assist veterans with benefits that they earn through their service.
And I remember veterans don't realize that they've earned certain benefits.
Matter of fact, you have the laws that continuously provide different benefits that our veterans
need to be aware of.
(13:13):
We have a representative there.
In addition, we have a representative from the Department of Labor.
Sometimes our veterans return home, don't know where they're going to work or how their
military service translate to civilian workforce.
Well we have the Department of Labor there to assist them.
(13:35):
We also have representatives from the various veteran service organizations to provide additional
services.
In addition, we also have our county veteran department, Department of Veteran Affairs,
not only from the county, but from the state.
Some of our veterans will like to have an upgrade, maybe in their discharge status.
(14:01):
Some of our veterans will like to access certain benefits and veteran service officers can
be able to assist them.
And Judge, you're like an air traffic controller in that sense.
I mean, I've seen you in action, I've seen you in court.
As I recall, you are directing that traffic.
You're getting all the right folks who want to help connected with that justice-involved
(14:25):
veteran who needs help.
Does that kind of help summarize it?
Yes, it is.
It's in wanting to have a veterans treatment court as a one-stop location for veterans.
There's a need for housing.
There's a need for food.
There's a need for employment.
If you would like to go back to school, college.
(14:46):
One location, we can work and do all we can to assist that veteran in accessing those
services and making it a reality for that veteran.
And Judge, when you mentioned a diagnosed need, you're talking about, for example, PTSD,
substance use disorder, military sexual trauma, just as a few of those potential needs that
(15:10):
once diagnosed sort of opened the door for that veteran to come into the veterans treatment
court.
But I got to ask you the hard question here.
Nobody wants to be in criminal court.
We've all watched the TV shows.
It seems to me that nothing good happens in court.
What I'm hearing is, you know what?
(15:30):
We structured something good can come out of this fair statement.
Oh, without a doubt a fair statement.
One that changed that paradigm where a veteran feels that nothing good is going to come out
of the fact that I'm here in criminal court.
And I would venture to say that no, it's unfortunate that you are there in criminal
(15:52):
court.
However, there's something we can do about that to assist you where you don't have to
return back to the justice system in the future.
We're going to do all we can to help you in this journey.
And you know where I'm going next.
We talked about the VJOs, the veterans justice outreach employees of the VA who are in court
(16:14):
making things happen, connecting veterans to appointments, et cetera.
But you also said mentors.
Am I hearing you right?
And I think I am that each of those justice-involved veterans in your court are going to be assigned
a veteran mentor to help guide them through the process.
Could you just give a shout out to those mentors and your clear appreciation for the
(16:37):
role they fulfill?
I am so grateful to the men and women from the community who volunteer as veteran mentors.
They will work closely with our veteran participants to assist them on their journey.
In effect, many of our volunteer veteran mentors will assist veterans with housing.
(17:02):
Sometimes a veteran may be eligible for housing with respect to various government programs,
but it may take a time for that to kick in.
Our volunteer veteran mentors will find housing.
Some of them will find apartments that other veteran businesses own to at least provide
(17:27):
temporary shelter for that veteran if their homeless, their couch surfing to get them
an established apartment on for them.
In addition, our veterans might be concerned about food, shelter, our clothing, things
of that sort.
Our volunteer veteran mentors, they're awesome and they will make it happen and get it done.
(17:52):
As you know, I'll general take you, you sometime call them the secret sauce of veterans treatment
court.
And I believe it.
Yeah, I believe it.
Preach, as I would say there, I think.
Judge, I got two more things I want to ask you to touch on.
The first is we can't overlook the importance of the veterans family in addressing the needs
(18:18):
as we get this veteran launched on his or her journey to recovery.
So your thoughts on taking care of the veterans family and then one final question that I'll
use to wrap us up.
But how about the family piece, Judge?
Yeah, I'll tell you.
The family is critical.
And we sometimes say that the family serves in their unique way as the veteran has served.
(18:44):
And there may be needs of the family that's going to be important to our veterans feeling
of stability and that the needs are being taken care of.
We utilize not only a number of various community agencies to help and assist, but a number
(19:04):
of family issues.
But also the the vet center is a good resource that the veterans treatment court has linked
with and the vet center not only assists veterans who served in combat, but also part of what
it does is also work with family on family therapy, family needs and things of that sort.
(19:32):
In addition to our volunteer veteran mentors, also family are welcoming veterans treatment
court.
It's nice to see a veteran bringing their spouse in the court or maybe their children
to visit.
And we would do all we can to assist not only that veteran, but that veteran family.
(19:53):
Thank you, Judge.
Final question, Judge, what do you want to leave folks with who are sitting there listening
to you and me?
They're unimpressed with me, they're falling all over themselves having listened to you
about how what an opportunity this is for them.
What's your goal out of this?
What do you hope to build by being able to connect with the veteran who's listening to
(20:15):
us today?
Well, the veteran who's listening to us today, one is I would ask them to inquire of their
attorney whether veterans treatment court might be an option for them.
In addition, I think I would like to see a veterans treatment court in reach of every
(20:36):
veteran that's in need.
Lastly, I would like our justice system to be more culturally sensitized to the needs
of our veterans, whether it's in criminal court, whether it's in family court, whether
it's in landlord tenant court, bankruptcy court, whatever it might be, probate court,
(20:59):
let us all be in the justice system cognizant of the needs of the veteran.
And if there's something we can do to assist them in their journey, let us do that.
Our guest today has been Judge Robert Russell, a man who doesn't want the credit nor the
attention but who deserves thanks from all of us for moving forward with his veterans
(21:23):
treatment court movement back in 2008 and creating a path to hope, a path to wellness,
and a path to success for all of those veterans who have benefited from veterans treatment
court.
So, Judge Russell, thanks for your time.
Thanks for your insights.
And most of all, thanks for your commitment to this important advancement in the justice
(21:47):
system.
Take care and thanks.
Thank you.
This has been the Justice for Vets podcast when thank you is not enough.
Hosted by retired Major General Butch Tate.
This podcast is made possible with funding from the Bureau of Justice Assistance.
Thanks for listening.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.