August 1, 2024 • 24 mins
“It flips the justice system on its head from this notion that it has to be incapacitation or retribution or deterrence. And instead, we think, how can we make sure that this individual, after they've touched the justice system, that they leave healthy?”
In episode 4, Butch continues the conversation about peer support with Dr. Jacqueline van Wormer, director of the All Rise Center for Advancing Justice. Dr. van Wormer offers insight into the vital role peer recovery support plays in assisting justice-involved individuals with accepting, sustaining, and thriving in treatment and recovery. An expert in program implementation and sustainability, Dr. Van Wormer walks through the steps of implementing peer support and the elements critical to its success with the justice-involved population.
For more on peer recovery support, click here.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
It sort of flips the justice system on its head from this kind of traditional notion,
(00:05):
this philosophical notion that it has to be incapacitation or retribution or deterrence.
And instead we think, how can we make sure that this individual, after they've touched
the justice system, that they leave healthy?
You're listening to the Justice for Vets podcast, when thank you is not enough.
(00:26):
Hosted by retired Major General Butch Tait.
This podcast is made possible with funding from the Bureau of Justice Assistance.
Welcome to season two, episode four of our podcast, when thank you is not enough.
Now you've heard me talk in prior podcasts about veterans treatment courts, obviously.
(00:48):
And my view that those courts are an excellent example of community, government, and courts
at their very finest, with key participants coming together to improve outcomes for justice-involved
veterans.
One key component of our previous discussion has been the presence of mentors in courts
(01:10):
to help the justice-involved veteran find his or her way through the process.
We even had an episode last season in our first season of this podcast where we focused
on veteran mentors in veterans treatment courts.
Today we're going to take a little different spin on the presence of mentors in court,
(01:31):
and we're going to talk about specifically peer recovery support specialists.
Different than the veteran mentor, certainly, but certainly related in that they all work
together to improve outcomes for veterans.
I'm really pleased that our guest for this episode is my colleague from All Rise, Dr.
Jacqueline Van Warmer, who is the director of the All Rise Center for Advancing Justice.
(01:58):
Jackie, I know that was an inadequate introduction for you to this audience, so let's take a
moment and have you talk a little bit about your background and what brought you to your
work at the Center for Advancing Justice.
Thanks for having me on as the director of the Center for Advancing Justice, which for
(02:18):
the listeners, I'm not sure if they're aware, but it's been over a year now since we have
rebranded at All Rise.
We were historically the National Association of Drug Court Professionals for many years,
which is the country's leading training and technical assistance organization for treatment
courts.
(02:39):
But our board of directors and our CEO had a vision to rebrand to not only capture the
work that we do within treatment courts, including veterans courts, but also the recognition
that substance use and mental health and trauma doesn't just exist at that point of court.
It permeates the justice system.
(03:02):
Because we've been so successful in implementing an evidence-based model in courts in order
to support individuals into that life of recovery, the idea was to stretch our work across the
justice system.
(03:22):
This occurs at that first point of contact with police.
They see it.
If you look at a jail roster, the majority of the people in the jail are going to have
a substance use or mental health disorder or need great levels of trauma, even physical
needs.
(03:42):
The board, not only through the rebranding and our CEO, Carson Fox, not only through
the rebranding, but then creating the Center for Advancing Justice, where we are allowed
at the center to be able to work across the criminal justice system, working with law
enforcement agencies or within jails or with probation departments at that point of reentry
(04:04):
from prison or jail.
And also having it be a place of innovation.
It's like our incubator for new ideas and to take what we've learned in other areas
of the justice system that have been successful and then test that practice in maybe a new
(04:25):
area.
And it's also the place where we hold all of our international work.
So for the listeners, just so you know, this work is being done across the world.
This notion of treatment courts and really getting to the core needs of an individual
through the justice system, which sort of flips the justice system, sorry, on its head
(04:48):
from this kind of traditional notion, this philosophical notion that it has to be incapacitation
or retribution or deterrence.
And instead we think, how can we make sure that this individual, after they've touched
the justice system, that they leave healthy?
I really like how you describe the Center for Advancing Justice as a place of innovation
(05:10):
within All Rise.
This organization can get so consumed by the day-to-day work involved in training and technical
assistance that it takes an extra effort to ensure that we are thinking of new ways or
improving on old ways to improve outcomes for justice-involved veterans.
(05:31):
Now, certainly one thing you bring to our organization is a diverse background, whether
it's research, whether it's academia, as well as your experience as a treatment court practitioner.
And you mentioned earlier evidence-based practices and applying them to real-world scenarios,
very critical to what we do.
So how about sharing some advice with those listeners who are trying to figure out how
(05:54):
best to apply those real-world or those evidence-based practices to their real-world scenarios?
I'm often referred to as a pracademic, which means that I was a practitioner in the justice
system for over 20 years of my career before deciding to head back to school with three
(06:14):
children in tow and to finish off my doctorate and then landed in academia.
So I've kind of moved between the two worlds of being a practitioner.
I was a probation officer.
I worked inside prisons.
I eventually landed in treatment courts and eventually landed in court management.
(06:36):
And I've kind of held every position in the justice system in my very long career.
And in my career, I was always very focused on trying to bring forward strong practice.
But I would see continually that we would try to put something in place and we had a
(06:58):
grant for it and then after three years, it would just fail or fall apart.
And that really was intriguing to me in terms of why is implementation so difficult in the
justice system?
And we know that this isn't just limited to the justice system actually, General, that
it is something that permeates the business world and medical field.
(07:24):
For example, the medical field, the average uptake of a new innovation is 17 years until
it's solidified in practice.
That's been shown in some research.
And so there's all these factors that can impact strong implementation and sustainability
of a program.
And so at the center and of course, through the work that we do at Justice for Revenants
(07:49):
and at All Rise, we're very aware of what factors create a strong environment for implementation
and sustainability.
Because in the end, when you have an evidence-based practice, we know that there's certain criteria
that should be followed.
(08:10):
And so we focus on making sure that there's organizational readiness, that there's a shared
vision for the program, that organizations are willing to adopt this innovation or this
new program.
We make sure that the individual is ready, that it aligns with their values and their
beliefs.
(08:30):
And if they have hesitation, we spend time explaining what it is and exploring some of
that ambivalence that might exist in terms of bringing on yet another new innovation
or another new program.
And some people, quite frankly, General, are very entrenched in the traditional notions
(08:53):
of a justice system, which is retribution and deterrence.
And this idea, again, of trying to move with that integration of health, of public health
into the justice system to better impact recidivism, it's hard for some people.
And so exploring that ambivalence is pretty important as well.
(09:16):
Now, if I were a trademark attorney, I'd figure out a way for you and me to trademark
pracademic.
I love that.
But it's a clever word, but it captures so much about how we try to find individuals
on our team who have lived experience as having worked in these environments.
(09:36):
And you clearly have done that and now found a way to translate that experience to others.
I want to pivot just a little bit here and talk about peer recovery.
You recently published a co-authored publication on peer recovery.
And terminology matters because we want to, before I ask you the question, make sure we
(09:59):
distinguish the mentors, veteran treatment court mentors, as compared to VA peer support
specialists, where we had a VA guest on in one of our last episodes to talk about that.
And then today we're talking about peer recovery support specialists.
So that's what I want to focus the remainder of our time on and ask you just right up front,
(10:23):
what is peer recovery and how do those peer recovery specialists play a role in supporting
programs and people in the justice system?
So let's talk a little bit then about peer recovery support specialists.
That was a nice pivot because I was given an example of taking my lived experience,
of course, and bringing it forward.
And that's what these individuals do.
(10:43):
They take that experience and bring it forward.
And so there are a lot of positions out there that have these varied terms to them and they
run from the informal all the way to the formal.
And really the distinguishing factor among all of these is certification and training
(11:07):
and a code of ethics that needs to be followed.
And so for example, we have these mentors that serve in our veteran programs across
the country.
And these are these amazing individuals that of course have served our country and they
bring forward that shared experience of serving the country and being matched to a participant
(11:32):
in one of our veteran treatment courts.
The type of training that they receive is generally maybe through All Rise or through
the court itself.
So it's more program specific training and support so that they can learn more about
the model and how to go about mentoring and supporting the individual that they're working
(11:57):
with.
So they have that lived experience of of course serving in the military.
They may or may not be in recovery or may or may not have their own behavioral health
diagnosis that was incurred during service, may or may not.
That's not a condition that needs to be there in order to be serving as a mentor.
(12:18):
And then if you kind of and that so that is a very important point.
But if we think about moving along that continuum into the position of peer recovery support
specialist that are certified by the VA.
So they're referred to as VA peer support specialist.
(12:40):
Those are individuals that have military service.
They obviously served in the military, but they might they do have that diagnosis generally.
So maybe a substance use disorder, a mental health need, a traumatic brain injury, various
levels of trauma.
They generally don't have a history of criminal justice involvement, but it might be possible.
(13:02):
So those individuals receive training and support and certification through the VA.
And then as we continue along that continuum, we have what is now appearing in many of our
treatment courts and across the criminal justice system, to be quite honest, the position of
(13:23):
peer recovery support specialist.
So these are individuals that have lived experience.
And for our definition that we're using at All Rise, they have lived experience in the
justice system and they also are in active recovery.
And so they are they maybe have a substance use disorder, mental health, co-occurring.
(13:49):
And interestingly enough, they may have been veterans or they may have been not veterans,
but you can see here.
So but that point of being a PRSS, and I'm sorry, I know I'm using the acronym, but being
a peer recovery support specialist, what we have at that level is formal state certification
procedures.
So there's an initial training, there's ongoing training that has to happen with this individual
(14:11):
generally at least 40 hours a year.
They have a direct supervisor that is connected to them at a treatment agency and or a community-based
recovery organization.
And it is more of a formal relationship with that client because of that certification.
(14:32):
There's a code of ethics that they have to follow.
But it is considered a mutually beneficial relationship where that person is saying,
where that peer is saying to the participant, I've walked this walk and I'm going to walk
it with you.
And so I think an important message for the listener would be that these are distinct
(15:01):
roles.
They all mean something different, but yet they're all pulling together to assist that
justice-involved individual, be it veteran or someone else in the treatment court program,
improve their outcomes and their chances of success.
Let me ask a couple of more questions here that will serve as takeaways for our listeners.
(15:25):
I've got a program, I've got a treatment court program.
How do I begin the process of engaging in peer recovery support?
Well, that's the great thing, General, is that we wrote these guidelines as also kind
of a planning guide for teams if they are interested in bringing on a peer into the
(15:47):
program.
And we have five guidelines that teams need to take a look at.
But that first step really is going through a thorough planning process.
It should be about a six-month process before you bring a peer into the treatment court
program.
Because we don't want this position misused, first of all.
(16:10):
And we've seen some of that practice across the country and it's been concerning.
It was kind of a flag for us.
And so that is also why we dug into this and took a close look at the research and did
some of our own research to really determine what was happening in the field.
For example, again, this peer should be sitting under a treatment agency and or a recovery
(16:37):
organization.
They should not be employed directly by the court or by a prosecutor's office.
We need that independent line of supervision.
They're not another probation officer.
They're not another set of eyes for the judge.
They're not to share personal information about the participant in a staffing.
(16:58):
And so because of all of this, the team needs time to understand what is the role of the
peer?
What can they do?
What can't they do?
What can be asked of them?
What should not be asked of them?
And there has to be memorandums of understanding created around that.
There has to be funding secured.
These peers do not work for free.
These are certified specialists that have training, that have an education, and they
(17:24):
need to be compensated.
And so how are you going to pay for the position?
Will they sit?
What will be their role in court?
Will they sit in staffing?
And I will state that we're very clear in the guidelines that if a team chooses to have
this individual in the staffing room when they're talking about clients, they're not
(17:49):
there to share any personal information about the participant.
They're there to share their lived experience.
And so we put forward these guidelines so that teams could go through a very thoughtful
planning process and think about what is the role of the peer.
There is sample job descriptions.
There are sample interview questions.
There are sample memorandums of understanding in the guidebook.
(18:11):
But teams need the time to really think about what is the role and purpose of the peer recovery
support specialist in the program.
Again, they're not another set of eyes and ears for the judge or the prosecutor.
They are there to walk that walk with the participant.
It's a mutually beneficial relationship.
And so if they should attend staffing, we require in the guidelines that they are not
(18:37):
there to, again, report out on the client.
They're there to share their own lived experience, to say, for example, judge, when I was at
that 90 day mark, here's what I was feeling.
And here's why John might really be struggling with substances right now, because there's
(18:58):
still cravings.
There's still compulsion.
And so that's the purpose of the peer, again, not to share all sorts of what this participant
may or may not be doing according to the program.
And those guidelines and the publication that you co-authored, and I mean, that's what we
do.
(19:19):
We help organizations navigate some of these difficult issues of carving out appropriate
roles for each of the participants on the team.
And that's our existence.
That's why we do what we do.
And so we're certainly available to help courts and programs navigate all this.
Jack, I want to wrap up by just sort of highlighting a couple of important things we've talked
(19:44):
about.
I think we've made a clear distinction of who the participants are, the PRSS, the VA,
peer support specialist, the Veterans Treatment Court mentor, all aimed at being a part of
the successful road to recovery for the participant.
You've done a ton of research in this area, clearly.
(20:06):
What's the data showing you about the success of having a peer recovery support specialist
in the courtroom to assist the participant?
Is this stuff working?
We have a lot of research about the role of the peer in other systems.
For example, in the mental health system, peers have been used for a very long time
in the physical, in the public health system.
(20:29):
The use of peers in the justice system and specifically in treatment courts is new or
newer.
And there are several studies that have recently been released on the role of the peer recovery
support specialist in treatment court.
And it's tending towards the positive, depending on the study.
(20:52):
Some small effects, but tending towards the positive.
So lower recidivism, which that's the indicator that we're sort of always held to in the justice
system.
Are we in fact impacting crime?
But it's also about increasing treatment completion and engagement in treatment.
And so there's some promising results there as well.
(21:15):
But general, in the larger literature, I think what's important here is to think about all
of these individuals that work with our participants in our veterans courts or in our treatment
courts is that our work that we do should be to help them build up their recovery capital.
(21:36):
And recovery capital is all of it.
The definition is all of the internal and external conditions that are needed in order
to initiate and sustain recovery.
And recovery is not only possible, but it's highly probable if all the right conditions
are present.
(21:57):
And so for these individuals, a key factor in recovery capital, we have human capital,
which means that they have, for example, that their Maslow's hierarchy of needs is met.
So they have access to housing, to clothing, to food.
But on the other hand, that they also have access to learning new skills, for example,
how to manage high risk situations, how to manage my triggers, how to do that cost benefit
(22:24):
analysis in my head.
But social capital is all about those natural supports that are going to sustain an individual
long after our program is gone.
And that's what this does.
Having that peer that helps to build that recovery community for an individual.
(22:45):
People that can make it, General, just real quick, to that four to seven year mark of
recovery only have about a 14 to 15% chance of returning to use.
And they get there through building up their recovery capital.
They get there through having those natural supports.
And that's what all these positions do.
(23:05):
They bridge that gap between the two.
I can assure you that your passion for this topic, your passion for it, and your commitment
to helping those undergoing this long journey in some cases is really evident.
And we are grateful for that.
And I assure you that at some point today, I'm going to try to work pro-academic and
(23:26):
building social and recovery capital into my conversation today.
Because I think those are just awesome ways to describe what the PRSS and the impact it
has on those in this journey whom we are trying to help.
So I couldn't have been more pleased to have you on the show today, Jackie.
(23:48):
And I think more importantly, we are pleased to have you as part of our organization aimed
at making and improving outcomes for those undergoing this experience.
So thanks for all of us.
Pleasure to be your colleague in this journey.
And we appreciate your information.
We'll put some of the guidebook and other important references and resources on our
(24:11):
website for easy access to those who are interested in the PRSS.
But thanks again to Dr. Jackie VanWormer, the Director of All Rise Center for Advancing
Justice.
Thanks, Jackie.
Thank you for having me.
This has been the Justice for Vets podcast, when thank you is not enough.
Hosted by retired Major General Butch Tate.
(24:32):
This podcast is made possible with funding from the Bureau of Justice Assistance.
Thanks for listening.
It sort of flips the justice system on its head from this kind of traditional notion,
(00:05):
this philosophical notion that it has to be incapacitation or retribution or deterrence.
And instead we think, how can we make sure that this individual, after they've touched
the justice system, that they leave healthy?
You're listening to the Justice for Vets podcast, when thank you is not enough.
(00:26):
Hosted by retired Major General Butch Tait.
This podcast is made possible with funding from the Bureau of Justice Assistance.
Welcome to season two, episode four of our podcast, when thank you is not enough.
Now you've heard me talk in prior podcasts about veterans treatment courts, obviously.
(00:48):
And my view that those courts are an excellent example of community, government, and courts
at their very finest, with key participants coming together to improve outcomes for justice-involved
veterans.
One key component of our previous discussion has been the presence of mentors in courts
(01:10):
to help the justice-involved veteran find his or her way through the process.
We even had an episode last season in our first season of this podcast where we focused
on veteran mentors in veterans treatment courts.
Today we're going to take a little different spin on the presence of mentors in court,
(01:31):
and we're going to talk about specifically peer recovery support specialists.
Different than the veteran mentor, certainly, but certainly related in that they all work
together to improve outcomes for veterans.
I'm really pleased that our guest for this episode is my colleague from All Rise, Dr.
Jacqueline Van Warmer, who is the director of the All Rise Center for Advancing Justice.
(01:58):
Jackie, I know that was an inadequate introduction for you to this audience, so let's take a
moment and have you talk a little bit about your background and what brought you to your
work at the Center for Advancing Justice.
Thanks for having me on as the director of the Center for Advancing Justice, which for
(02:18):
the listeners, I'm not sure if they're aware, but it's been over a year now since we have
rebranded at All Rise.
We were historically the National Association of Drug Court Professionals for many years,
which is the country's leading training and technical assistance organization for treatment
courts.
(02:39):
But our board of directors and our CEO had a vision to rebrand to not only capture the
work that we do within treatment courts, including veterans courts, but also the recognition
that substance use and mental health and trauma doesn't just exist at that point of court.
It permeates the justice system.
(03:02):
Because we've been so successful in implementing an evidence-based model in courts in order
to support individuals into that life of recovery, the idea was to stretch our work across the
justice system.
(03:22):
This occurs at that first point of contact with police.
They see it.
If you look at a jail roster, the majority of the people in the jail are going to have
a substance use or mental health disorder or need great levels of trauma, even physical
needs.
(03:42):
The board, not only through the rebranding and our CEO, Carson Fox, not only through
the rebranding, but then creating the Center for Advancing Justice, where we are allowed
at the center to be able to work across the criminal justice system, working with law
enforcement agencies or within jails or with probation departments at that point of reentry
(04:04):
from prison or jail.
And also having it be a place of innovation.
It's like our incubator for new ideas and to take what we've learned in other areas
of the justice system that have been successful and then test that practice in maybe a new
(04:25):
area.
And it's also the place where we hold all of our international work.
So for the listeners, just so you know, this work is being done across the world.
This notion of treatment courts and really getting to the core needs of an individual
through the justice system, which sort of flips the justice system, sorry, on its head
(04:48):
from this kind of traditional notion, this philosophical notion that it has to be incapacitation
or retribution or deterrence.
And instead we think, how can we make sure that this individual, after they've touched
the justice system, that they leave healthy?
I really like how you describe the Center for Advancing Justice as a place of innovation
(05:10):
within All Rise.
This organization can get so consumed by the day-to-day work involved in training and technical
assistance that it takes an extra effort to ensure that we are thinking of new ways or
improving on old ways to improve outcomes for justice-involved veterans.
(05:31):
Now, certainly one thing you bring to our organization is a diverse background, whether
it's research, whether it's academia, as well as your experience as a treatment court practitioner.
And you mentioned earlier evidence-based practices and applying them to real-world scenarios,
very critical to what we do.
So how about sharing some advice with those listeners who are trying to figure out how
(05:54):
best to apply those real-world or those evidence-based practices to their real-world scenarios?
I'm often referred to as a pracademic, which means that I was a practitioner in the justice
system for over 20 years of my career before deciding to head back to school with three
(06:14):
children in tow and to finish off my doctorate and then landed in academia.
So I've kind of moved between the two worlds of being a practitioner.
I was a probation officer.
I worked inside prisons.
I eventually landed in treatment courts and eventually landed in court management.
(06:36):
And I've kind of held every position in the justice system in my very long career.
And in my career, I was always very focused on trying to bring forward strong practice.
But I would see continually that we would try to put something in place and we had a
(06:58):
grant for it and then after three years, it would just fail or fall apart.
And that really was intriguing to me in terms of why is implementation so difficult in the
justice system?
And we know that this isn't just limited to the justice system actually, General, that
it is something that permeates the business world and medical field.
(07:24):
For example, the medical field, the average uptake of a new innovation is 17 years until
it's solidified in practice.
That's been shown in some research.
And so there's all these factors that can impact strong implementation and sustainability
of a program.
And so at the center and of course, through the work that we do at Justice for Revenants
(07:49):
and at All Rise, we're very aware of what factors create a strong environment for implementation
and sustainability.
Because in the end, when you have an evidence-based practice, we know that there's certain criteria
that should be followed.
(08:10):
And so we focus on making sure that there's organizational readiness, that there's a shared
vision for the program, that organizations are willing to adopt this innovation or this
new program.
We make sure that the individual is ready, that it aligns with their values and their
beliefs.
(08:30):
And if they have hesitation, we spend time explaining what it is and exploring some of
that ambivalence that might exist in terms of bringing on yet another new innovation
or another new program.
And some people, quite frankly, General, are very entrenched in the traditional notions
(08:53):
of a justice system, which is retribution and deterrence.
And this idea, again, of trying to move with that integration of health, of public health
into the justice system to better impact recidivism, it's hard for some people.
And so exploring that ambivalence is pretty important as well.
(09:16):
Now, if I were a trademark attorney, I'd figure out a way for you and me to trademark
pracademic.
I love that.
But it's a clever word, but it captures so much about how we try to find individuals
on our team who have lived experience as having worked in these environments.
(09:36):
And you clearly have done that and now found a way to translate that experience to others.
I want to pivot just a little bit here and talk about peer recovery.
You recently published a co-authored publication on peer recovery.
And terminology matters because we want to, before I ask you the question, make sure we
(09:59):
distinguish the mentors, veteran treatment court mentors, as compared to VA peer support
specialists, where we had a VA guest on in one of our last episodes to talk about that.
And then today we're talking about peer recovery support specialists.
So that's what I want to focus the remainder of our time on and ask you just right up front,
(10:23):
what is peer recovery and how do those peer recovery specialists play a role in supporting
programs and people in the justice system?
So let's talk a little bit then about peer recovery support specialists.
That was a nice pivot because I was given an example of taking my lived experience,
of course, and bringing it forward.
And that's what these individuals do.
(10:43):
They take that experience and bring it forward.
And so there are a lot of positions out there that have these varied terms to them and they
run from the informal all the way to the formal.
And really the distinguishing factor among all of these is certification and training
(11:07):
and a code of ethics that needs to be followed.
And so for example, we have these mentors that serve in our veteran programs across
the country.
And these are these amazing individuals that of course have served our country and they
bring forward that shared experience of serving the country and being matched to a participant
(11:32):
in one of our veteran treatment courts.
The type of training that they receive is generally maybe through All Rise or through
the court itself.
So it's more program specific training and support so that they can learn more about
the model and how to go about mentoring and supporting the individual that they're working
(11:57):
with.
So they have that lived experience of of course serving in the military.
They may or may not be in recovery or may or may not have their own behavioral health
diagnosis that was incurred during service, may or may not.
That's not a condition that needs to be there in order to be serving as a mentor.
(12:18):
And then if you kind of and that so that is a very important point.
But if we think about moving along that continuum into the position of peer recovery support
specialist that are certified by the VA.
So they're referred to as VA peer support specialist.
(12:40):
Those are individuals that have military service.
They obviously served in the military, but they might they do have that diagnosis generally.
So maybe a substance use disorder, a mental health need, a traumatic brain injury, various
levels of trauma.
They generally don't have a history of criminal justice involvement, but it might be possible.
(13:02):
So those individuals receive training and support and certification through the VA.
And then as we continue along that continuum, we have what is now appearing in many of our
treatment courts and across the criminal justice system, to be quite honest, the position of
(13:23):
peer recovery support specialist.
So these are individuals that have lived experience.
And for our definition that we're using at All Rise, they have lived experience in the
justice system and they also are in active recovery.
And so they are they maybe have a substance use disorder, mental health, co-occurring.
(13:49):
And interestingly enough, they may have been veterans or they may have been not veterans,
but you can see here.
So but that point of being a PRSS, and I'm sorry, I know I'm using the acronym, but being
a peer recovery support specialist, what we have at that level is formal state certification
procedures.
So there's an initial training, there's ongoing training that has to happen with this individual
(14:11):
generally at least 40 hours a year.
They have a direct supervisor that is connected to them at a treatment agency and or a community-based
recovery organization.
And it is more of a formal relationship with that client because of that certification.
(14:32):
There's a code of ethics that they have to follow.
But it is considered a mutually beneficial relationship where that person is saying,
where that peer is saying to the participant, I've walked this walk and I'm going to walk
it with you.
And so I think an important message for the listener would be that these are distinct
(15:01):
roles.
They all mean something different, but yet they're all pulling together to assist that
justice-involved individual, be it veteran or someone else in the treatment court program,
improve their outcomes and their chances of success.
Let me ask a couple of more questions here that will serve as takeaways for our listeners.
(15:25):
I've got a program, I've got a treatment court program.
How do I begin the process of engaging in peer recovery support?
Well, that's the great thing, General, is that we wrote these guidelines as also kind
of a planning guide for teams if they are interested in bringing on a peer into the
(15:47):
program.
And we have five guidelines that teams need to take a look at.
But that first step really is going through a thorough planning process.
It should be about a six-month process before you bring a peer into the treatment court
program.
Because we don't want this position misused, first of all.
(16:10):
And we've seen some of that practice across the country and it's been concerning.
It was kind of a flag for us.
And so that is also why we dug into this and took a close look at the research and did
some of our own research to really determine what was happening in the field.
For example, again, this peer should be sitting under a treatment agency and or a recovery
(16:37):
organization.
They should not be employed directly by the court or by a prosecutor's office.
We need that independent line of supervision.
They're not another probation officer.
They're not another set of eyes for the judge.
They're not to share personal information about the participant in a staffing.
(16:58):
And so because of all of this, the team needs time to understand what is the role of the
peer?
What can they do?
What can't they do?
What can be asked of them?
What should not be asked of them?
And there has to be memorandums of understanding created around that.
There has to be funding secured.
These peers do not work for free.
These are certified specialists that have training, that have an education, and they
(17:24):
need to be compensated.
And so how are you going to pay for the position?
Will they sit?
What will be their role in court?
Will they sit in staffing?
And I will state that we're very clear in the guidelines that if a team chooses to have
this individual in the staffing room when they're talking about clients, they're not
(17:49):
there to share any personal information about the participant.
They're there to share their lived experience.
And so we put forward these guidelines so that teams could go through a very thoughtful
planning process and think about what is the role of the peer.
There is sample job descriptions.
There are sample interview questions.
There are sample memorandums of understanding in the guidebook.
(18:11):
But teams need the time to really think about what is the role and purpose of the peer recovery
support specialist in the program.
Again, they're not another set of eyes and ears for the judge or the prosecutor.
They are there to walk that walk with the participant.
It's a mutually beneficial relationship.
And so if they should attend staffing, we require in the guidelines that they are not
(18:37):
there to, again, report out on the client.
They're there to share their own lived experience, to say, for example, judge, when I was at
that 90 day mark, here's what I was feeling.
And here's why John might really be struggling with substances right now, because there's
(18:58):
still cravings.
There's still compulsion.
And so that's the purpose of the peer, again, not to share all sorts of what this participant
may or may not be doing according to the program.
And those guidelines and the publication that you co-authored, and I mean, that's what we
do.
(19:19):
We help organizations navigate some of these difficult issues of carving out appropriate
roles for each of the participants on the team.
And that's our existence.
That's why we do what we do.
And so we're certainly available to help courts and programs navigate all this.
Jack, I want to wrap up by just sort of highlighting a couple of important things we've talked
(19:44):
about.
I think we've made a clear distinction of who the participants are, the PRSS, the VA,
peer support specialist, the Veterans Treatment Court mentor, all aimed at being a part of
the successful road to recovery for the participant.
You've done a ton of research in this area, clearly.
(20:06):
What's the data showing you about the success of having a peer recovery support specialist
in the courtroom to assist the participant?
Is this stuff working?
We have a lot of research about the role of the peer in other systems.
For example, in the mental health system, peers have been used for a very long time
in the physical, in the public health system.
(20:29):
The use of peers in the justice system and specifically in treatment courts is new or
newer.
And there are several studies that have recently been released on the role of the peer recovery
support specialist in treatment court.
And it's tending towards the positive, depending on the study.
(20:52):
Some small effects, but tending towards the positive.
So lower recidivism, which that's the indicator that we're sort of always held to in the justice
system.
Are we in fact impacting crime?
But it's also about increasing treatment completion and engagement in treatment.
And so there's some promising results there as well.
(21:15):
But general, in the larger literature, I think what's important here is to think about all
of these individuals that work with our participants in our veterans courts or in our treatment
courts is that our work that we do should be to help them build up their recovery capital.
(21:36):
And recovery capital is all of it.
The definition is all of the internal and external conditions that are needed in order
to initiate and sustain recovery.
And recovery is not only possible, but it's highly probable if all the right conditions
are present.
(21:57):
And so for these individuals, a key factor in recovery capital, we have human capital,
which means that they have, for example, that their Maslow's hierarchy of needs is met.
So they have access to housing, to clothing, to food.
But on the other hand, that they also have access to learning new skills, for example,
how to manage high risk situations, how to manage my triggers, how to do that cost benefit
(22:24):
analysis in my head.
But social capital is all about those natural supports that are going to sustain an individual
long after our program is gone.
And that's what this does.
Having that peer that helps to build that recovery community for an individual.
(22:45):
People that can make it, General, just real quick, to that four to seven year mark of
recovery only have about a 14 to 15% chance of returning to use.
And they get there through building up their recovery capital.
They get there through having those natural supports.
And that's what all these positions do.
(23:05):
They bridge that gap between the two.
I can assure you that your passion for this topic, your passion for it, and your commitment
to helping those undergoing this long journey in some cases is really evident.
And we are grateful for that.
And I assure you that at some point today, I'm going to try to work pro-academic and
(23:26):
building social and recovery capital into my conversation today.
Because I think those are just awesome ways to describe what the PRSS and the impact it
has on those in this journey whom we are trying to help.
So I couldn't have been more pleased to have you on the show today, Jackie.
(23:48):
And I think more importantly, we are pleased to have you as part of our organization aimed
at making and improving outcomes for those undergoing this experience.
So thanks for all of us.
Pleasure to be your colleague in this journey.
And we appreciate your information.
We'll put some of the guidebook and other important references and resources on our
(24:11):
website for easy access to those who are interested in the PRSS.
But thanks again to Dr. Jackie VanWormer, the Director of All Rise Center for Advancing
Justice.
Thanks, Jackie.
Thank you for having me.
This has been the Justice for Vets podcast, when thank you is not enough.
Hosted by retired Major General Butch Tate.
(24:32):
This podcast is made possible with funding from the Bureau of Justice Assistance.
Thanks for listening.
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