October 27, 2024 • 33 mins
Special guest Eli Honeycutt of OdysseyLifeAdventures shares his experience growing up Jehovah's Witness while coming to terms with his sexuality and the estrangement following his separation from the cult.
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SPEAKER_02 (00:01):
The following is a big complete media production.
SPEAKER_01 (00:19):
All right, and today is Monday, September the 13th.
Welcome to When the Bell BreaksPodcast.
I'm your host, Alexis Erlin, andour guest today is Eli Honeycat.
Eli, why don't you tell us alittle bit about yourself?
You kind of have an excitingstory.
SPEAKER_00 (00:35):
Ah, thanks, Alexis, for having me on.
Where do I start?
Well, I mean, really just a cultkid that just another cult kid.
Just another cult kid runningaround uh trying to figure out
life and uh and coming to aplace of really understanding
um, you know, myself and andreally what happened to me and
(01:01):
how I moved through all of that.
And so, you know, I grew up in ablended family.
So um my mother uh had my motherand father had both been married
previously and had children fromboth of those marriages, and my
mom um chose into the Jehovah'sWitness belief system, and then
(01:27):
uh met my father through herolder brother, and she brought
him into the Jehovah's Witness,you know, belief system, and
then I was their first child,and I have two more siblings
behind, um, you know, justbeneath me.
So there's eight of us.
So kind of a you know, largefamily, blended family, and
(01:50):
primarily I call New Mexico'sreally where I feel like I grew,
you know, like that's where myheart really kind of grew up.
I was born in Texas, but youknow, really raised and grew up
in in New Mexico.
And um yeah, a lot to to talkabout because it sounds like
there's a lot in there.
(02:11):
Yeah, yeah, there's a lot, but Ithink that the biggest piece
about my story and like when thebow breaks and my understanding
of sort of the trajectory oflike the show or the theme of it
is these moments when we startto really I look at ourselves
and what maybe we've gonethrough.
And you know, for a long time Ihad a lot of um attachment to my
(02:33):
story, and especially coming outqueer and then being kicked out
of the community and losingfamily.
You know, it was a great storyto tell.
And we love stories, humans lovestories, everything is a story,
um, but we can get reallyattached to them, and I found
that I was really attached to itfrom far more of a victim
standpoint, and really the otherpiece that was so fascinating to
(02:58):
me as I started to really lookat my personal development stuff
and spiritual was that one ofthe hardest things for me, and I
think many people who have leftreligious systems of belief and
mind control and manipulationhave really like who are they
(03:19):
outside of those structures, butmore importantly, how did that
impact how you're showing up inlife?
And although I thought it wasreally well adjusted and did
really well, you know, and kindof pulled myself up, um it was
really started to impact me,especially in relationships and
(03:41):
close relationships, um, becauseI didn't I was so unaware of uh
things that I was doing and theway that I was behaving, and
almost like the fear of reallyintimacy, and then like a big,
big thing for me is like wasbeing secret, you know, or
(04:03):
keeping like having nobody elsein my shit.
So it's really interesting.
I'm on a ton of podcasts, youknow.
I've had podcasts, I've sharedreally vulnerably, but that took
quite a bit of time to come to aplace of understanding the
impact of that programming andmind control and shifting from
(04:24):
victims to shifting the storyfrom it happening to me and
being stuck in it, which canreally bog us down and also
impact our lives and the waythat we're showing up in life,
to harnessing it andunderstanding the gifts in it,
(04:44):
but also how that really createdwas creating my reality and was
really impacting my life.
SPEAKER_01 (04:52):
And so I have I have a question.
When did you first start to feellike this isn't quite right?
Were you little or were you ateenager or were you an adult?
When did you start to feel likethis doesn't feel right?
SPEAKER_00 (05:10):
I'll answer that.
You know, what my answer isgonna come from where I stand
right now and the way that Ilook back at it.
SPEAKER_02 (05:16):
Sure.
SPEAKER_00 (05:16):
You know, the way that I look at we have to peel
this onion back of all the thethe maybe the ways that we look
at lives and the lenses that wehave on.
Now, the way I look at it andbeing able to to stand back with
a little bit of wisdom, I don'tthink I ever really bought into
it.
It's boring as and I cuss a lot,but it was so boring.
SPEAKER_02 (05:40):
Go for it.
SPEAKER_00 (05:41):
But in Job's with Jehovah's Witnesses, what's
really insidious is that whenyou look at so you know, our
brains are so malleable betweenzero and seven, and we're taking
on so much, and that's reallywhen we're in our creating like
our survival mode, like how dowe get our needs met based on
(06:03):
food, feeling secure, feelingloved.
And so, you know, I was broughtup in a family that had a lot of
kind of chaos because there wasa lot of kids.
My parents made a cross-countrymove, my dad went from having a
job to being a business owner.
You know, that's a lot of chaos,yeah, big changes.
(06:24):
And for a little kid to takethat in, now I understand, like,
oh, like he was, and I referredto it in kind of a third person,
but like he really had to gothrough a lot, and not only on
top of that, Jehovah's Witnessesreally teach a lot of fear and
removal of self.
(06:45):
So the thing about their uh whatdo I want to say?
My way that they control is toremove the sense of self and
they keep you hyper-vigilantbecause you're always looking at
yourself as if you're wrong,right?
SPEAKER_01 (07:01):
Yeah, you're always second-guessing yourself,
always, yep.
SPEAKER_00 (07:05):
But I didn't realize that that that's where had got
inculcated into me when I wasreally young.
And so when I look back, what Ireally have become aware of was
that I learned that in order tobe safe and have my needs met,
because my other siblings werekind of all over the place, and
(07:27):
I could sense that there wereissues, even though maybe
consciously that as a child Ididn't know.
But my next oldest brother, whois 10 years older, was like a
rebel, and so what I do really,yeah.
So what I took on was this likeI could see how it impacted my
(07:47):
parents, and so it's like, well,I don't want to be that, I want
to be successful and or and tobe the good boy because we all
want to be the good boy, wedon't want to be the bad boy or
the good girl, not the bad boy,bad girl.
And so I don't think I everbought into it, but I think I
learned that playing this roleand creating this character that
(08:08):
could play into it was will keepme safe, and it would keep me
what I thought was love, right?
SPEAKER_01 (08:17):
Yeah, my kid said something really interesting,
interesting to me one day.
I was talking with my son, andone day he he told me when we
were talking about, oh, rememberwhen we used to go to this
church and remember when we usedto do that, and my son said
something really funny.
He said, I always knew it wasbullshit, mom.
(08:37):
But the funny thing was is thatI always kind of knew it was
bullshit too.
But you know, the uh the ideathat you have to keep your safe
yourself safe is so much bigger,and you learn that very early
on.
I grew up very much the sameway, very fear-based, uh, very
scary religion.
And so you learn at a very youngage, you have to adapt because
(09:01):
this is what keeps you safe, oryou think it's what's keeping
you safe.
Yeah, you think this group isyou you don't believe it, but
also at the same time, you stillbelieve a lot of the things that
you've been conditioned tobelieve, especially when you're
a kid.
There's still a lot of it you dobelieve, even though there's
some of it you don't.
Um, so yeah, it's a veryconfusing time for a kid, I
(09:22):
assume.
SPEAKER_00 (09:24):
Yeah, because you're getting these mixed messages,
you know, and then I went toschool and I was the weirdo, you
know, because I had to I had tostep up and be like, at the
time, you know, you stillsaluted the flat, you know, did
the pledge of allegiance inschool, and we we were Jehovah's
Witnesses remain neutral so theydon't pledge of allegiance.
So at five years old, you know,I had to take a stance and be
(09:46):
like, because my parents werelike, you have to do this,
because what I heard was pledgeof allegiance, death.
Yeah, you know, basically, likethat's the messaging.
And so it's like, well, I can'tdo that because then I'm dead.
And and the same aroundbirthdays and all that stuff.
So you're totally confused, andthen you move into this next
(10:09):
stage.
So that the next stage when Ireally knew something was off
was you know, for between abouteight and 14 is when a lot of
things start to happen for us,and we puberty and our awareness
of ourselves, our body, others'bodies, those type of things.
And I knew that I was different.
I didn't have the wording, or Ijust knew that I had a different
(10:31):
perspective than a lot of otherpeople because I didn't like
girls.
I had a lot of it wasn't thatthey didn't have cooties, I
thought that they were great tobe friends with, but it was, you
know, that awareness started tocome about, but it was so clear
also because you know, I heardthe messaging all the time that
(10:52):
this was evil and wrong, andthat it's a choice and that you
shouldn't live like that.
SPEAKER_01 (10:58):
And yeah, yeah, same, same.
So can you walk me through alittle bit about your like how
your relationship with yourparents is like or what it was
like back then, maybe?
SPEAKER_00 (11:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, I I the sad, I thinkthe really sad part of it is and
what I I find sad for a lot ofhumanity is the loss of you
know, the inability for us tohave vulnerable conversations
(11:32):
and real real conversations thatspeak truth with family,
especially.
And I know there's a lot ofpeople that have great
relationships, but I didn't knowmy parents, you know, as as
individuals, I knew them asauthority figures, the rule
makers, you know.
Um they I the adults in thehouse, you know, yeah, the
(11:56):
adults in the house, the oneswho are supposed to feed you and
care for you.
But I when I really think aboutit, like um I ended up being a
lot of emotional support for mymom, which um, you know, now
that I'm really aware of, I'mlike, I understand that part
that was that was that role thatkind of was playing out.
(12:18):
But I wouldn't say I really knewthem as individuals at all
because they were as they theywould not talk about their past
life, you know, their previouslives before Jehovah's
Witnesses.
And we were really removed andisolated from our extended
families.
So I didn't grow up around, Ididn't know the stories.
Um, and I think the whole time,especially as a teenager, I got
(12:42):
my driver's license very earlyon, and I started working, and I
just did anything to not be inthe house or be around them.
SPEAKER_01 (12:51):
Anything too, yeah.
Same.
SPEAKER_00 (12:53):
It's like, you know, and I wasn't a bad kid, I didn't
really do a lot of anythingreally crazy because I still had
that fear of like God.
But um, but I didn't know them,and and in fact, um, I think the
what I look back and it's it iswhat it is, you know.
My now that my dad, my dad hasbeen gone, I think almost 10
(13:16):
years.
Um and I when I found out he waspassing away, I had not seen him
in probably like like 13 years.
And um, you know, I got a halfan hour with him totally alone.
He was at home in hospice and hewas in mentally, you know, like
(13:37):
we could have a really goodconversation.
And he I was going on a six-weektrip that I had already planned
to New Zealand, and I was gonnabe gone when he would pass.
Like we knew, like we knew thathe was gonna go.
And I told him, I'm like, I can,you know, I can cancel, I can be
here with mom, you know, I canyou know, I'll do any of those
(13:59):
kind of things that you need.
And and he looked at me and hetold me to have a seat, and he's
like, nah, he's like, I want youto go live your life.
Go, go live.
I love you.
He's like, I'm at peace.
Um and then we got to have, Ireally asked him some questions
about his youth and like himbecause he actually was a really
(14:20):
cool dude.
Um, and he worked really hard,and so I have built a very
different relationship with himnow because I see his wisdom and
I see what he was teaching us,and I just didn't have the
capacity to want to fuckinglisten to him when I was a kid.
SPEAKER_01 (14:37):
Sure.
SPEAKER_00 (14:38):
And and I think it was also skewed by the way that
it was delivered, but I think hewas doing his best to teach us
some real truths.
SPEAKER_01 (14:48):
And if you'd like to be a guest, send us an email,
wtbb podcast at gmail.com.
Back to the show.
SPEAKER_00 (14:57):
But you know, my mom and I had been estranged for
better part of now, I mean whatuh like since I'm gonna go.
Yeah, I don't even know.
And we had a conversation maybethree years ago where she really
opened up for the first time,you know, and she's like, I I
(15:19):
really apologize.
There was a pretty major eventthat happened when I was 14 that
was really awful, and it dealtwith the Jehovah's Witnesses and
some of the elders in thecongregation, you know, and
she's like, I look back at that,she's like, I think I'll live
with that the rest of my life.
And she's like, when thathappened, I I couldn't be a
mother to you.
(15:39):
Um, and I'm so sorry becauseshe's like, I didn't know how to
handle my own emotions and Ididn't know how to be there for
you.
And she's like, and you know, Iwant you to know your father
kept telling me to leave youalone and just let you be.
And I I stopped and I was like,What can you tell me what you're
saying?
Like, what is that actually?
SPEAKER_01 (15:59):
Yeah, what does that mean?
SPEAKER_00 (16:01):
And she's like, Well, I he was he was telling me
to just let you live your lifeto be gay, because he we both
knew you were gay from the timeyou were a baby.
We knew it wasn't a choice, weknew it was you, we had always
known it.
She's like, but I couldn't letit go.
And he kept telling me to, and Ithink that really impacted their
(16:21):
marriage because things reallychanged, and I just wasn't aware
of all that stuff.
So, you know, they had to dealwith a lot of those burdens.
And fortunately, you know, Ithink we're in a place where I
believe where, you know, as wereveal who we are and we do this
personal development and we getto know ourselves, we can really
heal ourselves, not just uhthrough the mind, but through
(16:44):
the energetics in our body tomove that trauma out of our body
and to reshape the story and tobe in a far more empowered,
compassionate, unconditionalloving of myself first, and then
unconditional love of them,right?
And like your mother or mymother, or anybody else that's
listening to this, you'redealing with their
(17:06):
seven-year-old.
Yeah, for the most part, theirseven-year-old was raising you
because the 50% of our brains,uh, the way we look at things,
belief structures, even the waywe see color, the way we hear,
the way we taste, everything iskind of programmed in between
zero and seven.
And so we're looking atgenerations of passed down
(17:28):
beliefs where ultimately, likeyour mom, my mom, did not have
the capacity to heal orunderstand that seven-year-old,
right, in their relationship.
So for your mom or mine, what Irealized was that it had nothing
(17:49):
to do with that she didn't loveme.
Right.
What was triggering for her wasthat in her body and in her
mind, that is if she acceptedme, that was death to her.
SPEAKER_01 (18:00):
Yeah, or death to me.
Yeah, or death to you, right?
Yeah, it's just fear.
SPEAKER_00 (18:05):
Yeah, and so then it's like, oh I how do I deal
with this?
And I don't know how to dealwith this because their whole
world would crumble for the mostpart, right?
SPEAKER_01 (18:14):
Yep, yep.
I knew what I yeah, I struggledwith cutting it off from my
family, and I knew what I whatit was going to.
I mean, I still had no ideabecause I hadn't actually gone
through it, but I knew that itwas gonna be rough for everyone.
SPEAKER_00 (18:29):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (18:30):
So it's when you cut things off, was it kind of like
uh was there sort of like anincident that kicked kicked it
off, or was it sort of a gradualthing?
How did that kind of happen?
SPEAKER_00 (18:43):
Oh, I was dragging my feet.
The and the universe made ithappen to be honest.
Like I looked back on like, Iit's like sometimes that
happens, right?
It kind of has to blow up in ourface to to actually make the
change.
But uh there's really two bigthings that that happened for me
was that um and I had struggledwith trying to live out the
(19:08):
character of being this goodJehovah's Witness boy, um, while
just also living a double lifebecause I just it it was just
inevitable.
Um, but there really came a timewhere I felt a crossroads and I
could feel it.
Like it was just I really feltlike I only had two choices.
(19:28):
It was either choose to be aJehovah's Witness and totally
cut that part off, you know, cutmyself off, get married, and
just go with it, or accept thatI was gay.
And I had always known I wasgay, but there's something
really different when youfinally accept it within
(19:49):
yourself and you really look atit, um, or queer, whatever.
Yeah, and um I when I chose Thatand I was just like it was on a
trampoline in South Dakota inthe Black Hills.
I still remember, and I'm justlike looking up at the stars,
and yeah, I was at a Jehovah'sWitness like get together with
(20:12):
some friends, and I couldn't doit, and I was laying out there,
and it was like you have achoice, and I'm like, I can't do
this anymore.
I did that's I can't.
And when I accepted that, lifereally started to change for me.
But what happened was I gotouted because some Jehovah's
Witness Jehovah's Witnesses wereeverywhere, they knew me.
(20:33):
And um oddly enough, the firstguy that I really met and dated
was an ex-Job's Witness.
And it just got found out reallyquickly.
And so, like that really justshort sort of ended everything
because then my parents foundout, and the elders and the
congregation and all it justblew up.
SPEAKER_01 (20:57):
So, did they sort of excommunicate you like formally,
or did you just sort of walkstep back from them?
SPEAKER_00 (21:04):
I refused to go in, I knew what was going to happen.
SPEAKER_01 (21:08):
So you basically got invited to to an
excommunication.
You're like, nah, I think I'lltoday.
SPEAKER_00 (21:13):
I'm gonna opt out of that.
SPEAKER_01 (21:15):
Like bother, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:18):
Not today.
Um, yeah, that's cute.
I really appreciate it.
Thanks for the invite, but uh,I'm not available.
Um and so then that really justset my life on a whole different
course because I lost allcommunity and I really had no
friends outside of Joe'sWitnesses.
So it was like, I didn't knowwho I was.
SPEAKER_01 (21:41):
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(22:02):
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Back to the show.
Did you feel misunderstood bythe mainstream?
You're like, first I feelmisunderstood by my religion.
Now I'm away from my religion.
Now I feel misunderstood by themainstream because I'm was I
grew up Christian and I feltvery awkward, you know,
socially.
Did you feel like that as a cultkid?
SPEAKER_00 (22:24):
Yeah, yeah, because I wasn't really big in into I
was not a big drinker, you know,I didn't really drink, I had
never done drugs.
Um, I never celebratedbirthdays, I had never done
holidays, and so like I wastrying them out and for in fact,
like the first Christmas I did,it was so overwhelming that ever
(22:45):
since I've just don't do it.
SPEAKER_01 (22:47):
Rarely.
Yeah, because that is a bigthing.
If you're not familiar withChristmas, it's a it's a big
thing.
No, it was exhausting.
SPEAKER_00 (22:55):
It was I didn't like it.
Um, and it felt it felt forced,and that was a big thing for me.
Is I'm like, this just doesn'tfeel natural.
I don't care about the thebiblical beliefs or any of those
kind of things, it just feltforced, it didn't feel real to
me.
Um, but I think the big thingswere I didn't know how to be in
relationship, I didn't know howto make like friends, but you
(23:18):
know, we we uh look, there's alot of non-ethical cults, and
there's a lot of cults.
SPEAKER_01 (23:25):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_00 (23:25):
Yeah, cult is basically shared language, you
know, shared kind of community.
So you could take, I live inDenver, so I look I always
equate this like Denver Broncos,a diehard Denver Bronco fan, but
it's a cult, they have thingsthey talk about, it's not bad,
right?
But um, you know, moving intothe queer community, then it was
like, okay, well, we these arethe things we do, and this is
(23:48):
how you be queer.
And I was so used to adaptingthat I suddenly was like, Well,
I guess this is how you'resupposed to be.
So I'm gonna get on board withthis shit and I'm gonna do it
really well.
And I did it really well.
Um, but it it still didn't feelaligned, and I always felt just
(24:09):
like, how many labels am I gonnahave to stick on myself before I
find out who I am?
Yeah, I hated it.
Yeah.
Um, and then that kind of blewapart too.
SPEAKER_01 (24:17):
So yeah, right.
Yeah.
Did you have did you kind ofimplode your sense of self a
little bit?
Did you have a little bit of anidentity crisis?
Did you really struggle?
SPEAKER_00 (24:26):
Yeah, it was really hard because I didn't.
Well, one of the things inrelationships, like Jehovah's
Witnesses always taught thatlike when you date, like if you
date, like if you're going ondates, that actually means that
you're on the path to engagementto marriage.
SPEAKER_01 (24:44):
Right.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:45):
So the poor guy that I first dated, not the first
real boyfriend that I got at itwith, but I went on a couple of
dates with this guy, and I feelI look back and I'm like, oh my
God, Eli.
Like, no wonder he ran.
Because I was just like, he, Ireally liked him, and then he
liked me, and we went on, youknow, it had been, I don't know,
I don't can't even remember howlong, but I was like, This is my
(25:07):
boyfriend, this is who I'm gonnamarry, and like this is great.
SPEAKER_01 (25:10):
I'm like super excited, and then he was like,
I'm out, and I'm like, It's likeso yeah, did you feel like you
were overprepared for for orthink you were over prepared for
marriage?
I guess a young adult because ofyour face, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um, that's funny.
Uh, because yeah, it's same.
I I won't uh disclose too muchabout myself, but yeah, you get
(25:33):
because you know we're groomedand we're conditioned to be a
certain way from a very youngage.
And then when we hit thosecertain, you know, milestones in
our personal lives, it's we havethis incentive to go and do the
thing that we were told we hadto do.
SPEAKER_02 (25:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (25:49):
And but it's not always the best thing for us.
SPEAKER_02 (25:54):
No.
SPEAKER_01 (25:54):
So can you tell me a little bit about what you do
now?
What's your life like now?
Like how long has it been sinceyou've been out of the cold?
I'm I'm guessing like 15, 20years about maybe.
SPEAKER_00 (26:06):
I think it was probably really probably 20 plus
years now.
Yeah.
I built a really successfulcareer in banking and finance,
and then that just was also, Iwas starting to look around, and
this was a little bit past whenmy dad had passed.
Um, and I just was like, what amI doing?
(26:30):
Like, this doesn't feel I lookedat all my peers, right?
And I was one of the youngerones in the job at the time,
like I had gotten it reallyyoung, a pretty high position.
And so as I looked at all mypeers, all my peers were 15
years plus and had been doingthis job for like you know, like
a long time.
Yeah, and I'm like, I've beendoing this job 10 years, and I
(26:53):
am cannot fucking do this.
Like, I just started looking atthem and I'm like, this can't be
life.
And I started questioning, and Ihad really started to dive into
more of like how I had beenimpacted.
So, like, I had gone to a cultrecovery therapist, started
really my personal developmentuncovering, and that just led me
through a whole differentlandscape of coming to really
(27:17):
know myself and um askingmyself, like for the first time,
like, who am I?
Who who am I really outside ofall these characters and beliefs
and all that stuff?
And as I started to really getdown to that, I started to be
able to heal, but also revealparts of me where I'm like, this
(27:38):
is more of who I really am.
And this, these are the thingsthat I enjoy, and this is how my
life, these are the things I'mreally good at.
So I now I do um publicspeaking, so I speak a lot about
lenses and perspectives.
Um, and I talk about and helporganizations or um groups
really be able to take a very umhumanistic approach.
(28:02):
So everything I do is reallylike based on like very human,
very real, but also helpingpeople understand and start to
peel back and get curious aboutwho they are.
So I do that through publicspeaking.
Um I work with um a lot, I workwith men um specifically, and
(28:25):
oftentimes queer men, but a lotof men, and just helping them to
understand masculinity, um,understand how to feel.
So a lot of my stuff, uh, thework that I also do is all
around just helping people learnhow to feel, how to understand
their emotions, because theprimary language that we were
(28:48):
never taught was our energeticlanguage.
The vibe we talk about the vibe,yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (28:57):
People say aura, you know, whatever.
SPEAKER_00 (28:59):
Yeah, it doesn't feel good.
You know, we we use thesecomments, the these thoughts,
but for the most part, um, yeah,I help people feel back the
layers and reveal who they areso that they can really start to
not only heal themselves, butbuild a relationship with
themselves where they can seethat like I don't have to carry
(29:21):
these stories, I don't have tocarry this trauma.
I don't need to like I can letgo of it, but it's it's not
easy.
And so, yeah, I do publicspeaking, I do men's work, I
work one-on-one with people, Ido use plant-based medicines um
in a way that helps.
Um, I don't just use that, it islike a I look at that as one
(29:45):
tool to help a person kind ofopen up and be able to see
themselves from a differentperspective.
And um, I find that reallyvaluable.
And that was very helpful in myown journey to be able to kind
of crack the codes and to beable to start to move the energy
out of my body.
(30:05):
So yeah, that's a that's a lotof what I do.
I want to work withseven-year-olds, right?
Yeah, on a playground.
SPEAKER_01 (30:14):
Basically, yeah.
Uh yeah, that's good stuff.
That's very unique.
And I feel like it's definitelya service that is needed, uh,
especially in this day and age,um, when we're all dealing with
our ours and our ancestors, pasttraumas and and having to uh
step out of religion for thefirst time.
Some of us are first generationatheists, and you know, it's a
(30:37):
big, big change for us.
But if if someone wanted to geta hold of you and contact you,
uh, how would they do that?
SPEAKER_00 (30:44):
Right now, I mean, like Instagram is probably the
easiest.
Um, and that's where I do a lotof things.
I don't like to do things theway everybody tells you to do.
So, you know, like my just itdoesn't work that way.
And quite honestly, most of myclients either come from my
speaking or referrals.
I work with like a lot of execsand a lot of therapists.
(31:06):
Oddly, I have a lot oftherapists.
Um so, but Instagram is a reallyeasy way right now.
Um cool.
As I'm navigating, likeexploring how I want to express
myself in business and and how Iattract.
And so, yeah, that's how you canget a hold of me.
(31:27):
It's um go ahead.
SPEAKER_01 (31:29):
Yeah, go ahead.
SPEAKER_00 (31:30):
I was gonna say, yeah, it's Odyssey life
adventures.
So that's my handle.
Um because life is an odyssey,and I think when we really I
know for me now, when I if wecan look at it as an adventure
and we can really harness thefun within the the difficulty,
(31:52):
uh the difficult work, we we canfind more joy and typically
we'll find more peace.
SPEAKER_01 (31:59):
Good stuff.
Well, thank you, Eli, for comingon the show.
This was really good.
Thank you for sharing your storyand things that you've
discovered and sharing your workwith us.
I really appreciate you comingon the show.
SPEAKER_00 (32:12):
Yeah, absolutely.
Thanks for having me.
I mean, I think to the morepeople we can have that give
voice to healing theirrelationships with religion,
family, but most importantlythemselves andor God.
Um, you know, and likeovercoming that those we have to
do this one by one.
(32:33):
And the more that we each takethis on, I it is um I just have
a deep respect of humans andwhat we're going through right
now.
And it and I think it just takesshows like this and so many
different individuals to helpother people take control of
(32:53):
their lives and to be empoweredand to find a sense of love.
SPEAKER_01 (32:59):
I like that.
That's true.
We all need it.
SPEAKER_00 (33:03):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
So I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_01 (33:05):
Well, thanks, Z Life, for coming on the show.
You are listening to andwatching One the Valperts
Podcast.
See you soon.
This episode was produced byBaker Peak Media Productions.
For more information, visitbakerpeakmedia.com.
The following is a big complete media production.
SPEAKER_01 (00:19):
All right, and today is Monday, September the 13th.
Welcome to When the Bell BreaksPodcast.
I'm your host, Alexis Erlin, andour guest today is Eli Honeycat.
Eli, why don't you tell us alittle bit about yourself?
You kind of have an excitingstory.
SPEAKER_00 (00:35):
Ah, thanks, Alexis, for having me on.
Where do I start?
Well, I mean, really just a cultkid that just another cult kid.
Just another cult kid runningaround uh trying to figure out
life and uh and coming to aplace of really understanding
um, you know, myself and andreally what happened to me and
(01:01):
how I moved through all of that.
And so, you know, I grew up in ablended family.
So um my mother uh had my motherand father had both been married
previously and had children fromboth of those marriages, and my
mom um chose into the Jehovah'sWitness belief system, and then
(01:27):
uh met my father through herolder brother, and she brought
him into the Jehovah's Witness,you know, belief system, and
then I was their first child,and I have two more siblings
behind, um, you know, justbeneath me.
So there's eight of us.
So kind of a you know, largefamily, blended family, and
(01:50):
primarily I call New Mexico'sreally where I feel like I grew,
you know, like that's where myheart really kind of grew up.
I was born in Texas, but youknow, really raised and grew up
in in New Mexico.
And um yeah, a lot to to talkabout because it sounds like
there's a lot in there.
(02:11):
Yeah, yeah, there's a lot, but Ithink that the biggest piece
about my story and like when thebow breaks and my understanding
of sort of the trajectory oflike the show or the theme of it
is these moments when we startto really I look at ourselves
and what maybe we've gonethrough.
And you know, for a long time Ihad a lot of um attachment to my
(02:33):
story, and especially coming outqueer and then being kicked out
of the community and losingfamily.
You know, it was a great storyto tell.
And we love stories, humans lovestories, everything is a story,
um, but we can get reallyattached to them, and I found
that I was really attached to itfrom far more of a victim
standpoint, and really the otherpiece that was so fascinating to
(02:58):
me as I started to really lookat my personal development stuff
and spiritual was that one ofthe hardest things for me, and I
think many people who have leftreligious systems of belief and
mind control and manipulationhave really like who are they
(03:19):
outside of those structures, butmore importantly, how did that
impact how you're showing up inlife?
And although I thought it wasreally well adjusted and did
really well, you know, and kindof pulled myself up, um it was
really started to impact me,especially in relationships and
(03:41):
close relationships, um, becauseI didn't I was so unaware of uh
things that I was doing and theway that I was behaving, and
almost like the fear of reallyintimacy, and then like a big,
big thing for me is like wasbeing secret, you know, or
(04:03):
keeping like having nobody elsein my shit.
So it's really interesting.
I'm on a ton of podcasts, youknow.
I've had podcasts, I've sharedreally vulnerably, but that took
quite a bit of time to come to aplace of understanding the
impact of that programming andmind control and shifting from
(04:24):
victims to shifting the storyfrom it happening to me and
being stuck in it, which canreally bog us down and also
impact our lives and the waythat we're showing up in life,
to harnessing it andunderstanding the gifts in it,
(04:44):
but also how that really createdwas creating my reality and was
really impacting my life.
SPEAKER_01 (04:52):
And so I have I have a question.
When did you first start to feellike this isn't quite right?
Were you little or were you ateenager or were you an adult?
When did you start to feel likethis doesn't feel right?
SPEAKER_00 (05:10):
I'll answer that.
You know, what my answer isgonna come from where I stand
right now and the way that Ilook back at it.
SPEAKER_02 (05:16):
Sure.
SPEAKER_00 (05:16):
You know, the way that I look at we have to peel
this onion back of all the thethe maybe the ways that we look
at lives and the lenses that wehave on.
Now, the way I look at it andbeing able to to stand back with
a little bit of wisdom, I don'tthink I ever really bought into
it.
It's boring as and I cuss a lot,but it was so boring.
SPEAKER_02 (05:40):
Go for it.
SPEAKER_00 (05:41):
But in Job's with Jehovah's Witnesses, what's
really insidious is that whenyou look at so you know, our
brains are so malleable betweenzero and seven, and we're taking
on so much, and that's reallywhen we're in our creating like
our survival mode, like how dowe get our needs met based on
(06:03):
food, feeling secure, feelingloved.
And so, you know, I was broughtup in a family that had a lot of
kind of chaos because there wasa lot of kids.
My parents made a cross-countrymove, my dad went from having a
job to being a business owner.
You know, that's a lot of chaos,yeah, big changes.
(06:24):
And for a little kid to takethat in, now I understand, like,
oh, like he was, and I referredto it in kind of a third person,
but like he really had to gothrough a lot, and not only on
top of that, Jehovah's Witnessesreally teach a lot of fear and
removal of self.
(06:45):
So the thing about their uh whatdo I want to say?
My way that they control is toremove the sense of self and
they keep you hyper-vigilantbecause you're always looking at
yourself as if you're wrong,right?
SPEAKER_01 (07:01):
Yeah, you're always second-guessing yourself,
always, yep.
SPEAKER_00 (07:05):
But I didn't realize that that that's where had got
inculcated into me when I wasreally young.
And so when I look back, what Ireally have become aware of was
that I learned that in order tobe safe and have my needs met,
because my other siblings werekind of all over the place, and
(07:27):
I could sense that there wereissues, even though maybe
consciously that as a child Ididn't know.
But my next oldest brother, whois 10 years older, was like a
rebel, and so what I do really,yeah.
So what I took on was this likeI could see how it impacted my
(07:47):
parents, and so it's like, well,I don't want to be that, I want
to be successful and or and tobe the good boy because we all
want to be the good boy, wedon't want to be the bad boy or
the good girl, not the bad boy,bad girl.
And so I don't think I everbought into it, but I think I
learned that playing this roleand creating this character that
(08:08):
could play into it was will keepme safe, and it would keep me
what I thought was love, right?
SPEAKER_01 (08:17):
Yeah, my kid said something really interesting,
interesting to me one day.
I was talking with my son, andone day he he told me when we
were talking about, oh, rememberwhen we used to go to this
church and remember when we usedto do that, and my son said
something really funny.
He said, I always knew it wasbullshit, mom.
(08:37):
But the funny thing was is thatI always kind of knew it was
bullshit too.
But you know, the uh the ideathat you have to keep your safe
yourself safe is so much bigger,and you learn that very early
on.
I grew up very much the sameway, very fear-based, uh, very
scary religion.
And so you learn at a very youngage, you have to adapt because
(09:01):
this is what keeps you safe, oryou think it's what's keeping
you safe.
Yeah, you think this group isyou you don't believe it, but
also at the same time, you stillbelieve a lot of the things that
you've been conditioned tobelieve, especially when you're
a kid.
There's still a lot of it you dobelieve, even though there's
some of it you don't.
Um, so yeah, it's a veryconfusing time for a kid, I
(09:22):
assume.
SPEAKER_00 (09:24):
Yeah, because you're getting these mixed messages,
you know, and then I went toschool and I was the weirdo, you
know, because I had to I had tostep up and be like, at the
time, you know, you stillsaluted the flat, you know, did
the pledge of allegiance inschool, and we we were Jehovah's
Witnesses remain neutral so theydon't pledge of allegiance.
So at five years old, you know,I had to take a stance and be
(09:46):
like, because my parents werelike, you have to do this,
because what I heard was pledgeof allegiance, death.
Yeah, you know, basically, likethat's the messaging.
And so it's like, well, I can'tdo that because then I'm dead.
And and the same aroundbirthdays and all that stuff.
So you're totally confused, andthen you move into this next
(10:09):
stage.
So that the next stage when Ireally knew something was off
was you know, for between abouteight and 14 is when a lot of
things start to happen for us,and we puberty and our awareness
of ourselves, our body, others'bodies, those type of things.
And I knew that I was different.
I didn't have the wording, or Ijust knew that I had a different
(10:31):
perspective than a lot of otherpeople because I didn't like
girls.
I had a lot of it wasn't thatthey didn't have cooties, I
thought that they were great tobe friends with, but it was, you
know, that awareness started tocome about, but it was so clear
also because you know, I heardthe messaging all the time that
(10:52):
this was evil and wrong, andthat it's a choice and that you
shouldn't live like that.
SPEAKER_01 (10:58):
And yeah, yeah, same, same.
So can you walk me through alittle bit about your like how
your relationship with yourparents is like or what it was
like back then, maybe?
SPEAKER_00 (11:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, I I the sad, I thinkthe really sad part of it is and
what I I find sad for a lot ofhumanity is the loss of you
know, the inability for us tohave vulnerable conversations
(11:32):
and real real conversations thatspeak truth with family,
especially.
And I know there's a lot ofpeople that have great
relationships, but I didn't knowmy parents, you know, as as
individuals, I knew them asauthority figures, the rule
makers, you know.
Um they I the adults in thehouse, you know, yeah, the
(11:56):
adults in the house, the oneswho are supposed to feed you and
care for you.
But I when I really think aboutit, like um I ended up being a
lot of emotional support for mymom, which um, you know, now
that I'm really aware of, I'mlike, I understand that part
that was that was that role thatkind of was playing out.
(12:18):
But I wouldn't say I really knewthem as individuals at all
because they were as they theywould not talk about their past
life, you know, their previouslives before Jehovah's
Witnesses.
And we were really removed andisolated from our extended
families.
So I didn't grow up around, Ididn't know the stories.
Um, and I think the whole time,especially as a teenager, I got
(12:42):
my driver's license very earlyon, and I started working, and I
just did anything to not be inthe house or be around them.
SPEAKER_01 (12:51):
Anything too, yeah.
Same.
SPEAKER_00 (12:53):
It's like, you know, and I wasn't a bad kid, I didn't
really do a lot of anythingreally crazy because I still had
that fear of like God.
But um, but I didn't know them,and and in fact, um, I think the
what I look back and it's it iswhat it is, you know.
My now that my dad, my dad hasbeen gone, I think almost 10
(13:16):
years.
Um and I when I found out he waspassing away, I had not seen him
in probably like like 13 years.
And um, you know, I got a halfan hour with him totally alone.
He was at home in hospice and hewas in mentally, you know, like
(13:37):
we could have a really goodconversation.
And he I was going on a six-weektrip that I had already planned
to New Zealand, and I was gonnabe gone when he would pass.
Like we knew, like we knew thathe was gonna go.
And I told him, I'm like, I can,you know, I can cancel, I can be
here with mom, you know, I canyou know, I'll do any of those
(13:59):
kind of things that you need.
And and he looked at me and hetold me to have a seat, and he's
like, nah, he's like, I want youto go live your life.
Go, go live.
I love you.
He's like, I'm at peace.
Um and then we got to have, Ireally asked him some questions
about his youth and like himbecause he actually was a really
(14:20):
cool dude.
Um, and he worked really hard,and so I have built a very
different relationship with himnow because I see his wisdom and
I see what he was teaching us,and I just didn't have the
capacity to want to fuckinglisten to him when I was a kid.
SPEAKER_01 (14:37):
Sure.
SPEAKER_00 (14:38):
And and I think it was also skewed by the way that
it was delivered, but I think hewas doing his best to teach us
some real truths.
SPEAKER_01 (14:48):
And if you'd like to be a guest, send us an email,
wtbb podcast at gmail.com.
Back to the show.
SPEAKER_00 (14:57):
But you know, my mom and I had been estranged for
better part of now, I mean whatuh like since I'm gonna go.
Yeah, I don't even know.
And we had a conversation maybethree years ago where she really
opened up for the first time,you know, and she's like, I I
(15:19):
really apologize.
There was a pretty major eventthat happened when I was 14 that
was really awful, and it dealtwith the Jehovah's Witnesses and
some of the elders in thecongregation, you know, and
she's like, I look back at that,she's like, I think I'll live
with that the rest of my life.
And she's like, when thathappened, I I couldn't be a
mother to you.
(15:39):
Um, and I'm so sorry becauseshe's like, I didn't know how to
handle my own emotions and Ididn't know how to be there for
you.
And she's like, and you know, Iwant you to know your father
kept telling me to leave youalone and just let you be.
And I I stopped and I was like,What can you tell me what you're
saying?
Like, what is that actually?
SPEAKER_01 (15:59):
Yeah, what does that mean?
SPEAKER_00 (16:01):
And she's like, Well, I he was he was telling me
to just let you live your lifeto be gay, because he we both
knew you were gay from the timeyou were a baby.
We knew it wasn't a choice, weknew it was you, we had always
known it.
She's like, but I couldn't letit go.
And he kept telling me to, and Ithink that really impacted their
(16:21):
marriage because things reallychanged, and I just wasn't aware
of all that stuff.
So, you know, they had to dealwith a lot of those burdens.
And fortunately, you know, Ithink we're in a place where I
believe where, you know, as wereveal who we are and we do this
personal development and we getto know ourselves, we can really
heal ourselves, not just uhthrough the mind, but through
(16:44):
the energetics in our body tomove that trauma out of our body
and to reshape the story and tobe in a far more empowered,
compassionate, unconditionalloving of myself first, and then
unconditional love of them,right?
And like your mother or mymother, or anybody else that's
listening to this, you'redealing with their
(17:06):
seven-year-old.
Yeah, for the most part, theirseven-year-old was raising you
because the 50% of our brains,uh, the way we look at things,
belief structures, even the waywe see color, the way we hear,
the way we taste, everything iskind of programmed in between
zero and seven.
And so we're looking atgenerations of passed down
(17:28):
beliefs where ultimately, likeyour mom, my mom, did not have
the capacity to heal orunderstand that seven-year-old,
right, in their relationship.
So for your mom or mine, what Irealized was that it had nothing
(17:49):
to do with that she didn't loveme.
Right.
What was triggering for her wasthat in her body and in her
mind, that is if she acceptedme, that was death to her.
SPEAKER_01 (18:00):
Yeah, or death to me.
Yeah, or death to you, right?
Yeah, it's just fear.
SPEAKER_00 (18:05):
Yeah, and so then it's like, oh I how do I deal
with this?
And I don't know how to dealwith this because their whole
world would crumble for the mostpart, right?
SPEAKER_01 (18:14):
Yep, yep.
I knew what I yeah, I struggledwith cutting it off from my
family, and I knew what I whatit was going to.
I mean, I still had no ideabecause I hadn't actually gone
through it, but I knew that itwas gonna be rough for everyone.
SPEAKER_00 (18:29):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (18:30):
So it's when you cut things off, was it kind of like
uh was there sort of like anincident that kicked kicked it
off, or was it sort of a gradualthing?
How did that kind of happen?
SPEAKER_00 (18:43):
Oh, I was dragging my feet.
The and the universe made ithappen to be honest.
Like I looked back on like, Iit's like sometimes that
happens, right?
It kind of has to blow up in ourface to to actually make the
change.
But uh there's really two bigthings that that happened for me
was that um and I had struggledwith trying to live out the
(19:08):
character of being this goodJehovah's Witness boy, um, while
just also living a double lifebecause I just it it was just
inevitable.
Um, but there really came a timewhere I felt a crossroads and I
could feel it.
Like it was just I really feltlike I only had two choices.
(19:28):
It was either choose to be aJehovah's Witness and totally
cut that part off, you know, cutmyself off, get married, and
just go with it, or accept thatI was gay.
And I had always known I wasgay, but there's something
really different when youfinally accept it within
(19:49):
yourself and you really look atit, um, or queer, whatever.
Yeah, and um I when I chose Thatand I was just like it was on a
trampoline in South Dakota inthe Black Hills.
I still remember, and I'm justlike looking up at the stars,
and yeah, I was at a Jehovah'sWitness like get together with
(20:12):
some friends, and I couldn't doit, and I was laying out there,
and it was like you have achoice, and I'm like, I can't do
this anymore.
I did that's I can't.
And when I accepted that, lifereally started to change for me.
But what happened was I gotouted because some Jehovah's
Witness Jehovah's Witnesses wereeverywhere, they knew me.
(20:33):
And um oddly enough, the firstguy that I really met and dated
was an ex-Job's Witness.
And it just got found out reallyquickly.
And so, like that really justshort sort of ended everything
because then my parents foundout, and the elders and the
congregation and all it justblew up.
SPEAKER_01 (20:57):
So, did they sort of excommunicate you like formally,
or did you just sort of walkstep back from them?
SPEAKER_00 (21:04):
I refused to go in, I knew what was going to happen.
SPEAKER_01 (21:08):
So you basically got invited to to an
excommunication.
You're like, nah, I think I'lltoday.
SPEAKER_00 (21:13):
I'm gonna opt out of that.
SPEAKER_01 (21:15):
Like bother, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:18):
Not today.
Um, yeah, that's cute.
I really appreciate it.
Thanks for the invite, but uh,I'm not available.
Um and so then that really justset my life on a whole different
course because I lost allcommunity and I really had no
friends outside of Joe'sWitnesses.
So it was like, I didn't knowwho I was.
SPEAKER_01 (21:41):
You are listening to When the Bow Breaks podcast.
To support the show, visitbuymeacoffee.com slash WTB pod.
You can buy us a cup of coffeeor two or ten.
Ten cups of coffee sponsors anentire WTB episode.
So if you'd like to support theshow, visit buymeacoffee.com
(22:02):
slash WTB pod.
Back to the show.
Did you feel misunderstood bythe mainstream?
You're like, first I feelmisunderstood by my religion.
Now I'm away from my religion.
Now I feel misunderstood by themainstream because I'm was I
grew up Christian and I feltvery awkward, you know,
socially.
Did you feel like that as a cultkid?
SPEAKER_00 (22:24):
Yeah, yeah, because I wasn't really big in into I
was not a big drinker, you know,I didn't really drink, I had
never done drugs.
Um, I never celebratedbirthdays, I had never done
holidays, and so like I wastrying them out and for in fact,
like the first Christmas I did,it was so overwhelming that ever
(22:45):
since I've just don't do it.
SPEAKER_01 (22:47):
Rarely.
Yeah, because that is a bigthing.
If you're not familiar withChristmas, it's a it's a big
thing.
No, it was exhausting.
SPEAKER_00 (22:55):
It was I didn't like it.
Um, and it felt it felt forced,and that was a big thing for me.
Is I'm like, this just doesn'tfeel natural.
I don't care about the thebiblical beliefs or any of those
kind of things, it just feltforced, it didn't feel real to
me.
Um, but I think the big thingswere I didn't know how to be in
relationship, I didn't know howto make like friends, but you
(23:18):
know, we we uh look, there's alot of non-ethical cults, and
there's a lot of cults.
SPEAKER_01 (23:25):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_00 (23:25):
Yeah, cult is basically shared language, you
know, shared kind of community.
So you could take, I live inDenver, so I look I always
equate this like Denver Broncos,a diehard Denver Bronco fan, but
it's a cult, they have thingsthey talk about, it's not bad,
right?
But um, you know, moving intothe queer community, then it was
like, okay, well, we these arethe things we do, and this is
(23:48):
how you be queer.
And I was so used to adaptingthat I suddenly was like, Well,
I guess this is how you'resupposed to be.
So I'm gonna get on board withthis shit and I'm gonna do it
really well.
And I did it really well.
Um, but it it still didn't feelaligned, and I always felt just
(24:09):
like, how many labels am I gonnahave to stick on myself before I
find out who I am?
Yeah, I hated it.
Yeah.
Um, and then that kind of blewapart too.
SPEAKER_01 (24:17):
So yeah, right.
Yeah.
Did you have did you kind ofimplode your sense of self a
little bit?
Did you have a little bit of anidentity crisis?
Did you really struggle?
SPEAKER_00 (24:26):
Yeah, it was really hard because I didn't.
Well, one of the things inrelationships, like Jehovah's
Witnesses always taught thatlike when you date, like if you
date, like if you're going ondates, that actually means that
you're on the path to engagementto marriage.
SPEAKER_01 (24:44):
Right.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:45):
So the poor guy that I first dated, not the first
real boyfriend that I got at itwith, but I went on a couple of
dates with this guy, and I feelI look back and I'm like, oh my
God, Eli.
Like, no wonder he ran.
Because I was just like, he, Ireally liked him, and then he
liked me, and we went on, youknow, it had been, I don't know,
I don't can't even remember howlong, but I was like, This is my
(25:07):
boyfriend, this is who I'm gonnamarry, and like this is great.
SPEAKER_01 (25:10):
I'm like super excited, and then he was like,
I'm out, and I'm like, It's likeso yeah, did you feel like you
were overprepared for for orthink you were over prepared for
marriage?
I guess a young adult because ofyour face, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um, that's funny.
Uh, because yeah, it's same.
I I won't uh disclose too muchabout myself, but yeah, you get
(25:33):
because you know we're groomedand we're conditioned to be a
certain way from a very youngage.
And then when we hit thosecertain, you know, milestones in
our personal lives, it's we havethis incentive to go and do the
thing that we were told we hadto do.
SPEAKER_02 (25:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (25:49):
And but it's not always the best thing for us.
SPEAKER_02 (25:54):
No.
SPEAKER_01 (25:54):
So can you tell me a little bit about what you do
now?
What's your life like now?
Like how long has it been sinceyou've been out of the cold?
I'm I'm guessing like 15, 20years about maybe.
SPEAKER_00 (26:06):
I think it was probably really probably 20 plus
years now.
Yeah.
I built a really successfulcareer in banking and finance,
and then that just was also, Iwas starting to look around, and
this was a little bit past whenmy dad had passed.
Um, and I just was like, what amI doing?
(26:30):
Like, this doesn't feel I lookedat all my peers, right?
And I was one of the youngerones in the job at the time,
like I had gotten it reallyyoung, a pretty high position.
And so as I looked at all mypeers, all my peers were 15
years plus and had been doingthis job for like you know, like
a long time.
Yeah, and I'm like, I've beendoing this job 10 years, and I
(26:53):
am cannot fucking do this.
Like, I just started looking atthem and I'm like, this can't be
life.
And I started questioning, and Ihad really started to dive into
more of like how I had beenimpacted.
So, like, I had gone to a cultrecovery therapist, started
really my personal developmentuncovering, and that just led me
through a whole differentlandscape of coming to really
(27:17):
know myself and um askingmyself, like for the first time,
like, who am I?
Who who am I really outside ofall these characters and beliefs
and all that stuff?
And as I started to really getdown to that, I started to be
able to heal, but also revealparts of me where I'm like, this
(27:38):
is more of who I really am.
And this, these are the thingsthat I enjoy, and this is how my
life, these are the things I'mreally good at.
So I now I do um publicspeaking, so I speak a lot about
lenses and perspectives.
Um, and I talk about and helporganizations or um groups
really be able to take a very umhumanistic approach.
(28:02):
So everything I do is reallylike based on like very human,
very real, but also helpingpeople understand and start to
peel back and get curious aboutwho they are.
So I do that through publicspeaking.
Um I work with um a lot, I workwith men um specifically, and
(28:25):
oftentimes queer men, but a lotof men, and just helping them to
understand masculinity, um,understand how to feel.
So a lot of my stuff, uh, thework that I also do is all
around just helping people learnhow to feel, how to understand
their emotions, because theprimary language that we were
(28:48):
never taught was our energeticlanguage.
The vibe we talk about the vibe,yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (28:57):
People say aura, you know, whatever.
SPEAKER_00 (28:59):
Yeah, it doesn't feel good.
You know, we we use thesecomments, the these thoughts,
but for the most part, um, yeah,I help people feel back the
layers and reveal who they areso that they can really start to
not only heal themselves, butbuild a relationship with
themselves where they can seethat like I don't have to carry
(29:21):
these stories, I don't have tocarry this trauma.
I don't need to like I can letgo of it, but it's it's not
easy.
And so, yeah, I do publicspeaking, I do men's work, I
work one-on-one with people, Ido use plant-based medicines um
in a way that helps.
Um, I don't just use that, it islike a I look at that as one
(29:45):
tool to help a person kind ofopen up and be able to see
themselves from a differentperspective.
And um, I find that reallyvaluable.
And that was very helpful in myown journey to be able to kind
of crack the codes and to beable to start to move the energy
out of my body.
(30:05):
So yeah, that's a that's a lotof what I do.
I want to work withseven-year-olds, right?
Yeah, on a playground.
SPEAKER_01 (30:14):
Basically, yeah.
Uh yeah, that's good stuff.
That's very unique.
And I feel like it's definitelya service that is needed, uh,
especially in this day and age,um, when we're all dealing with
our ours and our ancestors, pasttraumas and and having to uh
step out of religion for thefirst time.
Some of us are first generationatheists, and you know, it's a
(30:37):
big, big change for us.
But if if someone wanted to geta hold of you and contact you,
uh, how would they do that?
SPEAKER_00 (30:44):
Right now, I mean, like Instagram is probably the
easiest.
Um, and that's where I do a lotof things.
I don't like to do things theway everybody tells you to do.
So, you know, like my just itdoesn't work that way.
And quite honestly, most of myclients either come from my
speaking or referrals.
I work with like a lot of execsand a lot of therapists.
(31:06):
Oddly, I have a lot oftherapists.
Um so, but Instagram is a reallyeasy way right now.
Um cool.
As I'm navigating, likeexploring how I want to express
myself in business and and how Iattract.
And so, yeah, that's how you canget a hold of me.
(31:27):
It's um go ahead.
SPEAKER_01 (31:29):
Yeah, go ahead.
SPEAKER_00 (31:30):
I was gonna say, yeah, it's Odyssey life
adventures.
So that's my handle.
Um because life is an odyssey,and I think when we really I
know for me now, when I if wecan look at it as an adventure
and we can really harness thefun within the the difficulty,
(31:52):
uh the difficult work, we we canfind more joy and typically
we'll find more peace.
SPEAKER_01 (31:59):
Good stuff.
Well, thank you, Eli, for comingon the show.
This was really good.
Thank you for sharing your storyand things that you've
discovered and sharing your workwith us.
I really appreciate you comingon the show.
SPEAKER_00 (32:12):
Yeah, absolutely.
Thanks for having me.
I mean, I think to the morepeople we can have that give
voice to healing theirrelationships with religion,
family, but most importantlythemselves andor God.
Um, you know, and likeovercoming that those we have to
do this one by one.
(32:33):
And the more that we each takethis on, I it is um I just have
a deep respect of humans andwhat we're going through right
now.
And it and I think it just takesshows like this and so many
different individuals to helpother people take control of
(32:53):
their lives and to be empoweredand to find a sense of love.
SPEAKER_01 (32:59):
I like that.
That's true.
We all need it.
SPEAKER_00 (33:03):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
So I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_01 (33:05):
Well, thanks, Z Life, for coming on the show.
You are listening to andwatching One the Valperts
Podcast.
See you soon.
This episode was produced byBaker Peak Media Productions.
For more information, visitbakerpeakmedia.com.
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