December 11, 2020 • 42 mins
Although AC is no longer on the show, you can still listen to Turn up the AC's "Christmas Gifts" episode
www.acfisherpod.com
Grow Your Own Candy Canes Pin
https://www.pinterest.com/aarralynn/wtbb-holiday/
Watch our LIVE Hot Cocoa Video edition on our youtube channel and subscribe!
https://youtu.be/o5MJ_KvoPrs?feature=shared
https://buymeacoffee.com/wtbbpod
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
The following is the Kingfisher Media Podcast.
SPEAKER_02 (00:12):
Hey WTBB family, this is AC.
This episode's a littledifferent from what you've come
to expect on this show.
As many of you know, Alexis andI recently hosted our very first
live show for this year's PodVCom event.
If you're interested in watchingthe full video version, you can
find the link on our Facebookpage.
For the rest of you, we'vepulled the audio from that so
(00:32):
you can listen while you're onthe go.
Please enjoy our 2020 Hot Cocoaedition of When the Bow Breaks,
and as always, remember to like,follow, and share.
Happy holidays, welcome.
SPEAKER_01 (00:58):
My name is Alexis Erlin, and you are watching When
the Bow Breaks podcast, uh, liveHot Cocoa edition.
Uh, welcome here from all of usat Pod Vom and here at When the
Bow Breaks, which is aKingfisher Media production.
SPEAKER_02 (01:13):
I'm AC Fisher, and all of us here at Kingfisher
Media would like to express oursincere gratitude to our to our
listeners and everyone whofollows us on social media.
We have a lot of surprises foryou coming up in the next year.
So please stay tuned.
SPEAKER_01 (01:28):
Yeah, and remember to like and follow us on all of
our media platforms.
You can find us on Instagram andFacebook and Twitter, I believe.
Uh, and if you're a new listenerto the show or you'd like to
listen, you can visit us on ourwebsite, wtbbod.com, and uh as
well as all major podcastplatforms.
SPEAKER_02 (01:50):
And as always, if you happen to find a platform
where you can't find one of ourshows, let us know and we'll do
everything we can to make surethat we're available where you
choose to listen.
And if you'd like to contact us,we'd love hearing from you, even
if it's just a quick hello.
SPEAKER_01 (02:06):
Yeah.
And if you'd like to contact us,you can direct message either
one of us on Facebook or theshow Facebook, uh, or you can
send an email to wtbb podcast atgmail.com.
SPEAKER_02 (02:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (02:20):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (02:21):
So this is a a really special day for us
because we've never hosted alive show before, obviously.
SPEAKER_01 (02:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (02:29):
But we we are excited for everyone who's
joining us here on thisadventure.
Um, there may be a few bumpsalong the way, but please bear
with us.
We're doing our best.
SPEAKER_01 (02:39):
Yes, if we disappear for a minute, don't worry, we're
coming back because that's we'vebeen practicing some vanishing
episodes up until now.
But yeah, so far so good.
Um so yeah, we've never hosted alive show before.
This is our first live showwe're hosting, which is very
exciting.
Um, some of the guests andlisteners that we've had this
(03:01):
past year, who I hope arewatching right now, um, they've
really become like family to usuh throughout this year.
SPEAKER_02 (03:09):
Yeah, which I find amazing considering that when
the bow breaks is all aboutfamily estrangement and broken
relationships.
SPEAKER_01 (03:16):
Right, right.
Um, people who have experienceda form of family estrangement
call in the show to uh talkabout their experiences and
their feelings, and um uh withlosing one or more contact with
one or more family members.
And while we were sharing ourexperiences and feelings with
each other, we unknowinglyformed a unique bond of strength
(03:39):
and a sense of family that maybe different than what we're
used to, but it's it's beenyeah, it's it's been really a
big win for us.
SPEAKER_02 (03:51):
We feel extremely fortunate to have met all the
people we've spoken to in thelast year and a half.
And while we've shared some ofour deepest trauma and pain,
we've also had the fortune of uhyou know hearing stories of
healing, triumph, and even a fewreconnection stories.
(04:12):
Some of these were made possibleby the show, and that's
something that we're bothreally, really proud of.
One of our main goals is alwaysto help mend broken
relationships.
You know, we also we also striveto provide a safe platform for
(04:35):
guests and to facilitateunderstanding and perspective.
And we plan to maintain theseideas as our reach continues to
grow.
SPEAKER_01 (04:46):
But more on that later.
Let's get into this special hotcocoa edition, starting with
what we're drinking, which is abig nice cup of hot cocoa.
I don't know if you can see it.
I don't know.
It's got a cute little candycane in it.
Oops, and it melted.
That's how hot it is.
SPEAKER_02 (05:02):
Yeah, you got a melted candy cane, and Mike has
got a cute little red Christmassweater on it.
SPEAKER_01 (05:08):
Oh, it's cozy.
unknown (05:10):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (05:11):
The candy cane um is is actually something that I I
wanted to share with everyone.
Um, we were talking about familytraditions the other day, and
we're thinking, oh, you know,what's something that we can
share with our listeners?
Um, like a nice family holidaytradition.
When I became estranged, um Ididn't really know which family
(05:32):
holiday traditions I wanted tocontinue with my family.
So I didn't just walk away frommy family.
I walked away from my wholeentire religious community, uh,
which was very traumatic,actually.
And I struggled with a lot ofthe traditions, especially
around the holiday times.
And so I decided, well, what'ssomething new that I can do to
(05:54):
celebrate with my family?
And so I found this cute littleuh Pinterest or this little
thing on Pinterest uh calledGrow Your Own Candy Canes.
And I thought it was reallycute.
So you start with, okay, here'smy little cute little Christmas
tree I got the dollar store.
Um I also got this glass jar andyou fill it with sugar.
(06:15):
Right now it's got little pinecones in it, which I thought
were cute too.
Um, but you fill it with sugarand you plant some candy cane
seeds, which um you could getlike um tic-tacks or like you
know, peppermint patties orsomething like that.
And you plant them in the sugar,and then Santa comes and spreads
(06:36):
his magic, and then in themorning, so Santa comes and in
the morning you have candycanes.
It's a really fun, geeky holidaytradition.
But my kids, even though they'reolder now, they love it.
And it was just one of thosethings that kind of helped me
cope, helped give me newtraditions and new memories to
(06:56):
make with my family, even thoughthe structure had changed and um
which was kind of scary, even alittle bit.
But anyway, it's really fun.
So I just wanted to share it allwith you.
So if you want to learn how togrow your own candy canes, you
can check out my uh Pinterest,which is under Alexis Ara Lynn.
And um, I pinned something therethat you can find that's called
(07:18):
Grow Your Own Candy Canes.
So visit me on Pinterest, y'all.
Do you have any any uh funlittle holiday uh traditions
that you want to share witheveryone, AC?
SPEAKER_02 (07:31):
Yeah, actually, I I think it's kind of interesting
that you developed a a newtradition for your family to
sort of help cope with the lossof you know your people.
I kind of cope with the loss ofmy people in a different way,
and that was through you knowembracing a tradition that you
(07:51):
know my parents had started whenI was you know 13 years old or
so.
And you know, I I did a wholeepisode uh talking about that
story on Turn Up the AC.
So anybody who wants to hear allthe details can check it out
there.
It's a great episode.
Yeah, but the the short versionis we didn't have a Christmas
(08:13):
tree, we didn't have anything tohang on a tree, even if we did
have one.
So my parents improvised.
My dad just cut a branch off atree in the yard and stuck it
that in the pot in the livingroom, and we made decorations by
wrapping up matchbooks, orsorry, not matchbooks,
matchboxes with festive wrappingpaper and hanging those on the
(08:35):
tree.
I don't know if you can sort ofsee this, but I made one for
everybody to see.
It just like a little tiny gift,and you know, you just hang that
with a paper clip or a littlepiece of string on the tree.
And yeah, that's sort of that'ssort of my deal.
SPEAKER_01 (08:50):
Yeah, so everyone, I'm gonna plug that too.
Yeah, it's called Turn Up theAC.
Um, what do you remember thename of the episode?
Because it's really good.
Um, my kids request to hear it,uh, you know, as one of their
Christmas stories that they liketo listen to this time of year.
So it's it's been nice.
SPEAKER_02 (09:07):
Um, I've done so many episodes, I've lost track
of all the titles, but I thinkit was called Christmas Gifts.
SPEAKER_01 (09:13):
Yes, I think it is called Christmas Gifts,
something really obvious likethat.
But it's a great episode.
Turn up the AC.
You should definitely,definitely check it out.
Um, so back to this show.
So this is about estrangement,um, which is essentially the
loss of an existing relationshipthrough physical and or
(09:35):
emotional distance.
So what did you knowestrangement look like for you,
I guess, when when this wholething started for you?
SPEAKER_02 (09:49):
It was kind of uh a different emotional experience
for me.
You know, um with when you whenyou get used to being surrounded
by certain people, you know,whether or not these people
provide a comfortableenvironment, you still become
very used to having them around.
And I guess if the comfort isn'tin the relationship, the comfort
(10:11):
is in the familiarity of thesituation.
And losing that, it kind of putme into like a a bit of a
tailspin.
I wasn't really sure how I fit,where I fit, or even entirely
who I was, and especially withlike this time of year, the
(10:32):
holiday season, it was a very,very lonely time.
SPEAKER_01 (10:36):
Right.
Yeah, when when I becameestranged, yeah, I was really
depressed and I had a lot ofgrief, like just crying, like
all the time, you know.
Um I had experienced like publicshaming and uh smear campaigns,
(10:56):
you know, things like that.
Um, the loss, yeah, like yousaid, the the loss of identity,
because you know, I not justwalking away from my family, but
the you know, the religiousgroup too, and I didn't really
know who I was.
It was really awkward.
And um, so it makes you feellike you you played this
character, you know, all growingup, and then you step away, and
(11:19):
now all of a sudden you'resupposed to be yourself and you
don't really know who that is.
And you know, that can be amajor challenge when you're in
the your 30s and you know you'remarried with a bunch of kids and
you're like, who am I?
You know, it's awkward.
SPEAKER_02 (11:33):
Um no, it's it's a really difficult thing to go
through.
I mean, there's you know,there's a there's a lot of
downsides of the situation.
I mean, like you say, you kindof lose sight of who you are.
It's like you like you'rewalking away from this character
you've been playing, you don'tremember how to play real
authentic you anymore.
(11:54):
And at the same time, whileyou're trying to find your
footing inside of your ownheadspace, you're dealing with
this complex uh uh array ofemotion.
You know, I I know that I dealtwith a lot of you know feelings
of grief.
You know, I had lost thesepeople that I cared about.
(12:17):
I felt isolated.
You know, it's um when when youget used to having a certain
support system, whether or notthey're a productive support
system, it's it's difficult tofind yourself without all of
that.
And uh just to take a briefpause here, it looks like we've
(12:38):
lost Alexis temporarily.
She will be back, don't worry.
Um, dealing with this grief andisolation, it did send me into
you know, like a fairlydifficult period of of
depression.
I wasn't really sure how to dealwith any of this.
(12:59):
It was completely unfamiliar,unfamiliar territory.
The the whole experience oflosing family and friends, and
um for me at the same time asthe family estrangement started,
I was also dealing with a crisisof faith.
I had lost a lot of the supportsystem that I had become
(13:20):
accustomed to through the churchenvironment.
And all these things combined,it just it created like an
overwhelming trauma.
I mean, there was me dealingwith a mountain of hurt and
confusion.
And, you know, like Alexis hadalluded to just a little bit
earlier, you know, the the thepublic shaming and the smear
(13:41):
campaigns.
I mean, these were unexpectedelements.
I expected to miss my mom and mysiblings.
I didn't expect to find myselfin a situation where I was
missing other family members andmissing friends, people that had
always been there suddenly werenot.
(14:02):
It was um almost like a a bunchof dominoes started falling
over.
You know, you lose a couple ofpeople that are right at the
center of your existence, andyou think, hey, not a big deal.
I can cope without one or two ofthem, but trying to cope without
all of them that's uh kind of ait's a bigger thing.
(14:25):
Um one of the other kind of likeunexpected downsides that there
was really no way to prepare forwas uh it was almost like family
friends uh felt compelled toretaliate against me without
even um uh understanding the insand outs of the situation.
(14:45):
It seemed like these people allwanted to uh present themselves
as author authorities on uh thedetails of my life.
And you know, I think like manypeople that have dealt with
estrangement, we don't uh hatethe people that we're isolated
from.
We we still love them very much,we may even hold the like a fair
(15:08):
amount of respect for them.
So because of of these things,we don't really want to uh smear
them back.
We want to protect the integrityof of their image, we want to
make sure that you know we speakkindly, we want to take the high
road, things uh uh of thisnature.
(15:30):
So as tempting as it is whensomebody is besmirching our good
name, we don't ever want to endup in a position where our only
means of defending ourselves isto talk smack about the other
half of a difficult situation.
(15:53):
And I think uh when we don'tjump into the fray with a whole
bunch of nasty talk of our own,uh the people that are attacking
us, they they almost feelempowered and and and validated
in their approach because hey,like, look, this person doesn't
have anything to say in theirown defense, they must know that
they're wrong, and they kind ofthey almost want to dial up the
(16:14):
pressure on us, uh which canbecome extremely overwhelming.
We don't need all this otherstuff.
It looks like we've got Alexisback here.
So what what what you missedwhile you were lost down the uh
(16:36):
the the the black hole of lossof internet connection?
I just sort of finished up goingthrough everything associated
with the uh with the cons offinding oneself estranged,
right?
SPEAKER_01 (16:49):
Right.
So yeah, so there's a lot ofcons.
Sounds pretty depressing.
Um, so why did we want to make ashow about this, considering all
of those things?
SPEAKER_02 (17:06):
Yeah, like this is actually like a really, really
common question.
People are like, wow, this isreally, really heavy subject
material.
Why do you guys want a podcastabout it?
That does not sound fun.
SPEAKER_00 (17:16):
It doesn't sound fun.
SPEAKER_02 (17:17):
It's it's weird, like it is rarely, but yeah,
yeah, it doesn't sound fun, butthe relationships we make, the
conversations we have, I mean,it's it's amazing how much
laughter and good times you canhave when you're unpacking
really ugly situations withcomplete strangers.
SPEAKER_01 (17:33):
Right.
And I didn't want it just to bea show where people just called
in and just you know cried abouttheir trauma.
It's like that's definitely partof it, but I wanted the show to
be a resource.
There weren't that many podcastsout there, not that I could have
that I look, I couldn't find anypodcasts about estrangement at
all.
And I thought, well, maybethat's just something I could
(17:53):
do, you know.
And I was like, oh, well, if ittakes off, if we work hard at
it, it can be a resource.
And that's really uh why Idecided to go ahead and do it.
So it's been it'll be like twoyears on on December 31st when I
first started working on thepodcast.
So that's pretty exciting.
So two years, happy anniversary,WTVB.
SPEAKER_02 (18:15):
No, and you know, like it's I I think it's a great
resource.
I mean, that's how I becameinvolved with the show.
I was the first guest on thefirst episode, uh-huh.
And I sort of have stuck aroundever since.
SPEAKER_00 (18:26):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (18:27):
I mean, for me, I I was finding it difficult coping
with a difficult familysituation and without like
having a real support system,and um finding somebody to talk
to who had experienced a similarthing through the show really
was a huge part of my healingprocess.
SPEAKER_01 (18:48):
Yeah, and with that, we found, you know, going
through this process and talkingwith other people about this,
you know, we found that there isalso a lot of pros.
There can be pros toestrangement.
Um, you know, when I becameestranged, I after I got through
my grief and, you know, most ofmy the bulk of my depression,
um, I gained more independence.
(19:11):
You know, being raised in a veryreligious family, there's a lot
of rules, there's a lot of waysof thinking that you're kind of
stuck in.
And so, you know, it takes timeto kind of separate from that
and just develop your own sortof free thinking.
And um, with that, I found uh Istarted to get more like a
healthier, developed sense ofself, I guess.
(19:33):
Um and with that came more peaceand functionality in my life,
which is something I didn't havebefore.
Um, did you notice any you knowpros of your estrangement when
you were going through that, AC?
SPEAKER_02 (19:47):
Yeah, it was a lot of what you're talking about.
Like for me, I had always foundlike in a way a couple of key
family members were really inthe way of my ability to
develop.
Improve or even express myselfbecause every time I wanted to
implement the change on apersonal level, it felt like
(20:07):
there was a whole bunch ofpeople there lining up to remind
me of who I really was.
SPEAKER_01 (20:12):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (20:13):
And they were so stuck on where I was coming from
that they didn't really care togive me room to go where I was
going.
So, I mean, yeah, you lose thesupport system, you lose the
familiar, but you do gain thefreedom to move and to just
explore yourself, figure out whoyou are inside the privacy of
(20:34):
your own head.
Like that's a big thing.
SPEAKER_01 (20:36):
Yeah, yeah.
And I felt like I felt calmerafter that when I went through
that whole process, you know,like the grief and all that
stuff that came out after that.
And then once all of thosereally strong feelings started
to kind of subside a little bit,I was able to kind of re-examine
the facts about certain thingsthat had happened or certain
(20:57):
things that I went through.
I was able to see it as anadult, not just as a child going
through it, like we had kind oftalked about before earlier on
in kind of making plans for thisepisode.
Uh there were certain thingsthat I couldn't have thought
those things that way if Ididn't have time to myself, um,
(21:18):
if that makes sense.
You know, removing myself fromthe toxic environment and
putting myself into somethingthat promoted peace and um, you
know, room for my brain tobreathe, I guess.
SPEAKER_02 (21:30):
Well, I mean, you do get kind of battered by a toxic
situation.
And if somebody just it's likethe the way I always kind of
looked at it, it's you know,like when kids sort of tease
each other and they'll just likepoke each other like one spot,
like over and over and overagain.
And it's like they're not pokinghard.
(21:50):
But after you've been poked inthe same spot like 40-50 times,
it starts getting tender.
SPEAKER_00 (21:55):
You can get sore, you can eventually break a bone.
SPEAKER_02 (21:58):
And the thing is, like, all you want is like can
like I'm okay with you pokingme, but can you poke me from a
different angle for a littlewhile?
But family, they don't reallylike to do that, they're just so
used to hitting that one spotover and over again.
Like, even if you haven't goneand fixed the bruise or like the
pain hasn't gone away, at leastthe pain's not getting worse.
(22:19):
Like, yeah, that was a seriousupside.
Like taking my my leave, gettinga bit of space, it's like, man,
I hurt all over.
But the stuff that I don't knowhow to address, just leaving it
alone, it starts feeling better.
And the stuff I can address,it's like, yeah, I'm gonna patch
myself up without fear ofre-injury.
SPEAKER_01 (22:39):
Yeah, it was like too much at once, and then
taking a step away, I was ableto kind of you know get my own
like priorities in order and uhfocus on those things and kind
of clean up my own life incertain areas so that I could
focus on you know those tougherthings.
Um, like you said, just allowingyourself to heal.
SPEAKER_02 (23:00):
So, what did that process look like for you?
SPEAKER_01 (23:03):
Oh god.
It was like there's so manyfeelings or so many emotions.
Uh looking back on it, I just Ikind of get sick to my stomach
thinking about it.
But there were a lot of goodthings that came out of that.
Um, you know, I found some newhobbies and, you know, adjusted
my lifestyle into a way that wasmore comfortable for me and I
(23:25):
felt like I could live with and,you know, something that
promoted, you know, a good,healthy lifestyle, I guess.
Um, changed the way that Imanaged my home.
I changed the way that I managedmy relationships.
I started painting, I startedpodcasting.
Uh I started trying things thatI never would have done before
(23:47):
had I still been in arelationship with them.
Um, I started to set boundaries,which is something I'd never
really done before.
And that was kind of a newexperience for me.
Um, so you know, what did youdo?
Like when the grief subsided andeverything, and you were kind of
(24:07):
going through this like timewhere you were like finding
yourself, you know, what didthat look like for you?
SPEAKER_02 (24:13):
I was really fortunate in the sense that like
I while I had lost access to mybiological family, I had
maintained access to um my bestfriend Jason, who anybody who's
familiar with me online knowsthat I always refer to him as my
brother.
And in every sense of the word,he always has been more family
(24:36):
to me than my blood relationshave been.
He really, you know, he was thecrutch that I leaned on.
SPEAKER_00 (24:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (24:48):
And um he was always there to like ask me the tough
questions and like to say, hey,like, how you doing today,
brother?
Like, do you need to talk?
I got so used to talking to himabout this stuff that it kind of
spilled over into other areas oflife.
I was able to start talking tomy at the time wife about things
(25:10):
that she had never known aboutme.
I was able to talk to, you know,not like strangers, but like
more casual kind ofacquaintances, friends.
And through talking to all thesedifferent people and just
learning to open up, I realizedthat it wasn't enough just to
open up.
We I actually needed someprofessional help.
(25:31):
And I was always a very, veryprideful person.
I couldn't have brought myselfto go see a counselor, but I
think that was the biggestchange for me was going and
getting a bit of therapy, alittle bit of medication to get
my emotions out of the way whileI sorted out my headspace.
And I think all the piecesreally started to fall into
place through that.
SPEAKER_01 (25:54):
Yeah, so we're talking about like you know, who
we can who can we talk to?
Like for those who are listeningwho this whole estrangement
thing is kind of new to them orthey they don't really
understand it very much.
It's like, yeah, how how doesone go about their life like
while they're estranged?
It's like you need support andyou need a lot of it.
And you know, not everyone weknow is going to be supportive.
(26:17):
That was something I found outor very early on.
People who I thought wouldsupport me all my life were just
gone.
They didn't like the situation,they didn't like what was
happening, they they didn't wantto be involved in my life
anymore.
And I had some, you know, myfeelings were kind of mutual.
Um, some friends are just, youknow, they're really fun to be
(26:38):
around, but they're not exactlythe sort of people that, you
know, we would trust with ourproblems.
So, you know, going to see acounselor or something like that
is definitely like, you know, agood thing.
And there are some bad ones outthere, I'll tell you.
Like, there are some, you know,you can shop around.
Like, if you don't like one, youknow, then try someone else.
Um, but anyway, there's alsolike support groups.
(27:01):
Like I joined a support grouponline and it was it was great
for me because I was able tojust kind of type out my stuff
kind of whenever I felt like it.
Um, and that was good.
There's lots of support groupsfor estranged people on
Facebook.
You can find them.
Um, one really good one iscalled Each.
Uh, it stands for EstrangedAdult Children in Healing, and
(27:25):
that is a really, really goodsupport group to join.
They the admins and themoderators are fabulous people.
The group is really close,tight-knit.
They're about growth andhealing.
Um, and it's very confidential.
Um, anyway, good stuff.
SPEAKER_00 (27:45):
I don't know.
We're going to go.
Yeah, we're gonna take a sip ofmy hot cocoa real quick.
I'll let you take it away.
SPEAKER_02 (27:52):
Yeah, because whereas like I think you found a
lot of value in seeking out thethe online groups and online
supports.
Some of us don't really thrivein an environment like that.
I'm one of those people.
I actually found a surprisingamount of support from people I
just do not know.
(28:13):
I continue to find support incomplete strangers.
And I think part of that isbecause I've learned to be so
open about what's going on withme emotionally and what's going
on with like any of my my bigchallenges.
I just start talking to uhpeople literally while I'm
(28:35):
pumping gas, uh, you know, and II think that when we make
ourselves vulnerable andavailable like that, it invites
other people to be just asvulnerable and available
themselves, and we end upfinding ourselves in these
mutually supportive um dynamicswith people that we've never
(29:00):
seen before and may never seeagain, but it's a contagious
thing when we start just openingup and removing a lot of that
stigma that's attached withhurting.
SPEAKER_01 (29:13):
Do you think the show has kind of helped with
that?
SPEAKER_02 (29:17):
I'd like to think that it's it's helped our our
listeners and our guests.
I mean, having been a guest andnow also being a host.
I I've I've seen both from ourlisteners.
SPEAKER_01 (29:30):
Yeah, we get things from our listeners like all the
time, like emails and um youknow, people thanking us to do
the show sometimes, which isreally neat.
SPEAKER_02 (29:41):
But um, so many people feel like they're going
through it alone, they don'trealize that there's other
people with similar stories.
SPEAKER_01 (29:48):
Yeah, lots of them.
It's more common than you think.
Like when I first becameestranged, I didn't really know
there was, I mean, I'm surethere was a word for it, but I
wasn't really thinking aboutthat.
I wasn't thinking there was aword for it.
I didn't really know, I didn'tknow I fit into this category,
and I didn't know there was alot more people.
You know, almost every otherperson I met seemed to have kind
of an estrangement story.
(30:09):
Um, but anyway, you got some um,you were we were talking about
this the other day, and we weretalking about how we haven't
really had a parent on thisshow, an estranged parent, um,
which I've been trying to dosince the beginning.
Yeah, but it's been reallytough.
I feel like the parents maybedon't feel comfortable.
(30:31):
Um, and and or maybe it's just agenerational thing.
I don't know, maybe they're notinto podcasts, but um, you know,
who knows?
But I really would like to hearfrom some of the parents, but I
know that you know, you've gotsome statements from some
parents, you know, that youwanted to kind of share on the
show.
SPEAKER_02 (30:48):
On the side of the show, yeah, it it gave us a
little bit of insight into likewhat they're going through.
And like I know I've heard atleast some of these statements
before.
Um, the the first one that wassubmitted to me was I don't
understand how you could do thisto us.
SPEAKER_00 (31:07):
Yeah, I got that.
SPEAKER_02 (31:09):
Do you want to respond to like the parents out
there?
SPEAKER_01 (31:13):
Yeah, yeah.
No, I got that a lot.
I got that from my mom, I gotthat from family of family
friends.
Um, and you know, I I have tosay I in response to I don't
understand how you could dothis, it's like I didn't
understand everything either.
(31:34):
It wasn't something that I didon a whim.
I actually debated it heavily incounseling for a year.
Um, I didn't want to, but I hadgone through a year trying other
things, trying other forms ofcommunication.
And uh, you know, it was just itwas really, really difficult.
Um it wasn't easy.
(31:54):
Let's just say that.
It wasn't easy.
SPEAKER_02 (32:03):
Yeah, um, I I think we're probably gonna end up
covering some of thesestatements in like a a future
episode.
SPEAKER_00 (32:12):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (32:12):
One of the um the the the challenges of doing our
first live stream is we weren'treally sure exactly how much
time was gonna take to covereverything.
SPEAKER_01 (32:20):
And yeah, and we've had some technical difficulties
too, so we don't know wherewe're at on the timeline,
really.
SPEAKER_02 (32:26):
We're we're we're really running out the the the
clock here.
It looks like we've got about 10minutes left, so we may gloss
past some of these things alittle bit more quickly than we
had planned to, but I think it'slike important stuff to cover,
and we definitely will addressit in more detail in the near
future.
SPEAKER_01 (32:44):
Yes, we will.
SPEAKER_02 (32:45):
So that being said, we'll just jump into like the
next statement uh that Ireceived from a parent.
You've blown this way out ofproportion.
Like I know I've heard this onea lot.
You probably have too.
Did you want to speak to that?
SPEAKER_01 (33:07):
It's tough.
It's like we're sitting heregiggling about it, but I mean,
it's it's so tough.
It's like it's hard.
It's it it felt like again, it'ssomething that you we felt like
we had to do, um, you know, inorder to kind of maintain our
own mental health and sanity.
(33:28):
And um, you know, that Istruggled with that.
It's very difficult to answer.
I could have answereddifferently, you know, the
within the first six months ofit.
I would answer differently now,you know, certain questions,
some of these questions.
SPEAKER_02 (33:44):
Um, like here's the reality is like, how do you
determine like what is anappropriate proportion to deal
with things in?
SPEAKER_00 (33:50):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (33:52):
Like my whole world is blown up, and you want me to
play according to how you thinkyou would handle it when you're
not affected.
SPEAKER_01 (33:58):
Like, yeah, it's like a little bit of a going to
say, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (34:03):
Sorry, didn't mean to cut you off.
SPEAKER_01 (34:04):
No, that's okay.
No, it feels like that.
It feels like you're juststanding here drowning, and and
someone's like, Why can't youjust get up and get out?
It's like, uh I kind of can't.
I'm kind of preoccupied.
There's a lot going on up hereand in here, you know, and uh
it's confusing.
And I just want some time, youknow, to sort some of this stuff
(34:26):
out.
You know.
SPEAKER_02 (34:28):
No, it's it's hard because your whole world is
blown up, you've lost your wholesupport system, and this is when
spectators expect you tocommunicate and act rationally
and calmly.
Yes, and that's and I don't howdo you convince these people
that, like, hey, I think I'mreacting appropriately, and
(34:49):
y'all need to just mind your owndamn business?
SPEAKER_01 (34:51):
Yeah, and that's why you end up cutting out a lot
more people than you thought,you know, you were going to,
because you know, they're notreally giving you the space or
the time to to manage thosethings.
They just want a response, like,and they want one now, you know,
and you just can't give that tothem.
So it's like, you know, from theperspective of someone who's
been estranged, you know, fromthe inside looking out, you
(35:14):
know, being lonely and stuff,especially around the holidays,
you know, I would encourageeveryone to just kind of reach
out to people that they know wholike aren't really talking to or
seeing certain family membersbecause it's very difficult and
we're not one to kind of feellike we're not gonna invite
ourselves over for Thanksgivingdinner or for Christmas dinner,
(35:36):
you know, because we're at homeand we're lonely and we're not
around our family like weusually are.
We're not gonna do that.
But, you know, if you couldstart to think about those
people in your life who maybedon't have a lot of family
around and just kind of, youknow, invite them more, talk to
them more, um, give them a callonce a week or have, you know,
social distance coffee in theparking lot and tailgate it or
(35:57):
something.
You know, that that's somethingthat we really wanted to share
before we sign off on this show.
Um and then also, you know, ifyou are estranged, don't be
afraid to reach out.
Don't we're here on the show.
Um, you know, you could messageus and talk to us.
We're always here.
Um, and you know, the groupstoo, if you know you like that
sort of thing, those Facebookgroups.
(36:19):
Um, but yeah, you know, let yourfriends know, hey, I don't have
a whole lot going on, you know,these holidays.
Do you think we could spend sometime?
Don't be afraid to do that.
SPEAKER_02 (36:27):
Something I want to reach out.
Something I like to put outthere too is I recently lost a
wonderful friend.
Um he took his own life for, youknow, he had his own reasons, I
suppose.
But I don't think anybody shouldever find themselves in a
position where they're thatalone.
(36:50):
If you feel like you don't haveany other friends, you don't
know who to talk to, I'm willingto put my money where my mouth
is.
Send me a message, send me afriend request.
I don't want to lose any of you.
SPEAKER_00 (37:04):
He's a great person to talk to.
SPEAKER_02 (37:06):
Your family may not see your value, but I promise I
do.
You know, um and for anybodywho's trying to be supportive of
their friends and they don'tthey're not really sure how to
approach them, you know, foryears my brother Jason wasn't
(37:27):
sure how to help me entirely.
And in those times when hewasn't sure he did something
really, really uh tiny, and youknow, it may seem insignificant,
but it meant the entire world tome.
Sometimes it was just a simpletext message saying, Hey
brother, uh, I just want you toknow that I love you.
(37:50):
Or hey, hope you're having afantastic day.
You don't know how life-changinga little message like that can
be to a person who needs to hearit, and it takes literally five
seconds out of your day.
So don't feel awkward, don't letthese like weird hang-ups, you
know.
I know guys are especially badwith each other, especially like
(38:11):
those of us who are a little bitolder, we're so worried about
looking like you know, we'reromantically inclined towards
our male friends.
There's nothing wrong withtelling your your bro, hey, I
love you.
Yeah, you know, build on that.
You guys matter to each other,you know.
If somebody is gone, eitherbecause they check out of your
life or you know, heaven forbidsomething happens to them, you
(38:35):
don't want to be crying in theirabsence when you could have just
had a conversation in theirpresence.
SPEAKER_00 (38:41):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (38:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (38:47):
Yeah, good stuff.
Well, do you have anything elseyou want to say before we sign
off here in a few minutes?
SPEAKER_02 (38:58):
Yeah, there's a couple of things I'd like to
shamelessly plug.
Um the first is probably themost wonderful podcast you're
ever gonna come across calledTurn Up the AC.
It's written and hosted by yourstruly.
Um my my whole goal with thatshow is just to lead by example
(39:22):
in the sense that it's okay tobear your soul.
It's okay to be open about theareas where you've really messed
up.
It's okay to learn from yourexperiences, and it's okay to
share what you've learned andhow you've learned it.
I try to communicate in very,very short format.
(39:43):
I don't spend a lot of time onthe biography of my stories.
I'd rather focus on the uh thephilosophy and the psychology of
my stories.
I want to leave room foreverybody to put themselves
right in the middle of what I'msaying.
I think everybody would benefitfrom.
Just checking out one or twoepisodes, it might change the
way you approach things.
(40:04):
Um, the other thing that I wouldlike to put out there, which
maybe I'm preaching to the choirhere, but keep on listening to
when the bow breaks.
We've we've had like somefantastic guests so far, and
we've got some reallyunbelievably good guests lined
up for the near future.
You do not want to miss a singlemoment of what's coming.
SPEAKER_01 (40:27):
Yeah, for sure.
And uh, you know, KingfisherMedia, we've got a couple of
other projects under our beltstoo that we're working on.
They're in pre-production.
Um, so we're going to give veryfew details about that, but um,
they're going to be completelydifferent shows, completely
different concepts, and uhdifferent from the shows that
(40:48):
we're currently doing.
And we're kind of excited aboutit.
So yeah, stay tuned and supportKingfisher Media as you see more
of them.
And thank you for listening toWhen the Bell Breaks.
Again, you can visit us on ourwebsite, www.wtbb pod.com.
You can email us at wtbb podcastat gmail.com or find us on
(41:11):
Facebook, Instagram, Twitter.
And iTunes, like us on iTunes.
unknown (41:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (41:18):
Yes, like and review and share with everybody you
know.
SPEAKER_01 (41:22):
And share, share, share.
Yes.
You never know.
Somebody like on average, everyother person I meet has an
estrangement story, whether it'stemporary or currently going on
or it's been permanent.
Um, it there's a lot of peopleout there.
So yeah, definitely share.
SPEAKER_02 (41:38):
Okay, so for all of us here at When the Bell Breaks
and Kingfisher Media, happyholidays, and we will talk to
you soon.
SPEAKER_01 (41:44):
Happy holidays.
SPEAKER_02 (41:47):
The views expressed on this show are opinion and
experience-based and are notintended as a substitute for
therapy.
Thoughts expressed by our guestsdo not necessarily reflect the
views of WTBB or its affiliates.
Content should not be taken asmedical advice and is here for
informational purposes only.
Please consult your healthcareprofessional for any medical or
(42:08):
mental health related questions.
If you are experiencingestrangement from a family
member and would like to be aguest, please email us at
WTBpodcast at gmail.com.
Your privacy is important to us.
Guests have the option to remainanonymous.
As always, please remember tolike, follow, and share.
Links in this week's show notes.
The following is the Kingfisher Media Podcast.
SPEAKER_02 (00:12):
Hey WTBB family, this is AC.
This episode's a littledifferent from what you've come
to expect on this show.
As many of you know, Alexis andI recently hosted our very first
live show for this year's PodVCom event.
If you're interested in watchingthe full video version, you can
find the link on our Facebookpage.
For the rest of you, we'vepulled the audio from that so
(00:32):
you can listen while you're onthe go.
Please enjoy our 2020 Hot Cocoaedition of When the Bow Breaks,
and as always, remember to like,follow, and share.
Happy holidays, welcome.
SPEAKER_01 (00:58):
My name is Alexis Erlin, and you are watching When
the Bow Breaks podcast, uh, liveHot Cocoa edition.
Uh, welcome here from all of usat Pod Vom and here at When the
Bow Breaks, which is aKingfisher Media production.
SPEAKER_02 (01:13):
I'm AC Fisher, and all of us here at Kingfisher
Media would like to express oursincere gratitude to our to our
listeners and everyone whofollows us on social media.
We have a lot of surprises foryou coming up in the next year.
So please stay tuned.
SPEAKER_01 (01:28):
Yeah, and remember to like and follow us on all of
our media platforms.
You can find us on Instagram andFacebook and Twitter, I believe.
Uh, and if you're a new listenerto the show or you'd like to
listen, you can visit us on ourwebsite, wtbbod.com, and uh as
well as all major podcastplatforms.
SPEAKER_02 (01:50):
And as always, if you happen to find a platform
where you can't find one of ourshows, let us know and we'll do
everything we can to make surethat we're available where you
choose to listen.
And if you'd like to contact us,we'd love hearing from you, even
if it's just a quick hello.
SPEAKER_01 (02:06):
Yeah.
And if you'd like to contact us,you can direct message either
one of us on Facebook or theshow Facebook, uh, or you can
send an email to wtbb podcast atgmail.com.
SPEAKER_02 (02:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (02:20):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (02:21):
So this is a a really special day for us
because we've never hosted alive show before, obviously.
SPEAKER_01 (02:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (02:29):
But we we are excited for everyone who's
joining us here on thisadventure.
Um, there may be a few bumpsalong the way, but please bear
with us.
We're doing our best.
SPEAKER_01 (02:39):
Yes, if we disappear for a minute, don't worry, we're
coming back because that's we'vebeen practicing some vanishing
episodes up until now.
But yeah, so far so good.
Um so yeah, we've never hosted alive show before.
This is our first live showwe're hosting, which is very
exciting.
Um, some of the guests andlisteners that we've had this
(03:01):
past year, who I hope arewatching right now, um, they've
really become like family to usuh throughout this year.
SPEAKER_02 (03:09):
Yeah, which I find amazing considering that when
the bow breaks is all aboutfamily estrangement and broken
relationships.
SPEAKER_01 (03:16):
Right, right.
Um, people who have experienceda form of family estrangement
call in the show to uh talkabout their experiences and
their feelings, and um uh withlosing one or more contact with
one or more family members.
And while we were sharing ourexperiences and feelings with
each other, we unknowinglyformed a unique bond of strength
(03:39):
and a sense of family that maybe different than what we're
used to, but it's it's beenyeah, it's it's been really a
big win for us.
SPEAKER_02 (03:51):
We feel extremely fortunate to have met all the
people we've spoken to in thelast year and a half.
And while we've shared some ofour deepest trauma and pain,
we've also had the fortune of uhyou know hearing stories of
healing, triumph, and even a fewreconnection stories.
(04:12):
Some of these were made possibleby the show, and that's
something that we're bothreally, really proud of.
One of our main goals is alwaysto help mend broken
relationships.
You know, we also we also striveto provide a safe platform for
(04:35):
guests and to facilitateunderstanding and perspective.
And we plan to maintain theseideas as our reach continues to
grow.
SPEAKER_01 (04:46):
But more on that later.
Let's get into this special hotcocoa edition, starting with
what we're drinking, which is abig nice cup of hot cocoa.
I don't know if you can see it.
I don't know.
It's got a cute little candycane in it.
Oops, and it melted.
That's how hot it is.
SPEAKER_02 (05:02):
Yeah, you got a melted candy cane, and Mike has
got a cute little red Christmassweater on it.
SPEAKER_01 (05:08):
Oh, it's cozy.
unknown (05:10):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (05:11):
The candy cane um is is actually something that I I
wanted to share with everyone.
Um, we were talking about familytraditions the other day, and
we're thinking, oh, you know,what's something that we can
share with our listeners?
Um, like a nice family holidaytradition.
When I became estranged, um Ididn't really know which family
(05:32):
holiday traditions I wanted tocontinue with my family.
So I didn't just walk away frommy family.
I walked away from my wholeentire religious community, uh,
which was very traumatic,actually.
And I struggled with a lot ofthe traditions, especially
around the holiday times.
And so I decided, well, what'ssomething new that I can do to
(05:54):
celebrate with my family?
And so I found this cute littleuh Pinterest or this little
thing on Pinterest uh calledGrow Your Own Candy Canes.
And I thought it was reallycute.
So you start with, okay, here'smy little cute little Christmas
tree I got the dollar store.
Um I also got this glass jar andyou fill it with sugar.
(06:15):
Right now it's got little pinecones in it, which I thought
were cute too.
Um, but you fill it with sugarand you plant some candy cane
seeds, which um you could getlike um tic-tacks or like you
know, peppermint patties orsomething like that.
And you plant them in the sugar,and then Santa comes and spreads
(06:36):
his magic, and then in themorning, so Santa comes and in
the morning you have candycanes.
It's a really fun, geeky holidaytradition.
But my kids, even though they'reolder now, they love it.
And it was just one of thosethings that kind of helped me
cope, helped give me newtraditions and new memories to
(06:56):
make with my family, even thoughthe structure had changed and um
which was kind of scary, even alittle bit.
But anyway, it's really fun.
So I just wanted to share it allwith you.
So if you want to learn how togrow your own candy canes, you
can check out my uh Pinterest,which is under Alexis Ara Lynn.
And um, I pinned something therethat you can find that's called
(07:18):
Grow Your Own Candy Canes.
So visit me on Pinterest, y'all.
Do you have any any uh funlittle holiday uh traditions
that you want to share witheveryone, AC?
SPEAKER_02 (07:31):
Yeah, actually, I I think it's kind of interesting
that you developed a a newtradition for your family to
sort of help cope with the lossof you know your people.
I kind of cope with the loss ofmy people in a different way,
and that was through you knowembracing a tradition that you
(07:51):
know my parents had started whenI was you know 13 years old or
so.
And you know, I I did a wholeepisode uh talking about that
story on Turn Up the AC.
So anybody who wants to hear allthe details can check it out
there.
It's a great episode.
Yeah, but the the short versionis we didn't have a Christmas
(08:13):
tree, we didn't have anything tohang on a tree, even if we did
have one.
So my parents improvised.
My dad just cut a branch off atree in the yard and stuck it
that in the pot in the livingroom, and we made decorations by
wrapping up matchbooks, orsorry, not matchbooks,
matchboxes with festive wrappingpaper and hanging those on the
(08:35):
tree.
I don't know if you can sort ofsee this, but I made one for
everybody to see.
It just like a little tiny gift,and you know, you just hang that
with a paper clip or a littlepiece of string on the tree.
And yeah, that's sort of that'ssort of my deal.
SPEAKER_01 (08:50):
Yeah, so everyone, I'm gonna plug that too.
Yeah, it's called Turn Up theAC.
Um, what do you remember thename of the episode?
Because it's really good.
Um, my kids request to hear it,uh, you know, as one of their
Christmas stories that they liketo listen to this time of year.
So it's it's been nice.
SPEAKER_02 (09:07):
Um, I've done so many episodes, I've lost track
of all the titles, but I thinkit was called Christmas Gifts.
SPEAKER_01 (09:13):
Yes, I think it is called Christmas Gifts,
something really obvious likethat.
But it's a great episode.
Turn up the AC.
You should definitely,definitely check it out.
Um, so back to this show.
So this is about estrangement,um, which is essentially the
loss of an existing relationshipthrough physical and or
(09:35):
emotional distance.
So what did you knowestrangement look like for you,
I guess, when when this wholething started for you?
SPEAKER_02 (09:49):
It was kind of uh a different emotional experience
for me.
You know, um with when you whenyou get used to being surrounded
by certain people, you know,whether or not these people
provide a comfortableenvironment, you still become
very used to having them around.
And I guess if the comfort isn'tin the relationship, the comfort
(10:11):
is in the familiarity of thesituation.
And losing that, it kind of putme into like a a bit of a
tailspin.
I wasn't really sure how I fit,where I fit, or even entirely
who I was, and especially withlike this time of year, the
(10:32):
holiday season, it was a very,very lonely time.
SPEAKER_01 (10:36):
Right.
Yeah, when when I becameestranged, yeah, I was really
depressed and I had a lot ofgrief, like just crying, like
all the time, you know.
Um I had experienced like publicshaming and uh smear campaigns,
(10:56):
you know, things like that.
Um, the loss, yeah, like yousaid, the the loss of identity,
because you know, I not justwalking away from my family, but
the you know, the religiousgroup too, and I didn't really
know who I was.
It was really awkward.
And um, so it makes you feellike you you played this
character, you know, all growingup, and then you step away, and
(11:19):
now all of a sudden you'resupposed to be yourself and you
don't really know who that is.
And you know, that can be amajor challenge when you're in
the your 30s and you know you'remarried with a bunch of kids and
you're like, who am I?
You know, it's awkward.
SPEAKER_02 (11:33):
Um no, it's it's a really difficult thing to go
through.
I mean, there's you know,there's a there's a lot of
downsides of the situation.
I mean, like you say, you kindof lose sight of who you are.
It's like you like you'rewalking away from this character
you've been playing, you don'tremember how to play real
authentic you anymore.
(11:54):
And at the same time, whileyou're trying to find your
footing inside of your ownheadspace, you're dealing with
this complex uh uh array ofemotion.
You know, I I know that I dealtwith a lot of you know feelings
of grief.
You know, I had lost thesepeople that I cared about.
(12:17):
I felt isolated.
You know, it's um when when youget used to having a certain
support system, whether or notthey're a productive support
system, it's it's difficult tofind yourself without all of
that.
And uh just to take a briefpause here, it looks like we've
(12:38):
lost Alexis temporarily.
She will be back, don't worry.
Um, dealing with this grief andisolation, it did send me into
you know, like a fairlydifficult period of of
depression.
I wasn't really sure how to dealwith any of this.
(12:59):
It was completely unfamiliar,unfamiliar territory.
The the whole experience oflosing family and friends, and
um for me at the same time asthe family estrangement started,
I was also dealing with a crisisof faith.
I had lost a lot of the supportsystem that I had become
(13:20):
accustomed to through the churchenvironment.
And all these things combined,it just it created like an
overwhelming trauma.
I mean, there was me dealingwith a mountain of hurt and
confusion.
And, you know, like Alexis hadalluded to just a little bit
earlier, you know, the the thepublic shaming and the smear
(13:41):
campaigns.
I mean, these were unexpectedelements.
I expected to miss my mom and mysiblings.
I didn't expect to find myselfin a situation where I was
missing other family members andmissing friends, people that had
always been there suddenly werenot.
(14:02):
It was um almost like a a bunchof dominoes started falling
over.
You know, you lose a couple ofpeople that are right at the
center of your existence, andyou think, hey, not a big deal.
I can cope without one or two ofthem, but trying to cope without
all of them that's uh kind of ait's a bigger thing.
(14:25):
Um one of the other kind of likeunexpected downsides that there
was really no way to prepare forwas uh it was almost like family
friends uh felt compelled toretaliate against me without
even um uh understanding the insand outs of the situation.
(14:45):
It seemed like these people allwanted to uh present themselves
as author authorities on uh thedetails of my life.
And you know, I think like manypeople that have dealt with
estrangement, we don't uh hatethe people that we're isolated
from.
We we still love them very much,we may even hold the like a fair
(15:08):
amount of respect for them.
So because of of these things,we don't really want to uh smear
them back.
We want to protect the integrityof of their image, we want to
make sure that you know we speakkindly, we want to take the high
road, things uh uh of thisnature.
(15:30):
So as tempting as it is whensomebody is besmirching our good
name, we don't ever want to endup in a position where our only
means of defending ourselves isto talk smack about the other
half of a difficult situation.
(15:53):
And I think uh when we don'tjump into the fray with a whole
bunch of nasty talk of our own,uh the people that are attacking
us, they they almost feelempowered and and and validated
in their approach because hey,like, look, this person doesn't
have anything to say in theirown defense, they must know that
they're wrong, and they kind ofthey almost want to dial up the
(16:14):
pressure on us, uh which canbecome extremely overwhelming.
We don't need all this otherstuff.
It looks like we've got Alexisback here.
So what what what you missedwhile you were lost down the uh
(16:36):
the the the black hole of lossof internet connection?
I just sort of finished up goingthrough everything associated
with the uh with the cons offinding oneself estranged,
right?
SPEAKER_01 (16:49):
Right.
So yeah, so there's a lot ofcons.
Sounds pretty depressing.
Um, so why did we want to make ashow about this, considering all
of those things?
SPEAKER_02 (17:06):
Yeah, like this is actually like a really, really
common question.
People are like, wow, this isreally, really heavy subject
material.
Why do you guys want a podcastabout it?
That does not sound fun.
SPEAKER_00 (17:16):
It doesn't sound fun.
SPEAKER_02 (17:17):
It's it's weird, like it is rarely, but yeah,
yeah, it doesn't sound fun, butthe relationships we make, the
conversations we have, I mean,it's it's amazing how much
laughter and good times you canhave when you're unpacking
really ugly situations withcomplete strangers.
SPEAKER_01 (17:33):
Right.
And I didn't want it just to bea show where people just called
in and just you know cried abouttheir trauma.
It's like that's definitely partof it, but I wanted the show to
be a resource.
There weren't that many podcastsout there, not that I could have
that I look, I couldn't find anypodcasts about estrangement at
all.
And I thought, well, maybethat's just something I could
(17:53):
do, you know.
And I was like, oh, well, if ittakes off, if we work hard at
it, it can be a resource.
And that's really uh why Idecided to go ahead and do it.
So it's been it'll be like twoyears on on December 31st when I
first started working on thepodcast.
So that's pretty exciting.
So two years, happy anniversary,WTVB.
SPEAKER_02 (18:15):
No, and you know, like it's I I think it's a great
resource.
I mean, that's how I becameinvolved with the show.
I was the first guest on thefirst episode, uh-huh.
And I sort of have stuck aroundever since.
SPEAKER_00 (18:26):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (18:27):
I mean, for me, I I was finding it difficult coping
with a difficult familysituation and without like
having a real support system,and um finding somebody to talk
to who had experienced a similarthing through the show really
was a huge part of my healingprocess.
SPEAKER_01 (18:48):
Yeah, and with that, we found, you know, going
through this process and talkingwith other people about this,
you know, we found that there isalso a lot of pros.
There can be pros toestrangement.
Um, you know, when I becameestranged, I after I got through
my grief and, you know, most ofmy the bulk of my depression,
um, I gained more independence.
(19:11):
You know, being raised in a veryreligious family, there's a lot
of rules, there's a lot of waysof thinking that you're kind of
stuck in.
And so, you know, it takes timeto kind of separate from that
and just develop your own sortof free thinking.
And um, with that, I found uh Istarted to get more like a
healthier, developed sense ofself, I guess.
(19:33):
Um and with that came more peaceand functionality in my life,
which is something I didn't havebefore.
Um, did you notice any you knowpros of your estrangement when
you were going through that, AC?
SPEAKER_02 (19:47):
Yeah, it was a lot of what you're talking about.
Like for me, I had always foundlike in a way a couple of key
family members were really inthe way of my ability to
develop.
Improve or even express myselfbecause every time I wanted to
implement the change on apersonal level, it felt like
(20:07):
there was a whole bunch ofpeople there lining up to remind
me of who I really was.
SPEAKER_01 (20:12):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (20:13):
And they were so stuck on where I was coming from
that they didn't really care togive me room to go where I was
going.
So, I mean, yeah, you lose thesupport system, you lose the
familiar, but you do gain thefreedom to move and to just
explore yourself, figure out whoyou are inside the privacy of
(20:34):
your own head.
Like that's a big thing.
SPEAKER_01 (20:36):
Yeah, yeah.
And I felt like I felt calmerafter that when I went through
that whole process, you know,like the grief and all that
stuff that came out after that.
And then once all of thosereally strong feelings started
to kind of subside a little bit,I was able to kind of re-examine
the facts about certain thingsthat had happened or certain
(20:57):
things that I went through.
I was able to see it as anadult, not just as a child going
through it, like we had kind oftalked about before earlier on
in kind of making plans for thisepisode.
Uh there were certain thingsthat I couldn't have thought
those things that way if Ididn't have time to myself, um,
(21:18):
if that makes sense.
You know, removing myself fromthe toxic environment and
putting myself into somethingthat promoted peace and um, you
know, room for my brain tobreathe, I guess.
SPEAKER_02 (21:30):
Well, I mean, you do get kind of battered by a toxic
situation.
And if somebody just it's likethe the way I always kind of
looked at it, it's you know,like when kids sort of tease
each other and they'll just likepoke each other like one spot,
like over and over and overagain.
And it's like they're not pokinghard.
(21:50):
But after you've been poked inthe same spot like 40-50 times,
it starts getting tender.
SPEAKER_00 (21:55):
You can get sore, you can eventually break a bone.
SPEAKER_02 (21:58):
And the thing is, like, all you want is like can
like I'm okay with you pokingme, but can you poke me from a
different angle for a littlewhile?
But family, they don't reallylike to do that, they're just so
used to hitting that one spotover and over again.
Like, even if you haven't goneand fixed the bruise or like the
pain hasn't gone away, at leastthe pain's not getting worse.
(22:19):
Like, yeah, that was a seriousupside.
Like taking my my leave, gettinga bit of space, it's like, man,
I hurt all over.
But the stuff that I don't knowhow to address, just leaving it
alone, it starts feeling better.
And the stuff I can address,it's like, yeah, I'm gonna patch
myself up without fear ofre-injury.
SPEAKER_01 (22:39):
Yeah, it was like too much at once, and then
taking a step away, I was ableto kind of you know get my own
like priorities in order and uhfocus on those things and kind
of clean up my own life incertain areas so that I could
focus on you know those tougherthings.
Um, like you said, just allowingyourself to heal.
SPEAKER_02 (23:00):
So, what did that process look like for you?
SPEAKER_01 (23:03):
Oh god.
It was like there's so manyfeelings or so many emotions.
Uh looking back on it, I just Ikind of get sick to my stomach
thinking about it.
But there were a lot of goodthings that came out of that.
Um, you know, I found some newhobbies and, you know, adjusted
my lifestyle into a way that wasmore comfortable for me and I
(23:25):
felt like I could live with and,you know, something that
promoted, you know, a good,healthy lifestyle, I guess.
Um, changed the way that Imanaged my home.
I changed the way that I managedmy relationships.
I started painting, I startedpodcasting.
Uh I started trying things thatI never would have done before
(23:47):
had I still been in arelationship with them.
Um, I started to set boundaries,which is something I'd never
really done before.
And that was kind of a newexperience for me.
Um, so you know, what did youdo?
Like when the grief subsided andeverything, and you were kind of
(24:07):
going through this like timewhere you were like finding
yourself, you know, what didthat look like for you?
SPEAKER_02 (24:13):
I was really fortunate in the sense that like
I while I had lost access to mybiological family, I had
maintained access to um my bestfriend Jason, who anybody who's
familiar with me online knowsthat I always refer to him as my
brother.
And in every sense of the word,he always has been more family
(24:36):
to me than my blood relationshave been.
He really, you know, he was thecrutch that I leaned on.
SPEAKER_00 (24:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (24:48):
And um he was always there to like ask me the tough
questions and like to say, hey,like, how you doing today,
brother?
Like, do you need to talk?
I got so used to talking to himabout this stuff that it kind of
spilled over into other areas oflife.
I was able to start talking tomy at the time wife about things
(25:10):
that she had never known aboutme.
I was able to talk to, you know,not like strangers, but like
more casual kind ofacquaintances, friends.
And through talking to all thesedifferent people and just
learning to open up, I realizedthat it wasn't enough just to
open up.
We I actually needed someprofessional help.
(25:31):
And I was always a very, veryprideful person.
I couldn't have brought myselfto go see a counselor, but I
think that was the biggestchange for me was going and
getting a bit of therapy, alittle bit of medication to get
my emotions out of the way whileI sorted out my headspace.
And I think all the piecesreally started to fall into
place through that.
SPEAKER_01 (25:54):
Yeah, so we're talking about like you know, who
we can who can we talk to?
Like for those who are listeningwho this whole estrangement
thing is kind of new to them orthey they don't really
understand it very much.
It's like, yeah, how how doesone go about their life like
while they're estranged?
It's like you need support andyou need a lot of it.
And you know, not everyone weknow is going to be supportive.
(26:17):
That was something I found outor very early on.
People who I thought wouldsupport me all my life were just
gone.
They didn't like the situation,they didn't like what was
happening, they they didn't wantto be involved in my life
anymore.
And I had some, you know, myfeelings were kind of mutual.
Um, some friends are just, youknow, they're really fun to be
(26:38):
around, but they're not exactlythe sort of people that, you
know, we would trust with ourproblems.
So, you know, going to see acounselor or something like that
is definitely like, you know, agood thing.
And there are some bad ones outthere, I'll tell you.
Like, there are some, you know,you can shop around.
Like, if you don't like one, youknow, then try someone else.
Um, but anyway, there's alsolike support groups.
(27:01):
Like I joined a support grouponline and it was it was great
for me because I was able tojust kind of type out my stuff
kind of whenever I felt like it.
Um, and that was good.
There's lots of support groupsfor estranged people on
Facebook.
You can find them.
Um, one really good one iscalled Each.
Uh, it stands for EstrangedAdult Children in Healing, and
(27:25):
that is a really, really goodsupport group to join.
They the admins and themoderators are fabulous people.
The group is really close,tight-knit.
They're about growth andhealing.
Um, and it's very confidential.
Um, anyway, good stuff.
SPEAKER_00 (27:45):
I don't know.
We're going to go.
Yeah, we're gonna take a sip ofmy hot cocoa real quick.
I'll let you take it away.
SPEAKER_02 (27:52):
Yeah, because whereas like I think you found a
lot of value in seeking out thethe online groups and online
supports.
Some of us don't really thrivein an environment like that.
I'm one of those people.
I actually found a surprisingamount of support from people I
just do not know.
(28:13):
I continue to find support incomplete strangers.
And I think part of that isbecause I've learned to be so
open about what's going on withme emotionally and what's going
on with like any of my my bigchallenges.
I just start talking to uhpeople literally while I'm
(28:35):
pumping gas, uh, you know, and II think that when we make
ourselves vulnerable andavailable like that, it invites
other people to be just asvulnerable and available
themselves, and we end upfinding ourselves in these
mutually supportive um dynamicswith people that we've never
(29:00):
seen before and may never seeagain, but it's a contagious
thing when we start just openingup and removing a lot of that
stigma that's attached withhurting.
SPEAKER_01 (29:13):
Do you think the show has kind of helped with
that?
SPEAKER_02 (29:17):
I'd like to think that it's it's helped our our
listeners and our guests.
I mean, having been a guest andnow also being a host.
I I've I've seen both from ourlisteners.
SPEAKER_01 (29:30):
Yeah, we get things from our listeners like all the
time, like emails and um youknow, people thanking us to do
the show sometimes, which isreally neat.
SPEAKER_02 (29:41):
But um, so many people feel like they're going
through it alone, they don'trealize that there's other
people with similar stories.
SPEAKER_01 (29:48):
Yeah, lots of them.
It's more common than you think.
Like when I first becameestranged, I didn't really know
there was, I mean, I'm surethere was a word for it, but I
wasn't really thinking aboutthat.
I wasn't thinking there was aword for it.
I didn't really know, I didn'tknow I fit into this category,
and I didn't know there was alot more people.
You know, almost every otherperson I met seemed to have kind
of an estrangement story.
(30:09):
Um, but anyway, you got some um,you were we were talking about
this the other day, and we weretalking about how we haven't
really had a parent on thisshow, an estranged parent, um,
which I've been trying to dosince the beginning.
Yeah, but it's been reallytough.
I feel like the parents maybedon't feel comfortable.
(30:31):
Um, and and or maybe it's just agenerational thing.
I don't know, maybe they're notinto podcasts, but um, you know,
who knows?
But I really would like to hearfrom some of the parents, but I
know that you know, you've gotsome statements from some
parents, you know, that youwanted to kind of share on the
show.
SPEAKER_02 (30:48):
On the side of the show, yeah, it it gave us a
little bit of insight into likewhat they're going through.
And like I know I've heard atleast some of these statements
before.
Um, the the first one that wassubmitted to me was I don't
understand how you could do thisto us.
SPEAKER_00 (31:07):
Yeah, I got that.
SPEAKER_02 (31:09):
Do you want to respond to like the parents out
there?
SPEAKER_01 (31:13):
Yeah, yeah.
No, I got that a lot.
I got that from my mom, I gotthat from family of family
friends.
Um, and you know, I I have tosay I in response to I don't
understand how you could dothis, it's like I didn't
understand everything either.
(31:34):
It wasn't something that I didon a whim.
I actually debated it heavily incounseling for a year.
Um, I didn't want to, but I hadgone through a year trying other
things, trying other forms ofcommunication.
And uh, you know, it was just itwas really, really difficult.
Um it wasn't easy.
(31:54):
Let's just say that.
It wasn't easy.
SPEAKER_02 (32:03):
Yeah, um, I I think we're probably gonna end up
covering some of thesestatements in like a a future
episode.
SPEAKER_00 (32:12):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (32:12):
One of the um the the the challenges of doing our
first live stream is we weren'treally sure exactly how much
time was gonna take to covereverything.
SPEAKER_01 (32:20):
And yeah, and we've had some technical difficulties
too, so we don't know wherewe're at on the timeline,
really.
SPEAKER_02 (32:26):
We're we're we're really running out the the the
clock here.
It looks like we've got about 10minutes left, so we may gloss
past some of these things alittle bit more quickly than we
had planned to, but I think it'slike important stuff to cover,
and we definitely will addressit in more detail in the near
future.
SPEAKER_01 (32:44):
Yes, we will.
SPEAKER_02 (32:45):
So that being said, we'll just jump into like the
next statement uh that Ireceived from a parent.
You've blown this way out ofproportion.
Like I know I've heard this onea lot.
You probably have too.
Did you want to speak to that?
SPEAKER_01 (33:07):
It's tough.
It's like we're sitting heregiggling about it, but I mean,
it's it's so tough.
It's like it's hard.
It's it it felt like again, it'ssomething that you we felt like
we had to do, um, you know, inorder to kind of maintain our
own mental health and sanity.
(33:28):
And um, you know, that Istruggled with that.
It's very difficult to answer.
I could have answereddifferently, you know, the
within the first six months ofit.
I would answer differently now,you know, certain questions,
some of these questions.
SPEAKER_02 (33:44):
Um, like here's the reality is like, how do you
determine like what is anappropriate proportion to deal
with things in?
SPEAKER_00 (33:50):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (33:52):
Like my whole world is blown up, and you want me to
play according to how you thinkyou would handle it when you're
not affected.
SPEAKER_01 (33:58):
Like, yeah, it's like a little bit of a going to
say, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (34:03):
Sorry, didn't mean to cut you off.
SPEAKER_01 (34:04):
No, that's okay.
No, it feels like that.
It feels like you're juststanding here drowning, and and
someone's like, Why can't youjust get up and get out?
It's like, uh I kind of can't.
I'm kind of preoccupied.
There's a lot going on up hereand in here, you know, and uh
it's confusing.
And I just want some time, youknow, to sort some of this stuff
(34:26):
out.
You know.
SPEAKER_02 (34:28):
No, it's it's hard because your whole world is
blown up, you've lost your wholesupport system, and this is when
spectators expect you tocommunicate and act rationally
and calmly.
Yes, and that's and I don't howdo you convince these people
that, like, hey, I think I'mreacting appropriately, and
(34:49):
y'all need to just mind your owndamn business?
SPEAKER_01 (34:51):
Yeah, and that's why you end up cutting out a lot
more people than you thought,you know, you were going to,
because you know, they're notreally giving you the space or
the time to to manage thosethings.
They just want a response, like,and they want one now, you know,
and you just can't give that tothem.
So it's like, you know, from theperspective of someone who's
been estranged, you know, fromthe inside looking out, you
(35:14):
know, being lonely and stuff,especially around the holidays,
you know, I would encourageeveryone to just kind of reach
out to people that they know wholike aren't really talking to or
seeing certain family membersbecause it's very difficult and
we're not one to kind of feellike we're not gonna invite
ourselves over for Thanksgivingdinner or for Christmas dinner,
(35:36):
you know, because we're at homeand we're lonely and we're not
around our family like weusually are.
We're not gonna do that.
But, you know, if you couldstart to think about those
people in your life who maybedon't have a lot of family
around and just kind of, youknow, invite them more, talk to
them more, um, give them a callonce a week or have, you know,
social distance coffee in theparking lot and tailgate it or
(35:57):
something.
You know, that that's somethingthat we really wanted to share
before we sign off on this show.
Um and then also, you know, ifyou are estranged, don't be
afraid to reach out.
Don't we're here on the show.
Um, you know, you could messageus and talk to us.
We're always here.
Um, and you know, the groupstoo, if you know you like that
sort of thing, those Facebookgroups.
(36:19):
Um, but yeah, you know, let yourfriends know, hey, I don't have
a whole lot going on, you know,these holidays.
Do you think we could spend sometime?
Don't be afraid to do that.
SPEAKER_02 (36:27):
Something I want to reach out.
Something I like to put outthere too is I recently lost a
wonderful friend.
Um he took his own life for, youknow, he had his own reasons, I
suppose.
But I don't think anybody shouldever find themselves in a
position where they're thatalone.
(36:50):
If you feel like you don't haveany other friends, you don't
know who to talk to, I'm willingto put my money where my mouth
is.
Send me a message, send me afriend request.
I don't want to lose any of you.
SPEAKER_00 (37:04):
He's a great person to talk to.
SPEAKER_02 (37:06):
Your family may not see your value, but I promise I
do.
You know, um and for anybodywho's trying to be supportive of
their friends and they don'tthey're not really sure how to
approach them, you know, foryears my brother Jason wasn't
(37:27):
sure how to help me entirely.
And in those times when hewasn't sure he did something
really, really uh tiny, and youknow, it may seem insignificant,
but it meant the entire world tome.
Sometimes it was just a simpletext message saying, Hey
brother, uh, I just want you toknow that I love you.
(37:50):
Or hey, hope you're having afantastic day.
You don't know how life-changinga little message like that can
be to a person who needs to hearit, and it takes literally five
seconds out of your day.
So don't feel awkward, don't letthese like weird hang-ups, you
know.
I know guys are especially badwith each other, especially like
(38:11):
those of us who are a little bitolder, we're so worried about
looking like you know, we'reromantically inclined towards
our male friends.
There's nothing wrong withtelling your your bro, hey, I
love you.
Yeah, you know, build on that.
You guys matter to each other,you know.
If somebody is gone, eitherbecause they check out of your
life or you know, heaven forbidsomething happens to them, you
(38:35):
don't want to be crying in theirabsence when you could have just
had a conversation in theirpresence.
SPEAKER_00 (38:41):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (38:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (38:47):
Yeah, good stuff.
Well, do you have anything elseyou want to say before we sign
off here in a few minutes?
SPEAKER_02 (38:58):
Yeah, there's a couple of things I'd like to
shamelessly plug.
Um the first is probably themost wonderful podcast you're
ever gonna come across calledTurn Up the AC.
It's written and hosted by yourstruly.
Um my my whole goal with thatshow is just to lead by example
(39:22):
in the sense that it's okay tobear your soul.
It's okay to be open about theareas where you've really messed
up.
It's okay to learn from yourexperiences, and it's okay to
share what you've learned andhow you've learned it.
I try to communicate in very,very short format.
(39:43):
I don't spend a lot of time onthe biography of my stories.
I'd rather focus on the uh thephilosophy and the psychology of
my stories.
I want to leave room foreverybody to put themselves
right in the middle of what I'msaying.
I think everybody would benefitfrom.
Just checking out one or twoepisodes, it might change the
way you approach things.
(40:04):
Um, the other thing that I wouldlike to put out there, which
maybe I'm preaching to the choirhere, but keep on listening to
when the bow breaks.
We've we've had like somefantastic guests so far, and
we've got some reallyunbelievably good guests lined
up for the near future.
You do not want to miss a singlemoment of what's coming.
SPEAKER_01 (40:27):
Yeah, for sure.
And uh, you know, KingfisherMedia, we've got a couple of
other projects under our beltstoo that we're working on.
They're in pre-production.
Um, so we're going to give veryfew details about that, but um,
they're going to be completelydifferent shows, completely
different concepts, and uhdifferent from the shows that
(40:48):
we're currently doing.
And we're kind of excited aboutit.
So yeah, stay tuned and supportKingfisher Media as you see more
of them.
And thank you for listening toWhen the Bell Breaks.
Again, you can visit us on ourwebsite, www.wtbb pod.com.
You can email us at wtbb podcastat gmail.com or find us on
(41:11):
Facebook, Instagram, Twitter.
And iTunes, like us on iTunes.
unknown (41:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (41:18):
Yes, like and review and share with everybody you
know.
SPEAKER_01 (41:22):
And share, share, share.
Yes.
You never know.
Somebody like on average, everyother person I meet has an
estrangement story, whether it'stemporary or currently going on
or it's been permanent.
Um, it there's a lot of peopleout there.
So yeah, definitely share.
SPEAKER_02 (41:38):
Okay, so for all of us here at When the Bell Breaks
and Kingfisher Media, happyholidays, and we will talk to
you soon.
SPEAKER_01 (41:44):
Happy holidays.
SPEAKER_02 (41:47):
The views expressed on this show are opinion and
experience-based and are notintended as a substitute for
therapy.
Thoughts expressed by our guestsdo not necessarily reflect the
views of WTBB or its affiliates.
Content should not be taken asmedical advice and is here for
informational purposes only.
Please consult your healthcareprofessional for any medical or
(42:08):
mental health related questions.
If you are experiencingestrangement from a family
member and would like to be aguest, please email us at
WTBpodcast at gmail.com.
Your privacy is important to us.
Guests have the option to remainanonymous.
As always, please remember tolike, follow, and share.
Links in this week's show notes.
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