March 24, 2023 • 49 mins
In this episode,
we are covering a pretty crazy duo of cases. In 1960's New York, the LGBTQ+ community is struck with fear and outrage when dismembered remains of queer locals wash up in trash bags on the Hudson River. Paul Bateson, later arrested for a separate murder reportedly claims to be the serial killer behind these brutal 'Bag Murders', but was he? In addition, only a decade later, another killer arises within the same area with a similar MO. Some know this to be the case of the, "Last Call Killer".As always, don't forget to leave any positive feedback and reviews! You can also add us on the following social media platforms listed below! Thank you again for listening and we will see you when the light, goes out!
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Have a story you'd like to share with us?
Email us any of your feedback and inquiries: wtlgoinquiries@gmail.com
Sources:
History.com May 2017. Stonewall Riots
https://www.history.com/topics/gay-rights/the-stonewall-riots
Bono, Sal , July 2021, The Bag Murders and the Last Call Killer Put in Focus the Dangers the New York LGBTQ+ Community Faces
Green, Elon July 2022, Last Call: A True Story of Love, Lust, and Murder in Queer New YorkJuly 2021 , The Exorcist Serial Killer
https://www.truecrimeedition.com/post/paul-bateson
March 2021 , Khan, Robert What Really Happened With the 'Last Call' Killer Who Terrorized NYC's Gay Nightspots in 1980s and '90s?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Oh, oh, hello there. Welcome back.
(00:03):
Well, I guess if you're just starting this series of ours, welcome.
But if you're coming back, welcome back. And I am Kendall.
And I'm Bri with Guest Star Boo.
Hey, boo.
Be here at Perrin. She's here again.
And this is when the light goes out.
(00:34):
She doesn't meow a lot, but that would be cute.
That would be cute. Gosh.
OK, well, oh, my God.
I don't know why I'm so jittery today.
I haven't had no coffee, but you know what?
Probably the lack of coffee.
Lack of coffee. Yeah. Yeah, that's true.
Lack of coffee.
But I've also been very dedicated to the gym lately.
(00:55):
I'm so proud of myself. Yeah.
Thank you. I I'm sure everyone or not everyone,
but I'm sure a lot out there go regularly and they're like,
it's not that hard, but hey, it's a big step for me.
So yeah, I mean, for some people, like, yeah,
I had never stepped foot in a gym.
And so Simon's sister took me one time or two times.
(01:18):
Two times. Oh, first.
Sounds like the first time I've ever been to a gym.
Someone had to take me there.
And I'm like, oh, OK, this is OK.
I guess. And I only went because I wanted to hang out with her.
Unless I wanted to go to the gym.
I've been on a couple of dates, gym dates,
which I don't strongly suggest those.
Maybe you maybe you guys do.
Maybe you guys are super big
gym worker at outers at the time or something.
(01:40):
And you guys love doing that stuff.
But me, oh, no, I will never again.
I feel like it's not like a very personable.
No, at least not for like a first or second day,
maybe like a couple of dates.
Yeah. Or there's like this one time that I had.
Oh, what did I do? Where do we go?
Oh, girl, I got so many stories.
You can't even remember.
(02:03):
She's right. No, I. Where was I?
Fuck. Oh, we went to get we went to do.
Um, not yoga, but Pilates.
We went to do Pilates together.
But first we got high, like a first date thing.
Yeah. OK.
But, um, yeah, we had gotten high.
Went into the little studio.
(02:23):
He actually worked there, too.
We went to a little studio and she's like, OK.
No, she first day works there.
Yeah, he does.
Um, so, yeah, that that date happened.
It was a nice little plotty sesh with one of his good friends.
I work there and it was awkward because I'm like, at first,
(02:44):
I didn't know he worked there.
I was like, oh, you work here because we're like sitting
as cars smoking or whatever.
And he was like, yeah, I work here.
I was like, oh, shit.
So, yeah, there's that.
I remember later later that day, I got a ticket from Detroit.
It was like, whoa, it was like a whopping fifty five dollars.
For what?
For parking in a handicap accident.
(03:07):
I was about to say it has to be a parking ticket
because that's the only thing Detroit cops are.
I guess that's not even the cops.
So like the meter maids.
Yeah, the cops in Detroit.
You know, they're there.
They don't care about shit.
Well, in my driving, they don't care.
Yeah, the beating.
No, they don't care. They don't give a shit.
Well, you're doing like a hundred and like a thirty five.
(03:29):
OK, yeah, that that that's if you're doing like
forty, forty five, fifty.
Well, it's going to say I didn't even want to go at the time
because I was downtown at like some some bar
visiting a friend with a friend and I parked like on the street.
And I didn't even know I was parking here like the handicapped
because the sign was so far away from where I parked.
(03:50):
Apparently still apply to that area.
So I was like, you probably could have fought that shit.
I know. And everyone said that at the time.
I was just being lazy. I just paid it.
Yeah, I mean, that's just annoying.
And parking is so fucking annoying.
Yeah. Oh, my God, I'm sorry.
Well, fuck you.
There. Yeah, I was just going to say, oh,
Cass, that new thing where they they give me every time.
(04:12):
Every time I park in real oak, they like have this like sensor thing.
So like if you back your car up and you like park there,
if you don't pay it right then and there, they're going to take a picture
of her because they have little cameras next side of them. Yeah.
Well, seriously, fuck you.
And they're confusing.
Like they are.
Like, I don't know which one is supposed to be like the spot that I'm
(04:36):
parking and like the number and like they're so high tech.
Like I know how to pay a Detroit parking meter,
but like a Royal Oak when I don't fucking get it.
It's all like app. You have to go on the app.
You have to get this shit. You have to pay it that way.
I come here once I got in here.
Yeah, they do it on purpose just to get you.
Yeah, I'm sure they do it.
Ten dollars.
Yeah, I'm sure they do it so many other places.
(04:58):
But yeah, there's that.
But we won't waste too much more time on our little ticket talks.
Our Ted talks.
Our Ted talks.
About our lives.
We're just going to start before we even start our case today.
Just a quick.
(05:20):
I guess just some some news for you guys,
just so you guys aren't too like, well, what's going on next episode?
So we're at episode 29, right?
Obviously episode 30 comes next week for you guys.
And then that actually wraps up our first season, I guess, on our record.
It does. Long enough.
(05:42):
Seasons long season.
Yeah, shameless or something.
No, seriously.
No, seriously.
It's been two seasons.
I know. Fuck.
Yeah, we yeah.
Yeah, well, we decided episode 30, we're going to cap it at that.
We're going to leave you guys off with 30 episodes.
We aren't we're not going to treat it like a real team.
(06:05):
It's not like a TV show or anything.
We're not going to just go away for a whole year or anything.
We anticipate one second.
Let me actually get my phone.
I want to be wrong on this.
I'm
let me get my throat.
So we will be returning.
(06:26):
So we'll be completely just not posting anything all of April.
We intend to be back on May 5th.
So
dot it in your schedules, do whatever you do to remind yourself.
But we will be we will be back.
We just need a little break break.
We just need a little break break.
I think there's a lot going on next month for us.
(06:48):
A lot of decisions being made, a lot of
Bree is going to be finishing school soon.
And by that time, I think in May, she'll just be in her way out.
So yeah, we just got a lot going on in the next month.
And we just really need a little time, if anything, on the show to just to catch up a little bit.
I think it'll be really nice because we'll have a little area to just breathe.
(07:12):
We can record whenever we want.
And it doesn't have to be so late in the night.
So I think that that was just some news that I wanted to run past you guys.
And we'll of course just update you on everything that happens in the next month.
We'll give you another reminder next episode.
But yeah, there's that.
(07:32):
I'll be in New York, which is exciting.
And the big apple.
But speaking of the big apple, a perfect segue into our case
today, it takes place in the big apple.
So let me just get all my notes for you guys.
(07:54):
And let's just dive into the case right now.
So today's case is called the back murders and the last call killer.
And two for one special.
A two for one double feature.
I don't know why I got so excited.
Unfortunately, yeah, two for one special.
(08:17):
Seriously.
All right.
So this story initially starts in 1960s NYC.
And prior to the devastating events of the back murders was
yeah, another big event within the LGBTQ community.
Man, what do people got against the gays?
Girl. Oh, one quick thing I just remembered.
(08:38):
Yeah, this is like our.
How many times have we done?
OK, last last week was it had gays included, but it wasn't fully gays.
What are you doing, Bob?
She's trying to bite the cork.
I can't stop.
OK, she's chilling.
She's chilling. We're good.
Sorry. Would it really be our show
(08:59):
if we didn't get interrupted by Kat, at least once?
No, it wouldn't be. You're right.
I'm so scared as she jumps on like the laptop.
It's over.
So I don't think she will. OK, she's chilling.
She she likes it.
OK, anyways, I'm sorry.
Jesus, we're talking about the gays.
Yeah, we've done a lot of episodes on gays so far.
(09:19):
We love the game. We love the gays.
But yeah, so yeah, that this big event was the 1969 Stonewall
protest and rebellion.
And if anyone doesn't know what the Stonewall uprising was,
it was truly a catalyst for the gay rights movement.
And the United States and globally, quite honestly,
(09:41):
on June 28th, 1969, the New York City police
had raided this gay club called the Stonewall Inn,
which is located in Greenwich.
Sorry, it's called Greenwich.
I think we said Greenwich before last episode.
I can't remember, but probably.
Probably, yeah, it's Greenwich.
So that's Greenwich Village in New York City.
(10:04):
The raid had it in fury.
The raid had infuriated patrons and neighborhood residents
that passed by and eventually everyone in the great
global nation just kind of knew about it.
And unfortunately, at this moment, people just had to watch
police aggressively throw out just employees and patrons out of this bar.
(10:29):
This event led to six days of protests and violent
exchanges with the law enforcement that stood outside of the bar
on Christopher Street and other neighboring streets and Christopher Park.
Now, I did actually visit the Stonewall Inn before.
It's the Stonewall Inn again.
Is it's a club, a gay club?
(10:49):
It's still running.
It's still running. It's a great time, too.
I went.
What year is it?
Twenty three. Twenty three.
I went there in twenty twenty one.
And yes. Yes.
Yeah, we're going to say that. Yeah.
I think that's when I went.
I went in the first time, I think in twenty twenty two.
(11:12):
Twenty twenty. Oh my god, I'm getting confused now. Fuck.
I went in twenty twenty one for sure.
And it was a really good time.
I remember they were playing, I think it was like Madonna Night or something.
I would hope there's such like an important
peak of history, I guess.
Yeah, for the community.
So it's it's super.
(11:33):
They would be, you know, still trucking.
Still trucking along.
Oh, yeah, it's it's it's definitely, I think, just a great place to visit.
If you guys ever are in New York,
Grumwich Village is just a nice place to be at.
They have other places to go to.
To I also find out that same trip
that Kerry Bradshaw's house is also right around the corner,
(11:54):
which I love because fucking love Sex and the City.
And yeah, it's just a great time.
So if you guys are ever there or if you live there, I'm sure you know about it
already, obviously, but it's a great time to visit.
So how does this pertain to the rest of the story?
Well, first of all, after the Stonewall Uprising eventually ended,
(12:16):
the LGBTQ plus community was thriving.
People were dancing in the streets, people through block parties.
The gays were gang.
I'll just say that gays were gang.
The gays were gang, darling.
They're serving hot.
They're serving flawless.
They love it serving serving.
(12:38):
They're serving the server.
They were serving that swirl.
I love it.
Swirl.
I'm also not sure if this sorry.
Sorry, the term for my mic a little bit.
It's a little loud.
I'm also not really sure if this win was eventually inspired by
inspired Bowen culture, but the art form actually started in Harlem, New York
(13:01):
only one year later, which was in defiance of the laws, which banned
individuals from wearing clothes associated with the opposite gender.
So in which they just responded by having competitions and passions
and, you know, in the opposite sex clothing.
So I guess that that I guess I don't know.
(13:23):
Maybe that was compared to I don't know if that was I don't know,
had anything to do with the riots or was at least inspired by it.
But that did happen at the same time.
And a lot of good change was being made to the Gromwich Village community.
Although it only took one monster to ruin that feeling of freedom from the LGBTQ
plus community, because between 1975 and 1976, six dismembered corpses
(13:49):
of unidentified queer men would turn up in the Hudson River in trash bags.
Jesus, we really jump it right into it.
We. Yeah, we went from who to how.
So kidding.
Now you did just hear me say unidentified.
Queer men, I'll explain a little later how they were identified as queer in a sack.
(14:11):
There was already this feeling that the queer community was not protected
by those that were supposed to protect them.
Cock off the police and the police especially did not take a liking to anyone
who was gay at this time.
I truly personally feel like this case, which is tied out the back murders,
could have been solved way sooner had the police put in more care into the case.
(14:36):
Though, unfortunately, the families of these men would never receive answers as to who
and who had committed these murders.
So I believe they're just remaining.
Yeah. And they're just remaining chandos.
Now, the system and the press failed these people because of their sexuality.
People even started coining the murders, the fat, the gay, the gay, the gay.
(14:59):
The murders, the fact and the back murders.
Yeah. It's fucked up.
It's like equally fucked up and like kind of like, huh, I see your humor, but okay.
I see what you did there.
I see you. Fuck you.
Yeah. Yeah. Fuck you.
So as we discussed in our last episode, Curse Films chapter two, if you guys didn't listen,
(15:22):
go back to it.
Yeah, they connect y'all.
Yeah.
In Suspicions did fall on a man named Paul Bateson who had oddly appeared as an extra
in The Exorcist.
Again, it's an interesting episode.
We'll check it out.
So during this trial, during his trial for the murder of Variety reporter Addison Varrell,
(15:47):
many law officials and reporters were left questioning his ties to a case of male bodies
found in the Hudson River.
The suspicions grew after an old friend of his had claimed to hear Paul relish about
killing and dismembering multiple men throughout New York City.
He was never tried for the murders, unfortunately, because there was not enough evidence to
(16:10):
victim of the six murders, but from little comparisons against what he had already did
to one crewman.
It makes sense.
First of all, throughout this period, Paul was known to frequent a club called Anvil
and a club called Mindshaft, which are two queer nightclubs where they were.
(16:30):
I don't know if these nightclubs are really fully into the queer cell culture of leather,
but Paul was recognized to be one that went to clubs that were leather clubs or leather
nights or had leather nights.
And if people don't know again.
(16:51):
So like, I guess to explain a little bit, leather, the term leather, it's kind of, it's
a, it's kind of like a, it's a title, it's kind of, I don't even know how to explain
it really.
It's like a title for a subculture of the queer community.
Yeah.
Who like, like leather bondage almost.
(17:12):
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, explain that you explained it perfectly.
Yeah.
And it's not, I mean, I'm sure at the time people saw it as demonic or some shit.
Oh, probably.
It's 60s, right?
70s.
So yeah.
Easy.
Easy.
And, uh, it was probably demonic as hell.
Yeah.
(17:32):
So unfortunately, I mean, that was the outlook on this.
Already you're gay, then you're doing all this leather stuff and it's dark and it's raunchy.
Not all leather, I will say not all leather parties or things like that are super,
you know, intense things that people might think of when it comes to just leather parties.
They just want to have fun.
(17:53):
They just want to lay back and chill and do their thing, be free, whatever else.
Be themselves.
Be themselves.
Yeah.
And many men that would go generally went to keep things on the low and discreet.
And Paul was known from those around him to be really into, again, the leather subculture.
So when some of the body parts were found, so were their outfits.
(18:20):
The outfits all were leather nightclub gear that tracked back to Greenwich Village, where
a lot of queer men in the community frequented the two leather nightclubs.
I guess they also had tattoos that were kind of like resembling the queer or like queer
symbols.
They also kind of gave it away, but that is pretty much what gave it away that they were
(18:43):
queer.
So there was that.
And then there were never ruled a cause of death nor a name to any of the bodies.
So unfortunately, that sucks.
How did no one know that their people were missing?
Yeah, that's the thing.
No one knows.
Like they, and I think the true problem about this case specifically is just that no one
(19:05):
cared.
The NYPD and the collected and the press and the collected them, they just didn't care.
They saw them as the facts in the bags or whatever they call them.
And I guess at that point too, like some of those people might have been disowned from
their family and disowned.
And that's yeah, I was going to say nine times out of 10.
(19:27):
Yeah, if people are going to move to, you know, New York or something or at this time,
at least they would definitely, if they were curious specifically, and they're on the streets
or something, most of the time it was because their family says own them.
So unfortunately, it's just sad to think that we don't know who these people were.
They still have never identified who these people were.
(19:48):
And the case is technically still cold because they didn't pin anyone for this murder.
Like they didn't put it on anyone.
So it's just out there.
It's just still there.
Which is just so sad.
Now Bateson ultimately was sentenced to 20 years to life in prison in 1979 for the murder
of Addison Verrell, which we talked about before.
(20:12):
And he had served 24 years being released in August of 2003 and went rogue after somewhere
in upstate New York.
And no one was really aware for a long time if he was even still alive.
But curious researchers later had found out from the Social Security death index that
he in fact had passed away in September 15th of 2012.
(20:35):
So he did end up passing away.
But let's keep the scene going.
We're still in New York, 1979.
After Bateson had initially confessed to the murders, a lot of New York residents felt
like they could just breathe again.
And they could just, you know, go back to just things the way things were.
(20:57):
And they could just live their lives in a happy life again.
But sadly, in 1981, the global HIV AIDS epidemic hit.
And it hit hard.
By 1991, the New York queer community were struck with fear again because it seemed that
the back murders weren't long ago and yet they have this epidemic but now more dismembered
(21:22):
bodies turning up.
Yeah.
More dismembered bodies.
On May 6th, 1991, sanitation workers collecting trash near the New Jersey Turnpike find dismembered
remains of an unidentifiable John Doe spread throughout various trash cans all lined up
next to one another.
(21:42):
And I'll say that again.
Bread throughout various trash cans lined up next to each other.
That's not just you're throwing someone's remains into one freaking trash can.
No.
Oh, excuse me, chills.
You're separating them and then placing them side by side.
Yeah, like what's the point?
You could have put them all into one.
(22:04):
Yeah.
And like that sounds morbid, but I don't know.
It makes sense.
Like, is this like as if they caused or they wanted this to happen?
Yeah, the mind of someone who's crazy.
Yeah.
Oh, I don't, uh.
So when police arrived to the scene, they had discovered around the trash cans a black
(22:25):
blood stain bed sheet.
Next to that they saw he saw.
What was that?
That was my hood.
Oh, um, when police arrived to the scene, they had discovered around the trash cans
a black blood stained bed sheet.
Black blood stain?
Yes.
(22:45):
So it was already colored black and had blood all over.
That's, you can't see a lot of blood on the black.
Yeah.
So it's been a lot.
So yeah, and there was that.
And then there was a saw.
So the saw was like right next to it.
And I guess like, I mean, he left all the evidence.
He left all the evidence.
And then on top of that, there was like late latex gloves and they're both completely
(23:09):
covered in blood.
Now the facts, the DNA, I guess this is the 70s.
You and they didn't give a shit.
Yeah.
I don't think DNA.
Well, technically this is the 80s.
This is the 90s now.
So technically.
Oh shit.
Yeah.
They got shit for that.
Wait, but wait, we'll get to it.
They actually don't yet.
We will get there.
I promise.
No, we'll get there.
I promise you.
(23:31):
Inside one of the trash cans though.
So around we have all this scattered evidence and inside the trash cans just sits his wallet
inside one of the trash cans where his body parts have been.
This was identified as 54 year old Peter Anderson.
I know.
(23:53):
Peter was a investment banker from Philadelphia that had been primarily visiting Manhattan
for a political fundraiser.
Now Peter had been married twice to both women and separated from his second marriage the
same year actually that he was unfortunately brutally murdered in 1991.
(24:13):
My sources didn't say whether or not he was out to anyone but after his murder his friends
would later comment that they knew he was kind of into men and after he had finally
got divorced they had figured that he would kind of open up and be a little happier.
But unfortunately he really never came out and leading up to his death.
(24:34):
He just never seemed happy.
So that this is really heartbreaking to even hear.
He left behind two children and witnessed statements claimed that he had been seen
last alive alone at the townhouse bar in Midtown.
Now the townhouse bar was a piano piano almost a pizza piano and jazz club that a lot of
(24:58):
older queer men have frequented at the time.
If not older men it was just younger men attempting you know to pick up some sugar
daddies.
And I know right sounds like me.
And then I think it's still running today.
I'm not sure but I kind of watched one one documentary and it was going on.
(25:20):
It was really recent.
So I think it's still open and just not sure about the clientele these days.
But any who July 1992 one year after the murder of Peter Anderson 57 year old computer cells
rap Thomas Mulcah I hope they said that right was found in the same spot.
(25:40):
Peter Anderson had been found on the same age.
Yeah.
So again it was found that he was dismembered and his remains were spread throughout several
different trash cans and it was near the New Jersey turnpike.
According to sources and court documents Thomas had a have been a father of four that lived
(26:02):
with his wife and children in Massachusetts.
Now his wife actually had reportedly known that Thomas was actively having affairs with
other men or at least she found out which I cannot imagine that situation that she was
in that has to be a lot.
Thomas had flown in from Boston for work in state of Manhattan and he actually had had
(26:24):
a presentation to give at the World Trade Center which rest in peace 9 11 and later
on during an investigation investigators would track Thomas's credit card down to the townhouse
bar once again where Peter Anderson was also seen last a month earlier.
Almost a year goes by so now we're in the spring time maybe May of 1993 and 44 year
(26:50):
old male sex worker by the name of Anthony Marrero is found dead similarly disposed in
trash cans after disappearing months earlier but this time he wasn't dumped at the New
Jersey turnpike the other like the other two.
Anthony's remains have been found in a very rural area of New Jersey this time so it kind
(27:13):
of sounds like maybe this serial killer is getting kind of creative and trying not to
get caught in by yeah getting crafty but it still seems like he's like he said before
getting a little I don't know like he wants you to find these kind of things because he
just had he wants like how can you explain it like he wants the five minutes of fame
(27:40):
without being caught exactly exactly like he wants people to know like what he's doing
but he doesn't want them to know who he yes yeah and yeah I do agree you're definitely
wrong on that part and we'll see how far he gets with this so that same year July of 1993
(28:02):
another dismembered body of an unidentified man was found this time in Rockland County
New York at a rest stop off a highway after investigators took hold of the scene they
had a pathologist identify the John Doe as 56 year old Michael Sakara Michael Sakara
had been openly out as gay and he worked for the New York law journal and was last seen
(28:28):
at Grandwich Village the same area where the six queer men started disappearing a decade
prior and have been labeled the back murders hysteria had again turned into chaos in the
ltbtq plus community wanted this killer caught as soon as possible people were afraid they
were thinking you know I go out all the time now had to stay in the fear is around me I
(28:53):
get it I get it so one big complication that arose from the New York police department was
that this killer's ML seemed really tricky this person this this person would go into
the city to find their victim but then dispose of them outside of the city limits the flock
(29:14):
of officers that came to help this specific case just seem to be a little more caring
or at least more authoritative of the situation rather than the last case I can actually say
but it's still got a little hard for this this case just because I guess it makes sense
if if something happens oh that's a weird situation because I mean in terms of the police unit
(29:40):
you kind of have to leave it to the people that find it I guess in another in another
kind of county or another area so I guess it does get a little gray yeah so eventually
press heck out word and since the serial killers and most seem to be praying on victims at clubs
before they closed they coined the killer the last call killer makes sense now the one thing
(30:06):
I skipped over that is crucial oh are you biting me no I'm so sorry I thought she was
trying to bite me I was like oh Jesus Christ she's not menace she's she is a menace she's
trying to play though no it's okay she's scared I didn't even I didn't even realize she was
(30:33):
that was your leg I thought she was trying I thought you had something dangling that she
was trying to get because I think she sees you move in the apple pencil around and she's
like oh I want to play with it yeah I think she was like thinking about jumping on you
god damn it boo okay I got my fear for the night and Jesus Christ the second time she
scared me so many times and then I scared you with my foot oh yeah you did give me a
(30:58):
little jumpy today so I'm sorry we're here left off the press eventually had coined the
killer the last call killer one thing I had skipped over that's crucial is when the several
bodies were found any evidence had already been found washed of prints so they had really
(31:20):
no nothing to go off of in terms in terms of the prints I know Bree had briefly mentioned
like towards the beginning that it seemed like weird that they left so many different
things laying around they did but there were no prints although there were one bloody hand
print found on one of the scenes but unfortunately right before this case happened they didn't
(31:47):
have any way to effectively look at the prints so yeah there is that the consistent murders
of queer men in New York did seem to stop for a chunk of time after the discovery remains
of Michael Sakara have been found in 1993 although families of all these victims were
(32:09):
left with no idea what happened to their loved ones who had done it and why there was not
a break in this case until 2001 so that really sucks and that means that eight years had
gone by with no lead or answers for any of these murders no justice so unfortunately
(32:33):
in situations like this where the case is never solved right away it just really becomes
forgotten about in the media and not on anyone's mind other than the victims loved ones I guess
and as far as anyone knew the killer could have been long gone at this point the only
reason that this case was even considered to be reopened prior to the break in the case
(32:56):
was because Thomas McCauley or I think it's McCauley the father of four his wife was so
persistent to get justice for him which is crazy this man was having an affair and she
still was there to find out what happened well I feel like in a way it's like yeah be
(33:17):
mad but also in a way it's like you still have love for that person yeah and I he did
have for other children too and like you still have love for that person he's the father
of your kids yeah I'm not surprised like I mean like if I was her I'd be upset like
yeah out that he was having affairs I'd be upset that he was cheating I'd be upset that
(33:39):
he wasn't living his true self yeah but you have to think I guess like he said if you
especially have four kids you've lived a long time together and you have a long history
together it's not like a light switch yeah yeah so yeah that just really sucks and eventually
(34:00):
in 2001 like I said the case was reopened and now DNA testing had evolved to be able
to be applicable for the NYPD to use so this method of DNA testing is called vacuum metal
deposition deposition deposition yeah deposition probably out of where they know yeah something
(34:23):
like that and this technology actually came from the Toronto Police Department at the
time and they had allowed this type of tech to be used for this case for the NYPD so look
at Toronto stepping up to the plate like so this new technology allowed for police to
go back and recover fingerprints from the objects at the crime scenes and lift prints
(34:48):
so this new technology allowed for police to go back and recover fingerprints from the
objects at a crime scene and lift prints after this they can cross examine the prints with
anyone in the police database and figure out if it makes any matches luckily after running
a couple tests their system found a match to the fingerprints of a I said patriotic
(35:16):
what the fuck does I even mean I meant to say a pediatric yes what if I mistype is
it patriotic I said patriotic to anyone say where was wrong it's late yes thank you yeah
he had been a PGA page pediatric she said it nurse at the Mount Sinai Hospital and this
(35:43):
person's name was Richard Rogers all right now the question stands as to why a pediatric
pediatric thank you nurse was found in their database with a criminal record yeah no kidding
(36:07):
so it turns out that this Richard Rogers guy already had prints taken from a murder he
had already committed you know I just realized Bateson and Rogers now are both working in
health what's going on there in New York I don't know but moving on they really did
in 1973 Richard was tried for the murder of his then roommate Fred Spencer while attending
(36:34):
University of Maine apparently for unknown reasons Richard decided one day to grab a
claw hammer and beat his housemate to death with it but for reasons we we won't ever
understand Richard faced a murder trial for this and was just exonerated yeah so who the
(36:59):
fuck is this Richard Rogers guy well Richard Rogers was born June 16th 1950 in Plymouth
Massachusetts he was the eldest of five other siblings and was raised by both his father
which was he was a lobster man which I think it's like yeah I don't know if that's a cook
or you catch lobsters but his mother was a telephone operator so he had that he had
(37:24):
five siblings and I lost my place okay a telephone operator thank you since the early years Richard
parents kind of had a hunch that their son had been queer but that wasn't the main concern
(37:44):
because what the main concern was had happened in the late 1960s it was between either 1966
or 1967 I get both no matter the way I look at it Richard being around 17 at the time
had literally grabbed a knife walked next door to his utterly neighbor's house and just
(38:05):
stabbed her and it got him institutionalized and released in 1968 only one year later
yeah yeah yeah allowing him to graduate high school yeah now yeah I know same minus two
now in the university he attended Florida Southern College and he had went for his
(38:32):
bachelor's degree he was well known to be very quiet and very to himself but eventually
he graduated went to University of Maine in 1973 for a graduates program this is when
on April 28th 1973 Richard struck his housemate on the back of the head eight times according
(38:54):
to autopsy reports Fratric Spencer was still alive he had been bludgeoned eight times was
still alive yeah it wasn't the official cause of death Fratric died from asphyxiation so
basically he was being bludgeoned to a pulp and wasn't enough for Richard so he just
(39:18):
decided to place a plastic bag over his head until he wasn't breathing so keep in mind
this was all happening in Maine at the time not New York so Richard drove from home near
the University of Maine down routes 116 until he got to a forest called Bird Street and
he had just dumped his body there like it was nothing he was found days later on May
(39:44):
1st 1973 by two cyclists and police found Fratric's post office key still in his pocket and they
chased it back to the home where they found so much blood in the apartment crazy amounts
now no accurate reason came from the reason why Richard decided to do this to his name
(40:08):
but his housemate for no reason or his neighbor but his housemate and according to court files
on this case the two did not get along very well during this interrogation Richard claimed
that it was self-defense which he took to court to explain to jury insisting that his
roommate attempted to attack him with a roofing hammer he got a hold of it and struck Fratric
(40:32):
eight times in the head and after deliberating for only three hours the jury found Richard
not guilty how the fuck do you not find someone guilty you just whack someone in the head eight
times you then place a plastic bag over their head how is that not murder how is that self-defense
stab delayed like how many years ago yeah yeah he went yeah you're kidding you're kidding
(40:57):
me so after being acquitted in 1973 Richard had moved to New York where he practiced and
studied at Pace University's School of Nursing which quick side note I actually was supposed
to go to Pace University we see where that happened so I stayed here in Michigan shout
out Pace University a pace how's it going I have some friends there too well anyways
(41:21):
he graduated in 1978 and hired and was soon hired after into the Mount Sinai Medical Center
to work in the pediatric ward this led up to I said that right oh my god this led up to
2001 when the police finally got a lead on Richard who they learned have been a pretty
(41:45):
appalling person to say the least now we're back at May 28th 2001 so please want it Richard
to willingly come to the station they went to his shop at Mount Sinai where they tell
him hey we think you're a victim of credit card fraud will you agree to come with us
and come to the station to answer some questions and Richard just says yeah sure so stupid stupid
(42:15):
so as Richard gets to the interrogation room detectives just come right and say it sorry
dude but we're not here for some credit card scheme we've been investigating this murder
case and you're a prime suspect not a direct coat but that's a good part of what they
said at first Richard plate Koi acting like you didn't really know what they were talking
(42:38):
about then he admitted that he recognized the last known victim Michael Sakura but he quickly
realized that the police had already known and linked him to these murders so he just
came right out and said nothing more actually he just left it at that so he requested that
he just get an attorney until investigators could construct a solid case against him they
(43:04):
held this asshole bail bond at one million dollars so he wasn't going anywhere and and
during the search of Richard's home in Jersey investigators just started to find more and
more evidence to find Richard guilty of the murders and they would use this in court period
(43:28):
October 26 2005 was when his trial finally began during jury selection Richard was offered
a plea deal this plea deal said if he pleaded guilty to manslaughter he'd only receive
two thirty two year sentences with the possibility of parole after 15 years I said only that's
(43:50):
a self-life sentence on top of this deal he was also though offered another plea deal
that basically just said if he pleaded guilty to the third degree murder of the investment
baker that I had mentioned Peter Anderson he will only receive 10 to 20 years in prison
so you're telling so just to simplify this he's given these plea deals they simplified
(44:19):
it down to 10 to 20 years in prison for the murders of dozen or not even a dozen but who
knows how many people and they're just gonna be like yeah you can take it you can leave
it yeah yeah but fortunately Rogers decided to decline the deal so yeah I know right no
(44:40):
asshole deserves to be walking around freely like that now during trial several witnesses
testified against Richard some of these being some witnesses that discovered the slider remains
the fingerprint comparison analyst and the investigators themselves when searching through
Richard's home their investigators had told the jury that they reported finding a medication
(45:04):
often used as a date rape drug called for said highlighted passages in a book mentioning
decapitation and dismemberment a New Jersey roadmap marked exactly where the bodies have
been placed boiling hot see polaroids of shirtless men with stab wounds drawn on them oh my god
(45:33):
oh oh oh and you know what you know what else what carpet fryers found consistent to the
ones found on Thomas McCauley's body it's almost it's almost like he did it like oh
my god so they actually found him one more thing that they also found the plastic bags
the same plastic bags that were made by the same plastic bags or that bodies are found
(45:58):
in so there's that too one leak later in November 2005 after three hours and 45 minutes
of deliberating the jury found Richard Rogers guilty on all charges Richard was sentenced
to two consecutive life sentences for unfortunately only two of the murders the murders that he
(46:23):
was tried for were 44 year old Anthony Moreiro I think I said that right and 57 year old
Thomas McCauley so that is pretty much the end of that story yeah wow yeah that that's
a whole lot of bullshit yeah I just thought that was a crazy case and I kind of hope I
(46:50):
kind of tied the two cases in kind of okay all around I just think it's just so crazy
that um two serial killers back to back like decade to decade or era to era could just
uh uh in the same place uh but I hope that you guys found that story interesting I hope
(47:14):
that um I don't even know what to say next after that how do you even come back for that
that's a lot as always our hearts go out to the families of those victims and that's just
terrible about the ones that didn't even get identified yeah yeah that is and it's like
it's like Paul is unfortunately not alive anymore so we will never know that's not unfortunate
(47:40):
well it's unfortunate is sake that like fortunate that we won't be able to know fortunate that
he's not alive because oh we don't yeah we don't we don't care about him but we do care
about the fact that he took to his grave yeah what he did with these people and we don't
even know who they are yeah that that really is unfortunate part with the um which are
(48:01):
the side of things uh like uh it's just crazy to me but um he is still alive to this day
he is uh held in prison for the rest of his life but he is alive so if you like to send
him a box of shit you can do that go for it say it's from us it's fine well with that
(48:24):
um I think we can wrap up this episode for us uh stick with us till next week we have
a fun episode coming up for you guys can't wait for it cute spooky episode yay great
way to wrap up our season and um I think I think that's all I don't really have anything
to wrap up with us other than follow us yeah you know where to find us you know where to
(48:48):
find us WTLGO podcast basically everywhere um and then you can also send us an email
if you like to that is WTLGO inquiries so everything else is WTLGO podcast then you
have our email and yeah that's about it make sure to follow us make sure to uh send us
(49:12):
love and anyway you know how to and with that we will see you next when the lights goes
up take it easy everyone bye you need the sound of like the clicking of a light bulb
click oh I should throw it in when you pull the lamp like a lamp shade down yeah shade
but the pull like that's got the chain oh I'm chained up we'll see you when the lights
(49:37):
goes up bye
Oh, oh, hello there. Welcome back.
(00:03):
Well, I guess if you're just starting this series of ours, welcome.
But if you're coming back, welcome back. And I am Kendall.
And I'm Bri with Guest Star Boo.
Hey, boo.
Be here at Perrin. She's here again.
And this is when the light goes out.
(00:34):
She doesn't meow a lot, but that would be cute.
That would be cute. Gosh.
OK, well, oh, my God.
I don't know why I'm so jittery today.
I haven't had no coffee, but you know what?
Probably the lack of coffee.
Lack of coffee. Yeah. Yeah, that's true.
Lack of coffee.
But I've also been very dedicated to the gym lately.
(00:55):
I'm so proud of myself. Yeah.
Thank you. I I'm sure everyone or not everyone,
but I'm sure a lot out there go regularly and they're like,
it's not that hard, but hey, it's a big step for me.
So yeah, I mean, for some people, like, yeah,
I had never stepped foot in a gym.
And so Simon's sister took me one time or two times.
(01:18):
Two times. Oh, first.
Sounds like the first time I've ever been to a gym.
Someone had to take me there.
And I'm like, oh, OK, this is OK.
I guess. And I only went because I wanted to hang out with her.
Unless I wanted to go to the gym.
I've been on a couple of dates, gym dates,
which I don't strongly suggest those.
Maybe you maybe you guys do.
Maybe you guys are super big
gym worker at outers at the time or something.
(01:40):
And you guys love doing that stuff.
But me, oh, no, I will never again.
I feel like it's not like a very personable.
No, at least not for like a first or second day,
maybe like a couple of dates.
Yeah. Or there's like this one time that I had.
Oh, what did I do? Where do we go?
Oh, girl, I got so many stories.
You can't even remember.
(02:03):
She's right. No, I. Where was I?
Fuck. Oh, we went to get we went to do.
Um, not yoga, but Pilates.
We went to do Pilates together.
But first we got high, like a first date thing.
Yeah. OK.
But, um, yeah, we had gotten high.
Went into the little studio.
(02:23):
He actually worked there, too.
We went to a little studio and she's like, OK.
No, she first day works there.
Yeah, he does.
Um, so, yeah, that that date happened.
It was a nice little plotty sesh with one of his good friends.
I work there and it was awkward because I'm like, at first,
(02:44):
I didn't know he worked there.
I was like, oh, you work here because we're like sitting
as cars smoking or whatever.
And he was like, yeah, I work here.
I was like, oh, shit.
So, yeah, there's that.
I remember later later that day, I got a ticket from Detroit.
It was like, whoa, it was like a whopping fifty five dollars.
For what?
For parking in a handicap accident.
(03:07):
I was about to say it has to be a parking ticket
because that's the only thing Detroit cops are.
I guess that's not even the cops.
So like the meter maids.
Yeah, the cops in Detroit.
You know, they're there.
They don't care about shit.
Well, in my driving, they don't care.
Yeah, the beating.
No, they don't care. They don't give a shit.
Well, you're doing like a hundred and like a thirty five.
(03:29):
OK, yeah, that that that's if you're doing like
forty, forty five, fifty.
Well, it's going to say I didn't even want to go at the time
because I was downtown at like some some bar
visiting a friend with a friend and I parked like on the street.
And I didn't even know I was parking here like the handicapped
because the sign was so far away from where I parked.
(03:50):
Apparently still apply to that area.
So I was like, you probably could have fought that shit.
I know. And everyone said that at the time.
I was just being lazy. I just paid it.
Yeah, I mean, that's just annoying.
And parking is so fucking annoying.
Yeah. Oh, my God, I'm sorry.
Well, fuck you.
There. Yeah, I was just going to say, oh,
Cass, that new thing where they they give me every time.
(04:12):
Every time I park in real oak, they like have this like sensor thing.
So like if you back your car up and you like park there,
if you don't pay it right then and there, they're going to take a picture
of her because they have little cameras next side of them. Yeah.
Well, seriously, fuck you.
And they're confusing.
Like they are.
Like, I don't know which one is supposed to be like the spot that I'm
(04:36):
parking and like the number and like they're so high tech.
Like I know how to pay a Detroit parking meter,
but like a Royal Oak when I don't fucking get it.
It's all like app. You have to go on the app.
You have to get this shit. You have to pay it that way.
I come here once I got in here.
Yeah, they do it on purpose just to get you.
Yeah, I'm sure they do it.
Ten dollars.
Yeah, I'm sure they do it so many other places.
(04:58):
But yeah, there's that.
But we won't waste too much more time on our little ticket talks.
Our Ted talks.
Our Ted talks.
About our lives.
We're just going to start before we even start our case today.
Just a quick.
(05:20):
I guess just some some news for you guys,
just so you guys aren't too like, well, what's going on next episode?
So we're at episode 29, right?
Obviously episode 30 comes next week for you guys.
And then that actually wraps up our first season, I guess, on our record.
It does. Long enough.
(05:42):
Seasons long season.
Yeah, shameless or something.
No, seriously.
No, seriously.
It's been two seasons.
I know. Fuck.
Yeah, we yeah.
Yeah, well, we decided episode 30, we're going to cap it at that.
We're going to leave you guys off with 30 episodes.
We aren't we're not going to treat it like a real team.
(06:05):
It's not like a TV show or anything.
We're not going to just go away for a whole year or anything.
We anticipate one second.
Let me actually get my phone.
I want to be wrong on this.
I'm
let me get my throat.
So we will be returning.
(06:26):
So we'll be completely just not posting anything all of April.
We intend to be back on May 5th.
So
dot it in your schedules, do whatever you do to remind yourself.
But we will be we will be back.
We just need a little break break.
We just need a little break break.
I think there's a lot going on next month for us.
(06:48):
A lot of decisions being made, a lot of
Bree is going to be finishing school soon.
And by that time, I think in May, she'll just be in her way out.
So yeah, we just got a lot going on in the next month.
And we just really need a little time, if anything, on the show to just to catch up a little bit.
I think it'll be really nice because we'll have a little area to just breathe.
(07:12):
We can record whenever we want.
And it doesn't have to be so late in the night.
So I think that that was just some news that I wanted to run past you guys.
And we'll of course just update you on everything that happens in the next month.
We'll give you another reminder next episode.
But yeah, there's that.
(07:32):
I'll be in New York, which is exciting.
And the big apple.
But speaking of the big apple, a perfect segue into our case
today, it takes place in the big apple.
So let me just get all my notes for you guys.
(07:54):
And let's just dive into the case right now.
So today's case is called the back murders and the last call killer.
And two for one special.
A two for one double feature.
I don't know why I got so excited.
Unfortunately, yeah, two for one special.
(08:17):
Seriously.
All right.
So this story initially starts in 1960s NYC.
And prior to the devastating events of the back murders was
yeah, another big event within the LGBTQ community.
Man, what do people got against the gays?
Girl. Oh, one quick thing I just remembered.
(08:38):
Yeah, this is like our.
How many times have we done?
OK, last last week was it had gays included, but it wasn't fully gays.
What are you doing, Bob?
She's trying to bite the cork.
I can't stop.
OK, she's chilling.
She's chilling. We're good.
Sorry. Would it really be our show
(08:59):
if we didn't get interrupted by Kat, at least once?
No, it wouldn't be. You're right.
I'm so scared as she jumps on like the laptop.
It's over.
So I don't think she will. OK, she's chilling.
She she likes it.
OK, anyways, I'm sorry.
Jesus, we're talking about the gays.
Yeah, we've done a lot of episodes on gays so far.
(09:19):
We love the game. We love the gays.
But yeah, so yeah, that this big event was the 1969 Stonewall
protest and rebellion.
And if anyone doesn't know what the Stonewall uprising was,
it was truly a catalyst for the gay rights movement.
And the United States and globally, quite honestly,
(09:41):
on June 28th, 1969, the New York City police
had raided this gay club called the Stonewall Inn,
which is located in Greenwich.
Sorry, it's called Greenwich.
I think we said Greenwich before last episode.
I can't remember, but probably.
Probably, yeah, it's Greenwich.
So that's Greenwich Village in New York City.
(10:04):
The raid had it in fury.
The raid had infuriated patrons and neighborhood residents
that passed by and eventually everyone in the great
global nation just kind of knew about it.
And unfortunately, at this moment, people just had to watch
police aggressively throw out just employees and patrons out of this bar.
(10:29):
This event led to six days of protests and violent
exchanges with the law enforcement that stood outside of the bar
on Christopher Street and other neighboring streets and Christopher Park.
Now, I did actually visit the Stonewall Inn before.
It's the Stonewall Inn again.
Is it's a club, a gay club?
(10:49):
It's still running.
It's still running. It's a great time, too.
I went.
What year is it?
Twenty three. Twenty three.
I went there in twenty twenty one.
And yes. Yes.
Yeah, we're going to say that. Yeah.
I think that's when I went.
I went in the first time, I think in twenty twenty two.
(11:12):
Twenty twenty. Oh my god, I'm getting confused now. Fuck.
I went in twenty twenty one for sure.
And it was a really good time.
I remember they were playing, I think it was like Madonna Night or something.
I would hope there's such like an important
peak of history, I guess.
Yeah, for the community.
So it's it's super.
(11:33):
They would be, you know, still trucking.
Still trucking along.
Oh, yeah, it's it's it's definitely, I think, just a great place to visit.
If you guys ever are in New York,
Grumwich Village is just a nice place to be at.
They have other places to go to.
To I also find out that same trip
that Kerry Bradshaw's house is also right around the corner,
(11:54):
which I love because fucking love Sex and the City.
And yeah, it's just a great time.
So if you guys are ever there or if you live there, I'm sure you know about it
already, obviously, but it's a great time to visit.
So how does this pertain to the rest of the story?
Well, first of all, after the Stonewall Uprising eventually ended,
(12:16):
the LGBTQ plus community was thriving.
People were dancing in the streets, people through block parties.
The gays were gang.
I'll just say that gays were gang.
The gays were gang, darling.
They're serving hot.
They're serving flawless.
They love it serving serving.
(12:38):
They're serving the server.
They were serving that swirl.
I love it.
Swirl.
I'm also not sure if this sorry.
Sorry, the term for my mic a little bit.
It's a little loud.
I'm also not really sure if this win was eventually inspired by
inspired Bowen culture, but the art form actually started in Harlem, New York
(13:01):
only one year later, which was in defiance of the laws, which banned
individuals from wearing clothes associated with the opposite gender.
So in which they just responded by having competitions and passions
and, you know, in the opposite sex clothing.
So I guess that that I guess I don't know.
(13:23):
Maybe that was compared to I don't know if that was I don't know,
had anything to do with the riots or was at least inspired by it.
But that did happen at the same time.
And a lot of good change was being made to the Gromwich Village community.
Although it only took one monster to ruin that feeling of freedom from the LGBTQ
plus community, because between 1975 and 1976, six dismembered corpses
(13:49):
of unidentified queer men would turn up in the Hudson River in trash bags.
Jesus, we really jump it right into it.
We. Yeah, we went from who to how.
So kidding.
Now you did just hear me say unidentified.
Queer men, I'll explain a little later how they were identified as queer in a sack.
(14:11):
There was already this feeling that the queer community was not protected
by those that were supposed to protect them.
Cock off the police and the police especially did not take a liking to anyone
who was gay at this time.
I truly personally feel like this case, which is tied out the back murders,
could have been solved way sooner had the police put in more care into the case.
(14:36):
Though, unfortunately, the families of these men would never receive answers as to who
and who had committed these murders.
So I believe they're just remaining.
Yeah. And they're just remaining chandos.
Now, the system and the press failed these people because of their sexuality.
People even started coining the murders, the fat, the gay, the gay, the gay.
(14:59):
The murders, the fact and the back murders.
Yeah. It's fucked up.
It's like equally fucked up and like kind of like, huh, I see your humor, but okay.
I see what you did there.
I see you. Fuck you.
Yeah. Yeah. Fuck you.
So as we discussed in our last episode, Curse Films chapter two, if you guys didn't listen,
(15:22):
go back to it.
Yeah, they connect y'all.
Yeah.
In Suspicions did fall on a man named Paul Bateson who had oddly appeared as an extra
in The Exorcist.
Again, it's an interesting episode.
We'll check it out.
So during this trial, during his trial for the murder of Variety reporter Addison Varrell,
(15:47):
many law officials and reporters were left questioning his ties to a case of male bodies
found in the Hudson River.
The suspicions grew after an old friend of his had claimed to hear Paul relish about
killing and dismembering multiple men throughout New York City.
He was never tried for the murders, unfortunately, because there was not enough evidence to
(16:10):
victim of the six murders, but from little comparisons against what he had already did
to one crewman.
It makes sense.
First of all, throughout this period, Paul was known to frequent a club called Anvil
and a club called Mindshaft, which are two queer nightclubs where they were.
(16:30):
I don't know if these nightclubs are really fully into the queer cell culture of leather,
but Paul was recognized to be one that went to clubs that were leather clubs or leather
nights or had leather nights.
And if people don't know again.
(16:51):
So like, I guess to explain a little bit, leather, the term leather, it's kind of, it's
a, it's kind of like a, it's a title, it's kind of, I don't even know how to explain
it really.
It's like a title for a subculture of the queer community.
Yeah.
Who like, like leather bondage almost.
(17:12):
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, explain that you explained it perfectly.
Yeah.
And it's not, I mean, I'm sure at the time people saw it as demonic or some shit.
Oh, probably.
It's 60s, right?
70s.
So yeah.
Easy.
Easy.
And, uh, it was probably demonic as hell.
Yeah.
(17:32):
So unfortunately, I mean, that was the outlook on this.
Already you're gay, then you're doing all this leather stuff and it's dark and it's raunchy.
Not all leather, I will say not all leather parties or things like that are super,
you know, intense things that people might think of when it comes to just leather parties.
They just want to have fun.
(17:53):
They just want to lay back and chill and do their thing, be free, whatever else.
Be themselves.
Be themselves.
Yeah.
And many men that would go generally went to keep things on the low and discreet.
And Paul was known from those around him to be really into, again, the leather subculture.
So when some of the body parts were found, so were their outfits.
(18:20):
The outfits all were leather nightclub gear that tracked back to Greenwich Village, where
a lot of queer men in the community frequented the two leather nightclubs.
I guess they also had tattoos that were kind of like resembling the queer or like queer
symbols.
They also kind of gave it away, but that is pretty much what gave it away that they were
(18:43):
queer.
So there was that.
And then there were never ruled a cause of death nor a name to any of the bodies.
So unfortunately, that sucks.
How did no one know that their people were missing?
Yeah, that's the thing.
No one knows.
Like they, and I think the true problem about this case specifically is just that no one
(19:05):
cared.
The NYPD and the collected and the press and the collected them, they just didn't care.
They saw them as the facts in the bags or whatever they call them.
And I guess at that point too, like some of those people might have been disowned from
their family and disowned.
And that's yeah, I was going to say nine times out of 10.
(19:27):
Yeah, if people are going to move to, you know, New York or something or at this time,
at least they would definitely, if they were curious specifically, and they're on the streets
or something, most of the time it was because their family says own them.
So unfortunately, it's just sad to think that we don't know who these people were.
They still have never identified who these people were.
(19:48):
And the case is technically still cold because they didn't pin anyone for this murder.
Like they didn't put it on anyone.
So it's just out there.
It's just still there.
Which is just so sad.
Now Bateson ultimately was sentenced to 20 years to life in prison in 1979 for the murder
of Addison Verrell, which we talked about before.
(20:12):
And he had served 24 years being released in August of 2003 and went rogue after somewhere
in upstate New York.
And no one was really aware for a long time if he was even still alive.
But curious researchers later had found out from the Social Security death index that
he in fact had passed away in September 15th of 2012.
(20:35):
So he did end up passing away.
But let's keep the scene going.
We're still in New York, 1979.
After Bateson had initially confessed to the murders, a lot of New York residents felt
like they could just breathe again.
And they could just, you know, go back to just things the way things were.
(20:57):
And they could just live their lives in a happy life again.
But sadly, in 1981, the global HIV AIDS epidemic hit.
And it hit hard.
By 1991, the New York queer community were struck with fear again because it seemed that
the back murders weren't long ago and yet they have this epidemic but now more dismembered
(21:22):
bodies turning up.
Yeah.
More dismembered bodies.
On May 6th, 1991, sanitation workers collecting trash near the New Jersey Turnpike find dismembered
remains of an unidentifiable John Doe spread throughout various trash cans all lined up
next to one another.
(21:42):
And I'll say that again.
Bread throughout various trash cans lined up next to each other.
That's not just you're throwing someone's remains into one freaking trash can.
No.
Oh, excuse me, chills.
You're separating them and then placing them side by side.
Yeah, like what's the point?
You could have put them all into one.
(22:04):
Yeah.
And like that sounds morbid, but I don't know.
It makes sense.
Like, is this like as if they caused or they wanted this to happen?
Yeah, the mind of someone who's crazy.
Yeah.
Oh, I don't, uh.
So when police arrived to the scene, they had discovered around the trash cans a black
(22:25):
blood stain bed sheet.
Next to that they saw he saw.
What was that?
That was my hood.
Oh, um, when police arrived to the scene, they had discovered around the trash cans
a black blood stained bed sheet.
Black blood stain?
Yes.
(22:45):
So it was already colored black and had blood all over.
That's, you can't see a lot of blood on the black.
Yeah.
So it's been a lot.
So yeah, and there was that.
And then there was a saw.
So the saw was like right next to it.
And I guess like, I mean, he left all the evidence.
He left all the evidence.
And then on top of that, there was like late latex gloves and they're both completely
(23:09):
covered in blood.
Now the facts, the DNA, I guess this is the 70s.
You and they didn't give a shit.
Yeah.
I don't think DNA.
Well, technically this is the 80s.
This is the 90s now.
So technically.
Oh shit.
Yeah.
They got shit for that.
Wait, but wait, we'll get to it.
They actually don't yet.
We will get there.
I promise.
No, we'll get there.
I promise you.
(23:31):
Inside one of the trash cans though.
So around we have all this scattered evidence and inside the trash cans just sits his wallet
inside one of the trash cans where his body parts have been.
This was identified as 54 year old Peter Anderson.
I know.
(23:53):
Peter was a investment banker from Philadelphia that had been primarily visiting Manhattan
for a political fundraiser.
Now Peter had been married twice to both women and separated from his second marriage the
same year actually that he was unfortunately brutally murdered in 1991.
(24:13):
My sources didn't say whether or not he was out to anyone but after his murder his friends
would later comment that they knew he was kind of into men and after he had finally
got divorced they had figured that he would kind of open up and be a little happier.
But unfortunately he really never came out and leading up to his death.
(24:34):
He just never seemed happy.
So that this is really heartbreaking to even hear.
He left behind two children and witnessed statements claimed that he had been seen
last alive alone at the townhouse bar in Midtown.
Now the townhouse bar was a piano piano almost a pizza piano and jazz club that a lot of
(24:58):
older queer men have frequented at the time.
If not older men it was just younger men attempting you know to pick up some sugar
daddies.
And I know right sounds like me.
And then I think it's still running today.
I'm not sure but I kind of watched one one documentary and it was going on.
(25:20):
It was really recent.
So I think it's still open and just not sure about the clientele these days.
But any who July 1992 one year after the murder of Peter Anderson 57 year old computer cells
rap Thomas Mulcah I hope they said that right was found in the same spot.
(25:40):
Peter Anderson had been found on the same age.
Yeah.
So again it was found that he was dismembered and his remains were spread throughout several
different trash cans and it was near the New Jersey turnpike.
According to sources and court documents Thomas had a have been a father of four that lived
(26:02):
with his wife and children in Massachusetts.
Now his wife actually had reportedly known that Thomas was actively having affairs with
other men or at least she found out which I cannot imagine that situation that she was
in that has to be a lot.
Thomas had flown in from Boston for work in state of Manhattan and he actually had had
(26:24):
a presentation to give at the World Trade Center which rest in peace 9 11 and later
on during an investigation investigators would track Thomas's credit card down to the townhouse
bar once again where Peter Anderson was also seen last a month earlier.
Almost a year goes by so now we're in the spring time maybe May of 1993 and 44 year
(26:50):
old male sex worker by the name of Anthony Marrero is found dead similarly disposed in
trash cans after disappearing months earlier but this time he wasn't dumped at the New
Jersey turnpike the other like the other two.
Anthony's remains have been found in a very rural area of New Jersey this time so it kind
(27:13):
of sounds like maybe this serial killer is getting kind of creative and trying not to
get caught in by yeah getting crafty but it still seems like he's like he said before
getting a little I don't know like he wants you to find these kind of things because he
just had he wants like how can you explain it like he wants the five minutes of fame
(27:40):
without being caught exactly exactly like he wants people to know like what he's doing
but he doesn't want them to know who he yes yeah and yeah I do agree you're definitely
wrong on that part and we'll see how far he gets with this so that same year July of 1993
(28:02):
another dismembered body of an unidentified man was found this time in Rockland County
New York at a rest stop off a highway after investigators took hold of the scene they
had a pathologist identify the John Doe as 56 year old Michael Sakara Michael Sakara
had been openly out as gay and he worked for the New York law journal and was last seen
(28:28):
at Grandwich Village the same area where the six queer men started disappearing a decade
prior and have been labeled the back murders hysteria had again turned into chaos in the
ltbtq plus community wanted this killer caught as soon as possible people were afraid they
were thinking you know I go out all the time now had to stay in the fear is around me I
(28:53):
get it I get it so one big complication that arose from the New York police department was
that this killer's ML seemed really tricky this person this this person would go into
the city to find their victim but then dispose of them outside of the city limits the flock
(29:14):
of officers that came to help this specific case just seem to be a little more caring
or at least more authoritative of the situation rather than the last case I can actually say
but it's still got a little hard for this this case just because I guess it makes sense
if if something happens oh that's a weird situation because I mean in terms of the police unit
(29:40):
you kind of have to leave it to the people that find it I guess in another in another
kind of county or another area so I guess it does get a little gray yeah so eventually
press heck out word and since the serial killers and most seem to be praying on victims at clubs
before they closed they coined the killer the last call killer makes sense now the one thing
(30:06):
I skipped over that is crucial oh are you biting me no I'm so sorry I thought she was
trying to bite me I was like oh Jesus Christ she's not menace she's she is a menace she's
trying to play though no it's okay she's scared I didn't even I didn't even realize she was
(30:33):
that was your leg I thought she was trying I thought you had something dangling that she
was trying to get because I think she sees you move in the apple pencil around and she's
like oh I want to play with it yeah I think she was like thinking about jumping on you
god damn it boo okay I got my fear for the night and Jesus Christ the second time she
scared me so many times and then I scared you with my foot oh yeah you did give me a
(30:58):
little jumpy today so I'm sorry we're here left off the press eventually had coined the
killer the last call killer one thing I had skipped over that's crucial is when the several
bodies were found any evidence had already been found washed of prints so they had really
(31:20):
no nothing to go off of in terms in terms of the prints I know Bree had briefly mentioned
like towards the beginning that it seemed like weird that they left so many different
things laying around they did but there were no prints although there were one bloody hand
print found on one of the scenes but unfortunately right before this case happened they didn't
(31:47):
have any way to effectively look at the prints so yeah there is that the consistent murders
of queer men in New York did seem to stop for a chunk of time after the discovery remains
of Michael Sakara have been found in 1993 although families of all these victims were
(32:09):
left with no idea what happened to their loved ones who had done it and why there was not
a break in this case until 2001 so that really sucks and that means that eight years had
gone by with no lead or answers for any of these murders no justice so unfortunately
(32:33):
in situations like this where the case is never solved right away it just really becomes
forgotten about in the media and not on anyone's mind other than the victims loved ones I guess
and as far as anyone knew the killer could have been long gone at this point the only
reason that this case was even considered to be reopened prior to the break in the case
(32:56):
was because Thomas McCauley or I think it's McCauley the father of four his wife was so
persistent to get justice for him which is crazy this man was having an affair and she
still was there to find out what happened well I feel like in a way it's like yeah be
(33:17):
mad but also in a way it's like you still have love for that person yeah and I he did
have for other children too and like you still have love for that person he's the father
of your kids yeah I'm not surprised like I mean like if I was her I'd be upset like
yeah out that he was having affairs I'd be upset that he was cheating I'd be upset that
(33:39):
he wasn't living his true self yeah but you have to think I guess like he said if you
especially have four kids you've lived a long time together and you have a long history
together it's not like a light switch yeah yeah so yeah that just really sucks and eventually
(34:00):
in 2001 like I said the case was reopened and now DNA testing had evolved to be able
to be applicable for the NYPD to use so this method of DNA testing is called vacuum metal
deposition deposition deposition yeah deposition probably out of where they know yeah something
(34:23):
like that and this technology actually came from the Toronto Police Department at the
time and they had allowed this type of tech to be used for this case for the NYPD so look
at Toronto stepping up to the plate like so this new technology allowed for police to
go back and recover fingerprints from the objects at the crime scenes and lift prints
(34:48):
so this new technology allowed for police to go back and recover fingerprints from the
objects at a crime scene and lift prints after this they can cross examine the prints with
anyone in the police database and figure out if it makes any matches luckily after running
a couple tests their system found a match to the fingerprints of a I said patriotic
(35:16):
what the fuck does I even mean I meant to say a pediatric yes what if I mistype is
it patriotic I said patriotic to anyone say where was wrong it's late yes thank you yeah
he had been a PGA page pediatric she said it nurse at the Mount Sinai Hospital and this
(35:43):
person's name was Richard Rogers all right now the question stands as to why a pediatric
pediatric thank you nurse was found in their database with a criminal record yeah no kidding
(36:07):
so it turns out that this Richard Rogers guy already had prints taken from a murder he
had already committed you know I just realized Bateson and Rogers now are both working in
health what's going on there in New York I don't know but moving on they really did
in 1973 Richard was tried for the murder of his then roommate Fred Spencer while attending
(36:34):
University of Maine apparently for unknown reasons Richard decided one day to grab a
claw hammer and beat his housemate to death with it but for reasons we we won't ever
understand Richard faced a murder trial for this and was just exonerated yeah so who the
(36:59):
fuck is this Richard Rogers guy well Richard Rogers was born June 16th 1950 in Plymouth
Massachusetts he was the eldest of five other siblings and was raised by both his father
which was he was a lobster man which I think it's like yeah I don't know if that's a cook
or you catch lobsters but his mother was a telephone operator so he had that he had
(37:24):
five siblings and I lost my place okay a telephone operator thank you since the early years Richard
parents kind of had a hunch that their son had been queer but that wasn't the main concern
(37:44):
because what the main concern was had happened in the late 1960s it was between either 1966
or 1967 I get both no matter the way I look at it Richard being around 17 at the time
had literally grabbed a knife walked next door to his utterly neighbor's house and just
(38:05):
stabbed her and it got him institutionalized and released in 1968 only one year later
yeah yeah yeah allowing him to graduate high school yeah now yeah I know same minus two
now in the university he attended Florida Southern College and he had went for his
(38:32):
bachelor's degree he was well known to be very quiet and very to himself but eventually
he graduated went to University of Maine in 1973 for a graduates program this is when
on April 28th 1973 Richard struck his housemate on the back of the head eight times according
(38:54):
to autopsy reports Fratric Spencer was still alive he had been bludgeoned eight times was
still alive yeah it wasn't the official cause of death Fratric died from asphyxiation so
basically he was being bludgeoned to a pulp and wasn't enough for Richard so he just
(39:18):
decided to place a plastic bag over his head until he wasn't breathing so keep in mind
this was all happening in Maine at the time not New York so Richard drove from home near
the University of Maine down routes 116 until he got to a forest called Bird Street and
he had just dumped his body there like it was nothing he was found days later on May
(39:44):
1st 1973 by two cyclists and police found Fratric's post office key still in his pocket and they
chased it back to the home where they found so much blood in the apartment crazy amounts
now no accurate reason came from the reason why Richard decided to do this to his name
(40:08):
but his housemate for no reason or his neighbor but his housemate and according to court files
on this case the two did not get along very well during this interrogation Richard claimed
that it was self-defense which he took to court to explain to jury insisting that his
roommate attempted to attack him with a roofing hammer he got a hold of it and struck Fratric
(40:32):
eight times in the head and after deliberating for only three hours the jury found Richard
not guilty how the fuck do you not find someone guilty you just whack someone in the head eight
times you then place a plastic bag over their head how is that not murder how is that self-defense
stab delayed like how many years ago yeah yeah he went yeah you're kidding you're kidding
(40:57):
me so after being acquitted in 1973 Richard had moved to New York where he practiced and
studied at Pace University's School of Nursing which quick side note I actually was supposed
to go to Pace University we see where that happened so I stayed here in Michigan shout
out Pace University a pace how's it going I have some friends there too well anyways
(41:21):
he graduated in 1978 and hired and was soon hired after into the Mount Sinai Medical Center
to work in the pediatric ward this led up to I said that right oh my god this led up to
2001 when the police finally got a lead on Richard who they learned have been a pretty
(41:45):
appalling person to say the least now we're back at May 28th 2001 so please want it Richard
to willingly come to the station they went to his shop at Mount Sinai where they tell
him hey we think you're a victim of credit card fraud will you agree to come with us
and come to the station to answer some questions and Richard just says yeah sure so stupid stupid
(42:15):
so as Richard gets to the interrogation room detectives just come right and say it sorry
dude but we're not here for some credit card scheme we've been investigating this murder
case and you're a prime suspect not a direct coat but that's a good part of what they
said at first Richard plate Koi acting like you didn't really know what they were talking
(42:38):
about then he admitted that he recognized the last known victim Michael Sakura but he quickly
realized that the police had already known and linked him to these murders so he just
came right out and said nothing more actually he just left it at that so he requested that
he just get an attorney until investigators could construct a solid case against him they
(43:04):
held this asshole bail bond at one million dollars so he wasn't going anywhere and and
during the search of Richard's home in Jersey investigators just started to find more and
more evidence to find Richard guilty of the murders and they would use this in court period
(43:28):
October 26 2005 was when his trial finally began during jury selection Richard was offered
a plea deal this plea deal said if he pleaded guilty to manslaughter he'd only receive
two thirty two year sentences with the possibility of parole after 15 years I said only that's
(43:50):
a self-life sentence on top of this deal he was also though offered another plea deal
that basically just said if he pleaded guilty to the third degree murder of the investment
baker that I had mentioned Peter Anderson he will only receive 10 to 20 years in prison
so you're telling so just to simplify this he's given these plea deals they simplified
(44:19):
it down to 10 to 20 years in prison for the murders of dozen or not even a dozen but who
knows how many people and they're just gonna be like yeah you can take it you can leave
it yeah yeah but fortunately Rogers decided to decline the deal so yeah I know right no
(44:40):
asshole deserves to be walking around freely like that now during trial several witnesses
testified against Richard some of these being some witnesses that discovered the slider remains
the fingerprint comparison analyst and the investigators themselves when searching through
Richard's home their investigators had told the jury that they reported finding a medication
(45:04):
often used as a date rape drug called for said highlighted passages in a book mentioning
decapitation and dismemberment a New Jersey roadmap marked exactly where the bodies have
been placed boiling hot see polaroids of shirtless men with stab wounds drawn on them oh my god
(45:33):
oh oh oh and you know what you know what else what carpet fryers found consistent to the
ones found on Thomas McCauley's body it's almost it's almost like he did it like oh
my god so they actually found him one more thing that they also found the plastic bags
the same plastic bags that were made by the same plastic bags or that bodies are found
(45:58):
in so there's that too one leak later in November 2005 after three hours and 45 minutes
of deliberating the jury found Richard Rogers guilty on all charges Richard was sentenced
to two consecutive life sentences for unfortunately only two of the murders the murders that he
(46:23):
was tried for were 44 year old Anthony Moreiro I think I said that right and 57 year old
Thomas McCauley so that is pretty much the end of that story yeah wow yeah that that's
a whole lot of bullshit yeah I just thought that was a crazy case and I kind of hope I
(46:50):
kind of tied the two cases in kind of okay all around I just think it's just so crazy
that um two serial killers back to back like decade to decade or era to era could just
uh uh in the same place uh but I hope that you guys found that story interesting I hope
(47:14):
that um I don't even know what to say next after that how do you even come back for that
that's a lot as always our hearts go out to the families of those victims and that's just
terrible about the ones that didn't even get identified yeah yeah that is and it's like
it's like Paul is unfortunately not alive anymore so we will never know that's not unfortunate
(47:40):
well it's unfortunate is sake that like fortunate that we won't be able to know fortunate that
he's not alive because oh we don't yeah we don't we don't care about him but we do care
about the fact that he took to his grave yeah what he did with these people and we don't
even know who they are yeah that that really is unfortunate part with the um which are
(48:01):
the side of things uh like uh it's just crazy to me but um he is still alive to this day
he is uh held in prison for the rest of his life but he is alive so if you like to send
him a box of shit you can do that go for it say it's from us it's fine well with that
(48:24):
um I think we can wrap up this episode for us uh stick with us till next week we have
a fun episode coming up for you guys can't wait for it cute spooky episode yay great
way to wrap up our season and um I think I think that's all I don't really have anything
to wrap up with us other than follow us yeah you know where to find us you know where to
(48:48):
find us WTLGO podcast basically everywhere um and then you can also send us an email
if you like to that is WTLGO inquiries so everything else is WTLGO podcast then you
have our email and yeah that's about it make sure to follow us make sure to uh send us
(49:12):
love and anyway you know how to and with that we will see you next when the lights goes
up take it easy everyone bye you need the sound of like the clicking of a light bulb
click oh I should throw it in when you pull the lamp like a lamp shade down yeah shade
but the pull like that's got the chain oh I'm chained up we'll see you when the lights
(49:37):
goes up bye
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