4.4 | Keep Your Babies Close: The True Story of JonBenét Ramsey - When Walls Can Talk: The Podcast | Where Paranormal Mysteries and Dark History Collide

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This episode contains graphic and extreme violence
and sexual assault done to achild and may be extremely
distressing to some listeners.
Listener discretion is stronglyadvised.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
It's a frigid December morning in Boulder,
colorado.
The world outside is veiled ina shroud of white, the remnants
of a Christmas snowfall.
The sun, a distant, pale orb,struggles to pierce the grey
skies.
It's light, barely touching theRamsay's Tudor-style home

(01:03):
nestled in a quiet neighborhood.
Inside, the house is silent,saved for the muffled sound of
footsteps on plush carpet.
It's the day after Christmas.
A home that should be echoingwith the laughter of a
six-year-old and the warmth offamily gatherings now holds a
different story.

(01:24):
In the dim light of dawn, afigure descends the staircase,
footsteps hesitant.
The air is thick, with anunspoken dread, a prelude to a
discovery that will shatter thestillness of this winter morning
.
As the figure reaches thebottom of the staircase,
something catches the eye Threepieces of paper lying in wait.

(01:47):
It's a ransom note, wordsscrawled in haste, a message
that chills the bone, andupstairs a bedroom lies empty.
This is where our story begins,at the precipice of an unsolved
mystery that has haunted us fordecades the story of John Benet

(02:08):
Ramsay, a beauty queen whoselife was snatched away, leaving
behind a trail of questions, afamily torn apart and a nation
grappling with theincomprehensible.
And in this silence, a thoughtlingers, persistent and probing.
If these walls could talk.
This age-old adage, the veryinspiration for our show,

(02:33):
resonates with a haunting truthin the Ramsay home, for within
these walls lies the silentwitness to a tale that has
captivated and confounded us foryears.
Imagine if these walls couldspeak.
What secrets would they unveil.
Would they echo the laughter ofa child now forever silent?

(02:53):
They whisper the truths hiddenbeneath layers of paint and time
, for within their embrace theyhold the final moments of a
young life, the franticheartbeats of a family torn
asunder and the shadowy presenceof an unknown entity whose
actions set this tragic story inmotion.

(03:14):
And yet, as we stand here atthe threshold of the known and
the unknown, we are reminded ofthe profound frustration.
The walls remain silentguardians of the truth, leaving
us with only echoes and theories, some grounded in reality,
others spiraling into the realmof the absurd.

(03:34):
This is why we delve into thisstory.
Unsolved mysteries like JohnBenet's linger in the air like
restless ghosts, haunting uswith their unanswered questions,
their unresolved endings.
They compel us to look closer,to listen harder, to seek the
truth in the silence.

(03:56):
In this episode, as we navigatethe labyrinth of this enduring
mystery, we do so with the hopethat by giving voice to these
silent echoes, by peeringthrough the veil of the unseen,
we might come a step closer tounderstanding, to finding peace
in the unknown.
For it is in the pursuit ofthese elusive truths that we

(04:19):
find the very essence of ourquest, the very soul of when
walls can talk.
Throughout the ages, man hasrepeated the same earnest,

(04:45):
saying more of a question,really, or perhaps even a plea
if these walls could talk.
But what if they do, and alwayshave?
Perhaps their stories, memoriesand messages are all around us.
If only we would take themoment to listen.
On this podcast, wereinvestigate legends and tales

(05:07):
of the past and allow the echoesof their lessons to live on
once again, informing us,educating us and sharing new and
unique insight into the innerworkings of the paranormal and
spiritual world.
Will you dare to listen?
This is when Walls Can Talk thepodcast.

(05:55):
In 1990, in a bustling Atlantahospital, a baby girl was born
John Benet Ramsey.
Her name, a unique blend of herfather's first and middle names
, hinted at a life intertwinedwith her parents' aspirations.
The family moved to Boulder,colorado, when she was just nine

(06:17):
months old, to expand herfather's software company.
Now Boulder was a haven foryoung families at the time, a
place where dreams seemed justwithin reach.
And for the Ramses, thosedreams were tinged with beauty
and ambition, with a second home, boat and private plane.
John Benet was brought up in asignificantly glamorous life,

(06:40):
but tragedy was forever stalkingthem like a hungry wolf.
By 1994, john's eldest daughter, beth, had been killed in a car
crash.
John Benet's mother, patsy, wasa former Miss West Virginia from
1977,.
Noisy and extroverted Patsy'sworld was one where appearance

(07:00):
mattered, where poise and beautyheld extreme value, and Patsy,
having battled ovarian cancer,seemed to pour her energy into
her daughter's life with anintensity that only someone who
has faced mortality can.
You have to wonder.
Was it just about creatingmemories, or was it something
more?
Did she see in John Benet achance to relive her own pageant

(07:24):
days, or maybe to achievesomething she hadn't?
In nearly everyone's livesthere are threads of regret,
moments that, in hindsight, seemladen with foreboding.
John and Patsy Ramsey spoke ofmistakes they made during their
time there.
It's a vague and hauntingadmission.
What exactly did they mean, andhow does this tie into the

(07:48):
narrative of John Benet's lifeand the tragedy that befell her?
One such instance takes us backto a time before the headlines,
before the sorrow.
John Benet was just three and ahalf when the family attended a
reunion for the Miss WestVirginia pageantry system.
Patsy, a former Miss WestVirginia herself, brought her

(08:09):
family into a world she knewwell.
It was there that John Benet,wide-eyed and captivated, first
glimpsed the sparkle and lure ofpageants.
Imagine young John Benet,barely more than a toddler,
enchanted by the glitz andglamour surrounding her.
She begged to be a part of thisdazzling world.

(08:31):
It's easy to picture, isn't it?
A little girl drawn to thebright lights, the beautiful
dresses, the attention.
But looking back, john andPatsy might have seen this as a
pivotal moment, the start of ajourney that would place John
Benet in the public eye, adecision they perhaps came to
question in later years.

(08:51):
This moment of innocence, of achild's desire to emulate the
beauty and grace she saw, takeson a different shade when viewed
through the lens of what was tocome.
It's these decisions, seeminglyinconsequential at the time,
that John and Patsy laterreflected on with a sense of
remorse.

(09:11):
What did they see in hindsight?
Was it the exposure, theattention that they regretted?
Or was it something deeper, asense of a path that, once taken
, led them to places they neverintended to go.
By six years old, john Benet wasa pageant regular, her smile

(09:33):
lighting up stages, her presencelarger than life.
Yet those who knew herdescribed her as a tomboy,
someone who could switch fromsequins and tiaras to jeans and
sneakers.
It's this duality about herthat really fascinates me the
public persona and the privatechild.
The world saw her dancingacross stages in makeup and

(09:56):
curls, but who was she really?
Away from the glitter andlights?
Just days before the tragedythat would engulf her family and

(10:18):
capture the attention of thenation, john Benet Ramsey gave
her final public performance OnDecember 22, 1996, at a local
mall in the Denver area.
John Benet was seen singing atthe Southwest Plaza Mall in
Littleton Colorado, performingrockin' around the Christmas
tree.
This haunting last video ofJohn Benet showcases her beaming

(10:42):
with the joy of performance,stark contrast to the events
that would soon follow.
This moment, captured in timeshows John Benet as the child
she was immersed in theinnocence of a Christmas
celebration, unaware of thedarkness that lay just ahead.
Then there's the Ramsey familydynamics.

(11:02):
John Benet's father, john, asuccessful businessman, seems
almost like a backgroundcharacter in the pageant
narrative.
He later expressed regret overtheir involvement in pageants,
saying he wished they never putJohn Benet on display.
It makes you pause and think.
What did he see that worriedhim?

(11:24):
Was it the unnaturalness of itall or the unwanted attention it
brought?
And Burke John Benet's brother.
It's a powerful reminder of thebond they must have had and of
the innocence lost, not justJohn Benet's but his too.
He's a figure who's beenscrutinized, pitied and

(11:44):
speculated about, but in the endhe's just a brother who lost
his sister in the most tragic ofways.
What strikes me about this storyis not just the tragedy of John
Benet's death, but the life shelived.
It's a life filled withcontrasts the public and the
private, the joyous and thesorrowful.

(12:06):
As we delve deeper into thiscase, we do so trying to
understand not just the how andthe why of her death, but the
who of her life.
Who was John Benet Ramsay,beyond the pageant stages and
the headlines?
What can her life tell us abouther untimely death?

(12:26):
And maybe, just maybe, byunderstanding John Benet, the
girl, we can come closer tounderstanding the mystery that
ended her life.
Imagine a picturesque community,the kind where neighbors greet
each other, where kids playfreely along tree-lined streets.
This was the vision the Ramseshad in mind when they moved to

(12:49):
their home on 15th Street inBoulder, colorado.
It's the kind of place wherethe word safety isn't just
expected, it's a given.
But, as we've come to learn inthis case, appearances can be
deceiving and a sense of safetycan sometimes lead to unexpected
vulnerabilities.
John and Patsy Ramsey believedthey had found a haven for their

(13:12):
family.
Boulder, with its serenelandscapes and friendly faces,
seemed like a world, away fromthe chaos and dangers of bigger
cities.
Their home, a sprawling7,000-square-foot tutor, became
a hub of activity, a place wheredoors were often found unlocked
, a testament to the trust theyplaced in their community.

(13:33):
It wasn't unusual for the manydoors of their house to be left
open, a sign of theiropen-hearted and trusting nature
.
And then there were the kids,john Benet and Burke, whose
laughter filled the halls ofthis large house Friends coming
and going, a constant parade ofyouthful energy and joy.
It was a home where childrenfelt free to be children, a

(13:57):
place of comfort and security.
But this idyllic scene harborsa haunting question Did this
very openness, this trust in thesafety of their community, play
a role in the tragedy thatbefell the Ramses?
It's a jarring thought, theidea that the comfort of your
own home, a place where you feelmost secure, could be the very

(14:20):
thing that leaves you vulnerable.
In the days leading up to thetragic murder of John Benet
Ramsey, her father, john Ramsey,had reasons to regret certain
decisions that in retrospect mayhave contributed to making his
family a target.
One such decision waspublicizing the success of his

(14:40):
company Access Graphics.
A newspaper article titledAccess Celebrates One Billion
Dollar Mark was published onDecember 21st 1996, highlighting
the company's achievement ofexceeding one billion dollars in
sales.
You can imagine it, can't you?
A moment of triumph, a reasonfor pride for sure.

(15:02):
But John Ramsey, years later,would reflect on this with a
tinge of regret.
He told reporters that thatarticle was a huge mistake.
His gut had told him it wasn'ta good idea to publicize his
success.
But he overrode that instinct.
Why?
For pride, for his employeesand maybe a little bit for the

(15:23):
neighbors All innocent, if youask me.
But in doing so he laterwondered did he inadvertently
put a spotlight on his family?
And then there's Patsy, johnBenet's mother.
In the days leading up toChristmas, their home was abuzz
with activity, beautifullydecorated for the season, they

(15:44):
opened their doors to anestimated 1500 to 2000 guests.
Think about that number for amoment.
It's a staggering amount ofpeople moving in and out of
their home, each a potentialobserver, each a potential
threat in disguise.
Patsy, too, later expressedregret about this the
vulnerability they didn't seebehind the veil of holiday cheer

(16:06):
.
Did this open invitationinadvertently provide the
perfect opportunity for someonewith ill intent to take a closer
look, to plan somethingunimaginable?
These are the details thatlinger in the mind, the what ifs
that haunt Could the verythings the Ramses celebrated

(16:27):
their success, their openness,their hospitality have been the
factors that led to tragedy.
It's a chilling thought thepride of a business milestone,
the joy of sharing their festivehome, turned into potential
vulnerabilities.
In this story, every detail,every decision takes on a weight

(16:50):
it was never meant to carry,and as we sift through these
decisions, we can't help butwonder what role, if any, did
they play in the events that ledto one of the most infamous
murders in American history?
Let's rewind to the Ramseyfamily's final Christmas,

(17:11):
specifically starting onDecember 23rd.
Just three days before thetragedy, they hosted a
children's party at their home,a scene that now feels like
something from a different world.
Imagine it the house is alivewith the sound of children's
laughter, the air filled withthe scent of gingerbread.
John Benet, along with a friend, had a special job at this

(17:34):
party.
They were in charge of hangingup the coats of arriving guests.
It's a small detail, but itpaints a picture of her as an
active, involved child, integralto the fabric of the family's
social life.
Patsy Ramsey had organizedgingerbread houses for the kids
and by all accounts they werehaving a ball.

(17:55):
But it's John Ramsey'sdescription of John Benet that
sticks with me.
He called her the spark plug ofthe family.
It suggests energy, life, thething that makes everything else
work.
And that was John Benet, alittle girl whose presence lit
up the room.
There's this one anecdote thatJohn recalled about John Benet.

Speaker 5 (18:19):
The thing that I remember about her was that if I
would frown, she would look atme and say Dad, I don't like
that face.
And I'd smile and she'd sayDad's better, it's just the way
she was.
She loved her daddy.
She loved her daddy.
She was daddy's girl.

Speaker 2 (18:41):
It's a poignant image , isn't it?
In those words we see not justa six-year-old child, but a
vibrant personality, someone whohad an impact on those around
her, someone who could changethe mood of a room with a simple
phrase.
This last Christmas event, withits joy and normalcy, stands in

(19:02):
stark contrast to what was tocome.
It was a moment in time, one ofthe last, where the Ramsey
family could be just that afamily, without the shadow of
tragedy hanging over them.
When we think of John Benet,it's often as a victim, but in
this scene we see her as she wasA lively, loving child, the

(19:26):
heartbeat of her family, andit's this image of her the spark
plug that makes what happenednext all the more
heart-wrenching.
Christmas Day 1996.
It's a scene right out of aholiday card the Ramsey family

(19:46):
home, alive with the excitementthat only Christmas can bring to
a child.
John Ramsey remembers thismorning vividly.
The kids, john Benet and Burke,woke up early, their eyes
bright with anticipation.
This was the kind of morningwhere family memories are made,
the kind of morning you lookback on with warmth and fondness

(20:06):
.
Among the gifts there was onethat stood out for John Benet a
new bicycle.
Imagine her delight, her eyeslighting up at the sight of it.
And in the midst of thisidyllic family scene, the final
two photographs of John Benetalive were taken.
She's there under the Christmastree radiant.

(20:29):
The word that comes to mindwhen you see these photos is
angelic.
She's full of life, her wholefuture ahead of her.
And yet there's a bittersweettinge to these images now, a
haunting reminder of what wasabout to be lost.
But it's a particular memoryfrom that morning that John

(20:50):
Ramsey reflects on with deepregret.
John Benet, thrilled with hernew bike, begged her father to
take her for a ride around theblock.
He remembers telling her no, no, we don't have time.
They were preparing to go to afriend's Christmas party and
there just wasn't a moment tospare.
She pleaded, but he held firm.

(21:11):
Now, looking back, john talksabout how this decision haunts
him.
It was another moment of what,if a seemingly small choice that
, in hindsight, carries anunimaginable weight For John.
It's not just the loss of hisdaughter that he mourns, but
also the loss of what could havebeen.

(21:32):
The moments not taken.
The moments we think areinsignificant can become the
ones we long for the most.
And in this story of loss, therefusal of a simple bike ride
takes on profound significance Afather's wish to turn back the
clock for just one more momentof joy, one more chance to say

(21:54):
yes.
The evening of December 25th1996, the Ramseys returned from
a Christmas party at a friend'shouse.
It's around 9pm.
They're in a bit of a hurry.
There's a trip planned toMichigan the next day to visit
John Ramsey's older children.
The sense of urgency, theroutine of getting the kids to

(22:17):
bed.
It's also ordinary, yetunderpinned by attention.
They couldn't have anticipated.
John Bene is already asleep inthe car when they arrive home.
It's a familiar scene for anyparent the gentle, careful
process of moving a sleepingchild.
John helps her out of her shoes, patsy tucks her into bed and

(22:38):
then Patsy prays over John Bene,a nightly ritual for her,
reciting a familiar prayer.
Now I lay me down to sleep, Ipray the Lord my soul to keep,
and if I die before I wake, Ipray the Lord my soul to take.
It's a prayer that, inretrospect, sends a chill down

(23:00):
your spine, the innocence andthe unknowable future wrapped in
those words that haunts thisnight.
According to Burke, ramsey isalso the last time he sees his
sister alive.
He's too excited to sleep,caught up in the thrill of a new
model he'd received forChristmas.

(23:21):
So there's John sitting withhis son in the living room
helping him assemble it.
It's a simple moment offather-son bonding, yet overlaid
with a sense of foreboding forwhat we, as the audience, know
is about to happen.
Finally, the house quiets down.
John and Patsy, likelyexhausted from the day's

(23:43):
festivities, settle in for thenight.
They have no idea that theseare the last few hours of
normalcy they will everexperience as a family.
As I sift through these details,the questions multiply.
How did this evening ofcelebration turn into a

(24:04):
nightmare, and why, among thetwinkling lights and festive
decor, did a shadow fall soheavily on this family's world?
December 26, 1996, it's the dayafter Christmas, a day that was

(24:25):
supposed to be just anotherstep in the Ramsay family's
holiday plans.
They were scheduled for anearly morning flight at 7am,
heading to their second home inMichigan, patsy Ramsay, likely
moving through the routine ofthe morning with the efficiency
of a practiced parent, comes tofetch some laundry from a
cupboard near John Bene'sbedroom.

(24:46):
Patsy glances at John Bene'sdoor, noticing it closed.
At approximately 5.30am, patsyRamsay descended the spiral
staircase of their bolder home.
It was then she found somethingthat would turn their world
upside down A ransom note lyingon the staircase.

Speaker 1 (25:09):
Mr Ramsay, listen carefully.
We are a group of individualsthat represent a small foreign
faction.
We do respect your business,but not the country that it
serves.
At this time we have yourdaughter in our possession.
She is safe and unharmed and ifyou want her to see 1997, you
must follow our instructions tothe letter.
You will withdraw $118,000 fromyour account.

(25:34):
$100,000 will be in $100 billsand the remaining $18,000 in $20
bills.
I will call you between 8 and10am tomorrow to instruct you on
delivery.
Any deviation of my instructionswill result in the immediate
execution of your daughter.
Speaking to anyone about yoursituation, such as the police,

(25:55):
fbi etc.
Will result in your daughterbeing beheaded.
If we catch you talking to astray dog, she dies.
If you alert bank authorities,she dies.
If the money is in any waymarked or tampered with, she
dies.
You stand a 99% chance ofkilling your daughter if you try
to outsmart us.
Don't try to grow a brain, John.

(26:17):
You are not the only fat cataround, so don't think that
killing will be difficult.
Don't underestimate us, john.
Use that good Southern commonsense of yours.
It is up to you now, johnVictory.

Speaker 2 (26:29):
Now let's talk about this note.
It's not just a brief, ominousmessage.
It's a two-and-a-half pageletter, verbose and specific,
written on one of the Ramsayfamily's own note pads.
The note demanded $118,000 forJohn Bene's safe return, an
amount eerily similar to JohnRamsay's recent Christmas bonus.

(26:53):
It's a detail that, to me andto many online sleuths, suggests
the writer knew the Ramsesquite well.
Or was it intentionallyincluded to throw off
investigators?
The language of the note ispeculiar.
It starts with Mr Ramsay listencarefully.

(27:13):
And then goes on to describe asmall foreign faction having
John Bene.
The tone is dramatic, almosttheatrical, filled with
movie-like phrases and an oddmix of politeness and threats.
This lengthy note, written witha pen and pad from the Ramsay's
own home, raised many questions.

(27:34):
Why would a kidnapper take thetime to write such an extensive
note at the crime scene, and whyuse materials from the house?
In the moment, patsy's eyescatch the words we have your
daughter.
It's a line that no parent everexpects to read, a sentence

(27:55):
that, in a split second,transforms everything from
normalcy to sheer terror.
In a state of panic, Patsydoesn't even read further.
She's a mother, her instinctskicking in, she bounds back
upstairs, throws open JohnBene's door, only to find her
worst fears realized John Beneis nowhere to be seen.

(28:20):
Patsy is frantic.
Her screams piercing the earlymorning silence, calling for
John who is still upstairs.
John, upon hearing the tear inPatsy's voice, rushes down.
He quickly reads through theransom note, absorbing the
horrifying reality that theirdaughter has been kidnapped.

(28:41):
This moment, the discovery ofthe note, the realization of
John Bene's disappearance, isthe point of no return.
The Ramsey family's life asthey knew it was irrevocably
altered.
In those harrowing minutes ForJohn and Patsy, their home, once

(29:02):
a haven of safety and joy,becomes the epicenter of an
unimaginable nightmare.

Speaker 6 (29:14):
The Ramsey family's life, as they knew it, was
irrevocably altered in thoseharrowing minutes.
The Ramsey family's life, asthey knew it, was irrevocably

(29:38):
altered in those harrowingminutes.

Speaker 2 (30:20):
Within seven minutes, which in situations like this
must have felt like an eternity,a patrol car arrives at the
scene.
The response is quick, but whatunfolds next only adds to the
confusion and mystery.
One patrol officer searches thehouse, including the basement.
Another combs the area outside,noting something peculiar no

(30:46):
signs of forced entry, nofootprints in the fresh snow.
These details, or the lackthereof, are puzzling.
It's as if the kidnappervanished into thin air.
Meanwhile, investigators aregrowing suspicious of the
parents.
They feel John and Patsy aren'tacting as expected.

(31:07):
How are parents supposed to actin such an unimaginable
situation?
It's a question that hauntsthis case.
But what strikes theinvestigators as particularly
odd is Patsy still in the sameclothes from the night before.
To them it's a red flag, adetail that doesn't fit the

(31:29):
narrative of a typicalkidnapping.
As if this wasn't enough,friends and neighbors begin
converging on the house.
The scene is chaotic, peopleeverywhere.
One even starts cleaning thekitchen.
This is not protocol.
This is not how a crime sceneshould be managed.
And then there's Burke, johnBene's brother.

(31:51):
He remains in his bedroom, afact that investigators find
unusual.
He later says he was scared asimple explanation.
But in the context of themorning's events.
Everything is under scrutiny.
With the kidnappers' supposedcall looming, they were to give
instructions on delivering theransom.

(32:12):
Somewhere between 8 and 11 am,the police tapped the family's
phone line.
John, thinking like abusinessman, calls his banker,
managing to catch him before heleaves for a holiday.
The ransom $118,000, isprepared by 7.30 am and Burke
he's sent to a friend's house,removed from the unfolding chaos

(32:36):
.
This part of the story is rifewith oddities and questions.
Did the lack of forced entryindicate an inside job?
Why was Patsy still in herclothes from the night before?
What about the lack offootprints outside and the
decision to clean the kitchen?
Was this an act of kindness orcontamination of evidence?

(33:01):
Suspicion was starting to seepinto the minds of the
investigators.
Patsy Ramsey, distraught andsobbing hysterically in the side
sunroom, seemed to be watchingevery move the investigators
made, peering through splayedfingers over her eyes.
It's a detail that struck theofficers as unusual.
Was this the behavior of agrief-stricken mother or

(33:24):
something else?
Then there was the interaction,or lack thereof, between John
and Patsy.
Observers noted that neithermade an apparent attempt to
console each other.
In such a harrowing situation,you might expect a certain level
of shared grief, a leaning oneach other for support.
But here there was a distance,a detachment that raised

(33:48):
eyebrows.
The first detective to arriveon the scene was Linda Arndt.
She was led into the house byJohn Ramsey and what she
observed left her deeplyunsettled.
John's behavior, his demeanor,it didn't seem to fit the
situation.
Was it shock, confusion orsomething more?

Speaker 1 (34:13):
Arndt, an experienced officer, couldn't shake the
feeling that something was off8.10 am Arndt arrived at the
Ramsey home and meets JohnRamsey for the first time.
How did he strike you?

Speaker 7 (34:26):
Cordial Cordial Mm-hmm.
Upset Cordial Distraught.

Speaker 8 (34:33):
Cordial.

Speaker 6 (34:43):
Did it strike you at all that that was behavior that
was unusual for?

Speaker 7 (34:49):
somebody whose child was just kidnapped.
It's been my experience thatpeople respond to trauma in
different ways, so if someonehas a response that is different
from mine, I don't put judgmentto it, I'll just note it.

Speaker 2 (35:03):
In situations like these, every action, every
reaction is scrutinized.
The behavior of grievingparents is often hard to predict
or understand, but in theRamsey case these behaviors
became focal points forsuspicion.
The lack of physical comfortbetween John and Patsy, patsy's

(35:24):
seemingly contradictory actionsof crying, yet observing, john's
unsettling behavior in the eyesof Detective Arndt all of these
elements combined to paint apicture of a family acting under
unusual and suspiciouscircumstances.
As the clock ticks towards 8 amon December 26, the house is

(35:45):
tense, the air thick withanticipation.
Everyone's focus is on thetelephone.
John Ramsey, script in handprovided by the investigators,
is waiting for the ransom callthat would instruct him on how
to deliver the $118,000.
The phone rings about half adozen times, but each time it's

(36:08):
someone else.
There's no word from thealleged kidnappers.

Speaker 7 (36:13):
10 am came and went with no contact 10 am, the
deadline imposed by the writerof the ransom note for a
telephone call 10 o'clock comesand goes and there's no
acknowledgement within the housefrom anyone that the deadline
imposed by the author of theransom note has come and gone

(36:34):
Nobody said it's 10 o'clock andthe kidnappers haven't called.

Speaker 8 (36:38):
Nobody said that 1 o'clock pm.

Speaker 2 (36:43):
Detective Linda Arndt , sensing John's escalating
anxiety, suggests a task tooccupy him.
She asks him to search the homeagain, this time more
thoroughly, searching foranything out of place.
John, accompanied by a familyfriend, starts the grim task of
going room by room, headingstraight to the basement.

(37:05):
He opens every door, checksevery corner until finally he
opens the door to a smallwindowless room, often referred
to as the wine cellar.
What he finds there is a scenethat no parent should ever have
to witness.
John Benet is lying on the coldfloor covered by a white

(37:38):
blanket.
The site is harrowing, thedetails stark and deeply
unsettling.
John Benet's arms are boundabove her head, her mouth
covered with duct tape.
It's a moment of pure horror, arealization of the worst fears

(38:04):
any parent can imagine.
John's reaction is instinctive,primal.
He screams, a desperate attemptto get the attention of
investigators upstairs.
In a state of shock, he scoopsup John Benet's lifeless body

(38:26):
and carries her upstairs to themain floor.
The grief, the desperation inthat moment, it's something that
words can hardly capture.
This discovery, this momentwhere hope turns to despair,

(38:55):
where a missing child casebecomes a murder investigation,
it's a pivotal point in thestory.
It's where the narrative shiftsdramatically, where the
questions and suspicions startto multiply.
In this moment, the Ramsayfamily's private tragedy becomes
a public enigma, a case thatwould capture the nation's

(39:18):
attention and spark debates andtheories for years to come.

Speaker 7 (39:22):
And I see John Ramsay carrying John Benet up the last
three steps from the basementand my mind exploded and
everything that I had noted thatmorning that stuck out

(39:44):
instantly made sense.
And John Benet was clearly deadand she's been dead for a while
.
I ordered him to put John Benetdown and knelt next to her and
I leaned down to her face andJohn leaned down opposite me and

(40:07):
his face was just inches frommine and we had a nonverbal
exchange that I will neverforget.
And he asked if she was deadand I said yes, she's dead, and

(40:29):
I told him to go back to theroom and to dial line 11.
And as we looked at each other,I remember an award shoulder
holster Putting my gun rightnext to me and consciously
counting I've got 18 bullets.
Why did you do that?

(40:50):
Because I didn't know if we'dall be alive when people showed
up.
I'd said that everything madesense in that instance and I
knew what happened.
Do you think your fear was wellfounded?
You bet I do.
There's no doubt in my mind.

Speaker 5 (41:13):
You're afraid because you thought the killer was
still in the house.

Speaker 7 (41:20):
I knew it.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (41:27):
In the aftermath of John Ramsey finding John Benet's
body, detective Linda Arnt madea decision, one that would
later become a point of intensescrutiny and criticism.
She decided to move John Benet'sbody from the hallway where
John had placed it into theliving room.
This move, though perhaps madewith intentions of preserving

(41:48):
some semblance of dignity orprivacy, would later be
questioned for its impact on thecrime scene's integrity.
John Ramsey, following closely,is overtaken by a father's
instinct to protect his child's,even in death.
He takes a throw blanket fromthe couch covering John Benet's
body.
In his mind, perhaps it was afinal act of care, of shielding

(42:13):
her from the harsh reality oftheir situation, but this act of
covering her body would furthercomplicate the crime scene
investigation.
Detective Arnt's decisionsallowing John to search the
house, which led to thediscovery and movement of John
Benet's body, and then thesubsequent covering of the body,
were later met with harshcriticism.

(42:35):
In the world of law enforcement, where preserving the integrity
of a crime scene is paramount,these actions were seen as
critical missteps.
They potentially contaminatedcrucial evidence, altered the
scene and made the alreadydaunting task of solving this
case even more challenging.

(43:34):
You did confusion.

(44:18):
An aunt in the midst of thiswas tasked with managing the
scene, a responsibility that wasboth critical and overwhelming.
Repeatedly, aunt called forbackup, reaching out for
additional support in managingthe situation, but her calls
were met with an astonishingresponse Everyone was in a

(44:40):
meeting.
This left her to navigate thecomplexities of the scene
largely on her own, a scenariothat any law enforcement officer
would find daunting.
The criticism that aunt laterfaced was in many ways a
reflection of the impossiblecircumstances she found herself
in.
Critics questioned herdecisions, her management of the

(45:02):
scene, but it's important toconsider the context.
She was alone, managing a housefilled with distraught
individuals, while also tryingto preserve what was left of the
crime scene.
It was a balancing act ofimmense proportions, one that
few could have managedflawlessly.
It wasn't until 1.20pm, afterthree hours managing the scene

(45:26):
of the kidnapping that hadquickly become a homicide, and a
full twenty minutes after JohnBene's body was discovered, that
backup finally arrived.
The evening of December 26th,john Bene Ramsey's body was
finally removed from the familyhome, marking the end of an
unimaginably tragic day for theRamseys.

(45:46):
The family, in their state ofshock and grief, was taken to
stay with friends, away from thehome that had turned into a
crime scene.
By the next morning, the casehad already begun to leak into
the public sphere.
The Colorado Rocky MountainNews reported the murder in the
morning newspaper with a tone ofskepticism, already hinting

(46:09):
that the case didn't add up.
But it was the findings duringthe autopsy that morning that
escalated suspicions further.
The pathologist discovered thatJohn Bene had been sexually
assaulted, garaded and beaten atthe time of her murder.

(46:32):
Adding to the horror, theautopsy revealed signs of
previous vaginal inflammation,leading investigators to the
disturbing conclusion that shehad been a victim of sexual
abuse even before her tragicdeath.
Perhaps the most chillingdiscovery was the extent of the
physical trauma she had suffered.

(46:53):
As her scalp was peeled back.
The pathologist found aneight-inch-long fracture
spanning the entire length ofher head.
This grim detail painted apicture of the brutality of the
attack, a piece of evidence thatwas as heart-wrenching as it

(47:14):
was critical to understandingwhat had happened to her.
In the days following thediscovery of John Bene's body,
the Boulder Police Department'sfocus began to narrow sharply.
It became clear that theirprimary suspects in this heinous
crime were none other than JohnBene's own parents, john and

(47:36):
Patsy Ramsey.
This direction in theinvestigation stemmed from a
growing belief among the policethat the crime scene had been
staged.
The prevailing theory amonginvestigators was that John Bene
had been hit over the head,resulting in the eight-inch
skull fracture revealed duringthe autopsy.
The police hypothesized thatthe rest of the crime scene,

(48:01):
including the grot and theransom note, was part of an
elaborate cover-up orchestratedby the parents.
The ransom note in particulardrew significant attention.

(48:22):
The police began to suspectthat it was written by Patsy
Ramsey herself using a pad andpen found in the family home.
As these suspicions solidified,they quickly leaked to the
press.
The media coverage began topaint a picture of the Ramseys
as prime suspects.

(48:42):
One detail that wasparticularly seized upon was the
fact that both John and Patsyhad hired separate lawyers.
To the public, fed by mediaspeculation, this move was seen
as an indication of guilt, asign that they had something to
hide.
This period marked a crucialjuncture in the case.

(49:03):
The transition from a broadinvestigation to a focused
scrutiny of the parents camewith its own set of
controversies and complications.
The decision to hire lawyers, acommon practice in legal
matters of this magnitude, wasinterpreted through the lens of
suspicion.
In this unfolding narrative,the Ramseys found themselves not

(49:23):
only grieving the loss of theirdaughter but also fighting
against a growing publicperception of guilt.
As the year 1996 drew to a close, the Ramsey family found
themselves in the midst of asomber journey back to their
roots in Atlanta.
New Year's Eve, a timetypically marked by celebration

(49:43):
and hope, was for the Ramseys aday of profound sorrow.
They were there to lay theirdaughter, john Benet, to rest.
The funeral was a poignantmoment, marked not just by the
grief of a family but also theglaring spotlight of an
increasingly hostile media andpublic.

(50:04):
Caught up in the frenzy of thecase, family and friends found
themselves in the unexpectedrole of protectors, shielding
John Patsy and Burke from theintrusive eyes and lenses of the
press.
But the media storm surroundingthe Ramseys was intensifying
with each passing day.
By January 1, 1997, thepressure had reached a tipping

(50:28):
point.
The family, likely advised bytheir legal team and feeling the
weight of public suspicion,made the decision to speak to
the news.
This wasn't just a familygrieving anymore.
They were now in the throes ofa public relations battle
attempting to quell the stormthat was gathering momentum
against them.

Speaker 5 (50:52):
There is a killer on the loose.
I don't know who it is, I don'tknow if it's a he or a she, but
if I were a resident of BoulderI will tell my friends to keep

(51:16):
your baby's close.
There's someone out there.

Speaker 2 (51:22):
This public statement was a critical moment in the
narrative of the case.
It was an attempt by theRamseys to reclaim their story,
to present their side amidst thegrowing clamour of suspicion
and accusation.
But in a situation as chargedand complex as this, every word,
even every expression, would beanalyzed and interpreted, often

(51:43):
through the lens of skepticism.
In a CNN interview, PatsyRamsey, through tears, urged the
people of Boulder to becautious, asserting that there
was a killer on the loose.
Her plea to keep your babiesclose to you was a mother's cry
for vigilance.
But this broadcast only servedto bolster theories that the

(52:05):
Ramseys were more interested ina public performance than
cooperating with the police.
The following day, BoulderMayor Leslie Durgan publicly
countered Patsy's claim in apress conference, stating that
Boulder was safe and there wasno need to fear a killer
wandering the streets lookingfor children.

Speaker 8 (52:24):
I have been asked frequently is there widespread
fear in Boulder?
And the answer is no, and thereis certainly no cause for that
widespread fear.
I want to assure the citizensof Boulder of two things.
One of them is that I havecomplete confidence in the
Boulder Police Department, and,as we have said before and I
will say again, what we want outof this is not only to

(52:47):
determine who the murderer was,but to get a conviction, and
that will be the ultimateconclusion successful conclusion
of this case, and so I fullysupport the police department in
doing whatever they need to topreserve the integrity of this
case so that we can achieve asuccessful conclusion.

(53:08):
The second question that I havebeen asked frequently by the
media and, frankly, only once bya citizen, is whether there is
a killer on the loose and do weneed to take special precautions
in the city.
Certainly, as parents and I amone we make sure that our
children are safe, and we dothat all the time, and I would
expect parents to continue to dothat.

(53:29):
But I think that people inBoulder have no need to fear
that there is someone wanderingthe streets of Boulder has been
portrayed by some people,particularly in talk radio,
looking for young children toattack.
Boulder is safe.
It's always been a safecommunity.
It continues to be a safecommunity.

Speaker 2 (53:53):
This statement, based on information from the police
chief, was intended to allaycommunity fears, but only
deepened the Ramses' dismay.
They couldn't fathom why MayorDurgan would downplay the danger
went To them.
It was evident that John BenesKiller was still at large.
Meanwhile, the investigationwas focusing more tightly on the

(54:13):
Ramses Police.
Leaks to the media highlightedthe lack of footprints in the
snow, suggesting no intruder hadentered the house.
They were claims that Patsy wasonly pretending to cry and that
John had been absent from thehome for about 50 minutes
following the police's arrival,actions viewed with suspicion.
Additionally, john's decisionto have his private plane flown

(54:39):
back to Atlanta following themurder was seen as peculiar,
though the reason behind itremains unclear.
As the Ramses returned toBoulder to assist with the
police investigation, stayingwith friends during this time,
they found themselvesincreasingly isolated, both from
their community and in thecourt of public opinion.
Each action they took, eachdecision they made, was

(55:03):
dissected under the unforgivingmicroscope of a case that had
captured national attention.
But the accusations had onlyjust begun.
Soon videos of John Benes'pageants were on every
television screen in America aspeople everywhere began to
whisper that John and Patsy hadsexualized their daughter and

(55:25):
abused her.
Newsweek and People magazineput her photos on the cover of
their magazines.
It was even on the cover of amagazine in London under the
title the Kitty Porn Killing.
In his diary, john wrote of theexcruciating experience.

Speaker 3 (55:43):
We keep our curtains closed and our doors and windows
are locked.
Going anywhere is a major,planned and organized operation.
We have people coming to thedoor claiming to have
information helpful to the case,but they're actually tabloid
reporters.
Life is difficult to go on with.
The burden is almost too heavy.

Speaker 2 (56:03):
In their eyes.
They had lost their daughterand that's all that mattered.
As the media frenzy around theJohn Benes case escalated, some
local reporters started to digbeneath the surface of the
sensational headlines and policeleaks.
What they found was a trail ofmisinformation leaks to local

(56:24):
newspapers that, upon closerexamination, didn't hold up.
This discovery raised a new setof questions.
Why were these false leadsbeing fed to the media?
What was the motive behinddisseminating information that
could be so easily discredited?
One of the key details that hadbeen reported widely was the

(56:45):
absence of footprints in thesnow around the Ramsey home,
suggesting there was no intruder.
However, it turned out therewas no snow on the pathways that
night.
This revelation significantlyaltered the narrative, opening
up the possibility that someonecould have indeed entered the
home without leaving footprints.
Then there was the matter ofthe ransom note.

(57:07):
Despite widespread speculationthat Patsy Ramsey had written it
, no handwriting expert has everdefinitively concluded that she
was the author.
This key piece of evidence,which had been used to cast
suspicion on the Ramses, wassuddenly not as incriminating as
it had seemed.
Furthermore, it was reportedthat John Ramsey had left the

(57:29):
house that morning and that hehad arranged for his family to
fly back to Atlanta immediatelyfollowing the murder.
Both of these claims wereproven false John had not left
the house that morning and thefamily did not immediately fly
back to Atlanta, as reported.
These discrepancies in thereporting and the investigation

(57:51):
suggest a possible strategy toapply pressure to the Ramses,
perhaps in the hope that theywould turn on each other.
The spreading of misinformation, whether intentional or not,
muddied the waters of an alreadycomplex investigation.
For the Ramses, theserevelations must have been a mix
of vindication and frustration.

(58:13):
Vindication in that some of themost damning claims against
them were proven false, andfrustration at the realization
that their portrayal in themedia was shaped by inaccuracies
and assumptions.
In Boulder, district, attorneyAlex Hunter was facing a
mounting crisis of confidence inthe police investigation.
Amidst the swirling theoriesand public speculation, hunter

(58:37):
took a step back, scrutinizingthe evidence, or more precisely
the lack thereof.
He compiled a secret document,a list of critical items and
evidence that the police hadfailed to explain, items that
could potentially reshape theentire narrative of the case.
First there was the duct tapeused to gag John Benet.

(59:00):
No matching tape was foundanywhere in the Ramsey home.
Then there was the nylon cordused to bind her.
Again, nothing in the housematched it.
And the paintbrush that wasused for the garot Used to pull
the noose tighter around herneck?
Well, part of it was missing,unaccounted for and, perhaps

(59:23):
most perplexing of all, therewas no sign of the murder weapon
that had caused thecatastrophic injury to John
Benet's head If the killer hadnever left the home, as the
police theory suggested.
Where were these items?
With these unanswered questionslooming, large, hunter realized
he needed fresh eyes on the case, someone outside of the Boulder

(59:46):
Police Department's echochamber.
He decided to bring in the besthomicide detective he could
find.
After examining 80 candidates,he selected Lou Smit, a
detective from Colorado Springswith a near mythical reputation.
Smit had investigated over 200cases and solved 90 of them, a

(01:00:08):
remarkable track record.
As Smit began to delve into thecase, the investigation, which
had been teetering on the edgeof becoming a cold case, was
injected with new life.
For the Boulder Police and DAHunter, lou Smit's involvement
was a chance to re-examine theevidence with a new lens, to

(01:00:29):
question assumptions and topotentially steer the
investigation in a new direction.
Lou Smit began his investigationby meticulously examining crime
scene photos.
It was a methodical process,one photo at a time, until one
image stopped him in his tracks.

(01:00:49):
This photo showed a basementwindow wide open, a seemingly
minor detail that had beenoverlooked, but to a detective
like Smit, it was a potentialbreakthrough.
Even more intriguing was thescuff mark on the wall beneath
the window, leading directly tothe floor below.

(01:01:10):
Smit's attention to detail ledhim outside, to the exterior
wall of the Ramsey House, wherehe discovered that the window
was easily accessible andprotected only by an unlocked
metal grate.
This discovery was compoundedby another curious observation
Foliage recently trapped beneaththe lip of the grate,

(01:01:33):
suggesting that the grate hadbeen recently moved and then
replaced, disturbing the plantsin the surrounding garden bed.
Further examination revealedthat the ground at the bottom of
the window well appeareddisturbed.
There were even marks along thewindow frame that could be
interpreted as fingerprintsInside the basement, a fresh

(01:01:54):
shoe print was visible on asuitcase sitting beneath the
window, and there was a shard ofglass that might have been
transferred from the bottom of ashoe.
These were details that couldnot be easily ignored, pointing
to the possibility of anintruder entering through this
window.
However, when this theory waspresented to the public,

(01:02:16):
skepticism was immediate.
Many scoffed at the idea,arguing that the window well,
was too small for anyone toaccess the property through it.
In response, lou Smit took anunconventional step.
He demonstrated for journalistson camera that even he could
access the building through thewindow with relative ease.

(01:02:37):
His demonstration was apowerful rebuttal to the
skeptics, reigniting theintruder theory with a newfound
figure.
Lou Smit, undeterred by theskepticism he faced from some
corners of the Boulder PoliceDepartment, continued to delve
deeper into the evidence.
His focus turned to a peculiarand unexplained aspect of the

(01:02:59):
case the strange marks found onJohn Bene's back and face during
her autopsy.
His marks, which were notpresent in the photographs taken
on Christmas morning, were acrucial piece of the puzzle the
round, side-by-side marks.
A theory began to form in hismind.
The distance between the markson both her back and face was

(01:03:23):
consistent, suggesting they weremade by a tool with two prongs.
The only explanation that madesense to Smit was a stun gun.
To test his theory, he comparedthe marks from a stun gun to
those found on John Bene andfound that they matched
precisely.
Feeling confident in hisfindings, smit presented his

(01:03:46):
theory to a medical examiner,who even went on the record
stating that he felt medicallycertain that the injuries were
caused by a stun gun.
This revelation, if true, hadsignificant implications for the
case.
It effectively ruled out theparents as suspects.
Why would they need a stun gun?

(01:04:07):
To take John Bene from her bedor to cover up an accidental
killing?
Despite Smit's confidence in hisfindings, the Boulder police
remained unconvinced.
They dismissed the idea of astun gun as preposterous and
continued to downplay the theoryof an intruder.
Their response only added tothe mounting concerns of Boulder

(01:04:29):
District Attorney Alex Hunter.
He worried about the fairnessof the investigation, the
seeming reluctance of the policeto consider any alternative
theories.
But there's yet another twistthat casts doubt on the Boulder
Police Department's focus solelyon the parents.
It revolves around a criticalpiece of evidence a spot of

(01:04:50):
blood found on John Bene'sunderwear.
When the Boulder police made aformal request for forensic
testing, they described the casein the filings as a family
killing, with John and PatsyRamsey listed as the only and
official suspects.
The characterization of thecase reflected a narrow focus on
the investigation, one thatseemed to preclude any other

(01:05:13):
possibilities.
However, the results of the DNAtests brought a startling
revelation Mixed with JohnBene's blood on the underwear
was the DNA of an unknown male,a profile that did not match
John Ramsey or any other familymember.
This discovery, made only daysafter the murder, was a game

(01:05:34):
changer.
It was conclusive evidence thatsomeone else, an intruder, had
been present in the house on thenight of the murder.
And here's where the storytakes yet another perplexing
turn.
Despite the significance ofthis finding, the Boulder Police
Department seemingly ignored it.
Even more troubling, theydidn't pass this critical

(01:05:56):
information on to the DistrictAttorney's office for seven
months.
This delay in sharing crucialevidence speaks volumes about
the direction and focus of theinvestigation.
For the District Attorney andinvestigators like Lou Smith,
who are open to the possibilityof an intruder, this overlooked
DNA evidence was both avindication of their approach

(01:06:18):
and a source of frustration.
It highlighted a stark dividebetween the police and those who
believed that the evidencepointed to someone outside the
family.
As the years passed, the JohnBene Ramsey case continued to be
mired in controversy andconflict.
The divide between the BoulderDistrict Attorney's office and

(01:06:39):
the Boulder Police Departmentonly deepened, each side holding
firmly to its own theories andconclusions, insisting that each
other was taking the case offcourse.
This prolonged battle over thedirection and focus of the
investigation eventually led tothe case being brought before a
grand jury.
The question at hand was apivotal one Could there be

(01:07:02):
enough evidence to indict Johnand Patsy Ramsey for the murder
of their daughter?
After a thorough review, thegrand jury and the District
Attorney's office reached adecision that would shape the
future of the case.
They concluded that theinvestigation as it stood did
not have sufficient evidence towarrant a murder accusation

(01:07:25):
against the Ramses.
This outcome was a significantmoment in the saga, one that
seemed to validate the concernsof those who believed in the
Ramses innocence.
In the aftermath of the grandjury's decisions, changes began
to sweep through theinvestigative teams.
One by one, the police officerswho had worked on the case were

(01:07:46):
reassigned to other projects,their roles in the Ramsey
investigation coming to an end.
The shifting of personnelsignaled a turning point in the
case, a recognition that theinitial approach had not yielded
the desired results.
However, for Detective LouSmith, the man who attirelessly

(01:08:06):
championed the intruder theoryand sought to broaden the scope
of the investigation, thepressure to conform to the
prevailing narrative against theRamses became overwhelming.
Faced with an investigationthat seemed increasingly
resistant to his findings andtheories, even he reached a
breaking point.
Ultimately, lou Smith made thedifficult decision to resign

(01:08:28):
from the case, a move that spokevolumes about the challenges
and frustrations he faced withinthe investigation.
But the turn of the millenniumbrought new developments in the
John Ramsey case.
In the year 2000, boulder saw achange in its district attorney
and with this change came arenewed interest in solving the

(01:08:50):
enduring mystery.
Lou Smith, the staunch advocateof the intruder theory, was
brought back on a part-timebasis.
Then, in 2002, a shockingsecret memorandum came to light.
This document listed suspectswho had not yet been cleared in
the John Benet Ramsey case.

(01:09:10):
It was a revelation thatsuggested the investigation was
far from over, that there werestill avenues and individuals
that needed to be explored.
Fast forward to 2008, the newBoulder DA, employing
groundbreaking DNA techniques,made a significant announcement

(01:09:32):
John and Patsy Ramsey wereofficially exonerated, declared
innocent of the crime that hadtaken their daughter's life.
The moment was a turning point,a public acknowledgement of
what some had believed all alongthat the Ramses were not
responsible for John Benet'sdeath.
But for Patsy Ramsey, thisexoneration came too late.

(01:09:56):
She had succumbed to ovariancancer two years prior, never
living to see her name cleared.
John Ramsey, however, receiveda letter from Mary Lacey, the
Boulder District Attorney, whoapologized for the ordeal the
family had endured.
Lacey's words quote no innocentperson should have to endure

(01:10:17):
such an extended trial in thecourt of public opinion.
Go to sentiment felt by manywho had followed the case.
This exoneration, though arelief to John Ramsey and a
vindication of sorts, wasbittersweet.
The years of suspicion, therelentless media scrutiny and
the personal toll it had takenon the family could not be

(01:10:40):
undone.
The John Benet Ramsey caseremains a stark reminder of the
complexities and challenges ofhigh-profile criminal
investigations, where thepursuit of justice is often
fraught with obstacles, bothlegal and emotional, and where
the truth can sometimes remainelusive, shrouded in the shadows

(01:11:01):
of unanswered questions and,perhaps, police department
reputation.
But we're completely forgettingsomeone else, someone who
investigators and thousands ofpeople online still to this day,
passionately believe could bebehind the attack John Benet's
nine-year-old brother, burke.

(01:11:22):
Weighing around 60 pounds atthe time, burke became a focal
point for a theory that someinvestigators and many online
theorists vehemently believed.
The theory posited that in amoment of rage or jealousy on
Christmas night, burke hadstruck his sister, leading to
the catastrophic head injury.

(01:11:43):
The rest of the crime scene,according to this theory, was
staged by John and Patsy Ramseyin a desperate attempt to
protect their son.
Police first interviewed Burkejust an hour after John Benet's
body was found, but before hehad been informed for death.
The release of the interviewtranscript years later revealed

(01:12:04):
that Burke was seemingly unawareof the tragedy that unfolded.
He appeared confused, innocentto the grim reality that his
sister was gone.
Two weeks after the murder,Burke underwent a more formal
interview with social services,which was also reviewed by a
child psychologist independently.
The scrutiny on Burke wasintense, the pressure immense.

(01:12:27):
Yet the conclusions drawn fromthese interviews and evaluations
found no cause for concern.
The child psychologist'sassessment painted a picture of
a family with healthy, caringrelationships.
There was no indication ofjealousy or rage from Burke
towards his sister, no signsthat pointed to him as a

(01:12:48):
perpetrator of such a violentact.
Despite these findings, thetheory implicating Burke
persisted in some quarters,fueled by the public's
fascination with the case andthe proliferation of theories in
the absence of clear answers.
For Burke, this meant growingup under the shadow of suspicion
, a child caught in the vortexof one of the most publicized

(01:13:11):
and scrutinized murderinvestigations in recent history
.
If we entertain the notion,however briefly, that Burke was
behind the attack, we are thenforced with a significant
challenge explaining thepeculiar marks on John Manet's
body that Lou Smith hadconvincingly argued were
consistent with a stun gun.
Advocates of the Burke theoryhave attempted to address this.

(01:13:35):
The best explanation they'veoffered is that these marks were
not from a stun gun but wereinstead stab marks made from
sections of Burke's metal modeltrain rail segments.
This theory, while imaginative,struggled to gain serious
traction among professionals inthe field.
This alternative explanationwas investigated by a British

(01:13:58):
medical investigator who foundthe train track theory to be
quote borderline fanciful atbest.
This assessment speaks to thechallenges of constructing a
plausible narrative that fitsall the known facts of the case.
The stun gun theory, supportedby Lou Smith's extensive
research and demonstration,seemed to align more closely

(01:14:19):
with the evidence at hand.
As we continue to navigate themurky waters of this case, we
encounter various theories andclaims, some more credible than
others.
Among these is the allegationof prior sexual abuse, a claim
that has been a focal point ofthe investigation and public
speculation.
However, new informationemerged in 1998 that offered a

(01:14:44):
different perspective,potentially challenging this
aspect of the case.
John Benet's formerpediatrician stepped forward
with critical insights.
He recounted that John Benethad been brought to him several
times prior to her murder withsymptoms of vaginitis.
Now, vaginitis in children isnot uncommon.

(01:15:04):
It can stem from various benigncauses, including irritation
from soap or other everydayfactors.
The pediatrician's accountsuggested a simple non-nepharius
explanation for the symptomsnoted in John Benet's autopsy.
The pediatrician emphasized theimportance of recognizing signs

(01:15:25):
of sexual abuse in hisprofession.
He was adamant that in hisprofessional judgment, he had
seen no indications of suchabuse in John Benet.
This testimony was significant,casting doubt on one of the
most disturbing aspects of thecase.

(01:15:45):
A pathologist in ColoradoSprings and an expert on abused
children reexamined the autopsyevidence and arrived at a
similar conclusion.
The findings of chronic vaginalinflammation which had fueled
these theories of sexual abusewere, in his view, being

(01:16:06):
overinterpreted.
He asserted that making leapsto conclusions of guilt based on
these findings was quote notbased on science.
In 2016, for an A&E special onthe case, a member of the
Boulder Police was confrontedwith this new information.
He admitted that he had beenunaware of John Benet's

(01:16:27):
treatment for vaginitis andexpressed surprise that this
detail had never been sharedwith him during the
investigation.
His reaction underscored acritical issue in the case the
potential for significantinformation to be overlooked or
under-emphasized In the puzzlethat is the John Benet case.

(01:16:55):
The timeline of events on thenight of her murder are crucial,
particularly when it comes tothe theories posited by the
Denver Police.
Their case against the parentshinges on this the idea that
John Benet was struck on thehead, rendering her unconscious,
long before the other aspectsof the crime, like the staging

(01:17:17):
of the kidnapping and theplacing of the grot around her
neck.
According to this theory, thehead blow was the initial act
and everything that followed wasan elaborate cover-up.
But here's where scienceclearly challenges this
narrative.
The autopsy revealed tellingdetails around the ligature

(01:17:38):
marks on John Benet's neck fromthe grot, small C-shaped bruises
and scratch marks.
They weren't just randominjuries.
They were self-inflicted, usedby John Benet's own fingernails
as she desperately tried to freeherself from the grot.
These marks tell a story of achild who was alive and

(01:17:59):
conscious during this brutalpart of the attack.
This is a critical piece ofevidence.
If John Benet had been renderedunconscious by the head blow,
as initially theorized by thepolice, these defensive marks
would not exist.
The very presence of these markstells us that the sequence of
events proposed by the policedoesn't align with the physical

(01:18:21):
evidence.
The injuries speak forthemselves, painting a narrative
that fundamentally underminesthe Boulder Police's theory.
The grotting, a horrifyingaspect of this crime, could not
have been a post-incidencestaging to cover up an
accidental killing within thefamily.
This realization is significant.

(01:18:42):
It not only challenges theprevailing theory but also opens
up the investigation to otherpossibilities, other sequences
of events that might align moreclosely with the physical
evidence.
In this complex and tragic case, the physical evidence provides

(01:19:15):
a voice to John Benet, a way topiece together the story of her
final moments.
But in this instance thatevidence points away from the
theory of an accidental killingfollowed by a staged crime scene
.
It's a powerful reminder of theimportance of following the
science of letting the evidenceguide the investigation, rather

(01:19:36):
than fitting the evidence into apreconceived narrative.
But die-hard followers of thiscase will likely have one more
question that's still burning intheir minds, one that the
Boulder Police have hung nearlytheir entire case on.
But what about the pineapple?
This piece of evidence hassparked numerous theories and

(01:19:57):
debates, particularly regardingits implications for the
involvement of John Benet'sfamily in the events of that
night.
A bowl of pineapple found onthe Ramsay's dining room table
becomes a significant piece ofthe puzzle when autopsy reports
reveal that pineapple was thelast thing John Benet ate before
her death.
None of the Ramses admitted topreparing or giving her the

(01:20:21):
pineapple, contradicting theirinitial statement that John
Benet was carried asleep fromthe car and put straight to bed
on the night of her death.
The presence of pineapple inher stomach suggests that she
must have been awake at somepoint after returning home.
Further complicating this isthe discovery of fingerprints
belonging to Patsy and BurkeRamsay on the pineapple bowl.

(01:20:43):
This detail has fueled thetheory that John Benet and her
brother, burke, may have gottenup together in the middle of the
night, as pineapple was knownto be Burke's favorite snack.
The interview with Burke Ramsayyears later added to the
speculation, as some perceivedhis response to being shown a
photo of the pineapple on thetable as suspicious.

(01:21:04):
However, it's important to notethat no conclusive physical

(01:21:41):
evidence directly ties Burke tothe crime.
The Ramses maintained thatBurke was in his room all night
and there was no physicalevidence to contradict this.
The fingerprints on the bowl,while intriguing, don't
definitively prove involvementin the crime, as time cannot be
attributed to fingerprints.
In the broader context of thecase, the pineapple evidence

(01:22:04):
presents yet another layer ofmystery.
It challenges us to considerthe family dynamics, the events
of that night and the possiblescenarios that could have led to
John Benet consuming thepineapple.
This detail, like so many inthis case raises more questions
than it answers, leaving us toponder the many possible

(01:22:24):
narratives that could explainwhat happened to John Benet
Ramsay.
In the years following JohnBenet's death, a perplexing and
disturbing trend emerged.
Various individuals cameforward claiming responsibility
for her murder.
Who were these individuals?
They varied widely inbackground and motivation.

(01:22:46):
Some were attention seekersdrawn to the notoriety of the
case.
Others were troubled souls,perhaps dealing with mental
health issues, who had becomeinexplicably entangled in the
narrative of the murder.
In some cases, theseindividuals seemed to seek a
strange sort of infamy byassociating themselves with one
of the most high-profile crimesin recent memory.

(01:23:08):
But why confess to such aheinous crime if one is innocent
?
The psychology behind falseconfessions can be complex.
It ranges from a desire fornotoriety to a misguided sense
of guilt or even coercion.
In the context of the Ramsaycase, these confessions often
seemed to be cries for attention, desperate acts by individuals

(01:23:31):
seeking a moment in thespotlight, however dark and
twisted that spotlight might be.
So how were these confessionsruled out?
Forensic evidence, especiallyDNA evidence played a critical
role.
The unidentified male DNA foundon John Benet's clothing has
been a key piece of evidence inexcluding these self-proclaimed

(01:23:52):
perpetrators.
Additionally, inconsistenciesin their stories, lack of
knowledge about key details ofthe crime and sometimes clear
evidence that they could nothave been at the crime scene,
all served to discredit theseclaims.
In a case as high-profile asJohn Benet's murder, it's
perhaps not surprising that itattracted false confessions.

(01:24:14):
Yet each time someone steppedforward claiming responsibility,
there was a flicker of hopethat the case might finally be
solved, only for it to beextinguished by the stark light
of evidence.
In fact, in the JohnBenet-Ramsie case, the journey
through the facts and evidenceoften intersects with a more

(01:24:36):
ethereal path, one that venturesinto the world of the
paranormal and the spiritual.
These stories, anecdotes andexperiences, while not grounded
in scientific evidence, as we'veseen in true crime, offer a
different lens through which toview the case, perhaps providing
insights into the unseen andthe unexplained.

(01:24:57):
They also speak to the enduringimpact of John Benet's story on
the collective consciousness.
Let's explore a few of theseaccounts, starting with an
experience from 2014 shared by a19-year-old college student.
In their new dorm-styleapartment, they befriended a
roommate who displayed a psychicconnection.

(01:25:18):
One night, after a series oflively college gatherings, the
roommate abruptly declaredthey're coming and identified
one of the arrivals as JohnBenet.
Seconds later, two young womenthen entered the scene, one
bearing a striking resemblanceto an older version of John

(01:25:39):
Benet.
The encounter left the studentsin shock, particularly when
their roommate casuallymentioned that one of the girls
was John Benet-Ramsie.
This eerie incident, with itsinexplicable elements and the
profound effect it had on thoseinvolved, adds a mysterious
layer to John Benet's legacy.
In another instance, just a fewyears ago, two friends

(01:26:02):
experimenting with the Ouijaboard decided to reach out to
John Benet's spirit.
Sceptical yet intrigued, theyasked questions about her
well-being and her killer.
Suddenly, they heard theunmistakable giggle of a little
girl, a sound so clear anddistinct that it left them all
terrified.
This experience, ending withthe pendulum moving back to the

(01:26:25):
middle of the board, by itself,adds to this enigma.
These stories, among others,offer a glimpse into the way
John Benet's memory continues toresonate with people.
In my experience, ghosts, in abroader sense, might be memories
that implore us not to forgetto learn from the past and carry

(01:26:45):
those lessons forward.
In the case of JohnBenet-Ramsie, her spirit,
whether perceived throughparanormal encounters or kept
alive in the hearts and minds ofthose who remember her, serves
as this kind of reminder.
While these stories might notprovide concrete answers to the
case, they contribute to thetapestry of John Benet's story,

(01:27:07):
a narrative that clearlytranscends the physical world.
Another experience shared by anindividual delves into a dream
encounter with John Benet.
In this vivid dream, the personfound themselves walking
through the Ramsay house guidedby a gentle, childlike presence.
They described feeling anoverwhelming sense of sadness

(01:27:29):
and longing, as if the spirit ofJohn Benet was attempting to
communicate something crucialabout her untimely demise.
Upon waking, the dreamer feltan unshakable connection to the
case, a deep empathy for JohnBenet that transcended the
boundaries of time and space.
Similarly, a medium recounted aseance where they claimed to

(01:27:50):
have contacted John Benet'sspirit.
In this otherworldlycommunication, the medium
described John Benet's presenceas both sorrowful and serene,
her spirit still seeking peaceand justice.
The attendees of the seancereported feeling a palpable
change in the atmosphere, asense of a young life cut
tragically short but stillresonating with those who seek

(01:28:13):
to understand her story.
These encounters with thespiritual echo of John Benet
remind us of the case'semotional depth.
They suggest that John Benet'sspirit, in whatever form it may
exist, continues to impact thosewho remember her.
These experiences also speak tothe human desire to connect

(01:28:34):
with the past, to find meaningin tragedy and to seek answers
in the unknown.
Reflecting on these paranormalaccounts, we are drawn to
consider the larger implicationsof such experiences.
They compel us to ponder themysteries of the afterlife and
the ways in which the spirits ofthose who have passed on might

(01:28:55):
continue to influence the living.
In the context of the JohnBenet-Ramsie case, these stories
offer a form of solace, a wayto engage with a tragedy that
has left so many unansweredquestions.
We are reminded that the linebetween the physical and the
spiritual world is often blurred, especially in cases as

(01:29:17):
emotionally charged andenigmatic as John Benet's.
These stories, while they maynot provide the answers we seek
about her death, offer adifferent kind of insight, one
that speaks to the enduringimpact of her life and the
collective desire to rememberand honour her.
As we draw to the close of thisepisode exploring the deep,

(01:29:37):
intricate layers of the JohnBenet-Ramsie case, we find
ourselves not just at the end ofa story but at the beginning of
understanding.
Throughout our journey tonight,we have traversed the stark
realities of a heartbreakingcrime, the complexities of an
investigation riddled with morequestions than answers, and the
ethereal realm of the paranormalthat this case has touched upon

(01:30:00):
.
So why does any of this matter?
Why are we drawn to storieslike John Benet's?
In grappling with thesequestions, we confront not just
the specifics of a single tragiccase, but the broader truths
about our world, our societiesand ourselves.
The John Benet-Ramsie case isn'tjust a story of a family's

(01:30:23):
unspeakable loss.
It's, yet again, another mirrorreflecting our collective fears
, our search for justice and ourfascination with the unknown.
This case, with its myriadtheories, its unexplainable
details and its haunting legacy,embodies the very essence of
when walls can talk.
Here, at the intersection ofparanormal mysteries and dark

(01:30:46):
histories, we find stories thatchallenge us, that compel us to
question and that remind us ofthe fragility and complexity of
life.
In these stories we seereflections of our own lives,
our own mysteries.
We are reminded that the worldis full of unanswered questions
and unresolved histories, andit's our curiosity, our need to

(01:31:10):
understand, that drives us tokeep exploring.
In the words of Rainer MariaRielke, be patient toward all
that is unsolved in your heartand try to love the answers
themselves.
Perhaps it's in embracing thequestions, rather than seeking
definitive answers, that we findthe true meaning and stories

(01:31:31):
like John Bene.
As we conclude, I leave youwith this thought In every
mystery, every unexplainedphenomenon, there's an
opportunity to reflect on thehuman condition, on the ways we
connect with each other and onour endless quest to understand
the unseen forces that shape ourworld.

(01:31:53):
What lessons can we take fromJohn Bene's story?
How does it challenge us tothink about justice, about the
paranormal and about the way wenavigate our complex modern
world?
Thank you for joining me onthis journey through one of the
most haunting and enduringmysteries of our time.
May we carry forward not justthe memory of John Bene Ramsey,

(01:32:18):
but a renewed sense of curiosityand empathy as we navigate the
stories and mysteries that awaitus.

All Episodes

4.4 | Keep Your Babies Close: The True Story of JonBenét Ramsey

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes present: Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial

Good Hang with Amy Poehler

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}4.4 | Keep Your Babies Close: The True Story of JonBenét Ramsey