Breaking the Silence: Overcoming Stigma and Finding Hope in Faith-based Therapy with Heidi Mortenson
June 27, 2023 • 28 mins
Have you ever wondered how therapy can transform lives, especially when it comes to mental health and faith?
Join us as we dive deep into this topic with our guest, Heidi Mortenson, a licensed marriage and family therapist and certified Daring Way facilitator.
Together, we explore the importance of therapy, the stigma around seeking counseling, and how Jesus is the ultimate therapist.
We talk through personal stories of how therapy played a crucial role in overcoming depression and discuss the challenges that many people face when seeking help, particularly within the Christian community. We chat about practical tips on finding the right therapist for you and the importance of committing to the process even when it's difficult.
You'll also learn about the power of authentic encouragement and the importance of knowing who you are in Christ when lifting others up. Heidi shares her insights on how encouragement should be tailored to each individual and why focusing on the positives instead of the negatives is crucial.
Don't miss this enlightening conversation that will challenge your views on therapy, mental health, and the role of faith in our healing journey!
Learn more about Heidi at heidimortensonlmft.com.
Follow on Instagram & Facebook: @AndyBHoward
Buy the book on Amazon: www.amazon.com/When-Words-Dont-Come-Easy/dp/1955362084
Listen to the first chapter: soundcloud.com/andy-howard-788712319
Learn more at AndyHoward.com!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's up everybody.
You are in for a treat today.
We have an amazing specialguest today.
She is an LMFT licensedmarriage and family therapist,
and therapy was so important forme in my role of getting
breakthrough through depression.
I honestly don't know where Iwould have been if I had not
(00:23):
fought through those kind ofcringy nerves of do I really
want to spill my guts to someoneI don't even know.
I had all these images, allthese things of what I thought
therapy was, and I was ignorantto what therapy is, and so I
would encourage you to find agodly, wise counselor or
(00:45):
therapist who you connect with,who you are willing to help you,
who has the same mission ofhelping you in the same goal of
seeing breakthrough in your life.
Don't be afraid to try, morethan one if needed.
Today you are in for a treatbecause Heidi Mortensen is going
(01:05):
to join us.
She is going to share somespiritual truths straight from
the word that explains whattherapy is and what counseling
is, and what Jesus thinks abouttherapy.
All that and more happens rightafter this.
(01:36):
Welcome back to the WinWordsDon't Come Easy podcast.
I am Andy Howard.
I am so excited for today Thosewho have read the book.
You know or you've heard mystory and you know how important
I talk about therapy, howimportant it is for you.
It was new to me at the time,but it is something that I value
(01:57):
today and it has helped me somuch With me.
And before I get too excited, ido want to read her bio so that
you can have a little bit of abackground on who Heidi
Mortensen is.
But I'm so excited to have you,heidi.
Let me just go ahead andintroduce you first and then I
want to set them up on who Heidiis.
But how are you doing today,heidi?
Speaker 2 (02:17):
I'm doing great.
I'm so excited to be here andhappy to be interviewing with
you.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Well, thank you so much for doing this, and I did
have the honor of being on yourpodcast a few weeks ago, and so
just even that time period wasso good.
I was like, oh, you got to comeshare this.
Yeah, mine, and so thank youfor returning the favor.
But I do want to tell peoplewho you are.
Heidi is a licensed marriage andfamily therapist and certified
(02:42):
daring way facilitator.
She provides mental healthcounseling with individuals,
families, teams and couples andowns a business in Minnesota
called Bridging Hope Counseling.
She is also the host of thepodcast Strong Tower Mental
Health and is the author of thebook The Brave Encourager.
She is passionate about peopleseeing the gold they have inside
themselves and others.
(03:04):
Her and her husband, tim, livein Blaine with their three
children, and that is so cool.
I love your bio and I love thatpart about helping others find
the gold they have inside themSo cool.
So tell us a little bit moreabout yourself.
How did you get into therapy?
Was it something you wanted todo all your life, and what led
(03:24):
you to this?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Yeah.
So it actually wasn't somethingthat I wanted to do all my life
.
When I went to undergraduateschool I was a business student
and super excited to take allthese business classes and I
took a general that was in thepsychology of marriage and
family, so it was just a generalin it, but he was one of those
(03:46):
professors that really gets youthinking.
You know how you have some ofthose really good professors and
they don't just tell you whatto think, they get you to think,
so that you're really thinkingon your own.
And he really got my curiositygoing about like what makes the
world go round.
And I remember I had a moment inthe hallway where I was
thinking about like families andthat like being in a happy
(04:08):
family and feeling joyful withyour family was really what
makes the world go round.
Like it doesn't matter if youdon't have loved ones with you
when you have all the money inthe world, but you really need
happy families.
And I was like maybe I need tolook into this.
And then I thought I would be adifferent kind of counselor,
because I'm not just you know,i'm not saying that.
(04:28):
You know other counselors arejust white walls and wanting to
diagnose.
But I just understand, you knowbusiness.
I grew up on a farm and youknow I'm kind of get that like
well, we don't always want to goto counseling and so I kind of
got that understanding of it'snot like the first thing that we
want to go do and sit and talkabout ourselves all the time and
sit and talk about our feelings, and you know, it's not
(04:49):
something that we race to do.
So I knew that I would be adifferent kind of counselor and
that the Lord could use that.
So then I pursued, you know,masters, and did all the things
while also pursuing my you know,finishing my degree in business
as well.
So that's how it came about.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Well, that is awesome and I love that and you're
exactly right For me.
My wife was the one whoencouraged me to to finally seek
counseling and I'm so gratefulfor it.
It turned out so good, but forthe longest I just had this
ideal and I don't want this tocome across the fence.
So this is just what I thoughtwas that you just I'd seen what
(05:25):
I only knew, what I knew right,and so I've seen the TV or
movies, how you lay on a couchleather couch images for
introvert.
I sounded like a nightmare tome, especially talking about
yourself opening up aboutyourself.
So will you explain?
maybe?
why is that such a big deal forus or what is it you think that
(05:48):
keeps people?
because what I learned when Iwent to college which I kind of
a long story when I went back tocollege after I got Peyton's
diagnosis and I thought I wasn'tgoing to be able to be a youth
pastor anymore, it was just somuch going on in my head.
Yeah, i thought about oh, ilove kids, i love coaching, i
love sports, so I thought I'd bea coach.
So one of those classes wasintroduction to psychology and I
(06:10):
met a therapist there that wasteaching that class and she said
all the cool people that sheknows in her life are trying to
make themselves better.
And that's when it finallyclicked.
There's nothing wrong like ifyou had a broken arm you'd go
see a doctor, or if you had abruise or anything like that.
So what do you, from from yourpoint of view, what do you see
as the hold up or the hang upthat people are just nervous or
(06:33):
just scared to seek counseling?
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Yeah, well, i think it's different with Christians
and non-Christians.
So I wanted to kind of answerit first, like in general, and
then I'd love to kind of answerit where I think there's an
issue with Christians.
I think some of it is just likethe stigma around there's
something wrong with me if I'mgoing to a counselor, like kind
of believing the lie, that if Iactually go see someone, that
(06:57):
means that there's somethingflawed and I don't want to, i
don't want to admit that, idon't want to look at myself, i
don't want to look at the thingsthat are wrong with me Instead
of seeing it as like I actuallywill improve, like you said,
like you can actually improvefrom going to therapy.
Um, so I think the the stigmais that there I don't want to
have something wrong with me.
(07:17):
I don't want, um, somebody tellme something worse that I, you
know, i wasn't thinking thatthere was something wrong with
me and now there is, and nowit's worse, and now I have all
this trauma that I didn't thinkI had in it.
So sometimes it's like I wouldjust rather not go and deal with
that and just be happy with mylife right now, like my life is
fine, why do I need to go dothat?
And so it just kind of.
(07:38):
You know, there's a stigmaaround it, um, and I think in
the in with Christians, um,there's many different camps,
but some believe that, like,psychology is of the devil and
that we shouldn't open this upand that we only need to go to
the word of God.
And if we actually go to aself-help book, if we go to
somebody else, and that'sinviting the devil in, and it's
(07:59):
an open door to the enemy, andso there's some Christians that
believe that.
So that's, that's some.
And then this is actually whatI would say my current belief is
, and this is actually what Ithink is some of the most
significant issue and why we'reactually in the struggle that
we're at right now, is that wedon't really utilize the Bible
(08:21):
to actually teach us how to healourselves, which is what
counseling is, and so, really,we need to be taking the Bible
and bringing in our mentalhealth with the Lord, and so,
and and I think the biggestissue actually comes from
leaders I think there's pastorsthat are not doing this, and so
when you have a leader, and youhave a pastor who is not talking
(08:42):
about their emotions, theirmental health, and bringing in
what the word of the Lord saysabout their mental health.
That trickles down to theirwhole congregation, all the
people that read their books andlisten to them, and so it
doesn't give them permission togo bring their emotions to the
Lord, bring their stuff to theLord and learn how to be a son
or daughter.
I mean, really, mental healthis just being a son or daughter
(09:05):
and saying God, i'm strugglingand you go to God, and then he
then helps us, he's ourcomforter, instead of always
going to all the things andnumbing ourselves with stuff.
And so I I think that there's asignificant issue with leaders
in the church not actuallybringing this up, so it gives
people in the congregationpermission to say, oh, if he's
(09:26):
doing it or she's doing it, ican do it too.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
That's good.
I, i, i remember as a youthpastor when, when I was
struggling, the height of mydepression and I, it was never
passed down.
I can honestly say that ourpastor never told us this.
It's just something that and Idon't know if I created it
myself or the enemy created itin my.
but you're a leader, you're apastor.
(09:52):
What will people think ifyou're going to counseling and
just all the things?
and it was just a battle, aspiritual battle.
You touched on it a little bitwith your last answer.
but what does Jesus think abouttherapy?
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Yeah, So Jesus is therapy, like he is our
therapist.
I did an interview with TimRoss last summer and the title
of the podcast was called God isa therapist, and he literally
pulls in from Genesis how God isour therapist.
And right at the beginning he'ssaying where are you, you know,
and he's asking these questionswith our therapist questions,
(10:31):
and that's literally what theLord is doing.
He's asking us to identify thethings that he already knows
about us, but he's wanting us toknow those things about us, and
so God is the one who'sactually revealing those things
at us that need to be taken away, like in John 15, we take away
the dead branches, he prunes us,and so that's what God does.
(10:52):
He's actually our therapist andwe need to let him be our
therapist.
And so often we just oh, i gotit.
We try to be in control and I'mgood and I would say a lot of
it's pride, a lot of it can betrauma and just you know, not
really, and I think some of it'sjust an understanding, just
really understanding how theword of God works and how God is
(11:15):
, and knowing the power of howhe works.
But that's my answer, with whathe thinks.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Well, I love that.
It is so true.
We are in control.
Maybe a part of it as well.
We love to be in control andit's just easier, like if I have
my security and, like youmentioned, maybe there's a fear
of what may be dug up from yourpast or some trauma that you've
(11:40):
been pressing down, and it'sjust easier to keep battling
with all this heavy load thatyou're in your mind.
You feel that it's just easierto carry my own stuff than
asking for help And it is good,and when you think about it that
way, that he already knows allthis.
So there's nothing, i don't knowwhy.
And again, there's a spiritualattack from the enemy side of
(12:03):
things that causes confusionbecause he's a liar.
He always speaks his lies, butwhen you think you're afraid of
something being unveiled orafraid of being open, when he
knows you more than anyone knowsyou yourself.
So there shouldn't be a fear inthat part.
But we are, we're human and wefall for things.
You wrote a book.
(12:24):
I talked about that in theintroduction there, your bio
Tell us about that.
It's called.
Let me find it again the braveencourager.
I would love to hear about that.
Can you tell?
Speaker 2 (12:36):
us a little more about that.
Yeah, sure.
So in my experience of being atherapist and just you know
human of who I am, i realizedthat we really struggle with
encouragement, and I think wethink we're encouraging and we
think that we're helping otherpeople, but we're often actually
criticizing them and pointingout things that they're not
(12:58):
doing right Or that they need toimprove, and things that we
think that they should do.
And so I wrote the book, reallyone kind of for myself, because
I saw myself as an encourager,but I wasn't always doing it
right, like I was screwing it upmyself, but something like the
Lord was showing me, though,that my heart was good.
So I was like, okay, god, myheart is good, but I'm speaking
(13:19):
out shrapnel, help me with this.
And so the book really is aboutencouragement.
So what is encouragement?
How to encourage?
But I actually talk about howto do it authentically, and I
talk about, like, the point ofreally knowing who you are in
Christ and being able to kind ofbe authentic yourself, so that
it comes from this natural place, instead of like forcing it and
(13:42):
trying to, like you know,shovel it in somebody's face,
and that it really when you knowwho you are and you love who
you are and you're encouragingto yourself.
It just flows So you're able tobe yourself to other people.
You're not doing it.
You know like somebody else.
You know like you might have ayou know a disgruntled uncle.
That's like you know thisreally tough guy that gives you
(14:02):
the most beautiful encouragingword, but he does it in the way
that he does it and it's hispersonality, and so
encouragement is not somethingwhere it fits in a box.
It's basically you just beingJesus to other people and
pulling the gold.
I think we often point out thedirt that we see instead of
actually pulling the gold.
So I want to give you anexample of this.
(14:23):
So I remember when I was youngerwatching I love sports as well
And I would my brothers wrestled, and I remember watching this
dad just get on the ground andhe was just like going at it,
yelling at a son, and he was sointense that he was almost on
the mat watching a son, and Ifeel like the Lord showed me
(14:43):
like he loves his son.
He loves his son so much thathe's so intense that he's on the
mat, but he is not doing it inthe way that I want him to.
Because this son is not like,oh my gosh, my dad is like all
over me, he's not letting mebreathe, he's not letting me
actually do what I really feelthat I can do And he's not even
(15:05):
giving me space to like believein myself and make mistakes.
And this is often what parentswill do.
Is we just crowd our childrenAnd it's like we got to let them
breathe and trust that God isworking in them.
And so that kind of gave mesome vision into how we get
encouragement wrong.
Because that dad believes he'sencouraging his son Come on, you
(15:27):
got it, go harder.
Whatever he's yelling at him,he believes that's encouragement
.
And so that's where I kind oftalk about that.
Even like the grandma who haslike 20 grandchildren and all
these children and her way ofencouragement is no, are you
sure that you should be doingthat?
You know that you're going toget hurt if you do that.
I don't think that you shoulddo that.
(15:48):
You know there's a lot ofdangerous people in Nashville or
whatever it is that.
And it's all this like worryand concern.
And she believes, because herheart is good and she loves all
these family members, that she'sencouraging.
But that is the opposite ofwhat's happening.
It's not encouragement.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
And that is good, and just even as you're saying that
, i've had so many flashbackscoming.
Parenting is so hard.
They don't give me the manual,they are the things that it
looks like before I had kids andeven watching other parents and
I would say, well, i will neverdo that or whatever.
That's the famous last words,right?
(16:26):
And just even that.
As you're talking aboutencouraging, i see so many
things And as a daddy, i love mygirls.
I got three girls, so all threebeautiful girls.
I love them so much.
And so when I see things asencouragement, so almost like
the five love languages, i'mdoing what I feel like is
helping them.
But if they're, if I'm notspeaking their language, if
(16:47):
they're not receiving it, thatway they may hear it.
Maybe it's my tone, or maybeit's just a way I'm saying it Or
what I'm saying, like you werepointing out, like the dad or
the grandma just throwing inworry or whatever.
They're not receiving theencouragement as encouragement.
So there's just so much tolearn from that.
That was so good.
Well, we have a few moreminutes left here, but is there
(17:10):
just anything that's justpressing on your heart that you
would like to share with us thatwould bring hope or
encouragement or just somethingyou want to say today.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Yeah, i think I'd love to share kind of some of
the things that I feel that I'velearned by stepping into just
really understanding the churchmore, with mental health, and I
just think it's an importanttopic to talk about and
something that we can kind ofget wrong.
So my testimony actuallydoesn't start with being this on
fire, christian and you know Ididn't have a podcast and I
didn't have a book And I learnedby going through difficulties
(17:46):
myself was that I had it wrongAnd I was this lukewarm
Christian that had a cross on myneck And I thought I was like
this good person and love Jesus,but I really didn't know God in
the way that he actuallyintends.
And when I, when I reallystarted finding out more about
how God works, the Bible camealive to me.
All these things I starteddiving into.
(18:08):
What was I doing wrong?
Like what did I get wrong as atherapist that I like miss this
myself because I'm a therapist,like I should.
Why was I in that place?
And that's why I was asking God.
I was like God I shouldn't bein this place And I like got on
my knees and I surrendered tohim And he started showing me
things that are in the Bible,like he's our deliverer, and
there's many different likeinner healing techniques that
(18:30):
use Matthew 1128, which has cometo me all who are weary and
heavy burden, and I will giveyou rest for your souls Like how
do we go to him as a little kidto get rest for our emotions?
And he started showing me allthese ways that we get it wrong
And what he wants us to do.
And then I was like, ok.
Then why are we?
OK, you're showing me this.
(18:51):
What's wrong?
Why is this happening?
And I'm like, ok.
Then I learned about all thesedifferent fields of faith.
You know, there's charismaticand there's Lutheran and there's
Catholic, and there's all thesedifferent beliefs And some of
them are like, well, we don'tbelieve that.
You know, christians can have ademon and we don't believe this
.
And there's all these differentbeliefs And I'm like, well,
what does?
what does God say?
And like, what's the fruit?
And so what I've really foundis that what the word of God
(19:14):
says is that Jesus is the God.
Jesus is our deliverer, and itsays it in the Lord's prayer.
You know deliver us from evil,like he, literally.
That's when the disciples sayhow should we pray?
That was in the Lord's prayerof how we should pray, and he is
our deliverer, but it doesn'talways look like dramatic
(19:34):
casting out demons.
Sometimes it's just himcomforting us as we go to him
and cry and allow him to comfortus.
But we have to let him do that.
So often we try to stay incontrol and we try to like put
on this like beautiful face andor tough face, and we're not
really knowing how to be a sonor daughter and where this comes
(19:58):
from our wounds, from ourchildhood.
It comes from attachment.
So when we have attachmentissues with our mom and our dad
or other figures, then westruggle to attach to God.
So this is why we have to learnhow to, you know, go to the
Lord so that we can heal fromdifferent wounds.
So, for example, if you had aparent who was very
(20:21):
authoritarian and like you knowyou have to this is how it is
And what I say goes and theydidn't explain things.
So there's nothing wrong with aparent being in charge.
But sometimes it's OK to saythis is why I'm doing it, you
know, to really kind of give thekid honor and like explain it
to them and and to know But butI'm boss, you know that I'm your
parent, but this is why theythen can learn that God is this
(20:44):
dictator.
And so then you have thispicture of God as a dictator
because your dad was a dictator,and so you don't really get
this real connected, lovingfather because of the way your
parents raised you.
And so from this course oflearning about inner healing,
deliverance, and you know whatthe Bible says about mental
health, i really started tolearn the importance of of
(21:06):
attachment, wounds and how theLord really wants us.
The whole goal is that we'reconnected to him, that we're
connected to God and that weknow Jesus is God, father, god,
jesus, or, excuse me, god isFather, god is Son and God is
Holy Spirit.
And then we know every singlepart of that and we're in
communion with him every day,all day, and it's this natural
(21:30):
flow of being a child.
It all comes back to you know,i'm a child of God.
Like it's just simple.
It's not this big, crazy, weirddeal, it's simple, it's.
It's the song that we sang whenwe were in Sunday school.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
I love that so much.
I said we were closing back.
I got one more question for you, but as you were talking, i was
thinking about someone who wehad talked about earlier wanting
to better themselves.
For someone who maybe this isthe first time they've even ever
listened to a therapist or evenheard about therapy, what would
(22:06):
you tell them if they don'teven know where to start?
One, if they don't know if theyeven need therapy, but two just
some thoughts have startedcoming in their head about oh,
maybe I need to work throughsomething.
How would you encourage them tofind a therapist?
and then what would their nextstep be?
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Yeah, well, first of all, I would tell them to be
empowered and encouraged thatyou get to choose.
So there are therapists outthere that that aren't really
doing their own work, if thatmakes sense, like they're not
doing their own therapy.
So really find somebody thatyou trust and you like.
Don't just call and say, oh,you take my insurance and go to
somebody just because they takeyour insurance And then you're
(22:47):
with somebody that you reallydon't connect with and you
really don't feel very connectedwith.
Find somebody who you like.
Okay, that's one thing that Iwould say is that just to be
really empowered, that if youmeet with somebody and it's not
a good fit, it's okay to stopgoing, but don't give up.
The way to start is you couldcall your insurance company like
, hey, who's in my network?
(23:08):
That's one way if you want touse insurance.
Or you can literally justGoogle Christian counselors in
my area, family therapists in myarea.
You can just Google it andsearch.
But the next piece of it isreally making sure that you feel
connected with them.
I even will do like we'll dohalf an hour consults with
(23:28):
people.
It's not therapy, but it's ourway to be able to say like,
here's what I'm like.
This is my style.
These are some of the thingsthat I do.
What is it that you're lookingfor?
And you can find out.
If it's a fit, maybe talk tothem on the phone and ask them
some questions.
I would ask them, like do youdo your own therapy?
Like, ask them questions.
Don't be afraid to find outwhere they're at, because if
(23:53):
their answer is well, why isthat important to you?
Because I'm taught these things.
I'm taught these things to haveit be about.
It's about the client, it's notabout me.
But what I have learned throughthis is this is a relational
interaction, and so if you don'tfeel like you trust me and you
feel safe with me, this isn'tgoing to go anywhere, because
(24:14):
Jesus is relational.
He wants us to know each otherand to know him, and so that
goes with this person thatyou're going to go tell all your
secrets to.
So I'm going to tell you askthem the questions, and if they
get weird about it, then they'reprobably not for you.
So, and you know, obviously, behonoring and be respectful.
Don't start asking themquestions that are personal or
(24:36):
not.
And then schedule theappointment and make it happen
Like a lot of times people willlike, oh, push it off, and then
they don't have it.
And then like make a commitmentfor at least like four to six
months and go go regularly,because it takes time to start
to feel safe, to start talkingabout things and make a
commitment.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
I would say that is so true because in the moment
when you have that emotionalmoment of, okay, i'm doing this,
i'm ready, i'm committing, it'sso easy, let's book it up,
whatever.
But then one 30 shows up andit's like I don't know that I
want to.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
I don't want to walk through that door.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
It's time.
So, yeah, make that commitment,but you owe it to yourself, and
I agree with just everythingyou said.
From my standpoint, i wasblessed that the very first one
I found was just amazing in myconnection, just felt great And
she prayed with us and just allour beliefs lined up from the
beginning, and so I wouldencourage, if you're a believer
(25:35):
as well, find Godly Christiancounseling So important for you.
But, thank you, heidi.
How can people find you if theywant to find out more about
your podcast or find out aboutyour book or any of that?
How can they connect with you?
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Sure, yeah, so my website is actually just my name
.
It's Heidi Mortensencom.
He I D I M O R T E N S O N dotcom.
And then my podcast is calledStrong Tower Mental Health, so
you can either find that throughcharisma or just you can just
search it in Apple podcasts orSpotify, wherever you can find
(26:14):
it.
I'm also on YouTube andInstagram and TikTok.
I started TikTok last summer,which has really been really fun
, and then the book you can findon Amazon as well as my website
, so it's called the BraveEncourager.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Well, this has been so fun, heidi, and we will have
to have you back.
I love for our podcast.
It's about hope mainly, but Ilove we talk about marriage, we
talk about parenting, and so Isee there's so much more that we
could actually dive in with you, but for the second time we
will bring you back in anothertime, but thank you for joining
us And we definitely love tohave you back.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Thank you so much for having me.
It's been an honor.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Well, thanks again And we will definitely connect
soon.
I hope you enjoyed that as muchas I did, heidi, that was
amazing.
That was amazing.
Thank you for sharing yourheart.
Again, go check out her book,check out her podcast.
You can learn more from herwebsite that she mentioned
before Heidi Mortensen dot com.
Again, if this is your firsttime here and this has been a
(27:14):
blessing to you I pray that youwill share this episode with a
friend who's who's in need tohear this episode, hear this
podcast, so please share thatwith them.
Also, if you haven't got thebook yet, when Words Don't Come
Easy, i talk about how therapyhelped my life and how it
changed my life.
So you can get that atAndyHowardcom and find out so
(27:36):
much more about my journey withtherapy.
But all that more.
At AndyHowardcom you can findout where I'm going to be
speaking.
I will read it for you onAudible.
It's even available on Kindle.
Thanks again for joining us.
You guys Can't wait to see youagain soon.
God bless.
Thanks so much for tuning in.
If this episode helped you inany way, it would mean the world
(28:00):
to me If you would leave areview and share it with
somebody else.
Thanks so much, i'll catch younext time.
What's up everybody.
You are in for a treat today.
We have an amazing specialguest today.
She is an LMFT licensedmarriage and family therapist,
and therapy was so important forme in my role of getting
breakthrough through depression.
I honestly don't know where Iwould have been if I had not
(00:23):
fought through those kind ofcringy nerves of do I really
want to spill my guts to someoneI don't even know.
I had all these images, allthese things of what I thought
therapy was, and I was ignorantto what therapy is, and so I
would encourage you to find agodly, wise counselor or
(00:45):
therapist who you connect with,who you are willing to help you,
who has the same mission ofhelping you in the same goal of
seeing breakthrough in your life.
Don't be afraid to try, morethan one if needed.
Today you are in for a treatbecause Heidi Mortensen is going
(01:05):
to join us.
She is going to share somespiritual truths straight from
the word that explains whattherapy is and what counseling
is, and what Jesus thinks abouttherapy.
All that and more happens rightafter this.
(01:36):
Welcome back to the WinWordsDon't Come Easy podcast.
I am Andy Howard.
I am so excited for today Thosewho have read the book.
You know or you've heard mystory and you know how important
I talk about therapy, howimportant it is for you.
It was new to me at the time,but it is something that I value
(01:57):
today and it has helped me somuch With me.
And before I get too excited, ido want to read her bio so that
you can have a little bit of abackground on who Heidi
Mortensen is.
But I'm so excited to have you,heidi.
Let me just go ahead andintroduce you first and then I
want to set them up on who Heidiis.
But how are you doing today,heidi?
Speaker 2 (02:17):
I'm doing great.
I'm so excited to be here andhappy to be interviewing with
you.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Well, thank you so much for doing this, and I did
have the honor of being on yourpodcast a few weeks ago, and so
just even that time period wasso good.
I was like, oh, you got to comeshare this.
Yeah, mine, and so thank youfor returning the favor.
But I do want to tell peoplewho you are.
Heidi is a licensed marriage andfamily therapist and certified
(02:42):
daring way facilitator.
She provides mental healthcounseling with individuals,
families, teams and couples andowns a business in Minnesota
called Bridging Hope Counseling.
She is also the host of thepodcast Strong Tower Mental
Health and is the author of thebook The Brave Encourager.
She is passionate about peopleseeing the gold they have inside
themselves and others.
(03:04):
Her and her husband, tim, livein Blaine with their three
children, and that is so cool.
I love your bio and I love thatpart about helping others find
the gold they have inside themSo cool.
So tell us a little bit moreabout yourself.
How did you get into therapy?
Was it something you wanted todo all your life, and what led
(03:24):
you to this?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Yeah.
So it actually wasn't somethingthat I wanted to do all my life
.
When I went to undergraduateschool I was a business student
and super excited to take allthese business classes and I
took a general that was in thepsychology of marriage and
family, so it was just a generalin it, but he was one of those
(03:46):
professors that really gets youthinking.
You know how you have some ofthose really good professors and
they don't just tell you whatto think, they get you to think,
so that you're really thinkingon your own.
And he really got my curiositygoing about like what makes the
world go round.
And I remember I had a moment inthe hallway where I was
thinking about like families andthat like being in a happy
(04:08):
family and feeling joyful withyour family was really what
makes the world go round.
Like it doesn't matter if youdon't have loved ones with you
when you have all the money inthe world, but you really need
happy families.
And I was like maybe I need tolook into this.
And then I thought I would be adifferent kind of counselor,
because I'm not just you know,i'm not saying that.
(04:28):
You know other counselors arejust white walls and wanting to
diagnose.
But I just understand, you knowbusiness.
I grew up on a farm and youknow I'm kind of get that like
well, we don't always want to goto counseling and so I kind of
got that understanding of it'snot like the first thing that we
want to go do and sit and talkabout ourselves all the time and
sit and talk about our feelings, and you know, it's not
(04:49):
something that we race to do.
So I knew that I would be adifferent kind of counselor and
that the Lord could use that.
So then I pursued, you know,masters, and did all the things
while also pursuing my you know,finishing my degree in business
as well.
So that's how it came about.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Well, that is awesome and I love that and you're
exactly right For me.
My wife was the one whoencouraged me to to finally seek
counseling and I'm so gratefulfor it.
It turned out so good, but forthe longest I just had this
ideal and I don't want this tocome across the fence.
So this is just what I thoughtwas that you just I'd seen what
(05:25):
I only knew, what I knew right,and so I've seen the TV or
movies, how you lay on a couchleather couch images for
introvert.
I sounded like a nightmare tome, especially talking about
yourself opening up aboutyourself.
So will you explain?
maybe?
why is that such a big deal forus or what is it you think that
(05:48):
keeps people?
because what I learned when Iwent to college which I kind of
a long story when I went back tocollege after I got Peyton's
diagnosis and I thought I wasn'tgoing to be able to be a youth
pastor anymore, it was just somuch going on in my head.
Yeah, i thought about oh, ilove kids, i love coaching, i
love sports, so I thought I'd bea coach.
So one of those classes wasintroduction to psychology and I
(06:10):
met a therapist there that wasteaching that class and she said
all the cool people that sheknows in her life are trying to
make themselves better.
And that's when it finallyclicked.
There's nothing wrong like ifyou had a broken arm you'd go
see a doctor, or if you had abruise or anything like that.
So what do you, from from yourpoint of view, what do you see
as the hold up or the hang upthat people are just nervous or
(06:33):
just scared to seek counseling?
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Yeah, well, i think it's different with Christians
and non-Christians.
So I wanted to kind of answerit first, like in general, and
then I'd love to kind of answerit where I think there's an
issue with Christians.
I think some of it is just likethe stigma around there's
something wrong with me if I'mgoing to a counselor, like kind
of believing the lie, that if Iactually go see someone, that
(06:57):
means that there's somethingflawed and I don't want to, i
don't want to admit that, idon't want to look at myself, i
don't want to look at the thingsthat are wrong with me Instead
of seeing it as like I actuallywill improve, like you said,
like you can actually improvefrom going to therapy.
Um, so I think the the stigmais that there I don't want to
have something wrong with me.
(07:17):
I don't want, um, somebody tellme something worse that I, you
know, i wasn't thinking thatthere was something wrong with
me and now there is, and nowit's worse, and now I have all
this trauma that I didn't thinkI had in it.
So sometimes it's like I wouldjust rather not go and deal with
that and just be happy with mylife right now, like my life is
fine, why do I need to go dothat?
And so it just kind of.
(07:38):
You know, there's a stigmaaround it, um, and I think in
the in with Christians, um,there's many different camps,
but some believe that, like,psychology is of the devil and
that we shouldn't open this upand that we only need to go to
the word of God.
And if we actually go to aself-help book, if we go to
somebody else, and that'sinviting the devil in, and it's
(07:59):
an open door to the enemy, andso there's some Christians that
believe that.
So that's, that's some.
And then this is actually whatI would say my current belief is
, and this is actually what Ithink is some of the most
significant issue and why we'reactually in the struggle that
we're at right now, is that wedon't really utilize the Bible
(08:21):
to actually teach us how to healourselves, which is what
counseling is, and so, really,we need to be taking the Bible
and bringing in our mentalhealth with the Lord, and so,
and and I think the biggestissue actually comes from
leaders I think there's pastorsthat are not doing this, and so
when you have a leader, and youhave a pastor who is not talking
(08:42):
about their emotions, theirmental health, and bringing in
what the word of the Lord saysabout their mental health.
That trickles down to theirwhole congregation, all the
people that read their books andlisten to them, and so it
doesn't give them permission togo bring their emotions to the
Lord, bring their stuff to theLord and learn how to be a son
or daughter.
I mean, really, mental healthis just being a son or daughter
(09:05):
and saying God, i'm strugglingand you go to God, and then he
then helps us, he's ourcomforter, instead of always
going to all the things andnumbing ourselves with stuff.
And so I I think that there's asignificant issue with leaders
in the church not actuallybringing this up, so it gives
people in the congregationpermission to say, oh, if he's
(09:26):
doing it or she's doing it, ican do it too.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
That's good.
I, i, i remember as a youthpastor when, when I was
struggling, the height of mydepression and I, it was never
passed down.
I can honestly say that ourpastor never told us this.
It's just something that and Idon't know if I created it
myself or the enemy created itin my.
but you're a leader, you're apastor.
(09:52):
What will people think ifyou're going to counseling and
just all the things?
and it was just a battle, aspiritual battle.
You touched on it a little bitwith your last answer.
but what does Jesus think abouttherapy?
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Yeah, So Jesus is therapy, like he is our
therapist.
I did an interview with TimRoss last summer and the title
of the podcast was called God isa therapist, and he literally
pulls in from Genesis how God isour therapist.
And right at the beginning he'ssaying where are you, you know,
and he's asking these questionswith our therapist questions,
(10:31):
and that's literally what theLord is doing.
He's asking us to identify thethings that he already knows
about us, but he's wanting us toknow those things about us, and
so God is the one who'sactually revealing those things
at us that need to be taken away, like in John 15, we take away
the dead branches, he prunes us,and so that's what God does.
(10:52):
He's actually our therapist andwe need to let him be our
therapist.
And so often we just oh, i gotit.
We try to be in control and I'mgood and I would say a lot of
it's pride, a lot of it can betrauma and just you know, not
really, and I think some of it'sjust an understanding, just
really understanding how theword of God works and how God is
(11:15):
, and knowing the power of howhe works.
But that's my answer, with whathe thinks.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Well, I love that.
It is so true.
We are in control.
Maybe a part of it as well.
We love to be in control andit's just easier, like if I have
my security and, like youmentioned, maybe there's a fear
of what may be dug up from yourpast or some trauma that you've
(11:40):
been pressing down, and it'sjust easier to keep battling
with all this heavy load thatyou're in your mind.
You feel that it's just easierto carry my own stuff than
asking for help And it is good,and when you think about it that
way, that he already knows allthis.
So there's nothing, i don't knowwhy.
And again, there's a spiritualattack from the enemy side of
(12:03):
things that causes confusionbecause he's a liar.
He always speaks his lies, butwhen you think you're afraid of
something being unveiled orafraid of being open, when he
knows you more than anyone knowsyou yourself.
So there shouldn't be a fear inthat part.
But we are, we're human and wefall for things.
You wrote a book.
(12:24):
I talked about that in theintroduction there, your bio
Tell us about that.
It's called.
Let me find it again the braveencourager.
I would love to hear about that.
Can you tell?
Speaker 2 (12:36):
us a little more about that.
Yeah, sure.
So in my experience of being atherapist and just you know
human of who I am, i realizedthat we really struggle with
encouragement, and I think wethink we're encouraging and we
think that we're helping otherpeople, but we're often actually
criticizing them and pointingout things that they're not
(12:58):
doing right Or that they need toimprove, and things that we
think that they should do.
And so I wrote the book, reallyone kind of for myself, because
I saw myself as an encourager,but I wasn't always doing it
right, like I was screwing it upmyself, but something like the
Lord was showing me, though,that my heart was good.
So I was like, okay, god, myheart is good, but I'm speaking
(13:19):
out shrapnel, help me with this.
And so the book really is aboutencouragement.
So what is encouragement?
How to encourage?
But I actually talk about howto do it authentically, and I
talk about, like, the point ofreally knowing who you are in
Christ and being able to kind ofbe authentic yourself, so that
it comes from this natural place, instead of like forcing it and
(13:42):
trying to, like you know,shovel it in somebody's face,
and that it really when you knowwho you are and you love who
you are and you're encouragingto yourself.
It just flows So you're able tobe yourself to other people.
You're not doing it.
You know like somebody else.
You know like you might have ayou know a disgruntled uncle.
That's like you know thisreally tough guy that gives you
(14:02):
the most beautiful encouragingword, but he does it in the way
that he does it and it's hispersonality, and so
encouragement is not somethingwhere it fits in a box.
It's basically you just beingJesus to other people and
pulling the gold.
I think we often point out thedirt that we see instead of
actually pulling the gold.
So I want to give you anexample of this.
(14:23):
So I remember when I was youngerwatching I love sports as well
And I would my brothers wrestled, and I remember watching this
dad just get on the ground andhe was just like going at it,
yelling at a son, and he was sointense that he was almost on
the mat watching a son, and Ifeel like the Lord showed me
(14:43):
like he loves his son.
He loves his son so much thathe's so intense that he's on the
mat, but he is not doing it inthe way that I want him to.
Because this son is not like,oh my gosh, my dad is like all
over me, he's not letting mebreathe, he's not letting me
actually do what I really feelthat I can do And he's not even
(15:05):
giving me space to like believein myself and make mistakes.
And this is often what parentswill do.
Is we just crowd our childrenAnd it's like we got to let them
breathe and trust that God isworking in them.
And so that kind of gave mesome vision into how we get
encouragement wrong.
Because that dad believes he'sencouraging his son Come on, you
(15:27):
got it, go harder.
Whatever he's yelling at him,he believes that's encouragement
.
And so that's where I kind oftalk about that.
Even like the grandma who haslike 20 grandchildren and all
these children and her way ofencouragement is no, are you
sure that you should be doingthat?
You know that you're going toget hurt if you do that.
I don't think that you shoulddo that.
(15:48):
You know there's a lot ofdangerous people in Nashville or
whatever it is that.
And it's all this like worryand concern.
And she believes, because herheart is good and she loves all
these family members, that she'sencouraging.
But that is the opposite ofwhat's happening.
It's not encouragement.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
And that is good, and just even as you're saying that
, i've had so many flashbackscoming.
Parenting is so hard.
They don't give me the manual,they are the things that it
looks like before I had kids andeven watching other parents and
I would say, well, i will neverdo that or whatever.
That's the famous last words,right?
(16:26):
And just even that.
As you're talking aboutencouraging, i see so many
things And as a daddy, i love mygirls.
I got three girls, so all threebeautiful girls.
I love them so much.
And so when I see things asencouragement, so almost like
the five love languages, i'mdoing what I feel like is
helping them.
But if they're, if I'm notspeaking their language, if
(16:47):
they're not receiving it, thatway they may hear it.
Maybe it's my tone, or maybeit's just a way I'm saying it Or
what I'm saying, like you werepointing out, like the dad or
the grandma just throwing inworry or whatever.
They're not receiving theencouragement as encouragement.
So there's just so much tolearn from that.
That was so good.
Well, we have a few moreminutes left here, but is there
(17:10):
just anything that's justpressing on your heart that you
would like to share with us thatwould bring hope or
encouragement or just somethingyou want to say today.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Yeah, i think I'd love to share kind of some of
the things that I feel that I'velearned by stepping into just
really understanding the churchmore, with mental health, and I
just think it's an importanttopic to talk about and
something that we can kind ofget wrong.
So my testimony actuallydoesn't start with being this on
fire, christian and you know Ididn't have a podcast and I
didn't have a book And I learnedby going through difficulties
(17:46):
myself was that I had it wrongAnd I was this lukewarm
Christian that had a cross on myneck And I thought I was like
this good person and love Jesus,but I really didn't know God in
the way that he actuallyintends.
And when I, when I reallystarted finding out more about
how God works, the Bible camealive to me.
All these things I starteddiving into.
(18:08):
What was I doing wrong?
Like what did I get wrong as atherapist that I like miss this
myself because I'm a therapist,like I should.
Why was I in that place?
And that's why I was asking God.
I was like God I shouldn't bein this place And I like got on
my knees and I surrendered tohim And he started showing me
things that are in the Bible,like he's our deliverer, and
there's many different likeinner healing techniques that
(18:30):
use Matthew 1128, which has cometo me all who are weary and
heavy burden, and I will giveyou rest for your souls Like how
do we go to him as a little kidto get rest for our emotions?
And he started showing me allthese ways that we get it wrong
And what he wants us to do.
And then I was like, ok.
Then why are we?
OK, you're showing me this.
(18:51):
What's wrong?
Why is this happening?
And I'm like, ok.
Then I learned about all thesedifferent fields of faith.
You know, there's charismaticand there's Lutheran and there's
Catholic, and there's all thesedifferent beliefs And some of
them are like, well, we don'tbelieve that.
You know, christians can have ademon and we don't believe this
.
And there's all these differentbeliefs And I'm like, well,
what does?
what does God say?
And like, what's the fruit?
And so what I've really foundis that what the word of God
(19:14):
says is that Jesus is the God.
Jesus is our deliverer, and itsays it in the Lord's prayer.
You know deliver us from evil,like he, literally.
That's when the disciples sayhow should we pray?
That was in the Lord's prayerof how we should pray, and he is
our deliverer, but it doesn'talways look like dramatic
(19:34):
casting out demons.
Sometimes it's just himcomforting us as we go to him
and cry and allow him to comfortus.
But we have to let him do that.
So often we try to stay incontrol and we try to like put
on this like beautiful face andor tough face, and we're not
really knowing how to be a sonor daughter and where this comes
(19:58):
from our wounds, from ourchildhood.
It comes from attachment.
So when we have attachmentissues with our mom and our dad
or other figures, then westruggle to attach to God.
So this is why we have to learnhow to, you know, go to the
Lord so that we can heal fromdifferent wounds.
So, for example, if you had aparent who was very
(20:21):
authoritarian and like you knowyou have to this is how it is
And what I say goes and theydidn't explain things.
So there's nothing wrong with aparent being in charge.
But sometimes it's OK to saythis is why I'm doing it, you
know, to really kind of give thekid honor and like explain it
to them and and to know But butI'm boss, you know that I'm your
parent, but this is why theythen can learn that God is this
(20:44):
dictator.
And so then you have thispicture of God as a dictator
because your dad was a dictator,and so you don't really get
this real connected, lovingfather because of the way your
parents raised you.
And so from this course oflearning about inner healing,
deliverance, and you know whatthe Bible says about mental
health, i really started tolearn the importance of of
(21:06):
attachment, wounds and how theLord really wants us.
The whole goal is that we'reconnected to him, that we're
connected to God and that weknow Jesus is God, father, god,
jesus, or, excuse me, god isFather, god is Son and God is
Holy Spirit.
And then we know every singlepart of that and we're in
communion with him every day,all day, and it's this natural
(21:30):
flow of being a child.
It all comes back to you know,i'm a child of God.
Like it's just simple.
It's not this big, crazy, weirddeal, it's simple, it's.
It's the song that we sang whenwe were in Sunday school.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
I love that so much.
I said we were closing back.
I got one more question for you, but as you were talking, i was
thinking about someone who wehad talked about earlier wanting
to better themselves.
For someone who maybe this isthe first time they've even ever
listened to a therapist or evenheard about therapy, what would
(22:06):
you tell them if they don'teven know where to start?
One, if they don't know if theyeven need therapy, but two just
some thoughts have startedcoming in their head about oh,
maybe I need to work throughsomething.
How would you encourage them tofind a therapist?
and then what would their nextstep be?
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Yeah, well, first of all, I would tell them to be
empowered and encouraged thatyou get to choose.
So there are therapists outthere that that aren't really
doing their own work, if thatmakes sense, like they're not
doing their own therapy.
So really find somebody thatyou trust and you like.
Don't just call and say, oh,you take my insurance and go to
somebody just because they takeyour insurance And then you're
(22:47):
with somebody that you reallydon't connect with and you
really don't feel very connectedwith.
Find somebody who you like.
Okay, that's one thing that Iwould say is that just to be
really empowered, that if youmeet with somebody and it's not
a good fit, it's okay to stopgoing, but don't give up.
The way to start is you couldcall your insurance company like
, hey, who's in my network?
(23:08):
That's one way if you want touse insurance.
Or you can literally justGoogle Christian counselors in
my area, family therapists in myarea.
You can just Google it andsearch.
But the next piece of it isreally making sure that you feel
connected with them.
I even will do like we'll dohalf an hour consults with
(23:28):
people.
It's not therapy, but it's ourway to be able to say like,
here's what I'm like.
This is my style.
These are some of the thingsthat I do.
What is it that you're lookingfor?
And you can find out.
If it's a fit, maybe talk tothem on the phone and ask them
some questions.
I would ask them, like do youdo your own therapy?
Like, ask them questions.
Don't be afraid to find outwhere they're at, because if
(23:53):
their answer is well, why isthat important to you?
Because I'm taught these things.
I'm taught these things to haveit be about.
It's about the client, it's notabout me.
But what I have learned throughthis is this is a relational
interaction, and so if you don'tfeel like you trust me and you
feel safe with me, this isn'tgoing to go anywhere, because
(24:14):
Jesus is relational.
He wants us to know each otherand to know him, and so that
goes with this person thatyou're going to go tell all your
secrets to.
So I'm going to tell you askthem the questions, and if they
get weird about it, then they'reprobably not for you.
So, and you know, obviously, behonoring and be respectful.
Don't start asking themquestions that are personal or
(24:36):
not.
And then schedule theappointment and make it happen
Like a lot of times people willlike, oh, push it off, and then
they don't have it.
And then like make a commitmentfor at least like four to six
months and go go regularly,because it takes time to start
to feel safe, to start talkingabout things and make a
commitment.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
I would say that is so true because in the moment
when you have that emotionalmoment of, okay, i'm doing this,
i'm ready, i'm committing, it'sso easy, let's book it up,
whatever.
But then one 30 shows up andit's like I don't know that I
want to.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
I don't want to walk through that door.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
It's time.
So, yeah, make that commitment,but you owe it to yourself, and
I agree with just everythingyou said.
From my standpoint, i wasblessed that the very first one
I found was just amazing in myconnection, just felt great And
she prayed with us and just allour beliefs lined up from the
beginning, and so I wouldencourage, if you're a believer
(25:35):
as well, find Godly Christiancounseling So important for you.
But, thank you, heidi.
How can people find you if theywant to find out more about
your podcast or find out aboutyour book or any of that?
How can they connect with you?
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Sure, yeah, so my website is actually just my name
.
It's Heidi Mortensencom.
He I D I M O R T E N S O N dotcom.
And then my podcast is calledStrong Tower Mental Health, so
you can either find that throughcharisma or just you can just
search it in Apple podcasts orSpotify, wherever you can find
(26:14):
it.
I'm also on YouTube andInstagram and TikTok.
I started TikTok last summer,which has really been really fun
, and then the book you can findon Amazon as well as my website
, so it's called the BraveEncourager.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Well, this has been so fun, heidi, and we will have
to have you back.
I love for our podcast.
It's about hope mainly, but Ilove we talk about marriage, we
talk about parenting, and so Isee there's so much more that we
could actually dive in with you, but for the second time we
will bring you back in anothertime, but thank you for joining
us And we definitely love tohave you back.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Thank you so much for having me.
It's been an honor.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Well, thanks again And we will definitely connect
soon.
I hope you enjoyed that as muchas I did, heidi, that was
amazing.
That was amazing.
Thank you for sharing yourheart.
Again, go check out her book,check out her podcast.
You can learn more from herwebsite that she mentioned
before Heidi Mortensen dot com.
Again, if this is your firsttime here and this has been a
(27:14):
blessing to you I pray that youwill share this episode with a
friend who's who's in need tohear this episode, hear this
podcast, so please share thatwith them.
Also, if you haven't got thebook yet, when Words Don't Come
Easy, i talk about how therapyhelped my life and how it
changed my life.
So you can get that atAndyHowardcom and find out so
(27:36):
much more about my journey withtherapy.
But all that more.
At AndyHowardcom you can findout where I'm going to be
speaking.
I will read it for you onAudible.
It's even available on Kindle.
Thanks again for joining us.
You guys Can't wait to see youagain soon.
God bless.
Thanks so much for tuning in.
If this episode helped you inany way, it would mean the world
(28:00):
to me If you would leave areview and share it with
somebody else.
Thanks so much, i'll catch younext time.
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