Cost, Culture, and Community: Daniel Lobato's Experience in Vigo, Spain

Episode Transcript
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(01:13):
Welcome to the Where Do Gays Retire?
Podcast where we help you inthe LGBTQ community find a safe and
affordable retirement place.
Join Mark Goldstein as heinterviews others who live in gay
friendly places around the globe.
Learn about the climate, costof living, health care, crime and
safety and more.

(01:33):
Now here's your host, Mark Goldstein.
Have you ever wondered whatit's like to retire in Vigo, Spain?
Today's guest is Daniel LouisLoboto, a 62 year old originally
from Denver, Colorado.

(01:54):
After coming out later inlife, having previously been married
and raising children, Danielset out to redefine home and community.
He eventually found both inBoston, where his chosen family blossomed
and supported his journey.
Though not yet retired, Danielis currently living in Spain under

(02:15):
a digital nomad visa and plansto transition to a non lucrative
visa once retirementofficially begins.
Why Spain?
For Daniel, the answer is simple.
Economics, culture and connection.
With a retirement income thatstretches further than it would in
Boston, a deep appreciationfor Spanish life, an ancest roots

(02:38):
in Galicia, Daniel isembracing a new chapter abroad with
purpose and pride.
Welcome to the podcast, Daniel.
Thank you so much for comingand let's, let's hear your story.
So you say economics, cultureand connection.
Can you elaborate on that alittle bit more?

(03:01):
Yeah, economics.
I realized upon visits toSpain and discovering the Spanish
culture that number one, theprices here are much lower for many
aspects of life.
Not everything.
But the overall cost of livinghere, I've noticed, is much more
affordable than many otherplaces to consider retiring, culture

(03:23):
wise.
My, my family has Spanishheritage from way back when.
You know, immediategrandparents and great grandparents
were all born in the United States.
But there is this ancestral link.
Their first language has been Spanish.
I grew up listening to Spanishbeing spoken in the home, familiar
with many of the culturalaspects as well.

(03:43):
So it just led to, okay, Iknow the culture, I know the finances
are good.
Let's explore some more.
And the community here hasbeen wonderful.
Great.
Okay, let's dive in.
Let's talk about climate and geography.
Where exactly is Vigo?
I'm a lot of our listeners andYouTube members have not heard of

(04:08):
Vigo, Spain.
So you always hear of theMadrid, the Malaga, the Valencia.
But Vigo, where is Vigo located?
So Vigo is actually in thenorthwest corner of Spain, pretty
much opposite from Barcelona.
Barcelona is in the southeastcorner of Spain and Spain is in the

(04:30):
square geography anyway.
But northern, northernnorthwestern shore of Spain on the
Atlantic coast.
It is not on the Mediterranean coast.
Vigo is the largest city in Pontevedra.
Pontevedra is one of theprovinces in Galicia.
Galicia is one of the majorgeographical areas in Spain.

(04:52):
And Vigo is a good sized city.
It's about 300,000 people inthe city itself, and then the metropolitan
area is about half a million.
So it is a good sized port city.
So, okay, so it's northwest,so it's a little chilly, correct?
Yep.
It's not as warm as theMediterranean, and that was one of

(05:15):
the draws.
The summers here are very mild.
Typically the hightemperatures are in the 70s.
They do get into the 80s andvery rarely into the 90s.
The evenings are cool.
The winters here are not asharsh as when where I came from in
Boston.
Boston, you still get the verycold winters and snow.

(05:36):
And here in the wintertime itrarely drops below freezing, if at
all.
Normally the temperaturesduring the day are in the 40s and
in the nighttime it gets intothe high 30s and low 40s, typically.
And the only other downside tothe winter here is lots and lots
of rain.

(05:56):
So I picture it very lush and green.
Yes, it is its own littleIrish corner of Spain.
There is a lot of Irishculture here, Gaelic culture.
In fact, the soccer team fromVigo is called the Celts because
of the interlace of culturewith the northern neighbors, so to
speak.
We're also located about 20miles north of the Portuguese border.

(06:21):
And we're about 100 milesnorth of Porto, one of the major
cities in northern Portugal.
That's what I was just goingto ask as well.
So you can very well do a daytrip to Portugal.
To Porto.
Yes, a day trip to Porto.
There there is train serviceand bus service.
It's, you know, a couple hoursof travel time.

(06:42):
It is not the high speed train yet.
I noticed in today's paper,yes, they still read a lot of newspapers
here, but in today's paper,the major article was about proposal
for high speed train servicebetween Vigo and Porto.
That'd be great.
That would be great.
Okay, so what would you saythe average temperature in the summer

(07:02):
is?
We know the winter doesn't getas down to freezing.
Maybe it does get down tofreezing, but nothing really incredibly
lower than that.
But how about the summers?
So the average temperature inJuly and August for high is usually
the high 70s.
That's not to say that wewon't experience a day in the 80s,

(07:24):
but the extreme heat of theMediterranean that they see in, you
know, Valencia, Barcelona,Malaga, Seville, you know, the 105
degrees during the day and,you know, 85 degrees at night, much
more temperate here, much moreeasy to handle in the summertime
without need.
Without the need for air conditioning.
And that's the other thing Inoticed here, is I have not seen

(07:46):
any air conditioners in any ofthe housing units or the apartment
units that I've seen here.
So do you have airconditioning yourself?
Nope.
No.
You're winging it without it.
Brave man.
Well, if you don't need it.
Yeah.
As long as you have heat inthe winter.

(08:08):
Yeah.
And just about every buildinghas some form of heat.
So that, that's been the nice part.
But.
And the heating that was, youknow, that leads right into the economics,
that the cost to heat theapartment, my.
My bills were significantlylower than when I was living in Boston.
Okay.
So that segues us into thecost of living.
So what is the general cost ofliving in Vigo compared to other

(08:32):
parts of Spain or even the us?
I know.
You know, I'm sure it's a bigdifference from Boston.
Boston is not the cheapestplace, that's true.
But so for within Spain, Vigoand the whole area of Galicia is
probably one of the lowerpriced areas.
The prices have been going up.
You know, one of the things Isee in the economic section of the

(08:53):
newspapers is how rent priceshave gone up steadily over the years.
In fact, this morning in thetelevision news, they were saying
in the last 10 years, housingprices have gone up 35%, which to
me seems small compared towhat the price increases I've seen
in the U.S.
so, you know, apartments hereare much more affordable.

(09:14):
You know, I have pretty muchan equivalent apartment here in Vigo
as to what I had in Boston.
And I'm paying roughly a thirdof what I was paying in the Boston
suburban area.
With regard to the rest ofSpain, though, Barcelona, the big
cities, Barcelona, Madrid,Seville, Valencia, you know, those
are the much more expensiveareas along the Costa del Sol and

(09:35):
the Costa Blanca on the Mediterranean.
You know, though, if you're onthe beach there, of course you're
gonna be paying more.
Same for the islands.
Whether you're on Gran Canariaor Mallorca or Menorca, you know,
the islands.
You'll be paying a little bitmore inland, though.
It's much more affordable.
I follow another blog where,you know, this couple from America

(09:56):
settled inland in Asturias,which is between here and France.
And they settled in becausetheir rent was outrageously cheap
compared to what they were.
They're paying like 300amonthfor a house.
Wow.
€300Amonth.
Not dollars, but €300amonth,which really is, you know, considering
location and cost of living.

(10:17):
For food and all the other services.
You know, that's actuallyquite reasonable, even if they are
in a somewhat more rural area.
So you're renting right now, Right.
How many bedrooms do you havein Beth?
So I have a two bedroom, twobathroom apartment.
It's 110 square meters, whichI think translates to about a thousand

(10:41):
to twelve hundred square feet.
I don't know the exact conversion.
My apartment in Boston was twobedroom, two bath.
That wasn't even in Boston.
It was in Quincy, which isadjoining Boston, just to the south
of Boston.
And that one was almost 3,000amonth.
Wow.
So here I'm paying just alittle over €1100amonth, which is

(11:03):
almost 1200amonth.
Wow, that's a great difference.
For that space.
Yeah.
For a similar space.
Yeah.
And is it in a elevatedbuilding or a walk up?
No, this is in an elevated building.
Many of the apartmentsavailable in Vigo are in newer buildings
that have elevators.

(11:24):
You know, they have centralservices, central heating.
I for instance, I have highspeed Internet.
It's fiber optic, you know, sothat's, that makes it nice.
There are a lot of historicalbuildings here.
Vigo is a historic city and wecan get into that later.
But you know, the, the morelegacy architecture here is also
being upgraded.
So they're preserving thefacades and preserving the structures

(11:47):
themselves and that's part oftheir historical preservation here.
But they're also upgradingplumbing and electrical and communications
with, you know, built in fiberoptic and you know, making walls
so that way you can have awireless router without interference,
that kind of thing.
That's great.
That is great.
How about utility prices?

(12:08):
Gas and electric?
Do you use, do they use gas?
Yeah, I get gas for theheating and so I don't have gas piped
into the, into my specific unit.
In other words, I don't have agas stove or stove.
Water heating is provided bythe building.
But I have noticed that myutility bills are probably less than

(12:29):
half of what I was paying inBoston, if not less than that there.
The electricity here is on ademand use, so there are more expensive
hours to use, high electrical demand.
So, you know, once again it'sencouraging you to use your dishwasher
and washing machine and youknow, any other high level electrical
appliances they'd rather haveyou, you run them at night during

(12:50):
the off peak hours.
I know many cities in the USdo have that, that you know, cost
structure, but I noted thathere as well.
But even with that kind ofcost structure and learning along
the way over the last coupleof months.
My, I've noticed my bill isfor water, sewage and electricity.
The utilities has been much lower.

(13:10):
Same for the Internet.
The service here is there.
You know, Spain has been veryclear as a federal government to
encourage municipalities tomake sure that, you know, people
are connected and have thecurrent kind of Internet services.
So, you know, even my Internetservice that comes with, you know,
I got the package, I reallydidn't, you know, need it, but I

(13:32):
got the full package atprobably a third or fourth of what
I would pay in the United States.
Give us an example.
What are you paying in Spainfor Internet service?
So I have a cell phone lineInternet, which is, I think I'm at
850 megabytes per second.
I didn't get the one gigbecause I didn't need it.
I have television service andthat cable includes all the premium

(13:56):
channels, you know, Max andwell, you name it, I.
You can get the prime videosubscription and Netflix.
It also has every sports.
They're big on their footballhere, so La Liga and the EUFA football,
also to basketball.
So everything Kit and caboodlestarting package was €45amonth, which.

(14:17):
Oh my God.
For everything.
For everything.
Oh, that's incredible.
Wow, that is really incredible.
How about the cost of groceries?
Do you realize any savings.
That'S another area where I'vebeen just amazed.
You know, I being a personwithout a car in Boston, I didn't

(14:40):
have a car.
You know, public transportworked in Boston and it was to walk
to and from the marketcarrying a couple bags.
And here, once again, thingsare significantly less expensive.
But I think, you know, overallwhat I'm seeing is the cost of living
here is lower than what I sawin the United States, but also the
wages are significantly lower.

(15:00):
I think that's, you know,that's the balance that has happened
here is for me coming from theUnited States, I see everything having
a significantly lower price point.
But the wages that I know ofhere, in looking at, you know, what
I would be making in myprofession, I would not be making
the money I make when I workin the.
US So the locals might thinkotherwise and say, oh, it's so expensive

(15:25):
here.
And the expats are saying, no,it's not.
It's cheap.
Actually.
I know a student who there'sstill, there's a lot of meetup groups.
So, you know, it's a good wayto meet people here.
And there's one young lady,she, you know, she finished school
and wanted to stay in Spainand she's been traveling and you
know, she gets, you know, anapartment room for rent here and
there.

(15:45):
And you know, to her it's astruggle to pay €300amonth because,
you know, getting work andmaintaining enough work to be able
to afford your rent.
And then, you know, everythingelse, you know, go to these mixers
and, you know, even going outis a lot cheaper.
You know, you can go out andget a beer for probably a draft beer
or even a bottle of beer forunder €3.

(16:07):
But with that, you know, 99 ofthe bars here, in cafeterias, here
in the cafes, they serve you abeer and you get a little snack with
it.
Whether it's a little piece ofthe tortilla, the egg and potato
omelette.
You might get a slice of breadwith sausage.
You might get some slicedcheese in a bowl of olives.
You get a snack, mine here,cheap, you can get it.
You can get a goblet of wine.

(16:28):
Here, you're lucky if you geta pretzel.
350 and yeah.
And here, you know, with thewine, you get another snack.
If you order coffee here, it'soutrageously inexpensive.
But once again, everybody,it's constantly, you know, for under
$2, you can get, you know, anespresso quarto.
I drink Cafe Americano becauseit's closest to drip coffee from

(16:48):
home.
But you know, you order acoffee and you get a little bit of
pastry, you get, you know, alittle piece of coffee cake, you
get a little piece of spongecake, you might get a small croissant,
you get something with it.
And you know, the thing I havenoticed is American style junk food
is probably more expensive.
You order a Coke, you get alittle itty bitty six ounce can.

(17:12):
You're paying €353.50 forthat, which is almost four bucks.
Right?
You know, and if you wantpotato chips American style, a lot
of places will have those asthe salty snack.
But if you want like Americanstyle food, it's, it costs you more.
It really does.
Yeah.
And it's crappier food for you.

(17:33):
Yeah, the healthy food, like,you know, you can get wonderful,
these wonderful snacks.
And you know, they're homemade.
You know, you might get alittle itty bitty bowl, a little
crock of lentils or garbanzoswith pork.
It's like, yeah, these are.
And it's like.
And they're all local dishes.
It's, it's nice.
You get a nice little healthy dish.
That's great.
And also wine, of course, winein Spain is really cheap, like you

(17:58):
can probably get a glass ofwine for less than you could water.
In many cases.
Yes.
You know, once again, all therestaurants here by law have to be
able to provide you with tap water.
They won't offer it, but ifyou request a water and you know,
they'll bring you a bottle ofwater and charge you gladly, €3 for

(18:19):
that small bottle of water,they typically don't serve things
with ice.
They will ask you if you wantit cold.
And ice, typically for a softdrink, they will serve it with ice
as well.
But you know, ice is anotherthing that you know is uniquely American
and saints were like the freerefills on, on, on soft drinks.
You don't see that here.
Yeah, yeah.
And do you, you can drink thetap water, correct?

(18:43):
Oh yeah, the tap water.
Not like Mexico.
No.
In fact, EU regulationsrequire all the tap water to be drinkable
and safe for human consumption.
So I noticed a lot of peoplestill buy bottled water.
A lot of people use like aBrita filter at home.
My, my unit owner, you know,left a Brita water filter.

(19:04):
I use it because it.
I don't know if I want to.
The water here, it can be hardat times.
It does have that character to it.
But you know, at the same timeI haven't found anything objectionable
in the water here other than,you know, sometimes it comes out
of the tap warmer that I'mused to as well.
Well, if you're two inPhoenix, our cold water is hot.
So.

(19:26):
All right, so okay, so cost ofliving, it's mighty fine.
I found the same with healthcare too.
You know, a visa holder and avisa resident, I'm obligated to carry
to, to carry a private health insurance.

(19:46):
I'm not.
You have to be here X numberof years before you can get on there
on their social, socializedmedicine system.
So the full coverage and therequirement for the visa holders,
whether it's an NLV or dnv,whatever kind of visa it is, no copay,
no deductible, full coveragefor everything.
And I'm literally paying afifth of what I was paying for Mass

(20:13):
Health, the American Care Act.
Give us an example.
What are you paying forprivate health care.
And this includes dental coverage.
So I'm paying €138amonth.
And in Massachusetts it wasover 700.
Incredible.

(20:33):
Incredible.
That's.
And you get everything.
So even the private.
Okay, so with private, theygive you, if you choose an English
speaking doctor.
If you can find one.
And unfortunately in Vigothere are not.
It's hard to come many Englishspeaking doctors, but you know, they're

(20:54):
very helpful.
And Google, Google Translateon your phone and the doctor's office
is really helpful.
Are you fluent in Spanish?
I'm not fluent.
I'm conversant, I'mcomfortable with it.
My vocabulary is limitedbecause I hadn't spoken Spanish on
a regular basis in over 10years, so.
And then some of the localexpressions here are different than

(21:17):
what they are in the US as well.
So there's a little bit youseem like you can get by.
Are you going to be studyingmore or taking Spanish?
Actually, it's more throughsocial groups here.
There, there are Spanishspeaking learning groups.
There's people in Spain thatwant to learn English.
So, you know, you can join asocial group where the Spaniards
want to practice their Englishand the expats want to practice their

(21:40):
Spanish.
So, you know, it's a nicetrade, a nice social interaction.
Yeah, absolutely.
It's definitely.
Yeah.
But I would say the only thingthat with the medical care is one
thing that is not covered is prescriptions.
Okay, so I understand that.
And how affordable, becauseI'm going to say how affordable are

(22:03):
prescription meds for.
Generics, I would sayextremely affordable.
For instance, my high bloodpressure medication that, you know,
I was paying, you know, a $10copay of CVS in the Boston area for
that same generic prescription.
Here I'm paying €2.50.
Crazy.
For the branded ones, you'repaying a little bit more, but you're

(22:25):
not paying the exorbitant 300,400, $500 a month for that.
For instance, the brandedprescription that I'm on right now,
instead of the $350 a monththat I would have paid without insurance
in Boston, it cost me €52,which, you know, wasn't horrible.

(22:46):
It was higher than I was surprised.
But at the same time, youknow, it's good to know they do.
And I'm thinking it's becausethe state here, the government actually
does the price setting andnegotiations with the providers,
with the pharmaceuticalcompanies themselves.
I would think so.
So, okay.

(23:07):
I believe also after a yearyou can get onto the public system
if you need, if you wanted to.
Yeah, I have not looked into that.
And part of that is I knowthat there's one.
One of the downsides of livingin Spain is the bureaucracy.

(23:28):
So unless you find aprofessional to help you, either
a lawyer or some sort of agentthat will shepherd you through, and
then you have to pay thisperson, the bureaucracy, the wheels
turn very slowly.
And you know, if you have Oneform filled out incorrectly.
They, you know, they send you back.

(23:49):
Yeah, they send you back andthen you do that form and you bring
that form that they asked forand they're like, oh, no, we need
this form.
All right, why didn't you tellme the first time?
Yep, that sort of stuff,that's bureaucracy.
So how about your waiting time?
Since you're on the publicsystem, you shouldn't have that much

(24:09):
of a wait.
So if you made an appointmentfor a GP or a specialist, how long
do you think you would waitfor an appointment?
Well, I needed, I recentlyneeded some prescriptions refilled.
So I called the doctor'soffice and I got in that evening
and I think they, they do thatwith private health insurers because
there's a payment involved.

(24:30):
Whereas.
Yes, you know, if it's throughthe public system, the payment probably
takes longer to process andthere's more bureaucracy associated
with that.
People too.
You know, I think on thepublic system.
But the other thing I havelearned is on the public system is
if you're near a hospital,hospitals will take walk ins, you
know, a lot like urgent care,not necessarily an emergency department,

(24:51):
but they will take walk ins onas, you know, on an as available
basis.
And so, you know, that's onething I've learned also is, you know,
if I'm not able to get a holdof a doctor or get a hold of a specialist,
I can go to a hospital and,you know, just get in line and wait
if I needed to.
And how close are you to thenearest hospital?

(25:13):
Probably a 10 minute walk.
That's great.
That's great.
Okay.
Another segue intotransportation and walkability.
So usually what I've beenhearing from different cities in
Spain, everything is prettymuch walkable.

(25:35):
And they have a superbtransportation system, mostly rail
system, either high speed railor local rail.
First of all, is VGO walkable?
Can you easily access everydayessentials like the market, the pharmacy,
bakery, bank without a car?

(25:59):
Yes.
And I'll preface thewalkability factor based on the culture
that I see here after havingspent time in Barcelona and in Madrid
and in many other cities whilehunting for a city to settle in.
Part of the culture here isvery Mediterranean across the country,
and it's very much like Italyat the end of the workday.

(26:20):
In Italy they call it the Passaggio.
In Spain it's the Paseo andit's your stroll.
You go out, you stretch yourlegs, it's late in the afternoon,
it's cooling down, sun issetting, you get to know Your neighbors,
you stop and have a beer or awine at a cafe or a cafeteria or

(26:41):
a bar, you're out and aboutbefore dinner.
And it's universal.
I mean, old people, youngpeople, the teenagers gather, you
know, the children are thereplaying, you know, soccer with the
ball on the street, itbecomes, but it's a very cultural
aspect where the cities arewalkable because everybody's out
walking.

(27:01):
And so, you know, thewalkability of the city, the sidewalks
tend to be wider.
If you're in a neighborhoodwhere there's a narrow sidewalk,
it's because everybody'sheaded to another area to do their
paseo.
The challenge with walking inVigo, I would say, is the hills.
Vigo has San Francisco stylehills in some areas, but Vigo has

(27:23):
some technology that they'veinvested and they understand the
need for walkability in the city.
And so there's outdoorescalators with, you know, sunshades
and wind covers that.
These escalators operate everyday of the year, winter and summer.
So if you need to go up thestreet and it's a very steep climb

(27:44):
and you don't want to take thestairs or the steep hill, you can
take an escalator.
Now, not every hill has this,but the ones where people move a
lot, and then also on GranVia, which I think translates more
as Broadway, where it's amajor business street and, you know,
fashion area and all that,that hill is not as steep as stairs,
but they have the movingwalkways like in the airports, going

(28:05):
uphill there.
So once again, they maintainthat, that walkability factor for
cultural reasons.
And then, you know, onceagain, it's nice to be able to get
out and walk and everything is accessible.
So within.
I live in the center of thecity, but I've noticed in the neighborhoods
here, within two blocks of myapartment, there's no fewer than

(28:27):
10 cafe bar combinations thatserve food, drinks, coffee in the
morning, pastries.
There's at least two bakeriesnow, three, now that I think about
it, three bakeries.
There's two butcher shops,there's one fish stop, there's two
florists, there's foursupermarkets and three banks and

(28:51):
several ATMs available as well.
So.
And I'm also between the two,two major railway stations.
So, you know, I can walk toeither railway station and hop on
a train and get to citieslinking me to Madrid.
And there is actually a highspeed train that leaves one of the
stations here and gets toMadrid in about four hours.

(29:13):
And the mayor here hasapproached the railway operator to
Say we need that to be lessthan four hours.
Can you not make six stopsalong the way?
Can you put an express traininto Vigo?
So it's not four, four hoursbecause, you know, it's two hours
to the southern coast fromMadrid and you know, it seems to
be a spoke system where manytrains or all trains converge onto

(29:34):
Madrid.
So if I wanted to go toBarcelona, I first take a train to
Madrid and then transfer to Barcelona.
Same for Valencia, Seville,any of the other cities.
So even Bilbao, it would bemuch faster for me to take the four
hour train into Madrid andthen take a four hour train out to
Bilbao.
So it depends on all day travel.
But it's also outrageously inexpensive.

(29:56):
I compared to Amtrak andflying, the railways here are very
affordable and very reliable.
Yeah, that sounds wonderful.
I mean, I can't get over the escalators.
I was going to say, do theyhave some sort of trolley system?
But maybe they do.
I don't know.

(30:18):
No trolleys and no subway inVigo, even as big of a city as it
is.
But being a port city, they dohave a lot of buses.
And I'm still learning the bussystem to get around to various areas
of the city.
I, you know, it's like most ofthem are helpful and the stops all
have QR codes that will tellyou when the next bus coming and
where it's going.
So yeah, it's a very goodcomprehensive bus system.

(30:40):
Once again, it's very inexpensive.
Under €2 for a bus ride.
And then if you get a residentcard, it becomes like 55 cents.
So yeah, seniors, I thinkseniors go for free on a lot of stuff.
Yeah, so.
And I have to apply for mysenior card.

(31:01):
Once I get like my residencypermit, I can then apply because
senior status here is above 60years old.
So same for the railway system.
I get a 15 discount for beingover 60 to take the high speed train
anywhere in Spain.
Wow.
Do they have local marketsalso where you can buy food, fresh
vegetables and fresh fruits?

(31:24):
Yeah, also in theneighborhood, you know, in addition
to all the other, you know,nice facilities, there's three fruit
stands, there are fruit andvegetable markets.
They have all the local fruitsand vegetables and they're seasonal.
I mean, they rarely.
Do you see anything that, Imean I, Anything that I've noticed
out of season is going to havea price premium.
But I've noticed that at thesupermarkets, at the four supermarkets
that are in within very closewalking distance here, there's also

(31:47):
a couple of restaurants thatspecialize in pre prepared food.
So you know, a take home mealthat you know, come bring home and
put in your oven and you know,it's all local cuisine.
So you know, the interesting,you know, options here as, as well
as regular restaurants, butyou also have some of these options
of the local food and thelocally prepared food.

(32:10):
So do you find yourself goingout to markets and making purchases?
Because in Spain, you know,everything is a little bit smaller.
Refrigerators are smaller.
So do you buy a smallerquantity of food for your home to
prepare or on the other hand,you could probably go out to eat

(32:33):
for cheaper.
It's hard to not go out to eat.
It really is because going outto eat here it is like, you know,
even like at the end of theday when they tend to have their
smaller meal, you know, if Ihave a glass of wine and the little
tapasnack, to me that's enough.
But as far as going to themarket in the smaller storage areas,

(32:54):
that kind of stuff.
Yeah, they don't have, Ihaven't seen anything like a Costco
here.
Now their markets are big.
The, they have three of themarkets in this neighborhood.
They have a huge footprint andthey're great big supermarkets.
But you don't see the 32 packof paper towels.
And I, what I do notice ispeople walk to the market, if not

(33:15):
every day, every other day,every third day.
And that's a hard habit for meto break.
I try to do shopping once a week.
It's like, no, I'm just goingto go to the market every other day.
Once again, because you haveto carry pressure anyway.
And you have to carry it home.
Yeah, I have to carry it home.
And you know, and the nicepart is at the supermarkets I can
get everything I want in one spot.
They have wine, beer, food,you know, meat, fish, whatever you

(33:40):
can.
But it's like, nope, I'm not,I can't buy everything all at once
there because then you have tocarry it.
I also like going to thelittle fruit stands and vegetable
stands at their, you know,their storefronts.
But you know, once again yousee the stock rotate much more frequently.
And there's some, you know,odd things like in the produce department
at the supermarket, you don'ttake your produce, put it in a bag
and take it to the check stand.

(34:01):
You actually there's a personthere that, that will put it on the
scale, prepare a tag and thentag it.
And then if you have three orfour different things, like if I
have lettuce, tomato and onionand you know, and a grapefruit they'll
weigh them all individuallyand then they'll put them all into
one produce bag and then putone label and it gets scanned once.
But then when my receipt getsit has everything itemized individually.

(34:24):
But you know, they have thatset up where they have an attendant
in the produce department dothat for you.
That's pretty cool.
That's really cool.
Wow.
Okay, let's see.
So what it reminds me of Spainand different cities also in Spain

(34:47):
remind me of the old days inwhen I lived in New York.
So when we had, and I'm surein Boston too, in the 60s and 70s,
you had specialty stores.
So you had a butcher, you hada bakery, you had a shoemaker on
cobbler.
You know, you had all of theselittle mom and pop shops.

(35:10):
And it seems like Vigo alsohas those type of shops where what
we don't really see muchanymore in the US because everything
is supermarket and everythingcould be pretty much done either
at a supermarket or a store.
So the butchers are prettymuch gone and you have to get your

(35:34):
meats and poultry in a supermarket.
So it's different.
Vigo, correct?
Yes.
And like at the supermarket,you know, at when you go to the meat
counter, you know, they havethe packages of hamburger and packages
of, you know, roast andsteaks, whatever.
But most people, because it'sa very social society, most people

(35:56):
will sit, you know, in lineand wait and talk to the butcher
and have, you know, a roastcat or meat ground and you know,
they chat, they catch up, theyfind out what's fresh, they find
out what's on sale and there'sa lot of chit chat.
Same at the, what I'm going tocall the deli counter where they
have all the dried meats andsausages and cheeses and you know,
they have all the pre preparedstuff and pre wrapped stuff, but

(36:18):
people wait in line and do the chatting.
And I think that's why thesmall mom and pop stores still survive
because people go to thebutcher and they chat with the butcher
and find out what's, you know,the freshest that day.
The fishermen once again,because this is a port city, you
know, the fish is literallycoming right up boat and then the
vegetable stands as well.
So you know, you get fruitsand vegetables and you know, people

(36:39):
are chatting with and just,you know, doing that daily interaction
almost.
And the bakery, fresh baker,baked goods.
Oh my God.
Bakeries here are amazing.
And you know, that's one thingthat, you know, you see on Sundays.
Bakeries are one of the fewstores that are open and people are
lined up to get their loavesof bread.
And it's not the sliced wonderbread kind of bread.

(37:01):
It's like it's big longbackups or the round country style
loaves.
And then they always have, youknow, the dessert pastries, that
kind of stuff as well.
But you know, those smallshops are do make a difference.
There's three shoe repairshops in the area.
It's amazing to see thatthey're still a business.
And once again, I think it'sjust because people like that interaction.
And plus, you're not loadingup a trunk of a car and taking it

(37:24):
and unloading it and then, youknow, taking it into your house.
You're walking with a coupleof bags everywhere you go and every
day that you go out, you'repicking up something.
I've also learned keep my, mynylon bag in my pocket because if
I stop at a store it's like,oh, I can pick this up.
Because otherwise they chargeyou for a bag everywhere you go.
Right.

(37:44):
That's so funny.
Here in the US go to a shoestore or shoemaker, what they used
to call it here, if you had ahole in your sole or your heel wore
down, you'd go to theshoemaker and they would put new
soles and new heels on your shoes.
No more.
Now you throw out the shoesand you get a new pair usually.

(38:08):
So.
And I'm sure it's back.
It's different than, than in Vigo.
Well, I think there's aneconomic driver there too.
Because the other thing Ihaven't noticed here is clothes and
shoes are relatively moreexpensive than the discount that
are available in the US not tosay that it's not totally out available.

(38:28):
Like, you know, there'sPrimark here.
Primark is probably theclosest thing to a large discount
retailer here.
And but you know, once again,those are the very inexpensive, high
volume marketed clothes thatthey get from Asia, from China and
Thailand, India.

(38:49):
You go to the more traditionaldepartment store which in Spain is
called El Corte Ingles.
It's pretty much the Macy's of Spain.
You know, you're going to paya lot more significant amount more
for everything there.
But you know, once again, ifyou're spending $150 or €150 on a
pair of shoes, you're going totake care of those shoes and you're.

(39:11):
If something happens to their shoes.
Yeah, you're going to takethem to a local shoe shop because
they're everywhere here andthey're going to help you maintain
and keep them in good shape.
Good to know.
Good to know.
Okay, let's get into the LGBTQ community.
Or do we even have one in Vigo?
I don't know.
Vigo would support that.

(39:32):
And again, it's very openminded in all of Spain.
So tell us a little bit aboutthe community.
Have you met any other LGBTQ people?
Yes, I have.
And it's hard finding anorganized community here because
once again, everything seemsso thoroughly integrated.

(39:55):
You know, there's no specificgay bar.
There is a community groupthat is a social group.
They do social activism andsocial activities.
It's was the, one of theoriginal, like, lesbian organizations
in Vigo.
And you know, they have, youknow, this legacy of, you know, being

(40:16):
a part of the community, but,you know, that's that kind of activism
is they maintain visibility.
But I think it's more for thelegacy than for the need because
if there's anything that everhappens from a homophobia kind of
perspective or an anti gay oran anti LGBTQ plus perspective, there's

(40:40):
a lot.
There's a spotlight that's puton that.
For instance, one of theMediterranean coast, what do you
call it, resort cities, TorreMolinos, which is, you know, it's
a resort city on the beach.
And there was a, and it's avery gay friendly city.
But there was an incident thispast weekend where there were homophobic

(41:00):
slurs that were hurled veryloudly and publicly at a couple in
Toro Molinas.
And, you know, the policeinstantly took action.
They wanted a statement fromthe people that the flowers were
directed from.
And, and, you know, by puttingthat spotlight on it in the national
news, you know, it makes itvery clear that, you know, this is

(41:20):
a community that, that, youknow, we accept and we don't want
that kind of, you know, hatefilled rhetoric spread in Spain.
And because, you know,something like that happens rarely,
you know, I think Spain hasgotten to the point where, you know,
there, there isn't a huge neednow in Madrid and Barcelona, the
bigger cities, you know, they're.

(41:42):
Madrid has the tweca, thegayborhood, the pink zone, you know,
and that's, you know, that'sreally neat.
I like that.
It reminds me of like, youknow, the gay neighborhoods in many
other big cities.
But you come to an area likeVigo where, you know, I can walk
down one of the areas in OldTown and, you know, they're same
sex couples holding hands.
There's that edge ofcounterculture where you have, you

(42:06):
know, the people that dressdifferently, have their hair different,
done differently.
They have the multiplepiercings, they have the multiple
tattoos, the Q aspect thatwhether they're gay, straight, whatever,
but they're just different.
There doesn't seem to be muchseparation now.
They like to congregate insome of the same places.
There's a couple of music barsthat have live music, and, you know,

(42:27):
they're playing music thatthese particular groups like, but
they're not exclusive.
I can walk into one of thosebars not wearing leather, not wearing
tattoos, not having anypiercings and, you know, wearing,
you know, my 62 year oldattire and, you know, not feel ostracized
or, you know, odd.
Like the oddball that, youknow, hey, I'm not.

(42:49):
I'm not integrated with theway that they're acting or the way
they're dressing or the waythey're presenting themselves.
I haven't encountered thatanywhere at any of the bars or there's
that kind of, you know,gathering or that kind of culture
within an organization or a venue.
Do you know if they have apride festival now?

(43:09):
Vigo doesn't have a pride nowin Galicia or Pontevedra, which is
the individual part of one ofthe three or four provinces.
In Galicia, the pride will betaking place in Acarunia, which is
one of the other larger citieson the northern coast, in Ponte Vedra,
that will be in July.
And once again, it's.

(43:29):
The entire geographic area isinvited to participate.
I'm looking forward to itbecause I want to see how that compares
to, say, the Boston Pride Parade.
When I lived in Boston, I wasa member of the Mass Bears and Cubs
group.
And, you know, ourorganization would, you know, would
be represented in the parade.
And, you know, that was a huge production.

(43:51):
You know, our group, weusually had, you know, fewer than
20 representatives.
We had our bear flags and, youknow, we would march and, you know,
we would enjoy being part ofthe Pride Parade.
But then there were otherorganizations, like, you know, the
big corporations that had, youknow, here's a thousand marchers,
or, you know, here's a dancetroupe and, you know, they're playing
music and dancing, and it'slike, nope.
We were a much smaller organization.
But really, that parade was anamazing event because even though

(44:13):
it was two miles long, therewere probably more than two miles
worth of groups and floats andbands and other forms of entertainment.
Okay, have you made friendswith a group of either LGBTQ expats
or locals or just any type ofgroup of expats?

(44:33):
So for the meeting, a group ofexpats, there's an app on the Android
system called meetup.
And I'd heard about this fromfriends in Boston.
So I ran into somebody hereand they said, well, use meetup here
in Vigo.
I said, it's available here inVigo and there's a lot of meetup
groups here.
Wow.
So one of the things you canselect in this app is, you know,
what kind of groups you wantto connect with.

(44:54):
And, you know, once again,there's an LGBTQ+ moniker.
So I added that.
And what I have found is theone organization that identified
as, you know, here's for the community.
The LGBTQ+ community is theone organization that I spoke about
earlier that was started outas a lesbian organization, but, you
know, they've kind of grown itand they're, you know, just active

(45:14):
in the community.
But many of the other groupsin meetup add the LGBTQ tag and category
to their events because theywant to make sure everybody knows
you're welcome.
So, you know, I'm with acouple of groups that speak, you
know, they're the Englishspeaking groups, and one's an expat
group and they both have those tags.

(45:36):
And so both of those groups.
I've met other people in theLGBTQ community.
It's given me some points ofcontact and some ideas, but, you
know, from a strictly, youknow, how do I meet, you know, somebody
else in my community?
That's probably been the bestway to do it.
Just because there's not that.

(45:59):
That I don't think.
I don't want to say.
There's not a need for exclusivity.
It just doesn't happen here.
It's from an organicperspective there.
You know, I think if I wereout and about and I found somebody
that I wound up, you know,chatting with and, you know, if they
said, are you gay?
Would you like to, you know,you know, go out on a date?
I don't think that would beawkward, you know, not like it would

(46:21):
be in other cultures.
So I.
I just.
That's what I've experienced here.
I'm not saying it's universal,but at the same time, it seems limiting
here in Vigo, in Galicia.
But at the same time, I don'tfeel limited that, you know, I can
find and speak to other peoplein the community.
And also, you know, you talkabout health issues and, you know,

(46:43):
in our community there, youknow, I live through the HIV horrors
of the 80s and 90s, so, youknow, you still want to ask questions
and learn about those kind ofresources that kind of.
Sure awesome.
So you feel perfectly safe asa gay person.

(47:09):
Well, you don't have the labelthat says you're gay, but, you know,
you feel perfectly fine.
I'm perfectly fine no matterwhat time of day or night.
I've become a night owl.
Just because the culture, thetime zone here shifted.
For instance, it is now almost9:30 at night and the sun will not

(47:32):
set for another 15 or 20 minutes.
Wow.
Just because the way the timezone works here so, you know, the
evenings will go later.
The social life here happenslater as well.
You know, dinner time is 8pmor later.
To have dinner at 10pm is nota big deal here.
And on the weekends, you know,the clubbing age, if you're of clubbing

(47:53):
age, you don't go out until midnight.
I mean, I was at.
There is a nightclub in OldTown here.
It's about a 12 minute walkfrom my apartment and it's been around
since the 90s and it has arainbow flag and, you know, it attracts
the LGBTQ community.
But I, you know, every timeI've been in there, it has just as

(48:15):
many, you know, heterosexualcouples as there are same sex couples
and everything in between.
And I've left that venue at3:30 in the morning and walked home
and not had any problem offeeling safe.
The ability to walk around andnot worry about getting shot, you

(48:36):
know, who you may encounteror, you know, is there, am I going
to get mugged?
Is there going to be a pickpocket?
There's not that feeling.
And you know, me being, youknow, this white male and, you know,
I, there's a sense ofprivilege there.
But at the same time, I haveseen, you know, groups of young women
do the same thing, you know,at 1:30 in the morning, headed out
to one of the dancing clubsand, you know, they're there in their

(48:58):
high heels and sequins anddresses and walking to, you know,
through town and you know,even though there's maybe only two
or three of them, they're not concerned.
They're out for, you know,that's what I hear.
And acting very comfortably,not with, you know, watching behind
their back.
Like, you know, I have adaughter who, you know, when, you

(49:19):
know, when she would go to SanFrancisco, it was like, okay, you
have to be on guard.
You have to be, you know,aware of what's around you.
I don't see that here.
Yeah, like when I take,sometimes you have to take the dog
out in the middle of the night.
Sometimes.
You know, I was on a, when Iwas working, not Too long ago I would
take the dog out at 5:00 inthe morning, 5:30 in the morning.

(49:42):
And in the States you can lookover your shoulder, you know, and
see what's going on, ifanybody is following you or something.
Whereas it sounds like in Vigoit's not an issue.
Yeah.
And not to say that there's nocrime, you know, I read in the newspaper
there's, you know, there'sdomestic violence that happens.

(50:03):
There's, you know, and, butthey make sure that it's thoroughly
reported in the newspaper.
You know, there is sexualviolence that does happen.
It doesn't seem to be at avery frequent rate.
Yeah, you.
And you don't hear about murders.
You know, I've seen more otherkinds of violent crime, but you know,
that's not the numbers thatI've seen in a city this size in

(50:24):
the United States, you know, acity of 500,000 metropolitan area,
500,000 in the United States.
You'd probably hear or seesomething a little bit more frequently
if you looked for it, youknow, once again, the newspapers
here.
And that's the other thing isthere's two local newspapers and
two national newspapers.
When you go for your coffee inthe morning, the newspapers right
there, people are reading thedaily paper and the look.

(50:45):
And you're seeing the localand national news every morning.
And people are still on theirphones, scrolling through phones
as well.
But the papers here are as ahard copy is still part of the culture
here.
That's something in the USit's all gone electronic.
Yeah, it's almost gone.
I like newspaper stands andpick up a paper and just touching

(51:07):
the paper, getting the print on.
You kind of miss that.
Okay, very good.
So pretty safe.
Of course, Spain, outlaws, guns.
So there's no gun, gunsallowed except for hunting.
All right, let's get intoarts, culture and leisure.

(51:29):
So have you noticed what thecultural scene might be in Vigo?
Are there any museums,theater, music festivals going on?
That's one of the bonuses thatI realized when I seriously started
considering Vigo as apotential, you know, home and permanent
place to live is the culture here.

(51:51):
There.
There are a couple of large theaters.
One of them is a newer venue.
It's a multi purposeperformance venue.
The second week I was here, Iattended the Ukrainian opera production
of Rigoletto.
So, you know, it had the fullorchestra, the full operatic chorus
and full opera production,full stage and you know, in all its

(52:13):
glory wasn't quite the Met,but at the same time it was a well
done, well performed in Asuitable venue full on opera I have
attended.
You know, there's anotherspace that's multi use as well, but
it's more for plays and musicals.
Phantom of the Opera, theEuropean tour will be stopping here
in July.

(52:34):
There's English.
Is it all in Spanish?
Yes, which was a learning experience.
I actually saw Phantom inPhantom of the Opera in Madrid and
it became a brand newexperience because in Spanish it's
just slightly different.
The songs are still the samesongs, but the intimations and the

(52:58):
feeling can be just a slightbit different because of the Spanish
culture and the way theSpanish language works.
So, you know, that's been fun.
But the culture here, Yes, Imean, and you know, there's, you
know, JLO is going to be herein July.
So you know, we get the bigarena acts as well as, you know,
the high culture of, you know,the opera and orchestra.

(53:18):
There was a recital last nightof, what do you call it, Baroque
art and music in GarciaBarbone Teatro up the street.
So I missed that because I hada doctor's appointment.
My doctor's appointment was at8pm, believe it or not.
Wow.
Oh, wow.
So the doctor's office that Ihad discovered, it was open between
10 and 1 and then between 5and 8.

(53:41):
Eight, the last appointment.
Yeah.
So I mean, but you know, onceagain, culture and museums.
There's at least two artmuseums here that I can think of
off the top of my head.
I know that there's more museums.
There's a history museum as well.
The other thing about Spainthat I've noticed in my multiple

(54:02):
trips here is the public art.
So there are statuescommissioned everywhere.
If there's a new building, ifthere's, you know, a corner lot that's
being redeveloped.
One of the instant things thathappen that goes out that I realize
is there's okay, what kind ofart is going to go up there and you

(54:25):
know, who's going to fund theart, who's going to.
And then who's going to be the artist?
What kind of art is it goingto be?
Is it going to be a mural?
Is it going to be a statue?
Is it going to be a sculptureout of metal, sculpture out of stone?
You know, every park here hasmultiple statues and fountains.
New buildings have, you know,sculptures and art built into them.
As far as visual.

(54:45):
The street here down, youknow, every traffic circle that goes
down the main street in myneighborhood has a artistic element,
whether it's a fountain,whether it's video screens.
There's a metal sculpture atthe end of Mine, there's sculptures
everywhere and art everywherein just about every Spanish city.

(55:05):
It's amazing to see how muchvalue they put on the visual art
as well as all the performing arts.
And Spaniards love a festival.
Tell us, have you seen anyfestivals or.
I'm sure you like, that's a given.
Yeah, the couple of festivals.

(55:26):
I arrived the day after ThreeKings Day, which is their big Christmas
time holiday.
And I thought, okay, thetravel will be done and, you know,
the festivals will be done,I'll be done.
And it's like, nope, nope.
The Alameda, which is a bigparkway with, you know, fountains
and statues and parks andplaygrounds and stuff, was filled
with booths of local artisansselling handmade goods and every

(55:50):
kind of food, every localwine, local beer, local bread, local
cheese, local cured meats,handmade jewelry, hand woven textiles,
all kinds of stuff.
And that lasted until like thesecond weekend in January when they
turned off all the lights forall the Christmas decorations and

(56:12):
said, okay, thank you for awonderful year.
Next year we'll be back.
The other festival that theyhad was called the Reconquista, which
was extremely local.
There's a lot of local festivals.
And this local festival wasabout chasing the French away the
Napoleonic armies back in 1807.
Wow.
And so, you know, once again,the Galician culture, you know, they

(56:33):
had people in traditional dress.
They do like they do inConcord, Massachusetts, with the
pipers and the war reenactments.
And you have people dressed asFrench should soldiers with the fancy
French coats and the big hats.
And you have the Spaniardsdressed that way.
And they do a serious march.
The musicians, they bring outthe bagpipes and the kilts because

(56:56):
northern Spain.
And so the bagpipes and kiltsbeing played, the women's groups,
they sing and do traditionalGalician songs with nothing more
than a tambourine and twoscallop shells that they rub against
each other for.
For rhythm.
And then they sing theselovely traditional songs along with
all the food and, and thebooze once again.

(57:16):
And that festival, even thoughit spanned a week, it started on,
you know, one weekend with asoft opening, and then the next weekend
was the big one.
But all along, every night,the booths were open selling food
and goods.
They had stuff for thechildren, they had a travel treasure
hunt.
They had history stuff for the children.
Lots of hands on things forchildren to do as well as, you know,

(57:39):
things that carried on untilthree in the morning for those who
could carry on till three inthe morning.
They know how to pace themselves.
I mean, there was, you know,the Liquor laws here are just amazing
because you could just seepeople walking around with a glass
of wine or a cup of beereverywhere you went.
And it wasn't just the mainsquare in the city, you know, there's
plazas, you know, within manyareas and you know, in eight or 12

(58:03):
plazas that I walked through,they were all packed with, with people,
revelers enjoying this lovely festival.
And that was mid March.
So, you know, it was, it wasan amazing experience and it was
also a good taste of theculture here because it was very
Galicia centric in what theywere doing.
So, you know, good educationas well as having a lot of fun.

(58:25):
That sounds wonderful.
It really does.
Really sounds like a lot of fun.
Of course, three in themorning, I'm in my fifth dream by
then.
In fact, 10:30, I'm in mysecond dream.
So anyway, that's because I'm old.
Let's get into dining and cuisine.
One of my favorite subjects is eating.
And Spain has a greatreputation of restaurants and cafes

(58:50):
and everything to that sort.
So tell us a little bit aboutthe food scene in Vigorous.
And are there Michelin starrated restaurants there?
What type?
Could we get any type ofinternational cuisine there?
For the most part, yes.
And that's one of the thingsthat I forgot where I read the article,

(59:13):
but it was in more than oncewhere Galicia in Spain, which is
this northwest corner ofSpain, has the highest per capita
percentage of Michelin star restaurants.
So within a 10 minute walk ofmy apartment, there are four Michelin

(59:36):
star restaurants.
Wow.
One of them, it's an olderstar, it says it's a Michelin star
from 2018, but it's still awhite tablecloth restaurant where
you get a good meal.
The most recent one that I,that had been awarded a star, I think
it was back in 2023 and I'mnot sure if they got it again in
2024.
I haven't visited thatrestaurant again.

(59:58):
But once again, the Galiciancuisine, they take advantage of number
one, the amazing seafood herebecause they're on the north shore
of Spain.
Nice, icy cold water.
And they have every, all kindsof shellfish.
They have, you know, lobster,they have crab, they have all, you

(01:00:18):
know, bivalves, the clams, theoysters, mussels.
They have mussel farms in theestuary here.
They actually are known fortheir mussels here that are amazing.
And then in addition to theshellfish, you know, the fin fish,
they have a lot of shark.
There's something that they called.
It's not branzino, it's like hake.
It's, you know, a white fish,a very common.

(01:00:39):
They're big on anchovies andsardines here.
So if you like oily fish,they're good with that here.
The other one is similar tomonkfish in the United States.
Monkfish, which is a great bigugly fish that Bostonians love and
call the poor man's lobster.
Poor man's lobster.
That's a very common fish here.
That and cod.
They do the salted cod heremuch like they do in Portugal.
So a lot of salted cod isavailable year round here.

(01:01:02):
As far as variety, there's twoItalian grocers here and then.
And I think they supply a lotof the rest of the restaurants here
because there's at least threerestaurants that serve strictly Italian
cuisine.
It's not Italian American.
It's not Italian with aSpanish flair.
It is Italian.
You're getting, you know,pasta from.

(01:01:22):
From the south of Italy orpasta from the north of Italy, depending
on which restaurant you're at.
You're getting Nepalese stylepizza or you're getting Sicilian
style pizza.
They're very specific, justlike Italian food is in Italy.
But it's all very authentic.
They get, you know, they havetheir type 0 flour for the pizza.
They, you know, they have thedried pasta.
They make their own pasta.
It's very traditional Italian.

(01:01:42):
And two of the restaurantsthat I think of, right, that I've
been to actually areNeapolitan and they're all within
easy walking distance.
Up the hill from me is anIndian restaurant.
Yesterday I discovered a ramenrestaurant and I tried it and I wanted
a spicy dish and boy did I get.
I ordered the middle spice andit turned out to be the Spanish palette.

(01:02:04):
It tends not to like spicy spice.
But this Asian ramen shopdelivered, I now I know where to
go when I want spicy food.
I'm in the Indian restaurant.
There's a couple of Mexicanrestaurants in walking distance that
I, you know, once again, youknow, all these neighborhoods are
built with these places to bein walking distance.
And I'm lucky enough to be ina place where there's at least two

(01:02:25):
Mexican restaurants, both ofthem with roots in Mexico.
But when I've asked for spicyfood from them, it's toned down to
the Spanish palate, right?
So I understand that Chinesefood is a little scarce in Spain.
There's two Chineserestaurants within walking distance
of my house and then there's achain restaurant at the mall.

(01:02:46):
So there's a mall that's alsovery close to this neighborhood.
And actually the mall is partof the train station.
So the trains are at the lowerlevel, and then the upper two levels
are the mall.
And then the third level ofthe mall is like a.
Like more like a food court,restaurant area and entertainment
venue because there's a stagewith lighting and then it's joining

(01:03:06):
the movie theater.
So, you know, it's a bigspace, lots of shopping, and then
once again, you can get, youknow, some chain food there too.
They actually have a BurgerKing, McDonald's, Kentucky Fried
Chicken and Taco Bell and aHollywood restaurant there.
So, yeah, I would hope nobodygoes there.
Actually, the food here.

(01:03:28):
Because of the European laws,things just seems to be healthier.
It doesn't seem to be.
Even the fast food, I'm sure,is healthier because they have the
EU laws.
Yeah, the EU health laws andfood laws.
They make sure that you're notgetting a lot of chemicals added
to your preservatives.
That's the other thing I'venoticed from the grocery stores here
is that things have to befresh because they don't last as

(01:03:50):
long.
I mean, like, I've noticed Ihave to cook meat faster.
If I get meat, I got to cookit within three days.
I can't put it in the fridgefor more than three days, otherwise
it in the freezer.
So, you know that it helps youmaintain freshness of everything.
And I think the restaurantsalso have to deal with that.
So the restaurants always havefresh food.
And restaurants close forsiesta for the most part.

(01:04:13):
Most of them do.
Some of now, if it's a cafe, acafeteria or a bar, many of them
will stay open.
It depends on the owner.
Now, siesta, I'm one of theolder people that will gladly say,
yes, I'm going to takeadvantage of siesta time, take a
nap.
But what I've learned that,you know, people with families, people

(01:04:33):
that you know, don'tnecessarily need a nap.
They use that time to.
For family time to catch up.
Yeah.
So, you know, children are outof school, so they're picking up
their kids and getting theirkids home and settled and stuff like
that.
They're preparing or starting dinner.
They're doing laundry.
You know, you can't run anyerrands because nothing's open.

(01:04:54):
The only thing that's openduring siesta time that I know of
is a couple of the grocery stores.
Even, like the fruit andvegetable stands, the shoe stores,
the shoe repair shops.
Yeah, butchers, those allclose, like between one and four,
between one and five.
You just don't.
The banks are closed.
So, you know, people take careof their personal duties at that

(01:05:16):
time is what I've learned.
If you're not taking a nap,you're busy catching up with something
at home.
Do a lot of the restaurantsstill have a menu del dia, the menu
of the day, and have like athree course thing for really cheap.
Yeah, it's not as cheap as in,in some areas because.
And I think if you go furtherinland, it can be cheaper.

(01:05:38):
I think it's just because onceagain, they have to rotate their
stock.
But that's one thing that, youknow, most travelers have to understand
is when you ask for the menu,you get the menu del dia.
If you want to see the fullmenu of everything that a restaurant
offers, you have to ask for la carta.
So when you ask for the menuand you get the menu del dia, you
know, you get a choice of oneor two appetizers, you get a choice

(01:06:00):
of one or two main dishes.
You can pay a little extra andget a dessert with it.
Most of them come with a beverage.
So you can get either a wine,a beer, a water, a soft drink or
a coffee as your beverage withthe menu del dia.
And you know, a lot of themit's just traditional local food.

(01:06:20):
So how much would it be like a typical.
Depending.
If I get it without thedessert, it's usually between 10
and €12.
If you get it with dessert,it's 14 or €15.
So, you know, you get the fullmeal and you know, and the serving
sizes there are, you know, thefull size, not like the tapas, you
know, for the, for theappetizer you get the little tapas

(01:06:42):
size, you know, dish of whatever.
But you know, for your entreeyou're going to get meat and potato,
meat and noodles, you're goingto get fish and whatever.
So.
And the only thing that Iwould say you don't get frequently,
unless it's part of the menudel dia is a salad.
And that's one thing that Ikind of miss here is if I order a

(01:07:04):
salad, it's actually aseparate course, either a la carte
or from the menu.
And that is usually anotherseven or eight euros.
Yeah, but you know, I can geta hamburger and fries.
Those are usually between 8and €11, depending on where you're
at.
But it's a barber.
It's not like McDonald's is,you know, you're going to pay me

(01:07:24):
to all the prices at.
Actually I haven't even beento the McDonald's here.
Stay away, but go for the real stuff.
Go for the real stuff.
But you know, you know,they're still reasonably priced and
you get a full meal at those places.
But if you want a salad, youactually have to request a salad
and then you get a big salad.
So usually best to, you know,go with somebody and share the salad
if you're going to have asalad with your meal.

(01:07:46):
Right.
Sounds wonderful.
Dining sounds great.
Okay, go on to, let's go on tovisas and residency.
So you mentioned that you wereon a digital nomad visa.
Do you know what types ofother visas they have available?

(01:08:09):
So to get into Spain quickly,I went to digital nomad route where
because I really wanted tocontinue working for a little while
longer.
The other kind of visa iscalled a non lucrative visa, also
called the retirement visa.
Non lucrative visa means youhave to be able to demonstrate passive
income of Probably I think€2,300amonth when you apply.

(01:08:34):
And then you have to meet allthe other visa requirements.
But you know, you have to havea passive income, meaning from rental,
from investments, from apension, from Social Security, from
some sorts that's paying you aregular monthly benefit.
They don't accept just 401k.
They want it as a passiveincome, not just savings.

(01:08:57):
So for a lot of people thatmay be an issue unless you say, unless
you claim Social Security.
Because even, you know, mostSocial Security payments would meet
most of that 2300 month requirement.
And that's for a single person.
Now it goes up for two people.
I think it jumps up to 3700and then adding one child to a family

(01:09:18):
makes it 4300 and then alittle bit more with, if you have
more children or if you bringit in a grandparent or parent an
additional person to the household.
So the non lucrative visa isvery similar to the digital nomad
visa as far as incomerequirements for the digital nomad
visa.
I can't work for a Spanish company.
I can't do work and collectincome from a Spanish company.

(01:09:42):
In other words, I can't take ajob away from Spaniard.
Right.
So I can work for any nonSpain company I'm working for as
a consultant in thepharmaceutical industry for the United
States.
And I have been for more than15 years.
So you know, to me it's, it's,it wasn't difficult to show.
Yes, I have this history ofbeing a consultant in this industry.

(01:10:03):
There's some longevityrequirements that you have to demonstrate
as well as the income requirements.
And then you also have to, youknow, have the FBI background check,
you have to have documentsapostilled, you have to have, you
know, proof that you've paidfor this full care or health insurance.
So you know, the other visasthat are available is student visa.
I didn't really want to goback to school at my age, so I did

(01:10:24):
go for a student visa.
And what ended recently orwill be ending recently, I've heard
a couple of different thingswas what.
Yeah, what Spain the Spanishcalled the golden visa.
And that is if you invested€500,000 or more in Spanish real
estate or in a Spanishcompany, then you could be granted

(01:10:46):
a residency visa.
And I'm not sure how long thatwould last.
So with my non, with mydigital nomad visa, because I applied
while in Spain, once that getsapproved, my visa will last three
years.
If I were to apply in theUnited States for a digital nomad
visa, once it's granted, itwould be good.
It would have to be renewedevery year.

(01:11:08):
So by applying once I arrivedin Spain, that kind of took care
of renewal as frequently.
So I'm hoping at the end ofthree years, when it comes time to
renew, I can switch to the nonlucrative retirement visa.
Other than that there, there'snothing else that I learned of that
to be able to become aresident here unless you get hired

(01:11:29):
by a Spanish company.
And then usually it's becausethere is a need you, you have a,
a qualified skill that isneeded here in Spain or you have
a higher education degree thata company hires you.
For instance, you know, sinceI'm in the pharmaceutical business,
I can say, you know, if Bayerhas a facility here in Spain and

(01:11:53):
they need somebody to do thekind of work that I do.
If I applied, Bayer couldsponsor me for a residency visa and
I have residency permit aslong as I was working for Bayer.
But then it's not like a lotlike the US and H1B.
I would have to stay with thatcompany under that visa.
Right.
So that's the, you know, the,that's if you're working and have

(01:12:13):
that kind of job, the companycan help you.
But then if the companyanything happens and you know you're
not able to maintain your jobthere, if you lose your job and can't
find another company to youlosing your employment there, then
you have to leave.
So yeah, it's hard if you'reyounger and have a family.
Yeah, it is difficult.
What's the average time thatit takes to get a visa?

(01:12:36):
Do you know?
Well, you have to do a lot of preparation.
So I started gatheringdocuments for my visa and asking
for like, my FBI backgroundcheck and for my diploma to be apostilled,
because that has to be donethrough the Department of State.
So there's a lot of thingsthat you have to do from a paper
perspective.
I started that process inJanuary, late December, early January.

(01:13:01):
I worked with a firm to helpme get all the everything, make sure
I have everything collectedand appropriately applied for.
The application went in onApril 1.
I had everything ready andyeah, so it took me a couple months
to get paperwork together.
And then I had once.
I mean, the paperworktogether, then getting that submission

(01:13:22):
and you have like, everythinggets attached to the application
form and gets formallysubmitted to the Spanish government.
So that application went in inApril 1.
I heard a request, which wasright before the end of the month.
It was last week I heard a request.
They said, well, we want anupdated bank statement.
Because, you know, this onewas from the month before.
It's like, well, of course,April wasn't done yet.

(01:13:43):
Right.
So, you know, they wanted acopy of my bank statement and my,
my most recent income proofthat, yes, I'm still, I'm continuing
to work and I still have income.
So that went in Monday of this week.
So, you know, once again, youknow, it.
Things happen in less thanfour weeks for them to review and
come back with a question.

(01:14:04):
And then, you know, I'mexpecting within three weeks that,
you know, I'll either hear yayor nay.
Yeah, I don't expect a problembecause, you know, once again, I've
had legal group assisting mewith that.
And yeah, you know, they don't.
They haven't had any questionsor concerns about anything that I
provided to them.
Awesome.

(01:14:24):
Okay, so do you see yourselfstaying in Vigo long term or maybe
moving around Spain?
I've.
I like Vigo.
Every time I've come to Spain,I've visited Vigo.
And that's why it kind ofstuck on me.
It's like, I gotta go checkout the city and see what.
And even when I did a huntingtrip in Galicia, I drove around a

(01:14:47):
lot of the outside area of Vigo.
So I would like to stay inthis metropolitan area.
Yes.
Is it the.
Is it as good and welcomingand open as the gay community that
of any.
You know, when you go to theUS you go to local bar, gay bar,
and you're like, you can findcommunity quickly.
And, you know, no matter whatcity you're in here, part of it is,

(01:15:08):
I didn't move to Vigo becauseit's a gay destination.
And I moved here because it'svery gay friendly, very accepting
and the culture here, youknow, being able to have access to,
you know, the symphony, seenin the opera, seeing an art gallery,
you know, as well as, youknow, good shopping and then also
being a train ride away from Madrid.
If I want to, you know, havethe equivalent of a weekend in New

(01:15:31):
York, I'm a four hour trainright away from Madrid.
It's, you know, just as muchfun, much as much energy, just as
entertaining.
So staying here in Vigo.
Yeah.
And culturally, it's become comfortable.
Great.
Wonderful.
So are you, did we discussedlanguage a little bit before?

(01:15:51):
Are you taking any courses?
Not formally.
I've taken Spanish in highschool and in college.
Learned by ear from family members.
But one thing I do have to sayis the community here, for visitors
will, they will try their bestto help you out with English.

(01:16:14):
But for day to day living, youhave to know some Spanish.
You'd have to become comfortable.
I know that there's somecommunities that have a lot of either
American expats or Britishexpats, particularly along the Mediterranean
coast, where like, okay, yeah,they're all speaking English and
they're, they've got their own community.
That's fine if it works forthem culturally and it has their

(01:16:34):
social groups and meets alltheir social and cultural, cultural
needs.
But in a place like Vigo whereyou don't have those large pockets
of people speaking English,there are a lot of people here that
speak English and there's alot of people that want to learn
English.
There's English schools everywhere.
I mean, if I really wanted toswitch my visa and become, and earn

(01:16:55):
an income here, become ateacher as an English teacher, there's
many opportunities.
But, you know, I don't know ifI could, if I could live off of that
kind of wage of being anEnglish teacher for English as a
second language, if I neededto, I'd give it a try, but I don't
need to at this point.
But knowing the language andunderstanding it is very.
I think it's important.

(01:17:16):
It's also part of justrespecting the people here.
Sure.
They want to be able tocommunicate with you.
Sure.
And you're missing so much ifyou don't know.
Yeah.
The other thing is, you know,Galicia has one of the five recognized
languages in Spain.
So, you know, in Spain,Spanish, or castellano is recognized
across the entire country inthe Canary Islands and like in Catalan

(01:17:39):
in Barcelona, you know, that'sone of the recognized languages in
Basque in Bilbao and theBasque region.
Andalusian and Andalusia.
Here in Galicia, it's calledGallego or Gallego, and it's its
own variation of Spanish.
It has a lot of elements ofPortuguese, but it is its own unique

(01:18:01):
language.
So, you know, I can recognizeit when I hear it.
When I see it in thenewspaper, I can recognize it.
I can understand it in print.
Am I going to learn it?
Probably not, becauseeverybody here knows Castellano.
But once again, the signagehere is primarily in Gallego.
And then in Castellano, thenewspapers are all in Spanish.

(01:18:24):
Some of them have articleswritten in Gallego.
Most of them have the opinioncolumns written in Gallego.
And one of the localnewspapers is all in Gallego.
So, you know, it's still.
It's very much part of theculture here.
They're very proud of it, andunderstandably so.
It's got its lovely cuisine,it's got its lovely culture.
I love the bagpipes.
They're not quite the same asthe northern neighbors in Ireland

(01:18:47):
and Spain, but, you know, onceagain, the language is part of that.
Yeah.
Awesome.
All right, so in wrapping up,what advice would you give to someone
in the LGBTQ communityconsidering VGO as a retirement destination?
Establish a social network quick.

(01:19:08):
If you come alone.
And that's something that I've discovered.
I came here a single person.
I knew nobody in Vigo.
I mean, I, you know, I've met,like, the lady at the cafe that knows
that I drink a Cafe Americanevery time I walk in, she says, hey,
how are you?
And, you know, there's a lotof that, you know, a lot of the vendors.

(01:19:29):
You establish that kind of rapport.
So, you know, there's threecafes, four.
Four cafe bars.
They, you know, I'll go therefor lunch or dinner and, you know,
coffee or a wine or a beer.
And they all know mypreferences, because that's the way
it is here.
But if you.
Especially if you don't knowthe language really well and you're
alone, you need to make sureyou have a good social network initiated

(01:19:54):
when you land.
Because, I mean, there's a lotof things.
The, you know, setting up yourbills is unique here.
Setting up your bank account,setting up everything, all your business
transactions have a differentflavor than in the US it's not hard.
It's a little bit morebureaucratic, but it's different.
And without knowing thelanguage enough to understand, here's

(01:20:17):
what you need to do, or here'swhat I'm asking you for, it really.
It becomes a burden that youreally shouldn't have to deal with
when you're in a new placelike this.
And it's all, it's wonderful.
I'm not saying it's perfect.
There's, you know, there's alot of things that, as an American,
I wish were different, but atthe same time, that's what lends

(01:20:38):
itself here.
Like, you know, for instance,because there's no tipping and, you
know, people aren't ever in a hurry.
I've waited 20 minutes toorder a beer in the United States.
That's unconscionable.
Oh, yeah.
But here it's more like, yeah,I'll get you when I get you.

(01:20:58):
And I know you're here.
Right.
But, you know, it's.
It's manana.
Yes, Manana.
It's a different mindset.
I understand.
Yep.
It's kind of comforting.
So.
Yeah.
Okay.
So, I mean, that would be myrecommendation, is that, you know,

(01:21:19):
know somebody here orestablish a social circle really
quickly.
That would.
That's good advice.
How about finally, if you cansum up Vigo in a few words for our
listeners who, what would they be?
If you like an easygoing Irishenvironment that's not Irish, but

(01:21:42):
Mediterranean, Vigo is your place.
The misty winters withoutsnow, the mild summer, the kilts
and the bagpipes, theeasygoingness of the people here,
the fishing culture, you know,the shanties that they sing in Ireland,
they sing similar songs here,and it's part of the culture.

(01:22:06):
So you have that, but you alsohave this very slow, Mediterranean
mindset of we're not in a hurry.
It sounds fascinating.
It really does.
You just got to take a deepbreath and slow down.
Yeah.
And that's what life's about.
You know, we tend to want toslow down, so.

(01:22:26):
And I'm sure that's why youchose to live in Vigo.
So thank you so much, Daniel.
Thank you for I.
I learned a lot.
I've never even really heardof Vigo as a place to live.
And I am so glad that we metand you are able to enlighten us,

(01:22:48):
our audience, on what life islike in vigorous Spain.
I want to say thank you forletting me share my story.
You're very welcome.
And we'll see you soon.
All right.
Sounds good.
Thank you.
Bye bye, now.
Bye bye.
Thank you for listening to theWhere Do Gays Retire?

(01:23:10):
Podcast.
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