March 13, 2025 • 31 mins
Thanks to author Cassandra Moll for talking to me about her debut novel, Beautifully Broken.
Follow Cassandra:
Books mentioned in this episode:
- Lights Out by Navessa Allen
- Saving 6 by Chloe Walsh
- Binding 13 by Chloe Walsh
- The Nightingale by Kristin Hannah
For links to the books discussed in this episode, click the link here to take you to the Google Doc to view the list.
For episode feedback, future reading and author recommendations, you can text the podcast by clicking the "Send us a message button" above.
For more, follow along on Instagram @whereileftoffpod.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome back.
I'm Kristen Balls and you'relistening to when I Left Off a
bookish podcast, and today I'mjoined by the author of
Beautifully Broken, cassandraMall.
Thank you so much for coming ontoday, cassandra.
Of course, thank you for havingme.
So the first question that Ialways ask everyone and the
reason that I ask this isbecause I feel like authors just
have the best recommendationsof their favorite authors.
And the reason that I askedthis is because I feel like
authors just have the bestrecommendations of their
(00:27):
favorite authors and it seemslike every time I've read a book
from an author that they'verecommended, I've absolutely
loved it.
So no pressure, I know nopressure.
What are you currently reading?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
right now.
Okay, so I did just finishlistening to Lights Out we
talked about this a little bitbefore by Nevesa Allen.
That was different for me.
I do love a good audiobook andtheir voices were amazing, so
highly recommend it as anaudiobook.
But prior to that I read SavingSix by Chloe Walsh.
Oh, I haven't read that seriesyet.
(00:59):
Oh, the Boys of Toman, it islife changing, good to know.
I started with binding 13,obviously, which is the first in
the series, and it wasincredible.
I listened to that one,actually, because it's very long
, and then it took me a while topick up the next one.
It was heavy, so it took me awhile.
I needed a few palettecleansers in between, but I
(01:21):
finally picked up saving six andI loved it so much more than
Binding 13, which I thought wasimpossible.
So there's still a few.
I have to get to Redeeming Sixand there's the Sevens.
But yeah, highly recommend.
Chloe Walsh is great too.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Okay, good, I'll move it up my TBR.
Did you know that, nevesa, sheactually writes sports romance
too.
She has a couple.
My friend told me about them,does she?
Yeah, she said that they'rereally good.
They're not dark, they're justsports.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Isn't it interesting, like how you can just toggle
back and forth I mean I guess Iget it as an author Like I have
different thoughts.
That kind of don't go with mytypical theme.
Um, but yeah, there's so manyauthors do that and you're like,
hold on a second.
She wrote a thriller and aromance.
You know that's a littledifferent, but the only one I
ever I mean Lights Out is solike hyped up right now that I
just kind of jumped on board.
(02:06):
There's a sequel too, isn'tthere?
Speaker 1 (02:09):
I don't think it's out yet, okay, but yes, yes,
there is.
I'm pretty sure it's going tohappen.
But yeah, she has sportsromance and I didn't know until
my friend was talking about itand I'm like, oh, didn't even
think to check her other books.
I just kind of thought it washer first one, cause you know,
if you looked it up, you'dprobably only see dark romance
and think like, okay, that's it.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Well, I saw that with so many authors, you know,
having started my journey myself, like I forget who it was
specifically, but someone had,you know, a very big book that
everyone was reading and when Iwent on, like Goodreads, I
scrolled down and it was like 12other books and I just didn't
even, you know, I assumed it wastheir first one because
everyone was talking about it.
But yes, I'll have to checkthose out.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
And it kind of makes me feel better to know that.
You know a lot of authors havea really big backlist before
they get popular.
It's not like they just saidI'm going to write a book and
then it's magically, you know,super successful, like they you
can kind of tell based on thenumber of books in their
backlist, like how long they'vebeen really grinding at it to
get that one super, supersuccessful read Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
I think it's.
Kristen Hanna wrote someridiculous number of stories
before, like the Nightingale,and I mean I don't know if
you've read that, but that'sjust like infinite stars and I
mean I love all of her books,but when I found that out I was
like, okay, I can make it, Ihave time.
Even the legend herself, youknow Exactly.
(03:34):
So no, I agree, it's very cool.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Yeah, I was going to say, even like Brandon Sanderson
, I think he had to write 12 or15 before Mistborn even got
published, before they wouldagree to publish.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
So yeah, Isn't that wild.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
I know.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
And then I'm like where do you come up with all
these?
I mean, just having startedmyself, I can't imagine you know
one day being like oh, 20 booksago.
But I guess you know,eventually you get there, so
cool yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
I will say that I have a group chat with some
romance authors and so we'realways like sending each other
reels of like hey, I think thisshould be a book.
And so then we'll like writedown each other's ideas.
So you'd be shocked at likewhat random reels you know pop
up and then you're like, oh,wait a minute, I don't know that
could be an idea.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
I have written down like some weird, some quotes or
like lyrics.
We were watching.
I have three children, five andunder, all girls.
So we were watching like Frozenone day, and one of the
characters said something and Iwrote it in a note.
I'm like that's a scene rightthere, like I mean, obviously
it's seen in the movie, but I'mlike that's a romance scene.
(04:36):
I need to write that down.
So, yeah, I, I mean, I'm withyou.
You guys have to just make sureyou don't write the same book,
I guess, based off the same reel.
True.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
True.
Someone will be like I'm takingthis one, I got this one, yeah,
so it dibs on that reel thatyou sent yesterday, yep.
I'm just sending it to youbecause I want to, but it's mine
, yeah, that kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Right, or I'll do that with my friends.
I'm sending you this so I canfind it later in our chat.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Oh, that's smart.
So how did the idea forBeautifully Broken come along?
Was that like a quote orsomething that you came up with
first, or did you kind of havethe idea for the plot?
Speaker 2 (05:12):
So this is actually a crazy story.
I haven't even talked about itmuch because when does it come
up?
You know the backstory come up,but my dad passed away a couple
years ago and I actually satdown to write stories from his
life just so that I didn'tforget them.
It's one of those things whereyou know when someone's gone,
you realize like all of thethings you never asked or the
(05:33):
things you never found out, youknow.
So I sat down to write out,kind of, I guess, just a
collection of stories from hislife, thinking maybe I would
write a memoir or something formyself, just like of him.
And I wrote the prologue ofBeautifully Broken, because that
(05:54):
was a true story from his lifein foster care and like in, you
know, before he went into thesystem.
That was like something thatactually happened to him and it
was something that stuck out tome because if you've read the
prologue it's pretty intense.
And so I wrote that.
And then a couple hours later Ihad, like this romance book
which, you know, if anyonewrites anything, you know like
(06:15):
you don't control the plot, thecharacters do.
So yeah, as weird as it sounds,my opportunity to write about
my dad eventually spun intoJameson, who has a lot of
characteristics of, like mydad's personality and a lot of
his memories and things likethat, but like a 24 year old
(06:35):
mechanic, you know MMC, yeah,exactly.
So yeah, that that's where theidea came from.
It was not meant to even beever.
It just kind of like spewed outwhen I started to do that.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
So that was cool how a piece of him really inspired
the story and now you can lookback on that book and I'm sure
it holds even more meaningbecause of that.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Oh, absolutely, and it's like one of those things
where you know someone's notever truly gone If you're
talking about them.
People don't know it, but it'slittle winks to him in the book.
That's like all over the worldto some extent.
But you know people all overthe world read and things like
that, and so that's kind of coolto like hold on to him that way
.
It was a big part of like thegrieving process that I think I
needed to do and now it's justlike such a happy part.
(07:20):
So, yeah, it was really cool.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Wow, that is really, really special.
I'm glad I asked.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
And, like I said, when does that come up,
especially in, like you know, a30 second reel or something on
Instagram?
So yeah, it's kind of like afun fact.
Not many people know.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
That is so cool.
Can you tell us about yourcurrent work in progress?
So was this a standalone or isit kind of spurring off a series
?
I kind of have a feeling it's aseries but Okay.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
So Beautifully Broken is actually one of two.
I keep calling it the MapleGrove series.
That's the small town, but it'sreally a duo.
Daring Destiny comes out March1st.
It's actually with ARC Readersright now, which is very
exciting.
But that is the second.
That's the sequel.
It is Chloe and Ronan's story.
It's a little uh, if you wantme to tell you a little bit
(08:07):
about it, it's a little bitunexpected.
It doesn't just like pick upand like they fall in love and
you know that's their story.
It's just from Chloe's point ofview.
But it's a dual time frame, soit's then and now, um, before
and now, as it's written in thebook.
So the before part picks upright at the end of Beautifully
Broken and we see kind of howtheir friendship turns into a
(08:28):
relationship and through likethat first year of them being
together.
But the now part is actuallythem when they're broken up.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Oh, wow, okay, Okay, okay.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
And so, yeah, so it's different.
A lot of people who readBeautifully Broken are like yeah
, yeah, I can't wait to readChloe and Ronan's story and I'm
like I second guess that alittle bit.
No, it of course there's ahappily ever after.
Yeah, it's a little a littletwist.
So those are just the two fornow.
I've gotten a few messagesneeding Sean's story, if you
(09:00):
remember him, so maybe I'll tryand do like a little something
fun with him, but I don't thinkhe'll have his own full book now
.
That's fair.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
But yeah, that would be cool to see how Sean how that
whole thing shakes out too.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yeah, with him and him and Maddie.
He's a funny guy, so I thinkthat would make for like a fun
novella or something, just likesomething quirky.
But yeah, so, daring Destiny, Iguess it's not really my work
in progress.
It's out, you know, march 1st,but my current like actual work
in progress will be a series.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
On Daring Destiny.
So wow, it's second chanceromance.
Okay, that's really unique.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Yeah, yeah, it's like it's so funny because I
remember texting my friend, myauthor friend, like after the
book was written, and being likewait, this is second chance.
Like I wasn't listing that inlike my tropes, because in the
story they're three weeks brokenup, so it's like still feels
(09:55):
like we're lingering on thatfirst chance.
You know, but the way I alwaysexplain it is it's friends to
lovers, to a breakup, to fakedating because they're
pretending to still be together,to second chance.
So yeah, it's kind of it's alittle of everything.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
I like that.
It's almost kind of like LynnPainter moves since well, I'm
going to spoil that Going frombetter than the movies to
nothing like the movies.
They're broken up in the secondone.
I mean, it's not the same thing, but it's the same kind of idea
of they start out broken up andnothing like the movies and
it's also a second chance.
Yeah, it's going to hurt yourfeelings, but in a good way.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
So now, I have to read it.
Well, that's it.
One of the arc readers was likethis is terrible, You're
breaking my heart.
And my answer was it gets worse, but I promise it gets better.
Exactly, that's the gets worse,but I promise it gets better.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Exactly as long.
That's a good thing aboutromance, though, is whenever
there's a really angsty portion.
I feel like you can always sayat least I do in the back of my
head like there's a happily everafter, there's a happily ever
after, so it's going to be fine,it's all going to come together
somehow, yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
You're like hyping yourself up to get past it.
I know Well, I love that angstLike I re.
I love writing it.
I love reading it like thatpull and push and the tug of war
.
I love that.
So to me that's like the lightat the end of the tunnel, but
like the journey is so fun toget there.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Do you have any tips or tricks for kind of writing in
that angst and how to have thatpush and pull?
Speaker 2 (11:14):
I guess now, granted it's.
You know fiction and so there'sobviously parts that you know
only happen in books maybe.
But I try to write reallyrealistically.
You know, if you're in anargument with someone in some
books maybe you know it's likeback and forth and back and
forth and then it's like, okay,I love you and you know that's
the end.
But to me that's not real lifeand I love the like angst of not
(11:38):
knowing, like how you wouldn'tknow in real life.
You know like people get upsetand it lingers and then you have
to kind of like keep yourselffrom being near them or
something like that.
So I try to just writerealistically and just like
genuinely to how things mightplay out.
I don't know, I know it's notfor everyone, that's not like
everyone's writing style and noteveryone's reading style.
(11:59):
So I think that helps that I dolike it.
But I think, besides that, justkind of think what would be
true, you know.
And then of course you can putyour fictional spin on things.
You wouldn't always take himback or you wouldn't, you know,
just writing kind of how thingswould actually pan out, at least
how they have for me.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
I do have one more question before we really get
into Beautifully Broken.
So whenever I was reading yourbio, it said that you were a
hockey wife.
Would you ever write a hockeyromance?
It's just so big right now, oris that like no too close to
home?
Speaker 2 (12:31):
So it's funny because that's actually where I'm
headed, my work in progress.
Yes, I haven't told anyone elsethat yet, not that it's the big
secret or anything, but yeah, Iam a hockey wife and so I am
writing a hockey romance.
But it is not a hockey player,it is a hockey coach.
Oh, yes, so it is a hockeyromance, but I'm doing my own
(12:54):
little spin.
Like you said, it's so popularright now, but it's so close to
home.
I felt like I had to capitalizeon that right.
But with it being so popular,how do you make yourself stand
out and your story stand out?
And for me, not that there's noother books about a hockey
coach, but for me that's what Iknow.
So you know, you write what youknow, and so it actually will
(13:16):
be easier for me to write thatperspective.
So, yeah, I'm actually a prettygood portion in.
I really like it.
I didn't know how I would feel.
I'm very much like an againstthe grain kind of person.
So, because it was like so big,I wasn't sure that I wanted to
step there yet, but it just kindof came naturally and so, yeah,
we're good, we're going there,that's what's coming.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Yay, oh cool, I'm really excited.
I do love reading hockeyromance from the perspective of
you know, whenever I mean, I'msure, especially for you you can
tell, but I feel like even Ican tell whenever I'm reading it
if someone truly like loveshockey and is coming from a
place of, like I love hockey andI want to put as much hockey in
there with the romance as I can.
Versus like, if someone's likeokay, this is just at a game,
(14:00):
they're at a game for about fiveseconds or they're coming back
from practice and hockey's inthere, and it's on the cover but
it's not really like a hockeyhockey book.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
I say that all the time because I told my husband
that I'm going to have to puthis name on the title too,
because anytime there's, I mean,I know hockey, but I want it to
be authentic and I want it tobe a hockey romance, not just a
romance with hockey on the cover, which is also fine if that's
what you want.
But a lot of my friends knowthe sport and you know a lot of
(14:27):
my author friends also writehockey.
So like we do know hockey, so Ikeep making him help me with
the certain scenes.
I'm like, what, what time wouldthey get there?
How long would practice, youknow?
Know, like I'm one to liketriple check plot holes too, and
so I'm like, okay, pretend thatyou.
Well, he doesn't have topretend.
But I'm like I want to pretendthat this reader is a hockey
(14:48):
player and so like I want themto love the romance, but I also
want them to be like that wouldactually happen, you know.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
I appreciate that because, yeah, me and my friends
, whenever we're like sendingdms to each other, we're like
that would never happen.
How would that actually happen?
So, yeah, that's like our mainthing.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
That gets us so frustrated yeah, no, seriously
like and there's a couple likewinks in there too, at like, if
you really know hockey, you'llpick it up, and if you don't,
that's fine.
But I really wanted it to beauthentic to a hockey romance
now I I'm really really excited.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
I was already excited , but now I'm really really
excited for it.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
My plan is for four of them.
They won't all be hockeyrelated, but they're all like
sports in general.
But yeah, hockey is the firstand possibly the second.
It was meant it had to happen.
I mean, it's literally my life.
My kids skate and play hockey.
My husband's a hockey coach, soyeah, it was meant to be.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Okay, focusing a little bit more on Beautifully
Broken specifically.
So how would you describe therelationship kind of dynamic
between Jay and Claire and whatmakes their romance unique?
Speaker 2 (15:58):
So I think for me and I know this is true for a lot
of stories, but it's just verygenuine, obviously like there's
a physical attraction there.
They have, you know, this bigmeet cute where they're both
like taken by each other.
But the spice in the book isvery much plot driven and I just
(16:19):
feel like their relationship isso genuine, like they're both
flawed.
But Jay especially has so manyflaws and so many things he
thinks are flaws that maybearen't but that like really
weigh on him.
And Claire is justunderstanding of it, she just is
forgiving of all the things.
And you know, and I think thatis kind of their dynamic of like
(16:41):
they're both going through abig life change sort of.
I mean, jay has been goingthrough it, claire is in the
moment going through it.
It's kind of like just buildingeach other up and just like
filling in those holes that youfeel like you have.
And so the other person is likecompleting that for you, not
not completing you, but kind oflike filling in those gaps so
you don't fall.
(17:01):
You know, there's like you knowthat thing.
That's the.
A couple has to be a hundredpercent.
You don't always have to be 50,50.
Sometimes I'm going to be 20and I need you to be 80.
And sometimes you're going tobe 10 and I have to be 90.
And I feel like they reallyjust do that for each other.
To me, I think that's prettyunique.
It's not just like oh, I thinkshe's hot, I think he's hot, we
fall in love.
(17:22):
You know, I think there reallyis a lot of like power in their
love.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Yeah, claire does a really good job at learning Jay
and how to handle him, eventhough I feel like a lot of
other women might be like nope,nope, I can't, and then just
walk away and not even give hima chance, even though obviously
he's deserving of love too.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Yeah, yeah, like you're too much.
No, for sure, and I think too alot of women you know in real
life love the idea of a projectperson, right, someone who has a
lot of things that they'reworking on, but you reach your
limit and you get to like apoint, and I feel like Claire is
very forgiving of that.
I think it comes back to herjob too.
Like she's a teacher and soshe's used to that.
(18:02):
She kind of like is used tosupporting people and helping to
mold them, as like weird asthat might sound, but like being
there for them, as they're kindof learning and growing, and so
, yeah, I think they're like theperfect pair, because she's
also very shy and reserved andkind of like insecure in herself
as much as she's secure in himand like will help him.
(18:24):
It's harder, you know, lookinginside and he is like that big,
bold personality.
That's like you're it and youshould own that and that's like
the only way that I survivedgetting here.
So, yeah, I think they feed offeach other well.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
And which character's perspective was easier for you
to write, and why?
Speaker 2 (18:42):
I think Jay's character surprisingly, even
though he's the male character,because I just went so much off
of my dad's personality and justa lot of it is true, and so it
was just kind of like writing,you know, real stories.
I mean Claire, I am in, I workin education and I left the
classroom and went into intoadmin and now I'm writing my own
books and so I am very muchlike Claire also.
(19:04):
But to me Jay was so easy towrite.
I don't know if it just had todo with my dad or maybe that was
just like the person that hasbeen growing in my mind just had
to be put to paper.
But yeah, for me it was so easy, and people have said that too.
Like, how did you write him sorealistically?
I, it was so easy, and peoplehave said that too, like, how
did you write like him sorealistically?
I can't write from a guy'sperspective or something like
(19:25):
that.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
It just came naturally.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
That is so cool.
Hey, if it happens, it happens,that's perfect.
Yeah, wow, yeah Right.
I mean I love, like the dualpoint of view thing, so it would
be a big struggle if I couldn'tput myself into that mindset,
at least you know.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
So what does your editing process look like once
you finish that first draft?
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Just so much reading.
It's almost like exhausting.
I like to read it and read itand read it and edit it myself a
million times in between eachstep.
So when I'm done the draft,just starting from the top,
starting from the top readingall the way through, doing that
several times, you know, then itgoes off to beta readers and
things, and then when it comesback I do it again.
It's funny, it's like you knowthat joke of I only read two
(20:04):
books this month, but I read mybook 12 times.
So does that count, you know?
But yeah, it is as simple as itsounds.
I just read it and read it untilyou know it so well that, like
you're not worried about theplot, you're not worried about
the character arcs and thingslike that.
It's just like, okay, whatmakes more sense here?
What grammar needs to bechanged there?
That's the way I do it.
(20:25):
I know that might be totallycringy to some people.
I don't know, I don't know theprocess, but if you don't read
it, hell, you know what's inthere.
Yeah, I mean, like I rememberreading it and being like I
can't read this one more, I'm sosick, you know, like I just
it's like reading the same bookover it, because that's what it
is.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
And I'm sure you're used to reading like little
scenes at a time over and overagain.
But actually going back andseeing how it plays out into the
whole story is probablycompletely different when you
have to do like a full rereadRight, and it's not like a book
that you're picking up Like Ilove reading.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
That's not it, but I already know the story as much
as I have reread some of myfavorite books.
It would be like doing it 12times in a row.
Man, yeah, that would be hard.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Were there any quirks or details about Jay and Claire
really any of the charactersthat maybe didn't make it into
the final version of the book?
Speaker 2 (21:13):
I wouldn't say necessarily quirks, that didn't
make it in.
I think they each have theirown little quirks that if you
pay close attention or you doread it, that second or third
time you'll pick up on it.
It's funny because there's alot of music in the book and a
lot of song references, so muchso that there's, you know, a
(21:33):
full playlist at the back ofjust songs from the story.
And what I didn't realizehaving not even sitting down to
write a book, you know a fullplaylist at the back of just
songs from the story.
And what I didn't realizehaving not even sitting down to
write a book, you know it justcame naturally is you can't put
song lyrics in a story.
And so I had my story.
I think it was done, I think thewhole first draft was done, and
any mention of a song mostmentions of the songs in the
(21:56):
book which I mean I thinkthere's like 18 of them were
lyrics and some, like one of mybeta readers was like girl, you
can't do that, and so a lot ofthose obviously didn't make them
and I had to go back and kindof allude to it or just drop the
title, you know, instead of thelyrics or kind of summarize
what the artist was saying andsay, like from Justin Bieber's
(22:18):
point of view, kind of thing,you know.
But yeah, so all of thoselyrics that I painstakingly
wanted in the story weren'tthere.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
So I think, it all worked out.
That is so, so hard.
I've heard a lot of otherauthors say that, like, yeah,
you could only put the title, oryou can't really just put a
song lyric, and that makes sense, but that would be so hard.
That's one of those things thatyou don't think about until,
luckily, you had a beta reader.
Point that out.
I mean, your editor would have,but you know, still, at least
it got to the point where youcould fix it before your editor
(22:47):
got a hold of it yeah, and thenyou know you can go back and fix
it in the meantime and youdon't.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
You're not like so invested already.
Yeah, yeah, I mean talk aboutlike, oh, where do you get ideas
from?
I mean, so many of those sceneswere built around lyrics and I
had to take them out, so it wasa little bit of a game changer.
But we're learning as we go.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
So what was your favorite scene to write in?
Have readers kind of had aclear favorite, and is that the
same as your favorite?
Speaker 2 (23:12):
I don't know if I have an exact favorite when they
meet.
I really love that.
I just think that's so fun andthere's a big scene at the end
that I won't give too much away.
But you know, it's kind of likewhen they come back together
and that was like a really funmoment to write because it felt
very satisfying, felt likerewarding and you know I knew I
(23:35):
was so close to being the endand that was kind of the start
of like fulfilling their story.
But I also really just love anyscene that Chloe's in.
Like Chloe and Claire just havelike this perfect, like, like,
like I said, claire is very shyand reserved and Chloe is just
not and she's so loyal and likefun and outgoing so that always
made me laugh.
Same with Ronan and Jay's youyou know relationship.
(23:55):
I love that too.
I feel like some of my favoritescenes might even just be
around those friendships noteven so much Claire and Jay,
which is interesting.
But as far as readers go,there's one scene in particular
that there's a quote whereveryou are, and a lot of people
seem to come back to that one.
I don't know if it's just thatshort snippet of like a
statement that sticks out.
(24:16):
But again it's kind of like alike a story changing moment.
And there's another scene wherethey just have their first kiss
and you know they're walkingout of the place that they just
had their first kiss.
And Jay like really hisinternal monologue is like I
want to do this, I want to dothis, I want to say this, like I
(24:43):
can't let her leave.
And he says he does like.
You know, the story says like Isay this, I do this, and then
it says only I say none of thatand I just let her walk away.
And a lot of people have likescreenshotted that and been like
what?
So that's kind of fun, you know, because that's who he is, like
his brain is just constantlysecond guessing himself and
things like that.
So that was fun.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
I really also liked the, the barbecue scene and the
mall.
Just I don't know.
Like you said, whenever all thecharacters are interacting
together, that was really fun.
On like a fun note, not as muchof an angsty note, but on more
of a fun note.
I like that too.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Yeah, definitely.
I've had people say I wish Ihad more of like them as a group
you know, because I think it isa little heavier and they are
like they're four totallydifferent personalities Ronan's
very chill, jay is very you knowedgy.
Chloe's very bubbly, claire isvery reserved, and so it's kind
of fun to see them interact.
But I will say that in DaringDestiny, 90% of the story is the
(25:33):
four of them.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Yeah, so if anyone needs more of that friendship,
it's there.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
And Ron's music choice just always made me laugh
.
It was so bad that barbecuescene.
Like I was, I was literally.
You should have seen my Googlehistory.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Like just Googling like the weirdest songs.
Yeah, that was great, thosewere fun.
I was reading that thinking,thinking like how did she think
of this, especially wheneverthey're you were giving examples
of like ways.
Jay was explaining ways in thepast where his song choice was
not, yes, fit for the occasion.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
I was like, oh my gosh, exactly like the one where
, uh, what is it like?
Uh, margaritaville, but it's atsomeone's like five years sober
.
You, you know, yes, like, yeah,I would either think of a song
and have to come up with thescene, or I would think of a
scene and have to come up withthe song, but the one part where
I talk about it's like twodifferent singers and you know
it's a certain song that theypick.
(26:29):
Can I tell you the amount oftime I spent trying to find two
artists that had the same namebut that also, like, were in?
You know, like, relative toeverything, yeah, that was fun
though that is awesome.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
I do like how music's intertwined a lot throughout
the book and how you were ableto do that, because that's hard
to really try to find the rightsong to match the scene and
match the situation.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Yeah, I feel like that's kind of like oh, I just
really enjoy music and thelyrics really like are my
favorite part.
But that's kind of beensomething that's become like my
thing.
You know, on Instagram orwhatever, if I post something,
people are like how do you pickthese songs Like these?
You know it's always like theperfect match.
I think that's just how mybrain works.
I'm not musically inclined atall, but listening to it is my
(27:13):
favorite thing.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Do you have like a million playlists organized and
everything?
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Oh, yeah, and every book has playlists.
You know, I have, like my kids,playlists and things like that,
but like, when I hear songs, Ihave lists going of future books
.
I think they go with.
You know, it's maybe a littlemuch, but it works.
Yeah, it works, it works for me.
(27:38):
What advice would you give toaspiring romance authors?
Oh, that's one I think I would.
As simple as it sounds, I wouldsay just write like, don't
worry about what fits in andwhat doesn't.
I always say not every book isfor everybody, but it's for
someone and so you know, I thinkwe write what we like typically
.
I mean, I'm not writing fantasybooks because I don't typically
read them.
So if you're writing it and youenjoy the story, chances are
someone else out there is alsogoing to.
(28:00):
You just have to find yourpeople, you know, and just don't
care so much about what it'ssupposed to sound like, what
everyone else is doing, whattropes it fits Like.
I just had this conversationwith someone about my work in
progress and I'm like I don'tknow what trope it goes into.
And you know we kind of got tothe point of being like why does
it matter?
You know like that it doesn'thave to fall into a category.
(28:21):
So I would probably say thatand read.
Whenever I get to like a blockin my writing, I read.
It's inspiring, it tells youwhat you like, it tells you what
you don't like.
You know you might just pick upon one thing a character says
and it just sparks somethingelse in you.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
So yeah, I think just my big advice is write and read
.
And I've heard from a lot ofreaders lately that they kind of
want like fewer tropes, youknow because they feel like
they've read it.
And so I've heard kind of morelike sprinklings of I don't want
all the tropes.
Or if your book has 20 tropesthen I may not want to read it
because I like something alittle bit different that maybe
doesn't fit into a trope.
So it's actually kind of Ithink that's popping up a little
(29:00):
bit more.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Oh, wow, I love that.
Okay, yeah, I haven't heardthat yet.
I mean, I have heard people.
You know I can't do anotherfake dating trope or especially
like the novellas aroundChristmas.
A lot of them are very similar,which that's what we're looking
for, right, you just want likethat, that's what you're craving
at the time.
But if I read one more grumpy,sunshine Christmas novella, you
know like whatever it might be,so I actually kind of love that
(29:22):
Good.
So we're trending in thatdirection.
That's my big advice.
Then it's fitting for wherewe're headed.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Exactly, you were already seeing the trends before
they started happening.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Yeah, that's it.
I'm a leader, I'm a leader.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
I was gonna say I've actually found a lot of
Christmas books this year thatdidn't fit that specific trope,
that seemed really different andwere fitting with the mold.
So yeah, I think that there arejust a lot of books out there
and it depends on probably alsokind of where you're finding
your books and if you're readyto kind of delve a little bit
deeper and maybe look at authorsthat you haven't heard of
before, you can be reallypleasantly surprised on what
(29:59):
you'll find.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Yeah, absolutely, especially like the indie
authors.
I mean, I don't know, I'venever traditionally published,
but I would assume that you kindof go with what's popular.
Sometimes you know, or likewhat categories can we advertise
for those kinds of things?
And so a lot of indie authorsstart kind of like I did, like
they don't have a plan in mind,they just dump a story on the
page, and so I think you canprobably find a lot of books
(30:23):
that are different that way too.
Like you said, where you look,you know where you look and what
you read.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
So is there anything else that you would like readers
to know?
Speaker 2 (30:31):
No, I just, if anyone has read any of my books, I
just want to say thank you.
I just.
I can't even begin to fathomthat the words that came out of
my brain in the middle of mydining room in the summertime
are now, you know, being read onpeople's Kindles and everything
else all over.
So I always say it changed mycorner of the world.
I might not change the world,but it changed my corner.
(30:53):
So thank you to everyone.
Yeah, I love this journey andit's just so fun and I love that
they're all here.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
That's it for today.
Thanks for listening to when ILeft Off a bookish podcast.
You can sign up for Cassandra'snewsletter, purchase her novels
and find everything to followher in the links in the show
notes.
Welcome back.
I'm Kristen Balls and you'relistening to when I Left Off a
bookish podcast, and today I'mjoined by the author of
Beautifully Broken, cassandraMall.
Thank you so much for coming ontoday, cassandra.
Of course, thank you for havingme.
So the first question that Ialways ask everyone and the
reason that I ask this isbecause I feel like authors just
have the best recommendationsof their favorite authors.
And the reason that I askedthis is because I feel like
authors just have the bestrecommendations of their
(00:27):
favorite authors and it seemslike every time I've read a book
from an author that they'verecommended, I've absolutely
loved it.
So no pressure, I know nopressure.
What are you currently reading?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
right now.
Okay, so I did just finishlistening to Lights Out we
talked about this a little bitbefore by Nevesa Allen.
That was different for me.
I do love a good audiobook andtheir voices were amazing, so
highly recommend it as anaudiobook.
But prior to that I read SavingSix by Chloe Walsh.
Oh, I haven't read that seriesyet.
(00:59):
Oh, the Boys of Toman, it islife changing, good to know.
I started with binding 13,obviously, which is the first in
the series, and it wasincredible.
I listened to that one,actually, because it's very long
, and then it took me a while topick up the next one.
It was heavy, so it took me awhile.
I needed a few palettecleansers in between, but I
(01:21):
finally picked up saving six andI loved it so much more than
Binding 13, which I thought wasimpossible.
So there's still a few.
I have to get to Redeeming Sixand there's the Sevens.
But yeah, highly recommend.
Chloe Walsh is great too.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Okay, good, I'll move it up my TBR.
Did you know that, nevesa, sheactually writes sports romance
too.
She has a couple.
My friend told me about them,does she?
Yeah, she said that they'rereally good.
They're not dark, they're justsports.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Isn't it interesting, like how you can just toggle
back and forth I mean I guess Iget it as an author Like I have
different thoughts.
That kind of don't go with mytypical theme.
Um, but yeah, there's so manyauthors do that and you're like,
hold on a second.
She wrote a thriller and aromance.
You know that's a littledifferent, but the only one I
ever I mean Lights Out is solike hyped up right now that I
just kind of jumped on board.
(02:06):
There's a sequel too, isn'tthere?
Speaker 1 (02:09):
I don't think it's out yet, okay, but yes, yes,
there is.
I'm pretty sure it's going tohappen.
But yeah, she has sportsromance and I didn't know until
my friend was talking about itand I'm like, oh, didn't even
think to check her other books.
I just kind of thought it washer first one, cause you know,
if you looked it up, you'dprobably only see dark romance
and think like, okay, that's it.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Well, I saw that with so many authors, you know,
having started my journey myself, like I forget who it was
specifically, but someone had,you know, a very big book that
everyone was reading and when Iwent on, like Goodreads, I
scrolled down and it was like 12other books and I just didn't
even, you know, I assumed it wastheir first one because
everyone was talking about it.
But yes, I'll have to checkthose out.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
And it kind of makes me feel better to know that.
You know a lot of authors havea really big backlist before
they get popular.
It's not like they just saidI'm going to write a book and
then it's magically, you know,super successful, like they you
can kind of tell based on thenumber of books in their
backlist, like how long they'vebeen really grinding at it to
get that one super, supersuccessful read Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
I think it's.
Kristen Hanna wrote someridiculous number of stories
before, like the Nightingale,and I mean I don't know if
you've read that, but that'sjust like infinite stars and I
mean I love all of her books,but when I found that out I was
like, okay, I can make it, Ihave time.
Even the legend herself, youknow Exactly.
(03:34):
So no, I agree, it's very cool.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Yeah, I was going to say, even like Brandon Sanderson
, I think he had to write 12 or15 before Mistborn even got
published, before they wouldagree to publish.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
So yeah, Isn't that wild.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
I know.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
And then I'm like where do you come up with all
these?
I mean, just having startedmyself, I can't imagine you know
one day being like oh, 20 booksago.
But I guess you know,eventually you get there, so
cool yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
I will say that I have a group chat with some
romance authors and so we'realways like sending each other
reels of like hey, I think thisshould be a book.
And so then we'll like writedown each other's ideas.
So you'd be shocked at likewhat random reels you know pop
up and then you're like, oh,wait a minute, I don't know that
could be an idea.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
I have written down like some weird, some quotes or
like lyrics.
We were watching.
I have three children, five andunder, all girls.
So we were watching like Frozenone day, and one of the
characters said something and Iwrote it in a note.
I'm like that's a scene rightthere, like I mean, obviously
it's seen in the movie, but I'mlike that's a romance scene.
(04:36):
I need to write that down.
So, yeah, I, I mean, I'm withyou.
You guys have to just make sureyou don't write the same book,
I guess, based off the same reel.
True.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
True.
Someone will be like I'm takingthis one, I got this one, yeah,
so it dibs on that reel thatyou sent yesterday, yep.
I'm just sending it to youbecause I want to, but it's mine
, yeah, that kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Right, or I'll do that with my friends.
I'm sending you this so I canfind it later in our chat.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Oh, that's smart.
So how did the idea forBeautifully Broken come along?
Was that like a quote orsomething that you came up with
first, or did you kind of havethe idea for the plot?
Speaker 2 (05:12):
So this is actually a crazy story.
I haven't even talked about itmuch because when does it come
up?
You know the backstory come up,but my dad passed away a couple
years ago and I actually satdown to write stories from his
life just so that I didn'tforget them.
It's one of those things whereyou know when someone's gone,
you realize like all of thethings you never asked or the
(05:33):
things you never found out, youknow.
So I sat down to write out,kind of, I guess, just a
collection of stories from hislife, thinking maybe I would
write a memoir or something formyself, just like of him.
And I wrote the prologue ofBeautifully Broken, because that
(05:54):
was a true story from his lifein foster care and like in, you
know, before he went into thesystem.
That was like something thatactually happened to him and it
was something that stuck out tome because if you've read the
prologue it's pretty intense.
And so I wrote that.
And then a couple hours later Ihad, like this romance book
which, you know, if anyonewrites anything, you know like
(06:15):
you don't control the plot, thecharacters do.
So yeah, as weird as it sounds,my opportunity to write about
my dad eventually spun intoJameson, who has a lot of
characteristics of, like mydad's personality and a lot of
his memories and things likethat, but like a 24 year old
(06:35):
mechanic, you know MMC, yeah,exactly.
So yeah, that that's where theidea came from.
It was not meant to even beever.
It just kind of like spewed outwhen I started to do that.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
So that was cool how a piece of him really inspired
the story and now you can lookback on that book and I'm sure
it holds even more meaningbecause of that.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Oh, absolutely, and it's like one of those things
where you know someone's notever truly gone If you're
talking about them.
People don't know it, but it'slittle winks to him in the book.
That's like all over the worldto some extent.
But you know people all overthe world read and things like
that, and so that's kind of coolto like hold on to him that way
.
It was a big part of like thegrieving process that I think I
needed to do and now it's justlike such a happy part.
(07:20):
So, yeah, it was really cool.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Wow, that is really, really special.
I'm glad I asked.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
And, like I said, when does that come up,
especially in, like you know, a30 second reel or something on
Instagram?
So yeah, it's kind of like afun fact.
Not many people know.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
That is so cool.
Can you tell us about yourcurrent work in progress?
So was this a standalone or isit kind of spurring off a series
?
I kind of have a feeling it's aseries but Okay.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
So Beautifully Broken is actually one of two.
I keep calling it the MapleGrove series.
That's the small town, but it'sreally a duo.
Daring Destiny comes out March1st.
It's actually with ARC Readersright now, which is very
exciting.
But that is the second.
That's the sequel.
It is Chloe and Ronan's story.
It's a little uh, if you wantme to tell you a little bit
(08:07):
about it, it's a little bitunexpected.
It doesn't just like pick upand like they fall in love and
you know that's their story.
It's just from Chloe's point ofview.
But it's a dual time frame, soit's then and now, um, before
and now, as it's written in thebook.
So the before part picks upright at the end of Beautifully
Broken and we see kind of howtheir friendship turns into a
(08:28):
relationship and through likethat first year of them being
together.
But the now part is actuallythem when they're broken up.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Oh, wow, okay, Okay, okay.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
And so, yeah, so it's different.
A lot of people who readBeautifully Broken are like yeah
, yeah, I can't wait to readChloe and Ronan's story and I'm
like I second guess that alittle bit.
No, it of course there's ahappily ever after.
Yeah, it's a little a littletwist.
So those are just the two fornow.
I've gotten a few messagesneeding Sean's story, if you
(09:00):
remember him, so maybe I'll tryand do like a little something
fun with him, but I don't thinkhe'll have his own full book now
.
That's fair.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
But yeah, that would be cool to see how Sean how that
whole thing shakes out too.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yeah, with him and him and Maddie.
He's a funny guy, so I thinkthat would make for like a fun
novella or something, just likesomething quirky.
But yeah, so, daring Destiny, Iguess it's not really my work
in progress.
It's out, you know, march 1st,but my current like actual work
in progress will be a series.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
On Daring Destiny.
So wow, it's second chanceromance.
Okay, that's really unique.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Yeah, yeah, it's like it's so funny because I
remember texting my friend, myauthor friend, like after the
book was written, and being likewait, this is second chance.
Like I wasn't listing that inlike my tropes, because in the
story they're three weeks brokenup, so it's like still feels
(09:55):
like we're lingering on thatfirst chance.
You know, but the way I alwaysexplain it is it's friends to
lovers, to a breakup, to fakedating because they're
pretending to still be together,to second chance.
So yeah, it's kind of it's alittle of everything.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
I like that.
It's almost kind of like LynnPainter moves since well, I'm
going to spoil that Going frombetter than the movies to
nothing like the movies.
They're broken up in the secondone.
I mean, it's not the same thing, but it's the same kind of idea
of they start out broken up andnothing like the movies and
it's also a second chance.
Yeah, it's going to hurt yourfeelings, but in a good way.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
So now, I have to read it.
Well, that's it.
One of the arc readers was likethis is terrible, You're
breaking my heart.
And my answer was it gets worse, but I promise it gets better.
Exactly, that's the gets worse,but I promise it gets better.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Exactly as long.
That's a good thing aboutromance, though, is whenever
there's a really angsty portion.
I feel like you can always sayat least I do in the back of my
head like there's a happily everafter, there's a happily ever
after, so it's going to be fine,it's all going to come together
somehow, yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
You're like hyping yourself up to get past it.
I know Well, I love that angstLike I re.
I love writing it.
I love reading it like thatpull and push and the tug of war
.
I love that.
So to me that's like the lightat the end of the tunnel, but
like the journey is so fun toget there.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Do you have any tips or tricks for kind of writing in
that angst and how to have thatpush and pull?
Speaker 2 (11:14):
I guess now, granted it's.
You know fiction and so there'sobviously parts that you know
only happen in books maybe.
But I try to write reallyrealistically.
You know, if you're in anargument with someone in some
books maybe you know it's likeback and forth and back and
forth and then it's like, okay,I love you and you know that's
the end.
But to me that's not real lifeand I love the like angst of not
(11:38):
knowing, like how you wouldn'tknow in real life.
You know like people get upsetand it lingers and then you have
to kind of like keep yourselffrom being near them or
something like that.
So I try to just writerealistically and just like
genuinely to how things mightplay out.
I don't know, I know it's notfor everyone, that's not like
everyone's writing style and noteveryone's reading style.
(11:59):
So I think that helps that I dolike it.
But I think, besides that, justkind of think what would be
true, you know.
And then of course you can putyour fictional spin on things.
You wouldn't always take himback or you wouldn't, you know,
just writing kind of how thingswould actually pan out, at least
how they have for me.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
I do have one more question before we really get
into Beautifully Broken.
So whenever I was reading yourbio, it said that you were a
hockey wife.
Would you ever write a hockeyromance?
It's just so big right now, oris that like no too close to
home?
Speaker 2 (12:31):
So it's funny because that's actually where I'm
headed, my work in progress.
Yes, I haven't told anyone elsethat yet, not that it's the big
secret or anything, but yeah, Iam a hockey wife and so I am
writing a hockey romance.
But it is not a hockey player,it is a hockey coach.
Oh, yes, so it is a hockeyromance, but I'm doing my own
(12:54):
little spin.
Like you said, it's so popularright now, but it's so close to
home.
I felt like I had to capitalizeon that right.
But with it being so popular,how do you make yourself stand
out and your story stand out?
And for me, not that there's noother books about a hockey
coach, but for me that's what Iknow.
So you know, you write what youknow, and so it actually will
(13:16):
be easier for me to write thatperspective.
So, yeah, I'm actually a prettygood portion in.
I really like it.
I didn't know how I would feel.
I'm very much like an againstthe grain kind of person.
So, because it was like so big,I wasn't sure that I wanted to
step there yet, but it just kindof came naturally and so, yeah,
we're good, we're going there,that's what's coming.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Yay, oh cool, I'm really excited.
I do love reading hockeyromance from the perspective of
you know, whenever I mean, I'msure, especially for you you can
tell, but I feel like even Ican tell whenever I'm reading it
if someone truly like loveshockey and is coming from a
place of, like I love hockey andI want to put as much hockey in
there with the romance as I can.
Versus like, if someone's likeokay, this is just at a game,
(14:00):
they're at a game for about fiveseconds or they're coming back
from practice and hockey's inthere, and it's on the cover but
it's not really like a hockeyhockey book.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
I say that all the time because I told my husband
that I'm going to have to puthis name on the title too,
because anytime there's, I mean,I know hockey, but I want it to
be authentic and I want it tobe a hockey romance, not just a
romance with hockey on the cover, which is also fine if that's
what you want.
But a lot of my friends knowthe sport and you know a lot of
(14:27):
my author friends also writehockey.
So like we do know hockey, so Ikeep making him help me with
the certain scenes.
I'm like, what, what time wouldthey get there?
How long would practice, youknow?
Know, like I'm one to liketriple check plot holes too, and
so I'm like, okay, pretend thatyou.
Well, he doesn't have topretend.
But I'm like I want to pretendthat this reader is a hockey
(14:48):
player and so like I want themto love the romance, but I also
want them to be like that wouldactually happen, you know.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
I appreciate that because, yeah, me and my friends
, whenever we're like sendingdms to each other, we're like
that would never happen.
How would that actually happen?
So, yeah, that's like our mainthing.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
That gets us so frustrated yeah, no, seriously
like and there's a couple likewinks in there too, at like, if
you really know hockey, you'llpick it up, and if you don't,
that's fine.
But I really wanted it to beauthentic to a hockey romance
now I I'm really really excited.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
I was already excited , but now I'm really really
excited for it.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
My plan is for four of them.
They won't all be hockeyrelated, but they're all like
sports in general.
But yeah, hockey is the firstand possibly the second.
It was meant it had to happen.
I mean, it's literally my life.
My kids skate and play hockey.
My husband's a hockey coach, soyeah, it was meant to be.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Okay, focusing a little bit more on Beautifully
Broken specifically.
So how would you describe therelationship kind of dynamic
between Jay and Claire and whatmakes their romance unique?
Speaker 2 (15:58):
So I think for me and I know this is true for a lot
of stories, but it's just verygenuine, obviously like there's
a physical attraction there.
They have, you know, this bigmeet cute where they're both
like taken by each other.
But the spice in the book isvery much plot driven and I just
(16:19):
feel like their relationship isso genuine, like they're both
flawed.
But Jay especially has so manyflaws and so many things he
thinks are flaws that maybearen't but that like really
weigh on him.
And Claire is justunderstanding of it, she just is
forgiving of all the things.
And you know, and I think thatis kind of their dynamic of like
(16:41):
they're both going through abig life change sort of.
I mean, jay has been goingthrough it, claire is in the
moment going through it.
It's kind of like just buildingeach other up and just like
filling in those holes that youfeel like you have.
And so the other person is likecompleting that for you, not
not completing you, but kind oflike filling in those gaps so
you don't fall.
(17:01):
You know, there's like you knowthat thing.
That's the.
A couple has to be a hundredpercent.
You don't always have to be 50,50.
Sometimes I'm going to be 20and I need you to be 80.
And sometimes you're going tobe 10 and I have to be 90.
And I feel like they reallyjust do that for each other.
To me, I think that's prettyunique.
It's not just like oh, I thinkshe's hot, I think he's hot, we
fall in love.
(17:22):
You know, I think there reallyis a lot of like power in their
love.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Yeah, claire does a really good job at learning Jay
and how to handle him, eventhough I feel like a lot of
other women might be like nope,nope, I can't, and then just
walk away and not even give hima chance, even though obviously
he's deserving of love too.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Yeah, yeah, like you're too much.
No, for sure, and I think too alot of women you know in real
life love the idea of a projectperson, right, someone who has a
lot of things that they'reworking on, but you reach your
limit and you get to like apoint, and I feel like Claire is
very forgiving of that.
I think it comes back to herjob too.
Like she's a teacher and soshe's used to that.
(18:02):
She kind of like is used tosupporting people and helping to
mold them, as like weird asthat might sound, but like being
there for them, as they're kindof learning and growing, and so
, yeah, I think they're like theperfect pair, because she's
also very shy and reserved andkind of like insecure in herself
as much as she's secure in himand like will help him.
(18:24):
It's harder, you know, lookinginside and he is like that big,
bold personality.
That's like you're it and youshould own that and that's like
the only way that I survivedgetting here.
So, yeah, I think they feed offeach other well.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
And which character's perspective was easier for you
to write, and why?
Speaker 2 (18:42):
I think Jay's character surprisingly, even
though he's the male character,because I just went so much off
of my dad's personality and justa lot of it is true, and so it
was just kind of like writing,you know, real stories.
I mean Claire, I am in, I workin education and I left the
classroom and went into intoadmin and now I'm writing my own
books and so I am very muchlike Claire also.
(19:04):
But to me Jay was so easy towrite.
I don't know if it just had todo with my dad or maybe that was
just like the person that hasbeen growing in my mind just had
to be put to paper.
But yeah, for me it was so easy, and people have said that too.
Like, how did you write him sorealistically?
I, it was so easy, and peoplehave said that too, like, how
did you write like him sorealistically?
I can't write from a guy'sperspective or something like
(19:25):
that.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
It just came naturally.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
That is so cool.
Hey, if it happens, it happens,that's perfect.
Yeah, wow, yeah Right.
I mean I love, like the dualpoint of view thing, so it would
be a big struggle if I couldn'tput myself into that mindset,
at least you know.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
So what does your editing process look like once
you finish that first draft?
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Just so much reading.
It's almost like exhausting.
I like to read it and read itand read it and edit it myself a
million times in between eachstep.
So when I'm done the draft,just starting from the top,
starting from the top readingall the way through, doing that
several times, you know, then itgoes off to beta readers and
things, and then when it comesback I do it again.
It's funny, it's like you knowthat joke of I only read two
(20:04):
books this month, but I read mybook 12 times.
So does that count, you know?
But yeah, it is as simple as itsounds.
I just read it and read it untilyou know it so well that, like
you're not worried about theplot, you're not worried about
the character arcs and thingslike that.
It's just like, okay, whatmakes more sense here?
What grammar needs to bechanged there?
That's the way I do it.
(20:25):
I know that might be totallycringy to some people.
I don't know, I don't know theprocess, but if you don't read
it, hell, you know what's inthere.
Yeah, I mean, like I rememberreading it and being like I
can't read this one more, I'm sosick, you know, like I just
it's like reading the same bookover it, because that's what it
is.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
And I'm sure you're used to reading like little
scenes at a time over and overagain.
But actually going back andseeing how it plays out into the
whole story is probablycompletely different when you
have to do like a full rereadRight, and it's not like a book
that you're picking up Like Ilove reading.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
That's not it, but I already know the story as much
as I have reread some of myfavorite books.
It would be like doing it 12times in a row.
Man, yeah, that would be hard.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Were there any quirks or details about Jay and Claire
really any of the charactersthat maybe didn't make it into
the final version of the book?
Speaker 2 (21:13):
I wouldn't say necessarily quirks, that didn't
make it in.
I think they each have theirown little quirks that if you
pay close attention or you doread it, that second or third
time you'll pick up on it.
It's funny because there's alot of music in the book and a
lot of song references, so muchso that there's, you know, a
(21:33):
full playlist at the back ofjust songs from the story.
And what I didn't realizehaving not even sitting down to
write a book, you know a fullplaylist at the back of just
songs from the story.
And what I didn't realizehaving not even sitting down to
write a book, you know it justcame naturally is you can't put
song lyrics in a story.
And so I had my story.
I think it was done, I think thewhole first draft was done, and
any mention of a song mostmentions of the songs in the
(21:56):
book which I mean I thinkthere's like 18 of them were
lyrics and some, like one of mybeta readers was like girl, you
can't do that, and so a lot ofthose obviously didn't make them
and I had to go back and kindof allude to it or just drop the
title, you know, instead of thelyrics or kind of summarize
what the artist was saying andsay, like from Justin Bieber's
(22:18):
point of view, kind of thing,you know.
But yeah, so all of thoselyrics that I painstakingly
wanted in the story weren'tthere.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
So I think, it all worked out.
That is so, so hard.
I've heard a lot of otherauthors say that, like, yeah,
you could only put the title, oryou can't really just put a
song lyric, and that makes sense, but that would be so hard.
That's one of those things thatyou don't think about until,
luckily, you had a beta reader.
Point that out.
I mean, your editor would have,but you know, still, at least
it got to the point where youcould fix it before your editor
(22:47):
got a hold of it yeah, and thenyou know you can go back and fix
it in the meantime and youdon't.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
You're not like so invested already.
Yeah, yeah, I mean talk aboutlike, oh, where do you get ideas
from?
I mean, so many of those sceneswere built around lyrics and I
had to take them out, so it wasa little bit of a game changer.
But we're learning as we go.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
So what was your favorite scene to write in?
Have readers kind of had aclear favorite, and is that the
same as your favorite?
Speaker 2 (23:12):
I don't know if I have an exact favorite when they
meet.
I really love that.
I just think that's so fun andthere's a big scene at the end
that I won't give too much away.
But you know, it's kind of likewhen they come back together
and that was like a really funmoment to write because it felt
very satisfying, felt likerewarding and you know I knew I
(23:35):
was so close to being the endand that was kind of the start
of like fulfilling their story.
But I also really just love anyscene that Chloe's in.
Like Chloe and Claire just havelike this perfect, like, like,
like I said, claire is very shyand reserved and Chloe is just
not and she's so loyal and likefun and outgoing so that always
made me laugh.
Same with Ronan and Jay's youyou know relationship.
(23:55):
I love that too.
I feel like some of my favoritescenes might even just be
around those friendships noteven so much Claire and Jay,
which is interesting.
But as far as readers go,there's one scene in particular
that there's a quote whereveryou are, and a lot of people
seem to come back to that one.
I don't know if it's just thatshort snippet of like a
statement that sticks out.
(24:16):
But again it's kind of like alike a story changing moment.
And there's another scene wherethey just have their first kiss
and you know they're walkingout of the place that they just
had their first kiss.
And Jay like really hisinternal monologue is like I
want to do this, I want to dothis, I want to say this, like I
(24:43):
can't let her leave.
And he says he does like.
You know, the story says like Isay this, I do this, and then
it says only I say none of thatand I just let her walk away.
And a lot of people have likescreenshotted that and been like
what?
So that's kind of fun, you know, because that's who he is, like
his brain is just constantlysecond guessing himself and
things like that.
So that was fun.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
I really also liked the, the barbecue scene and the
mall.
Just I don't know.
Like you said, whenever all thecharacters are interacting
together, that was really fun.
On like a fun note, not as muchof an angsty note, but on more
of a fun note.
I like that too.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Yeah, definitely.
I've had people say I wish Ihad more of like them as a group
you know, because I think it isa little heavier and they are
like they're four totallydifferent personalities Ronan's
very chill, jay is very you knowedgy.
Chloe's very bubbly, claire isvery reserved, and so it's kind
of fun to see them interact.
But I will say that in DaringDestiny, 90% of the story is the
(25:33):
four of them.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Yeah, so if anyone needs more of that friendship,
it's there.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
And Ron's music choice just always made me laugh
.
It was so bad that barbecuescene.
Like I was, I was literally.
You should have seen my Googlehistory.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Like just Googling like the weirdest songs.
Yeah, that was great, thosewere fun.
I was reading that thinking,thinking like how did she think
of this, especially wheneverthey're you were giving examples
of like ways.
Jay was explaining ways in thepast where his song choice was
not, yes, fit for the occasion.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
I was like, oh my gosh, exactly like the one where
, uh, what is it like?
Uh, margaritaville, but it's atsomeone's like five years sober
.
You, you know, yes, like, yeah,I would either think of a song
and have to come up with thescene, or I would think of a
scene and have to come up withthe song, but the one part where
I talk about it's like twodifferent singers and you know
it's a certain song that theypick.
(26:29):
Can I tell you the amount oftime I spent trying to find two
artists that had the same namebut that also, like, were in?
You know, like, relative toeverything, yeah, that was fun
though that is awesome.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
I do like how music's intertwined a lot throughout
the book and how you were ableto do that, because that's hard
to really try to find the rightsong to match the scene and
match the situation.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Yeah, I feel like that's kind of like oh, I just
really enjoy music and thelyrics really like are my
favorite part.
But that's kind of beensomething that's become like my
thing.
You know, on Instagram orwhatever, if I post something,
people are like how do you pickthese songs Like these?
You know it's always like theperfect match.
I think that's just how mybrain works.
I'm not musically inclined atall, but listening to it is my
(27:13):
favorite thing.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Do you have like a million playlists organized and
everything?
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Oh, yeah, and every book has playlists.
You know, I have, like my kids,playlists and things like that,
but like, when I hear songs, Ihave lists going of future books
.
I think they go with.
You know, it's maybe a littlemuch, but it works.
Yeah, it works, it works for me.
(27:38):
What advice would you give toaspiring romance authors?
Oh, that's one I think I would.
As simple as it sounds, I wouldsay just write like, don't
worry about what fits in andwhat doesn't.
I always say not every book isfor everybody, but it's for
someone and so you know, I thinkwe write what we like typically
.
I mean, I'm not writing fantasybooks because I don't typically
read them.
So if you're writing it and youenjoy the story, chances are
someone else out there is alsogoing to.
(28:00):
You just have to find yourpeople, you know, and just don't
care so much about what it'ssupposed to sound like, what
everyone else is doing, whattropes it fits Like.
I just had this conversationwith someone about my work in
progress and I'm like I don'tknow what trope it goes into.
And you know we kind of got tothe point of being like why does
it matter?
You know like that it doesn'thave to fall into a category.
(28:21):
So I would probably say thatand read.
Whenever I get to like a blockin my writing, I read.
It's inspiring, it tells youwhat you like, it tells you what
you don't like.
You know you might just pick upon one thing a character says
and it just sparks somethingelse in you.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
So yeah, I think just my big advice is write and read
.
And I've heard from a lot ofreaders lately that they kind of
want like fewer tropes, youknow because they feel like
they've read it.
And so I've heard kind of morelike sprinklings of I don't want
all the tropes.
Or if your book has 20 tropesthen I may not want to read it
because I like something alittle bit different that maybe
doesn't fit into a trope.
So it's actually kind of Ithink that's popping up a little
(29:00):
bit more.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Oh, wow, I love that.
Okay, yeah, I haven't heardthat yet.
I mean, I have heard people.
You know I can't do anotherfake dating trope or especially
like the novellas aroundChristmas.
A lot of them are very similar,which that's what we're looking
for, right, you just want likethat, that's what you're craving
at the time.
But if I read one more grumpy,sunshine Christmas novella, you
know like whatever it might be,so I actually kind of love that
(29:22):
Good.
So we're trending in thatdirection.
That's my big advice.
Then it's fitting for wherewe're headed.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Exactly, you were already seeing the trends before
they started happening.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Yeah, that's it.
I'm a leader, I'm a leader.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
I was gonna say I've actually found a lot of
Christmas books this year thatdidn't fit that specific trope,
that seemed really different andwere fitting with the mold.
So yeah, I think that there arejust a lot of books out there
and it depends on probably alsokind of where you're finding
your books and if you're readyto kind of delve a little bit
deeper and maybe look at authorsthat you haven't heard of
before, you can be reallypleasantly surprised on what
(29:59):
you'll find.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Yeah, absolutely, especially like the indie
authors.
I mean, I don't know, I'venever traditionally published,
but I would assume that you kindof go with what's popular.
Sometimes you know, or likewhat categories can we advertise
for those kinds of things?
And so a lot of indie authorsstart kind of like I did, like
they don't have a plan in mind,they just dump a story on the
page, and so I think you canprobably find a lot of books
(30:23):
that are different that way too.
Like you said, where you look,you know where you look and what
you read.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
So is there anything else that you would like readers
to know?
Speaker 2 (30:31):
No, I just, if anyone has read any of my books, I
just want to say thank you.
I just.
I can't even begin to fathomthat the words that came out of
my brain in the middle of mydining room in the summertime
are now, you know, being read onpeople's Kindles and everything
else all over.
So I always say it changed mycorner of the world.
I might not change the world,but it changed my corner.
(30:53):
So thank you to everyone.
Yeah, I love this journey andit's just so fun and I love that
they're all here.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
That's it for today.
Thanks for listening to when ILeft Off a bookish podcast.
You can sign up for Cassandra'snewsletter, purchase her novels
and find everything to followher in the links in the show
notes.
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