September 19, 2024 • 39 mins
Thanks to Heather Garvin for joining to me talk about the release of her New Adult Romance novel I Just Want to Be Yours.
Read Heather's Books:
- I Just Want to Be Yours (Signed Edition) - Available 9/20 - On KU
- Just Don't Call Me Yours - On KU
- Crossing the Line (Signed Edition) - On KU
- Make Your Move (Signed Edition) - On KU
Follow Heather:
For links to the books discussed in this episode, click the link here to take you to the Google Doc to view the list.
For episode feedback, future reading and author recommendations, you can text the podcast by clicking the "Send us a message button" above.
For more, follow along on Instagram @whereileftoffpod.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kristen Bahls (00:09):
Welcome back.
I'm Kristen Bahls and you'relistening to Where I Left Off, a
Bookish Podcast, and today I'mjoined by the author of the Take
What You Can series, Crossingthe Line and Just Don't Call Me
Yours Heather Garvin, and we aretalking all about her second
book in the duet.
I Just Want to Be Yours.
Thank you so much for joiningme today.
Heather Garvin (00:28):
Heather, thank you for having me.
I'm excited.
Yeah, me too.
Kristen Bahls (00:32):
Oh my gosh, I loved your book.
But before we get into actuallytalking about the book, I
always ask everyone what are youcurrently reading?
Heather Garvin (00:41):
right now, so I'm currently listening to
Business or Pleasure and I'mreally really enjoying it.
Kristen Bahls (00:52):
I listen to it too, and it's so good over audio
.
Heather Garvin (00:58):
The narrator does an amazing job.
I feel like, when it comes toaudiobooks, so much relies on
the narrator and I'm really,really enjoying it.
I really feel like, when itcomes to audiobooks, so much
relies on the narrator and I'mreally, really enjoying it.
Kristen Bahls (01:07):
I really feel like she's what I would imagine
Chandler to sound like, just inher voice and everything.
Yeah, perfect person.
Yeah, be prepared to cry.
I cried at the end of it.
You would think like onaudiobook, you know you would
have a lesser chance of crying,but I can't even remember what I
(01:28):
was doing.
Like I was doing something else, like scrubbing something while
I was crying.
So be prepared.
It's super cute, though.
Heather Garvin (01:38):
Yeah, I, I still have like five hours left, so I
still have a good chunk of thebook to listen to.
Did not think it was going tobe sad, though, so now I'm a
little concerned.
Kristen Bahls (01:51):
It's cut.
There are parts, but it'sreally not like it's.
It's very cute overall, buthave you read any other Rachel
and Solomon books, or is thisyour first?
Heather Garvin (02:01):
I don't think so .
I think this is my first, butI'm really enjoying it, so I'll
have to check out her otherbooks.
Do you have another one thatyou really like by her?
Kristen Bahls (02:09):
Um, well, I really love her YA books.
Um, she has today, tonight,tomorrow.
It's also a duet.
It actually it kind of like acouple little bits of it, the
enemies to lovers kind ofreminded me of um, of your duet,
but it's Today, Tonight,Tomorrow is the first one, and
then Past, Present, Future isthe second one.
(02:30):
So one's like when they're inhigh school, on the last day of
high school, and then the secondone is when they're in college
and they're in a long-termrelationship and they're trying
to figure it out and, like, makeit work.
Heather Garvin (02:40):
Yeah, that long distance will get you.
Kristen Bahls (02:43):
I said long-term, yeah, I meant long distance but
both, I mean honestly both, butyeah, hers are really cute.
And then, um, I have the Ex talkon my shelf.
It's on the TBR shelf up topthat I need to read next and it
sounds really cute.
It's like a radio thing andthey have to pretend to be exes
for a radio show and then theystart falling in love.
(03:05):
So, yeah, that does sound good.
That's really cute.
What's the best book that youread this year?
Have you done a lot of readingor has it been more like writing
focused?
Heather Garvin (03:17):
Mostly writing focused or beta reading for
other authors.
I feel like a lot of the stuffthat I end up reading ends up
being stuff that isn't publishedyet, you know by friends and
stuff like that.
But I did really enjoy the DeadRomantics so I have to say
that's probably so far one of myfavorite books that I've read
(03:39):
this year, because that onereally surprised me.
I just I loved it.
Kristen Bahls (03:49):
It's on my shelf.
I need to read it.
I really want to pick it up,Like it's.
It's definitely high up there.
Have you read Seven Year Slip?
I haven't.
It's one of my favorites.
Heather Garvin (03:56):
I know and I heard that one's even more
popular, so I definitely need toadd that one to the list.
Kristen Bahls (04:02):
Yeah.
And then I have, of course, anovel love story that I haven't
gotten to because you knoweveryone publishes so quickly
you can't keep up with all ofthe books, yeah, and that one
hasn't even been out that long,that one just came out.
Yeah, that one just came out acouple months ago.
Heather Garvin (04:19):
Yeah, I think so .
I remember seeing a bunch ofstuff about it.
But yeah, I'm still on.
I only read the Dead Romantics,but I did really love it.
Kristen Bahls (04:27):
Oh, good good good, because I've heard mixed
reviews, so I'm glad that youloved it.
Heather Garvin (04:31):
Yeah, I did too.
Like once, I think, I went andlooked at Goodreads.
After reading it I was likesurprised that some people I
mean it's always surprising.
I mean, when you have thousandsof reviews, obviously you're
going to have people that loveit and don't love it.
But it's always interesting tosee how different people
perceive the same book.
Kristen Bahls (04:49):
you know, I agree um on your current work in
progress.
So what's next like?
What are you working on?
Are you kind of taking a breakor have you already started
writing something else?
Heather Garvin (05:02):
so I'm deep into editing.
I'm actually wrapping up editson the Christmas book, which is
called um when the fake snowfalls, and that one I'm kind of.
It's already pretty much beenthrough betas and I'm just
finalizing and cleaning it up asmuch as I can before I send it
(05:24):
to my editor.
But I did start writing like anew idea, but then I kind of had
to put it on hold for thislaunch and then getting the
Christmas book ready.
It's just, it's a lot to craminto the end of the year.
So I haven't found a lot oftime to really work on a new
project, but I'm looking forwardto diving back into it.
(05:45):
As soon as the Christmas bookis like in my editor's hands and
I can't do anything with itanymore, then I think I'll get
back into writing.
Is it a standalone?
Into writing?
Is it a standalone?
The Christmas one?
Yeah, yeah, that one will be astandalone and I really love it.
I'm just I'm excited to sharemore about it because I'm really
(06:07):
excited.
These are older characters.
They're probably they're likein their late twenties and I've
always written very new adult.
So it was fun to kind of beable to escalate certain things
and kind of level up, you know,with just them being at a
different stage in their life.
Kristen Bahls (06:24):
Are you going to continue to write older
characters?
Is this going to be areoccurring theme, or are you
kind of just going to bounceback and forth between them,
depending on what ideas come toyou?
Heather Garvin (06:35):
Yeah, I don't know, I'm always kind of all
over the place with things.
I really love the new adultromance because there's
something so exciting about likethat first really impacting
love or that first relationshipthat's, you know, really
important and kind of dry.
It becomes like a driving forcein your life a little bit.
(06:57):
But I found that when I waswriting the holiday rom-com and
they are older, like thatbrought a whole different set of
things that I really likedabout, like writing that age
group.
So I don't know, we'll see, I'dlike to stay a little older if
I can Maybe not do like collegeagain for a little bit.
(07:19):
I think I like mid-20s,late-20s, kind of easing into
something a little different.
Kristen Bahls (07:25):
I like both.
So yeah, me too.
Either one, either one are good.
I was going to ask on the onethat you're kind of starting to
plan out Are you a pantser orare you a plotter?
How do you kind of go aboutsetting everything?
Heather Garvin (07:38):
up.
I'm a total pantser.
Honestly.
I'm trying to be better, I'mtrying to be a more intentional
pantser.
So I'm trying to like reallykind of ground myself and like,
okay, well, what do I want tohappen?
And honestly, I find tropesreally helpful with my writing.
(07:59):
Like if I can pick which tropesI want in the book, I can kind
of shape a story that caters tothat around it.
So I find that helpful.
But yeah, I'm definitely apantser and it usually makes
editing a lot of work on theback end, because then I have to
go back and fix a bunch ofthings that I didn't think
(08:21):
through, you know.
But I find that when I plot toomuch in the beginning, the
actual writing feels more likework, because I feel like all
the fun part of like figuringout where the story was going to
go is done.
I already know where it's goingto go.
Now I have to put it on paperand that feels like such a task,
whereas if I don't know wherethe story is going to go and I
(08:45):
just kind of write and figure itout, I find that I write much
faster and I have more fun withit.
So I don't know, that's justwhat I do.
Kristen Bahls (08:53):
I'm always really impressed by Panthers.
I couldn't do it.
I'd have to pull it out.
Heather Garvin (09:00):
It can definitely be daunting when you
know you send it to somebodythat you respect and they're
like, yeah, I don't think youneed this chapter or I think you
need something else here.
And then you're like, oh man,if I would have known this in
the beginning, that would havebeen helpful.
But I mean, it is what it isTrue.
Kristen Bahls (09:17):
And hey, like you said, if it helps you write a
little bit faster and kind ofget the story down, then that's
more important anyway, and youcan always go back and you know,
fix and adjust stuff.
Heather Garvin (09:28):
Yeah, there's always time for that.
Yeah, it's just how much workyou have to put into it, and
what are your deadlines?
Kristen Bahls (09:45):
So, speaking a little bit more about I Just
Want to Be Yours.
How does this story kind ofpick up where the first book
left off, without spoiling thefirst?
Heather Garvin (09:51):
one, yeah.
So the first book is a lot oflike Jackson and Margo's.
It's an enemies to lovers.
So for a good chunk of the bookthey don't exactly see eye to
eye.
But then they're kind of forcedtogether through the fact that
their best friends are dating,so they're constantly around
each other and then it isn'treally until the end of the book
(10:15):
that they finally like agree togive it a shotettiness and, you
know, whatever it may be intosomething that turned out to be
(10:42):
a very like mature, solidrelationship, even though it
does, you know, of course, haveups and downs.
Kristen Bahls (10:49):
Yeah, I mean, they have to get used to that
completely differentrelationship.
Like you said, they're so ateach other's throats for the
first book and now they're acouple, and so that's just
totally, totally two differentthings.
Heather Garvin (11:05):
Yeah, and it was .
It was tricky with the longdistance thing, but I knew I
really wanted the second book tobe long distance because I knew
I wanted Jackson to havesuccess in the band and to go on
the road and everything.
And Margo has every right tohave her separate dreams and
(11:26):
goals that she wants to pursueand so they don't always align
with what they're doing.
But I just I really likedshowing that, but it was very
difficult to write for me.
I think having the twocharacters and the two main love
interests being apart so muchbut then still trying to make it
(11:49):
feel like they're connected, umwas definitely challenging
because I didn't want it to getboring when they weren't
together.
You know, like stuff had tokeep happening.
Life goes on you know, but Istill wanted to very much keep
their relationship as, like, thecenter focus of the book.
So it was tricky, but I thinkit all worked out.
Kristen Bahls (12:11):
Yeah, and I mean that makes sense because of
course if Jackson didn't go withthe band then he would have
never been happy staying incollege and then that would have
been a whole other thing.
And then, like you said, withMargo, she's not just going to
drop everything when theirrelationship's new.
So you know, it makes sensethat yeah.
Right and it was so new.
Heather Garvin (12:33):
Yeah, it was so new in your relationship, like
it's one thing if you've beentogether for a while and then
it's like, yeah, okay, let mesacrifice this, this and this,
but when it's so, so new to justwalk away from your entire life
, like I didn't really wantMargo to do that, yeah, yeah, I
agree, and I feel like it'sprobably indicative of a lot of
(12:55):
relationships in college.
Kristen Bahls (12:58):
Most are probably long distance, so of some kind
you know whether whateverthey're doing or whatever
schools they're going to like,that's just something that is a
little bit more realistic too.
Yeah, definitely so.
I know that readers really loveit, but what are some of the
challenges of trying to writedual POV?
(13:19):
And Jackson and Margo?
They both have very distinctvoices, but how did you keep
their voices distinct as youwere writing?
Heather Garvin (13:29):
That's a good question and I wish I had a
clear cut answer for you.
I love writing the male pointof view.
I think it's so much fun.
In my book Crossing the Line, Ihad it be dual point of view
and Aiden in that book is verygrumpy sunshine.
(13:55):
So it was so easy todifferentiate them because he
was so grumpy and she was so notyou know.
So it made it very easy.
With Jackson and Margot, I feellike Jackson had a very strong
personality from the start andMargot took a little more like
fine tuning.
Like when I first wrote her shewas like way too mean, like I
(14:19):
had to like soften her.
And then, you know, over timeand over, like beta feedback of
you know, because I remember inthe beginning a lot of my beta
readers were like I don't likeMargo, like I don't understand
why Jackson likes her, becauseshe's just mean to him all the
time.
You know.
Kristen Bahls (14:38):
And.
Heather Garvin (14:38):
I was like, okay , well, I need to change some
things.
So after kind of making allthose changes, she eventually
became very distinct in my headbut, like Jackson definitely
started out like right out ofthe gate.
I knew who I wanted Jackson tobe like 100%.
And then Margo kind of took alittle more time like shaping
her into the character that sheeventually became, but yeah, it
(15:02):
ended up working out.
Keeping them separate, I mean,I, I don't know, I think the
male point of view, you justhave to think of things that
guys would and wouldn't say oryou know whatever like he's not
gonna have thoughts about, likemascara, obviously, you know,
like stuff like that, like justmaking sure that everything
(15:24):
stays true to them and yeah,their personalities just kind of
shine through on their own niceand like you said, making
completely differentpersonalities does make it a
little bit, a little bit easierthan if they're kind of similar
and then you're trying to adjust.
Kristen Bahls (15:39):
But I do think that nine times out of 10, I do
kind of like reading, readingthe male's point of view more
the MMC, because yeah, I mean, Iwas just thinking back to most
of the books I've read latelyand I'm like, yeah, I really do
like their chapters a little bitbetter.
I tend to like gravitatetowards those.
Heather Garvin (15:56):
Yeah, and my editor was helpful with that too
.
I don't remember what the exactphrase was, but I remember in
her feedback at one point shesaid it was some type of phrase
I used in a Margot chapter andshe said you've had Jackson use
this phrase in book one and shewas like, but Margo never really
(16:19):
uses this phrase.
She was like Jackson does.
So she the fact that, likeshe's an incredible editor too,
definitely helps, because shedid catch that, you know, and
she caught a few other things.
But yeah, they usually they'rejust so different that they kind
of just take on a life of theirown.
You know, that makes sense.
Kristen Bahls (16:39):
Can you tell me about some of the new characters
that are introduced in I JustWant to Be Yours that are not a
part of the first book, and kindof what role they play in the
story?
Heather Garvin (16:48):
Yeah.
So Maya and Braden are probablythe biggest ones Maya I adore.
I knew I just wanted thisbubbly, fun energy to really
liven up Jackson's life on tourand I knew I wanted her to be
kind of like bro to him.
(17:09):
You know, like I wanted her tobe like one of the guys like
that he can just like, let loosewith and just have it, be
friends.
You know, just totally friends.
I kind of liked the idea of likethe misdirect, like here's this
like hot girl with like tattoosand pink hair and, um, you
think she's going to be an issue, but and Margo thinks she's
(17:32):
going to be an issue at first,right, and Margo thinks she's
going to be an issue, but she,right, and Margo thinks she's
going to be an issue, but she'sjust so cool Like you can't help
but just love her, you know.
And then with Brayden, I tookhim.
I didn't originally plan onbringing him back, but he was in
the car in the first book whenthey left the party.
(17:54):
And Margo has this moment inthe first book where she's
sitting between Braden andJackson in the back of the car
and she's wondering why there'sthis perfectly nice guy who's,
you know, hot and put togetherand sweet and seems
well-mannered and like she justdoesn't feel anything for him.
(18:17):
And then there's Jackson on theother side, who's like rough
and abrasive and gives her ahard time and gets under her
skin but like every time theirlike knees would brush, brush,
like she would feel somethingyou know.
So I really liked the idea ofbringing him back and I wanted
him to be very much like Mattand you know, just kind of put
(18:39):
together and clean, cut and likeyou can see why they're friends
, why they work.
But then you know it's justundeniable what she feels with
Jackson and I can't compete yeah, he was a fun one to bring back
.
Kristen Bahls (18:56):
I, it took me a second and then whenever I think
you make mention to it and um,and I just want to be yours that
he was in the van, and I went,oh, he's the one from the van
and I totally forgot about thatuntil it brought it up.
Heather Garvin (19:12):
Yeah, yeah, I think Jackson even like he like
calls her out for staring at himfor so long.
Yeah, she was literally staringat him, trying to figure out
why she was not attracted to him.
And of course he doesn't see itthat way.
So yeah it just it felt verylike full circle moment just to
(19:35):
kind of bring Brayden back, andit was funny because I had a
friend, you know, and she waslike too many b names, you need
to change someone's name and Iwas like I agree, but I did not
realize that Brayden was gonnabe a character well, he, he at
least is pretty um distinctivein his personality, so I felt
like that made it a little biteasier for me to distinguish him
(19:56):
from the other b names, forsure yeah, I feel like the only
b name that's really close tohis name is like Brady, but
Brady's in the band andBrayden's not, so they're never
really together in a scene oranything like that, which that
helps that helps.
Kristen Bahls (20:13):
Yeah, they were together in a scene that I'm
like wait a minute, who's who?
But yeah, no, right Easy totell.
So do you actually have amusical background that inspired
the story, or do you just likereally appreciate music in
general?
Heather Garvin (20:31):
I have no musical background whatsoever.
My brother can play guitar andhe's super talented.
He, like taught himself off ofYouTube.
I don't know, oh, wow I don'tknow, I don't know how people do
these things.
But no, actually what inspiredthe book was.
I listened to Dave Grohl'sautobiography and I pulled a lot
(20:55):
from that, because Dave talksall about like the early stages
of being in the band and howthey were so broke and like just
the struggles of living in avan and everything like that.
And as I was listening to it Iwas just like, oh, this would be
so good as like a romance, youknow.
So that's really where I pulleda lot of the inspiration from
(21:16):
was that autobiography, and thenI just kind of shaped it into
this fictional story of Jacksonand Margo, that makes sense.
Kristen Bahls (21:25):
Yeah, they just had so many like musical debates
, you know, and so I thoughtmaybe Heather's like really
musical herself and that's howshe decided this.
I mean, I love music, yeah,listen to music, but I have no
musical talent well, I couldn'ttell, and I like how they have
(21:48):
um, of course it's more in thefirst than the second, but a
little bit in the second.
I like how, uh, margo andJackson's taste are so
completely different.
It's kind of funny to see themfight about it versus them, just
automatically liking the samebands yeah, yeah, absolutely one
of the many things that theydon't agree on.
They've got some common groundeventually.
(22:12):
Oh my gosh, that playlist thatMargot made.
Heather Garvin (22:22):
Yes, plenty of plenty of landslide on there.
Just forget it.
He loved it?
Kristen Bahls (22:30):
Are the American Thieves inspired by an existing
band or did you come up withthem on your own?
Heather Garvin (22:38):
They're really not.
I mean, I think if I had topick a band that I'd want them
to be similar to, then maybeArctic Monkeys, because I did
pull a lot of Jackson's vibefrom Arctic Monkeys but I don't
really have like an actual reallife band that I was modeling it
(23:03):
after, anything like that.
But I wanted him to have kindof that musical sound because I
believe that it's something.
A band like the Arctic Monkeysis a band that someone with
Margo's taste in music couldactually like.
You know.
So like I wanted it to bebelievable that she would like
(23:23):
Jackson's music, even though sheusually doesn't like Jackson's
type of music, you know, eventhough she usually doesn't like
Jackson's type of music.
So modeling it loosely off ofthem felt like an easy way to
kind of make that morebelievable, I guess.
Kristen Bahls (23:39):
So that's smart, Focusing a little bit more on
the romance side of things.
In your opinion, between bothbooks, what is the most romantic
gesture or scene between margoand jackson?
Heather Garvin (23:55):
it's a hard one to pick.
It is because I really love theending scene of the first book,
when you know they're at thestage and everything like that
to me feels very grand gesturelike it was like a scene that I
could imagine seeing in a movie,you know, and so when I think
(24:15):
of like a romantic gesture, Ithink of that scene, but then
the sequel obviously has a lotmore romance in it.
It's just much more intimateromance.
It's not something that's bigand on display for everybody to
see.
It's much more intimate romance.
It's not something that's bigand on display for everybody to
see.
It's much more just like thetwo of them having these quiet
moments.
(24:36):
So I'd say, either from thefirst book, the ending scene at
the concert, or the second book,probably the pool scene is.
Kristen Bahls (24:52):
Is that the one that's in um in the pre-order
incentives?
Isn't that the character artthat's included?
Yeah, yes, yeah, I love thatart.
If you pre-order, if youpre-order the book and fill out
the pre-order form, then you toocan get art from the post-pd.
Heather Garvin (25:10):
Yes, yeah, I always try to do like something
art that's a little bit steamyand then art from like a sweeter
moment too.
But yeah, I loved, uh, how bothart pieces turned out for the
pre-order incentives.
Kristen Bahls (25:26):
I already pre-ordered my copy so I'm ready
, thank you.
So how did your approach, kindof overall in writing this
second book really differ fromwriting the first one?
There are so many things thathave evolved by this point.
Heather Garvin (25:45):
Yeah, so writing the first one, I was able to be
much more of a pantser.
I didn't really need a plan.
I could see where the story wasgoing.
There was nothing boxing me inso like anything could happen.
When I was writing the sequel, Iknew certain things needed to
happen.
(26:05):
So I had to be much moreintentional and I feel like the
sequel is probably the mostplotting I've ever done.
I even had like a loose likeoutline where I plotted all
these different things thatneeded to happen from, you know,
the beginning of the book tothe end of the book, and Having
(26:27):
that made it feel like a muchslower process to write it,
because I was having to be veryintentional with each chapter
and everything like that.
So it slowed me down a lot andit took me much longer to write
it.
Plus, it's a much longer bookit's like 20,000 words longer
(26:50):
than the first one.
So I had to write more and Ihad to really follow through and
I had already set up certainthings that I couldn't change.
So it felt almost a little bitlimiting, even though it really
wasn't, because I knew whatneeded to happen and all of
those things could happen, youknow.
Kristen Bahls (27:09):
But um, and all of those things could happen,
you know.
But I did get stuck.
I got stuck and I took a break.
I wrote a Christmas book Iwasn't planning on writing and
then I came back to it, rest andI'm sure especially like that
it instead of having to continuetheir story, getting to go on a
(27:32):
completely different tangentwhere you didn't have to focus
so much on what they had done orwhat they had said was probably
a really nice break for asecond right?
Heather Garvin (27:42):
yeah, it really was.
I wrote that Christmas book sofast.
I just I sped right through itand it was the perfect break I
needed.
To go back to Jackson I thinkit was just too much time with
Jackson and Margot, like I wastoo close to it, I couldn't like
see it clearly, and I'm notused to writing series.
I didn't even really intend forthis to be a series, so I'm
(28:04):
very much more comfortablewriting standalones.
I like being able to like closethe book and be done with those
characters and then I can moveon and do something all new.
You know.
So the fact that this carriedon with the same characters and
the same storyline, it was justa very long stretch of time to
be like writing them.
(28:24):
So I think I just needed like apalate cleanser and I took a
break and I did that and then Icame back and I I felt much
better so what you're saying isthat Brayden's story is not
coming soon, right?
I don't know maybe maybe one dayI won't say, I won't say
(28:45):
definitely, because I havethought about it um, I'm just
not sure when it would happen,but it it would be fun to write
a Brayden story.
Kristen Bahls (28:57):
I, I didn't want to say which character he was
with because I felt like I wouldspoil it, but but, yeah, yeah
no I get that.
You just need a break for asecond from it before ever even
thinking about um coming back toit, but you know.
If you ever wanted to, I thinkeveryone would be really open to
(29:18):
it.
Heather Garvin (29:20):
Yeah, I have thought about it.
It's definitely something thatis possible.
You know, when people ask melike oh are you going to write a
sequel to like Make your Moveor Crossing the Line?
Like I can 100% say, no, I'mnot, but when it comes to
Brayden, maybe.
Kristen Bahls (29:38):
Good to know before I read Crossing the Line
and Make your Move.
So that way, once I get there,then I'll know okay, enjoy this
one as a standalone.
There's not another one comingRight.
Okay, enjoy this one as astandalone.
There's not another one comingRight.
Heather Garvin (30:16):
For this book.
Were there any unexpectedreactions from readers after the
release of actually the firstone that influenced, kind of how
you started writing the secondand the duet?
That's a good question, I think, margot being somewhat
indecisive or insecure.
I feel like Margot had veryvalid reasons to be that way in
the first book.
Oh yeah, but I could tell thatit was something that readers
wanted to see her grow out ofand I think once I saw that I
felt it too Like I wanted her tobe empowered by their
(30:38):
relationship and I wanted her tobe bolder.
I wanted her to be moreoutspoken.
So I really worked on Margotdeveloping and growing, based on
some of the feedback from thefirst book, because I wanted her
to be a much stronger femalecharacter than she initially was
(31:00):
.
Kristen Bahls (31:00):
Like I wanted to show that growth for her, which
is hard, especially with him andhis fame kind of growing, and
that's a totally differentelement that they probably
really didn't think that theywere gonna have to deal with
until it's there, right yeah,yeah, I mean I don't, I don't
think I could be in Margo'sshoes.
Heather Garvin (31:21):
I don't know, I don't know.
Kristen Bahls (31:23):
I don't know that would be, that would be so
different.
That would be really weird.
I don't know.
Heather Garvin (31:27):
Yeah, it would be especially weird, I don't
know.
Yeah, it would be, especiallywhen you're not there.
Kristen Bahls (31:31):
Because anything could happen.
Heather Garvin (31:33):
Yeah, yeah, and the only thing I could compare
it to, because obviously I'venever dated a rock star, but I
did around the time of my 20, Iwas dating a guy who was already
21 and he worked as like abarback, like in a downtown bar,
(31:58):
so he was very much in thatenvironment, whereas, like I
couldn't be, so I did like Icould relate to Margo a little
bit in that aspect of like.
When you haven't been there andyou haven't seen it, it's easy
to make it bigger than what itis in your head.
You know, because I rememberbeing so young and being 19 and
(32:22):
just assuming he was like livingit up every night.
When it's like no, he was justlike stalking boobs and sweating
.
Kristen Bahls (32:33):
True, I can see how that happens.
On the feedback from the firstbook, did you really just like
take into account kind of thebeta readers feedback or do you
actually like read yourGoodreads reviews and all that
kind of stuff?
Heather Garvin (32:50):
Yeah, I'm not against reading Goodreads
reviews.
I definitely read them more inthe beginning, after a release,
Once the book has been out for awhile, I just don't care as
much, Like I think, when in thebeginning, when you want to see
how a book is received, Idefinitely care about how
readers are reacting to a storyand want to see what their
(33:13):
initial feedback and if they'reenjoying it.
And I have no problem readingreviews.
I have no problem reallyreading negative reviews.
Like it just doesn't reallyaffect me.
I mean sometimes you might getlike a scathing one.
I mean it doesn't feel great,you might get like a scathing
one.
I mean it doesn't feel great butyeah, but like usually you know
(33:38):
, I can just, you know, remindmyself that well, when I look at
my favorite books, there areone-star reviews on those books
too.
Like it's just a part of thegame, you know.
So I do like to look at reviews, especially in the beginning,
and then it kind of tapers offand I just stop checking it.
But then when I publish a newbook I'll go back and, like,
check again.
Kristen Bahls (33:53):
Well, cause, when you think about it, like for
readers, of course we're seeingreviews nonstop, or, you know,
looking at Goodreads, or we DMeach other on Instagram and talk
about like hey, what did youreally think of this book, or
whatever you know.
So we're constantly like givingeach other feedback about books
, but from an author perspective, like you know, you don't want
(34:14):
to go digging too much into that, so it's probably kind of hard
to get feedback if you don't, ifyou didn't want to read a good
reads reviews.
Besides, you know, like betareaders or talking to other
authors.
Heather Garvin (34:24):
Yeah, yeah, I think it's important.
I mean, there are some, youknow, of course, there are some
reviews that are just toxic,yeah they're not going to like
anything, Right exactly Like.
And that's another thing too,because sometimes you look and
you'll be like oh wow, someonerated the book, you know, two
stars or something.
And then you'll go and like,click on their profile and it's
(34:46):
like they have an average ratingof like 2.5.
And it's like all right.
Well then, I guess they likedmy book just as much as they
like most of the other booksthat they've read.
So it's really so subjective so, but I do think when you get
reviewers who are able toeloquently explain certain
things or like what may haverubbed them the wrong way, it is
(35:08):
helpful, helpful for sure.
Like I wrote Aiden in Crossingthe Line, who is super grumpy,
and I wanted him to be that way,like I knew from the start that
he was not going to be acharacter that everyone was
going to love, you know.
Kristen Bahls (35:22):
Yeah.
Heather Garvin (35:23):
And then with Jackson he's more of like yes,
he's snarky, yes, he has hismoments where he's kind of a
jerk, but like he's essentiallya good person.
Like he's not.
You know, he's not really.
I don't know what it may be, hejust had a little more cadence
than Aiden did yeah and.
(35:43):
but even you know, jackson, Ithink in the beginning can come
off a little too grumpy and alittle too whatever to some
readers.
And and that's okay, I mean,when I read books and the guys
are super, super sweet right offthe bat, I get overly
suspicious of them and I don'ttrust them at all.
So, like everybody's different,like I like seeing that raw,
(36:05):
real beginning.
Whereas some readers don't wantthat, they want just like the
Prince Char charming that comesin and you know it just
immediately falls hard for thegirl and will do you know,
anything for her type of thing.
Kristen Bahls (36:19):
and that's, that's not jackson no, and if
jackson, if he had come in as aprince charming type, then there
wouldn't have really been anenemies to lovers, because it
would have been like, well,what's Margo's problem Seriously
, what's her problem Versus?
You know, they both kind ofantagonize each other on purpose
(36:40):
, but not not in a way that theycan't come back from Right,
basically like, like you said,it's kind of more snark over,
like true animosity.
I mean they do they get pretty,pretty heated, but again it's
more like snarky heated, not.
(37:00):
You know I hate you and I'mnever gonna love you yeah it
turns into.
Heather Garvin (37:05):
I think they go from like really disliking each
other to kind of like the loveto hate you type of thing, like
it's almost like.
This is just how we are now,like even though they really
don't mind being around eachother, they're still going to
take jabs at each other, youknow.
And then eventually it justturns into something more.
Kristen Bahls (37:26):
Which I'll have to read the first book to find
out how.
Are there any final thoughts oranything that you would like to
share with the readers aboutthis book or kind of the duet as
a whole?
Heather Garvin (37:40):
Yeah, I mean the duet is.
I'm so proud of how this storyturned out.
When I originally wrote thefirst book Just Don't Call Me
Yours I wanted it to be astandalone.
And it wasn't until I wrotethat last chapter and then
realized where I wanted them tobe in the epilogue that I felt
(38:05):
like I was jumping way too farahead, because I knew I wanted
the epilogue to be a certain wayand it just it was way.
It was just too much.
Too much would have had tohappen between the end of the
first book and getting to thatepilogue.
So I kind of just decided that,all right, I guess I have to
(38:28):
write another book for them.
And I was really glad that somany people enjoyed the first
book so much, because I hadalready kind of committed to
writing a sequel.
So at least it made it feel soworth it.
You know that I actually hadpeople waiting for the second
half of their story, but I thinkif I would have just left it as
(38:50):
a standalone it would havealways felt a little incomplete
to me.
So I think if you like, youknow music references and Taylor
Swift and banter and angst andheartache and romantic,
swoon-worthy moments, likethey're all in there Like it's.
They're such a fun couple andthey really go the bounds of
(39:14):
showing all different aspects oftheir relationship, which is
pretty cool to follow along with.
Kristen Bahls (39:20):
I agree.
I mean, you know how fast Iread both books.
I completely agree, um, sothat's it for today.
Thank you for for listening towhen I Left Off a bookish
podcast.
You can sign up for Heather'snewsletter.
You can purchase her novelsthrough the link in the show
notes or find them on KindleUnlimited.
And don't forget, you can alsopreorder the book and get all
(39:41):
the preorder incentives.
Thank you.
Welcome back.
I'm Kristen Bahls and you'relistening to Where I Left Off, a
Bookish Podcast, and today I'mjoined by the author of the Take
What You Can series, Crossingthe Line and Just Don't Call Me
Yours Heather Garvin, and we aretalking all about her second
book in the duet.
I Just Want to Be Yours.
Thank you so much for joiningme today.
Heather Garvin (00:28):
Heather, thank you for having me.
I'm excited.
Yeah, me too.
Kristen Bahls (00:32):
Oh my gosh, I loved your book.
But before we get into actuallytalking about the book, I
always ask everyone what are youcurrently reading?
Heather Garvin (00:41):
right now, so I'm currently listening to
Business or Pleasure and I'mreally really enjoying it.
Kristen Bahls (00:52):
I listen to it too, and it's so good over audio
.
Heather Garvin (00:58):
The narrator does an amazing job.
I feel like, when it comes toaudiobooks, so much relies on
the narrator and I'm really,really enjoying it.
I really feel like, when itcomes to audiobooks, so much
relies on the narrator and I'mreally, really enjoying it.
Kristen Bahls (01:07):
I really feel like she's what I would imagine
Chandler to sound like, just inher voice and everything.
Yeah, perfect person.
Yeah, be prepared to cry.
I cried at the end of it.
You would think like onaudiobook, you know you would
have a lesser chance of crying,but I can't even remember what I
(01:28):
was doing.
Like I was doing something else, like scrubbing something while
I was crying.
So be prepared.
It's super cute, though.
Heather Garvin (01:38):
Yeah, I, I still have like five hours left, so I
still have a good chunk of thebook to listen to.
Did not think it was going tobe sad, though, so now I'm a
little concerned.
Kristen Bahls (01:51):
It's cut.
There are parts, but it'sreally not like it's.
It's very cute overall, buthave you read any other Rachel
and Solomon books, or is thisyour first?
Heather Garvin (02:01):
I don't think so .
I think this is my first, butI'm really enjoying it, so I'll
have to check out her otherbooks.
Do you have another one thatyou really like by her?
Kristen Bahls (02:09):
Um, well, I really love her YA books.
Um, she has today, tonight,tomorrow.
It's also a duet.
It actually it kind of like acouple little bits of it, the
enemies to lovers kind ofreminded me of um, of your duet,
but it's Today, Tonight,Tomorrow is the first one, and
then Past, Present, Future isthe second one.
(02:30):
So one's like when they're inhigh school, on the last day of
high school, and then the secondone is when they're in college
and they're in a long-termrelationship and they're trying
to figure it out and, like, makeit work.
Heather Garvin (02:40):
Yeah, that long distance will get you.
Kristen Bahls (02:43):
I said long-term, yeah, I meant long distance but
both, I mean honestly both, butyeah, hers are really cute.
And then, um, I have the Ex talkon my shelf.
It's on the TBR shelf up topthat I need to read next and it
sounds really cute.
It's like a radio thing andthey have to pretend to be exes
for a radio show and then theystart falling in love.
(03:05):
So, yeah, that does sound good.
That's really cute.
What's the best book that youread this year?
Have you done a lot of readingor has it been more like writing
focused?
Heather Garvin (03:17):
Mostly writing focused or beta reading for
other authors.
I feel like a lot of the stuffthat I end up reading ends up
being stuff that isn't publishedyet, you know by friends and
stuff like that.
But I did really enjoy the DeadRomantics so I have to say
that's probably so far one of myfavorite books that I've read
(03:39):
this year, because that onereally surprised me.
I just I loved it.
Kristen Bahls (03:49):
It's on my shelf.
I need to read it.
I really want to pick it up,Like it's.
It's definitely high up there.
Have you read Seven Year Slip?
I haven't.
It's one of my favorites.
Heather Garvin (03:56):
I know and I heard that one's even more
popular, so I definitely need toadd that one to the list.
Kristen Bahls (04:02):
Yeah.
And then I have, of course, anovel love story that I haven't
gotten to because you knoweveryone publishes so quickly
you can't keep up with all ofthe books, yeah, and that one
hasn't even been out that long,that one just came out.
Yeah, that one just came out acouple months ago.
Heather Garvin (04:19):
Yeah, I think so .
I remember seeing a bunch ofstuff about it.
But yeah, I'm still on.
I only read the Dead Romantics,but I did really love it.
Kristen Bahls (04:27):
Oh, good good good, because I've heard mixed
reviews, so I'm glad that youloved it.
Heather Garvin (04:31):
Yeah, I did too.
Like once, I think, I went andlooked at Goodreads.
After reading it I was likesurprised that some people I
mean it's always surprising.
I mean, when you have thousandsof reviews, obviously you're
going to have people that loveit and don't love it.
But it's always interesting tosee how different people
perceive the same book.
Kristen Bahls (04:49):
you know, I agree um on your current work in
progress.
So what's next like?
What are you working on?
Are you kind of taking a breakor have you already started
writing something else?
Heather Garvin (05:02):
so I'm deep into editing.
I'm actually wrapping up editson the Christmas book, which is
called um when the fake snowfalls, and that one I'm kind of.
It's already pretty much beenthrough betas and I'm just
finalizing and cleaning it up asmuch as I can before I send it
(05:24):
to my editor.
But I did start writing like anew idea, but then I kind of had
to put it on hold for thislaunch and then getting the
Christmas book ready.
It's just, it's a lot to craminto the end of the year.
So I haven't found a lot oftime to really work on a new
project, but I'm looking forwardto diving back into it.
(05:45):
As soon as the Christmas bookis like in my editor's hands and
I can't do anything with itanymore, then I think I'll get
back into writing.
Is it a standalone?
Into writing?
Is it a standalone?
The Christmas one?
Yeah, yeah, that one will be astandalone and I really love it.
I'm just I'm excited to sharemore about it because I'm really
(06:07):
excited.
These are older characters.
They're probably they're likein their late twenties and I've
always written very new adult.
So it was fun to kind of beable to escalate certain things
and kind of level up, you know,with just them being at a
different stage in their life.
Kristen Bahls (06:24):
Are you going to continue to write older
characters?
Is this going to be areoccurring theme, or are you
kind of just going to bounceback and forth between them,
depending on what ideas come toyou?
Heather Garvin (06:35):
Yeah, I don't know, I'm always kind of all
over the place with things.
I really love the new adultromance because there's
something so exciting about likethat first really impacting
love or that first relationshipthat's, you know, really
important and kind of dry.
It becomes like a driving forcein your life a little bit.
(06:57):
But I found that when I waswriting the holiday rom-com and
they are older, like thatbrought a whole different set of
things that I really likedabout, like writing that age
group.
So I don't know, we'll see, I'dlike to stay a little older if
I can Maybe not do like collegeagain for a little bit.
(07:19):
I think I like mid-20s,late-20s, kind of easing into
something a little different.
Kristen Bahls (07:25):
I like both.
So yeah, me too.
Either one, either one are good.
I was going to ask on the onethat you're kind of starting to
plan out Are you a pantser orare you a plotter?
How do you kind of go aboutsetting everything?
Heather Garvin (07:38):
up.
I'm a total pantser.
Honestly.
I'm trying to be better, I'mtrying to be a more intentional
pantser.
So I'm trying to like reallykind of ground myself and like,
okay, well, what do I want tohappen?
And honestly, I find tropesreally helpful with my writing.
(07:59):
Like if I can pick which tropesI want in the book, I can kind
of shape a story that caters tothat around it.
So I find that helpful.
But yeah, I'm definitely apantser and it usually makes
editing a lot of work on theback end, because then I have to
go back and fix a bunch ofthings that I didn't think
(08:21):
through, you know.
But I find that when I plot toomuch in the beginning, the
actual writing feels more likework, because I feel like all
the fun part of like figuringout where the story was going to
go is done.
I already know where it's goingto go.
Now I have to put it on paperand that feels like such a task,
whereas if I don't know wherethe story is going to go and I
(08:45):
just kind of write and figure itout, I find that I write much
faster and I have more fun withit.
So I don't know, that's justwhat I do.
Kristen Bahls (08:53):
I'm always really impressed by Panthers.
I couldn't do it.
I'd have to pull it out.
Heather Garvin (09:00):
It can definitely be daunting when you
know you send it to somebodythat you respect and they're
like, yeah, I don't think youneed this chapter or I think you
need something else here.
And then you're like, oh man,if I would have known this in
the beginning, that would havebeen helpful.
But I mean, it is what it isTrue.
Kristen Bahls (09:17):
And hey, like you said, if it helps you write a
little bit faster and kind ofget the story down, then that's
more important anyway, and youcan always go back and you know,
fix and adjust stuff.
Heather Garvin (09:28):
Yeah, there's always time for that.
Yeah, it's just how much workyou have to put into it, and
what are your deadlines?
Kristen Bahls (09:45):
So, speaking a little bit more about I Just
Want to Be Yours.
How does this story kind ofpick up where the first book
left off, without spoiling thefirst?
Heather Garvin (09:51):
one, yeah.
So the first book is a lot oflike Jackson and Margo's.
It's an enemies to lovers.
So for a good chunk of the bookthey don't exactly see eye to
eye.
But then they're kind of forcedtogether through the fact that
their best friends are dating,so they're constantly around
each other and then it isn'treally until the end of the book
(10:15):
that they finally like agree togive it a shotettiness and, you
know, whatever it may be intosomething that turned out to be
(10:42):
a very like mature, solidrelationship, even though it
does, you know, of course, haveups and downs.
Kristen Bahls (10:49):
Yeah, I mean, they have to get used to that
completely differentrelationship.
Like you said, they're so ateach other's throats for the
first book and now they're acouple, and so that's just
totally, totally two differentthings.
Heather Garvin (11:05):
Yeah, and it was .
It was tricky with the longdistance thing, but I knew I
really wanted the second book tobe long distance because I knew
I wanted Jackson to havesuccess in the band and to go on
the road and everything.
And Margo has every right tohave her separate dreams and
(11:26):
goals that she wants to pursueand so they don't always align
with what they're doing.
But I just I really likedshowing that, but it was very
difficult to write for me.
I think having the twocharacters and the two main love
interests being apart so muchbut then still trying to make it
(11:49):
feel like they're connected, umwas definitely challenging
because I didn't want it to getboring when they weren't
together.
You know, like stuff had tokeep happening.
Life goes on you know, but Istill wanted to very much keep
their relationship as, like, thecenter focus of the book.
So it was tricky, but I thinkit all worked out.
Kristen Bahls (12:11):
Yeah, and I mean that makes sense because of
course if Jackson didn't go withthe band then he would have
never been happy staying incollege and then that would have
been a whole other thing.
And then, like you said, withMargo, she's not just going to
drop everything when theirrelationship's new.
So you know, it makes sensethat yeah.
Right and it was so new.
Heather Garvin (12:33):
Yeah, it was so new in your relationship, like
it's one thing if you've beentogether for a while and then
it's like, yeah, okay, let mesacrifice this, this and this,
but when it's so, so new to justwalk away from your entire life
, like I didn't really wantMargo to do that, yeah, yeah, I
agree, and I feel like it'sprobably indicative of a lot of
(12:55):
relationships in college.
Kristen Bahls (12:58):
Most are probably long distance, so of some kind
you know whether whateverthey're doing or whatever
schools they're going to like,that's just something that is a
little bit more realistic too.
Yeah, definitely so.
I know that readers really loveit, but what are some of the
challenges of trying to writedual POV?
(13:19):
And Jackson and Margo?
They both have very distinctvoices, but how did you keep
their voices distinct as youwere writing?
Heather Garvin (13:29):
That's a good question and I wish I had a
clear cut answer for you.
I love writing the male pointof view.
I think it's so much fun.
In my book Crossing the Line, Ihad it be dual point of view
and Aiden in that book is verygrumpy sunshine.
(13:55):
So it was so easy todifferentiate them because he
was so grumpy and she was so notyou know.
So it made it very easy.
With Jackson and Margot, I feellike Jackson had a very strong
personality from the start andMargot took a little more like
fine tuning.
Like when I first wrote her shewas like way too mean, like I
(14:19):
had to like soften her.
And then, you know, over timeand over, like beta feedback of
you know, because I remember inthe beginning a lot of my beta
readers were like I don't likeMargo, like I don't understand
why Jackson likes her, becauseshe's just mean to him all the
time.
You know.
Kristen Bahls (14:38):
And.
Heather Garvin (14:38):
I was like, okay , well, I need to change some
things.
So after kind of making allthose changes, she eventually
became very distinct in my headbut, like Jackson definitely
started out like right out ofthe gate.
I knew who I wanted Jackson tobe like 100%.
And then Margo kind of took alittle more time like shaping
her into the character that sheeventually became, but yeah, it
(15:02):
ended up working out.
Keeping them separate, I mean,I, I don't know, I think the
male point of view, you justhave to think of things that
guys would and wouldn't say oryou know whatever like he's not
gonna have thoughts about, likemascara, obviously, you know,
like stuff like that, like justmaking sure that everything
(15:24):
stays true to them and yeah,their personalities just kind of
shine through on their own niceand like you said, making
completely differentpersonalities does make it a
little bit, a little bit easierthan if they're kind of similar
and then you're trying to adjust.
Kristen Bahls (15:39):
But I do think that nine times out of 10, I do
kind of like reading, readingthe male's point of view more
the MMC, because yeah, I mean, Iwas just thinking back to most
of the books I've read latelyand I'm like, yeah, I really do
like their chapters a little bitbetter.
I tend to like gravitatetowards those.
Heather Garvin (15:56):
Yeah, and my editor was helpful with that too
.
I don't remember what the exactphrase was, but I remember in
her feedback at one point shesaid it was some type of phrase
I used in a Margot chapter andshe said you've had Jackson use
this phrase in book one and shewas like, but Margo never really
(16:19):
uses this phrase.
She was like Jackson does.
So she the fact that, likeshe's an incredible editor too,
definitely helps, because shedid catch that, you know, and
she caught a few other things.
But yeah, they usually they'rejust so different that they kind
of just take on a life of theirown.
You know, that makes sense.
Kristen Bahls (16:39):
Can you tell me about some of the new characters
that are introduced in I JustWant to Be Yours that are not a
part of the first book, and kindof what role they play in the
story?
Heather Garvin (16:48):
Yeah.
So Maya and Braden are probablythe biggest ones Maya I adore.
I knew I just wanted thisbubbly, fun energy to really
liven up Jackson's life on tourand I knew I wanted her to be
kind of like bro to him.
(17:09):
You know, like I wanted her tobe like one of the guys like
that he can just like, let loosewith and just have it, be
friends.
You know, just totally friends.
I kind of liked the idea of likethe misdirect, like here's this
like hot girl with like tattoosand pink hair and, um, you
think she's going to be an issue, but and Margo thinks she's
(17:32):
going to be an issue at first,right, and Margo thinks she's
going to be an issue, but she,right, and Margo thinks she's
going to be an issue, but she'sjust so cool Like you can't help
but just love her, you know.
And then with Brayden, I tookhim.
I didn't originally plan onbringing him back, but he was in
the car in the first book whenthey left the party.
(17:54):
And Margo has this moment inthe first book where she's
sitting between Braden andJackson in the back of the car
and she's wondering why there'sthis perfectly nice guy who's,
you know, hot and put togetherand sweet and seems
well-mannered and like she justdoesn't feel anything for him.
(18:17):
And then there's Jackson on theother side, who's like rough
and abrasive and gives her ahard time and gets under her
skin but like every time theirlike knees would brush, brush,
like she would feel somethingyou know.
So I really liked the idea ofbringing him back and I wanted
him to be very much like Mattand you know, just kind of put
(18:39):
together and clean, cut and likeyou can see why they're friends
, why they work.
But then you know it's justundeniable what she feels with
Jackson and I can't compete yeah, he was a fun one to bring back
.
Kristen Bahls (18:56):
I, it took me a second and then whenever I think
you make mention to it and um,and I just want to be yours that
he was in the van, and I went,oh, he's the one from the van
and I totally forgot about thatuntil it brought it up.
Heather Garvin (19:12):
Yeah, yeah, I think Jackson even like he like
calls her out for staring at himfor so long.
Yeah, she was literally staringat him, trying to figure out
why she was not attracted to him.
And of course he doesn't see itthat way.
So yeah it just it felt verylike full circle moment just to
(19:35):
kind of bring Brayden back, andit was funny because I had a
friend, you know, and she waslike too many b names, you need
to change someone's name and Iwas like I agree, but I did not
realize that Brayden was gonnabe a character well, he, he at
least is pretty um distinctivein his personality, so I felt
like that made it a little biteasier for me to distinguish him
(19:56):
from the other b names, forsure yeah, I feel like the only
b name that's really close tohis name is like Brady, but
Brady's in the band andBrayden's not, so they're never
really together in a scene oranything like that, which that
helps that helps.
Kristen Bahls (20:13):
Yeah, they were together in a scene that I'm
like wait a minute, who's who?
But yeah, no, right Easy totell.
So do you actually have amusical background that inspired
the story, or do you just likereally appreciate music in
general?
Heather Garvin (20:31):
I have no musical background whatsoever.
My brother can play guitar andhe's super talented.
He, like taught himself off ofYouTube.
I don't know, oh, wow I don'tknow, I don't know how people do
these things.
But no, actually what inspiredthe book was.
I listened to Dave Grohl'sautobiography and I pulled a lot
(20:55):
from that, because Dave talksall about like the early stages
of being in the band and howthey were so broke and like just
the struggles of living in avan and everything like that.
And as I was listening to it Iwas just like, oh, this would be
so good as like a romance, youknow.
So that's really where I pulleda lot of the inspiration from
(21:16):
was that autobiography, and thenI just kind of shaped it into
this fictional story of Jacksonand Margo, that makes sense.
Kristen Bahls (21:25):
Yeah, they just had so many like musical debates
, you know, and so I thoughtmaybe Heather's like really
musical herself and that's howshe decided this.
I mean, I love music, yeah,listen to music, but I have no
musical talent well, I couldn'ttell, and I like how they have
(21:48):
um, of course it's more in thefirst than the second, but a
little bit in the second.
I like how, uh, margo andJackson's taste are so
completely different.
It's kind of funny to see themfight about it versus them, just
automatically liking the samebands yeah, yeah, absolutely one
of the many things that theydon't agree on.
They've got some common groundeventually.
(22:12):
Oh my gosh, that playlist thatMargot made.
Heather Garvin (22:22):
Yes, plenty of plenty of landslide on there.
Just forget it.
He loved it?
Kristen Bahls (22:30):
Are the American Thieves inspired by an existing
band or did you come up withthem on your own?
Heather Garvin (22:38):
They're really not.
I mean, I think if I had topick a band that I'd want them
to be similar to, then maybeArctic Monkeys, because I did
pull a lot of Jackson's vibefrom Arctic Monkeys but I don't
really have like an actual reallife band that I was modeling it
(23:03):
after, anything like that.
But I wanted him to have kindof that musical sound because I
believe that it's something.
A band like the Arctic Monkeysis a band that someone with
Margo's taste in music couldactually like.
You know.
So like I wanted it to bebelievable that she would like
(23:23):
Jackson's music, even though sheusually doesn't like Jackson's
type of music, you know, eventhough she usually doesn't like
Jackson's type of music.
So modeling it loosely off ofthem felt like an easy way to
kind of make that morebelievable, I guess.
Kristen Bahls (23:39):
So that's smart, Focusing a little bit more on
the romance side of things.
In your opinion, between bothbooks, what is the most romantic
gesture or scene between margoand jackson?
Heather Garvin (23:55):
it's a hard one to pick.
It is because I really love theending scene of the first book,
when you know they're at thestage and everything like that
to me feels very grand gesturelike it was like a scene that I
could imagine seeing in a movie,you know, and so when I think
(24:15):
of like a romantic gesture, Ithink of that scene, but then
the sequel obviously has a lotmore romance in it.
It's just much more intimateromance.
It's not something that's bigand on display for everybody to
see.
It's much more intimate romance.
It's not something that's bigand on display for everybody to
see.
It's much more just like thetwo of them having these quiet
moments.
(24:36):
So I'd say, either from thefirst book, the ending scene at
the concert, or the second book,probably the pool scene is.
Kristen Bahls (24:52):
Is that the one that's in um in the pre-order
incentives?
Isn't that the character artthat's included?
Yeah, yes, yeah, I love thatart.
If you pre-order, if youpre-order the book and fill out
the pre-order form, then you toocan get art from the post-pd.
Heather Garvin (25:10):
Yes, yeah, I always try to do like something
art that's a little bit steamyand then art from like a sweeter
moment too.
But yeah, I loved, uh, how bothart pieces turned out for the
pre-order incentives.
Kristen Bahls (25:26):
I already pre-ordered my copy so I'm ready
, thank you.
So how did your approach, kindof overall in writing this
second book really differ fromwriting the first one?
There are so many things thathave evolved by this point.
Heather Garvin (25:45):
Yeah, so writing the first one, I was able to be
much more of a pantser.
I didn't really need a plan.
I could see where the story wasgoing.
There was nothing boxing me inso like anything could happen.
When I was writing the sequel, Iknew certain things needed to
happen.
(26:05):
So I had to be much moreintentional and I feel like the
sequel is probably the mostplotting I've ever done.
I even had like a loose likeoutline where I plotted all
these different things thatneeded to happen from, you know,
the beginning of the book tothe end of the book, and Having
(26:27):
that made it feel like a muchslower process to write it,
because I was having to be veryintentional with each chapter
and everything like that.
So it slowed me down a lot andit took me much longer to write
it.
Plus, it's a much longer bookit's like 20,000 words longer
(26:50):
than the first one.
So I had to write more and Ihad to really follow through and
I had already set up certainthings that I couldn't change.
So it felt almost a little bitlimiting, even though it really
wasn't, because I knew whatneeded to happen and all of
those things could happen, youknow.
Kristen Bahls (27:09):
But um, and all of those things could happen,
you know.
But I did get stuck.
I got stuck and I took a break.
I wrote a Christmas book Iwasn't planning on writing and
then I came back to it, rest andI'm sure especially like that
it instead of having to continuetheir story, getting to go on a
(27:32):
completely different tangentwhere you didn't have to focus
so much on what they had done orwhat they had said was probably
a really nice break for asecond right?
Heather Garvin (27:42):
yeah, it really was.
I wrote that Christmas book sofast.
I just I sped right through itand it was the perfect break I
needed.
To go back to Jackson I thinkit was just too much time with
Jackson and Margot, like I wastoo close to it, I couldn't like
see it clearly, and I'm notused to writing series.
I didn't even really intend forthis to be a series, so I'm
(28:04):
very much more comfortablewriting standalones.
I like being able to like closethe book and be done with those
characters and then I can moveon and do something all new.
You know.
So the fact that this carriedon with the same characters and
the same storyline, it was justa very long stretch of time to
be like writing them.
(28:24):
So I think I just needed like apalate cleanser and I took a
break and I did that and then Icame back and I I felt much
better so what you're saying isthat Brayden's story is not
coming soon, right?
I don't know maybe maybe one dayI won't say, I won't say
(28:45):
definitely, because I havethought about it um, I'm just
not sure when it would happen,but it it would be fun to write
a Brayden story.
Kristen Bahls (28:57):
I, I didn't want to say which character he was
with because I felt like I wouldspoil it, but but, yeah, yeah
no I get that.
You just need a break for asecond from it before ever even
thinking about um coming back toit, but you know.
If you ever wanted to, I thinkeveryone would be really open to
(29:18):
it.
Heather Garvin (29:20):
Yeah, I have thought about it.
It's definitely something thatis possible.
You know, when people ask melike oh are you going to write a
sequel to like Make your Moveor Crossing the Line?
Like I can 100% say, no, I'mnot, but when it comes to
Brayden, maybe.
Kristen Bahls (29:38):
Good to know before I read Crossing the Line
and Make your Move.
So that way, once I get there,then I'll know okay, enjoy this
one as a standalone.
There's not another one comingRight.
Okay, enjoy this one as astandalone.
There's not another one comingRight.
Heather Garvin (30:16):
For this book.
Were there any unexpectedreactions from readers after the
release of actually the firstone that influenced, kind of how
you started writing the secondand the duet?
That's a good question, I think, margot being somewhat
indecisive or insecure.
I feel like Margot had veryvalid reasons to be that way in
the first book.
Oh yeah, but I could tell thatit was something that readers
wanted to see her grow out ofand I think once I saw that I
felt it too Like I wanted her tobe empowered by their
(30:38):
relationship and I wanted her tobe bolder.
I wanted her to be moreoutspoken.
So I really worked on Margotdeveloping and growing, based on
some of the feedback from thefirst book, because I wanted her
to be a much stronger femalecharacter than she initially was
(31:00):
.
Kristen Bahls (31:00):
Like I wanted to show that growth for her, which
is hard, especially with him andhis fame kind of growing, and
that's a totally differentelement that they probably
really didn't think that theywere gonna have to deal with
until it's there, right yeah,yeah, I mean I don't, I don't
think I could be in Margo'sshoes.
Heather Garvin (31:21):
I don't know, I don't know.
Kristen Bahls (31:23):
I don't know that would be, that would be so
different.
That would be really weird.
I don't know.
Heather Garvin (31:27):
Yeah, it would be especially weird, I don't
know.
Yeah, it would be, especiallywhen you're not there.
Kristen Bahls (31:31):
Because anything could happen.
Heather Garvin (31:33):
Yeah, yeah, and the only thing I could compare
it to, because obviously I'venever dated a rock star, but I
did around the time of my 20, Iwas dating a guy who was already
21 and he worked as like abarback, like in a downtown bar,
(31:58):
so he was very much in thatenvironment, whereas, like I
couldn't be, so I did like Icould relate to Margo a little
bit in that aspect of like.
When you haven't been there andyou haven't seen it, it's easy
to make it bigger than what itis in your head.
You know, because I rememberbeing so young and being 19 and
(32:22):
just assuming he was like livingit up every night.
When it's like no, he was justlike stalking boobs and sweating
.
Kristen Bahls (32:33):
True, I can see how that happens.
On the feedback from the firstbook, did you really just like
take into account kind of thebeta readers feedback or do you
actually like read yourGoodreads reviews and all that
kind of stuff?
Heather Garvin (32:50):
Yeah, I'm not against reading Goodreads
reviews.
I definitely read them more inthe beginning, after a release,
Once the book has been out for awhile, I just don't care as
much, Like I think, when in thebeginning, when you want to see
how a book is received, Idefinitely care about how
readers are reacting to a storyand want to see what their
(33:13):
initial feedback and if they'reenjoying it.
And I have no problem readingreviews.
I have no problem reallyreading negative reviews.
Like it just doesn't reallyaffect me.
I mean sometimes you might getlike a scathing one.
I mean it doesn't feel great,you might get like a scathing
one.
I mean it doesn't feel great butyeah, but like usually you know
(33:38):
, I can just, you know, remindmyself that well, when I look at
my favorite books, there areone-star reviews on those books
too.
Like it's just a part of thegame, you know.
So I do like to look at reviews, especially in the beginning,
and then it kind of tapers offand I just stop checking it.
But then when I publish a newbook I'll go back and, like,
check again.
Kristen Bahls (33:53):
Well, cause, when you think about it, like for
readers, of course we're seeingreviews nonstop, or, you know,
looking at Goodreads, or we DMeach other on Instagram and talk
about like hey, what did youreally think of this book, or
whatever you know.
So we're constantly like givingeach other feedback about books
, but from an author perspective, like you know, you don't want
(34:14):
to go digging too much into that, so it's probably kind of hard
to get feedback if you don't, ifyou didn't want to read a good
reads reviews.
Besides, you know, like betareaders or talking to other
authors.
Heather Garvin (34:24):
Yeah, yeah, I think it's important.
I mean, there are some, youknow, of course, there are some
reviews that are just toxic,yeah they're not going to like
anything, Right exactly Like.
And that's another thing too,because sometimes you look and
you'll be like oh wow, someonerated the book, you know, two
stars or something.
And then you'll go and like,click on their profile and it's
(34:46):
like they have an average ratingof like 2.5.
And it's like all right.
Well then, I guess they likedmy book just as much as they
like most of the other booksthat they've read.
So it's really so subjective so, but I do think when you get
reviewers who are able toeloquently explain certain
things or like what may haverubbed them the wrong way, it is
(35:08):
helpful, helpful for sure.
Like I wrote Aiden in Crossingthe Line, who is super grumpy,
and I wanted him to be that way,like I knew from the start that
he was not going to be acharacter that everyone was
going to love, you know.
Kristen Bahls (35:22):
Yeah.
Heather Garvin (35:23):
And then with Jackson he's more of like yes,
he's snarky, yes, he has hismoments where he's kind of a
jerk, but like he's essentiallya good person.
Like he's not.
You know, he's not really.
I don't know what it may be, hejust had a little more cadence
than Aiden did yeah and.
(35:43):
but even you know, jackson, Ithink in the beginning can come
off a little too grumpy and alittle too whatever to some
readers.
And and that's okay, I mean,when I read books and the guys
are super, super sweet right offthe bat, I get overly
suspicious of them and I don'ttrust them at all.
So, like everybody's different,like I like seeing that raw,
(36:05):
real beginning.
Whereas some readers don't wantthat, they want just like the
Prince Char charming that comesin and you know it just
immediately falls hard for thegirl and will do you know,
anything for her type of thing.
Kristen Bahls (36:19):
and that's, that's not jackson no, and if
jackson, if he had come in as aprince charming type, then there
wouldn't have really been anenemies to lovers, because it
would have been like, well,what's Margo's problem Seriously
, what's her problem Versus?
You know, they both kind ofantagonize each other on purpose
(36:40):
, but not not in a way that theycan't come back from Right,
basically like, like you said,it's kind of more snark over,
like true animosity.
I mean they do they get pretty,pretty heated, but again it's
more like snarky heated, not.
(37:00):
You know I hate you and I'mnever gonna love you yeah it
turns into.
Heather Garvin (37:05):
I think they go from like really disliking each
other to kind of like the loveto hate you type of thing, like
it's almost like.
This is just how we are now,like even though they really
don't mind being around eachother, they're still going to
take jabs at each other, youknow.
And then eventually it justturns into something more.
Kristen Bahls (37:26):
Which I'll have to read the first book to find
out how.
Are there any final thoughts oranything that you would like to
share with the readers aboutthis book or kind of the duet as
a whole?
Heather Garvin (37:40):
Yeah, I mean the duet is.
I'm so proud of how this storyturned out.
When I originally wrote thefirst book Just Don't Call Me
Yours I wanted it to be astandalone.
And it wasn't until I wrotethat last chapter and then
realized where I wanted them tobe in the epilogue that I felt
(38:05):
like I was jumping way too farahead, because I knew I wanted
the epilogue to be a certain wayand it just it was way.
It was just too much.
Too much would have had tohappen between the end of the
first book and getting to thatepilogue.
So I kind of just decided that,all right, I guess I have to
(38:28):
write another book for them.
And I was really glad that somany people enjoyed the first
book so much, because I hadalready kind of committed to
writing a sequel.
So at least it made it feel soworth it.
You know that I actually hadpeople waiting for the second
half of their story, but I thinkif I would have just left it as
(38:50):
a standalone it would havealways felt a little incomplete
to me.
So I think if you like, youknow music references and Taylor
Swift and banter and angst andheartache and romantic,
swoon-worthy moments, likethey're all in there Like it's.
They're such a fun couple andthey really go the bounds of
(39:14):
showing all different aspects oftheir relationship, which is
pretty cool to follow along with.
Kristen Bahls (39:20):
I agree.
I mean, you know how fast Iread both books.
I completely agree, um, sothat's it for today.
Thank you for for listening towhen I Left Off a bookish
podcast.
You can sign up for Heather'snewsletter.
You can purchase her novelsthrough the link in the show
notes or find them on KindleUnlimited.
And don't forget, you can alsopreorder the book and get all
(39:41):
the preorder incentives.
Thank you.
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