July 17, 2025 • 48 mins
Thanks to author Noel Stark for joining me to talk about her debut novel Love, Camera, Action.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome back.
I'm Kristen Balls and you'relistening to when I Left Off a
bookish podcast.
Today, I'm joined by NoelleStark, author of Love Camera
Action.
Thank you so much for joiningme today, noelle.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Oh my gosh, thank you for having me on.
I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Good to talk about romance.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Yeah, man.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Always good.
So first things first.
What are you currently readingright now?
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Okay, so I'm I'm feeling this summer is going to
be a sci-fi summer and I'm goingfrom like a someone suggested a
romance sci-fi called this Ishow you Lose the Time War.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Oh, yep, I've heard of that one.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Yeah, and so I've just started it.
It's really cool.
It's written in this reallyinteresting way where these two
kind of warring factions, whereyou're learning about who these
warring factions are, butthrough letters that they're
sending each other.
So it's a pistol story.
It's enemies to lovers, butit's also got this really
interesting sci-fi head to it.
(01:09):
So, uh, yeah, I've been readingthat.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
I love that.
Do you typically read more thanone book at once, or is it just
one at a time?
Speaker 2 (01:16):
No, I can't, I have to do the one at a time I
pretend because I find thosepeople are so smart, you know,
and they're like I'm readingfive books.
I'm like, wow, it's soimpressive.
I can't do that.
It's a skill, Do you?
Speaker 1 (01:28):
do that.
Yeah, I'm reading like sixbooks, but they're all different
genres.
Like they have to be differentgenres.
I can't read like five sci-fisor five fantasies.
I have to mix it up completelyand then I can keep up with what
the plots are.
So it has to be specific and indifferent mediums.
Like if I'm listening to oneduring the day, then I might be
(01:49):
reading one of my Kindle atnight and then I have a physical
for another.
So as long as it's likedifferent genres and different
formats, that's kind of like thekey to remembering what's going
on.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
And do you do you?
Whatever you listen to or read,is it dependent on your mood at
the time?
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Yeah, kind of both.
So I have like sometimes youknow I'll have an arc that I
need to read by a specificdeadline, but then I have to
have a romance, like before I goto sleep.
I cannot read an intensefantasy or a thriller, like I
can't sleep that way.
So I have to have a romancegoing almost kind of at all
times.
And then audio books aredefinitely almost always like
(02:26):
through the library, so they'revery mood based.
So, yes, kind of a mix betweenhave to read, want to read and
get to read.
So you know, cool, okay, neat,you never know.
You could always try itsometime.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
I will.
I will for sure.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
So what are your top three favorite rom-coms?
And I was kind of meaning this,more movies, but I mean it
could be like a rom-com book, ifthat's what comes to mind.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Okay, well, I was thinking of rom-com books, but I
could also do movies.
I mean, I've always reallyloved rom-coms, rom-com movies,
rom-com books, everything.
I think they kind of get shortshrift in a way as though
they're fluffy, but they'reactually really hard to do so in
movies.
I think my favorite rom-coms Ireally love when Harry Met Sally
(03:17):
.
I think it's kind of perfect.
There's an old 1940s moviecalled the Palm Beach Story
which is by a guy named PrestonSturgis who did all these
rom-coms at that time, like theLady Eve.
He kind of set the tone forromantic comedies in the 40s.
So it's that quick banterinnuendo splashed all the way
(03:39):
through it, and so that's myfavorite one of his.
And then the third one would belike I'm so picky about
romances, I I, I guess I'll haveto say Moonstruck.
I don't love the romanticcomedies from the 2000s, find
them a little bit shallow, likethey're fun.
(03:59):
They're fun, but I find them abit shallow, like while you were
sleeping.
I like while you were sleeping.
There's a.
There's a Goldie Hawn, steveMartin romantic comedy that
nobody talks about called HouseSitter, which is flipping
hilarious.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
I've never heard of that.
Hold on, I have to write thatdown Right, you've never heard
of it.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
It's flipping, hilarious.
I've always wanted I've gotthis idea of you know, redo,
wanted I've got this idea of youknow, redoing that story as a
novel because it's, because it'sso funny.
And then in books I would saythe Duchess Deal by Tessa Dare,
which is a historical regency,totally hilarious, so sexy.
(04:39):
Hating Game by Sally Thorne,which has been turned into a
movie, which I actually haven'tseen because I don't want it to
get in the way of the book.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
I saw the movie first and it kind of did get in the
way of the book.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah, Cause you think about those actors and you
think about what's missing, andand so I I've just decided not
to read it.
And then Alexis Hall is almostalways hilarious, but my
favorite of his is BoyfriendMaterial.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Oh, yep, nice.
Those are some really goodchoices.
It's hard to narrow it down,though, both in movies and in
books.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Yeah, because everybody's got their different
opinions and it's very fiery,like my, my stepdaughter and I
get into fights almost everyChristmas over love actually,
cause she loves love actuallyand I flip and hate it and we
like I don't like it.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
I don't like it either, thank you, I hate it so
much and I wouldn't care so much.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
But there's this huge contingent of people who really
love it, and so we goodnaturedly get into a fight about
it every Christmas.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
I love when you read a book or watch a movie and
you're like did we read or watchthe same thing?
I'm just not picking up whateveryone else seems to be
picking up.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Oh my God, I find that on book talk all the time
where people are just bananasover this book and I'm like I'll
go give it a try and I justdon't get it.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
With book talk.
It's either one way or another.
It's either really really goodand I love it.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
I'm like this is the best thing ever.
It's oh no, not not my thing,yeah, yeah, because I have had
books where I'm like, damn, I'mso glad I got this book from
book talk.
But you're right, it's one orthe other.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Hard to tell everyone's taste.
I do like that wheneverreviewers or book talk reviewers
, they'll kind of talk a littlebit about at least what they
liked or didn't like about it,because nine times out of 10, I
can kind of tell from that Okay,I think I will get on with that
.
Or sometimes I will followsomeone who I purposefully don't
like the books that they choose, and then I know if they like
(06:32):
it, I'm like, okay, I'm probablynot going to like this one.
Versus it, I'm like, oh, Ithink I will like it and it's
worked pretty well.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Oh, that's so smart, that's really smart, that's
really smart, that's reallysmart.
Yeah, I try not to leavereviews on my TikToks, uh or IDs
, because I know how hard it isto write books and to make
movies.
So, um, I, usually, whenever Ireview something, it's only when
I like it, because it's also mytaste, you know, I you know no
shade on love actually love.
Lots of people love it.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
It is their favorite movie, so clearly it's done well
.
Yeah, I know, it's just notmine.
So what can you tell me aboutyour current work in progress?
Is Love Camera Action acomplete standalone or is it
going to be an interconnectedstandalone series?
Speaker 2 (07:19):
I've always wrote Love Camera Action as a series.
Okay it's, it's sort of pitchedas a standalone.
You know, I I've always had itin my mind to to do a few other
books on it.
So I have started on the secondbook of that, and the second
book is based on the actors thatare in it.
Like the first, the first bookis, you know, about the director
(07:43):
and the director of photography, and the reason why I put it in
that world was because I'd seena ton of and read a ton of
Hollywood romances, andgenerally they are about the
actors or sometimes the writers,but I'd never seen anything
done with the crew, and so Iwanted to set it in that very
distinctive world.
Because I knew that world, Iknew the world of a set, I knew
(08:05):
the world of, you know, scriptedTV to the extent that I could
write the book, and so that'swhy I wanted to kind of go into
that new ground.
But as the book was unfurling,I was seeing a love story happen
between the actors as I wasdoing it.
So I always in the back of mymind I was like, okay, paolo and
(08:26):
Talia, like what's their dealgoing to be?
And so I'm working on that now.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Yay, that'll be really exciting.
Oh, awesome, yay, because whenI was reading that I was like,
hmm, I kind of feel like that'sa seed for something.
I was like, but maybe I'm wrong, but I don't know.
I kind of think it is.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Yeah.
Yeah, it was definitely a seedbecause I could see sort of you
know who they were and how theywere reacting to each other and
what kind of issues they wereboth dealing with and how they
could help each other out withthem.
So there's a few things thatare kind of just seeded along
the way for those two.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Yeah, and at first with those two is a little bit
rough.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Yeah, they like well, okay.
So Paolo does not hate Talia.
He's totally in love with Talia, but Talia can't stand Paolo
Like.
She's like who is this doof?
He has no talent.
I worked so hard to get hereand he just like flounced on
because he's a hot model and, um, she's so bitter about that.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Which that would be so incredibly frustrating.
For good reason, yeah, sofrustrating.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
So frustrating, yeah.
So and then he's just kind ofan arrogant douche because he's
scared.
He's scared because he doesn'tknow how to act, and he knows it
, and he knows he's screwingthings up, and so then, instead
of kind of being vulnerable, heacts like a goof.
And so it's about.
(09:48):
The second book is about himkind of shedding that and
understanding that there'sstrength and vulnerability, and
Talia learns to kind of justchill out a bit.
She's a bit too intense.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
But she's kind of had to be but fair, you know.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Yes, she has had to be.
But she's risen to a placewhere, again, it's very hard for
women in the business, handsdown no matter what you're doing
, yep, and for actresses, youhave to be absolutely perfect
all the time.
So she's learned to be perfectat everything she does, just to
succeed.
But she's kind of gotten to aplace where it's not working for
(10:22):
her anymore, like the, thestridency isn't working for her
anymore.
So she has to learn to loosenup and remember who she is, to
kind of go deeper.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
That makes sense, Kind of put down her armor a
little bit yeah exactly, exactly.
So, for those that don't know,can you tell me a little bit
more about your background infilm and television and how it's
kind of shaped the story so farand how you knew enough to be
able to write this book from theback end?
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Yeah, well, okay, so I was always a performer in high
school and in university and Iwent to theater school.
I was a singer, I was an actor.
And someone said to me theythought it was a really good
business move to shoot a shortfilm and act in it and just say,
like this is my business card,here's my acting.
(11:08):
And, for whatever reason, Ididn't like the idea of being in
a short film.
But I liked the idea ofshooting a short film and so I
shot this short film.
That went through the roof interms of success.
It went to Sundance, it went toTIFF.
It was insane and it kind oflaunched me into this new world
that I wasn't expecting.
And so then from there, Iworked on scripted shows.
(11:31):
I worked at the very bottom, Iwas a production assistant, I
was a locations assistant, Iworked in casting.
Like I said before, I was anactor, I was a singer, I did
voiceover work, I did, and thenI was writing, and then I was
producing and I was directingand I did all sorts of different
shows.
I'm from Canada and because thebusiness is much smaller in
Canada than it is in LA, and so,as a result, I had to do a lot
(11:55):
of different things just to kindof survive.
So I was working in scriptedbut then I was also working in
reality TV.
I did a ton of reality TV inpretty much any genre you can
imagine, like ghost shows,renovation shows, true crime,
like all of it, food shows.
I knew that world very well andI, you know, I was actually
(12:17):
going through a hard time in mylife at a point and I started
reading romance novels becauseit was a safe space and it kind
of helped me engage my mind inthis soft, fun, sexy space,
while in the back of my mind Iwas trying to figure out how to
get myself out of this toughspot that I was in in my life.
(12:38):
And as I was reading all theseromance novels, I just got the
bug and I was.
I was like I wonder if I canwrite one of these.
I started writing it and therelationship between the
director, who's a woman, and thedirector of photography, who's
a man, came fairly quickly to me, because it's a very charged
(12:58):
relationship.
When you're working on a TVshow, you know people think that
the director is the head of theset, but in TV it's like it's
the producer First of all.
The producer does everything,but the director just comes in
and does a couple of episodesand then leaves.
The director of photography,who does all the camera stuff,
is in charge of all the visualstuff, for the TV show is to
(13:21):
kind of report, quote, unquoteto the director.
But really they're on the samelevel and they have to figure
out a way to work together onthese shows.
So the director of photographyis on the whole time, the
director's only on for a coupleof episodes.
And callie, who's been broughtin at the last moment because
the other director was fired forsaying some unfortunate things
(13:44):
about the Me Too movement.
They've had to fire him.
Pr moved to bring in a woman,but she's a bit of a newbie and
she wants to kind of put hermark on the show.
And Jory, who's the director ofphotography, does not want a
newbie in there, he just wantsto get through his day.
He's happy that the otherdirector was fired.
He's very pro-woman in thedirector's seat but he's just
(14:07):
not interested in a new personcoming in and changing things.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Fresh ideas are a no for him at first.
Fresh ideas, yeah, no freshideas, please Like.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
I don't have time for them.
So they spark right off the topand it's an enemies to lovers
sort of romance.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Definitely starts out as enemies, for sure.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Yeah, for sure, and so sorry.
So just to answer your question.
So I wanted to set it in thatworld because I knew it quite
well and I didn't want tobecause it was my first book
that I had written.
I wanted to focus on thecharacters and the love story.
I didn't want to focus so muchon the world.
I didn't want to spend a lot oftime researching or building a
world so that I could focus onthese other things.
And so then that's why I set itin the TV industry.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
And kind of random aside, but whenever you were
building the novel, did youalmost act like the Demon was a
real show that you were workingon?
Because the way you describe,like the set pieces and stuff,
I'm like I feel like shebasically built the Demon as if
it were a real show and she wasat work and then just used it
for the book.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Yeah, well, that's, that's something that brings
specificity to to the writing,right.
So I wanted to do it.
I wanted them to be shootingthe show the Demon, which is
kind of like a Buffy kind ofshow, right, like, I grew up
with Buffy and I loved it somuch and so I love those shows.
So I wanted to kind of havethem work on that type of show.
But as you're going through thenovel, you're like, okay, well,
(15:35):
they need to have a fight.
Where are they going to have afight?
And they're like, oh, next dooris like the health set.
So this is what a health setmight look like.
Or this is like the boardroom.
Like what does the boardroomlook like?
Or a bar, or wherever they are.
So you have to kind of buildthe show around it.
And then you have to say, okay,well, why are they in a bar?
Because they're doing this forthe show.
(15:56):
So you are kind of building asecondary story at the same time
.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Wow, that's really intricate, but I'm sure it made
it easier, once you had that allbuilt out, to go.
Okay, this is kind of how itgoes, and at least I have it
built and then I can just decidewhat things are happening and
what part of the show is goingon, and all that.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Yeah, I mean I was doing it as I went.
I was very much pantsing thatentire thing.
So, yeah, that's hard.
I don't know that I would dothat again.
Now that I'm writing otherbooks it's a little bit easier,
but it was sort of on the flythat I was building that world.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
But I mean, I'm sure the first one is kind of just
getting your feet on the ground,figuring out what you want to
do, and then, of course,subsequent books are what you,
you know, know how to do fromthere.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Yeah, you become a little bit more adept at
understanding what's requiredand how you, as a writer, can
achieve those things.
So like, for example, I knewthat I write best in the
mornings.
If I try writing at night, mybrain is like out to lunch.
Or I knew that I would have tosteal time from this place to
write If I was going to getanything done.
(17:02):
I'd have to write in front ofmy kids taekwondo class, you
know.
So you, you just kind of learnhow how to do it a little bit
better.
I don't know that it getseasier.
Writing like the actual writing.
I don't think it gets easier.
It's always terrible becauseyou're terrified and you're like
makes sense, but the process ofit.
That's easier, makes sense, butthe process, I think that's
(17:24):
easier.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
So what is one reality of being on just a TV or
film set that you think peoplewould be?
Speaker 2 (17:34):
surprised to learn that maybe they didn't realize.
It's so boring yeah.
It's so boring.
It's all on the shot list,right?
Yes, yeah, exactly.
It's really like hurry up andwait.
There's moments of intenseactivity and then there's so
much waiting and it's so preciseand it's so.
I give to think of so manythings.
So I think people would like itall is presented like it's very
(17:57):
glamorous and in some ways itis but most of the time it's
just pretty boring.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Makes sense.
I mean you have to wait forthem to set everything up, to
get to the action, to actuallydo anything.
Yeah, just snap your fingers.
Yeah, exactly.
Oh, my gosh, which character doyou think would be the most fun
or the most difficult to workwith on a real life set?
Who would you want by your side?
Speaker 2 (18:19):
I think the one you always want by your side is Dan,
who is the AD, he's theassistant director, he's the guy
who fixes everything and who ismanages everything and he's
just such a calm kind of dadlike presence that you're just
happy that he's there and he'sfine and he's looking after you.
(18:42):
But he's also very disciplinedand will give you that tough
love.
So I think Dan's the guy thatyou always want to have around
Like the most difficult, forsure, is Paolo Like he's such a
pain.
He's such a pain and he's soarrogant and he's like says all
these dumb things and and you'rejust like, oh, this guy.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
True, I know, and you kind of have to pander to him
because otherwise he'll throw afit and call Howard yeah,
exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
So I think that would be those characters make sense.
I also.
I should say I love Melanie too.
I think Melanie's really fun.
She's like the producer and shecomes in.
She's just a whirlwind ofactivity.
She's like the producer and shecomes in.
She's just a whirlwind ofactivity.
She's very smart and she'sreally on it, and she has to
clean up a lot of messes.
So I really like Melanie too.
I hope Melanie gets her ownbook at some point.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Ooh is that a possible teaser?
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Possible teaser of a Melanie book?
Speaker 1 (19:33):
yeah, Yay, if Love Camera Action were a Pinterest
board or some kind of mood board, what things would be on it?
Speaker 2 (19:40):
I have such a problem with Pinterest boards and mood
boards I like really.
I'm so in awe of people who canmake these things because I'm
so bad at them.
I'm like I don't know a pictureof a camera.
I don't know.
Lavender.
I don't know, oh bad at it.
(20:01):
So when I'm looking at thatquestion, I'm like I don't know
what I'm interested for, whichis maybe a bad thing, but so I
honestly don't know how toanswer that question.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Sometimes they're hard to visualize.
It just just depends if you canfind the exact image?
Have you had readers start tokind of send in like fan art yet
?
Speaker 2 (20:21):
No, because I haven't been.
I haven't been paying attentionto reviews or those kinds of
things.
Okay, because I'm superdelicate at the moment.
So I get that.
I mean I'm, I'm really happywhen people like it, but if I,
if I get a sniff of somebody notliking it, I'll, I'll just like
kind of wither away.
So I have to build up my toughskin a little bit more.
Do you do load boards?
(20:49):
Yes, sometimes, sometimes Iwill for sure.
Yeah, what do you?
Speaker 1 (20:50):
put on them Like, where do you go to look for
stuff?
Well, um, it depends on if ifI'm going to put something like
on social media, then it has tobe copyright free, of course.
So then I'll go to Pexels, whichis like the best you know
copyright free image source andwith that it's kind of like you
have an image in your head andyou're probably not going to
find exactly what you're lookingfor, but at least you can find
(21:13):
something kind of close.
So I'll kind of use that and,honestly, I'll look at Instagram
and kind of see what otherpeople are doing.
And, honestly, I'll look atInstagram and kind of see what
other people are doing andsometimes they might have, like
you know, a paper element inthere or some kind of really
cool vignette over top orsomething that gives me an idea.
That kind of like starts me offof, okay, maybe I want it to
look like this or you know, justkind of anything I see in my
(21:33):
head as I'm reading the book.
I go with Um and.
I especially remember that, likeblue hell scene that they had
to switch, so you know, theremight be a little bit of that
mixed in with like the actualthe demon scenes or like some
leather from that corset stufflike that so I'll kind of take
that and start like building thebackground and then, if I can
(21:54):
find an image on pexels, it'sfunny because you'll type in
like hot guy or like guy withbrown hair, and then you never
know what you're gonna get like.
You might get a dad next to atoddler and you're like, uh, not
really what I was thinking here.
So, yeah, it takes somefinessing, but if you're going
on pinterest because you're justtrying to use it, you know to
um like for yourself.
then you can always findliterally exactly what you're
(22:16):
looking for or didn't even knowyou needed it, and it does make
it easier from there.
But yeah, so Pinterest is kindof like the cheat hack, but then
you're going to get yourexpectations so high that you're
not going to be able to findthat for pixels if you're trying
to actually you know, post itout into the world.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
I think that's why I usually give up, because I go
and I look and I'm so fussy andspecific and I'm like can't find
exactly what it is.
But those are good tips I'lllike.
I'll check that out.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
I have a couple of author friends that they
literally just decided to startdrawing their own stuff Cause
they're like I cannot even findit.
So they taught themselves howto draw and they're like I'm
just going to drop myself.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Oh my God, that's so smart.
That will not be me.
I'm terrible.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
I can't draw, it's not my thing.
I'll just keep like croppingPinterest or or Pexels images
and hoping for the best.
Yeah, exactly what is yourfavorite personality trait when
related to Callie and Jory?
Speaker 2 (23:18):
The thing I like about Callie and I think I wish
I was more like this, becauseyou know I really, I really love
this about her is that she,when she gets an idea, she
really sticks to her guns, likeshe really says no, this is the
idea we have to go through, andshe has a lot of doubt around it
(23:39):
.
She wonders if maybe she shouldrelax, but she, she believes in
herself enough to really fightfor what she believes in and
finds different ways to make itwork.
Like I think that's that's whatI aspire to personally.
Her, I mean like you can go toofar and you know, just listen
(23:59):
to your own ideas.
But I think Callie's trying tomake the balance of those two
things.
And then in Jory, what I reallylove about Jory is that he he's
steeped in this male worldthat's got a lot of toxic
elements and he had some ofthose toxic elements, but he is
aware enough to know how tolisten and to change.
(24:23):
And that was something that Ireally wanted to explore was
that he gets these sort ofepiphanies where he's like oh my
gosh, I'm the problem here, I'mthe one that needs to fix it,
I'm the one that needs to learn,and I think that's really a
valuable trait in men yeah, ohyeah, in anyone.
But you know, like I think,learning to listen to other
(24:47):
people instead of just alwaysexpecting things to go the way
that you've always done, mom, isa really valuable trait.
So that's what I really loveabout Jory and it's essentially
what makes him achieve love atthe end is that he learns all
that stuff and he's able to toaccept love into his life in
that way and I think there's onepoint where Jory says something
(25:08):
like and I realized that I wasjust being crabby because I
didn't want to do something newand I was like, yep, that's,
that's about what it is.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
And he taught that in himself, cause he's like I'm
literally being crabby becauseshe's a female, because I don't
want to learn how to talk to her, because it would be something
new Because it's something new.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
And I think you know, I think that's a trait that we
all sort of have it's very hard,especially when you get older,
to do something new, like Inever did social media, ever
nothing.
No part of social media was Iever in.
But I had to start doing itbecause of the book and I was so
bitter about it.
I was like I don't want tolearn this new thing.
(25:50):
You know, even though it's notnew at all, it's like not new,
but it was new to me.
And uh, it's really hard tolearn something new because you
feel stupid, you feel foolish,you feel like you're not smart
enough to wrap your mind aroundit.
You don't understand why it'sso easy for everybody else.
And Jory really has that momentwhere he's like I have to learn
(26:11):
something new and I betterlearn something new, or I'm
going to be left behind or I'mgoing to be the one who's the
toxic one on this set, and thatcan't happen.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
And it's kind of crazy how Callie course corrects
so well, like in the middle ofa scene, because I can't imagine
how hard that is, because she Iknow that Joy said like she
makes notes and stuff but he'llmake a suggestion and she'll go
oh, let's just move the camera,let's just do this like with a
pepper grinder or any of thatkind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Yeah, yeah yeah, and I think that's the beauty of
working in TV too is that youhave to be uber prepared.
But if inspiration hits, thenyou have to be able to course
correct and again that goes backto listening In that way you're
listening to what's happeningin the image or you're listening
to what's going on with theactors and to be a good director
you have to be constantlylistening in that way.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
As we've kind of talked about, there are a lot of
heavy topics in the book thatare also you know they're
balanced with more of the funand the romance.
So how do you kind of strikethat balance of keeping it light
and fun but then also havingsome of the depth and deeper
messages that are prevalent inthe book?
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Yeah, that's really hard.
It's really hard because it isa romantic comedy.
It's supposed to be fun, it'ssupposed to be light, but I find
that if you don't havesomething weighty to it, it
doesn't have like it's toofluffy, like you'll forget about
it.
You know Like you want to beable to learn something or think
(27:40):
about something that'sdifferent.
You know so.
But because of the romanticcomedy, you don't want to get
into huge trauma.
So, like you know, both of them,callie and Jory, have a lot of
difficulty in their backgroundfor various reasons, and you
want to know that.
So you understand why they'reacting the way they are.
(28:00):
Like, jory's a bit of a jerk atthe beginning, but you need to
know why, like, why is he a bitof a jerk?
Well, he's going through thisvery difficult health scare that
you know is connected to hismom, who died when he was young,
and so I think anybody would bea jerk in that situation.
You know why is Callie socontrolling on the set, in terms
(28:22):
of she feels like she needs todo everything?
Well, it's because she her momwas had some mental issues and
she had to look after her littlesister and make sure that she
and she and her mom and theirsister ate.
So you know, you have to kindof go back into those darker
things to understand why theyare the way they are and then
(28:44):
they become real people.
So you don't spend a ton oftime on the trauma, because
that's a different book, but youneed it to to to really feel
like these are real people andhopefully that does that.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
And not only does it kind of give you something to
relate to, but I guess the otherthing is or at least for me,
with reading romance novels ingeneral like sometimes I think
seeing in both characters' headsor POVs as the story's going
along almost kind of makes me alittle bit more empathetic,
maybe in real life, Like, ohokay, so if someone was acting
(29:17):
like a jury, well, maybe theyhave something else in their
past that you don't really thinkabout, that they're walking in
with that interaction that youkind of get to see in real time
in a book, Because of course inreal life, unfortunately you
don't get to hear into.
You know, everyone's thoughts.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's really smart.
I think you know I love doublePOV books because it does give
you that insight.
I read single POV books but Idon't love it because I do
really want to hear from theother person's perspective, and
usually it's the woman'sperspective.
I've read some male POVromances which I think are
(29:51):
really fun, like cause they're abit rare, they are, you know, I
like the both because I like to, I like to hear what both of
them are thinking, because youknow so I heard this story on
the radio about a mom of anautistic kid and she was in a
grocery store and her kid wasjust having a meltdown in the
(30:12):
aisles of the grocery store andshe was trying to figure out.
Like she was at her wit's end.
She was trying to figure outhow to, how to help her child.
You know, calm down.
And some random parent walkedby and said get your kid under
control, like it was her fault.
And it was just this idea oflike hey, random parent, you
(30:34):
have no idea what is going onwith this parent or this kid.
Like, keep your judgy ways outof it.
But if you took a moment, asyou said, you know with Jory, if
you took a moment to kind ofthink about what that person is
going through, then maybe youwon't be so harsh and judgy.
That said, if a person's beinga jerk, you don't have to put up
(30:54):
with that.
That's true, very true.
You know, I do sometimes thinklike, as women, we think, oh,
he's dark and moody becausethere's something deep going on,
and sometimes they're justjerks.
So you just have to, like you,take the moment to say, okay,
maybe he's a jerk because ofthis and this, but that's not my
responsibility to make him feelbetter.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Very, very good point .
At least Jory always walkshimself back or apologizes and
kind of makes it known to herthat he does have redeeming
qualities, instead of justkeeping it all in his head yeah,
yeah, and that's very importantfor him and I think that's
that's one of his good traitstoo is that he takes
responsibility for when he doessomething wrong and what song do
(31:36):
you think best represents lovecamera action?
And did you have something kindof on repeat as you were
writing?
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Okay, so much like Pinterest boards, songs I'm very
, very fussy about.
I was a singer, I was amusician, so I have like very
deep feelings about songs.
So I didn't have I didn't havea song that was connected to it,
but I list what I was listeningto.
It a lot was was Krung Benradio.
Do you know Krung Ben?
Listening to it, a lot was.
Was Krungben radio.
Do you know Krungben?
Do you know this band?
(32:03):
Okay, they're like a, they'relike a Thai funk band from Texas
and they're very like they'revery hip at the moment, like
they're very cool and hip.
And so it's like the.
It's not very many lyrics, butit's like that kind of super
groovy music and if you go onSpotify and listen to the radio,
then you hear a whole bunch ofstuff that's really groovy.
So I was listening to a lot ofthat.
(32:24):
But also I have to be listeningto something when I'm writing
or my mind will wander, but I'mso specific in that moment of
what that could be.
So sometimes it could be forestsounds, or it could be rain, or
it could be campfires orwhatever.
And then sometimes it's likeemo music or sometimes it's like
that dark academia, classicalor whatever.
(32:46):
So I have to be listening tosomething that will occupy my
mind enough to keep it on track,but not be so cool and fun that
I'll just want to listen to themusic.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
True, that makes sense, and it sounds like you
tend to kind of lean towardsthings that are less lyric,
heavy.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Yeah, the second I get into lyrics.
Yeah, I can't, I can't.
I just want to listen to thelyrics and start, you know,
dancing or like crying orwhatever, whatever the mood
might be, I can see how it'd behard to focus on the words
coming out of you know the songand then also trying to type new
words, and it's like wait aminute, like to type new words
and it's like wait a minute,like your brain can't, yeah,
yeah, I can't, I can't do.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
It makes sense.
I know lauren roberts who umwrote, powerless, that whole
trilogy.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
She listens to pirates of the caribbean, the
soundtrack, like on repeat,because she can't listen to
words either yeah, that makessense, because that movie music
is supposed to be background,like that's the whole point of
it.
So it it's.
It's engaging enough enough,and plus she writes a lot of
action stuff, that's true, soscores make sense, yeah, yeah.
(33:46):
It's very invigorating in thatway.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Which romance tropes are included.
We talked a little bit aboutenemies to lovers and how did
you kind of put your own spin onthem, because it's kind of hard
to put your spin on all thetropes, oh.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
God, yeah, I know I love tropes.
I love them, but it issometimes hard to find what the
spin is In love.
Camera action, like I said,it's enemies to lovers.
It's grumpy sunshine.
It's also forced proximitybecause they have to work
together.
But they're also in a studio,which means they're working 12,
(34:21):
14, 16 hours a day with eachother in this enclosed space
that's completely cut off fromthe rest of the world.
There's no time to do anythingafter work.
They're even in the samebuilding because they've been
put up in the same condobuilding, because neither of
them live in Atlanta.
So there's a forced proximitything, and that would be the
twist.
I think what twists on tropescome from the characters and the
(34:43):
situations.
So the twist on the forceproximity instead of them being
stuck in a cabin somewhere oryou know, like on a ship,
they're at work, like, and theirwork forces them to be together
all the time.
And it's just the nature of thework the enemies to lovers like
.
What do they fight about?
The spin is they're fightingabout the creativity of what's
(35:04):
going on set.
So their various approaches onhow to make this show is why
they spark and it's also,eventually, what makes them work
together so well.
So then, that dovetailstogether like that the reason
for the enemies becomes thereason for the lovers, you know
oh.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
I like that.
It kind of they harmonizeeventually.
Just take a second.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
They harmonize eventually.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's kind of like youknow the various when you look
back into your character'strauma and the backgrounds.
It's usually dovetails wherethey're sort of learning the
same thing.
And with Callie and Jory it'sabout letting go of control.
So Jory has to let go ofcontrol that he can't protect
people from his health scare andthat he shouldn't be protecting
(35:46):
people.
He should be bringing themcloser to him.
And Callie's always controllingeverything because she's always
had to control everything.
So, yeah, they generallydovetail and that's how you get
your spin on the tropes.
I think that Grumpy Sunshine isjust Grumpy Sunshine and that's
how you get your spin on thetropes.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
I think the grumpy sunshine is just grumpy sunshine
there really are.
Yeah, that's one that you can'treally mix up.
But I like, on the forcedproximity, that it's the same
workplace.
That's my favorite kind, versuslike one cabin or one bed.
I like the forced workplace orlike they're in a road trip or
something, where they're likestuck together and they have to
interact, whether they like eachother or not.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, I love, I love the forcedproximity.
Is there any tropes that youdon't like?
I'm always interested in thisquestion.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
I don't like accidental pregnancy.
Um, I really don't.
Yeah, I don't.
I mean, I know there aren't alot of people that like it, but
again it's kind of like I don't.
An author can change my mind.
So even though I don't love acouple of them, like second
chance, I've been kind of iffyon um.
I didn't get it for a while andI would read it and be like why
(36:51):
would you ever give him anotherchance?
Like he already proved that hecan't handle you.
Why would you go back?
But, uh, books like the ex-fowsby Jessica Joyce or um, I'm
trying to think of anotherreally writing that down second
chance, oh yeah, oh my gosh.
Jessica Joyce, whoo, her banteris like next level.
But anyway, yeah, that one manthat changed my mind, that
(37:14):
honestly kind of changed my mindon second chance.
Oh, even, uh, lila Sage, wildand Wrangled, that one is also
Second Chance and it alsochanged my mind.
So you know, second Chance isnot my favorite.
Accidental Pregnancy is not myfavorite.
Um, depends on the age gap.
I'm a little bit iffy.
I think I don't love wheneverhe's older and she's younger,
(37:37):
because I just feel like that'sbeen done so many times that I'm
a little bit like okay, I roll,sure, whatever.
But again, it depends on how bigit is and if it really affects
them or not.
That kind of thing.
I'm trying to think if there'sany others that I don't love.
Um, marriage of conveniencehasn't been my favorite but
(37:59):
there are a couple that havechanged my mind.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Okay, what don't you like about marriage of
convenience?
I?
Speaker 1 (38:05):
just feel like most of the time the reason why
they're getting in the marriageis kind of bland and it might be
like more of a fake datingreason than a marriage reason.
But you know, for some reasonthere's some like goofy random
thing that escalates it tomarriage of convenience versus
just fake dating.
(38:26):
So I feel like half the timemarriage of convenience probably
could have just been fakedating, and then I would have
liked it better because it'slike.
I don't know the thought of youagree to this and you don't know
this person and you'reliterally bound by marriage to
them, versus just you're fakedating them.
You might not like them for now, and then your feelings are
going to change, so I thinkthat's kind of what stops me a
(38:47):
little bit.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
Yeah, I think marriage convenience generally
only works in historicalsbecause that was like a fact
that happened all the time,whereas you know contemporary,
sometimes you see it with mobstories and I'm like really you
know, I'm like okay, but yeah,that's a good point.
I I don't love second chanceromances because I find them
(39:10):
really sad, like I don't likehow they've broken up.
Sometimes it's because of theirparents or there's some sort of
thing going on with society andthey wasted all this time they
could have been together andthen they have the second chance
.
So I find it a bit too hard onmy heart to deal with the time
that has been lost.
But I was speaking to someonethe other day and they said but
(39:33):
you know, when second chanceromance really works is when the
characters have changed so thatthey now can accept the love
that was there.
So they've had to go throughthis journey in order to to
become better, more maturepeople so that they could
actually have a love in theirlife.
And I was like, oh okay, allright.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
That could work Well, now that you say that the
ex-files and Wild and Wrangleddo a really great job of that.
So that makes sense, that makesmore sense of why I liked those
a little bit better.
All right Cool.
Which tropes are your favorite?
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Well, enemies to lovers.
It's a bit boring, everybodyloves that, but enemies to
lovers Really good.
I love.
Opposites attract.
I'm like a little bit out onfriends to lovers.
That's my favorite.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
Is it I?
Speaker 2 (40:17):
sometimes see it work really well and sometimes I'm a
little bit like.
What I find is often it's justone person's pining after the
other and they just haven'tnoticed yet, but I do like that
one.
Yeah, I think those.
What about you?
What are your favorites?
Speaker 1 (40:31):
Friends to lovers.
Specifically, I love childhoodfriends to lovers because I feel
like that's where it makes themost sense.
Yeah, cause most of the timethey're just nervous because
that's not what they've knownbut they've loved each other.
Basically the whole time theyjust felt like they're kind of
too far gone to make a move.
So that you know like I feellike that one makes the most
sense.
But it's hard to find goodfriends to lovers, like really,
(40:53):
really hard.
I feel like I spend yeah most ofmy time trying to fight them.
And then you know when it hitsyeah, it hits um, and then I do
love enemies to lovers of coursetoo and then forced proximity
and fake dating are probably myother two other two favorites
that are just kind of they'rejust good, like if, if it has
one of those four, it's, it'sprobably I'm gonna like it.
(41:14):
Yeah, I, I has one of thosefour, it's probably I'm going to
like it?
Speaker 2 (41:16):
Yeah, I do like Marriage of Convenience when
it's historical or sci-fi.
Like it does work in sci-fi too, because it's the same thing.
It's like a prince needs tomarry somebody yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
Suspension of disbelief is easier in a sci-fi,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
It's way easier and so it's kind of fun because
they're getting to know eachother.
But there's usually some sortof intrigue going on and then
you have to wonder if they'resleeping together and how that's
going to work.
Like the Duchess deal is amarriage of convenience and it's
set up really, really well.
Like the Duke needs a wife andshe needs to get out of poverty,
(41:54):
so they're both very practicalabout it, but there's just an
instant chemistry between themboth and it's really fun.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
Tropes are the best.
They are the best.
I love them.
They're fun to talk about.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
They're fun to talk about.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
yeah, Is there anything else that you would
like readers to know?
Speaker 2 (42:10):
I don't know.
I'm very curious about whatpeople always pick up from the
book, like what intrigues them,like what I sometimes ask what
they didn't like about it, if Itrust them to make a understood,
like an understanding, you know, critique, and so I'm always
kind of curious about that like,and what people pick up on is
(42:31):
so interesting, like what theirfavorite scene was or what they
thought seen what scene worked.
So I'm always curious aboutthat.
So if anybody wants to contactme and tell me that stuff, like
have at it.
I'm a.
I'm on Insta and on Tik TOK atauthor Noelle Stark and yeah,
like that's, I'm alwaysinterested.
Like you clearly read the book,like people.
(42:51):
Sometimes I come onto podcastsand the people haven't read the
book and that's cool because ittakes time to read books.
But like I'll ask you what wasthe?
What was the thing that youthought was interesting in the
book?
Speaker 1 (43:02):
Like that you wasn't, that you weren't expecting
maybe I feel like I kind ofwrote Jory off a little bit in
the beginning.
I was like I don't like him, Idon't like him, and then I
wasn't expecting him to changemy mind.
To be honest, I was like Idon't know about him and then,
and then he kind of slowly did,but he was growing in a really
(43:25):
subtle slow way, which I liked.
Cause if it hit me over thehead with like I had a magical
epiphany, then I would be likemaybe not, but yeah, I, jory
probably kind of came out ofleft field and surprised me the
most, cause I like Kelly fromthe jump, but it was Jory that I
already knew.
I'm like I don't know about him, I don't, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
And you're not in the minority there.
Like it's really interesting tome, a lot of people were like
didn't like Jory off the top,and I was thinking about that,
like what does that mean?
And would I change anything?
And you know, maybe I mightsoften them a bit off the top,
but the thing is with enemies tolovers.
You need to read, they have to.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:03):
So you have to know why Callie doesn't like him.
Like often I read enemies tolovers and I'm like they're just
kind of being childish witheach other, like that's really
all that's going on.
Or, you know, their familiesare fighting.
So it's like a Romeo and Julietsituation.
But with enemies to lovers youhave to show exactly why, why
(44:24):
there is conflict there.
And so I kind of took a risk tomake Jory hard to be with,
because that and you know, likea lot of people on set are hard
to be with.
But then you know, I was likeokay, but he has to make this
journey so that he's moreredeemable.
And when, when I do bring Joryback in the second book and he
sort of becomes friends withPaolo because he's also kind of
(44:46):
a jerk to Paolo, right, likeyeah, he writes him off
instantly.
Jory writes Paolo off instantly, much like readers might write
Jory off like instantly.
And Jory begins to think, oh myGod, am I wrong?
Like should I not have writtenhim off?
Like was I missing somethinghere?
And so then his journey.
I'm glad that it was subtle,because it was meant to be
(45:08):
subtle, so that it didn't feellike it was this sudden thing,
like you said, like it was anepiphany that came out of
nowhere, because then youwouldn't believe it, right?
Speaker 1 (45:18):
yeah so yeah, you're not in the minority there well,
I mean at least with jory, likeat least we get his perspective
the whole time.
So we know that, even though,like it's understandable why
callie perceives him the waythat she does, because obviously
his actions, like whenever heum, this really isn't a spoiler,
but whenever he doesn't saysomething and just lets it slide
(45:42):
and everyone else on the crewinsinuates it as one way and
kind of lets Callie take thefall for something that really
wasn't her, then it makes sensewhy she wouldn't like him for
doing things like that.
But we know at least his innerthoughts and feelings, so we
know that he's feeling guiltyabout it and so it makes it
easier for him to be redeemed.
(46:04):
Yeah, versus, if I didn't havethat perspective, I'd be like,
yeah, I just I can't get over it.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
Yeah, exactly, and he does feel guilty about it and
he's in a tough spot because ifhe comes out and says it was his
fault for doing this thing,then he would lose the chance of
the work opportunity that he isbeing offered.
So he's balancing this thing ofdoing the right thing but also
getting the job opportunity thathe wants and he's like, okay,
well, what's the right thing todo?
(46:30):
It doesn't take him.
I think it doesn't take him toolong to come to the
understanding of what the rightthing is to do.
But I think it doesn't takethem too long to come to the
understanding of what the rightthing is to do.
But I think it feels longbecause it's like I really love
writing scenes that take over,or like lots of stuff what takes
over an entire day.
So I might write three or fourchapters that just happen in one
day and it feels like it's beenweeks because so much has been
(46:52):
gone on and then the personunderstands what they should do,
but it's at the end of the day,but it's at like four chapters
later, you know.
So it's interesting just to seethat, as a writer, like people,
like your reaction and whatthat might change in how I deal
with characters later.
So that's the value of hearingwhat people think.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
True, that makes sense, that it would make it
easier, and especially goinginto paulo and talia's book,
then that way you know, you kindof know moving forward and when
.
Speaker 2 (47:19):
When that book starts , you know paulo's sort of
already hot, like he's beginningon his epiphany because he's
had, he's been a jerk in thebook before.
Speaker 1 (47:27):
Yeah, so how that went.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
It didn't work well it didn't work well for him.
It doesn't.
Usually it's just like don't ajerk.
Speaker 1 (47:37):
That should be a life motto on a bumper sticker.
Speaker 2 (47:39):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's fair for anyone.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
Well, thank you so much for your time today.
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
It was really fun.
And it was really fun talkingabout romance with a fellow
romance lover.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
Oh yeah, as you can tell by my bookshelf, I read it
a decent amount.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
Yeah, it's great, and you have a Catherine center
book back there.
Speaker 1 (47:59):
Yes, oh, I have a Catherine center section.
I have her entire back list.
I have read all of her books.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
Oh my gosh.
Okay, I better get on that then.
Speaker 1 (48:09):
Oh yeah, I can recommend a couple.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
Okay, Like when we get off line.
I want to on here that's it fortoday.
Speaker 1 (48:16):
Thanks for listening to where I left off a bookish
podcast.
You can visit noelle's site andfollow her on social media,
which will be linked in the shownotes, and, of course, you can
purchase her novel anywherebooks are sold.
Welcome back.
I'm Kristen Balls and you'relistening to when I Left Off a
bookish podcast.
Today, I'm joined by NoelleStark, author of Love Camera
Action.
Thank you so much for joiningme today, noelle.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Oh my gosh, thank you for having me on.
I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Good to talk about romance.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Yeah, man.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Always good.
So first things first.
What are you currently readingright now?
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Okay, so I'm I'm feeling this summer is going to
be a sci-fi summer and I'm goingfrom like a someone suggested a
romance sci-fi called this Ishow you Lose the Time War.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Oh, yep, I've heard of that one.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Yeah, and so I've just started it.
It's really cool.
It's written in this reallyinteresting way where these two
kind of warring factions, whereyou're learning about who these
warring factions are, butthrough letters that they're
sending each other.
So it's a pistol story.
It's enemies to lovers, butit's also got this really
interesting sci-fi head to it.
(01:09):
So, uh, yeah, I've been readingthat.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
I love that.
Do you typically read more thanone book at once, or is it just
one at a time?
Speaker 2 (01:16):
No, I can't, I have to do the one at a time I
pretend because I find thosepeople are so smart, you know,
and they're like I'm readingfive books.
I'm like, wow, it's soimpressive.
I can't do that.
It's a skill, Do you?
Speaker 1 (01:28):
do that.
Yeah, I'm reading like sixbooks, but they're all different
genres.
Like they have to be differentgenres.
I can't read like five sci-fisor five fantasies.
I have to mix it up completelyand then I can keep up with what
the plots are.
So it has to be specific and indifferent mediums.
Like if I'm listening to oneduring the day, then I might be
(01:49):
reading one of my Kindle atnight and then I have a physical
for another.
So as long as it's likedifferent genres and different
formats, that's kind of like thekey to remembering what's going
on.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
And do you do you?
Whatever you listen to or read,is it dependent on your mood at
the time?
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Yeah, kind of both.
So I have like sometimes youknow I'll have an arc that I
need to read by a specificdeadline, but then I have to
have a romance, like before I goto sleep.
I cannot read an intensefantasy or a thriller, like I
can't sleep that way.
So I have to have a romancegoing almost kind of at all
times.
And then audio books aredefinitely almost always like
(02:26):
through the library, so they'revery mood based.
So, yes, kind of a mix betweenhave to read, want to read and
get to read.
So you know, cool, okay, neat,you never know.
You could always try itsometime.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
I will.
I will for sure.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
So what are your top three favorite rom-coms?
And I was kind of meaning this,more movies, but I mean it
could be like a rom-com book, ifthat's what comes to mind.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Okay, well, I was thinking of rom-com books, but I
could also do movies.
I mean, I've always reallyloved rom-coms, rom-com movies,
rom-com books, everything.
I think they kind of get shortshrift in a way as though
they're fluffy, but they'reactually really hard to do so in
movies.
I think my favorite rom-coms Ireally love when Harry Met Sally
(03:17):
.
I think it's kind of perfect.
There's an old 1940s moviecalled the Palm Beach Story
which is by a guy named PrestonSturgis who did all these
rom-coms at that time, like theLady Eve.
He kind of set the tone forromantic comedies in the 40s.
So it's that quick banterinnuendo splashed all the way
(03:39):
through it, and so that's myfavorite one of his.
And then the third one would belike I'm so picky about
romances, I I, I guess I'll haveto say Moonstruck.
I don't love the romanticcomedies from the 2000s, find
them a little bit shallow, likethey're fun.
(03:59):
They're fun, but I find them abit shallow, like while you were
sleeping.
I like while you were sleeping.
There's a.
There's a Goldie Hawn, steveMartin romantic comedy that
nobody talks about called HouseSitter, which is flipping
hilarious.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
I've never heard of that.
Hold on, I have to write thatdown Right, you've never heard
of it.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
It's flipping, hilarious.
I've always wanted I've gotthis idea of you know, redo,
wanted I've got this idea of youknow, redoing that story as a
novel because it's, because it'sso funny.
And then in books I would saythe Duchess Deal by Tessa Dare,
which is a historical regency,totally hilarious, so sexy.
(04:39):
Hating Game by Sally Thorne,which has been turned into a
movie, which I actually haven'tseen because I don't want it to
get in the way of the book.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
I saw the movie first and it kind of did get in the
way of the book.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah, Cause you think about those actors and you
think about what's missing, andand so I I've just decided not
to read it.
And then Alexis Hall is almostalways hilarious, but my
favorite of his is BoyfriendMaterial.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Oh, yep, nice.
Those are some really goodchoices.
It's hard to narrow it down,though, both in movies and in
books.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Yeah, because everybody's got their different
opinions and it's very fiery,like my, my stepdaughter and I
get into fights almost everyChristmas over love actually,
cause she loves love actuallyand I flip and hate it and we
like I don't like it.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
I don't like it either, thank you, I hate it so
much and I wouldn't care so much.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
But there's this huge contingent of people who really
love it, and so we goodnaturedly get into a fight about
it every Christmas.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
I love when you read a book or watch a movie and
you're like did we read or watchthe same thing?
I'm just not picking up whateveryone else seems to be
picking up.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Oh my God, I find that on book talk all the time
where people are just bananasover this book and I'm like I'll
go give it a try and I justdon't get it.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
With book talk.
It's either one way or another.
It's either really really goodand I love it.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
I'm like this is the best thing ever.
It's oh no, not not my thing,yeah, yeah, because I have had
books where I'm like, damn, I'mso glad I got this book from
book talk.
But you're right, it's one orthe other.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Hard to tell everyone's taste.
I do like that wheneverreviewers or book talk reviewers
, they'll kind of talk a littlebit about at least what they
liked or didn't like about it,because nine times out of 10, I
can kind of tell from that Okay,I think I will get on with that
.
Or sometimes I will followsomeone who I purposefully don't
like the books that they choose, and then I know if they like
(06:32):
it, I'm like, okay, I'm probablynot going to like this one.
Versus it, I'm like, oh, Ithink I will like it and it's
worked pretty well.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Oh, that's so smart, that's really smart, that's
really smart, that's reallysmart.
Yeah, I try not to leavereviews on my TikToks, uh or IDs
, because I know how hard it isto write books and to make
movies.
So, um, I, usually, whenever Ireview something, it's only when
I like it, because it's also mytaste, you know, I you know no
shade on love actually love.
Lots of people love it.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
It is their favorite movie, so clearly it's done well
.
Yeah, I know, it's just notmine.
So what can you tell me aboutyour current work in progress?
Is Love Camera Action acomplete standalone or is it
going to be an interconnectedstandalone series?
Speaker 2 (07:19):
I've always wrote Love Camera Action as a series.
Okay it's, it's sort of pitchedas a standalone.
You know, I I've always had itin my mind to to do a few other
books on it.
So I have started on the secondbook of that, and the second
book is based on the actors thatare in it.
Like the first, the first bookis, you know, about the director
(07:43):
and the director of photography, and the reason why I put it in
that world was because I'd seena ton of and read a ton of
Hollywood romances, andgenerally they are about the
actors or sometimes the writers,but I'd never seen anything
done with the crew, and so Iwanted to set it in that very
distinctive world.
Because I knew that world, Iknew the world of a set, I knew
(08:05):
the world of, you know, scriptedTV to the extent that I could
write the book, and so that'swhy I wanted to kind of go into
that new ground.
But as the book was unfurling,I was seeing a love story happen
between the actors as I wasdoing it.
So I always in the back of mymind I was like, okay, paolo and
(08:26):
Talia, like what's their dealgoing to be?
And so I'm working on that now.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Yay, that'll be really exciting.
Oh, awesome, yay, because whenI was reading that I was like,
hmm, I kind of feel like that'sa seed for something.
I was like, but maybe I'm wrong, but I don't know.
I kind of think it is.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Yeah.
Yeah, it was definitely a seedbecause I could see sort of you
know who they were and how theywere reacting to each other and
what kind of issues they wereboth dealing with and how they
could help each other out withthem.
So there's a few things thatare kind of just seeded along
the way for those two.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Yeah, and at first with those two is a little bit
rough.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Yeah, they like well, okay.
So Paolo does not hate Talia.
He's totally in love with Talia, but Talia can't stand Paolo
Like.
She's like who is this doof?
He has no talent.
I worked so hard to get hereand he just like flounced on
because he's a hot model and, um, she's so bitter about that.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Which that would be so incredibly frustrating.
For good reason, yeah, sofrustrating.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
So frustrating, yeah.
So and then he's just kind ofan arrogant douche because he's
scared.
He's scared because he doesn'tknow how to act, and he knows it
, and he knows he's screwingthings up, and so then, instead
of kind of being vulnerable, heacts like a goof.
And so it's about.
(09:48):
The second book is about himkind of shedding that and
understanding that there'sstrength and vulnerability, and
Talia learns to kind of justchill out a bit.
She's a bit too intense.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
But she's kind of had to be but fair, you know.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Yes, she has had to be.
But she's risen to a placewhere, again, it's very hard for
women in the business, handsdown no matter what you're doing
, yep, and for actresses, youhave to be absolutely perfect
all the time.
So she's learned to be perfectat everything she does, just to
succeed.
But she's kind of gotten to aplace where it's not working for
(10:22):
her anymore, like the, thestridency isn't working for her
anymore.
So she has to learn to loosenup and remember who she is, to
kind of go deeper.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
That makes sense, Kind of put down her armor a
little bit yeah exactly, exactly.
So, for those that don't know,can you tell me a little bit
more about your background infilm and television and how it's
kind of shaped the story so farand how you knew enough to be
able to write this book from theback end?
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Yeah, well, okay, so I was always a performer in high
school and in university and Iwent to theater school.
I was a singer, I was an actor.
And someone said to me theythought it was a really good
business move to shoot a shortfilm and act in it and just say,
like this is my business card,here's my acting.
(11:08):
And, for whatever reason, Ididn't like the idea of being in
a short film.
But I liked the idea ofshooting a short film and so I
shot this short film.
That went through the roof interms of success.
It went to Sundance, it went toTIFF.
It was insane and it kind oflaunched me into this new world
that I wasn't expecting.
And so then from there, Iworked on scripted shows.
(11:31):
I worked at the very bottom, Iwas a production assistant, I
was a locations assistant, Iworked in casting.
Like I said before, I was anactor, I was a singer, I did
voiceover work, I did, and thenI was writing, and then I was
producing and I was directingand I did all sorts of different
shows.
I'm from Canada and because thebusiness is much smaller in
Canada than it is in LA, and so,as a result, I had to do a lot
(11:55):
of different things just to kindof survive.
So I was working in scriptedbut then I was also working in
reality TV.
I did a ton of reality TV inpretty much any genre you can
imagine, like ghost shows,renovation shows, true crime,
like all of it, food shows.
I knew that world very well andI, you know, I was actually
(12:17):
going through a hard time in mylife at a point and I started
reading romance novels becauseit was a safe space and it kind
of helped me engage my mind inthis soft, fun, sexy space,
while in the back of my mind Iwas trying to figure out how to
get myself out of this toughspot that I was in in my life.
(12:38):
And as I was reading all theseromance novels, I just got the
bug and I was.
I was like I wonder if I canwrite one of these.
I started writing it and therelationship between the
director, who's a woman, and thedirector of photography, who's
a man, came fairly quickly to me, because it's a very charged
(12:58):
relationship.
When you're working on a TVshow, you know people think that
the director is the head of theset, but in TV it's like it's
the producer First of all.
The producer does everything,but the director just comes in
and does a couple of episodesand then leaves.
The director of photography,who does all the camera stuff,
is in charge of all the visualstuff, for the TV show is to
(13:21):
kind of report, quote, unquoteto the director.
But really they're on the samelevel and they have to figure
out a way to work together onthese shows.
So the director of photographyis on the whole time, the
director's only on for a coupleof episodes.
And callie, who's been broughtin at the last moment because
the other director was fired forsaying some unfortunate things
(13:44):
about the Me Too movement.
They've had to fire him.
Pr moved to bring in a woman,but she's a bit of a newbie and
she wants to kind of put hermark on the show.
And Jory, who's the director ofphotography, does not want a
newbie in there, he just wantsto get through his day.
He's happy that the otherdirector was fired.
He's very pro-woman in thedirector's seat but he's just
(14:07):
not interested in a new personcoming in and changing things.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Fresh ideas are a no for him at first.
Fresh ideas, yeah, no freshideas, please Like.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
I don't have time for them.
So they spark right off the topand it's an enemies to lovers
sort of romance.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Definitely starts out as enemies, for sure.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Yeah, for sure, and so sorry.
So just to answer your question.
So I wanted to set it in thatworld because I knew it quite
well and I didn't want tobecause it was my first book
that I had written.
I wanted to focus on thecharacters and the love story.
I didn't want to focus so muchon the world.
I didn't want to spend a lot oftime researching or building a
world so that I could focus onthese other things.
And so then that's why I set itin the TV industry.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
And kind of random aside, but whenever you were
building the novel, did youalmost act like the Demon was a
real show that you were workingon?
Because the way you describe,like the set pieces and stuff,
I'm like I feel like shebasically built the Demon as if
it were a real show and she wasat work and then just used it
for the book.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Yeah, well, that's, that's something that brings
specificity to to the writing,right.
So I wanted to do it.
I wanted them to be shootingthe show the Demon, which is
kind of like a Buffy kind ofshow, right, like, I grew up
with Buffy and I loved it somuch and so I love those shows.
So I wanted to kind of havethem work on that type of show.
But as you're going through thenovel, you're like, okay, well,
(15:35):
they need to have a fight.
Where are they going to have afight?
And they're like, oh, next dooris like the health set.
So this is what a health setmight look like.
Or this is like the boardroom.
Like what does the boardroomlook like?
Or a bar, or wherever they are.
So you have to kind of buildthe show around it.
And then you have to say, okay,well, why are they in a bar?
Because they're doing this forthe show.
(15:56):
So you are kind of building asecondary story at the same time
.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Wow, that's really intricate, but I'm sure it made
it easier, once you had that allbuilt out, to go.
Okay, this is kind of how itgoes, and at least I have it
built and then I can just decidewhat things are happening and
what part of the show is goingon, and all that.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Yeah, I mean I was doing it as I went.
I was very much pantsing thatentire thing.
So, yeah, that's hard.
I don't know that I would dothat again.
Now that I'm writing otherbooks it's a little bit easier,
but it was sort of on the flythat I was building that world.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
But I mean, I'm sure the first one is kind of just
getting your feet on the ground,figuring out what you want to
do, and then, of course,subsequent books are what you,
you know, know how to do fromthere.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Yeah, you become a little bit more adept at
understanding what's requiredand how you, as a writer, can
achieve those things.
So like, for example, I knewthat I write best in the
mornings.
If I try writing at night, mybrain is like out to lunch.
Or I knew that I would have tosteal time from this place to
write If I was going to getanything done.
(17:02):
I'd have to write in front ofmy kids taekwondo class, you
know.
So you, you just kind of learnhow how to do it a little bit
better.
I don't know that it getseasier.
Writing like the actual writing.
I don't think it gets easier.
It's always terrible becauseyou're terrified and you're like
makes sense, but the process ofit.
That's easier, makes sense, butthe process, I think that's
(17:24):
easier.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
So what is one reality of being on just a TV or
film set that you think peoplewould be?
Speaker 2 (17:34):
surprised to learn that maybe they didn't realize.
It's so boring yeah.
It's so boring.
It's all on the shot list,right?
Yes, yeah, exactly.
It's really like hurry up andwait.
There's moments of intenseactivity and then there's so
much waiting and it's so preciseand it's so.
I give to think of so manythings.
So I think people would like itall is presented like it's very
(17:57):
glamorous and in some ways itis but most of the time it's
just pretty boring.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Makes sense.
I mean you have to wait forthem to set everything up, to
get to the action, to actuallydo anything.
Yeah, just snap your fingers.
Yeah, exactly.
Oh, my gosh, which character doyou think would be the most fun
or the most difficult to workwith on a real life set?
Who would you want by your side?
Speaker 2 (18:19):
I think the one you always want by your side is Dan,
who is the AD, he's theassistant director, he's the guy
who fixes everything and who ismanages everything and he's
just such a calm kind of dadlike presence that you're just
happy that he's there and he'sfine and he's looking after you.
(18:42):
But he's also very disciplinedand will give you that tough
love.
So I think Dan's the guy thatyou always want to have around
Like the most difficult, forsure, is Paolo Like he's such a
pain.
He's such a pain and he's soarrogant and he's like says all
these dumb things and and you'rejust like, oh, this guy.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
True, I know, and you kind of have to pander to him
because otherwise he'll throw afit and call Howard yeah,
exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
So I think that would be those characters make sense.
I also.
I should say I love Melanie too.
I think Melanie's really fun.
She's like the producer and shecomes in.
She's just a whirlwind ofactivity.
She's like the producer and shecomes in.
She's just a whirlwind ofactivity.
She's very smart and she'sreally on it, and she has to
clean up a lot of messes.
So I really like Melanie too.
I hope Melanie gets her ownbook at some point.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Ooh is that a possible teaser?
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Possible teaser of a Melanie book?
Speaker 1 (19:33):
yeah, Yay, if Love Camera Action were a Pinterest
board or some kind of mood board, what things would be on it?
Speaker 2 (19:40):
I have such a problem with Pinterest boards and mood
boards I like really.
I'm so in awe of people who canmake these things because I'm
so bad at them.
I'm like I don't know a pictureof a camera.
I don't know.
Lavender.
I don't know, oh bad at it.
(20:01):
So when I'm looking at thatquestion, I'm like I don't know
what I'm interested for, whichis maybe a bad thing, but so I
honestly don't know how toanswer that question.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Sometimes they're hard to visualize.
It just just depends if you canfind the exact image?
Have you had readers start tokind of send in like fan art yet
?
Speaker 2 (20:21):
No, because I haven't been.
I haven't been paying attentionto reviews or those kinds of
things.
Okay, because I'm superdelicate at the moment.
So I get that.
I mean I'm, I'm really happywhen people like it, but if I,
if I get a sniff of somebody notliking it, I'll, I'll just like
kind of wither away.
So I have to build up my toughskin a little bit more.
Do you do load boards?
(20:49):
Yes, sometimes, sometimes Iwill for sure.
Yeah, what do you?
Speaker 1 (20:50):
put on them Like, where do you go to look for
stuff?
Well, um, it depends on if ifI'm going to put something like
on social media, then it has tobe copyright free, of course.
So then I'll go to Pexels, whichis like the best you know
copyright free image source andwith that it's kind of like you
have an image in your head andyou're probably not going to
find exactly what you're lookingfor, but at least you can find
(21:13):
something kind of close.
So I'll kind of use that and,honestly, I'll look at Instagram
and kind of see what otherpeople are doing.
And, honestly, I'll look atInstagram and kind of see what
other people are doing andsometimes they might have, like
you know, a paper element inthere or some kind of really
cool vignette over top orsomething that gives me an idea.
That kind of like starts me offof, okay, maybe I want it to
look like this or you know, justkind of anything I see in my
(21:33):
head as I'm reading the book.
I go with Um and.
I especially remember that, likeblue hell scene that they had
to switch, so you know, theremight be a little bit of that
mixed in with like the actualthe demon scenes or like some
leather from that corset stufflike that so I'll kind of take
that and start like building thebackground and then, if I can
(21:54):
find an image on pexels, it'sfunny because you'll type in
like hot guy or like guy withbrown hair, and then you never
know what you're gonna get like.
You might get a dad next to atoddler and you're like, uh, not
really what I was thinking here.
So, yeah, it takes somefinessing, but if you're going
on pinterest because you're justtrying to use it, you know to
um like for yourself.
then you can always findliterally exactly what you're
(22:16):
looking for or didn't even knowyou needed it, and it does make
it easier from there.
But yeah, so Pinterest is kindof like the cheat hack, but then
you're going to get yourexpectations so high that you're
not going to be able to findthat for pixels if you're trying
to actually you know, post itout into the world.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
I think that's why I usually give up, because I go
and I look and I'm so fussy andspecific and I'm like can't find
exactly what it is.
But those are good tips I'lllike.
I'll check that out.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
I have a couple of author friends that they
literally just decided to startdrawing their own stuff Cause
they're like I cannot even findit.
So they taught themselves howto draw and they're like I'm
just going to drop myself.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Oh my God, that's so smart.
That will not be me.
I'm terrible.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
I can't draw, it's not my thing.
I'll just keep like croppingPinterest or or Pexels images
and hoping for the best.
Yeah, exactly what is yourfavorite personality trait when
related to Callie and Jory?
Speaker 2 (23:18):
The thing I like about Callie and I think I wish
I was more like this, becauseyou know I really, I really love
this about her is that she,when she gets an idea, she
really sticks to her guns, likeshe really says no, this is the
idea we have to go through, andshe has a lot of doubt around it
(23:39):
.
She wonders if maybe she shouldrelax, but she, she believes in
herself enough to really fightfor what she believes in and
finds different ways to make itwork.
Like I think that's that's whatI aspire to personally.
Her, I mean like you can go toofar and you know, just listen
(23:59):
to your own ideas.
But I think Callie's trying tomake the balance of those two
things.
And then in Jory, what I reallylove about Jory is that he he's
steeped in this male worldthat's got a lot of toxic
elements and he had some ofthose toxic elements, but he is
aware enough to know how tolisten and to change.
(24:23):
And that was something that Ireally wanted to explore was
that he gets these sort ofepiphanies where he's like oh my
gosh, I'm the problem here, I'mthe one that needs to fix it,
I'm the one that needs to learn,and I think that's really a
valuable trait in men yeah, ohyeah, in anyone.
But you know, like I think,learning to listen to other
(24:47):
people instead of just alwaysexpecting things to go the way
that you've always done, mom, isa really valuable trait.
So that's what I really loveabout Jory and it's essentially
what makes him achieve love atthe end is that he learns all
that stuff and he's able to toaccept love into his life in
that way and I think there's onepoint where Jory says something
(25:08):
like and I realized that I wasjust being crabby because I
didn't want to do something newand I was like, yep, that's,
that's about what it is.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
And he taught that in himself, cause he's like I'm
literally being crabby becauseshe's a female, because I don't
want to learn how to talk to her, because it would be something
new Because it's something new.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
And I think you know, I think that's a trait that we
all sort of have it's very hard,especially when you get older,
to do something new, like Inever did social media, ever
nothing.
No part of social media was Iever in.
But I had to start doing itbecause of the book and I was so
bitter about it.
I was like I don't want tolearn this new thing.
(25:50):
You know, even though it's notnew at all, it's like not new,
but it was new to me.
And uh, it's really hard tolearn something new because you
feel stupid, you feel foolish,you feel like you're not smart
enough to wrap your mind aroundit.
You don't understand why it'sso easy for everybody else.
And Jory really has that momentwhere he's like I have to learn
(26:11):
something new and I betterlearn something new, or I'm
going to be left behind or I'mgoing to be the one who's the
toxic one on this set, and thatcan't happen.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
And it's kind of crazy how Callie course corrects
so well, like in the middle ofa scene, because I can't imagine
how hard that is, because she Iknow that Joy said like she
makes notes and stuff but he'llmake a suggestion and she'll go
oh, let's just move the camera,let's just do this like with a
pepper grinder or any of thatkind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Yeah, yeah yeah, and I think that's the beauty of
working in TV too is that youhave to be uber prepared.
But if inspiration hits, thenyou have to be able to course
correct and again that goes backto listening In that way you're
listening to what's happeningin the image or you're listening
to what's going on with theactors and to be a good director
you have to be constantlylistening in that way.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
As we've kind of talked about, there are a lot of
heavy topics in the book thatare also you know they're
balanced with more of the funand the romance.
So how do you kind of strikethat balance of keeping it light
and fun but then also havingsome of the depth and deeper
messages that are prevalent inthe book?
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Yeah, that's really hard.
It's really hard because it isa romantic comedy.
It's supposed to be fun, it'ssupposed to be light, but I find
that if you don't havesomething weighty to it, it
doesn't have like it's toofluffy, like you'll forget about
it.
You know Like you want to beable to learn something or think
(27:40):
about something that'sdifferent.
You know so.
But because of the romanticcomedy, you don't want to get
into huge trauma.
So, like you know, both of them,callie and Jory, have a lot of
difficulty in their backgroundfor various reasons, and you
want to know that.
So you understand why they'reacting the way they are.
(28:00):
Like, jory's a bit of a jerk atthe beginning, but you need to
know why, like, why is he a bitof a jerk?
Well, he's going through thisvery difficult health scare that
you know is connected to hismom, who died when he was young,
and so I think anybody would bea jerk in that situation.
You know why is Callie socontrolling on the set, in terms
(28:22):
of she feels like she needs todo everything?
Well, it's because she her momwas had some mental issues and
she had to look after her littlesister and make sure that she
and she and her mom and theirsister ate.
So you know, you have to kindof go back into those darker
things to understand why theyare the way they are and then
(28:44):
they become real people.
So you don't spend a ton oftime on the trauma, because
that's a different book, but youneed it to to to really feel
like these are real people andhopefully that does that.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
And not only does it kind of give you something to
relate to, but I guess the otherthing is or at least for me,
with reading romance novels ingeneral like sometimes I think
seeing in both characters' headsor POVs as the story's going
along almost kind of makes me alittle bit more empathetic,
maybe in real life, Like, ohokay, so if someone was acting
(29:17):
like a jury, well, maybe theyhave something else in their
past that you don't really thinkabout, that they're walking in
with that interaction that youkind of get to see in real time
in a book, Because of course inreal life, unfortunately you
don't get to hear into.
You know, everyone's thoughts.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's really smart.
I think you know I love doublePOV books because it does give
you that insight.
I read single POV books but Idon't love it because I do
really want to hear from theother person's perspective, and
usually it's the woman'sperspective.
I've read some male POVromances which I think are
(29:51):
really fun, like cause they're abit rare, they are, you know, I
like the both because I like to, I like to hear what both of
them are thinking, because youknow so I heard this story on
the radio about a mom of anautistic kid and she was in a
grocery store and her kid wasjust having a meltdown in the
(30:12):
aisles of the grocery store andshe was trying to figure out.
Like she was at her wit's end.
She was trying to figure outhow to, how to help her child.
You know, calm down.
And some random parent walkedby and said get your kid under
control, like it was her fault.
And it was just this idea oflike hey, random parent, you
(30:34):
have no idea what is going onwith this parent or this kid.
Like, keep your judgy ways outof it.
But if you took a moment, asyou said, you know with Jory, if
you took a moment to kind ofthink about what that person is
going through, then maybe youwon't be so harsh and judgy.
That said, if a person's beinga jerk, you don't have to put up
(30:54):
with that.
That's true, very true.
You know, I do sometimes thinklike, as women, we think, oh,
he's dark and moody becausethere's something deep going on,
and sometimes they're justjerks.
So you just have to, like you,take the moment to say, okay,
maybe he's a jerk because ofthis and this, but that's not my
responsibility to make him feelbetter.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Very, very good point .
At least Jory always walkshimself back or apologizes and
kind of makes it known to herthat he does have redeeming
qualities, instead of justkeeping it all in his head yeah,
yeah, and that's very importantfor him and I think that's
that's one of his good traitstoo is that he takes
responsibility for when he doessomething wrong and what song do
(31:36):
you think best represents lovecamera action?
And did you have something kindof on repeat as you were
writing?
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Okay, so much like Pinterest boards, songs I'm very
, very fussy about.
I was a singer, I was amusician, so I have like very
deep feelings about songs.
So I didn't have I didn't havea song that was connected to it,
but I list what I was listeningto.
It a lot was was Krung Benradio.
Do you know Krung Ben?
Listening to it, a lot was.
Was Krungben radio.
Do you know Krungben?
Do you know this band?
(32:03):
Okay, they're like a, they'relike a Thai funk band from Texas
and they're very like they'revery hip at the moment, like
they're very cool and hip.
And so it's like the.
It's not very many lyrics, butit's like that kind of super
groovy music and if you go onSpotify and listen to the radio,
then you hear a whole bunch ofstuff that's really groovy.
So I was listening to a lot ofthat.
(32:24):
But also I have to be listeningto something when I'm writing
or my mind will wander, but I'mso specific in that moment of
what that could be.
So sometimes it could be forestsounds, or it could be rain, or
it could be campfires orwhatever.
And then sometimes it's likeemo music or sometimes it's like
that dark academia, classicalor whatever.
(32:46):
So I have to be listening tosomething that will occupy my
mind enough to keep it on track,but not be so cool and fun that
I'll just want to listen to themusic.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
True, that makes sense, and it sounds like you
tend to kind of lean towardsthings that are less lyric,
heavy.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Yeah, the second I get into lyrics.
Yeah, I can't, I can't.
I just want to listen to thelyrics and start, you know,
dancing or like crying orwhatever, whatever the mood
might be, I can see how it'd behard to focus on the words
coming out of you know the songand then also trying to type new
words, and it's like wait aminute, like to type new words
and it's like wait a minute,like your brain can't, yeah,
yeah, I can't, I can't do.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
It makes sense.
I know lauren roberts who umwrote, powerless, that whole
trilogy.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
She listens to pirates of the caribbean, the
soundtrack, like on repeat,because she can't listen to
words either yeah, that makessense, because that movie music
is supposed to be background,like that's the whole point of
it.
So it it's.
It's engaging enough enough,and plus she writes a lot of
action stuff, that's true, soscores make sense, yeah, yeah.
(33:46):
It's very invigorating in thatway.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Which romance tropes are included.
We talked a little bit aboutenemies to lovers and how did
you kind of put your own spin onthem, because it's kind of hard
to put your spin on all thetropes, oh.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
God, yeah, I know I love tropes.
I love them, but it issometimes hard to find what the
spin is In love.
Camera action, like I said,it's enemies to lovers.
It's grumpy sunshine.
It's also forced proximitybecause they have to work
together.
But they're also in a studio,which means they're working 12,
(34:21):
14, 16 hours a day with eachother in this enclosed space
that's completely cut off fromthe rest of the world.
There's no time to do anythingafter work.
They're even in the samebuilding because they've been
put up in the same condobuilding, because neither of
them live in Atlanta.
So there's a forced proximitything, and that would be the
twist.
I think what twists on tropescome from the characters and the
(34:43):
situations.
So the twist on the forceproximity instead of them being
stuck in a cabin somewhere oryou know, like on a ship,
they're at work, like, and theirwork forces them to be together
all the time.
And it's just the nature of thework the enemies to lovers like
.
What do they fight about?
The spin is they're fightingabout the creativity of what's
(35:04):
going on set.
So their various approaches onhow to make this show is why
they spark and it's also,eventually, what makes them work
together so well.
So then, that dovetailstogether like that the reason
for the enemies becomes thereason for the lovers, you know
oh.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
I like that.
It kind of they harmonizeeventually.
Just take a second.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
They harmonize eventually.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's kind of like youknow the various when you look
back into your character'strauma and the backgrounds.
It's usually dovetails wherethey're sort of learning the
same thing.
And with Callie and Jory it'sabout letting go of control.
So Jory has to let go ofcontrol that he can't protect
people from his health scare andthat he shouldn't be protecting
(35:46):
people.
He should be bringing themcloser to him.
And Callie's always controllingeverything because she's always
had to control everything.
So, yeah, they generallydovetail and that's how you get
your spin on the tropes.
I think that Grumpy Sunshine isjust Grumpy Sunshine and that's
how you get your spin on thetropes.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
I think the grumpy sunshine is just grumpy sunshine
there really are.
Yeah, that's one that you can'treally mix up.
But I like, on the forcedproximity, that it's the same
workplace.
That's my favorite kind, versuslike one cabin or one bed.
I like the forced workplace orlike they're in a road trip or
something, where they're likestuck together and they have to
interact, whether they like eachother or not.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, I love, I love the forcedproximity.
Is there any tropes that youdon't like?
I'm always interested in thisquestion.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
I don't like accidental pregnancy.
Um, I really don't.
Yeah, I don't.
I mean, I know there aren't alot of people that like it, but
again it's kind of like I don't.
An author can change my mind.
So even though I don't love acouple of them, like second
chance, I've been kind of iffyon um.
I didn't get it for a while andI would read it and be like why
(36:51):
would you ever give him anotherchance?
Like he already proved that hecan't handle you.
Why would you go back?
But, uh, books like the ex-fowsby Jessica Joyce or um, I'm
trying to think of anotherreally writing that down second
chance, oh yeah, oh my gosh.
Jessica Joyce, whoo, her banteris like next level.
But anyway, yeah, that one manthat changed my mind, that
(37:14):
honestly kind of changed my mindon second chance.
Oh, even, uh, lila Sage, wildand Wrangled, that one is also
Second Chance and it alsochanged my mind.
So you know, second Chance isnot my favorite.
Accidental Pregnancy is not myfavorite.
Um, depends on the age gap.
I'm a little bit iffy.
I think I don't love wheneverhe's older and she's younger,
(37:37):
because I just feel like that'sbeen done so many times that I'm
a little bit like okay, I roll,sure, whatever.
But again, it depends on how bigit is and if it really affects
them or not.
That kind of thing.
I'm trying to think if there'sany others that I don't love.
Um, marriage of conveniencehasn't been my favorite but
(37:59):
there are a couple that havechanged my mind.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Okay, what don't you like about marriage of
convenience?
I?
Speaker 1 (38:05):
just feel like most of the time the reason why
they're getting in the marriageis kind of bland and it might be
like more of a fake datingreason than a marriage reason.
But you know, for some reasonthere's some like goofy random
thing that escalates it tomarriage of convenience versus
just fake dating.
(38:26):
So I feel like half the timemarriage of convenience probably
could have just been fakedating, and then I would have
liked it better because it'slike.
I don't know the thought of youagree to this and you don't know
this person and you'reliterally bound by marriage to
them, versus just you're fakedating them.
You might not like them for now, and then your feelings are
going to change, so I thinkthat's kind of what stops me a
(38:47):
little bit.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
Yeah, I think marriage convenience generally
only works in historicalsbecause that was like a fact
that happened all the time,whereas you know contemporary,
sometimes you see it with mobstories and I'm like really you
know, I'm like okay, but yeah,that's a good point.
I I don't love second chanceromances because I find them
(39:10):
really sad, like I don't likehow they've broken up.
Sometimes it's because of theirparents or there's some sort of
thing going on with society andthey wasted all this time they
could have been together andthen they have the second chance
.
So I find it a bit too hard onmy heart to deal with the time
that has been lost.
But I was speaking to someonethe other day and they said but
(39:33):
you know, when second chanceromance really works is when the
characters have changed so thatthey now can accept the love
that was there.
So they've had to go throughthis journey in order to to
become better, more maturepeople so that they could
actually have a love in theirlife.
And I was like, oh okay, allright.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
That could work Well, now that you say that the
ex-files and Wild and Wrangleddo a really great job of that.
So that makes sense, that makesmore sense of why I liked those
a little bit better.
All right Cool.
Which tropes are your favorite?
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Well, enemies to lovers.
It's a bit boring, everybodyloves that, but enemies to
lovers Really good.
I love.
Opposites attract.
I'm like a little bit out onfriends to lovers.
That's my favorite.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
Is it I?
Speaker 2 (40:17):
sometimes see it work really well and sometimes I'm a
little bit like.
What I find is often it's justone person's pining after the
other and they just haven'tnoticed yet, but I do like that
one.
Yeah, I think those.
What about you?
What are your favorites?
Speaker 1 (40:31):
Friends to lovers.
Specifically, I love childhoodfriends to lovers because I feel
like that's where it makes themost sense.
Yeah, cause most of the timethey're just nervous because
that's not what they've knownbut they've loved each other.
Basically the whole time theyjust felt like they're kind of
too far gone to make a move.
So that you know like I feellike that one makes the most
sense.
But it's hard to find goodfriends to lovers, like really,
(40:53):
really hard.
I feel like I spend yeah most ofmy time trying to fight them.
And then you know when it hitsyeah, it hits um, and then I do
love enemies to lovers of coursetoo and then forced proximity
and fake dating are probably myother two other two favorites
that are just kind of they'rejust good, like if, if it has
one of those four, it's, it'sprobably I'm gonna like it.
(41:14):
Yeah, I, I has one of thosefour, it's probably I'm going to
like it?
Speaker 2 (41:16):
Yeah, I do like Marriage of Convenience when
it's historical or sci-fi.
Like it does work in sci-fi too, because it's the same thing.
It's like a prince needs tomarry somebody yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
Suspension of disbelief is easier in a sci-fi,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
It's way easier and so it's kind of fun because
they're getting to know eachother.
But there's usually some sortof intrigue going on and then
you have to wonder if they'resleeping together and how that's
going to work.
Like the Duchess deal is amarriage of convenience and it's
set up really, really well.
Like the Duke needs a wife andshe needs to get out of poverty,
(41:54):
so they're both very practicalabout it, but there's just an
instant chemistry between themboth and it's really fun.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
Tropes are the best.
They are the best.
I love them.
They're fun to talk about.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
They're fun to talk about.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
yeah, Is there anything else that you would
like readers to know?
Speaker 2 (42:10):
I don't know.
I'm very curious about whatpeople always pick up from the
book, like what intrigues them,like what I sometimes ask what
they didn't like about it, if Itrust them to make a understood,
like an understanding, you know, critique, and so I'm always
kind of curious about that like,and what people pick up on is
(42:31):
so interesting, like what theirfavorite scene was or what they
thought seen what scene worked.
So I'm always curious aboutthat.
So if anybody wants to contactme and tell me that stuff, like
have at it.
I'm a.
I'm on Insta and on Tik TOK atauthor Noelle Stark and yeah,
like that's, I'm alwaysinterested.
Like you clearly read the book,like people.
(42:51):
Sometimes I come onto podcastsand the people haven't read the
book and that's cool because ittakes time to read books.
But like I'll ask you what wasthe?
What was the thing that youthought was interesting in the
book?
Speaker 1 (43:02):
Like that you wasn't, that you weren't expecting
maybe I feel like I kind ofwrote Jory off a little bit in
the beginning.
I was like I don't like him, Idon't like him, and then I
wasn't expecting him to changemy mind.
To be honest, I was like Idon't know about him and then,
and then he kind of slowly did,but he was growing in a really
(43:25):
subtle slow way, which I liked.
Cause if it hit me over thehead with like I had a magical
epiphany, then I would be likemaybe not, but yeah, I, jory
probably kind of came out ofleft field and surprised me the
most, cause I like Kelly fromthe jump, but it was Jory that I
already knew.
I'm like I don't know about him, I don't, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
And you're not in the minority there.
Like it's really interesting tome, a lot of people were like
didn't like Jory off the top,and I was thinking about that,
like what does that mean?
And would I change anything?
And you know, maybe I mightsoften them a bit off the top,
but the thing is with enemies tolovers.
You need to read, they have to.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:03):
So you have to know why Callie doesn't like him.
Like often I read enemies tolovers and I'm like they're just
kind of being childish witheach other, like that's really
all that's going on.
Or, you know, their familiesare fighting.
So it's like a Romeo and Julietsituation.
But with enemies to lovers youhave to show exactly why, why
(44:24):
there is conflict there.
And so I kind of took a risk tomake Jory hard to be with,
because that and you know, likea lot of people on set are hard
to be with.
But then you know, I was likeokay, but he has to make this
journey so that he's moreredeemable.
And when, when I do bring Joryback in the second book and he
sort of becomes friends withPaolo because he's also kind of
(44:46):
a jerk to Paolo, right, likeyeah, he writes him off
instantly.
Jory writes Paolo off instantly, much like readers might write
Jory off like instantly.
And Jory begins to think, oh myGod, am I wrong?
Like should I not have writtenhim off?
Like was I missing somethinghere?
And so then his journey.
I'm glad that it was subtle,because it was meant to be
(45:08):
subtle, so that it didn't feellike it was this sudden thing,
like you said, like it was anepiphany that came out of
nowhere, because then youwouldn't believe it, right?
Speaker 1 (45:18):
yeah so yeah, you're not in the minority there well,
I mean at least with jory, likeat least we get his perspective
the whole time.
So we know that, even though,like it's understandable why
callie perceives him the waythat she does, because obviously
his actions, like whenever heum, this really isn't a spoiler,
but whenever he doesn't saysomething and just lets it slide
(45:42):
and everyone else on the crewinsinuates it as one way and
kind of lets Callie take thefall for something that really
wasn't her, then it makes sensewhy she wouldn't like him for
doing things like that.
But we know at least his innerthoughts and feelings, so we
know that he's feeling guiltyabout it and so it makes it
easier for him to be redeemed.
(46:04):
Yeah, versus, if I didn't havethat perspective, I'd be like,
yeah, I just I can't get over it.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
Yeah, exactly, and he does feel guilty about it and
he's in a tough spot because ifhe comes out and says it was his
fault for doing this thing,then he would lose the chance of
the work opportunity that he isbeing offered.
So he's balancing this thing ofdoing the right thing but also
getting the job opportunity thathe wants and he's like, okay,
well, what's the right thing todo?
(46:30):
It doesn't take him.
I think it doesn't take him toolong to come to the
understanding of what the rightthing is to do.
But I think it doesn't takethem too long to come to the
understanding of what the rightthing is to do.
But I think it feels longbecause it's like I really love
writing scenes that take over,or like lots of stuff what takes
over an entire day.
So I might write three or fourchapters that just happen in one
day and it feels like it's beenweeks because so much has been
(46:52):
gone on and then the personunderstands what they should do,
but it's at the end of the day,but it's at like four chapters
later, you know.
So it's interesting just to seethat, as a writer, like people,
like your reaction and whatthat might change in how I deal
with characters later.
So that's the value of hearingwhat people think.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
True, that makes sense, that it would make it
easier, and especially goinginto paulo and talia's book,
then that way you know, you kindof know moving forward and when
.
Speaker 2 (47:19):
When that book starts , you know paulo's sort of
already hot, like he's beginningon his epiphany because he's
had, he's been a jerk in thebook before.
Speaker 1 (47:27):
Yeah, so how that went.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
It didn't work well it didn't work well for him.
It doesn't.
Usually it's just like don't ajerk.
Speaker 1 (47:37):
That should be a life motto on a bumper sticker.
Speaker 2 (47:39):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's fair for anyone.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
Well, thank you so much for your time today.
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
It was really fun.
And it was really fun talkingabout romance with a fellow
romance lover.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
Oh yeah, as you can tell by my bookshelf, I read it
a decent amount.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
Yeah, it's great, and you have a Catherine center
book back there.
Speaker 1 (47:59):
Yes, oh, I have a Catherine center section.
I have her entire back list.
I have read all of her books.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
Oh my gosh.
Okay, I better get on that then.
Speaker 1 (48:09):
Oh yeah, I can recommend a couple.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
Okay, Like when we get off line.
I want to on here that's it fortoday.
Speaker 1 (48:16):
Thanks for listening to where I left off a bookish
podcast.
You can visit noelle's site andfollow her on social media,
which will be linked in the shownotes, and, of course, you can
purchase her novel anywherebooks are sold.
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