Taking the Cake with Author Natalia Williams

Episode Transcript
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Kristen Bahls (00:09):
welcome back.
I'm K balls and you'relistening to where I left off a
bookish podcast, and today I'mjoined by author natalia
williams and we're talking abouther debut novel, taking the
cake.
Thank you so much for joiningme.
Thank you for having me.
This is so exciting, yay.
So the first question that Ialways have to ask anyone is

(00:32):
what are you currently reading?
And I know that you're kind ofin the middle of writing a book
right now, so you may not bereading a lot, and that's okay.

Natalia Williams (00:40):
So I just finished A Risk Worth Taking by
Jessica Joyce.

Oh my gosh, I love that.
I just finished it too.

I loved it.
I loved it.
Yeah, so I get into really badlike I'm a really big mood
reader and so it's really hardfor me to pick books sometimes,
and again, when I'm writing likeit's so hard and so sometimes,
like a novella is like theperfect way to go, which is what
I, which is what I decided todo, and it was, yeah, I really

(01:09):
loved it.
I really really loved it.

Claire and Connor are so cute.
I know it was it was likeperfect.

It was just what I needed.
I loved it.

I loved it have you already read You With a View
?

I did, yeah, I didn't.
I really love that one, yeah.

And then the Ex Vows comes out Tuesday.

Yes, which also, like I pre ordered as well
.
So I'm very excited.
I think her writing is great, Ithink she's I really loved it.

So yeah, I know it's like you you read some of
her books and you just have thatmoment of like.
Yes, that's exactly what thatfeels like, and yeah it's
perfect.
So, speaking of your work Iknow that you're working on your
second novel Is there anythingthat you can kind of share,
whether that's like tropes or atitle or any, any and everything

(01:58):
that you want to share?

Yeah, I mean.
So it's.
I'm writing a series is whatI'm going to be doing.
My first was a standalone.
This is going to be a series.
It's a writing a series is whatI'm going to be doing.
My first was a standalone.
This is going to be a series.
It's a three book series is theplan, and it follows three
cousins and the first one is setto come out like late September
.
Oh, wow, that's quick.
It is quick.
It's quick because I don't liketo talk about things and then I

(02:22):
talk, you know, and so it'scalled Two to Tango and it's a
story about a woman who's alawyer.
She's really unhappy, she'sreally just not feeling very
fulfilled in life, and hergrandmother was a famous tango
dancer and she sort of leavesher her tango shoes, and so she

(02:45):
kind of decides to embark onthis like reinvention of her
life, kind of.
She meets, you know, a tangoinstructor and all sorts of fun
things happen.

So oh, my gosh Sign me up.
I love that.

That sounds so cute.
It's been a challenge for sure,but I'm really excited about it
.
I think it's good.
It's been a challenge for sure,but I'm really excited about it
.
I think it's good, it's good.

And September is super quick.
So how do you continue to kindof churn out books as an indie
author, because it just seemslike so many indie authors are
so quick with releases.
I don't know how you do it.

I mean, I don't do it.

It's the answer to that.

You know, when I first decided to do to go
this route, it became veryevident that like it's a very
fast paced environment, I meanyou can, you know, you set your
own timelines, you're able tosort of do whatever.
It's obviously very differentthan going the like traditional
route.
But I very quickly learned thatit's not.
I'm a very slow writer and I'vejust kind of you know, accepted

(03:52):
that about myself.
I think there are a lot ofother things that I have going
on in my life and that's foranybody you know.
So I really commend the authorsthat can release like three and
four books a year.
I think it's insane.
I think I very quickly realizedthat I just can't um, so at
this rate, I think I'm like atone a year.

is is where I'm at, which is still really quick.
Honestly, I know, I know whenyou when you, I know I know it's
.

it's so easy to get to be like so hard on
yourself, but it is, it's aprocess.
It's a process, so's it's hard,and there are people that you
know three, four books a yearthat's insane, it's great but I
can't do it so.

I mean especially with something like writing.
It's so creative.
So I mean as much as you wantto say.
Sure, I'd love to hit this wordcount that day If you're
sitting in front of yourcomputer and the words just
aren't coming to you.
They're kind of just not therethat day.

No, and I you know something that I really
learned at first I like, when Itry to do a draft, I try to
write every single day to get itout really quick, and I quickly
realized that that was hard,realize that that was hard, and
so I try to take days where Idon't write at all or where I'm
just, like you know,brainstorming in my mind maybe
and I'm not and I'm notnecessarily getting words on

(05:12):
paper, and I think that hashelped a lot.
I also tend to edit a lot as Igo.
It's very hard for me to justlike sort of write a bunch of
stuff and then sometimes it.
It helps personally for me tosort of have an idea of what I'm
doing and then write it downthat makes sense.

I feel like that would make it a lot easier.
So, talking a little bit moreabout taking the cake
specifically, which I absolutelyloved, whenever you were kind
of deciding on the idea for thisbook, was there a particular
like, event or idea that kind ofset you on this path where you

(05:52):
knew you wanted to go withtaking the cake.

No, so I have a culinary background and that's
.
You know, maybe probably where,where part of it came from?
I it's it's like some sort offever dream, like I started
writing it in 2020.
So the idea came to me.
My son was still like reallylittle and I remember I was like
up in the middle of the nightwith him and it was just this

(06:16):
like my brain was just all theseideas were coming to me and it
was the first thing I think thatcame to me was like this fun
bakery where, like all of thesefun characters work right and
you know, there's funny coworkers and she's obviously very
successful.
And then it evolved from there.
A lot of of things were changed.
I took a break in between and Ikind of the first draft is like

(06:38):
such a mess.
So I ended up coming back to itin like 2021 or 2022, I think.
Um, and then, like rewriting itand a couple things changed.
The majority of it stayed thesame, but I I knew that I wanted
to sort of focus on a bakeryand things like that.

Is your culinary background more on the baking
side or a little bit different?

More on the baking side.
But I've done it all you know Iworked in restaurants for like
almost eight years.
I was a culinary instructor forlike three.
I've worked with kids liketeaching kids how to cook.
I've done a lot of a lot onthat end.
But yeah, mostly baking, mostlylike baking and pastry and

(07:22):
stuff like that yeah, I candefinitely uh tell there are a
lot of.

There are just a lot of references, of course,
because they're in a bakery forthe majority of it.
But also it's kind of thatthing where it's almost like an
Allie Hazelwood type thing whereyou know that, like you can
feel the expertise to where itmakes it easy for us to
understand, but it's nothingthat's too complicated, you know
, yeah, yeah, I did not have anyproblem and of course I mean

(07:50):
that's, I'm glad, I'm glad, I'mglad that that like came through
and it's not like, what is shetalking about?
Yeah, no, no, no, it did and ofcourse, I know how to bake, but
I don't know how to likecommercially bake or you know
any of the things that it takesto run an actual bakery.
So, yes, it was really welldone in that way, for sure.
So what are some central themesthat you really wanted to

(08:11):
explore with this book?

So I always say that you know, at its core,
a lot of the book is about likeself-worth, right, like how she
views herself and sort of theaftermath of like a difficult
relationship, how that leavesyou feeling.
You know there are somecomplicated family dynamics in
there as well, but I think itall sort of boils down to her

(08:33):
self-worth and that was.
I think it all sort of boilsdown to to her self-worth and
that was, I think, the the mainthing, that that I really wanted
to explore with this book.

I get that, and Sabrina of course is figuring
out so much of it on the page,so we kind of get to go along
the journey with her right,which is, you know, bumpy, but
yes, bumpy but necessarily toget to the place that she needs
to get to.
Yes, so what do you thinkresonates most with readers

(09:01):
about this story overall?

you know, from what I've heard from a lot of
not a lot of readers, but whatI've heard from readers is um, I
think the main one is reallysort of the aftermath of like a
long relationship where it was.
It was long, it was very drawnout.
I think it's common for peopleto kind of be stuck on exes
sometimes, you know, and maybeyou make really stupid decisions

(09:26):
based on that.
I think a lot of people canrelate to working really hard to
sort of prove yourself toothers, which I think she's
really trying to do.
She built this whole businesson that, and so I think those
are maybe the relatable things,at least I hope.

I would agree, definitely agree.
So you kind of said that youstarted writing this book and
then you ended up like taking abreak and rewriting a lot, and
so now you kind of self edit uplike taking a break and
rewriting a lot, and so now youkind of self-edit.
Are there any other things, um,that you've learned from taking
the cake that you'll take intofuture novels as far as, like,
your writing process goes?

you know, with the second one it was such a
different experience that Ithink I just realized that
everything is every process willprobably look different, and
maybe there are certainprocesses that will look the
same.
I did in both instances.
Well, so with taking the cake,I didn't even have an outline

(10:25):
when I first started.
I had this like this idea in myhead and so I just said, okay,
let's just, let's just startwriting and see where it goes.
And I quickly realized that isnot going to work for me at all.
And so I like, I outlined and Iredrafted, and I quickly
realized that is not going towork for me at all.
And so I like, I outlined and Iredrafted and once I had a
better idea, it flowed mucheasier for me.
With this one I changed theoutline probably three or four
different times with with mybook coming up.

(10:46):
It was.
It was so hard for me to like,I felt like I kept getting stuck
, and sometimes if I get reallystuck, it's hard for me to keep
moving forward.
I tend to write likechronologically, I guess you'd
say from yeah, but with this oneI jumped around a lot.
I tried to kind of write thethings that were exciting me the
most because it was so hard forme to to figure it out.

(11:10):
It took a while to figure itout.

Yeah, and I'm sure, like sometimes you kind of
get writing a specific sectionthat you think is going to work
one way and then you're like,yeah, no, that's not, and then
it affects everything else, andthen it's just and then it
affects everything else and thenI have to go back and then I
have to.

It's oh, I mean, I, I love it is.
It's like a puzzle right whereyou kind of have to the pieces
have to sort of fit, andsometimes they fit one way,
sometimes they fit another.
But it's so stressful,sometimes like I would just have
to walk away, like I need Ineed a minute to figure this out
I mean you're writing entirenovels.

I know, I know it's like I know it's.

You're being so hard on yourself, I know, I
know like sabrina, and, ofcourse, with taking the cake.

Like you said, it's a standalone versus a
series, so I'm sure that that'sa whole, completely different
mindset as well whenever you'rewriting it, that now you have to
take into account how theseries is going to play out for
everything, versus taking a cake.

You can kind of just go okay this is this yes
that's how it goes and some ofit has like overlapping
timelines too, and so I'm likemy brain is just like fried
trying to figure it out.
Yeah, it's definitely a muchdifferent process, that is true
in taking the cake.

I know this is a really difficult question, but
who is your favorite secondarycharacter?

you know I love this question because it's
funny.
When I started writing it, lizwas like such a.
She was just such a loudcharacter in my head and a
friend of mine read the bookearly and like she loved her too
.
She's like, oh my God, she'sjust such a hot mess and you
know I love their friendship.
So she was, you know, acharacter that I really loved

(12:54):
and it's happened with this withmy new book coming up as well.
But like the secondarycharacter that I think I'm going
to really love turns out to, Imean, I still love her, like
absolutely love her, but Ialways get taken by surprise by
other characters, and I thinkPop was a big one.

I just love him and I love Nancy too, like I
love their friendship, and sothat was kind of a surprise in
how he developed and and I, Ireally love him not to spoil
anything, but there's this onepart where Pop and Gray are
talking and he is giving himadvice and of course he's always

(13:30):
the voice of reason anyway, butit's just like the way that he
structures the advice.
It felt like he was giving itto me or anyone else and I'm
like, oh my gosh, I just love it.
So yeah pop.
Pop is a huge favorite?
Yeah, of course, you know allthe scenes where they're eating
dinner together after work andlike the bakery and stuff.

(13:51):
That that's really good, likefound friendship too.
So it's it's difficult to tryto pick.
You know, a favorite secondarycharacter I love?
Yeah, I love him.
Were there any characters?
Um, and again, you kind oftalked about it a little bit
just now, but were there anyother characters that evolved in
a way you didn't expect?
Like, did gray and sabrinaevolve in any ways?

They um, she was always very clear in my head
, he?
No, you know what they were?
Both always very, um, um,straightforward.
I think more so, and I mean,we're talking about taking the
cake, but you know, in otherinstances where characters sort

(14:32):
of change a little bit, but inthis instance, no, I think
they're always prettystraightforward.

Nice.
That helps a lot.

It really does .
It really does.
You're not crying in front of alaptop trying to figure out
what to do next.

That's really good.
Yeah, that would be veryfrustrating so what do you think
sets this book apart from otherromance novels?

you know, can I be honest, I don't know that
it sets it apart at all.
I think, um, I think I canacknowledge that it was like a
very cliched romance book, right, like she's the bakery owner
and he's taking care of hisgrandfather and like there's a
small beach town.
I think it's more a celebrationof romance novels and and

(15:22):
things that I love, and so it'shard for me to to say what picks
it apart.
Maybe that just makes me aterrible marketer of my books, I
don't really know, but do youthink it's what?
Do you think the answer is tothat?

so I think honestly that it was kind of the
way that Sabrina continuallythought about her ex and he
played such a big role and itwasn't just like in the
beginning she misses him, butthen Gray magically comes on the
scene and he is just completelyforgotten and you know, like it

(15:58):
was a true process, uh, which Ifeel like is different from at
least a lot of the novels thatI've read lately.
And then the other thing isjust kind of like, I guess, the
thought that maybe sometimeseverything doesn't go the way
that you want it to, or youdon't say the thing, it doesn't
come out the way that you wantedit to maybe the first time, and

(16:20):
so then you have to go back andhave other conversations and
maybe give some things some timeand kind of grow a little bit
to get to that point, whichagain is not.

I feel like sometimes I can just kind of be
skimmed over a little bit, andthis was kind of more in the
emotional side of things, Iguess but also in a fun way like
it wasn't, you know, down inthe dumps or anything but no
yeah, but I, yeah, I mean, I dothink that I think I try to aim
for the realistic side of things, I guess, which sounds like I'm

(16:53):
knocking books and I'm not atall, but I, I think you know, I
think about you know, what wouldsomebody really do in a
situation like this?
Right, like it's not always soblack and white.
The things are complicated,like we're complicated people,
you know.
So, yeah, well, thank you forthat yeah, I'll.

I'll market your books anytime.
So if taking the cake weregoing to be adapted into film,
who would you cast as gray andsabrina?

I'm this is a hard question it's so hard, like
I'm so bad at this, like youknow, if I had to really think,
like not really think about it,if I'm like just shooting off
the top of my head like maybe ayounger ryan gosling oh, yeah,
yeah like I feel like that.
Why not?
You know it's my movie.

(17:48):
Let me just, you know, dreamfor a minute sabrina, she's
harder, maybe, like a, like aflorence pew does that fit.

Oh yes, I think that fits.

Yes, yes I like she, like I almost went
like maybe a Jennifer Lawrence,but I don't know, I don't know.
No I think it's Lawrence P Fitz.
That's my movie.

I think those are two good castings.
Yeah, it's it's hard.
It's so hard because A it'slike their ages, Sure.

And.

I have to like roughly match up, which I feel
like half the time.
I think of actors as likethey're slightly younger selves.
And so it's hard not to youknow age up and then go oh, wait
a minute, they would be alittle bit, a little bit too old
now.
I mean with makeup and stuffyou never know.

Or like like teenagers, or like no, like 30
year olds playing teenagers.

Yeah, exactly, if they can do it.
Yeah, exactly if they can do it.
Oh, I know, wait, I feel likeit's kind of my default, but I I
always want to put him in there.
But I feel like glenn powellcould also do a good job as gray
like, oh my god, yes, yeah, Ithink he would kind of have that
like slightly cheeky side, butthen, yeah, that's so good.

I didn't even think about that.
That is so good.
I that is good.
I totally agree, yes he's mygo-to.

I don't know, he just fits so many different like
mailman characters that I kindof always feel like I'm throwing
him in and I'm like, okay, he'sjust a standard.

I mean he's become like very heartthrobby, I
think, lately.
But, um, you, did you watch?
Set it up, yes, yes, I meanthat was the first time I saw
him and I thought he was sogreat in that I think he I don't
think he was as like, you know,out there as he is now I think,
yeah, he was, he was fun and hejust has a lot of range from

(19:40):
doing.

you know I say serious but like more actionyy,
kind of like Top Gun versus thanhe did do Anyone but you.
So you know he Right.

Which I haven't seen yet.

You haven't seen Anyone but you.
Oh my gosh.

Is it good?

It's cute, it's very cute, yeah, okay, it's one
of those where I mean I'm notsaying it's like 13 going on 30
or like 27 dresses level or likeyou've got male level, but for
modern rom-coms it's pretty,it's pretty good, yeah, yeah
yeah, I don't.

I don't.
I haven't been watching a lotof movies lately either.
I feel like I just I just go tobed when I'm tired and I,
instead of staying up and maybe,I should stay up and watch all
these movies?
I don't know.

I don't know.
They've been just kind of eh,lately most have, it seems like.
So I don't know that you'rereally missing that much but
anyone but you was really cute,so I would suggest that one.
That's good.
Yeah, if you see something,it's funny, like it's both funny
and um and cute, so so do you.
Okay, do you relate moreclosely to Sabrina or Gray, like

(20:48):
on your personality scale?

I think there's a little bit of me in a
lot of the characters, whichsounds like a cop out.
But there is a lot of me inSabrina.
But there's a lot of me in Graytoo.
There's even a good little bitof me in Liz.
Me in gray too, there's even alot, a good little bit of me.
And liz you know, she, theirfriendship, sort of no, came
from a friendship that I had inhigh school and then friendships

(21:13):
that I have now.
It was sort of thisamalgamation of it, and so
there's a little bit of me inall of them and I don't know
that I can just pick one.
I think people that know mewould probably say differently.

But yeah, but that's okay and that's kind of
the way to go to have a littlebit of you in every character,
because if you made onecharacter so specifically you,
then it would probably bedifficult to write in the other
characters point of views,because you wouldn't have any
like similarities basically um,yeah, or maybe it would make it

(21:47):
easier.

I think you know you can write something
super outlandish that isn't evenyeah, and it wouldn't have to
be based in any kind of realityat all.
That's true too well.

thank you so much for joining me today, natalia,
and if you have not picked uptaking the cake, I don't know
what your problem is.
You need to pick it up rightnow.
It's a perfect summer read.
It is, it does.
It takes place in the summer,which is actually kind of hard
to find.
It seems like a lot of bookstake place, you know, like in
fall and winter and stuff likethat.

(22:19):
So this is a good summer, it'sa good summer book.
Yeah, thanks for listening towhen I left off a bookish
podcast.
You can visit natalia's site,you can follow her on social
media and you can purchase hernovels through the link in the
show notes or, of course, youcan always find them on kindle
unlimited.

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