August 21, 2025 • 42 mins
Thanks to author Cassandra Moll for coming back to talk about her newest release, a hockey romance called The Boards Between Us.
- Purchase The Boards Between Us (on KU).
- Purchase Daring Destiny (on KU).
- Purchase Beautifully Broken (on KU).
- Follow Cassandra on Instagram.
- Cassandra's Website.
For links to the books discussed in this episode, click the link here to take you to the Google Doc to view the list.
For episode feedback, future reading and author recommendations, you can text the podcast by clicking the "Send us a message button" above.
For more, follow along on Instagram @whereileftoffpod.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome back.
I'm Kristen Balls and you'relistening to when I Left Off a
bookish podcast and today I'mjoined by the author of
Beautifully Broken DaringDestiny, cassandra Mall, and we
are talking about her upcomingrelease, the Boards Between Us,
thank you for coming back.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Oh my gosh, Thank you for having me.
I'm so excited.
We talked about this last timelike, oh, if you ever do end up
doing hockey romance, you haveto come back.
And here I am.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
And we didn't talk that long ago for your debut,
and now this is book three.
So how have you been with thisreally rapid release schedule?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Yeah, it's actually just like pure chaos.
I like to stay busy and when Ido something it's like 110%,
like to a fault sometimes, where, like, I need to remind myself
you're in control of this, butyou're like stressed about it,
you know.
So, yeah, so like, theBeautifully Broken came out in
November, daring Destiny cameout in March those were a little
(01:09):
bit shorter, though and theykind of you know they, they went
together so and it was just thetwo of them, so I wanted them
to kind of come out relativelyclose.
And then the boards between us,I think, because it was new, I
just like was really excitedabout it and I wanted it to kind
of hit at like summertime, well, end of Stanley cup, end of
like the season in the summer,and then, like obviously, once
(01:32):
it's kind of been out for alittle bit, hockey season starts
back up.
So it's like a good, you know,it's a good like balance of time
and yeah, it's been fast.
But my problem now is like do Imaintain that schedule or force
myself to, or you know where doI land with that?
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Oh, that was so hard.
So whenever you wroteBeautifully Broken and Daring
Destiny, did you write DaringDestiny like already have it
written before you releasedBeautifully Broken so you could
put them out?
Or did you just write that fast?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
No, I just wrote that fast.
So wow, I will say beautifullybroken.
We talked about this before.
I mean, I think I finished itlike a month before release.
I had no idea what I was doing,Didn't do art creators, no one
read it, but like my mom and mybest friend like truly shoved it
into the world and like thatwas it.
So by the time, like in betweenkind of, when I finished that
(02:26):
one and get pushing it out intothe world because I wasn't doing
all of those other things, Iwas already writing the next one
.
So by you know, January orFebruary, that was done.
So then I had a March release.
I'm like someone who I don'tlike to talk about, the next not
talk about.
I don't mind like chatting, butI don't like to like throw like
(02:47):
release or teasers and thingslike that out into the world
until it's done.
I don't know if it's like Ithink there's bad juju or like I
just am like anxious about it.
So I always try and have thenext one pretty much ready by
the end of the you know that,the one that's coming out.
So, like the boards between usabout July 8th, I already have
(03:08):
like a significant amount of thenext one ready, so that like
kind of when the boards betweenus fizzles out a little bit,
it'll be done and I'll feel okayto talk about the next one,
Does that?
Speaker 1 (03:16):
make sense.
Yes, yes, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
So I think that's where I get the pressure.
But yeah, to answer yourquestion, I was already writing
it, but it did happen prettyfast.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
That's crazy.
Okay, before I get into thesecond book in the hockey series
, I just have to ask so on,beautifully Broken, since you
didn't do arcs or pre-orders oranything like that, do you
regret not doing that in the end, or are you glad that you just
got it out and kind of gotyourself on that schedule,
because I feel like so manyauthors put so much pressure to
have all of that stuff, but doesit, does it actually really
(03:49):
matter that much?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
So I'm sure for some people it does.
I think one of these like Ithink the way you do it, how you
do it, how much you invest init back, I mean I'm sure it all
plays a factor, but I wasactually just talking to a
friend about this a factor, butI was actually just talking to a
friend about this.
I didn't do a single thing forBeautifully Broken.
I did arcs for Daring Destiny.
I mean they have basically thesame amount of reviews.
(04:13):
They have, you know, basicallythe same rating and honestly,
like I'm doing arcs, obviouslyfor the boards between us, but I
wouldn't hate not doing them.
I I kind of feel like,especially if you're just
throwing hundreds of arcs outthere, I don't really see
personally like the, the resultsthat like I might be looking
(04:35):
for, having talked to like a lotof authors that have done that.
Yeah, I mean I guess I I wouldsee a difference in terms of
like hype before the book, solike no arc readers meant no one
had read it to help me.
Kind of like hype before thebook, so like no arc readers
meant no one had read it to helpme, kind of like promote it.
And as much as like I love myarc readers and they do like
such a great job in terms oflike, sales and things like that
(04:55):
, I don't know that it hasmattered that much.
I also, though I'm pretty likeI like to cap the amount that I
have.
I keep it, you know,comfortable for me, cause I do
it all myself and I like, I bet,everyone I make sure that
they're like a person who wouldread my book.
So maybe I'm not the one to askin terms of like someone doing
hundreds and hundreds of arcs.
(05:16):
I'm sure that they would getdifferent results, but the way
that I like to do it anyway, Idon't know that I see a huge
difference.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Well, that's encouraging to hear that.
Really, it just depends on thebook and the author.
It's not necessarily a arcs arethe be all, end, all of
everything, and if you don'thave them, you're just, you're
sunk.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Yeah, no, and I mean coming from me, who like
obviously is not super famous orsuccessful or anything like
that.
But yeah, I think it kind oftakes the pressure off you a
little bit If you feel like, ohmy God, I don't have arcs and I
don't have time and I don't havethe money to have someone else
manage it, but I don't want tomanage it.
You know, I think you would beokay.
I mean, I literally threw myfirst book into the world at
(05:57):
three weeks before I publishedit and I think it's doing well
for me in my little corner ofthe world.
So yeah, I think it could goeither way.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
And on book two in the hockey series, I have to
know.
Okay, a, I was going to ask isit Liam's book, is it Brooke's
book?
Or when I was reading I waskind of thinking that maybe
there was like a love trianglewith Drew, brooke and Liam where
maybe she thought she wantedDrew but then she actually
realized she wanted Liam.
I don't know, I was just wow, Iactually love that idea.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
That would have been like a curve ball, which I love.
No, it is Brooke's book, notwith Liam.
The person that she ends upwith, though, is no stranger,
but it's not Liam, no, I mean, Ithink you could probably
decipher that it would be herand Drew.
Almost every person that I hadread it, like the first couple
(06:53):
people, were like oh so Brookeand Liam obviously, like we'll
have a book, and I am one wholike oh so you think it's Brooke
and Liam?
Okay, I'm not going to doBrooke and Liam.
You know, like I like a littlebit of a curve ball.
Obviously drew, and Brookethere's like some inklings in
there, so it's not too far intoleft field, but yeah, we're
sticking with the two hockey, so, like Drew's book is staying
(07:14):
with Brooke, and then Liam willhave his own, and it'll kind of
shift into baseball.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Nice, okay, cause as soon as I realized that Liam was
a single dad, I was like so hehas to have a book, right he
does.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
He has his book, he'll be third, he'll.
He'll be after this one.
I actually just this is like soTMI, but I was in the shower
and had like a first scene in mybrain for Liam's book and so I
actually did write it, but Imean, as a writer, you know that
it's the most random place.
So I actually did just writethe first like 300 words of his
(07:48):
book, but no, not till the nextone.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
And you know, something kind of happens, not
not spoiling the boards betweenus, but something kind of
happens with Drew that made methink, okay, how, how is he
going to get out of this?
So is it going to be dual POV?
Are we going to get any kind ofbackground and like what was
going through drew's head whenhe made some decisions that he
made?
Speaker 2 (08:12):
some things that might have maybe happened.
Yes, it is dual point of view.
And you, you do get thatbackstory.
I think a lot of people aregoing to assume that the book's
going to be.
People are going to assume thatthe book's going to be one way,
based on what happens and kindof my like angsty writing that I
(08:32):
typically include, but it's notso much again, kind of I don't
like to do what everyone assumes.
It's not necessarily fully inthat direction.
So you do get the backstory,but you get a lot more of Drew
than just that one hiccup also.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Cool Cause I love angsty hockey.
I've now realized from readingangsty hockey that that's like a
whole sub genre that I didn'trealize existed, but it's really
, really fun.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Yeah, yeah the broody hockey player.
Gotta love them.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
I forgot to ask you what are you currently reading
right now?
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Oh, my gosh Of course , the most important question,
of course.
Uh well, as you know, doing allof this doesn't leave that much
time for real reading.
I call it real reading like interms of just like grabbing a
book off my shelf, um, but Ijust finished my last read of
(09:27):
Kelly Cook's A Heart on a Sleeve.
It's her like.
I beta read for her.
That one comes out in August.
It's a little like magicalrealism, kind of cozy fall book.
So so good.
And just before we hopped onhere, court comb I don't know if
you've, I think you've talkedto her actually yeah, she's been
(09:48):
on yep yeah so her third book.
She's like on her way so I'mgonna alpha read that one, like
just what she has so far.
Next um, hopefully she doesn'tcare that I gave that away which
is pretty open, uh so yeah, sojust author friends and their
books, but you know I just lovethem more than pulling a book
(10:08):
off my shelf.
I think too.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Yeah, it does mean more.
How have you kept up with theirrelease?
I feel like both of them havehad a lot of really quick
releases.
I'm trying to keep up witheveryone.
How do you keep up with all ofyour author friends books?
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Well, it's funny because it kind of just be like
if you're good, you know closeenough to that person, you kind
of just like it becomes part ofyour life too.
Like you know, kelly Cook and Iare really close, so oftentimes
I'm like, okay, well, when arewe revealing your?
Speaker 1 (10:39):
your title or when are we?
Speaker 2 (10:41):
you know, and like court just sent me like the
first third of her book.
So like I'm kind of doing itwith her, lindsay, my friend,
like she same thing, you know,you kind of go through it with
her.
It's a lot to keep up with, butit's just, it's more like day
to day.
You know, like it's not so muchlike boom drop, there's a book.
(11:02):
Boom, it's like okay, well,like I read that, you know, a
week ago, or I'm helping youprep that or whatever.
It's fun.
It's like a.
It's like a different kind ofbook club.
It's your own book club.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
That's true.
Now that you say that, yeah,it's not just a full book, it's
like little pieces and parts,and I'm sure that once you've at
least like once they've sentyou random chapters, even if
you're reading the book over inits entirety, it's easier to
keep up with it because you'vealready kind of you know read it
, so you're going to read itfaster on the second pass,
versus like a completely newseries that you've dived into
from the start.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Yeah, for sure.
And, like you know, half thetime too, like I'm getting voice
memos like, hey, what do youthink if I did this?
Or I'm sending voice memos likewhat name do you like best for?
Like you're, you know, you'relike building the pieces bit by
bit too.
So once you actually do readthe story, you're like, oh,
that's the guy we talked about,oh, that's why you asked that
question, you know.
So you're kind of like apassenger seat in the passenger
(11:59):
seat of like them writing thestory.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
And how did you find Kelly and Court and all of your
author friends that you feelclose enough that you can kind
of like alpha read and beta readtheir books and stuff?
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Yeah, honestly, just Instagram, which is like wild.
It's such a love hate, isn't it?
Like it makes me want to gocrazy sometimes, but I truly do
have Instagram to thank for likeall of these friends that I
just feel like are like reallife besties now.
Yeah, we just met on there LikeKelly, we always tell the story
that I like slid into her DMS,I guess, and talk like she like
(12:34):
posted something and I was likejoking or like teasing her about
it, and she like left me on redand I was like, oh, it's tough
out there, you know.
And then like something elsehappened and I'm the type like I
like to hype everyone up.
I like I'm very blunt.
If I like what you have or likeI think it's funny, I'll just
(12:56):
tell you like everyone loves agood compliment, right?
So, like I slid back in, youknow like a couple more times
and eventually she bit took youlong enough.
Now, yeah, so just just mutualstuff, and especially once you
know, like once you readsomeone's book and they give you
you know, or someone reads yourbook and you get good feedback
and they're honest and they'repolite and they're nice about
things, and then you kind oflike get to see them as a person
(13:19):
too, not just like a betareader, and then you kind of
become more friends, true, yeah,nice is definitely the key oh
my gosh, I've had some betareaders that are so mean Me too
and it's not even like, like,it's not even you know, like I
love honesty.
Please tell me if you hatesomething, especially in the
beta stage, right, Because likeI can change it.
But sometimes I'm like man,it's not what you said, it's how
(13:42):
you said it, you know.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
It can make you cry a little bit for a second.
I mean especially just becauseit's so close to you and you
know, especially with this bookand hockey and everything, yeah,
I can understand how that wouldbe really really tough to hear
any feedback, even no matter howit is just at first getting
used to that.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
No, for sure.
It's like someone like beingmean to your kids Like you're,
like you don't like Levi's, youknow this like how like he's
perfect.
So, yeah, I having them givelike constructive, polite,
honest feedback definitely showsyou like who they are as a real
person too, you know, and thenyou kind of just you get closer.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
So for any listener that wants to be a beta reader,
maybe throw like one or twocompliments in there with your,
with your critiques, or like anemoji or something you know.
Yeah, yeah, Just a couple ofthings.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
It doesn't have to be all, like you know, super
fluffy, but just just add acouple of things so we're not
heartbroken For sure, or evenjust like the way you know, like
hey, maybe think about changingthis, or like this makes me
confused, because sometimes it'slike I hate this part and
you're like hold on, it's likethat's not even helpful, you
(14:59):
know, or like my friendLindsay's, so good at like just
dropping an emoji, you know,like a drool emoji.
If it's like a like a smuttyzine or like a heart emoji or
something, you know, it's justlike okay, and then you can kind
of take a couple more hitsbecause it like, keeps you going
.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
I agree.
Any feedback I think I'veprovided anyone on a book always
starts with like maybe or Ithink you should, or have you
considered doing this just so?
That way it's not.
You know, like you said, I hatethis part.
And then you're like wait, whoa, whoa.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Yeah, well, and a big for sure.
A big one for me, because Iknow everything's so like
personal and you know everyonehas their own opinion.
I like to start with like thismight just be me, but that line
was confusing, or like thismight be my opinion, but maybe
make her say this instead of youknow like, because everyone's
(15:45):
different, Someone might love itand someone might hate it, so
you saying like this is terribleis not actually true.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Exactly, that just proves authors are the best beta
readers because they know howit feels to get feedback.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Yeah, yeah, they do get it for sure.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
So, overall, what do you think has changed the most
about your writing and orpublishing process since book
one?
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Honestly, not much.
I had no idea what I was doingin the beginning.
I still feel like I have noidea what I'm doing, and it's
just because every story is sodifferent.
You know, like I didn't plot ablessed thing for Beautifully
Broken Daring Destiny.
I tried to plot the whole thingand it got so messed up because
the characters just like tookit where they may and I was so
(16:28):
thrown.
Same thing with the boardsbetween us.
Like I was like, oh, I'll likehalf plot it out and then, like
you know, you look back at theoutline, you're like that, none
of that's, none of that's whatactually came out.
So, as far as writing, I meanhonestly, not much good and bad,
not much has changed.
Yeah, publishing, just just, Ithink, like what we talked about
(16:49):
, just like having more timedoing the arcs, teasing things,
you know, a little bit here andthere, instead of just being
like boom did another book, boomtitle drop, boom cover reveal.
You know, but yeah, not toomuch.
I mean, I think again, it's sopersonal for everyone that, like
you just kind of get in yourown groove.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Whatever, whatever works for you is great.
Exactly, exactly, I was goingto say, and with this one it's
the start of a new series.
So I'm sure that's always hard,cause it probably feels like
you're starting over completely.
Um, and if you don't want tosay, you don't have to, but do
you know how many books aregoing to be in this series and
the hockey series?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Yeah, so it's supposed to be four.
Um, and I say supposed to bebecause I'm writing the second
one now and there's anothercharacter in it, like a side
character, and I'm like theyneed a book.
They need a book.
Like I like laugh out loudevery time I write their part
and I I think I don't know Imight either have to squeeze
something in, or maybe like anovella, or maybe do like a
(17:51):
second series with like kind ofspin it, so that they're part of
like another group of people.
I'm not sure, but so far it'ssupposed to be four.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Well, I like that you're open to expanding because
you know, sometimes you don'twant to say goodbye to the
characters, and I meanespecially with um, with Leah
Bruner and Katie Bailey up here.
They did um, the DC.
Okay, so Leah wrote the DCEagles hockey series.
It's closed door hockey andit's four books.
And then Katie is her friend andthey decided to co-write a
(18:23):
spin-off series with two oftheir characters and, like a
legacy thing, I love it, and soone of the it was the son from
the hockey series and then adaughter from the other author
series and they put themtogether and like a legacy.
So, you could totally do aspinoff of characters, throw an
L Kennedy out there and do somekind of like legacy thing, and
(18:43):
then you can just keep it goingforever.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Oh no, but seriously, and it's like half and half
right, like to some.
To some extent you're like I'mready to move on.
It's been a long time, you know, and other ways it's like I'm
not ready to say goodbye.
So, like a spinoff is a coolway of kind of having both.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
True, and you can have books in between.
So you could, you know, branchout for a bit, but then come
back to the characters if youmiss them.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Which is something I'm not good at Like in my mind
I'm like this is four books.
I have to do one, two, three,four.
I'm just like a very orderedperson like that.
Yeah, but someone else was justsaying that Cause I had an idea
for something different and Iwas like, well, I'll get I guess
(19:32):
I'll get to it four books fromnow, because you know I have
three more of these to write.
And they were like, well, why?
I was like, huh, never thoughtof that.
But yeah, I don't know.
So I I do like to leave thingsopen with Beautifully Broken.
I didn't even know if there wasgoing to be a second one.
I didn't like I kind of set itup just in case, but like you
weren't hanging off the edge ofyour seat, you know, in case, I
decided to switch it.
So yeah, I have no problem kindof switching gears, but I do
(19:54):
have a tentative plan, I guess.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Yeah, that makes sense, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Yeah, how about we?
Sorry to go back, you know, Idon't know if you want to share
your writing but yours you saidyours is in a series.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Yes, it is a three book series, but it's going to
have a novella that I'm workingon with a group of friends, and
so we're going to have like anovella collection and it just
happens to kind of tie in to theseries.
So technically it'll be threeand a half.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Oh, that's awesome, Okay, very cool.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
So yeah, it'll be a series.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
We'll see if I like these characters that long, but
no yeah, no, but it's funnybecause I actually said before I
started the boards between uswell, here we are.
Um, after daring destiny, I waslike my next book's gonna be a
standalone, like because daringdestiny was you know, you had to
use it, was it was the samefour characters, like it wasn't
(20:46):
even just the two characters,same all of the same characters.
And now I'm writing four witheveryone that's included.
So here you know, there we arewith that.
But I did.
I do think like I love a goodstandalone too, in terms of like
just one idea and run with itand that's it, yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
I'm really excited on book two to get Drew's
perspective as a player, becauseI feel like it was nice getting
a coach's perspective.
But I think it'll be reallyinteresting to see like that
kind of on the ice, like POV.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Yeah, yeah it's.
It's funny.
I actually was just saying likeI'm surprised there's not more
in it like what I've written sofar.
I mean, obviously there's tonsof hockey in it, but with with
Levi kind of like the premisewas that he was coaching and
Cooper was part of it, so likeLevi kind of had to be there.
You know, with the second bookDrew is obviously a hockey
(21:42):
player, but a lot of it is kindof his life outside of hockey
and so he's not on the ice asmuch as I thought he would be,
but it's still so much, I meanlike in terms of like you know,
locker room and facilities andlike, like, even when he's not
on the ice he's still a hockeyplayer, you know.
But yeah, it's definitelydifferent.
(22:03):
I think it's fun to switch fromthat Cause my husband's a
hockey coach, so to kind of gofrom like what I get from him
all the time to like huh, thisis the other side, you know.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
So whenever you decided to write hockey, were
you initially okay?
So I've talked to a coupleauthors that if their husband
played football or played anykind of professional sport,
they're like so I'm not going todo that book.
What made you decide to tryhockey this time?
Speaker 2 (22:28):
yes, so I I did say, because he's a hockey coach,
that I wasn't going to do hockey.
But like I didn't want it toseem like I just took the easy
way out, did hockey becauseTyler plays hockey or, you know,
coaches hockey and it's reallybig and whatever.
But the characters just reallytalk to you as crazy, as crazy
as that is, and so it wasn'treally like a conscious decision
(22:51):
, it was just like, oh, I havean idea and it happens to be
hockey and so which I'm surecomes from you, kind of write
what you know.
But it wasn't like I was likeall right, now I'm going to
write a hockey romance.
It was like here's thecharacters and they are in
hockey.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
And you just happen to have a built-in proofreader
to like check everything.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Oh, he wants his name on that cover so bad as like a.
He's like even just an asterisk, like right down, like right
here, just like an asterisk, myname.
He really did help me a lot somany times.
He'd be like watching you know,like an NHL game or something
commercial and be like can I askyou a question?
Like I have like a blank in mymanuscript, like to come back
when he like wasn't busy.
(23:31):
He really did help a lot.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
And then so with the opening scene of the boards
between us.
Did the scene first come to youwhenever you started writing,
or did you have to go back andwork on it later?
Speaker 2 (23:43):
No.
So that actually is like thefirst thing that I've written.
I don't, I don't know that I'veever like gone back in one of
the books.
That was the first thing Iwrote and it's funny because we
talk about betas and this is notnecessarily like a bad, a bad
beta person.
But a couple people thoughtthat I should either cut it or
make it a prologue because a lotof it gives a lot of Alex's
(24:07):
backstory.
I'm very glad I didn't do thatand that's, like, you know, a
piece of advice to authors likejust because someone says to
change something, like trustyour gut.
Even if multiple people say tochange something, the story's
yours.
So if you don't like that,don't change it, mind you.
I mean, I had probably eightpeople read it and, like two of
(24:28):
them said this but yeah, cause alot of people have talked about
liking that part and like that,they really like get Alex right
off the jump.
So, yeah, it was the firstthing I wrote and, believe it or
not, a lot of people didn'tlove it, or a couple of people
didn't love it, but I stuck toit.
I thought it was important.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
That's funny, yeah, cause it really sets it from the
jump, so you know exactlywhat's going on, instead of
trying to like guess and piecestuff together.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Yeah, and I didn't want to focus too much on, like,
nick and Alex's past when it'snot about Nick and Alex, it's
about Alex and Levi.
But some people, like I saidand they weren't it wasn't like
they hated the scene, they justwere like, well, if Nick isn't
the MMC, why is he's in thefirst chapter?
So much was kind of theirthought process, which I also
(25:14):
totally understand.
But I didn't want Nick strugstrung throughout the story.
I wanted you to know what wasgoing on from the, from the jump
, like I said, and so that therest of it could be focused on
Alex and Levi.
And I think it accomplishedthat.
Whether or not that'severyone's cup of tea, I'm not
sure, but it was mine, so Iguess, like you said, it's her
(25:37):
story.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
You can decide what you want to do.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Yeah, I just, I just feel like there's something
about liking your story.
You know like you could writethe best book in the world, but
if you changed everything aboutit that you personally liked, I
mean, yeah, you might make moneyoff of it because it might be
the exact story that, like,everyone else wanted, or
whatever, but do you even likeit at your core?
Is that like?
(26:00):
Did you do you feel like it atyour core?
Is that like?
Did you feel like it's stillyour story?
Or did you take 20 otherpeople's opinions and change
everything about it?
So I just feel like you really,at the end of the day, have to
own it, like you have to feellike this is the way I wanted it
to be.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Yeah, it's your name on the cover.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
For sure, and again it might.
Some people might think itwould be better different ways.
I'm not even talking about myspecific book but, like you,
know other stories.
But if the author feels liketheir original idea was like so
peace, you know, broken apart,what's the point?
Speaker 1 (26:31):
True, that's a good way to think about it.
Yeah, I don't know, I'm smartsometimes With Alex and Levi.
They're both very emotionallyguarded, for good reason.
Um, how did you approach kindof building their chemistry,
even though a lot of it withthem is like one step forward
and two steps back?
Speaker 2 (26:52):
yeah.
So I think it's kind of likethe subtleties building that
angst bit by bit, to the pointwhere, like you, it's undeniable
for them, like from their ownperspective, because, like you
said, it is one step forward,two steps back, one step forward
to or you know whatever.
Two steps forward, one stepback.
It's like inch by inch.
(27:13):
But underneath all of thatthere's like this chemistry
that's building and built to thepoint where, like it doesn't
matter if you take 10 steps back, like like you're, that's going
to explode.
So I think, just like thesubtleties, kind of like the
banter, or like the look that hegives, or the comments she
makes, or like the feeling shehas, like those little tiny
(27:36):
things just add up Doesn't needto be like one huge turning
point, you know.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
So then, what do you feel kind of ultimately shifted
them?
Was there like one thing, eventhough it wasn't huge?
Was there kind of like onething that really started to
turn them in the other direction?
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Yeah, I mean they there definitely were big
moments right.
So like there's this, theirfirst kiss, like it's kind kind
of like an effort moment, as weall say, and that definitely had
caused a shift.
But I personally think that waskind of like the tip of the
iceberg.
But Alex really had to likemake that decision.
(28:18):
I think her kind of having thatmoment of like I'm leaning in
and if I'm doing it I'm all in,is what really switched for them
.
So it, the kiss obviously waspart of it.
But I don't even think it waslike, oh, we kissed and now
we're in love, you know, I thinkit was like she had to
internally be okay with it andwhen she gave herself that
(28:41):
permission it switched yeah, itwasn't just the flirting anymore
, it wasn't the fact of hertrepidation that he was somewhat
close to cooper yeah, it wasdeciding.
That makes sense yeah, it waslike I, if I'm doing, if I'm
doing this, I'm doing this andknow, going all in and like
giving herself permission to dothat.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
And what is one detail from the book that you
think that hockey fans inparticular will appreciate but
romance readers could miss?
Speaker 2 (29:11):
So it's so funny, because a lot of people were
like there's a lot of hockey inthis, and I'm like, yeah, that's
the point.
I mean I know some hockeyromances, right.
Like there's a stick on thecover and they call it a hockey.
I get that and people love thatand that's fine.
But I mean, like hockey is whatI know, so there is a lot of
hockey in it.
Um, but I did change, like Ihad more of those details, and I
(29:33):
did change some of them,because a lot of people were a
little confused.
Um, like I think I had, likethey did a celly instead of like
a celebration, like that's soobvious to me what celly meant,
but like six beta readers werelike I don't know what that is.
Um, there was one thing, though, that everyone didn't know what
(29:54):
it was, and I left it anyways.
It's when Cooper and Drew areplaying chill that he says, like
my chill game is top notch,which is just like NHL hockey.
It's just like what the kidscall it yeah and people are like
I don't know what chill is, isthat a game?
And I'm like don't worry aboutit, don't worry about it.
The the real, the reels willget it.
(30:16):
You know, they'll understand.
And I didn't think it was thatbig of a deal to know, if you
didn't get it, you just assumedit was a game and you moved on.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
So yeah, that is hard to try to keep it kind of
rudimentary enough to whereeveryone can understand.
But then you know, for the truefans you get a little bit.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Yeah, and I also think it's funny because there's
certain things in some hockeyromances that like technically,
if you Google them, maybe itcomes up under hockey, but like
that's not really what hockeyplayers do or say.
You know, like my husband, whocoaches hockey and has played
(30:55):
hockey his whole life, would belike what is that?
Because it's it's, it's almostlike um, like conversational
language versus like formallanguage, and so I think a lot
of mine because I'm just likearound it all the time is more
conversational hockey languageand so, yeah, you kind of have
to like pick and choose, but Ikept a couple of things in there
.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Yeah, that makes sense.
It's kind of fun to learn someof some of that kind of on the
other side, Cause I mean if youwatch like interviews and stuff,
you might get some of that, butnot necessarily if you're just
like watching a game or going toa game or just reading hockey
romances, yeah exactly, and Ikind of like that, like oh,
what's that, you know, likewhere it kind of makes you like
think a little bit.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
So just for fun.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Yeah, I mean, there've been so many times
where I will like Googlesomething, cause I'm like wait a
minute, wait, what does thatmean, especially if it's a sport
that I don't know a lot aboutinitially?
Then you learn a little bitmore and you get to Google
things and you're like, oh okay,that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Yeah, well, and like there's a book that uses like
the word kit for like hockeygear.
That's like not a thing likethat.
Like my husband was like I'venever heard of it, and here it's
like I'm pretty sure that'swhat they call it, like overseas
and so again, even that liketechnically, but like over here,
(32:08):
I think like soccer players useit more.
So it's like it depends onwhere the author's from and like
where you know where they'velearned the things that they
know.
So, yeah, it's.
It's again, it's like their ownlittle personal piece and if
they changed it it wouldn't betheirs anymore.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
So that's a really interesting point.
I never would have thought ofthat, but it would have mattered
regionally.
But it totally makes sense.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Yeah, cause I was like wait a second, I never
heard of that.
And then I asked my husband.
He was like I have no idea whatyou're talking about, which is
crazy because he's been you andso we looked it up and
everything that came up withsoccer.
But then if you type in like UKI think it was, I don't even
remember, I could be completelywrong, but it came up like over
there.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
So it yeah, it's funny how it you, it depends.
It's honestly also kind of likeif, um, if someone, it's super
specific example but if someonewere from Texas, not from Texas,
and they put their book inTexas.
There's so many things that,like we say, that no one else
would understand.
And I don't even know how youwould put it into a book, like
everyone says they're fromDallas, even if they're not
really from Dallas.
And so if you say I'm fromDallas and someone's like okay,
where are you actually from?
(33:16):
And they're like oh cool, I'mfrom here, here, here.
But you know, you wouldn't knowthat if you just say I'm from
Dallas, then everyone's notthinking that you actually mean
like real Dallas.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Real.
Oh, that's so funny.
I mean same thing, Like I'm notfrom Philly but I'm right
outside of Philly, and samething.
There are certain things thatyou say, or you know whatever,
and people are like huh, you'relike, nevermind, you don't get
it.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
That is really hard to keep all that, all that
together.
So did you use, like actualgame footage or interviews for
inspiration, or did you keepeverything really fictional?
And how did you pick your teamname?
Speaker 2 (33:54):
So I actually have this problem where I forget that
I am writing fiction and thatthings can be fictional and so I
want everything to be likesuper realistic.
And you know, like to the pointwhere I'm like I'm asking my
husband like well, if he hit thepuck here, would it really
bounce off of that board?
Or, and he was like dude, justwrite it, you know.
(34:19):
So a lot of it is very true,very real.
Um, I watched like YouTubetours of like facilities and,
you know, took notes, like Iactually had him reach out to
like people he knows to see if Icould get into like
professional facilities.
It didn't work out but I waslike I need research.
(34:41):
Um, so most of it is very real.
Um, there are parts where I waslike, okay, I have to make this
fiction.
So here we go.
And then the team name Iactually don't remember how.
I think, honestly, I wasprobably just googling like
sports names and it stuck out tome.
I liked that.
So it's golden city, it'ssupposed to be golden, as in
(35:03):
like you know, like bright andsunrise and something like like
the sun, and so I think like theflames kind of gave that off to
me like the golden flames.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Yeah, you know how like something just feels right,
like a character name orsomething you're like, yeah,
that's it it was always supposedto be that way, yeah, yeah,
exactly, because you can't usereal team names, right, because
they're trademarked.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Yeah, so I couldn't there.
Well, there are like theCalgary flames, but I can't say
that like flames is nottrademarked because it's so
generic.
But I don't know if maybe let'ssay like the flyers, like
flyers are like that's not athing.
Like flames are obviously athing.
But you can, you can use teamnames.
(35:45):
You just can't put it as like.
I couldn't say like the CalgaryFlames, yeah, got it like
together, okay, yeah, and Ithink it's the same with like
colleges and stuff too becauseall that trademark copyright
stuff would be a really funbattle.
Oh my gosh oh my gosh, I know,and then.
But then you have to like,think of, like teams that they
(36:05):
play, and and make sure that youdon't duplicate, unless you
mean to duplicate.
It's a lot.
I have like a running googlelist that's smart.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
And now you have to convince, uh, your other author
friends to write hockey romancesand then just have their teams
play your teams and then thereyou go.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
You don't have to come up with names anymore
someone else just said thattoday they're like they'll just
play the golden city plane and Iactually don't know if anyone
picked up on it, but I have themgoing to grand Oaks, which is
the same city that Ronan boughthis pizza shop in, and, daring
destiny, I didn't catch that.
(36:46):
Oh, wow, okay, yeah, and Alexand Cooper.
Actually, when they're in thehotel, alex is like I heard
there's a really cool pizzaplace nearby and so like in my
head that's Ronan's Pizza Shop.
So like I have a little bit ofthat going on.
Whether or not anyone else willpick up on it I don't know, but
it is the same.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
That's fun.
Yeah, I tend to.
I tend to pick up on thosekinds of things If I'm reading a
physical copy over um oh forsure Over a Kindle copy, so that
makes sense.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
Well, and especially in the same series like daring
destiny is not even part of this, but for me it made sense.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Oh, I like that.
That's so cool.
That's a little invisiblestring, A little.
A little Easter.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
Um, what is your favorite kind of trope to write
within hockey romance or justromance in general, like grumpy
sunshine, fake dating, friendsto lovers, all that kind of
stuff.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
So my favorite is forced proximity.
I'm like obsessed.
I think it's because of that,like you have to have it.
You know, um, which this bookhas.
I wouldn't say it's like one ofits main tropes, but I mean
they're forced to be in the sameplace.
I think, as far as hockeyromance goes now that I'm just
like doing my second one and Iwrite it in almost everything
(37:59):
else too.
But it's different worlds, likejust two totally different
people coming together.
Like I feel like I I rarelywrite like someone from this
town and another girl from thistown.
You know it's like there's youhave NHL coach, single mom.
Like you know he's amillionaire, she is not kind of
thing.
And then obviously the secondbook, it's Brooks a waitress and
(38:22):
Drew's yeah, exactly.
So in some senses they're alwayslike kind of opposite.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
That's a really cool way to think about it.
Yeah, yeah, I like it.
That's really unique.
I like that.
Um, if you could expand onescene into kind of like a full
bonus chapter, which one do youthink it would be in?
Why?
In the boards between us?
Speaker 2 (38:43):
so I'm sure I could come up with a couple, but the
first thing that comes to mindis at the very end, the last
chapter, before the epilogue.
They're at the gala for sparkthe flame, which is kind of like
the culminating event forcooper, even like being involved
with the flames, and cooper isset to like give a speech, but
(39:06):
we don't see it it's.
You know, levi is likeintroducing everything and then
him and Alex kind of go off andthen, like off page, they come
back and there's the speech.
I think I would write what thatspeech is, because I feel like
Cooper is such he's such a smalltechnically, like a small role,
but also huge, like he's thereason that they're even
(39:28):
together, that they were put inthe same place.
Obviously he's Alex's pride andjoy and he's like such a cute
kid.
I just think it would be niceto hear his kind of reflection
on the whole thing, and I'veactually gotten asked that a few
times, like can you make a youknow, a bonus chapter or can you
put it out at some point?
So maybe I will.
(39:48):
That would be like a fun, maybelike anniversary thing to do.
I actually did toy with puttingit in there too, but I went
against it.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
Yeah, that makes sense for the pacing.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
Yeah Well, and I?
I didn't want to end the storyon Cooper.
You know it's hard.
It's a love story, so like asmuch as it would be really cool
and he's important, I didn'twant to end it with a 12 year
old kid.
I wanted to end it with thelovers.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
So is creating a fictional kid really difficult.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
Not for me, because, uh, my, his, like, my background
is in teaching and so I wasaround kids 24, seven, um, I
also have three of them, so it'snot that hard.
Sometimes it's hard to writeone.
That's not my kid's age,because I like, naturally, I
have three little girls, five,four and two.
So I naturally want them tolike, be this, like really young
(40:37):
little.
And you know, so I have afriend who has a nine-year-old,
and Kelly has children, and youknow other friends that have
children, and so I'm like hey,you're, you know your kid's like
12.
Can you read this and tell meif it's something they would say
?
So that's a little hardsometimes, but as far as
actually writing the kid itself,no, it's, it comes pretty
(40:58):
naturally.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
And is there anything that you would like readers to
know about the boards between us?
No, I mean, it comes out.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
July 8th.
Right now it's open forpre-order and I have them, so,
like people are buying them andgetting them already, which is
so exciting.
Yeah, I just I love them.
This is probably like I know Isay every book's my favorite
book, but it means a lot to mebecause of, like, the whole
world that they're in.
So it means a lot to me in adifferent way than the other
(41:26):
books maybe did, and I have anew discreet cover.
I don't know if you saw it.
I'm going to have it heresomewhere.
So I have not that listenerscan necessarily see this, but I
have, like, the character coverand the discreet cover now.
So that's so exciting, becauseI didn't do that with my last
book.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
What made you decide to do the discreet cover?
Speaker 2 (41:45):
I think because I knew this was going to be a
series like Beautifully Broken.
I didn't even know if I wasgoing to do another one, Daring
Destiny.
I knew it was the end.
I just love when books have theoption.
You know, if you really love it, you grab both.
If you don't love thecharacters, you grab the
discreet.
If you, you know, love thecharacters, you grab the
characters.
So I just wanted, I just wantedoptions, and even for me just
(42:06):
to like this four book series islike a big deal, I feel like.
So I just wanted to dosomething different.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
So all four books are going to have discrete cover
options.
Speaker 2 (42:15):
Yes, so all of them will have the characters that
are similar, like same artistand everything for this one, and
then the discreets will allkind of go together with their
character, like the colors andstuff, but they'll all be more
this style.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
Nice, Yay, that's really exciting.
Yeah, I'm excited.
Thank you for being on andthat's it for today.
Thanks for listening to when ILeft Off a bookish podcast.
You can sign up for Cassandra'snewsletter, purchase her novel
and purchase all of her novelsin the links through the show
notes.
You.
Welcome back.
I'm Kristen Balls and you'relistening to when I Left Off a
bookish podcast and today I'mjoined by the author of
Beautifully Broken DaringDestiny, cassandra Mall, and we
are talking about her upcomingrelease, the Boards Between Us,
thank you for coming back.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Oh my gosh, Thank you for having me.
I'm so excited.
We talked about this last timelike, oh, if you ever do end up
doing hockey romance, you haveto come back.
And here I am.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
And we didn't talk that long ago for your debut,
and now this is book three.
So how have you been with thisreally rapid release schedule?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Yeah, it's actually just like pure chaos.
I like to stay busy and when Ido something it's like 110%,
like to a fault sometimes, where, like, I need to remind myself
you're in control of this, butyou're like stressed about it,
you know.
So, yeah, so like, theBeautifully Broken came out in
November, daring Destiny cameout in March those were a little
(01:09):
bit shorter, though and theykind of you know they, they went
together so and it was just thetwo of them, so I wanted them
to kind of come out relativelyclose.
And then the boards between us,I think, because it was new, I
just like was really excitedabout it and I wanted it to kind
of hit at like summertime, well, end of Stanley cup, end of
like the season in the summer,and then, like obviously, once
(01:32):
it's kind of been out for alittle bit, hockey season starts
back up.
So it's like a good, you know,it's a good like balance of time
and yeah, it's been fast.
But my problem now is like do Imaintain that schedule or force
myself to, or you know where doI land with that?
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Oh, that was so hard.
So whenever you wroteBeautifully Broken and Daring
Destiny, did you write DaringDestiny like already have it
written before you releasedBeautifully Broken so you could
put them out?
Or did you just write that fast?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
No, I just wrote that fast.
So wow, I will say beautifullybroken.
We talked about this before.
I mean, I think I finished itlike a month before release.
I had no idea what I was doing,Didn't do art creators, no one
read it, but like my mom and mybest friend like truly shoved it
into the world and like thatwas it.
So by the time, like in betweenkind of, when I finished that
(02:26):
one and get pushing it out intothe world because I wasn't doing
all of those other things, Iwas already writing the next one
.
So by you know, January orFebruary, that was done.
So then I had a March release.
I'm like someone who I don'tlike to talk about, the next not
talk about.
I don't mind like chatting, butI don't like to like throw like
(02:47):
release or teasers and thingslike that out into the world
until it's done.
I don't know if it's like Ithink there's bad juju or like I
just am like anxious about it.
So I always try and have thenext one pretty much ready by
the end of the you know that,the one that's coming out.
So, like the boards between usabout July 8th, I already have
(03:08):
like a significant amount of thenext one ready, so that like
kind of when the boards betweenus fizzles out a little bit,
it'll be done and I'll feel okayto talk about the next one,
Does that?
Speaker 1 (03:16):
make sense.
Yes, yes, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
So I think that's where I get the pressure.
But yeah, to answer yourquestion, I was already writing
it, but it did happen prettyfast.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
That's crazy.
Okay, before I get into thesecond book in the hockey series
, I just have to ask so on,beautifully Broken, since you
didn't do arcs or pre-orders oranything like that, do you
regret not doing that in the end, or are you glad that you just
got it out and kind of gotyourself on that schedule,
because I feel like so manyauthors put so much pressure to
have all of that stuff, but doesit, does it actually really
(03:49):
matter that much?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
So I'm sure for some people it does.
I think one of these like Ithink the way you do it, how you
do it, how much you invest init back, I mean I'm sure it all
plays a factor, but I wasactually just talking to a
friend about this a factor, butI was actually just talking to a
friend about this.
I didn't do a single thing forBeautifully Broken.
I did arcs for Daring Destiny.
I mean they have basically thesame amount of reviews.
(04:13):
They have, you know, basicallythe same rating and honestly,
like I'm doing arcs, obviouslyfor the boards between us, but I
wouldn't hate not doing them.
I I kind of feel like,especially if you're just
throwing hundreds of arcs outthere, I don't really see
personally like the, the resultsthat like I might be looking
(04:35):
for, having talked to like a lotof authors that have done that.
Yeah, I mean I guess I I wouldsee a difference in terms of
like hype before the book, solike no arc readers meant no one
had read it to help me.
Kind of like hype before thebook, so like no arc readers
meant no one had read it to helpme, kind of like promote it.
And as much as like I love myarc readers and they do like
such a great job in terms oflike, sales and things like that
(04:55):
, I don't know that it hasmattered that much.
I also, though I'm pretty likeI like to cap the amount that I
have.
I keep it, you know,comfortable for me, cause I do
it all myself and I like, I bet,everyone I make sure that
they're like a person who wouldread my book.
So maybe I'm not the one to askin terms of like someone doing
hundreds and hundreds of arcs.
(05:16):
I'm sure that they would getdifferent results, but the way
that I like to do it anyway, Idon't know that I see a huge
difference.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Well, that's encouraging to hear that.
Really, it just depends on thebook and the author.
It's not necessarily a arcs arethe be all, end, all of
everything, and if you don'thave them, you're just, you're
sunk.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Yeah, no, and I mean coming from me, who like
obviously is not super famous orsuccessful or anything like
that.
But yeah, I think it kind oftakes the pressure off you a
little bit If you feel like, ohmy God, I don't have arcs and I
don't have time and I don't havethe money to have someone else
manage it, but I don't want tomanage it.
You know, I think you would beokay.
I mean, I literally threw myfirst book into the world at
(05:57):
three weeks before I publishedit and I think it's doing well
for me in my little corner ofthe world.
So yeah, I think it could goeither way.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
And on book two in the hockey series, I have to
know.
Okay, a, I was going to ask isit Liam's book, is it Brooke's
book?
Or when I was reading I waskind of thinking that maybe
there was like a love trianglewith Drew, brooke and Liam where
maybe she thought she wantedDrew but then she actually
realized she wanted Liam.
I don't know, I was just wow, Iactually love that idea.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
That would have been like a curve ball, which I love.
No, it is Brooke's book, notwith Liam.
The person that she ends upwith, though, is no stranger,
but it's not Liam, no, I mean, Ithink you could probably
decipher that it would be herand Drew.
Almost every person that I hadread it, like the first couple
(06:53):
people, were like oh so Brookeand Liam obviously, like we'll
have a book, and I am one wholike oh so you think it's Brooke
and Liam?
Okay, I'm not going to doBrooke and Liam.
You know, like I like a littlebit of a curve ball.
Obviously drew, and Brookethere's like some inklings in
there, so it's not too far intoleft field, but yeah, we're
sticking with the two hockey, so, like Drew's book is staying
(07:14):
with Brooke, and then Liam willhave his own, and it'll kind of
shift into baseball.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Nice, okay, cause as soon as I realized that Liam was
a single dad, I was like so hehas to have a book, right he
does.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
He has his book, he'll be third, he'll.
He'll be after this one.
I actually just this is like soTMI, but I was in the shower
and had like a first scene in mybrain for Liam's book and so I
actually did write it, but Imean, as a writer, you know that
it's the most random place.
So I actually did just writethe first like 300 words of his
(07:48):
book, but no, not till the nextone.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
And you know, something kind of happens, not
not spoiling the boards betweenus, but something kind of
happens with Drew that made methink, okay, how, how is he
going to get out of this?
So is it going to be dual POV?
Are we going to get any kind ofbackground and like what was
going through drew's head whenhe made some decisions that he
made?
Speaker 2 (08:12):
some things that might have maybe happened.
Yes, it is dual point of view.
And you, you do get thatbackstory.
I think a lot of people aregoing to assume that the book's
going to be.
People are going to assume thatthe book's going to be one way,
based on what happens and kindof my like angsty writing that I
(08:32):
typically include, but it's notso much again, kind of I don't
like to do what everyone assumes.
It's not necessarily fully inthat direction.
So you do get the backstory,but you get a lot more of Drew
than just that one hiccup also.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Cool Cause I love angsty hockey.
I've now realized from readingangsty hockey that that's like a
whole sub genre that I didn'trealize existed, but it's really
, really fun.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Yeah, yeah the broody hockey player.
Gotta love them.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
I forgot to ask you what are you currently reading
right now?
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Oh, my gosh Of course , the most important question,
of course.
Uh well, as you know, doing allof this doesn't leave that much
time for real reading.
I call it real reading like interms of just like grabbing a
book off my shelf, um, but Ijust finished my last read of
(09:27):
Kelly Cook's A Heart on a Sleeve.
It's her like.
I beta read for her.
That one comes out in August.
It's a little like magicalrealism, kind of cozy fall book.
So so good.
And just before we hopped onhere, court comb I don't know if
you've, I think you've talkedto her actually yeah, she's been
(09:48):
on yep yeah so her third book.
She's like on her way so I'mgonna alpha read that one, like
just what she has so far.
Next um, hopefully she doesn'tcare that I gave that away which
is pretty open, uh so yeah, sojust author friends and their
books, but you know I just lovethem more than pulling a book
(10:08):
off my shelf.
I think too.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Yeah, it does mean more.
How have you kept up with theirrelease?
I feel like both of them havehad a lot of really quick
releases.
I'm trying to keep up witheveryone.
How do you keep up with all ofyour author friends books?
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Well, it's funny because it kind of just be like
if you're good, you know closeenough to that person, you kind
of just like it becomes part ofyour life too.
Like you know, kelly Cook and Iare really close, so oftentimes
I'm like, okay, well, when arewe revealing your?
Speaker 1 (10:39):
your title or when are we?
Speaker 2 (10:41):
you know, and like court just sent me like the
first third of her book.
So like I'm kind of doing itwith her, lindsay, my friend,
like she same thing, you know,you kind of go through it with
her.
It's a lot to keep up with, butit's just, it's more like day
to day.
You know, like it's not so muchlike boom drop, there's a book.
(11:02):
Boom, it's like okay, well,like I read that, you know, a
week ago, or I'm helping youprep that or whatever.
It's fun.
It's like a.
It's like a different kind ofbook club.
It's your own book club.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
That's true.
Now that you say that, yeah,it's not just a full book, it's
like little pieces and parts,and I'm sure that once you've at
least like once they've sentyou random chapters, even if
you're reading the book over inits entirety, it's easier to
keep up with it because you'vealready kind of you know read it
, so you're going to read itfaster on the second pass,
versus like a completely newseries that you've dived into
from the start.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Yeah, for sure.
And, like you know, half thetime too, like I'm getting voice
memos like, hey, what do youthink if I did this?
Or I'm sending voice memos likewhat name do you like best for?
Like you're, you know, you'relike building the pieces bit by
bit too.
So once you actually do readthe story, you're like, oh,
that's the guy we talked about,oh, that's why you asked that
question, you know.
So you're kind of like apassenger seat in the passenger
(11:59):
seat of like them writing thestory.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
And how did you find Kelly and Court and all of your
author friends that you feelclose enough that you can kind
of like alpha read and beta readtheir books and stuff?
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Yeah, honestly, just Instagram, which is like wild.
It's such a love hate, isn't it?
Like it makes me want to gocrazy sometimes, but I truly do
have Instagram to thank for likeall of these friends that I
just feel like are like reallife besties now.
Yeah, we just met on there LikeKelly, we always tell the story
that I like slid into her DMS,I guess, and talk like she like
(12:34):
posted something and I was likejoking or like teasing her about
it, and she like left me on redand I was like, oh, it's tough
out there, you know.
And then like something elsehappened and I'm the type like I
like to hype everyone up.
I like I'm very blunt.
If I like what you have or likeI think it's funny, I'll just
(12:56):
tell you like everyone loves agood compliment, right?
So, like I slid back in, youknow like a couple more times
and eventually she bit took youlong enough.
Now, yeah, so just just mutualstuff, and especially once you
know, like once you readsomeone's book and they give you
you know, or someone reads yourbook and you get good feedback
and they're honest and they'repolite and they're nice about
things, and then you kind oflike get to see them as a person
(13:19):
too, not just like a betareader, and then you kind of
become more friends, true, yeah,nice is definitely the key oh
my gosh, I've had some betareaders that are so mean Me too
and it's not even like, like,it's not even you know, like I
love honesty.
Please tell me if you hatesomething, especially in the
beta stage, right, Because likeI can change it.
But sometimes I'm like man,it's not what you said, it's how
(13:42):
you said it, you know.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
It can make you cry a little bit for a second.
I mean especially just becauseit's so close to you and you
know, especially with this bookand hockey and everything, yeah,
I can understand how that wouldbe really really tough to hear
any feedback, even no matter howit is just at first getting
used to that.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
No, for sure.
It's like someone like beingmean to your kids Like you're,
like you don't like Levi's, youknow this like how like he's
perfect.
So, yeah, I having them givelike constructive, polite,
honest feedback definitely showsyou like who they are as a real
person too, you know, and thenyou kind of just you get closer.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
So for any listener that wants to be a beta reader,
maybe throw like one or twocompliments in there with your,
with your critiques, or like anemoji or something you know.
Yeah, yeah, Just a couple ofthings.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
It doesn't have to be all, like you know, super
fluffy, but just just add acouple of things so we're not
heartbroken For sure, or evenjust like the way you know, like
hey, maybe think about changingthis, or like this makes me
confused, because sometimes it'slike I hate this part and
you're like hold on, it's likethat's not even helpful, you
(14:59):
know, or like my friendLindsay's, so good at like just
dropping an emoji, you know,like a drool emoji.
If it's like a like a smuttyzine or like a heart emoji or
something, you know, it's justlike okay, and then you can kind
of take a couple more hitsbecause it like, keeps you going
.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
I agree.
Any feedback I think I'veprovided anyone on a book always
starts with like maybe or Ithink you should, or have you
considered doing this just so?
That way it's not.
You know, like you said, I hatethis part.
And then you're like wait, whoa, whoa.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Yeah, well, and a big for sure.
A big one for me, because Iknow everything's so like
personal and you know everyonehas their own opinion.
I like to start with like thismight just be me, but that line
was confusing, or like thismight be my opinion, but maybe
make her say this instead of youknow like, because everyone's
(15:45):
different, Someone might love itand someone might hate it, so
you saying like this is terribleis not actually true.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Exactly, that just proves authors are the best beta
readers because they know howit feels to get feedback.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Yeah, yeah, they do get it for sure.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
So, overall, what do you think has changed the most
about your writing and orpublishing process since book
one?
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Honestly, not much.
I had no idea what I was doingin the beginning.
I still feel like I have noidea what I'm doing, and it's
just because every story is sodifferent.
You know, like I didn't plot ablessed thing for Beautifully
Broken Daring Destiny.
I tried to plot the whole thingand it got so messed up because
the characters just like tookit where they may and I was so
(16:28):
thrown.
Same thing with the boardsbetween us.
Like I was like, oh, I'll likehalf plot it out and then, like
you know, you look back at theoutline, you're like that, none
of that's, none of that's whatactually came out.
So, as far as writing, I meanhonestly, not much good and bad,
not much has changed.
Yeah, publishing, just just, Ithink, like what we talked about
(16:49):
, just like having more timedoing the arcs, teasing things,
you know, a little bit here andthere, instead of just being
like boom did another book, boomtitle drop, boom cover reveal.
You know, but yeah, not toomuch.
I mean, I think again, it's sopersonal for everyone that, like
you just kind of get in yourown groove.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Whatever, whatever works for you is great.
Exactly, exactly, I was goingto say, and with this one it's
the start of a new series.
So I'm sure that's always hard,cause it probably feels like
you're starting over completely.
Um, and if you don't want tosay, you don't have to, but do
you know how many books aregoing to be in this series and
the hockey series?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Yeah, so it's supposed to be four.
Um, and I say supposed to bebecause I'm writing the second
one now and there's anothercharacter in it, like a side
character, and I'm like theyneed a book.
They need a book.
Like I like laugh out loudevery time I write their part
and I I think I don't know Imight either have to squeeze
something in, or maybe like anovella, or maybe do like a
(17:51):
second series with like kind ofspin it, so that they're part of
like another group of people.
I'm not sure, but so far it'ssupposed to be four.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Well, I like that you're open to expanding because
you know, sometimes you don'twant to say goodbye to the
characters, and I meanespecially with um, with Leah
Bruner and Katie Bailey up here.
They did um, the DC.
Okay, so Leah wrote the DCEagles hockey series.
It's closed door hockey andit's four books.
And then Katie is her friend andthey decided to co-write a
(18:23):
spin-off series with two oftheir characters and, like a
legacy thing, I love it, and soone of the it was the son from
the hockey series and then adaughter from the other author
series and they put themtogether and like a legacy.
So, you could totally do aspinoff of characters, throw an
L Kennedy out there and do somekind of like legacy thing, and
(18:43):
then you can just keep it goingforever.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Oh no, but seriously, and it's like half and half
right, like to some.
To some extent you're like I'mready to move on.
It's been a long time, you know, and other ways it's like I'm
not ready to say goodbye.
So, like a spinoff is a coolway of kind of having both.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
True, and you can have books in between.
So you could, you know, branchout for a bit, but then come
back to the characters if youmiss them.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Which is something I'm not good at Like in my mind
I'm like this is four books.
I have to do one, two, three,four.
I'm just like a very orderedperson like that.
Yeah, but someone else was justsaying that Cause I had an idea
for something different and Iwas like, well, I'll get I guess
(19:32):
I'll get to it four books fromnow, because you know I have
three more of these to write.
And they were like, well, why?
I was like, huh, never thoughtof that.
But yeah, I don't know.
So I I do like to leave thingsopen with Beautifully Broken.
I didn't even know if there wasgoing to be a second one.
I didn't like I kind of set itup just in case, but like you
weren't hanging off the edge ofyour seat, you know, in case, I
decided to switch it.
So yeah, I have no problem kindof switching gears, but I do
(19:54):
have a tentative plan, I guess.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Yeah, that makes sense, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Yeah, how about we?
Sorry to go back, you know, Idon't know if you want to share
your writing but yours you saidyours is in a series.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Yes, it is a three book series, but it's going to
have a novella that I'm workingon with a group of friends, and
so we're going to have like anovella collection and it just
happens to kind of tie in to theseries.
So technically it'll be threeand a half.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Oh, that's awesome, Okay, very cool.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
So yeah, it'll be a series.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
We'll see if I like these characters that long, but
no yeah, no, but it's funnybecause I actually said before I
started the boards between uswell, here we are.
Um, after daring destiny, I waslike my next book's gonna be a
standalone, like because daringdestiny was you know, you had to
use it, was it was the samefour characters, like it wasn't
(20:46):
even just the two characters,same all of the same characters.
And now I'm writing four witheveryone that's included.
So here you know, there we arewith that.
But I did.
I do think like I love a goodstandalone too, in terms of like
just one idea and run with itand that's it, yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
I'm really excited on book two to get Drew's
perspective as a player, becauseI feel like it was nice getting
a coach's perspective.
But I think it'll be reallyinteresting to see like that
kind of on the ice, like POV.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Yeah, yeah it's.
It's funny.
I actually was just saying likeI'm surprised there's not more
in it like what I've written sofar.
I mean, obviously there's tonsof hockey in it, but with with
Levi kind of like the premisewas that he was coaching and
Cooper was part of it, so likeLevi kind of had to be there.
You know, with the second bookDrew is obviously a hockey
(21:42):
player, but a lot of it is kindof his life outside of hockey
and so he's not on the ice asmuch as I thought he would be,
but it's still so much, I meanlike in terms of like you know,
locker room and facilities andlike, like, even when he's not
on the ice he's still a hockeyplayer, you know.
But yeah, it's definitelydifferent.
(22:03):
I think it's fun to switch fromthat Cause my husband's a
hockey coach, so to kind of gofrom like what I get from him
all the time to like huh, thisis the other side, you know.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
So whenever you decided to write hockey, were
you initially okay?
So I've talked to a coupleauthors that if their husband
played football or played anykind of professional sport,
they're like so I'm not going todo that book.
What made you decide to tryhockey this time?
Speaker 2 (22:28):
yes, so I I did say, because he's a hockey coach,
that I wasn't going to do hockey.
But like I didn't want it toseem like I just took the easy
way out, did hockey becauseTyler plays hockey or, you know,
coaches hockey and it's reallybig and whatever.
But the characters just reallytalk to you as crazy, as crazy
as that is, and so it wasn'treally like a conscious decision
(22:51):
, it was just like, oh, I havean idea and it happens to be
hockey and so which I'm surecomes from you, kind of write
what you know.
But it wasn't like I was likeall right, now I'm going to
write a hockey romance.
It was like here's thecharacters and they are in
hockey.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
And you just happen to have a built-in proofreader
to like check everything.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Oh, he wants his name on that cover so bad as like a.
He's like even just an asterisk, like right down, like right
here, just like an asterisk, myname.
He really did help me a lot somany times.
He'd be like watching you know,like an NHL game or something
commercial and be like can I askyou a question?
Like I have like a blank in mymanuscript, like to come back
when he like wasn't busy.
(23:31):
He really did help a lot.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
And then so with the opening scene of the boards
between us.
Did the scene first come to youwhenever you started writing,
or did you have to go back andwork on it later?
Speaker 2 (23:43):
No.
So that actually is like thefirst thing that I've written.
I don't, I don't know that I'veever like gone back in one of
the books.
That was the first thing Iwrote and it's funny because we
talk about betas and this is notnecessarily like a bad, a bad
beta person.
But a couple people thoughtthat I should either cut it or
make it a prologue because a lotof it gives a lot of Alex's
(24:07):
backstory.
I'm very glad I didn't do thatand that's, like, you know, a
piece of advice to authors likejust because someone says to
change something, like trustyour gut.
Even if multiple people say tochange something, the story's
yours.
So if you don't like that,don't change it, mind you.
I mean, I had probably eightpeople read it and, like two of
(24:28):
them said this but yeah, cause alot of people have talked about
liking that part and like that,they really like get Alex right
off the jump.
So, yeah, it was the firstthing I wrote and, believe it or
not, a lot of people didn'tlove it, or a couple of people
didn't love it, but I stuck toit.
I thought it was important.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
That's funny, yeah, cause it really sets it from the
jump, so you know exactlywhat's going on, instead of
trying to like guess and piecestuff together.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Yeah, and I didn't want to focus too much on, like,
nick and Alex's past when it'snot about Nick and Alex, it's
about Alex and Levi.
But some people, like I saidand they weren't it wasn't like
they hated the scene, they justwere like, well, if Nick isn't
the MMC, why is he's in thefirst chapter?
So much was kind of theirthought process, which I also
(25:14):
totally understand.
But I didn't want Nick strugstrung throughout the story.
I wanted you to know what wasgoing on from the, from the jump
, like I said, and so that therest of it could be focused on
Alex and Levi.
And I think it accomplishedthat.
Whether or not that'severyone's cup of tea, I'm not
sure, but it was mine, so Iguess, like you said, it's her
(25:37):
story.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
You can decide what you want to do.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Yeah, I just, I just feel like there's something
about liking your story.
You know like you could writethe best book in the world, but
if you changed everything aboutit that you personally liked, I
mean, yeah, you might make moneyoff of it because it might be
the exact story that, like,everyone else wanted, or
whatever, but do you even likeit at your core?
Is that like?
(26:00):
Did you do you feel like it atyour core?
Is that like?
Did you feel like it's stillyour story?
Or did you take 20 otherpeople's opinions and change
everything about it?
So I just feel like you really,at the end of the day, have to
own it, like you have to feellike this is the way I wanted it
to be.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Yeah, it's your name on the cover.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
For sure, and again it might.
Some people might think itwould be better different ways.
I'm not even talking about myspecific book but, like you,
know other stories.
But if the author feels liketheir original idea was like so
peace, you know, broken apart,what's the point?
Speaker 1 (26:31):
True, that's a good way to think about it.
Yeah, I don't know, I'm smartsometimes With Alex and Levi.
They're both very emotionallyguarded, for good reason.
Um, how did you approach kindof building their chemistry,
even though a lot of it withthem is like one step forward
and two steps back?
Speaker 2 (26:52):
yeah.
So I think it's kind of likethe subtleties building that
angst bit by bit, to the pointwhere, like you, it's undeniable
for them, like from their ownperspective, because, like you
said, it is one step forward,two steps back, one step forward
to or you know whatever.
Two steps forward, one stepback.
It's like inch by inch.
(27:13):
But underneath all of thatthere's like this chemistry
that's building and built to thepoint where, like it doesn't
matter if you take 10 steps back, like like you're, that's going
to explode.
So I think, just like thesubtleties, kind of like the
banter, or like the look that hegives, or the comments she
makes, or like the feeling shehas, like those little tiny
(27:36):
things just add up Doesn't needto be like one huge turning
point, you know.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
So then, what do you feel kind of ultimately shifted
them?
Was there like one thing, eventhough it wasn't huge?
Was there kind of like onething that really started to
turn them in the other direction?
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Yeah, I mean they there definitely were big
moments right.
So like there's this, theirfirst kiss, like it's kind kind
of like an effort moment, as weall say, and that definitely had
caused a shift.
But I personally think that waskind of like the tip of the
iceberg.
But Alex really had to likemake that decision.
(28:18):
I think her kind of having thatmoment of like I'm leaning in
and if I'm doing it I'm all in,is what really switched for them
.
So it, the kiss obviously waspart of it.
But I don't even think it waslike, oh, we kissed and now
we're in love, you know, I thinkit was like she had to
internally be okay with it andwhen she gave herself that
(28:41):
permission it switched yeah, itwasn't just the flirting anymore
, it wasn't the fact of hertrepidation that he was somewhat
close to cooper yeah, it wasdeciding.
That makes sense yeah, it waslike I, if I'm doing, if I'm
doing this, I'm doing this andknow, going all in and like
giving herself permission to dothat.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
And what is one detail from the book that you
think that hockey fans inparticular will appreciate but
romance readers could miss?
Speaker 2 (29:11):
So it's so funny, because a lot of people were
like there's a lot of hockey inthis, and I'm like, yeah, that's
the point.
I mean I know some hockeyromances, right.
Like there's a stick on thecover and they call it a hockey.
I get that and people love thatand that's fine.
But I mean, like hockey is whatI know, so there is a lot of
hockey in it.
Um, but I did change, like Ihad more of those details, and I
(29:33):
did change some of them,because a lot of people were a
little confused.
Um, like I think I had, likethey did a celly instead of like
a celebration, like that's soobvious to me what celly meant,
but like six beta readers werelike I don't know what that is.
Um, there was one thing, though, that everyone didn't know what
(29:54):
it was, and I left it anyways.
It's when Cooper and Drew areplaying chill that he says, like
my chill game is top notch,which is just like NHL hockey.
It's just like what the kidscall it yeah and people are like
I don't know what chill is, isthat a game?
And I'm like don't worry aboutit, don't worry about it.
The the real, the reels willget it.
(30:16):
You know, they'll understand.
And I didn't think it was thatbig of a deal to know, if you
didn't get it, you just assumedit was a game and you moved on.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
So yeah, that is hard to try to keep it kind of
rudimentary enough to whereeveryone can understand.
But then you know, for the truefans you get a little bit.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Yeah, and I also think it's funny because there's
certain things in some hockeyromances that like technically,
if you Google them, maybe itcomes up under hockey, but like
that's not really what hockeyplayers do or say.
You know, like my husband, whocoaches hockey and has played
(30:55):
hockey his whole life, would belike what is that?
Because it's it's, it's almostlike um, like conversational
language versus like formallanguage, and so I think a lot
of mine because I'm just likearound it all the time is more
conversational hockey languageand so, yeah, you kind of have
to like pick and choose, but Ikept a couple of things in there
.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Yeah, that makes sense.
It's kind of fun to learn someof some of that kind of on the
other side, Cause I mean if youwatch like interviews and stuff,
you might get some of that, butnot necessarily if you're just
like watching a game or going toa game or just reading hockey
romances, yeah exactly, and Ikind of like that, like oh,
what's that, you know, likewhere it kind of makes you like
think a little bit.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
So just for fun.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Yeah, I mean, there've been so many times
where I will like Googlesomething, cause I'm like wait a
minute, wait, what does thatmean, especially if it's a sport
that I don't know a lot aboutinitially?
Then you learn a little bitmore and you get to Google
things and you're like, oh okay,that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Yeah, well, and like there's a book that uses like
the word kit for like hockeygear.
That's like not a thing likethat.
Like my husband was like I'venever heard of it, and here it's
like I'm pretty sure that'swhat they call it, like overseas
and so again, even that liketechnically, but like over here,
(32:08):
I think like soccer players useit more.
So it's like it depends onwhere the author's from and like
where you know where they'velearned the things that they
know.
So, yeah, it's.
It's again, it's like their ownlittle personal piece and if
they changed it it wouldn't betheirs anymore.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
So that's a really interesting point.
I never would have thought ofthat, but it would have mattered
regionally.
But it totally makes sense.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Yeah, cause I was like wait a second, I never
heard of that.
And then I asked my husband.
He was like I have no idea whatyou're talking about, which is
crazy because he's been you andso we looked it up and
everything that came up withsoccer.
But then if you type in like UKI think it was, I don't even
remember, I could be completelywrong, but it came up like over
there.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
So it yeah, it's funny how it you, it depends.
It's honestly also kind of likeif, um, if someone, it's super
specific example but if someonewere from Texas, not from Texas,
and they put their book inTexas.
There's so many things that,like we say, that no one else
would understand.
And I don't even know how youwould put it into a book, like
everyone says they're fromDallas, even if they're not
really from Dallas.
And so if you say I'm fromDallas and someone's like okay,
where are you actually from?
(33:16):
And they're like oh cool, I'mfrom here, here, here.
But you know, you wouldn't knowthat if you just say I'm from
Dallas, then everyone's notthinking that you actually mean
like real Dallas.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Real.
Oh, that's so funny.
I mean same thing, Like I'm notfrom Philly but I'm right
outside of Philly, and samething.
There are certain things thatyou say, or you know whatever,
and people are like huh, you'relike, nevermind, you don't get
it.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
That is really hard to keep all that, all that
together.
So did you use, like actualgame footage or interviews for
inspiration, or did you keepeverything really fictional?
And how did you pick your teamname?
Speaker 2 (33:54):
So I actually have this problem where I forget that
I am writing fiction and thatthings can be fictional and so I
want everything to be likesuper realistic.
And you know, like to the pointwhere I'm like I'm asking my
husband like well, if he hit thepuck here, would it really
bounce off of that board?
Or, and he was like dude, justwrite it, you know.
(34:19):
So a lot of it is very true,very real.
Um, I watched like YouTubetours of like facilities and,
you know, took notes, like Iactually had him reach out to
like people he knows to see if Icould get into like
professional facilities.
It didn't work out but I waslike I need research.
(34:41):
Um, so most of it is very real.
Um, there are parts where I waslike, okay, I have to make this
fiction.
So here we go.
And then the team name Iactually don't remember how.
I think, honestly, I wasprobably just googling like
sports names and it stuck out tome.
I liked that.
So it's golden city, it'ssupposed to be golden, as in
(35:03):
like you know, like bright andsunrise and something like like
the sun, and so I think like theflames kind of gave that off to
me like the golden flames.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Yeah, you know how like something just feels right,
like a character name orsomething you're like, yeah,
that's it it was always supposedto be that way, yeah, yeah,
exactly, because you can't usereal team names, right, because
they're trademarked.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Yeah, so I couldn't there.
Well, there are like theCalgary flames, but I can't say
that like flames is nottrademarked because it's so
generic.
But I don't know if maybe let'ssay like the flyers, like
flyers are like that's not athing.
Like flames are obviously athing.
But you can, you can use teamnames.
(35:45):
You just can't put it as like.
I couldn't say like the CalgaryFlames, yeah, got it like
together, okay, yeah, and Ithink it's the same with like
colleges and stuff too becauseall that trademark copyright
stuff would be a really funbattle.
Oh my gosh oh my gosh, I know,and then.
But then you have to like,think of, like teams that they
(36:05):
play, and and make sure that youdon't duplicate, unless you
mean to duplicate.
It's a lot.
I have like a running googlelist that's smart.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
And now you have to convince, uh, your other author
friends to write hockey romancesand then just have their teams
play your teams and then thereyou go.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
You don't have to come up with names anymore
someone else just said thattoday they're like they'll just
play the golden city plane and Iactually don't know if anyone
picked up on it, but I have themgoing to grand Oaks, which is
the same city that Ronan boughthis pizza shop in, and, daring
destiny, I didn't catch that.
(36:46):
Oh, wow, okay, yeah, and Alexand Cooper.
Actually, when they're in thehotel, alex is like I heard
there's a really cool pizzaplace nearby and so like in my
head that's Ronan's Pizza Shop.
So like I have a little bit ofthat going on.
Whether or not anyone else willpick up on it I don't know, but
it is the same.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
That's fun.
Yeah, I tend to.
I tend to pick up on thosekinds of things If I'm reading a
physical copy over um oh forsure Over a Kindle copy, so that
makes sense.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
Well, and especially in the same series like daring
destiny is not even part of this, but for me it made sense.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Oh, I like that.
That's so cool.
That's a little invisiblestring, A little.
A little Easter.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
Um, what is your favorite kind of trope to write
within hockey romance or justromance in general, like grumpy
sunshine, fake dating, friendsto lovers, all that kind of
stuff.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
So my favorite is forced proximity.
I'm like obsessed.
I think it's because of that,like you have to have it.
You know, um, which this bookhas.
I wouldn't say it's like one ofits main tropes, but I mean
they're forced to be in the sameplace.
I think, as far as hockeyromance goes now that I'm just
like doing my second one and Iwrite it in almost everything
(37:59):
else too.
But it's different worlds, likejust two totally different
people coming together.
Like I feel like I I rarelywrite like someone from this
town and another girl from thistown.
You know it's like there's youhave NHL coach, single mom.
Like you know he's amillionaire, she is not kind of
thing.
And then obviously the secondbook, it's Brooks a waitress and
(38:22):
Drew's yeah, exactly.
So in some senses they're alwayslike kind of opposite.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
That's a really cool way to think about it.
Yeah, yeah, I like it.
That's really unique.
I like that.
Um, if you could expand onescene into kind of like a full
bonus chapter, which one do youthink it would be in?
Why?
In the boards between us?
Speaker 2 (38:43):
so I'm sure I could come up with a couple, but the
first thing that comes to mindis at the very end, the last
chapter, before the epilogue.
They're at the gala for sparkthe flame, which is kind of like
the culminating event forcooper, even like being involved
with the flames, and cooper isset to like give a speech, but
(39:06):
we don't see it it's.
You know, levi is likeintroducing everything and then
him and Alex kind of go off andthen, like off page, they come
back and there's the speech.
I think I would write what thatspeech is, because I feel like
Cooper is such he's such a smalltechnically, like a small role,
but also huge, like he's thereason that they're even
(39:28):
together, that they were put inthe same place.
Obviously he's Alex's pride andjoy and he's like such a cute
kid.
I just think it would be niceto hear his kind of reflection
on the whole thing, and I'veactually gotten asked that a few
times, like can you make a youknow, a bonus chapter or can you
put it out at some point?
So maybe I will.
(39:48):
That would be like a fun, maybelike anniversary thing to do.
I actually did toy with puttingit in there too, but I went
against it.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
Yeah, that makes sense for the pacing.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
Yeah Well, and I?
I didn't want to end the storyon Cooper.
You know it's hard.
It's a love story, so like asmuch as it would be really cool
and he's important, I didn'twant to end it with a 12 year
old kid.
I wanted to end it with thelovers.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
So is creating a fictional kid really difficult.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
Not for me, because, uh, my, his, like, my background
is in teaching and so I wasaround kids 24, seven, um, I
also have three of them, so it'snot that hard.
Sometimes it's hard to writeone.
That's not my kid's age,because I like, naturally, I
have three little girls, five,four and two.
So I naturally want them tolike, be this, like really young
(40:37):
little.
And you know, so I have afriend who has a nine-year-old,
and Kelly has children, and youknow other friends that have
children, and so I'm like hey,you're, you know your kid's like
12.
Can you read this and tell meif it's something they would say
?
So that's a little hardsometimes, but as far as
actually writing the kid itself,no, it's, it comes pretty
(40:58):
naturally.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
And is there anything that you would like readers to
know about the boards between us?
No, I mean, it comes out.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
July 8th.
Right now it's open forpre-order and I have them, so,
like people are buying them andgetting them already, which is
so exciting.
Yeah, I just I love them.
This is probably like I know Isay every book's my favorite
book, but it means a lot to mebecause of, like, the whole
world that they're in.
So it means a lot to me in adifferent way than the other
(41:26):
books maybe did, and I have anew discreet cover.
I don't know if you saw it.
I'm going to have it heresomewhere.
So I have not that listenerscan necessarily see this, but I
have, like, the character coverand the discreet cover now.
So that's so exciting, becauseI didn't do that with my last
book.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
What made you decide to do the discreet cover?
Speaker 2 (41:45):
I think because I knew this was going to be a
series like Beautifully Broken.
I didn't even know if I wasgoing to do another one, Daring
Destiny.
I knew it was the end.
I just love when books have theoption.
You know, if you really love it, you grab both.
If you don't love thecharacters, you grab the
discreet.
If you, you know, love thecharacters, you grab the
characters.
So I just wanted, I just wantedoptions, and even for me just
(42:06):
to like this four book series islike a big deal, I feel like.
So I just wanted to dosomething different.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
So all four books are going to have discrete cover
options.
Speaker 2 (42:15):
Yes, so all of them will have the characters that
are similar, like same artistand everything for this one, and
then the discreets will allkind of go together with their
character, like the colors andstuff, but they'll all be more
this style.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
Nice, Yay, that's really exciting.
Yeah, I'm excited.
Thank you for being on andthat's it for today.
Thanks for listening to when ILeft Off a bookish podcast.
You can sign up for Cassandra'snewsletter, purchase her novel
and purchase all of her novelsin the links through the show
notes.
You.
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