May 18, 2025 • 52 mins
In this episode, we meet with Maryann Walters who navigates life as a true digital nomad, exploring Europe with her husband, their dog, and their bicycles.
Maryann's journey began with determination in 2020, when she specifically sought out remote work that would accommodate a travel lifestyle. After securing a remote position and spending three years renovating their Reno home to make it rental-ready, she and her husband embarked on their European adventure, starting in Belgium.
Their time in Belgium revealed a cycling paradise where the sport is revered like football in America. But their journey was shaped by visa constraints – as Americans, they could only stay in the European Union for three months without special documentation.
This limitation led them to creative solutions, including stays in non-EU countries like Andorra (a tiny nation between France and Spain) and Bosnia to "reset" their visa clock. Each location brought unique challenges and rewards and stark differences in infrastructure and environment across countries.
Through it all, Maryann has maintained her professional commitments while forming deep connections to places they lived for months at a time – a depth of experience inaccessible to typical tourists. Her story reveals both the extraordinary freedom of the digital nomad lifestyle and its very real challenges, offering valuable insights for anyone dreaming of breaking free from geographical constraints.
Ready to reimagine what's possible with remote work and international living? Follow us on Instagram @wherenext_podcast for more inspiration and practical advice from travelers who've taken the leap into location independence.
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Hosts
Carol Springer: https://www.instagram.com/carol.work.life
Kristen: https://www.instagram.com/team_wake/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hi, welcome to our podcast when Next Travel with
Kristen and Carol.
I am Kristen and I am Carol,and we're two long-term friends
with a passion for travel andadventure.
Each episode, we interviewpeople around the globe to help
us decide where to go next.
Welcome, marianne, and you area dear friend of Kristen's and I
(00:37):
understand you travel the world, so we're excited to hear what
you're going to share today.
Yes, thanks so much, mariannefor being here.
So I've known Marianne sinceMarianne for being here.
So I've known Marianne sincewhat?
2015 or something.
We met in our companies andjust hit it off and I've always
enjoyed our conversations.
We haven't talked in a littlewhile.
(00:59):
And then we talked and you wereover in Europe, central Europe,
traveling with your husband andyour dog and your bikes and
going and sending me theseamazing, gorgeous pictures of
all over and this podcast.
We started what four years agoand it was a lot about you know,
traveling and living anywherein the world digital nomad, and
you embody that more thanactually a lot of that we've
(01:21):
talked about, and so I was sothrilled to have you on this
just because I'd love to see youand catch up and everything and
we'll have to catch upafterwards, but also about your
amazing journey and when itstarted and where you're at.
I know you're here locallyright now, or actually in Reno,
I think right now.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Yeah, yeah, for a couple more days, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
In Reno.
Okay, that's convenient.
Okay, yeah For this podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Like a little Lyft driver asked me from the airport
, you know like oh so where doyou live?
And I was like nowhere.
He was like he couldn't get hishead around this.
He was like no, no, no, no, no,you live somewhere.
And I'm like, no, I don't liveanywhere.
Well, you do have a house, I do, but I don't live there.
I have people living thereCorrect Exactly who are really
(02:11):
happy there and do not wish tohave me hanging around.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Right, exactly.
And before we start into youramazing adventure because I know
right now you're here locally,you're interviewing for a job, a
remote job, and then you'll goback, or you may be coming,
which I thought possiblypotentially to Oakland, which
would be amazing because then Iwould see you and that would be
fun, but that you startbeginning in your journey when
(02:39):
you and I had talked aboutrenting out your house because
of what you were doing and theanticipation even years before
about that journey, and just soour audience can get an idea if
they want to do that, you knowhow did you set that up and make
that work for you?
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Yeah, that's a good question.
So this actually started Ithink it started seriously in
2020, where I actively soughtout a job that would allow me to
travel, and so that was thefirst step.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
And your husband was on board with you and he's
retired.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Yep, he's a retired bicycle racer and bike mechanic.
He does a good job, kind of,you know, leading the home
renovations and taking care ofall of the stuff.
That doesn't include, you know,working at a corporate job, so
that includes all of ourfour-legged children.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
And how many four-legged children do you have
?
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Because I know, right now it's just one dog in Europe
with us.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
We left our cat behind, but as soon as we land
and we know where we're going tobe living for more than a month
at a time, we plan to reclaimthe cat, but as soon as we find
a place to land, like I said, wehope to acquire more animals.
So okay.
So it started with lookingspecifically for a job, because
I knew that you know the currentjob that I had, it was very US
(03:57):
based.
There was no chance not only of, there was no chance of being
able to work for one of theinternational divisions or an
office, and no chance of beingable to go overseas for more
than you know the time you takeon vacation and, being Americans
, we never go on vacation,except for Kristen, who gets to
go hiking with Girl Scouts inAugust, and I'm incredibly
jealous.
(04:18):
One of these days I'm goingwith you, yes, so so we started
with that.
So I started actively seeking ajob that was remote only and was
okay with travel, and at thesame time, we got really serious
about our house renovations.
So that took about.
That took exactly three years.
From that point on, I didmanage to get a job with a
(04:41):
remote company in August of 2021.
And the house was ready to goby August of 2023.
You know the process of youknow, filling an entire house
and God knows how many storageunits with all of our stuff and
my husband's stuff and myfamily's stuff, because somehow,
(05:01):
like every book my family hasever owned is, for some reason,
with me.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
I have a question, marianne.
So you're saying that thereason you renovated the house
was because you were going tostart working remote and you
want to rent it out?
Yes, so you wanted to get it inprime shape.
Okay, got it.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
We installed air conditioning and a heat pump in
it, and that was part of theexercise, as well as actually
installing installation on ahouse that was built in 1937
that had sorry insulation, hadno insulation whatsoever, and
getting air conditioning in ahouse in Reno, nevada, it's kind
of pretty essential these days.
I don't think it used to be,but it is now, and it's really
(05:39):
unusual for the old houses inthe Midtown district in Reno to
have air conditioning, and so wethought this is how we're going
to differentiate ourselves.
You know this will be a placewhere people can live and, you
know, not have to huddle in aroom somewhere.
You know, like trying to getthe little mobile unit working.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Well, it's really a nice central location.
I feel like I met you therewhile we were going to rest or
something Like you can walkeverywhere.
It's right downtown, right.
Yeah, it's super walkable.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
It's a great place to live.
It really is, especially ifyou're not worried too much
about the kind of stuff that myfriends with young children
worry about, which is like whatschool they're going to go to
and all this stuff.
If you don't really worry aboutthat, it's a wonderful place to
live.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Oh, okay, I've never considered Reno, yeah, and it's
really close to Lake Tahoe.
I mean it's a lot of outdooractivities that come with living
where you're at.
It's far enough removed soyou're not totally in the snow,
but I think you probably stillget some snow.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Yeah, yeah.
And if you ever get tired ofwinter, you just have to drive
over the mountains and go toCalifornia.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Right, exactly Just a couple hours.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
You don't get the same kind of seasonal depression
that you do.
If you like, say, live in NewEngland or you know Pennsylvania
.
Yeah, once it gets cold anddark, it stays that way, you
until april maybe absolutely so.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Then we're in uh, you're august 2023, you've got
your house renovated, you have ajob that's remote, and uh, was
it at that point where you said,okay, let's start planning, and
you, you took off shortly afterthat, or what was that like?
Speaker 2 (07:23):
So we went to Belgium in the beginning of September
2023, and we stayed there forthree months, which is as long
as you are allowed to staylegally without doing any other
paperwork as an American.
Right now in Europe, I haveheard that the rules are going
to change, but they're not goingto change for at least another
(07:44):
six months, so for now, that'sstill the deal.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Well, that's not that bad because, if I'm remembering
correctly, that was quite apivotal trip and a very
beautiful biking community whichyou and your husband are very
involved in.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
And you know, we were out there every single day
riding our bicycles, even thoughit literally rained every
single day from October 15th to,like the day I left, on
December 1st.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
We didn't care we were still out there riding our
bicycles, just absolutely sothrilled to be there, you know,
I mean from real winter.
It was like it's not that cold,it's 45 degrees out and it's
pouring rain, it's fine.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
And everyone else Tough cookies.
Also, did everyone else bike inthe rain?
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Only the pros.
Everyone I saw was like a worldtour pro.
If I saw another woman, youknow I'd be like, oh, I wonder
who that is looking on Strava,just seeing who would pass me.
You know, you know I'd be like,oh, I wonder who that is
looking on Strava, just seeingwho would pass me.
You know, it was very humblingin many ways to be around those
kinds of cyclists, and we raninto them in Andorra too.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Oh wow, Where's?
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Andorra.
It's in the Pyrenees, it's atiny country between France and
Spain and it is not part of theEU.
Oh, that's interesting, I'll getthere in a second, because it's
kind of part of the second partof our trip, which is, while I
was over there in Belgium, I wasactually laid off from my job
and I agreed to stay on and dosome extra work for the same
(09:18):
company for a little while justto see, you know, what else
would come up and help them outwith some transitions in the
compliance team space that theywere working with.
And so when we came back to theUnited States, you know, we
thought we'd rent like anapartment for six months or
something like that, and we justfound that it was just
impossibly expensive compared towhat we've been used to living
(09:42):
in in Belgium, and so weliterally moved into our little
tiny 15-foot travel trailer andwe lived in that travel trailer
in one of, you know, one ofthree local state parks all
winter long until we went backto Europe in May.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Wow, yeah, it's so great to just think differently
and save money, and then I'msure you guys could go different
places.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
It's the only way you can live in this part of the
world for like $1,200 a monthand live that comfortably.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
You know, stay at a state park and some of them.
You have to move on every twoweeks but you can kind of cycle
around and we stayed at a placekind of halfway between Reno and
Tahoe for a great part of theyear.
That was a an RV park.
That was really nice oh nice,you guys have an RV.
Uh, we sold it before we wentback to Europe okay um, we ran
(10:33):
that thing into the ground.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
It was like not really, uh, seaworthy anymore
yes, so now give it to the theBurning man people.
That's close by right right,right.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
We ended up selling it for like $2,000.
I can't believe somebody evengave us $2,000 for it.
It was literally like worthnothing.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Well, it's a roof over your head, doesn't have to
move.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Yeah, I mean my side of the bed leaked, but you know
we figured it out.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
It's a series in Belgium.
I was in the biking communityand you mentioned just kind of
hinted at the pros.
What has the pros?
I know we talked offline alittle bit, but figured just to
share it here what makes thepros go to Belgium?
What was so special aboutBelgium?
Why did you love it?
And, if I'm rememberingcorrectly, that was the place
(11:22):
that you really want to go backto you and your husband
remembering correctly.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
That was the place that you really want to go back
to, you and your husband.
Yeah, absolutely, and part ofit is because we spent a lot of
time there and it really takeslike three months to get to know
a place, and so we had thebenefit of being there for three
months in the fall.
So by the time we came back inMay, you know, we immediately,
like you know, started makingreally, really good friends and
kind of knew all the places wewanted to be and where we wanted
(11:47):
to ride and kind of getting allthat out of our system.
You know, finding the goodrestaurants, etc.
Finding the good, good housesto live in, um, meeting people
who might like, for example,have like a place to stay, you
know, in like the barn in theback of their property, instead
of having to go through Airbnb,oh nice, so, yeah, so part of
what made it so wonderful for uswas just spending a lot of time
(12:10):
there.
Yeah, but also is that, you know, in Belgium, cycling is like
football in America and cyclingin America is like cycling in
America.
Okay, in America is likecycling in America.
Okay, yeah, um, I mean, it's,it's the national sport, it's
(12:33):
it's in the not, and not just umcommuting by bicycle, like in
the Netherlands or Germany, butlike actually racing bicycles,
and so we didn't see a whole lotof it when we were there in the
fall Um.
but when we eventually found ourway to the right place in
Flanders, in the FlemishArdennes it's where all the very
famous hill climbs are from theTour of Flanders, and they're
all cobbled, they're made ofcobblestones and they're
(12:54):
absolutely incredibly difficultand steep.
There's one that I still cannotget up on my gravel bike.
It's like, yeah, it's 24% grade.
I'm like like super cobbled,and it goes on for just like
just a few too many feet.
You know it'd be for me to beable to get up it, but that's
the only one I can't get up, andthat's the copenberg um.
(13:16):
So you know they all have thesefamous names.
Some of half of them are namedafter the famous cyclists from
this.
You know 60s and 70s and 80s,yeah, and of course, this is the
hometown of Eddie Merckx, thegreatest bicycle rider that's
ever lived.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Very cool.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
So it's just embodies the sport, not just for road,
but also for cyclocross, whichis a bicycle sport that I think
is practically dead in theUnited States.
As far as I can tell, allpeople in the United States ever
want to do is do triathlons.
Boring, it's what I do, butit's all good Triathlons are fun
, but it's not the same thing asbike racing.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
No, not at all.
It's so cool, I was gonnaexercise what's that?
Speaker 2 (14:06):
it's exercise.
Exercise is really good and Ilove exercise.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Yes so what's your passion about bicycling that you
love so much?
That I mean because because youget to explore and like travel
for so long well, there's twokinds.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
There's bike, right, and then there's racing, and
bike racing is a craft, you know.
It is a finely tuned sport.
Those that are really good atit are, you know, performing
works of art when they're outthere, that's as a fan.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yeah, as a cyclist, I mean, it's wonderful to ride
your bicycle everywhere to seethe city in a way that you never
get.
You never get you know you orjust the countryside in a way
that you don't see from a carand you can't see when you're
walking, because you know youdon't really want to walk for 18
miles, you know, but you couldeasily, like go for an 18 mile
bike ride and get to see.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Yeah, I've heard of some of these like cruise, like
river cruises in europe, whereyou you bike in the day and then
the cruise goes along and holdson to all your stuff and then
you sleep in the cruise ship atnight and so you're hitting town
by town but then you're bikingso you don't have to do loops or
anything, you just keep going.
I like that.
(15:16):
I think it would be amazing.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
And we got really good at it.
My husband part of it is becausehe's not really afraid of
anything and that helps becauseI'll be like I don't want I'm
(15:40):
going to get lost, you know.
And we went for a bike ride froma campground in Milan and we
had a great time and we foundfine roads to ride on in the
middle of that, you know,crowded, it's just, it's a, it's
a very special place and, likeyou know, it's amazing to just
be in a country where everysingle person you see on a
bicycle, whether they're, likeyou know, eight year olds that
have better bike handling skillsthan like any woman in the
amateur racing field inCalifornia, have, California
(16:06):
have.
Or you see an old woman goingriding her bicycle to the store,
you know, to get this enormousvat of mayonnaise which she has,
like, strapped to the back ofher rack, you know, on her bike.
All of their bikes fit themperfectly and you just know.
You know, because you noticelike people just on bikes, you
know, riding around, whetherit's like DUI people or just
people in the United States, andlike everyone's riding a bike,
it's not the right size for them, you know, and that's one thing
(16:30):
you notice in Belgium isthey're all.
Their seat heights are allperfect and they'll have
absolute perfect cycling form.
You know, and it just comesfrom a country.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Oh my God, genetically in them.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Yeah, there's a lot of genetics going on.
The um, the, the current um.
Well, he lost the worldchampionship to the Slovenian
kid.
But the current great out thereis a guy named Mathieu van der
Poel and his father was namedAdrian van der Poel, which is
also the name of our dog, Audrey.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
And his mother.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
I don't remember the name of his mother but it's like
, literally, like he's got, likehe's like the grandson of this
one, like most famous cyclistthat ever lived.
He's Dutch, but he grew up inBelgium and like his father and
like it's the same like patternthat they look for in racing
horses where they're like thishorse is going to win.
You know he's got like thatheritage and that genetics and
(17:20):
and you know he's he's one ofthe strongest guys in the world.
Wow, that's amazing and it justcomes from this tradition of
you know, belgian and Dutchfamilies and how strong they can
be, and the women too, like thefastest women in the world, are
also from Belgium.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Oh, interesting.
So do they get it from theBelgian chocolate Super biking?
Powers there's something aboutthat.
Can we eat that?
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Well, and it's funny too, because when I say that
it's like football, like evenpeople who are sitting there
like drinking like unbelievableamounts of beer at these bike
races and smoking cigarettes,they love to smoke.
You know, they're also hugecycling fans and some of our
best friends in Belgium are notcyclists they love to smoke.
You know, they're also hugecycling fans and some of our
best friends in Belgium are notcyclists.
They're people that smoke, thatwe met because we like to sit
(18:10):
outside, you know, our favoritelike cafe and at the same time
as us.
And one day they sat next to usand they were like, what's your
story?
And we're like, oh, we'reAmerican.
And they were like what, whatare you doing in this tiny
village in Belgium?
What was the village you werein?
It was called Flobeck Flobeckand it has a local name.
(18:34):
The locals call it Flobiza.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Is that the one that's the home of Eddie Burks,
or is that a different?
No, eddie Murks is actually.
I'm not sure where he's from.
I think he might even be fromWallonia.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Is it Eddie Merckx or Burks?
You said I should know that andI'm going to bicycle hell for
not knowing the town.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
What's his name?
Burks or Burks Burks, merckxwith an M.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
M-E-R-C-Y-X.
Oh, I'm not that close Okay.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
That sounds incredible.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
But I do know that Greg LeMond lived in Kortrijk,
which is pretty close toFlaubert In Ronse Ronse.
So is your travel very bikemotivated.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
You want to go explore this place on a bike or
that place on a bike, or youjust go explore, and of course,
you can bring your bikes justbecause that's what you do.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
No well, it was a first right.
I mean, we ended up hanging outlong enough in Belgium just to
realize that this part of theworld is like this is where we
want to be, this is where ourhearts are, this is home for us.
Oh, okay.
And then we ran into visaconstraints.
So initially I was there, I wasgoing to get a job working for
(19:45):
the same company.
It would be an on-site job inPortugal but it didn't work out.
Oh okay, like we can't actuallysponsor your visa.
Um.
The plan had always been likeoh yeah, let's go live in
portugal until we're eu citizensand then we'll just go back to
belgium and then I'll be able tofind a job, no problem, because
(20:08):
I'll be an eu citizen and noone will have to give me visa
sponsorship.
Um.
But that didn't work out, andso I actually ended up
eventually quitting my job.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Um what kind of work were you doing?
Speaker 2 (20:20):
um, I'm a uh supply chain operations procurement oh,
okay, all right, so it's notlike professional.
I was working in the in legaloperations oh, okay, oyster,
he's very modest.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
She's a pretty, pretty skilled job.
Yeah, she's very skilled,unbelievable, has done so much
for so many very large companiesand anyone that ever gets her
is extremely lucky.
I said what would do and buildwas incredible, the way her
detail and what she knowsunbelievable.
It was really impressive.
(20:56):
So she's very modest, but yes,she kicks butt.
Let's just say that.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Yes.
So at that point, you know wewere going to Portugal and we
just kept running into these.
We still have a European bankaccount that we can't really
access because, like, we'venever been able to get like the
PIN number working.
I mean, there's the bureaucracyand troubles of like not really
(21:28):
having an address that peoplecan send stuff to.
You is like it's.
It's really a part of thestruggle of being a digital
nomad.
You know a lot of places you'llstay.
You won't be able to receivepackages or mail because you're
in, like, the back of someone'sapartment or you're in some
weird building.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Oh, I never thought about that.
Ok, got to buy local then Iguess.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Yeah, and when I we lived in andorra, nothing could
get shipped to you, nothingbecause, um, they would like
derail it and always open it forcustoms purposes.
And try to see if people were,you know, trying to get around
the rules of a tax haven bybringing in cheap goods without
paying the duties.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Can you tell me about Portugal, like, is it easy to
become a citizen in Portugal?
That that was your plan?
No oh okay, well, just not yetan EU citizen.
I have a feeling that's goingto happen for sure.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
The path to citizenship in Portugal that I
had to take was something thatthey call.
Sometimes they call it theretirement visa, but what it is
is that you have to have anincome separate from like.
It can't just be one lump sumof money.
You have to have a recurringincome of not very much money,
only 850 euro a month, and then,if there's two of you, 12, half
(22:36):
of that, so I think maybe itwas 1250 or 1200, euro.1,200 or
€1,200.
I mean, they're close to thesame.
Right now Euros are a littlemore expensive, but you had to
have that just kind of coming in.
So that's why so many people inPortugal are retired.
That's pretty easy and we wereable to show that we had that in
terms of our rental income on anet level.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Quite on the gross level.
And so we ran into problemswith our visa that way and plus,
like it was all tied into medoing this job that I just I
didn't really want to do.
At that point, you know, I I'dtaken a job um, a little, a
couple notches lower than mycapability because, you know, I
(23:21):
thought it would be worth it tolive in Europe and get the
opportunity, but it didn't seemstable and it didn't seem like
something that was going to bearound for five years and it
just didn't seem like the rightopportunity for me.
So, yeah, so when I found outhow incredibly difficult it was
to get the visa and spend allthat time in Portugal for a job
I didn't necessarily know that Ireally wanted, you know, to
(23:45):
live in a place that we didn'treally necessarily want to live
in, I mean not for a long periodof time.
It just seemed to make sense toabandon that entire process.
And we did after we were prettyfar in.
I still have national tax IDsand bank accounts in Portugal.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Wow, that's crazy.
So did you spend some time inAndorra.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah, so we thought that once we applied for the
visas in Portugal, we'd be ableto stay in Portugal.
I had like five people tell methat that was the case and maybe
it would have been better notto ask the lawyers.
But the lawyers said that isnot the case, you cannot take
her.
And so we were getting ready tobe done with our three-month
(24:27):
period in the EU, which Portugalis part of, and it was so
confusing because they wantedyou to have a house with a lease
to get the visa.
But how are you supposed tofind a house or a lease to a
place to stay that you want tostay in um unless you're allowed
to stay there?
And find a place to live?
yeah, yeah, catch 22, check methere like airbnb and like rent
(24:49):
a place that way, and then showthat sure, but we'd already been
in belgium for a month and ahalf, you know, buying the car
and taking care of uh otherbusiness.
Um headed to portugal, and soit was around.
Then we realized that we weregoing to run out of our time at
the end of August, and there wasjust no way this visa was going
to happen before then.
So that's when we went toAndorra.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
I'm looking at a map here.
How did you hear?
I can't believe.
I've never heard of this.
We've done France a couple oftimes.
We've been in the south ofFrance.
We've done Europe.
We've been to the south ofFrance.
We've done Europe.
We've done the Santiago.
We've never heard anyonemention Andorra, or maybe I
didn't realize it was a country.
That's crazy.
I've heard of it but I don'tknow much about it.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
It's mostly like it's a huge ski resort.
It's pretty windy.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
It's like right between France and Spain.
It almost looks like it's onthe border between the two of
them.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
It is, it is yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
And is it France, or is it Spain, or is?
Speaker 2 (25:45):
it, it's its own country.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Yeah, you know why?
Because as I look closerthere's a little circle, a tiny
little circle with an arrowright on Andorra, so it is its
own country.
So it's like Lake Tahoe is itsown country almost probably,
kind of like a little ski resortarea.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
No, this is a little bit more like Guam, I would say.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Okay, and it's not part of the EU.
Oh, so you can go in the EU forthree months, but then you have
to leave and then come back.
And so you went to Andorra.
How long did you have to staythere for then?
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Well, you can stay in Andorra for up to 90 days.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Three months Okay.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
As an American without a visa, but the rules in
Europe have changed a littlebit.
You have to go for longer thanthree months now when you leave
the EU before you can come backagain.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
And it's different in every country.
We kind of got different rulesin all the different places, but
we tried in general to not staytoo long in a European country.
We would have liked to havestayed longer in, say, portugal.
We would have liked to staylonger in Croatia and Slovenia.
They were all part of the EU,so we really were pushing
against that time limit.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
So we went to.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Andorra, and the reason why we didn't leave, why
we left Andorra, was not becausewe were in danger of our visas
expiring.
It's because the snow wascoming, oh, okay, and we were
not there for a ski vacation andwe lived at 7,500 feet.
It would basically be likebeing, you know, living at a ski
(27:16):
resort.
Oh okay.
With that much snow.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Not so great for biking even, and I'm sure you
guys would bike in it.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
But yeah, again, all the world tours were in andorra
um never saw a normal person ona bicycle the whole time I was
there.
Yes, really yeah, it was likeaugust and, yeah, everyone was
there between the tour de franceand the vuelta de spania, which
, for the first time in likeever in the last 80 years,
(27:46):
didn't go to Andorra.
I was so disappointed, oh wow.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Yeah.
So which countries are the bestfor biking?
You know I'm probably most ofthe listeners are not at the pro
racing level.
Is there big advantages for thenormal layperson to bike in
specific?
Speaker 2 (28:04):
countries.
I would definitely recommendthe normal layperson ride a
bicycle in Belgium.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Yeah, the only reason why we always saw pros out
there is because it was winter.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
In spring and summer there's just vast hordes of like
group rides everywhere likegroups of cyclists with 100, 200
people in them just riding.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
And they're on the roads or they do like a lot of
off-road, like mountain theylike mountain biking there, but
they're also.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
The roads are set up.
Every single road is a bikelane oh, really okay.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
How about slovenia?
That's uh, it's my heritage.
I haven't been there yet.
I'm really dying to go.
Did you spend much time there?
Speaker 2 (28:37):
no um oh, okay, beautiful campground that we
stayed at.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Oh, it was a campground.
Okay, did you guys have like avan, or you actually camp,
camped?
Speaker 2 (28:48):
We bought a cheap tent at Decathlon which is like
the European REI.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
And we had our car and we pitched a tent.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Okay, awesome, so you had a car throughout Europe, or
did you train somewhere?
Speaker 2 (29:02):
We bought the car in Belgium.
We ran into a lot of red tape.
We managed to get it registeredeventually in Andorra, yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Oh, wow.
And then what'd you do afteryour time was up?
Speaker 2 (29:13):
So we left Andorra and at that point, you know, in
terms of the question of whatwas driving us, I was just
applying for jobs.
At that point I, you know I nolonger had any income coming in,
except for a little bit fromour rental property.
So we just decided to live ascheaply as we could outside the
Europe in a place we could driveto.
So, that's what led us toBosnia.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Oh, wow OK.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Yeah, oh, wow, okay.
And we were like, oh, let'sjust go there and check it out.
And then we started seeing allthese YouTube videos about all
these people who clearly putabsolutely zero attention to
politics.
Being like this is the bestplace ever.
Yay, this is our favorite newtourist destination, trebinje,
bosnia.
And it wasn't, you know, if youweren't a tourist, that was
(30:21):
there in the summer.
It was actually a little hardliving there.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Um, why is that?
Is it language or?
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Language is difficult , um the, the culture there, um
people are not naturallyfriendly.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Um, I mean, they're not really in the Netherlands or
Belgium either, but if you'rethere for long enough, they
eventually, you know, you canweasel your way in once they
figure out you're not a tourist,but you know we really
struggled in Bosnia.
We spent most of our time inRespublica Srpska, which is the
Serbian section of Bosnia.
Okay, we did go to Sarajevo.
(30:55):
There were just like smallthings about it not being part
of the EU that were verynoticeable.
There were just like smallthings about it not being part
of the EU that were verynoticeable.
I would say the big trash andthe trash like the trash
everywhere, and then the fielddogs and cats.
I mean, anyone who's been toLatin America probably has a
little more experience withthose two.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
It's very India-like almost.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Yeah it's a little it's pretty heartbreaking if
you're a dog person.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Because the dogs are they're not.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Like you know, in America, or even in Portugal,
like all the stray dogs werelike the same breed, you know,
and they were just clearly somekind of like super mutt, you
know that is accustomed toliving on the streets.
Or you know, in America they'reall pit bulls and stuff.
You know they were really nicebreeds of dogs, you know, like
in many cases like purebred dogsyou're not used to seeing like
(31:46):
a golden retriever living on thestreet.
You know yeah, oh wow yeah yeah,labradoodles, yeah like
friendly, beautiful dogs, youknow big little I mean mostly
big.
I didn't see many little onesokay, um and the cats too.
Cats were so friendly um, itwas really hard to not take them
(32:08):
with us oh, I can imagine, Iwould want to and then also the
pollution too.
You know, everyone in bosnia isdriving a 1984 volkswagen with a
diesel engine.
Oh, and even though we were onthe Mediterranean sometimes, I
mean it usually wasn't that bad,but sometimes it could be
really, really bad the furtheryou go into the mountains, which
(32:29):
is the entire country, the morethe pollution hangs in the
valleys.
I mean it smells like sulfur.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
It's bad, it's really bad.
It's like something that youdon't ever smell in America.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Okay, what about Croatia?
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Croatia was gorgeous.
Okay, but it's part of the EUOkay.
We could ride our bicycles.
Where we lived in Bosnia, wecould ride our bicycles to the
border of Croatia.
We could see the Adriatic Seaand Dubrovnik and have coffee
looking at the ocean.
Oh nice we didn't actually rideour bikes through customs that
much, because every now and thenthey gave you a hard time and
(33:06):
wanted to see a passport, and wedidn't want to burn any days in
the EU.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Oh, I see, oh smart.
Okay, you're not in there ifyour passport's not stamped.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
I am.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
Oh, okay, very good.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
And from then we went to Montenegro.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Oh yeah, I don't really think, but that's uh, is
that kind of near Croatia, yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Yeah, it needs to do it Also a former Yugoslav.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Right, yeah, I'm Yugoslavian by descent, and so
now it's like I think we'remainly from Slovenia, but you
know there's Croatia, and whatelse did you say it was?
Speaker 2 (33:43):
The Serbs.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
The Serbs yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Yeah, the Serbs live in a lot of different countries,
like Montenegrins.
They're ethnically Serbs, okay,and of course Serbia is mostly
Serbs, and then Croatia ismostly Croatians, because they
kicked out or killed all theSerbs.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
And all the Serbs in Bosnia have been killing the
Bosniaks, who are the BosnianMuslims.
Oh, okay, he's joined in thatas well.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
I need to read some history.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
It got pretty ugly and you can really tell Like.
I spent only a couple days inBelgrade in Serbia, and Serbia
itself is not a place where youknow people hold on to the past.
I think it's really, you knowit's a pretty modern, pretty
friendly place.
Oh, okay, that's not thefeeling you get necessarily all
(34:35):
the time when you're in Bosnia.
You really feel the tensions,the ethnic tensions still
between the groups.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Oh, okay, wow, so did you.
Oh sorry, oh, go ahead.
I was just going to say I thinkMontenegro, if I'm remembering
correctly, was one of yourfavorites.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Yeah, yeah, we did love it.
We lived in Sotinia andactually this is crazy A week
after we left, there was like amass killing with a gun in
Satinia.
This is like a tiny village.
We were like we could notbelieve it.
When we read it in the news Didthey say why?
He was some ex-army guy.
Wow, so not just in.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
America?
Huh, I was going to say, was hein cahoots with the guy from
what?
In front of the Trump Towerwith the no, and then in the New
Orleans?
Maybe there was a trifecta orsomething going on.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
It was an isolated incident.
I didn't even know that theywere allowed to have guns in
Montenegro.
I mean, I never saw any.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Yeah, maybe they weren't.
How long were you in Montenegrofor then?
Speaker 2 (35:41):
We were there for a month and a couple months.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
We would have stayed longer, except we decided that
things were kind of coming to ahead with my job applications.
Okay.
We decided that we should moveon to Ukraine if we truly wanted
to volunteer in Ukraine beforeI was going to end up having to
start working for a company.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Yeah, wow, what kind of volunteer work did you do.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
Well, I never made it .
I got arrested on thePolish-Ukrainian border by the
Polish police.
What was that?
I got arrested at thePoland-Ukrainian border by the
Polish police because I did nothave an international driver's
permit, which I had no idea Ineeded.
Which?
Speaker 1 (36:23):
had not come up for driving.
What did that look like?
What happened?
Speaker 2 (36:30):
and the police were really nice, like even they
thought it was a shakedown.
Um, like a bunch of like thewomen like on the police force
like kept riding in the backwith me in the cars, I wouldn't
feel like I was getting arrested.
Oh gosh, that's my other halfI'm polish.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
Yeah, I've been done.
Oh yeah, well, in fact myhusband's still there.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
He's not going to ukraine until he's going to
ukraine on sunday.
Because when I came to amer Igot him his international
driver's permit, which is thisBS cardboard document with like
a poorly trimmed passport phototape to it.
I mean it's so ridiculous.
I mean there's no like, there'snothing behind it.
(37:09):
Oh my gosh that's hilarious.
You get from AAA.
Oh, I think I've heard aboutthat before.
Yeah, it costs 20 bucks, 12 ifyou let them take your passport
photos.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Okay, Is there any big consequence of getting
arrested?
You just they like slap yourwrist.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Interrogation for my punishment and I was like kind
of giggling at the police'sEnglish, you know, and they were
just kidding Now we willconduct your interrogation for
your punishment.
And then I actually saw thedocument and it really said on
it she was reading it.
They gave me an English copy,English version of this document
.
It's great.
I'm going to frame it.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
That is an awesome story.
That's so cool.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Yeah, I mean, I'm sure you're a little nervous at
the time, but I had to write aletter to the judge and they're
either going to give me a fineActually, I haven't gotten the
letter back yet.
They're either going to give mea fine or they're going to ban
me from driving in Poland forsix months, or some combination
thereof, or they could throw thewhole thing out and they didn't
(38:13):
even know if I had to.
Like I was trying to figure outif I had to go to court and
they're like well, we've neverreally done this before, so we
don't know.
no, someone, just on a whim,decided to press yeah, just on a
whim, it wasn't really thepolice's fault.
Like as soon as the like thethe charges had been you know,
like clear that I was drivingwithout an irrational driver's
(38:34):
permit in poland, like I guessthe police had been.
You know, like clear, that Iwas driving without an
international driver's permit inPoland, like I guess the police
had no choice.
So I've been stuck in Polandover Christmas.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Oh, my goodness, oh just like a month ago.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
Yeah, oh you just got back.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
Oh my gosh, she's here just interviewing, and then
she's are you going to go backit?
Speaker 2 (38:54):
all depends, yeah, yeah.
So if I don't get a job, I'mgoing to go back to Europe and
join him and we'll get anotherthree months in Belgium, keep
applying for places.
And if I do get a job, thenhopefully it's a remote job and
I'll be able to go over thereand hang out with him and work.
And hopefully it's a remote joband I'll be able to go over
there and hang out with him andwork.
But if I get a job that's not aremote job, then I'll probably
(39:17):
just go out there for a coupleof weeks, take vacation and help
him move home, and we'll bemoving somewhere in the United
States.
Okay, very open ended right now.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
Oh, that's so exciting.
I love that.
So, living in Belgium, do yourent then by the month?
How do you do?
Speaker 2 (39:35):
your housing.
So we boarded with a family fora significant time over there
and we paid by the month.
And Airbnb is hard to find inthe villages there and it's kind
of expensive.
Short-term leases tend to belike three to six months.
Those are in Brussels and theytend to be for, like you know,
(39:59):
diplomats and people working forthe government.
Those are very accessible inBrussels but in the village it's
hard to find places you mighthave to find like an overly
expensive Airbnb until you kindof meet people and figure out.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
Okay, you got to get the lay of the land.
Someone knows someone.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
Exactly Once you start meeting people, you know
they're like oh, my parents arerenting out this house.
You know, okay, and they wouldnever do Airbnb.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
Yeah, okay.
And then as far as like tryingto find a remote job, our
audience might be interested inthis.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
So are there certain remote jobs that, yeah, they're
remote, but no, as long asyou're in the United States are
there certain remote jobs thatonly will let you be remote
internationally.
So I am technically an Americanworking in America with an
American tax address, which ishere in Nevada it's a UPS store
and so therefore I can.
When I work remotely, I canonly go to Europe for, within
those same constraints, threemonths at a time.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
To do, to work somewhere where you can live
longer than that.
You have to obtain, you have toobtain a visa.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
No, no, I was thinking.
I'm wondering if the employercares if you're in the United
States or if they're worriedabout like security and on the
internet in a different country?
Speaker 2 (41:20):
that's a good question.
Um, usually what they careabout are taxes and okay taxes
and breaking visa regulations,which is why I?
Went there um, but I think mostcompanies have advanced VPNs oh
okay.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
As long as you can get on that and they wrap up the
security.
Oh, okay, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
And in fact for me, having the VPN made it really
difficult to do things likebasically do anything online
when I was in Montenegro orBosnia.
I kept on getting like yourbank does not allow this
location.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
Oh right, because it says you're in America and
they're like why would Americansbe hacking into our accounts
here?
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Interesting.
Yeah, all companies are goingto want to make sure that you've
got all of the VPNs and thetwo-factor authentication on
anything you're using for workfor your mobile devices.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
Yeah, got it For sure .
Yeah.
Your mobile devices yeah, gotit For sure.
Yeah, how was it with theinternet and trying to work and
you know if it was tricky or nottricky and I'm sure, it's like
well, I guess I'm just not goingto be able to work here for a
couple of days or a week or amonth or something like that.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
It was tricky.
There were a couple places thatsaid they had internet and they
didn't, and so what I had to dowas, in both locations I was
able to find a co-working spacethat wasn't more than like 40
minutes away Drive away, and sothat's what I always did, okay,
yeah, it was really hard inplaces in Portugal.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
Oh Okay, I portugal's like digital nomad haven well,
because of that.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Um, there were a lot of co-working places.
You know, if you were anywherenear a big city which, again, if
you're willing to drive 45minutes is it's a small country,
yeah, so you can find thoseplaces.
Every time it rained reallyhard inenegro, which was pretty
much all the time we were there,like the sun would come out
like twice a week.
We'd be like get on your bikes,go, go, go.
We'd lose power and like not beable to get into our apartment
(43:25):
building and like our you know,our Airbnb host was like no, no,
no, it runs on battery, itstill lets you in when power is
out.
We're runs on battery, it stilllets you in when power is out.
We're like we're telling youthat we can't get into our own
apartment building.
Oh, that was kind of stressfuland I had a whole bunch of
interviews, you know it wouldalways be like oh, my god is it
gonna rain?
is it not gonna rain?
And the rain, I mean, like youcouldn't like one of them.
(43:48):
I had to reschedule.
I had to reschedule aninterview because the rain was
so bad that I couldn't evendrive you know, like I couldn't
even drive on the highway Likethere were like there was like
standing water that was likefeet deep.
Everywhere the rain was insane.
I guess that's just winterweather for um, for the, the
(44:09):
Mediterranean.
What do you call that?
The Dalmatian coast?
Yeah, Cause Montenegro is nextto Croatia, so it's like the
next little loop in thecoastline there.
But I was not expecting that atall.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
It is really stressful.
It's really stressful whenyou're somewhere and you can't
work and you need to be working.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
Yes, that's why I'm always like do I want to try to
work remotely?
I'm like I'm thinking maybemore I'm going to try to get
myself set up so I can takethree months off at a time, or
even just a month off, and thengo somewhere, come back and then
plan another trip for one ortwo months, like especially in
Asia, I think, with the timedifference and everything.
I definitely think I want tojust take a break rather than
(44:49):
trying to work remotely.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
Well and even when I wasn't working.
I teach English to Ukrainiansonline.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
And so I always felt like there was always something
I needed to do and needed to beonline for whether it was like
networking calls or webinars orteaching English or job
interviews, I never really feltlike I could truly be off the
grid.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
Yeah, I could see that.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
It does make it stressful.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
Yeah, how did you get the teaching jobs in English?
That sounds kind of fun.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
We were looking at all the volunteering in Ukraine
I think that's the name of thewebsite, although my husband
he's volunteering with theUkrainian Bicycle Project, which
actually he found through adifferent route online.
He just sent him an email andwas like hey, I'm a bike
mechanic, can I help you buildbikes?
They're like yes, I wasvolunteering in Ukraine and had
all kinds of options and some ofthem were remote and that's how
(45:45):
I found it and I signed up andI got trained and I love it.
I have three students.
They're all women in their 40s.
I have an economist, a computerscience teacher and an attorney
and they're learning English sothey can find a job outside
Ukraine as refugees.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
Wow, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
Good for you, that's awesome, it's amazingly more
helpful than I thought it would.
Be you know, to help them.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
That's very neat.
That's incredible.
What would you say are yourthree favorite places and why?
Speaker 2 (46:18):
My first favorite place is Belgium, my second
favorite place is Montenegro andmy third favorite place is
Poland.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
Is Poland.
What was your three favoritefoods?
Speaker 2 (46:37):
your three favorite foods.
Um, there's a, a food that theyeat in.
Uh, we call it serbia landbecause, you know, it doesn't
really matter what countryyou're in, like, the ethnicity
of a lot of these same peopleare serbs.
Um, they have something calledivar, which is ground bell
peppers and eggplant, andsometimes they put spicy peppers
in it, and, and it is justabsolutely.
How do you spell that In theRomantic alphabet?
Speaker 1 (46:56):
Or just like Ivar, like with Victor the I-V-A-R.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
V-A-V-A-J-V-A-R.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
Okay, that sounds right.
Brown peppers and eggplant.
That sounds like something Iwould love.
I've never heard of that before.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
So incredible.
And then you know just all thelittle farmer's markets in
Montenegro, like the littlevegetable mongers there was,
like you know, like one of them,every city block basically just
with like all these amazingfresh vegetables, the peppers,
especially in that part of theworld, were just incredible.
Speaker 1 (47:28):
Yeah, Mild and spicy the whole gamut.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
Okay, yep, everything in between, and of course you
could get like persimmons for,like you know, pennies, you know
, for like a massive, huge bagof them, those are so good.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
I love those.
Speaker 2 (47:45):
And then I really like the Spanish food.
I love any place, andPortuguese too.
I love any place where you sitdown and they give you a bowl of
olives, you know, as soon asyou sit down, and I really,
really like the fish that theyhave yeah.
(48:06):
The famous fish dishes I knowthat that whole region of the
world is famous for, like theirIberian ham, and I certainly ate
a lot of that stuff, like alltheir smoked sausage and
everything.
We lived in Andorra, andora, um, but you know, we really
started to just crave like freshfood.
You know, yeah, just haveamazing fresh fish yeah, olives
are incredible.
They just came off someone'stree.
Um, and then also, you know thething I love the most about
(48:29):
europe?
And it doesn't matter where yougo in Europe, you're going to
find it is just the bread.
Oh okay.
So good.
And I don't mean the whitebread, I mean, like the brown,
full-grain bread.
Speaker 1 (48:40):
Uh-huh, so fresh.
Speaker 2 (48:43):
So fresh and it's cheap.
Speaker 1 (48:45):
And what was your favorite dessert, from what
country?
If you had to pick one dessert,what would that be?
Speaker 2 (48:51):
Oh, that's a tough one because I don't eat a lot of
dessert.
Speaker 1 (49:04):
I usually have to choose between dessert and beer.
What's your favorite beer then?
What was?
Speaker 2 (49:07):
your favorite beer.
If you had to pick one, oh well, you know I'm a huge devotee.
My Belgian friends would scoffat me, but I think Leffe the
Belgian beer which is one of thefew kinds you can get over here
in the United States and weactually found some in like a
French grocery store in Andorra.
We were so happy, you know, itwas like Spanish, Portuguese,
Italian beer.
It's all like very light, youknow beer.
(49:40):
It's happy every time we canfind a left, and I also had a
rule that I couldn't drink anybelgian beer where I hadn't been
to the actual town, usually thecathedral, and then the left.
Um, my second one was inamee-n-a-m-e, which was also a
cathedral town, and that wasfrom flanders, where, where we
lived, um, sounds, it was allthe same, it's all belgian
blondes.
You know, it's all very strong,like six, six point six, yeah
it's all so, so, so good.
Speaker 1 (49:59):
And then I just I love the belgian chocolate too
coffee or tea, nanny coffee,coffee, coffee, nice, yeah,
that's awesome well thank you somuch, marianne.
This was so much fun.
Oh my, my gosh, we could talkforever.
I have so many questions.
It just sounds, I mean, it justopens your people who are
listening's mind of just adifferent type of adventure,
(50:22):
because a lot of people willtalk about one country, but
someone who's actually reallydoing it which I want to do as
well along with taking youbackpacking.
Obviously, it's happening.
It's happening, oh, it willhappen.
Speaker 2 (50:36):
I'll have to tell my new employers, you know, like,
look, I got a problem withAugust, you know.
Speaker 1 (50:42):
Exactly For sure.
But thank you so much, marianne, for just this wonderful
discussion about your adventuresand exploring with you, your
husband, your dog and your bikesright, thank you.
Speaker 2 (50:54):
Thank you so much.
I'm honored that you'reinterested in my stories.
Speaker 1 (50:58):
Yes, for sure.
Well, have a great weekend andI'm sure we'll be talking very
soon.
All right, nice to meet you,marianne.
Take care, bye, bye.
Thanks for listening.
If you enjoyed the podcast, canyou please take a second and do
a quick follow of the show andrate us in your podcast app, and
if you have a minute, we wouldreally appreciate a review.
Following and rating is thebest way to support us.
(51:21):
If you're on Instagram, let'sconnect.
We're at where?
Next podcast?
Thanks again, music.
Hi, welcome to our podcast when Next Travel with
Kristen and Carol.
I am Kristen and I am Carol,and we're two long-term friends
with a passion for travel andadventure.
Each episode, we interviewpeople around the globe to help
us decide where to go next.
Welcome, marianne, and you area dear friend of Kristen's and I
(00:37):
understand you travel the world, so we're excited to hear what
you're going to share today.
Yes, thanks so much, mariannefor being here.
So I've known Marianne sinceMarianne for being here.
So I've known Marianne sincewhat?
2015 or something.
We met in our companies andjust hit it off and I've always
enjoyed our conversations.
We haven't talked in a littlewhile.
(00:59):
And then we talked and you wereover in Europe, central Europe,
traveling with your husband andyour dog and your bikes and
going and sending me theseamazing, gorgeous pictures of
all over and this podcast.
We started what four years agoand it was a lot about you know,
traveling and living anywherein the world digital nomad, and
you embody that more thanactually a lot of that we've
(01:21):
talked about, and so I was sothrilled to have you on this
just because I'd love to see youand catch up and everything and
we'll have to catch upafterwards, but also about your
amazing journey and when itstarted and where you're at.
I know you're here locallyright now, or actually in Reno,
I think right now.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Yeah, yeah, for a couple more days, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
In Reno.
Okay, that's convenient.
Okay, yeah For this podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Like a little Lyft driver asked me from the airport
, you know like oh so where doyou live?
And I was like nowhere.
He was like he couldn't get hishead around this.
He was like no, no, no, no, no,you live somewhere.
And I'm like, no, I don't liveanywhere.
Well, you do have a house, I do, but I don't live there.
I have people living thereCorrect Exactly who are really
(02:11):
happy there and do not wish tohave me hanging around.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Right, exactly.
And before we start into youramazing adventure because I know
right now you're here locally,you're interviewing for a job, a
remote job, and then you'll goback, or you may be coming,
which I thought possiblypotentially to Oakland, which
would be amazing because then Iwould see you and that would be
fun, but that you startbeginning in your journey when
(02:39):
you and I had talked aboutrenting out your house because
of what you were doing and theanticipation even years before
about that journey, and just soour audience can get an idea if
they want to do that, you knowhow did you set that up and make
that work for you?
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Yeah, that's a good question.
So this actually started Ithink it started seriously in
2020, where I actively soughtout a job that would allow me to
travel, and so that was thefirst step.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
And your husband was on board with you and he's
retired.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Yep, he's a retired bicycle racer and bike mechanic.
He does a good job, kind of,you know, leading the home
renovations and taking care ofall of the stuff.
That doesn't include, you know,working at a corporate job, so
that includes all of ourfour-legged children.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
And how many four-legged children do you have
?
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Because I know, right now it's just one dog in Europe
with us.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
We left our cat behind, but as soon as we land
and we know where we're going tobe living for more than a month
at a time, we plan to reclaimthe cat, but as soon as we find
a place to land, like I said, wehope to acquire more animals.
So okay.
So it started with lookingspecifically for a job, because
I knew that you know the currentjob that I had, it was very US
(03:57):
based.
There was no chance not only of, there was no chance of being
able to work for one of theinternational divisions or an
office, and no chance of beingable to go overseas for more
than you know the time you takeon vacation and, being Americans
, we never go on vacation,except for Kristen, who gets to
go hiking with Girl Scouts inAugust, and I'm incredibly
jealous.
(04:18):
One of these days I'm goingwith you, yes, so so we started
with that.
So I started actively seeking ajob that was remote only and was
okay with travel, and at thesame time, we got really serious
about our house renovations.
So that took about.
That took exactly three years.
From that point on, I didmanage to get a job with a
(04:41):
remote company in August of 2021.
And the house was ready to goby August of 2023.
You know the process of youknow, filling an entire house
and God knows how many storageunits with all of our stuff and
my husband's stuff and myfamily's stuff, because somehow,
(05:01):
like every book my family hasever owned is, for some reason,
with me.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
I have a question, marianne.
So you're saying that thereason you renovated the house
was because you were going tostart working remote and you
want to rent it out?
Yes, so you wanted to get it inprime shape.
Okay, got it.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
We installed air conditioning and a heat pump in
it, and that was part of theexercise, as well as actually
installing installation on ahouse that was built in 1937
that had sorry insulation, hadno insulation whatsoever, and
getting air conditioning in ahouse in Reno, nevada, it's kind
of pretty essential these days.
I don't think it used to be,but it is now, and it's really
(05:39):
unusual for the old houses inthe Midtown district in Reno to
have air conditioning, and so wethought this is how we're going
to differentiate ourselves.
You know this will be a placewhere people can live and, you
know, not have to huddle in aroom somewhere.
You know, like trying to getthe little mobile unit working.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Well, it's really a nice central location.
I feel like I met you therewhile we were going to rest or
something Like you can walkeverywhere.
It's right downtown, right.
Yeah, it's super walkable.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
It's a great place to live.
It really is, especially ifyou're not worried too much
about the kind of stuff that myfriends with young children
worry about, which is like whatschool they're going to go to
and all this stuff.
If you don't really worry aboutthat, it's a wonderful place to
live.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Oh, okay, I've never considered Reno, yeah, and it's
really close to Lake Tahoe.
I mean it's a lot of outdooractivities that come with living
where you're at.
It's far enough removed soyou're not totally in the snow,
but I think you probably stillget some snow.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Yeah, yeah.
And if you ever get tired ofwinter, you just have to drive
over the mountains and go toCalifornia.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Right, exactly Just a couple hours.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
You don't get the same kind of seasonal depression
that you do.
If you like, say, live in NewEngland or you know Pennsylvania
.
Yeah, once it gets cold anddark, it stays that way, you
until april maybe absolutely so.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Then we're in uh, you're august 2023, you've got
your house renovated, you have ajob that's remote, and uh, was
it at that point where you said,okay, let's start planning, and
you, you took off shortly afterthat, or what was that like?
Speaker 2 (07:23):
So we went to Belgium in the beginning of September
2023, and we stayed there forthree months, which is as long
as you are allowed to staylegally without doing any other
paperwork as an American.
Right now in Europe, I haveheard that the rules are going
to change, but they're not goingto change for at least another
(07:44):
six months, so for now, that'sstill the deal.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Well, that's not that bad because, if I'm remembering
correctly, that was quite apivotal trip and a very
beautiful biking community whichyou and your husband are very
involved in.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
And you know, we were out there every single day
riding our bicycles, even thoughit literally rained every
single day from October 15th to,like the day I left, on
December 1st.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
We didn't care we were still out there riding our
bicycles, just absolutely sothrilled to be there, you know,
I mean from real winter.
It was like it's not that cold,it's 45 degrees out and it's
pouring rain, it's fine.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
And everyone else Tough cookies.
Also, did everyone else bike inthe rain?
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Only the pros.
Everyone I saw was like a worldtour pro.
If I saw another woman, youknow I'd be like, oh, I wonder
who that is looking on Strava,just seeing who would pass me.
You know, you know I'd be like,oh, I wonder who that is
looking on Strava, just seeingwho would pass me.
You know, it was very humblingin many ways to be around those
kinds of cyclists, and we raninto them in Andorra too.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Oh wow, Where's?
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Andorra.
It's in the Pyrenees, it's atiny country between France and
Spain and it is not part of theEU.
Oh, that's interesting, I'll getthere in a second, because it's
kind of part of the second partof our trip, which is, while I
was over there in Belgium, I wasactually laid off from my job
and I agreed to stay on and dosome extra work for the same
(09:18):
company for a little while justto see, you know, what else
would come up and help them outwith some transitions in the
compliance team space that theywere working with.
And so when we came back to theUnited States, you know, we
thought we'd rent like anapartment for six months or
something like that, and we justfound that it was just
impossibly expensive compared towhat we've been used to living
(09:42):
in in Belgium, and so weliterally moved into our little
tiny 15-foot travel trailer andwe lived in that travel trailer
in one of, you know, one ofthree local state parks all
winter long until we went backto Europe in May.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Wow, yeah, it's so great to just think differently
and save money, and then I'msure you guys could go different
places.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
It's the only way you can live in this part of the
world for like $1,200 a monthand live that comfortably.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
You know, stay at a state park and some of them.
You have to move on every twoweeks but you can kind of cycle
around and we stayed at a placekind of halfway between Reno and
Tahoe for a great part of theyear.
That was a an RV park.
That was really nice oh nice,you guys have an RV.
Uh, we sold it before we wentback to Europe okay um, we ran
(10:33):
that thing into the ground.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
It was like not really, uh, seaworthy anymore
yes, so now give it to the theBurning man people.
That's close by right right,right.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
We ended up selling it for like $2,000.
I can't believe somebody evengave us $2,000 for it.
It was literally like worthnothing.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Well, it's a roof over your head, doesn't have to
move.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Yeah, I mean my side of the bed leaked, but you know
we figured it out.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
It's a series in Belgium.
I was in the biking communityand you mentioned just kind of
hinted at the pros.
What has the pros?
I know we talked offline alittle bit, but figured just to
share it here what makes thepros go to Belgium?
What was so special aboutBelgium?
Why did you love it?
And, if I'm rememberingcorrectly, that was the place
(11:22):
that you really want to go backto you and your husband
remembering correctly.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
That was the place that you really want to go back
to, you and your husband.
Yeah, absolutely, and part ofit is because we spent a lot of
time there and it really takeslike three months to get to know
a place, and so we had thebenefit of being there for three
months in the fall.
So by the time we came back inMay, you know, we immediately,
like you know, started makingreally, really good friends and
kind of knew all the places wewanted to be and where we wanted
(11:47):
to ride and kind of getting allthat out of our system.
You know, finding the goodrestaurants, etc.
Finding the good, good housesto live in, um, meeting people
who might like, for example,have like a place to stay, you
know, in like the barn in theback of their property, instead
of having to go through Airbnb,oh nice, so, yeah, so part of
what made it so wonderful for uswas just spending a lot of time
(12:10):
there.
Yeah, but also is that, you know, in Belgium, cycling is like
football in America and cyclingin America is like cycling in
America.
Okay, in America is likecycling in America.
Okay, yeah, um, I mean, it's,it's the national sport, it's
(12:33):
it's in the not, and not just umcommuting by bicycle, like in
the Netherlands or Germany, butlike actually racing bicycles,
and so we didn't see a whole lotof it when we were there in the
fall Um.
but when we eventually found ourway to the right place in
Flanders, in the FlemishArdennes it's where all the very
famous hill climbs are from theTour of Flanders, and they're
all cobbled, they're made ofcobblestones and they're
(12:54):
absolutely incredibly difficultand steep.
There's one that I still cannotget up on my gravel bike.
It's like, yeah, it's 24% grade.
I'm like like super cobbled,and it goes on for just like
just a few too many feet.
You know it'd be for me to beable to get up it, but that's
the only one I can't get up, andthat's the copenberg um.
(13:16):
So you know they all have thesefamous names.
Some of half of them are namedafter the famous cyclists from
this.
You know 60s and 70s and 80s,yeah, and of course, this is the
hometown of Eddie Merckx, thegreatest bicycle rider that's
ever lived.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Very cool.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
So it's just embodies the sport, not just for road,
but also for cyclocross, whichis a bicycle sport that I think
is practically dead in theUnited States.
As far as I can tell, allpeople in the United States ever
want to do is do triathlons.
Boring, it's what I do, butit's all good Triathlons are fun
, but it's not the same thing asbike racing.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
No, not at all.
It's so cool, I was gonnaexercise what's that?
Speaker 2 (14:06):
it's exercise.
Exercise is really good and Ilove exercise.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Yes so what's your passion about bicycling that you
love so much?
That I mean because because youget to explore and like travel
for so long well, there's twokinds.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
There's bike, right, and then there's racing, and
bike racing is a craft, you know.
It is a finely tuned sport.
Those that are really good atit are, you know, performing
works of art when they're outthere, that's as a fan.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yeah, as a cyclist, I mean, it's wonderful to ride
your bicycle everywhere to seethe city in a way that you never
get.
You never get you know you orjust the countryside in a way
that you don't see from a carand you can't see when you're
walking, because you know youdon't really want to walk for 18
miles, you know, but you couldeasily, like go for an 18 mile
bike ride and get to see.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Yeah, I've heard of some of these like cruise, like
river cruises in europe, whereyou you bike in the day and then
the cruise goes along and holdson to all your stuff and then
you sleep in the cruise ship atnight and so you're hitting town
by town but then you're bikingso you don't have to do loops or
anything, you just keep going.
I like that.
(15:16):
I think it would be amazing.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
And we got really good at it.
My husband part of it is becausehe's not really afraid of
anything and that helps becauseI'll be like I don't want I'm
(15:40):
going to get lost, you know.
And we went for a bike ride froma campground in Milan and we
had a great time and we foundfine roads to ride on in the
middle of that, you know,crowded, it's just, it's a, it's
a very special place and, likeyou know, it's amazing to just
be in a country where everysingle person you see on a
bicycle, whether they're, likeyou know, eight year olds that
have better bike handling skillsthan like any woman in the
amateur racing field inCalifornia, have, California
(16:06):
have.
Or you see an old woman goingriding her bicycle to the store,
you know, to get this enormousvat of mayonnaise which she has,
like, strapped to the back ofher rack, you know, on her bike.
All of their bikes fit themperfectly and you just know.
You know, because you noticelike people just on bikes, you
know, riding around, whetherit's like DUI people or just
people in the United States, andlike everyone's riding a bike,
it's not the right size for them, you know, and that's one thing
(16:30):
you notice in Belgium isthey're all.
Their seat heights are allperfect and they'll have
absolute perfect cycling form.
You know, and it just comesfrom a country.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Oh my God, genetically in them.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Yeah, there's a lot of genetics going on.
The um, the, the current um.
Well, he lost the worldchampionship to the Slovenian
kid.
But the current great out thereis a guy named Mathieu van der
Poel and his father was namedAdrian van der Poel, which is
also the name of our dog, Audrey.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
And his mother.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
I don't remember the name of his mother but it's like
, literally, like he's got, likehe's like the grandson of this
one, like most famous cyclistthat ever lived.
He's Dutch, but he grew up inBelgium and like his father and
like it's the same like patternthat they look for in racing
horses where they're like thishorse is going to win.
You know he's got like thatheritage and that genetics and
(17:20):
and you know he's he's one ofthe strongest guys in the world.
Wow, that's amazing and it justcomes from this tradition of
you know, belgian and Dutchfamilies and how strong they can
be, and the women too, like thefastest women in the world, are
also from Belgium.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Oh, interesting.
So do they get it from theBelgian chocolate Super biking?
Powers there's something aboutthat.
Can we eat that?
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Well, and it's funny too, because when I say that
it's like football, like evenpeople who are sitting there
like drinking like unbelievableamounts of beer at these bike
races and smoking cigarettes,they love to smoke.
You know, they're also hugecycling fans and some of our
best friends in Belgium are notcyclists they love to smoke.
You know, they're also hugecycling fans and some of our
best friends in Belgium are notcyclists.
They're people that smoke, thatwe met because we like to sit
(18:10):
outside, you know, our favoritelike cafe and at the same time
as us.
And one day they sat next to usand they were like, what's your
story?
And we're like, oh, we'reAmerican.
And they were like what, whatare you doing in this tiny
village in Belgium?
What was the village you werein?
It was called Flobeck Flobeckand it has a local name.
(18:34):
The locals call it Flobiza.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Is that the one that's the home of Eddie Burks,
or is that a different?
No, eddie Murks is actually.
I'm not sure where he's from.
I think he might even be fromWallonia.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Is it Eddie Merckx or Burks?
You said I should know that andI'm going to bicycle hell for
not knowing the town.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
What's his name?
Burks or Burks Burks, merckxwith an M.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
M-E-R-C-Y-X.
Oh, I'm not that close Okay.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
That sounds incredible.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
But I do know that Greg LeMond lived in Kortrijk,
which is pretty close toFlaubert In Ronse Ronse.
So is your travel very bikemotivated.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
You want to go explore this place on a bike or
that place on a bike, or youjust go explore, and of course,
you can bring your bikes justbecause that's what you do.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
No well, it was a first right.
I mean, we ended up hanging outlong enough in Belgium just to
realize that this part of theworld is like this is where we
want to be, this is where ourhearts are, this is home for us.
Oh, okay.
And then we ran into visaconstraints.
So initially I was there, I wasgoing to get a job working for
(19:45):
the same company.
It would be an on-site job inPortugal but it didn't work out.
Oh okay, like we can't actuallysponsor your visa.
Um.
The plan had always been likeoh yeah, let's go live in
portugal until we're eu citizensand then we'll just go back to
belgium and then I'll be able tofind a job, no problem, because
(20:08):
I'll be an eu citizen and noone will have to give me visa
sponsorship.
Um.
But that didn't work out, andso I actually ended up
eventually quitting my job.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Um what kind of work were you doing?
Speaker 2 (20:20):
um, I'm a uh supply chain operations procurement oh,
okay, all right, so it's notlike professional.
I was working in the in legaloperations oh, okay, oyster,
he's very modest.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
She's a pretty, pretty skilled job.
Yeah, she's very skilled,unbelievable, has done so much
for so many very large companiesand anyone that ever gets her
is extremely lucky.
I said what would do and buildwas incredible, the way her
detail and what she knowsunbelievable.
It was really impressive.
(20:56):
So she's very modest, but yes,she kicks butt.
Let's just say that.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Yes.
So at that point, you know wewere going to Portugal and we
just kept running into these.
We still have a European bankaccount that we can't really
access because, like, we'venever been able to get like the
PIN number working.
I mean, there's the bureaucracyand troubles of like not really
(21:28):
having an address that peoplecan send stuff to.
You is like it's.
It's really a part of thestruggle of being a digital
nomad.
You know a lot of places you'llstay.
You won't be able to receivepackages or mail because you're
in, like, the back of someone'sapartment or you're in some
weird building.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Oh, I never thought about that.
Ok, got to buy local then Iguess.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Yeah, and when I we lived in andorra, nothing could
get shipped to you, nothingbecause, um, they would like
derail it and always open it forcustoms purposes.
And try to see if people were,you know, trying to get around
the rules of a tax haven bybringing in cheap goods without
paying the duties.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Can you tell me about Portugal, like, is it easy to
become a citizen in Portugal?
That that was your plan?
No oh okay, well, just not yetan EU citizen.
I have a feeling that's goingto happen for sure.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
The path to citizenship in Portugal that I
had to take was something thatthey call.
Sometimes they call it theretirement visa, but what it is
is that you have to have anincome separate from like.
It can't just be one lump sumof money.
You have to have a recurringincome of not very much money,
only 850 euro a month, and then,if there's two of you, 12, half
(22:36):
of that, so I think maybe itwas 1250 or 1200, euro.1,200 or
€1,200.
I mean, they're close to thesame.
Right now Euros are a littlemore expensive, but you had to
have that just kind of coming in.
So that's why so many people inPortugal are retired.
That's pretty easy and we wereable to show that we had that in
terms of our rental income on anet level.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Quite on the gross level.
And so we ran into problemswith our visa that way and plus,
like it was all tied into medoing this job that I just I
didn't really want to do.
At that point, you know, I I'dtaken a job um, a little, a
couple notches lower than mycapability because, you know, I
(23:21):
thought it would be worth it tolive in Europe and get the
opportunity, but it didn't seemstable and it didn't seem like
something that was going to bearound for five years and it
just didn't seem like the rightopportunity for me.
So, yeah, so when I found outhow incredibly difficult it was
to get the visa and spend allthat time in Portugal for a job
I didn't necessarily know that Ireally wanted, you know, to
(23:45):
live in a place that we didn'treally necessarily want to live
in, I mean not for a long periodof time.
It just seemed to make sense toabandon that entire process.
And we did after we were prettyfar in.
I still have national tax IDsand bank accounts in Portugal.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Wow, that's crazy.
So did you spend some time inAndorra.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah, so we thought that once we applied for the
visas in Portugal, we'd be ableto stay in Portugal.
I had like five people tell methat that was the case and maybe
it would have been better notto ask the lawyers.
But the lawyers said that isnot the case, you cannot take
her.
And so we were getting ready tobe done with our three-month
(24:27):
period in the EU, which Portugalis part of, and it was so
confusing because they wantedyou to have a house with a lease
to get the visa.
But how are you supposed tofind a house or a lease to a
place to stay that you want tostay in um unless you're allowed
to stay there?
And find a place to live?
yeah, yeah, catch 22, check methere like airbnb and like rent
(24:49):
a place that way, and then showthat sure, but we'd already been
in belgium for a month and ahalf, you know, buying the car
and taking care of uh otherbusiness.
Um headed to portugal, and soit was around.
Then we realized that we weregoing to run out of our time at
the end of August, and there wasjust no way this visa was going
to happen before then.
So that's when we went toAndorra.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
I'm looking at a map here.
How did you hear?
I can't believe.
I've never heard of this.
We've done France a couple oftimes.
We've been in the south ofFrance.
We've done Europe.
We've been to the south ofFrance.
We've done Europe.
We've done the Santiago.
We've never heard anyonemention Andorra, or maybe I
didn't realize it was a country.
That's crazy.
I've heard of it but I don'tknow much about it.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
It's mostly like it's a huge ski resort.
It's pretty windy.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
It's like right between France and Spain.
It almost looks like it's onthe border between the two of
them.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
It is, it is yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
And is it France, or is it Spain, or is?
Speaker 2 (25:45):
it, it's its own country.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Yeah, you know why?
Because as I look closerthere's a little circle, a tiny
little circle with an arrowright on Andorra, so it is its
own country.
So it's like Lake Tahoe is itsown country almost probably,
kind of like a little ski resortarea.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
No, this is a little bit more like Guam, I would say.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Okay, and it's not part of the EU.
Oh, so you can go in the EU forthree months, but then you have
to leave and then come back.
And so you went to Andorra.
How long did you have to staythere for then?
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Well, you can stay in Andorra for up to 90 days.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Three months Okay.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
As an American without a visa, but the rules in
Europe have changed a littlebit.
You have to go for longer thanthree months now when you leave
the EU before you can come backagain.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
And it's different in every country.
We kind of got different rulesin all the different places, but
we tried in general to not staytoo long in a European country.
We would have liked to havestayed longer in, say, portugal.
We would have liked to staylonger in Croatia and Slovenia.
They were all part of the EU,so we really were pushing
against that time limit.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
So we went to.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Andorra, and the reason why we didn't leave, why
we left Andorra, was not becausewe were in danger of our visas
expiring.
It's because the snow wascoming, oh, okay, and we were
not there for a ski vacation andwe lived at 7,500 feet.
It would basically be likebeing, you know, living at a ski
(27:16):
resort.
Oh okay.
With that much snow.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Not so great for biking even, and I'm sure you
guys would bike in it.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
But yeah, again, all the world tours were in andorra
um never saw a normal person ona bicycle the whole time I was
there.
Yes, really yeah, it was likeaugust and, yeah, everyone was
there between the tour de franceand the vuelta de spania, which
, for the first time in likeever in the last 80 years,
(27:46):
didn't go to Andorra.
I was so disappointed, oh wow.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Yeah.
So which countries are the bestfor biking?
You know I'm probably most ofthe listeners are not at the pro
racing level.
Is there big advantages for thenormal layperson to bike in
specific?
Speaker 2 (28:04):
countries.
I would definitely recommendthe normal layperson ride a
bicycle in Belgium.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Yeah, the only reason why we always saw pros out
there is because it was winter.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
In spring and summer there's just vast hordes of like
group rides everywhere likegroups of cyclists with 100, 200
people in them just riding.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
And they're on the roads or they do like a lot of
off-road, like mountain theylike mountain biking there, but
they're also.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
The roads are set up.
Every single road is a bikelane oh, really okay.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
How about slovenia?
That's uh, it's my heritage.
I haven't been there yet.
I'm really dying to go.
Did you spend much time there?
Speaker 2 (28:37):
no um oh, okay, beautiful campground that we
stayed at.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Oh, it was a campground.
Okay, did you guys have like avan, or you actually camp,
camped?
Speaker 2 (28:48):
We bought a cheap tent at Decathlon which is like
the European REI.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
And we had our car and we pitched a tent.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Okay, awesome, so you had a car throughout Europe, or
did you train somewhere?
Speaker 2 (29:02):
We bought the car in Belgium.
We ran into a lot of red tape.
We managed to get it registeredeventually in Andorra, yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Oh, wow.
And then what'd you do afteryour time was up?
Speaker 2 (29:13):
So we left Andorra and at that point, you know, in
terms of the question of whatwas driving us, I was just
applying for jobs.
At that point I, you know I nolonger had any income coming in,
except for a little bit fromour rental property.
So we just decided to live ascheaply as we could outside the
Europe in a place we could driveto.
So, that's what led us toBosnia.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Oh, wow OK.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Yeah, oh, wow, okay.
And we were like, oh, let'sjust go there and check it out.
And then we started seeing allthese YouTube videos about all
these people who clearly putabsolutely zero attention to
politics.
Being like this is the bestplace ever.
Yay, this is our favorite newtourist destination, trebinje,
bosnia.
And it wasn't, you know, if youweren't a tourist, that was
(30:21):
there in the summer.
It was actually a little hardliving there.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Um, why is that?
Is it language or?
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Language is difficult , um the, the culture there, um
people are not naturallyfriendly.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Um, I mean, they're not really in the Netherlands or
Belgium either, but if you'rethere for long enough, they
eventually, you know, you canweasel your way in once they
figure out you're not a tourist,but you know we really
struggled in Bosnia.
We spent most of our time inRespublica Srpska, which is the
Serbian section of Bosnia.
Okay, we did go to Sarajevo.
(30:55):
There were just like smallthings about it not being part
of the EU that were verynoticeable.
There were just like smallthings about it not being part
of the EU that were verynoticeable.
I would say the big trash andthe trash like the trash
everywhere, and then the fielddogs and cats.
I mean, anyone who's been toLatin America probably has a
little more experience withthose two.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
It's very India-like almost.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Yeah it's a little it's pretty heartbreaking if
you're a dog person.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Because the dogs are they're not.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Like you know, in America, or even in Portugal,
like all the stray dogs werelike the same breed, you know,
and they were just clearly somekind of like super mutt, you
know that is accustomed toliving on the streets.
Or you know, in America they'reall pit bulls and stuff.
You know they were really nicebreeds of dogs, you know, like
in many cases like purebred dogsyou're not used to seeing like
(31:46):
a golden retriever living on thestreet.
You know yeah, oh wow yeah yeah,labradoodles, yeah like
friendly, beautiful dogs, youknow big little I mean mostly
big.
I didn't see many little onesokay, um and the cats too.
Cats were so friendly um, itwas really hard to not take them
(32:08):
with us oh, I can imagine, Iwould want to and then also the
pollution too.
You know, everyone in bosnia isdriving a 1984 volkswagen with a
diesel engine.
Oh, and even though we were onthe Mediterranean sometimes, I
mean it usually wasn't that bad,but sometimes it could be
really, really bad the furtheryou go into the mountains, which
(32:29):
is the entire country, the morethe pollution hangs in the
valleys.
I mean it smells like sulfur.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
It's bad, it's really bad.
It's like something that youdon't ever smell in America.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Okay, what about Croatia?
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Croatia was gorgeous.
Okay, but it's part of the EUOkay.
We could ride our bicycles.
Where we lived in Bosnia, wecould ride our bicycles to the
border of Croatia.
We could see the Adriatic Seaand Dubrovnik and have coffee
looking at the ocean.
Oh nice we didn't actually rideour bikes through customs that
much, because every now and thenthey gave you a hard time and
(33:06):
wanted to see a passport, and wedidn't want to burn any days in
the EU.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Oh, I see, oh smart.
Okay, you're not in there ifyour passport's not stamped.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
I am.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
Oh, okay, very good.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
And from then we went to Montenegro.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Oh yeah, I don't really think, but that's uh, is
that kind of near Croatia, yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Yeah, it needs to do it Also a former Yugoslav.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Right, yeah, I'm Yugoslavian by descent, and so
now it's like I think we'remainly from Slovenia, but you
know there's Croatia, and whatelse did you say it was?
Speaker 2 (33:43):
The Serbs.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
The Serbs yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Yeah, the Serbs live in a lot of different countries,
like Montenegrins.
They're ethnically Serbs, okay,and of course Serbia is mostly
Serbs, and then Croatia ismostly Croatians, because they
kicked out or killed all theSerbs.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
And all the Serbs in Bosnia have been killing the
Bosniaks, who are the BosnianMuslims.
Oh, okay, he's joined in thatas well.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
I need to read some history.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
It got pretty ugly and you can really tell Like.
I spent only a couple days inBelgrade in Serbia, and Serbia
itself is not a place where youknow people hold on to the past.
I think it's really, you knowit's a pretty modern, pretty
friendly place.
Oh, okay, that's not thefeeling you get necessarily all
(34:35):
the time when you're in Bosnia.
You really feel the tensions,the ethnic tensions still
between the groups.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Oh, okay, wow, so did you.
Oh sorry, oh, go ahead.
I was just going to say I thinkMontenegro, if I'm remembering
correctly, was one of yourfavorites.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Yeah, yeah, we did love it.
We lived in Sotinia andactually this is crazy A week
after we left, there was like amass killing with a gun in
Satinia.
This is like a tiny village.
We were like we could notbelieve it.
When we read it in the news Didthey say why?
He was some ex-army guy.
Wow, so not just in.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
America?
Huh, I was going to say, was hein cahoots with the guy from
what?
In front of the Trump Towerwith the no, and then in the New
Orleans?
Maybe there was a trifecta orsomething going on.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
It was an isolated incident.
I didn't even know that theywere allowed to have guns in
Montenegro.
I mean, I never saw any.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Yeah, maybe they weren't.
How long were you in Montenegrofor then?
Speaker 2 (35:41):
We were there for a month and a couple months.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
We would have stayed longer, except we decided that
things were kind of coming to ahead with my job applications.
Okay.
We decided that we should moveon to Ukraine if we truly wanted
to volunteer in Ukraine beforeI was going to end up having to
start working for a company.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Yeah, wow, what kind of volunteer work did you do.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
Well, I never made it .
I got arrested on thePolish-Ukrainian border by the
Polish police.
What was that?
I got arrested at thePoland-Ukrainian border by the
Polish police because I did nothave an international driver's
permit, which I had no idea Ineeded.
Which?
Speaker 1 (36:23):
had not come up for driving.
What did that look like?
What happened?
Speaker 2 (36:30):
and the police were really nice, like even they
thought it was a shakedown.
Um, like a bunch of like thewomen like on the police force
like kept riding in the backwith me in the cars, I wouldn't
feel like I was getting arrested.
Oh gosh, that's my other halfI'm polish.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
Yeah, I've been done.
Oh yeah, well, in fact myhusband's still there.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
He's not going to ukraine until he's going to
ukraine on sunday.
Because when I came to amer Igot him his international
driver's permit, which is thisBS cardboard document with like
a poorly trimmed passport phototape to it.
I mean it's so ridiculous.
I mean there's no like, there'snothing behind it.
(37:09):
Oh my gosh that's hilarious.
You get from AAA.
Oh, I think I've heard aboutthat before.
Yeah, it costs 20 bucks, 12 ifyou let them take your passport
photos.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Okay, Is there any big consequence of getting
arrested?
You just they like slap yourwrist.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Interrogation for my punishment and I was like kind
of giggling at the police'sEnglish, you know, and they were
just kidding Now we willconduct your interrogation for
your punishment.
And then I actually saw thedocument and it really said on
it she was reading it.
They gave me an English copy,English version of this document
.
It's great.
I'm going to frame it.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
That is an awesome story.
That's so cool.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Yeah, I mean, I'm sure you're a little nervous at
the time, but I had to write aletter to the judge and they're
either going to give me a fineActually, I haven't gotten the
letter back yet.
They're either going to give mea fine or they're going to ban
me from driving in Poland forsix months, or some combination
thereof, or they could throw thewhole thing out and they didn't
(38:13):
even know if I had to.
Like I was trying to figure outif I had to go to court and
they're like well, we've neverreally done this before, so we
don't know.
no, someone, just on a whim,decided to press yeah, just on a
whim, it wasn't really thepolice's fault.
Like as soon as the like thethe charges had been you know,
like clear that I was drivingwithout an irrational driver's
(38:34):
permit in poland, like I guessthe police had been.
You know, like clear, that Iwas driving without an
international driver's permit inPoland, like I guess the police
had no choice.
So I've been stuck in Polandover Christmas.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Oh, my goodness, oh just like a month ago.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
Yeah, oh you just got back.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
Oh my gosh, she's here just interviewing, and then
she's are you going to go backit?
Speaker 2 (38:54):
all depends, yeah, yeah.
So if I don't get a job, I'mgoing to go back to Europe and
join him and we'll get anotherthree months in Belgium, keep
applying for places.
And if I do get a job, thenhopefully it's a remote job and
I'll be able to go over thereand hang out with him and work.
And hopefully it's a remote joband I'll be able to go over
there and hang out with him andwork.
But if I get a job that's not aremote job, then I'll probably
(39:17):
just go out there for a coupleof weeks, take vacation and help
him move home, and we'll bemoving somewhere in the United
States.
Okay, very open ended right now.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
Oh, that's so exciting.
I love that.
So, living in Belgium, do yourent then by the month?
How do you do?
Speaker 2 (39:35):
your housing.
So we boarded with a family fora significant time over there
and we paid by the month.
And Airbnb is hard to find inthe villages there and it's kind
of expensive.
Short-term leases tend to belike three to six months.
Those are in Brussels and theytend to be for, like you know,
(39:59):
diplomats and people working forthe government.
Those are very accessible inBrussels but in the village it's
hard to find places you mighthave to find like an overly
expensive Airbnb until you kindof meet people and figure out.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
Okay, you got to get the lay of the land.
Someone knows someone.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
Exactly Once you start meeting people, you know
they're like oh, my parents arerenting out this house.
You know, okay, and they wouldnever do Airbnb.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
Yeah, okay.
And then as far as like tryingto find a remote job, our
audience might be interested inthis.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
So are there certain remote jobs that, yeah, they're
remote, but no, as long asyou're in the United States are
there certain remote jobs thatonly will let you be remote
internationally.
So I am technically an Americanworking in America with an
American tax address, which ishere in Nevada it's a UPS store
and so therefore I can.
When I work remotely, I canonly go to Europe for, within
those same constraints, threemonths at a time.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
To do, to work somewhere where you can live
longer than that.
You have to obtain, you have toobtain a visa.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
No, no, I was thinking.
I'm wondering if the employercares if you're in the United
States or if they're worriedabout like security and on the
internet in a different country?
Speaker 2 (41:20):
that's a good question.
Um, usually what they careabout are taxes and okay taxes
and breaking visa regulations,which is why I?
Went there um, but I think mostcompanies have advanced VPNs oh
okay.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
As long as you can get on that and they wrap up the
security.
Oh, okay, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
And in fact for me, having the VPN made it really
difficult to do things likebasically do anything online
when I was in Montenegro orBosnia.
I kept on getting like yourbank does not allow this
location.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
Oh right, because it says you're in America and
they're like why would Americansbe hacking into our accounts
here?
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Interesting.
Yeah, all companies are goingto want to make sure that you've
got all of the VPNs and thetwo-factor authentication on
anything you're using for workfor your mobile devices.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
Yeah, got it For sure .
Yeah.
Your mobile devices yeah, gotit For sure.
Yeah, how was it with theinternet and trying to work and
you know if it was tricky or nottricky and I'm sure, it's like
well, I guess I'm just not goingto be able to work here for a
couple of days or a week or amonth or something like that.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
It was tricky.
There were a couple places thatsaid they had internet and they
didn't, and so what I had to dowas, in both locations I was
able to find a co-working spacethat wasn't more than like 40
minutes away Drive away, and sothat's what I always did, okay,
yeah, it was really hard inplaces in Portugal.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
Oh Okay, I portugal's like digital nomad haven well,
because of that.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Um, there were a lot of co-working places.
You know, if you were anywherenear a big city which, again, if
you're willing to drive 45minutes is it's a small country,
yeah, so you can find thoseplaces.
Every time it rained reallyhard inenegro, which was pretty
much all the time we were there,like the sun would come out
like twice a week.
We'd be like get on your bikes,go, go, go.
We'd lose power and like not beable to get into our apartment
(43:25):
building and like our you know,our Airbnb host was like no, no,
no, it runs on battery, itstill lets you in when power is
out.
We're runs on battery, it stilllets you in when power is out.
We're like we're telling youthat we can't get into our own
apartment building.
Oh, that was kind of stressfuland I had a whole bunch of
interviews, you know it wouldalways be like oh, my god is it
gonna rain?
is it not gonna rain?
And the rain, I mean, like youcouldn't like one of them.
(43:48):
I had to reschedule.
I had to reschedule aninterview because the rain was
so bad that I couldn't evendrive you know, like I couldn't
even drive on the highway Likethere were like there was like
standing water that was likefeet deep.
Everywhere the rain was insane.
I guess that's just winterweather for um, for the, the
(44:09):
Mediterranean.
What do you call that?
The Dalmatian coast?
Yeah, Cause Montenegro is nextto Croatia, so it's like the
next little loop in thecoastline there.
But I was not expecting that atall.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
It is really stressful.
It's really stressful whenyou're somewhere and you can't
work and you need to be working.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
Yes, that's why I'm always like do I want to try to
work remotely?
I'm like I'm thinking maybemore I'm going to try to get
myself set up so I can takethree months off at a time, or
even just a month off, and thengo somewhere, come back and then
plan another trip for one ortwo months, like especially in
Asia, I think, with the timedifference and everything.
I definitely think I want tojust take a break rather than
(44:49):
trying to work remotely.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
Well and even when I wasn't working.
I teach English to Ukrainiansonline.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
And so I always felt like there was always something
I needed to do and needed to beonline for whether it was like
networking calls or webinars orteaching English or job
interviews, I never really feltlike I could truly be off the
grid.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
Yeah, I could see that.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
It does make it stressful.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
Yeah, how did you get the teaching jobs in English?
That sounds kind of fun.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
We were looking at all the volunteering in Ukraine
I think that's the name of thewebsite, although my husband
he's volunteering with theUkrainian Bicycle Project, which
actually he found through adifferent route online.
He just sent him an email andwas like hey, I'm a bike
mechanic, can I help you buildbikes?
They're like yes, I wasvolunteering in Ukraine and had
all kinds of options and some ofthem were remote and that's how
(45:45):
I found it and I signed up andI got trained and I love it.
I have three students.
They're all women in their 40s.
I have an economist, a computerscience teacher and an attorney
and they're learning English sothey can find a job outside
Ukraine as refugees.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
Wow, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
Good for you, that's awesome, it's amazingly more
helpful than I thought it would.
Be you know, to help them.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
That's very neat.
That's incredible.
What would you say are yourthree favorite places and why?
Speaker 2 (46:18):
My first favorite place is Belgium, my second
favorite place is Montenegro andmy third favorite place is
Poland.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
Is Poland.
What was your three favoritefoods?
Speaker 2 (46:37):
your three favorite foods.
Um, there's a, a food that theyeat in.
Uh, we call it serbia landbecause, you know, it doesn't
really matter what countryyou're in, like, the ethnicity
of a lot of these same peopleare serbs.
Um, they have something calledivar, which is ground bell
peppers and eggplant, andsometimes they put spicy peppers
in it, and, and it is justabsolutely.
How do you spell that In theRomantic alphabet?
Speaker 1 (46:56):
Or just like Ivar, like with Victor the I-V-A-R.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
V-A-V-A-J-V-A-R.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
Okay, that sounds right.
Brown peppers and eggplant.
That sounds like something Iwould love.
I've never heard of that before.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
So incredible.
And then you know just all thelittle farmer's markets in
Montenegro, like the littlevegetable mongers there was,
like you know, like one of them,every city block basically just
with like all these amazingfresh vegetables, the peppers,
especially in that part of theworld, were just incredible.
Speaker 1 (47:28):
Yeah, Mild and spicy the whole gamut.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
Okay, yep, everything in between, and of course you
could get like persimmons for,like you know, pennies, you know
, for like a massive, huge bagof them, those are so good.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
I love those.
Speaker 2 (47:45):
And then I really like the Spanish food.
I love any place, andPortuguese too.
I love any place where you sitdown and they give you a bowl of
olives, you know, as soon asyou sit down, and I really,
really like the fish that theyhave yeah.
(48:06):
The famous fish dishes I knowthat that whole region of the
world is famous for, like theirIberian ham, and I certainly ate
a lot of that stuff, like alltheir smoked sausage and
everything.
We lived in Andorra, andora, um, but you know, we really
started to just crave like freshfood.
You know, yeah, just haveamazing fresh fish yeah, olives
are incredible.
They just came off someone'stree.
Um, and then also, you know thething I love the most about
(48:29):
europe?
And it doesn't matter where yougo in Europe, you're going to
find it is just the bread.
Oh okay.
So good.
And I don't mean the whitebread, I mean, like the brown,
full-grain bread.
Speaker 1 (48:40):
Uh-huh, so fresh.
Speaker 2 (48:43):
So fresh and it's cheap.
Speaker 1 (48:45):
And what was your favorite dessert, from what
country?
If you had to pick one dessert,what would that be?
Speaker 2 (48:51):
Oh, that's a tough one because I don't eat a lot of
dessert.
Speaker 1 (49:04):
I usually have to choose between dessert and beer.
What's your favorite beer then?
What was?
Speaker 2 (49:07):
your favorite beer.
If you had to pick one, oh well, you know I'm a huge devotee.
My Belgian friends would scoffat me, but I think Leffe the
Belgian beer which is one of thefew kinds you can get over here
in the United States and weactually found some in like a
French grocery store in Andorra.
We were so happy, you know, itwas like Spanish, Portuguese,
Italian beer.
It's all like very light, youknow beer.
(49:40):
It's happy every time we canfind a left, and I also had a
rule that I couldn't drink anybelgian beer where I hadn't been
to the actual town, usually thecathedral, and then the left.
Um, my second one was inamee-n-a-m-e, which was also a
cathedral town, and that wasfrom flanders, where, where we
lived, um, sounds, it was allthe same, it's all belgian
blondes.
You know, it's all very strong,like six, six point six, yeah
it's all so, so, so good.
Speaker 1 (49:59):
And then I just I love the belgian chocolate too
coffee or tea, nanny coffee,coffee, coffee, nice, yeah,
that's awesome well thank you somuch, marianne.
This was so much fun.
Oh my, my gosh, we could talkforever.
I have so many questions.
It just sounds, I mean, it justopens your people who are
listening's mind of just adifferent type of adventure,
(50:22):
because a lot of people willtalk about one country, but
someone who's actually reallydoing it which I want to do as
well along with taking youbackpacking.
Obviously, it's happening.
It's happening, oh, it willhappen.
Speaker 2 (50:36):
I'll have to tell my new employers, you know, like,
look, I got a problem withAugust, you know.
Speaker 1 (50:42):
Exactly For sure.
But thank you so much, marianne, for just this wonderful
discussion about your adventuresand exploring with you, your
husband, your dog and your bikesright, thank you.
Speaker 2 (50:54):
Thank you so much.
I'm honored that you'reinterested in my stories.
Speaker 1 (50:58):
Yes, for sure.
Well, have a great weekend andI'm sure we'll be talking very
soon.
All right, nice to meet you,marianne.
Take care, bye, bye.
Thanks for listening.
If you enjoyed the podcast, canyou please take a second and do
a quick follow of the show andrate us in your podcast app, and
if you have a minute, we wouldreally appreciate a review.
Following and rating is thebest way to support us.
(51:21):
If you're on Instagram, let'sconnect.
We're at where?
Next podcast?
Thanks again, music.
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