April 13, 2025 • 53 mins
In this episode of Where Next? Travel with Kristen and Carol, we return to Mongolia—this time through the eyes of Tugso, a Mongolian native now living in the U.S. She shares a deeply personal and vibrant portrait of her home country, from nomadic life in the northern mountains to the unique blend of traditional and modern living in Ulaanbaatar. We talk about everything from shamanism and Soviet influence to the fierce independence of Mongolian women, the simplicity of daily life, and the warmth of a culture where community and hospitality still reign.
Tugso also gives us a peek into Mongolia’s biggest holidays, including Naadam with its wrestling, horse racing, and archery, and how New Year’s is celebrated with sparkle, family, and salty milk tea. She reflects on how her upbringing shaped her values around minimalism, resilience, and pride in heritage. Whether you're curious about taking the Trans-Siberian train to Ulaanbaatar or just want to understand why Mongolia is unlike anywhere else, this episode will expand your perspective and leave you longing for a visit.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Hi, welcome to our podcast, Where Next?
Travel with Kristen and Carol.
I am Kristen.
And I am Carol.
(00:22):
And we're two long-term friendswith a passion for travel and
adventure.
Each episode, we interviewpeople around the globe to help
us decide where to go next.
In this episode, we once againvisit Mongolia.
In episode 63, we hadinterviewed an American who fell
in love with the country andmoved there.
(00:43):
And this time we were speakingto a local that grew up in
Mongolia and has moved to theU.S.
Tungso is so passionate abouther love for her country and
shares what makes it so special.
We talk about the holidays, thehistory, and we discuss how the
culture is very different thanhere in the U.S., especially
around material items.
(01:03):
Enjoy.
Dukso, thank you so much forjoining our next podcast today.
And thanks in advance forteaching us about Mongolia.
We're so excited.
Of course, yeah.
I'm happy to.
Thank you for having me.
Sure.
I'd love to start and say, whendid you come here to the U.S.?
You grew up in Mongolia.
What did that look like?
(01:24):
All your history.
Well, yeah, I was born andraised in Mongolia.
I met my husband in Mongolia.
He was a peace governor.
I had a lot of foreign friendsover there, but When I decided
to, well, I came here to visitfirst and to see the, you know,
like after he finished a twoyear period of Peace Corps time
(01:48):
and he came back and I visited,you know, who wouldn't like
California in November, October.
SPEAKER_01 (01:53):
especially Bay Area.
UNKNOWN (01:54):
Oh, it's beautiful.
He took me to Yosemite.
I love this.
Oh, I loved it.
And then, like, I went backagain, still not sure, you know,
and then I went back againfollowing the year in March, and
then I welcomed my collegefriends who are here.
It's, you know, like, diverseand different languages and
food, you know, like, I lovedit.
SPEAKER_00 (02:13):
And then, and then after living with my husband six
months, we were like, you knowwhat, here we are talking about,
like, the document, a foreigner,I can't, just being your
girlfriend forever.
You know, I have to eat the inand out of the relationship, you
know?
And then we decided to getmarried.
And then that's the...
Luckily, my husband, as he livedin Mongolia, he knows my people,
(02:38):
he knows my culture, and he'sfrom Bay Area.
That really helped me to move inthere.
It's a lot of challenge, butagain, I went to sick after
several years later, and Irecovered, and I get treatment.
Amazing.
I cannot say anything.
negative things about Americaespecially the science you know
(02:59):
I'm into science and it's likebeen through a lot but again
it's it's a great country youknow that even though there are
a lot of things that stillastonishing me you know like I
didn't know like woman paid lessthan men until very recently I
was like what and just be justbeing a woman you can get paid
(03:24):
list.
I couldn't understand that.
It's still, I'm having sometroubles, but, you know, there
are a lot of things.
It's very interesting.
It's still challenging tounderstand.
It's difficult to adjust it,yeah.
And I'm so interested in, Iremember when we talked, you
said that, and it kind ofshocked me because, and it's
(03:45):
kind of weird that That would bea normal thing for us to just
understand.
Like, yep, that's just the wayit is.
Well, why is that?
Because we're still doing thesame thing.
But in Mongolia, how is thatbetween women and men and women
working?
Well, the women, because we havea lot of influence from Soviet
Union, you know, they were doingcommunist time, women's work.
(04:09):
Women are really strong.
Most of the, like, you know,teachers and doctors, all the
women are really educated.
Again, like any other country,it's like decision-making
positions are mostly men.
Even though women's right ismuch higher, women are more
respected than any othercountries.
(04:31):
I didn't know that.
Like, because even their name,if...
We don't have he, shelinguistically.
We have that person.
And through email or writingexchange, the person would know
I'm a woman.
Until if we see each other, wedon't have the gender
(04:54):
linguistically.
Maybe that's one of the factorsthat can affect a woman's
language.
role, I think.
And then again, families, theyinvest so much for girls'
integration than men.
We believe, oh, men can get bydoing some labor work.
(05:17):
They can be okay.
But the women, we needintegration.
So if there's a family havechoices between women and men,
girl and boy, we invest moregirls for integration side.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it just kind of like thewhole, like, not really having
the he, she pronouns.
Is there any, like, trans peoplethat are, or like non-binary, as
(05:41):
we call them here?
No, not really.
Again, you know, I left thecountry almost 20 years ago.
If you guys going back home, youknow, after living abroad, you
still have Walmart.
You still have your Safeway, youknow?
UNKNOWN (05:58):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (05:58):
But when I go back, there are a lot of changes.
Especially the last 10 years,it's a lot of change happened.
But there is now the like gayrights are, you know, they're
getting a lot of noise.
But growing up, it'sunfortunately in any other
countries in being gay and transpeople, it's very compressed.
(06:20):
Yeah.
Okay.
And were you living, because wedid another episode once for
someone toured people for likenomadic living.
Did you live in a city when youwere there or did you move
around?
Yeah.
I was born in countryside, but Iraised in the city.
But if you go to countrysidenow, the people are still living
(06:40):
as...
Hundreds of years ago, exactlythe same.
The families wrap up the yurt,like Westerners call it yurt, we
call it gear, wrap up, follow upthe animal.
They need the pastures, organicpastures, three times to move
around the year.
So it's still the same.
(07:01):
And the kids go to school in,like I make, we call it like
province center, like dormitory.
And the family still, you know,the quarter still move around
three times a year.
My grandparents lived in themountains.
I'm from northern side ofMongolia, close to Russia.
(07:23):
So they were in the highmountains.
My grandparents lived in a tipi,kind of like Native Indians live
in a tipi.
Sounds so cold.
When I went to, first time Iwent to Yosemite, they said
Native Indians and tipi.
I was like, oh my God, that's mygrandparents exactly lived in
(07:46):
the same shape after, you know,living situation is very
similar.
And then also they even did,very spiritual.
The shamans are still the same.
It's very interesting howsimilar the Native Indians and
Mongolians are, especially thefacial features are very
(08:06):
similar.
I cannot distinguish betweenNative Indians, Tibetan, and
Mongolian.
I'm really good atdistinguishing.
Oh, Chinese-Japanese is easy,but for some reason, Tibetan and
Native Indians, Mongolian, it'svery, very similar.
I was watching this show calledApocalypse Ancient Something
(08:28):
Civilizations, and they talkedabout how people actually from
Mongolia came over across intoAlaska.
It used to all be connected, andthen they came down.
Oh my gosh, it's such aninteresting show.
Wow.
So do you speak any Russiansince you were kind of close to
Russia?
Well, we learned in high, inmiddle and high schools.
(08:48):
We have a lot of, that's why Ihave more Russian accent than a
lot of people think I'm fromEastern Europe because my second
language is Russian.
I really need to refresh myRussian language.
If I go back to Russia, I think,you know, I will be okay, but I
miss Russian language.
I need to, I need to refresh it.
Yeah.
So, and what's the nativelanguage in Mongolia?
(09:11):
It's Ling it's completelydifferent than Chinese and
Japanese and Korea.
I think it's a similar thingFamily is a Turkish language.
We have similar words there.
But it's completely differentlanguages.
It's very different.
And does the whole country speakthe same language?
(09:31):
Yeah, the whole country speaksthe same language.
Only one language, Mongolian.
It's like the population hasgrown up.
It's a big sandwich country, ifyou guys know that.
It's landlocked between Russiaand China.
In 1921, Russians came toMongolia, like, great
Bolsheviks.
(09:51):
They came to Mongolia, helped usto kick Chinese out.
And Chinese has dominatedMongolia hundreds of years.
Even though Mongolia, we wereable to keep the language and
keep the culture.
But even though there's stillsome, like, culture influence
there.
But, you know, like, with thelanguage, like, Mongolian, it's
(10:13):
like we always, we keep thelanguage and it's very amazing
how tiny bit, like populationwise, we're so tiny growing up,
growing up like Mongolianpopulation at 2.3 million
people.
And now maybe close to 3million, but still it's very,
you know, comparing with thecountry size, population is
(10:33):
very, very small.
Oh yeah.
And that's like less than all ofColorado.
Wow.
Yeah.
That's much bigger.
I was also curious, like, um,It's cold there, right?
Well, yeah, the summer is veryshort.
And then it's very, very cold.
And, you know, like, especiallypeople in the countryside living
(10:54):
in New York, they're like veryefficient way, everything.
But it's very, very cold.
Even though it's warmer thanChicago cold.
I went to Chicago a couple oftimes.
Evanston, my friend lives there,Evanston.
And right next to the MichiganLake.
The wind goes to your bone.
(11:16):
But it's in the Mongolian.
We have the right gear, likewarm shoes.
Yeah.
That helps.
Even though women in the city,we still wear high heels, still
have proper makeup, high heels.
Nice.
I...
I don't know.
Like, I used to wear high heelsin the snow and the ice.
(11:36):
I don't know how we were ableto.
I was just talking about it withmy sister.
Like, I don't know how we didit.
But, you know, because ourexperience is, like, really
important.
Like, if I go back to Mongolianow without my nails done
proper, like, decent look,people, like, will, like...
You know, are you okay?
(11:56):
California hippie.
Yeah.
People will ask, are you okay?
I cannot wear my, you know, yogapants, Lululemon yoga pants.
Can I go to grocery store?
You have to put together.
I think it's still there.
I think it's a lot.
It's a woman I really will puttogether.
Even in the winter, we had themink coat, like, you know.
(12:20):
Now, Is that when you're in thecountryside, too, or just in the
city?
It's mostly in the city, eventhough countryside and the
center still especially teachwomen really well.
But that's how you respectyourself.
That's how we tell, you know, ifyou respect yourself, you, you
know, you sleep together, youknow.
Yeah, that is interesting.
(12:42):
Anyway, yeah.
So I just, I admire Mongolianwomen now.
I understand more, like, anyway,yeah.
UNKNOWN (12:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (12:50):
Well, and I'm also curious, first off, I was like,
oh my gosh, how did yourgrandparents in their yurt stay
warm, their teepee stay warm andfire?
Like, what did that look likeliving in that growing up or
when you were there?
My grandparents, unfortunately,I didn't know them.
They passed away before...
I know before, I think they'repast women, I was three years
(13:12):
old.
Well, like any, they have a,like they grab the wood and they
make a firewood, but it's again,the place is small and then they
need, they had what they need.
They don't have extra.
Still grown up during communisttime, you know, the happiest
childhood.
My parents have like employment,very secure, they're free, free
(13:36):
healthcare.
And then, but we didn't ownanything, you know, like my
father bought a When I was inhigh school, I didn't like it.
He wanted me to take to school.
I didn't like it because Ididn't want to look like
capitalist, you know, like...
We didn't need it.
(13:58):
Yeah.
We need, my thing about it, wehad everything there, but we
didn't have extra, but we didn'tneed the extra.
That's why the first time I wentto Safeway, I was really
overwhelmed.
I wanted to buy a green tea.
Entire shelf was tea selection.
Still, I can go to Safeway.
I go to, I like farmer's market.
(14:20):
I like Whole Foods.
If there's anything I canhandle, I traded yours.
If there's anything safe, myhusband goes there.
It's just too much.
Costco, don't even think aboutit.
Costco's good.
There's not so many choices.
It's a little bit easier.
That's true.
It's too much.
But it's too many quantities.
(14:41):
Overwhelming for me.
Yeah.
I like the small supermarket.
We call it supermarket, but it'snot super.
But I like good and smallthings.
You know, like especiallygroceries that, you know.
Yeah.
Anyway, yeah.
So when I, oh, babysat us, usedto be babysat.
I remember when I get pregnantand we're like buying all of
(15:01):
these things.
I tell my husband, we don't needthis.
Why do you need the changing thepad?
Like it just changed.
No, we need to have everything.
That's a whole differentconflict.
Oh, yeah.
We need to buy a binky, youknow.
Yeah.
UNKNOWN (15:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (15:15):
Pacifier?
Entire shelf was binky.
Again, all the hormones.
I'm pregnant.
Like, I just, I need to live.
It's too much.
I can imagine.
Like, no wonder I have onechild.
I couldn't do anything twice.
When I was curious, how is itliving at, like, when you grew
up in Mongolia, were the schoolssimilar?
What kind of, like, did you havebreakfast, lunch, dinner kind of
(15:36):
similar with there?
What are the foods and justlike?
Again, simple, like a breakfastlunch.
More like growing up, more like,We don't snack.
The thing I learned recently, wedon't snack.
Yeah.
We have, yeah, breakfast, lunchand dinner.
Dinner always like a familygathered.
(15:57):
And then because of we haveeverything small there.
We growing up in apartment, wedidn't have like big house and
price, especially in the city.
Like if you watch the SovietUnion, all still now in Russia,
like multiple layer, like floorsof big apartments.
That's how.
And then, you know, each familyhave a refrigerator small.
(16:18):
Every time in the evening, mymom will get the fresh
groceries, make a dinner andthen dinner and eat.
And the next day, if there'sleftover groceries, we can cook
and then we'll buy it on theway.
It's like we buy small things,not that big amount.
Oh, right.
And then, but the schools, wedon't have like schools.
We have the cafeteria, but weneed to buy it.
(16:41):
There's no, like here, likeevery school has a cafeteria,
eat our food, you know.
I don't remember, we didn't haveit.
The school is, we don't havekindergarten, we have a
preschool, but first grade till10th, we have only one school.
So 10 years, you are the samepeople.
That's why we are reallycommunity-wise very close-knit.
(17:03):
Like if my mom now passed away,my high school, not my middle
school, my school friends willcome to visit me to sit with me
to grieve like that's the thingI miss it a lot you know like
good time bad times thecommunity wise it's very very
strong my mom come to visit hereshe will look for her present
(17:23):
here high school friendsdaughters newborn like it's very
very welcome and I was like Howdoes it like, in a way, it's
like, yeah, I miss the classcommunity sometimes.
I agree.
I really love that sense ofcommunity is so powerful and
(17:44):
uplifting and just kind ofsharing.
I mean, I try to create it herejust around where I live and
other things.
But so is there, are there bigfamilies in Mongolia?
It sounds like you've got onechild.
Did you have any siblings there?
Yeah, I have one brother inMongolia, one of my sisters
here.
Now, like, women, families, andagain, population is growing.
(18:09):
The grown-up, 2.3 millionpeople, the families, like,
three and four kids, not...
And, oh, there, one thing is, ifwomen have delivered your fourth
child, you get a veryprestigious medal from the
government being...
Raising, like, what's therecognition?
(18:30):
Like, it's, I think it's like a,being a, like, reward, like
medal.
It's very prestigious if youhave a child.
Your purple heart or somethinglike you.
Yeah, the similar.
Honorable.
Very honorable.
And then when you go to thegovernment building, they wear
proper, really nice outfits.
And then, you know, here is it,government really appreciate
(18:52):
your, like, You know, it's ahard work.
I appreciate your work.
It's like fun.
And then if you have sevenchild, a great mother, it's
called a great mother middleone.
And then you get more than sevenchildren get the second one.
Wow.
Mothers are really wellrespected there.
It's very interesting.
(19:14):
Yeah.
Do moms work as well?
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Grown up, all the mothers,there's no...
Homestead mothers.
Everyone works there.
Because, you know, childcare isvery secure.
Your work employment is verysustainable.
And then free education and freemedical care.
(19:35):
And you need to work.
Everything is.
So what kind of government isthat that offers all that free?
Is it socialist?
Socialist, yeah.
And then until 1991, one, duringthe Soviet Union collapsed,
during the Karabachov, and thenthe entire country has changed
(19:58):
because we have, like, eventhough we've been independent
since 1921, we are kind of,like, sister country.
Like, a lot of Soviets influencethere.
A lot of, we have, like, a lotof Russian influence there.
And then, like, Russians, we,all of the products, everything,
imports, everything from Russia,Soviet Union.
(20:18):
And Soviet Union lived...
We are on our own.
So we start to face a lot ofdifficulties.
Like your mom and dad left,you're on your own when you're a
child.
You have to learn how to survivethe entire country.
We had a very different, forfive years during this
transition period, I waspre-teen and we shortage of
(20:41):
food, shortage of medical care.
And we had like special, likesmall, like registering book
from the government,distributing food based on the
family, number of families, youknow, that's like weekly, like
essential groceries.
(21:02):
And just quite tough time thattime.
So was that because you weremore in the northern part of the
country?
Is the southern part that'scloser to China, were they more
China influenced or...?
Is it the whole country is moreRussia-influenced?
More Russia-influenced.
Interesting.
Since 1921 till 1990, if youguys learn back to how Soviet
(21:25):
Union class, all the formersocialist communist country,
Eastern European countries, howclass it, that's Mongolian was
Central Asian.
Mongolia was one of thesecountries.
That's why we had like a lot ofdifficulties to offer it.
And then, you know, it's a lot.
It's really hard working foryears.
(21:46):
Entire government changed.
Even though we didn't have onesingle gunshot, the government
changed dramatically.
Even though dramatically,there's no conflicts.
We didn't have like hungerstrike, like any gunshots, any
government from socialist tofree market, democratic system,
(22:07):
you know.
And then we really, reallysmooth transition by then.
So my childhood, I see thecommunist, socialist and
transition and then a capitalistand free market.
It's a different period happenedback in Mongolia.
Do you think they still havefree healthcare?
No, of course, you know, likethere's nothing is free there.
(22:33):
But still now, like I wastalking to my mom like a week
ago.
When you get sick, you call toyour hospital doctor and they
will come to your house.
Instead of you go to ER, thedoctors will come to you to
check your blood pressure andbasic checkups.
And then if you really need togo to hospital, you would go.
(22:57):
Otherwise, they will prescribecertain things from the
pharmacy.
There's no, again, if you needbetter health.
care, you will go to privatehospitals, you know, but you
have to pay.
Now there's a lot of changehappened when I was away, but
growing up, you know, myhealthcare was free, like Even
(23:21):
the other place, even ourapartment even belonged to this
state.
And then after transition, wehad to own this place.
My mom was like, no, this is notmine.
This is the government.
I don't need that.
Like, yeah.
So a lot of change happened bythen.
Yeah.
Wow.
(23:42):
Okay.
And then the southern half ofthe country on a map, it's much
like whiter.
Is that where the mountains are?
Yes.
Mountains are in the northernside.
In the southern side, it's agobi.
It's like a desert, like all theway, like, you know, camel and
sand, like southern.
It's like northern side, it'slike Lake Tahoe, you know, like
mountains, mountains.
(24:02):
My family's from there.
Every time we go to Mongolia, wego to southern side.
It's like Lake Tahoe.
The southern side is?
No, on the southern side.
The southern side is via people,but just desert.
Okay, so not a lot of towns inthat area?
Yeah.
There's a lot of towns,actually.
(24:23):
I'm just looking at the map, andthe very top of it looks green,
and the rest looks brown, andthen there looks like almost a
whole bunch of white towards thebottom, which may be the desert.
Yeah, yeah, deserts, yeah.
And then, again, Avery, we usedto have 18 provinces, like
States kind of.
And then now maybe it havechanged government 18.
(24:45):
And then again, some divided bythen the biggest side, the
smaller side, they all have thecenters.
That's how they're like all thehospitals and schools and then
other like small families heardthis around, you know.
And then just south of Mongolia,it looks like actually in China,
it says Inner Mongolia.
I just saw that.
(25:06):
Yeah, it's...
I think Chinese, I think theygot that part.
The other people more proud tobe Mongolians.
They think they are Mongolians,but outer Mongolians, we think
they are Chinese, even thoughthey are the ones who keep the
traditional scripts from China.
(25:28):
Talk to bottom ones.
We had the Russian influence.
We have Cyrillic.
We use the Cyrillics.
Yeah.
But they're speaking differentdialect.
And again, the Chinese, my momsaid they used to have a lot of
Mongolian culture there.
But during the ChineseRevolution, they sent a lot of
Chinese people the book, youknow, like destroyed the
(25:50):
temples, you know, like karaokeand like all of the supermarket,
a lot of change there.
Okay.
It's almost like our New York orsomething.
It's not really.
I know I was going to ask you,do you, can you understand them
when they talk?
Is it just kind of a littledifferent accent or?
A different accent.
Yeah.
I can.
Yeah.
If I go to, you know, Mongolia,even the blue, blue capital, I
(26:14):
don't know why they keep itstill there, but still they have
to cross the border,international border.
And then I can understand them,but they have like a lot of
Chinese influence there.
Yeah.
It's a Chinese, and it's acountry.
I don't know.
Yeah, the people also, are youfrom outer Mongolia, inner
Mongolia?
I couldn't understand.
There's only one Mongolia, youknow.
(26:34):
Maybe my proud ego maybe kicksin this, but there's inner
Mongolia.
So did you say blue capital?
Yeah, that's the innerMongolians, the capital called,
not capital, the city calledinner blue.
Hukhut.
Hukh means blue.
Okay.
Yeah.
UNKNOWN (26:54):
Oh.
SPEAKER_00 (26:55):
I haven't seen.
And then Ulaanbaatar, is that?
That's where I'm from.
Yeah, Ulaanbaatar, yeah.
Yeah, got it.
And then I was looking at InnerMongolia.
I don't see where it says thatI'm totally butchered.
Oh, yeah, Ulaanbaatar, yeah,yeah, yeah.
Okay, Ulaanbaatar.
Yeah, Ulaanbaatar, yeah.
UNKNOWN (27:16):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (27:16):
Got it.
It's like, I don't know if I'msaying it correctly, but the
buildings, there's like regularbuildings and then there's these
beautiful old, you know, itlooks, it's sorry to say if it's
the palaces.
UNKNOWN (27:34):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (27:34):
Oh, the temples.
Oh, the temples.
Okay.
Like this kind of building, likeit's temple.
We are Buddhist.
The Mongolians are Buddhist.
We were Buddhist until 1921, butduring like socialist country,
you're not supposed to have anyreligious, you know?
Oh, really?
Not supposed to have religion?
No religious growing up.
(27:55):
Like if you be not even allowedto, you know, again, Russians,
Soviet Union did fantastic job1921 you know mongolian we did
like woman again educationalliteracy was 90 97 and the
woman's right in education andthe health care that's a
(28:16):
fantastic job though we need anysocialist communist country
there's no religious it isthat's why during that time a
lot of temples are destroyed,unfortunately.
And then growing up, you know,there's no God, there's no
religious, but all the familiesmay be very, modest way to
(28:38):
celebrate Lunar New Year.
You know, it's a religious, wehave, you're supposed to
celebrate only New Year, youknow, not Lunar New Year.
So they were one temple in thecapital, but very, they were two
big monks there, but verymodest, you know.
If you see, if I see NorthKorean, It's very similar
(29:02):
growing up, but they're awful,you know, they cannot, but like
the structure, yeah, thestructure is very similar.
You know, we're not allowed toleave any other countries except
communist countries.
Romania, Czechoslovakia, youknow, like Soviet Union, you
know, they're okay, but we'renot allowed to even go to visit
(29:23):
any, not the, East Germany, Ithink, okay, a lot of people get
integrated in Cuba, in, formerSoviet country, Soviet Union,
and then Eastern Europeancountries.
But not for, you know, not for,America not even think about
(29:44):
that, that America is gun money,the real, like, all this, like,
propaganda, you know, likeAmericans, which still true,
they're gun and money, but, youknow.
Okay.
So was it hard for you to cometo America then?
No, by then it's changed a lot.
I had traveled a lotinternationally for my work, but
(30:06):
still getting behind, we need toget a visa.
So under my passport, I had alot of countries visa, but still
it's safe a woman invite me.
So my American friend, sheinvited me.
That's easier than...
men invite me, you know.
(30:26):
Oh, okay.
Still, it's very difficult toget a visa, American visa.
A tourist visa is still verystrict in other countries, yeah.
Oh, okay.
Oh, my goodness.
I thought before Americans goingto Mongolia, is that pretty
open?
No, very open, yeah.
And I think, I don't think youneed a visa on like 30 days.
(30:48):
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
But if you live there longer,you need to like certain other
documents.
We had someone on the podcastthat is from here, loves
Mongolia, goes in kind of the,you know, outdoors area.
areas and loves it.
Last time when I was inMongolia, I took two sets of
(31:10):
family, 10 of us went, my son'sfriend's family, 10 of us went
from San Francisco to Shanghai,Shanghai to Beijing.
And then we took atrans-Siberian train from
Beijing to Ulaanbaatar.
And then we traveled to Northand South.
And then I was really proud oflike, my country, you know, like
(31:31):
when you stop by in acountryside, the yurt, like
nothing is a couple of yurt.
When I go there, there's no evenlock.
You can come in and then familyor have tea and sit and talk.
It's really nice.
I really wanted to show themreal, you know, how what the
(31:53):
countryside is.
So they were like, big gatheringis happening.
I was like, what is it?
Let's go there.
And then we went there likefamily reunion.
And then when joined it, theyask her to come sit and then
play and then very curious aboutforeigners.
It's nice, you know, we cannot,in Texas, if I go there, I
cannot crash the family reunion,you know.
(32:15):
Going back there, they're very,you know, like family open.
Oh, I went to America years ago,this, this, and then city and
then play it like, I was like,oh, this is my people.
Everyone is welcoming.
Yeah.
That's so wonderful.
What kind of tea do youtypically have there?
We call it green tea, but it'snot the green tea we drink here.
(32:39):
I think it's a black tea with atiny bit of salt, a bit of
cream.
With salt?
Salt and cream, yeah.
Wow, it's so funny becauseusually here it's sugar and
cream.
Sugar and cream, yeah.
And they're like salt and cream.
Yeah, I think it's a black tea.
But because of color, we alwayssay, oh, we drink green tea.
It's a green tea.
(33:00):
But now when I think of it, it'snot a green tea.
I think we get it a lot fromUzbekistan or Tajikistan.
They have a very big tea.
I think it's more from there,yeah.
Oh, my goodness.
Wow.
And then what about jobs?
I'm just curious.
I find people jobs.
So I was curious, is it all...
Because it looks likeUlaanbaatar is a city.
(33:24):
So people, I'm sure there'sbanks and...
Oh, yeah, yeah.
It's like any other big cities.
Again, a lot of young generationstruggles finding a job.
You don't see any homelesspeople in the city.
But still, like any othercountries, we are having a lot
of employment issues there.
UNKNOWN (33:44):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (33:45):
Yeah, it's very difficult when I go back home,
how people are living, becausepeople's appearance is really,
well, good there.
But actually, what, you know,what's the behind that, what
they struggle with, you know,unless your family relatives
are, you know, really struggles,we would know.
But for the appearance, youcan't really, it's hard to know
(34:08):
them.
If someone are not doing wellfinancially or like, you know,
it's hard because the people,look good there yeah great yeah
yeah it's like uh people reallyput together families young
people like like dress well andlooking happy but even though
they still struggle behind thatlike financial and employment
(34:31):
and everything it's yeah it'slike i have i like to when i go
back i like to observe thepeople you know it's yeah that's
so interesting with like Youknow, because you said, Vern,
like, you know, your appearanceis really important.
You look good, but you alsodon't buy a lot of things, do
you?
So do people, like, have apretty small wardrobe?
And they just, it's clean andpressed, but it might not be for
(34:53):
you.
We iron things all the time.
Iron bed sheets, iron shirt, youknow?
You're having bed sheets, huh?
Oh, yeah, bed sheets.
Growing up, all those air, andwe're like, yeah, like, we don't
have, like, big wardrobe, youknow, like, every, still now,
like, three, four bedrooms, andthen maybe five family, five,
(35:16):
six families, but, you know, wehave to share everything, you
know, share the space, share thewardrobe.
Still, you would know, you wouldknow, because we don't buy
things that a lot.
That's also really, still, Ihave some difficulties to adjust
here.
Oh, yeah.
I have difficulties with it.
Especially Christmas time, youknow, like, how many presents
(35:39):
one person can open?
Like, I always have this,like...
difference with my husband.
I had to face it.
You know, we have one child andthen, okay, this is enough.
Now, I think it's just a few.
Maybe we need, no.
Yeah, you can watch the, there'sa documentary called Buy Now
that'll stop you from shoppingever again.
(36:00):
Oh, really?
Buy?
Buy Now.
I don't know if it's on Netflixor Apple or, but yeah, Buy Now.
Now.
Yeah.
I'm going to watch it because Ifeel this is a big thing for me
too.
And I, especially when the kidsare little, They just, I want
that.
I want that.
Please buy.
You know, you get a lot of that.
And you're like, yeah.
Yeah.
Well, yeah, that's how you grabit.
(36:22):
We didn't know.
Yeah.
I'm very careful about qualityand quantity.
And even though I can buyeverything for myself, but my
husband thinks, oh, you don't.
Yeah.
Less is more.
I actually remember talking tosomeone in Europe.
I can't remember.
And they said, when people go,like, was the men go to work,
(36:43):
they wear the same outfit allweek.
It's almost like a uniform.
And I was just thinking aboutthat the other day.
I'm like, men's suits probablywere really, uniform men would
probably have like two suits, aclean one and a dirty one, you
know?
But now men have like, you know,people that wear suits every day
probably have like 15, 20 suitsand then different ties.
You know, probably the tie waslike originally the only
(37:05):
difference.
Like you'd wear the exact samesuit every day and just change
your tie to mix it up.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Interesting.
So just curious, I know we'recoming up on Christmas.
So what does Christmas look likein Mongolia?
Oh, we don't celebrateChristmas.
Okay.
But we celebrate New Year.
(37:25):
Oh, okay.
Again, I don't think Russianscelebrate Christmas.
Again, we didn't have anyreligious.
There's no religious.
We can celebrate New Year.
Oh, New Year.
I miss New Year.
Every...
Companies have paid big, bigparties.
People warm and dress nice.
And like everything is like, Ireally miss that.
(37:48):
It's like all parties are realparties are there, you know,
like.
Nice.
Yeah.
So that's a new year like ourcalendar New Year's, not like
the Chinese New Year.
Yeah.
31st, December 30th, even thoughit's a family holiday.
Like every family has aChristmas tree and then cake and
flowers and champagne.
(38:08):
I don't know why cake, but likewe, my parents not let us to
sleep until midnight because wecelebrated like happy New Year,
you know, like, you know, likeit's very family oriented
holiday New Year.
It's like we have to, like, it'slike, it's like Thanksgiving,
you know, like we have to sit,eat together kind of things.
Oh my gosh.
(38:29):
So they, you do get to stay uptill midnight or you don't get
to stay up till midnight?
Oh, it's like, I have to, haveto, have to stand up.
We have to receive the New Yearlike that.
I don't know why even for smallkids can't go to bed.
Totally.
I remember going to MidnightMass and I was like, oh, this is
so hard with them.
Is Midnight Mass have to be inmidnight too?
(38:52):
Well, I guess.
I felt like it was 11 o'clock orsomething, 10, 11.
Yeah, I think that was typicalon Christmas.
So they'd always have like amidnight mass.
So then like not for New Year's,but on Christmas Day.
But then a lot of people, thekids couldn't stay up.
So then the churches startedhaving 11 o'clock and a 10
o'clock and an 8 o'clock.
Now I think it's like 5 o'clock.
(39:13):
Yeah, exactly.
So did you say they have aChristmas tree at New Year's?
Yeah, we call it New Year's tea.
We didn't call it Christmastree.
People start to put it nearChristmas tree around 26th,
27th.
Way after Christmas.
(39:34):
Oh my God.
And so, and is it a, is it apine tree?
Is it the same?
Oh, it's a plastic, plastic one.
Yeah.
It's freaking cold out there.
There's no, yeah.
Yeah.
And we even have a Santa, butSanta, we don't call it Santa,
winter camper.
And we have like, I think it'sall, if you see the, We have a
traditional outfit at Santa, butwe big cave and big white beard
(40:00):
and then certain gloves.
And then Santa come visitfamilies, give the presents to
small kids.
Uh-huh.
And it looks like Mongolia Santalooks like he belongs in the
North Pole with a very fluffybig hat.
Yes.
A beard and a big coat.
(40:20):
He looks very...
He looks, it's interesting, thelook, you know, he looks like,
you said Native American, butMongolian, right?
Oh, yeah.
Like, yeah.
And he's got, it looks likehe's, well, the picture I'm
seeing, he looks like he'sriding a horse, but it has
(40:42):
antlers.
And then he has a big, backpacksack.
It almost looks like one ofthose fabric things that you
wear babies with, but a hugebigger one that's honestly
filled with things.
It looks like a wizard.
It's very mixed with Santa'straditional old man.
(41:08):
That's so funny.
So interesting.
During Komi's time, I think wecreated it, yeah.
Wow.
Oh my gosh.
So would you get presents forthe New Year's?
Yeah, New Year's, the presentsare all like mandarin,
tangerine, and candies.
We didn't get any actualpresents by then.
(41:31):
It's just the candies andtangerines and fruit in winter,
like growing up.
Yeah, we didn't.
But in the Lunar New Year, Wehave a calendar, same as
Tibetans, different than Chinesefor some reason, always similar,
like two or three days eitherbehind or then front.
(41:53):
It's like it's never been linedin the same day.
It's always different day, theChinese Lunar New Year.
That one is a big celebration.
We have to have constantvisitors, relatives visit you
regularly.
If you have elders in yourfamily, the relatives visit you,
and then we eat dumplings andsit, talk.
(42:14):
And then the family, the elderswill give a present.
It's like a week-long holiday.
And it's nice.
Once in a year, you will see allof the relatives, two become
three, three become four, all ofthem bringing kids, and then sit
and talk and eat dumplings.
Oh, nice.
UNKNOWN (42:35):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (42:35):
So I definitely have some of our rapid fire
questions.
I sent that to you so long ago.
I don't know if you remember,but they're pretty easy.
Yeah, pretty easy.
Okay.
So other than Christmas or NewYear's, is there another popular
holiday tradition?
Oh, yeah.
In July 11th, it's IndependenceDay.
(42:56):
I think it's a day we kick theChinese out.
I think it's like, that's areally big holiday.
We call it free men's, we callit nadam.
It's like free, it's a horseracing and wrestling and then
archery.
SPEAKER_01 (43:13):
That's
SPEAKER_00 (43:14):
a big celebration.
That's the most popular touristseason by that.
And every other place iscelebrating a week-long
celebration, horse racing andwrestling and then archery.
It's summertime and peoplerelax, watch the horse racing
and wrestling is a big sport andthen archery too.
(43:36):
And it's actually, it looks likeit goes for four days?
Yeah, maybe less.
like officially four days, butlike you're not going to do any
business that week, wholeentire, even for a month.
Yeah.
It's like everyone is like,everything is like tomorrow,
tomorrow, tomorrow, like nobusiness.
Gotta enjoy summer, right?
Yeah.
(43:56):
Because our summer is veryshort.
We have to celebrate at leastone week.
Yeah, exactly.
It looks like, does the datechange?
Or you said July 11th.
Yeah, it's almost July 11th,yeah.
It says, N-A-A-D-A-M fromFriday, July 11th to Tuesday,
July 15th.
Yeah.
(44:17):
Oh, and it says Mongolia, InnerMongolia and Tuva is where it
is.
Oh, this is Tuva.
Yeah.
I think, I don't know.
Yeah.
Is that another country?
Yeah.
I think Tuva is, I think thatwas a part of the Soviet Union.
And I think maybe it's a countrynow, like with the center, like
(44:38):
central, I think it's a centralAsia.
Yeah.
Oh, wow.
It looks, this is reallyinteresting.
And I see, what is this?
It looks like girls with a wholebunch of, like a sash with a
whole bunch of patches all theway down.
Oh, like horse riders?
Well, I actually clicked on it.
Oh, wow.
(44:58):
They have a, yes.
There's a whole bunch of horsesand they're just running across
a field.
Yeah.
Is that, and everyone's gothelmets and A name, or is it a
horse race?
Oh, horse race, yeah.
Yeah, I think nowadays wearinghelmets, but, you know, growing
(45:21):
up, no one is wearing helmets.
And, you know, like horse ridingis like, you can learn, you
know, when you're free, youknow, three years old, you will
see three or four years old,you're riding horse and cattle,
like it's a very normal holiday,yeah.
Yeah, I see horses.
You said archery, which I see aswell.
I see traditional outfits,beautiful outfits with a very
(45:46):
long.
Yeah, that's for men.
Yeah, it's very colorful.
And I thought I heard you saywrestling, and I actually see
some men wrestling.
Yeah, only men wrestle, notwomen doing that.
Yeah.
Very interesting outfit, by theway.
Yeah.
Bikini.
(46:07):
You see that?
Bikini bottoms with very, very,very big, like, I'll call them
cowboy boots, but very bigboots, like boots.
Yeah.
And then a very small halter topthat looks like it's tied on the
sides here.
Yeah.
Very different.
Very different.
Yeah.
Like, wow.
(46:27):
So, yeah.
Horse race, wrestling, archery,knuckle bone shooting.
Oh, yeah.
Knucklebone shooting.
I think that's not the official,like, free games, but that's
the, like, you can be a part of.
I think it's, I don't reallyhave family with it.
I think they're, like, how faryou can, what do you call this
(46:48):
one?
Like, how far the knuckleballplayers go.
It's wherever it gets thefarther away.
I think, yeah.
Yeah, it says anklebone andshooting and must be
knucklebone, something likethat.
That's, yeah.
definitely different.
Yeah, a lot of foreigners go tothat nadam during tourist
(47:08):
season, yeah.
Yeah, so they go in July tocheck out.
July, yeah, it's very crowded.
Everything is really busy atthat time, like busy, like
holiday busy, yeah.
Is that, are there otherholidays that someone, or if
you're wanting to travel toMongolia and check it out, that
would be An event too.
Yeah, event.
Yeah.
But again, that will be likebusiness time.
(47:30):
But even after NADM, maybe someof the countryside, some of
them, they have like mini NADM,you know, to attract the
tourists.
Otherwise, that's like a main.
We don't have many likecelebration holidays.
Only Lunar New Year and thenNADM.
Like only two, yeah.
Yeah.
That's interesting.
I love it.
(47:51):
Yeah.
And so what is your favoritemeal when you go back?
My favorite, oh, it's like, kindof like perushki, but it's like,
I think we get it from Russia.
Like, it's like a fried, it'scalled khoshur.
It's like a dumpling, but flat.
It's a fried, fried dumpling.
(48:11):
What's inside?
Just, you know.
Food, we have like most boringfood in the world.
We have, because it's hard togrow vegetables there because of
season, you know.
Right, I remember it's like alot of beets, right?
Yeah, it's like beef in salt,herbs, and then flour, you know.
Oh, okay.
That sounds really good.
And what's a typical breakfast?
(48:34):
When I breakfast, we eat a lotof like eggs and toast.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
Pretty similar.
Yeah.
UNKNOWN (48:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (48:41):
And what is the money call and how do you, like,
how would a tourist handle themoney there when they go?
I think Tukruk.
Okay.
Yeah.
And I think they bring the cash.
Okay.
Again, I wouldn't be surprisedif when someone is there, oh,
you can pay through Apple, youknow, like there's certain
things the way I had my phonewhen I was two years old.
(49:06):
In 2000, I had my cell phone.
My even husband was like, oh myGod, you have cell phone.
Like, yeah, everyone has a cellphone.
But here, the cell phone cameway later.
Like, yeah, it's like somecertain things we have very,
like we get it way beforeAmerica, like technology, but a
lot of things like way after,yeah.
(49:27):
We had like, I wouldn't besurprised all the money
transactions goes through thephone, you know, some certain
apps.
Yeah.
All righty.
And then one question we ask is,we just ask every time, the
closest place to surf, I wouldsay probably in the lake.
Is there like anything such aslike wake surfing or wake
boarding out there or waterskiing?
(49:48):
No.
We're afraid of water.
And we're not even growing up,water is very precious thing.
If you go see any lake inspring, it's We just, we cannot
even put our feet on therebecause it's very spirit things.
We only, we can't even go, can'teven think about peeing there.
(50:08):
It's very sacred things.
We should just go like tap thewater, put in the head first,
you know, it's like, we can'teven think.
I don't know nowadays, but likegrowing up, we can't even put
your things, anything, even yourfeet, because it's nature of
sacred things.
Oh, that's so interesting.
Yeah.
And it's probably so cold too,right?
(50:29):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's cold.
Yeah.
Are you, well, you said youdrink cheese.
Most people drink coffee or teaor both?
Tea.
Nowadays, maybe in the capital,but we don't have Starbucks, but
there's a lot of coffee shops.
People drink coffee.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, that's it for my rapidfire questions.
(50:51):
Yeah.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Of course.
Thank you for having me.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We loved it.
It gave me such a differentvisual and feeling about
Mongolia.
And honestly, I do remember...
the first person, it was veryinteresting.
And I thought, okay, well, youknow, I don't know if that would
(51:11):
be for me.
But after talking with you, I'mlike, oh my goodness, this
sounds really a treat to go.
I would love to go.
Oh, yeah.
Oh my God.
If you go, let me know.
But it's very interesting.
You'll see how people lived 300years ago.
It's still the same.
SPEAKER_01 (51:30):
Nothing
SPEAKER_00 (51:31):
has changed.
But it's in a good way howeverything changed.
you you cannot waste but stillpeople are going this way you
know like and then again in thecapital you will see people you
know like any other big citieswomen will look at time bank you
know the things that some someof them is too materialistic for
(51:52):
me but it's it's very it's oneway you can see two buff sides
in one place yeah it almostseems like everyone needs to go
there because Or watch the BuyNow video.
Oh, yeah.
I would love that.
Yeah.
Especially before Christmas.
(52:13):
Yes.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Wonderful.
Well, thank you so much.
Of course.
Thank you.
Absolutely.
Thank you, Grace.
Nice to meet you.
Bye-bye.
Have a good weekend.
Bye.
Happy holidays.
Happy holidays.
Bye.
Thanks for listening.
If you enjoyed the podcast, canyou please take a second and do
(52:33):
a quick follow of the show andrate us in your podcast app?
And if you have a minute, wewould really appreciate a
review.
Following and rating is the bestway to support us.
If you're on Instagram, let'sconnect.
We're at where next podcast.
Thanks again.
UNKNOWN (53:00):
Thank you.
Hi, welcome to our podcast, Where Next?
Travel with Kristen and Carol.
I am Kristen.
And I am Carol.
(00:22):
And we're two long-term friendswith a passion for travel and
adventure.
Each episode, we interviewpeople around the globe to help
us decide where to go next.
In this episode, we once againvisit Mongolia.
In episode 63, we hadinterviewed an American who fell
in love with the country andmoved there.
(00:43):
And this time we were speakingto a local that grew up in
Mongolia and has moved to theU.S.
Tungso is so passionate abouther love for her country and
shares what makes it so special.
We talk about the holidays, thehistory, and we discuss how the
culture is very different thanhere in the U.S., especially
around material items.
(01:03):
Enjoy.
Dukso, thank you so much forjoining our next podcast today.
And thanks in advance forteaching us about Mongolia.
We're so excited.
Of course, yeah.
I'm happy to.
Thank you for having me.
Sure.
I'd love to start and say, whendid you come here to the U.S.?
You grew up in Mongolia.
What did that look like?
(01:24):
All your history.
Well, yeah, I was born andraised in Mongolia.
I met my husband in Mongolia.
He was a peace governor.
I had a lot of foreign friendsover there, but When I decided
to, well, I came here to visitfirst and to see the, you know,
like after he finished a twoyear period of Peace Corps time
(01:48):
and he came back and I visited,you know, who wouldn't like
California in November, October.
SPEAKER_01 (01:53):
especially Bay Area.
UNKNOWN (01:54):
Oh, it's beautiful.
He took me to Yosemite.
I love this.
Oh, I loved it.
And then, like, I went backagain, still not sure, you know,
and then I went back againfollowing the year in March, and
then I welcomed my collegefriends who are here.
It's, you know, like, diverseand different languages and
food, you know, like, I lovedit.
SPEAKER_00 (02:13):
And then, and then after living with my husband six
months, we were like, you knowwhat, here we are talking about,
like, the document, a foreigner,I can't, just being your
girlfriend forever.
You know, I have to eat the inand out of the relationship, you
know?
And then we decided to getmarried.
And then that's the...
Luckily, my husband, as he livedin Mongolia, he knows my people,
(02:38):
he knows my culture, and he'sfrom Bay Area.
That really helped me to move inthere.
It's a lot of challenge, butagain, I went to sick after
several years later, and Irecovered, and I get treatment.
Amazing.
I cannot say anything.
negative things about Americaespecially the science you know
(02:59):
I'm into science and it's likebeen through a lot but again
it's it's a great country youknow that even though there are
a lot of things that stillastonishing me you know like I
didn't know like woman paid lessthan men until very recently I
was like what and just be justbeing a woman you can get paid
(03:24):
list.
I couldn't understand that.
It's still, I'm having sometroubles, but, you know, there
are a lot of things.
It's very interesting.
It's still challenging tounderstand.
It's difficult to adjust it,yeah.
And I'm so interested in, Iremember when we talked, you
said that, and it kind ofshocked me because, and it's
(03:45):
kind of weird that That would bea normal thing for us to just
understand.
Like, yep, that's just the wayit is.
Well, why is that?
Because we're still doing thesame thing.
But in Mongolia, how is thatbetween women and men and women
working?
Well, the women, because we havea lot of influence from Soviet
Union, you know, they were doingcommunist time, women's work.
(04:09):
Women are really strong.
Most of the, like, you know,teachers and doctors, all the
women are really educated.
Again, like any other country,it's like decision-making
positions are mostly men.
Even though women's right ismuch higher, women are more
respected than any othercountries.
(04:31):
I didn't know that.
Like, because even their name,if...
We don't have he, shelinguistically.
We have that person.
And through email or writingexchange, the person would know
I'm a woman.
Until if we see each other, wedon't have the gender
(04:54):
linguistically.
Maybe that's one of the factorsthat can affect a woman's
language.
role, I think.
And then again, families, theyinvest so much for girls'
integration than men.
We believe, oh, men can get bydoing some labor work.
(05:17):
They can be okay.
But the women, we needintegration.
So if there's a family havechoices between women and men,
girl and boy, we invest moregirls for integration side.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it just kind of like thewhole, like, not really having
the he, she pronouns.
Is there any, like, trans peoplethat are, or like non-binary, as
(05:41):
we call them here?
No, not really.
Again, you know, I left thecountry almost 20 years ago.
If you guys going back home, youknow, after living abroad, you
still have Walmart.
You still have your Safeway, youknow?
UNKNOWN (05:58):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (05:58):
But when I go back, there are a lot of changes.
Especially the last 10 years,it's a lot of change happened.
But there is now the like gayrights are, you know, they're
getting a lot of noise.
But growing up, it'sunfortunately in any other
countries in being gay and transpeople, it's very compressed.
(06:20):
Yeah.
Okay.
And were you living, because wedid another episode once for
someone toured people for likenomadic living.
Did you live in a city when youwere there or did you move
around?
Yeah.
I was born in countryside, but Iraised in the city.
But if you go to countrysidenow, the people are still living
(06:40):
as...
Hundreds of years ago, exactlythe same.
The families wrap up the yurt,like Westerners call it yurt, we
call it gear, wrap up, follow upthe animal.
They need the pastures, organicpastures, three times to move
around the year.
So it's still the same.
(07:01):
And the kids go to school in,like I make, we call it like
province center, like dormitory.
And the family still, you know,the quarter still move around
three times a year.
My grandparents lived in themountains.
I'm from northern side ofMongolia, close to Russia.
(07:23):
So they were in the highmountains.
My grandparents lived in a tipi,kind of like Native Indians live
in a tipi.
Sounds so cold.
When I went to, first time Iwent to Yosemite, they said
Native Indians and tipi.
I was like, oh my God, that's mygrandparents exactly lived in
(07:46):
the same shape after, you know,living situation is very
similar.
And then also they even did,very spiritual.
The shamans are still the same.
It's very interesting howsimilar the Native Indians and
Mongolians are, especially thefacial features are very
(08:06):
similar.
I cannot distinguish betweenNative Indians, Tibetan, and
Mongolian.
I'm really good atdistinguishing.
Oh, Chinese-Japanese is easy,but for some reason, Tibetan and
Native Indians, Mongolian, it'svery, very similar.
I was watching this show calledApocalypse Ancient Something
(08:28):
Civilizations, and they talkedabout how people actually from
Mongolia came over across intoAlaska.
It used to all be connected, andthen they came down.
Oh my gosh, it's such aninteresting show.
Wow.
So do you speak any Russiansince you were kind of close to
Russia?
Well, we learned in high, inmiddle and high schools.
(08:48):
We have a lot of, that's why Ihave more Russian accent than a
lot of people think I'm fromEastern Europe because my second
language is Russian.
I really need to refresh myRussian language.
If I go back to Russia, I think,you know, I will be okay, but I
miss Russian language.
I need to, I need to refresh it.
Yeah.
So, and what's the nativelanguage in Mongolia?
(09:11):
It's Ling it's completelydifferent than Chinese and
Japanese and Korea.
I think it's a similar thingFamily is a Turkish language.
We have similar words there.
But it's completely differentlanguages.
It's very different.
And does the whole country speakthe same language?
(09:31):
Yeah, the whole country speaksthe same language.
Only one language, Mongolian.
It's like the population hasgrown up.
It's a big sandwich country, ifyou guys know that.
It's landlocked between Russiaand China.
In 1921, Russians came toMongolia, like, great
Bolsheviks.
(09:51):
They came to Mongolia, helped usto kick Chinese out.
And Chinese has dominatedMongolia hundreds of years.
Even though Mongolia, we wereable to keep the language and
keep the culture.
But even though there's stillsome, like, culture influence
there.
But, you know, like, with thelanguage, like, Mongolian, it's
(10:13):
like we always, we keep thelanguage and it's very amazing
how tiny bit, like populationwise, we're so tiny growing up,
growing up like Mongolianpopulation at 2.3 million
people.
And now maybe close to 3million, but still it's very,
you know, comparing with thecountry size, population is
(10:33):
very, very small.
Oh yeah.
And that's like less than all ofColorado.
Wow.
Yeah.
That's much bigger.
I was also curious, like, um,It's cold there, right?
Well, yeah, the summer is veryshort.
And then it's very, very cold.
And, you know, like, especiallypeople in the countryside living
(10:54):
in New York, they're like veryefficient way, everything.
But it's very, very cold.
Even though it's warmer thanChicago cold.
I went to Chicago a couple oftimes.
Evanston, my friend lives there,Evanston.
And right next to the MichiganLake.
The wind goes to your bone.
(11:16):
But it's in the Mongolian.
We have the right gear, likewarm shoes.
Yeah.
That helps.
Even though women in the city,we still wear high heels, still
have proper makeup, high heels.
Nice.
I...
I don't know.
Like, I used to wear high heelsin the snow and the ice.
(11:36):
I don't know how we were ableto.
I was just talking about it withmy sister.
Like, I don't know how we didit.
But, you know, because ourexperience is, like, really
important.
Like, if I go back to Mongolianow without my nails done
proper, like, decent look,people, like, will, like...
You know, are you okay?
(11:56):
California hippie.
Yeah.
People will ask, are you okay?
I cannot wear my, you know, yogapants, Lululemon yoga pants.
Can I go to grocery store?
You have to put together.
I think it's still there.
I think it's a lot.
It's a woman I really will puttogether.
Even in the winter, we had themink coat, like, you know.
(12:20):
Now, Is that when you're in thecountryside, too, or just in the
city?
It's mostly in the city, eventhough countryside and the
center still especially teachwomen really well.
But that's how you respectyourself.
That's how we tell, you know, ifyou respect yourself, you, you
know, you sleep together, youknow.
Yeah, that is interesting.
(12:42):
Anyway, yeah.
So I just, I admire Mongolianwomen now.
I understand more, like, anyway,yeah.
UNKNOWN (12:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (12:50):
Well, and I'm also curious, first off, I was like,
oh my gosh, how did yourgrandparents in their yurt stay
warm, their teepee stay warm andfire?
Like, what did that look likeliving in that growing up or
when you were there?
My grandparents, unfortunately,I didn't know them.
They passed away before...
I know before, I think they'repast women, I was three years
(13:12):
old.
Well, like any, they have a,like they grab the wood and they
make a firewood, but it's again,the place is small and then they
need, they had what they need.
They don't have extra.
Still grown up during communisttime, you know, the happiest
childhood.
My parents have like employment,very secure, they're free, free
(13:36):
healthcare.
And then, but we didn't ownanything, you know, like my
father bought a When I was inhigh school, I didn't like it.
He wanted me to take to school.
I didn't like it because Ididn't want to look like
capitalist, you know, like...
We didn't need it.
(13:58):
Yeah.
We need, my thing about it, wehad everything there, but we
didn't have extra, but we didn'tneed the extra.
That's why the first time I wentto Safeway, I was really
overwhelmed.
I wanted to buy a green tea.
Entire shelf was tea selection.
Still, I can go to Safeway.
I go to, I like farmer's market.
(14:20):
I like Whole Foods.
If there's anything I canhandle, I traded yours.
If there's anything safe, myhusband goes there.
It's just too much.
Costco, don't even think aboutit.
Costco's good.
There's not so many choices.
It's a little bit easier.
That's true.
It's too much.
But it's too many quantities.
(14:41):
Overwhelming for me.
Yeah.
I like the small supermarket.
We call it supermarket, but it'snot super.
But I like good and smallthings.
You know, like especiallygroceries that, you know.
Yeah.
Anyway, yeah.
So when I, oh, babysat us, usedto be babysat.
I remember when I get pregnantand we're like buying all of
(15:01):
these things.
I tell my husband, we don't needthis.
Why do you need the changing thepad?
Like it just changed.
No, we need to have everything.
That's a whole differentconflict.
Oh, yeah.
We need to buy a binky, youknow.
Yeah.
UNKNOWN (15:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (15:15):
Pacifier?
Entire shelf was binky.
Again, all the hormones.
I'm pregnant.
Like, I just, I need to live.
It's too much.
I can imagine.
Like, no wonder I have onechild.
I couldn't do anything twice.
When I was curious, how is itliving at, like, when you grew
up in Mongolia, were the schoolssimilar?
What kind of, like, did you havebreakfast, lunch, dinner kind of
(15:36):
similar with there?
What are the foods and justlike?
Again, simple, like a breakfastlunch.
More like growing up, more like,We don't snack.
The thing I learned recently, wedon't snack.
Yeah.
We have, yeah, breakfast, lunchand dinner.
Dinner always like a familygathered.
(15:57):
And then because of we haveeverything small there.
We growing up in apartment, wedidn't have like big house and
price, especially in the city.
Like if you watch the SovietUnion, all still now in Russia,
like multiple layer, like floorsof big apartments.
That's how.
And then, you know, each familyhave a refrigerator small.
(16:18):
Every time in the evening, mymom will get the fresh
groceries, make a dinner andthen dinner and eat.
And the next day, if there'sleftover groceries, we can cook
and then we'll buy it on theway.
It's like we buy small things,not that big amount.
Oh, right.
And then, but the schools, wedon't have like schools.
We have the cafeteria, but weneed to buy it.
(16:41):
There's no, like here, likeevery school has a cafeteria,
eat our food, you know.
I don't remember, we didn't haveit.
The school is, we don't havekindergarten, we have a
preschool, but first grade till10th, we have only one school.
So 10 years, you are the samepeople.
That's why we are reallycommunity-wise very close-knit.
(17:03):
Like if my mom now passed away,my high school, not my middle
school, my school friends willcome to visit me to sit with me
to grieve like that's the thingI miss it a lot you know like
good time bad times thecommunity wise it's very very
strong my mom come to visit hereshe will look for her present
(17:23):
here high school friendsdaughters newborn like it's very
very welcome and I was like Howdoes it like, in a way, it's
like, yeah, I miss the classcommunity sometimes.
I agree.
I really love that sense ofcommunity is so powerful and
(17:44):
uplifting and just kind ofsharing.
I mean, I try to create it herejust around where I live and
other things.
But so is there, are there bigfamilies in Mongolia?
It sounds like you've got onechild.
Did you have any siblings there?
Yeah, I have one brother inMongolia, one of my sisters
here.
Now, like, women, families, andagain, population is growing.
(18:09):
The grown-up, 2.3 millionpeople, the families, like,
three and four kids, not...
And, oh, there, one thing is, ifwomen have delivered your fourth
child, you get a veryprestigious medal from the
government being...
Raising, like, what's therecognition?
(18:30):
Like, it's, I think it's like a,being a, like, reward, like
medal.
It's very prestigious if youhave a child.
Your purple heart or somethinglike you.
Yeah, the similar.
Honorable.
Very honorable.
And then when you go to thegovernment building, they wear
proper, really nice outfits.
And then, you know, here is it,government really appreciate
(18:52):
your, like, You know, it's ahard work.
I appreciate your work.
It's like fun.
And then if you have sevenchild, a great mother, it's
called a great mother middleone.
And then you get more than sevenchildren get the second one.
Wow.
Mothers are really wellrespected there.
It's very interesting.
(19:14):
Yeah.
Do moms work as well?
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Grown up, all the mothers,there's no...
Homestead mothers.
Everyone works there.
Because, you know, childcare isvery secure.
Your work employment is verysustainable.
And then free education and freemedical care.
(19:35):
And you need to work.
Everything is.
So what kind of government isthat that offers all that free?
Is it socialist?
Socialist, yeah.
And then until 1991, one, duringthe Soviet Union collapsed,
during the Karabachov, and thenthe entire country has changed
(19:58):
because we have, like, eventhough we've been independent
since 1921, we are kind of,like, sister country.
Like, a lot of Soviets influencethere.
A lot of, we have, like, a lotof Russian influence there.
And then, like, Russians, we,all of the products, everything,
imports, everything from Russia,Soviet Union.
(20:18):
And Soviet Union lived...
We are on our own.
So we start to face a lot ofdifficulties.
Like your mom and dad left,you're on your own when you're a
child.
You have to learn how to survivethe entire country.
We had a very different, forfive years during this
transition period, I waspre-teen and we shortage of
(20:41):
food, shortage of medical care.
And we had like special, likesmall, like registering book
from the government,distributing food based on the
family, number of families, youknow, that's like weekly, like
essential groceries.
(21:02):
And just quite tough time thattime.
So was that because you weremore in the northern part of the
country?
Is the southern part that'scloser to China, were they more
China influenced or...?
Is it the whole country is moreRussia-influenced?
More Russia-influenced.
Interesting.
Since 1921 till 1990, if youguys learn back to how Soviet
(21:25):
Union class, all the formersocialist communist country,
Eastern European countries, howclass it, that's Mongolian was
Central Asian.
Mongolia was one of thesecountries.
That's why we had like a lot ofdifficulties to offer it.
And then, you know, it's a lot.
It's really hard working foryears.
(21:46):
Entire government changed.
Even though we didn't have onesingle gunshot, the government
changed dramatically.
Even though dramatically,there's no conflicts.
We didn't have like hungerstrike, like any gunshots, any
government from socialist tofree market, democratic system,
(22:07):
you know.
And then we really, reallysmooth transition by then.
So my childhood, I see thecommunist, socialist and
transition and then a capitalistand free market.
It's a different period happenedback in Mongolia.
Do you think they still havefree healthcare?
No, of course, you know, likethere's nothing is free there.
(22:33):
But still now, like I wastalking to my mom like a week
ago.
When you get sick, you call toyour hospital doctor and they
will come to your house.
Instead of you go to ER, thedoctors will come to you to
check your blood pressure andbasic checkups.
And then if you really need togo to hospital, you would go.
(22:57):
Otherwise, they will prescribecertain things from the
pharmacy.
There's no, again, if you needbetter health.
care, you will go to privatehospitals, you know, but you
have to pay.
Now there's a lot of changehappened when I was away, but
growing up, you know, myhealthcare was free, like Even
(23:21):
the other place, even ourapartment even belonged to this
state.
And then after transition, wehad to own this place.
My mom was like, no, this is notmine.
This is the government.
I don't need that.
Like, yeah.
So a lot of change happened bythen.
Yeah.
Wow.
(23:42):
Okay.
And then the southern half ofthe country on a map, it's much
like whiter.
Is that where the mountains are?
Yes.
Mountains are in the northernside.
In the southern side, it's agobi.
It's like a desert, like all theway, like, you know, camel and
sand, like southern.
It's like northern side, it'slike Lake Tahoe, you know, like
mountains, mountains.
(24:02):
My family's from there.
Every time we go to Mongolia, wego to southern side.
It's like Lake Tahoe.
The southern side is?
No, on the southern side.
The southern side is via people,but just desert.
Okay, so not a lot of towns inthat area?
Yeah.
There's a lot of towns,actually.
(24:23):
I'm just looking at the map, andthe very top of it looks green,
and the rest looks brown, andthen there looks like almost a
whole bunch of white towards thebottom, which may be the desert.
Yeah, yeah, deserts, yeah.
And then, again, Avery, we usedto have 18 provinces, like
States kind of.
And then now maybe it havechanged government 18.
(24:45):
And then again, some divided bythen the biggest side, the
smaller side, they all have thecenters.
That's how they're like all thehospitals and schools and then
other like small families heardthis around, you know.
And then just south of Mongolia,it looks like actually in China,
it says Inner Mongolia.
I just saw that.
(25:06):
Yeah, it's...
I think Chinese, I think theygot that part.
The other people more proud tobe Mongolians.
They think they are Mongolians,but outer Mongolians, we think
they are Chinese, even thoughthey are the ones who keep the
traditional scripts from China.
(25:28):
Talk to bottom ones.
We had the Russian influence.
We have Cyrillic.
We use the Cyrillics.
Yeah.
But they're speaking differentdialect.
And again, the Chinese, my momsaid they used to have a lot of
Mongolian culture there.
But during the ChineseRevolution, they sent a lot of
Chinese people the book, youknow, like destroyed the
(25:50):
temples, you know, like karaokeand like all of the supermarket,
a lot of change there.
Okay.
It's almost like our New York orsomething.
It's not really.
I know I was going to ask you,do you, can you understand them
when they talk?
Is it just kind of a littledifferent accent or?
A different accent.
Yeah.
I can.
Yeah.
If I go to, you know, Mongolia,even the blue, blue capital, I
(26:14):
don't know why they keep itstill there, but still they have
to cross the border,international border.
And then I can understand them,but they have like a lot of
Chinese influence there.
Yeah.
It's a Chinese, and it's acountry.
I don't know.
Yeah, the people also, are youfrom outer Mongolia, inner
Mongolia?
I couldn't understand.
There's only one Mongolia, youknow.
(26:34):
Maybe my proud ego maybe kicksin this, but there's inner
Mongolia.
So did you say blue capital?
Yeah, that's the innerMongolians, the capital called,
not capital, the city calledinner blue.
Hukhut.
Hukh means blue.
Okay.
Yeah.
UNKNOWN (26:54):
Oh.
SPEAKER_00 (26:55):
I haven't seen.
And then Ulaanbaatar, is that?
That's where I'm from.
Yeah, Ulaanbaatar, yeah.
Yeah, got it.
And then I was looking at InnerMongolia.
I don't see where it says thatI'm totally butchered.
Oh, yeah, Ulaanbaatar, yeah,yeah, yeah.
Okay, Ulaanbaatar.
Yeah, Ulaanbaatar, yeah.
UNKNOWN (27:16):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (27:16):
Got it.
It's like, I don't know if I'msaying it correctly, but the
buildings, there's like regularbuildings and then there's these
beautiful old, you know, itlooks, it's sorry to say if it's
the palaces.
UNKNOWN (27:34):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (27:34):
Oh, the temples.
Oh, the temples.
Okay.
Like this kind of building, likeit's temple.
We are Buddhist.
The Mongolians are Buddhist.
We were Buddhist until 1921, butduring like socialist country,
you're not supposed to have anyreligious, you know?
Oh, really?
Not supposed to have religion?
No religious growing up.
(27:55):
Like if you be not even allowedto, you know, again, Russians,
Soviet Union did fantastic job1921 you know mongolian we did
like woman again educationalliteracy was 90 97 and the
woman's right in education andthe health care that's a
(28:16):
fantastic job though we need anysocialist communist country
there's no religious it isthat's why during that time a
lot of temples are destroyed,unfortunately.
And then growing up, you know,there's no God, there's no
religious, but all the familiesmay be very, modest way to
(28:38):
celebrate Lunar New Year.
You know, it's a religious, wehave, you're supposed to
celebrate only New Year, youknow, not Lunar New Year.
So they were one temple in thecapital, but very, they were two
big monks there, but verymodest, you know.
If you see, if I see NorthKorean, It's very similar
(29:02):
growing up, but they're awful,you know, they cannot, but like
the structure, yeah, thestructure is very similar.
You know, we're not allowed toleave any other countries except
communist countries.
Romania, Czechoslovakia, youknow, like Soviet Union, you
know, they're okay, but we'renot allowed to even go to visit
(29:23):
any, not the, East Germany, Ithink, okay, a lot of people get
integrated in Cuba, in, formerSoviet country, Soviet Union,
and then Eastern Europeancountries.
But not for, you know, not for,America not even think about
(29:44):
that, that America is gun money,the real, like, all this, like,
propaganda, you know, likeAmericans, which still true,
they're gun and money, but, youknow.
Okay.
So was it hard for you to cometo America then?
No, by then it's changed a lot.
I had traveled a lotinternationally for my work, but
(30:06):
still getting behind, we need toget a visa.
So under my passport, I had alot of countries visa, but still
it's safe a woman invite me.
So my American friend, sheinvited me.
That's easier than...
men invite me, you know.
(30:26):
Oh, okay.
Still, it's very difficult toget a visa, American visa.
A tourist visa is still verystrict in other countries, yeah.
Oh, okay.
Oh, my goodness.
I thought before Americans goingto Mongolia, is that pretty
open?
No, very open, yeah.
And I think, I don't think youneed a visa on like 30 days.
(30:48):
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
But if you live there longer,you need to like certain other
documents.
We had someone on the podcastthat is from here, loves
Mongolia, goes in kind of the,you know, outdoors area.
areas and loves it.
Last time when I was inMongolia, I took two sets of
(31:10):
family, 10 of us went, my son'sfriend's family, 10 of us went
from San Francisco to Shanghai,Shanghai to Beijing.
And then we took atrans-Siberian train from
Beijing to Ulaanbaatar.
And then we traveled to Northand South.
And then I was really proud oflike, my country, you know, like
(31:31):
when you stop by in acountryside, the yurt, like
nothing is a couple of yurt.
When I go there, there's no evenlock.
You can come in and then familyor have tea and sit and talk.
It's really nice.
I really wanted to show themreal, you know, how what the
(31:53):
countryside is.
So they were like, big gatheringis happening.
I was like, what is it?
Let's go there.
And then we went there likefamily reunion.
And then when joined it, theyask her to come sit and then
play and then very curious aboutforeigners.
It's nice, you know, we cannot,in Texas, if I go there, I
cannot crash the family reunion,you know.
(32:15):
Going back there, they're very,you know, like family open.
Oh, I went to America years ago,this, this, and then city and
then play it like, I was like,oh, this is my people.
Everyone is welcoming.
Yeah.
That's so wonderful.
What kind of tea do youtypically have there?
We call it green tea, but it'snot the green tea we drink here.
(32:39):
I think it's a black tea with atiny bit of salt, a bit of
cream.
With salt?
Salt and cream, yeah.
Wow, it's so funny becauseusually here it's sugar and
cream.
Sugar and cream, yeah.
And they're like salt and cream.
Yeah, I think it's a black tea.
But because of color, we alwayssay, oh, we drink green tea.
It's a green tea.
(33:00):
But now when I think of it, it'snot a green tea.
I think we get it a lot fromUzbekistan or Tajikistan.
They have a very big tea.
I think it's more from there,yeah.
Oh, my goodness.
Wow.
And then what about jobs?
I'm just curious.
I find people jobs.
So I was curious, is it all...
Because it looks likeUlaanbaatar is a city.
(33:24):
So people, I'm sure there'sbanks and...
Oh, yeah, yeah.
It's like any other big cities.
Again, a lot of young generationstruggles finding a job.
You don't see any homelesspeople in the city.
But still, like any othercountries, we are having a lot
of employment issues there.
UNKNOWN (33:44):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (33:45):
Yeah, it's very difficult when I go back home,
how people are living, becausepeople's appearance is really,
well, good there.
But actually, what, you know,what's the behind that, what
they struggle with, you know,unless your family relatives
are, you know, really struggles,we would know.
But for the appearance, youcan't really, it's hard to know
(34:08):
them.
If someone are not doing wellfinancially or like, you know,
it's hard because the people,look good there yeah great yeah
yeah it's like uh people reallyput together families young
people like like dress well andlooking happy but even though
they still struggle behind thatlike financial and employment
(34:31):
and everything it's yeah it'slike i have i like to when i go
back i like to observe thepeople you know it's yeah that's
so interesting with like Youknow, because you said, Vern,
like, you know, your appearanceis really important.
You look good, but you alsodon't buy a lot of things, do
you?
So do people, like, have apretty small wardrobe?
And they just, it's clean andpressed, but it might not be for
(34:53):
you.
We iron things all the time.
Iron bed sheets, iron shirt, youknow?
You're having bed sheets, huh?
Oh, yeah, bed sheets.
Growing up, all those air, andwe're like, yeah, like, we don't
have, like, big wardrobe, youknow, like, every, still now,
like, three, four bedrooms, andthen maybe five family, five,
(35:16):
six families, but, you know, wehave to share everything, you
know, share the space, share thewardrobe.
Still, you would know, you wouldknow, because we don't buy
things that a lot.
That's also really, still, Ihave some difficulties to adjust
here.
Oh, yeah.
I have difficulties with it.
Especially Christmas time, youknow, like, how many presents
(35:39):
one person can open?
Like, I always have this,like...
difference with my husband.
I had to face it.
You know, we have one child andthen, okay, this is enough.
Now, I think it's just a few.
Maybe we need, no.
Yeah, you can watch the, there'sa documentary called Buy Now
that'll stop you from shoppingever again.
(36:00):
Oh, really?
Buy?
Buy Now.
I don't know if it's on Netflixor Apple or, but yeah, Buy Now.
Now.
Yeah.
I'm going to watch it because Ifeel this is a big thing for me
too.
And I, especially when the kidsare little, They just, I want
that.
I want that.
Please buy.
You know, you get a lot of that.
And you're like, yeah.
Yeah.
Well, yeah, that's how you grabit.
(36:22):
We didn't know.
Yeah.
I'm very careful about qualityand quantity.
And even though I can buyeverything for myself, but my
husband thinks, oh, you don't.
Yeah.
Less is more.
I actually remember talking tosomeone in Europe.
I can't remember.
And they said, when people go,like, was the men go to work,
(36:43):
they wear the same outfit allweek.
It's almost like a uniform.
And I was just thinking aboutthat the other day.
I'm like, men's suits probablywere really, uniform men would
probably have like two suits, aclean one and a dirty one, you
know?
But now men have like, you know,people that wear suits every day
probably have like 15, 20 suitsand then different ties.
You know, probably the tie waslike originally the only
(37:05):
difference.
Like you'd wear the exact samesuit every day and just change
your tie to mix it up.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Interesting.
So just curious, I know we'recoming up on Christmas.
So what does Christmas look likein Mongolia?
Oh, we don't celebrateChristmas.
Okay.
But we celebrate New Year.
(37:25):
Oh, okay.
Again, I don't think Russianscelebrate Christmas.
Again, we didn't have anyreligious.
There's no religious.
We can celebrate New Year.
Oh, New Year.
I miss New Year.
Every...
Companies have paid big, bigparties.
People warm and dress nice.
And like everything is like, Ireally miss that.
(37:48):
It's like all parties are realparties are there, you know,
like.
Nice.
Yeah.
So that's a new year like ourcalendar New Year's, not like
the Chinese New Year.
Yeah.
31st, December 30th, even thoughit's a family holiday.
Like every family has aChristmas tree and then cake and
flowers and champagne.
(38:08):
I don't know why cake, but likewe, my parents not let us to
sleep until midnight because wecelebrated like happy New Year,
you know, like, you know, likeit's very family oriented
holiday New Year.
It's like we have to, like, it'slike, it's like Thanksgiving,
you know, like we have to sit,eat together kind of things.
Oh my gosh.
(38:29):
So they, you do get to stay uptill midnight or you don't get
to stay up till midnight?
Oh, it's like, I have to, haveto, have to stand up.
We have to receive the New Yearlike that.
I don't know why even for smallkids can't go to bed.
Totally.
I remember going to MidnightMass and I was like, oh, this is
so hard with them.
Is Midnight Mass have to be inmidnight too?
(38:52):
Well, I guess.
I felt like it was 11 o'clock orsomething, 10, 11.
Yeah, I think that was typicalon Christmas.
So they'd always have like amidnight mass.
So then like not for New Year's,but on Christmas Day.
But then a lot of people, thekids couldn't stay up.
So then the churches startedhaving 11 o'clock and a 10
o'clock and an 8 o'clock.
Now I think it's like 5 o'clock.
(39:13):
Yeah, exactly.
So did you say they have aChristmas tree at New Year's?
Yeah, we call it New Year's tea.
We didn't call it Christmastree.
People start to put it nearChristmas tree around 26th,
27th.
Way after Christmas.
(39:34):
Oh my God.
And so, and is it a, is it apine tree?
Is it the same?
Oh, it's a plastic, plastic one.
Yeah.
It's freaking cold out there.
There's no, yeah.
Yeah.
And we even have a Santa, butSanta, we don't call it Santa,
winter camper.
And we have like, I think it'sall, if you see the, We have a
traditional outfit at Santa, butwe big cave and big white beard
(40:00):
and then certain gloves.
And then Santa come visitfamilies, give the presents to
small kids.
Uh-huh.
And it looks like Mongolia Santalooks like he belongs in the
North Pole with a very fluffybig hat.
Yes.
A beard and a big coat.
(40:20):
He looks very...
He looks, it's interesting, thelook, you know, he looks like,
you said Native American, butMongolian, right?
Oh, yeah.
Like, yeah.
And he's got, it looks likehe's, well, the picture I'm
seeing, he looks like he'sriding a horse, but it has
(40:42):
antlers.
And then he has a big, backpacksack.
It almost looks like one ofthose fabric things that you
wear babies with, but a hugebigger one that's honestly
filled with things.
It looks like a wizard.
It's very mixed with Santa'straditional old man.
(41:08):
That's so funny.
So interesting.
During Komi's time, I think wecreated it, yeah.
Wow.
Oh my gosh.
So would you get presents forthe New Year's?
Yeah, New Year's, the presentsare all like mandarin,
tangerine, and candies.
We didn't get any actualpresents by then.
(41:31):
It's just the candies andtangerines and fruit in winter,
like growing up.
Yeah, we didn't.
But in the Lunar New Year, Wehave a calendar, same as
Tibetans, different than Chinesefor some reason, always similar,
like two or three days eitherbehind or then front.
(41:53):
It's like it's never been linedin the same day.
It's always different day, theChinese Lunar New Year.
That one is a big celebration.
We have to have constantvisitors, relatives visit you
regularly.
If you have elders in yourfamily, the relatives visit you,
and then we eat dumplings andsit, talk.
(42:14):
And then the family, the elderswill give a present.
It's like a week-long holiday.
And it's nice.
Once in a year, you will see allof the relatives, two become
three, three become four, all ofthem bringing kids, and then sit
and talk and eat dumplings.
Oh, nice.
UNKNOWN (42:35):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (42:35):
So I definitely have some of our rapid fire
questions.
I sent that to you so long ago.
I don't know if you remember,but they're pretty easy.
Yeah, pretty easy.
Okay.
So other than Christmas or NewYear's, is there another popular
holiday tradition?
Oh, yeah.
In July 11th, it's IndependenceDay.
(42:56):
I think it's a day we kick theChinese out.
I think it's like, that's areally big holiday.
We call it free men's, we callit nadam.
It's like free, it's a horseracing and wrestling and then
archery.
SPEAKER_01 (43:13):
That's
SPEAKER_00 (43:14):
a big celebration.
That's the most popular touristseason by that.
And every other place iscelebrating a week-long
celebration, horse racing andwrestling and then archery.
It's summertime and peoplerelax, watch the horse racing
and wrestling is a big sport andthen archery too.
(43:36):
And it's actually, it looks likeit goes for four days?
Yeah, maybe less.
like officially four days, butlike you're not going to do any
business that week, wholeentire, even for a month.
Yeah.
It's like everyone is like,everything is like tomorrow,
tomorrow, tomorrow, like nobusiness.
Gotta enjoy summer, right?
Yeah.
(43:56):
Because our summer is veryshort.
We have to celebrate at leastone week.
Yeah, exactly.
It looks like, does the datechange?
Or you said July 11th.
Yeah, it's almost July 11th,yeah.
It says, N-A-A-D-A-M fromFriday, July 11th to Tuesday,
July 15th.
Yeah.
(44:17):
Oh, and it says Mongolia, InnerMongolia and Tuva is where it
is.
Oh, this is Tuva.
Yeah.
I think, I don't know.
Yeah.
Is that another country?
Yeah.
I think Tuva is, I think thatwas a part of the Soviet Union.
And I think maybe it's a countrynow, like with the center, like
(44:38):
central, I think it's a centralAsia.
Yeah.
Oh, wow.
It looks, this is reallyinteresting.
And I see, what is this?
It looks like girls with a wholebunch of, like a sash with a
whole bunch of patches all theway down.
Oh, like horse riders?
Well, I actually clicked on it.
Oh, wow.
(44:58):
They have a, yes.
There's a whole bunch of horsesand they're just running across
a field.
Yeah.
Is that, and everyone's gothelmets and A name, or is it a
horse race?
Oh, horse race, yeah.
Yeah, I think nowadays wearinghelmets, but, you know, growing
(45:21):
up, no one is wearing helmets.
And, you know, like horse ridingis like, you can learn, you
know, when you're free, youknow, three years old, you will
see three or four years old,you're riding horse and cattle,
like it's a very normal holiday,yeah.
Yeah, I see horses.
You said archery, which I see aswell.
I see traditional outfits,beautiful outfits with a very
(45:46):
long.
Yeah, that's for men.
Yeah, it's very colorful.
And I thought I heard you saywrestling, and I actually see
some men wrestling.
Yeah, only men wrestle, notwomen doing that.
Yeah.
Very interesting outfit, by theway.
Yeah.
Bikini.
(46:07):
You see that?
Bikini bottoms with very, very,very big, like, I'll call them
cowboy boots, but very bigboots, like boots.
Yeah.
And then a very small halter topthat looks like it's tied on the
sides here.
Yeah.
Very different.
Very different.
Yeah.
Like, wow.
(46:27):
So, yeah.
Horse race, wrestling, archery,knuckle bone shooting.
Oh, yeah.
Knucklebone shooting.
I think that's not the official,like, free games, but that's
the, like, you can be a part of.
I think it's, I don't reallyhave family with it.
I think they're, like, how faryou can, what do you call this
(46:48):
one?
Like, how far the knuckleballplayers go.
It's wherever it gets thefarther away.
I think, yeah.
Yeah, it says anklebone andshooting and must be
knucklebone, something likethat.
That's, yeah.
definitely different.
Yeah, a lot of foreigners go tothat nadam during tourist
(47:08):
season, yeah.
Yeah, so they go in July tocheck out.
July, yeah, it's very crowded.
Everything is really busy atthat time, like busy, like
holiday busy, yeah.
Is that, are there otherholidays that someone, or if
you're wanting to travel toMongolia and check it out, that
would be An event too.
Yeah, event.
Yeah.
But again, that will be likebusiness time.
(47:30):
But even after NADM, maybe someof the countryside, some of
them, they have like mini NADM,you know, to attract the
tourists.
Otherwise, that's like a main.
We don't have many likecelebration holidays.
Only Lunar New Year and thenNADM.
Like only two, yeah.
Yeah.
That's interesting.
I love it.
(47:51):
Yeah.
And so what is your favoritemeal when you go back?
My favorite, oh, it's like, kindof like perushki, but it's like,
I think we get it from Russia.
Like, it's like a fried, it'scalled khoshur.
It's like a dumpling, but flat.
It's a fried, fried dumpling.
(48:11):
What's inside?
Just, you know.
Food, we have like most boringfood in the world.
We have, because it's hard togrow vegetables there because of
season, you know.
Right, I remember it's like alot of beets, right?
Yeah, it's like beef in salt,herbs, and then flour, you know.
Oh, okay.
That sounds really good.
And what's a typical breakfast?
(48:34):
When I breakfast, we eat a lotof like eggs and toast.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
Pretty similar.
Yeah.
UNKNOWN (48:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (48:41):
And what is the money call and how do you, like,
how would a tourist handle themoney there when they go?
I think Tukruk.
Okay.
Yeah.
And I think they bring the cash.
Okay.
Again, I wouldn't be surprisedif when someone is there, oh,
you can pay through Apple, youknow, like there's certain
things the way I had my phonewhen I was two years old.
(49:06):
In 2000, I had my cell phone.
My even husband was like, oh myGod, you have cell phone.
Like, yeah, everyone has a cellphone.
But here, the cell phone cameway later.
Like, yeah, it's like somecertain things we have very,
like we get it way beforeAmerica, like technology, but a
lot of things like way after,yeah.
(49:27):
We had like, I wouldn't besurprised all the money
transactions goes through thephone, you know, some certain
apps.
Yeah.
All righty.
And then one question we ask is,we just ask every time, the
closest place to surf, I wouldsay probably in the lake.
Is there like anything such aslike wake surfing or wake
boarding out there or waterskiing?
(49:48):
No.
We're afraid of water.
And we're not even growing up,water is very precious thing.
If you go see any lake inspring, it's We just, we cannot
even put our feet on therebecause it's very spirit things.
We only, we can't even go, can'teven think about peeing there.
(50:08):
It's very sacred things.
We should just go like tap thewater, put in the head first,
you know, it's like, we can'teven think.
I don't know nowadays, but likegrowing up, we can't even put
your things, anything, even yourfeet, because it's nature of
sacred things.
Oh, that's so interesting.
Yeah.
And it's probably so cold too,right?
(50:29):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's cold.
Yeah.
Are you, well, you said youdrink cheese.
Most people drink coffee or teaor both?
Tea.
Nowadays, maybe in the capital,but we don't have Starbucks, but
there's a lot of coffee shops.
People drink coffee.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, that's it for my rapidfire questions.
(50:51):
Yeah.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Of course.
Thank you for having me.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We loved it.
It gave me such a differentvisual and feeling about
Mongolia.
And honestly, I do remember...
the first person, it was veryinteresting.
And I thought, okay, well, youknow, I don't know if that would
(51:11):
be for me.
But after talking with you, I'mlike, oh my goodness, this
sounds really a treat to go.
I would love to go.
Oh, yeah.
Oh my God.
If you go, let me know.
But it's very interesting.
You'll see how people lived 300years ago.
It's still the same.
SPEAKER_01 (51:30):
Nothing
SPEAKER_00 (51:31):
has changed.
But it's in a good way howeverything changed.
you you cannot waste but stillpeople are going this way you
know like and then again in thecapital you will see people you
know like any other big citieswomen will look at time bank you
know the things that some someof them is too materialistic for
(51:52):
me but it's it's very it's oneway you can see two buff sides
in one place yeah it almostseems like everyone needs to go
there because Or watch the BuyNow video.
Oh, yeah.
I would love that.
Yeah.
Especially before Christmas.
(52:13):
Yes.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Wonderful.
Well, thank you so much.
Of course.
Thank you.
Absolutely.
Thank you, Grace.
Nice to meet you.
Bye-bye.
Have a good weekend.
Bye.
Happy holidays.
Happy holidays.
Bye.
Thanks for listening.
If you enjoyed the podcast, canyou please take a second and do
(52:33):
a quick follow of the show andrate us in your podcast app?
And if you have a minute, wewould really appreciate a
review.
Following and rating is the bestway to support us.
If you're on Instagram, let'sconnect.
We're at where next podcast.
Thanks again.
UNKNOWN (53:00):
Thank you.
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