August 2, 2025 • 32 mins
Balancing the needs of aging parents while supporting young adult children is no easy task—and for millions in the sandwich generation, it’s a daily reality.
In this episode of the Where Parents Talk podcast, host Lianne Castelino dives into the realities of the sandwich generation—those balancing the care of aging parents while supporting young adult children with guest Dr. Shirley Davis.
A seasoned HR leader, global workforce expert, best selling author, podcaster, entrepreneur, CEO of SDS Global Enterprises and mom of one, Davis is also part of the sandwich generation. She shares hard-earned wisdom on navigating hormonal shifts, protecting emotional well-being, and mastering the subtleties of communication.
The conversation explores how technology, device dependency, and social media can blur boundaries, challenge consent, and strain family dynamics. Dr. Davis also offers practical strategies for fostering independence, addressing bullying, and creating healthy, respectful relationships across generations.
Takeaways:
- Navigating the complexities of the sandwich generation requires open communication and understanding among family members.
- Emotional health is paramount for caregivers; self-care practices like exercise and relaxation ensure well-being amidst responsibilities.
- Balancing device usage and social media can empower teens to communicate effectively while maintaining their independence and emotional health.
- Setting boundaries is crucial for caregivers, as it fosters a respectful dynamic with aging parents while allowing for personal space and discipline.
This podcast is for parents, guardians, teachers and caregivers to learn proven strategies and trusted tips on raising kids, teens and young adults based on science, evidenced and lived experience.
You’ll learn the latest on topics like managing bullying, consent, fostering healthy relationships, and the interconnectedness of mental, emotional and physical health.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- SDS Global Enterprises
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
FOREIGN.
Welcome to the Where ParentsTalk podcast. We help grow better
parents through science,evidence and the lived experience
of other parents. Learn how tobetter navigate the mental and physical
health of your tween teen oryoung adult through proven expert
(00:21):
advice. Here's your host,Lianne Castelino. Foreign.
Welcome to Where Parents Talk.My name is Lianne Castelino. Our
guest today is a globalworkforce expert and a best selling
author. Dr. Shirley Davis isalso a former HR executive, a podcaster
(00:42):
and an entrepreneur. She isthe CEO of SDS Global Enterprises
and has more than 30 years ofexperience advising organizations
on leadership and workplaceculture. Dr. Davis has her own foundation.
She's also a mother of one anda member of the sandwich Generation.
She joins us today from Tampa,Florida. Great to be with you. Thanks
(01:05):
for joining us.
Thank you. It's wonderful tobe here. I appreciate the conversation.
Well, and we're talking aboutthe sandwich generation, and you
describe yourself as beingproud to be a member of the sandwich
generation.
Why is that? Well, part of itis because I have the pleasure and
I would say the responsibilityof taking care of my own parents
(01:28):
who are in their 80s now.Dad's 82 and mom is 81. I'm really
proud to be a part of thatgeneration, to be able to take care
of them in a way that allowsthem to live their, as I say, their
next to last chapters, theirbest life. And I'm glad to be able
to give that to them. I amalso one of the sandwich generations
that's still working. And alsomy daughter is, you know, in her
(01:52):
30s and helping her navigatethrough careers and, you know, relationships
and life. So it's a, it's awonderful opportunity to be able
to balance all of that.
And let's talk about thatbalance because just that description
would give a lot of parents,you know, a reason to feel sort of
faint and wonder, how does shedo all this? Because many parents
(02:13):
find themselves in the sameboat as you. So how do you go about
striving to find that balance?
Gosh, you know, it's a lot.It's never going to be even like
this, right? Where everythingis all, you know, on the same level.
Some of it, sometimes it'sjust prioritization. Sometimes I
have to delegate, I have toask for help. I have to say, look,
(02:34):
I need a timeout. I have to doa lot of my own work to make sure
that I'm not overburdeningmyself. I've learned how to say no.
I work with my parents to setboundaries. And so it's all of those
things. Right. Asking for helpand making sure that you practice
some self care and me time andprioritizations. You can't do everything.
(02:57):
And so don't feel guilty whenyou can't. It's all of those things
together and being able tomanage all of those expectations.
Absolutely. And now, assomebody who is involved in so many
different things over andabove and beside caring for your
parents and your daughter,what was the hardest part for you
(03:17):
to. What kind of adjustmentwas the hardest for you to make to
accommodate all that balancethat you're trying to achieve?
Yeah, you know what thehardest is, and most people can probably
relate, is trying to get yourparents to give up the life that
they've known. My parents havebeen in the Same House for 40 years.
It was my dad who alwaysprided himself on taking care of
(03:41):
us and being the head of thehousehold and the man of the house
and. And now I'm asking him touproot everything, sell everything,
or most everything. There aresome things I said you can bring
those things with you, but alot of things I had to. That can't
transfer to Tampa from. FromWashington D.C. which is where they're
from. So the hardest part wasjust making sure I convinced dad,
(04:01):
not necessarily mom, because Ihad her at hello. It was dad, the
man of the house, who reallywanted to hold on to, you know, what
he knew, hold on to comfortand familiarity and hold on to his
sense of manliness. And I hadto really work with him and help
him to see that this wasn't aloss, that this was a gain, this
(04:22):
was a blessing that you'll beable to sell you your home and not
have to try and take care somuch as you get older. And if you
get sick and aren't able to doit, you'll already be with me and
I can be able to help, youknow, help take care of you in those
ways. So I think that was whatwas able to really convince him.
Any particular obstacles thatyou personally had to overcome as
(04:46):
this high achiever with allthis stuff going on when it comes
to managing this?
A lot of them, you know,actually I did put my love life on
hold. I'm single. And so, youknow, the dating had to kind of subside
a little bit because I knewthat that was my priority is helping
them to sell their home,helping them to pack up, helping
(05:06):
them to move, and then oncethey got here, helping them to get
acclimated to a whole newenvironment, new doctors and, you
know, new medical proceduresand Just navigating, just geographically.
For me personally, it's verytime consuming and so I had to, when
I knew that they were coming.I recommend that people have some
(05:28):
time and space so that they dobe able to commit to. They can be
able to commit to. Helpingthem to navigate being available,
helping them to set upeverything, making phone calls, going
with them to doctor visits,helping them to transfer their driver's
license and their, you know,their tags. It's those little things
that we don't always thinkabout that were helpful. So for me,
(05:51):
it was just balancing thetypes of relationships that I had.
Dating got put on hold for alittle bit, make sure that they're
good. The other thing too,it's just being open to their ideas
and giving them flexibility.And I had to give them a lot of ways
that they could do things. Sogive them options, not make them
(06:12):
feel like now they gotta buyby all your rules. But let's set
rules together. Let's havefamily meetings, let's talk about
what's working, what's notworking, you know, consistently,
not when you allow things tokind of get a little bit more stressful,
but let's minimize stress andlet's have those kinds of conversations
early on. So it's making thosekinds of adjustments. And I would
(06:33):
also say the last thing, lotsof patience. Yeah. Being patient
and understanding. And Ilooked at it the opposite way versus
saying this is a burden. Ilooked at it as a blessing and I
said, you know what? Myparents are not going to be with
me always and they may not bemobile always. And so I have the
opportunity to enjoy them nowand to help the rest of their lives
(06:54):
be the best of their lives.And that mindset from a growth perspective
really helped me to. To bemore patient and understanding.
Certainly you have amassed alot of lived experience when we talk
about the sandwich generation.But curious as to what inspired your
deeper interest in this area.To the extent that you talk about
it and you've got a podcastthat deals with it. What fuel that?
(07:19):
A couple of things. I'm ahuman resources veteran. I've been
in HR for over 30 years, soI've been deal with it a lot. Even
in workplaces. It's a lot ofwhat my clients have been requesting
over the last seven to 10years as we are now dealing with
five generations. And thesixth generation Alphas came in last
year. Right. They're theyoungest of us. But because companies
(07:41):
are dealing with a lot of thedemographic shifts and the complexities,
one of the most common callsthat I was getting was, can you come
in and train us on how to leadmore effectively across generations?
So I knew it was a challengeinside of companies, I was consulting
with them on strategies forhow to really shift their archaic
and sometimes their outdatedpolicies to be accommodating now
(08:05):
of a much younger generation.When you look at the statistics,
it's really startling, right?Because recent research tells us
that nearly 30% of the U.S.adults are actually in that sandwich
generation. But about 67% ofthem, 67 million, I should say, of
(08:25):
them are actually dealing withthis and trying to navigate. Navigate
work as well as home lifebalance. So it's an issue at work
and at home. And because I'min hr, it became a real thing. It
also became a real thing to mewhen the pandemic happened in 2020
and I was able to bring myparents to Tampa to live with me,
(08:46):
or what we call snowbirding,right? You come and live from November
to March, get them out of thecold weather and allow them to be
here where it's warmerclimates. And we got a chance to
live together. And I had livedwith my parents for over 40 years,
so we were reintrod,introducing ourselves to each other
because I left home at 17 andnever went back. Right. I went to
college and then started mylife. And so I got to understand
(09:10):
and reintroduce myself to myparents as an adult grown woman,
a career woman and a mom. Andthey introduced themselves to me
again as older parents becauseI knew them when I left in their
30s and 40s. Right. So verydifferent. And I got a chance to
see that my parents had sloweddown. I got a chance to see that
(09:31):
the things I used to ask themto do, they couldn't do them as fast
or as much anymore. Somethings that my dad couldn't do anymore,
like going way up on the topof the roof of the house. Right.
So I started to see thosethings and that's what precipitated
the interest. And I'm like,wow, this is millions of us that
are dealing with this,companies are dealing with it. So
(09:51):
let us take it on, head on andprovide some strategies and real
world, raw experiences.
So building on that point alittle bit more, are there any particular
stressors that you're seeingaffecting today's sandwich generation?
You talk about your parentsbeing in their 80s, your daughter
being in her 30s, but thereare all different kinds of sandwich
(10:13):
generation demographics. Butare there any other stressors in
particular that people todayare facing who are part of this group?
Yeah, I think the biggeststressor that I hear a lot from focus
groups that we do, and evenwhen we do worker engagement surveys,
they want to be able tobalance it all. They want more flexible
(10:34):
work. So that's the biggestthing, right, is they want flexible
work. And now we're in an agewhere at one point everybody was
kind of relegated to workingfrom home. 2020 through 2023, really,
most people were still workingfrom home or in a hybrid work environment.
And now companies arereturning to the office, many of
them to a very differentdegree. Right. Some two and three
(10:55):
days a week, some one day aweek. But at some point, there's
that transition that'shappening again. So flexibility is
the number one stressor. Thosewho feel like they don't have enough
flexibility at work to be ableto handle it all, and then those
who are being asked to comeback into the workplace when they
sort of had gotten into aroutine of how they could work from
(11:16):
home and take care of theirparents, some of them are having
to deal with elder care. Andwhether that's putting them in facilities
or senior assistants, assistedliving, or having home health care
providers come in, those arestressors, in addition to having
younger children at home thatalso have responsibility. So there's
a lot of that back and forth.That's the biggest stressor.
(11:39):
So what would you say then tosomebody who finds themselves in
one of those examples? Let'ssay they've been hybrid or remote
since the pandemic and now arebeing asked to go back into the office
multiple times a week whenthey have figured out how to be flexible,
being, you know, at home formost of it, maybe there's not a choice
in their lives and they'remanaging again, elderly parents,
(12:01):
young kids, whatever thesituation is for them. What would
you say to them?
It's a couple of things. Soone is I always ask them to, you
know, make sure that you'rechecking in with your parents, seeing
how they're doing, what theirneeds are, so that you sort of a
needs assessment even of yourparents and of your children. What
are the needs? And then I'mbig on making sure that you build
(12:23):
a network of support. Youcannot do it alone. You and your
husband, or you and yourspouse and partner can't do it alone.
So be willing to ask for help.Look at what are some of the resources
that are available both athome in your community, but also
in your organization. Becausesometimes people don't realize that
the employee assistanceprograms are available to them. They're
(12:44):
not always aware of some ofthe benefits that their companies
provide, whether it is eldercare benefits or if it is, maybe
some kinds of discounts orpartnerships that they have. So that's
very important. I think theother part of it is boundaries, is
making sure that you setboundaries with your parents, with
your children, and set someclear expectations. Like I told my
(13:04):
daughter, I was a single momwhen I was growing up, and I said,
look, I won't be able to makeevery single event that you're involved
in, but let me know what'sreally most important to you. And
those are the things that Iwill prioritize. And so she'll tell
you that there is rarelyanything that I missed. I think that's
important. And then I thinkthe other part around the boundaries
is, and the expectations isstart to delegate and make sure everybody
(13:27):
is pitching in, that everybodyis carrying their load to the extent
that they can so that youdon't feel like the burden is all
on you or your spouse. Soeveryone has to be a part of living
together and making it work.Well, all of those things I think
are very, very key andcritical. And the other last one
I'll say is just don't overcommit to things that, you know you
(13:47):
can't do. If it's notsomething that's in your wheelhouse
of expertise or you just don'tlike it, or it wears you out and
stresses you out, be willingto delegate and ask for help that
way too.
As you know, as a mom, guiltis a formidable force and especially
as a caregiver. And now you'vegot, you know, these two sort of
(14:08):
ends pulling at you. Are thereunique differences with respect to
culture, gender, age groupsthat you found with your experience
when it comes to caregivingand the load and how to manage it?
Obviously, if you are helping,you know, taking care of your elderly
parents, there's a hugegenerational gap in the ways that
(14:31):
they were raised and thevalues that they hold versus the
younger generation, yourchildren that may be in their 20s
and 30s. And so I think it'simportant to continue to talk about
those things, but also to meetin the middle. You won't be able
to do everything for yourparents at the way that they want
it. Like, a lot of my time isspent even with my parents just trying
(14:52):
to navigate technology. Sowhat I've been able to do is sometimes
I'll be like, I delegate it tomy daughter, say, look, can you help
your grandparents with all thetechnology stuff, the TVs that they
watch, the cell phones andstuff that they have Those are important,
but then it's also value.Sometimes they don't understand each
other. I've got a differentvalue system as a Gen Xer than my
(15:12):
daughter, who's a millenniumthan my parents, who are traditionalists,
right in their 80s. So we allhave to talk and we all have to come
together to an agreement asyou know what, that's your era. But
this is her error. Whetherit's things that require like for
example, shifting mindsetsaround dinner time, like my daughter
is not necessarily one thatevery Sunday you're going to have
(15:35):
dinner. That's the way we grewup. That's the way my parents grew
up. But the youngergeneration, right, they want to sit
and watch TV and eat at thesame time or they may not be at the
table. If they're going to beat the table, they're going to have
their, their technology withthem, making those kinds of tweaks
and adjustments and talkingabout them. So you won't be able
to swing everybody to theextreme pendulum. So find a way to
(15:57):
meet in the middle. So Sundayis that day where we come together
and we have dinner and nophone zone, right? Just come and
let's talk and let's, youknow, enjoy each other. But that's
not something you're going todo every day, those little tweaks
like that.
Dr. Davis, what would you sayare some of the common or most common
emotional challenges thatpeople within the sandwich generation
(16:18):
may experience and what theyshould, should they should be mindful
of, really?
Yeah, I think you hit on oneof them, right. Is guilt that I may
not be able to do all thethings. I think the other common
emotion too is just thestressor of the financial pressure
that that might also require.I mean, I know for me, you know,
when my parents moved in, I'mnot asking them to, to pay, you know,
(16:40):
anything, but, you know, tocontribute if they want to, to help
with food. But your bills aregoing to go up, right? Because utilities,
the lights are on more, wateris being used more. And so I found
that to be a somewh a stressorbecause it increased. So that's something
to think about. The otherstressor is sometimes just seeing
your parents getting old infront of you older, I should say.
(17:03):
And some of the illnesses thatthey may experiences and the challenges,
sometimes the emotional stresscan also be, is that they want you
to take them places. So youbecome the Uber driver as well. And
you're helping, you got totake care of them and make sure they're
good. So it's those kinds ofthings. So it ranges everything from
guilt to, for me, what I thinkon the other side of it is complete
(17:26):
excitement, joy and peace thatI can spend as much quality time
with them while they're here.Same thing with my kids. They're
spending quality time withtheir grandparents as well. And I
just feel like whenever thattime does come and they transition
to their next life, that Iwill not have any regrets. So I'm
(17:48):
grateful to be able to havethat opportunity now to spend that.
But it's also that toll can bea lot of may feel a sense of. What's
the word? Overwhelmed. Becausethey know that that day is coming.
And, you know, for me in their80s, I hope they live to be over
100. Right. But that may notalways be the reality.
(18:10):
Yeah, I. I'm curious, was thatalways your mindset, in terms of
looking at it as, you know, ablessing that you have this time
to spend? Because it seems tome that if entering this kind of
phase of life as a sandwichgeneration individual, if you have
that mindset, you're alreadyahead of the game. Did you start
(18:30):
with that?
I didn't. Let me tell you why.Most of my career of 30 years was
in corporate America. Itraveled 60 to 70% of the time. I
really didn't think about it.I didn't until 2020 when everything
shut down and I asked myparents to come here so I could take
care of them and make surethat all the younger grandkids weren't
(18:50):
running in and out becausethey thought they were indispensable.
When Covid was going around,it's like, you guys, look. There
was no vaccine at the time,nothing. And I wanted to make sure
that they were good. And Iknew that I lived alone and I knew
I was going to make sure thatthey were cared for. I didn't see
any of that until I got tolive with them again. And I began
to see how much I seen themchange and slow down and not do as
(19:14):
much. And they were aging, andit was those three years of snowbirding
with them during those fourmonths that I started saying, wow,
we've lived together for thesefour months. We've been okay. We
haven't had any real issuesand any disconnects. We've been able
to talk things out, get along.And I started to see then the importance
(19:34):
of not being so busy that youforget about your parents or being
so busy that you don't see theshifts and the changes that they're
going through as well. That'swhen it started, it's like, wow,
I've had the chance now tospend really good quality time with
them. As they're getting oldernow to their 80s, I want to spend
more time with them. And asI've gotten more successful in my
(19:56):
career, I can afford to nowtake care of them as well. So that's
when it started, was just afew years ago. So, no, I hadn't always
had that. I've been a greatdaughter. I've always loved my parents
and we've always been reallyclose, but I wasn't always thinking
of, I'm going to take care ofthem because I've got three brothers,
right? And so we just hadn'ttalked about it, but that's when
(20:17):
it came up.
You've talked about boundariesa few times. Certainly so critical
to the success or lack of whenyou're talking about the sandwich
generation. What would you saythat healthy boundaries should involve?
What does that look like?
So a couple of things. I hadto remind my parents that while I'm
(20:38):
still the daughter, I'm a verygrown adult woman who has her own
mind and who can take care ofherself. So some of the boundaries
was, I'm not gonna have acurfew, right? Just because you living
with me now, if I'm not homeby 10 or 11 o', clock, I'll just
let you know, I'm not gonna bethere. But you don't need to ask
me where I'm at, what am Idoing when coming home. So boundaries
(21:01):
around still maintain yourlevel of independence and your lifestyle
also boundaries around, right?Who's going to take care of certain
responsibilities around thehouse? So for my dad, because he's
still mobile, I'm grateful forthat. He wants to be able to take
care of the lawn and if thingsare irrepared, he wants me to check
(21:21):
with him first. Before callinga repairman, I was always used to
calling contractors in. It'sthose boundaries of giving them some
freedom, them some liberties,but finding out what they can't do.
So when my dad can't docertain things, what we've agreed
to is I'll call the contractorand make him the foreman, so he's
the one that deals with them,he lets them in. Even with mom, some
(21:44):
of the boundaries are, I can'talways take you to every doctor's
appointment, but I'll go tothe ones that are key and critical
so that I can ask questionsand be there. It may be, for example,
my. It's funny with. With mydad, he's you know, I'm such a daddy's
girl and he's so protective.But my dating life, right. We had
to set some boundaries aroundthat is, I'm not going to introduce
(22:06):
you to everybody, you know,that I'm going out with, but when
it's time, I'll bring themhome. But you don't need to ask questions
until I'm ready. So thosekinds of things, when I'm here working
from home and they're here, wehave to set boundaries around noise
levels and time frames of whenthey're going to be walking through,
past the camera in the office.Office. Right. Those things and the
(22:27):
noise level. So certain thingslike that. It's so many of those
kinds of boundaries that wejust had to, to. To think about and
work through.
Many of the parents who willbe watching and listening to this
interview will have parentstoo. We are parents will have kids
who are in their teens andthe, you know, the always adventurous
(22:47):
adolescent years in manyhouseholds at the same time, time
as managing their older parentor their parents as well in an older
age group. What would you sayto that group of parents? Because
it is so demanding when youthink about the Internet and social
media and relationships and,you know, isolation and all these
things that are currentlyaffecting young people today.
(23:11):
Yeah, there's so many shiftsand changes and their challenges
a little bit different than myparents challenges or either ours
right in the middle. And so Ithink it's very important to be very
observant with the kids, knowwho their friends are, know what
they're looking at online. Idid the same thing with my daughter,
who's a millennial now, was Iset boundaries about her phone time.
(23:32):
I do have access to her phoneitself, to her records, how much
time she's spending on it.There's a certain time where curfew
is in place after 11 o',clock, you know, lights are out and,
you know, put cell phones andstuff down. So it's those kinds.
I'm grateful now that theschool system has kind of set some
of those kind of ground rulesas well. But I think those things
(23:53):
are important. But it'stalking to them and it's understanding
what their needs are, but alsowhat they're struggling with, what
their challenges are too. Andso coming together and trying to
meet in the middle and havesome rules, some consistency, but
also being open andunderstanding when you don't always
see the things that they'refaced with.
(24:15):
So much of what you're talkingabout really is rooted in communication
and clear communication acrossgenerations so what could you say
in terms of offering tips orsuggestions on how families can really
have productive conversationswho are in this group of being in
the sandwich generation?
Yeah. I think it's importantto ask them, you know, how was your
(24:38):
day? Just checking in withthem. And when you ask how is their
day, be interested. Right.Sometimes parents, we can ask the
question in the middle ofdoing something else and we're really
not listening. So I thinkthat's a very important one, is to
not just be visible, but to bepresent, be present with them. Perhaps
that's the dinner timeconversation. Tell me about your
(24:58):
day. What went great aboutyour day? I like to always celebrate
what went well. With mydaughter when she was in school,
I stayed in touch with theteachers. I didn't miss parent teacher
meetings when those went on.When she was in events at school,
I was making sure that I wasthere. But also just observing what's
(25:18):
going on around theenvironment. Right. Who she's hanging
out with and how she'sperceived. The other thing too is
around the observation of themand the communication is to just
watch them and how theircountenance may change or their moods
change. A lot of times kidsare dealing with things online and
are dealing with things atschool and if their countenance continues
(25:39):
to change and theirdisposition and behavior shifts,
be willing to go a little bitdeeper and find out, make sure they're
not being bullied at school orfeeling isolated or. Or those kinds
of things now that kids aredealing with, now that we didn't
deal with to that extent inthat degree. So I think those are
important. I've also too, Irecommend that sometimes if it's
(26:00):
not just asking them, it ishaving them to just tell you. Maybe
I had my daughter sometimesjust write down suggestions of how
can I be more informed, howcan I better support you in what
you're doing and what are youreally interested in doing outside
of school? Extracurricularactivities. I kept my daughter very,
(26:21):
very busy because I didn'twant her to be so idle. And when
she was busy, whether it wasdance, gymnastics or playing sports,
I was very involved with thatas well. That allows them to build
trust with you. It allows youto be able to see things they may
not say. But then I thinkalways having that open communication
and not being so quick tojudge and not being so quick to always
(26:42):
give the solution, sometimesthey just want you to listen and
they want you to mirror backwhat you just heard them say. We
can ask them, how can Isupport you? What would you like
for mommy to do to help youwith that, those kinds of things.
Where does self care fit inthe grand scheme of all the different
things that you do? When wetalk about the sandwich generation
(27:04):
and what would you advisesomebody entering this phase of life
with respect to self care?
It's so critical. It is goingto be one of the most important and
significant aspects for you,you to remain, you know, stable minded,
to, to keep peace, to bebalanced and to stay focused. So
(27:27):
for me I, I do practice selfcare on a daily basis, right. So
I make sure I get my sleep.For me I, I love to get massages.
That's a great way for me todecompress. I power walk every day.
So in the morning I'm up at 7walking 3 miles. In the evening before
I go, you know, before I godown, I decompress by walking again.
So I'm doing those six miles aday. Some people may exercise, I
(27:49):
think that's important. I willsometimes just take a vacation. Even
if it's just a two daygetaway. What I call a me treat,
where it's just me retreatingaway. Going to the ocean and going
to the water is a great wayfor me to also de stress and decompress.
I encourage people to do that.That's so important. Even if it's
sometimes self care can justbe for me, my prayer time, my meditation
(28:13):
time, it can be yoga class.But we've got to have an outlet.
Sometimes it's talking tofriends and venting to them and hopefully
that feels better. Sometimesit might just be, you know, watching
a good comedy and making youlaugh because laughter really is
a medicine. So it's thosekinds of things. But I encourage
people find a list of thingsthat you can do on a daily basis
(28:35):
to make sure you're practicingthis self care, but totally get to
sleep, eat right and make surethat you're getting the proper exercise.
Because you can't give from anempty cup. You can't put poor.
Absolutely not. When we talkabout the numbers and you, you went
through some of those numbersat the beginning of our conversation
with respect to the sandwichgeneration and it's just going to
(28:59):
continue to grow. When we, youknow, talk about where we are with
the elderly and, and all ofthat, do you see a need for fundamental
policy change or you know,significant shifts in the workplace
place to be able to betteraddress this proactively?
Absolutely, absolutely. So Istill work with companies and their
(29:21):
HR departments and theirleaders. HR from a perspective of
setting new policies andmaking sure that they're upgrading
and updating based on theneeds of, you know, this new demographic
of talent. I call it the newgeneration of workers, which is six
generations now. So makingsure that if you want to attract
top talent, top talent caresabout flexibility. So embedding in
(29:44):
your policies opportunitiesfor people to have flexible time
just like they have vacationtime, just like they have sick time.
Allow that if they, and I tellleaders on the opposite end is, you
know, manage to results andnot butts and seats. Just because
I'm not there with my foot inthe seat doesn't mean I'm not being
productive. Not mean, doesn'tmean I can't work. Manage to the
(30:05):
results because I may need totake care of my parents and get them
to the doctor's office officethat morning at 10:00, but I may
then make that up by workingthat night until 7 or 8 or 9 o' clock
at night. So manage to theresults and the outputs versus just
butts and seats. Because justbecause someone is at work and their
butt is in the seat doesn'tmean that they're productive. Doesn't
(30:26):
mean that they are actually,you know, connected. They may be
online and disconnected anddisengaged. So I think all of those
things are very important.Important. So hr yes. Thinking about
how we can formalize thesepolicies, how we can include elder
care as a benefit as well asflexible work policies being very
(30:47):
open to. When you talk aboutreturn to the office, that can look
very different. It doesn'thave to be four or five days a week
set at eight to five. There'sa lot of jobs that can be get, you
know, can get done and can beflexible based on the output and
not just hours, hours andnumber of days worked.
(31:07):
If you could leave parents whoare either about to enter the sandwich
generation or early into itwith a one piece of advice that could
be game changing for them.What would it be?
Yeah, I would say as we enterinto these new stages, let's embrace
life as it comes and treat itas an opportunity to continue to
(31:30):
grow, grow and not only growolder, but to grow in grace. We have
to have grace with each other.We have to grow old and as I say,
age gracefully as well and bewilling to make the age adjustments.
There are certain things Iknow in my 50s that I can't do anymore
that I used to do before. Bewilling to just lean into that and
(31:53):
know that you are stillworthy, you're still enough. There's
still so much that you cangive. There's a lot that you can
give back and pay it backforward that the next generation
needs. So no matter how old weare, what stage we're entering into,
as I say, make theadjustments, but know that you are
still worthy and you're stillvaluable and we still need you as
(32:15):
well.
So much insight to consider.Dr. Shirley Davis, podcaster, entrepreneur,
author, Sandwich GenerationMember, thank you so much for your
time and your pleasure.
What a pleasure. Thank you.Great talking with you. To learn
more about today's podcast,guest and topic, as well as other
parenting themes, visit whereparentstalk.com.
FOREIGN.
Welcome to the Where ParentsTalk podcast. We help grow better
parents through science,evidence and the lived experience
of other parents. Learn how tobetter navigate the mental and physical
health of your tween teen oryoung adult through proven expert
(00:21):
advice. Here's your host,Lianne Castelino. Foreign.
Welcome to Where Parents Talk.My name is Lianne Castelino. Our
guest today is a globalworkforce expert and a best selling
author. Dr. Shirley Davis isalso a former HR executive, a podcaster
(00:42):
and an entrepreneur. She isthe CEO of SDS Global Enterprises
and has more than 30 years ofexperience advising organizations
on leadership and workplaceculture. Dr. Davis has her own foundation.
She's also a mother of one anda member of the sandwich Generation.
She joins us today from Tampa,Florida. Great to be with you. Thanks
(01:05):
for joining us.
Thank you. It's wonderful tobe here. I appreciate the conversation.
Well, and we're talking aboutthe sandwich generation, and you
describe yourself as beingproud to be a member of the sandwich
generation.
Why is that? Well, part of itis because I have the pleasure and
I would say the responsibilityof taking care of my own parents
(01:28):
who are in their 80s now.Dad's 82 and mom is 81. I'm really
proud to be a part of thatgeneration, to be able to take care
of them in a way that allowsthem to live their, as I say, their
next to last chapters, theirbest life. And I'm glad to be able
to give that to them. I amalso one of the sandwich generations
that's still working. And alsomy daughter is, you know, in her
(01:52):
30s and helping her navigatethrough careers and, you know, relationships
and life. So it's a, it's awonderful opportunity to be able
to balance all of that.
And let's talk about thatbalance because just that description
would give a lot of parents,you know, a reason to feel sort of
faint and wonder, how does shedo all this? Because many parents
(02:13):
find themselves in the sameboat as you. So how do you go about
striving to find that balance?
Gosh, you know, it's a lot.It's never going to be even like
this, right? Where everythingis all, you know, on the same level.
Some of it, sometimes it'sjust prioritization. Sometimes I
have to delegate, I have toask for help. I have to say, look,
(02:34):
I need a timeout. I have to doa lot of my own work to make sure
that I'm not overburdeningmyself. I've learned how to say no.
I work with my parents to setboundaries. And so it's all of those
things. Right. Asking for helpand making sure that you practice
some self care and me time andprioritizations. You can't do everything.
(02:57):
And so don't feel guilty whenyou can't. It's all of those things
together and being able tomanage all of those expectations.
Absolutely. And now, assomebody who is involved in so many
different things over andabove and beside caring for your
parents and your daughter,what was the hardest part for you
(03:17):
to. What kind of adjustmentwas the hardest for you to make to
accommodate all that balancethat you're trying to achieve?
Yeah, you know what thehardest is, and most people can probably
relate, is trying to get yourparents to give up the life that
they've known. My parents havebeen in the Same House for 40 years.
It was my dad who alwaysprided himself on taking care of
(03:41):
us and being the head of thehousehold and the man of the house
and. And now I'm asking him touproot everything, sell everything,
or most everything. There aresome things I said you can bring
those things with you, but alot of things I had to. That can't
transfer to Tampa from. FromWashington D.C. which is where they're
from. So the hardest part wasjust making sure I convinced dad,
(04:01):
not necessarily mom, because Ihad her at hello. It was dad, the
man of the house, who reallywanted to hold on to, you know, what
he knew, hold on to comfortand familiarity and hold on to his
sense of manliness. And I hadto really work with him and help
him to see that this wasn't aloss, that this was a gain, this
(04:22):
was a blessing that you'll beable to sell you your home and not
have to try and take care somuch as you get older. And if you
get sick and aren't able to doit, you'll already be with me and
I can be able to help, youknow, help take care of you in those
ways. So I think that was whatwas able to really convince him.
Any particular obstacles thatyou personally had to overcome as
(04:46):
this high achiever with allthis stuff going on when it comes
to managing this?
A lot of them, you know,actually I did put my love life on
hold. I'm single. And so, youknow, the dating had to kind of subside
a little bit because I knewthat that was my priority is helping
them to sell their home,helping them to pack up, helping
(05:06):
them to move, and then oncethey got here, helping them to get
acclimated to a whole newenvironment, new doctors and, you
know, new medical proceduresand Just navigating, just geographically.
For me personally, it's verytime consuming and so I had to, when
I knew that they were coming.I recommend that people have some
(05:28):
time and space so that they dobe able to commit to. They can be
able to commit to. Helpingthem to navigate being available,
helping them to set upeverything, making phone calls, going
with them to doctor visits,helping them to transfer their driver's
license and their, you know,their tags. It's those little things
that we don't always thinkabout that were helpful. So for me,
(05:51):
it was just balancing thetypes of relationships that I had.
Dating got put on hold for alittle bit, make sure that they're
good. The other thing too,it's just being open to their ideas
and giving them flexibility.And I had to give them a lot of ways
that they could do things. Sogive them options, not make them
(06:12):
feel like now they gotta buyby all your rules. But let's set
rules together. Let's havefamily meetings, let's talk about
what's working, what's notworking, you know, consistently,
not when you allow things tokind of get a little bit more stressful,
but let's minimize stress andlet's have those kinds of conversations
early on. So it's making thosekinds of adjustments. And I would
(06:33):
also say the last thing, lotsof patience. Yeah. Being patient
and understanding. And Ilooked at it the opposite way versus
saying this is a burden. Ilooked at it as a blessing and I
said, you know what? Myparents are not going to be with
me always and they may not bemobile always. And so I have the
opportunity to enjoy them nowand to help the rest of their lives
(06:54):
be the best of their lives.And that mindset from a growth perspective
really helped me to. To bemore patient and understanding.
Certainly you have amassed alot of lived experience when we talk
about the sandwich generation.But curious as to what inspired your
deeper interest in this area.To the extent that you talk about
it and you've got a podcastthat deals with it. What fuel that?
(07:19):
A couple of things. I'm ahuman resources veteran. I've been
in HR for over 30 years, soI've been deal with it a lot. Even
in workplaces. It's a lot ofwhat my clients have been requesting
over the last seven to 10years as we are now dealing with
five generations. And thesixth generation Alphas came in last
year. Right. They're theyoungest of us. But because companies
(07:41):
are dealing with a lot of thedemographic shifts and the complexities,
one of the most common callsthat I was getting was, can you come
in and train us on how to leadmore effectively across generations?
So I knew it was a challengeinside of companies, I was consulting
with them on strategies forhow to really shift their archaic
and sometimes their outdatedpolicies to be accommodating now
(08:05):
of a much younger generation.When you look at the statistics,
it's really startling, right?Because recent research tells us
that nearly 30% of the U.S.adults are actually in that sandwich
generation. But about 67% ofthem, 67 million, I should say, of
(08:25):
them are actually dealing withthis and trying to navigate. Navigate
work as well as home lifebalance. So it's an issue at work
and at home. And because I'min hr, it became a real thing. It
also became a real thing to mewhen the pandemic happened in 2020
and I was able to bring myparents to Tampa to live with me,
(08:46):
or what we call snowbirding,right? You come and live from November
to March, get them out of thecold weather and allow them to be
here where it's warmerclimates. And we got a chance to
live together. And I had livedwith my parents for over 40 years,
so we were reintrod,introducing ourselves to each other
because I left home at 17 andnever went back. Right. I went to
college and then started mylife. And so I got to understand
(09:10):
and reintroduce myself to myparents as an adult grown woman,
a career woman and a mom. Andthey introduced themselves to me
again as older parents becauseI knew them when I left in their
30s and 40s. Right. So verydifferent. And I got a chance to
see that my parents had sloweddown. I got a chance to see that
(09:31):
the things I used to ask themto do, they couldn't do them as fast
or as much anymore. Somethings that my dad couldn't do anymore,
like going way up on the topof the roof of the house. Right.
So I started to see thosethings and that's what precipitated
the interest. And I'm like,wow, this is millions of us that
are dealing with this,companies are dealing with it. So
(09:51):
let us take it on, head on andprovide some strategies and real
world, raw experiences.
So building on that point alittle bit more, are there any particular
stressors that you're seeingaffecting today's sandwich generation?
You talk about your parentsbeing in their 80s, your daughter
being in her 30s, but thereare all different kinds of sandwich
(10:13):
generation demographics. Butare there any other stressors in
particular that people todayare facing who are part of this group?
Yeah, I think the biggeststressor that I hear a lot from focus
groups that we do, and evenwhen we do worker engagement surveys,
they want to be able tobalance it all. They want more flexible
(10:34):
work. So that's the biggestthing, right, is they want flexible
work. And now we're in an agewhere at one point everybody was
kind of relegated to workingfrom home. 2020 through 2023, really,
most people were still workingfrom home or in a hybrid work environment.
And now companies arereturning to the office, many of
them to a very differentdegree. Right. Some two and three
(10:55):
days a week, some one day aweek. But at some point, there's
that transition that'shappening again. So flexibility is
the number one stressor. Thosewho feel like they don't have enough
flexibility at work to be ableto handle it all, and then those
who are being asked to comeback into the workplace when they
sort of had gotten into aroutine of how they could work from
(11:16):
home and take care of theirparents, some of them are having
to deal with elder care. Andwhether that's putting them in facilities
or senior assistants, assistedliving, or having home health care
providers come in, those arestressors, in addition to having
younger children at home thatalso have responsibility. So there's
a lot of that back and forth.That's the biggest stressor.
(11:39):
So what would you say then tosomebody who finds themselves in
one of those examples? Let'ssay they've been hybrid or remote
since the pandemic and now arebeing asked to go back into the office
multiple times a week whenthey have figured out how to be flexible,
being, you know, at home formost of it, maybe there's not a choice
in their lives and they'remanaging again, elderly parents,
(12:01):
young kids, whatever thesituation is for them. What would
you say to them?
It's a couple of things. Soone is I always ask them to, you
know, make sure that you'rechecking in with your parents, seeing
how they're doing, what theirneeds are, so that you sort of a
needs assessment even of yourparents and of your children. What
are the needs? And then I'mbig on making sure that you build
(12:23):
a network of support. Youcannot do it alone. You and your
husband, or you and yourspouse and partner can't do it alone.
So be willing to ask for help.Look at what are some of the resources
that are available both athome in your community, but also
in your organization. Becausesometimes people don't realize that
the employee assistanceprograms are available to them. They're
(12:44):
not always aware of some ofthe benefits that their companies
provide, whether it is eldercare benefits or if it is, maybe
some kinds of discounts orpartnerships that they have. So that's
very important. I think theother part of it is boundaries, is
making sure that you setboundaries with your parents, with
your children, and set someclear expectations. Like I told my
(13:04):
daughter, I was a single momwhen I was growing up, and I said,
look, I won't be able to makeevery single event that you're involved
in, but let me know what'sreally most important to you. And
those are the things that Iwill prioritize. And so she'll tell
you that there is rarelyanything that I missed. I think that's
important. And then I thinkthe other part around the boundaries
is, and the expectations isstart to delegate and make sure everybody
(13:27):
is pitching in, that everybodyis carrying their load to the extent
that they can so that youdon't feel like the burden is all
on you or your spouse. Soeveryone has to be a part of living
together and making it work.Well, all of those things I think
are very, very key andcritical. And the other last one
I'll say is just don't overcommit to things that, you know you
(13:47):
can't do. If it's notsomething that's in your wheelhouse
of expertise or you just don'tlike it, or it wears you out and
stresses you out, be willingto delegate and ask for help that
way too.
As you know, as a mom, guiltis a formidable force and especially
as a caregiver. And now you'vegot, you know, these two sort of
(14:08):
ends pulling at you. Are thereunique differences with respect to
culture, gender, age groupsthat you found with your experience
when it comes to caregivingand the load and how to manage it?
Obviously, if you are helping,you know, taking care of your elderly
parents, there's a hugegenerational gap in the ways that
(14:31):
they were raised and thevalues that they hold versus the
younger generation, yourchildren that may be in their 20s
and 30s. And so I think it'simportant to continue to talk about
those things, but also to meetin the middle. You won't be able
to do everything for yourparents at the way that they want
it. Like, a lot of my time isspent even with my parents just trying
(14:52):
to navigate technology. Sowhat I've been able to do is sometimes
I'll be like, I delegate it tomy daughter, say, look, can you help
your grandparents with all thetechnology stuff, the TVs that they
watch, the cell phones andstuff that they have Those are important,
but then it's also value.Sometimes they don't understand each
other. I've got a differentvalue system as a Gen Xer than my
(15:12):
daughter, who's a millenniumthan my parents, who are traditionalists,
right in their 80s. So we allhave to talk and we all have to come
together to an agreement asyou know what, that's your era. But
this is her error. Whetherit's things that require like for
example, shifting mindsetsaround dinner time, like my daughter
is not necessarily one thatevery Sunday you're going to have
(15:35):
dinner. That's the way we grewup. That's the way my parents grew
up. But the youngergeneration, right, they want to sit
and watch TV and eat at thesame time or they may not be at the
table. If they're going to beat the table, they're going to have
their, their technology withthem, making those kinds of tweaks
and adjustments and talkingabout them. So you won't be able
to swing everybody to theextreme pendulum. So find a way to
(15:57):
meet in the middle. So Sundayis that day where we come together
and we have dinner and nophone zone, right? Just come and
let's talk and let's, youknow, enjoy each other. But that's
not something you're going todo every day, those little tweaks
like that.
Dr. Davis, what would you sayare some of the common or most common
emotional challenges thatpeople within the sandwich generation
(16:18):
may experience and what theyshould, should they should be mindful
of, really?
Yeah, I think you hit on oneof them, right. Is guilt that I may
not be able to do all thethings. I think the other common
emotion too is just thestressor of the financial pressure
that that might also require.I mean, I know for me, you know,
when my parents moved in, I'mnot asking them to, to pay, you know,
(16:40):
anything, but, you know, tocontribute if they want to, to help
with food. But your bills aregoing to go up, right? Because utilities,
the lights are on more, wateris being used more. And so I found
that to be a somewh a stressorbecause it increased. So that's something
to think about. The otherstressor is sometimes just seeing
your parents getting old infront of you older, I should say.
(17:03):
And some of the illnesses thatthey may experiences and the challenges,
sometimes the emotional stresscan also be, is that they want you
to take them places. So youbecome the Uber driver as well. And
you're helping, you got totake care of them and make sure they're
good. So it's those kinds ofthings. So it ranges everything from
guilt to, for me, what I thinkon the other side of it is complete
(17:26):
excitement, joy and peace thatI can spend as much quality time
with them while they're here.Same thing with my kids. They're
spending quality time withtheir grandparents as well. And I
just feel like whenever thattime does come and they transition
to their next life, that Iwill not have any regrets. So I'm
(17:48):
grateful to be able to havethat opportunity now to spend that.
But it's also that toll can bea lot of may feel a sense of. What's
the word? Overwhelmed. Becausethey know that that day is coming.
And, you know, for me in their80s, I hope they live to be over
100. Right. But that may notalways be the reality.
(18:10):
Yeah, I. I'm curious, was thatalways your mindset, in terms of
looking at it as, you know, ablessing that you have this time
to spend? Because it seems tome that if entering this kind of
phase of life as a sandwichgeneration individual, if you have
that mindset, you're alreadyahead of the game. Did you start
(18:30):
with that?
I didn't. Let me tell you why.Most of my career of 30 years was
in corporate America. Itraveled 60 to 70% of the time. I
really didn't think about it.I didn't until 2020 when everything
shut down and I asked myparents to come here so I could take
care of them and make surethat all the younger grandkids weren't
(18:50):
running in and out becausethey thought they were indispensable.
When Covid was going around,it's like, you guys, look. There
was no vaccine at the time,nothing. And I wanted to make sure
that they were good. And Iknew that I lived alone and I knew
I was going to make sure thatthey were cared for. I didn't see
any of that until I got tolive with them again. And I began
to see how much I seen themchange and slow down and not do as
(19:14):
much. And they were aging, andit was those three years of snowbirding
with them during those fourmonths that I started saying, wow,
we've lived together for thesefour months. We've been okay. We
haven't had any real issuesand any disconnects. We've been able
to talk things out, get along.And I started to see then the importance
(19:34):
of not being so busy that youforget about your parents or being
so busy that you don't see theshifts and the changes that they're
going through as well. That'swhen it started, it's like, wow,
I've had the chance now tospend really good quality time with
them. As they're getting oldernow to their 80s, I want to spend
more time with them. And asI've gotten more successful in my
(19:56):
career, I can afford to nowtake care of them as well. So that's
when it started, was just afew years ago. So, no, I hadn't always
had that. I've been a greatdaughter. I've always loved my parents
and we've always been reallyclose, but I wasn't always thinking
of, I'm going to take care ofthem because I've got three brothers,
right? And so we just hadn'ttalked about it, but that's when
(20:17):
it came up.
You've talked about boundariesa few times. Certainly so critical
to the success or lack of whenyou're talking about the sandwich
generation. What would you saythat healthy boundaries should involve?
What does that look like?
So a couple of things. I hadto remind my parents that while I'm
(20:38):
still the daughter, I'm a verygrown adult woman who has her own
mind and who can take care ofherself. So some of the boundaries
was, I'm not gonna have acurfew, right? Just because you living
with me now, if I'm not homeby 10 or 11 o', clock, I'll just
let you know, I'm not gonna bethere. But you don't need to ask
me where I'm at, what am Idoing when coming home. So boundaries
(21:01):
around still maintain yourlevel of independence and your lifestyle
also boundaries around, right?Who's going to take care of certain
responsibilities around thehouse? So for my dad, because he's
still mobile, I'm grateful forthat. He wants to be able to take
care of the lawn and if thingsare irrepared, he wants me to check
(21:21):
with him first. Before callinga repairman, I was always used to
calling contractors in. It'sthose boundaries of giving them some
freedom, them some liberties,but finding out what they can't do.
So when my dad can't docertain things, what we've agreed
to is I'll call the contractorand make him the foreman, so he's
the one that deals with them,he lets them in. Even with mom, some
(21:44):
of the boundaries are, I can'talways take you to every doctor's
appointment, but I'll go tothe ones that are key and critical
so that I can ask questionsand be there. It may be, for example,
my. It's funny with. With mydad, he's you know, I'm such a daddy's
girl and he's so protective.But my dating life, right. We had
to set some boundaries aroundthat is, I'm not going to introduce
(22:06):
you to everybody, you know,that I'm going out with, but when
it's time, I'll bring themhome. But you don't need to ask questions
until I'm ready. So thosekinds of things, when I'm here working
from home and they're here, wehave to set boundaries around noise
levels and time frames of whenthey're going to be walking through,
past the camera in the office.Office. Right. Those things and the
(22:27):
noise level. So certain thingslike that. It's so many of those
kinds of boundaries that wejust had to, to. To think about and
work through.
Many of the parents who willbe watching and listening to this
interview will have parentstoo. We are parents will have kids
who are in their teens andthe, you know, the always adventurous
(22:47):
adolescent years in manyhouseholds at the same time, time
as managing their older parentor their parents as well in an older
age group. What would you sayto that group of parents? Because
it is so demanding when youthink about the Internet and social
media and relationships and,you know, isolation and all these
things that are currentlyaffecting young people today.
(23:11):
Yeah, there's so many shiftsand changes and their challenges
a little bit different than myparents challenges or either ours
right in the middle. And so Ithink it's very important to be very
observant with the kids, knowwho their friends are, know what
they're looking at online. Idid the same thing with my daughter,
who's a millennial now, was Iset boundaries about her phone time.
(23:32):
I do have access to her phoneitself, to her records, how much
time she's spending on it.There's a certain time where curfew
is in place after 11 o',clock, you know, lights are out and,
you know, put cell phones andstuff down. So it's those kinds.
I'm grateful now that theschool system has kind of set some
of those kind of ground rulesas well. But I think those things
(23:53):
are important. But it'stalking to them and it's understanding
what their needs are, but alsowhat they're struggling with, what
their challenges are too. Andso coming together and trying to
meet in the middle and havesome rules, some consistency, but
also being open andunderstanding when you don't always
see the things that they'refaced with.
(24:15):
So much of what you're talkingabout really is rooted in communication
and clear communication acrossgenerations so what could you say
in terms of offering tips orsuggestions on how families can really
have productive conversationswho are in this group of being in
the sandwich generation?
Yeah. I think it's importantto ask them, you know, how was your
(24:38):
day? Just checking in withthem. And when you ask how is their
day, be interested. Right.Sometimes parents, we can ask the
question in the middle ofdoing something else and we're really
not listening. So I thinkthat's a very important one, is to
not just be visible, but to bepresent, be present with them. Perhaps
that's the dinner timeconversation. Tell me about your
(24:58):
day. What went great aboutyour day? I like to always celebrate
what went well. With mydaughter when she was in school,
I stayed in touch with theteachers. I didn't miss parent teacher
meetings when those went on.When she was in events at school,
I was making sure that I wasthere. But also just observing what's
(25:18):
going on around theenvironment. Right. Who she's hanging
out with and how she'sperceived. The other thing too is
around the observation of themand the communication is to just
watch them and how theircountenance may change or their moods
change. A lot of times kidsare dealing with things online and
are dealing with things atschool and if their countenance continues
(25:39):
to change and theirdisposition and behavior shifts,
be willing to go a little bitdeeper and find out, make sure they're
not being bullied at school orfeeling isolated or. Or those kinds
of things now that kids aredealing with, now that we didn't
deal with to that extent inthat degree. So I think those are
important. I've also too, Irecommend that sometimes if it's
(26:00):
not just asking them, it ishaving them to just tell you. Maybe
I had my daughter sometimesjust write down suggestions of how
can I be more informed, howcan I better support you in what
you're doing and what are youreally interested in doing outside
of school? Extracurricularactivities. I kept my daughter very,
(26:21):
very busy because I didn'twant her to be so idle. And when
she was busy, whether it wasdance, gymnastics or playing sports,
I was very involved with thatas well. That allows them to build
trust with you. It allows youto be able to see things they may
not say. But then I thinkalways having that open communication
and not being so quick tojudge and not being so quick to always
(26:42):
give the solution, sometimesthey just want you to listen and
they want you to mirror backwhat you just heard them say. We
can ask them, how can Isupport you? What would you like
for mommy to do to help youwith that, those kinds of things.
Where does self care fit inthe grand scheme of all the different
things that you do? When wetalk about the sandwich generation
(27:04):
and what would you advisesomebody entering this phase of life
with respect to self care?
It's so critical. It is goingto be one of the most important and
significant aspects for you,you to remain, you know, stable minded,
to, to keep peace, to bebalanced and to stay focused. So
(27:27):
for me I, I do practice selfcare on a daily basis, right. So
I make sure I get my sleep.For me I, I love to get massages.
That's a great way for me todecompress. I power walk every day.
So in the morning I'm up at 7walking 3 miles. In the evening before
I go, you know, before I godown, I decompress by walking again.
So I'm doing those six miles aday. Some people may exercise, I
(27:49):
think that's important. I willsometimes just take a vacation. Even
if it's just a two daygetaway. What I call a me treat,
where it's just me retreatingaway. Going to the ocean and going
to the water is a great wayfor me to also de stress and decompress.
I encourage people to do that.That's so important. Even if it's
sometimes self care can justbe for me, my prayer time, my meditation
(28:13):
time, it can be yoga class.But we've got to have an outlet.
Sometimes it's talking tofriends and venting to them and hopefully
that feels better. Sometimesit might just be, you know, watching
a good comedy and making youlaugh because laughter really is
a medicine. So it's thosekinds of things. But I encourage
people find a list of thingsthat you can do on a daily basis
(28:35):
to make sure you're practicingthis self care, but totally get to
sleep, eat right and make surethat you're getting the proper exercise.
Because you can't give from anempty cup. You can't put poor.
Absolutely not. When we talkabout the numbers and you, you went
through some of those numbersat the beginning of our conversation
with respect to the sandwichgeneration and it's just going to
(28:59):
continue to grow. When we, youknow, talk about where we are with
the elderly and, and all ofthat, do you see a need for fundamental
policy change or you know,significant shifts in the workplace
place to be able to betteraddress this proactively?
Absolutely, absolutely. So Istill work with companies and their
(29:21):
HR departments and theirleaders. HR from a perspective of
setting new policies andmaking sure that they're upgrading
and updating based on theneeds of, you know, this new demographic
of talent. I call it the newgeneration of workers, which is six
generations now. So makingsure that if you want to attract
top talent, top talent caresabout flexibility. So embedding in
(29:44):
your policies opportunitiesfor people to have flexible time
just like they have vacationtime, just like they have sick time.
Allow that if they, and I tellleaders on the opposite end is, you
know, manage to results andnot butts and seats. Just because
I'm not there with my foot inthe seat doesn't mean I'm not being
productive. Not mean, doesn'tmean I can't work. Manage to the
(30:05):
results because I may need totake care of my parents and get them
to the doctor's office officethat morning at 10:00, but I may
then make that up by workingthat night until 7 or 8 or 9 o' clock
at night. So manage to theresults and the outputs versus just
butts and seats. Because justbecause someone is at work and their
butt is in the seat doesn'tmean that they're productive. Doesn't
(30:26):
mean that they are actually,you know, connected. They may be
online and disconnected anddisengaged. So I think all of those
things are very important.Important. So hr yes. Thinking about
how we can formalize thesepolicies, how we can include elder
care as a benefit as well asflexible work policies being very
(30:47):
open to. When you talk aboutreturn to the office, that can look
very different. It doesn'thave to be four or five days a week
set at eight to five. There'sa lot of jobs that can be get, you
know, can get done and can beflexible based on the output and
not just hours, hours andnumber of days worked.
(31:07):
If you could leave parents whoare either about to enter the sandwich
generation or early into itwith a one piece of advice that could
be game changing for them.What would it be?
Yeah, I would say as we enterinto these new stages, let's embrace
life as it comes and treat itas an opportunity to continue to
(31:30):
grow, grow and not only growolder, but to grow in grace. We have
to have grace with each other.We have to grow old and as I say,
age gracefully as well and bewilling to make the age adjustments.
There are certain things Iknow in my 50s that I can't do anymore
that I used to do before. Bewilling to just lean into that and
(31:53):
know that you are stillworthy, you're still enough. There's
still so much that you cangive. There's a lot that you can
give back and pay it backforward that the next generation
needs. So no matter how old weare, what stage we're entering into,
as I say, make theadjustments, but know that you are
still worthy and you're stillvaluable and we still need you as
(32:15):
well.
So much insight to consider.Dr. Shirley Davis, podcaster, entrepreneur,
author, Sandwich GenerationMember, thank you so much for your
time and your pleasure.
What a pleasure. Thank you.Great talking with you. To learn
more about today's podcast,guest and topic, as well as other
parenting themes, visit whereparentstalk.com.
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