June 7, 2025 • 35 mins
Making the leap from high school to university is a major life shift—for both students and parents.
This transition can be a daunting experience particularly considering the myriad challenges posed by increased independence, academic pressures, and social dynamics.
In this episode of the Where Parents Talk podcast, host Lianne Castelino speaks with Dr. Michael De Robertis, Professor Emeritus, York University who spent more than 35 years teaching astrophysics and astronomy.
The discussion explores the key differences between high school and university, highlighting the importance of time management, discipline, and effective communication.
Takeaways:
- Navigating the transition from high school to university involves significant independence, requiring students to manage their own time and responsibilities effectively.
- Parents can ease their child's transition to university by engaging in open communication about academic expectations and the importance of discipline in managing stress.
- Understanding the role of social media and device usage is crucial, as these can distract students from their studies and contribute to feelings of isolation or bullying.
- Encouraging emotional health and resilience through discussions about purpose and motivation can lead to better academic performance during challenging first terms at university.
- The benefits of physical presence in classrooms extend beyond academic learning; engaging with peers fosters relationships that can enhance the overall university experience.
- Establishing consent and communication boundaries is essential for students as they navigate new relationships during their university years, impacting their social interactions and personal growth.
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- York University
- University of Toronto
This podcast is for parents, guardians, teachers and caregivers to learn proven strategies and trusted tips on raising kids, teens and young adults based on science, evidenced and lived experience.
You’ll learn the latest on topics like managing bullying, consent, fostering healthy relationships, and the interconnectedness of mental, emotional and physical health.
Links referenced in this episode:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Foreign.
Welcome to the Where ParentsTalk podcast. We help grow better
parents through science,evidence and the lived experience
of other parents. Learn how tobetter navigate the mental and physical
health of your tween teen oryoung adult through proven expert
(00:21):
advice. Here's your host,Leanne Castellino. Welcome to Where
Parents Talk. My name isLianne Castelino. Our guest today
is a professor emeritus fromYork University. Professor Michael
De Robertis was a professor ofphysics and astronomy for over 35
years, carrying out originalresearch in astrophysics and astronomy.
(00:46):
He has also contributed toundergraduate and graduate student
teaching and supervision andhas served in many administrative
roles. Professor De Robertisrecently produced a series of videos
to help students and familiesanswer the key academic and administrative
questions that they mayencounter in the first year of university.
(01:07):
Professor De Robertis is alsoa father of two and he joins us today
from Toronto. Reallyappreciate you taking the time.
My pleasure.
You certainly have all kindsof experience with students in this
age group, given yourbackground, but I wonder what made
you feel compelled to developthis video series and the documents
(01:29):
to help parents and studentsheading into their first year of
university?
Well, Lianne, I had and I justretired. I had initially made some
content via videos onastronomy and astrophysics, but then
it came to me when I reviewedmy career how how many challenges
(01:54):
that students in my first yearthrough fourth year classes faced
that involved academic andadministrative challenges and they
tripped on some of thesethings and had they been aware of
them and possible solutionsand strategies to get around them
or through them, it would havemade their lives much, much better.
(02:18):
I think as an undergraduatestudent, and it all starts at first
year, I might say that I'm notwith a faculty of education or anything
like that. I'm very much inthe trenches and it's my observations
that I tried to address inmaking this video and the supplemental
documentation.
So certainly no shortage ofthings for people to know. How did
(02:39):
you go about parsing throughall that information to get to the
basic important points thatyou thought they should know?
Well, interestingly enough,university faculty, those who are
in the classroom, both onlineand person to person, face to face,
(02:59):
we have been encouraged on ourown and through our senior administration
to make the connection withundergraduate students much stronger.
It used to be that coursedescriptions in the syllabi or the
synopsis that you'd receivewhen you're choosing your courses
(03:20):
was a few sent long and that'sall you got. And then even on your
first class they would mumblea few things so that his faculty
would mumble a Few thingsabout how the course was going to
be addressed, but it becamemore and more formal and this was
really helpful for students.And I had been involved in this process
through the faculty of scienceat my university at York University,
(03:43):
but I had colleagues all overthe place that shared these experiences
with me and I thought hadgotten to a point where I almost
had everything already in mysynopsis and syllabi. So why not
actually address students whoare going into first year prospective
(04:05):
students, university students?After all, 60% of Canadian high school
graduates go to either collegeor university. So a significant fraction
end up in university. And someof them have experiences that, shall
we say, aren't the mostpleasant because they've tripped
on something that, that, thatcould have been ameliorated, it could
(04:26):
have been addressed in a videoand a document. And so that's why
I have done that and that'swhat compelled me. It's pretty well
all there. I think I'll justput it together in a video.
So then, from your experience,what would you say are the biggest
differences between highschool and university that parents
(04:46):
would often underestimate?
University is significantly,or I would say radically different
from high school. So it's notjust grades 13, 14, 15 and 16. As
an undergraduate, studentsvery early on realize that they're
(05:06):
in a class of potentiallydozens to hundreds of students. And
there are reasons for verylarge introductory classes, which
invariably is the first yearclass size. No matter what university
you attend, even smalleruniversities will still have a class
size of 150 to 250. And inlarger universities such as University
(05:29):
of Toronto, York University,for example, University of Montreal,
you're in for hundreds andseveral hundred sometimes. And the,
so that's, that's immediatelyradically different. And then you
soon find out that thelecturer, the teacher, the professor
doesn't really care that youshow up. You could sleep through
(05:52):
all their lectures and getthem online, or as long as you hand
in your assignments, show upfor your term tests and finally exams,
that's all they expect of you.That's radically different, I'm told,
from talking with high schoolstudents in first year classes all
the way through my career. Imean, in high school they care about
(06:16):
who you are and, and they,they want to make sure that you know,
any issues are addressed. Sothe idea that you know, you have
great personal autonomy atuniversities, you're on your own
to a large extent now, thereis a great deal of assistance that
is available, but as muchthat's what I tried to fold in in
(06:39):
my videos, that is, thereThere are resources that can help
students. In fact, even in thesummer prior to entering first year
university, there areresources that universities now produce
called, you know, transitionresources that help students make
that transition. To someextent that. But there are also resources
(07:01):
throughout first year thathelp students if they stumble for
one reason or another. And soit is, I think, that idea that you're
on your own and you needreally to manage your own time, to
manage your affairs verycarefully, because you have five
(07:21):
courses, essentially two tothree hours a week, lecture times,
some lab times, otherconstraints on, you know, your, your
time. And you need to managethis very, very carefully if, if
you're to get it all done. Andthe temptations are there to pull
you away from doing thelecture material to studying, to
(07:44):
prepare for your assignmentsis there too, because you have new
friends, you have newdistractions. And in fact, you now
are not just walking to schoolor traveling on public transportation.
In a few minutes ride, you'reactually going to a campus largely
unless you're in residence andyou know you're there for the whole
(08:06):
day. Are you going to make useof your time in the libraries, in
small study carrels, that kindof thing. So it needs a great deal
of thought to get the most outof your time at university.
That level of independence forsome students, certainly today, when
we factor in that there'sstill a lot of helicopter parenting
(08:27):
going on, and parentscertainly to a large degree, many
of them micromanaging whattheir kids do and don't do, that
level of independence can beoverwhelming for the average student.
What can you say to a parentwho is in this situation about how
they could potentially easetheir, that transition for their
(08:48):
child?
That's a difficult question.And of course it depends on each
individual son or daughter.But first of all, on a logistical
level, traveling to campus,getting familiar with the campus
the whole family can walkaround, find your lecture halls.
(09:09):
This is where so and so yourdaughter's going to be your lecturer.
This is where your son isgoing to be doing his lab. And it's
very, very helpful for thewhole maybe to tour and you won't
be embarrassed because youwon't run into anyone else. Also
taking advantage of thesetransition programs. And there are
(09:29):
programs that can help evensmall universities have these programs
typically help you write alittle better, help you communicate
a little better. But I want toreally emphasize that there are transition
programs in the STEM fields.So science, technology, engineering,
math fields where the languageof communication in STEM is mathematics.
(09:53):
And so many students, even Astudents and B plus students, in
high school sometimes faceserious challenges in their disciplines
when they reach university.And to be able to speak the language
of mathematics really helps tosmooth that transition. And it has.
(10:16):
These transition programs inSTEM mathematics have been tested
now for over a decade in manyof the larger universities such as
York and the University ofToronto. And they find that students,
even students who think theyknow math very well, go into these
math transition programs.These are usually intensive four
(10:38):
days a week, six hours a day.Those students who go through these
programs, even if they had anA in and a B or in high school in
math, they do perceptibly wella half a letter grade, sometimes
even a whole letter gradebetter, not just in math, but in
their science courses allaround. So it really demonstrably
(11:01):
helps. So taking advantage ofthis transition programs are really
good. But I also think thereare other issues. The idea of encouraging
time management skills, askingyour son or daughter not just how
things are going, but discussacademic related matters, what do
(11:25):
you think of this and why,that kind of thing. So to encourage
time management skills, theability to discuss and to martial
evidence based answers, I, Iknow that sounds a bit formal, but
just taking it up one notch toencourage your son or daughter to
(11:46):
start that conversation at alittle higher level so that when
they hit the ground inSeptember, they hit the ground at
least walking, if not running,because we'll talk, I'm sure, about
critical thinking skills andprofessional transferable skills,
which are really key.
Absolutely. Before we get tothat, I do want to ask you because
for some kids, you know, justthe thought of making that big step
(12:10):
and maybe not feeling preparedor self assured is already putting
them behind the eight ball andmaybe having them question the why
of why am I going touniversity in the first place. So
is there something that youcan say to parents to help them help
their child clarify that whyas to why they're heading to post
secondary?
(12:32):
Yes, I think perhaps a littlesimplistically in the video and in
the document I sort ofcharacterize sort of three groups
of high school graduatingstudents. So one group has known
for forever Tensorprofessional programs and they know
(12:55):
what they want and they knowhow to get it. And that's wonderful.
So there are people who, youknow, enter university for specific
reasons and have, are laserfocused on succeeding and that's
wonderful. There are otherstudents though, and I think perhaps
it's a majority, it'sarguable, who don't really know what
(13:16):
they want to do. Their bestfriends or friends are also going
off to university. They haveheard that, you know, if you get
a undergraduate degree, youusually earn more money per cap per
year. And, but by and large,they're not ready or willing or whatever
to enter the worker careerworld yet. And that's fine. That's
(13:42):
fine. But they lack, I think,a deeper motivation which I think
the third group of studentshas, and that is the motivation you're
going to university to learnwhat the most brilliant and incisive
and interesting peoplethroughout history and at this moment
(14:04):
have said about variousissues, issues that impact us as
human beings are to satisfyour curiosities in psychology and
physics, in the languages andsociolog. What have people said all
across the world in variouscultures that in fact help us learn
(14:30):
more about who we areindividually and who we are as a
community. And that communitycould be nation and even the world.
So I think the I, and that'sthe, the group, by the way, that
most professors like to teachto these person, the folks who are
really interested just soakingup the, the, the information, not
just the information, but thereason people thinking this way throughout
(14:54):
history and what differentviews have been put forward for various
cultures and varioussocieties. The ability to be able
to listen, to learn and toargue in a comprehensive way is really,
really helpful.
You alluded to discipline andtime management earlier, and I wonder
(15:17):
if we could unpack that alittle bit because I think you could
argue that those two conceptsor things that, that are part of
a lifelong journey for most ofus trying to constantly hone, you
know, how to be betterdisciplined and better use, use our
time. But what can you say toparents in terms of any practical
tips that they couldpotentially offer to that child entering
(15:39):
university in advance of themheading off?
Yes, that's. That, that, thatis a challenge, of course, particularly
in the summer where, you know,students are not going to school
and they expect the reins notto be as tight at course, but I think
perhaps just engaging indiscussions, a variety of discussions,
(16:05):
not necessarily politics, butwhat do you think of this particular
idea? Someone has talked aboutthis and, you know, just encouraging
your son or daughter to, Ithink just weigh in on the various
issues and not just this iswhat I think about it, but why that
kind of thing. So there's,there's this type of issue, but I
(16:28):
also think the idea of timemanagement is critical and I'm sure
we'll get more into that andif there are ways of maybe, maybe
suggesting that, you know, ata certain time on the weekend we
might have just a familyconversation about anything that
you found interesting this dayand Once students get into university,
if they live at home askingthem not just about how was your
(16:52):
day and of course my boyswould say good and that's all you
get out of them but actuallytrying to tease out of them you know,
what kind of what did theylearn today? What impact is their
day to day education. Havingto share that with the family, with
their brothers and sistersperhaps at home. So I think and trying
(17:13):
to time management is more ofa logistical issue as we'll get into
but any, anything parents cando to, to really help get students
more organized and slightlymore disciplined because that's critical
to succeeding at university.
So then in an ideal state asan educator when should time management
(17:36):
skills let's call them at homereally be introduced and honed at
what age in advance of postsecondary.
Yeah, the, the reason thatthat time management is, is so important
is be that are are vying foryou are competing for your attention
(18:00):
at university. You know, soand so the night before a term test
they want to go out to a club.No, no, I, I, I really have to study
this evening. And moreimportantly actually there are strategies
that allow you to beintelligently lazy. So in the end
in fact you don't have tospend as much time for example studying
(18:23):
for exams and tests if you aterm keeping up with the stuff, keeping
up with the lectures, thatkind of thing, reviewing your materials.
So that's very important. Buttime, time. So time management skills
are essential to succeed andany way that parents can somehow
(18:47):
inculcate this into thechildren the better. I really have
unfortunately not great ideashere but it's anything that creatively
that they can think ofcertainly once they get to university
having their sons anddaughters right at their schedules
very clearly and checking inon them. I know it's a little difficult
(19:11):
because independence is thereis being sought but just checking
in, making sure don't leave itto the end of term to ask your son
or daughter how are thingsgoing? Take weekly interest in it
and there'll be certain weeksthat they won't want to talk because
they're so engaged in theirstudies. But there are other weeks,
(19:31):
most weeks maybe 10 out of the12 weeks where they are approachable
and I think that's the time totry to engage them little by little.
We talked about the why for astudent why are they entering post
secondary an academicinstitution. But let's talk about
a student's sense of purposeand how would you say that that affects
(19:55):
their resilience and theiracademic performance especially during
those sort of challengingfirst terms post secondary.
Yes, if I think it's mycolleagues, social scientists and
sociologists and in fact it'spretty common sense that folks that,
that had meaning and purposein their lives, a big subject, you
(20:20):
know, tend to, tend to farebetter psychologically just in general.
So meaning and purpose arecritical and that's why to get, I
think a proper motivation toenter into university. And even though
there'll be lows, but there'llbe highs as well throughout the term.
And I think keeping, keepingthe, I think your attention focused
(20:48):
on, on the final goalessentially which is doing well in
a course and learning as muchactively. That is really the critical
element. And so that's whyit's important to list to have a
schedule to keep to theschedule to be disciplined and. But
(21:12):
in fact making it very clearthat this night, this time is set
for studies. This time is formy labs, this time is for my assignments
and this time on the weekendis for maybe going somewhere with
friends and family.
We live in a world ofsynchronous and asynchronous learning,
all kinds of digital toolsthat are for the most part aimed
(21:35):
at making things moreefficient and helpful. But why is
physical presence in a classstill so essential and especially
in the first term at university?
This is a critical questionbecause I've seen so many students
at the beginning of term theycome to class and they are amazed
(21:58):
that this is just grade 12 allover again in physics or in literature
and, and then you come to thesecond class and they see the same
effect. Well, maybe I don'thave to come to class since the class
is being video recorded andthe, the instructor makes it available
(22:19):
online three or four dayslater. Why should I go to class and
get up at 8am and I'll justwatch it online? But in fact, why
do you go to professionalsporting event instead of watching
it on tv? It turns out thatthe environment is, is critical and
studies have shown this, whichI find amazing, is critical to in
fact the success of students.So being in the classroom and watching
(22:45):
the actual, the, the fellowstudents and your instructor to be
somehow closer, more engagedwith the instructor makes a difference.
And not only that, I mean, youcan. I still remember when one of
my instructors was asked aclass when I was an undergraduate
and the instructor doing that,you know, I remember the question
(23:07):
and I remember that criticalanswer that was given. That's not
something you're going to getfrom a recorded lecture. But the
other more critical thing toois Leanne, that small group environment
that is to engage in studiesin small groups, four, five or optimal
(23:28):
size is. Is has been shown tobe a wonderful environment for study
and for reflection and fordoing well in any type, of course.
And when you are actually inan audience and you see people around
you, you engage them inconversation. Before an actor lecture,
this often forms the nucleusof these friendship, potential friendships
(23:52):
and this small groupexperience that they meet for coffee.
They agree that, you know, onFridays at 11 o' clock we can actually
meet for coffee and discusswhat the professor meant about this
particular thing. And they'regreat for term tests and exam preparations
too. That's something youdon't get, of course, for the recorded
lecture.
When we talk about digitaltools, certainly AI is everywhere
(24:15):
and pervasive in every part ofsociety these days. In terms of academic
integrity and honesty. Thatcertainly enters the equation when
you talk about AI. What doparents and students need to know
in your estimation about vat?
Well, cheating in quotations,you know, has always been an issue.
(24:38):
I remember when I firststarted that the essays for hire
business was just gettingstarted. And I remember coming across
my first essay for hire. Ididn't know what the words meant,
let alone, I'm sure, what thisstudent, first year student meant
by it. And of course, forms ofpotential cheating have in fact got
(24:58):
more and more sophisticated.And things like AI, generative AI
are very helpful tools forresearch for study purposes, but
in fact they have theirlimitations. And plagiarism, that
is pawning off your work,someone else's efforts as your work
(25:19):
without proper attribution isbecoming so challenging for instructors.
I have a esteemed colleaguewho's won so many awards in just
this winter term, from Januarythrough April, he was giving an online
course, so a synchronouscourse where he had a lecture hour
and then assignments and eventests were done online. There was
(25:43):
massive cheating using AI,because if you're doing your test
on your laptop and the privacyof your home, you are not supposed
to in fact use someone else'sefforts. You supposed to use your.
What's in here a factor towrite and perform in this context.
And they found that a quarterof the class was charged with plagiarism,
(26:07):
essentially, or academicdishonesty. And so it's very, very
critical to try to understandwhat, of course we have to. What
is academic integrity? Theidea of it is you yourself who have
to perform, you yourself haveto in fact understand the material
(26:28):
and be, be able to in factshare these ideas and views in an
exam, in a test, even if it'sonly A multiple choice test. But
the idea that we can cheat,that we can get ahead this way is,
is, is only hurting the actualstudent herself or himself. Because
(26:49):
in the end, what are you goingto do if you get caught cheating?
For example, you can be notonly given an F in the course, but
if it's a second or thirdoffense, you would in fact be tossed
out of, out of schoolpotentially. And if you take a job
or you graduate and you take ajob and you are asked to perform
(27:11):
and you are not on top of yourgame type of thing that you should
have been with getting adiploma from this particular program,
you're actually hurtingyourself and you're hurting the university
itself, of course. So this issomething that we want to avoid.
We want to instill orinculcate ethics and academic integrity
(27:31):
from the earliest gradepossible and avoid plagiarism. Do
the work and work hard and dothe work. And that's what you, how
you get by at university, not cheating.
What would you say ProfessorDe Roberta's should be ideally the
role of a parent in first yearuniversity? We've talked about a
(27:53):
lot of different topics, butideally what should that role of
the parent look like?
Again, depending on the son ordaughter, I think there are some
times and occasions where youwant just to be the silent support
for them. I'm here. But alsothere are times when you want to
(28:14):
be actively, not justpassively supporting. Well, what
did you learn? Learn today I'mreally interested in this course
on geography and I always hadan interest in. Now you're achieving
my life's goal in taking thesecourses and trying to engage your
son or daughter in factdiscussions about their work. These
(28:39):
are really helpful things andyou can also, you know, probe them.
How's studying going? Is thereanything I can do that would help,
you know, allowing you to havemore time? Now they, they unfortunately
as, as time has gone by,students have had to work, do 15
(29:05):
and 20 hours worth of, of, ofnon academic work that is to earn
a little bit of money or tosupport themselves or their family.
This is a challenging,challenging of course situation where
you also have to devote somuch time to your studies and to
your academics and then youalso have to work two or three nights
(29:26):
a week and perhaps one day onthe weekend. So anything that's,
that parents can do toameliorate, you know, some of these,
these pressures and challengesto allow their son or daughter to
focus more on their studiesand to be engaged in helping them
by expressing, you know,interest in their studies and Discussing
things with them is, is, Ithink a really good plan.
(29:48):
We're almost out of town, butI do have two questions that I wanted
to ask you. You've got twosons in their early 20s. How much
of what you have developed inthese videos and the tools that you've
produced did you use with yourown sons, having all the experience
that you do as an educator andas a parent?
(30:09):
I soon learned and my wife isa much more dedicated and accomplished
educator than I am in thiscontext. And although she can't do
physics, she will say, youcan't teach your own children. And
I learned soon on that is my,my, my. You know, one can point them
(30:30):
in the right direction, butthey have to learn. Some of them
are more stubborn, hard headedthan even their father. And they
try to do it on their own, butalways the, the opportunity was there,
the interest was there, theopportunity, if you need any assistance,
just let me know what are youstudying now? That kind of thing.
(30:52):
But there seemed to be a planin their heads that they would not
ask their mom or dadspecifically about academics. And
they had a couple of roughterms, but they learned in the end
that when we work together, itturned out to be a much more pleasant
and edifying experience.
(31:13):
Is there a piece of advice,maybe a couple of pieces of advice
that you'd give to a parentwhose child is about to enter university
in terms like top line tip forthem to consider?
Yes, I really think you knowyour son or daughter very well. You
know, what's intrusive, whatisn't. I do not be passive, do not
(31:37):
wait till the end of term tobe engaged. But, but try to, through
very gentle terms, try totease out, you know, try to tease
out exactly how their term isgoing, what they're learning about,
profess an interest, even ifyou don't have an interest in their
various subjects, but alsoencourage their professional transferable
(32:02):
skills. So what that means isthat all courses try to teach critical
thinking to be engaged in whatthe arguments are, how do you assemble
the information, how do yousift the information, how do you
in fact come to a conclusionbased on the evidence that is logical
and rational, for whatreasons? So the idea of enhancing
(32:25):
critical thinking skills andthe idea also of improving and enhancing
their written, oral anddigital images or footprints or communication
skills is essential. That'swhat all courses now, or what the
program, what the faculty, orwhat the university, all programs
try to build up these criticalthinking skills and it's these skills
(32:49):
that they take out into theworking world, whatever that may
be. And also I also stronglysuggest that some students at the
end of first year find thattheir major, perhaps that they signed
up for in grade 12, wasn'texactly what they had anticipated.
(33:10):
They actually found perhapsthis program, which they took some
elective courses in, isactually much more interesting and
the original was a bitpedantic or too simple, too hard,
whatever. And to encourage,then you can make slight turns, even
sharp 90 degree turns, andstill fare very, very well at university.
(33:33):
So encourage students topursue their interests as well, because
studies have shown it's notrocket science, that if you in fact
are taking a subject that youreally like, you're really engaged
and you're going to do better.And I think that's the kind of thing
that you want to encourage aswell. And always be there in the
(33:56):
highs and the lows. You canalways talk to me about it, or just
may at the very end say Thereare lots of resources at Universe
10, particularly the facultyadvisor. So many students never talk
to their faculty advisor, butthat's a key, key resource that universities
have. They know what's goingto get you there. They know how you
(34:19):
perform. They know what itrequires to get to the next level.
They know what the resourcesare in a university that you may
never have even heard of. Usethese resources, use your faculty
advisor and talk to yourlecturers. Not like me. Talk to your
lecturers if you havequestions, outstanding questions
(34:40):
that you can't answer.
So much to know and what isdefinitely an exciting time in a
young person's life. ProfessorMichael De Robertis, retired Professor
of Physics and Astronomy fromYork University. We so appreciate
your time and your insighttoday. Thank you so much.
Thank you, Lianne, forallowing me the opportunity.
(35:03):
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health of your tween teen oryoung adult through proven expert
(00:21):
advice. Here's your host,Leanne Castellino. Welcome to Where
Parents Talk. My name isLianne Castelino. Our guest today
is a professor emeritus fromYork University. Professor Michael
De Robertis was a professor ofphysics and astronomy for over 35
years, carrying out originalresearch in astrophysics and astronomy.
(00:46):
He has also contributed toundergraduate and graduate student
teaching and supervision andhas served in many administrative
roles. Professor De Robertisrecently produced a series of videos
to help students and familiesanswer the key academic and administrative
questions that they mayencounter in the first year of university.
(01:07):
Professor De Robertis is alsoa father of two and he joins us today
from Toronto. Reallyappreciate you taking the time.
My pleasure.
You certainly have all kindsof experience with students in this
age group, given yourbackground, but I wonder what made
you feel compelled to developthis video series and the documents
(01:29):
to help parents and studentsheading into their first year of
university?
Well, Lianne, I had and I justretired. I had initially made some
content via videos onastronomy and astrophysics, but then
it came to me when I reviewedmy career how how many challenges
(01:54):
that students in my first yearthrough fourth year classes faced
that involved academic andadministrative challenges and they
tripped on some of thesethings and had they been aware of
them and possible solutionsand strategies to get around them
or through them, it would havemade their lives much, much better.
(02:18):
I think as an undergraduatestudent, and it all starts at first
year, I might say that I'm notwith a faculty of education or anything
like that. I'm very much inthe trenches and it's my observations
that I tried to address inmaking this video and the supplemental
documentation.
So certainly no shortage ofthings for people to know. How did
(02:39):
you go about parsing throughall that information to get to the
basic important points thatyou thought they should know?
Well, interestingly enough,university faculty, those who are
in the classroom, both onlineand person to person, face to face,
(02:59):
we have been encouraged on ourown and through our senior administration
to make the connection withundergraduate students much stronger.
It used to be that coursedescriptions in the syllabi or the
synopsis that you'd receivewhen you're choosing your courses
(03:20):
was a few sent long and that'sall you got. And then even on your
first class they would mumblea few things so that his faculty
would mumble a Few thingsabout how the course was going to
be addressed, but it becamemore and more formal and this was
really helpful for students.And I had been involved in this process
through the faculty of scienceat my university at York University,
(03:43):
but I had colleagues all overthe place that shared these experiences
with me and I thought hadgotten to a point where I almost
had everything already in mysynopsis and syllabi. So why not
actually address students whoare going into first year prospective
(04:05):
students, university students?After all, 60% of Canadian high school
graduates go to either collegeor university. So a significant fraction
end up in university. And someof them have experiences that, shall
we say, aren't the mostpleasant because they've tripped
on something that, that, thatcould have been ameliorated, it could
(04:26):
have been addressed in a videoand a document. And so that's why
I have done that and that'swhat compelled me. It's pretty well
all there. I think I'll justput it together in a video.
So then, from your experience,what would you say are the biggest
differences between highschool and university that parents
(04:46):
would often underestimate?
University is significantly,or I would say radically different
from high school. So it's notjust grades 13, 14, 15 and 16. As
an undergraduate, studentsvery early on realize that they're
(05:06):
in a class of potentiallydozens to hundreds of students. And
there are reasons for verylarge introductory classes, which
invariably is the first yearclass size. No matter what university
you attend, even smalleruniversities will still have a class
size of 150 to 250. And inlarger universities such as University
(05:29):
of Toronto, York University,for example, University of Montreal,
you're in for hundreds andseveral hundred sometimes. And the,
so that's, that's immediatelyradically different. And then you
soon find out that thelecturer, the teacher, the professor
doesn't really care that youshow up. You could sleep through
(05:52):
all their lectures and getthem online, or as long as you hand
in your assignments, show upfor your term tests and finally exams,
that's all they expect of you.That's radically different, I'm told,
from talking with high schoolstudents in first year classes all
the way through my career. Imean, in high school they care about
(06:16):
who you are and, and they,they want to make sure that you know,
any issues are addressed. Sothe idea that you know, you have
great personal autonomy atuniversities, you're on your own
to a large extent now, thereis a great deal of assistance that
is available, but as muchthat's what I tried to fold in in
(06:39):
my videos, that is, thereThere are resources that can help
students. In fact, even in thesummer prior to entering first year
university, there areresources that universities now produce
called, you know, transitionresources that help students make
that transition. To someextent that. But there are also resources
(07:01):
throughout first year thathelp students if they stumble for
one reason or another. And soit is, I think, that idea that you're
on your own and you needreally to manage your own time, to
manage your affairs verycarefully, because you have five
(07:21):
courses, essentially two tothree hours a week, lecture times,
some lab times, otherconstraints on, you know, your, your
time. And you need to managethis very, very carefully if, if
you're to get it all done. Andthe temptations are there to pull
you away from doing thelecture material to studying, to
(07:44):
prepare for your assignmentsis there too, because you have new
friends, you have newdistractions. And in fact, you now
are not just walking to schoolor traveling on public transportation.
In a few minutes ride, you'reactually going to a campus largely
unless you're in residence andyou know you're there for the whole
(08:06):
day. Are you going to make useof your time in the libraries, in
small study carrels, that kindof thing. So it needs a great deal
of thought to get the most outof your time at university.
That level of independence forsome students, certainly today, when
we factor in that there'sstill a lot of helicopter parenting
(08:27):
going on, and parentscertainly to a large degree, many
of them micromanaging whattheir kids do and don't do, that
level of independence can beoverwhelming for the average student.
What can you say to a parentwho is in this situation about how
they could potentially easetheir, that transition for their
(08:48):
child?
That's a difficult question.And of course it depends on each
individual son or daughter.But first of all, on a logistical
level, traveling to campus,getting familiar with the campus
the whole family can walkaround, find your lecture halls.
(09:09):
This is where so and so yourdaughter's going to be your lecturer.
This is where your son isgoing to be doing his lab. And it's
very, very helpful for thewhole maybe to tour and you won't
be embarrassed because youwon't run into anyone else. Also
taking advantage of thesetransition programs. And there are
(09:29):
programs that can help evensmall universities have these programs
typically help you write alittle better, help you communicate
a little better. But I want toreally emphasize that there are transition
programs in the STEM fields.So science, technology, engineering,
math fields where the languageof communication in STEM is mathematics.
(09:53):
And so many students, even Astudents and B plus students, in
high school sometimes faceserious challenges in their disciplines
when they reach university.And to be able to speak the language
of mathematics really helps tosmooth that transition. And it has.
(10:16):
These transition programs inSTEM mathematics have been tested
now for over a decade in manyof the larger universities such as
York and the University ofToronto. And they find that students,
even students who think theyknow math very well, go into these
math transition programs.These are usually intensive four
(10:38):
days a week, six hours a day.Those students who go through these
programs, even if they had anA in and a B or in high school in
math, they do perceptibly wella half a letter grade, sometimes
even a whole letter gradebetter, not just in math, but in
their science courses allaround. So it really demonstrably
(11:01):
helps. So taking advantage ofthis transition programs are really
good. But I also think thereare other issues. The idea of encouraging
time management skills, askingyour son or daughter not just how
things are going, but discussacademic related matters, what do
(11:25):
you think of this and why,that kind of thing. So to encourage
time management skills, theability to discuss and to martial
evidence based answers, I, Iknow that sounds a bit formal, but
just taking it up one notch toencourage your son or daughter to
(11:46):
start that conversation at alittle higher level so that when
they hit the ground inSeptember, they hit the ground at
least walking, if not running,because we'll talk, I'm sure, about
critical thinking skills andprofessional transferable skills,
which are really key.
Absolutely. Before we get tothat, I do want to ask you because
for some kids, you know, justthe thought of making that big step
(12:10):
and maybe not feeling preparedor self assured is already putting
them behind the eight ball andmaybe having them question the why
of why am I going touniversity in the first place. So
is there something that youcan say to parents to help them help
their child clarify that whyas to why they're heading to post
secondary?
(12:32):
Yes, I think perhaps a littlesimplistically in the video and in
the document I sort ofcharacterize sort of three groups
of high school graduatingstudents. So one group has known
for forever Tensorprofessional programs and they know
(12:55):
what they want and they knowhow to get it. And that's wonderful.
So there are people who, youknow, enter university for specific
reasons and have, are laserfocused on succeeding and that's
wonderful. There are otherstudents though, and I think perhaps
it's a majority, it'sarguable, who don't really know what
(13:16):
they want to do. Their bestfriends or friends are also going
off to university. They haveheard that, you know, if you get
a undergraduate degree, youusually earn more money per cap per
year. And, but by and large,they're not ready or willing or whatever
to enter the worker careerworld yet. And that's fine. That's
(13:42):
fine. But they lack, I think,a deeper motivation which I think
the third group of studentshas, and that is the motivation you're
going to university to learnwhat the most brilliant and incisive
and interesting peoplethroughout history and at this moment
(14:04):
have said about variousissues, issues that impact us as
human beings are to satisfyour curiosities in psychology and
physics, in the languages andsociolog. What have people said all
across the world in variouscultures that in fact help us learn
(14:30):
more about who we areindividually and who we are as a
community. And that communitycould be nation and even the world.
So I think the I, and that'sthe, the group, by the way, that
most professors like to teachto these person, the folks who are
really interested just soakingup the, the, the information, not
just the information, but thereason people thinking this way throughout
(14:54):
history and what differentviews have been put forward for various
cultures and varioussocieties. The ability to be able
to listen, to learn and toargue in a comprehensive way is really,
really helpful.
You alluded to discipline andtime management earlier, and I wonder
(15:17):
if we could unpack that alittle bit because I think you could
argue that those two conceptsor things that, that are part of
a lifelong journey for most ofus trying to constantly hone, you
know, how to be betterdisciplined and better use, use our
time. But what can you say toparents in terms of any practical
tips that they couldpotentially offer to that child entering
(15:39):
university in advance of themheading off?
Yes, that's. That, that, thatis a challenge, of course, particularly
in the summer where, you know,students are not going to school
and they expect the reins notto be as tight at course, but I think
perhaps just engaging indiscussions, a variety of discussions,
(16:05):
not necessarily politics, butwhat do you think of this particular
idea? Someone has talked aboutthis and, you know, just encouraging
your son or daughter to, Ithink just weigh in on the various
issues and not just this iswhat I think about it, but why that
kind of thing. So there's,there's this type of issue, but I
(16:28):
also think the idea of timemanagement is critical and I'm sure
we'll get more into that andif there are ways of maybe, maybe
suggesting that, you know, ata certain time on the weekend we
might have just a familyconversation about anything that
you found interesting this dayand Once students get into university,
if they live at home askingthem not just about how was your
(16:52):
day and of course my boyswould say good and that's all you
get out of them but actuallytrying to tease out of them you know,
what kind of what did theylearn today? What impact is their
day to day education. Havingto share that with the family, with
their brothers and sistersperhaps at home. So I think and trying
(17:13):
to time management is more ofa logistical issue as we'll get into
but any, anything parents cando to, to really help get students
more organized and slightlymore disciplined because that's critical
to succeeding at university.
So then in an ideal state asan educator when should time management
(17:36):
skills let's call them at homereally be introduced and honed at
what age in advance of postsecondary.
Yeah, the, the reason thatthat time management is, is so important
is be that are are vying foryou are competing for your attention
(18:00):
at university. You know, soand so the night before a term test
they want to go out to a club.No, no, I, I, I really have to study
this evening. And moreimportantly actually there are strategies
that allow you to beintelligently lazy. So in the end
in fact you don't have tospend as much time for example studying
(18:23):
for exams and tests if you aterm keeping up with the stuff, keeping
up with the lectures, thatkind of thing, reviewing your materials.
So that's very important. Buttime, time. So time management skills
are essential to succeed andany way that parents can somehow
(18:47):
inculcate this into thechildren the better. I really have
unfortunately not great ideashere but it's anything that creatively
that they can think ofcertainly once they get to university
having their sons anddaughters right at their schedules
very clearly and checking inon them. I know it's a little difficult
(19:11):
because independence is thereis being sought but just checking
in, making sure don't leave itto the end of term to ask your son
or daughter how are thingsgoing? Take weekly interest in it
and there'll be certain weeksthat they won't want to talk because
they're so engaged in theirstudies. But there are other weeks,
(19:31):
most weeks maybe 10 out of the12 weeks where they are approachable
and I think that's the time totry to engage them little by little.
We talked about the why for astudent why are they entering post
secondary an academicinstitution. But let's talk about
a student's sense of purposeand how would you say that that affects
(19:55):
their resilience and theiracademic performance especially during
those sort of challengingfirst terms post secondary.
Yes, if I think it's mycolleagues, social scientists and
sociologists and in fact it'spretty common sense that folks that,
that had meaning and purposein their lives, a big subject, you
(20:20):
know, tend to, tend to farebetter psychologically just in general.
So meaning and purpose arecritical and that's why to get, I
think a proper motivation toenter into university. And even though
there'll be lows, but there'llbe highs as well throughout the term.
And I think keeping, keepingthe, I think your attention focused
(20:48):
on, on the final goalessentially which is doing well in
a course and learning as muchactively. That is really the critical
element. And so that's whyit's important to list to have a
schedule to keep to theschedule to be disciplined and. But
(21:12):
in fact making it very clearthat this night, this time is set
for studies. This time is formy labs, this time is for my assignments
and this time on the weekendis for maybe going somewhere with
friends and family.
We live in a world ofsynchronous and asynchronous learning,
all kinds of digital toolsthat are for the most part aimed
(21:35):
at making things moreefficient and helpful. But why is
physical presence in a classstill so essential and especially
in the first term at university?
This is a critical questionbecause I've seen so many students
at the beginning of term theycome to class and they are amazed
(21:58):
that this is just grade 12 allover again in physics or in literature
and, and then you come to thesecond class and they see the same
effect. Well, maybe I don'thave to come to class since the class
is being video recorded andthe, the instructor makes it available
(22:19):
online three or four dayslater. Why should I go to class and
get up at 8am and I'll justwatch it online? But in fact, why
do you go to professionalsporting event instead of watching
it on tv? It turns out thatthe environment is, is critical and
studies have shown this, whichI find amazing, is critical to in
fact the success of students.So being in the classroom and watching
(22:45):
the actual, the, the fellowstudents and your instructor to be
somehow closer, more engagedwith the instructor makes a difference.
And not only that, I mean, youcan. I still remember when one of
my instructors was asked aclass when I was an undergraduate
and the instructor doing that,you know, I remember the question
(23:07):
and I remember that criticalanswer that was given. That's not
something you're going to getfrom a recorded lecture. But the
other more critical thing toois Leanne, that small group environment
that is to engage in studiesin small groups, four, five or optimal
(23:28):
size is. Is has been shown tobe a wonderful environment for study
and for reflection and fordoing well in any type, of course.
And when you are actually inan audience and you see people around
you, you engage them inconversation. Before an actor lecture,
this often forms the nucleusof these friendship, potential friendships
(23:52):
and this small groupexperience that they meet for coffee.
They agree that, you know, onFridays at 11 o' clock we can actually
meet for coffee and discusswhat the professor meant about this
particular thing. And they'regreat for term tests and exam preparations
too. That's something youdon't get, of course, for the recorded
lecture.
When we talk about digitaltools, certainly AI is everywhere
(24:15):
and pervasive in every part ofsociety these days. In terms of academic
integrity and honesty. Thatcertainly enters the equation when
you talk about AI. What doparents and students need to know
in your estimation about vat?
Well, cheating in quotations,you know, has always been an issue.
(24:38):
I remember when I firststarted that the essays for hire
business was just gettingstarted. And I remember coming across
my first essay for hire. Ididn't know what the words meant,
let alone, I'm sure, what thisstudent, first year student meant
by it. And of course, forms ofpotential cheating have in fact got
(24:58):
more and more sophisticated.And things like AI, generative AI
are very helpful tools forresearch for study purposes, but
in fact they have theirlimitations. And plagiarism, that
is pawning off your work,someone else's efforts as your work
(25:19):
without proper attribution isbecoming so challenging for instructors.
I have a esteemed colleaguewho's won so many awards in just
this winter term, from Januarythrough April, he was giving an online
course, so a synchronouscourse where he had a lecture hour
and then assignments and eventests were done online. There was
(25:43):
massive cheating using AI,because if you're doing your test
on your laptop and the privacyof your home, you are not supposed
to in fact use someone else'sefforts. You supposed to use your.
What's in here a factor towrite and perform in this context.
And they found that a quarterof the class was charged with plagiarism,
(26:07):
essentially, or academicdishonesty. And so it's very, very
critical to try to understandwhat, of course we have to. What
is academic integrity? Theidea of it is you yourself who have
to perform, you yourself haveto in fact understand the material
(26:28):
and be, be able to in factshare these ideas and views in an
exam, in a test, even if it'sonly A multiple choice test. But
the idea that we can cheat,that we can get ahead this way is,
is, is only hurting the actualstudent herself or himself. Because
(26:49):
in the end, what are you goingto do if you get caught cheating?
For example, you can be notonly given an F in the course, but
if it's a second or thirdoffense, you would in fact be tossed
out of, out of schoolpotentially. And if you take a job
or you graduate and you take ajob and you are asked to perform
(27:11):
and you are not on top of yourgame type of thing that you should
have been with getting adiploma from this particular program,
you're actually hurtingyourself and you're hurting the university
itself, of course. So this issomething that we want to avoid.
We want to instill orinculcate ethics and academic integrity
(27:31):
from the earliest gradepossible and avoid plagiarism. Do
the work and work hard and dothe work. And that's what you, how
you get by at university, not cheating.
What would you say ProfessorDe Roberta's should be ideally the
role of a parent in first yearuniversity? We've talked about a
(27:53):
lot of different topics, butideally what should that role of
the parent look like?
Again, depending on the son ordaughter, I think there are some
times and occasions where youwant just to be the silent support
for them. I'm here. But alsothere are times when you want to
(28:14):
be actively, not justpassively supporting. Well, what
did you learn? Learn today I'mreally interested in this course
on geography and I always hadan interest in. Now you're achieving
my life's goal in taking thesecourses and trying to engage your
son or daughter in factdiscussions about their work. These
(28:39):
are really helpful things andyou can also, you know, probe them.
How's studying going? Is thereanything I can do that would help,
you know, allowing you to havemore time? Now they, they unfortunately
as, as time has gone by,students have had to work, do 15
(29:05):
and 20 hours worth of, of, ofnon academic work that is to earn
a little bit of money or tosupport themselves or their family.
This is a challenging,challenging of course situation where
you also have to devote somuch time to your studies and to
your academics and then youalso have to work two or three nights
(29:26):
a week and perhaps one day onthe weekend. So anything that's,
that parents can do toameliorate, you know, some of these,
these pressures and challengesto allow their son or daughter to
focus more on their studiesand to be engaged in helping them
by expressing, you know,interest in their studies and Discussing
things with them is, is, Ithink a really good plan.
(29:48):
We're almost out of town, butI do have two questions that I wanted
to ask you. You've got twosons in their early 20s. How much
of what you have developed inthese videos and the tools that you've
produced did you use with yourown sons, having all the experience
that you do as an educator andas a parent?
(30:09):
I soon learned and my wife isa much more dedicated and accomplished
educator than I am in thiscontext. And although she can't do
physics, she will say, youcan't teach your own children. And
I learned soon on that is my,my, my. You know, one can point them
(30:30):
in the right direction, butthey have to learn. Some of them
are more stubborn, hard headedthan even their father. And they
try to do it on their own, butalways the, the opportunity was there,
the interest was there, theopportunity, if you need any assistance,
just let me know what are youstudying now? That kind of thing.
(30:52):
But there seemed to be a planin their heads that they would not
ask their mom or dadspecifically about academics. And
they had a couple of roughterms, but they learned in the end
that when we work together, itturned out to be a much more pleasant
and edifying experience.
(31:13):
Is there a piece of advice,maybe a couple of pieces of advice
that you'd give to a parentwhose child is about to enter university
in terms like top line tip forthem to consider?
Yes, I really think you knowyour son or daughter very well. You
know, what's intrusive, whatisn't. I do not be passive, do not
(31:37):
wait till the end of term tobe engaged. But, but try to, through
very gentle terms, try totease out, you know, try to tease
out exactly how their term isgoing, what they're learning about,
profess an interest, even ifyou don't have an interest in their
various subjects, but alsoencourage their professional transferable
(32:02):
skills. So what that means isthat all courses try to teach critical
thinking to be engaged in whatthe arguments are, how do you assemble
the information, how do yousift the information, how do you
in fact come to a conclusionbased on the evidence that is logical
and rational, for whatreasons? So the idea of enhancing
(32:25):
critical thinking skills andthe idea also of improving and enhancing
their written, oral anddigital images or footprints or communication
skills is essential. That'swhat all courses now, or what the
program, what the faculty, orwhat the university, all programs
try to build up these criticalthinking skills and it's these skills
(32:49):
that they take out into theworking world, whatever that may
be. And also I also stronglysuggest that some students at the
end of first year find thattheir major, perhaps that they signed
up for in grade 12, wasn'texactly what they had anticipated.
(33:10):
They actually found perhapsthis program, which they took some
elective courses in, isactually much more interesting and
the original was a bitpedantic or too simple, too hard,
whatever. And to encourage,then you can make slight turns, even
sharp 90 degree turns, andstill fare very, very well at university.
(33:33):
So encourage students topursue their interests as well, because
studies have shown it's notrocket science, that if you in fact
are taking a subject that youreally like, you're really engaged
and you're going to do better.And I think that's the kind of thing
that you want to encourage aswell. And always be there in the
(33:56):
highs and the lows. You canalways talk to me about it, or just
may at the very end say Thereare lots of resources at Universe
10, particularly the facultyadvisor. So many students never talk
to their faculty advisor, butthat's a key, key resource that universities
have. They know what's goingto get you there. They know how you
(34:19):
perform. They know what itrequires to get to the next level.
They know what the resourcesare in a university that you may
never have even heard of. Usethese resources, use your faculty
advisor and talk to yourlecturers. Not like me. Talk to your
lecturers if you havequestions, outstanding questions
(34:40):
that you can't answer.
So much to know and what isdefinitely an exciting time in a
young person's life. ProfessorMichael De Robertis, retired Professor
of Physics and Astronomy fromYork University. We so appreciate
your time and your insighttoday. Thank you so much.
Thank you, Lianne, forallowing me the opportunity.
(35:03):
To learn more about today'spodcast, guest and topic, as well
as other parenting themes.Visit whereparentstalk.com.
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