June 14, 2025 • 28 mins
What does it mean to be an engaged father today? In this episode of the Where Parents Talk podcast, host Lianne Castelino explores the evolving role of dads in raising emotionally grounded boys amidst toxic masculinity, social media, and shifting family dynamics, with guest Drew Soleyn.
A leadership coach, speaker, Director of Dad Central Ontario and founder of Connected Dads, Soleyn unpacks the real challenges fathers face, from managing hormonal changes and digital distractions to fostering independence and navigating peer pressure. Soleyn, a father of five emphasizes why emotional well-being, healthy communication, and modelling consent are key pillars of modern fatherhood.
Key Takeaways:
Why open communication is critical during hormonal shifts
How device use and social media affect boys' mental health
The impact of toxic masculinity—and how fathers can counter it
Strategies for setting boundaries, building resilience, and encouraging independence
The importance of modelling self-care and healthy relationshipsLinks referenced in this episode:
This podcast is for parents, guardians, teachers and caregivers to learn proven strategies and trusted tips on raising kids, teens and young adults based on science, evidenced and lived experience.
You’ll learn the latest on topics like managing bullying, consent, fostering healthy relationships, and the interconnectedness of mental, emotional and physical health.
Links referenced in this episode:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Foreign.
Welcome to the Where ParentsTalk podcast. We help grow better
parents through science,evidence, and the lived experience
of other parents. Learn how tobetter navigate the mental and physical
health of your tween teen oryoung adult through proven expert
(00:21):
advice. Here's your host,Lianne Castelino.
How do we raise emotionallygrounded, resilient boys in a digital
age flooded with toxicmasculinity, identity confusion,
and the ever growing influenceof the manosphere? Welcome to Where
Parents Talk. My name isLianne Castelino. Our guest today
(00:42):
is a leadership coach, aspeaker, and a personal trainer.
Drew Soleyn is also thefounder of Connected Dads and director
of dad Central Ontario. He isa father of five and he joins us
today from Kingston, Ontario.Great to have you, Drew. Thanks for
joining us.
Well, thank you so much,Lianne. I'm honored to be here.
(01:03):
I'd like to start, if I could,with a bit of your lived experience
from your childhood. Certainlysomething that most of us can hardly
imagine. You were abducted byyour father as a child, and I wonder
how that early trauma hasshaped, if at all, the way that you
understand fatherhood today.
(01:25):
Yeah, maybe not your typicalchildhood or start. And in terms
of shaping it, absolutely. Ithink if you've reviewed any of my
website, you would have seen Ihave a phrase turning pain into purpose.
And so when I was about tobecome a dad, you know, the experience
that I had in my childhood wasvery prominent on my mind and, and
(01:47):
I would say I almost feltcompelled to talk about it, whereas
before I remember having ashort conversation with my mom, I
was probably 18. You know,she's a fantastic mom. Obviously
worked as hard as she could tosupport me to heal and recover from
that experience and had alwaysfocused on my, you know, I'll say
my well being, mentally,emotionally, spiritually, of course,
(02:08):
is my physical well being. Andshe asked me a question, she said,
drew, can we talk about thisexperience? We'd never talked about
it much, and at that point, at18, I said, no, what do we need to
talk about it for? It was inthe past. It's done. The only reason
I ever want to talk about momis if it could help somebody. And
so fast forward to becoming adad. I think the most important person
(02:30):
I need to help at that timewas me because, you know, with my
desire to be the most present,available, loving, kind parent, I
just felt that I needed, Ineeded to just share it with others
and not again from a place of,hey, here's what's going on for me.
(02:51):
But it's so important to me asa dad. So it shaped it in terms of
I always knew that I wanted tobe a different type of father, and
I always wanted, Knew. Knewthat I wanted my children to have
a very different experiencegrowing up than what I had growing
up. So it was, I'd say,foundational to shaping my perspective
as a father.
(03:12):
So what was the tipping pointthen, Drew, in terms of turning that
pain into purpose for you?
Hmm. I would have to say whenmy son was born, so he's our third
child, and, you know, lifejust got really challenging at the
(03:32):
time. My wife had just made atough decision to sell her business.
That had been a dream thatshe'd been, you know, running for
about four or five, five, I'dsay, years at that time, you know,
I had just been put into a newrole at work. Career pivot was being,
you know, pointed to asproviding significant leadership.
(03:53):
And then we had some familychallenges. We had. My grandmother
died and then an untimelydeath in my ex wife's family. Her
uncle died suddenly. And solife just really hit hard. And I
found myself really doingeverything I could to hold the family
(04:14):
together, to serve the needsof the children, to serve the needs
of my wife, and to, you know,just continue to lead and do well
at work. And I think I wascaring way too much. So the tipping
point was recognizing thatI'm. I'm. I can't handle all this.
And what happened is that itwould show up at home, right? I would
(04:36):
be impatient, I would beintolerant, and there was just a
lot of pain that I wasexperiencing at home. And I didn't
really have a way to. Anoutlet for it. I didn't have a way
to process it that felt likeit provided any form of relief. It
just felt heavier and heavier.So I'd say the tipping point was
life crashing down andrecognizing that needs to be something
more here.
(04:56):
There will be many parents wholisten to and watch this interview
who can relate to what youjust described, Drew. And you have
the fortune of, you know,supporting many dads who are maybe
in that category themselves interms of what you do with dad central
and connected dads. So whatkind of trends, if any, are you noticing
(05:18):
with respect to what dads aretelling you about, just in general?
Yeah, that's a fair question.And, you know, every dad's story
is going to be a little bitdifferent, but I'd say there are.
There are three common thingsthat typically come up. So right
now, in this age oftechnology, you know, screens are
a challenge I think for anyparent at any agent stage, but especially
(05:39):
in this sort of tween andearly teen stage screens and how
do you handle that and how doyou relate to your children? How
do you work with this screen?I think many parents I don't know,
but may have just given up,not, not sure how to approach it.
That's one. I think fathersare always feeling stretched, they're
feeling pulled in manydifferent directions and I think
(06:01):
there's many layers to that.But essentially it's how do you take
care of all theseresponsibilities and how do you then
care for yourself at the sametime so that you can show up the
way you want to and not feellike you're letting someone down
somewhere. And I think theother trend I would say is that,
you know, fathers are, arewanting, are seeking resources and
(06:27):
support but are stillstruggling to find places and spaces
that really recognize theirheart of wanting to be a father,
of wanting to be a good dad.They're still viewed with as you
opened up in, you know, thisidea of some of the toxic masculinity
or some of these other waysthat you know, have traditionally
how fathers might have beenviewed but are not how fathers today
(06:48):
want to be viewed or want toactually the heart behind how they
want to be parents.
You touched on a lot there.And I wonder, you know, when you
talk about dads who their selfcare, like a lot of moms, ends up
taking a backseat if at all onthe priority list, what do you say
(07:09):
to them in terms of how tosupport them and maybe alter a bit
of their mindset around theimportance of self care error before
you, you know, parent really?
Yeah, I think the conversationreally goes more to the place of
how do you regulate youremotions in the face of these constant
(07:30):
demands and challenges so thatyou can show up in the moments in
the way that you want to showup. Because I think it shows up for
fathers in intolerance,impatience. You know, sometimes the
yelling, the raising the voiceand most dads don't want to, but
it's literally because it'slike the straw that broke the camel's
back, right? You know, you'recarrying all that you're carrying,
you're at home, the kid andyour children continue to maybe do
(07:53):
something that is not alignedwith and it just something somebody
comes and so what the selfcare is more about how do you regulate,
regulate those emotions, howdo you regulate your needs and find
I would say micro moments tobe able to re engage with yourself,
to be able to process what youneed to process so that you can show
(08:13):
up in that moment. So, youknow, simply making sure that you
are breathing, that you are inthose moments. You are, if you need
to, you are removing yourself,you're taking a moment, you're establishing
healthy boundaries. Some ofthat is, I think, more helpful for
followers. Practical,tangible, moment by moment, in those
periods where you would tripup. That's where I think the focus
(08:34):
ends up being more forfollowers and also being, I think,
practical and helpful for thembecause generally they can carry
the load and they can perform.But at the same time, it's. It's
the ability to take thosemoments, to reconnect with themselves
and support themselves, whichisn't seen as the, you know, taking
a day off or going off withyour buddies. And I think that is
(08:56):
important, maybe we'll touchon it later, is the ability to have
strong, close, connectedcommunity or friendships. That's
very important and powerful too.
Certainly every age and stageof a child's life presents, you know,
wonderful rewards andincredible challenges in terms of
parenting. When we talk aboutadolescence, there's no shortage
(09:16):
of challenges. I wonder whyyou think that so many fathers feel
a lack of confidence and tendto struggle in their role when their
kids are in those tween teenand adolescent years.
Yeah, I mean, as I said, everystory is a little bit different.
I think there are someobservations both from me personally,
(09:37):
but also in, you know, doingthe work that we do, depending on
the context. Sometimes fathersaren't as involved when the children
are younger and they haven'tdeveloped some of the skills in terms
of relating and engaging withtheir children in ways that are maybe
as helpful or as productive tobuilding a strong relationship or
(09:57):
as a more connectedrelationship. And sometimes again,
in the teen agent, adolescentagent stage, you know, there's. There's
another element which I. I'mexperiencing myself is I see my children
growing independent, which isexcellent. I love that. But there's
also truly an emotionalletting go of that happens because
I'm not needed as maybe as Iwas before. Or I see my children
(10:19):
going in, making decisionsthat maybe I wouldn't want them to
make those decisions. But theyare getting to the age of stage where
they're able to make moreindependent choices. And so there's
an emotional element of.That's hard. That's hard as a parent,
and many dads may not be fullyaware of that. But I mean, I'm talking
about it because this is whatI'm going through now too. And so
I recognize how that hasimpacted me and My willingness or
(10:42):
ability to be able to engageand relate to my daughters in ways
that is more from a place ofcuriosity and understanding as opposed
to the directing andcorrecting. We'll say, right where
this is how you do it, this iswhat you should be doing. Why are
you doing those types ofthings? And so I think I'm off track
a little bit. But the. Themain element, I think, actually,
(11:02):
can you remind me question?
Well, it was really about, youknow, when dads, kind of, many of
them lose their confidence,right. Their kids are in the adolescent
stage.
So I think there's an elementof. Because you haven't built up
that skill early on, it'sharder at this age and stage because
of what I just described. Someof the emotions you're experiencing,
plus the children's growingindependence. And there's sometimes
(11:26):
friction in choices thatteenagers want to make, choices that
may not align with your viewsor your values as a parent. And the
other element is sometimes,again, back to the skill is the ability
to listen effectively orunderstand how to relate to children
who are going through thisvery important but also very challenging
developmental stagephysically, emotionally. Right. You're
(11:50):
seeing significant changes.And sometimes that's not easy for
dads especially. And I've gotdaughters, so some of the emotional
experiences of daughters istremendously challenging for, well,
say me, who is a little bitmore logic, reason based and that
significant emotionalfluctuations can be hard to. So how
(12:12):
do you work through that? Howdo you relate to that? And how do
you do it in a way that yourdaughters and sons feel seen, heard,
and understood? So I thinkthat's. That's a real challenge.
So on that note, Drew, like,how did you do it and how do you
do it in terms of so many ofthe things that you just talked about,
not the least of which is thefact that you, you know, your early
(12:33):
childhood experience with yourdad, like, you didn't presumably
have that role model that youcould then turn to.
A lot of work, a lot oflearning, a lot of making mistakes
and then recognizing themistakes, repairing the relationships
(12:54):
from the mistakes that havebeen made, and re entering and trying
again based off of newlearning. You know, that old adage
of, you know, learn somethingnew, unlearn the old bad habit, and
then relearn new ways tointegrate the two. And so that's
really the process. It takes alot of work. And back to the idea
of feeling stretched. Youknow, sometimes dads don't focus
(13:18):
on that as an important aspectof their own growth and development.
And that's where they justresort to old patterns or resort
to maybe influences that maynot be as valuable for actually building
a stronger relationship. Andthen they just say, well, I'm going
to do that. And it continuesto maybe not yield the results are
looking for. And then I thinkyou get frustrated, you get discouraged,
(13:41):
and then you also feel like,well, forget about it. I'm just going
to let you know, mom orsomebody else or, or deal with it.
I don't know that many dadsdid, but sometimes that does happen.
You have certainly at thispoint presumably supported many dads
who found themselves in asimilar position. Whether it's an
absentee f father or adifficult relationship with their
own father. The idea of how dothose lingering wounds get managed
(14:07):
as they parent their ownchild? You've talked about learning
and the constant evolutionpiece. There's a huge self awareness
piece that you alluded to aswell. But what kind of tips do you
offer dads as small startingpoints they could consider in terms
of how they foundationallybegin their relationship or alter
(14:28):
their relationship with theirown children?
Yeah, that's a great question.I'd say that's maybe a nuanced response.
I'll do my best. Number one, Ithink it's the recognition that you
have to process your ownstuff. You know, you've got to recognize
(14:51):
what may be your pastupbringing has left you with. And
if there's anger, if there'sresentment, if there's bitterness,
if there's unforgiveness, ifthere's, you know, confusion, if
there's sadness, if there'sgrief, you've gotta be able to name
them and you've got to be ableto then actually process them in
(15:12):
healthy ways. So maybe you'vedone that work already, which is
great. So then, you know, ifyou haven't, your children will most
certainly bring it out of youin ways and in moments you may be
least expected. And I wouldsay, whereas dads often beat themselves
up or others beat them up, ifthey make the mistake as a result
(15:33):
of, you know, being triggeredby their child, it's actually an
opportunity for you. Youshould see it as that and say, okay,
now I know there's somethingthere that I haven't actually resolved.
Now I can begin going to workon this. And then as I work on it,
I will know and I'll, I'mcertainly going to be challenged
(15:54):
again. I will know how to beable to address it better. So you
know that that starts theprocess, identifying those emotions,
working through, resolvingthem so that they don't show up in
ways you don't want them toshow up. When your children naturally
push your buttons, then fromthere, I think it's, you know, building
some form of support andpeople around you who recognize and
(16:15):
understand your goals and cansupport your efforts and build some
accountability into it. Socommunity, I think, is tremendously
important. That's somethingthat we do at Gentle. It's very important
to help surround fathers withthat support as well as helping give
practical, tangible skills onhow to engage and relate to others,
(16:36):
primarily our children, inhealthy ways. And that's built off
of an understanding what doesa healthy relationship look like?
So you need to understand someof those healthy relationship fundamentals
as well. Respect, honesty, youhave clear communication boundaries.
Those types of things verycrucial, too.
Let's switch gears just alittle bit and talk about the manosphere.
(16:56):
Certainly a concept thatincreasingly garners headlines in
Canada and around the world.The idea of online spaces that are
actively spreading toxicmasculinity. It's having a real influence
on many families and certainlyon young men. I wonder, is this something
that you're hearing about fromyour clientele and your audience?
(17:16):
And if so, what are some ofthe stories or examples that stand
out for you about themanosphere that you can share with
us that you've heard?
Yeah, I'll be honest, Leon,when you sent this information to
me, that was the first thatI'd really heard of it. Maybe that's
part of me because I'm. I tendnot to pay too much attention to
(17:37):
a lot of what's popular orwhat, but is often in the mainstream
media. So I. I'm not sure thatthere's much I can say if there are
dads out there who areexperiencing it. For me, the focus
for what we do and what I dois really helping fathers understand
what I've been sharing so far.Healthy relationship fundamentals
(17:58):
of how do you communicate andconnect with other person in. In
reasonable ways? And how doesthe research around fathers and child
development and understandingyour child's needs and being able
to meet those needs at certainpoints and ages and stages is really,
for me, how you do. And if I,if I can in some way try and offer
(18:18):
a response to the questionbuilt off of some of the research
is, you know, when you have astrong relationship characterized
by a warm, caring, you know,connected between a father and a
child, those are verysignificant protective factors from
external influences or fromeven things as significant as trauma.
(18:39):
And so that's why for me, thefocus is always on how do you help
Fathers build that strong,connected, warm, loving relationship
with their children wherethere's trust, where there's understanding,
where there's empathy, wherethere's, you know, essentially strong
influence. You know, when achild is, you know, using the old
(18:59):
attachment there, when a childfeels strongly attached to a caregiver,
mom or dad or both of them,then they're much more apt to want
to follow and be connected toyou and make choices that remain
and keep that connectiongoing. And so the more the fathers
can demonstrate that they'retrustworthy and that their children
value their, theirrelationship and their influence
(19:21):
in their life, I think that'sthe hu, the best guidance in terms
of countering some of theseunhealthy influences as well as what
you model in your own life andin your own relationships that your
parents get or your childrenget to see on a day to day basis.
What would you say to a dadthough, who maybe is trying to do
all the things you just saidis trying to really model healthy
(19:43):
masculinity. But the fact ofthe matter is, is we're surrounded
by many examples of theopposite and you know, trying to
turn off that influence, shutthat out, you know, clear out that
noise is a challenge for manypeople if it's in their face. So
what are, you know, justbecause you brought it up in terms
of, of how you presented that,what would you say to that father?
(20:07):
Yeah, then I would saydepending on age and stage of your
child is, you know, what levelof, I'll say boundaries do you need
to establish around, you know,what content your children are consuming,
if there is an opportunity forthat, because then that you take
a little bit of a protectiverole. The other thing is if children
are older for me, you know,when, when, especially when the adolescent,
(20:29):
teenage, you're doing muchmore what I would call coaching,
ideally if you're doing itwell, because you're helping them
develop critical thinkingskills, you're helping them self
reflect, you're helping growtheir own personal awareness and
the, how they're going to thenshow up and interact with others
and what are the, the choicesthat they're making on a day to day
(20:50):
basis that are going to helpthem do that better or are actually
going to hinder them and takethem away. So my advice to a dad
who's in that situation islook at the boundaries that you can
establish that are healthy asa protective factor reasonably and
then how can you begin tocoach your child to critically evaluate
the choices that they'remaking and how they're showing up
and how it influences othersor not. And because at the end of
(21:14):
the day, they are becomingtheir own person. And the more that
you can support them inbecoming solid decision makers, grounded
in principles and values anddeveloping character, that's going
to help them do the things youhopefully are showing them, then
they're going to want to makemistakes. So be there as also a soft
(21:38):
landing pad. You know, I wouldmuch rather my children, my, my teenagers
or early teens make mistakeswhen they're here at home that we
can, you know, surround themwith love and support and understanding,
but also critically evaluateand give them some practical ways
to make better decision movingforward than not. So I think that's
the other part of it. Whenthey make mistakes, it's not about
(21:58):
a heavy hand or it's aboutlearning and helping them get back
up to be able to keep goingand make better decisions moving
forward.
You are also a leadershipcoach. And I wonder, how do you help
dads go about reframingleadership not just in the workplace,
but more importantly at home?What does that look like?
(22:19):
Yeah, I think first andforemost it looks like leading yourself
first. You know, the thingsthat I, I'm sharing, and not that
I'm the only example, but, youknow, I want to be able to model
it first. I want to be able todemonstrate and have credibility
with whoever it is that I'mleading. And so I need to be able
to walk the walk or walk thetalk, whatever you want to say. So
(22:41):
that for me is step one. Youknow, you've got to. If you want
your children to bedisciplined, you need to be disciplined.
You want your children to berespectful, you need to be respectful.
You want your children tolisten, you need to listen to them.
So first and foremost, itstarts with me as dad, am I doing
what I'm saying that I want tobe doing? Then from there it's about,
how do you build? You know,John Maxwell is the foundation for
(23:04):
my leadership philosophy. Soessentially, actually borrow from
John and try and apply it asbest as I can in my life. And foundationally,
you know, it's aboutrelationships. You know, his definition
of leadership. Leadership isinfluence. Nothing more, nothing
less, you know. And what isinfluence? Well, influence is the
ability to, I think, buildtrust. And if your children trust
(23:27):
you, then you have influencewith them. If they don't trust you,
they don't have influence. Theother element of this is safety.
Emotional, psychologicalsafety. Can I bring my fears, my
ideas, my counter arguments,the things that I think I disagree
with you on to you and we canhave an open, honest, frank conversation.
And I not feel judged,chastised, ridiculed or manipulated
(23:49):
to go to your point. So to me,that's the foundation in terms of
one, you have to modelyourself. Two, you have to build
solid, healthy, constructive,trustworthy relationships with those
around you. And then fromthere we can build, you know, additional
things based on goals,aspirations, and leading in terms
of your family and, andworking collaboratively. I, I can't
(24:11):
leave this out, sorry.Collaboratively with your co parent
or with your spouse. I mean, Ithink that's foundational and so
important.
You created connected dads formany reasons, but presumably to address
a gap for dads, as we've kindof talked about in different ways
here, what would you say makesit different from other parenting
(24:32):
or coaching programs thatcurrently exist?
That's a great question. Sofor me, it's about the community
and it's about beingsurrounded by others who have a similar
desire but don't have all theanswers. And I'm, you know, poster
child for that. Don't have allthe answers. My goal is to continue
(24:55):
learning and surroundingmyself with others who have a different
idea, different perspective,or different experiences that I can
say, hey, you know, you'rereally good at this. Can you tell
me more about that? So I thinkthere's an element of humility, but
what makes it different isit's about community and surrounding
yourself with others who havetalent, skills, abilities that supplement
you, but also can have thisshared understanding of, you know,
(25:20):
the, the fatherhood experienceand how do we then grow collectively
towards all of our goals.
In terms of. What would yousay to a father listening to this
interview about taking thesteps to change their belief or mindset
in terms of how they show upfor their family? If it's something
(25:41):
they feel like they arestruggling with, they want to improve,
they have the self awarenessto take the steps to address it.
What would you say in terms ofoffering, you know, just a tip or
just a piece of advice abouthow to make a small change to allow
that to happen?
(26:01):
Yeah, well, I mean, first youjust got to do it right? So reach
out. If there's a resource, aperson, a friend, a mentor, you know,
somebody, your church,whatever it is, reach out and say,
hey, I'd like to talk aboutthis or I'd like some support in
this, you know, absolutely dothat. There was something that came
(26:23):
up as you're sharing, but it'stotally gone out of my mind now.
So step one, you just gotta doit. And then. Oh, the second part
is, whatever is one simplechange you can make. Just do it.
And right now, you know, iffatherhood and your relationship
with your children isimportant, then the simplest thing
you can do is dedicate 10minutes a day, just 10 minutes a
day of uninterrupted one onone time with your child, where your
(26:46):
goal is to simply puteverything away, your phone work,
everything else, and literallysit across from them or be across
on them in their space, eye toeye, face to face, smiling, observing,
asking questions and listeningas best you can or playing with them
for those 10 minutes a day.That, to me, are two simple things
(27:06):
you could do.
You have five kids and we'vetalked about, you know, your childhood,
the world we live in today,all the different unique challenges
and pressures affectingparents and specifically dads. In
this conversation, you know,what gives you hope about this generation
of fathers who are contendingwith so many different pieces coming
(27:31):
at them as our mothers and thesons and daughters that they are
trying to raise?
Yeah, what gives me hope isthe number of dads who are actively
reaching out, who are activelyseeking these resources, who are
actively connecting andbuilding, you know, their own communities
or building their skills orbuilding their knowledge or just
building their own health andwell being because their role of
(27:55):
father matters significantlyto them. So that, to me, that gives
me hope. You know, there are,there are opportunities and we're
are doing, we're doing ourbest. I'm doing my best to be able
to, you know, put thoseopportunities out there for dads
so they can be supported inthe ways that they need to be supported
in the ways that they want tobe supported, so that they can, you
(28:16):
know, fulfill that, thatheart's desire of being the dad that
they've always wanted to be.
Drew Soleyn, founder ofConnected Dads and director of dad
Central Ontario, thank you somuch for your time and your insight
today.
You're very welcome, Lianne.Thank you so much for the opportunity
for the conversation. To learnmore more about today's podcast guest
(28:38):
and topic, as well as otherparenting themes, visit whereparents
talk Comfortable.
Foreign.
Welcome to the Where ParentsTalk podcast. We help grow better
parents through science,evidence, and the lived experience
of other parents. Learn how tobetter navigate the mental and physical
health of your tween teen oryoung adult through proven expert
(00:21):
advice. Here's your host,Lianne Castelino.
How do we raise emotionallygrounded, resilient boys in a digital
age flooded with toxicmasculinity, identity confusion,
and the ever growing influenceof the manosphere? Welcome to Where
Parents Talk. My name isLianne Castelino. Our guest today
(00:42):
is a leadership coach, aspeaker, and a personal trainer.
Drew Soleyn is also thefounder of Connected Dads and director
of dad Central Ontario. He isa father of five and he joins us
today from Kingston, Ontario.Great to have you, Drew. Thanks for
joining us.
Well, thank you so much,Lianne. I'm honored to be here.
(01:03):
I'd like to start, if I could,with a bit of your lived experience
from your childhood. Certainlysomething that most of us can hardly
imagine. You were abducted byyour father as a child, and I wonder
how that early trauma hasshaped, if at all, the way that you
understand fatherhood today.
(01:25):
Yeah, maybe not your typicalchildhood or start. And in terms
of shaping it, absolutely. Ithink if you've reviewed any of my
website, you would have seen Ihave a phrase turning pain into purpose.
And so when I was about tobecome a dad, you know, the experience
that I had in my childhood wasvery prominent on my mind and, and
(01:47):
I would say I almost feltcompelled to talk about it, whereas
before I remember having ashort conversation with my mom, I
was probably 18. You know,she's a fantastic mom. Obviously
worked as hard as she could tosupport me to heal and recover from
that experience and had alwaysfocused on my, you know, I'll say
my well being, mentally,emotionally, spiritually, of course,
(02:08):
is my physical well being. Andshe asked me a question, she said,
drew, can we talk about thisexperience? We'd never talked about
it much, and at that point, at18, I said, no, what do we need to
talk about it for? It was inthe past. It's done. The only reason
I ever want to talk about momis if it could help somebody. And
so fast forward to becoming adad. I think the most important person
(02:30):
I need to help at that timewas me because, you know, with my
desire to be the most present,available, loving, kind parent, I
just felt that I needed, Ineeded to just share it with others
and not again from a place of,hey, here's what's going on for me.
(02:51):
But it's so important to me asa dad. So it shaped it in terms of
I always knew that I wanted tobe a different type of father, and
I always wanted, Knew. Knewthat I wanted my children to have
a very different experiencegrowing up than what I had growing
up. So it was, I'd say,foundational to shaping my perspective
as a father.
(03:12):
So what was the tipping pointthen, Drew, in terms of turning that
pain into purpose for you?
Hmm. I would have to say whenmy son was born, so he's our third
child, and, you know, lifejust got really challenging at the
(03:32):
time. My wife had just made atough decision to sell her business.
That had been a dream thatshe'd been, you know, running for
about four or five, five, I'dsay, years at that time, you know,
I had just been put into a newrole at work. Career pivot was being,
you know, pointed to asproviding significant leadership.
(03:53):
And then we had some familychallenges. We had. My grandmother
died and then an untimelydeath in my ex wife's family. Her
uncle died suddenly. And solife just really hit hard. And I
found myself really doingeverything I could to hold the family
(04:14):
together, to serve the needsof the children, to serve the needs
of my wife, and to, you know,just continue to lead and do well
at work. And I think I wascaring way too much. So the tipping
point was recognizing thatI'm. I'm. I can't handle all this.
And what happened is that itwould show up at home, right? I would
(04:36):
be impatient, I would beintolerant, and there was just a
lot of pain that I wasexperiencing at home. And I didn't
really have a way to. Anoutlet for it. I didn't have a way
to process it that felt likeit provided any form of relief. It
just felt heavier and heavier.So I'd say the tipping point was
life crashing down andrecognizing that needs to be something
more here.
(04:56):
There will be many parents wholisten to and watch this interview
who can relate to what youjust described, Drew. And you have
the fortune of, you know,supporting many dads who are maybe
in that category themselves interms of what you do with dad central
and connected dads. So whatkind of trends, if any, are you noticing
(05:18):
with respect to what dads aretelling you about, just in general?
Yeah, that's a fair question.And, you know, every dad's story
is going to be a little bitdifferent, but I'd say there are.
There are three common thingsthat typically come up. So right
now, in this age oftechnology, you know, screens are
a challenge I think for anyparent at any agent stage, but especially
(05:39):
in this sort of tween andearly teen stage screens and how
do you handle that and how doyou relate to your children? How
do you work with this screen?I think many parents I don't know,
but may have just given up,not, not sure how to approach it.
That's one. I think fathersare always feeling stretched, they're
feeling pulled in manydifferent directions and I think
(06:01):
there's many layers to that.But essentially it's how do you take
care of all theseresponsibilities and how do you then
care for yourself at the sametime so that you can show up the
way you want to and not feellike you're letting someone down
somewhere. And I think theother trend I would say is that,
you know, fathers are, arewanting, are seeking resources and
(06:27):
support but are stillstruggling to find places and spaces
that really recognize theirheart of wanting to be a father,
of wanting to be a good dad.They're still viewed with as you
opened up in, you know, thisidea of some of the toxic masculinity
or some of these other waysthat you know, have traditionally
how fathers might have beenviewed but are not how fathers today
(06:48):
want to be viewed or want toactually the heart behind how they
want to be parents.
You touched on a lot there.And I wonder, you know, when you
talk about dads who their selfcare, like a lot of moms, ends up
taking a backseat if at all onthe priority list, what do you say
(07:09):
to them in terms of how tosupport them and maybe alter a bit
of their mindset around theimportance of self care error before
you, you know, parent really?
Yeah, I think the conversationreally goes more to the place of
how do you regulate youremotions in the face of these constant
(07:30):
demands and challenges so thatyou can show up in the moments in
the way that you want to showup. Because I think it shows up for
fathers in intolerance,impatience. You know, sometimes the
yelling, the raising the voiceand most dads don't want to, but
it's literally because it'slike the straw that broke the camel's
back, right? You know, you'recarrying all that you're carrying,
you're at home, the kid andyour children continue to maybe do
(07:53):
something that is not alignedwith and it just something somebody
comes and so what the selfcare is more about how do you regulate,
regulate those emotions, howdo you regulate your needs and find
I would say micro moments tobe able to re engage with yourself,
to be able to process what youneed to process so that you can show
(08:13):
up in that moment. So, youknow, simply making sure that you
are breathing, that you are inthose moments. You are, if you need
to, you are removing yourself,you're taking a moment, you're establishing
healthy boundaries. Some ofthat is, I think, more helpful for
followers. Practical,tangible, moment by moment, in those
periods where you would tripup. That's where I think the focus
(08:34):
ends up being more forfollowers and also being, I think,
practical and helpful for thembecause generally they can carry
the load and they can perform.But at the same time, it's. It's
the ability to take thosemoments, to reconnect with themselves
and support themselves, whichisn't seen as the, you know, taking
a day off or going off withyour buddies. And I think that is
(08:56):
important, maybe we'll touchon it later, is the ability to have
strong, close, connectedcommunity or friendships. That's
very important and powerful too.
Certainly every age and stageof a child's life presents, you know,
wonderful rewards andincredible challenges in terms of
parenting. When we talk aboutadolescence, there's no shortage
(09:16):
of challenges. I wonder whyyou think that so many fathers feel
a lack of confidence and tendto struggle in their role when their
kids are in those tween teenand adolescent years.
Yeah, I mean, as I said, everystory is a little bit different.
I think there are someobservations both from me personally,
(09:37):
but also in, you know, doingthe work that we do, depending on
the context. Sometimes fathersaren't as involved when the children
are younger and they haven'tdeveloped some of the skills in terms
of relating and engaging withtheir children in ways that are maybe
as helpful or as productive tobuilding a strong relationship or
(09:57):
as a more connectedrelationship. And sometimes again,
in the teen agent, adolescentagent stage, you know, there's. There's
another element which I. I'mexperiencing myself is I see my children
growing independent, which isexcellent. I love that. But there's
also truly an emotionalletting go of that happens because
I'm not needed as maybe as Iwas before. Or I see my children
(10:19):
going in, making decisionsthat maybe I wouldn't want them to
make those decisions. But theyare getting to the age of stage where
they're able to make moreindependent choices. And so there's
an emotional element of.That's hard. That's hard as a parent,
and many dads may not be fullyaware of that. But I mean, I'm talking
about it because this is whatI'm going through now too. And so
I recognize how that hasimpacted me and My willingness or
(10:42):
ability to be able to engageand relate to my daughters in ways
that is more from a place ofcuriosity and understanding as opposed
to the directing andcorrecting. We'll say, right where
this is how you do it, this iswhat you should be doing. Why are
you doing those types ofthings? And so I think I'm off track
a little bit. But the. Themain element, I think, actually,
(11:02):
can you remind me question?
Well, it was really about, youknow, when dads, kind of, many of
them lose their confidence,right. Their kids are in the adolescent
stage.
So I think there's an elementof. Because you haven't built up
that skill early on, it'sharder at this age and stage because
of what I just described. Someof the emotions you're experiencing,
plus the children's growingindependence. And there's sometimes
(11:26):
friction in choices thatteenagers want to make, choices that
may not align with your viewsor your values as a parent. And the
other element is sometimes,again, back to the skill is the ability
to listen effectively orunderstand how to relate to children
who are going through thisvery important but also very challenging
developmental stagephysically, emotionally. Right. You're
(11:50):
seeing significant changes.And sometimes that's not easy for
dads especially. And I've gotdaughters, so some of the emotional
experiences of daughters istremendously challenging for, well,
say me, who is a little bitmore logic, reason based and that
significant emotionalfluctuations can be hard to. So how
(12:12):
do you work through that? Howdo you relate to that? And how do
you do it in a way that yourdaughters and sons feel seen, heard,
and understood? So I thinkthat's. That's a real challenge.
So on that note, Drew, like,how did you do it and how do you
do it in terms of so many ofthe things that you just talked about,
not the least of which is thefact that you, you know, your early
(12:33):
childhood experience with yourdad, like, you didn't presumably
have that role model that youcould then turn to.
A lot of work, a lot oflearning, a lot of making mistakes
and then recognizing themistakes, repairing the relationships
(12:54):
from the mistakes that havebeen made, and re entering and trying
again based off of newlearning. You know, that old adage
of, you know, learn somethingnew, unlearn the old bad habit, and
then relearn new ways tointegrate the two. And so that's
really the process. It takes alot of work. And back to the idea
of feeling stretched. Youknow, sometimes dads don't focus
(13:18):
on that as an important aspectof their own growth and development.
And that's where they justresort to old patterns or resort
to maybe influences that maynot be as valuable for actually building
a stronger relationship. Andthen they just say, well, I'm going
to do that. And it continuesto maybe not yield the results are
looking for. And then I thinkyou get frustrated, you get discouraged,
(13:41):
and then you also feel like,well, forget about it. I'm just going
to let you know, mom orsomebody else or, or deal with it.
I don't know that many dadsdid, but sometimes that does happen.
You have certainly at thispoint presumably supported many dads
who found themselves in asimilar position. Whether it's an
absentee f father or adifficult relationship with their
own father. The idea of how dothose lingering wounds get managed
(14:07):
as they parent their ownchild? You've talked about learning
and the constant evolutionpiece. There's a huge self awareness
piece that you alluded to aswell. But what kind of tips do you
offer dads as small startingpoints they could consider in terms
of how they foundationallybegin their relationship or alter
(14:28):
their relationship with theirown children?
Yeah, that's a great question.I'd say that's maybe a nuanced response.
I'll do my best. Number one, Ithink it's the recognition that you
have to process your ownstuff. You know, you've got to recognize
(14:51):
what may be your pastupbringing has left you with. And
if there's anger, if there'sresentment, if there's bitterness,
if there's unforgiveness, ifthere's, you know, confusion, if
there's sadness, if there'sgrief, you've gotta be able to name
them and you've got to be ableto then actually process them in
(15:12):
healthy ways. So maybe you'vedone that work already, which is
great. So then, you know, ifyou haven't, your children will most
certainly bring it out of youin ways and in moments you may be
least expected. And I wouldsay, whereas dads often beat themselves
up or others beat them up, ifthey make the mistake as a result
(15:33):
of, you know, being triggeredby their child, it's actually an
opportunity for you. Youshould see it as that and say, okay,
now I know there's somethingthere that I haven't actually resolved.
Now I can begin going to workon this. And then as I work on it,
I will know and I'll, I'mcertainly going to be challenged
(15:54):
again. I will know how to beable to address it better. So you
know that that starts theprocess, identifying those emotions,
working through, resolvingthem so that they don't show up in
ways you don't want them toshow up. When your children naturally
push your buttons, then fromthere, I think it's, you know, building
some form of support andpeople around you who recognize and
(16:15):
understand your goals and cansupport your efforts and build some
accountability into it. Socommunity, I think, is tremendously
important. That's somethingthat we do at Gentle. It's very important
to help surround fathers withthat support as well as helping give
practical, tangible skills onhow to engage and relate to others,
(16:36):
primarily our children, inhealthy ways. And that's built off
of an understanding what doesa healthy relationship look like?
So you need to understand someof those healthy relationship fundamentals
as well. Respect, honesty, youhave clear communication boundaries.
Those types of things verycrucial, too.
Let's switch gears just alittle bit and talk about the manosphere.
(16:56):
Certainly a concept thatincreasingly garners headlines in
Canada and around the world.The idea of online spaces that are
actively spreading toxicmasculinity. It's having a real influence
on many families and certainlyon young men. I wonder, is this something
that you're hearing about fromyour clientele and your audience?
(17:16):
And if so, what are some ofthe stories or examples that stand
out for you about themanosphere that you can share with
us that you've heard?
Yeah, I'll be honest, Leon,when you sent this information to
me, that was the first thatI'd really heard of it. Maybe that's
part of me because I'm. I tendnot to pay too much attention to
(17:37):
a lot of what's popular orwhat, but is often in the mainstream
media. So I. I'm not sure thatthere's much I can say if there are
dads out there who areexperiencing it. For me, the focus
for what we do and what I dois really helping fathers understand
what I've been sharing so far.Healthy relationship fundamentals
(17:58):
of how do you communicate andconnect with other person in. In
reasonable ways? And how doesthe research around fathers and child
development and understandingyour child's needs and being able
to meet those needs at certainpoints and ages and stages is really,
for me, how you do. And if I,if I can in some way try and offer
(18:18):
a response to the questionbuilt off of some of the research
is, you know, when you have astrong relationship characterized
by a warm, caring, you know,connected between a father and a
child, those are verysignificant protective factors from
external influences or fromeven things as significant as trauma.
(18:39):
And so that's why for me, thefocus is always on how do you help
Fathers build that strong,connected, warm, loving relationship
with their children wherethere's trust, where there's understanding,
where there's empathy, wherethere's, you know, essentially strong
influence. You know, when achild is, you know, using the old
(18:59):
attachment there, when a childfeels strongly attached to a caregiver,
mom or dad or both of them,then they're much more apt to want
to follow and be connected toyou and make choices that remain
and keep that connectiongoing. And so the more the fathers
can demonstrate that they'retrustworthy and that their children
value their, theirrelationship and their influence
(19:21):
in their life, I think that'sthe hu, the best guidance in terms
of countering some of theseunhealthy influences as well as what
you model in your own life andin your own relationships that your
parents get or your childrenget to see on a day to day basis.
What would you say to a dadthough, who maybe is trying to do
all the things you just saidis trying to really model healthy
(19:43):
masculinity. But the fact ofthe matter is, is we're surrounded
by many examples of theopposite and you know, trying to
turn off that influence, shutthat out, you know, clear out that
noise is a challenge for manypeople if it's in their face. So
what are, you know, justbecause you brought it up in terms
of, of how you presented that,what would you say to that father?
(20:07):
Yeah, then I would saydepending on age and stage of your
child is, you know, what levelof, I'll say boundaries do you need
to establish around, you know,what content your children are consuming,
if there is an opportunity forthat, because then that you take
a little bit of a protectiverole. The other thing is if children
are older for me, you know,when, when, especially when the adolescent,
(20:29):
teenage, you're doing muchmore what I would call coaching,
ideally if you're doing itwell, because you're helping them
develop critical thinkingskills, you're helping them self
reflect, you're helping growtheir own personal awareness and
the, how they're going to thenshow up and interact with others
and what are the, the choicesthat they're making on a day to day
(20:50):
basis that are going to helpthem do that better or are actually
going to hinder them and takethem away. So my advice to a dad
who's in that situation islook at the boundaries that you can
establish that are healthy asa protective factor reasonably and
then how can you begin tocoach your child to critically evaluate
the choices that they'remaking and how they're showing up
and how it influences othersor not. And because at the end of
(21:14):
the day, they are becomingtheir own person. And the more that
you can support them inbecoming solid decision makers, grounded
in principles and values anddeveloping character, that's going
to help them do the things youhopefully are showing them, then
they're going to want to makemistakes. So be there as also a soft
(21:38):
landing pad. You know, I wouldmuch rather my children, my, my teenagers
or early teens make mistakeswhen they're here at home that we
can, you know, surround themwith love and support and understanding,
but also critically evaluateand give them some practical ways
to make better decision movingforward than not. So I think that's
the other part of it. Whenthey make mistakes, it's not about
(21:58):
a heavy hand or it's aboutlearning and helping them get back
up to be able to keep goingand make better decisions moving
forward.
You are also a leadershipcoach. And I wonder, how do you help
dads go about reframingleadership not just in the workplace,
but more importantly at home?What does that look like?
(22:19):
Yeah, I think first andforemost it looks like leading yourself
first. You know, the thingsthat I, I'm sharing, and not that
I'm the only example, but, youknow, I want to be able to model
it first. I want to be able todemonstrate and have credibility
with whoever it is that I'mleading. And so I need to be able
to walk the walk or walk thetalk, whatever you want to say. So
(22:41):
that for me is step one. Youknow, you've got to. If you want
your children to bedisciplined, you need to be disciplined.
You want your children to berespectful, you need to be respectful.
You want your children tolisten, you need to listen to them.
So first and foremost, itstarts with me as dad, am I doing
what I'm saying that I want tobe doing? Then from there it's about,
how do you build? You know,John Maxwell is the foundation for
(23:04):
my leadership philosophy. Soessentially, actually borrow from
John and try and apply it asbest as I can in my life. And foundationally,
you know, it's aboutrelationships. You know, his definition
of leadership. Leadership isinfluence. Nothing more, nothing
less, you know. And what isinfluence? Well, influence is the
ability to, I think, buildtrust. And if your children trust
(23:27):
you, then you have influencewith them. If they don't trust you,
they don't have influence. Theother element of this is safety.
Emotional, psychologicalsafety. Can I bring my fears, my
ideas, my counter arguments,the things that I think I disagree
with you on to you and we canhave an open, honest, frank conversation.
And I not feel judged,chastised, ridiculed or manipulated
(23:49):
to go to your point. So to me,that's the foundation in terms of
one, you have to modelyourself. Two, you have to build
solid, healthy, constructive,trustworthy relationships with those
around you. And then fromthere we can build, you know, additional
things based on goals,aspirations, and leading in terms
of your family and, andworking collaboratively. I, I can't
(24:11):
leave this out, sorry.Collaboratively with your co parent
or with your spouse. I mean, Ithink that's foundational and so
important.
You created connected dads formany reasons, but presumably to address
a gap for dads, as we've kindof talked about in different ways
here, what would you say makesit different from other parenting
(24:32):
or coaching programs thatcurrently exist?
That's a great question. Sofor me, it's about the community
and it's about beingsurrounded by others who have a similar
desire but don't have all theanswers. And I'm, you know, poster
child for that. Don't have allthe answers. My goal is to continue
(24:55):
learning and surroundingmyself with others who have a different
idea, different perspective,or different experiences that I can
say, hey, you know, you'rereally good at this. Can you tell
me more about that? So I thinkthere's an element of humility, but
what makes it different isit's about community and surrounding
yourself with others who havetalent, skills, abilities that supplement
you, but also can have thisshared understanding of, you know,
(25:20):
the, the fatherhood experienceand how do we then grow collectively
towards all of our goals.
In terms of. What would yousay to a father listening to this
interview about taking thesteps to change their belief or mindset
in terms of how they show upfor their family? If it's something
(25:41):
they feel like they arestruggling with, they want to improve,
they have the self awarenessto take the steps to address it.
What would you say in terms ofoffering, you know, just a tip or
just a piece of advice abouthow to make a small change to allow
that to happen?
(26:01):
Yeah, well, I mean, first youjust got to do it right? So reach
out. If there's a resource, aperson, a friend, a mentor, you know,
somebody, your church,whatever it is, reach out and say,
hey, I'd like to talk aboutthis or I'd like some support in
this, you know, absolutely dothat. There was something that came
(26:23):
up as you're sharing, but it'stotally gone out of my mind now.
So step one, you just gotta doit. And then. Oh, the second part
is, whatever is one simplechange you can make. Just do it.
And right now, you know, iffatherhood and your relationship
with your children isimportant, then the simplest thing
you can do is dedicate 10minutes a day, just 10 minutes a
day of uninterrupted one onone time with your child, where your
(26:46):
goal is to simply puteverything away, your phone work,
everything else, and literallysit across from them or be across
on them in their space, eye toeye, face to face, smiling, observing,
asking questions and listeningas best you can or playing with them
for those 10 minutes a day.That, to me, are two simple things
(27:06):
you could do.
You have five kids and we'vetalked about, you know, your childhood,
the world we live in today,all the different unique challenges
and pressures affectingparents and specifically dads. In
this conversation, you know,what gives you hope about this generation
of fathers who are contendingwith so many different pieces coming
(27:31):
at them as our mothers and thesons and daughters that they are
trying to raise?
Yeah, what gives me hope isthe number of dads who are actively
reaching out, who are activelyseeking these resources, who are
actively connecting andbuilding, you know, their own communities
or building their skills orbuilding their knowledge or just
building their own health andwell being because their role of
(27:55):
father matters significantlyto them. So that, to me, that gives
me hope. You know, there are,there are opportunities and we're
are doing, we're doing ourbest. I'm doing my best to be able
to, you know, put thoseopportunities out there for dads
so they can be supported inthe ways that they need to be supported
in the ways that they want tobe supported, so that they can, you
(28:16):
know, fulfill that, thatheart's desire of being the dad that
they've always wanted to be.
Drew Soleyn, founder ofConnected Dads and director of dad
Central Ontario, thank you somuch for your time and your insight
today.
You're very welcome, Lianne.Thank you so much for the opportunity
for the conversation. To learnmore more about today's podcast guest
(28:38):
and topic, as well as otherparenting themes, visit whereparents
talk Comfortable.
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