March 15, 2025 • 30 mins
High-achieving parenting often comes with the weight of expectations, not just from society but also from within ourselves. In this episode of the Where Parents Talk podcast, host Lianne Castelino delves into how these pressures can impact both our emotional health and our children's well-being with her guest, Kate Kripke.
A licensed clinical social, maternal and maternal wellness expert, Kripke shares strategies on how to foster emotional resilience in our kids while navigating the challenges of modern parenting, including the influence of social media and device usage.
The discussion explores the intricate connections between how we perceive our own self-worth and how it affects our children’s self-esteem, especially in the context of their mental health and social interactions.
Kripke, a speaker, author, podcaster and mother of two teens, unpacks the significance of communication, consent in relationships, and the importance of prioritizing both physical and emotional health for ourselves and our children.
Takeaways:
- High achieving parents often project their own insecurities onto their children, impacting their emotional health.
- Emotional awareness and self-compassion are essential for parents to model healthy communication to their children.
- Navigating parenting requires balancing discipline with emotional support, especially in today's competitive environment.
- Understanding how our feelings influence our parenting style can help break the cycle of anxiety and perfectionism.
- Parents must prioritize their own mental health to foster their children's emotional resilience and independence.
- Engaging in open conversations about feelings teaches children the importance of consent and healthy relationships.
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Calm Connection System
- Kate Kripke
This podcast is for parents, guardians, teachers and caregivers to learn proven strategies and trusted tips on raising kids, teens and young adults based on science, evidenced and lived experience.
In this podcast, we explore the impact of hormonal changes, device usage, and social media on discipline, communication, and independence.
You’ll learn the latest on topics like managing bullying, consent, fostering healthy relationships, and the interconnectedness of mental, emotional and physical health.
Links referenced in this episode:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Welcome to the Where ParentsTalk podcast. We help grow better
parents through science,evidence and the lived experience
of other parents. Learn how tobetter navigate the mental and physical
health of your tween teen oryoung adult through proven expert
advice. Here's your host,Lianne Castelino. Are you a high
(00:27):
achieving parent? Doexpectations of yourself manifest
in your children? Are yourexpectations of your children anxiety
inducing? Welcome to WhereParents Talk. My name is Lianne Castelino.
Our guest today is a licensedclinical social worker and a certified
perinatal mental healthcounselor. Kate Kripke helps support
(00:49):
the emotional well being ofmothers from conception onwards.
She's also an author, apodcast host, a speaker, and the
founder of the Calm ConnectionSystem. Kate is also a mother of
two teenagers and she joins ustoday from Boulder, Colorado. Thank
you so much for taking thetime, Leanne.
I'm really thrilled to behere. Thank you for having me.
(01:11):
We are talking about a subjectthat many parents, especially today,
can likely relate to and thatis high achieving parenting. What,
first of all, is a highachieving parent?
Great question. High achievingparents are those of us who set our
sights on reaching our goalsand meeting achievements above and
(01:35):
beyond everything else. Sothat's those of us who have sort
of tend towards perfectionistthinking, all or nothing thinking,
really high expectations ofourselves. And often what really
determines whether or not Iconsider someone a high achiever
is are their achievements andtheir goals the basis from which
(01:55):
they determine their sense ofself? So sometimes these moms that
are high achievers might alsobe career driven, sometimes not.
But definitely those of us whostrive really high and will do whatever
we can to meet our goals, evenif that effort is actually getting
in the way of how we want to feel.
So then the next question thatfollows from what you just said then
(02:19):
is how can a high achievingparent impact their child be that
both positively or negatively?
Yeah, great question. I wantto preface this whole conversation
by making sure that we are notcreating a situation for shame and
blame for any of yourlisteners. Because it is really easy
when we ask ourselves thosehard questions as parents and mothers
(02:42):
to go into a spiral of notbeing good enough or failing. And
of course, the tricky part isthat that tends to be the deep hidden
thought process of many highachievers already. Right? Good, bad,
right, wrong, all, nothing.And so let's just set the tone of
we're all in this together,none of us are going to be perfect.
(03:03):
However, I do think it'sreally important that we as parents
understand that how we feelabout ourselves, those deep hidden
Underlying beliefs which areoften fear based. What if I'm not
good enough? What if I fail?What if something bad happens? What
if I'm not okay? Right. Thatthose deep fear based beliefs and
(03:25):
questions we have aboutourselves will get projected onto
our kids. Because our deepestbeliefs, unconscious beliefs, lead
to how we think on a consciousbasis. The kind of thoughts we have,
the responses to life, thosethoughts lead to how we feel emotionally.
Our emotions motivate behaviorand our behaviors, which are often
habits, often very unconscioushabits. Those habits lead to the
(03:46):
results of our life. So ifwe're parenting our kids from a place
of feeling, like my success inparenting determines whether or not
I feel good about myself.We're going to unintentionally get
so hooked into the goal beingthe primary focus instead of the
process of buildingrelationships. Does that make sense?
(04:08):
It does. And what comes to meas you describe it is having the
self awareness to know thatone, you're a high achiever, two,
that you might be projectingthese emotions and sort of expectations
on your kids. What do yousuggest to parents to come to that
self realization in the firstplace in order to then address it?
Yeah, I am a big advocate oflistening to our bodies. I will say
(04:32):
that most of high achievingfolks, and again, not everyone, but
many of us who are highachievers have learned to be high
achievers because slowing downinvites feeling and emotions. And
we probably are also folks whohave not been taught that emotions
are not the problem. So we dowhatever we can to not feel those
(04:56):
unpleasant feelings, includingjump in our head to find the right
answers or analyze things orlook at our to do list. To do more,
to achieve more. And so one ofthe things that I think happens,
especially in parenthood isthat we cannot avoid the unpleasant
feelings. We cannot avoidthem. And to begin to notice, well,
first of all, asking ourselvesthe questions, what was I taught
(05:19):
about uncomfortable emotionswhen I was a child? And what have
I learned to do? To jump outof uncomfortable situations, Whether
that's uncertainty orunpredictability or worry or sadness
or disappointment, and tobegin to notice that when we feel
discomfort in our body, whathappens next for us? What do we quote,
(05:40):
unquote do next? Because ifyou notice that you jump into analytical
thinking or problem solving orgetting up out of your seat to do
something on your to do listor find some other big achievement
to focus on, that's probably asign that you're missing. From my
perspective, one of theimportant, most important parts of
(06:02):
being human, which is thewisdom of our emotions and our Kids
feel so much. So if we don'tknow how to sit with our own emotions,
it's going to be real hard tosit with our kiddos emotions.
There's so much in that, rightthere is how you were raised, how
you were taught to manage yourown emotions. Now dealing with a
(06:22):
different generation, there'sthe idea that we live in a world
that is ultra, some wouldargue, competitive, you know, toxic
achievement is just a built infacet of the world we live in. So
what you're describing in manyways is turning all of that off.
And that is not a small item.So what can a small first step in
(06:46):
your estimation look like?
Yeah, although I want to justsuggest that I'm not sure turning
it all off is either a fairexpectation or a realistic one. And
that's certainly not what I aminviting people to do. That's certainly
not what I have done. I mean Iam a born high achiever and have
(07:08):
really hard to had to workwith what motherhood has looked like
for me because when my kidswere little and I was trying to keep
up and do everything I wasquote unquote supposed to do and
raise these perfect littlehumans who were also very successful.
I mean, I, I, I, I, there's,we can't turn it off. We just need
to get curious about theimpact that that is having in us
(07:30):
and how it's influencing thechoices that we're making. So for
instance, a introductory,introductory question that I ask
myself all the time, I inviteeveryone to ask themselves is what
part? First of all, what's notworking for me in my life? Sometimes
we're not even pausing enoughto ask that question, right? How
am I feeling and how do I wantto feel? Which is a very different
(07:55):
question than many highachievers ask. What many high achievers
ask is what do I want my lifeto look like? What do I want to do?
And that is a veryintellectual analytical question.
It involves doing andachieving. Just in the question there's,
you know, flavors of highachievement, right? But when we ask
(08:16):
how do I want to feel and howam I feeling? Now that's a brave
question because I think itrequires us to slow down and sit
with vulnerability, whichagain, many of us were not taught
was okay to do. The questionthat follows that is what part might
I be playing in the thingsthat aren't working for me? And this
(08:38):
is not where am I to blame andhow is this my fault? I do not want
anyone to ask those questions.But what part might I be playing?
I think a lot of us do notrecognize that we are fueling unintentionally,
of course, a lot of theanxiety, guilt and burnout that we
(08:58):
feel in motherhood. And that'swhere we get to ask ourselves, what
am I telling myself it meansto be a good mom? What's my definition
of good mothering? Quoteunquote. Right. But again, I want
us to consider the possibilityof looking at this from a feeling
based perspective versus adoing and achieving based perspective.
(09:20):
And we can't turn off thesociety and culture's external pressures.
They are there. I mean, Lordknows we are in a generation of parents
who believes that if we're notparticipating in everything in our
children's lives, we'reletting them down somehow. Right.
And yet feelings are never theproblem. So if we can sit back and
(09:44):
consider the possibility thatour emotional discomfort is not a
problem and our children'semotional discomfort is not a problem,
then we can open up more roomto ask ourselves, what choices am
I making that it's leading meto feeling so stressed and tense
and tight and burnt out?
Certainly a very importantdistinction when you talk about doing
(10:05):
versus feeling. That's a greatway to think about it. Your work
with maternal wellness, Kate,has spanned several decades. At this
point, I'm curious as to whatyou are seeing with respect to current
trends as it relates to highachieving women who become moms and
what they're. They're telling you.
(10:26):
Yeah, I mean, the trend is afast paced one in which high achievers
will think to themselves, whatdo I need to give my child and provide
my child with so that theyare, quote, unquote, okay. And I
think the definition of okayoften is, is, you know, feeling good
(10:52):
all the time, being at the topof the class, having all the opportunities
that maybe they didn't have.Right. A lot of it is about, again,
it's sort of about this imageof well being, but the image is from
looking from the outside in.Right. What does it look like to
have a successful child Now? Ithink there are many mothers, whether
(11:13):
they're stay at home moms orworking moms, who have been led to
believe, not from a maliciousplace, but because of the data coming
out around child mentalhealth, that children need to be
seen, heard and understood.Right. We all are hearing that across
platforms. Right. There'sgentle parenting, there's attachment
(11:33):
parenting, there's, you know,this idea that we need to be having
these really importantconversations with our kids all the
time. It is, when we look atthat from a perspective of doing
it is unachievable becausewe're trying to, quote, unquote,
do it all. I invite people tostep back and ask that question again,
(11:55):
how do I want my child to movethrough this world? Most of us are
going to say brave, resilient,emotionally intelligent. And we forget
that that kind of childdevelopment and success in children
requires emotional challenge.So what I'm hearing, to circle back
to your question, is momscoming to me who are almost saying
(12:18):
I don't have time to have thissupport because there's too much
to do. This idea that my jobis to take care of everything outside
of me first and foremost,because taking care of myself, a
I have no time or it's selfishor there's too much to do. And then
we miss the point, which isthat it is literally impossible to
show up for our children theway we want to if we're burnt out.
(12:41):
So it is sort of this insideout perspective versus outside in
perspective about thinkingabout, again, how do I want to feel
as a mother and a woman and ahuman and a participant in this larger
society? And what are thechoices that I'm making or the thoughts
I'm engaging in that aregetting me farther away from that
(13:02):
or closer to that? So again, Ithink it's just this increased pressure
to do, do, do, do withoutrealizing that the feeling in there,
it's the emotional part ofmothering parenting that is the most
helpful for our children. Weneed to slow down and be present
with them in those moments orwe're not teaching them how to be
(13:25):
emotionally resilient. I kindof feel like I went all over the
place with that question. Butdoes that answer the question?
It does. It does. And it doesprovide context generally. And it
also begs the question when itcomes to anxiety, because you talked
about how we feel aboutourselves is often how our kids will
(13:47):
see themselves as well. Yes.Many parents believe when it comes
to anxiety that by hidingtheir own stress, they are protecting
their kids and hiding it fromtheir children. Kate, can you give
us a sense of how do childrenabsorb and internalize their parents
anxiety?
This is my favorite questionand I am so glad you're asking. And
(14:10):
again, it's a perfect questionfor that high achieving parent who's
trying to quote, unquote, doeverything right. Maternal and child
mental health, parental andchild mental health. But I mostly
work with moms, or I work allwith moms. I should say maternal
and child mental health areintimately connected. Why? Because
we communicate safety to theworld, to our children through our
(14:35):
emotional energy. And I don'tmean this necessarily. Woo. Although
of course you can think aboutthat if you want to. But minuscule
facial expressions, body odor,muscle tension, tone of voice, breath
patterns. How we're feeling onthe inside is exhibited in many ways
(14:55):
to our children. We want to beteaching our children that having
a vast experience of emotionsis healthy. In fact, the definition
of mental health is that ourinternal landscape, what we're feeling
inside, matches what'shappening outside. Right? So we want
to make sure our children knowthat it is okay to feel worried,
(15:18):
scared, uncertain,disappointed, sad, angry. Many of
us think that's bad. To showour parents that we feel that way
because ironically, we don'twant to contribute to their emotional
discomfort. However, when wesay we're feeling one thing but exhibiting
something else, this isincredibly confusing to children
(15:41):
because they feel what wefeel. Mirror neurons, exchange of
body energy. You know, littlechildren who sit in our lap, they
feel all the things that wedon't even realize we're putting
off again, the temperature ofour skin, our body tension, our body
odor, our tone of voice. Andquite frankly, the biggest mistake
(16:04):
we might make when a childsays, mommy, are you sad? Or mommy,
what's wrong? Is to say,nothing, I'm fine. Because we're
inadvertently teaching ourchildren two things. Number one,
it's not okay to feel sad ordisappointed or whatever it is that
we're actually feeling. Andtwo, we're teaching them not to trust
(16:24):
their intuition. Best thing wecan do is with total authenticity,
say, yes, I'm feeling, fill inthe blank. And then, and here's what
I'm going to do to be takingcare of myself so that we're offering
that both and I can feel hardthings and still be okay.
(16:45):
So along those same lines,Kate, what are some practical science
based strategies that parentscan look to to regulate their own
emotions in moments of stressand overwhelm?
Beautiful. First thing I wantto remind everybody about is that
our bodies don't know thedifference between real and perceived
threat. Our physiology doesnot know the difference between real
(17:08):
and perceived threat. And 99%of the time what we're telling ourselves
is a problem is not a cris. Itmight be a situation that needs some
figuring out. And it might bereally uncomfortable or really inconvenient,
but not necessarily a quoteunquote problem. So I say that to
folks to really remind peoplehow important it is to pay attention
(17:31):
to what you are thinkingduring the time that you're noticing
your body feel tense andtight. And that's the other important
practice that I Think manydoers and shakers and high achievers
are not used to which iscoming into our body. How am I feeling
in my body? Because our bodytense, tight, hot, you know, achy
(17:55):
or you know, relaxed, open.Sometimes there's a bit of effervescence.
If we're feeling somethingthat's not, you know, a fear based
feeling, those feelings aregoing to tell us what we can do next.
To access parasympatheticnervous system response. Sympathetic
fight, flight or freezeParasympathetic rest and digest.
(18:16):
So one thing is just to getcurious, what is happening in my
body? We know that from aparenting perspective, it doesn't
matter what we say and itdoesn't matter what we do. What matters
is the, the nervous systemresponse from which those words are
coming from. And so before weparent our children, we literally
want to be, this is a bigterm. So I don't want your listeners
(18:38):
to overthink it, but parentour, ourselves. What can I do in
this moment to tend to my ownnervous system? I do have a bit of
a three step practice forthis. Can I share it with your listeners?
Yes.
Okay. And this is all based onthe evidence and the science about
nervous system management andparenting, but it is three steps
and I call it the three Cs.And the three Cs are a process to
(18:59):
move from unpleasant emotionback to more pleasant emotion. Another
way to say this is to movefrom sympathetic nervous system response.
Right? Fight, flight, freezeto rest and digest. Calm, steady,
grounded. Again, to remindfolks, which your listeners may already
know, when we're in a state offight, flight or freeze nervous system
response, our limbic brain ison, is the one that's making, you
(19:23):
know, it's reactive frontalcortex, rational thought, logical
thinking, creatively, problemsolving. We can't access that if
we're in a state of fight,flight or freeze. So whatever comes
next, if we want it to beintentional and grounded and useful,
we've got to quiet that partof our brain that thinks there's
a big problem here. So thethree C's first question. And this
(19:45):
is for, for all of us whenwe're in these moments of like, you
know, noticing our, our, our,our nervous system begin to escalate,
right? We're getting,beginning to get irritated. We're
beginning to feel anxiousabout something. We're beginning
to feel the, the sort of heatof disappointment or anger. First
question, first C. Curiosity.What am I feeling in my body? Sometimes
(20:12):
I ask this question, Leanneand my clients will say I'm feeling
like my Child never listens.Which of course is not a feeling.
That's a thought. So the firstquestion is literally, what am I
feeling? Ah, my. My chestfeels tight, my jaw is clenched,
I'm having a hard timebreathing. What emotion is that?
I'm really frustrated. I'mfeeling anxious or worried. That
(20:35):
first C is so important. Andagain, many of us who are taught
that it's not safe or not okayto feel unpleasant emotion will not
take the time to ask thatquestion because we're really wanting
to lean into the feeling. Fromthe assumption, which is science
backed, that the feelings arenever the problem. They can be really
uncomfortable, reallyinconvenient, but not a problem.
(20:59):
And not a problem for adultswith fully functioning brains. Right?
We know that children actuallydon't have the brain capacity to
process big emotion on theirown, which is part of why we're doing
this. Because if our childrenstruggle, if our child is struggling,
we want to be able to sitsteady with them through their struggle.
What am I feeling in my body?What emotion is that? Second c. Compassion.
So much research on the valueof self compassion in nervous system
(21:24):
management. Self compassionmeans meeting ourselves where we
are. It's not cheerleading.Come on, you can do this. You're
doing fine, right? It's gonnaget better. It's truly allowing ourselves
to feel exactly as we feel. Wewon't have time to get into something
I'm gonna mention here on thiscall. But many of us have these beliefs
I keep mentioning aboutemotions being bad and not being
(21:47):
okay. And it's reallyimportant to be able to challenge
those beliefs that you mayhave learned when you were a child.
Because the second part,compassion, means we're going to
give ourselves permission tofeel exactly what we're feeling.
Of course I'm feeling thisway. I've asked my child three times
to do their homework or puttheir shoes on, or come to the dinner
table or stop throwing food orwhatever it is. Of course I'm feeling
(22:09):
frustrated. My feeling makessense. I'm in a moment. I do not
know what to do. My child iscrying and I can't figure out how
to settle my child. Of courseI'm feeling anxious. Our brains are
wired to feel anxious in timesof uncertainty and unpredictability.
So that second C is trulyabout just meeting ourselves where
we are. Once we've done thosetwo things, we can move on to choice.
(22:32):
Many of us, the reason we willhigh achievers, especially the reason
we'll get sort of quoteunquote scared of giving ourselves
permission to feel what we'refeeling is because we're afraid we're
going to get all consumed byit and there's no time. Right. How
often I hear that from myclients. I don't have time to feel
the feeling. I've got too muchto do. Right. There's data around
(22:52):
the passing of feelings, too.90 seconds. If we let ourselves feel
those feelings, it doesn'ttake a whole lot of time. But that
third c, we finally get tosay, okay, how do I want to feel?
This is where agency comes in.And there's a lot of data that talks
about how when we feel like wedo not have choice and control, our
nervous system escalates. Thisis for us, and this is for our children.
(23:16):
So this third c choice gets usback into agency. How do I want to
feel in this moment? I don'twant to feel overwhelmed. I don't
want to feel ragey. I don'twant to feel terrified. I want to
feel grounded. I want to feelcalm. I want to feel connected to
my child. Great. What are thethoughts we can engage in that will
get us closer to that feeling?I can remind myself that feelings
(23:38):
are not the problem. I can,you know, remind myself that my child
is a child and all of theirbehaviors are reflections of how
they feel. And kids feel bigfeelings all the time. I can remind
myself that I'm literallydoing the best I can in this moment.
These are thoughts that mighthelp us feel more grounded. And then
the action steps, the choices.This is so important because we can't
(24:00):
have all this just live in ourbrain. We need to pull this into
action. What baby step actionscan I take that will move me from
overwhelmed and ragey andexhausted to calm and connected and
maybe a little more confident?Well, I can put my hand on my heart
and take a deep breath. I canpick up my child and go stand outside
(24:21):
in the sunshine and, you know,move, move. You know, move the. The
environment that we're in. Ican get down at my child's level
and look them in the eye andreflect back to them. Wow. We are
both having a really hard timeright now, aren't we? I can drink
a glass of water. I can put onsome music. I mean, there's all kinds
of things that we can do thatwill help us shift from that more
(24:43):
unpleasant emotion to thatmore pleasant emotion. What gets
in the way for many highachievers is this idea of time. Not
having time. This is a bigthing for many high achievers. There's
not enough time. The irony isthat when we Take the quote, unquote,
time to slow down, allow forthe feeling, meet ourselves where
(25:07):
we are and take a step, smallbaby step action. Everything after
that moves more easily. Soit's not about not feeling the first
feeling. It's about givingourselves permission to access other
feelings at the same time.That makes sense.
It does. And you've done suchan incredible job of laying it out
in terms of providing thecontext and sort of approaches for
(25:28):
parents. Kate, if you were toleave high achieving parents with
one thing that they need to beaware of.
Yeah.
In raising a child in today'shigh achieving culture, what would
that be?
This is a painful realizationand a deeply empowering one. How
(25:51):
I feel about myself, reallyunderneath all the layers that I've
put on myself throughout myyears of becoming successful in this
world, how I feel about myselfis how I will feel about my child.
And how I feel about my childis how they will feel about themselves.
Let me give you an example. IfI believe I'm not good enough, which
(26:14):
by the way, is a deeplyburied, subconscious, learned belief
for many high achievers. It isone of those deep beliefs that motivates
all the hard work that has ledto deep success in our lives. Right.
Let me prove to the world thatthis thing I'm most afraid of is
not true. Right. If I believethat about myself. Confirmation bias.
(26:38):
All kinds of brain functionsthat we neuro, neuroscientists have
been studied forever, thatwill get projected onto my child.
If I don't believe I'm goodenough, I will see evidence in the
world of not good enough,including in my child. If I. And
by the way, this is so. One ofthe reasons this is so painful is
because we are not aware, weare not actively choosing this. It's
(27:01):
just that the lens, right. Howwe feel inside is what is projected
out into the world around us.It's what we see. If I see that in
my child, and this canmanifest is as my child isn't sleeping
well enough, my child isn'teating well enough, my child isn't
behaving well enough, my childisn't doing well enough in school,
my child doesn't look the wayI want and need them to look. Right.
(27:23):
All these things that we arenot intending to cause harm, it's
just what our brain is doing.And as we parent from that place,
we're sending an unintentionalmessage to our child that they're
not enough. This realization,Leanne, changed my mothering of my
two daughters. I was raised ina family of major Perfectionists
(27:47):
with a lot of anxiety. Andfrom the outside, no one would have
thought that there wasemotional challenge inside the four
walls of our house. But I wasraised by two lawyers who were very
anxious parents who led tobeing these high achievers. And I
was a little girl who wasraised with that same sense of necessity
(28:08):
to prove to the world that Ialso was good enough. And as soon
as I had my little girls and Istarted to watch with what I want
to call neutral curiosity, notjudgmental curiosity, but true like
reflection, reflectivecuriosity, where I'm just wondering,
I began to watch them andbegan to notice that they were doing
(28:31):
things to make sure that Ifelt okay. Which on the one hand
is kind of awesome because itmeans I have really well behaved
children, right, becausethey're sort of behaving in a way
that they know will help mefeel good. But I was determined to
make sure I wasn't raising twodaughters to have the same anxiety
(28:54):
I had growing up. So I dothink it can be really hard to slow
down and ask ourselves thesequestions. But once we begin to notice
that this again, what partmight I be playing in the things
that aren't working for me tobegin to back up and say, hang a
second with true selfcompassion and curiosity, Can I ask
myself the really hardquestions? And can I do my own work
(29:16):
around learning how to trulybelieve that I am enough, that I
am good enough, that I amokay, even when I feel hard things
that I can that. That I canfeel trusting of myself and confident
regardless of whether or not Iget that promotion or get the, you
know, admiration from othersor have the perfect house or whatever
(29:38):
it is, can I still feel okayabout myself on the inside? Once
I've done that work, themessages I send to my child are going
to be very different.
We've just scratched thesurface, Kate, and certainly it is
such an incredibly importanttopic when we think about where we
find ourselves in the worldtoday. But we have run out of time.
(29:59):
I want to thank you, KateKripke, a licensed clinical social
worker, maternal wellnessexpert, author and podcaster. Really
appreciated your time and yourperspective today.
Thanks for your questions.Yeah. Loved being here.
Thank you. To learn more abouttoday's podcast, guest and topic,
as well as other parentingthemes, visit whereparentstalk.com.
Welcome to the Where ParentsTalk podcast. We help grow better
parents through science,evidence and the lived experience
of other parents. Learn how tobetter navigate the mental and physical
health of your tween teen oryoung adult through proven expert
advice. Here's your host,Lianne Castelino. Are you a high
(00:27):
achieving parent? Doexpectations of yourself manifest
in your children? Are yourexpectations of your children anxiety
inducing? Welcome to WhereParents Talk. My name is Lianne Castelino.
Our guest today is a licensedclinical social worker and a certified
perinatal mental healthcounselor. Kate Kripke helps support
(00:49):
the emotional well being ofmothers from conception onwards.
She's also an author, apodcast host, a speaker, and the
founder of the Calm ConnectionSystem. Kate is also a mother of
two teenagers and she joins ustoday from Boulder, Colorado. Thank
you so much for taking thetime, Leanne.
I'm really thrilled to behere. Thank you for having me.
(01:11):
We are talking about a subjectthat many parents, especially today,
can likely relate to and thatis high achieving parenting. What,
first of all, is a highachieving parent?
Great question. High achievingparents are those of us who set our
sights on reaching our goalsand meeting achievements above and
(01:35):
beyond everything else. Sothat's those of us who have sort
of tend towards perfectionistthinking, all or nothing thinking,
really high expectations ofourselves. And often what really
determines whether or not Iconsider someone a high achiever
is are their achievements andtheir goals the basis from which
(01:55):
they determine their sense ofself? So sometimes these moms that
are high achievers might alsobe career driven, sometimes not.
But definitely those of us whostrive really high and will do whatever
we can to meet our goals, evenif that effort is actually getting
in the way of how we want to feel.
So then the next question thatfollows from what you just said then
(02:19):
is how can a high achievingparent impact their child be that
both positively or negatively?
Yeah, great question. I wantto preface this whole conversation
by making sure that we are notcreating a situation for shame and
blame for any of yourlisteners. Because it is really easy
when we ask ourselves thosehard questions as parents and mothers
(02:42):
to go into a spiral of notbeing good enough or failing. And
of course, the tricky part isthat that tends to be the deep hidden
thought process of many highachievers already. Right? Good, bad,
right, wrong, all, nothing.And so let's just set the tone of
we're all in this together,none of us are going to be perfect.
(03:03):
However, I do think it'sreally important that we as parents
understand that how we feelabout ourselves, those deep hidden
Underlying beliefs which areoften fear based. What if I'm not
good enough? What if I fail?What if something bad happens? What
if I'm not okay? Right. Thatthose deep fear based beliefs and
(03:25):
questions we have aboutourselves will get projected onto
our kids. Because our deepestbeliefs, unconscious beliefs, lead
to how we think on a consciousbasis. The kind of thoughts we have,
the responses to life, thosethoughts lead to how we feel emotionally.
Our emotions motivate behaviorand our behaviors, which are often
habits, often very unconscioushabits. Those habits lead to the
(03:46):
results of our life. So ifwe're parenting our kids from a place
of feeling, like my success inparenting determines whether or not
I feel good about myself.We're going to unintentionally get
so hooked into the goal beingthe primary focus instead of the
process of buildingrelationships. Does that make sense?
(04:08):
It does. And what comes to meas you describe it is having the
self awareness to know thatone, you're a high achiever, two,
that you might be projectingthese emotions and sort of expectations
on your kids. What do yousuggest to parents to come to that
self realization in the firstplace in order to then address it?
Yeah, I am a big advocate oflistening to our bodies. I will say
(04:32):
that most of high achievingfolks, and again, not everyone, but
many of us who are highachievers have learned to be high
achievers because slowing downinvites feeling and emotions. And
we probably are also folks whohave not been taught that emotions
are not the problem. So we dowhatever we can to not feel those
(04:56):
unpleasant feelings, includingjump in our head to find the right
answers or analyze things orlook at our to do list. To do more,
to achieve more. And so one ofthe things that I think happens,
especially in parenthood isthat we cannot avoid the unpleasant
feelings. We cannot avoidthem. And to begin to notice, well,
first of all, asking ourselvesthe questions, what was I taught
(05:19):
about uncomfortable emotionswhen I was a child? And what have
I learned to do? To jump outof uncomfortable situations, Whether
that's uncertainty orunpredictability or worry or sadness
or disappointment, and tobegin to notice that when we feel
discomfort in our body, whathappens next for us? What do we quote,
(05:40):
unquote do next? Because ifyou notice that you jump into analytical
thinking or problem solving orgetting up out of your seat to do
something on your to do listor find some other big achievement
to focus on, that's probably asign that you're missing. From my
perspective, one of theimportant, most important parts of
(06:02):
being human, which is thewisdom of our emotions and our Kids
feel so much. So if we don'tknow how to sit with our own emotions,
it's going to be real hard tosit with our kiddos emotions.
There's so much in that, rightthere is how you were raised, how
you were taught to manage yourown emotions. Now dealing with a
(06:22):
different generation, there'sthe idea that we live in a world
that is ultra, some wouldargue, competitive, you know, toxic
achievement is just a built infacet of the world we live in. So
what you're describing in manyways is turning all of that off.
And that is not a small item.So what can a small first step in
(06:46):
your estimation look like?
Yeah, although I want to justsuggest that I'm not sure turning
it all off is either a fairexpectation or a realistic one. And
that's certainly not what I aminviting people to do. That's certainly
not what I have done. I mean Iam a born high achiever and have
(07:08):
really hard to had to workwith what motherhood has looked like
for me because when my kidswere little and I was trying to keep
up and do everything I wasquote unquote supposed to do and
raise these perfect littlehumans who were also very successful.
I mean, I, I, I, I, there's,we can't turn it off. We just need
to get curious about theimpact that that is having in us
(07:30):
and how it's influencing thechoices that we're making. So for
instance, a introductory,introductory question that I ask
myself all the time, I inviteeveryone to ask themselves is what
part? First of all, what's notworking for me in my life? Sometimes
we're not even pausing enoughto ask that question, right? How
am I feeling and how do I wantto feel? Which is a very different
(07:55):
question than many highachievers ask. What many high achievers
ask is what do I want my lifeto look like? What do I want to do?
And that is a veryintellectual analytical question.
It involves doing andachieving. Just in the question there's,
you know, flavors of highachievement, right? But when we ask
(08:16):
how do I want to feel and howam I feeling? Now that's a brave
question because I think itrequires us to slow down and sit
with vulnerability, whichagain, many of us were not taught
was okay to do. The questionthat follows that is what part might
I be playing in the thingsthat aren't working for me? And this
(08:38):
is not where am I to blame andhow is this my fault? I do not want
anyone to ask those questions.But what part might I be playing?
I think a lot of us do notrecognize that we are fueling unintentionally,
of course, a lot of theanxiety, guilt and burnout that we
(08:58):
feel in motherhood. And that'swhere we get to ask ourselves, what
am I telling myself it meansto be a good mom? What's my definition
of good mothering? Quoteunquote. Right. But again, I want
us to consider the possibilityof looking at this from a feeling
based perspective versus adoing and achieving based perspective.
(09:20):
And we can't turn off thesociety and culture's external pressures.
They are there. I mean, Lordknows we are in a generation of parents
who believes that if we're notparticipating in everything in our
children's lives, we'reletting them down somehow. Right.
And yet feelings are never theproblem. So if we can sit back and
(09:44):
consider the possibility thatour emotional discomfort is not a
problem and our children'semotional discomfort is not a problem,
then we can open up more roomto ask ourselves, what choices am
I making that it's leading meto feeling so stressed and tense
and tight and burnt out?
Certainly a very importantdistinction when you talk about doing
(10:05):
versus feeling. That's a greatway to think about it. Your work
with maternal wellness, Kate,has spanned several decades. At this
point, I'm curious as to whatyou are seeing with respect to current
trends as it relates to highachieving women who become moms and
what they're. They're telling you.
(10:26):
Yeah, I mean, the trend is afast paced one in which high achievers
will think to themselves, whatdo I need to give my child and provide
my child with so that theyare, quote, unquote, okay. And I
think the definition of okayoften is, is, you know, feeling good
(10:52):
all the time, being at the topof the class, having all the opportunities
that maybe they didn't have.Right. A lot of it is about, again,
it's sort of about this imageof well being, but the image is from
looking from the outside in.Right. What does it look like to
have a successful child Now? Ithink there are many mothers, whether
(11:13):
they're stay at home moms orworking moms, who have been led to
believe, not from a maliciousplace, but because of the data coming
out around child mentalhealth, that children need to be
seen, heard and understood.Right. We all are hearing that across
platforms. Right. There'sgentle parenting, there's attachment
(11:33):
parenting, there's, you know,this idea that we need to be having
these really importantconversations with our kids all the
time. It is, when we look atthat from a perspective of doing
it is unachievable becausewe're trying to, quote, unquote,
do it all. I invite people tostep back and ask that question again,
(11:55):
how do I want my child to movethrough this world? Most of us are
going to say brave, resilient,emotionally intelligent. And we forget
that that kind of childdevelopment and success in children
requires emotional challenge.So what I'm hearing, to circle back
to your question, is momscoming to me who are almost saying
(12:18):
I don't have time to have thissupport because there's too much
to do. This idea that my jobis to take care of everything outside
of me first and foremost,because taking care of myself, a
I have no time or it's selfishor there's too much to do. And then
we miss the point, which isthat it is literally impossible to
show up for our children theway we want to if we're burnt out.
(12:41):
So it is sort of this insideout perspective versus outside in
perspective about thinkingabout, again, how do I want to feel
as a mother and a woman and ahuman and a participant in this larger
society? And what are thechoices that I'm making or the thoughts
I'm engaging in that aregetting me farther away from that
(13:02):
or closer to that? So again, Ithink it's just this increased pressure
to do, do, do, do withoutrealizing that the feeling in there,
it's the emotional part ofmothering parenting that is the most
helpful for our children. Weneed to slow down and be present
with them in those moments orwe're not teaching them how to be
(13:25):
emotionally resilient. I kindof feel like I went all over the
place with that question. Butdoes that answer the question?
It does. It does. And it doesprovide context generally. And it
also begs the question when itcomes to anxiety, because you talked
about how we feel aboutourselves is often how our kids will
(13:47):
see themselves as well. Yes.Many parents believe when it comes
to anxiety that by hidingtheir own stress, they are protecting
their kids and hiding it fromtheir children. Kate, can you give
us a sense of how do childrenabsorb and internalize their parents
anxiety?
This is my favorite questionand I am so glad you're asking. And
(14:10):
again, it's a perfect questionfor that high achieving parent who's
trying to quote, unquote, doeverything right. Maternal and child
mental health, parental andchild mental health. But I mostly
work with moms, or I work allwith moms. I should say maternal
and child mental health areintimately connected. Why? Because
we communicate safety to theworld, to our children through our
(14:35):
emotional energy. And I don'tmean this necessarily. Woo. Although
of course you can think aboutthat if you want to. But minuscule
facial expressions, body odor,muscle tension, tone of voice, breath
patterns. How we're feeling onthe inside is exhibited in many ways
(14:55):
to our children. We want to beteaching our children that having
a vast experience of emotionsis healthy. In fact, the definition
of mental health is that ourinternal landscape, what we're feeling
inside, matches what'shappening outside. Right? So we want
to make sure our children knowthat it is okay to feel worried,
(15:18):
scared, uncertain,disappointed, sad, angry. Many of
us think that's bad. To showour parents that we feel that way
because ironically, we don'twant to contribute to their emotional
discomfort. However, when wesay we're feeling one thing but exhibiting
something else, this isincredibly confusing to children
(15:41):
because they feel what wefeel. Mirror neurons, exchange of
body energy. You know, littlechildren who sit in our lap, they
feel all the things that wedon't even realize we're putting
off again, the temperature ofour skin, our body tension, our body
odor, our tone of voice. Andquite frankly, the biggest mistake
(16:04):
we might make when a childsays, mommy, are you sad? Or mommy,
what's wrong? Is to say,nothing, I'm fine. Because we're
inadvertently teaching ourchildren two things. Number one,
it's not okay to feel sad ordisappointed or whatever it is that
we're actually feeling. Andtwo, we're teaching them not to trust
(16:24):
their intuition. Best thing wecan do is with total authenticity,
say, yes, I'm feeling, fill inthe blank. And then, and here's what
I'm going to do to be takingcare of myself so that we're offering
that both and I can feel hardthings and still be okay.
(16:45):
So along those same lines,Kate, what are some practical science
based strategies that parentscan look to to regulate their own
emotions in moments of stressand overwhelm?
Beautiful. First thing I wantto remind everybody about is that
our bodies don't know thedifference between real and perceived
threat. Our physiology doesnot know the difference between real
(17:08):
and perceived threat. And 99%of the time what we're telling ourselves
is a problem is not a cris. Itmight be a situation that needs some
figuring out. And it might bereally uncomfortable or really inconvenient,
but not necessarily a quoteunquote problem. So I say that to
folks to really remind peoplehow important it is to pay attention
(17:31):
to what you are thinkingduring the time that you're noticing
your body feel tense andtight. And that's the other important
practice that I Think manydoers and shakers and high achievers
are not used to which iscoming into our body. How am I feeling
in my body? Because our bodytense, tight, hot, you know, achy
(17:55):
or you know, relaxed, open.Sometimes there's a bit of effervescence.
If we're feeling somethingthat's not, you know, a fear based
feeling, those feelings aregoing to tell us what we can do next.
To access parasympatheticnervous system response. Sympathetic
fight, flight or freezeParasympathetic rest and digest.
(18:16):
So one thing is just to getcurious, what is happening in my
body? We know that from aparenting perspective, it doesn't
matter what we say and itdoesn't matter what we do. What matters
is the, the nervous systemresponse from which those words are
coming from. And so before weparent our children, we literally
want to be, this is a bigterm. So I don't want your listeners
(18:38):
to overthink it, but parentour, ourselves. What can I do in
this moment to tend to my ownnervous system? I do have a bit of
a three step practice forthis. Can I share it with your listeners?
Yes.
Okay. And this is all based onthe evidence and the science about
nervous system management andparenting, but it is three steps
and I call it the three Cs.And the three Cs are a process to
(18:59):
move from unpleasant emotionback to more pleasant emotion. Another
way to say this is to movefrom sympathetic nervous system response.
Right? Fight, flight, freezeto rest and digest. Calm, steady,
grounded. Again, to remindfolks, which your listeners may already
know, when we're in a state offight, flight or freeze nervous system
response, our limbic brain ison, is the one that's making, you
(19:23):
know, it's reactive frontalcortex, rational thought, logical
thinking, creatively, problemsolving. We can't access that if
we're in a state of fight,flight or freeze. So whatever comes
next, if we want it to beintentional and grounded and useful,
we've got to quiet that partof our brain that thinks there's
a big problem here. So thethree C's first question. And this
(19:45):
is for, for all of us whenwe're in these moments of like, you
know, noticing our, our, our,our nervous system begin to escalate,
right? We're getting,beginning to get irritated. We're
beginning to feel anxiousabout something. We're beginning
to feel the, the sort of heatof disappointment or anger. First
question, first C. Curiosity.What am I feeling in my body? Sometimes
(20:12):
I ask this question, Leanneand my clients will say I'm feeling
like my Child never listens.Which of course is not a feeling.
That's a thought. So the firstquestion is literally, what am I
feeling? Ah, my. My chestfeels tight, my jaw is clenched,
I'm having a hard timebreathing. What emotion is that?
I'm really frustrated. I'mfeeling anxious or worried. That
(20:35):
first C is so important. Andagain, many of us who are taught
that it's not safe or not okayto feel unpleasant emotion will not
take the time to ask thatquestion because we're really wanting
to lean into the feeling. Fromthe assumption, which is science
backed, that the feelings arenever the problem. They can be really
uncomfortable, reallyinconvenient, but not a problem.
(20:59):
And not a problem for adultswith fully functioning brains. Right?
We know that children actuallydon't have the brain capacity to
process big emotion on theirown, which is part of why we're doing
this. Because if our childrenstruggle, if our child is struggling,
we want to be able to sitsteady with them through their struggle.
What am I feeling in my body?What emotion is that? Second c. Compassion.
So much research on the valueof self compassion in nervous system
(21:24):
management. Self compassionmeans meeting ourselves where we
are. It's not cheerleading.Come on, you can do this. You're
doing fine, right? It's gonnaget better. It's truly allowing ourselves
to feel exactly as we feel. Wewon't have time to get into something
I'm gonna mention here on thiscall. But many of us have these beliefs
I keep mentioning aboutemotions being bad and not being
(21:47):
okay. And it's reallyimportant to be able to challenge
those beliefs that you mayhave learned when you were a child.
Because the second part,compassion, means we're going to
give ourselves permission tofeel exactly what we're feeling.
Of course I'm feeling thisway. I've asked my child three times
to do their homework or puttheir shoes on, or come to the dinner
table or stop throwing food orwhatever it is. Of course I'm feeling
(22:09):
frustrated. My feeling makessense. I'm in a moment. I do not
know what to do. My child iscrying and I can't figure out how
to settle my child. Of courseI'm feeling anxious. Our brains are
wired to feel anxious in timesof uncertainty and unpredictability.
So that second C is trulyabout just meeting ourselves where
we are. Once we've done thosetwo things, we can move on to choice.
(22:32):
Many of us, the reason we willhigh achievers, especially the reason
we'll get sort of quoteunquote scared of giving ourselves
permission to feel what we'refeeling is because we're afraid we're
going to get all consumed byit and there's no time. Right. How
often I hear that from myclients. I don't have time to feel
the feeling. I've got too muchto do. Right. There's data around
(22:52):
the passing of feelings, too.90 seconds. If we let ourselves feel
those feelings, it doesn'ttake a whole lot of time. But that
third c, we finally get tosay, okay, how do I want to feel?
This is where agency comes in.And there's a lot of data that talks
about how when we feel like wedo not have choice and control, our
nervous system escalates. Thisis for us, and this is for our children.
(23:16):
So this third c choice gets usback into agency. How do I want to
feel in this moment? I don'twant to feel overwhelmed. I don't
want to feel ragey. I don'twant to feel terrified. I want to
feel grounded. I want to feelcalm. I want to feel connected to
my child. Great. What are thethoughts we can engage in that will
get us closer to that feeling?I can remind myself that feelings
(23:38):
are not the problem. I can,you know, remind myself that my child
is a child and all of theirbehaviors are reflections of how
they feel. And kids feel bigfeelings all the time. I can remind
myself that I'm literallydoing the best I can in this moment.
These are thoughts that mighthelp us feel more grounded. And then
the action steps, the choices.This is so important because we can't
(24:00):
have all this just live in ourbrain. We need to pull this into
action. What baby step actionscan I take that will move me from
overwhelmed and ragey andexhausted to calm and connected and
maybe a little more confident?Well, I can put my hand on my heart
and take a deep breath. I canpick up my child and go stand outside
(24:21):
in the sunshine and, you know,move, move. You know, move the. The
environment that we're in. Ican get down at my child's level
and look them in the eye andreflect back to them. Wow. We are
both having a really hard timeright now, aren't we? I can drink
a glass of water. I can put onsome music. I mean, there's all kinds
of things that we can do thatwill help us shift from that more
(24:43):
unpleasant emotion to thatmore pleasant emotion. What gets
in the way for many highachievers is this idea of time. Not
having time. This is a bigthing for many high achievers. There's
not enough time. The irony isthat when we Take the quote, unquote,
time to slow down, allow forthe feeling, meet ourselves where
(25:07):
we are and take a step, smallbaby step action. Everything after
that moves more easily. Soit's not about not feeling the first
feeling. It's about givingourselves permission to access other
feelings at the same time.That makes sense.
It does. And you've done suchan incredible job of laying it out
in terms of providing thecontext and sort of approaches for
(25:28):
parents. Kate, if you were toleave high achieving parents with
one thing that they need to beaware of.
Yeah.
In raising a child in today'shigh achieving culture, what would
that be?
This is a painful realizationand a deeply empowering one. How
(25:51):
I feel about myself, reallyunderneath all the layers that I've
put on myself throughout myyears of becoming successful in this
world, how I feel about myselfis how I will feel about my child.
And how I feel about my childis how they will feel about themselves.
Let me give you an example. IfI believe I'm not good enough, which
(26:14):
by the way, is a deeplyburied, subconscious, learned belief
for many high achievers. It isone of those deep beliefs that motivates
all the hard work that has ledto deep success in our lives. Right.
Let me prove to the world thatthis thing I'm most afraid of is
not true. Right. If I believethat about myself. Confirmation bias.
(26:38):
All kinds of brain functionsthat we neuro, neuroscientists have
been studied forever, thatwill get projected onto my child.
If I don't believe I'm goodenough, I will see evidence in the
world of not good enough,including in my child. If I. And
by the way, this is so. One ofthe reasons this is so painful is
because we are not aware, weare not actively choosing this. It's
(27:01):
just that the lens, right. Howwe feel inside is what is projected
out into the world around us.It's what we see. If I see that in
my child, and this canmanifest is as my child isn't sleeping
well enough, my child isn'teating well enough, my child isn't
behaving well enough, my childisn't doing well enough in school,
my child doesn't look the wayI want and need them to look. Right.
(27:23):
All these things that we arenot intending to cause harm, it's
just what our brain is doing.And as we parent from that place,
we're sending an unintentionalmessage to our child that they're
not enough. This realization,Leanne, changed my mothering of my
two daughters. I was raised ina family of major Perfectionists
(27:47):
with a lot of anxiety. Andfrom the outside, no one would have
thought that there wasemotional challenge inside the four
walls of our house. But I wasraised by two lawyers who were very
anxious parents who led tobeing these high achievers. And I
was a little girl who wasraised with that same sense of necessity
(28:08):
to prove to the world that Ialso was good enough. And as soon
as I had my little girls and Istarted to watch with what I want
to call neutral curiosity, notjudgmental curiosity, but true like
reflection, reflectivecuriosity, where I'm just wondering,
I began to watch them andbegan to notice that they were doing
(28:31):
things to make sure that Ifelt okay. Which on the one hand
is kind of awesome because itmeans I have really well behaved
children, right, becausethey're sort of behaving in a way
that they know will help mefeel good. But I was determined to
make sure I wasn't raising twodaughters to have the same anxiety
(28:54):
I had growing up. So I dothink it can be really hard to slow
down and ask ourselves thesequestions. But once we begin to notice
that this again, what partmight I be playing in the things
that aren't working for me tobegin to back up and say, hang a
second with true selfcompassion and curiosity, Can I ask
myself the really hardquestions? And can I do my own work
(29:16):
around learning how to trulybelieve that I am enough, that I
am good enough, that I amokay, even when I feel hard things
that I can that. That I canfeel trusting of myself and confident
regardless of whether or not Iget that promotion or get the, you
know, admiration from othersor have the perfect house or whatever
(29:38):
it is, can I still feel okayabout myself on the inside? Once
I've done that work, themessages I send to my child are going
to be very different.
We've just scratched thesurface, Kate, and certainly it is
such an incredibly importanttopic when we think about where we
find ourselves in the worldtoday. But we have run out of time.
(29:59):
I want to thank you, KateKripke, a licensed clinical social
worker, maternal wellnessexpert, author and podcaster. Really
appreciated your time and yourperspective today.
Thanks for your questions.Yeah. Loved being here.
Thank you. To learn more abouttoday's podcast, guest and topic,
as well as other parentingthemes, visit whereparentstalk.com.
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