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April 12, 2025 33 mins

In this episode of the Where Parents Talk podcast, host Lianne Castelino speaks with Dr. David Yeager, a renowned developmental psychologist, author, and father of four, about the science behind motivating tweens, teens, and young adults.

A former grade school teacher and current Professor of Psychology at the University of Texas at Austin, Dr. Yeager challenges common misconceptions about adolescent behaviour. He explains why shifting our mindset—from seeing teens as problems to recognizing their potential—is essential for effective parenting and teaching.

As co-founder of the Texas Behavioural Science and Policy Institute, Dr. Yeager draws on his extensive research in adolescent development, motivation, engagement, and mental health. He explores how communication styles and feedback can either uplift or discourage young people, and shares actionable strategies from his new book, 10 to 25, to help teens thrive.

Key Takeaways:

  • Understanding adolescent hormonal changes can improve communication and connection.
  • Mindful device use is critical to protecting teen mental health and social development.
  • Open dialogue and encouragement of independence help parents counteract bullying.
  • Early, honest conversations about consent and relationships support healthier teen development.
  • Combining high expectations with empathy builds resilience and social media smarts.
  • Evolving your parenting approach can better support your teen’s emotional well-being and autonomy.

Links referenced in this episode:


Companies mentioned in this episode:

  • University of Texas at Austin
  • Texas Behavioral Science and Policy Institute

This podcast is for parents, guardians, teachers and caregivers to learn proven strategies and trusted tips on raising kids, teens and young adults based on science, evidenced and lived experience.

You’ll learn the latest on topics like managing bullying, consent, fostering healthy relationships, and the interconnectedness of mental, emotional and physical health.

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Welcome to the Where ParentsTalk podcast. We help grow better
parents through science,evidence, and the lived experience
of other parents. Learn how tobetter navigate the mental and physical
health of your tween teen oryoung adult through proven expert
advice. Here's your host,Lianne Castelino.
What are the keys tomotivating young people today? Is

(00:28):
it a question of nature,nurture, both, or something else?
Welcome to Where Parents Talk.My name is Leanne Castellino. Our
guest today is a leadingdevelopmental psychologist, ranked
in the top point 1% among hispeers worldwide over the past 10
years. Dr. David Yeager is aprofessor of psychology at the University

(00:48):
of Texas at Austin and cofounder of the Texas Behavioral Science
and Policy Institute. Hisresearch focuses on adolescent development
in relation to engagement,motivation, and mental health. Dr.
Yeager is a former gradeschool teacher, an author, and a
father of four. His latestbook is called 10 to 25 the Science

(01:11):
of Motivating Young People. Agroundbreaking approach to leading
the next generation and makingyour own life easier. Dr. Yeager
joins us today from Austin,Texas. Thank you so much for being
here.
Yeah, thanks for having me.
I'm interested to start byasking you what led you from being
a middle school teacher tothen becoming a global thought leader

(01:34):
in developmental psychology asit relates to adolescence?
Yeah, I really started outwith a set of puzzles and questions
that baffled me as a teacher.I mean, anyone who's worked with
young people will tell youthat they have this feeling of having
something perfectly plannedout in your mind of how this interaction
is going to go, or a lessonplan or a practice if you're a coach

(01:57):
and it just doesn't go the wayyou imagined it. And I felt the sense
that nobody was, like,surprised that it was challenging
for me as a teacher and acoach and so on. Instead, they kind
of just pat you on the backand say, oh, you know, teenagers
are the worst, and I'm reallysorry, but you, there's nothing you

(02:18):
can do about it. And thatalways just felt weird to me. Like,
why are we giving up on anentire age group? I mean, you don't
see someone who has a baby andyou're like, oh, man, babies are
terrible. Like, you know, yougoo and gah and you ogle and you,
you know, squeeze and hug andkiss the baby and. But the minute
puberty strikes, we give up.And so I left the classroom ultimately

(02:42):
because I felt like we neededa science with a different perspective,
a perspective in which wethink about maybe what's right with
young people rather thanwhat's wrong with them and what we
adults can do differently. Andthat's what I've dedicated my life
to.
Ever since then, you'veauthored many, many publications
and papers, but 10 to 25 isyour first book. So understanding

(03:04):
sort of the context that youjust provided and how you went from
the classroom to this area ofresearch, what then was the impetus
for writing this book?
Yeah, so the we. Once Idecided to become a researcher, I
ended up conducting theselarge scale experiments and my goal
was to try to give advice topeople in schools so that way they

(03:26):
felt like there's somethingreal and practical that they could
implement. And so I kind ofaimed the tools of rigorous social
science at these perennialpuzzles. Things like how do you give
critical feedback to somebodyso that they don't get offended,
but instead get motivated? Orhow do you prevent the onset of depression
or anxiety that oftenaccompanies a hard time like the

(03:49):
transition to high school? Oreven how do you get kids to eat healthy
or stop cheating or whateverit is? And we had these findings
and often what would happen isthey get covered by the media and
it be nice and people wouldhear about it, but there's no way
for someone who could consumethat media to know what to do. You
know, like what should theysay differently if they're a parent

(04:12):
or a manager or a teacher or acoach. And so I ultimately wanted
to have a, a more practicalguide that takes the findings from
our research, but also pairsit with real stories of people who
have kind of figured it outand have figured out how to interact
with young people so thatthey're motivated. And I, I kind

(04:32):
of went on a journey oflearning for several years and stopped
a lot of my conventionalacademic research. So that way I
could find these people who Icall mentors or mentor mindset leaders
who have figured out how toengage young people in ways that
stop them from having to pulltheir hair out that things aren't
going well, and instead leavethemselves feeling inspired and motivated

(04:55):
to change the world.
So during the time that youspent doing this research, was there
a particular finding that gaveyou pause?
Yeah, I mean, very early on Iwas struck by a puzzle which is that
many of our well intentionedefforts to try to influence adolescents

(05:18):
don't work. So dare, forinstance, people may know about that
that's an anti drug programthat's in a huge proportion of schools
in America. When for me in the80s we had DARE and it's everywhere
and it doesn't work. Not onlydoes it not work, it potentially
increases substance use amongkids and teenagers just say no. Another

(05:40):
anti drug campaign had thesame kind of effect. The average
effect of an anti obesityprogram for youth is that they gain
more weight after being in theprogram compared to a control group.
So it's not just ineffective,it's like backfiring. Same thing
with anti bullying in highschool. That's where we're often

(06:00):
worried about bullying becauseit leads to things like school shootings
and suicide and all thoseother policy concerns. The average
effect of an anti bullyingprogram for high school is to increase
bullying. And you know, in allthese domains the supposed experts
are developing the programs.The people with the most PhDs and
publications and credentialsand like, how can like our supposedly

(06:23):
smartest people be like so badat their jobs? And I don't think
it's a problem of not caringor like an ethical problem. I think
ultimately we have this thefully wrong view of young people.
And because it's the wrongview, then whenever we get around
to designing a program forthem, we design programs that aren't

(06:44):
going to work because it'slike, it's like we got the wrong
model of what's going to workwith kids. And so that was like surprising
to me that it's like, it's notlike there were lots of pockets of
success or areas where we getit right. It's kind of like as a
society we're terrible atinteracting with young people and
it's showing up in the data.But no one had sat down and said

(07:07):
wait a second, how come all ofthese things fail? It's not like
one program, one time is likeall of our ideas are bad as a society.
So that I think leads us toquestion our mental model of young
people.
So when you say that we havethe wrong view of young people, could
we unpack that a little bit interms of what is the widely held

(07:29):
view of young people currentlyand what should it be in your view
based on your research?
Yeah, so I think that the mostcontemporary view that is slightly
based in science and also inintuition is that teenagers brains
are underdeveloped. They lackwhat's called the prefrontal cortex.

(07:52):
So they're unable to plan forthe future or think ahead or make
rational decisions or have asmart trade off decision in their
minds. Because of that, thentheir judgment and decision making
can't be trusted. Andtherefore if we're worried about
them, then we the adultsshould make all the decisions for
them. And our goal should beto try to control young people as

(08:15):
best we can. Or a related viewis that society has been too tough
for young people. It's beenvery stressful and traumatic and
they've been through Covid andtheir brains are addicted to screens
and social media and turn tomush and all these other things.
And because of that, then allwe can do is like protect them until

(08:37):
they turn into adults. Youknow, better if we could lock them
in a closet until they're 25.And the contemporary reason why people
think this is because ofneuroscience suggesting that the
kind of emotion reward regionsof the brain start becoming hyperactive
during puberty. And the moreplanful, logical, goal directed regions

(09:00):
of the brain, like theprefrontal regions are slower to
develop. And so you've gotthis all gas, no brakes metaphor.
And like I understand whypeople say that, but that's like
an ancient idea. I mean, Platois writing about that same idea in
the Theodrus in his dialogue.And you know, Shakespeare in the
Winter's Tale is saying, youknow, like, I wish we could just
lock these kids in a closetuntil their mid-20s. And so it's

(09:23):
an ancient idea that's beendressed up in a lot of modern neuroscience
and it's not really accurateat a neuroscientific level. The,
what we now understand is thatthe prefrontal regions of the brain
are for goal directedbehavior. And teenagers are great
at goal directed behavior.It's just not the goals adults want
them to be directing theirattention to. Like if you, if you

(09:46):
ask a teenager to factor a lotof worksheets of trinomials, a lot
of them are like, no thanks, Iprefer to not do that. But if you
ask them to sneak out of thehouse and go to a party, like who
they can plan weeks inadvance, like, who do I have to lie
to? Like how, where's the mapof the sewers? You know, and so this
idea that, that theircognitive abilities are just more

(10:08):
tethered to what motivatesthem, that's the first idea. It's,
it's not that they can't everthink, it's that they're, they deploy
their thinking strategicallyin response to motivation. And second
of all, what motivates them isa slightly different set of things
than a lot of adults. And it'sthis kind of really strong concern

(10:30):
with status and respect in theeyes of peers and also authority
figures. Once you understandthat, then you can realize that like
most programs or most effortsto influence teenagers behavior are
like very disrespectful. Likethey imply that they come from this
old model that the teenagebrain is broken and therefore the
smart adult brain needs to doall the thinking. Whereas, well,

(10:52):
that's a very insultingimplication to say to like a 14 year
old. And they pick up on thatimmediately. And then they don't
comply with what we ask themto do because they feel insulted
and disrespected. And then wesay, well, that must be because your
brain is too dumb. And it'slike we blame them for something
that was really ourcommunication problem that's growing

(11:12):
out of our incorrect mentalmodel of young people. And I just,
I see that again and again. Imean, just even take, just say no.
Right? Just say no impliesthat I, the smart adult, know what
you should say yes and no to.And if only you would listen to my
smart adult brain, then youwould be healthy. And teenagers are
like, you're not a credibleauthority on what makes me happy,

(11:33):
so I'm not going to listen to you.
So taking all of that intoaccount and the context there is
really quite powerful whatyou've provided. What fundamentally
then do you suggest parentsneed to understand in order to understand
the science behind motivatinga young person?

(11:53):
Yeah. Once you realize thatthe problem is not just that, you
know, Gen Z is broken or thatsociety these days has ruined everything,
and you instead realize thatthere's a perennial conflict between
adults who think they knowwhat's better than better for young
people and young people whomay not agree. And, and furthermore,

(12:15):
once you realize that what,what looks like incompetence in the
teenage brain can often bejust a response to how we've communicated
as adults, then I share thiswith a lot of parents and a lot of
parents like, oh my God, likeI'm creating the very behavior I'm
complaining about and peopledon't want to admit that they prefer

(12:36):
to say, no, my kid screwed up,it's not me. But once you, once we
realize, okay, well, we're notdoing some things right, then the
hopeful part is that there areways of tailoring our communication
styles so that way they attendto the status and respect that young
people want and need. And alot of these things are not that

(12:58):
hard to do. And so an examplecoming out of the scientific experiments
that we've conducted issomething we call wise feedback.
This is developed initially byJeff Cohen, a Stanford social psychologist.
So I want to credit hisinnovation. And the basic idea is
that when you criticizesomebody's work, we think we're being
helpful as like a leader.Right. So if you're a journalist

(13:21):
and you're critiquingsomebody's story, you're like, oh,
great, I'm helping you becomea better journalist. The person from
their perspective though,might view it as, oh, this powerful
person who has a lot of statusviews me as incompetent. And because
they think I'm incompetent,then I feel terrible actually getting
this feedback and I'd preferto not get it at all. And so what

(13:43):
we've found is that simplyclarifying that the feedback was
coming from a good place,specifically that I'm holding you
to really high standardsbecause I believe that you can meet
those standards if youimplement the support I've given
you. That turns what felt likean insult if you're not good enough
and turns it into acompliment, like, I'm taking you

(14:05):
so seriously that I, because Ibelieve in you, that I'm now giving
you this feedback. And thisfeedback is a sign of the respect
I'm showing you and yourpotential and that small shift in
frame. And our randomizedexperiment doubled the rate at which
teenagers complied with whatadults had asked them to change.

(14:27):
In our case, it was revisingan essay in their social studies
class. That thing suggeststhat once we realize the language
of communication is often donewrong, or at least in a way that
is a mismatch with youngpeople's desire for status and respect,
then we can start looking forbetter ways of communicating. And

(14:48):
if you do that moreconsistently, then not only do you
get compliance, but youactually end up with more agentic,
independent young people whogo out of their way to do the right
thing because it is somethingthat they want to do, not because
something they're forced to do.
In the book, you also talkabout, and you mentioned it earlier,
you alluded to it earlier, thementor mindset. Why is that important?

(15:11):
What is it? And what doparents need to know about it?
Yeah, so the mentor mindset isjust, it grew out of the realization
that we had these experiments,like the wise feedback experiment
I just explained. And we'relike, well, why is it the case that
in a world in which it seemsso impossible to influence young
people, something so small asa post it note, we put on somebody's

(15:34):
essay that says, I have highstandards and I believe in your potential,
that that could work. And westarted wondering if maybe there's
a communication style thatsome adults have figured out for
whatever reason that isallowing them to kind of chronically
communicate that highstandards and high support message.

(15:54):
And we, we ended up callingthat style a mentor mindset. And
so why do we call it a Mindsetrather than the mentor leadership
style. Because we realizedthat you would only go out of your
way to clarify your highexpectations, your belief in their
potential. If youfundamentally thought that they had

(16:16):
potential, you wouldn't do it.If you thought teenagers brains were
idiotic and about to maketerrible decisions, you wouldn't
relinquish any authority. It'slike a teacher who thinks the kids
are about to get so unrulythat they ruin the lesson plan at
any minute and so they rulewith an iron fist. But then of course,
the second the teacher leavesthe room or lets down their guard,

(16:38):
then, you know, all hellbreaks loose and kids are swinging
from the rafters. And so thereare, there are adults who figured
out that if you first changeour beliefs, our own mindsets about
young people and view them as,but having the potential to do impressive
things when we set the rightconditions, when we create a relationship

(17:01):
of respect and status andautonomy, et cetera, then all of
a sudden it's like, all right,well it makes sense for me to have
this mentor mindset and the,the other alternative, besides the
kind of they're short sightedand they need to be controlled is,
is this alternative I call aprotector mindset. And this is the

(17:24):
idea that young people are, asI alluded to earlier, broken, stressed,
anxious, etc. And thereforewe, we need to just protect them
from harm and discomfort. Andthat's our job. Because they can't
handle any higher standards.And if they, if we did maintain high

(17:46):
standards, they would, theywould crumble. You know, they're
brittle like a house of cards.And so again, like your beliefs about
young people shape the styleand the approach you take. If you
think they're unruly, then youadopt what I call in the enforcer
mindset. If you think they'relike broken and traumatized, you
adopt the protector mindset,think they have great potential under

(18:08):
the right conditions. Then youadopt this mentor mindset style and
it ends up being turning outthat lots of research over 80 years
has discovered that thatcombination of high standards and
high support has a kind ofmagical quality. And no one had really
pulled it together into oneframework the way I did across management,

(18:28):
parenting, et cetera. But it'sa, it's an idea that has had its
day in many different fieldsand therefore it's something you
could build on. It's not likea fad psychological finding. It's
something that's been aroundfor a long time and therefore we
can trust as a style that'sgoing to work ultimately with Our
young people along those lines.
In many families and with manyparents, there can be a struggle

(18:51):
with balancing highexpectations of that young person
with providing them support.So how can parents go about trying
to get that balance optimally correct?
Yeah, I mean, look, you know,I'm a parent of four, and there's
plenty of mediocre parentinghappening at my house, so I'm not
going to act like this is alleasy. I mean, you know, I write a

(19:14):
lot of my book about therealities of implementing mentor
mindset practices. And, and mygoal was not to write a book that
was like one of those dietbooks that says, oh, the way to lose
weight is to never eat any ofthe food that you enjoy. Like, that's
an impractical line of, youknow, recommendations. And similarly,
I don't think for parenting,the idea is to think of it in an

(19:37):
all or nothing way. You're notlike, always an enforcer or always
a protector. We can alwaysbecome more of a mentor. And so the
way I like to think about itis that people tend to come to an
interaction with a youngperson with one or the other either
the standards or the supportthat we. We think of them first as

(19:57):
maybe kind of incompetent. Butwe say, the one thing I'm going to
not compromise on is, is mytough standards. Like, I'm not going
to relent. You're going tolearn that the world is a, you know,
a tough place and I'm going tobe firm. Or people say I'm going
to prioritize care, like, I'mgoing to rest my head on my pillow
every night and know at leastthat they know that I love them.

(20:22):
And if we acknowledge thatmany people already instinctually,
instinctually end up in one ofthose two protector or enforcer,
then rather than think ofourselves as though I'm a one version
of a bad parent, it's morelike, all right, how do I add the
other side of it? I tend to bean enforcer. Got high standards.
Great. Add the support. Makesure that your young person has the,

(20:44):
like, logistical flexibilitythat's necessary to meet your high
standards. Right. Instead ofyelling at them for not meeting the
standard, teach them how tomeet the standard. Connect them with
others, mentors, et cetera, sothat way they can live up to your
expectations. Collaborate withthem on your expectations. You know,
those are all things you cando to increase the support. So that

(21:04):
way you go from enforcer tomentor, where you've got both on
the protector side, you'reprioritizing care, you're really
supportive, but you're apushover. You've got low standards.
Okay, add the standards,continue supporting, but start expecting
more. And what does that mean?It doesn't mean expecting young people
to do everything completely ontheir own overnight, but it does

(21:28):
mean gradually transferringindependence and responsibility to
young people and expectingthem to do things that are, that
are above and beyond what wewould expect previously. And so I
think that the first approachis to address our own mindsets, like
do we have these enforcer orprotector beliefs? Second, whatever

(21:48):
our instinct is, add the otherone. And third, probably the most
important thing is to giveourselves a little bit of leeway
and realize that we're notgoing to get it right every time.
And that's okay because we canget do overs. This is something I
learned from a parenting coachI write about in my book, Lorena
Seidel, who I love and deeplyadmire. And the finding is that you

(22:13):
can have some interaction witha young person where you fall into
an enforcer. You know, youyell at your kid or you're overly
harsh. You can go back to themand say, you know, I didn't live
up to my family values there.I still need you to do what I was
asking you to do, but I shouldhave been more curious about why
it was hard for you. So canyou explain to me what was holding

(22:35):
you back? So that way we cantroubleshoot together so you can
get a do over. And then kidsoften remember the do over far more
than they remember the initialblow up.
So what would you then say toa parent who takes everything that
you've just described andsays, you know what, that makes a
world of sense, but my childreally has a lot of self doubt and

(22:57):
low self esteem. Where canthat parent and what can that parent
do next to get on the rightpath and hopefully adopt some of
what you're talking about?
Yeah, I mean, and you know,we've got, I've got two neurodiverse
kids and so we have lots ofchallenges and then, and there's
no easy formula. What worksfor one kid doesn't work for another.

(23:19):
But I would say so I, Ithought you were going to say, what
do you do with a kid who is soimpulsive that there's impossible
to get them to follow a highstandard? You know, and that's what
I worry about in my house. ButI actually think that the problem
of kids lacking confidence isit, it's conceptually an easier problem.

(23:42):
I mean, it's hard to pull offbecause the people, the thing people
Misunderstand about selfesteem is. It's not just like a story
you tell yourself about howmuch you like yourself. So it's not,
it's not very stable if it'sfounded on lies or what other people
told you, like told you,you're great. It, it's founded on

(24:06):
an authentic sense that otherpeople view you as a person of worth
and competence and value. Andthe evolutionary stories is interesting.
It's like, you know, if you'vegot teenagers who are roaming the
Savannah, you know, andthey're a bunch of teenage boys trying
to hunt or protect the tribe,you know, from another tribe. Like,

(24:26):
if they're sitting there likea lump on a log, not doing anything,
at some point the other peoplein the tribe are going to stop bringing
the meat and stop protectingthem from the warring tribe, right?
They're like, you're out ofhere, right? And so the, the concept
of ostracism, right, has thisvery ancient and deep root. And of
course, on the Savannah,without modern civilization, if you're

(24:47):
alone, you die. And so thecost of lacking social value in the
eyes of the group or the tribeis death. And it's not an exaggeration
that is the consequence,right? And the animal kingdom too.
Like, if you're a teenagechimp and you're viewed as like,
bringing no status to thetable, you'll never mate and you

(25:08):
just die alone. And so theconverse of that, though, is that
nothing feels as good asauthentically demonstrating your
competence and value in theeyes of people whose opinions you
care about. Theanthropologists call this earned
prestige. That you're, you'reearning a reputation through your
actions. And prestige isdifferent than power. Like, you can

(25:31):
have power just by inheritingresources, right? Or being tall,
right? Your parents can makeyou powerful with inheritance, but
they cannot give you prestige.Prestige is only earned through things
that you do and that is, thatare observed by other members of
your group who, whose opinionscount. And so the long, this is a

(25:54):
long way of saying authenticself esteem comes from kids doing
things that are viewed as rareor hard or not everyone does them
or valuable. And so usuallythose are. Those kinds of accomplishments
are things where you have todeliberately practice. And it's painful

(26:15):
and difficult, whether it'spracticing your scales for cello
or rewriting your, your scriptfor debate or practicing your baseball
swing or, you know, runningharder and longer than others or
whatever the activity is,right? Like achieving some level
of competence that noteveryone would or could achieve is

(26:36):
an authentic source of statusand prestige. And it's A direct contributor
to self esteem. And so like I,I spend a lot of time as a parent
like engineering ways for mykids to get good at things. And I
honestly don't care what itis. It's not like they have to be
good at soccer or hockey orwhatever. It's like whatever they
show an interest in, be a goodone. Because eventually you get an

(27:00):
authentic sense of esteem inthe eyes of your peers when you're
just not awful at everything.And so there's more I could say.
But I think that often whatparents do is they're like, I need
to protect your self esteem byhaving you not experience any failure
because if you fail publiclyin front of others, you're going
to crumble. But the only wayto get authentic self esteem that

(27:23):
lasts when our kids are notaround us and we're not hugging them
to death is that they have todo things that not everyone would
do. And that's usually hardand usually involves failure. So
the best gift we can give themis not quote, failure, but skill
that comes from failure riddenexpertise development in whatever
domain or field they getinterested in.

(27:45):
Now you talk about peers andI'm curious as to what you think
parents need to understandduring the adolescent phase of development
where a young person's socialrelationships tend to trump their
relationships with theirparents. Why is that important for
parents to understand?
Well, the, the research islike really interesting on that point.

(28:07):
Like it's not, it's not reallythe case that peers always trump
parents. How do I explain? So,so in the old days people would claim
in the literature, like theminute puberty starts, kids only
care about their peers andthey just hang out with them. And

(28:30):
so you could look at time ofthe amount of time that they spend
with their peers versus theirparents and they're like a lot more
for peers now it's a littledifferent because often kids are
communicating with their peersthrough devices, but they're around
their parents and so we'rethere. But also it was never the
case that kids stopped caringwhat parents cared about. They instead

(28:52):
change what they care about interms of the parents opinions. So
like, like my opinion of whatmy daughter should wear as a freshman
in high school to school isnot a valuable opinion. Like she
doesn't care like at all whatI say and I don't say anything. I
mean, I don't even say youlook nice like, because then it's

(29:13):
like, well what do you mean?Did I not look like yesterday? Like
it's, I'm not a credibleauthority on that, but we talk every
day about like, what summerschool classes she should take or
like doing Khan Academy forPSAT or, you know, like, I'm a credible
authority on that kind ofstuff. And similarly with my seventh
grade, eighth grade son, like,he doesn't care my opinions about

(29:38):
Skibidi, Rizzler, Sigma Ohioor all this other nonsense that they
say all the time, right? Like,he's like, doesn't matter if I say
it around my friends, theythink it's funny. And so I'm going
to say it no matter what. Butlike, he really cares what I think
about his baseball swingbecause, like, I know something about
that, you know? And so, sothere's. So I think the first big

(30:01):
insight is that it's kind of aproblem that we think, oh, they're
teenagers, therefore theydon't care what we think. And then
we don't have criticalconversations with them. Like, you
have to invest in those reallyhard conversations. And furthermore,
when we're silent on a wholebunch of important life decisions
that they're making, this, thesubtle thing we're communicating

(30:22):
is we don't care about theirimportant life decisions. And so
out of fear, parents are like,I'm not going to broach the topic
of relationships, right, oryour college aspirations or whatever
it is, because they don't carewhat I think. And it's like, that's
wrong. Like, they do care, butthey also want to make up their own
minds ultimately. And so wecan't mistake their desire to form

(30:46):
their own opinion for a lackof concern about our opinion. And
I think the reason why parentsmake that mistake is because when
kids are little, we have totalcontrol over them and all we're doing
is manipulating them toinventing them to our will, right?
I mean, from the moment a babystarts crying because they don't
have a toy, we hide the toy.Like, we take advantage of object

(31:07):
permanence when the baby'slike nine months old, right? And
that's our go to habit asparents is like, the way to avoid
distress is to hide thingsfrom you. Because I'm just trying
to placate you to have. Younever have distress. But like, that's
not a good approach forteenagers. Like, you need to help
them confront distress, figureout what's what, the root causes,

(31:28):
listen, be a sounding board,be patient, all these other things.
And you may not feel like kidsappreciate it in the moment, but
they always appreciate it inthe long run. And the kinds of relationships
where, when kids get tocollege and they screw up or whatever,
they make a difficult lifechoice, but they still come to us,
and then we are there to helpthem through a hard life choice.

(31:51):
That doesn't happen overnight.That happens because parents were
willing to have those hardconversations early on in adolescence.
Dr. Yeager, we're almost outof time, but I did want to ask you,
what do you want readers of 10to 25 to leave with?
I think the most importantthing is this different view of adolescence.

(32:14):
We have to change our mindsetsabout this whole age group. You know,
stop pitying anyone who workswith adolescents and instead start
seeing the. The kind of powerand beauty in the age group. Second
is a sense of hope that we canfigure out how to harness their unique
energies and, and talents. Ithink it's very important. Um, and
the last thing is, like, somevery specific tips. I mean, the do

(32:35):
over is one, the wise feedbackis another. But there are others
in the book like it. When yourkid is stressed, what should you
say? So we've done tons ofexperiments on that and published
them, and we know the answer.And so I'd like people to take these
topics like kids purpose inlife, whether they belong, they're
stressed, they make a poorlife decision, all these hard conversations.

(33:00):
I want parents to feelempowered that there is a better
way and then start adaptingthe insights from the book to their
unique kids. And I think a lotof kids will appreciate that. And
as parents will stop feelinglike we're either a garbage parent
or a great parent and insteadrealize that we are growing and we're
improving and we're adapting,and that's okay, and that's a positive

(33:22):
part of the journey.
Really fascinating insight.Dr. David Yeager, developmental psychologist
and author of 10 to 25. Reallyappreciate your perspective today.
Thank you so much.
Yeah, thanks for having me. Tolearn more about today's podcast,
guest and topic, as well asother parenting themes, visit whereparentstalk.

(33:44):
Com.
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