October 31, 2024 • 44 mins
Eva Ding: Crafting Home Through Music and Artistry | Wherever I Leave My Hat Podcast
Join us on the 'Wherever I Leave My Hat' podcast for an inspiring conversation with Eva Ding, an acclaimed flautist and multidisciplinary creator. Eva shares her extraordinary journey from Shanghai to Auckland and finally New York, delving into how her diverse cultural experiences shape her music and artistry. Through her storytelling, we explore themes of home, distance, and the immigrant experience, all amplified through her musical projects and the innovative ensemble Koei. Eva's narrative is a testament to passion, resilience, and the unifying power of performing arts. Don't forget to like, comment, and subscribe for more inspiring episodes!
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Episode Transcript
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Daniel Rock (00:06):
Often humorously linked, likened to an inflatable
tube man on stage because of herenthusiasm, passion, and
physicality, all flautist andmultidisciplinary creator Eva
Ding ever wants to do is imbuein her audience, the same sense
of joy and richness performingarts bring to her through her
innovative multimedia chambermusic productions.
Eva delves deep into the essenceof the AAPI and immigrant
(00:27):
experience, amplifying theirnarratives through a seamless
blend of music, new media,choreography, set, and lighting
design.
With grants and residencies fromesteemed institutions like
Chamber Music America and LowerManhattan Cultural Council,
shows have left audiencesspellbound.
From sharing the stage withGrammy and Oscar award winning
musician John Batiste,
Eva Ding (00:47):
because we're
Daniel Rock (00:48):
his American Symphony at the iconic Carnegie
Hall, to opening musicfestivities for pro wrestler
Orange Cassidy at electrifyingfamily reunion match, Eva has
proven her versatility andcaptivating stage presence.
Time and again, Eva's careerincludes concerto debuts and
performances alongside ensembleslike the Brooklyn Chamber
(01:09):
Orchestra, the United NationsChamber Music Society, the
Auckland Philharmonic Orchestra,and the Auckland Chamber
Orchestra.
Her unwavering commitment toshowcasing contemporary music
has led to her premier works byrenowned composers, including
the Golden Flute Concerto byChinese American luminary Chen
Yi, And a new orchestralarrangement of cloud boilings
(01:30):
suite for flute and jazz trio.
In 2020, she founded flute,cello, jury, Coey, and I may
have got that wrong.
They are committed to playingthe works of living API and
other BIPOC composers havingpremiered new works or
arrangements by Lee Yang, ZaoLong.
Shanghai born, Auckland raised,and New York based.
(01:50):
Eva received her Bachelor ofMusic with honours from the
University of Auckland under thetutelage of Professor Yui Grodd,
and as a recipient of theManhattan School of Music
President's Scholarship,completed her Masters of Music
there with Robert Langvone,Principal Flutist of the New
York Philharmonic.
In her spare time, Eva lovesplaying with her poodle Choco,
who adores singing along withher flute practice and her
(02:12):
ginger kids and Marigold, whoreally doesn't care either way.
I don't think cats care eitherway for most things.
Eva Ding (02:18):
Nope.
Daniel Rock (02:24):
How are you?
Eva Ding (02:25):
I will.
Thank you so much for having meon.
How are you?
Daniel Rock (02:29):
I'm really, really well.
And thank you so much forjoining us.
Um, and for those who don'tknow, this is the, wherever I
leave my hat podcast, which Ididn't intro at the top, but
I'll do that here.
We're all about talking topeople who have an interesting
take on the concept of home.
And that's why we have Eva Dinghere today with us.
So Eva, why don't you tell us alittle bit about your story,
(02:51):
kind of where you've come fromand where you are at the moment?
Eva Ding (02:55):
Absolutely.
So I was born in Shanghai inChina about five, uh, at five or
six years old, my parents madethe decision to move us over to
Auckland, New Zealand.
and My dad stayed back behind inShanghai because of work and
also to take care of hisparents, my grandparents.
(03:16):
And so it was just me and my momthat moved to New Zealand.
Um, so they made this hugesacrifice.
They continue to be together.
They continue to be married, butwe're just on opposite sides of
the world.
And so I did most of my growingup in New Zealand, um, did my
undergraduate studies there.
while I was in undergrad there.
(03:37):
I'd always known I, I kind ofliked the idea of America.
I knew that America had this,this thriving entertainment
industry, that's arts community,this cultural, you know,
essence.
Um, and so while I was in myundergrad and my third year, I
got a chance to go to UCLA on astudy abroad exchange program
(04:00):
that The University of Auckland,um, and I went there for six
months and I just loved it.
I was like, well, the worstcomes to worst, it could be bad
or like, I don't like it, but atleast I will have tried it.
And that absolutely I just lovedit.
Daniel Rock (04:19):
yeah.
Eva Ding (04:20):
so as, as soon as I did that, I was like, okay, I'm
really going to work hard to do
Daniel Rock (04:25):
Yeah,
Eva Ding (04:30):
for my masters.
And that's what I did.
And so I came to New York, cameto the Manhattan school of
music, and I've just been heresince I've absolutely loved it.
It's, it's been an incrediblejourney far.
Daniel Rock (04:46):
journey is one of those words that it sounds like
a buzzword, but you end up usingbecause there's no better word
to describe it.
It's been kind of co opted bythe sort of Corporate buzz speak
world, but it's still a greatword in specific conversations.
So just touching on a few thingsyou just said to me, I'm really
keen to explore a couple ofthose.
So you mentioned sort of,obviously your parents lived
apart, but stayed very muchmarried very much together.
(05:07):
Um, and because of that, that'sthe sacrifice they made you.
I'd love to hear a little bitmore about potentially how that
may have.
shaped your view of home becauseit's a nontraditional home life.
Like obviously we hearnontraditional in terms of
people perhaps being singleparent families or split
families.
But this is quite unique interms of, they were still very
much together emotionally, butnot physically.
(05:30):
So I'd love to hear a little bitmore about that.
Hmm.
Mm hmm.
Eva Ding (05:43):
Or like, I'm an only child.
And so people were like, hadsiblings.
I'm like, don't know what lifewould have been like.
So who's to say?
Maybe I would have, but maybe itwould have been terrible.
I think that together could havebeen, who's to say, but um, yeah
I think old, you know, being inmy own uh romantic relationships
(06:06):
or being in my own even justrelationships with friends i i
really the steps and thesacrifice and and that they had
to, that my parents had to do toKeep it working and to make
things good for them and goodfor me.
(06:27):
Um, I think growing up, I did alot of traveling or like my dad
would come to New Zealand every,you know, every year or twice a
year.
And my mom and I would go backto Shanghai to visit my
grandparents and him once a yearor twice a year.
And so that was traveling wasalways a very big part of my,
um, like life growing And Ithink also.
Daniel Rock (06:51):
Silence.
Silence.
Eva Ding (07:01):
in me because that's what my parents did.
That's what my mom did for meAnd so I don't think twice about
coming to new york I know and II I other people who have like
been like, oh, this was a bigdecision or even people from
other um States or other citiesin America being like big
decision to move to it's a bigdecision to move somewhere else
(07:24):
I reflect on that and I'm like,yeah it is But I think I just
always been told like thatthat's okay and to explore and
that like my parents were alwaysgoing to be There for me and
like how blessed is that to beable to explore and find your
home and create your own and tothat point I Do With Koei, which
(07:50):
you pronounce beautifully, uh,and with a lot of the
programming work that I do is,um, an homage to them.
Is, is just totally inspired by,them and their life and the
sacrifices they make.
Daniel Rock (08:07):
Just touching on some of that.
How long have you been in NewYork now?
So how long since you left NewZealand to come to New York?
Eva Ding (08:13):
I came in 2017.
Which is now seven years ago,which is an number to think
about.
Cause I was like, Oh, I justarrived.
just got here.
Daniel Rock (08:28):
in terms of that, and obviously you've had a sort
of a split family dynamic alittle bit, but obviously this
is moving to somewhere where youhave no, you didn't have family.
And so you've had to sort ofcreate your own network.
How obviously some of that hascome through the music.
Some of that will have comethrough study.
Some of that come from how haveyou gone about sort of building
that family and home feeling.
(08:49):
In New York.
Eva Ding (08:51):
Absolutely.
Um, I, I often think about thisbecause I think about how lucky
I am that I came here for schooland a very specific school, like
very concentrated, you know,conservatory, music
conservatory.
And so everyone met everyone.
It was pretty small.
So everyone knew everyone duringorientation week.
(09:11):
And I kind of like to joke thatwe suffered together and nothing
bonds people together liketrauma.
All the hours of practice, allthe hours of rehearsals, all the
early morning theory classes, dada da da.
And so I met some of my closest,closest, and even to this day,
closest friends there.
(09:32):
Because we really, Everyoneunderstood what everyone else
was going through.
And so we really banded togetherand supported each other, which
I thought was just as such anincredible dynamic.
Um, yeah.
And then through that, thatexpanded my.
and my community and justthrough through the stuff that
I've been doing through theperformances and and the more
(09:55):
cultural stuff and the more kindof um I wouldn't say advocacy
but advocacy in a way advocacythrough music um I've met people
in that way too.
Daniel Rock (10:08):
And so how did you meet your partner in Koei?
Eva Ding (10:14):
my second year I really wanted to play this piece
for my graduation recital calledVox Ballinae by George Crumb.
It's Latin for Voice of theWhale.
And it's this insane, you know,25 minute piece all, all the way
through no breaks and theperformers are instructed to
(10:35):
wear masks and the lighting issupposed to be blackout except
for blue lighting to emulatethat feeling of being underwater
and everyone's And so it wasflute, cello, and piano,
prepared piano.
I had the pianist, I've beenworking with him, um, throughout
my grad, grad school studies.
(10:57):
I just asked a mutual friend ofthe cellists and I, Hey, do you
know any great cellists andplaying this awesome piece?
I would love to, you know,really meet someone, someone.
really great to collaboratewith.
And he was like, Oh, you've gotit.
Me, Emma, you guys would totallyget along.
You guys totally have the vibe,you know, similar vibes.
And so I asked her on.
Yeah.
Um, and then we, and then mypianist and I graduated and she
(11:21):
was the year below us in gradschool.
then COVID happened.
So everything kind of went tobleep.
Um, and I was just sitting thereat home and I, one of my dear
friends and mentors reached outto me and we were chatting and
she was like, Hey, in a chamberensemble, right?
Like I have a friend.
(11:43):
Who would like to apply for agrant from Chamber Music America
to mentor a chamber ensemble.
she's, you know, she, she'sready to apply.
She just needs a chamberensemble to apply with.
I was like, well, like we're allkind of dispersed.
We, we haven't really playedmuch since graduation.
(12:04):
The pianist is at that point wasoff in D.
C.
because he's an incrediblecollaborative pianist, and he
got into a program with theNational Opera.
And so I was like, he's faraway, but the cellist, yeah,
she's in, she's in New York.
So I called her up and I waslike, Do you want to just apply
to this thing, just you and me?
(12:24):
And at that point, she wastelling me, she was like,
clawing at the walls to dosomething.
So she was like, yes! Yes, we'lldo something!
Daniel Rock (12:32):
Anything, anything.
Eva Ding (12:33):
anything! Yeah?
You want me to play?
I was like, great, yeah, let'sdo it.
So we applied as a duo some ofthe clips of our graduation
recital and some of the stuffthat we had played.
And as much of the two of usplaying as possible and we got
the grant and that was reallyum, and then we got a
(12:56):
performance and a coupleperformances and that was really
the catalyst to being like ohthis could be a thing there's
something here actually andthat's that was a really
exciting spark then.
Daniel Rock (13:11):
Nice.
That's really cool.
And that's a really good start.
Yeah.
COVID did funny things to a lotof people.
Um, my, my wife and I, now wewere, we were back in New
Zealand and, um, we were once Ireally, we weren't super early
in their relation, been a littlewhile, but we hadn't moved in
together yet.
And we were sort of thinking,Oh, we'll talk towards the end
of the year.
And then Auckland went intothat, you know, and, and, and,
and, and, and, and, Enormouslockdown that went from like
(13:31):
July to December.
And it was like that.
Well, if we don't do this now,we won't see each other and we
don't know how long this isgoing to go.
So you kind of make leaps offaith.
I think a little bit when youput in situations like that in
terms of, okay, well, we've gotnothing to lose.
Let's try it.
You know?
And I think that sometimes thebest decisions you make ever
come out of.
Those kind of, well, let's justtry it moments.
(13:52):
You know, I think when youmentioned about, um, going to
New York and saying, well, youknow, if I don't like it in six
months, I'm a huge fan of likenot leaving what ifs, you know,
life is too short to go, I wishI had, or what if I had, you
know, I think if I look back towhen I moved to New Zealand at
22 from the UK, you know, Inearly didn't go.
(14:14):
And then I was like, I rememberhaving a conversation with my
mom, who, you know, my mom didnot want me to move halfway
across the world.
And I remember her going, youjust, you can come back, you
know, no decision isirreversible, you know, you can
come back.
So it was like, well, you know,nothing to lose or try.
And then 23 years later, Ifinally left New Zealand to come
to America, which probablywasn't on the initial.
Plan either.
Um,
Eva Ding (14:35):
you got to try.
What got
Daniel Rock (14:37):
exactly.
Eva Ding (14:39):
What got you
Daniel Rock (14:39):
No, go for it.
Eva Ding (14:40):
what got you interested in New Zealand to
begin with at 22?
So that you,
Daniel Rock (14:45):
Um, as a lot of people do, I admit, I admit a
partner, a woman in the UK.
Um, so we worked together and wewere and we were supposed to do
a year in New Zealand, a year inAustralia, working holidays and
then come back to the UK becauseher, her visa had run out.
She was from New Zealand.
And even when that relationshiphad fizzled, it's fizzled out a
little bit.
(15:05):
Um, or completely fizzled out.
New Zealand by that stage washome.
I didn't really want to, or itfelt like home.
I didn't really want to comeback to the UK at that point.
Um, and I think that'ssomething, you know, I talked on
a previous episode around this alittle bit.
It's like UK will always bewhere I'm from and in some parts
that will always be home.
I have no desire to live thereagain.
(15:26):
That's not where I'll go back.
I'll never live back in the UK,even though I still support all
the British sports teams,English sports teams, all of
that stuff.
But I can't imagine ever livingback there.
Um,
Eva Ding (15:38):
I
Daniel Rock (15:47):
when they may, it becomes very, they, they, They,
they teach treat, they treatpatriotism and national identity
slightly more intensely thanperhaps we're used to in the UK
or in New Zealand.
How do you find that influencesyour sort of feeling of home
here?
Eva Ding (16:06):
I've never really considered it, I, I feel very
Well, kind of to answer yourquestion like this, it's this
feeling of, I actually feelquite secure in saying where I'm
from and being proud of whereI'm from, where I'm from,
(16:27):
because even in New Zealand, Ihad to kind of be like, well, I
was born in China, but like, youcan hear my accent.
I basically sound like a Kiwi.
Maybe there's a, there's anAmerican twang now at this
point, but you know, and sogrowing up, I kind of had to
fight.
Or purchase in terms of, oh, butI am from here.
(16:48):
And so because of that coming toAmerica, I'm like, of wherever
I'm from.
And be that, be that China, bethat New Zealand, be that
eventually the States, but likemy journey is unique to me.
And so I think.
make sense?
So it's
Daniel Rock (17:06):
I think it makes perfect sense.
Eva Ding (17:08):
yeah, it's like, okay.
Yeah.
Like right now, New York is myhome and I would love for it to
be my home forever.
It's just, it's just such anarts and cultural overload.
And I love, and I have yet toexplore, I think I've explored
maybe 2.
5 percent of the whole,everything that it has to offer.
Um, yeah.
So I feel very much like, yeah,this is my home.
Cause I live here and I've mademy roots here and that's, I'm
(17:32):
just so used to it.
Daniel Rock (17:34):
I think that's a really interesting point about
New Zealand.
It's a wonderful country full ofwonderful people, but it can be
a little clicky in terms of, youknow, if you're not from there
and you didn't, you know, ifyou're not from there
originally, there can be thatkind of disassociation a little
bit in terms of, is it reallyyour home?
And I think that's because sucha big percentage of people,
(17:56):
there are immigrants in terms ofthat, that people kind of, I
don't know.
And, and I would have had a verydifferent.
No, I'm a middle aged white manin a country like that.
I'm not a person of color.
I'm not from Asian heritage andeveryone's experience is
different.
And I'm Um, very aware that Iget treated differently because
of that.
And I think perhaps because ofyour Chinese heritage, that
(18:18):
would have colored some of thata little bit.
Would that be fair?
Eva Ding (18:22):
yeah.
And I feel like it's weirdbecause in New York, people
don't blink twice about, say I'mfrom New Zealand.
And like, won't be like, Oh, butwhere are you really from?
Sometimes they'll be like, Oh,where's your accent?
Because sometimes I'll like,maybe lean towards more of the
(18:42):
American spectrum of accents andthey'll be like, Oh, but where's
your accent?
Yeah.
Like they won't think twiceabout.
Because, New York especially,and this is not, obviously, does
not cover the rest of America.
New York especially is such amelting pot of different
cultures and different places.
also I feel like, People in NewYork know that it's such a, it's
(19:05):
a spot for people to come and dosomething and be somewhere and
be someone and learn somethingand make something and make
something with themselves thatthey're like, yeah, okay.
You're from somewhere else, buthere's home for now.
Great.
You know?
Yeah,
Daniel Rock (19:21):
Yeah.
And that's probably, I get aslightly different experience
here.
Um, because Alabama isn'tnecessarily where a lot of
people have high on the list togo.
If you're, if you're fromanother place, um, and we're
probably not going to get intoall the reasons why on this
podcast, but there are reasons.
Eva Ding (19:40):
It's not a podcast
Daniel Rock (19:41):
Um, Yeah, but Birmingham is where I am, is
it's a fairly multiculturalplace and it's, it's, It's a
little different to say livingout in a rural area, but I still
get asked all the time I get,you know, I first I get is where
you're from.
The second point is, are youfrom Australia, which is about
the most offensive thing you cansay to an Englishman who lived
in New Zealand for 20 years.
Eva Ding (20:01):
Literally.
Daniel Rock (20:02):
then the third thing.
And this is where the experienceprobably changes from you.
Like from what you've just saidin New York, people go, well, I
understand why you're here, youknow, cause New York or LA,
that's where people come to makethe dreams come true.
I get the, well, why that one?
Why Birmingham?
Why Alabama?
Because it isn't a normaltransition for people or one
that they see a lot of.
And so my accent was, you'llget, Oh, you're acting where
(20:24):
it's from.
Mine's, um.
Eva Ding (20:25):
Yeah.
Daniel Rock (20:29):
kind of party trick.
People that like, Oh, you know,cause I haven't heard it now.
There are other English peoplehere.
There's the, you know, I went toa pub to watch the European
championships for other Englishpeople.
So it's not unheard of, but itisn't as common to hear as you
would be in sort of New York orLA where it's a lot more
prevalent, I would say.
(20:49):
So moving on to sort of the nextone, I kind of, one of the
things that we talked about overemail before this was sort of.
You had a series of music basedaround the concept of home and
the premise of home.
I'd love to talk to you a littlebit more about that here.
Kind of how those experiencesshaped your music and I'll play
some of your music at the end ofthe episode based on the stuff
you sent me.
So I'm really excited to sharethat.
I had a good listen thismorning.
I was really, it was reallygood.
(21:10):
Um, so I'd love to play that.
But yeah, if you could talk alittle bit more about how that
kind of concept of home hasshaped the music that you've
composed and that you've puttogether, that'd be awesome.
Eva Ding (21:20):
Absolutely, um, yeah, I think this project, it's, it's
called For Mom, Dad.
Which feels kind of selfexplanatory, you know, and it
goes back to what I was sayingbefore about how me reflecting
back on the sacrifices and thejourney that my parents have
(21:40):
made really put intoperspective.
You know, me being the age thatI am, like, close to when they
did the big move, kind of putinto perspective, like, exactly
what they did for me.
And so
Daniel Rock (21:55):
Um, But when you see the world, you can have a
lot of great things happen whenyou say, Go to Somalia and make
the world a better place.
And I think this is, in my owncountry, it's really hard to see
the difference between whatwe're seeing in Afghanistan and
what we're seeing in thiscountry.
And I think that's the crucialpart.
Eva Ding (22:17):
not reflective of the world that's around us?
Why am I only seeing a certaintype of audience member and how
can I make it so that everyonefeels welcome?
Um, and so I was like, well,let's make it more.
visually appealing.
Let's bring in projected media,projection mapping, you know,
(22:37):
new media.
And let's, and eventually thethird one that we've recently
done, we brought inchoreographers and dancers and
really put the audience in themiddle of the stage and gave it
that kind of immersive theaterfeeling.
And my other thing was, Let'smake it so that the program has
a narrative structure.
(22:58):
And so I, I wish I could saythat I composed any of those
pieces.
I did not, I'm not skilled ornor am I talented enough.
Um, and some of the pieces I didhelp arrange.
So they were maybe for violinand cello at first.
And I was like, play the violinpart.
Why not?
And so I arranged it for fluteand cello.
(23:20):
And so it started off as.
Bringing in, um, pieces and, andmany of them by composers of
Asian heritage, AAPI composers,because I felt that was, that
was really important to me andEmma.
And we kind of put together aprogram that showed kind of the
trials and tribulations of theimmigrant journey.
(23:42):
That was the first one.
And we had someone create, um,visual art that kind of, that,
that really kind of brought thenarrative through.
And that went well and we keptexpanding it.
And so the second set ofperformances that we did maybe
three years ago was, uh, thisidea of what it means to call a
(24:03):
place home.
And we had actually had peoplewrite pieces for us duo.
And that was really special.
Um, and so they kind of put theconcept of home, it meant to
them and they composed it so wewill, um, There's one called
Sunset in Gion and one calledHomecoming.
(24:25):
And the Sunset in Gion is, youknow, this, he's Japanese and so
it's this beautiful area inJapan where, where a lot of the
geishas, um, roam the streetsand, you know, very evocative.
Um, yeah, so the second one andthe most recent one is, was the
biggest one and I, I'm talkingmore about it because it's much
fresher in my memory.
(24:46):
And it was one of the big, youknow, biggest productions to
date.
And that had a really strongnarrative structure because I
found the set of letters betweena Chinese American couple.
the husband was already in the US um, Montana, Helena, Montana,
(25:08):
in the 1950s or so, and the wifewas stuck back in China.
Um, for her papers with theirchild, with their son and their
unborn child.
And the letters are all fromher.
So we don't see what he replies,but there's something beautiful
about the fact that like he keptthe letters so pristine that we
(25:29):
could even read them to thisday.
Um, and all the letters arelike, you know, her say like,
I'm doing well.
Um, I, I, I miss you.
Like the thought of you keeps meup at night, but please don't
worry about me.
Please worry about your ownhealth.
Make sure that you're healthybecause I want to see you when
I'm here.
Um, you know, I, the immigrationthey said that I was missing a
(25:56):
document.
So I, and they couldn't, theycouldn't see me the same day.
So they have to see me whenthey're next open.
And it's going to take me a weekto get back home to get the
thing and then a week to getback to the immigration offices
so I can't see them for anothertwo weeks, you know, it's that
kind of stuff and I read thatand I was like, Oh my God, like,
it's honestly not that differentto a lot of what people still
(26:19):
have to deal with.
Yeah, sure.
Stuff is a little quicker.
But the fact that immigration islike, meh, you know, and,
Daniel Rock (26:27):
How's that?
It might be quicker sending thedocument.
I'm not sure the process isdramatically quicker.
Eva Ding (26:33):
uh, Yeah, you're like, I don't know if they're in
England.
Daniel Rock (26:37):
yeah.
Eva Ding (26:38):
But this, and like, okay, sure, we have FaceTime
now, or we have text, but thisfeeling of, of, This feeling of
not being able to touch yourlove, touch your loved one just
really got to me.
And so I was like, we have tomake whole show about this and
inspired by this.
(26:58):
And so that was like the big oneabout like this longing for
home.
And I think Going back to one ofthe questions you had asked very
early on was this, like, Oh,what does home mean to you and
in exploring all of this, and inmy own life, it for me, home
(27:22):
certainly is a feeling of, Thepeople, the people are what
makes home home.
Like, I think New York would notfeel like home if I didn't have
my loved ones here.
And cause like my family is nothere.
And so that could feel verydifferent for different people.
And like, whenever I go back toNew Zealand, I'm instantly at
(27:44):
home because I, my, my mom isthere and my dog is there, you
know, and, and some of my reallyclose friends from high school,
for example.
And.
same with Shanghai, like, Ihaven't lived in Shanghai since
I was six.
So like, really, by all accountsand purposes, it's not like, I'm
not familiar.
I couldn't tell you directionsto save my life, know, because
(28:06):
my dad lives there.
It feels like home.
So, yeah, it's that, it's thatever changing note of what it
means to call home for me.
Daniel Rock (28:16):
Yeah.
I hear that and I feel that aswell because I'm fairly, as I
said, fairly new here and Ihaven't built that circle of
friends yet and New Zealandfeels probably the most home for
me because that's where I've gotthe biggest circle of friends.
I spent most of my adult lifethere so that that you know
there's that feeling of homethere.
(28:37):
And it's really interesting whenI do go back to the U.
K.
And I go back to three times ayear, generally for work.
Um, and I see friends and I seemy sister.
My parents live in Spain, so Idon't always get to see them
when I go back.
And that that does reduce thefeeling of home when I go back
because it doesn't have thatkind of safety net.
(28:59):
P feeling around it that itperhaps New Zealand does.
And to I say that having notbeen back to New Zealand since I
moved here and I'm, I'm goingback in a few weeks, so, um,
just, just for a few a week forwork.
But it is that, that feeling ofkind where does feel like home
and that, that kind of touch.
And I kind of wanted to go backto the letters piece for you.
(29:20):
Did that, do you think thatinspired more because of what
your parents' relationship was?
As part of that, and that's whyit resonates so strongly.
Eva Ding (29:29):
Definitely, I definitely think so, because I
think about what they, yeah,like what they, I think about
like, when I was younger, Ididn't really, um, process this,
right, where We, we had to gobuy international calling cards.
I don't know if you've
Daniel Rock (29:47):
Mm hmm.
Eva Ding (29:47):
at the dairy and we had to put money on it.
Uh, and then we had to unpluglike the, the wife or it's not
wifi or whatever, you know, likethe internet,
Daniel Rock (29:57):
Yeah.
Yeah,
Eva Ding (30:07):
The, you know, the COD number, and then the PIN, and
then it would tell us how muchmoney was left, and then that
that was precious.
Like, I thought, just, like, Ihad this visceral remembrance of
God, like, was as Like, you werejust hopping on a call.
(30:32):
Come on, to be able to calloverseas to a loved one.
And I didn't appreciate it backin the day when I was a kid,
Daniel Rock (30:39):
yeah, it's, it is that feeling I remember when I
moved to New Zealand, you know,in 2001,
Eva Ding (30:46):
Yep.
Daniel Rock (30:47):
wasn't ubiquitous yet, like, it just wasn't like
we, I was saying, um, Where Iwas staying, we had dial up
internet.
So I had calling cards exactlythe same.
And for those of you that aren'tfrom New Zealand, a dairy just
means like a corner store or aconvenience store.
It's
Eva Ding (31:03):
will, if
Daniel Rock (31:04):
yeah, but I, it's, it's not a, it's, it's not an
actual dairy where cows are.
Um, as I've been asked sincehere, when I've used that
comment and said there, um, butyeah, exactly the same with the
calling cards and it's.
It does change the dynamicbecause we used to write letters
or you'd write emails, you know,2001.
We're still writing emails toeach other, but it isn't that
immediacy of contact that youget now with being able to do
(31:27):
this, right?
You're the other side of thecountry from me or a fair way
from the country for me.
But I've done interviews withpeople in California.
I've got interviews line uppeople back in New Zealand.
So it is really interesting.
Now we get this immediacy ofcontact.
We get this immediacy of beingable to see people on screen and
it's better.
Yeah.
But it still isn't the samevisceral feeling that when
(31:48):
you're there with someone, youknow, and it's, I work remotely
full time.
My job is to be remote and stufflike that.
And you do, you miss people andpeople are, but you're on zoom
all day.
And I am, but it is not thesame.
It is not the same as being inperson.
And you do miss that.
And do you think thatinfluences?
The way that you, uh, composedthese, these shows and these
(32:10):
events because it is lessvisceral based on those letters.
Like there's that longing andthat feeling, but you don't have
that immediacy.
Eva Ding (32:18):
Interesting.
I feel like the awesome thingabout the arts, though, is that
it transcends language.
And so, okay, the letters are inChinese, we translated them to
English to have subtitles, butwe had, we had the media aspect.
(32:40):
We had the dances, we had twodances that, kind of showed
through their movement and theirart form this longing.
And, you know, it wasn't asblack and white as obvious as
there was a male dancer and afemale dancer and he was
carrying a suitcase or whatever.
But they showed through theirart.
And we had, we had a great time.
What about great friends andgreat collaborators, Corey
(33:02):
Chang, um, write a piece for usbased on those letters.
And what was going to be maybelike a 10 minute piece
flourished into this long 30minute odyssey.
It was flute, cello, andpercussion and electronics.
And so to be able to like tellthe story throughout instruments
(33:24):
such a privilege, I think.
And I, I'm hoping, and I hope,it, it, it got the point across,
it, it translated.
Daniel Rock (33:35):
So on that note, if people, and I'll share some of
the recordings that you playedwith me, but just as a taster,
um, so that if people do want toaccess your music, see you live,
access your multimedia, whereshould they find that out?
Eva Ding (33:48):
Um, we're on Instagram, my duo and I, as Koe,
K O E, Duo, D U O.
Uh, and same with our website,koaduo.
com, I have my own website, Evading.
com, or I'm on Instagram asitsits.
(34:08):
Eva Ding, E V A D I N G.
and that's, I feel like, socialmedia and web, I need to get
better at updating my websites,but social media is the, well,
the best place to keep asupdated as possible for it.
Daniel Rock (34:26):
Awesome.
Well, thank you so much for yourtime.
I've really, really enjoyed ourchat today.
Um, and it's really, I do lovelistening to the way really
talented artists interpretthings like this because I think
they put a, I don't have to usethe word visceral probably a bit
too much, but they put thatemotive kind of almost touchable
feeling to things that sometimesus mere mortals don't have the
(34:47):
ability to do.
So again, thank you so much foryour time.
It's hugely appreciated
Eva Ding (34:52):
Thank you so much
Daniel Rock (34:53):
and
Eva Ding (34:54):
See ya.
Daniel Rock (34:55):
awesome.
And if you want to hear more,um, There'll be more episodes
coming out soon.
You're able to access us.
Obviously, if you're on YouTube,please comment, like, subscribe,
all the things that you'resupposed to do.
Um, same on Spotify, Applemusic, leave us a review.
Let us know how you're going.
That'll help spread the reach ofthe podcast.
And again, thank you Eva andhave a great day, everybody.
(35:22):
Rossini's Semiramide Overture Ihave something.
(39:40):
I have something.
Something.
Something.
Something.
Something.
Something.
Something.
Something.
What I have to do.
(40:24):
To say what I have to say, whatI long to say, what I long what
I have, what I have, what I haveto say, what I have, what I
have, what I have, what I have,what I have low, what I long to.
(40:57):
What I longed to, I have to,what I longed to, Say, what I
(41:19):
longed to, say.
Often humorously linked, likened to an inflatable
tube man on stage because of herenthusiasm, passion, and
physicality, all flautist andmultidisciplinary creator Eva
Ding ever wants to do is imbuein her audience, the same sense
of joy and richness performingarts bring to her through her
innovative multimedia chambermusic productions.
Eva delves deep into the essenceof the AAPI and immigrant
(00:27):
experience, amplifying theirnarratives through a seamless
blend of music, new media,choreography, set, and lighting
design.
With grants and residencies fromesteemed institutions like
Chamber Music America and LowerManhattan Cultural Council,
shows have left audiencesspellbound.
From sharing the stage withGrammy and Oscar award winning
musician John Batiste,
Eva Ding (00:47):
because we're
Daniel Rock (00:48):
his American Symphony at the iconic Carnegie
Hall, to opening musicfestivities for pro wrestler
Orange Cassidy at electrifyingfamily reunion match, Eva has
proven her versatility andcaptivating stage presence.
Time and again, Eva's careerincludes concerto debuts and
performances alongside ensembleslike the Brooklyn Chamber
(01:09):
Orchestra, the United NationsChamber Music Society, the
Auckland Philharmonic Orchestra,and the Auckland Chamber
Orchestra.
Her unwavering commitment toshowcasing contemporary music
has led to her premier works byrenowned composers, including
the Golden Flute Concerto byChinese American luminary Chen
Yi, And a new orchestralarrangement of cloud boilings
(01:30):
suite for flute and jazz trio.
In 2020, she founded flute,cello, jury, Coey, and I may
have got that wrong.
They are committed to playingthe works of living API and
other BIPOC composers havingpremiered new works or
arrangements by Lee Yang, ZaoLong.
Shanghai born, Auckland raised,and New York based.
(01:50):
Eva received her Bachelor ofMusic with honours from the
University of Auckland under thetutelage of Professor Yui Grodd,
and as a recipient of theManhattan School of Music
President's Scholarship,completed her Masters of Music
there with Robert Langvone,Principal Flutist of the New
York Philharmonic.
In her spare time, Eva lovesplaying with her poodle Choco,
who adores singing along withher flute practice and her
(02:12):
ginger kids and Marigold, whoreally doesn't care either way.
I don't think cats care eitherway for most things.
Eva Ding (02:18):
Nope.
Daniel Rock (02:24):
How are you?
Eva Ding (02:25):
I will.
Thank you so much for having meon.
How are you?
Daniel Rock (02:29):
I'm really, really well.
And thank you so much forjoining us.
Um, and for those who don'tknow, this is the, wherever I
leave my hat podcast, which Ididn't intro at the top, but
I'll do that here.
We're all about talking topeople who have an interesting
take on the concept of home.
And that's why we have Eva Dinghere today with us.
So Eva, why don't you tell us alittle bit about your story,
(02:51):
kind of where you've come fromand where you are at the moment?
Eva Ding (02:55):
Absolutely.
So I was born in Shanghai inChina about five, uh, at five or
six years old, my parents madethe decision to move us over to
Auckland, New Zealand.
and My dad stayed back behind inShanghai because of work and
also to take care of hisparents, my grandparents.
(03:16):
And so it was just me and my momthat moved to New Zealand.
Um, so they made this hugesacrifice.
They continue to be together.
They continue to be married, butwe're just on opposite sides of
the world.
And so I did most of my growingup in New Zealand, um, did my
undergraduate studies there.
while I was in undergrad there.
(03:37):
I'd always known I, I kind ofliked the idea of America.
I knew that America had this,this thriving entertainment
industry, that's arts community,this cultural, you know,
essence.
Um, and so while I was in myundergrad and my third year, I
got a chance to go to UCLA on astudy abroad exchange program
(04:00):
that The University of Auckland,um, and I went there for six
months and I just loved it.
I was like, well, the worstcomes to worst, it could be bad
or like, I don't like it, but atleast I will have tried it.
And that absolutely I just lovedit.
Daniel Rock (04:19):
yeah.
Eva Ding (04:20):
so as, as soon as I did that, I was like, okay, I'm
really going to work hard to do
Daniel Rock (04:25):
Yeah,
Eva Ding (04:30):
for my masters.
And that's what I did.
And so I came to New York, cameto the Manhattan school of
music, and I've just been heresince I've absolutely loved it.
It's, it's been an incrediblejourney far.
Daniel Rock (04:46):
journey is one of those words that it sounds like
a buzzword, but you end up usingbecause there's no better word
to describe it.
It's been kind of co opted bythe sort of Corporate buzz speak
world, but it's still a greatword in specific conversations.
So just touching on a few thingsyou just said to me, I'm really
keen to explore a couple ofthose.
So you mentioned sort of,obviously your parents lived
apart, but stayed very muchmarried very much together.
(05:07):
Um, and because of that, that'sthe sacrifice they made you.
I'd love to hear a little bitmore about potentially how that
may have.
shaped your view of home becauseit's a nontraditional home life.
Like obviously we hearnontraditional in terms of
people perhaps being singleparent families or split
families.
But this is quite unique interms of, they were still very
much together emotionally, butnot physically.
(05:30):
So I'd love to hear a little bitmore about that.
Hmm.
Mm hmm.
Eva Ding (05:43):
Or like, I'm an only child.
And so people were like, hadsiblings.
I'm like, don't know what lifewould have been like.
So who's to say?
Maybe I would have, but maybe itwould have been terrible.
I think that together could havebeen, who's to say, but um, yeah
I think old, you know, being inmy own uh romantic relationships
(06:06):
or being in my own even justrelationships with friends i i
really the steps and thesacrifice and and that they had
to, that my parents had to do toKeep it working and to make
things good for them and goodfor me.
(06:27):
Um, I think growing up, I did alot of traveling or like my dad
would come to New Zealand every,you know, every year or twice a
year.
And my mom and I would go backto Shanghai to visit my
grandparents and him once a yearor twice a year.
And so that was traveling wasalways a very big part of my,
um, like life growing And Ithink also.
Daniel Rock (06:51):
Silence.
Silence.
Eva Ding (07:01):
in me because that's what my parents did.
That's what my mom did for meAnd so I don't think twice about
coming to new york I know and II I other people who have like
been like, oh, this was a bigdecision or even people from
other um States or other citiesin America being like big
decision to move to it's a bigdecision to move somewhere else
(07:24):
I reflect on that and I'm like,yeah it is But I think I just
always been told like thatthat's okay and to explore and
that like my parents were alwaysgoing to be There for me and
like how blessed is that to beable to explore and find your
home and create your own and tothat point I Do With Koei, which
(07:50):
you pronounce beautifully, uh,and with a lot of the
programming work that I do is,um, an homage to them.
Is, is just totally inspired by,them and their life and the
sacrifices they make.
Daniel Rock (08:07):
Just touching on some of that.
How long have you been in NewYork now?
So how long since you left NewZealand to come to New York?
Eva Ding (08:13):
I came in 2017.
Which is now seven years ago,which is an number to think
about.
Cause I was like, Oh, I justarrived.
just got here.
Daniel Rock (08:28):
in terms of that, and obviously you've had a sort
of a split family dynamic alittle bit, but obviously this
is moving to somewhere where youhave no, you didn't have family.
And so you've had to sort ofcreate your own network.
How obviously some of that hascome through the music.
Some of that will have comethrough study.
Some of that come from how haveyou gone about sort of building
that family and home feeling.
(08:49):
In New York.
Eva Ding (08:51):
Absolutely.
Um, I, I often think about thisbecause I think about how lucky
I am that I came here for schooland a very specific school, like
very concentrated, you know,conservatory, music
conservatory.
And so everyone met everyone.
It was pretty small.
So everyone knew everyone duringorientation week.
(09:11):
And I kind of like to joke thatwe suffered together and nothing
bonds people together liketrauma.
All the hours of practice, allthe hours of rehearsals, all the
early morning theory classes, dada da da.
And so I met some of my closest,closest, and even to this day,
closest friends there.
(09:32):
Because we really, Everyoneunderstood what everyone else
was going through.
And so we really banded togetherand supported each other, which
I thought was just as such anincredible dynamic.
Um, yeah.
And then through that, thatexpanded my.
and my community and justthrough through the stuff that
I've been doing through theperformances and and the more
(09:55):
cultural stuff and the more kindof um I wouldn't say advocacy
but advocacy in a way advocacythrough music um I've met people
in that way too.
Daniel Rock (10:08):
And so how did you meet your partner in Koei?
Eva Ding (10:14):
my second year I really wanted to play this piece
for my graduation recital calledVox Ballinae by George Crumb.
It's Latin for Voice of theWhale.
And it's this insane, you know,25 minute piece all, all the way
through no breaks and theperformers are instructed to
(10:35):
wear masks and the lighting issupposed to be blackout except
for blue lighting to emulatethat feeling of being underwater
and everyone's And so it wasflute, cello, and piano,
prepared piano.
I had the pianist, I've beenworking with him, um, throughout
my grad, grad school studies.
(10:57):
I just asked a mutual friend ofthe cellists and I, Hey, do you
know any great cellists andplaying this awesome piece?
I would love to, you know,really meet someone, someone.
really great to collaboratewith.
And he was like, Oh, you've gotit.
Me, Emma, you guys would totallyget along.
You guys totally have the vibe,you know, similar vibes.
And so I asked her on.
Yeah.
Um, and then we, and then mypianist and I graduated and she
(11:21):
was the year below us in gradschool.
then COVID happened.
So everything kind of went tobleep.
Um, and I was just sitting thereat home and I, one of my dear
friends and mentors reached outto me and we were chatting and
she was like, Hey, in a chamberensemble, right?
Like I have a friend.
(11:43):
Who would like to apply for agrant from Chamber Music America
to mentor a chamber ensemble.
she's, you know, she, she'sready to apply.
She just needs a chamberensemble to apply with.
I was like, well, like we're allkind of dispersed.
We, we haven't really playedmuch since graduation.
(12:04):
The pianist is at that point wasoff in D.
C.
because he's an incrediblecollaborative pianist, and he
got into a program with theNational Opera.
And so I was like, he's faraway, but the cellist, yeah,
she's in, she's in New York.
So I called her up and I waslike, Do you want to just apply
to this thing, just you and me?
(12:24):
And at that point, she wastelling me, she was like,
clawing at the walls to dosomething.
So she was like, yes! Yes, we'lldo something!
Daniel Rock (12:32):
Anything, anything.
Eva Ding (12:33):
anything! Yeah?
You want me to play?
I was like, great, yeah, let'sdo it.
So we applied as a duo some ofthe clips of our graduation
recital and some of the stuffthat we had played.
And as much of the two of usplaying as possible and we got
the grant and that was reallyum, and then we got a
(12:56):
performance and a coupleperformances and that was really
the catalyst to being like ohthis could be a thing there's
something here actually andthat's that was a really
exciting spark then.
Daniel Rock (13:11):
Nice.
That's really cool.
And that's a really good start.
Yeah.
COVID did funny things to a lotof people.
Um, my, my wife and I, now wewere, we were back in New
Zealand and, um, we were once Ireally, we weren't super early
in their relation, been a littlewhile, but we hadn't moved in
together yet.
And we were sort of thinking,Oh, we'll talk towards the end
of the year.
And then Auckland went intothat, you know, and, and, and,
and, and, and, and, Enormouslockdown that went from like
(13:31):
July to December.
And it was like that.
Well, if we don't do this now,we won't see each other and we
don't know how long this isgoing to go.
So you kind of make leaps offaith.
I think a little bit when youput in situations like that in
terms of, okay, well, we've gotnothing to lose.
Let's try it.
You know?
And I think that sometimes thebest decisions you make ever
come out of.
Those kind of, well, let's justtry it moments.
(13:52):
You know, I think when youmentioned about, um, going to
New York and saying, well, youknow, if I don't like it in six
months, I'm a huge fan of likenot leaving what ifs, you know,
life is too short to go, I wishI had, or what if I had, you
know, I think if I look back towhen I moved to New Zealand at
22 from the UK, you know, Inearly didn't go.
(14:14):
And then I was like, I rememberhaving a conversation with my
mom, who, you know, my mom didnot want me to move halfway
across the world.
And I remember her going, youjust, you can come back, you
know, no decision isirreversible, you know, you can
come back.
So it was like, well, you know,nothing to lose or try.
And then 23 years later, Ifinally left New Zealand to come
to America, which probablywasn't on the initial.
Plan either.
Um,
Eva Ding (14:35):
you got to try.
What got
Daniel Rock (14:37):
exactly.
Eva Ding (14:39):
What got you
Daniel Rock (14:39):
No, go for it.
Eva Ding (14:40):
what got you interested in New Zealand to
begin with at 22?
So that you,
Daniel Rock (14:45):
Um, as a lot of people do, I admit, I admit a
partner, a woman in the UK.
Um, so we worked together and wewere and we were supposed to do
a year in New Zealand, a year inAustralia, working holidays and
then come back to the UK becauseher, her visa had run out.
She was from New Zealand.
And even when that relationshiphad fizzled, it's fizzled out a
little bit.
(15:05):
Um, or completely fizzled out.
New Zealand by that stage washome.
I didn't really want to, or itfelt like home.
I didn't really want to comeback to the UK at that point.
Um, and I think that'ssomething, you know, I talked on
a previous episode around this alittle bit.
It's like UK will always bewhere I'm from and in some parts
that will always be home.
I have no desire to live thereagain.
(15:26):
That's not where I'll go back.
I'll never live back in the UK,even though I still support all
the British sports teams,English sports teams, all of
that stuff.
But I can't imagine ever livingback there.
Um,
Eva Ding (15:38):
I
Daniel Rock (15:47):
when they may, it becomes very, they, they, They,
they teach treat, they treatpatriotism and national identity
slightly more intensely thanperhaps we're used to in the UK
or in New Zealand.
How do you find that influencesyour sort of feeling of home
here?
Eva Ding (16:06):
I've never really considered it, I, I feel very
Well, kind of to answer yourquestion like this, it's this
feeling of, I actually feelquite secure in saying where I'm
from and being proud of whereI'm from, where I'm from,
(16:27):
because even in New Zealand, Ihad to kind of be like, well, I
was born in China, but like, youcan hear my accent.
I basically sound like a Kiwi.
Maybe there's a, there's anAmerican twang now at this
point, but you know, and sogrowing up, I kind of had to
fight.
Or purchase in terms of, oh, butI am from here.
(16:48):
And so because of that coming toAmerica, I'm like, of wherever
I'm from.
And be that, be that China, bethat New Zealand, be that
eventually the States, but likemy journey is unique to me.
And so I think.
make sense?
So it's
Daniel Rock (17:06):
I think it makes perfect sense.
Eva Ding (17:08):
yeah, it's like, okay.
Yeah.
Like right now, New York is myhome and I would love for it to
be my home forever.
It's just, it's just such anarts and cultural overload.
And I love, and I have yet toexplore, I think I've explored
maybe 2.
5 percent of the whole,everything that it has to offer.
Um, yeah.
So I feel very much like, yeah,this is my home.
Cause I live here and I've mademy roots here and that's, I'm
(17:32):
just so used to it.
Daniel Rock (17:34):
I think that's a really interesting point about
New Zealand.
It's a wonderful country full ofwonderful people, but it can be
a little clicky in terms of, youknow, if you're not from there
and you didn't, you know, ifyou're not from there
originally, there can be thatkind of disassociation a little
bit in terms of, is it reallyyour home?
And I think that's because sucha big percentage of people,
(17:56):
there are immigrants in terms ofthat, that people kind of, I
don't know.
And, and I would have had a verydifferent.
No, I'm a middle aged white manin a country like that.
I'm not a person of color.
I'm not from Asian heritage andeveryone's experience is
different.
And I'm Um, very aware that Iget treated differently because
of that.
And I think perhaps because ofyour Chinese heritage, that
(18:18):
would have colored some of thata little bit.
Would that be fair?
Eva Ding (18:22):
yeah.
And I feel like it's weirdbecause in New York, people
don't blink twice about, say I'mfrom New Zealand.
And like, won't be like, Oh, butwhere are you really from?
Sometimes they'll be like, Oh,where's your accent?
Because sometimes I'll like,maybe lean towards more of the
(18:42):
American spectrum of accents andthey'll be like, Oh, but where's
your accent?
Yeah.
Like they won't think twiceabout.
Because, New York especially,and this is not, obviously, does
not cover the rest of America.
New York especially is such amelting pot of different
cultures and different places.
also I feel like, People in NewYork know that it's such a, it's
(19:05):
a spot for people to come and dosomething and be somewhere and
be someone and learn somethingand make something and make
something with themselves thatthey're like, yeah, okay.
You're from somewhere else, buthere's home for now.
Great.
You know?
Yeah,
Daniel Rock (19:21):
Yeah.
And that's probably, I get aslightly different experience
here.
Um, because Alabama isn'tnecessarily where a lot of
people have high on the list togo.
If you're, if you're fromanother place, um, and we're
probably not going to get intoall the reasons why on this
podcast, but there are reasons.
Eva Ding (19:40):
It's not a podcast
Daniel Rock (19:41):
Um, Yeah, but Birmingham is where I am, is
it's a fairly multiculturalplace and it's, it's, It's a
little different to say livingout in a rural area, but I still
get asked all the time I get,you know, I first I get is where
you're from.
The second point is, are youfrom Australia, which is about
the most offensive thing you cansay to an Englishman who lived
in New Zealand for 20 years.
Eva Ding (20:01):
Literally.
Daniel Rock (20:02):
then the third thing.
And this is where the experienceprobably changes from you.
Like from what you've just saidin New York, people go, well, I
understand why you're here, youknow, cause New York or LA,
that's where people come to makethe dreams come true.
I get the, well, why that one?
Why Birmingham?
Why Alabama?
Because it isn't a normaltransition for people or one
that they see a lot of.
And so my accent was, you'llget, Oh, you're acting where
(20:24):
it's from.
Mine's, um.
Eva Ding (20:25):
Yeah.
Daniel Rock (20:29):
kind of party trick.
People that like, Oh, you know,cause I haven't heard it now.
There are other English peoplehere.
There's the, you know, I went toa pub to watch the European
championships for other Englishpeople.
So it's not unheard of, but itisn't as common to hear as you
would be in sort of New York orLA where it's a lot more
prevalent, I would say.
(20:49):
So moving on to sort of the nextone, I kind of, one of the
things that we talked about overemail before this was sort of.
You had a series of music basedaround the concept of home and
the premise of home.
I'd love to talk to you a littlebit more about that here.
Kind of how those experiencesshaped your music and I'll play
some of your music at the end ofthe episode based on the stuff
you sent me.
So I'm really excited to sharethat.
I had a good listen thismorning.
I was really, it was reallygood.
(21:10):
Um, so I'd love to play that.
But yeah, if you could talk alittle bit more about how that
kind of concept of home hasshaped the music that you've
composed and that you've puttogether, that'd be awesome.
Eva Ding (21:20):
Absolutely, um, yeah, I think this project, it's, it's
called For Mom, Dad.
Which feels kind of selfexplanatory, you know, and it
goes back to what I was sayingbefore about how me reflecting
back on the sacrifices and thejourney that my parents have
(21:40):
made really put intoperspective.
You know, me being the age thatI am, like, close to when they
did the big move, kind of putinto perspective, like, exactly
what they did for me.
And so
Daniel Rock (21:55):
Um, But when you see the world, you can have a
lot of great things happen whenyou say, Go to Somalia and make
the world a better place.
And I think this is, in my owncountry, it's really hard to see
the difference between whatwe're seeing in Afghanistan and
what we're seeing in thiscountry.
And I think that's the crucialpart.
Eva Ding (22:17):
not reflective of the world that's around us?
Why am I only seeing a certaintype of audience member and how
can I make it so that everyonefeels welcome?
Um, and so I was like, well,let's make it more.
visually appealing.
Let's bring in projected media,projection mapping, you know,
(22:37):
new media.
And let's, and eventually thethird one that we've recently
done, we brought inchoreographers and dancers and
really put the audience in themiddle of the stage and gave it
that kind of immersive theaterfeeling.
And my other thing was, Let'smake it so that the program has
a narrative structure.
(22:58):
And so I, I wish I could saythat I composed any of those
pieces.
I did not, I'm not skilled ornor am I talented enough.
Um, and some of the pieces I didhelp arrange.
So they were maybe for violinand cello at first.
And I was like, play the violinpart.
Why not?
And so I arranged it for fluteand cello.
(23:20):
And so it started off as.
Bringing in, um, pieces and, andmany of them by composers of
Asian heritage, AAPI composers,because I felt that was, that
was really important to me andEmma.
And we kind of put together aprogram that showed kind of the
trials and tribulations of theimmigrant journey.
(23:42):
That was the first one.
And we had someone create, um,visual art that kind of, that,
that really kind of brought thenarrative through.
And that went well and we keptexpanding it.
And so the second set ofperformances that we did maybe
three years ago was, uh, thisidea of what it means to call a
(24:03):
place home.
And we had actually had peoplewrite pieces for us duo.
And that was really special.
Um, and so they kind of put theconcept of home, it meant to
them and they composed it so wewill, um, There's one called
Sunset in Gion and one calledHomecoming.
(24:25):
And the Sunset in Gion is, youknow, this, he's Japanese and so
it's this beautiful area inJapan where, where a lot of the
geishas, um, roam the streetsand, you know, very evocative.
Um, yeah, so the second one andthe most recent one is, was the
biggest one and I, I'm talkingmore about it because it's much
fresher in my memory.
(24:46):
And it was one of the big, youknow, biggest productions to
date.
And that had a really strongnarrative structure because I
found the set of letters betweena Chinese American couple.
the husband was already in the US um, Montana, Helena, Montana,
(25:08):
in the 1950s or so, and the wifewas stuck back in China.
Um, for her papers with theirchild, with their son and their
unborn child.
And the letters are all fromher.
So we don't see what he replies,but there's something beautiful
about the fact that like he keptthe letters so pristine that we
(25:29):
could even read them to thisday.
Um, and all the letters arelike, you know, her say like,
I'm doing well.
Um, I, I, I miss you.
Like the thought of you keeps meup at night, but please don't
worry about me.
Please worry about your ownhealth.
Make sure that you're healthybecause I want to see you when
I'm here.
Um, you know, I, the immigrationthey said that I was missing a
(25:56):
document.
So I, and they couldn't, theycouldn't see me the same day.
So they have to see me whenthey're next open.
And it's going to take me a weekto get back home to get the
thing and then a week to getback to the immigration offices
so I can't see them for anothertwo weeks, you know, it's that
kind of stuff and I read thatand I was like, Oh my God, like,
it's honestly not that differentto a lot of what people still
(26:19):
have to deal with.
Yeah, sure.
Stuff is a little quicker.
But the fact that immigration islike, meh, you know, and,
Daniel Rock (26:27):
How's that?
It might be quicker sending thedocument.
I'm not sure the process isdramatically quicker.
Eva Ding (26:33):
uh, Yeah, you're like, I don't know if they're in
England.
Daniel Rock (26:37):
yeah.
Eva Ding (26:38):
But this, and like, okay, sure, we have FaceTime
now, or we have text, but thisfeeling of, of, This feeling of
not being able to touch yourlove, touch your loved one just
really got to me.
And so I was like, we have tomake whole show about this and
inspired by this.
(26:58):
And so that was like the big oneabout like this longing for
home.
And I think Going back to one ofthe questions you had asked very
early on was this, like, Oh,what does home mean to you and
in exploring all of this, and inmy own life, it for me, home
(27:22):
certainly is a feeling of, Thepeople, the people are what
makes home home.
Like, I think New York would notfeel like home if I didn't have
my loved ones here.
And cause like my family is nothere.
And so that could feel verydifferent for different people.
And like, whenever I go back toNew Zealand, I'm instantly at
(27:44):
home because I, my, my mom isthere and my dog is there, you
know, and, and some of my reallyclose friends from high school,
for example.
And.
same with Shanghai, like, Ihaven't lived in Shanghai since
I was six.
So like, really, by all accountsand purposes, it's not like, I'm
not familiar.
I couldn't tell you directionsto save my life, know, because
(28:06):
my dad lives there.
It feels like home.
So, yeah, it's that, it's thatever changing note of what it
means to call home for me.
Daniel Rock (28:16):
Yeah.
I hear that and I feel that aswell because I'm fairly, as I
said, fairly new here and Ihaven't built that circle of
friends yet and New Zealandfeels probably the most home for
me because that's where I've gotthe biggest circle of friends.
I spent most of my adult lifethere so that that you know
there's that feeling of homethere.
(28:37):
And it's really interesting whenI do go back to the U.
K.
And I go back to three times ayear, generally for work.
Um, and I see friends and I seemy sister.
My parents live in Spain, so Idon't always get to see them
when I go back.
And that that does reduce thefeeling of home when I go back
because it doesn't have thatkind of safety net.
(28:59):
P feeling around it that itperhaps New Zealand does.
And to I say that having notbeen back to New Zealand since I
moved here and I'm, I'm goingback in a few weeks, so, um,
just, just for a few a week forwork.
But it is that, that feeling ofkind where does feel like home
and that, that kind of touch.
And I kind of wanted to go backto the letters piece for you.
(29:20):
Did that, do you think thatinspired more because of what
your parents' relationship was?
As part of that, and that's whyit resonates so strongly.
Eva Ding (29:29):
Definitely, I definitely think so, because I
think about what they, yeah,like what they, I think about
like, when I was younger, Ididn't really, um, process this,
right, where We, we had to gobuy international calling cards.
I don't know if you've
Daniel Rock (29:47):
Mm hmm.
Eva Ding (29:47):
at the dairy and we had to put money on it.
Uh, and then we had to unpluglike the, the wife or it's not
wifi or whatever, you know, likethe internet,
Daniel Rock (29:57):
Yeah.
Yeah,
Eva Ding (30:07):
The, you know, the COD number, and then the PIN, and
then it would tell us how muchmoney was left, and then that
that was precious.
Like, I thought, just, like, Ihad this visceral remembrance of
God, like, was as Like, you werejust hopping on a call.
(30:32):
Come on, to be able to calloverseas to a loved one.
And I didn't appreciate it backin the day when I was a kid,
Daniel Rock (30:39):
yeah, it's, it is that feeling I remember when I
moved to New Zealand, you know,in 2001,
Eva Ding (30:46):
Yep.
Daniel Rock (30:47):
wasn't ubiquitous yet, like, it just wasn't like
we, I was saying, um, Where Iwas staying, we had dial up
internet.
So I had calling cards exactlythe same.
And for those of you that aren'tfrom New Zealand, a dairy just
means like a corner store or aconvenience store.
It's
Eva Ding (31:03):
will, if
Daniel Rock (31:04):
yeah, but I, it's, it's not a, it's, it's not an
actual dairy where cows are.
Um, as I've been asked sincehere, when I've used that
comment and said there, um, butyeah, exactly the same with the
calling cards and it's.
It does change the dynamicbecause we used to write letters
or you'd write emails, you know,2001.
We're still writing emails toeach other, but it isn't that
immediacy of contact that youget now with being able to do
(31:27):
this, right?
You're the other side of thecountry from me or a fair way
from the country for me.
But I've done interviews withpeople in California.
I've got interviews line uppeople back in New Zealand.
So it is really interesting.
Now we get this immediacy ofcontact.
We get this immediacy of beingable to see people on screen and
it's better.
Yeah.
But it still isn't the samevisceral feeling that when
(31:48):
you're there with someone, youknow, and it's, I work remotely
full time.
My job is to be remote and stufflike that.
And you do, you miss people andpeople are, but you're on zoom
all day.
And I am, but it is not thesame.
It is not the same as being inperson.
And you do miss that.
And do you think thatinfluences?
The way that you, uh, composedthese, these shows and these
(32:10):
events because it is lessvisceral based on those letters.
Like there's that longing andthat feeling, but you don't have
that immediacy.
Eva Ding (32:18):
Interesting.
I feel like the awesome thingabout the arts, though, is that
it transcends language.
And so, okay, the letters are inChinese, we translated them to
English to have subtitles, butwe had, we had the media aspect.
(32:40):
We had the dances, we had twodances that, kind of showed
through their movement and theirart form this longing.
And, you know, it wasn't asblack and white as obvious as
there was a male dancer and afemale dancer and he was
carrying a suitcase or whatever.
But they showed through theirart.
And we had, we had a great time.
What about great friends andgreat collaborators, Corey
(33:02):
Chang, um, write a piece for usbased on those letters.
And what was going to be maybelike a 10 minute piece
flourished into this long 30minute odyssey.
It was flute, cello, andpercussion and electronics.
And so to be able to like tellthe story throughout instruments
(33:24):
such a privilege, I think.
And I, I'm hoping, and I hope,it, it, it got the point across,
it, it translated.
Daniel Rock (33:35):
So on that note, if people, and I'll share some of
the recordings that you playedwith me, but just as a taster,
um, so that if people do want toaccess your music, see you live,
access your multimedia, whereshould they find that out?
Eva Ding (33:48):
Um, we're on Instagram, my duo and I, as Koe,
K O E, Duo, D U O.
Uh, and same with our website,koaduo.
com, I have my own website, Evading.
com, or I'm on Instagram asitsits.
(34:08):
Eva Ding, E V A D I N G.
and that's, I feel like, socialmedia and web, I need to get
better at updating my websites,but social media is the, well,
the best place to keep asupdated as possible for it.
Daniel Rock (34:26):
Awesome.
Well, thank you so much for yourtime.
I've really, really enjoyed ourchat today.
Um, and it's really, I do lovelistening to the way really
talented artists interpretthings like this because I think
they put a, I don't have to usethe word visceral probably a bit
too much, but they put thatemotive kind of almost touchable
feeling to things that sometimesus mere mortals don't have the
(34:47):
ability to do.
So again, thank you so much foryour time.
It's hugely appreciated
Eva Ding (34:52):
Thank you so much
Daniel Rock (34:53):
and
Eva Ding (34:54):
See ya.
Daniel Rock (34:55):
awesome.
And if you want to hear more,um, There'll be more episodes
coming out soon.
You're able to access us.
Obviously, if you're on YouTube,please comment, like, subscribe,
all the things that you'resupposed to do.
Um, same on Spotify, Applemusic, leave us a review.
Let us know how you're going.
That'll help spread the reach ofthe podcast.
And again, thank you Eva andhave a great day, everybody.
(35:22):
Rossini's Semiramide Overture Ihave something.
(39:40):
I have something.
Something.
Something.
Something.
Something.
Something.
Something.
Something.
What I have to do.
(40:24):
To say what I have to say, whatI long to say, what I long what
I have, what I have, what I haveto say, what I have, what I
have, what I have, what I have,what I have low, what I long to.
(40:57):
What I longed to, I have to,what I longed to, Say, what I
(41:19):
longed to, say.
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