January 10, 2025 • 31 mins
In this episode of 'Wherever I Lay My Hat,' Daniel engages in a heartfelt conversation with Ayo Haynes, an open adoption specialist helping women in their forties and fifties become mothers through adoption. Ayo shares her personal journey from growing up in a diverse, single-parent household in NYC to moving to Connecticut and focusing on her career as an adoptive mother and adoption coach. The discussion explores the differences between closed and open adoptions, the importance of transparency with adopted children, and the steps prospective adoptive parents can take to start their journey. Tune in for an enlightening dialogue on the essence of creating a home and the profound impact of adoption.
00:00 Introduction to the Podcast
00:37 Meet Ayo Haynes: Open Adoption Specialist
01:43 Ayo's Family Background and Journey to Adoption
03:37 Ayo's Acting Career and Life Decisions
06:35 The Adoption Process: A Personal Experience
10:04 Concept of Home and Family
18:30 Open Adoption Explained
25:25 Advice for Prospective Adoptive Parents
31:15 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ayo Haynes, Open Adoption (00:05):
Okay.
Daniel Rock (00:06):
Welcome to where I lay my hat, a podcast about
home.
Um, this week's a littledifferent and I'm excited to
Ayo Haynes, Open Adoption (00:12):
Yes,
Daniel Rock (00:35):
thanks for having, thanks for joining us.
And I'd love to start with youkind of giving us a little bit
of your background andintroducing yourself.
Ayo Haynes, Open Adoption (00:43):
thank you for having me.
So as you said, my name is AyoHaynes.
I'm an open adoption specialist.
I.
help, uh, women in their fortiesand fifties become mothers
through adoption.
Some may have never been mothersbefore.
Some may have had children thatare grown and they have decided
to adopt again.
Um, but it's a wonderfulbusiness of helping other people
(01:08):
achieve their dreams.
And, and you see little miracleshappen every single day, almost.
Daniel Rock (01:16):
That's lovely.
You know, and I think it is avery worthy thing do.
And I think, you know, it's,it's one of those things where
there's a lot of people who maynot have privilege that some of
us have had growing up, youknow, in, in that standard
nuclear family, which to befair, and then mine was very
privileged, but not everyone'sstandard nuclear family is
actually as privileged asperhaps we make out.
(01:36):
Um, I'd love to sort of hear howyou came to this and how you
came to, on your journey todecide adoption was the right
path for you.
Ayo Haynes, Open Adoption (01:43):
I'll, I'll start by what you were just
talking about.
My family was not necessarilywhat people would call standard.
You know, I came from a singlemother household.
My, they, my parents weremarried, but my dad was also a
jazz musician, so he.
He traveled a lot and his careerwas priority.
(02:04):
And so my mother had to make herhome with me and with the
support of her brothers andsisters, as she put herself
through, um, uh, two yearcollege, then onto a four year
college all the way to get her,her PhD in divinity.
So, um, you know, I come from aninteresting, Group of, of a
(02:29):
family members who have reallymade it their goal to help the
family within each other, likeon one side of the family, the
other side of the family wasvery distant.
I didn't have a relationshipwith them, but I learned my
sense of family and home from mymother and from her brothers and
sisters and all of my cousins.
(02:49):
And it's still.
Is what I yearn for as an adultis that same feeling when we
were younger, when everyone cameto each other's houses and it
was, uh, you felt so much pridewhen you can say your cousin.
I grew up as an only child, so Icouldn't say my brothers or
sisters, but my cousins were mybrothers and sisters.
(03:10):
Um, And I grew up in New Yorkcity, you know, which is unique
unto itself.
A lot of people wonder what it'slike to live in a place like
that.
And it was wonderful until itwasn't for me anymore.
And I felt like I had to leavenot only for my own sanity, but
also because my family had grownto, I was, I had become an
(03:31):
adoptive mother.
Daniel Rock (03:33):
And so let's touch on that a little bit.
I'll, I'll carry on your journeya little bit.
I know reading your bio, therewas, um, some flirtations of
more than the flirtation withHollywood and some, some career
aspirations there that youchanged because of the journey
that you took, do you want tojust sort of touch on that a
little bit for us?
Ayo Haynes, Open Adoption (03:51):
Sure.
So I became an actress incollege, very small parts and
jobs, just locally.
It was my college job.
Some people work in thebookstore.
I did little jobs around town inBoston, um, for different
companies and, um, became reallyin love with the whole world of
acting.
(04:11):
Uh, but I was at school on ascholarship.
And, uh, getting my BA and myMBA within five years on this
great scholarship.
And I had this incredibleopportunity over the summer of
my junior year, I believe it waswhere I worked for a Broadway
theater company and, um, Istumbled into this huge acting
job and met people who took meunder their wings.
(04:32):
And I just fell in love withacting that summer.
And I declared to my mother thatI wasn't going back to school.
And thankfully she prevailed andsaid, no, let's work out a deal.
You'll go back, you'll get thisdegree.
And after that, you can dowhatever you want with acting.
I'll give you five years, so tospeak.
And I did that and I was workingimmediately right after school.
(04:55):
In fact, the week before Ifinished my last set of classes,
I had booked a children's show.
Um, and so.
It was validation that thiscould happen.
So I've been an actor for over30 years now, I believe.
And I, um, the, the story you'retalking about is when I had an
incredible opportunity on acomedy show by one of the top
(05:19):
comedians at the time.
And, um, they kind of pulled afast one on me.
The audition was verystraightforward and, um, improv,
improvisation aspect to it.
And they said, Oh, we can't giveyou the script because it's very
top secret, but we'll, we'llgive it to you afterwards, you
know, later.
So when they did give it to me,it was when I was already at
(05:41):
the, um, the table read toactually meet everyone, the
producers, directors, thecomedian himself.
And, um, I, as I was reading thescript, I said, Oh my goodness,
I can't, I can't do this.
I can't say this and live withmyself.
So long story short with thatstory is I walked off.
(06:03):
I walked off the set and Ididn't look back.
And it was actually one of thefirst times that I started
really knowing how much selfpower I had over.
The decisions I made and nottaking anything that was thrown
at me and not feeling like Ididn't have a voice or choice in
(06:23):
how my life would play out.
And I didn't want to live withregret for that moment.
And that really informed how Imoved forward with my decision
to become an adoptive mom.
You know, I tried IUI, I triedIVF, I tried being in a
relationship that would go tomarriage that didn't work.
And so, um, By the time I was atthis really critical stage of
(06:46):
fertility in my early forties, Ihad no real choices left after
the, the fertility treatmentsdidn't work.
So I decided to do adoption.
Um, and it worked and it workedprofoundly and has been amazing.
And it's been a way for me tolearn even more about myself
because.
The adoption process is fraughtwith ups and downs and feeling
(07:09):
pressure to take whatever babycomes along.
You do have a choice.
You can say no to situations.
And so that acting situation asmany years before.
It was, it really did inform howI went through the adoption
process, speaking up for myselfsaying, no, this is not how I
envisioned being a mother.
(07:30):
Um, so this situation is notgoing to work.
This situation will, what I'mgoing to say on my brochures,
um, all of those things that Istood up for myself.
And so now all these yearslater, I stand up for my
clients.
I'm an adoption doula.
I like to say.
You know, and I, I helped themfind their voice through the
adoption process.
(07:51):
And I'm not, not acting, butit's not my priority at the
moment.
I'm still, I'm really focusingon my, my coaching.
Daniel Rock (08:01):
And so talking a little bit more about that
process, what, what was theprocess like for you, I suppose,
you know, I'm really interestedto hear a little bit about that
because again, I think probablypeople have a, know, I probably
do, I'm talking my thing, aconceived idea of kind of what
adoption is and how that processworks.
So I'd be really interested tounderstand how that process
falls for you and, and kind ofwhat are some of the.
(08:23):
suppose kind of myths or kind ofpreconceptions that people have
about the process.
Ayo Haynes, Open Adoptio (08:28):
Right.
So it's not unlike buying ahouse and it sounds crude, but
there's a ton of paperwork andthere's a lot of processes that
can't be overlooked that youcan't jump around.
Um, and you work with somebodywho is helping you through the
process.
So if you're buying a house.
If you have a mortgage broker ormortgage banker, if you're
(08:51):
adopting a baby, you're workingwith a social worker or an
agency to, uh, navigate theadoption process to fill out the
right paperwork in the rightorder, get the fingerprints,
send them off to DC, get themapproved by Homeland security.
You are providing all of yourfinancial details, including
(09:11):
your tax returns and yourinsurance documents.
I mean, it's, it's very intense.
And so I always tell peopledon't.
Get offended by all thequestions and how much
information they want from you.
It's part of the process, right?
You either fight it or you justgo with it.
Um, and you will get frustratedbecause documents will expire.
(09:34):
Hopefully your home studydoesn't expire.
A home study is valid for acertain amount of time.
And then you would have to havea small redo, but generally it's
safe.
It's a lot of hurry up and waitand be picked.
And that was my process.
That was exactly what I wentthrough and it was frustrating
not having someone to walk methrough that from an outside
(09:57):
perspective of outside of theagency and the social worker.
And so that's what I do for myclients.
Daniel Rock (10:04):
Just kind of kind of want to explore a couple of
things around the concept ofhome with with this with the
process.
Obviously, you mentioned.
previously around kind of theway you grew up in a single
mother household, but with amuch wider family kind of input
as opposed into your, into theway that you were raised and the
way that kind of, you know, thatpiece in New Zealand, they have
(10:25):
a, which is where I spent, youknow, 20, 20 odd years of my
life in, in multicultural, theyhave a concept called Fano,
which is in, is in a directtranslation that means family,
but actually it's kind of a lotmore complex than that.
It's a, it's a real sort ofdeeper, more emotional,
physical.
Concept around an entire threeor four generations raising
(10:48):
Children together as part of awider family network.
And I've probably butchered thatmeaning a little bit and I try
to be respectful as I can.
But it's a really interestingconcept that goes behind perhaps
the anglicized version of familythat I would have grown up in.
You know, which is mom, dad, andthen you have some cousins, you
might see a family events andmaybe hang out with occasionally
(11:08):
it, what is not really thatcompletely integrated family
concept that is.
Um, I'd be interested to hearkinda from where you've gone or
from what your background was inthe way that your family was and
to becoming an adoptive mother,how has that shaped your feeling
of home and family?
Ayo Haynes, Open Adoption Su (11:28):
So it's interesting.
I told you about my experienceas a young child growing up with
all of my cousins around.
We even went to the same camp,summer camp.
Like we really felt like we tookover the camp and it felt
amazing to be able to say, Iknow him, I know her and we were
connected.
Um, growing up, that was myreality as an adult, because I
(11:52):
had my children so late.
So much later than all of mycousins, there are very few
cousins that my daughter has.
So I've had to make myadditional family members out of
friends.
And that was one of the reasonswhy I moved from New York to
Connecticut because I felt soisolated in New York and moving
(12:14):
into suburban atmosphere.
You know, my daughter's schooland her playmates families
become friends.
And I was able to, as a realtor,bring some friends up from, from
New York who wanted the samekind of escape of New York to
(12:34):
Connecticut.
So they have become my, mybrother and sister.
Um, and their daughter is myniece.
And, you know, I have peoplelike that, that I can fill in
the gaps because my, the familymembers that I grew up with are
all over the U S they're notwhere I'm at.
Um, and so I miss that for mydaughter.
(12:55):
I miss that for her to have thatkind of experience.
And the funny thing is many ofher really good friends from
school.
Are also only children, right?
So it's a little easier that wayto, to be able to connect with
families that have onlychildren, girls to foster that
(13:17):
kind of same home feeling forthem.
Daniel Rock (13:19):
think that's becoming more common.
And, you know, if I look at now,my situation is different.
You know, we, my wife and I hada daughter last year now I'm in
my, you know, I'm 46, I was 45when Lily arrived.
So, you know, an older fatherfor the first time and very much
the same.
We were both living in NewZealand and I'm from the UK
originally, my wife's from the US um, and so we didn't have
(13:39):
family now.
I have a wonderful friendnetwork and our daughter had
some health challenges when she
Ayo Haynes, Open Adoption (13:45):
Okay.
Daniel Rock (14:01):
I've got an actual niece who is almost 30 and I've
got my best friend in the world,his son and daughter, his
daughter's 20, his son's almost16, you know, it's, and that
there, I've considered them myniece and nephew since they were
born.
But you know, that's notsomebody who's going to play
with my.
One year old
Ayo Haynes, Open Adoption (14:20):
Okay.
Daniel Rock (14:20):
two year old, you know, so of the decisions we
made as a family was to moveback to the U S to be closer to
family.
Um, my wife, Katie, she's gotfriends who've got young kids
and it's a network and we've gotfamily, actual family here, and
we've been able to blend that inand it does mean, you know, and
that's one of the reasons Istarted this podcast is because
(14:42):
that whole, know, you, you getthis mindset of, you know, home,
you know, that's where you live,but actually.
It isn't necessarily just that.
It's the roots you put down thenetworks you build, you know,
that whole kind of situationthat you create for yourself
becomes home.
really interested to see how didyou find sort of upping sticks
with a young daughter moving toanother state and kind of
(15:04):
starting again, how did thatkind of impact feeling of home
for you?
Ayo Haynes, Open Adoption (15:09):
Hey, literally never thought I would
leave New York.
I love New York that much.
I loved my friends.
I loved how I grew up a diversegroup of friends from all walks
of life.
I went to a very diverse school,um, high school and literally
my, um, best.
My doubles partner was from SriLanka.
(15:31):
I had a boyfriend who wasJewish.
I had friends who are Greek.
I had, it was so such amishmash.
Example of what New York Cityis.
When I went to college, I was infor a little bit of a shock
because I didn't get that.
I thought Boston would be thesame way, but you know, you're
at a smaller school.
It's a business school.
(15:52):
It was very new England y.
So I, I actually had a bit ofculture shock there being, You
know, one of the few black womenthere are black students.
Um, and so I dashed back to NewYork to live after school, but
then in my thirties, I startedreally getting tired of it.
And I, and certainly by my latethirties, I had a Been tired of
(16:17):
living in a co op.
And if you don't, if yourviewers don't know what a co op
is, it's a, an apartmentbuilding where you have an
apartment and you own it, butyou only own shares of it.
Right?
So you don't really own it.
It's not real property andliving with nosy neighbors.
And, you know, I found myselfcoming home every single day.
And as soon as I crossed mythreshold, all the energy and
(16:40):
excitement that I felt beforethen just depleted.
And so I, I realized after afew, Times of knocking my head
against the wall.
You got to get out of here.
This is not where you're beingfed.
And I think a lot of times whenyou grow up in the same
building, my mother lived in thesame building, you know, there
(17:01):
was this attachment, but whenshe, she passed away the same
year I adopted, in fact, whenshe passed away, even more so,
there was no reason for me tostay in New York.
Everyone, all of my extendedfamily had gone except for my
mother's sister.
And.
So I had property in Connecticutand I said, well, you know what?
It's empty.
Let's go, let's just try it out.
(17:23):
And every time we came up forthe weekend, I had a dog at the
time who basically was my firstchild, literally before my
adoptive child came into mylife.
And the dog would go runningcrazy around.
The baby was like all excited.
She was excited anyway, but, andI, maybe she was even more
excited because I felt like Icould breathe and I didn't have
(17:45):
four walls and didn't like myneighbors.
So after doing that a couple ofweeks, weekends, it was like,
okay, what's the point of goingback?
Cause as soon as I went back,that same feeling happened.
And so, um, Although it took awhile, that adjustment was super
easy.
I met friends.
(18:05):
I I'm living exactly what Iwant.
And I have a group of friendsand my daughter has a group of
friends that we can gettogether.
It's just an easier lifestylethan big city living.
Daniel Rock (18:18):
That's really cool.
And I think, yeah, it, it's, itis an interesting one when you
make that move, it's oftenscarier than the outcome
actually is.
kind of, sort of want to go backto the adoption piece with you
for a little bit.
Obviously you are a proponent ofopen adoption for those of
people that may not understandthe difference between closed
adoption and open adoption.
Do you want to kind of justexplain that a little bit and
(18:40):
kind of why
Ayo Haynes, Open Adoption (18:40):
Sure.
Daniel Rock (18:41):
open adoption path?
Ayo Haynes, Open Adoption (18:43):
Well, I would say right about now,
almost every adoption is openunless there's some really
strange, extenuatingcircumstances back during the.
During my mother's times whenpeople were boomers that age
group, there was shame aboutgetting pregnant outside of
marriage and you know, the, thewoman went away and had the baby
(19:07):
and the, you know, the, therewas a convent involved or
something like that are home forgirls.
And then there would be thisadoption that would happen in
secret.
With, um, no information passedabout who the person was,
circumstances, all of that,that's a closed adoption and
open adoptions.
When you do know who the birthparents are, when you do know
(19:30):
the circumstances, that's opennow.
Most people today have a semiopen because yes, they know the
information about the birthparent, but they don't know they
don't have a relationship withthe birth parent.
So that's what I call an openadoption when I actually have a
relationship with the birthfamily that is including um, Not
(19:55):
just them.
It's me and the adoptive child.
And we obviously have the childin common.
We have the child's wellbeing incommon.
And so by being able to haveconversations with them, to be
respectful and have this openexchange, obviously not every
situation is going to openitself or lend itself to an open
(20:15):
adoption.
And I'm not saying that they'rein your life 24, seven.
And, you know, You speak to themevery day.
If that is your situation, ifyou worked up to that, then
great, you know, that would bethe ideal, but you don't have
to.
But again, it's all abouthaving, um, an open dialogue
available with the birth family.
(20:37):
without shame, fear or regret.
And then there's also the partthat's so crucial in your home.
You have to have an opendialogue with your child,
letting them know that they areadopted.
It would be the worst.
experience for that child to notknow that they're adopted when
(20:59):
everybody else in your worldknows that they're adopted.
And then it's a ticking timebomb when someone drops it on
them and they're not emotionallyequipped or ready to hear it.
You should always be the onethat starts that conversation.
So that's how I like to explainwhat open adoption is.
It's with having a relationshipwith the birth family, but also
(21:20):
being open with your child abouthow your family came to be.
Daniel Rock (21:24):
Yeah, and how have you managed that with your
daughter?
How have you sort of managedthat conversation as she's got
older and perhaps herunderstanding of what that means
changes?
Ayo Haynes, Open Adoption (21:34):
It's funny because people go, why,
why would you tell her she'sadopted my, well, why wouldn't I
tell her she's adopted?
That's exactly what she is.
She's adopted.
I couldn't have a child and Godgranted this, this put us
together, put me together withthis woman who picked me to be
her mother.
So, um.
(21:54):
The conversation just startedwhen she was very young, maybe
about two or three, um, readingto her, reading a books about
adoption, showing that this isanother child who's come to
their family through adoption.
The baby, the baby, you didn'tgrow in the mommy's stomach, but
(22:14):
that you are just as love as ifyou were.
And it wasn't anything that was.
Weird or strange because shedoesn't know any different.
It's just, okay.
It's a great story.
I'm the same way.
Oh my goodness.
Wow.
And you put love around thestory.
You put love around how you cameto be and joy and grace.
(22:37):
And it just becomes an amazingreality.
Daniel Rock (22:42):
That's a lovely way of framing it.
I really like that.
Um, in terms of the, the adopt,the adoptee parents, I may not
get the
Ayo Haynes, Open Adoption S (22:54):
The birth parents
Daniel Rock (22:55):
birth
Ayo Haynes, Open Adoption (22:55):
like me, the adoptive.
Daniel Rock (22:57):
Um,
Ayo Haynes, Open Adoption S (22:57):
The birth parents.
Yes.
Daniel Rock (22:59):
their involvement and how that interacts into your
home life and kind of, uh, I'dbe really keen to sort of
understand, you sort ofmentioned you have an open
relationship with them.
How does that kind of shapedaughter's upbringing or your
daughter's perception of home?
Do you think
Ayo Haynes, Open Adoption Suc (23:17):
I think it makes her feel so
comfortable.
So, um, someone actually broughtme one of my then friends, uh,
brought me to the, brought tothe hospital, a big bear and
for, for my daughter.
And she got it from thehospital, um, gift store.
(23:38):
And I thought, I said, Oh, whywouldn't it be great if I Got
the same bear and gave it to thebirth mother, and then there
would be a connection.
And um, so I, you know, I justgave it to her and I said, you
know, when you look at the bear,you can think about your
daughter who also has the samebear.
(23:58):
There's that connection.
And I really didn't give it muchthought beyond that.
And then.
Yeah.
Mm hmm.
When we finally have theopportunity to meet, which was
several years later, I think mydaughter was about four, three
or four.
Um, is she, I don't know what mydaughter was perceiving, but she
(24:20):
kind of knew, and I wish I hadlike a tape recorder in my brain
to go back to that moment.
But what I can say is after shemet her birth mother that day,
she started calling that bear.
The same bear that they hadtogether by her birth mother's
name.
(24:41):
She on her own renamed the bearto her birth mother's name.
Amazing.
Amazing.
Right.
Daniel Rock (24:52):
and I think that's what I really like about that is
how normal it is, you know, andI think that's, I think we as
human beings sometimes overdefinitely overcomplicate
things.
like we need to hold things backin terms of the knowledge that
we share.
Perhaps because of how we thinkother people might react or, you
(25:15):
know, because of any perceivedstigma.
And I just love how normalizedeverything is in the way that
you've spoke about that andtalked about that.
What advice do you give topeople wanting to do that
journey and having maybe sometrepidation around sort of
reactions or feelings?
Yeah.
Ayo Haynes, Open Adoption (25:36):
just starts with having a
conversation.
Even just today, I had aconversation with someone who
said, was telling about her sonand his wife who were having
problems.
Um, and it didn't work.
So that's it.
And, and just, but she keptsaying, I think they're, they're
(25:58):
done with that.
I said, well, why don't you havea conversation with them instead
of thinking it's okay to askpeople this, you know, you're
not asking it in an intrusiveway, but you can just say, Hey,
you know what?
Yeah.
I saw this amazing woman talkingabout adoption and how it
changed her life and how sheworks with women.
And it has changed their life.
Did you ever think about thisor, you know, here, let me send
(26:21):
you this clip, just somethingthat opens the door to have a
conversation.
And I find that if we stoptrying to protect each other and
just have really adultconversations that are
heartfelt, we would be In such abetter place as a society, but
(26:43):
we have all these conversationsin our minds about what they're
going to say, how they're goingto react.
We're going to offend them.
I don't want to make them sad.
And it's like, we're, we'rehuman beings.
We have all these emotions andit's up to us to work through
them.
And hopefully.
You're talking with somebody whocan make that conversation a
(27:05):
little easier to have.
And so I would say if you'rehaving that desire to be a mom,
whether you're single or acouple, reach out to me.
You know, I have a websitecalled open adoption, success.
com, and you can reach me ondifferent socials.
I have literature and freebiesthat will help you walk through.
(27:28):
Is this really what I want?
Is this my life non negotiable,which is what I always say
motherhood was for me at thatstage when I had that critical
time to decide if I was going tobe single for the rest of my
life, if I, um, or not, Ishouldn't say a mother without
being a mother.
(27:48):
I'm going to start that again.
I'm going to.
So, um.
I had a critical time at thatage to decide if I'm going to
stay motherless, even I mightmarry later on, but that time of
being able to birth a child wasgone.
Did it matter?
(28:09):
If I didn't birth the child,could I still love another human
being as if it was mine?
And when I asked myself allthese different questions, the
answer was absolutely.
I didn't need to see myselfreplicated in a smaller human
being and see my features.
My desire to be a mother wasfrom a nurturing standpoint, not
of, uh, I, I need to see a minime.
(28:33):
And so if that is your life, nonnegotiable to be a mother, then
do it by all means, figure outhow you're going to do this.
Daniel Rock (28:42):
Thank you so much for that.
And I, I will absolutely includea link to the website in the
show notes so people can accessthat resource.
Cause I think it's incrediblyvaluable people who are kind of
considering kind of those, whatdo I do?
So obviously besides, um,visiting website and using
resources and engaging you, whatare the sort of the first steps
(29:02):
that people should take they'reabout to start this journey?
Ayo Haynes, Open Adoption (29:07):
Yeah, I have a great questionnaire
that I give all of the peoplethat I work with before they
start.
And it's just.
A simple questionnaire.
There's no right or wronganswers.
It's just to prompt aconversation with yourself.
Is this what I can do?
Do am I financially secure to dothis?
Do I have a network of peoplethat can come around and support
(29:29):
me?
Um, Who cannot, do I have thekind of job that will support me
being a single mother?
Do I need to change that job?
All these different questions.
And so again, there's no rightor wrong answer, but with those
answers, you can decide whereyou need to make changes and
what your timeline is.
Do you want a boy?
Do you want a girl?
Can you, as a single woman?
(29:50):
Become the mother of a child whohas physical needs, like
physical ailments and stuff likethat.
These are real questions andsome people are equipped for
that and then others will not.
So again, it's really taking thetime to craft your own story as
to how you envision your future.
(30:12):
Your journey to motherhood fromthere, do your research, go
online, see what adoptionagencies are out there, what
their requirements are.
Um, find out how much it costs.
And then I would say, don't waitmuch longer, right?
Your forties and fifties.
We have a lot of wisdom that wecan share with our audience
(30:35):
Younger children, our children,we have a lot more patients.
Generally, we have a lot moreresources, but time is still not
on our side.
Right?
And so you want to have childrenwhile you're still young, you
want to get in shape and behealthy as well, you know, so
you can be there for the longhaul.
So all of those things, it'sjust a matter of.
(30:57):
Before you get overwhelmed andthen you go, forget it, I can't
do it.
Have a conversation, findsomeone who can walk you through
the process and be yourcheerleader and be the person in
your ear, giving you the rightencouragement and advice.
Daniel Rock (31:13):
Awesome.
Thank you so much for that.
And I've really loved having youon.
I, it's been a really lovelyconversation and a really
inspiring journey.
So thank you so much for that.
I've really, really appreciateyour time.
thank you everybody forlistening to this week's episode
of wherever I lay my hat, whichpodcast about home.
But you can see today, thoseconversations can be quite
(31:34):
different, which is really,really exciting and, and like
really.
Reassuring a lot of the time aswell.
So I've loved that again, as Isaid before, this is a show
about your stories.
So if you're interested intaking part, please email me at
Dan at wherever I lay my hat.
com and I would love to hearfrom you.
Thank you so much.
And tune in again next week.
Okay.
Daniel Rock (00:06):
Welcome to where I lay my hat, a podcast about
home.
Um, this week's a littledifferent and I'm excited to
Ayo Haynes, Open Adoption (00:12):
Yes,
Daniel Rock (00:35):
thanks for having, thanks for joining us.
And I'd love to start with youkind of giving us a little bit
of your background andintroducing yourself.
Ayo Haynes, Open Adoption (00:43):
thank you for having me.
So as you said, my name is AyoHaynes.
I'm an open adoption specialist.
I.
help, uh, women in their fortiesand fifties become mothers
through adoption.
Some may have never been mothersbefore.
Some may have had children thatare grown and they have decided
to adopt again.
Um, but it's a wonderfulbusiness of helping other people
(01:08):
achieve their dreams.
And, and you see little miracleshappen every single day, almost.
Daniel Rock (01:16):
That's lovely.
You know, and I think it is avery worthy thing do.
And I think, you know, it's,it's one of those things where
there's a lot of people who maynot have privilege that some of
us have had growing up, youknow, in, in that standard
nuclear family, which to befair, and then mine was very
privileged, but not everyone'sstandard nuclear family is
actually as privileged asperhaps we make out.
(01:36):
Um, I'd love to sort of hear howyou came to this and how you
came to, on your journey todecide adoption was the right
path for you.
Ayo Haynes, Open Adoption (01:43):
I'll, I'll start by what you were just
talking about.
My family was not necessarilywhat people would call standard.
You know, I came from a singlemother household.
My, they, my parents weremarried, but my dad was also a
jazz musician, so he.
He traveled a lot and his careerwas priority.
(02:04):
And so my mother had to make herhome with me and with the
support of her brothers andsisters, as she put herself
through, um, uh, two yearcollege, then onto a four year
college all the way to get her,her PhD in divinity.
So, um, you know, I come from aninteresting, Group of, of a
(02:29):
family members who have reallymade it their goal to help the
family within each other, likeon one side of the family, the
other side of the family wasvery distant.
I didn't have a relationshipwith them, but I learned my
sense of family and home from mymother and from her brothers and
sisters and all of my cousins.
(02:49):
And it's still.
Is what I yearn for as an adultis that same feeling when we
were younger, when everyone cameto each other's houses and it
was, uh, you felt so much pridewhen you can say your cousin.
I grew up as an only child, so Icouldn't say my brothers or
sisters, but my cousins were mybrothers and sisters.
(03:10):
Um, And I grew up in New Yorkcity, you know, which is unique
unto itself.
A lot of people wonder what it'slike to live in a place like
that.
And it was wonderful until itwasn't for me anymore.
And I felt like I had to leavenot only for my own sanity, but
also because my family had grownto, I was, I had become an
(03:31):
adoptive mother.
Daniel Rock (03:33):
And so let's touch on that a little bit.
I'll, I'll carry on your journeya little bit.
I know reading your bio, therewas, um, some flirtations of
more than the flirtation withHollywood and some, some career
aspirations there that youchanged because of the journey
that you took, do you want tojust sort of touch on that a
little bit for us?
Ayo Haynes, Open Adoption (03:51):
Sure.
So I became an actress incollege, very small parts and
jobs, just locally.
It was my college job.
Some people work in thebookstore.
I did little jobs around town inBoston, um, for different
companies and, um, became reallyin love with the whole world of
acting.
(04:11):
Uh, but I was at school on ascholarship.
And, uh, getting my BA and myMBA within five years on this
great scholarship.
And I had this incredibleopportunity over the summer of
my junior year, I believe it waswhere I worked for a Broadway
theater company and, um, Istumbled into this huge acting
job and met people who took meunder their wings.
(04:32):
And I just fell in love withacting that summer.
And I declared to my mother thatI wasn't going back to school.
And thankfully she prevailed andsaid, no, let's work out a deal.
You'll go back, you'll get thisdegree.
And after that, you can dowhatever you want with acting.
I'll give you five years, so tospeak.
And I did that and I was workingimmediately right after school.
(04:55):
In fact, the week before Ifinished my last set of classes,
I had booked a children's show.
Um, and so.
It was validation that thiscould happen.
So I've been an actor for over30 years now, I believe.
And I, um, the, the story you'retalking about is when I had an
incredible opportunity on acomedy show by one of the top
(05:19):
comedians at the time.
And, um, they kind of pulled afast one on me.
The audition was verystraightforward and, um, improv,
improvisation aspect to it.
And they said, Oh, we can't giveyou the script because it's very
top secret, but we'll, we'llgive it to you afterwards, you
know, later.
So when they did give it to me,it was when I was already at
(05:41):
the, um, the table read toactually meet everyone, the
producers, directors, thecomedian himself.
And, um, I, as I was reading thescript, I said, Oh my goodness,
I can't, I can't do this.
I can't say this and live withmyself.
So long story short with thatstory is I walked off.
(06:03):
I walked off the set and Ididn't look back.
And it was actually one of thefirst times that I started
really knowing how much selfpower I had over.
The decisions I made and nottaking anything that was thrown
at me and not feeling like Ididn't have a voice or choice in
(06:23):
how my life would play out.
And I didn't want to live withregret for that moment.
And that really informed how Imoved forward with my decision
to become an adoptive mom.
You know, I tried IUI, I triedIVF, I tried being in a
relationship that would go tomarriage that didn't work.
And so, um, By the time I was atthis really critical stage of
(06:46):
fertility in my early forties, Ihad no real choices left after
the, the fertility treatmentsdidn't work.
So I decided to do adoption.
Um, and it worked and it workedprofoundly and has been amazing.
And it's been a way for me tolearn even more about myself
because.
The adoption process is fraughtwith ups and downs and feeling
(07:09):
pressure to take whatever babycomes along.
You do have a choice.
You can say no to situations.
And so that acting situation asmany years before.
It was, it really did inform howI went through the adoption
process, speaking up for myselfsaying, no, this is not how I
envisioned being a mother.
(07:30):
Um, so this situation is notgoing to work.
This situation will, what I'mgoing to say on my brochures,
um, all of those things that Istood up for myself.
And so now all these yearslater, I stand up for my
clients.
I'm an adoption doula.
I like to say.
You know, and I, I helped themfind their voice through the
adoption process.
(07:51):
And I'm not, not acting, butit's not my priority at the
moment.
I'm still, I'm really focusingon my, my coaching.
Daniel Rock (08:01):
And so talking a little bit more about that
process, what, what was theprocess like for you, I suppose,
you know, I'm really interestedto hear a little bit about that
because again, I think probablypeople have a, know, I probably
do, I'm talking my thing, aconceived idea of kind of what
adoption is and how that processworks.
So I'd be really interested tounderstand how that process
falls for you and, and kind ofwhat are some of the.
(08:23):
suppose kind of myths or kind ofpreconceptions that people have
about the process.
Ayo Haynes, Open Adoptio (08:28):
Right.
So it's not unlike buying ahouse and it sounds crude, but
there's a ton of paperwork andthere's a lot of processes that
can't be overlooked that youcan't jump around.
Um, and you work with somebodywho is helping you through the
process.
So if you're buying a house.
If you have a mortgage broker ormortgage banker, if you're
(08:51):
adopting a baby, you're workingwith a social worker or an
agency to, uh, navigate theadoption process to fill out the
right paperwork in the rightorder, get the fingerprints,
send them off to DC, get themapproved by Homeland security.
You are providing all of yourfinancial details, including
(09:11):
your tax returns and yourinsurance documents.
I mean, it's, it's very intense.
And so I always tell peopledon't.
Get offended by all thequestions and how much
information they want from you.
It's part of the process, right?
You either fight it or you justgo with it.
Um, and you will get frustratedbecause documents will expire.
(09:34):
Hopefully your home studydoesn't expire.
A home study is valid for acertain amount of time.
And then you would have to havea small redo, but generally it's
safe.
It's a lot of hurry up and waitand be picked.
And that was my process.
That was exactly what I wentthrough and it was frustrating
not having someone to walk methrough that from an outside
(09:57):
perspective of outside of theagency and the social worker.
And so that's what I do for myclients.
Daniel Rock (10:04):
Just kind of kind of want to explore a couple of
things around the concept ofhome with with this with the
process.
Obviously, you mentioned.
previously around kind of theway you grew up in a single
mother household, but with amuch wider family kind of input
as opposed into your, into theway that you were raised and the
way that kind of, you know, thatpiece in New Zealand, they have
(10:25):
a, which is where I spent, youknow, 20, 20 odd years of my
life in, in multicultural, theyhave a concept called Fano,
which is in, is in a directtranslation that means family,
but actually it's kind of a lotmore complex than that.
It's a, it's a real sort ofdeeper, more emotional,
physical.
Concept around an entire threeor four generations raising
(10:48):
Children together as part of awider family network.
And I've probably butchered thatmeaning a little bit and I try
to be respectful as I can.
But it's a really interestingconcept that goes behind perhaps
the anglicized version of familythat I would have grown up in.
You know, which is mom, dad, andthen you have some cousins, you
might see a family events andmaybe hang out with occasionally
(11:08):
it, what is not really thatcompletely integrated family
concept that is.
Um, I'd be interested to hearkinda from where you've gone or
from what your background was inthe way that your family was and
to becoming an adoptive mother,how has that shaped your feeling
of home and family?
Ayo Haynes, Open Adoption Su (11:28):
So it's interesting.
I told you about my experienceas a young child growing up with
all of my cousins around.
We even went to the same camp,summer camp.
Like we really felt like we tookover the camp and it felt
amazing to be able to say, Iknow him, I know her and we were
connected.
Um, growing up, that was myreality as an adult, because I
(11:52):
had my children so late.
So much later than all of mycousins, there are very few
cousins that my daughter has.
So I've had to make myadditional family members out of
friends.
And that was one of the reasonswhy I moved from New York to
Connecticut because I felt soisolated in New York and moving
(12:14):
into suburban atmosphere.
You know, my daughter's schooland her playmates families
become friends.
And I was able to, as a realtor,bring some friends up from, from
New York who wanted the samekind of escape of New York to
(12:34):
Connecticut.
So they have become my, mybrother and sister.
Um, and their daughter is myniece.
And, you know, I have peoplelike that, that I can fill in
the gaps because my, the familymembers that I grew up with are
all over the U S they're notwhere I'm at.
Um, and so I miss that for mydaughter.
(12:55):
I miss that for her to have thatkind of experience.
And the funny thing is many ofher really good friends from
school.
Are also only children, right?
So it's a little easier that wayto, to be able to connect with
families that have onlychildren, girls to foster that
(13:17):
kind of same home feeling forthem.
Daniel Rock (13:19):
think that's becoming more common.
And, you know, if I look at now,my situation is different.
You know, we, my wife and I hada daughter last year now I'm in
my, you know, I'm 46, I was 45when Lily arrived.
So, you know, an older fatherfor the first time and very much
the same.
We were both living in NewZealand and I'm from the UK
originally, my wife's from the US um, and so we didn't have
(13:39):
family now.
I have a wonderful friendnetwork and our daughter had
some health challenges when she
Ayo Haynes, Open Adoption (13:45):
Okay.
Daniel Rock (14:01):
I've got an actual niece who is almost 30 and I've
got my best friend in the world,his son and daughter, his
daughter's 20, his son's almost16, you know, it's, and that
there, I've considered them myniece and nephew since they were
born.
But you know, that's notsomebody who's going to play
with my.
One year old
Ayo Haynes, Open Adoption (14:20):
Okay.
Daniel Rock (14:20):
two year old, you know, so of the decisions we
made as a family was to moveback to the U S to be closer to
family.
Um, my wife, Katie, she's gotfriends who've got young kids
and it's a network and we've gotfamily, actual family here, and
we've been able to blend that inand it does mean, you know, and
that's one of the reasons Istarted this podcast is because
(14:42):
that whole, know, you, you getthis mindset of, you know, home,
you know, that's where you live,but actually.
It isn't necessarily just that.
It's the roots you put down thenetworks you build, you know,
that whole kind of situationthat you create for yourself
becomes home.
really interested to see how didyou find sort of upping sticks
with a young daughter moving toanother state and kind of
(15:04):
starting again, how did thatkind of impact feeling of home
for you?
Ayo Haynes, Open Adoption (15:09):
Hey, literally never thought I would
leave New York.
I love New York that much.
I loved my friends.
I loved how I grew up a diversegroup of friends from all walks
of life.
I went to a very diverse school,um, high school and literally
my, um, best.
My doubles partner was from SriLanka.
(15:31):
I had a boyfriend who wasJewish.
I had friends who are Greek.
I had, it was so such amishmash.
Example of what New York Cityis.
When I went to college, I was infor a little bit of a shock
because I didn't get that.
I thought Boston would be thesame way, but you know, you're
at a smaller school.
It's a business school.
(15:52):
It was very new England y.
So I, I actually had a bit ofculture shock there being, You
know, one of the few black womenthere are black students.
Um, and so I dashed back to NewYork to live after school, but
then in my thirties, I startedreally getting tired of it.
And I, and certainly by my latethirties, I had a Been tired of
(16:17):
living in a co op.
And if you don't, if yourviewers don't know what a co op
is, it's a, an apartmentbuilding where you have an
apartment and you own it, butyou only own shares of it.
Right?
So you don't really own it.
It's not real property andliving with nosy neighbors.
And, you know, I found myselfcoming home every single day.
And as soon as I crossed mythreshold, all the energy and
(16:40):
excitement that I felt beforethen just depleted.
And so I, I realized after afew, Times of knocking my head
against the wall.
You got to get out of here.
This is not where you're beingfed.
And I think a lot of times whenyou grow up in the same
building, my mother lived in thesame building, you know, there
(17:01):
was this attachment, but whenshe, she passed away the same
year I adopted, in fact, whenshe passed away, even more so,
there was no reason for me tostay in New York.
Everyone, all of my extendedfamily had gone except for my
mother's sister.
And.
So I had property in Connecticutand I said, well, you know what?
It's empty.
Let's go, let's just try it out.
(17:23):
And every time we came up forthe weekend, I had a dog at the
time who basically was my firstchild, literally before my
adoptive child came into mylife.
And the dog would go runningcrazy around.
The baby was like all excited.
She was excited anyway, but, andI, maybe she was even more
excited because I felt like Icould breathe and I didn't have
(17:45):
four walls and didn't like myneighbors.
So after doing that a couple ofweeks, weekends, it was like,
okay, what's the point of goingback?
Cause as soon as I went back,that same feeling happened.
And so, um, Although it took awhile, that adjustment was super
easy.
I met friends.
(18:05):
I I'm living exactly what Iwant.
And I have a group of friendsand my daughter has a group of
friends that we can gettogether.
It's just an easier lifestylethan big city living.
Daniel Rock (18:18):
That's really cool.
And I think, yeah, it, it's, itis an interesting one when you
make that move, it's oftenscarier than the outcome
actually is.
kind of, sort of want to go backto the adoption piece with you
for a little bit.
Obviously you are a proponent ofopen adoption for those of
people that may not understandthe difference between closed
adoption and open adoption.
Do you want to kind of justexplain that a little bit and
(18:40):
kind of why
Ayo Haynes, Open Adoption (18:40):
Sure.
Daniel Rock (18:41):
open adoption path?
Ayo Haynes, Open Adoption (18:43):
Well, I would say right about now,
almost every adoption is openunless there's some really
strange, extenuatingcircumstances back during the.
During my mother's times whenpeople were boomers that age
group, there was shame aboutgetting pregnant outside of
marriage and you know, the, thewoman went away and had the baby
(19:07):
and the, you know, the, therewas a convent involved or
something like that are home forgirls.
And then there would be thisadoption that would happen in
secret.
With, um, no information passedabout who the person was,
circumstances, all of that,that's a closed adoption and
open adoptions.
When you do know who the birthparents are, when you do know
(19:30):
the circumstances, that's opennow.
Most people today have a semiopen because yes, they know the
information about the birthparent, but they don't know they
don't have a relationship withthe birth parent.
So that's what I call an openadoption when I actually have a
relationship with the birthfamily that is including um, Not
(19:55):
just them.
It's me and the adoptive child.
And we obviously have the childin common.
We have the child's wellbeing incommon.
And so by being able to haveconversations with them, to be
respectful and have this openexchange, obviously not every
situation is going to openitself or lend itself to an open
(20:15):
adoption.
And I'm not saying that they'rein your life 24, seven.
And, you know, You speak to themevery day.
If that is your situation, ifyou worked up to that, then
great, you know, that would bethe ideal, but you don't have
to.
But again, it's all abouthaving, um, an open dialogue
available with the birth family.
(20:37):
without shame, fear or regret.
And then there's also the partthat's so crucial in your home.
You have to have an opendialogue with your child,
letting them know that they areadopted.
It would be the worst.
experience for that child to notknow that they're adopted when
(20:59):
everybody else in your worldknows that they're adopted.
And then it's a ticking timebomb when someone drops it on
them and they're not emotionallyequipped or ready to hear it.
You should always be the onethat starts that conversation.
So that's how I like to explainwhat open adoption is.
It's with having a relationshipwith the birth family, but also
(21:20):
being open with your child abouthow your family came to be.
Daniel Rock (21:24):
Yeah, and how have you managed that with your
daughter?
How have you sort of managedthat conversation as she's got
older and perhaps herunderstanding of what that means
changes?
Ayo Haynes, Open Adoption (21:34):
It's funny because people go, why,
why would you tell her she'sadopted my, well, why wouldn't I
tell her she's adopted?
That's exactly what she is.
She's adopted.
I couldn't have a child and Godgranted this, this put us
together, put me together withthis woman who picked me to be
her mother.
So, um.
(21:54):
The conversation just startedwhen she was very young, maybe
about two or three, um, readingto her, reading a books about
adoption, showing that this isanother child who's come to
their family through adoption.
The baby, the baby, you didn'tgrow in the mommy's stomach, but
(22:14):
that you are just as love as ifyou were.
And it wasn't anything that was.
Weird or strange because shedoesn't know any different.
It's just, okay.
It's a great story.
I'm the same way.
Oh my goodness.
Wow.
And you put love around thestory.
You put love around how you cameto be and joy and grace.
(22:37):
And it just becomes an amazingreality.
Daniel Rock (22:42):
That's a lovely way of framing it.
I really like that.
Um, in terms of the, the adopt,the adoptee parents, I may not
get the
Ayo Haynes, Open Adoption S (22:54):
The birth parents
Daniel Rock (22:55):
birth
Ayo Haynes, Open Adoption (22:55):
like me, the adoptive.
Daniel Rock (22:57):
Um,
Ayo Haynes, Open Adoption S (22:57):
The birth parents.
Yes.
Daniel Rock (22:59):
their involvement and how that interacts into your
home life and kind of, uh, I'dbe really keen to sort of
understand, you sort ofmentioned you have an open
relationship with them.
How does that kind of shapedaughter's upbringing or your
daughter's perception of home?
Do you think
Ayo Haynes, Open Adoption Suc (23:17):
I think it makes her feel so
comfortable.
So, um, someone actually broughtme one of my then friends, uh,
brought me to the, brought tothe hospital, a big bear and
for, for my daughter.
And she got it from thehospital, um, gift store.
(23:38):
And I thought, I said, Oh, whywouldn't it be great if I Got
the same bear and gave it to thebirth mother, and then there
would be a connection.
And um, so I, you know, I justgave it to her and I said, you
know, when you look at the bear,you can think about your
daughter who also has the samebear.
(23:58):
There's that connection.
And I really didn't give it muchthought beyond that.
And then.
Yeah.
Mm hmm.
When we finally have theopportunity to meet, which was
several years later, I think mydaughter was about four, three
or four.
Um, is she, I don't know what mydaughter was perceiving, but she
(24:20):
kind of knew, and I wish I hadlike a tape recorder in my brain
to go back to that moment.
But what I can say is after shemet her birth mother that day,
she started calling that bear.
The same bear that they hadtogether by her birth mother's
name.
(24:41):
She on her own renamed the bearto her birth mother's name.
Amazing.
Amazing.
Right.
Daniel Rock (24:52):
and I think that's what I really like about that is
how normal it is, you know, andI think that's, I think we as
human beings sometimes overdefinitely overcomplicate
things.
like we need to hold things backin terms of the knowledge that
we share.
Perhaps because of how we thinkother people might react or, you
(25:15):
know, because of any perceivedstigma.
And I just love how normalizedeverything is in the way that
you've spoke about that andtalked about that.
What advice do you give topeople wanting to do that
journey and having maybe sometrepidation around sort of
reactions or feelings?
Yeah.
Ayo Haynes, Open Adoption (25:36):
just starts with having a
conversation.
Even just today, I had aconversation with someone who
said, was telling about her sonand his wife who were having
problems.
Um, and it didn't work.
So that's it.
And, and just, but she keptsaying, I think they're, they're
(25:58):
done with that.
I said, well, why don't you havea conversation with them instead
of thinking it's okay to askpeople this, you know, you're
not asking it in an intrusiveway, but you can just say, Hey,
you know what?
Yeah.
I saw this amazing woman talkingabout adoption and how it
changed her life and how sheworks with women.
And it has changed their life.
Did you ever think about thisor, you know, here, let me send
(26:21):
you this clip, just somethingthat opens the door to have a
conversation.
And I find that if we stoptrying to protect each other and
just have really adultconversations that are
heartfelt, we would be In such abetter place as a society, but
(26:43):
we have all these conversationsin our minds about what they're
going to say, how they're goingto react.
We're going to offend them.
I don't want to make them sad.
And it's like, we're, we'rehuman beings.
We have all these emotions andit's up to us to work through
them.
And hopefully.
You're talking with somebody whocan make that conversation a
(27:05):
little easier to have.
And so I would say if you'rehaving that desire to be a mom,
whether you're single or acouple, reach out to me.
You know, I have a websitecalled open adoption, success.
com, and you can reach me ondifferent socials.
I have literature and freebiesthat will help you walk through.
(27:28):
Is this really what I want?
Is this my life non negotiable,which is what I always say
motherhood was for me at thatstage when I had that critical
time to decide if I was going tobe single for the rest of my
life, if I, um, or not, Ishouldn't say a mother without
being a mother.
(27:48):
I'm going to start that again.
I'm going to.
So, um.
I had a critical time at thatage to decide if I'm going to
stay motherless, even I mightmarry later on, but that time of
being able to birth a child wasgone.
Did it matter?
(28:09):
If I didn't birth the child,could I still love another human
being as if it was mine?
And when I asked myself allthese different questions, the
answer was absolutely.
I didn't need to see myselfreplicated in a smaller human
being and see my features.
My desire to be a mother wasfrom a nurturing standpoint, not
of, uh, I, I need to see a minime.
(28:33):
And so if that is your life, nonnegotiable to be a mother, then
do it by all means, figure outhow you're going to do this.
Daniel Rock (28:42):
Thank you so much for that.
And I, I will absolutely includea link to the website in the
show notes so people can accessthat resource.
Cause I think it's incrediblyvaluable people who are kind of
considering kind of those, whatdo I do?
So obviously besides, um,visiting website and using
resources and engaging you, whatare the sort of the first steps
(29:02):
that people should take they'reabout to start this journey?
Ayo Haynes, Open Adoption (29:07):
Yeah, I have a great questionnaire
that I give all of the peoplethat I work with before they
start.
And it's just.
A simple questionnaire.
There's no right or wronganswers.
It's just to prompt aconversation with yourself.
Is this what I can do?
Do am I financially secure to dothis?
Do I have a network of peoplethat can come around and support
(29:29):
me?
Um, Who cannot, do I have thekind of job that will support me
being a single mother?
Do I need to change that job?
All these different questions.
And so again, there's no rightor wrong answer, but with those
answers, you can decide whereyou need to make changes and
what your timeline is.
Do you want a boy?
Do you want a girl?
Can you, as a single woman?
(29:50):
Become the mother of a child whohas physical needs, like
physical ailments and stuff likethat.
These are real questions andsome people are equipped for
that and then others will not.
So again, it's really taking thetime to craft your own story as
to how you envision your future.
(30:12):
Your journey to motherhood fromthere, do your research, go
online, see what adoptionagencies are out there, what
their requirements are.
Um, find out how much it costs.
And then I would say, don't waitmuch longer, right?
Your forties and fifties.
We have a lot of wisdom that wecan share with our audience
(30:35):
Younger children, our children,we have a lot more patients.
Generally, we have a lot moreresources, but time is still not
on our side.
Right?
And so you want to have childrenwhile you're still young, you
want to get in shape and behealthy as well, you know, so
you can be there for the longhaul.
So all of those things, it'sjust a matter of.
(30:57):
Before you get overwhelmed andthen you go, forget it, I can't
do it.
Have a conversation, findsomeone who can walk you through
the process and be yourcheerleader and be the person in
your ear, giving you the rightencouragement and advice.
Daniel Rock (31:13):
Awesome.
Thank you so much for that.
And I've really loved having youon.
I, it's been a really lovelyconversation and a really
inspiring journey.
So thank you so much for that.
I've really, really appreciateyour time.
thank you everybody forlistening to this week's episode
of wherever I lay my hat, whichpodcast about home.
But you can see today, thoseconversations can be quite
(31:34):
different, which is really,really exciting and, and like
really.
Reassuring a lot of the time aswell.
So I've loved that again, as Isaid before, this is a show
about your stories.
So if you're interested intaking part, please email me at
Dan at wherever I lay my hat.
com and I would love to hearfrom you.
Thank you so much.
And tune in again next week.
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