March 25, 2025 • 33 mins
This week on The Whisker Report, hosts Mary Tan, Alexane Ricard, and producer Mark Winter welcome Deborah Cribbs, founder of the impactful Give Them Ten Movement. Deborah shares how this growing initiative is transforming cat welfare by driving a national “Cat Culture Shift,” improving live release rates, and saving thousands of feline lives across multiple states. Tune in to learn how the movement began, the innovative campaigns they've launched — including the latest “Get a Cat for Your Cat” initiative — and how shelters, communities, and advocates can join the mission to double the love and change the way we all think about cats.
EPISODE NOTES: Give Them Ten: Saving Cats and Shaping a Feline-Friendly Future
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/whisker-report-pet-pr-publicity-pet-life-radio-original--6669416/support.
EPISODE NOTES: Give Them Ten: Saving Cats and Shaping a Feline-Friendly Future
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/whisker-report-pet-pr-publicity-pet-life-radio-original--6669416/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey LIVEABO is pet Life Radio. Let's talk pets.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Welcome to the Whisker Report.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
We're a new podcast dedicated to helping anyone in the
pet industry.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Whether you're an animal welfare or a for profit pet company,
get some pr and buzz for your nonprofit or business.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Hello everyone, I'm Mary Tam one of the hosts of
the show, along with my co host alexand Ricard, a
cat rescuer and public relations professional who hails from France
but now lives in the lovely.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
City of Vancouver. Voner Alex on, I.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
Hope you guys are having a wonderful day.
Speaker 5 (00:48):
It's the first day of spring.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Today doesn't feel like it's in Vancouver, but it's okay. Hey, Mark,
we're also Yeah, we'll here with our producer Mark Winter
pet Life, who gets us to you each and every
week him work.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
How are you?
Speaker 6 (01:04):
I'm good? And it's uh well, actually it's spring here
all year long in South Florida, so it is the
first day of spring, but no change here.
Speaker 5 (01:13):
Yeah, is it the.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
Day you're going to clean all of your closet? And like,
you know, what do you need to do in spring?
I think you need to get.
Speaker 6 (01:18):
Rid of the I'm getting ready to go to Global
That's what we do in Global pet Expo.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
That's already very busy.
Speaker 6 (01:26):
Yes, Mary, any fun thing's going to be.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
There, then yes, Oh my goodness. So I'm excited to
see Mark.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
I get to see Mark like once a year at
Global pet Expo, which is it is one of the
biggest pet product trade shows in the world. This one
is the biggest one that attracts an international crowd.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
It's actually Super Zoo is the other.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Big one, but this one has an international crowd, which
is why it's called Global Pet Expo.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
We have some fabulous clients.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Their boss nation Jaffie's Bone Broth, and the guy who
runs Jaffie's makes it all in his kitchen, like every
single bat she's like constantly cooking. And then the other
super fun thing is pet cakes, the birthday cake for
cat and dogs, super healthy product. She's having her fifteenth
(02:18):
birthday party there. There's going to be a party every day.
Cupcakes for humans and birthday cake for all the cats
and dogs who are there. And then I have two
presentations that I'm giving on PR So I'm looking forward
to this and looking forward to hanging out with everybody
like Mark and his wife Michelle and all the super
(02:40):
fun people that we only get to see once a year,
you know.
Speaker 7 (02:44):
So.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
But anyways, we're so honored to be part of Mark's
Pet Life Radio network.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
And what we want to tell you is that you
can do pr for yourself.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Of course, we'd love it if you hired us, but
we just know that is not, you know, financially possible
for a lot of startups and small rescues. So Alex,
Mark and I started this podcast to help you each
and every week.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
And today we're super lucky to have Deborah Crips from
the Give Them ten movement. Deborah is the mom of
the famous Scooter, the neuter cat, who has inspired thousands
and thousands of people to adopt and to sterilize cats. Deborah,
thank you so much for joining us. We feel very
grateful that you hear we see.
Speaker 5 (03:31):
Thank you, and I'm happy to be here too.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Love that little French.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
I was so excited to hear more about you, Deborah,
and I would like to start by asking you how
did you get involved in the cat world.
Speaker 5 (03:44):
Well that's a fun question, thank you. So by day
I'm a banker. I manage money for wealthy people, and
one of my clients died unexpectedly left the foundation in
my care along with my bank, and I manage this
foundation for the bank and it's the privilege and it's sizable.
(04:07):
And so imagine a bunch of bankers who do maths
and logic things getting involved in animal welfare in Cincinnati,
which is where we live. So that's where we started,
and we're like, okay, what are we doing here? Well,
the foundation is for the benefit of cats in Cincinnati.
That's super specific, and it's way too much money to
(04:29):
actually spend on that one thing, honestly, But because we're
math people and we're fiduciaries, we want to spend the
money wisely. So we started looking at, Okay, what's the
problem here. The problem is cats are being killed in shelters.
That affects cat welfare. We could buy every cat in
Cincinnati a bed and a phone, but that's really not
(04:52):
going to help the problem, is it. No, So I
like to say that's what started my team and I
and I love that you guys are trying about marketing
because you know, something else we decided way back when,
about a decade ago, is that we do want to
help our local partners with some infrastructure funding for spain
(05:15):
Hooter because that's the thing that we really think, well
we said it was the low hanging fruit. I like
the pun yit, but we think it's the low hanging
fruit the thing that we can make an impact on.
So that's sort of where we started. But an important
part of the work that we do is marketing, talking
(05:35):
to the public, because if you don't talk to the
public and help create a culture shift in society the
way people view cats, we're just going to chase our
tails and not get anywhere. So that's kind of the beginning.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
And you I think I've heard you mentioning a culture shift.
Could you tell me more about that, because I know
you called it like a cat culture shift.
Speaker 5 (05:58):
Well, we were really trying to be anthropologists. I guess
why are cats being killed in shelters? Well, there are
too many of them? Why are there too many of them?
We could go down a rabbit hole and there are
many reasons, but why are there too many of them?
Because the public hasn't really adopted spain Nooter for what
we call community cats, outdoor cats that are thriving and
(06:21):
happy for whatever reason, And we really wanted to use
the power of marketing talking to the public to shift
the public's perception about whether having cats outside is a
good or bad thing. We think that a healthy cat
living well outside and cared for is fine and I
(06:42):
would argue my team and I would argue better than
living in a shelter. So so yeah, we have a
really extensive marketing campaign that we've been doing for about
a decade talking to the public, and the way we
measure success is the live release rate in the shelf
that we work with. That's the percentage of cats that
(07:03):
leave alive. So we really do have a concrete way
of saying yep, we've succeeded. And interestingly, when we started
our work about a decade ago, the live release rate
in Cincinnati was about thirty some percent, but it was
really bad data. It was probably worse, and we're in
the hot ninety percentile. Now we're like ninety six percent
(07:26):
right now, So we're really proud of that.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
That's amazing. I can't believe it.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
So can you give us not to pry into like
getting into the nitty gritty, but tell us about your
marketing campaign. Tell us what are the elements that you're
using to, you know, get the message out about TNR.
Speaker 5 (07:47):
Well, I'm not a marketing professional, but I've been involved
in this a lot, so i'll speak to it just
from my perspective. We wanted, I hate this sounds like
a cliche, but we wanted to educate the public. And
I think the first thing you got to do is
build a brand for yourself. And our brand is kind
of edgy, funny. So once you have your brand, whatever
(08:11):
it may be, then there are all the outlets you
can use to talk to the public. And I think
it's interesting that a decade ago, the thing that probably
was the most impactful was our TV ads, which we
still run and are really popular, and I mean they're
very funny. But now everything is really pivoted to social,
(08:33):
which I'm sure you guys know. So we still do
some filming, but not only social but TikTok, right, So
that's reels, and the reels should not be professionally created.
The reels should be done on an iPhone vertically by
non professionals and look like that. So it's really interesting
(08:53):
how it's morphed. But we've done every kind of part
of marketing. To answer your question, radio now it's digital
mostly with social We're big on Insta and TikTok and
some Facebook still, but it's interesting how it's changed.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
Okay, I have a question to go back to your brand.
You said your brand is edgy and funny, but how
did you come up with like tell us more about
like your brending and how did you come up with
that idea? Well, okay, because you guys are from a
banker world, right, so I'm just like, I want to
get into your brand.
Speaker 5 (09:27):
Well, we hired a marketing team, so I don't want
to take credit for this super great work that our
market team has done over the years, but I do
have something that you might be interested in. During that time,
it seemed like the only advertising for animal welfare was
super sad. So let's show the damage Doggie or the
(09:49):
damage Kitty. And it was Sarah McLaughlin the song in
the Arms of Angels, I believe it was, And we
always kind of looked back to that and we're like,
you know, people, Oh no, I think that makes people
turn away because they're like, man, that is too depressing
and too big of a problem for me to fix.
So we're like, all right, how do we engage well,
(10:10):
we engage with humor. And you gotta admit, when you're
talking about spee neuter as your thing, I mean start
thinking we're talking body parts and girls. I mean that's
how it all. It got edgy and funny right away.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
You know, I used to work in animal welfare as
well as the pr manager. And you hit the nail
on the head that the sad depressing promotion does it
work as well as humor? And so I know some
rescues promote like neoter parties and they have funny, super
(10:47):
cute little t shirts that say neoter is cuter?
Speaker 5 (10:51):
Did you guys see for Valentine's Day?
Speaker 4 (10:53):
So I'll rescue saying neuter you X, like, did you
donate ten dollars? We'll name the cat after your ex
and we'll cut them.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
I thought that was funny.
Speaker 5 (11:05):
That is very funny. That's the best talking about neutering.
We're a bunch of women, sorry Mark, talking about neutering funny,
shark is You know, my boy is right here right now.
He's cool, he's neutered. But I don't know if he
thought it was funny at them.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
Oh my gosh, we need to take a quick break
and we're going to be right back with Devra.
Speaker 6 (11:32):
You know the expression cats have nine lives, Well, what
if you can give them one more? But give them ten?
Movement is on a mission to help give cats an
extra life. How with spee and neoter, spain or neutering
your cat helps them live a longer, healthier life and
it helps control free rolling cat populations too. Learn more
(11:56):
about the benefits of spee and neoter and meet Scooter,
the neutered cat at give them ten dot org. That's
give them t e n dot org.
Speaker 8 (12:09):
Let's talk pets on Petlife Radio dot.
Speaker 7 (12:12):
Com, and we're back with Debrackcribbs.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
He's going to tell us more about Scooter than neuter
cat Gooter.
Speaker 5 (12:30):
He's Scooter, He's neutered. He's the coolest carat in town.
Hip spectacles, no testicles. Yeah, I won't sing the song,
but we have a jingle that's very well known in
the Cincinnati area. He's our cat mascot. He's our spokescat,
our cat spokesperson, and as I said, Scoar's actually pretty
(12:50):
well known, so we've done a good job of creating
brand awareness. Yeah, he does speak for us and any
odds that we run that are digit all or on
the TV adds anything, Scooter generally pops in. Maybe it's
the beginning, maybe it's the end. Sometimes it's all about Scooter.
But yeah, he's our spokescat and he's an orange tabby
(13:14):
like Franklin.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Yes, Franklin, my kitty. He's underneath my feet right now.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Debra, can you send us the link so everybody can
see the jingle and marcle put it on the show
page so everybody can take a look.
Speaker 5 (13:29):
Sure of course. I mean I don't mind saying our
Another cleverness of our campaign. We call our campaign give
them ten cats have nine lives, give them ten. So
our website is give them ten dot org. And if
you type in Scooter the neoter, just start it on YouTube.
(13:49):
All the videos pop up. But my team will absolutely
send you links.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Oh that's so cool.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
I think it was very smart to have a mascot,
like to use Scooter as a mascot, because it's an
element that keeps coming back and so people can refer to.
Speaker 5 (14:06):
So it's really well branded.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
And I have to like, yeah, say good job on
that because people can recognize Scooter and know that it's
your campaign and Scooter for Prison Stanuter Cats. So yeah,
the fact that it keeps coming back is like the
stability in the brand, So that's really good.
Speaker 5 (14:22):
Yeah. Yeah, but again we have professionals doing it, and
I will mention we have Marmalade she just got Spade
and she's Scooter's girlfriend, and No Ball's Paul is Scooter's
best friends. I mean, our media, our social media is
fun if you have any interest in cats. But this
is a good point, you guys. So we have a
(14:44):
lot of money at our disposal, no doubt about it.
And we've hired professionals to work with us with our
vision to do all of this, including PR. So there's
all this work that we're doing, but there's also a
PR element. I have been on TV a number of
times with Scooter. We have a giant Scooter costume that
some poor intern has to wear. It's very hot, I'm told,
(15:06):
and he or she Scooter stands behind me on TV
with some regularity. You know, we're invited to come on
morning shows and stuff like that, which is fun. But
we've got a marketing team to do this, and as
you said at the beginning, not everybody has that right.
So what we decided to do we want Scooter to
(15:26):
live in every city across the land because Scooter has
a really important message to give everyone. Well, we can't
go on TV, radio or social all around the country.
That's just too much for us to do. But what
we have started doing in the last year or so
is offering licensing agreements for almost nothing. We have to
(15:49):
charge something, but it's very small. If you qualify. If
you are a rescue, if you are a five oh
one C three, if you are a charity, you are
a rescue, you are a municipal s A. If you're
in this world and you would like to use any
of our marketing that includes billboards, social, ur TV ads,
(16:10):
any of it, we will license it to groups. And
we've done more than a handful right now. Like we're
in somewhere in Georgia, Louisiana, Kawhi, there's something oh Iowa.
So we're kind of making our way around. When I
go speaking at conferences, I talk about this and we
generally get a bunch of inquiries after that. And we're
(16:33):
not trying to make money. We have already spent money
and continue to spend money developing these really great campaigns.
But we're willing to give it to anybody who qualifies,
and qualifying you have to be basically a legit organization
with some infrastructure and ability to manage this. But my
(16:54):
team of marketing professionals will even up to a certain point,
be helpful in deploying the advertising strategy. So it's a
really big deal. As you guys know because you work
in this world. You know, marketing campaigns are not cheap.
We've got all the collateral materials, we're willing to offer it.
(17:15):
You just got to be able to do it. As
a shelters, they're really who we're after, but we're willing
to talk to anybody who qualifies in the qualifications or
on our website as well.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Yeah, it's an animal rescue is hard. I mean there's
so many cat rescues and t in r groups and
even dog rescues that like it's being run by one
or two people, right, and they're a.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Tiny group, and you know, God bless.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
All these people for doing this, But it's so hard
to do marketing and rescue a cat or dog or hamster.
And the same thing goes for our for profit clients
who are listening to this. To the pet store owner
who is doing everything there stocking shelves. They're paying the bills,
they're the hr and they got to find a way
(18:05):
to get people in the store right to pay all
their employees.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
And so the struggle is real.
Speaker 5 (18:12):
I absolutely understand that, and I love that you combine
the for profit business owners, especially small business owners. They
wear every cat, these small rescues and sometimes a small
municipal shelter. These people, they wear every hat. What I
challenge all of us to kind of again culture shift
(18:33):
here too, and change the paradigm a little bit, change
the way we think about this. Yes, it's very important
to rescue these cats. I want them rescued. Perhaps if
the small groups would form coalitions, band together and become
bigger groups, they would have some efficiencies and power. Now,
I find that ego often gets involved in that, and
(18:57):
that's why I'm challenging. I know you want to do
good work work, but if you want to do even
better work, you have to have some power. So, as
I've looked at this as a business person, every area
in the United States has some kind of municipal shelter.
Now they don't always have cat resources, it just depends,
(19:17):
but there's a municipal shelter generally in most cities across
the United States. And let's say, like you say, there
are a bunch of little little rescues doing really good work,
doing the work of angels, no doubt, wouldn't it be
great if those rescues collaborated with the municipal shelters, because
that's actually where the killing is happening. That lot of
(19:39):
release rates not a joke. That happens in municipal shelter
sometimes because they're poorly managed, but sometimes because they just
got too many animals and they can't handle it. Help them.
They're the ones doing the thing that none of us wants.
So help them, and if they would collaborate and band together,
they perhaps would be big enough for organizations then to
(20:01):
have a little bit more bandwidth so that they can
do things like marketing and ask the public for help differently.
So that's my soapbox, for sure.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
I do appreciate that at the minute. I've seen that
movement on social media a lot that like small rescues
are trying to help each other and support each other,
which I think wasn't the case a couple of years ago.
But I've seen it as well, you know, with saving
lives I've seen a lot of people like sharing our
stories and supporting us, and we're trying to support them
in return. And yeah, I feel like there's been a
(20:31):
little shift in rescue where people understand that if we
don't work all together, we're not going to be able
to make it. We all need to support each other
and help each other out. So yeah, I've been liking this.
Speaker 5 (20:42):
Well, I like that too. Each rescue they can say
they're no killed because they only take who they want,
but a viscible shelter they have to take everybody, so again,
they're the ones that need help.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
I want to point that, Debra, you just that's one
of my The no kill term is a marketing term.
So I used to work at a open admission shelter
and they would constantly get crucified. But you know what,
who's gonna take that three legged dog found on the
freeway at two o'clock in the morning on a Saturday,
Right It's the municipal shelters that do, and they get
(21:20):
an unfair wrap. Now Here in Minnesota where I am,
it's a little different. There's a pretty good job of collaboration.
The small rescues take the animals that don't thrive in shelter,
and then the really highly adoptable ones it go quickly.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
But you know it's a little different here.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
But I urge people and even like the Kitten Lady
has a YouTube video on why you shouldn't persecute and
call people who work at open admission shelters killers, because
I was actually one of those people and I was
constantly called that, and I think I'm a very compassionate person,
especially towards cats, right, And they would just say, oh,
(22:01):
you're just going to kill that dog.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no no.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
And it's a matter of resources, right, are you going
to put in twenty five thousand dollars into that one
elderly dog or are you going to help five hundred kittens?
Speaker 5 (22:14):
Right?
Speaker 2 (22:14):
It's choices and money is such an issue, which.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
Is why everybody needs to support their favorite rescue or shelter.
And so now I'm getting on my soapbox, but I'm
going to turn it back to Deborah because she's the guest.
Speaker 5 (22:27):
Well, but I join, I joined that soapbox, and I
don't think it's fair when a municipal shelter. First of all,
there are very humane reasons to euthanize an animal. We
all know that. So when we look at our metrics,
if we're in the high ninety percentile for library lease rate,
we've succeeded. Because there are in the middle of the
(22:48):
night dogs that have been hit by a car and
there's just not a good way to save them. We
all acknowledge that. And I would say that most of
the small percentage of cats that don't make it are neonate,
So we super young babies, and frankly, another soapbox is
don't kittennap don't separate as we head into kitten season
(23:10):
in most of the country, don't separate kittens from their mama.
They will be more healthy if they're with their mama.
Help mama, feed mama, she'll take care of the kittens,
and then you go get everybody fixed. That's how we
take care of this problem. But I agree with you,
and I did say our brand is edgy and humorous,
(23:32):
so you will hear me occasionally use the word kill.
And I admit that I've been told by some of
our teams stop that it's not cool anymore. It's not
the old dog new trick. It's that I do believe
sometimes harsh language gets attention. But I very much agree
with you that the municipal shelters. I'm not gonna I'm
(23:55):
not gonna blame the employees. I may very well though,
guys blame the leadership of Impressible Shelter. It is not
fair in any way to go on social media and
call people who work their killers.
Speaker 8 (24:08):
That's ridiculous.
Speaker 5 (24:09):
Help that on a name.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
Agree, Yeah, we need to take a quick break.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
And when we come back, we're going to talk to
Deborah again.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Oh sure, it's all fun and games until someone ends
up in a cone. That's right. We are animals, deal
with it. Headline Radio, Live, Life Unleashed, Let's.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Talk past it, Let's past talk about life radio, Headline Radio.
Speaker 8 (24:34):
At light Radio dot com.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
So, Deborrah, you've been campaigning for cat overpopulation and you know,
pushing people to neuter community cats and their own cats.
But I know that you've also been working on other
campaign like double the Love, where you promote the benefit
so of getting a cat for your cat. Can we
hear a bit about that, because I love that.
Speaker 5 (25:05):
Sure, that's exactly right. You know, when we've gotten to
the point in a lot of our advertising region where
our live release rates are really good. I realize around
the country that there's a lot of stress on shelters.
Right now, our area, the live release rates are really good,
So we have tried to expand our message a little bit.
(25:26):
And as we're heading into kitten season, you know, which
is the hardest time for shelters. When you're talking about cats,
we're telling the story of get a cat for your cat,
because there really are everybody whose cat person knows this
right that generally not always, certainly not in my household
right now, I literally have a baby gait because we
(25:47):
do not get along in our household. But don't take
that as what will normally happen. If you have the
place for a kitten in your home, take two kittens.
They'll play with each other, they'll groom each other, they'll
keep each other busy. They'll love you just as much,
but they'll love each other. It's just probably better for
(26:09):
the household or in shelters. There's a thing called bonded
pears where there are two cats that for whatever reason,
maybe they came from a long time home where their
person died, and they've lived together for ten years, and
the shelter doesn't want to separate them. These are great
cats to bring into your life. They're already friends. They
(26:30):
love each other, they help each other. But it makes
the life of the humans better, I think when there
are two cats. So yes, we are actively promoting. That's
an adoption tactic. We also talk about fostering the foster
families for shelters are truly the angels. But we'll always
go back to spaniarder. There's something about that low hanging
(26:53):
fruit that we really like.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
Yeah, speaking of double the love, So I have seen
more and more rescues require you actually to adopt too.
So when I got my guy Franklin, and I got
him because I wanted an adventure cat, I also had
to take his sister, not because they were a bonded pair,
but they require two cats to be the same age,
(27:16):
and I can attest to that, like having two is
so much easier than one, because Franklin would be he's
nuts and he would be attacking me instead of you know,
he would want to pounce me instead of his sister.
So I can attest to that. Everybody get two or
four or six kittens.
Speaker 5 (27:33):
No question they It really is better for the household.
It really truly is so. Yeah, that's our current message
in our social.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
Can I ask you another question, speaking since you're a
banker as well. A lot of people leave their estates
to animal welfare organizations. And I've seen this, and there's
a big bank here that left a sizeable donation to
one of the big groups here which really does focuses
(28:05):
more on dogs than cats. And the person who passed
away was a cat person and specifically asked it to
go to cats, but the person that managed the estate
gave it to a more dog centric it was more
well known, it's very resourced. And so how does that
work in banks?
Speaker 2 (28:25):
And how can.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Somebody assure that their estate is going to an animal
welfare group that is what they're what they want it
to go for.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Does that make sense?
Speaker 5 (28:37):
Yeah? I mean, obviously I don't know the specifics of this,
and disclaimer, I'm not a lawyer, and you're definitely talking
about a legal thing. But I've certainly been involved in
these situations, and I would say that it comes down
to the paperwork when you do your estate planning, whether
you set up a private foundation or something called a
donor advice fund, which is where you set up a
(28:58):
fund during your life and ablish a pattern of giving
to whatever organizations you really like, which is a good
way to avoid what you just said, because you establish
a lifetime of history. Well, I always did the cat thing.
You can't just do the dog thing after I die,
or as probably as I'm sure is more common to
have an actual a person die and a will or
(29:19):
trust say I want a particular gift to go to
a particular kind of group. Okay. One way to avoid
what happened is to actually name the group. Obviously, the
issue there is that if that group doesn't exist anymore,
it's going to be up to the trustee or the
executor to try to find an alternative. My guess is
(29:40):
that the cat groups maybe weren't as resource. That's my
guess that the execs trustee thought it might not be
money well used that they have to justify if called
upon their decision. So that's just my guess. But you
can name a group, okay.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Yeah. In this case, the person left two point five
million dollars and she named a small cat rescue group.
And actually this cat rescue group is really well and
it was supposed to be designated for TNR, and this
lady passed away and the money ended up going to
a big organization that you know, focuses more on dogs,
(30:25):
and I you know, it might have gone to help
spay neuter cats, which is what might have happened. But yeah,
and so I was just wondering about that and how
you can be really specific in leaving your legacy to
the right group. And banks are critical in this, and
I'm I'm always wondering like, how do bankers know, Like
(30:47):
are they just they're solely just looking at numbers?
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Am I right?
Speaker 1 (30:51):
No?
Speaker 5 (30:52):
I mean again, I don't know this situation, but yes,
and no, it is their fiduciary duty. If a bank
was as a minder standing, an executor, or a trustee
of this estate, it is their fiduciary duty under the
law to follow the wishes of the grand tour or
the benefactor. And if they weren't against very specific instructions,
(31:15):
then they must have. If this was a bank, I
know banks, they must have had a very strong reason that.
Believe me, internal was the conversation of many meetings and
many legal documents to say why they did it. And
my guess is, if there's a rescue that's literally raising
(31:36):
fifty thousand dollars a year or less, and they're given
two point five million as a fiduciary, And frankly, in
my banks, they probably come ask me. Because I know
this world, I'd have a hard time myself signing off
on that.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Really interesting.
Speaker 5 (31:54):
I have my doubts and I'm picturing little I'm literally
picturing some that I know. They wouldn't know how to
spend two point five million dollars sustainably or effectively in
my opinion, some of the ones I'm thinking of. But
my guess is they did do some homework. I'm just
guessing banks really do have to follow whatever the words are. Huh,
(32:17):
this is interesting how to reason against it? And I
certainly would what you just said, but I don't know guessing.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
Well, this has just been so enlightening, don't you think, Alex,
Like Deborah, you're amazing what you're doing.
Speaker 5 (32:34):
Yeah, you really really are. Thank you. It's an honor
and a privilege to speak to you and to do
the work that I get to do.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Well.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
In closing, do you have anything you'd like to say?
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Where can people reach you? How can they.
Speaker 5 (32:49):
Help give them? Tens dot org it's a great place
to start all of our stuff starts on Give Them
ten dot org. Please go take a look.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
All right, Well, thank you so much, so much. That
is a wrap for this show. We're so excited to
be doing this for all of you out there who
are making life better for animals, just like Debra.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Do you have a question you want us to answer,
We'll reach.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
Out to us on Instagram or Facebook under Whisker Media
and we're going to try to answer it in a
future podcast episode. So, as we always say, bark loud
and per smart.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
See you later, everyone.
Speaker 8 (33:27):
Let's Talk Pets every week on demand only on petlifradios
dot com
Hey LIVEABO is pet Life Radio. Let's talk pets.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Welcome to the Whisker Report.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
We're a new podcast dedicated to helping anyone in the
pet industry.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Whether you're an animal welfare or a for profit pet company,
get some pr and buzz for your nonprofit or business.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Hello everyone, I'm Mary Tam one of the hosts of
the show, along with my co host alexand Ricard, a
cat rescuer and public relations professional who hails from France
but now lives in the lovely.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
City of Vancouver. Voner Alex on, I.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
Hope you guys are having a wonderful day.
Speaker 5 (00:48):
It's the first day of spring.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Today doesn't feel like it's in Vancouver, but it's okay. Hey, Mark,
we're also Yeah, we'll here with our producer Mark Winter
pet Life, who gets us to you each and every
week him work.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
How are you?
Speaker 6 (01:04):
I'm good? And it's uh well, actually it's spring here
all year long in South Florida, so it is the
first day of spring, but no change here.
Speaker 5 (01:13):
Yeah, is it the.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
Day you're going to clean all of your closet? And like,
you know, what do you need to do in spring?
I think you need to get.
Speaker 6 (01:18):
Rid of the I'm getting ready to go to Global
That's what we do in Global pet Expo.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
That's already very busy.
Speaker 6 (01:26):
Yes, Mary, any fun thing's going to be.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
There, then yes, Oh my goodness. So I'm excited to
see Mark.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
I get to see Mark like once a year at
Global pet Expo, which is it is one of the
biggest pet product trade shows in the world. This one
is the biggest one that attracts an international crowd.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
It's actually Super Zoo is the other.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Big one, but this one has an international crowd, which
is why it's called Global Pet Expo.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
We have some fabulous clients.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Their boss nation Jaffie's Bone Broth, and the guy who
runs Jaffie's makes it all in his kitchen, like every
single bat she's like constantly cooking. And then the other
super fun thing is pet cakes, the birthday cake for
cat and dogs, super healthy product. She's having her fifteenth
(02:18):
birthday party there. There's going to be a party every day.
Cupcakes for humans and birthday cake for all the cats
and dogs who are there. And then I have two
presentations that I'm giving on PR So I'm looking forward
to this and looking forward to hanging out with everybody
like Mark and his wife Michelle and all the super
(02:40):
fun people that we only get to see once a year,
you know.
Speaker 7 (02:44):
So.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
But anyways, we're so honored to be part of Mark's
Pet Life Radio network.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
And what we want to tell you is that you
can do pr for yourself.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Of course, we'd love it if you hired us, but
we just know that is not, you know, financially possible
for a lot of startups and small rescues. So Alex,
Mark and I started this podcast to help you each
and every week.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
And today we're super lucky to have Deborah Crips from
the Give Them ten movement. Deborah is the mom of
the famous Scooter, the neuter cat, who has inspired thousands
and thousands of people to adopt and to sterilize cats. Deborah,
thank you so much for joining us. We feel very
grateful that you hear we see.
Speaker 5 (03:31):
Thank you, and I'm happy to be here too.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Love that little French.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
I was so excited to hear more about you, Deborah,
and I would like to start by asking you how
did you get involved in the cat world.
Speaker 5 (03:44):
Well that's a fun question, thank you. So by day
I'm a banker. I manage money for wealthy people, and
one of my clients died unexpectedly left the foundation in
my care along with my bank, and I manage this
foundation for the bank and it's the privilege and it's sizable.
(04:07):
And so imagine a bunch of bankers who do maths
and logic things getting involved in animal welfare in Cincinnati,
which is where we live. So that's where we started,
and we're like, okay, what are we doing here? Well,
the foundation is for the benefit of cats in Cincinnati.
That's super specific, and it's way too much money to
(04:29):
actually spend on that one thing, honestly, But because we're
math people and we're fiduciaries, we want to spend the
money wisely. So we started looking at, Okay, what's the
problem here. The problem is cats are being killed in shelters.
That affects cat welfare. We could buy every cat in
Cincinnati a bed and a phone, but that's really not
(04:52):
going to help the problem, is it. No, So I
like to say that's what started my team and I
and I love that you guys are trying about marketing
because you know, something else we decided way back when,
about a decade ago, is that we do want to
help our local partners with some infrastructure funding for spain
(05:15):
Hooter because that's the thing that we really think, well
we said it was the low hanging fruit. I like
the pun yit, but we think it's the low hanging
fruit the thing that we can make an impact on.
So that's sort of where we started. But an important
part of the work that we do is marketing, talking
(05:35):
to the public, because if you don't talk to the
public and help create a culture shift in society the
way people view cats, we're just going to chase our
tails and not get anywhere. So that's kind of the beginning.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
And you I think I've heard you mentioning a culture shift.
Could you tell me more about that, because I know
you called it like a cat culture shift.
Speaker 5 (05:58):
Well, we were really trying to be anthropologists. I guess
why are cats being killed in shelters? Well, there are
too many of them? Why are there too many of them?
We could go down a rabbit hole and there are
many reasons, but why are there too many of them?
Because the public hasn't really adopted spain Nooter for what
we call community cats, outdoor cats that are thriving and
(06:21):
happy for whatever reason, And we really wanted to use
the power of marketing talking to the public to shift
the public's perception about whether having cats outside is a
good or bad thing. We think that a healthy cat
living well outside and cared for is fine and I
(06:42):
would argue my team and I would argue better than
living in a shelter. So so yeah, we have a
really extensive marketing campaign that we've been doing for about
a decade talking to the public, and the way we
measure success is the live release rate in the shelf
that we work with. That's the percentage of cats that
(07:03):
leave alive. So we really do have a concrete way
of saying yep, we've succeeded. And interestingly, when we started
our work about a decade ago, the live release rate
in Cincinnati was about thirty some percent, but it was
really bad data. It was probably worse, and we're in
the hot ninety percentile. Now we're like ninety six percent
(07:26):
right now, So we're really proud of that.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
That's amazing. I can't believe it.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
So can you give us not to pry into like
getting into the nitty gritty, but tell us about your
marketing campaign. Tell us what are the elements that you're
using to, you know, get the message out about TNR.
Speaker 5 (07:47):
Well, I'm not a marketing professional, but I've been involved
in this a lot, so i'll speak to it just
from my perspective. We wanted, I hate this sounds like
a cliche, but we wanted to educate the public. And
I think the first thing you got to do is
build a brand for yourself. And our brand is kind
of edgy, funny. So once you have your brand, whatever
(08:11):
it may be, then there are all the outlets you
can use to talk to the public. And I think
it's interesting that a decade ago, the thing that probably
was the most impactful was our TV ads, which we
still run and are really popular, and I mean they're
very funny. But now everything is really pivoted to social,
(08:33):
which I'm sure you guys know. So we still do
some filming, but not only social but TikTok, right, So
that's reels, and the reels should not be professionally created.
The reels should be done on an iPhone vertically by
non professionals and look like that. So it's really interesting
(08:53):
how it's morphed. But we've done every kind of part
of marketing. To answer your question, radio now it's digital
mostly with social We're big on Insta and TikTok and
some Facebook still, but it's interesting how it's changed.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
Okay, I have a question to go back to your brand.
You said your brand is edgy and funny, but how
did you come up with like tell us more about
like your brending and how did you come up with
that idea? Well, okay, because you guys are from a
banker world, right, so I'm just like, I want to
get into your brand.
Speaker 5 (09:27):
Well, we hired a marketing team, so I don't want
to take credit for this super great work that our
market team has done over the years, but I do
have something that you might be interested in. During that time,
it seemed like the only advertising for animal welfare was
super sad. So let's show the damage Doggie or the
(09:49):
damage Kitty. And it was Sarah McLaughlin the song in
the Arms of Angels, I believe it was, And we
always kind of looked back to that and we're like,
you know, people, Oh no, I think that makes people
turn away because they're like, man, that is too depressing
and too big of a problem for me to fix.
So we're like, all right, how do we engage well,
(10:10):
we engage with humor. And you gotta admit, when you're
talking about spee neuter as your thing, I mean start
thinking we're talking body parts and girls. I mean that's
how it all. It got edgy and funny right away.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
You know, I used to work in animal welfare as
well as the pr manager. And you hit the nail
on the head that the sad depressing promotion does it
work as well as humor? And so I know some
rescues promote like neoter parties and they have funny, super
(10:47):
cute little t shirts that say neoter is cuter?
Speaker 5 (10:51):
Did you guys see for Valentine's Day?
Speaker 4 (10:53):
So I'll rescue saying neuter you X, like, did you
donate ten dollars? We'll name the cat after your ex
and we'll cut them.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
I thought that was funny.
Speaker 5 (11:05):
That is very funny. That's the best talking about neutering.
We're a bunch of women, sorry Mark, talking about neutering funny,
shark is You know, my boy is right here right now.
He's cool, he's neutered. But I don't know if he
thought it was funny at them.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
Oh my gosh, we need to take a quick break
and we're going to be right back with Devra.
Speaker 6 (11:32):
You know the expression cats have nine lives, Well, what
if you can give them one more? But give them ten?
Movement is on a mission to help give cats an
extra life. How with spee and neoter, spain or neutering
your cat helps them live a longer, healthier life and
it helps control free rolling cat populations too. Learn more
(11:56):
about the benefits of spee and neoter and meet Scooter,
the neutered cat at give them ten dot org. That's
give them t e n dot org.
Speaker 8 (12:09):
Let's talk pets on Petlife Radio dot.
Speaker 7 (12:12):
Com, and we're back with Debrackcribbs.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
He's going to tell us more about Scooter than neuter
cat Gooter.
Speaker 5 (12:30):
He's Scooter, He's neutered. He's the coolest carat in town.
Hip spectacles, no testicles. Yeah, I won't sing the song,
but we have a jingle that's very well known in
the Cincinnati area. He's our cat mascot. He's our spokescat,
our cat spokesperson, and as I said, Scoar's actually pretty
(12:50):
well known, so we've done a good job of creating
brand awareness. Yeah, he does speak for us and any
odds that we run that are digit all or on
the TV adds anything, Scooter generally pops in. Maybe it's
the beginning, maybe it's the end. Sometimes it's all about Scooter.
But yeah, he's our spokescat and he's an orange tabby
(13:14):
like Franklin.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Yes, Franklin, my kitty. He's underneath my feet right now.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Debra, can you send us the link so everybody can
see the jingle and marcle put it on the show
page so everybody can take a look.
Speaker 5 (13:29):
Sure of course. I mean I don't mind saying our
Another cleverness of our campaign. We call our campaign give
them ten cats have nine lives, give them ten. So
our website is give them ten dot org. And if
you type in Scooter the neoter, just start it on YouTube.
(13:49):
All the videos pop up. But my team will absolutely
send you links.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Oh that's so cool.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
I think it was very smart to have a mascot,
like to use Scooter as a mascot, because it's an
element that keeps coming back and so people can refer to.
Speaker 5 (14:06):
So it's really well branded.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
And I have to like, yeah, say good job on
that because people can recognize Scooter and know that it's
your campaign and Scooter for Prison Stanuter Cats. So yeah,
the fact that it keeps coming back is like the
stability in the brand, So that's really good.
Speaker 5 (14:22):
Yeah. Yeah, but again we have professionals doing it, and
I will mention we have Marmalade she just got Spade
and she's Scooter's girlfriend, and No Ball's Paul is Scooter's
best friends. I mean, our media, our social media is
fun if you have any interest in cats. But this
is a good point, you guys. So we have a
(14:44):
lot of money at our disposal, no doubt about it.
And we've hired professionals to work with us with our
vision to do all of this, including PR. So there's
all this work that we're doing, but there's also a
PR element. I have been on TV a number of
times with Scooter. We have a giant Scooter costume that
some poor intern has to wear. It's very hot, I'm told,
(15:06):
and he or she Scooter stands behind me on TV
with some regularity. You know, we're invited to come on
morning shows and stuff like that, which is fun. But
we've got a marketing team to do this, and as
you said at the beginning, not everybody has that right.
So what we decided to do we want Scooter to
(15:26):
live in every city across the land because Scooter has
a really important message to give everyone. Well, we can't
go on TV, radio or social all around the country.
That's just too much for us to do. But what
we have started doing in the last year or so
is offering licensing agreements for almost nothing. We have to
(15:49):
charge something, but it's very small. If you qualify. If
you are a rescue, if you are a five oh
one C three, if you are a charity, you are
a rescue, you are a municipal s A. If you're
in this world and you would like to use any
of our marketing that includes billboards, social, ur TV ads,
(16:10):
any of it, we will license it to groups. And
we've done more than a handful right now. Like we're
in somewhere in Georgia, Louisiana, Kawhi, there's something oh Iowa.
So we're kind of making our way around. When I
go speaking at conferences, I talk about this and we
generally get a bunch of inquiries after that. And we're
(16:33):
not trying to make money. We have already spent money
and continue to spend money developing these really great campaigns.
But we're willing to give it to anybody who qualifies,
and qualifying you have to be basically a legit organization
with some infrastructure and ability to manage this. But my
(16:54):
team of marketing professionals will even up to a certain point,
be helpful in deploying the advertising strategy. So it's a
really big deal. As you guys know because you work
in this world. You know, marketing campaigns are not cheap.
We've got all the collateral materials, we're willing to offer it.
(17:15):
You just got to be able to do it. As
a shelters, they're really who we're after, but we're willing
to talk to anybody who qualifies in the qualifications or
on our website as well.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Yeah, it's an animal rescue is hard. I mean there's
so many cat rescues and t in r groups and
even dog rescues that like it's being run by one
or two people, right, and they're a.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Tiny group, and you know, God bless.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
All these people for doing this, But it's so hard
to do marketing and rescue a cat or dog or hamster.
And the same thing goes for our for profit clients
who are listening to this. To the pet store owner
who is doing everything there stocking shelves. They're paying the bills,
they're the hr and they got to find a way
(18:05):
to get people in the store right to pay all
their employees.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
And so the struggle is real.
Speaker 5 (18:12):
I absolutely understand that, and I love that you combine
the for profit business owners, especially small business owners. They
wear every cat, these small rescues and sometimes a small
municipal shelter. These people, they wear every hat. What I
challenge all of us to kind of again culture shift
(18:33):
here too, and change the paradigm a little bit, change
the way we think about this. Yes, it's very important
to rescue these cats. I want them rescued. Perhaps if
the small groups would form coalitions, band together and become
bigger groups, they would have some efficiencies and power. Now,
I find that ego often gets involved in that, and
(18:57):
that's why I'm challenging. I know you want to do
good work work, but if you want to do even
better work, you have to have some power. So, as
I've looked at this as a business person, every area
in the United States has some kind of municipal shelter.
Now they don't always have cat resources, it just depends,
(19:17):
but there's a municipal shelter generally in most cities across
the United States. And let's say, like you say, there
are a bunch of little little rescues doing really good work,
doing the work of angels, no doubt, wouldn't it be
great if those rescues collaborated with the municipal shelters, because
that's actually where the killing is happening. That lot of
(19:39):
release rates not a joke. That happens in municipal shelter
sometimes because they're poorly managed, but sometimes because they just
got too many animals and they can't handle it. Help them.
They're the ones doing the thing that none of us wants.
So help them, and if they would collaborate and band together,
they perhaps would be big enough for organizations then to
(20:01):
have a little bit more bandwidth so that they can
do things like marketing and ask the public for help differently.
So that's my soapbox, for sure.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
I do appreciate that at the minute. I've seen that
movement on social media a lot that like small rescues
are trying to help each other and support each other,
which I think wasn't the case a couple of years ago.
But I've seen it as well, you know, with saving
lives I've seen a lot of people like sharing our
stories and supporting us, and we're trying to support them
in return. And yeah, I feel like there's been a
(20:31):
little shift in rescue where people understand that if we
don't work all together, we're not going to be able
to make it. We all need to support each other
and help each other out. So yeah, I've been liking this.
Speaker 5 (20:42):
Well, I like that too. Each rescue they can say
they're no killed because they only take who they want,
but a viscible shelter they have to take everybody, so again,
they're the ones that need help.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
I want to point that, Debra, you just that's one
of my The no kill term is a marketing term.
So I used to work at a open admission shelter
and they would constantly get crucified. But you know what,
who's gonna take that three legged dog found on the
freeway at two o'clock in the morning on a Saturday,
Right It's the municipal shelters that do, and they get
(21:20):
an unfair wrap. Now Here in Minnesota where I am,
it's a little different. There's a pretty good job of collaboration.
The small rescues take the animals that don't thrive in shelter,
and then the really highly adoptable ones it go quickly.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
But you know it's a little different here.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
But I urge people and even like the Kitten Lady
has a YouTube video on why you shouldn't persecute and
call people who work at open admission shelters killers, because
I was actually one of those people and I was
constantly called that, and I think I'm a very compassionate person,
especially towards cats, right, And they would just say, oh,
(22:01):
you're just going to kill that dog.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no no.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
And it's a matter of resources, right, are you going
to put in twenty five thousand dollars into that one
elderly dog or are you going to help five hundred kittens?
Speaker 5 (22:14):
Right?
Speaker 2 (22:14):
It's choices and money is such an issue, which.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
Is why everybody needs to support their favorite rescue or shelter.
And so now I'm getting on my soapbox, but I'm
going to turn it back to Deborah because she's the guest.
Speaker 5 (22:27):
Well, but I join, I joined that soapbox, and I
don't think it's fair when a municipal shelter. First of all,
there are very humane reasons to euthanize an animal. We
all know that. So when we look at our metrics,
if we're in the high ninety percentile for library lease rate,
we've succeeded. Because there are in the middle of the
(22:48):
night dogs that have been hit by a car and
there's just not a good way to save them. We
all acknowledge that. And I would say that most of
the small percentage of cats that don't make it are neonate,
So we super young babies, and frankly, another soapbox is
don't kittennap don't separate as we head into kitten season
(23:10):
in most of the country, don't separate kittens from their mama.
They will be more healthy if they're with their mama.
Help mama, feed mama, she'll take care of the kittens,
and then you go get everybody fixed. That's how we
take care of this problem. But I agree with you,
and I did say our brand is edgy and humorous,
(23:32):
so you will hear me occasionally use the word kill.
And I admit that I've been told by some of
our teams stop that it's not cool anymore. It's not
the old dog new trick. It's that I do believe
sometimes harsh language gets attention. But I very much agree
with you that the municipal shelters. I'm not gonna I'm
(23:55):
not gonna blame the employees. I may very well though,
guys blame the leadership of Impressible Shelter. It is not
fair in any way to go on social media and
call people who work their killers.
Speaker 8 (24:08):
That's ridiculous.
Speaker 5 (24:09):
Help that on a name.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
Agree, Yeah, we need to take a quick break.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
And when we come back, we're going to talk to
Deborah again.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Oh sure, it's all fun and games until someone ends
up in a cone. That's right. We are animals, deal
with it. Headline Radio, Live, Life Unleashed, Let's.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Talk past it, Let's past talk about life radio, Headline Radio.
Speaker 8 (24:34):
At light Radio dot com.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
So, Deborrah, you've been campaigning for cat overpopulation and you know,
pushing people to neuter community cats and their own cats.
But I know that you've also been working on other
campaign like double the Love, where you promote the benefit
so of getting a cat for your cat. Can we
hear a bit about that, because I love that.
Speaker 5 (25:05):
Sure, that's exactly right. You know, when we've gotten to
the point in a lot of our advertising region where
our live release rates are really good. I realize around
the country that there's a lot of stress on shelters.
Right now, our area, the live release rates are really good,
So we have tried to expand our message a little bit.
(25:26):
And as we're heading into kitten season, you know, which
is the hardest time for shelters. When you're talking about cats,
we're telling the story of get a cat for your cat,
because there really are everybody whose cat person knows this
right that generally not always, certainly not in my household
right now, I literally have a baby gait because we
(25:47):
do not get along in our household. But don't take
that as what will normally happen. If you have the
place for a kitten in your home, take two kittens.
They'll play with each other, they'll groom each other, they'll
keep each other busy. They'll love you just as much,
but they'll love each other. It's just probably better for
(26:09):
the household or in shelters. There's a thing called bonded
pears where there are two cats that for whatever reason,
maybe they came from a long time home where their
person died, and they've lived together for ten years, and
the shelter doesn't want to separate them. These are great
cats to bring into your life. They're already friends. They
(26:30):
love each other, they help each other. But it makes
the life of the humans better, I think when there
are two cats. So yes, we are actively promoting. That's
an adoption tactic. We also talk about fostering the foster
families for shelters are truly the angels. But we'll always
go back to spaniarder. There's something about that low hanging
(26:53):
fruit that we really like.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
Yeah, speaking of double the love, So I have seen
more and more rescues require you actually to adopt too.
So when I got my guy Franklin, and I got
him because I wanted an adventure cat, I also had
to take his sister, not because they were a bonded pair,
but they require two cats to be the same age,
(27:16):
and I can attest to that, like having two is
so much easier than one, because Franklin would be he's
nuts and he would be attacking me instead of you know,
he would want to pounce me instead of his sister.
So I can attest to that. Everybody get two or
four or six kittens.
Speaker 5 (27:33):
No question they It really is better for the household.
It really truly is so. Yeah, that's our current message
in our social.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
Can I ask you another question, speaking since you're a
banker as well. A lot of people leave their estates
to animal welfare organizations. And I've seen this, and there's
a big bank here that left a sizeable donation to
one of the big groups here which really does focuses
(28:05):
more on dogs than cats. And the person who passed
away was a cat person and specifically asked it to
go to cats, but the person that managed the estate
gave it to a more dog centric it was more
well known, it's very resourced. And so how does that
work in banks?
Speaker 2 (28:25):
And how can.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Somebody assure that their estate is going to an animal
welfare group that is what they're what they want it
to go for.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Does that make sense?
Speaker 5 (28:37):
Yeah? I mean, obviously I don't know the specifics of this,
and disclaimer, I'm not a lawyer, and you're definitely talking
about a legal thing. But I've certainly been involved in
these situations, and I would say that it comes down
to the paperwork when you do your estate planning, whether
you set up a private foundation or something called a
donor advice fund, which is where you set up a
(28:58):
fund during your life and ablish a pattern of giving
to whatever organizations you really like, which is a good
way to avoid what you just said, because you establish
a lifetime of history. Well, I always did the cat thing.
You can't just do the dog thing after I die,
or as probably as I'm sure is more common to
have an actual a person die and a will or
(29:19):
trust say I want a particular gift to go to
a particular kind of group. Okay. One way to avoid
what happened is to actually name the group. Obviously, the
issue there is that if that group doesn't exist anymore,
it's going to be up to the trustee or the
executor to try to find an alternative. My guess is
(29:40):
that the cat groups maybe weren't as resource. That's my
guess that the execs trustee thought it might not be
money well used that they have to justify if called
upon their decision. So that's just my guess. But you
can name a group, okay.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Yeah. In this case, the person left two point five
million dollars and she named a small cat rescue group.
And actually this cat rescue group is really well and
it was supposed to be designated for TNR, and this
lady passed away and the money ended up going to
a big organization that you know, focuses more on dogs,
(30:25):
and I you know, it might have gone to help
spay neuter cats, which is what might have happened. But yeah,
and so I was just wondering about that and how
you can be really specific in leaving your legacy to
the right group. And banks are critical in this, and
I'm I'm always wondering like, how do bankers know, Like
(30:47):
are they just they're solely just looking at numbers?
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Am I right?
Speaker 1 (30:51):
No?
Speaker 5 (30:52):
I mean again, I don't know this situation, but yes,
and no, it is their fiduciary duty. If a bank
was as a minder standing, an executor, or a trustee
of this estate, it is their fiduciary duty under the
law to follow the wishes of the grand tour or
the benefactor. And if they weren't against very specific instructions,
(31:15):
then they must have. If this was a bank, I
know banks, they must have had a very strong reason that.
Believe me, internal was the conversation of many meetings and
many legal documents to say why they did it. And
my guess is, if there's a rescue that's literally raising
(31:36):
fifty thousand dollars a year or less, and they're given
two point five million as a fiduciary, And frankly, in
my banks, they probably come ask me. Because I know
this world, I'd have a hard time myself signing off
on that.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Really interesting.
Speaker 5 (31:54):
I have my doubts and I'm picturing little I'm literally
picturing some that I know. They wouldn't know how to
spend two point five million dollars sustainably or effectively in
my opinion, some of the ones I'm thinking of. But
my guess is they did do some homework. I'm just
guessing banks really do have to follow whatever the words are. Huh,
(32:17):
this is interesting how to reason against it? And I
certainly would what you just said, but I don't know guessing.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
Well, this has just been so enlightening, don't you think, Alex,
Like Deborah, you're amazing what you're doing.
Speaker 5 (32:34):
Yeah, you really really are. Thank you. It's an honor
and a privilege to speak to you and to do
the work that I get to do.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Well.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
In closing, do you have anything you'd like to say?
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Where can people reach you? How can they.
Speaker 5 (32:49):
Help give them? Tens dot org it's a great place
to start all of our stuff starts on Give Them
ten dot org. Please go take a look.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
All right, Well, thank you so much, so much. That
is a wrap for this show. We're so excited to
be doing this for all of you out there who
are making life better for animals, just like Debra.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Do you have a question you want us to answer,
We'll reach.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
Out to us on Instagram or Facebook under Whisker Media
and we're going to try to answer it in a
future podcast episode. So, as we always say, bark loud
and per smart.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
See you later, everyone.
Speaker 8 (33:27):
Let's Talk Pets every week on demand only on petlifradios
dot com
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