June 29, 2024 • 19 mins
Ever wondered what it's like to walk the precarious line between law enforcement and the shadows of secrecy? Join me, Jason Somerville, as I unmask my true identity in the final episode of "Whisper in the Shadows." As a former undercover cop with the Queensland Police Service from 1991 to 2003, I'll share my journey from covert operations to the candid storytelling that birthed this podcast. By recounting my personal struggles and triumphs, I aim to shed light on the psychological toll policing can take, while also offering a glimpse into the future of our podcast, which will evolve into "Behind the Thin Blue Line" to address broader issues within the law enforcement community.
Curious about life beyond the badge? Discover how I transitioned from police work to an entirely new career path, exploring roles as a travel agent, tour guide, and eventually finding success in recruitment. Imagine leading tours through China, Mongolia, Russia, and South America, utilizing skills honed during years of undercover work. This episode highlights the adaptability of policing skills and serves as a beacon of hope for officers seeking new horizons. Your stories matter too, and I encourage listeners to share their experiences and join the conversation at whisperintheshadowspodcast@gmail.com. Together, let's break the silence and support each other in finding fulfillment beyond the uniform.
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If you would like to be involved in a "Whisper In The Shadows" Podcast through talking about your experiences as an current or former Police/Law Enforcement Officer or tell your stories then I'd love to hear from you.
I can be contacted on my socials below -
Email - whisperintheshadowspodcast@gmail.com
Instagram - @whisperintheshadowspodcast
Facebook - Whisper in the Shadows Podcast Page
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello and welcome to my podcast Whisper in the
Shadows the true story of areal-life undercover cop.
I'm Michael Bates and I was apolice officer for 15 years in
one of the country's statepolice forces.
I was also an undercover copfor over two years and all the
episodes of this podcast are mytrue stories of what it's really
like to be an undercover cop.
(00:22):
Rather, I was Michael Bates.
Okay, okay, stop, stop, stopthere.
For the last 20 episodes, youhave been listening to this
introduction about how MichaelBates isn't my real name but was
in fact, the name I used when Iworked as an undercover police
officer.
And if you didn't know that,did you even listen to my
podcast Whisper in the Shadowsthe true story of a real life
(00:44):
undercover cop?
Anyway, if you are listening tothis episode, the very last one
of this series then I'massuming you have been.
So Michael Bates is not my realname.
However, I will reveal my realidentity.
My name is actually JasonSomerville and between 1991 and
2003, I was a police officer inthe Queensland Police Service.
(01:05):
Yes, that's right.
All of these undercover jobswere done in the state of
Queensland.
I was a member of the covertunit between 1995 and 1997, and
this is when these jobs tookplace.
Now obviously, names have beenchanged for both informants and
targets, but Michael Bates was areal identity.
The details of these storiesare, to the best of my
(01:25):
recollection, true and didactually happen the way I have
described them.
I will let you see if you canwork out where the operations
took place now.
You know they were inQueensland.
During my time in the police Iworked in Cairns, working as far
north as Bamaga, which is thepointy bit of Queensland to
Logan where I was working whenthe first drug buy came about,
the pointy bit of Queensland toLogan where I was working when
(01:47):
the first drug buy came about.
After the covert squad I wentto work in the Brisbane City
Station.
Then I was promoted to a seniorconstable in Mount Isa, working
in places like Bedourie andBirdsville, and my last posting
was back in Logan before Ieventually pulled stumps.
When I first thought about doingthis, I had concerns about
being tracked down by people Ihad dealt with if they knew my
real name.
Hence the use of my MichaelBates persona.
(02:08):
But as I went through my time Icame to the conclusion that
most of the people I had dealtwith would be either dead in
prison or not able to walk, letalone hunt me down.
And besides, I'm pretty surecriminals don't listen to true
crime podcasts.
So why am I telling you all andshattering the illusion?
Because it's the illusion thatneeds to be shattered.
(02:29):
It is the silence and secrecyof not talking about what
happens to you as a policeofficer that needs to be
shattered.
I want to bring out into theopen the effect policing has on
the women and men who decide topursue the calling of policing A
very noble calling, right.
Well, to be honest, that's nothow this all started.
Many years ago, after leavingthe police, I was traveling, and
(02:50):
one of the group was a verycreative person.
I told the group some of thestories that I have relayed in
this podcast, as well as some ofthe other antics I got up to as
a copper during many nights ofdrinking on this travel.
That's many nights of drinkingon the travel.
I told stories.
Not many nights of drinking onthis travel.
That's many nights of drinkingon the travel.
I told stories.
Not many nights drinking as acopper.
Anyway, this person suggested Iwrite a book about my time
(03:11):
undercover, as it seemed like aninteresting longer story, so I
started one.
Now, this was beforesmartphones, youtube and Spotify
.
Time went by and the writingpart became less frequent.
One day back here in Australia,I had an epiphany why not turn
it into a movie script?
Now, this was about the timethat the TV show Stingers had
(03:32):
just come out.
Anyway, I had been a bit of athespian in my day, especially
at school, but also during mytime in the police.
I was part of a couple oftheatre and musical groups, so I
pivoted and started writing ascreenplay.
I think in the book I got toabout one chapter being written,
the screenplay probably thefirst act, which was joining the
(03:53):
police story how I became a UCstory.
And then life took over and whenI finally got back to the idea,
a lot had changed.
The desire to put it down onpaper, so to speak, was more
about getting it out in the openand making it real.
Now, what do I mean by that?
Because of course, it is real.
I did it, I lived and breathedit, I think.
(04:14):
I mean I wanted to acknowledgeit and explore if it had
affected me, or rather how ithad affected me.
By getting it out, I had arecord where I could look back
and maybe pinpoint specifictimes that had contributed to
how and why I reacted in laterlife after the police.
Now that doesn't mean that onlyundercover work affected me.
(04:34):
Policing in general affected me.
Policing in general affectseveryone who does it, whether
they admit it or not.
That was part of the reason forthe podcast as well to let
people hear that they aren't theonly ones who did things that
affected them.
That is how the podcast evolvedinto the Behind the Thin Blue
Line, but I'll come to thatlater.
(04:55):
So a book was out, a movie wasout and I thought to myself how
do people consume stories orinformation?
Now I know podcasts and withthat revelation the Whisper in
the Shadows podcast was born.
Well, the idea was anyway.
I had no idea how to make apodcast, but there was a hell of
a lot of people doing them, sosurely it couldn't be that hard,
(05:17):
could it?
I mean, I had a good story totell.
Well, the stories I told atparties, people loved, so I
thought I'd just record them andoff I go.
Yeah right, I ended up doing alot of research and nearly
researched myself out of theidea, but I needed to get this
out of me to acknowledge I haddone it.
So I bought a podcasting kitwith a microphone, a stand and a
(05:41):
small mixer, tried out somepodcasting apps and off I went.
Now, the first attempt at anepisode was abysmal I just
rambled and the quality was crap.
So I had to think about me as aperson and how was I going to
do this.
I realized that I'd need toscript it.
Now, by that I don't meanmaking it up, but I actually
(06:02):
wrote it out episode by episodeby by by, to make sure that, one
, I didn't miss anything and two, the episodes were consistent
in length and also movingthrough the story, not around it
.
Before I started writing, Ithought to myself I'll get maybe
10 episodes and hopefully have100 people listen to it.
I didn't have a goal aroundthat, I just wanted it out.
(06:24):
I had a whiteboard where all ofthe ops and key players were
written down To me.
That was going to be abouteight episodes.
I thought, if I do an extracouple on how I joined, and then
the informants, then there wasmy 10.
By the time I'd finishedwriting about how I became a UC,
my first job, and theinformants, I think I had about
(06:46):
eight episodes alone.
I definitely needed to do moreplanning.
Okay, so a quick plug here, forwhich I am not getting paid, but
I use Budsprout to host anddistribute my podcasts and I use
Podcastle to record them.
Now, I've tried lots ofdifferent software and apps and
these two work for me.
Castle to record them.
Now, I've tried lots ofdifferent software and apps and
(07:07):
these two work for me.
Now, both I have to pay for touse, as neither of the podcasts
were designed to make money.
That's a cost I'm prepared tobear.
That said, however, I do have alink on each episode where you
can buy me a beer.
So, unabashed plug if you dolike what you've heard on any of
the episodes, please follow thelink and donate some money to
buy me a beer.
I can tell you will be greatlyappreciated.
(07:28):
Okay, so this podcast has nowended up being 21 episodes,
which is absolutely blow my mind.
As of today, there are over6,000 downloads.
Again blows my mind.
All I need now is for a TVseries producer to listen to it
and think it will make a greatlimited series.
Are you listening?
Netflix or Stan?
(07:48):
Okay, all joking aside, it hasnow morphed into something else.
I decided to try and interviewex-COVID police to see how their
lives were affected by doing UCwork.
I've called this series Behindthe Thin Blue Line, and
hopefully you've listened to thefirst three episodes or watched
them on YouTube.
One particular conversationwith Keith Banks, which is
episode two, really struck achord with me.
(08:10):
About PTSD, I had been showingclassic signs and putting it
down to other things.
This conversation switched thelight bulb on, and now I'm
starting to address it.
I don't think that would havehappened without having the
conversation with Keith.
That then gave me new purposeto pivot the podcast to
interview cops in general, bothformer and current, about how
(08:32):
policing has affected theirlives and how they cope with the
stress of it.
To that end, I have two newepisodes ready to go in July.
During the course of settingthis up, though, I've seen that
there are a lot of coppers whowant to get out of the job but
just don't know how, or theydon't know how to use their
skills to find other work.
Now, I guess I was lucky when Ileft the police in 2003, but,
(08:56):
like everything with me, itwasn't conventional.
So I have told the story ofsitting up late at night and
seeing the advert for the policeadjoining because it felt like
the right thing to do.
That was 1990, and through it Ibecame one of the new breed the
first 400 after the Fitzgeraldinquiry, in actual fact, and
(09:22):
most of the 400 who actually gotsworn in on the 12th of
December 1991, were actuallyMuppets most useless police
personnel ever trained.
I knew what the slippery slopeof corruption was.
I knew how to be as soft andcuddly to someone who had a
knife or a gun pointed at me totry and talk them out of it.
But I had no idea about how toreally police.
Nor was I prepared for the cold, hard reality that no one liked
(09:44):
you simply because of the jobyou did and there was literally
no support.
Fast forward to 2002.
I was burnt out.
I was working in Logan for thesecond time in my career.
Now Logan is a shithole.
If you aren't arresting people,you are chasing them or you are
getting abused for doing yourjob.
(10:06):
I was getting reg 11s for themost minor things and I'd had
enough of the bullshit thepolicing had become Now.
I wasn't the best copper, but Icertainly wasn't the worst.
I genuinely wanted to helppeople and stop crime.
I was sitting at home one Sundaymorning and reading the Sunday
Mail which back then newspaperswere still the way you got your
(10:26):
news Flight Centre had taken outa double-page advert with the
words Do you like to travel?
Now I had caught the travel bugin 1999 when I went overseas
for the first time and doneabout four or five trips since
then.
So the answer was resoundingyes, I love to travel.
And that's when it happened.
Another of these feels like theright thing to do moment I got
(10:50):
up, applied for the job andthree weeks later I was offered
the role.
I got up, applied for the joband three weeks later I was
offered the role.
Now, the process to get that jobwas really strange.
I had a group interview where Ihad to sell a pineapple.
I was obviously very good at itbecause I got the job.
Anyway, I immediately tookleave and then decided I would
burn my long service leave onhalf pay After all, travel did
(11:16):
not pay well and I didn't knowif I was going to last at doing
it.
So I finished up at Logan onthe Sunday before I was due to
go on long service leave of sixplus months.
Now everyone I knew was going.
Everyone knew I was going to goand work and travel to see if I
could make a new career out ofit.
Anyway, it was October 13, 2002.
Now that date is significant.
Well, actually the date, thedate of October 12 is
(11:37):
significant.
So I walk into the data room atabout 9.30am for a 10am shift
start.
The TV is on and I was vaguelylooking at it, not really
watching what was going on.
Then one of the guys said to meyou picked a great time to go
into travel, nodding towards theTV.
You see, october 12, 2002,there was a great time to go
into travel, nodding towards theTV.
You see, october 12, 2002,there was a series of bombings
(11:57):
in Bali and I was leavingpolicing to go into an industry
where the most populardestination at the time was Bali
.
It was too late to back out asI was starting the following
morning.
Despite this, I became a travelagent.
At the end of my long serviceleave, I filed my papers to
leave the job.
There was no exit interview.
(12:18):
No, do you need anypsychological help or are you
okay, etc.
Etc.
It was simply hand your badgeback and See ya Now.
I worked as a travel agent forabout 18 months and then moved
into being a tour guide in China, mongolia and Russia.
To be fair, when I applied tobe a tour guide I wanted to do
(12:39):
it in Thailand.
I had just done a trip therewith the company I was to join
and in a group of 12, there wasmyself and 11 girls aged between
18 and 22, which was standardage group for the Thailand tours
I mean, really, for a singleguy who wouldn't want to run
those tours.
But I was offered China, wherethe average age of the tour
group was 55.
(13:00):
But I did get to go to Russia,something I had always wanted to
do, which was a plus.
I came home after two years ofearning $50 a day when you were
on tour and nothing when youweren't.
I got a job in adventure travelas a travel agent again and a
chance meeting with someone Ihad met on a tour I had taken as
a passenger in South America.
(13:21):
I received an email out of theblue from the old tour leader of
that tour.
After about a week of emails Iwas on a plane to Lima in Peru
to be a tour guide in SouthAmerica.
Now I did this for about threeor four months but to be honest,
there was too much cocainebeing done by just about
everyone, which went against myvalues and also my then-fiancee
(13:41):
said I needed to go back toAustralia and get a real job if
I wanted to get married.
In hindsight I probably shouldhave stayed.
So I left and wound up back asa travel agent again.
That lasted for about 80 monthsbefore I became an airline rep,
selling fares for airlines likeLand, airlangus and Continental
to travel agents.
(14:03):
Now that didn't last longbecause apparently I didn't meet
my targets, even though I wasnever told what my targets were
and when I did ask was told Ididn't need to worry about them.
Clearly I did need to worry,but that job loss proved to be
my move out of travel.
At the time I had a friend whowas working in recruitment.
He was earning 60k a year.
(14:23):
Traveler had been paying meabout 40k a year.
In policing I'd been on about65k at the end.
So I saw an advert for arecruitment consultant, applied
and got an interview.
One of the questions they askedme was why I wanted to become a
recruiter.
Of course, still being in thataltruistic mode of policing, I
said I wanted to help people geta job.
(14:44):
I had five interviews all upwith this company and at the
last one, I was asked why Iwanted to be a recruiter.
My answer was I want to makelots of money.
I got the job because that waswhat being in a recruitment
agency was all about makingmoney by putting people into
jobs.
Despite the fact that themanager and owner thought I
(15:04):
wouldn't make it, I became theirrain man and was one of the
biggest builders in the company.
I have been in the recruitmentindustry in some shape or form
since 2008.
I've worked both in an agency,making lots of money, and
internally, where the focus ison bettering the business.
It is a career I wouldn't havehad without policing.
The same can be said for tourleading I wouldn't have done
(15:28):
that without policing either.
Okay, so why am I telling youall of this?
I hear you say Is it because Ilike talking about myself and
telling people how lucky I amand how good I am at not being a
police officer?
Look, the answer to that isprobably yes, but it is also
about the fact that you can haveanother career outside of the
police if you really want to.
(15:50):
I constantly see on social mediaquestions from police about how
they get out of policing and dosomething else.
Most, if not all, look atgovernment jobs or prisons or
private security, because theythink that is all policing has
given them the skills to do.
This is incorrect.
I mean, your policingexperience could make you into a
pretty good crook too.
(16:11):
Anyway, in all seriousness,there is a whole world of things
to do outside of policing thatyour skills enable you to do.
All you have to do isunderstand what those skills are
.
For instance, in recruitment, Ihave to interview people.
Depending on whether I'm in anagency, it is both clients ie
(16:32):
finding out what they reallyneed as opposed to what they
want in a candidate to do theirjob as well as candidates
finding out if they can reallydo the job they are applying for
, because not unlike somevictims and most crooks, no one
tells the truth the first timearound.
The interviewing skills Ilearned as a police officer have
set me up extraordinarily wellto recruit.
(16:54):
I mean, I'm not allowed to usea phone book in interviews
anymore, but I can still pickwhen something just doesn't
sound or feel right.
Same thing with being a tourleader All of the skills around
managing situations or incidents, the organisational parts of
policing, the planning part ofraids and things like that all
helped when I was responsiblefor getting a group of people
(17:15):
across a foreign country onpublic transport without losing
any of them.
Now, unfortunately, I did losesome on a trip in Russia, but
that isn't the point.
The point is the skills I hadas a police officer were spot on
for getting that job.
Why am I telling you this?
As a police officer was spot onfor getting that job.
Why am I telling you this?
Well, as part of the Thin BlueLine podcast, I want to have
(17:35):
conversations with current andformer police about how the job
has affected them, but alsoabout how they went about
leaving and finding a new job.
Let that advice out into thebig bad world and hopefully help
current and former police dealwith PTSD, or at least
understand why they behave incertain ways now and then, and
give them hope that there is alife outside of policing,
(17:57):
sometimes a very lucrative one.
So if you are listening to thisand you would like to have a
conversation with me abouteither your time as a police
officer, to tell your stories,discuss how PTSD has affected
you or your mental health, orhow you managed to find a new
career, hit me up onwhisperintheshadowspodcast at
gmailcom.
(18:17):
Let's start a conversation thatwill hopefully help more police
live happier and healthierlives.
Okay, so that's the end of theline for this current podcast.
I hope you've enjoyed listeningto my time undercover.
I have genuinely enjoyedtelling the story.
If you or anyone you know isexperiencing issues with mental
health, then please reach out tosomeone like Lifeline and get
(18:40):
help.
Thank you for listening andplease join me for the next
installment of Behind the ThinBlue Line a conversation with
police.
Thank you for listening toWhisper in the Shadows the true
story of a real-life undercoverpolice officer.
I hope you've enjoyed theseries.
That has been the final episodein this series of my podcast.
(19:01):
The Behind the Thin Blue Linepodcast will now continue, where
I'll be having conversationswith both former and current
police officers.
In these conversations, I wantto give a voice to all those
living amongst us, unseen andunnoticed, who have put their
life on the line being a policeofficer.
I want to let them tell theirreal-life stories.
Behind the Thin Blue Line isjust that an opportunity for
(19:23):
current and former police totell their stories, good and bad
, to give you, the listener, aglimpse into something that you
will never likely get toexperience.
Please make sure you subscribeto the new podcast so you never
miss an episode.
Lastly, if you're a current orformer police officer, I would
love to chat to you about yourexperiences.
Or if you're feeling dangerousto tell your stories on my
(19:45):
podcast, please get in contactby email, which is
whisperintheshadowspodcast atgmailcom.
Thank you, and I look forwardto catching you on Behind the
Thin Blue Line.
Hello and welcome to my podcast Whisper in the
Shadows the true story of areal-life undercover cop.
I'm Michael Bates and I was apolice officer for 15 years in
one of the country's statepolice forces.
I was also an undercover copfor over two years and all the
episodes of this podcast are mytrue stories of what it's really
like to be an undercover cop.
(00:22):
Rather, I was Michael Bates.
Okay, okay, stop, stop, stopthere.
For the last 20 episodes, youhave been listening to this
introduction about how MichaelBates isn't my real name but was
in fact, the name I used when Iworked as an undercover police
officer.
And if you didn't know that,did you even listen to my
podcast Whisper in the Shadowsthe true story of a real life
(00:44):
undercover cop?
Anyway, if you are listening tothis episode, the very last one
of this series then I'massuming you have been.
So Michael Bates is not my realname.
However, I will reveal my realidentity.
My name is actually JasonSomerville and between 1991 and
2003, I was a police officer inthe Queensland Police Service.
(01:05):
Yes, that's right.
All of these undercover jobswere done in the state of
Queensland.
I was a member of the covertunit between 1995 and 1997, and
this is when these jobs tookplace.
Now obviously, names have beenchanged for both informants and
targets, but Michael Bates was areal identity.
The details of these storiesare, to the best of my
(01:25):
recollection, true and didactually happen the way I have
described them.
I will let you see if you canwork out where the operations
took place now.
You know they were inQueensland.
During my time in the police Iworked in Cairns, working as far
north as Bamaga, which is thepointy bit of Queensland to
Logan where I was working whenthe first drug buy came about,
the pointy bit of Queensland toLogan where I was working when
(01:47):
the first drug buy came about.
After the covert squad I wentto work in the Brisbane City
Station.
Then I was promoted to a seniorconstable in Mount Isa, working
in places like Bedourie andBirdsville, and my last posting
was back in Logan before Ieventually pulled stumps.
When I first thought about doingthis, I had concerns about
being tracked down by people Ihad dealt with if they knew my
real name.
Hence the use of my MichaelBates persona.
(02:08):
But as I went through my time Icame to the conclusion that
most of the people I had dealtwith would be either dead in
prison or not able to walk, letalone hunt me down.
And besides, I'm pretty surecriminals don't listen to true
crime podcasts.
So why am I telling you all andshattering the illusion?
Because it's the illusion thatneeds to be shattered.
(02:29):
It is the silence and secrecyof not talking about what
happens to you as a policeofficer that needs to be
shattered.
I want to bring out into theopen the effect policing has on
the women and men who decide topursue the calling of policing A
very noble calling, right.
Well, to be honest, that's nothow this all started.
Many years ago, after leavingthe police, I was traveling, and
(02:50):
one of the group was a verycreative person.
I told the group some of thestories that I have relayed in
this podcast, as well as some ofthe other antics I got up to as
a copper during many nights ofdrinking on this travel.
That's many nights of drinkingon the travel.
I told stories.
Not many nights of drinking onthis travel.
That's many nights of drinkingon the travel.
I told stories.
Not many nights drinking as acopper.
Anyway, this person suggested Iwrite a book about my time
(03:11):
undercover, as it seemed like aninteresting longer story, so I
started one.
Now, this was beforesmartphones, youtube and Spotify
.
Time went by and the writingpart became less frequent.
One day back here in Australia,I had an epiphany why not turn
it into a movie script?
Now, this was about the timethat the TV show Stingers had
(03:32):
just come out.
Anyway, I had been a bit of athespian in my day, especially
at school, but also during mytime in the police.
I was part of a couple oftheatre and musical groups, so I
pivoted and started writing ascreenplay.
I think in the book I got toabout one chapter being written,
the screenplay probably thefirst act, which was joining the
(03:53):
police story how I became a UCstory.
And then life took over and whenI finally got back to the idea,
a lot had changed.
The desire to put it down onpaper, so to speak, was more
about getting it out in the openand making it real.
Now, what do I mean by that?
Because of course, it is real.
I did it, I lived and breathedit, I think.
(04:14):
I mean I wanted to acknowledgeit and explore if it had
affected me, or rather how ithad affected me.
By getting it out, I had arecord where I could look back
and maybe pinpoint specifictimes that had contributed to
how and why I reacted in laterlife after the police.
Now that doesn't mean that onlyundercover work affected me.
(04:34):
Policing in general affected me.
Policing in general affectseveryone who does it, whether
they admit it or not.
That was part of the reason forthe podcast as well to let
people hear that they aren't theonly ones who did things that
affected them.
That is how the podcast evolvedinto the Behind the Thin Blue
Line, but I'll come to thatlater.
(04:55):
So a book was out, a movie wasout and I thought to myself how
do people consume stories orinformation?
Now I know podcasts and withthat revelation the Whisper in
the Shadows podcast was born.
Well, the idea was anyway.
I had no idea how to make apodcast, but there was a hell of
a lot of people doing them, sosurely it couldn't be that hard,
(05:17):
could it?
I mean, I had a good story totell.
Well, the stories I told atparties, people loved, so I
thought I'd just record them andoff I go.
Yeah right, I ended up doing alot of research and nearly
researched myself out of theidea, but I needed to get this
out of me to acknowledge I haddone it.
So I bought a podcasting kitwith a microphone, a stand and a
(05:41):
small mixer, tried out somepodcasting apps and off I went.
Now, the first attempt at anepisode was abysmal I just
rambled and the quality was crap.
So I had to think about me as aperson and how was I going to
do this.
I realized that I'd need toscript it.
Now, by that I don't meanmaking it up, but I actually
(06:02):
wrote it out episode by episodeby by by, to make sure that, one
, I didn't miss anything and two, the episodes were consistent
in length and also movingthrough the story, not around it
.
Before I started writing, Ithought to myself I'll get maybe
10 episodes and hopefully have100 people listen to it.
I didn't have a goal aroundthat, I just wanted it out.
(06:24):
I had a whiteboard where all ofthe ops and key players were
written down To me.
That was going to be abouteight episodes.
I thought, if I do an extracouple on how I joined, and then
the informants, then there wasmy 10.
By the time I'd finishedwriting about how I became a UC,
my first job, and theinformants, I think I had about
(06:46):
eight episodes alone.
I definitely needed to do moreplanning.
Okay, so a quick plug here, forwhich I am not getting paid, but
I use Budsprout to host anddistribute my podcasts and I use
Podcastle to record them.
Now, I've tried lots ofdifferent software and apps and
these two work for me.
Castle to record them.
Now, I've tried lots ofdifferent software and apps and
(07:07):
these two work for me.
Now, both I have to pay for touse, as neither of the podcasts
were designed to make money.
That's a cost I'm prepared tobear.
That said, however, I do have alink on each episode where you
can buy me a beer.
So, unabashed plug if you dolike what you've heard on any of
the episodes, please follow thelink and donate some money to
buy me a beer.
I can tell you will be greatlyappreciated.
(07:28):
Okay, so this podcast has nowended up being 21 episodes,
which is absolutely blow my mind.
As of today, there are over6,000 downloads.
Again blows my mind.
All I need now is for a TVseries producer to listen to it
and think it will make a greatlimited series.
Are you listening?
Netflix or Stan?
(07:48):
Okay, all joking aside, it hasnow morphed into something else.
I decided to try and interviewex-COVID police to see how their
lives were affected by doing UCwork.
I've called this series Behindthe Thin Blue Line, and
hopefully you've listened to thefirst three episodes or watched
them on YouTube.
One particular conversationwith Keith Banks, which is
episode two, really struck achord with me.
(08:10):
About PTSD, I had been showingclassic signs and putting it
down to other things.
This conversation switched thelight bulb on, and now I'm
starting to address it.
I don't think that would havehappened without having the
conversation with Keith.
That then gave me new purposeto pivot the podcast to
interview cops in general, bothformer and current, about how
(08:32):
policing has affected theirlives and how they cope with the
stress of it.
To that end, I have two newepisodes ready to go in July.
During the course of settingthis up, though, I've seen that
there are a lot of coppers whowant to get out of the job but
just don't know how, or theydon't know how to use their
skills to find other work.
Now, I guess I was lucky when Ileft the police in 2003, but,
(08:56):
like everything with me, itwasn't conventional.
So I have told the story ofsitting up late at night and
seeing the advert for the policeadjoining because it felt like
the right thing to do.
That was 1990, and through it Ibecame one of the new breed the
first 400 after the Fitzgeraldinquiry, in actual fact, and
(09:22):
most of the 400 who actually gotsworn in on the 12th of
December 1991, were actuallyMuppets most useless police
personnel ever trained.
I knew what the slippery slopeof corruption was.
I knew how to be as soft andcuddly to someone who had a
knife or a gun pointed at me totry and talk them out of it.
But I had no idea about how toreally police.
Nor was I prepared for the cold, hard reality that no one liked
(09:44):
you simply because of the jobyou did and there was literally
no support.
Fast forward to 2002.
I was burnt out.
I was working in Logan for thesecond time in my career.
Now Logan is a shithole.
If you aren't arresting people,you are chasing them or you are
getting abused for doing yourjob.
(10:06):
I was getting reg 11s for themost minor things and I'd had
enough of the bullshit thepolicing had become Now.
I wasn't the best copper, but Icertainly wasn't the worst.
I genuinely wanted to helppeople and stop crime.
I was sitting at home one Sundaymorning and reading the Sunday
Mail which back then newspaperswere still the way you got your
(10:26):
news Flight Centre had taken outa double-page advert with the
words Do you like to travel?
Now I had caught the travel bugin 1999 when I went overseas
for the first time and doneabout four or five trips since
then.
So the answer was resoundingyes, I love to travel.
And that's when it happened.
Another of these feels like theright thing to do moment I got
(10:50):
up, applied for the job andthree weeks later I was offered
the role.
I got up, applied for the joband three weeks later I was
offered the role.
Now, the process to get that jobwas really strange.
I had a group interview where Ihad to sell a pineapple.
I was obviously very good at itbecause I got the job.
Anyway, I immediately tookleave and then decided I would
burn my long service leave onhalf pay After all, travel did
(11:16):
not pay well and I didn't knowif I was going to last at doing
it.
So I finished up at Logan onthe Sunday before I was due to
go on long service leave of sixplus months.
Now everyone I knew was going.
Everyone knew I was going to goand work and travel to see if I
could make a new career out ofit.
Anyway, it was October 13, 2002.
Now that date is significant.
Well, actually the date, thedate of October 12 is
(11:37):
significant.
So I walk into the data room atabout 9.30am for a 10am shift
start.
The TV is on and I was vaguelylooking at it, not really
watching what was going on.
Then one of the guys said to meyou picked a great time to go
into travel, nodding towards theTV.
You see, october 12, 2002,there was a great time to go
into travel, nodding towards theTV.
You see, october 12, 2002,there was a series of bombings
(11:57):
in Bali and I was leavingpolicing to go into an industry
where the most populardestination at the time was Bali
.
It was too late to back out asI was starting the following
morning.
Despite this, I became a travelagent.
At the end of my long serviceleave, I filed my papers to
leave the job.
There was no exit interview.
(12:18):
No, do you need anypsychological help or are you
okay, etc.
Etc.
It was simply hand your badgeback and See ya Now.
I worked as a travel agent forabout 18 months and then moved
into being a tour guide in China, mongolia and Russia.
To be fair, when I applied tobe a tour guide I wanted to do
(12:39):
it in Thailand.
I had just done a trip therewith the company I was to join
and in a group of 12, there wasmyself and 11 girls aged between
18 and 22, which was standardage group for the Thailand tours
I mean, really, for a singleguy who wouldn't want to run
those tours.
But I was offered China, wherethe average age of the tour
group was 55.
(13:00):
But I did get to go to Russia,something I had always wanted to
do, which was a plus.
I came home after two years ofearning $50 a day when you were
on tour and nothing when youweren't.
I got a job in adventure travelas a travel agent again and a
chance meeting with someone Ihad met on a tour I had taken as
a passenger in South America.
(13:21):
I received an email out of theblue from the old tour leader of
that tour.
After about a week of emails Iwas on a plane to Lima in Peru
to be a tour guide in SouthAmerica.
Now I did this for about threeor four months but to be honest,
there was too much cocainebeing done by just about
everyone, which went against myvalues and also my then-fiancee
(13:41):
said I needed to go back toAustralia and get a real job if
I wanted to get married.
In hindsight I probably shouldhave stayed.
So I left and wound up back asa travel agent again.
That lasted for about 80 monthsbefore I became an airline rep,
selling fares for airlines likeLand, airlangus and Continental
to travel agents.
(14:03):
Now that didn't last longbecause apparently I didn't meet
my targets, even though I wasnever told what my targets were
and when I did ask was told Ididn't need to worry about them.
Clearly I did need to worry,but that job loss proved to be
my move out of travel.
At the time I had a friend whowas working in recruitment.
He was earning 60k a year.
(14:23):
Traveler had been paying meabout 40k a year.
In policing I'd been on about65k at the end.
So I saw an advert for arecruitment consultant, applied
and got an interview.
One of the questions they askedme was why I wanted to become a
recruiter.
Of course, still being in thataltruistic mode of policing, I
said I wanted to help people geta job.
(14:44):
I had five interviews all upwith this company and at the
last one, I was asked why Iwanted to be a recruiter.
My answer was I want to makelots of money.
I got the job because that waswhat being in a recruitment
agency was all about makingmoney by putting people into
jobs.
Despite the fact that themanager and owner thought I
(15:04):
wouldn't make it, I became theirrain man and was one of the
biggest builders in the company.
I have been in the recruitmentindustry in some shape or form
since 2008.
I've worked both in an agency,making lots of money, and
internally, where the focus ison bettering the business.
It is a career I wouldn't havehad without policing.
The same can be said for tourleading I wouldn't have done
(15:28):
that without policing either.
Okay, so why am I telling youall of this?
I hear you say Is it because Ilike talking about myself and
telling people how lucky I amand how good I am at not being a
police officer?
Look, the answer to that isprobably yes, but it is also
about the fact that you can haveanother career outside of the
police if you really want to.
(15:50):
I constantly see on social mediaquestions from police about how
they get out of policing and dosomething else.
Most, if not all, look atgovernment jobs or prisons or
private security, because theythink that is all policing has
given them the skills to do.
This is incorrect.
I mean, your policingexperience could make you into a
pretty good crook too.
(16:11):
Anyway, in all seriousness,there is a whole world of things
to do outside of policing thatyour skills enable you to do.
All you have to do isunderstand what those skills are
.
For instance, in recruitment, Ihave to interview people.
Depending on whether I'm in anagency, it is both clients ie
(16:32):
finding out what they reallyneed as opposed to what they
want in a candidate to do theirjob as well as candidates
finding out if they can reallydo the job they are applying for
, because not unlike somevictims and most crooks, no one
tells the truth the first timearound.
The interviewing skills Ilearned as a police officer have
set me up extraordinarily wellto recruit.
(16:54):
I mean, I'm not allowed to usea phone book in interviews
anymore, but I can still pickwhen something just doesn't
sound or feel right.
Same thing with being a tourleader All of the skills around
managing situations or incidents, the organisational parts of
policing, the planning part ofraids and things like that all
helped when I was responsiblefor getting a group of people
(17:15):
across a foreign country onpublic transport without losing
any of them.
Now, unfortunately, I did losesome on a trip in Russia, but
that isn't the point.
The point is the skills I hadas a police officer were spot on
for getting that job.
Why am I telling you this?
As a police officer was spot onfor getting that job.
Why am I telling you this?
Well, as part of the Thin BlueLine podcast, I want to have
(17:35):
conversations with current andformer police about how the job
has affected them, but alsoabout how they went about
leaving and finding a new job.
Let that advice out into thebig bad world and hopefully help
current and former police dealwith PTSD, or at least
understand why they behave incertain ways now and then, and
give them hope that there is alife outside of policing,
(17:57):
sometimes a very lucrative one.
So if you are listening to thisand you would like to have a
conversation with me abouteither your time as a police
officer, to tell your stories,discuss how PTSD has affected
you or your mental health, orhow you managed to find a new
career, hit me up onwhisperintheshadowspodcast at
gmailcom.
(18:17):
Let's start a conversation thatwill hopefully help more police
live happier and healthierlives.
Okay, so that's the end of theline for this current podcast.
I hope you've enjoyed listeningto my time undercover.
I have genuinely enjoyedtelling the story.
If you or anyone you know isexperiencing issues with mental
health, then please reach out tosomeone like Lifeline and get
(18:40):
help.
Thank you for listening andplease join me for the next
installment of Behind the ThinBlue Line a conversation with
police.
Thank you for listening toWhisper in the Shadows the true
story of a real-life undercoverpolice officer.
I hope you've enjoyed theseries.
That has been the final episodein this series of my podcast.
(19:01):
The Behind the Thin Blue Linepodcast will now continue, where
I'll be having conversationswith both former and current
police officers.
In these conversations, I wantto give a voice to all those
living amongst us, unseen andunnoticed, who have put their
life on the line being a policeofficer.
I want to let them tell theirreal-life stories.
Behind the Thin Blue Line isjust that an opportunity for
(19:23):
current and former police totell their stories, good and bad
, to give you, the listener, aglimpse into something that you
will never likely get toexperience.
Please make sure you subscribeto the new podcast so you never
miss an episode.
Lastly, if you're a current orformer police officer, I would
love to chat to you about yourexperiences.
Or if you're feeling dangerousto tell your stories on my
(19:45):
podcast, please get in contactby email, which is
whisperintheshadowspodcast atgmailcom.
Thank you, and I look forwardto catching you on Behind the
Thin Blue Line.
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