July 22, 2024 • 42 mins
Imagine standing at a regional roadblock in the early days of the COVID-19 pandemic, when every interaction is tinged with uncertainty and fear. Greg Kingston, a seasoned officer accustomed to handling firearms licensing, found himself reassigned and thrust into high-stress situations. During one domestic disturbance call, a woman’s immediate verbal assault pushed Greg to his limits, revealing how cumulative disrespect has worn down his patience over the years. This episode uncovers the emotional toll that repeated disrespect can take on law enforcement officers, challenging the notion that enduring abuse is just part of the job.
Ever wondered what real police work looks like behind the scenes? Forget the high-octane chases and dramatic arrests you see on TV. Greg takes us on a journey through the painstakingly detailed world of undercover surveillance, sharing a gripping tale from a 2014 operation targeting a drug network in the UK. We explore the strategic maneuvers required to unmask the kingpins and delve into the less glamorous, yet essential, tasks like paperwork and adapting to new technologies. This chapter paints a true-to-life picture of the complexities and challenges faced by officers working to keep our communities safe.
From the streets of Belgium to the cobbled lanes of Bruges, follow us on an international covert surveillance mission filled with twists, turns, and unexpected challenges. As Greg’s team navigates communication glitches and supply shortages, we get a front-row seat to the high-stakes world of international policing. The episode culminates in a dramatic pursuit through Bruges, highlighting the improvisation and quick thinking required in real-time operations. Wrapping up, Greg reflects on his 27-year career and the bittersweet transition to managing a family business, underscoring the profound impact of his experiences in law enforcement. Tune in for an episode rich with raw human emotion, behind-the-scenes stories, and invaluable insights into the complexities of police work.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Behind the Thin Blue Line, a Whisper in
the Shadows podcast.
In each city, in everyneighbourhood, on every street
they stand tall, those in blueguardians of our community, our
protectors.
But who are they really?
Behind the Thin Blue Line isthe podcast that takes you
behind the badge, beyond theheadlines, and into the hearts
(00:24):
of those who serve and protect.
We're here to break downbarriers and to tear down the
walls of misunderstanding.
We're here to listen to theirstories, their triumphs, their
fears.
Ever wonder what it's likeserving undercover, or what's
the real-life impact of policing, or how they cope with trauma?
Listen as we step into theshoes of those who walk the thin
(00:47):
blue line.
You have heard my true storiesof what it's really like to be
an undercover cop.
I want to give a voice to allthose living amongst us, unseen
and unnoticed, who have puttheir life on the line being a
police officer, hopefully togive you, the listener, a
glimpse into something you willlikely never get to experience
Uncover the complex world of lawenforcement and the raw human
(01:09):
experiences behind the badge.
Join me, jason Somerville, yourhost and a former police officer
myself, as we navigate throughthese stories on Behind the Thin
Blue Line.
Let's go and meet our nextguest.
Welcome back to part two of myconversation with Greg Kingston.
(01:30):
Last week, greg was justtelling us about how his
tolerance levels had slowly,over the years, declined in
regards to dealing with peoplewho didn't show respect to the
job or to the uniform.
Join us now as Greg continuesthis conversation and talking
about what happened and we moveon to further understanding what
(01:53):
he's been doing and what hewill be doing after policing.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
But I haven't let situations that I've dealt with
previously kind of cloud myjudgment into how I treat
somebody else.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
What if you don't get there?
And you just you've said youknow you expect respect back.
If you're not getting that,what?
What buttons does that push?
Speaker 2 (02:15):
and we can hardly talk about this if you don't
want yeah, no, no, it's fine, itpushes the wrong ones for sure
you know, because you you'reasking people to do things,
they're not doing it or they'regiving you a gob full of abuse.
So I found at the beginning ofCOVID it's a fairly good example
, I think.
Yeah, my tolerance level becauseI was in an office, I was
(02:36):
working at firearms licensing.
Yeah, beginning of COVID, wegot turfed out of the office
because they deemed it not to bean essential service at the
time, was put back in uniform,went to man what we called
regional roadblocks, so peopleweren't allowed to move outside
their region in WA and if youwanted to, you had to get
basically a passport andauthority to go.
(02:57):
And it ended up that the OIC ofthe station I was at asked us
if we'd mind doing some taskingso the guys that were tasking
could have a break and go to theroadblocks, because it was a
fairly easy gig sitting on yourbackside for 10 hours checking
everyone was coming through withthe right authority.
And we went to a domestic wherethe guy had gone wandering off
(03:19):
with his kid in a pair of boxes,I believe it was and she came
out of the side door and justgave us a mouthful of abuse
before we'd even said hello toher.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
And I just lost it.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
And I just went back off her and there was a few Fs
and a few Jeffs thrown in there,yep, and she looked at me,
called me an old C, told me thatI wasn't allowed in the house,
which I was quite happy about.
My younger colleague wasallowed in and managed to
resolve the situation.
But it was just my tolerancelevel for people's own issues
(03:52):
that aren't police issues.
You know, everybody has anargument and I get.
Domestic violence is a massiveissue across the world, really
not just Australia.
You know we're not alone inthat problem, but it was.
You know, just.
It was a stupid argument andshe'd actually thrown a thong at
him which had gone through afront window which she was then
trying to claim he'd thrown ather and all sorts of things.
(04:14):
You know the typical big thongwas.
Yeah, it was one of those reefthings, I think so fairly,
fairly weighty and it I just mytolerance level had gone back
when you first started in thejob.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Do you think you would have reacted in the same
way?
Speaker 2 (04:29):
no, no, definitely not.
Because I knew as a youngconstable, even back in the UK,
that if I'd acted that way Iwould probably have been hauled
up in front of thesuperintendent and given a good
dressing down, whereas 20something years later I didn't
care if I was hauled up in frontof the superintendent.
I was just at the point where Icouldn't be bothered.
You know she'd come out and waswasn't picking on me, she was
(04:52):
talking to us both in the sameway.
Yeah, and I just, but there wasa lack of respect?
yeah, not even so much therespect.
You know, she just came out andstarted shouting and screaming
and swearing at us and we hadn'teven found out what had gone on
.
You know, she hadn't told uswhat had happened and what she
wanted us to do.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
She was just going off her chops, yep, and I wasn't
prepared to stand there andlisten to it and that's fair
enough, and and I don't believeyou should either and you know
there might be people listeningto this who go, yeah, but but
that's your job.
No, that's not a policeofficer's job.
Where I'm going with this isthat.
Do you think and this issomething I've struggled with
(05:34):
that lack of respect issomething that's built up over
the years, that from not so muchthe dead bodies and that sort
of stuff, but the overall lackof respect that police get shown
in their job, has developed.
A a issue is not the right word, but a response to that where
(05:55):
it's like hey, no, I've hadenough of being treated like a
doormat.
You're supposed to respect mebecause that's what my job is
yeah, and I don't.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
I'm not sure that even they should be respecting
us.
They should respect the uniform, not the person, because you
know, you get all sorts ofpeople put the uniform on and
some of them are assholes.
I'm not going to beat about thebush.
You know some of them areassholes and they're the ones
that give the ones that aren't agood name.
Oh, sorry, a bad name.
Yeah, so yeah, and I definitelythink that over the last 20
(06:30):
something, 26 years that thelevel of respect for the uniform
has dwindled massively.
Um, we'll go back to ourearlier conversation.
You know that I think socialmedia has had a massive, massive
role in, in, in that, you know,lack of respect, if you want to
call it that.
The media are so quick to knockthe police these days and you
(06:53):
know, I think, consequently, thepublic then think well, if the
media are knocking the coppers,then why can't I?
You know it just seems to beyeah.
And then you've got your ownexecutive.
That you know, oh, you know, oh.
The shit on you from a greatheight, don't they?
Speaker 1 (07:06):
do you think there's a there's, there's a, I guess,
with the media and the public ingeneral, because you, you, you
know, one of the things that wementioned was that not so much
respect for the person, butrespect for the uniform and
respect for the job and and andthat sort of thing.
Do you think that this wholelack of respect and this whole
being oh well, if they're doingit, we can, we can knock them is
(07:27):
comes about because people justdon't understand?
Speaker 2 (07:32):
yeah, and I think you said it earlier that you know
there's not enough that getsbroadcast about what the police
do from day to day.
All of these programs you seeon telly don't really scratch
the surface.
They say that they show the.
You know the juicy bits, thebit that, yeah, that people want
to see that.
You know the good traffic stops, the highway patrols doing
their bits and pieces.
They don't show.
You know the mundane stuffwhere you're sitting in an
(07:54):
office having to do paperworkbecause if you don't you're
going to get hauled up in frontof you.
Know some magistrate becauseyou haven't prepared your brief
properly, or, yep, you know yoursenior sergeant's going to give
you a roasting as well.
Yes, but that's boring.
People don't want to see that.
You know it's.
That's not something, but it isa massive part of the job, as
(08:14):
is all of the other mundanestuff that never gets shown.
You know, and I think if thepublic were a little bit more
aware of more of what we did,they might have a different
perception.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
They know, and that's very true.
All right, let's change tack alittle bit.
Yep, when you first started,what surprised you the most
about policing?
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Oh, what surprised me most.
Going back to the boring thepaperwork yeah, it was back in
those days before computers werereally.
You know, the late 90scomputers were there, but they
were fairly rudimentary you.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
You were lucky I had, I had a, an electric typewriter
and well, well and nine nineyou know briefs were were nine
carbon copies that you had toturn around and make sure you
got them the right way around.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Again, yeah, again, yeah yeah, no, I didn't have
typewriters, but you know, wewere still, you know, preparing
our own briefs ourself, you know.
So, yeah, I think, the amount ofpaperwork that you had to do.
Even so, we had somethingcalled stop and search back in
the UK, yeah, where you couldwith reasonable grounds, you
could stop anyone on the streetand have a chat with them and
(09:25):
you'd build up your grounds tosearch them.
Most of the time you'd knowwhat you were looking for.
You'd be looking for a druggieor someone with stolen property
or something similar like that,but you had to complete a raft
of paperwork to justify yourstop and search.
So, yeah, I think the level ofpaperwork was the biggest
surprise.
It wasn't all Gucci going outin the street with the lights
(09:47):
flashing and chasing aftershoplifters or burglars or this,
that and the other, and rollingaround and putting the
handcuffs on and giving them ayou're nicked, mate.
You know you then had, afterall of that happened, you then
had hours and hours behind adesk, or, you know, staring at a
screen trying to get everythingready to a standard that was
going to get a conviction.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
If you'd known that, do you think you would have
joined?
Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
I think the bad things that I've experienced are
far outweighed by the goodthings I've experienced.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Okay, Now, usually around this time, I will ask you
to tell some stories, and Iknow you've got a couple of good
ones that you've alluded to, soI'll hand it over to you and
tell us about some of the thingsthat you've done that you think
are really interesting orreally you know people would
(10:38):
like to hear about.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Okay, Well, this one is a surveillance job.
When I was back in the UK, aswe've talked about, I was on a
surveillance team.
Then it was 2014 that thisactual part of the operation
happened.
It was a long running operation.
We'd been working on itprobably on and off for the best
part of 12 months prior to thisactual week.
(11:00):
Yeah, and it was a group what wecalled a criminal network same
here that was importing drugsfrom Europe into Kent.
Generally they were coming inon trucks across the ferries
into ports that weren'tparticularly well observed by
the border force or anyone likethat.
So it wasn't the main one inDover.
(11:22):
Then it wasn't the main one inDover.
No, there was a couple in Essexand further around the coast,
going up the north.
There that were predominantlycargo ports and so, yeah, we'd,
we'd worked our way through thiscriminal network, taking out
lower players that we evidencedwith either amounts of cash or
(11:42):
drugs on them and, again, as asurveillance officer, we weren't
involved in the arrest.
We'd have teams that would goout and do the arrest so we
could remain anonymous.
But there was a pair not farfrom where I first policed, on
the southeast kent coast there,that were the kingpins of this
(12:02):
organization.
So we had a phone call on aSunday from the OPC Commander
saying we need six people tobring the passports, because we
believe that subject they allcall him is travelling to
Holland to facilitate a drugsimportation and we had taken out
the players below them thatwould previously have done that
(12:25):
themselves.
So that was the whole point ofit, was to take out the lower
players so that the big bods,the kingpins, had to do the hand
work themselves and that's whatwe succeeded in doing.
So we turned up to work, so ourteams were generally about 10
strong.
Yep, we would normally have amotorbike with us as well, but
(12:47):
they were a bit pedantic withthe weather conditions so we
wouldn't always have them.
So we tipped up to work andobviously we've now got all we
had.
Have still got the ability toget on a train and you go
through passport control and thenext thing you're in france or
or belgium, yep.
So we anticipated that he wasgoing to be using the euro
(13:11):
tunnel, hence the reason we weretaking passports.
So we had a briefing we'dalways brief in the morning
about what we were going to bedoing that day and what the
crews were.
So we were in situation on thesubject's home address at 4.30
on the Monday morning and theintel didn't.
It wasn't specific enough thathe was going on Monday, but we
(13:33):
knew at some point in the nextfew days he was going to be
travelling across to Europe.
Yeah, it got to lunchtime, oneo'clock.
We hadn't seen him all day.
The guys that were obviouslythere was a phone tap.
The guys that were on the phonesaid it's not going to happen
today, so you might as wellstand down, go home, get some
sleep, come back for the sametime tomorrow.
(13:54):
So Tuesday comes.
We're back on the plot at 4.30.
We go till about half past 12,quarter to one, again thinking
it's not happening today.
He then comes out of his houseand he gets in his car, drives
around the local town.
We observe what we believe areprobably minor drug deals.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
And he then goes home and we think, well, that's
probably it for the day.
He's done his stuff.
But then about five minutesbefore stand down time, which
the op commander called at oneo'clock, he came out with a
wheelie suitcase.
So we knew that we were goingon at that point, walked to the
local train station and jumpedon a train and we had an
operative in close that foundout he was getting the train up
(14:37):
to l, to the internationalterminal.
So our cars were fitted withcovert blue lights and sirens.
So those of us that weren't onthe train, we put two on the
train to control him up toLondon.
Those of us that weren't on thetrain, then blue light run up
to other international stationson the route and we managed to
get to London before he did.
So that was the whole team,plus we had two investigators
(15:01):
that were traveling with us.
Yeah, they made some inquiriesthrough the Met Police, who
police at the internationalstations, and flagged his name.
So when he bought a ticket wewere made aware of where he was
going and what time train he wasgoing to be getting.
So we were then bought tickets.
So for the six operatives plusthe two investigators, we got
(15:23):
tickets, we were assistedthrough security and X-ray
machines because we were wearingbody sets covert body sets for
our communications and, bearingin mind these trains are about
25 carriages long, our ticketswere 14 carriages behind him.
He was up near the front of thetrain and are about 25
carriages long.
Our tickets were 14 carriagesbehind him.
He was up near the front of thetrain and we were 14 carriages
(15:44):
back, so fortunately the buffetcar was the one in front.
So we had two in the buffet carthat were enjoying a Coke and a
sandwich on the train throughthe tunnel.
But he goes to Brussels and he'sone of the first off the train.
He literally almost runs alongthe platform and followed by the
two that were in the buffet carand jumps in a.
(16:06):
It wasn't a legit taxi, it wasone of those.
Certainly in Europe you getdodgy taxis, yep.
So he jumped in that.
The two that got off the trainbehind him jumped in one behind
it and follow that taxi and ittook us to some dingy district
in the back streets of Brussels.
So the rest of us and the twoinvestigators jumped in another
legitimate taxi and ended up inthis dingy area and controlled a
(16:29):
bar where he'd been seen goinginto, came out about 30 minutes
later, having wandered thestreets for you know a good five
, 10 minutes looking forsomething.
And he then got in another taxi.
And we then had a loss on himbecause we'd got no vehicles.
But the investigators did a goodjob and had got bank records
from previous trips of his andworked out that he stayed at
(16:51):
this particular chain of hotels.
So we all jumped in anothertaxi back to this hotel and I
went in to inquire about roomsfor the night because we'd
thought we'd lost him.
And as I was at the hotelreception desk, he came down and
sat at the bar and got himselfa beer.
So we managed to get rooms inthe same hotel.
But we were still anticipatingthat the following day he was
(17:12):
going to be going to Holland.
So we researched and found outthat he the train station opened
at 5.30.
So we at this point it wasprobably about half past 10, 11
o'clock at night we still neededto debrief the day's
surveillance.
So we found a restaurant, had abite to eat and probably got to
bed about one half one, I wouldthink.
And we're then back up andready at 5.30, covering the
(17:36):
ticket office and we had one inthe hotel lobby with a laptop
looking like they were waitingfor a business meeting or
something.
So about 10 o'clock thefollowing day so this is now
Wednesday he came out, wanderedaround the local area, didn't
make any moves towards the trainstation, and I should probably
explain at this point.
(17:56):
So our radios work on a digitalradio network in the UK, so
they were absolutely useless inBelgium, except we had what was
called the back-to-backoperability, so we could talk to
each other about 100 metersaway.
But it was affected massivelyby things like electric power
lines, train lines, buildingsyou know the topography around
(18:17):
so we really weren't able tocommunicate with each other.
And the other thing is wedidn't have chargers for
anything because we were onlyexpecting to go for a day and
literally back.
We were handing over to dutchsurveillance who were ready to
receive him.
So we had nothing.
We didn't even have a change ofclothes other than maybe a
spare pair of jocks or something.
So he wanders around.
An early afternoon he actuallywalks out of the train station
(18:40):
and meets with a englishregistered vehicle that hands
him an envelope and drives off.
That was.
It was just literally a handoverof an envelope and he drove off
, and later intelligence told usthat that was a debit card,
that he'd been brought by one ofthe other players back in the
uk because he was trying to hirea car to get to holland, and it
(19:02):
also turned out that thatbackstreet ding place that he
took us to on the first, when hefirst arrived, they had dogged
the car up there, but becausebrussels is the head of, or the
um, the center of the europeanunion, if you like, they're very
strict on security and this carhad been sacked for two weeks
with no movement, so they pickedit up and taken it away.
(19:22):
So had, he got that car, our daywould have been, you know,
unless we'd managed to get ataxi that was prepared to go to
Holland, our day would have beenover even more quickly anyway.
So, going on, he went into acouple of car hire places and
had obviously used what we nowknow was this debit card, but
they wouldn't take it becausethey require credit cards.
So he wasn't having a good daywas he?
(19:44):
he wasn't having a good day, no,and he was constantly on the
phone and our guys back therewere eventually coming through
to us saying you know, he'strying to hire a car and he
can't because he's got a debitcard.
The investigators made anapproach to one of the car hire
places and they told them thatthere is one place, or a couple
of places, will accept cash ordebit cards.
So we were still anticipatingthat he was going to try and
hire a car.
But eventually he went back tothe hotel and sat down at the
(20:09):
bar again and looked like he wasin for the night.
So we'd booked out of thathotel in the morning, so we were
now without room.
So we then had to go and findanother hotel.
We didn't really want to stayin the same hotel as him again,
so we found another hotel ashort distance away, but we're
back on the ground at 5 30 thefollowing morning.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
So this is now thursday did you go to a, a
place to buy some?
Speaker 2 (20:32):
clothes, yeah.
So the commander sent two ofthe operatives off, so there was
five guys and one female.
She was allowed to go off on herown and buy her own pants and
bra, but they essentially justsaid right, we've got a couple
of guys that are probably XL,two that are large and two that
might be medium.
So we'll just go and buy sixT-shirts of various sizes and
(20:54):
six pairs of jocks that arevarious sizes and pairs of socks
to do us all.
But the big thing aboutsurveillance is that you need to
change your appearance, and weonly had one coat, we only had
one kind of outer layer ofclothing, so we were kind of
really flying by the seat of ourpants almost because, we
weren't able to change ourappearances that much, but yeah,
(21:17):
so we got clothes, but we'reall running on fumes, really,
because we've had a very longday the first day, the second
dayagain.
We were covering the trainstation until last knockings,
which was about nine o'clock atnight.
We then had to do the debriefagain and we were back again at
5 30 the following morning.
So there was something that wasapplied for before we even left
(21:38):
.
The uk called an article 40,which it's twofold.
It gives us the authority todeploy abroad, yeah, but it also
should not force, but certainlyrequest the assistance of the
police from the country thatyou're in, yep.
So the investigators got holdof the police in brussels and
they basically told us where togo, but they might be able to
bring us chargers for our radios, which it turned out they
(22:01):
didn't fit.
They didn't use the same stuffeven, you know trying different.
You know those chargers you getwith multiple adapters on, so
they didn't work.
So Thursday came, we'reabsolutely hanging myself and
one of the other operativeswatching the train station and,
lo and behold, mate boy comesout.
We get the heads up that he'sleft the hotel and he walks into
(22:24):
the ticket office and buys aticket for Bruges, which is on
the way to Holland.
But it's not the internationaltrain or the train that would
have taken him to Holland.
So again, we're on a magicaljourney who knows where.
So we all pile on the train toBruges.
We get off, our man, jumps inanother taxi and disappears as
(22:46):
soon as he's off the train.
Two manage to get in the taxi.
Sorry, not two, four of us.
We all pile in the taxi behindand do the old film words of
follow that cab.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Yeah, what did the cab?
Speaker 2 (22:59):
drivers say when you did that, it was quite funny
actually, because this cabdriver was fairly switched on
and he was like are you JamesBond?
And it was like, no, we're notJames Bond.
We need you to follow that taxi, though, and he was doing a
couple of red lights, which heshouldn't have done, and we said
to him look, don't get introuble for us.
And he turned around andpointed to the taxi sign.
(23:20):
You know the authority thatthey have.
It was laminated in his car andhe went.
Well, this feels like JamesBond, because my taxi number is
007.
That was quite an amusinglittle aspect of it, but because
of traffic and traffic lights,we we eventually lost our bloke,
but the taxi driver actuallygot onto the base and spoke to
(23:41):
them and said where's this taxigone?
And he led us to a hotel thatbordered the motorway that would
take you to Holland if you hada car.
So we pulled up in the taxi tosee our man walking up the hotel
steps into this taxi.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
So this is obviously a prearranged point that he's
now been told to go to yeah yepon the way to bruges.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
The investigators had got hold of some friendlies
that they'd met on previousoperations that were part of the
drugs and police in bruges, andthey actually came out, so we
managed to get rid of the taxidriver.
We then sat outside the hotelcovertly saw our man come out he
walked up and down the street acouple of times and as he was
(24:25):
walking back in, a dutchregistered car drove into the
car park.
My man went to the back andwalked out with one of those,
you know, those big nylonlaundry bags that are red and
white yeah, one of those and itwas obviously fairly weighty.
So we're now thinking that he'sobviously got the handover of
what was meant to go in a truckin holland when, if should he
(24:46):
have got there, still didn'tknow whether it was cash or
drugs, assumed it was drugs.
But the belgian authoritiesaren't allowed to just go on.
We think it's this.
They have to go to a judge andget permission to, or they
present the circumstances andthe evidence that we've got up
to date, and the judge then says, okay, well, you can go and
arrest him and see what you'vegot.
So the Dutch car left the hotelwe sent, in fact, myself and my
(25:08):
colleague in the car with theBelgian copper went herring off
up the motorway after it to atleast get the registration plate
, which we managed to do.
We then passed on to the dutchauthorities.
We then got back to the hotelas the belgian, the bruges
police, had been given theauthority by the judge to go
into the hotel and arrest ourman and search his room.
So the belgian police wereplainclothes and armed, but they
(25:31):
weren't routine.
Well, routinely, they weren'twhat's the word I'm trying to
look for conventionally armed,the guns in waistbands and
things like that.
You, you know it wasn't in aholster, yeah.
And so we had two officers inthe bar with a recording device,
which I won't go into too muchdetails, but it was on the table
recording everything that wenton.
(25:51):
And this Belgian inspectorwalked into the hotel bar,
identified our subject, grabbedhim around the the throat,
pulled his gun from hiswaistband, pointed at his head
and this dark patch appeared atthe pants area of our subject
and he was arrested and castedaway.
So the hotel manager, it turnedout, was very friendly with a
(26:14):
higher up in the Bruges policeand was more than happy to
assist us and told us which roomour man had been in.
And we then went upstairs tothe hotel room with Belgian
police and searched the room andI pulled back the curtain and
there was this bag that we'dseen being taken from the Dutch
car, and we opened it and therewas 13 bricks of cocaine in
(26:34):
there, which were a kilo each,and at the time the value, I
think, was 2.1 million euros,whatever that equates to in
Australian dollars?
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Is that street value or how much he would have paid
for those 13 years that was?
Speaker 2 (26:47):
probably wholesale value.
So that was uncut, fairly purecocaine.
So that would equate toprobably if you cut it, even 25%
.
You're probably looking at 8 to10 million euros.
So it was a fairly substantialseizure.
Yeah, what else happened?
So on the Wednesday our officehad decided, because we hadn't
got to Holland, that they weregoing to send four out with like
(27:09):
a VW transporter.
So at least we had some wheels,we had the ability to dump our
bags and you know they weregoing to bring out a load of
coats that were hanging in theoffice, so that at least we got
some chance of changing ourappearance.
So they left the UK.
On Thursday morning, as we weregetting on the train to go to
Bruges, and after all of thesearch had been done and we'd
(27:29):
found and seized the bag ofcocaine and our man had been
carted off, we still had todebrief.
So we debriefed everything andwe were enjoying a couple of
beers when the guys from the ukarrived in their vw transporter
and enjoyed some beers with whathappened.
What happened to old mate?
He was so on the continentthey're fairly quick in dealing
(27:52):
with things like this and withintwo months he was sentenced
years.
Did he have more time?
Speaker 1 (27:58):
to spend Like.
Was he charged with anythingwhen he went back to the UK?
Speaker 2 (28:03):
I honestly don't know , because that happened in 2014.
So it was about sorry, that'smy front door.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
That's okay.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
So that happened two months before I was due to leave
to come to Australia.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Would the assumption be that that would happen,
though I would imagine.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
So yeah, because there were obviously crimes that
were being committed in the UKwith the rest of the network
that we were investigating.
Yeah, but as a result of himgetting arrested, obviously
words got back to the UK and theother head, honcho, I think he
and the other guy back inEngland were the two main ones
(28:39):
he then went on the run andeventually, a few days later,
his lawyer contacted the policeinvestigators and he gave
himself up eventually because heknew that his time was up.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
His time was up yeah.
That's a very, very full-onstory.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
It was.
Yeah, I mean that's probablyslightly shortened, it was you
know, but that was the best.
Mean, that's probably slightlyshortened, it was you know, but
that was the best job that I wasever involved in because, as I
said earlier, you never knewfrom one day to the next where
you were going to be, what timeyou were going to finish and
where you were going to end upand to have ended up, you know,
in a foreign country with nobackup.
(29:18):
Really, the investigators thatwe had with us did a fantastic
job of kind of contacting theircounterparts in the uk and then
liaising with the bruges policewhen it we got to bruges.
But we were just absolute.
But it was the first operationthat kent police had deployed
abroad.
Yeah, you know, given thatwe're so close to the continent,
(29:38):
it was the first time thesurveillance team had gone
abroad to manage to maintaincontrol of the subject when we
were without, you know,communications.
Realistically, we were almostreverting to the old school hand
signals at times.
Yeah, and my wife might burstinto the room because I've just
heard her come home, that's okay.
So, yeah, no clothes, nocommunications, very little
(30:00):
backup, and although we got thatarticle 40 in place, the
belgians weren't particularlyforthcoming until we got to
bruges.
So, but to top things off, wethen had to get back to brussels
to get the train back toengland and back to london and,
being a friday afternoon, it washeaving.
We couldn't get seats.
We managed to get, I think,four seats on the first train.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Two on the next, which left two or three of us
there.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Yeah, couldn't drive back in a transporter.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
No, that was full with the operatives that had
come out.
So they went back and it got tothe point where we were offered
first class seats for somethinglike $2,000 a go.
It was £1,000 each to upgradeto first class, which, as much
as we've done a good job, I'mnot sure management would have
been too keen.
So we ended up in what's calledthe sin bin, which is where the
coppers sit when they'retransporting prisoners.
(30:54):
So one of the seats wasbasically just a bench and
extremely uncomfortable andthere was three of us and we
basically just rotated it.
Every half hour We'd changeseats.
How long is the train trip?
It was about two hours 20minutes, fair enough.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Well, that wasn't too bad.
That's a great outcome.
It was a fantastic operation bythe sounds of things.
A couple of things I sort ofwant to go over, but I guess one
of the things I want to talkabout is if someone came to you
for advice to join the job, whatcrucial trait do you think
someone needs to join the joband what advice would?
Speaker 2 (31:30):
you give them Difficult in this day and age
when there's so many leaving,but there's still plenty of good
people out there that do wantto join.
Yeah, you know, you've just gotto be open to experience
different things.
I think being honest andtrustworthy is one of the
biggest traits you can have,because if you can't be honest
with yourself, then you know,and your colleagues, then you're
(31:55):
not going to be honest withwhat you're preparing for court,
and that's where a lot ofthings fall down and I think you
need some life experiencebefore you join the police.
These kids that are joining at18, who come from school and
maybe had a summer job doingsomething somewhere I don't
think Stan's in good stead and Iwork at the police academy in
(32:18):
Perth now and I look at some ofthe kids that come through and I
just I really I don't fear forthem, but I wonder how they're
going to react when they gothrough the first domestic and
some big brute the bloke that's,you know, 50 odd years old
turns around to them and sayswhat the fuck are you telling me
what to do when you're 18?
You've never been married,you've never experienced, you
know, a relationship, you know,so you've got to be prepared for
(32:41):
, for that aspect of it.
But go out and get some lifeexperience before you, before
you join it might seem it mightseem, gucci, it might seem
exciting, but the chances areit's not going to be exciting.
You're going to be snowed underwith case files and court
paperwork and training courseson the computer that come out
left, right and center.
But go and have some lifeexperience first.
(33:03):
Go and enjoy yourself for a fewyears before you commit to
potentially what could be a 30plus year career and, and part
of that is learn to understandpeople.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
I think as as well.
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Definitely, and I think the big problem these days
is that, especially in WaypoleI don't know what it is like
around the rest of the country,but everything's done on the
phones these days, which isgreat for the kids because they
can use them better than I evercould.
But the trouble is they're headdown in the phone.
They haven't got that 360, youknow.
Appreciation of what's goingaround them.
(33:35):
You know they're not going tosee someone, that's coming to
them.
This is what we call it, they'renot going to see the smack that
comes from the side of the head, or you know, because they are
too busy head down in the phone.
So you know again, it's greathaving technology that works for
you, but you've still got toretain that situational
appreciation, as you say.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Yeah, you, but you've still got to retain that
situational appreciation, as yousay.
Yeah, no, this is very true.
I want to circle back tosomething that we were talking
about.
So we were talking about, youknow, the whole respect thing
and the impact of what you'veseen and things like that.
You're coming to an end of theend of your policing career.
Yeah, do you have any concernspersonally in regards to this
(34:16):
transition to the next stage ofyour career and coping with that
?
Now I probably know a littlebit more because you've had some
conversations with Nabeel aboutyour wife transitioning out and
all that sort of stuff, etc.
But do you sort of go, oh, whathappens if this doesn't work?
Or you know that sort of thing.
(34:37):
Do you have any concerns thatyou may suffer from PTSD and
that may be something that's youknow could contribute in an
organization, or I get youworking with your wife, but you
might not always't understand itand doesn't doesn't sort of
have that back?
Speaker 2 (34:57):
I think the biggest thing for me leaving is kind of
the not anxiety, but it's thatleaving something that you've
known for what will have beenthe best part of 27 years when I
eventually go.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Sorry about the doorbell is it cookie week or
something, is it?
Speaker 2 (35:13):
I've no idea what it is and the wife's should have
been home anyway.
But having done something formore than half of my life and
it's been the same thing,whether it's been surveillance,
general duties, training thatI'm doing at the academy now
it's still been in the police,family, yep, and walking away
from that.
You know, apart from anythingelse, it's guaranteed paycheck
(35:36):
every two weeks unless I dosomething really stupid and mess
up.
Yep, you know I'm going to beresponsible for not just my
family and my wife's business.
You know we're jointlyresponsible for that, but we've
got something like 50 employeesnow, yeah, so we're responsible
for those and it's a big weightto to carry, you know,
(35:56):
especially in these days when atouch with covid seems to have
although it's rampant again,certainly over here, it's not
had the same impact as it did,you know, four years ago, when
everyone was housebound forseven days.
Schools were shutting.
It seems to just be kind of thenorm these days that people get
on with it.
Yep, I do think I'm going tomiss that thrill of the chase.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
Okay, yeah, thrill of the chase.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
The camaraderie.
You know the enjoyment you get,but I won't miss, you know, the
paperwork.
I've gone on about that already, Although what I'm going to be
doing more is probably morepaperwork.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
But, it's.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
You know the motivation for us is to make our
business succeed and you knowwe give employment to 50 local
women.
They're all women that work inthe canteen at the moment, you
know.
So that's our motivation, youknow, and the feedback that
we're getting from the schoolsthat we're in, especially one
(36:55):
that we've just opened recently,you know, is great and is a
great motivator.
I'm not going to miss seeingthe more gruesome side of things
and dealing with the idiots andthe arseholes that you do in
policing Touchwood we don't seemto have too many in the canteen
operations.
Well, that's good.
In the canteen operations, well, that's good.
(37:16):
As far as PTSD, I think I'vespoken to you briefly about what
happened with my wife and Iknow she's happy to speak with
you at some point in the future,that'd be great.
But having gone through PTSDwith her, what she suffers and I
know PTSD varies from person toperson yeah, even given what
I've seen, I do have flashbacksto things, but it doesn't affect
(37:39):
me for more than maybe half anhour.
Yeah, there's one that willstick with me to the end of my
days and that was a six-year-oldbaby that I had to do
mouth-to-mouth on.
Yeah, and that does, if I thinkabout it for too long, it does
affect me.
So, yes, and that does, if Ithink about it for too long, it
does affect me.
So, yes, I have got ptsd andI've kept the card that the mum
(38:00):
wrote to us after the incident.
Yeah, and again, that'ssomething that I will keep
forever, forever.
Yeah, I won't ever be able tolet that go.
And that was it was over here inwa fairly early on in my
service over here, and that wasone of those where you go home
and you just give you certainlyyour kids a big hug.
Yeah, and that's when Kate,with her experience of PTSD,
(38:21):
just kind of when the kids hadgone to bed, sat me down and we
talked through it and she went.
You know I'm always here, as Ihad been for her when she went
through her PTSD.
But, yeah, what Kate wentthrough was is something else
and I'll let you talk to herabout that.
But having gone through thatprocess with her, I think it's
helped me deal with issues thatI've encountered and other than
(38:46):
you know.
A few flashbacks and certainlythat situation with the
six-year-old I don't reallydwell on things too much, yeah,
so I count myself lucky that ithasn't affected me much more
than that and yeah, no, there'svery like, I guess one of the
one of the things you've touchedon there, and this is something
that I ask everyone in regardsto.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
If you're feeling, if people are listening to this
and they go, you know what I canrelate to, that I'm feeling
that way, or or I've got thesethings what's the one bit of
advice that you would givesomeone in that situation?
And I think you've spoken a lotabout when you were talking
about, yeah, with your wifethere, but yeah, yeah don't
bottle it up.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
yeah, just don't bottle it up, because I think if
you do, then it just becomes abigger and bigger, bigger issue
in your own head, to the pointwhere it can start to cause
issues.
Yep, and talk to somebody,whether that's a professional
therapist, a colleague at workthat you trust and you get on
with and that was either youknow at the job with you or
(39:45):
knows what you're going through,or you know you feel
comfortable talking to or go andsee your GP and tell them how
you're feeling, because we knowhow big a problem mental health
issues are these days,particularly for emergency
services, not just the police.
There's other emergencyservices out there that deal
with as gruesome situations aswe do that affect them.
(40:09):
Yep, but yeah, the mentalhealth side of things and it's
not just in the emergencyservices, you know, it's right
across society.
Yes, you know the push forpeople to talk to people I think
is right that it is getting theattention that it is.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
No, and that's very good advice.
All right, look, what we mightdo is wrap it up there.
I really appreciate you openingup and having a conversation
with us about your time in thepolice and obviously some of
these other things.
What I'll do before we wrap upis I will leave the last comment
to you, oh no pressure.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
I just think you've got to enjoy your life, however
that comes, and if you do findyourself struggling, please talk
to somebody.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
Very, very good advice.
All right, Greg, thank you forjoining us.
To everyone else, thank you forlistening to Behind the Thin
Blue Line.
If you're a current or formerpolice officer and you would
like to tell your story or talkabout what you do, then please
email me atwhisperintheshadowspodcast at
gmailcom.
Thank you for your time and wewill catch you next time.
(41:22):
Thank you for joining me onbehind the thin blue line, where
I have conversations withcurrent and former police
officers and they get to telltheir stories.
I hope you've enjoyed thatepisode.
In the next episode we'll againexplore the human side of
policing through moreconversations with police
officers from around the world.
Please make sure you subscribeto the podcast so you never miss
(41:44):
an episode.
Lastly, if you're a current orformer police officer, I would
love to chat to you about yourexperiences or, if you're
feeling dangerous, tell yourstories on my podcast.
Please get in contact by myemail, which is
whisperintheshadowspodcast atgmailcom.
I look forward to you joiningme next week.
Welcome to Behind the Thin Blue Line, a Whisper in
the Shadows podcast.
In each city, in everyneighbourhood, on every street
they stand tall, those in blueguardians of our community, our
protectors.
But who are they really?
Behind the Thin Blue Line isthe podcast that takes you
behind the badge, beyond theheadlines, and into the hearts
(00:24):
of those who serve and protect.
We're here to break downbarriers and to tear down the
walls of misunderstanding.
We're here to listen to theirstories, their triumphs, their
fears.
Ever wonder what it's likeserving undercover, or what's
the real-life impact of policing, or how they cope with trauma?
Listen as we step into theshoes of those who walk the thin
(00:47):
blue line.
You have heard my true storiesof what it's really like to be
an undercover cop.
I want to give a voice to allthose living amongst us, unseen
and unnoticed, who have puttheir life on the line being a
police officer, hopefully togive you, the listener, a
glimpse into something you willlikely never get to experience
Uncover the complex world of lawenforcement and the raw human
(01:09):
experiences behind the badge.
Join me, jason Somerville, yourhost and a former police officer
myself, as we navigate throughthese stories on Behind the Thin
Blue Line.
Let's go and meet our nextguest.
Welcome back to part two of myconversation with Greg Kingston.
(01:30):
Last week, greg was justtelling us about how his
tolerance levels had slowly,over the years, declined in
regards to dealing with peoplewho didn't show respect to the
job or to the uniform.
Join us now as Greg continuesthis conversation and talking
about what happened and we moveon to further understanding what
(01:53):
he's been doing and what hewill be doing after policing.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
But I haven't let situations that I've dealt with
previously kind of cloud myjudgment into how I treat
somebody else.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
What if you don't get there?
And you just you've said youknow you expect respect back.
If you're not getting that,what?
What buttons does that push?
Speaker 2 (02:15):
and we can hardly talk about this if you don't
want yeah, no, no, it's fine, itpushes the wrong ones for sure
you know, because you you'reasking people to do things,
they're not doing it or they'regiving you a gob full of abuse.
So I found at the beginning ofCOVID it's a fairly good example
, I think.
Yeah, my tolerance level becauseI was in an office, I was
(02:36):
working at firearms licensing.
Yeah, beginning of COVID, wegot turfed out of the office
because they deemed it not to bean essential service at the
time, was put back in uniform,went to man what we called
regional roadblocks, so peopleweren't allowed to move outside
their region in WA and if youwanted to, you had to get
basically a passport andauthority to go.
(02:57):
And it ended up that the OIC ofthe station I was at asked us
if we'd mind doing some taskingso the guys that were tasking
could have a break and go to theroadblocks, because it was a
fairly easy gig sitting on yourbackside for 10 hours checking
everyone was coming through withthe right authority.
And we went to a domestic wherethe guy had gone wandering off
(03:19):
with his kid in a pair of boxes,I believe it was and she came
out of the side door and justgave us a mouthful of abuse
before we'd even said hello toher.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
And I just lost it.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
And I just went back off her and there was a few Fs
and a few Jeffs thrown in there,yep, and she looked at me,
called me an old C, told me thatI wasn't allowed in the house,
which I was quite happy about.
My younger colleague wasallowed in and managed to
resolve the situation.
But it was just my tolerancelevel for people's own issues
(03:52):
that aren't police issues.
You know, everybody has anargument and I get.
Domestic violence is a massiveissue across the world, really
not just Australia.
You know we're not alone inthat problem, but it was.
You know, just.
It was a stupid argument andshe'd actually thrown a thong at
him which had gone through afront window which she was then
trying to claim he'd thrown ather and all sorts of things.
(04:14):
You know the typical big thongwas.
Yeah, it was one of those reefthings, I think so fairly,
fairly weighty and it I just mytolerance level had gone back
when you first started in thejob.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Do you think you would have reacted in the same
way?
Speaker 2 (04:29):
no, no, definitely not.
Because I knew as a youngconstable, even back in the UK,
that if I'd acted that way Iwould probably have been hauled
up in front of thesuperintendent and given a good
dressing down, whereas 20something years later I didn't
care if I was hauled up in frontof the superintendent.
I was just at the point where Icouldn't be bothered.
You know she'd come out and waswasn't picking on me, she was
(04:52):
talking to us both in the sameway.
Yeah, and I just, but there wasa lack of respect?
yeah, not even so much therespect.
You know, she just came out andstarted shouting and screaming
and swearing at us and we hadn'teven found out what had gone on
.
You know, she hadn't told uswhat had happened and what she
wanted us to do.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
She was just going off her chops, yep, and I wasn't
prepared to stand there andlisten to it and that's fair
enough, and and I don't believeyou should either and you know
there might be people listeningto this who go, yeah, but but
that's your job.
No, that's not a policeofficer's job.
Where I'm going with this isthat.
Do you think and this issomething I've struggled with
(05:34):
that lack of respect issomething that's built up over
the years, that from not so muchthe dead bodies and that sort
of stuff, but the overall lackof respect that police get shown
in their job, has developed.
A a issue is not the right word, but a response to that where
(05:55):
it's like hey, no, I've hadenough of being treated like a
doormat.
You're supposed to respect mebecause that's what my job is
yeah, and I don't.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
I'm not sure that even they should be respecting
us.
They should respect the uniform, not the person, because you
know, you get all sorts ofpeople put the uniform on and
some of them are assholes.
I'm not going to beat about thebush.
You know some of them areassholes and they're the ones
that give the ones that aren't agood name.
Oh, sorry, a bad name.
Yeah, so yeah, and I definitelythink that over the last 20
(06:30):
something, 26 years that thelevel of respect for the uniform
has dwindled massively.
Um, we'll go back to ourearlier conversation.
You know that I think socialmedia has had a massive, massive
role in, in, in that, you know,lack of respect, if you want to
call it that.
The media are so quick to knockthe police these days and you
(06:53):
know, I think, consequently, thepublic then think well, if the
media are knocking the coppers,then why can't I?
You know it just seems to beyeah.
And then you've got your ownexecutive.
That you know, oh, you know, oh.
The shit on you from a greatheight, don't they?
Speaker 1 (07:06):
do you think there's a there's, there's a, I guess,
with the media and the public ingeneral, because you, you, you
know, one of the things that wementioned was that not so much
respect for the person, butrespect for the uniform and
respect for the job and and andthat sort of thing.
Do you think that this wholelack of respect and this whole
being oh well, if they're doingit, we can, we can knock them is
(07:27):
comes about because people justdon't understand?
Speaker 2 (07:32):
yeah, and I think you said it earlier that you know
there's not enough that getsbroadcast about what the police
do from day to day.
All of these programs you seeon telly don't really scratch
the surface.
They say that they show the.
You know the juicy bits, thebit that, yeah, that people want
to see that.
You know the good traffic stops, the highway patrols doing
their bits and pieces.
They don't show.
You know the mundane stuffwhere you're sitting in an
(07:54):
office having to do paperworkbecause if you don't you're
going to get hauled up in frontof you.
Know some magistrate becauseyou haven't prepared your brief
properly, or, yep, you know yoursenior sergeant's going to give
you a roasting as well.
Yes, but that's boring.
People don't want to see that.
You know it's.
That's not something, but it isa massive part of the job, as
(08:14):
is all of the other mundanestuff that never gets shown.
You know, and I think if thepublic were a little bit more
aware of more of what we did,they might have a different
perception.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
They know, and that's very true.
All right, let's change tack alittle bit.
Yep, when you first started,what surprised you the most
about policing?
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Oh, what surprised me most.
Going back to the boring thepaperwork yeah, it was back in
those days before computers werereally.
You know, the late 90scomputers were there, but they
were fairly rudimentary you.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
You were lucky I had, I had a, an electric typewriter
and well, well and nine nineyou know briefs were were nine
carbon copies that you had toturn around and make sure you
got them the right way around.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Again, yeah, again, yeah yeah, no, I didn't have
typewriters, but you know, wewere still, you know, preparing
our own briefs ourself, you know.
So, yeah, I think, the amount ofpaperwork that you had to do.
Even so, we had somethingcalled stop and search back in
the UK, yeah, where you couldwith reasonable grounds, you
could stop anyone on the streetand have a chat with them and
(09:25):
you'd build up your grounds tosearch them.
Most of the time you'd knowwhat you were looking for.
You'd be looking for a druggieor someone with stolen property
or something similar like that,but you had to complete a raft
of paperwork to justify yourstop and search.
So, yeah, I think the level ofpaperwork was the biggest
surprise.
It wasn't all Gucci going outin the street with the lights
(09:47):
flashing and chasing aftershoplifters or burglars or this,
that and the other, and rollingaround and putting the
handcuffs on and giving them ayou're nicked, mate.
You know you then had, afterall of that happened, you then
had hours and hours behind adesk, or, you know, staring at a
screen trying to get everythingready to a standard that was
going to get a conviction.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
If you'd known that, do you think you would have
joined?
Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
I think the bad things that I've experienced are
far outweighed by the goodthings I've experienced.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Okay, Now, usually around this time, I will ask you
to tell some stories, and Iknow you've got a couple of good
ones that you've alluded to, soI'll hand it over to you and
tell us about some of the thingsthat you've done that you think
are really interesting orreally you know people would
(10:38):
like to hear about.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Okay, Well, this one is a surveillance job.
When I was back in the UK, aswe've talked about, I was on a
surveillance team.
Then it was 2014 that thisactual part of the operation
happened.
It was a long running operation.
We'd been working on itprobably on and off for the best
part of 12 months prior to thisactual week.
(11:00):
Yeah, and it was a group what wecalled a criminal network same
here that was importing drugsfrom Europe into Kent.
Generally they were coming inon trucks across the ferries
into ports that weren'tparticularly well observed by
the border force or anyone likethat.
So it wasn't the main one inDover.
(11:22):
Then it wasn't the main one inDover.
No, there was a couple in Essexand further around the coast,
going up the north.
There that were predominantlycargo ports and so, yeah, we'd,
we'd worked our way through thiscriminal network, taking out
lower players that we evidencedwith either amounts of cash or
(11:42):
drugs on them and, again, as asurveillance officer, we weren't
involved in the arrest.
We'd have teams that would goout and do the arrest so we
could remain anonymous.
But there was a pair not farfrom where I first policed, on
the southeast kent coast there,that were the kingpins of this
(12:02):
organization.
So we had a phone call on aSunday from the OPC Commander
saying we need six people tobring the passports, because we
believe that subject they allcall him is travelling to
Holland to facilitate a drugsimportation and we had taken out
the players below them thatwould previously have done that
(12:25):
themselves.
So that was the whole point ofit, was to take out the lower
players so that the big bods,the kingpins, had to do the hand
work themselves and that's whatwe succeeded in doing.
So we turned up to work, so ourteams were generally about 10
strong.
Yep, we would normally have amotorbike with us as well, but
(12:47):
they were a bit pedantic withthe weather conditions so we
wouldn't always have them.
So we tipped up to work andobviously we've now got all we
had.
Have still got the ability toget on a train and you go
through passport control and thenext thing you're in france or
or belgium, yep.
So we anticipated that he wasgoing to be using the euro
(13:11):
tunnel, hence the reason we weretaking passports.
So we had a briefing we'dalways brief in the morning
about what we were going to bedoing that day and what the
crews were.
So we were in situation on thesubject's home address at 4.30
on the Monday morning and theintel didn't.
It wasn't specific enough thathe was going on Monday, but we
(13:33):
knew at some point in the nextfew days he was going to be
travelling across to Europe.
Yeah, it got to lunchtime, oneo'clock.
We hadn't seen him all day.
The guys that were obviouslythere was a phone tap.
The guys that were on the phonesaid it's not going to happen
today, so you might as wellstand down, go home, get some
sleep, come back for the sametime tomorrow.
(13:54):
So Tuesday comes.
We're back on the plot at 4.30.
We go till about half past 12,quarter to one, again thinking
it's not happening today.
He then comes out of his houseand he gets in his car, drives
around the local town.
We observe what we believe areprobably minor drug deals.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
And he then goes home and we think, well, that's
probably it for the day.
He's done his stuff.
But then about five minutesbefore stand down time, which
the op commander called at oneo'clock, he came out with a
wheelie suitcase.
So we knew that we were goingon at that point, walked to the
local train station and jumpedon a train and we had an
operative in close that foundout he was getting the train up
(14:37):
to l, to the internationalterminal.
So our cars were fitted withcovert blue lights and sirens.
So those of us that weren't onthe train, we put two on the
train to control him up toLondon.
Those of us that weren't on thetrain, then blue light run up
to other international stationson the route and we managed to
get to London before he did.
So that was the whole team,plus we had two investigators
(15:01):
that were traveling with us.
Yeah, they made some inquiriesthrough the Met Police, who
police at the internationalstations, and flagged his name.
So when he bought a ticket wewere made aware of where he was
going and what time train he wasgoing to be getting.
So we were then bought tickets.
So for the six operatives plusthe two investigators, we got
(15:23):
tickets, we were assistedthrough security and X-ray
machines because we were wearingbody sets covert body sets for
our communications and, bearingin mind these trains are about
25 carriages long, our ticketswere 14 carriages behind him.
He was up near the front of thetrain and are about 25
carriages long.
Our tickets were 14 carriagesbehind him.
He was up near the front of thetrain and we were 14 carriages
(15:44):
back, so fortunately the buffetcar was the one in front.
So we had two in the buffet carthat were enjoying a Coke and a
sandwich on the train throughthe tunnel.
But he goes to Brussels and he'sone of the first off the train.
He literally almost runs alongthe platform and followed by the
two that were in the buffet carand jumps in a.
(16:06):
It wasn't a legit taxi, it wasone of those.
Certainly in Europe you getdodgy taxis, yep.
So he jumped in that.
The two that got off the trainbehind him jumped in one behind
it and follow that taxi and ittook us to some dingy district
in the back streets of Brussels.
So the rest of us and the twoinvestigators jumped in another
legitimate taxi and ended up inthis dingy area and controlled a
(16:29):
bar where he'd been seen goinginto, came out about 30 minutes
later, having wandered thestreets for you know a good five
, 10 minutes looking forsomething.
And he then got in another taxi.
And we then had a loss on himbecause we'd got no vehicles.
But the investigators did a goodjob and had got bank records
from previous trips of his andworked out that he stayed at
(16:51):
this particular chain of hotels.
So we all jumped in anothertaxi back to this hotel and I
went in to inquire about roomsfor the night because we'd
thought we'd lost him.
And as I was at the hotelreception desk, he came down and
sat at the bar and got himselfa beer.
So we managed to get rooms inthe same hotel.
But we were still anticipatingthat the following day he was
(17:12):
going to be going to Holland.
So we researched and found outthat he the train station opened
at 5.30.
So we at this point it wasprobably about half past 10, 11
o'clock at night we still neededto debrief the day's
surveillance.
So we found a restaurant, had abite to eat and probably got to
bed about one half one, I wouldthink.
And we're then back up andready at 5.30, covering the
(17:36):
ticket office and we had one inthe hotel lobby with a laptop
looking like they were waitingfor a business meeting or
something.
So about 10 o'clock thefollowing day so this is now
Wednesday he came out, wanderedaround the local area, didn't
make any moves towards the trainstation, and I should probably
explain at this point.
(17:56):
So our radios work on a digitalradio network in the UK, so
they were absolutely useless inBelgium, except we had what was
called the back-to-backoperability, so we could talk to
each other about 100 metersaway.
But it was affected massivelyby things like electric power
lines, train lines, buildingsyou know the topography around
(18:17):
so we really weren't able tocommunicate with each other.
And the other thing is wedidn't have chargers for
anything because we were onlyexpecting to go for a day and
literally back.
We were handing over to dutchsurveillance who were ready to
receive him.
So we had nothing.
We didn't even have a change ofclothes other than maybe a
spare pair of jocks or something.
So he wanders around.
An early afternoon he actuallywalks out of the train station
(18:40):
and meets with a englishregistered vehicle that hands
him an envelope and drives off.
That was.
It was just literally a handoverof an envelope and he drove off
, and later intelligence told usthat that was a debit card,
that he'd been brought by one ofthe other players back in the
uk because he was trying to hirea car to get to holland, and it
(19:02):
also turned out that thatbackstreet ding place that he
took us to on the first, when hefirst arrived, they had dogged
the car up there, but becausebrussels is the head of, or the
um, the center of the europeanunion, if you like, they're very
strict on security and this carhad been sacked for two weeks
with no movement, so they pickedit up and taken it away.
(19:22):
So had, he got that car, our daywould have been, you know,
unless we'd managed to get ataxi that was prepared to go to
Holland, our day would have beenover even more quickly anyway.
So, going on, he went into acouple of car hire places and
had obviously used what we nowknow was this debit card, but
they wouldn't take it becausethey require credit cards.
So he wasn't having a good daywas he?
(19:44):
he wasn't having a good day, no,and he was constantly on the
phone and our guys back therewere eventually coming through
to us saying you know, he'strying to hire a car and he
can't because he's got a debitcard.
The investigators made anapproach to one of the car hire
places and they told them thatthere is one place, or a couple
of places, will accept cash ordebit cards.
So we were still anticipatingthat he was going to try and
hire a car.
But eventually he went back tothe hotel and sat down at the
(20:09):
bar again and looked like he wasin for the night.
So we'd booked out of thathotel in the morning, so we were
now without room.
So we then had to go and findanother hotel.
We didn't really want to stayin the same hotel as him again,
so we found another hotel ashort distance away, but we're
back on the ground at 5 30 thefollowing morning.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
So this is now thursday did you go to a, a
place to buy some?
Speaker 2 (20:32):
clothes, yeah.
So the commander sent two ofthe operatives off, so there was
five guys and one female.
She was allowed to go off on herown and buy her own pants and
bra, but they essentially justsaid right, we've got a couple
of guys that are probably XL,two that are large and two that
might be medium.
So we'll just go and buy sixT-shirts of various sizes and
(20:54):
six pairs of jocks that arevarious sizes and pairs of socks
to do us all.
But the big thing aboutsurveillance is that you need to
change your appearance, and weonly had one coat, we only had
one kind of outer layer ofclothing, so we were kind of
really flying by the seat of ourpants almost because, we
weren't able to change ourappearances that much, but yeah,
(21:17):
so we got clothes, but we'reall running on fumes, really,
because we've had a very longday the first day, the second
dayagain.
We were covering the trainstation until last knockings,
which was about nine o'clock atnight.
We then had to do the debriefagain and we were back again at
5 30 the following morning.
So there was something that wasapplied for before we even left
(21:38):
.
The uk called an article 40,which it's twofold.
It gives us the authority todeploy abroad, yeah, but it also
should not force, but certainlyrequest the assistance of the
police from the country thatyou're in, yep.
So the investigators got holdof the police in brussels and
they basically told us where togo, but they might be able to
bring us chargers for our radios, which it turned out they
(22:01):
didn't fit.
They didn't use the same stuffeven, you know trying different.
You know those chargers you getwith multiple adapters on, so
they didn't work.
So Thursday came, we'reabsolutely hanging myself and
one of the other operativeswatching the train station and,
lo and behold, mate boy comesout.
We get the heads up that he'sleft the hotel and he walks into
(22:24):
the ticket office and buys aticket for Bruges, which is on
the way to Holland.
But it's not the internationaltrain or the train that would
have taken him to Holland.
So again, we're on a magicaljourney who knows where.
So we all pile on the train toBruges.
We get off, our man, jumps inanother taxi and disappears as
(22:46):
soon as he's off the train.
Two manage to get in the taxi.
Sorry, not two, four of us.
We all pile in the taxi behindand do the old film words of
follow that cab.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Yeah, what did the cab?
Speaker 2 (22:59):
drivers say when you did that, it was quite funny
actually, because this cabdriver was fairly switched on
and he was like are you JamesBond?
And it was like, no, we're notJames Bond.
We need you to follow that taxi, though, and he was doing a
couple of red lights, which heshouldn't have done, and we said
to him look, don't get introuble for us.
And he turned around andpointed to the taxi sign.
(23:20):
You know the authority thatthey have.
It was laminated in his car andhe went.
Well, this feels like JamesBond, because my taxi number is
007.
That was quite an amusinglittle aspect of it, but because
of traffic and traffic lights,we we eventually lost our bloke,
but the taxi driver actuallygot onto the base and spoke to
(23:41):
them and said where's this taxigone?
And he led us to a hotel thatbordered the motorway that would
take you to Holland if you hada car.
So we pulled up in the taxi tosee our man walking up the hotel
steps into this taxi.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
So this is obviously a prearranged point that he's
now been told to go to yeah yepon the way to bruges.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
The investigators had got hold of some friendlies
that they'd met on previousoperations that were part of the
drugs and police in bruges, andthey actually came out, so we
managed to get rid of the taxidriver.
We then sat outside the hotelcovertly saw our man come out he
walked up and down the street acouple of times and as he was
(24:25):
walking back in, a dutchregistered car drove into the
car park.
My man went to the back andwalked out with one of those,
you know, those big nylonlaundry bags that are red and
white yeah, one of those and itwas obviously fairly weighty.
So we're now thinking that he'sobviously got the handover of
what was meant to go in a truckin holland when, if should he
(24:46):
have got there, still didn'tknow whether it was cash or
drugs, assumed it was drugs.
But the belgian authoritiesaren't allowed to just go on.
We think it's this.
They have to go to a judge andget permission to, or they
present the circumstances andthe evidence that we've got up
to date, and the judge then says, okay, well, you can go and
arrest him and see what you'vegot.
So the Dutch car left the hotelwe sent, in fact, myself and my
(25:08):
colleague in the car with theBelgian copper went herring off
up the motorway after it to atleast get the registration plate
, which we managed to do.
We then passed on to the dutchauthorities.
We then got back to the hotelas the belgian, the bruges
police, had been given theauthority by the judge to go
into the hotel and arrest ourman and search his room.
So the belgian police wereplainclothes and armed, but they
(25:31):
weren't routine.
Well, routinely, they weren'twhat's the word I'm trying to
look for conventionally armed,the guns in waistbands and
things like that.
You, you know it wasn't in aholster, yeah.
And so we had two officers inthe bar with a recording device,
which I won't go into too muchdetails, but it was on the table
recording everything that wenton.
(25:51):
And this Belgian inspectorwalked into the hotel bar,
identified our subject, grabbedhim around the the throat,
pulled his gun from hiswaistband, pointed at his head
and this dark patch appeared atthe pants area of our subject
and he was arrested and castedaway.
So the hotel manager, it turnedout, was very friendly with a
(26:14):
higher up in the Bruges policeand was more than happy to
assist us and told us which roomour man had been in.
And we then went upstairs tothe hotel room with Belgian
police and searched the room andI pulled back the curtain and
there was this bag that we'dseen being taken from the Dutch
car, and we opened it and therewas 13 bricks of cocaine in
(26:34):
there, which were a kilo each,and at the time the value, I
think, was 2.1 million euros,whatever that equates to in
Australian dollars?
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Is that street value or how much he would have paid
for those 13 years that was?
Speaker 2 (26:47):
probably wholesale value.
So that was uncut, fairly purecocaine.
So that would equate toprobably if you cut it, even 25%
.
You're probably looking at 8 to10 million euros.
So it was a fairly substantialseizure.
Yeah, what else happened?
So on the Wednesday our officehad decided, because we hadn't
got to Holland, that they weregoing to send four out with like
(27:09):
a VW transporter.
So at least we had some wheels,we had the ability to dump our
bags and you know they weregoing to bring out a load of
coats that were hanging in theoffice, so that at least we got
some chance of changing ourappearance.
So they left the UK.
On Thursday morning, as we weregetting on the train to go to
Bruges, and after all of thesearch had been done and we'd
(27:29):
found and seized the bag ofcocaine and our man had been
carted off, we still had todebrief.
So we debriefed everything andwe were enjoying a couple of
beers when the guys from the ukarrived in their vw transporter
and enjoyed some beers with whathappened.
What happened to old mate?
He was so on the continentthey're fairly quick in dealing
(27:52):
with things like this and withintwo months he was sentenced
years.
Did he have more time?
Speaker 1 (27:58):
to spend Like.
Was he charged with anythingwhen he went back to the UK?
Speaker 2 (28:03):
I honestly don't know , because that happened in 2014.
So it was about sorry, that'smy front door.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
That's okay.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
So that happened two months before I was due to leave
to come to Australia.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Would the assumption be that that would happen,
though I would imagine.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
So yeah, because there were obviously crimes that
were being committed in the UKwith the rest of the network
that we were investigating.
Yeah, but as a result of himgetting arrested, obviously
words got back to the UK and theother head, honcho, I think he
and the other guy back inEngland were the two main ones
(28:39):
he then went on the run andeventually, a few days later,
his lawyer contacted the policeinvestigators and he gave
himself up eventually because heknew that his time was up.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
His time was up yeah.
That's a very, very full-onstory.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
It was.
Yeah, I mean that's probablyslightly shortened, it was you
know, but that was the best.
Mean, that's probably slightlyshortened, it was you know, but
that was the best job that I wasever involved in because, as I
said earlier, you never knewfrom one day to the next where
you were going to be, what timeyou were going to finish and
where you were going to end upand to have ended up, you know,
in a foreign country with nobackup.
(29:18):
Really, the investigators thatwe had with us did a fantastic
job of kind of contacting theircounterparts in the uk and then
liaising with the bruges policewhen it we got to bruges.
But we were just absolute.
But it was the first operationthat kent police had deployed
abroad.
Yeah, you know, given thatwe're so close to the continent,
(29:38):
it was the first time thesurveillance team had gone
abroad to manage to maintaincontrol of the subject when we
were without, you know,communications.
Realistically, we were almostreverting to the old school hand
signals at times.
Yeah, and my wife might burstinto the room because I've just
heard her come home, that's okay.
So, yeah, no clothes, nocommunications, very little
(30:00):
backup, and although we got thatarticle 40 in place, the
belgians weren't particularlyforthcoming until we got to
bruges.
So, but to top things off, wethen had to get back to brussels
to get the train back toengland and back to london and,
being a friday afternoon, it washeaving.
We couldn't get seats.
We managed to get, I think,four seats on the first train.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Two on the next, which left two or three of us
there.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Yeah, couldn't drive back in a transporter.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
No, that was full with the operatives that had
come out.
So they went back and it got tothe point where we were offered
first class seats for somethinglike $2,000 a go.
It was £1,000 each to upgradeto first class, which, as much
as we've done a good job, I'mnot sure management would have
been too keen.
So we ended up in what's calledthe sin bin, which is where the
coppers sit when they'retransporting prisoners.
(30:54):
So one of the seats wasbasically just a bench and
extremely uncomfortable andthere was three of us and we
basically just rotated it.
Every half hour We'd changeseats.
How long is the train trip?
It was about two hours 20minutes, fair enough.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Well, that wasn't too bad.
That's a great outcome.
It was a fantastic operation bythe sounds of things.
A couple of things I sort ofwant to go over, but I guess one
of the things I want to talkabout is if someone came to you
for advice to join the job, whatcrucial trait do you think
someone needs to join the joband what advice would?
Speaker 2 (31:30):
you give them Difficult in this day and age
when there's so many leaving,but there's still plenty of good
people out there that do wantto join.
Yeah, you know, you've just gotto be open to experience
different things.
I think being honest andtrustworthy is one of the
biggest traits you can have,because if you can't be honest
with yourself, then you know,and your colleagues, then you're
(31:55):
not going to be honest withwhat you're preparing for court,
and that's where a lot ofthings fall down and I think you
need some life experiencebefore you join the police.
These kids that are joining at18, who come from school and
maybe had a summer job doingsomething somewhere I don't
think Stan's in good stead and Iwork at the police academy in
(32:18):
Perth now and I look at some ofthe kids that come through and I
just I really I don't fear forthem, but I wonder how they're
going to react when they gothrough the first domestic and
some big brute the bloke that's,you know, 50 odd years old
turns around to them and sayswhat the fuck are you telling me
what to do when you're 18?
You've never been married,you've never experienced, you
know, a relationship, you know,so you've got to be prepared for
(32:41):
, for that aspect of it.
But go out and get some lifeexperience before you, before
you join it might seem it mightseem, gucci, it might seem
exciting, but the chances areit's not going to be exciting.
You're going to be snowed underwith case files and court
paperwork and training courseson the computer that come out
left, right and center.
But go and have some lifeexperience first.
(33:03):
Go and enjoy yourself for a fewyears before you commit to
potentially what could be a 30plus year career and, and part
of that is learn to understandpeople.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
I think as as well.
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Definitely, and I think the big problem these days
is that, especially in WaypoleI don't know what it is like
around the rest of the country,but everything's done on the
phones these days, which isgreat for the kids because they
can use them better than I evercould.
But the trouble is they're headdown in the phone.
They haven't got that 360, youknow.
Appreciation of what's goingaround them.
(33:35):
You know they're not going tosee someone, that's coming to
them.
This is what we call it, they'renot going to see the smack that
comes from the side of the head, or you know, because they are
too busy head down in the phone.
So you know again, it's greathaving technology that works for
you, but you've still got toretain that situational
appreciation, as you say.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Yeah, you, but you've still got to retain that
situational appreciation, as yousay.
Yeah, no, this is very true.
I want to circle back tosomething that we were talking
about.
So we were talking about, youknow, the whole respect thing
and the impact of what you'veseen and things like that.
You're coming to an end of theend of your policing career.
Yeah, do you have any concernspersonally in regards to this
(34:16):
transition to the next stage ofyour career and coping with that
?
Now I probably know a littlebit more because you've had some
conversations with Nabeel aboutyour wife transitioning out and
all that sort of stuff, etc.
But do you sort of go, oh, whathappens if this doesn't work?
Or you know that sort of thing.
(34:37):
Do you have any concerns thatyou may suffer from PTSD and
that may be something that's youknow could contribute in an
organization, or I get youworking with your wife, but you
might not always't understand itand doesn't doesn't sort of
have that back?
Speaker 2 (34:57):
I think the biggest thing for me leaving is kind of
the not anxiety, but it's thatleaving something that you've
known for what will have beenthe best part of 27 years when I
eventually go.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Sorry about the doorbell is it cookie week or
something, is it?
Speaker 2 (35:13):
I've no idea what it is and the wife's should have
been home anyway.
But having done something formore than half of my life and
it's been the same thing,whether it's been surveillance,
general duties, training thatI'm doing at the academy now
it's still been in the police,family, yep, and walking away
from that.
You know, apart from anythingelse, it's guaranteed paycheck
(35:36):
every two weeks unless I dosomething really stupid and mess
up.
Yep, you know I'm going to beresponsible for not just my
family and my wife's business.
You know we're jointlyresponsible for that, but we've
got something like 50 employeesnow, yeah, so we're responsible
for those and it's a big weightto to carry, you know,
(35:56):
especially in these days when atouch with covid seems to have
although it's rampant again,certainly over here, it's not
had the same impact as it did,you know, four years ago, when
everyone was housebound forseven days.
Schools were shutting.
It seems to just be kind of thenorm these days that people get
on with it.
Yep, I do think I'm going tomiss that thrill of the chase.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
Okay, yeah, thrill of the chase.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
The camaraderie.
You know the enjoyment you get,but I won't miss, you know, the
paperwork.
I've gone on about that already, Although what I'm going to be
doing more is probably morepaperwork.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
But, it's.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
You know the motivation for us is to make our
business succeed and you knowwe give employment to 50 local
women.
They're all women that work inthe canteen at the moment, you
know.
So that's our motivation, youknow, and the feedback that
we're getting from the schoolsthat we're in, especially one
(36:55):
that we've just opened recently,you know, is great and is a
great motivator.
I'm not going to miss seeingthe more gruesome side of things
and dealing with the idiots andthe arseholes that you do in
policing Touchwood we don't seemto have too many in the canteen
operations.
Well, that's good.
In the canteen operations, well, that's good.
(37:16):
As far as PTSD, I think I'vespoken to you briefly about what
happened with my wife and Iknow she's happy to speak with
you at some point in the future,that'd be great.
But having gone through PTSDwith her, what she suffers and I
know PTSD varies from person toperson yeah, even given what
I've seen, I do have flashbacksto things, but it doesn't affect
(37:39):
me for more than maybe half anhour.
Yeah, there's one that willstick with me to the end of my
days and that was a six-year-oldbaby that I had to do
mouth-to-mouth on.
Yeah, and that does, if I thinkabout it for too long, it does
affect me.
So, yes, and that does, if Ithink about it for too long, it
does affect me.
So, yes, I have got ptsd andI've kept the card that the mum
(38:00):
wrote to us after the incident.
Yeah, and again, that'ssomething that I will keep
forever, forever.
Yeah, I won't ever be able tolet that go.
And that was it was over here inwa fairly early on in my
service over here, and that wasone of those where you go home
and you just give you certainlyyour kids a big hug.
Yeah, and that's when Kate,with her experience of PTSD,
(38:21):
just kind of when the kids hadgone to bed, sat me down and we
talked through it and she went.
You know I'm always here, as Ihad been for her when she went
through her PTSD.
But, yeah, what Kate wentthrough was is something else
and I'll let you talk to herabout that.
But having gone through thatprocess with her, I think it's
helped me deal with issues thatI've encountered and other than
(38:46):
you know.
A few flashbacks and certainlythat situation with the
six-year-old I don't reallydwell on things too much, yeah,
so I count myself lucky that ithasn't affected me much more
than that and yeah, no, there'svery like, I guess one of the
one of the things you've touchedon there, and this is something
that I ask everyone in regardsto.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
If you're feeling, if people are listening to this
and they go, you know what I canrelate to, that I'm feeling
that way, or or I've got thesethings what's the one bit of
advice that you would givesomeone in that situation?
And I think you've spoken a lotabout when you were talking
about, yeah, with your wifethere, but yeah, yeah don't
bottle it up.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
yeah, just don't bottle it up, because I think if
you do, then it just becomes abigger and bigger, bigger issue
in your own head, to the pointwhere it can start to cause
issues.
Yep, and talk to somebody,whether that's a professional
therapist, a colleague at workthat you trust and you get on
with and that was either youknow at the job with you or
(39:45):
knows what you're going through,or you know you feel
comfortable talking to or go andsee your GP and tell them how
you're feeling, because we knowhow big a problem mental health
issues are these days,particularly for emergency
services, not just the police.
There's other emergencyservices out there that deal
with as gruesome situations aswe do that affect them.
(40:09):
Yep, but yeah, the mentalhealth side of things and it's
not just in the emergencyservices, you know, it's right
across society.
Yes, you know the push forpeople to talk to people I think
is right that it is getting theattention that it is.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
No, and that's very good advice.
All right, look, what we mightdo is wrap it up there.
I really appreciate you openingup and having a conversation
with us about your time in thepolice and obviously some of
these other things.
What I'll do before we wrap upis I will leave the last comment
to you, oh no pressure.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
I just think you've got to enjoy your life, however
that comes, and if you do findyourself struggling, please talk
to somebody.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
Very, very good advice.
All right, Greg, thank you forjoining us.
To everyone else, thank you forlistening to Behind the Thin
Blue Line.
If you're a current or formerpolice officer and you would
like to tell your story or talkabout what you do, then please
email me atwhisperintheshadowspodcast at
gmailcom.
Thank you for your time and wewill catch you next time.
(41:22):
Thank you for joining me onbehind the thin blue line, where
I have conversations withcurrent and former police
officers and they get to telltheir stories.
I hope you've enjoyed thatepisode.
In the next episode we'll againexplore the human side of
policing through moreconversations with police
officers from around the world.
Please make sure you subscribeto the podcast so you never miss
(41:44):
an episode.
Lastly, if you're a current orformer police officer, I would
love to chat to you about yourexperiences or, if you're
feeling dangerous, tell yourstories on my podcast.
Please get in contact by myemail, which is
whisperintheshadowspodcast atgmailcom.
I look forward to you joiningme next week.
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