April 24, 2025 • 37 mins
This week we discuss Christina Marie Chapman and the scheme she helped perpetuate that brought workers into I.T. positions for U.S. companies. The only issue is that these workers allegedly had stolen identities and were actually taking jobs to steal secrets and funnel money into North Korean weapon's programs.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:03):
Wall Street veteran Bernard Madoff has been arrested and
charged with running a $50 billion Ponzi scheme.
Congress wants to know what caused the Enron meltdown and.
While the collective range currently is focused on
Worldcom. Tyco CEO Dennis Koslowski was
convicted of looting hundreds ofmillions of dollars.
This is one of the biggest fraudcases ever.
(00:23):
Their president is a crook. Well, I'm not a crook.
Find out more on this week's episode of White Collar's Red
Hands. The facts in today's episode are
based on an indictment and an ongoing investigation, so all
claims are purely allegations. Have you ever had an opportunity
fall into your lap? Have you ever had an offer that
(00:46):
seemed too good to refuse? Have you ever taken it?
Did it change your life for the better or the worse?
Today, on Season 19, Episode 1 of White Collar's Red Hands, we
dive into the story of ChristinaChapman, a woman who aided one
of America's biggest enemies to line her own pockets.
An innocent offer ended up beinga deal with a dictator.
(01:10):
Find out what happened on today's episode of White
Collar's Red Hands. OK, she worked in government.
What's the big deal? A bunch of people do.
Yeah, it's fair. It's fair.
That's fair. Well, not not quite as many
anymore, but. Yeah, yeah, a couple 1000 people
no longer work for the government.
Yeah, you know, downsizing. You know how?
(01:32):
Yeah, yeah, I know how it is. Yeah.
How it goes Downsizing an entirecountry happens.
It it is just, you know, just just like the normal thing to
do. Yeah, just like I'm.
So I'm sure that this story is just going to be a bunch of
normal stuff, you know, definitely not any dealings with
natural enemies of the United. States.
Not at all, no. Nothing crazy like that.
(01:54):
No, nothing crazy. So sorry, sorry guys, you're
you're in for a really boring. Episode of that, Yeah, Sorry,
our first episode of this seasonis just going to be a real
snooze fest. Yeah, we planned it that way.
So if you were looking for something interesting.
You shouldn't have come here. OK, no, actually please, please.
Actually. Please actually please see
listening. That was a joke.
Please, please I I heard 1000 Spotify apps closing all at
(02:17):
once. Yeah.
Well, on that note, welcome to another episode of White
Collar's Red Hands. I'm Kashawn and I'm Nina.
We are so excited to be here. Episode 1 of the 19th season.
Season 19. Yes, baby.
Oh, I actually have an update. Oh yes.
So we did an episode earlier in the year, I think.
(02:39):
Was it last season about Sean Kingston?
Oh yeah. Yes.
So he and his mother were found guilty on all counts of their
federal wire fraud. Their sentencing has not been
scheduled yet, but they are guilty on all counts.
(03:01):
So they're going to be going to jail, which sucks.
Does it suck? I mean, they did it.
For him, it sucks. Oh yeah.
For he's like, damn all. No more beautiful girls.
No. Anyways, Christina Marie
Chapman, just an all American girl who resided in Litchfield
(03:22):
Park, AZ I. Lived in Arizona, I don't even
know where the hell that is. I don't know.
In March of 2020, Chapman got a message on LinkedIn.
The message was asking her if she was willing to be the face
of their company in America and help them get their overseas
workers IT jobs in the US Chapman agreed to this and she
(03:44):
got right to work. Chapman helped this company gain
employment for their employees all over the US.
No one's cold calling you on LinkedIn to be literally the
ambassador for a company that's crazy.
And like, unless you're well known, who the heck's reaching
out to you and your LinkedIn inbox being like?
Hey, I know. Hey.
Do you do you want to be the newbrand ambassador for for edible
(04:06):
underwear? No, well, she definitely knew.
I mean, she definitely had an ITbackground.
She definitely knew what she wasstill like doing.
So do a lot of people. Yeah, who knows how many people
they reached out to? Yeah, this is and she bit took
the bait. She's responded to an in mail
message. She was like, what's this?
Which in mail is like the right,Yeah, like the cold call
emailing service that we did this, yeah.
(04:27):
Yeah, but you know what? She was good at her job because
with her help, the employees were able to gain employment at
top companies in the US. Now, this seems like a good
deal. The company was able to get
their employees secured with employment, and Chapman gets a
cut for helping people obtain jobs.
Win win, right? However, that LinkedIn message
(04:50):
may have been more sinister thanit appeared.
When Christina Chapman got that LinkedIn message, she initially
had no idea who was lurking behind the screen, and it was
none other than the Democratic People's Republic of Korea,
known to us or better known as North Korea.
(05:12):
North Korea has been a hot topicof conversation since the
Forgotten War ended in 1953. Now, if you are not familiar
with North Korea, I'm just goingto give a very, very, very brief
overview history of it just so you know why this is bad.
North Korea has been in the newsa lot since 2016.
(05:34):
They're one of the world's most isolated, if not the most
isolated countries. Not a whole lot is known about
the day-to-day happenings of North Koreans because, frankly,
their government doesn't allow us to know.
They probably don't have bulgogithough, so they're already.
I have heard though that they have pretty good food.
(05:55):
No food. The food that they do have is
pretty good. Or just like wheat?
Yeah, noodles. And even like, not a lot.
They don't have a lot of food. They don't have a lot of food.
They had a barely bad famine in the 1990s.
They're having a really bad famine now.
It's pretty, pretty bad. The Korean Peninsula has been
(06:15):
divided for as long as recent memory.
The country had been divided after World War 2.
Russia took 1/2 of the peninsula, the US took the other
half. In 1948, Kim Il Sung made a
movement to unite the two Koreasand thus caused the Korean War.
(06:36):
Once the Korean War was settled,A demilitarization zone was
formed making a making a divide between North and South Korea.
Kim Illinois Sung took over as leader of North Korea and his
his family is still in power to this day.
His grandson Kim Jong Illinois is now now resides as the leader
(06:57):
of the North Korean people. North Korea has changed
tremendously since Kim Jong Illinois has taken power.
A lot of the old policies have been thrown out the window and
he's really focused on North Korea's military power.
A lot of the resources go into nuclear energy or nuclear
(07:18):
weapons. Fun fact, Kim Jong Illinois
loves Swiss cheese and demands that it be on the premises
wherever he goes. He looks like he loves.
Swiss. He looks like he loves Swiss
cheese. He kind.
Of looks like if a potato becamesentient.
Yes, or more like a tomato. But, but I mean, he's very, he's
round and brown, so. Yeah, I mean, he's Yeah, I'm
(07:40):
just he has more tomato energy. Like he has the energy of aroma
tomato. Just like, look, I want to take
it off my sandwich. Man, I am not following what you
are putting down at all. This is making no sense to.
Me, I don't like tomato. I love aroma tomato so.
So this is a very personal analogy for you specifically.
OK, a warm aroma tomato. That's the energy he.
(08:03):
Is a warm aroma tomato. Yes, he's also very good friends
with Dennis Rodman. The only person who's a really
good friends with Dennis Rodman.Yeah, I mean, it checks out.
It checks out. Dennis Rodman has also
accidentally leaked some secretsabout the North Korean dictator.
He's a fucking basketball player, Yeah, He's not gonna.
(08:25):
He's not trained to keep secrets.
No, Yeah, we actually like, don't know how many children Kim
Jong Illinois has. We suspect that there's three
the. Belly keeps it keeps them from
getting in it. You would think, but it's like.
It's like bumper cars. You.
Yeah, you would think, but there's a will, there's a way.
(08:47):
But then like Dennis Rodman accidentally spilled that like
one of his children is a girl and that had not been previously
known. But any who I had an obsession
with North Korea for a while. So I could go on about this
forever. But I just wanted to give a
little bit of an overview of thecountry before diving into
(09:10):
today's episode. So very, very secretive.
It's not a good, you know, the people there just don't really
have a very fruitful and plentiful life.
I'm sure they do find joy in their day-to-day lives because
that is all they know. But as long as there's a camera
pointed at them, they look like they are filled with joy.
Yes, they really, really love their leaders.
(09:31):
They. Have to.
They have to, you know. So it's no secret that North
Korea has a complicated relationship with the rest of
the world. Since 2003, North Korea has been
sanctioned by the United Nationsbecause of its expansion and
testing of its nuclear weapons program.
And North Korea, they fucking love nukes, dude.
They, they love nukes. It was very stressful when I was
(09:54):
living in Japan in 2017 because we thought that we were going to
be nuked all the time. He was like Kim Jong Illinois
was like threatening to nuke us constantly.
I, I actually, we had a nuke alarm that would go off if we
thought a nuke was coming. And I had 4 minutes.
That meant that when that alarm went off, it's like it's coming
in 4 minutes and I had 4 minutesto take shelter.
(10:18):
Take shelter means come to turds.
I'm just going to die. No, but I had a nuke bag just in
case. I survived and I my plan was to
run down into the subway stationbecause I was a 2 minute run to
the subway station. There we go.
Definitely, definitely some Fallout activity.
That's a video game. Other people.
(10:38):
Will get it, don't worry. I don't know.
But anyways, go down to the I had water and snacks and a deck
of cards and you know, maybe going to survive.
Yeah, that'll keep you. That'll keep you busy.
During. During the nuclear.
Apocalypse, you know. But anyway, I never had to
survive this, but it was a little nerve wracking.
Anyways, because of its nuclear program, the United States has
(10:59):
cut North Korea from its financial system, and the
business that Americans can do with North Korea is extremely
limited. We're the only ones that can
have nukes. That's right.
How dare you. You guys are going to be evil.
You guys are going to be evil with them.
We were just going to be do super cool shit with our nukes.
Yeah, duh. Have you heard of Hiroshima and
(11:21):
Nagasaki? That was cool.
Oh Jesus Christ. That was the coolest thing we've
ever done with a nuke. Being alienated from the rest of
the world has made North Korea really creative with how they
earn their money. So this is where Christina
Chapman and other similar schemes come in.
The FBI discovered that in 2022,North Korea dispatched thousands
(11:43):
of IT workers around the world. And the money that they earn
goes directly to North Korea's weapons programs.
So what they do is say that theyare not in North Korea.
Sometimes they're saying that they're American or they're
working somewhere else. They will work remotely using
VPNSVPNVPSS and 3rd country IP addresses to fool companies into
(12:08):
hiring them remotely. All the while, the salary that
they're earning goes straight into the pockets of the North
Korean government. You tell me, Doug and IT who
just created, who just moved ourservers over, is funding the
North Korean government. He could be, and if you don't
know what AVPN or these other things are, they essentially are
(12:29):
something that you can put onto your computer where you fool the
server into thinking that you'rein a different location than you
actually are. So I I will give you.
And you're going to. I will give you a. $100 if you
can tell me what VPN stands. Fuck virtual.
(12:49):
Oh shit, I even looked it up like I read it.
Oh, I don't know. Yeah, it's Virtual Private
Network, so you at least got. It I had virtual and I had
network, I couldn't remember what.
Private makes sense, yeah. It does it.
It felt like it wasn't going to be that simple.
Anyway, you can send me that $100 whenever you.
(13:10):
Give it to. I did not agree to that.
Oh yeah, I was a bet. Run the.
Run the tape back. OK, anyway, so you know, if I'm
in Italy and I want to access American Netflix, I can use AVPN
to make Netflix think that I am actually in America so that I
can access the American version of Netflix.
(13:31):
And today's episode is actually sponsor.
But I'm joking, we don't even have those sponsors.
Everyone's got the sponsors. We don't have to.
No, not yet. But these people are working for
North Korea and usually working under North Korea's munitions
industry department, which is the department that overseas
ballistic missiles, weapons productions and research and
(13:53):
development. So since 2020 that we know of,
this has probably been going on longer.
Some of these IT workers have been rebuilded, like I said,
work remotely for U.S. companies.
They do this by stealing the identity of U.S. citizens and
applying for remote positions. And there were even files
obtained like when this investigation was going on, they
(14:15):
found like information that theywere using sources to like help
write cover letters, resumes, how to interview, how to get a
resident card, and like how to find job postings.
They're just not. They're not just obtaining jobs
and shit at shitty companies. Some of them have obtained
positions in Fortune 500 companies, and they will receive
(14:37):
laptops from these companies andother software that gives them
the ability to see into the US companies.
And since they're not actually citizens, often their income is
not being reported correctly to the IRS or to Social Security.
How did they get them shipped? Oh, I'm going to tell you.
Oh, OK. Now, North Korea has not been
(14:58):
able to do this on their own. They have had the help of some
US nationals to help pull off the scheme just like Christina
Chapman. With the help of Christina
Chapman and Chapman and some other unnamed Co conspirators,
the North Korean government was able to pull off their scheme by
infiltrating the US workforce. The overseas IT workers, like I
(15:20):
just said, stole the identities of American citizens, or in some
cases convinced these American citizens to sell them their
identities so that they could have used them to apply for
jobs. They would then validate the
information under all accounts paid for by Chapman.
And like I said earlier, they weren't going for random little
(15:41):
companies. They're applying for Fortune 500
companies in all fields. We're talking technology, food
delivery, many car manufacturing, aerospace, media,
retail, you name it, they want it with their fake identities
and knowledge about the positions. the IT workers would
then apply, would have Chapman'shelp, and then they would get
(16:04):
the positions. What's crazy is the job market
really hasn't been that great since 2020, and so the fact that
all these people are able to gethired is a little bit nuts.
Yeah, what the heck, I was in a 5 month job search before.
Yeah, 'cause there's so many, especially the remote jobs,
'cause there's so many people trying to get remote jobs, but
they're all being outsourced unknowingly to North Korea.
(16:24):
I mean, I guess they were already lying.
They could probably just put on their like, Oh yeah, I have
really great knowledge of all these like coding languages or
something that are just putting everything in the ChatGPT.
Although I know that coders thatalso went to school for it are
also just putting it in the ChatGPTS so.
So once they got hired, the IT workers would have their
(16:46):
employer would send them issued laptops for the company and they
would send them to Chapman's addresses because she actually
had an address in Arizona and inMinnesota.
I don't know for certain whetherthey just sent them to Arizona
or if they sent them to both, but they would send them to.
(17:08):
They would use Chapman's address.
However, Chapman would either keep the computers at her home
or and she would log into them almost daily and then the This
would allow the IT workers to connect their computers remotely
from North Korea I. Was going to say they could
download like Teamviewer or? Something, well, they were, they
(17:28):
told them remotely the way that they would do this.
They actually were using the application any desk.
Oh yeah, that's that's another one.
It's the same thing. Yeah, I've never, I did not even
know what that was until this episode.
But yes, they would use any desk.
Yeah, basically lets you controla computer from another
computer. Yeah, and she was quoted saying
(17:50):
at 1.0, I use any desk every day.
This is what the FB, So what Chapman was doing, the FBI would
later call a laptop farm and it I mean like literally it was a
laptop farm. She had so many laptops at her
house I'm not even sure where she put them all.
(18:10):
And if Chapman didn't keep the laptops in her home she would
ship them to other Co conspirators who were in China.
And so then either China would get because I guess China and
North Korea have are able to send things to each other.
So sometimes they would send them to North Korea or they
(18:31):
would keep it there. Now, if you're wondering how
these employees were getting paid, when the IT workers would
get paid, they would send their checks.
They did use direct deposit sometimes, but they would also
get their checks sent to Chapman's home, where she would
then forge the signature of the person whose identity was being
stolen and deposit the check into multiple accounts.
(18:54):
Then after depositing the check,the money would be transferred
overseas to Chinese accounts, where it was then deposited into
North Korean accounts. You cannot just Western Union
money over to Pyongyang. Oh.
Thank God, that's actually good to know.
I had to send $1000 over there in the coming weeks so.
Yeah, now you know how to do. It.
I'll send the money. Make sure you send it to China
(19:16):
1st and then over to North Korea.
Yeah. All right.
Thank you. Now, you know, Now some question
if Chapman knew that she was working with North Korea because
they were like, oh, you know, she didn't actually know who is
behind that message. And like, she didn't know who
(19:36):
she was talking to. Like she might not have realized
that it was North Korea. Like she knew she knew she
wasn't it was no one who was American, but like, she might
not have known it was North Korea.
And you know, regardless of who messaged her that day in 2020,
even if she didn't know she was working alongside the North
Korean government, she knew whatshe was doing was wrong.
(19:59):
Chapman knew that the IT workerswere taking the identities of
American citizens and falsifyingdocuments in exchange.
She had an exchange with one of the IT workers and she said.
In the future I hope you guys find other people to do your
physical I nines. These are federal documents.
I will send them for you, but you have to have someone else do
(20:19):
the paperwork. I can go to federal prison for
falsifying federal documents. Yeah.
So. Obviously, I don't think you
could do this and be like, yeah,well, like keep 150 laptops in
my home all open so that a bunchof people around the world can
get into U.S. companies. But I think it's all on the up
and up. Yeah.
Like, no, no, you know the JD. You know, it's absolutely
(20:44):
sketchy. And she did keep about like,
like you said, it was a couple 100 computers in her home at a
time. Her energy bill must have.
Just, oh, I cannot even imagine.Roof the roof.
I can't even imagine what her bill would be.
The like power strips I'm assuming everywhere.
It was actually probably an electrical hazard.
Yeah, if that, if there's one thing you can take away from
(21:05):
this at this episode today. All right, Don't Daisy chain
power strips. No, don't.
All there if there's one thing you take.
Daisy chain. That's what it's called.
Aware of fire hazard. I forgot that that's what that
was called. She would even assist IT workers
when they were trying to set up meetings with the companies
sometimes. Like Chapman would also be in on
(21:26):
the meeting and then like she would change her name to the
person's name. Like let's the specific example,
the guy's name was Daniel and hewas having an issue logging into
a Zoom meeting. So she also logged into the Zoom
meeting, but she also put that she was Daniel.
And then she told him like what to say.
So that there were it was OK that there were two Daniels and
(21:48):
I was like, lady, you're sketchyas fuck.
Like she was sketchy. Anyways, although it was
impressive that they were able to sneak their way into Fortune
500 companies, North Korea decided this was not enough and
attempted to get hired at government agencies as well.
On three separate occasions, IT workers infiltrated the
(22:09):
government to access positions in high level agencies.
One IT worker, who went by the stolen name of Scion W, got a
position with the Immigration and Customs Agency, commonly
known as ICE. The position was remote and he
used Chapman's address to put onfile.
(22:29):
After four months of at the agency he was contacted due to
quote identity issues and he wasasked for his passport or birth
certificate. They also required that he get
fingerprinted. When he failed to do so, he was
let go from the agency. Another IT worker who claimed
their name was Royd L Royd. Royd, OK was staffed at the
(22:54):
Federal Protective Service or FPS.
In April of 2023, Royd was provided paperwork that he would
need to begin employment, including another fingerprint.
When he got the information, he informed FPS that he had a death
in the family and would not be able to be contacted for a week.
Once that week passed, he resigned from the position on
May 8th, 2023, claiming that he needed to stay with his family
(23:18):
during this tumultuous time. 1/3IT contractor who was using the
stolen name of Dong XI They're. Choosing terrible.
Names, I know they're really like wild names.
There were there were some like Dan's and stuff and Scion.
I've never heard. I've heard Zion, not Scion.
(23:38):
They're yeah, they're all, all of these are just like, maybe
that was their thing. They're like, we go so weird
that people would be like, there's no way someone choose
this. Well, you know what was so
funny? One of them like chose the name
Darius like this. They stole the name Darius.
And they were like, basically like, they had to, like, quit
the job because the person wanted to, like, do an like,
(24:01):
wanted them to turn on their camera because they were like,
you're being sketchy. And they were like, I can't turn
on my camera because I'm an Asian.
I'm not. I can't be an like, they're not
going to believe I'm Darius. That's fair.
Yeah. That's fair.
I I feel like you just turn it on.
You were like, what the fuck? And then you were like, Oh yeah,
I don't know, they might. My parents really like the
American culture or something. Right.
(24:22):
Then you you could talk. Your way out you could talk your
way out of. It but he was smart.
Enough, but I also think that like on the application or
something that he put that he was black.
Oh yeah, it. Was like, well that would be a.
Yeah. And then he was like, OK, I
can't be on camera because I'm North Korean.
So Dongsy, he was working for the General Service
Administration. And also all of these government
agencies also had links to the Department of Homeland Security.
(24:45):
So yeah, this was a major issue.Dong provided that his address
was Chapman's address and listedher as his spouse.
He attended a few meetings, but it was clear that he couldn't
properly communicate with the people that he was having the
meeting with, and he also attended several meetings where
he did not speak. The company also, well GGSA also
(25:11):
had a really hard time getting ahold of him and so they let him
go in October of 2nd of 2023. Helping the IT workers was not
the only thing that Chapman did that was sketchy.
She would also deposit and transfer paychecks to different
accounts. Like I was talking about a
little bit earlier. There were several instances
(25:32):
where Chapman would message various people about the money
that she was sending and who sheshould send it to.
When Chapman became concerned with the amount of money that
she was sending, she said quote.And do you know what happens
when bank my bank account gets flagged by the federal
government for processing too many large payments and sending
them overseas? I get into trouble and I go to
(25:54):
prison. I have to make sure I'm doing it
the right way. Wow.
She really portended her own prison sentence multiple times.
She literally said like, and shewas like, Oh yeah, I totally
know what I'm doing. It's.
Like guys, you're going to get me in trouble.
Another time she had an issue depositing a check because the
(26:15):
names didn't match up on an on the accounts and they exchanged
between her and the IT worker. So these these were just so
funny. So I had to, or I thought they
were funny so that's why I'm including them.
But this is the IT worker. Oh, wait.
OK, so basically, no, no, no, let me.
I don't want to do this whole exchange.
Actually, in the moment I was like, yeah, but then now I'm
(26:38):
like, this is too long. We can do a dramatic reading.
Yes, yes, let's do a dramatic reading.
Do you want to be Chapman? I'll be Chapman and UBWH.
Does WH What's? What's my background?
What's my motivation? Your motivation is that you are
trying to get money for your missile program or your boss is
probably going to kill you and you're not going to get any of
(26:59):
this money, but your family's life is on the line.
OK, am I North Korean? Yes.
OK, I won't do the accent. They're saying they sent another
paper check on 2/3. Any paper check you received?
And would you find someone who can help with physical paper
checks? I will pay 30% fee if needed.
(27:22):
The problem is that Irving B isn't real person's name.
It would be great if you could spare me just a few minutes to
discuss about the paper checks. That's probably why it didn't go
through the bank as the name is fake.
I could go to prison for fraud for that.
So Irving is not a real person at all.
(27:44):
So like it's obvious that based on these exchanges that she had,
like we just said, like she knewwhat she was doing was wrong.
She knew she could go to jail and she knew that she could have
severe consequences. And the amount of money that
Chapman was moving around was astounding.
In one account alone, she deposited over $900,000.
(28:05):
Like we're talking, I mean, we said that or I said these
positions that people were getting were in Fortune 500
companies. They were getting paid a lot of
money. Yeah, IT and IT can make a lot
of money, yes. Like some of these people were
making over $300,000 a year, so she was not.
(28:26):
This wasn't just chunk change, although the IT workers were
making a ton of money at variouscompanies.
Chapman herself was making a pretty penny for orchestrating
at all. Chapman charged the IT workers
for rent of the laptops and other fees associated with
running a laptop farm, which included shipment, Technical
(28:49):
Support, logging into the accounts, storage, connecting to
company networks, etcetera. As hard as it would be to run
this type of operation, Chapman was not completely covert in her
operations when it came to payment.
She did reveal which accounts the money should be deposited
into because she knew the feds were watching some of her
(29:11):
accounts. All right.
The entire operation blew up in May 2024 when Christina Chapman
was arrested in her Arizona home.
In total, the scheme generated over $17 million, Which I
remember was all falsely reported to the IRS and the
(29:33):
Social Security office. Over 70 U.S. citizens had their
identity stolen. So they would steal someone's
identity and also use it for multiple jobs.
Oh, OK. Yeah, they wouldn't just use it
for one job, They would use it for multiple jobs.
A hard working person? Yep.
Of course, Chapman did not operate it alone.
In this, she worked alongside Ukrainian man.
(29:55):
I'm going to try to say this, right, Alexander Didenko.
And then these three next three names are aliases.
They're believed to be North Korean.
They may also be Chinese people who are operating in this, but
it's Jiho Han, Chun, Ji Jin and Horan Zhu.
So they all are in trouble. But only Alexander and Christina
(30:19):
were arrested. Well, actually, so he's.
In America. Well, so actually he's in Poland
and they're trying to extradite him.
So TBD on that. But she was the only one in
America. Those involved with the scheme
are being charged with conspiracy to defraud the United
States, conspiracy to commit wire fraud, conspiracy to commit
(30:41):
bank fraud, fraud, aggravated identity theft, conspiracy to
commit identity fraud, conspiracy to launder monetary
instruments operating as an unlicensed money transferring
business, and unlawful employment of aliens.
So the three people whose names were aliases, the John Doe's,
(31:02):
they're charged, also charged with conspiracy to commit money
laundering. Chapman's trial will begin on
June 16th, 2024. It is thought that she will get
7 to 9 years for her crimes. However, there were some sources
when she was initially arrested that I was finding when she was
initially arrested, they were saying she could face up to 97
(31:24):
years. The seven to nine years is
telling me that she has been cooperative.
So I think it would be in our best interest to be cooperative.
I would be too. You kidding me?
I got no allegiances to people in North Korea.
At that point. I'm like Nope.
Nope. Nope.
Nope. Nope.
Guys, I told you you would get me in trouble and you got me in
(31:44):
trouble. You got me in trouble.
I literally don't wonder. I'm.
Telling them everything about you.
Actually, I'd be worried that they'd Take Me Out in prison.
I don't think they kind of pull out here, really.
Yeah. No, I don't think the North
Koreans are going to be able to execute you in a in an American
prison. Maybe not.
They do not have that kind of influence.
(32:06):
Probably not. A deal with the devil or
dictator put Christina Chapman right into hell.
It's good to note that when you are being contacted by the by an
enemy of your country, it's probably best to block and
report the message to the FBI. Instead, Christina Chapman used
that message to propel herself into wealth and make a
(32:27):
comfortable life for herself. It is interesting that she chose
a life of comfort, making money for a country who cares not for
its people, only for its nuclearpower.
The people of North Korea starveon a daily basis instead of
helping those in need. Christina Chapman took that
opportunity to finance her own lifestyle while stealing the
(32:47):
identities of her own people. In my opinion, seven years will
be too lenient. She won't serve all that either.
I know that's what's crazy. I I actually think she deserves
more, like for aiding an enemy of the United States and then
like screwing so many of your own people over.
(33:08):
Yeah, I'm surprised she didn't like like that they didn't get
her for some sort of like. Treason or.
Yeah, or, or something, something like like aiding a
foreign. Yeah, like a a foreign enemy, an
adversary to the United States. There's got to be something
about that that they did. They just said to defraud, which
is crazy. So that is probably light.
(33:31):
Yes. For her, definitely.
Yeah, it's very interesting. We'll keep you updated when we
in June, when we find out about that trial, we'll see how that
unfolds. I think it'll be pretty
interesting to see how that one all plays out.
It seems like the defense does not have a very solid.
You said they were going to argue like she didn't know.
(33:54):
It seems like they don't have a solid argument for that, so.
I mean, I don't really know how solid her argument is going to
be at all like. If she's cooperating, then she's
probably already agreed to a plea deal.
I I would, I kind of just think you would have to.
Well, yeah. Or that's what they're obviously
that's what they're working towards if she's cooperating.
So yeah. But on that note, if you liked
(34:18):
what you heard and you want more, you can follow us on
social media. We're on facebook.com/white
collars red hands. We're on Twitter at white
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We are on Instagram at white collars under score red hands.
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We're also on YouTube. Go follow us over on that
YouTube. You can watch this in real time
(34:38):
at. Not in real time, we don't.
Do it live well, OK, No. You can watch a video for sure.
Yeah, yeah, in your own real time.
Yeah, Times relative says AlbertEinstein.
So yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, times is just a construct.
Actually, age is just a number anyway.
This is getting worse. Anyway, go watch this on YouTube
(34:59):
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(35:20):
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(35:42):
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I I think it's, yeah, it's probably.
(36:03):
Everything. Well, if you think of an, if you
hear of a white collar Crime Story and you're like, Oh my
gosh. Nina and Kashawn should actually
cover this. You can send it our way.
You can send either DM us or e-mail us at
whitecollarsredhands@gmail.com. Actually, this was like kind of
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(36:23):
So that's yeah. Yeah.
So thanks for thanks for you made one good decision by Yeah,
thanks. Yeah.
Giving us this episode. Yep.
Yeah, it was interesting. So I guess thanks about thanks.
Thanks for that. Anyways, we'll see it.
We'll see you next time on another episode of White
(36:44):
Collars, Red Hands.
Wall Street veteran Bernard Madoff has been arrested and
charged with running a $50 billion Ponzi scheme.
Congress wants to know what caused the Enron meltdown and.
While the collective range currently is focused on
Worldcom. Tyco CEO Dennis Koslowski was
convicted of looting hundreds ofmillions of dollars.
This is one of the biggest fraudcases ever.
(00:23):
Their president is a crook. Well, I'm not a crook.
Find out more on this week's episode of White Collar's Red
Hands. The facts in today's episode are
based on an indictment and an ongoing investigation, so all
claims are purely allegations. Have you ever had an opportunity
fall into your lap? Have you ever had an offer that
(00:46):
seemed too good to refuse? Have you ever taken it?
Did it change your life for the better or the worse?
Today, on Season 19, Episode 1 of White Collar's Red Hands, we
dive into the story of ChristinaChapman, a woman who aided one
of America's biggest enemies to line her own pockets.
An innocent offer ended up beinga deal with a dictator.
(01:10):
Find out what happened on today's episode of White
Collar's Red Hands. OK, she worked in government.
What's the big deal? A bunch of people do.
Yeah, it's fair. It's fair.
That's fair. Well, not not quite as many
anymore, but. Yeah, yeah, a couple 1000 people
no longer work for the government.
Yeah, you know, downsizing. You know how?
(01:32):
Yeah, yeah, I know how it is. Yeah.
How it goes Downsizing an entirecountry happens.
It it is just, you know, just just like the normal thing to
do. Yeah, just like I'm.
So I'm sure that this story is just going to be a bunch of
normal stuff, you know, definitely not any dealings with
natural enemies of the United. States.
Not at all, no. Nothing crazy like that.
(01:54):
No, nothing crazy. So sorry, sorry guys, you're
you're in for a really boring. Episode of that, Yeah, Sorry,
our first episode of this seasonis just going to be a real
snooze fest. Yeah, we planned it that way.
So if you were looking for something interesting.
You shouldn't have come here. OK, no, actually please, please.
Actually. Please actually please see
listening. That was a joke.
Please, please I I heard 1000 Spotify apps closing all at
(02:17):
once. Yeah.
Well, on that note, welcome to another episode of White
Collar's Red Hands. I'm Kashawn and I'm Nina.
We are so excited to be here. Episode 1 of the 19th season.
Season 19. Yes, baby.
Oh, I actually have an update. Oh yes.
So we did an episode earlier in the year, I think.
(02:39):
Was it last season about Sean Kingston?
Oh yeah. Yes.
So he and his mother were found guilty on all counts of their
federal wire fraud. Their sentencing has not been
scheduled yet, but they are guilty on all counts.
(03:01):
So they're going to be going to jail, which sucks.
Does it suck? I mean, they did it.
For him, it sucks. Oh yeah.
For he's like, damn all. No more beautiful girls.
No. Anyways, Christina Marie
Chapman, just an all American girl who resided in Litchfield
(03:22):
Park, AZ I. Lived in Arizona, I don't even
know where the hell that is. I don't know.
In March of 2020, Chapman got a message on LinkedIn.
The message was asking her if she was willing to be the face
of their company in America and help them get their overseas
workers IT jobs in the US Chapman agreed to this and she
(03:44):
got right to work. Chapman helped this company gain
employment for their employees all over the US.
No one's cold calling you on LinkedIn to be literally the
ambassador for a company that's crazy.
And like, unless you're well known, who the heck's reaching
out to you and your LinkedIn inbox being like?
Hey, I know. Hey.
Do you do you want to be the newbrand ambassador for for edible
(04:06):
underwear? No, well, she definitely knew.
I mean, she definitely had an ITbackground.
She definitely knew what she wasstill like doing.
So do a lot of people. Yeah, who knows how many people
they reached out to? Yeah, this is and she bit took
the bait. She's responded to an in mail
message. She was like, what's this?
Which in mail is like the right,Yeah, like the cold call
emailing service that we did this, yeah.
(04:27):
Yeah, but you know what? She was good at her job because
with her help, the employees were able to gain employment at
top companies in the US. Now, this seems like a good
deal. The company was able to get
their employees secured with employment, and Chapman gets a
cut for helping people obtain jobs.
Win win, right? However, that LinkedIn message
(04:50):
may have been more sinister thanit appeared.
When Christina Chapman got that LinkedIn message, she initially
had no idea who was lurking behind the screen, and it was
none other than the Democratic People's Republic of Korea,
known to us or better known as North Korea.
(05:12):
North Korea has been a hot topicof conversation since the
Forgotten War ended in 1953. Now, if you are not familiar
with North Korea, I'm just goingto give a very, very, very brief
overview history of it just so you know why this is bad.
North Korea has been in the newsa lot since 2016.
(05:34):
They're one of the world's most isolated, if not the most
isolated countries. Not a whole lot is known about
the day-to-day happenings of North Koreans because, frankly,
their government doesn't allow us to know.
They probably don't have bulgogithough, so they're already.
I have heard though that they have pretty good food.
(05:55):
No food. The food that they do have is
pretty good. Or just like wheat?
Yeah, noodles. And even like, not a lot.
They don't have a lot of food. They don't have a lot of food.
They had a barely bad famine in the 1990s.
They're having a really bad famine now.
It's pretty, pretty bad. The Korean Peninsula has been
(06:15):
divided for as long as recent memory.
The country had been divided after World War 2.
Russia took 1/2 of the peninsula, the US took the other
half. In 1948, Kim Il Sung made a
movement to unite the two Koreasand thus caused the Korean War.
(06:36):
Once the Korean War was settled,A demilitarization zone was
formed making a making a divide between North and South Korea.
Kim Illinois Sung took over as leader of North Korea and his
his family is still in power to this day.
His grandson Kim Jong Illinois is now now resides as the leader
(06:57):
of the North Korean people. North Korea has changed
tremendously since Kim Jong Illinois has taken power.
A lot of the old policies have been thrown out the window and
he's really focused on North Korea's military power.
A lot of the resources go into nuclear energy or nuclear
(07:18):
weapons. Fun fact, Kim Jong Illinois
loves Swiss cheese and demands that it be on the premises
wherever he goes. He looks like he loves.
Swiss. He looks like he loves Swiss
cheese. He kind.
Of looks like if a potato becamesentient.
Yes, or more like a tomato. But, but I mean, he's very, he's
round and brown, so. Yeah, I mean, he's Yeah, I'm
(07:40):
just he has more tomato energy. Like he has the energy of aroma
tomato. Just like, look, I want to take
it off my sandwich. Man, I am not following what you
are putting down at all. This is making no sense to.
Me, I don't like tomato. I love aroma tomato so.
So this is a very personal analogy for you specifically.
OK, a warm aroma tomato. That's the energy he.
(08:03):
Is a warm aroma tomato. Yes, he's also very good friends
with Dennis Rodman. The only person who's a really
good friends with Dennis Rodman.Yeah, I mean, it checks out.
It checks out. Dennis Rodman has also
accidentally leaked some secretsabout the North Korean dictator.
He's a fucking basketball player, Yeah, He's not gonna.
(08:25):
He's not trained to keep secrets.
No, Yeah, we actually like, don't know how many children Kim
Jong Illinois has. We suspect that there's three
the. Belly keeps it keeps them from
getting in it. You would think, but it's like.
It's like bumper cars. You.
Yeah, you would think, but there's a will, there's a way.
(08:47):
But then like Dennis Rodman accidentally spilled that like
one of his children is a girl and that had not been previously
known. But any who I had an obsession
with North Korea for a while. So I could go on about this
forever. But I just wanted to give a
little bit of an overview of thecountry before diving into
(09:10):
today's episode. So very, very secretive.
It's not a good, you know, the people there just don't really
have a very fruitful and plentiful life.
I'm sure they do find joy in their day-to-day lives because
that is all they know. But as long as there's a camera
pointed at them, they look like they are filled with joy.
Yes, they really, really love their leaders.
(09:31):
They. Have to.
They have to, you know. So it's no secret that North
Korea has a complicated relationship with the rest of
the world. Since 2003, North Korea has been
sanctioned by the United Nationsbecause of its expansion and
testing of its nuclear weapons program.
And North Korea, they fucking love nukes, dude.
They, they love nukes. It was very stressful when I was
(09:54):
living in Japan in 2017 because we thought that we were going to
be nuked all the time. He was like Kim Jong Illinois
was like threatening to nuke us constantly.
I, I actually, we had a nuke alarm that would go off if we
thought a nuke was coming. And I had 4 minutes.
That meant that when that alarm went off, it's like it's coming
in 4 minutes and I had 4 minutesto take shelter.
(10:18):
Take shelter means come to turds.
I'm just going to die. No, but I had a nuke bag just in
case. I survived and I my plan was to
run down into the subway stationbecause I was a 2 minute run to
the subway station. There we go.
Definitely, definitely some Fallout activity.
That's a video game. Other people.
(10:38):
Will get it, don't worry. I don't know.
But anyways, go down to the I had water and snacks and a deck
of cards and you know, maybe going to survive.
Yeah, that'll keep you. That'll keep you busy.
During. During the nuclear.
Apocalypse, you know. But anyway, I never had to
survive this, but it was a little nerve wracking.
Anyways, because of its nuclear program, the United States has
(10:59):
cut North Korea from its financial system, and the
business that Americans can do with North Korea is extremely
limited. We're the only ones that can
have nukes. That's right.
How dare you. You guys are going to be evil.
You guys are going to be evil with them.
We were just going to be do super cool shit with our nukes.
Yeah, duh. Have you heard of Hiroshima and
(11:21):
Nagasaki? That was cool.
Oh Jesus Christ. That was the coolest thing we've
ever done with a nuke. Being alienated from the rest of
the world has made North Korea really creative with how they
earn their money. So this is where Christina
Chapman and other similar schemes come in.
The FBI discovered that in 2022,North Korea dispatched thousands
(11:43):
of IT workers around the world. And the money that they earn
goes directly to North Korea's weapons programs.
So what they do is say that theyare not in North Korea.
Sometimes they're saying that they're American or they're
working somewhere else. They will work remotely using
VPNSVPNVPSS and 3rd country IP addresses to fool companies into
(12:08):
hiring them remotely. All the while, the salary that
they're earning goes straight into the pockets of the North
Korean government. You tell me, Doug and IT who
just created, who just moved ourservers over, is funding the
North Korean government. He could be, and if you don't
know what AVPN or these other things are, they essentially are
(12:29):
something that you can put onto your computer where you fool the
server into thinking that you'rein a different location than you
actually are. So I I will give you.
And you're going to. I will give you a. $100 if you
can tell me what VPN stands. Fuck virtual.
(12:49):
Oh shit, I even looked it up like I read it.
Oh, I don't know. Yeah, it's Virtual Private
Network, so you at least got. It I had virtual and I had
network, I couldn't remember what.
Private makes sense, yeah. It does it.
It felt like it wasn't going to be that simple.
Anyway, you can send me that $100 whenever you.
(13:10):
Give it to. I did not agree to that.
Oh yeah, I was a bet. Run the.
Run the tape back. OK, anyway, so you know, if I'm
in Italy and I want to access American Netflix, I can use AVPN
to make Netflix think that I am actually in America so that I
can access the American version of Netflix.
(13:31):
And today's episode is actually sponsor.
But I'm joking, we don't even have those sponsors.
Everyone's got the sponsors. We don't have to.
No, not yet. But these people are working for
North Korea and usually working under North Korea's munitions
industry department, which is the department that overseas
ballistic missiles, weapons productions and research and
(13:53):
development. So since 2020 that we know of,
this has probably been going on longer.
Some of these IT workers have been rebuilded, like I said,
work remotely for U.S. companies.
They do this by stealing the identity of U.S. citizens and
applying for remote positions. And there were even files
obtained like when this investigation was going on, they
(14:15):
found like information that theywere using sources to like help
write cover letters, resumes, how to interview, how to get a
resident card, and like how to find job postings.
They're just not. They're not just obtaining jobs
and shit at shitty companies. Some of them have obtained
positions in Fortune 500 companies, and they will receive
(14:37):
laptops from these companies andother software that gives them
the ability to see into the US companies.
And since they're not actually citizens, often their income is
not being reported correctly to the IRS or to Social Security.
How did they get them shipped? Oh, I'm going to tell you.
Oh, OK. Now, North Korea has not been
(14:58):
able to do this on their own. They have had the help of some
US nationals to help pull off the scheme just like Christina
Chapman. With the help of Christina
Chapman and Chapman and some other unnamed Co conspirators,
the North Korean government was able to pull off their scheme by
infiltrating the US workforce. The overseas IT workers, like I
(15:20):
just said, stole the identities of American citizens, or in some
cases convinced these American citizens to sell them their
identities so that they could have used them to apply for
jobs. They would then validate the
information under all accounts paid for by Chapman.
And like I said earlier, they weren't going for random little
(15:41):
companies. They're applying for Fortune 500
companies in all fields. We're talking technology, food
delivery, many car manufacturing, aerospace, media,
retail, you name it, they want it with their fake identities
and knowledge about the positions. the IT workers would
then apply, would have Chapman'shelp, and then they would get
(16:04):
the positions. What's crazy is the job market
really hasn't been that great since 2020, and so the fact that
all these people are able to gethired is a little bit nuts.
Yeah, what the heck, I was in a 5 month job search before.
Yeah, 'cause there's so many, especially the remote jobs,
'cause there's so many people trying to get remote jobs, but
they're all being outsourced unknowingly to North Korea.
(16:24):
I mean, I guess they were already lying.
They could probably just put on their like, Oh yeah, I have
really great knowledge of all these like coding languages or
something that are just putting everything in the ChatGPT.
Although I know that coders thatalso went to school for it are
also just putting it in the ChatGPTS so.
So once they got hired, the IT workers would have their
(16:46):
employer would send them issued laptops for the company and they
would send them to Chapman's addresses because she actually
had an address in Arizona and inMinnesota.
I don't know for certain whetherthey just sent them to Arizona
or if they sent them to both, but they would send them to.
(17:08):
They would use Chapman's address.
However, Chapman would either keep the computers at her home
or and she would log into them almost daily and then the This
would allow the IT workers to connect their computers remotely
from North Korea I. Was going to say they could
download like Teamviewer or? Something, well, they were, they
(17:28):
told them remotely the way that they would do this.
They actually were using the application any desk.
Oh yeah, that's that's another one.
It's the same thing. Yeah, I've never, I did not even
know what that was until this episode.
But yes, they would use any desk.
Yeah, basically lets you controla computer from another
computer. Yeah, and she was quoted saying
(17:50):
at 1.0, I use any desk every day.
This is what the FB, So what Chapman was doing, the FBI would
later call a laptop farm and it I mean like literally it was a
laptop farm. She had so many laptops at her
house I'm not even sure where she put them all.
(18:10):
And if Chapman didn't keep the laptops in her home she would
ship them to other Co conspirators who were in China.
And so then either China would get because I guess China and
North Korea have are able to send things to each other.
So sometimes they would send them to North Korea or they
(18:31):
would keep it there. Now, if you're wondering how
these employees were getting paid, when the IT workers would
get paid, they would send their checks.
They did use direct deposit sometimes, but they would also
get their checks sent to Chapman's home, where she would
then forge the signature of the person whose identity was being
stolen and deposit the check into multiple accounts.
(18:54):
Then after depositing the check,the money would be transferred
overseas to Chinese accounts, where it was then deposited into
North Korean accounts. You cannot just Western Union
money over to Pyongyang. Oh.
Thank God, that's actually good to know.
I had to send $1000 over there in the coming weeks so.
Yeah, now you know how to do. It.
I'll send the money. Make sure you send it to China
(19:16):
1st and then over to North Korea.
Yeah. All right.
Thank you. Now, you know, Now some question
if Chapman knew that she was working with North Korea because
they were like, oh, you know, she didn't actually know who is
behind that message. And like, she didn't know who
(19:36):
she was talking to. Like she might not have realized
that it was North Korea. Like she knew she knew she
wasn't it was no one who was American, but like, she might
not have known it was North Korea.
And you know, regardless of who messaged her that day in 2020,
even if she didn't know she was working alongside the North
Korean government, she knew whatshe was doing was wrong.
(19:59):
Chapman knew that the IT workerswere taking the identities of
American citizens and falsifyingdocuments in exchange.
She had an exchange with one of the IT workers and she said.
In the future I hope you guys find other people to do your
physical I nines. These are federal documents.
I will send them for you, but you have to have someone else do
(20:19):
the paperwork. I can go to federal prison for
falsifying federal documents. Yeah.
So. Obviously, I don't think you
could do this and be like, yeah,well, like keep 150 laptops in
my home all open so that a bunchof people around the world can
get into U.S. companies. But I think it's all on the up
and up. Yeah.
Like, no, no, you know the JD. You know, it's absolutely
(20:44):
sketchy. And she did keep about like,
like you said, it was a couple 100 computers in her home at a
time. Her energy bill must have.
Just, oh, I cannot even imagine.Roof the roof.
I can't even imagine what her bill would be.
The like power strips I'm assuming everywhere.
It was actually probably an electrical hazard.
Yeah, if that, if there's one thing you can take away from
(21:05):
this at this episode today. All right, Don't Daisy chain
power strips. No, don't.
All there if there's one thing you take.
Daisy chain. That's what it's called.
Aware of fire hazard. I forgot that that's what that
was called. She would even assist IT workers
when they were trying to set up meetings with the companies
sometimes. Like Chapman would also be in on
(21:26):
the meeting and then like she would change her name to the
person's name. Like let's the specific example,
the guy's name was Daniel and hewas having an issue logging into
a Zoom meeting. So she also logged into the Zoom
meeting, but she also put that she was Daniel.
And then she told him like what to say.
So that there were it was OK that there were two Daniels and
(21:48):
I was like, lady, you're sketchyas fuck.
Like she was sketchy. Anyways, although it was
impressive that they were able to sneak their way into Fortune
500 companies, North Korea decided this was not enough and
attempted to get hired at government agencies as well.
On three separate occasions, IT workers infiltrated the
(22:09):
government to access positions in high level agencies.
One IT worker, who went by the stolen name of Scion W, got a
position with the Immigration and Customs Agency, commonly
known as ICE. The position was remote and he
used Chapman's address to put onfile.
(22:29):
After four months of at the agency he was contacted due to
quote identity issues and he wasasked for his passport or birth
certificate. They also required that he get
fingerprinted. When he failed to do so, he was
let go from the agency. Another IT worker who claimed
their name was Royd L Royd. Royd, OK was staffed at the
(22:54):
Federal Protective Service or FPS.
In April of 2023, Royd was provided paperwork that he would
need to begin employment, including another fingerprint.
When he got the information, he informed FPS that he had a death
in the family and would not be able to be contacted for a week.
Once that week passed, he resigned from the position on
May 8th, 2023, claiming that he needed to stay with his family
(23:18):
during this tumultuous time. 1/3IT contractor who was using the
stolen name of Dong XI They're. Choosing terrible.
Names, I know they're really like wild names.
There were there were some like Dan's and stuff and Scion.
I've never heard. I've heard Zion, not Scion.
(23:38):
They're yeah, they're all, all of these are just like, maybe
that was their thing. They're like, we go so weird
that people would be like, there's no way someone choose
this. Well, you know what was so
funny? One of them like chose the name
Darius like this. They stole the name Darius.
And they were like, basically like, they had to, like, quit
the job because the person wanted to, like, do an like,
(24:01):
wanted them to turn on their camera because they were like,
you're being sketchy. And they were like, I can't turn
on my camera because I'm an Asian.
I'm not. I can't be an like, they're not
going to believe I'm Darius. That's fair.
Yeah. That's fair.
I I feel like you just turn it on.
You were like, what the fuck? And then you were like, Oh yeah,
I don't know, they might. My parents really like the
American culture or something. Right.
(24:22):
Then you you could talk. Your way out you could talk your
way out of. It but he was smart.
Enough, but I also think that like on the application or
something that he put that he was black.
Oh yeah, it. Was like, well that would be a.
Yeah. And then he was like, OK, I
can't be on camera because I'm North Korean.
So Dongsy, he was working for the General Service
Administration. And also all of these government
agencies also had links to the Department of Homeland Security.
(24:45):
So yeah, this was a major issue.Dong provided that his address
was Chapman's address and listedher as his spouse.
He attended a few meetings, but it was clear that he couldn't
properly communicate with the people that he was having the
meeting with, and he also attended several meetings where
he did not speak. The company also, well GGSA also
(25:11):
had a really hard time getting ahold of him and so they let him
go in October of 2nd of 2023. Helping the IT workers was not
the only thing that Chapman did that was sketchy.
She would also deposit and transfer paychecks to different
accounts. Like I was talking about a
little bit earlier. There were several instances
(25:32):
where Chapman would message various people about the money
that she was sending and who sheshould send it to.
When Chapman became concerned with the amount of money that
she was sending, she said quote.And do you know what happens
when bank my bank account gets flagged by the federal
government for processing too many large payments and sending
them overseas? I get into trouble and I go to
(25:54):
prison. I have to make sure I'm doing it
the right way. Wow.
She really portended her own prison sentence multiple times.
She literally said like, and shewas like, Oh yeah, I totally
know what I'm doing. It's.
Like guys, you're going to get me in trouble.
Another time she had an issue depositing a check because the
(26:15):
names didn't match up on an on the accounts and they exchanged
between her and the IT worker. So these these were just so
funny. So I had to, or I thought they
were funny so that's why I'm including them.
But this is the IT worker. Oh, wait.
OK, so basically, no, no, no, let me.
I don't want to do this whole exchange.
Actually, in the moment I was like, yeah, but then now I'm
(26:38):
like, this is too long. We can do a dramatic reading.
Yes, yes, let's do a dramatic reading.
Do you want to be Chapman? I'll be Chapman and UBWH.
Does WH What's? What's my background?
What's my motivation? Your motivation is that you are
trying to get money for your missile program or your boss is
probably going to kill you and you're not going to get any of
(26:59):
this money, but your family's life is on the line.
OK, am I North Korean? Yes.
OK, I won't do the accent. They're saying they sent another
paper check on 2/3. Any paper check you received?
And would you find someone who can help with physical paper
checks? I will pay 30% fee if needed.
(27:22):
The problem is that Irving B isn't real person's name.
It would be great if you could spare me just a few minutes to
discuss about the paper checks. That's probably why it didn't go
through the bank as the name is fake.
I could go to prison for fraud for that.
So Irving is not a real person at all.
(27:44):
So like it's obvious that based on these exchanges that she had,
like we just said, like she knewwhat she was doing was wrong.
She knew she could go to jail and she knew that she could have
severe consequences. And the amount of money that
Chapman was moving around was astounding.
In one account alone, she deposited over $900,000.
(28:05):
Like we're talking, I mean, we said that or I said these
positions that people were getting were in Fortune 500
companies. They were getting paid a lot of
money. Yeah, IT and IT can make a lot
of money, yes. Like some of these people were
making over $300,000 a year, so she was not.
(28:26):
This wasn't just chunk change, although the IT workers were
making a ton of money at variouscompanies.
Chapman herself was making a pretty penny for orchestrating
at all. Chapman charged the IT workers
for rent of the laptops and other fees associated with
running a laptop farm, which included shipment, Technical
(28:49):
Support, logging into the accounts, storage, connecting to
company networks, etcetera. As hard as it would be to run
this type of operation, Chapman was not completely covert in her
operations when it came to payment.
She did reveal which accounts the money should be deposited
into because she knew the feds were watching some of her
(29:11):
accounts. All right.
The entire operation blew up in May 2024 when Christina Chapman
was arrested in her Arizona home.
In total, the scheme generated over $17 million, Which I
remember was all falsely reported to the IRS and the
(29:33):
Social Security office. Over 70 U.S. citizens had their
identity stolen. So they would steal someone's
identity and also use it for multiple jobs.
Oh, OK. Yeah, they wouldn't just use it
for one job, They would use it for multiple jobs.
A hard working person? Yep.
Of course, Chapman did not operate it alone.
In this, she worked alongside Ukrainian man.
(29:55):
I'm going to try to say this, right, Alexander Didenko.
And then these three next three names are aliases.
They're believed to be North Korean.
They may also be Chinese people who are operating in this, but
it's Jiho Han, Chun, Ji Jin and Horan Zhu.
So they all are in trouble. But only Alexander and Christina
(30:19):
were arrested. Well, actually, so he's.
In America. Well, so actually he's in Poland
and they're trying to extradite him.
So TBD on that. But she was the only one in
America. Those involved with the scheme
are being charged with conspiracy to defraud the United
States, conspiracy to commit wire fraud, conspiracy to commit
(30:41):
bank fraud, fraud, aggravated identity theft, conspiracy to
commit identity fraud, conspiracy to launder monetary
instruments operating as an unlicensed money transferring
business, and unlawful employment of aliens.
So the three people whose names were aliases, the John Doe's,
(31:02):
they're charged, also charged with conspiracy to commit money
laundering. Chapman's trial will begin on
June 16th, 2024. It is thought that she will get
7 to 9 years for her crimes. However, there were some sources
when she was initially arrested that I was finding when she was
initially arrested, they were saying she could face up to 97
(31:24):
years. The seven to nine years is
telling me that she has been cooperative.
So I think it would be in our best interest to be cooperative.
I would be too. You kidding me?
I got no allegiances to people in North Korea.
At that point. I'm like Nope.
Nope. Nope.
Nope. Nope.
Guys, I told you you would get me in trouble and you got me in
(31:44):
trouble. You got me in trouble.
I literally don't wonder. I'm.
Telling them everything about you.
Actually, I'd be worried that they'd Take Me Out in prison.
I don't think they kind of pull out here, really.
Yeah. No, I don't think the North
Koreans are going to be able to execute you in a in an American
prison. Maybe not.
They do not have that kind of influence.
(32:06):
Probably not. A deal with the devil or
dictator put Christina Chapman right into hell.
It's good to note that when you are being contacted by the by an
enemy of your country, it's probably best to block and
report the message to the FBI. Instead, Christina Chapman used
that message to propel herself into wealth and make a
(32:27):
comfortable life for herself. It is interesting that she chose
a life of comfort, making money for a country who cares not for
its people, only for its nuclearpower.
The people of North Korea starveon a daily basis instead of
helping those in need. Christina Chapman took that
opportunity to finance her own lifestyle while stealing the
(32:47):
identities of her own people. In my opinion, seven years will
be too lenient. She won't serve all that either.
I know that's what's crazy. I I actually think she deserves
more, like for aiding an enemy of the United States and then
like screwing so many of your own people over.
(33:08):
Yeah, I'm surprised she didn't like like that they didn't get
her for some sort of like. Treason or.
Yeah, or, or something, something like like aiding a
foreign. Yeah, like a a foreign enemy, an
adversary to the United States. There's got to be something
about that that they did. They just said to defraud, which
is crazy. So that is probably light.
(33:31):
Yes. For her, definitely.
Yeah, it's very interesting. We'll keep you updated when we
in June, when we find out about that trial, we'll see how that
unfolds. I think it'll be pretty
interesting to see how that one all plays out.
It seems like the defense does not have a very solid.
You said they were going to argue like she didn't know.
(33:54):
It seems like they don't have a solid argument for that, so.
I mean, I don't really know how solid her argument is going to
be at all like. If she's cooperating, then she's
probably already agreed to a plea deal.
I I would, I kind of just think you would have to.
Well, yeah. Or that's what they're obviously
that's what they're working towards if she's cooperating.
So yeah. But on that note, if you liked
(34:18):
what you heard and you want more, you can follow us on
social media. We're on facebook.com/white
collars red hands. We're on Twitter at white
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We are on Instagram at white collars under score red hands.
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We're also on YouTube. Go follow us over on that
YouTube. You can watch this in real time
(34:38):
at. Not in real time, we don't.
Do it live well, OK, No. You can watch a video for sure.
Yeah, yeah, in your own real time.
Yeah, Times relative says AlbertEinstein.
So yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, times is just a construct.
Actually, age is just a number anyway.
This is getting worse. Anyway, go watch this on YouTube
(34:59):
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I I think it's, yeah, it's probably.
(36:03):
Everything. Well, if you think of an, if you
hear of a white collar Crime Story and you're like, Oh my
gosh. Nina and Kashawn should actually
cover this. You can send it our way.
You can send either DM us or e-mail us at
whitecollarsredhands@gmail.com. Actually, this was like kind of
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(36:23):
So that's yeah. Yeah.
So thanks for thanks for you made one good decision by Yeah,
thanks. Yeah.
Giving us this episode. Yep.
Yeah, it was interesting. So I guess thanks about thanks.
Thanks for that. Anyways, we'll see it.
We'll see you next time on another episode of White
(36:44):
Collars, Red Hands.
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