Ep 163 / Pack Light, Hunt Right: Carl's Tips for Out of State Adventures

We had a fantastic chat with Carl from the Backpacking & Blisters podcast, diving deep into the nitty-gritty of packing for an out-of-state hunt. The main takeaway? Reducing pack weight is crucial for making your journey through the backcountry smoother and more enjoyable. Carl shared some golden nuggets on how to pack efficiently, suggesting we rethink our food and clothing choices to lighten the load. He emphasized the importance of evaluating your gear and not overpacking—which, let’s be honest, we’ve all been guilty of at one point or another! Whether it's about choosing the right gear or even tackling the mental aspects of being out in the wild, we covered it all with a healthy dose of humor and banter. So grab your favorite snack, sit back, and enjoy our laid-back conversation filled with insights for your next adventure!

Hiking, camping, and backpacking aren’t just hobbies; they’re a way of life for many outdoor enthusiasts, and in this episode, we explore the ins and outs of preparing for an out-of-state hunt with the insightful Carl from the Backpacking & Blisters podcast. Our conversation kicks off with Carl recounting his journey in the outdoor world, sharing tales of his adventures and the lessons learned along the way. As a seasoned backpacker, he brings a wealth of knowledge about how to pack efficiently, reducing unnecessary weight while still ensuring all essentials are covered. For instance, he advises not overpacking water if there are reliable sources along the trail, and to reconsider the food items that can quickly add up in weight.

We delve into the nitty-gritty of gear selection, where Carl shares his thoughts on common pitfalls, like choosing heavy clothing or unnecessary luxuries that can weigh down your pack. The banter between our hosts adds a humorous touch, as we share our own packing mishaps and the absurd lengths we sometimes go to for comfort in the wild. Carl’s approachable and friendly style makes it easy to absorb the tips he shares, and by the end of the episode, listeners are sure to feel empowered to tackle their next hunting trip with a fresh perspective and lighter load. Plus, we touch on the importance of navigation and safety in the outdoors, reminding ourselves to always be prepared for the unexpected.

Takeaways:

• Packing light is crucial for out-of-state hunts; every ounce counts when you're hiking.
• Evaluate what you really need before packing; overpacking food and gear can weigh you down.
• Remember to stay hydrated, but don't carry more water than necessary if streams are nearby.
• Being prepared means knowing how to use your equipment efficiently, especially in emergencies.

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Welcome to the WhitetailAdvantage Podcast with your host,
Brett Bovin.
Thank you for tuning in andenjoy the show.

(00:22):
What is up, everyone andwelcome to the Whitetail Advantage
Podcast.
I'm your host, Brett Bowmanand I'm Tonight we're going to do
an actual intro because wehaven't done one in a second, so
if you haven't noticed,welcome to Electronic Campfire.
We are not politically correcton our show.
I strongly believe hunting andbrotherhood go hand in hand.
So yes, there is going to besome hazing on all of our shows.

(00:44):
That just goes with it.
It's all fun and we loved eachother anyways, but we're going to
dish it out.
We expect you guys to dish outwith us too.
So all in good fun and love.
I don't care if I hurtpeople's feelings because I just
at a point in my life, I justdon't give a Anyways, this is a brotherhood
though, so we can be raw.
It goes hand in hand.
Like I said.

(01:05):
I also do want to mention putyour cord in a slot machine for anyone
that doesn't know, help growthe show, help share the show.
I want to say thank you toeveryone out there that's been a
fan of the show from the startand we picked up some new fans, audience,
brothers, sisters along the way.
This is a brotherhood, so weeveryone that's part of it, we accept

(01:27):
everyone, we love everyone andwe just can't say thank you enough
to everyone that's been fromthis from the beginning.
However, I do also want to saythank you to all the companies that
have partnered up with us hereat Whitetail.
Advantage, xop, Magnus, Rec,Bo addicts and all in Flavors of
the forest want to say thankyou to you guys.
I also want to say thank youto all the men and women in the military.

(01:48):
Thank you for your service.
We greatly appreciate it.
Thank you to all the policeofficers, the firefighters, the nurses,
everyone in public service.
We want to say thank you foryour service.
All right, enough of that.
It's episode 163.
So tonight, because WhitetailVanish Team, we're going to Indiana
for a hunt.

(02:08):
I strongly believe that thebackpacking and hiking side of it
all doesn't get discussed as much.
And in the hunting podcast, atleast around me, you can always go
listen to other podcasts andlisten to their things.
You can listen to our guestsand their podcast.
Don't be wrong, but I thought,well, let's talk about.
I have a hunting show that'sbased off of just that side of it.

(02:30):
Because we are going to begoing backpacking.
We're going to be hikingthrough the woods.
So it's.
This can be some informationthat we should know.
It's not just hunting.
And there's gonna be showswhere we talk about bringing a guest,
we talk about budgeting forhunting trips.
But here's tonight's show.
We're gonna be talking aboutbackpacking and hiking and stuff
like that.
So enough of me chip chatting.
Bring our guests on squashhere with us tonight.

(02:52):
Johnny's not and Dave's notwith us, so we're excited about that.
We're happy about that.
And tonight's guest, Carl.
Carl, thank you for coming onthe show, brother.
My pleasure.
How's it going, guys?
Good, good.
It's going fantastic.
Carl, for anyone that doesn'tknow you, can you give a little back
background about yourself?

(03:12):
So, yeah, Carl Mandrioli here.
Backpacking and Blisters podcast.
I'm the host and producer ofthe show.
We've been going for eightseasons, and, yeah, we haven't talked
a lot of hunting on our show,to be honest.
And I think this is the firsthunting podcast I've been on, so
I'm really curious if there'sany information that I've got that's
helpful for everybody.

(03:33):
But I have backpacked withhunters, though, so I have a little
bit of experience in with that.
Yeah.
What state do you live in, bythe way?
Some in Colorado.
When I was getting ready tograduate college, Colorado was on
the list to move to becauseyou have basically everything you
hunt and mountains andbackpacking like you do out there.

(03:53):
Like, that was just the placethat I wanted to move to.
It's a big hunting state.
Like, I've definitely been outon the trail, and I'm just like,
way out in the middle ofnowhere, and then, like, somebody
emerges from the forest.
I'm like, oh, hey there.
With.
With a gun.
I'm like, I think you're a hunter.
I hope you're a hunter.
Oh, man.
Yeah, there's a lot of peoplewhen it comes to elk hunting, though,

(04:17):
there's one unit out therethat's like, prime.
I think it's like out unit 51or something.
But I've done some scoutingwith a buddy just.
Just for elk and just kind oftry to figure out, like, differences
in terms of just how, youknow, like, how you move, how you.
What you're concerned about asyou're moving through the mountains,
and it's definitely different.
Yeah.

(04:37):
Well, let me see if I want tostart this first question off, how
long, how many, how many yearsof experience do you have in the
backcountry in the woods andbackpacking and stuff like that?
I'm sure you've been doingthis for a long time, since you were
a kid, but how long have youbeen like, quote unquote, professionally
kind of like doing this stufflike that pro level?

(04:59):
Like, is that a thing?
Like, are you, are you a pro hunter?
Right.
Yeah.
No.
Well, let's say this like to apoint where it's like, you know what?
I started picking things upmore and more as you get older.
Yeah, No, I, no, I, I, I thinkthat, I guess I, I would consider
myself an expert.
I just like pro.
Seems like you're getting paidto go do those things and I don't
know if I, yeah.
Qualify, but yeah, I wouldsay, yeah, like high school to now

(05:23):
is like 30ish years, maybe alittle bit more.
So I've been doing it for along time and, and not just backpacking,
but a little bit ofeverything, whether it's just, you
know, camping or mountainbiking or trail running.
Just a lot of, a lot of timeon the trails for sure.
So yeah, we, we have a tripcoming up in October.

(05:43):
I think we picked out acampsite that we're going to be staying
to, but we're going to bedoing a lot of backcountry into the,
into the woods and who knows,we might stay up in those woods and
might not even bring it back down.
Who knows?
I don't know yet.
Right.
I don't like dark.
Okay.
I'm a little scared.
I get a little freaked out.
I got my little lantern andthen I get, I got like 30, 000 flashlights

(06:05):
in my backpack.
Okay.
Scared like you're joking, butdo you really have a bunch of flashlights?
I do have a lot of flashlights.
I'm not scared of the dark,but I do have a lot of flashlights
because you just never know.
I like to have backups onstuff like that.
Okay.
Like, full disclosure, I justgot back from a long, long hike,
long through hike, 10 days andI was skimping on weight and that
was one of the things Iskimped on.
I didn't bring a flashlight, Ididn't bring a headlamp and I used

(06:27):
like, I was like, emergency situation.
I'll use my, my phoneflashlight like that.
That'll be good enough.
So I think that's going to godown the road of like.
Yeah.
Kind of packing your fears.
Right.
Like you're you're afraid tobe out there without light.
Yeah.
You don't want to get caughtin the dark.
Well, I'll say this.
I have a headlamp and I have.
And like, it's a extremelybright one.
And then I have like one likereally big handheld, not like a giant

(06:51):
one, but like a decent mediumsized handheld flashlight.
And they're extremely bright.
And lumens.
And those are the only twooutside my phone that I carry.
Are they.
Do you have D batteries?
Are you bringing like, D cellbatteries here?
I think it has D batteries inthat one.
I can't remember now.
Okay, he's got the originalCOP Maglite with like the.
It's like a baton, you know?

(07:11):
Right.
That's what he's carrying in.
In a pinch, could you use itas a weapon, is the question.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah, you can use that.
That's pretty heavy duty.
Well, I, I care.
I strongly.
I love lumens.
Like, I. I don't know what it is.
I just love the bright lightand the higher lumens has just always
been my thing.
Gotcha.
Comes to flashlights.
Gotcha.
Okay.
Yeah, Mike.

(07:33):
Well, let's talk about that.
Is that something, though,that you can kind of skip out on?
I mean, it sounds like that'simportant to you, right?
So I don't, like, who am I tosay, yeah, don't bring this or don't
bring that.
But definitely, like, thethought of.
Of kind of packing your fearsis something that's big and backpacking.
And so what I would say isyou, like, at the very.

(07:53):
The baseline level, people arestarting as if they're like in the
military.
The military is like, okay, two.
You know, if you bring two,it's one, or if you bring one, you
really have none.
And.
And you want to be over prepared.
Right.
I don't know if that's true inthe hunting community, but that's
definitely true in thebackpacking community.
People have this idea, butwe're not in the military.
We're not going and goingafter bad guys.
Like, this is a very differenttype of trip, and God bless the military,

(08:16):
but that style of goingthrough the backcountry is not the
same thing as what we're doing.
And so I think that kind ofexamining your gear and asking yourself,
is this just like a littlekind of comfort thing, or do I really
need this?
How my.
How often am I using this?
And then evaluating it whenyou get back, like, did I even use
that stinking flashlight?
Did I need to use it?
And just.

(08:37):
Yeah, Kind of.
That's like the, the baselineof where I start.
Yeah.
Yeah, Mike.
I mean, we, we carry lights.
Sorry, Brett.
We carry lights predominantly.
I mean, I, I'm not worriedabout walking in with a light on,
but you know, when you shoot adeer, last light, you gotta be able
to go and check your blood onthe ground.
So I mean, that's.
You want something that's notlike too pinpointed, but that's flooded

(08:58):
out over the ground and youknow, I mean, that's, that's really
the only reason why.
I mean, you know, unlessyou're up in a part of the land you've
never been in and you're, youknow, not new to, you're new to the
area, you haven't been therebefore, and you're trying to, you
know, just see a trail or, youknow, a game trail to walk in on
and stuff.
But, you know, for the mostpart, like growing up, I didn't want
to walk in with a light.

(09:19):
I was afraid, dude, somethingwould pinpoint me.
I was like more unobvious.
I am, and I sound like a deeror some other animal walking very
slow and stopping and taking abreak every so many feet.
Then nothing's going to bother me.
I don't want that light on me, right?
So I got scared with that whenI was younger.
Like, I, I need the lightbecause I was young and I was like,

(09:41):
oh, I was, I was actuallyafraid going through the dark because
of the movie Pumpkinhead.
Everyone that knows that's afan of the show knows me.
I am scared of the movie Pumpkinhead.
If you just want to mess withBrett Carl, just send them text pictures
of Pumpkin head.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, you're asking for itby telling everybody that, right?
Everyone's known, but, youknow, as I got older, I was, I'm

(10:03):
at the point now when it comesto early morning entrances and out,
like, I barely turn my, my redlight on and I'm.
Like I said earlier, I'm bigon the lumens.
So when you're shoot that deerand you're tracking it through the
middle of night, like you wantit flashing right there, but you
also want that good moonlightaround on the backside of it.
But like you were mentioningearlier, I do have that mentality

(10:27):
because I was in law enforcement.
I was trained by lawenforcement officers, I was trained
by military personnel.
So even from a young age, Iwas trained that way.
So it's just been thatmentality that was ingrained into
me where 1, it's non 2 was onetype deal.
And yeah, like I've had thatthrough everything I backpacked for
and even when I'm going outinto my own backwoods and I'm camping

(10:50):
or something like that and I'mdone with, I'm like, did I really
need that?
Right.
But yet when I'm packing up,ready to go, I'm like, I'm.
I much rather of the, the termof I learn to have and need the need
not have type thing.
Right.
But like where do you draw the line?
Right.
So you, you could say that foranything is like, okay, I'm gonna
bring in some body armor incase a bear randomly attacks me.

(11:13):
I'd rather, I'd rather havethe body ar.
Not need it then need it andnot have like that's not going to
happen.
Like it's very unlikely to happen.
So you, you have to figure outwhere that line is for you, I suppose.
Yeah.
With.
So with that being said, we'repacking, we're getting ready to pack.
Our, our trip to leave ourhouse for.

(11:34):
We're going to be down therefor seven days, I think seven, eight
days.
Where should we start looking at?
Okay.
At least on the pack, at leaston the packing side of it.
Let's start there.
Right.
I guess I from.
So you get like differenttypes of hunters out there, right?
So you get the hunters thatare doing it sounds like exactly
what you're doing.
You get the hunters that arekind of riding around their back
country mopeds and just kindof shooting off when they see something.

(11:57):
So I don't know your, yourbackground, experience, how often,
how many times have you gonelike back country hunting where you
have to pa like where yougotta be mindful of the weight that
you're carrying.
Is this, is this first time oris this like pretty frequent?
This will be my first out ofstate trip hunt.
Okay.
It's not my first time.
I, I've backcountry hunted upin the mountains.

(12:18):
Yeah.
So I think that if it's yourfirst time, like just chances are
you're gonna be overpacking.
Like I don't know if there's asolution for that because you don't
really know what you're gonnause and need and want until you're
there.
And if you, once you have thatexperience a few times you can kind
of sift things out.
But if you're talking, ifyou're looking at strategies, I've
got.
Okay, I, I mean we can, we candig in here.

(12:39):
I've got, I basically havelike three strategies that will help
you perform well while, whileout there.
And they're kind of thesegeneralized strategies, but we can,
we can break down each one.
So the first one we've alreadybeen alluding to is reducing your
pack weight.
And if you feel like, I don'tknow, like the squash is talking

(12:59):
about having some sort of,maybe like a lantern style with lighting,
you can, you can haveultralight lanterns that, you know,
that weigh under a poundversus like a D cell battery mag
light, which is not gonna bekind of that floodlight situation.
That's gonna be, I'm guessinglike that could be two or three pound
flashlight right there.
But just reducing your packweight is gonna help you move around

(13:21):
when you're.
When you're hunting a lot more efficiently.
And so one of the biggest waysto reduce weight is there's, there's
a couple of em, but one ofthem is just simply evaluating what
you have and not over bringingthings like clothing and not overpacking
water.
So if you're in an area wherewater is abundant, do you need to
have 2 liters of water on youat all times?

(13:42):
Or if you're like, hey, I'mgonna hit a stream in another mile,
let me just have half a liter.
And then when I hit thatstream another mile, I'm just gonna
do a quick filter.
So those are things you can consider.
And then in terms of just likeactual gear, I feel like, correct
me if I'm wrong, but I feellike a lot of the hunting gear is
just sticking heavy.
So like the quacks.

(14:05):
Are you guys fans of qu.
I don't use it.
No.
No.
Okay.
My buddies.
That's.
That's his favorite pack.
So I don't know if all packsare this way, but I was looking at
their, their Pro 7800 and thatpack weighs six pounds empty.
So you're carrying six poundsof your back and you're not even
carrying anything really atthat point, just like you're burning
six pounds.

(14:26):
This is my pack.
I mean, it's got.
That's it, you know, and it's,it's enough for me to put my sticks
in.
I mean, if, if I'm telling yousomething that you don't know, I'm
sorry.
Now go for it.
Our, Our systems that we're.
We're hunting with.
Brett's just starting out thisyear is our, our stick system.
I'm just trying to.
Where the hell did I put them?

(14:47):
Oh, they're right here.
Hold on.
Stuff here.
10,000 things on here.
So this system Here, there.
You see how they got steps onthem and they, they pack tight like
this.
So I take that, I put it, Iput it level underneath my pack,
like up against my back, mylower back.
Right.
And that's strapped to thebottom of that pack.

(15:09):
And then we have a little platform.
It's just big enough to standon, made of aluminum also that slides
down in my pack.
And then I just got my bareessential hunting gear that I need
to get up in a tree.
Okay.
You know, so this stuff with,with your platform is about six and
a half, seven pounds.
The way I'm running it, what Igot in my packs, probably another

(15:32):
15.
Well you sound like a pro.
So basically though light whathe's saying, like at a bare minimum
though, when we're carryingout just from where we're camping
to the tree stand, we'recarrying six to ten pounds just off
of those two items themselves.
Outside of our bows, we're notgoing to talk about gun hunting.
But you're carrying your bow,you have the platform like, like

(15:54):
the squash has right there.
That's the little platformthat weighs Nothing.
It's £2.
So you're carrying theessential items like you're not going
to get away from.
We're talking about the nonessentials, right?
Yeah.
That's where like how can wereduce because weight even with this,
the sticks that we have there,the platforms that we have, even
the bows, it's just findingways to reduce the weight.
Right.

(16:15):
So I'm more concerned thatstuff's just not.
That's going to be there nomatter what.
Correct.
How can we reduce the weighton the other stuff?
Like well you don't need itthere but you need to make sure you
have this type of stuff.
Right.
Like so I guess what you'regetting is like well what's way to
reduce weight that maybe likefrom non essential items.
So like the top three itemsthat I think.
But I see people overpacking.
I already mentioned the waterthat, that's water's heavy, eight

(16:37):
pounds to the gallon.
Second one is people typicallyoverpack food.
So they, I don't know, youknow, no matter how long I've gone
backpacking, like it's veryhard to dial it in perfectly.
So if it's better to have alittle bit more than obviously like
underpack the food.
But that's a common thingwhere people will way overpack it
like pounds of extra food.
The third thing that Imentioned was clothing.

(16:58):
So like evaluating yourclothing against the temperature,
the number one item I wouldSay people bring that is just like
extremely heavy and notnecessary is like a cotton hoodie.
If you're like it's going tobe bulking your pack as well.
There's, there's performancefleece things or mid layers you can
buy that aren't even thatexpensive to replace it.

(17:19):
So.
But evaluating having, youknow, like, do you need to have three
pairs of shorts, you havethree shirts, you know, like that
kind of thing.
If you're actually crashingout near where you're gonna be hunting,
I think those are, those areeasy ways to reduce weight.
And I don't think we discussedit when it comes to food and water.
I think at least going there,this was my thought was just to not

(17:40):
buy anything until we get downthere and then go to a quick grocery
store and just have a placewhere it's like, all right, let's
buy our stuff for three daysor four days and then we'll reevaluate
as we're getting closertowards the end of this trip and
all right, we need to at leastmake sure we have this stuff and
that stuff like deal and justthat way we're not killing ourselves

(18:03):
with that stuff and obviouslyspending a bunch of money that we
don't end up wasting.
Right.
What was good?
What was good for us?
Like when I went down to Ohio,my son and I went into basically
just Dollar General.
And I mean we got baloney andwe got bread and we got mustard and
we got, you know, someAmerican cheese.

(18:23):
And you know what, we justmake a sandwich, just throw it in
there, keep it simple.
You know, you got some snacks.
I, I don't bring a lot with mewhen I go because it's just extra
weight.
It's extra crap in your pack.
As long as you got somethingto drink for the time that you're
going to be out there, youknow, keep that with you because
it get, you know, in theearlier months, it gets hot.
Still hot, you're thirsty.

(18:44):
But like you know, just, justwhat pops into my mind.
I, I used to prep.
I was a prepper.
I, I got into all that.
I actually kind of headed upbut one of the prepping classes and
stuff that we had out here.
But I got kind of in thatstuff when I was getting into college.
Like, yeah, as I was leavinghigh school.
It's like those guys seem likea bunch of wackadoodles, but they

(19:05):
seem smart as like prepare forthis stuff.
I was like that, that stuffwas pretty cool.
Like he, like, like Carl wassaying, you know, they over you over,
like, I need eight bottles of water.
I'm going out for the whole day.
I mean, you could take astraw, one of those, you know, filter
straws, and just find somevaluable water and use that.
You're not carrying thatweight of that water around with

(19:26):
you.
And I mean, it's, it's kind of funny.
Like, I'll.
I'll bulk weight up in the, inthe, you know, the summertime.
And then in the winter time, Istart dropping weight because I'm
out hunting.
I'm not eating as much.
I'm barely, you know, I just,I just hunt.
I concentrate on hunting andit's, you know, I'm going from spot
to spot.

(19:46):
I'm walking the mountains, I'mdoing my stuff.
But it's funny, with my ownpack, I've like, I'm like, okay,
this piece that I have here,how can I make that more efficient
or do I really need it, right?
And, and I'll sit there andI'll like, you know, I'll try to
find a later version of it.
I'll actually go out.

(20:07):
I'll.
I'll freeze half the time.
Like, if I'm out in the woods,I don't want to carry all this extra
jacket, you know, strapped tothe back of that.
And it's something else on myback when I'm going in.
So I, I kind of, I preparemyself for the elements, you know,
I'll start, you know,acclimating my body to what I got
to withstand when I'm out there.
And I'm sure, you know, you,with you backpacking and doing the

(20:30):
trips you do, you probably sitthere and you say, yeah, do I really
need that polar fleece or canI get by with a midweight, you know,
shirt?
And I'm going to be all right,you know, great.
A great thing.
They're, they're not realbulky or really heavy, but hand warmers.
I mean, you could take a handwarmer pack and you're freezing if
you throw that sucker.
I always wear a lightweightturtleneck because I don't like the

(20:51):
wind hitting me in the back.
But I'll take that pack andI'll put that right at the nape of
my neck back here.
You'd be surprised how fastyou'll warm up.
And your kidneys are the nextthing that frees up really quick,
especially if it's windy out.
So if you can just throw apack down by, like, the smaller your
back and you, you don't haveto have heavy clothing.
That stuff will warm your Yourcore temperature right up.

(21:12):
Yeah, yeah.
Off season kind of stuff for sure.
Yeah.
Those are just little, littleinsights that I've learned over the
years, you know, especiallylike mountain hunting.
I mean, you get up in thereand you'll sit from first light.
You know, it just makes you warm.
Yes, Mr. Brett Bowen, I have apoint on that.
That's why I was raising my hand.
I was trying to be polite.

(21:33):
You're all right.
Thank you.
Thank you, kind sir.
No, that was.
That's a good point.
Because at least on thehunting side of it, the last like
three to four years leadinginto last season, I just felt like
when I got into those coldermonths of hunting, I just felt like
I had so many layers on tostay warm.

(21:54):
And even then I'd still be outthere within two hours.
And I'm like shivering, likefreezing my ass off.
So I actually found this.
I was trying to find likethese heated clothings and that way
I could.
The electric stuff?
Yeah, that's what I found.
I found this one from scentlock.
And it's a vest and it's alittle battery pack that you plug
into right there and then youhave three different settings.

(22:16):
And I swear to God it reducedabout six layers of my clothing.
And instead of having to.
When I'm sitting in my treestand and I feel like I'm a giant
squatch man up there and I canbarely draw back my bow, now I'm
feeling out there.
I'm just in a T shirt and Ican easily do my stuff right.
So that's one thing I thoughtwas cool to find ways to reduce weight.

(22:37):
See these things, they're neoprene.
You put them over your toes,they're neoprene.
They're made by Meister M E IS T E R. You guys can see that.
Hold on.
Horrible at this.
Yeah.
I do have a weird thing though.
I'll say this real quick.
They stop your toes from freezing.
Believe it or not.
You don't even need a heatpack in that thing.

(22:58):
The neoprene just keeps you.
I don't know why it works.
Is it just me?
Squatch, I want to ask you this.
Just a quick.
Give me a quick answer.
Do your knees get cold?
No, I got.
They get cold for me reallyquick when I'm in the stand.
My legs are the last thing toever get cold on me because they're
tree trunks.
I just.
They're just fat and muscle.
They don't get.
Well, you also.

(23:18):
You were.
You're in a salad though, right?
Well, no, I mean, I hunt fixedstands, too.
A lot.
I mean, saddle was just lastyear, I just started using that.
But no, you know, to be quickabout it, the.
The first thing that reallygets cold on me is usually to my
toes because my feet sweatwhen I walk in.
My feet just sweat all the time.
That don't matter.
But it's usually my feet thatgive in first.

(23:41):
My.
My hands and stuff kind of.
It's.
It's never my face because Igot this muff on my face.
But didn't you look sexy?
I am.
I'm a handsome mother, you know?
You know that.
But like I said, it's.
It's prep, you know, It's.
It's.
I tell these guys, I said, youknow, I used to ride Harley's, you
know, and I'd be out,sleeveless T shirt.

(24:01):
Right.
In the fall, it's 30 degreesout, and these guys are all leathered
up and stuff.
I'm like, you know, they'relike, how can you ride, dude?
I'm like, I'm a bear.
I'm just used to it, you know?
But it helps you.
You know, in the morning whenyou're driving to work and it's cold
out, put your windows down, man.
Start getting acclimated tothe freaking cold.
Now we're talking.
You know, you gotta.
You gotta learn to acclimateyour body back to the temperatures

(24:24):
and stuff.
And, you know, in the longrun, to get back to the backpack
inside of it, it's gonna helpyou with a lot less stuff that you
gotta carry into the woods.
If your body can physicallyhandle situations, you're not gonna
have to pack as much gear.
Of course.
Don't be stupid.
If you know you're goingsomewhere you've never gone before,
it might pay to put the littlebit of extra clothing in there because

(24:45):
you may be spending the night.
Yeah, you're.
Yeah.
You're packing for theconditions and the location that
you're going for.
100.
Yeah.
But, yeah, that's interestingthat you tried out the electric stuff,
because I actually met with acompany called Gobi Heat, and they
said that their main clientswere parents watching their kids
sports games when it was like,a little bit too cold outside.

(25:06):
Yeah.
So I was like, yeah.
Is that, like, are we gettingtoo soft as a society where we got
to rely on the electric clothes?
Clothing.
Is it kind of like the E bikesof the outdoor community?
Is that what that is, or.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yes.
Because now it's just a lazyway to walk out to your tree stand.
Yeah.

(25:26):
Me, I have to walk three milesfrom my.
Where I'm changing my clothesto my, my, my street stand.
Right.
I'm like, I don't have.
I'm not gonna spend the moneyon that crap.
I spent the money on, on theclothing though, don't get me wrong.
Yeah, yeah.
But no, I, I figured that,that was a good answer though of
where that generally gets bentto where, where parents in like those,

(25:48):
those fall type weather,winter sports.
I don't blame them.
Like, I, I remember when I'llsay this, I was at a soccer game
and they had those electric,like they had those like a pullover
tent type deals.
Okay.
And then they had like those alittle small electrical space here
type deals.
Yeah, you.

(26:08):
I thought I was bougie.
You guys bring it up another level.
But it's, it's tough becausewhether you're talking about, you
know, like when you're justsitting there taking it from the
weather and you can't move,like you're supposed to just watch
your kids or whatever you'redoing, whether you're hunting, you're
taking.
That's just tough.
So you, whatever you want todo, you want to stay warm and comfortable.
Yeah.
Especially it's when the windhits me though, man.

(26:30):
I, I'm going to do everythingand get out of that window.
Right.
Hate that.
Especially playing in the after.
I think though, another pointthat we should discuss is navigation.
I mean that's one thing thoughI'm sure you take into account very
seriously because I mean weshould all know the number one least
when.
Number one rule is when you'releaving to go somewhere, hey, I'm

(26:52):
telling a buddy I'm going tobe in this air general area.
Don't hear from me then set,send a rescue type party.
But I think though, like anumber of thing is navigation.
What is there, is there anyhunt like navigation apps that you
use just to kind of likeprepare yourself before you go out
there and what are some skillsand stuff like that that prepare

(27:13):
you?
And I will say this real quick.
There is a quote from Cody andLundeen from the dual survival show
that I love watching their show.
I like Cody.
Yeah.
And Cody said.
I believe it was Cody.
The more you know, the lessyou bring out.
It probably wasn't exact whathe said, but that was, It's a lot
of what he said.
Right.
I thought.
I loved that quote.

(27:33):
So with that, I love that quote.
And I like Cody, but I don'tlike that he's walking around barefoot
all the time.
I Don't think that's.
I always thought that was odd.
Yeah.
Like, he's.
He.
I mean, he knows his stuff,don't get me wrong.
Oh, yeah.
That's ridiculous.
Like, that's out of control.
So.
Especially in those.
Those places when he was up inthe snow.
Yeah.
I could un.
Nowhere, no matter where hewent, I couldn't find my own way

(27:55):
of logic, logically reasoningwhy he was in the bear, but especially
in the Amazon, whereeverything's coming on and biting
you and the parasites.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, that's like drivingwith your window down to acclimatize
the cold, like, to the extreme.
Right.
You're like, I will alwayswalk barefoot so that my feet will
be the toughest things.
But, yeah, so many things thatcould happen.

(28:15):
But, yeah, I think it used tomake Dave Canterbury want to strangle
him.
Yeah, that's true.
Joe.
Ted Eye, too, man.
That.
That just got heated.
Yeah, right, right.
What was Herschel's topic?
What was the question?
Navigation.
Navigation, that's right.
Okay, well, do you guys usenavigation apps at all?

(28:35):
Yeah, well, I use.
I have an app called Spartan Forge.
That's the hunting app that I use.
Okay.
I. I use predominantly Onyx.
Onyx, okay.
And I've heard good thingsabout Onyx.
I've used.
So in the backpacking world,there's a.
There's a ton of apps, and itseems like.
And I don't know if this istrue for hunting, but it seems like
each app has something it doesreally well, but then it doesn't

(28:57):
have something else you wantit to do.
And so on our recent trip, wehad different.
We.
I think we had, like, fourdifferent apps going at one time,
and it was.
We're constantly cycling backbetween them, but in the end, we
came back to just, like,comparing one of the apps to a physical
hard copy map, and that workedthe best.

(29:18):
One of the guys.
Actually, two of the guys thatI went with that just use strictly
apps.
One guy got straight up lostbecause the app had something plot
like he was reading the appcorrectly, but it was plotted in
the wrong spot, so he went,like, miles out of his way.
Another guy was about to makea significant wrong turn when I was
like, look at the map.
Like, look at the hard copy map.
We need to take a left here,not a right.

(29:40):
And I know that a lot of timesyou guys are off trail, and so you're
looking at the contour linesand not necessarily trails, but if
the app has things plottedincorrectly, then you're kind of
at the Mercy of the app.
And so I don't know.
I would just caution aboutusing that strictly.
But in terms of, like,learning the navigation, I mean,
you can go just like.

(30:01):
Like, entry level, comparingwhere your surroundings are to what
you're seeing on the map orwhat you're seeing on the app to
actually, like, straight uptaking classes or navigation courses.
They even have navigationraces just to get you trained to,
like, process things faster.
But everybody seems to do itdifferently, so I don't know.
How did you guys learn navigation?
I was taught there's a spideron my lens.

(30:21):
Little go get it.
I'll talk.
You get it.
So I was.
I was brought up.
I'm old school.
I'm.
I'm 50.
So I was learned.
My father was in the military.
He taught us how totriangulate and all that stuff.
Yeah, exactly.
But also, when it came intogps, I hold a United States patent

(30:41):
for a wounded animal tracker for.
For bow and arrow.
Oh, really?
I was learning.
Yeah, I was learningtriangulation through GPS when that
technology came out.
So I bought one of the firstlittle handheld GPS units, and basically
it was just a live track.
It didn't have topographic.
It had nothing.
So basically, you'd hit.
Start where you walked in, andI was up in the Adirondack Mountains,

(31:04):
right?
Walk in and then follow your track.
You'd hit backtrack and walkback out.
That was the earliest stuff we had.
You had to wait for it totriangulate to all the gps, then
it would say, go, and youcould start out.
Then I came across Onyx Hunton my phone, and I was hunting new
areas up in the mountains.
Then I said, you know what?
I'm gonna go by the old school stuff.

(31:25):
Keep my compass this and that,and go from there.
And I had maps.
I had actual topo maps andstuff, and I would pick sections
out.
But when I actually laid Onxdown next to it on their topographical
stuff, I was able to selectthe waypoint.
It came up with coordinates.
I checked the coordinates onthe triangulation.
I was like, boy, that stuff'spretty close, man.

(31:45):
I'm gonna.
I'm gonna trust it.
And if.
As long as you.
If you don't have signal andyou don't download a map, then you
got an issue.
But if you download the mapbeforehand and you go in, you're
good to go.
Right, Right, right, right.
And.
But the only thing, like, man,I'll tell you, I've gotten some real
thick mountain laurel, like,stuff you can't see through.
And it's 4 o' clock in the morning.

(32:05):
You're trying to beat feet toa waypoint on the head of a ridge
and you're stuck in thisBermuda Triangle is shit.
And you're like, well, itdidn't show that on the freaking.
Right, Right.
So it can screw you.
But I really, really like Onyx.
I like the simplicity of it.
I like the accuracy of it.
And all the times I've usedit, I've never had that panic rev

(32:29):
where I'm like, am I going toget back out of here?
I've.
And it's another great tool ifyou guys don't use it.
When you shoot a deer and youget down and you start tracking the
blood, I automatically openthat app every time and I hit start
track and I mark blood.
I mark the last spot of blood.
If I've got a spot that endedand I'm telling you, I could show

(32:52):
you a track where I shot a deer.
It went about a half a milestraight back out into an orchard
and it was snow and she didn'tbleed anymore.
I was picking her trackbecause she drug her leg a little
bit.
But I had to go back to thatapp and I was using the general direction
that she was running in on mytrack, where I was following it and

(33:13):
where I would lose her and I'dpick her back up again on that generalization
as she was moving in that direction.
Okay.
So when you start learning howto use these tools and navigation
and stuff for what's there,the possibilities are endless.
Of course.
Always carry a compass.
Always learn how to read amap, you know, and it's very important.
Learn the basics first andthen rely on the easy stuff, you

(33:35):
know?
Right.
I'm sure you've run into itwith, with, with yourself being out
in the wilderness so manytimes, so.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
And then.
Yeah.
Cause if you're, if you justlike, you know, if you just have
one tool that you're using,you know, like, you could lose battery.
You can drop your phone intothe, into the stream.
Right.
So.
And yeah, the maps aren't thatmuch more in terms of weight, so

(33:56):
I'm, I'm willing to carry themap for sure.
But yeah, it sounds like Onyxis working for you, though.
That's.
I mean, Onyx.
I can't say anything bad aboutit, man.
And I've used it religiouslynow for probably almost 10 years.
Wow.
Okay.
Yeah, it's Gotcha.
It's my go to.
I love it.
I love it.
I think I Heard you rightbefore I tried killing that spider

(34:17):
from.
How'd you learn navigation?
Yeah, my.
So this, this how I learned navigation.
My dad, when we moved out towhere they live now, I was probably
12, 13 years old.
That ballpark.
Took me out in the woods, didone quick recon around the area.

(34:38):
He took me blindfolded out inthe area and he put me on the middle
and he said, find your wayback home.
Yeah.
And then that was passage.
Yeah, he.
I was like, well, I don't knowwhere the I'm at.
I'm young.
And he knew that I wasinstantly going to try and figure
out to the listen to like thefour wheeler.
But he turned the four wheeleroff and he said, you can't use this

(35:00):
four wheeler.
And he walked his way outthere and he said, said, you have
to wait till you can't stophearing me.
And knowing my dad, he wouldgo in different directions just to
mislead me.
And I had to find my way backthrough that way.
And one thing that I learnedvery quickly was my internal compass,
because he taught me at ayoung age was sunsets in the west,

(35:21):
sun rises in the east.
So then it was, all right,where's the fucking sun?
Where do I need to go?
And I started picturing thisstuff out and then I basically just
took a blueprint.
Like I took.
Took Google Maps from the phones.
And like I put it in my brain.
I'm like, all right, if I headnorth this way, that's north, that

(35:41):
I'm gonna hit that road there.
And if I hit south, I'm gonnahit that road.
So I'm like, all right.
And I was trying picturing allthis stuff in my brain mentally that
way, and then eventually foundmy way back home.
I got caught in lake effectsnow in the Adirondack Mountains.
And I was about 17 years old.
I walked in in the dark.
I got up in a couple of logroads and it started snowing like

(36:02):
a son of a, like they said itwas gonna.
And it was coming down overprobably four inches an hour.
And after about four and ahalf hours of sitting there and the
snow was building up on me andmy rifle, I decided, well, you know
what, it's probably a smartthing to get the hell back to the
cabin because it's going to behell if I keep staying up here on
this mountain.

(36:23):
So I thought, like, you'retalking about your internal compass,
right?
I knew where I walked in inthe morning.
I had that feeling.
So I get down there, I'mwalking and I come back to a set
of snow filled footprints andthey're mine.
And I'm like, oh God Almighty.
I walked right around in acircle, right?
And I don't know, I don't knowif you guys know, but you have a

(36:43):
natural.
People have a natural clock.
Sometimes they'll clock to theright, sometimes they'll clock to
the left.
When you're walking, it's just natural.
So I remembered back what Iwas taught and I was like, oh my
God, I got to use dead reckoning.
If I don't use dead reckoning,I'm never going to get the hell out
of here.
I'm going to die in these woods.
And I just remember looking ata point that I could see through
that heavy snow, whether itwas a hundred yards out in front

(37:05):
of me or less.
And I'd walk, keep my eyes onthat point.
And I knew I was heading theright way.
And I got myself down to theriver that flowed in there.
It was called the Good now flow.
I got down to the flowage andI knew that took me back to the log
road.
I hugged that freaking river.
I came back.
I started out at 10, 10 o'clock that morning.
I didn't get home to almost5:30 that night.

(37:27):
It was dark.
My buddy was there, he wasfreaking out.
We didn't have cell phones.
I had icicles growing off mybeard, off my eyebrows.
It was a bad, scary feeling, man.
I'll tell you what.
But you got to think it out.
And if, if I didn't rememberdead reckoning, I'd have never got
out of those woods.
I didn't.
I would have probably walkedaround in a circle for hours.

(37:48):
So always remember that youcan always pick a point, vantage
point.
Don't take your eyes off it,you know, make sure it's a big enough
landmark and walk straighttowards it and keep going, you know,
and then when you get to thatpoint, pick another landmark.
But a lot of people don't knowthat stuff, man.
This is, this is old woods,old technology stuff, man, that we
use when we were kids.
So I mean you're totally right.

(38:08):
Yeah, you're natural.
It's weird.
But naturally if you don't dothat, you will walk in a circle.
We're watching the movie, Iguess the movie the Edge with Anthony
Hopkins and Alec Baldwin wherethey get stuck in Alaska and they're
trying to get out and they, Iwatched as a kid, I think it was
in high school.
Anyway, they, they end upwalking in a circle.
I was like, what?
Like those Guys are smart.

(38:29):
They wouldn't do that.
And I talked to an outdoor expert.
They're like, no, that thoseguys would absolutely do that unless
they had.
Unless they chose to use deadreckoning, like you're suggesting.
So.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So all that to say, Brett,man, like, kudos to you as like a
kid figuring out how to getback without walking in circles.
That's impressive.
I just used northwest, east,and south.
That was my basic.
That's why my dad told me,like, figure out which way is northwest

(38:50):
and east and figure out wherewe're at.
He said that we were east, andthen he said, just figure out from
there.
I don't think I could havedone that at your.
At that age, like 12 or 13.
I think I would have beenlike, sitting down, crying.
I don't know.
I grew up in the woods,though, so me being stuck out there,
though, it wasn't like, terrifying.
And granted, he did this andit was like midday, so it wasn't
like, was close to dark timeor anything.

(39:11):
Right.
But no, I.
There was a moment where I waslike, oh, I'm screwed.
I don't know anything and I'mmy first place out here.
And no, there was a momentwhere I was like, freaking the out.
Don't be wrong.
Yeah.
But yeah, he really.
He really had breadcrumbs, andthat's the only thing that made him
get back home.
He.
He read a lot of Goldilocksand stuff, and.
Right.

(39:31):
He knew how to do.
I love.
I just love the outdoors.
I mean, just take that out of it.
But I love trying to decipher problems.
I love being put in those typeof quick think off your feet type
of situations.
And that's why one of the mainreasons why I love being a cop, I
love being put in those typeof situations.
And it's like, you're gonnafight a flight.

(39:52):
And the first moment, I waslike, oh, now I'm here now.
And then like, well, then Iturn that off.
I'm thinking, all right, Igotta figure my way out of here.
And I think that plays into alot of people need to have that mentality
of.
That leads into this nextsegment of.
If you figure out, all right,you're screwed, don't just sit there
and back in a corner like, oh,I'm gonna die, and like that.
No, you gotta the up and yougotta figure your way out of there.

(40:15):
Yeah, I don't.
I don't know how you teachthat somebody, though.
Right?
Like, there's people that you.
You have like, sudden crisislike, suddenly there's anxiety.
There's a crisis.
And you have some people thatnaturally respond.
They're like, all right, let'sprocess through this.
Let's figure this out.
Let's.
Let's, you know, logicallythink our way through this.
And.
And then you have anotherperson who's just, like, panicking
and will just take off runningfor no reason.
I don't know how you trainthat second person to respond better,

(40:38):
because it's just like.
I don't know.
Like, it's a hard situation to replicate.
I think it is, too.
And I. I guess for mepersonally, that's the only way that
I could try to teach thesecond person was, all right, stop
panicking.
Think.
All right?
This is where you're at.
You're lost.
You.
All you have was a knife orjust quick scenario.
And stop freaking out, becausethat's only gonna make the situation

(40:59):
10 times worse.
Take a deep breath, all right?
And just slow the process down.
Like, there was a.
What was the movie.
I think it was called theBlind sir or something like that.
And they're referencing JoeMontana or Steve Young when he was
playing in the super bowlagainst the Bengals back in 97.
And there was a quote from oneof the guys in the huddle.
He said, did Joe Montanaseriously stop and say, hey, is that

(41:22):
so and so actor?
And there's, like, threeminutes left in the football game,
and they're down by threepoints, and they need to win the
game.
Right.
The greats are able to slowthings down, not speed things up,
basically.
So if you can slow things waydown, then you'll be fine.
Yeah.
I just know how to teach that, though.
How do you teach that tosomebody who's prone to panic?
Right.

(41:43):
That's.
I don't know.
I. I haven't.
That is a hard one.
Yeah.
That.
That's just my.
My way of doing.
How to teach it.
I don't know.
I'm gonna give you.
I'll give you how I wastaught, okay?
My father did not take any.
Okay.
He was a hard.
He's a hard guy.
He's real.
Real tough when I was young.
Now he's a cat, you know?

(42:04):
But it was.
Son, listen to me, okay, Pop.
What.
I want you to stop.
Stop freaking out, and I wantyou to visualize yourself from.
Even if it's like a thirdpoint standpoint, stand back.
I want you to see what you're doing.
I want you to visualize whatyou're doing, and then I want you

(42:24):
to accomplish it and do it.
If you could take yourself outof that first narrative, okay, and
you give yourself, like you'restanding back watching yourself do
something, you can do it.
I remember when he taught mehow to drive a standard truck, right,
Dad?
I can't.
I'm choking this thing out.
Keep stalling.
Stop.
Visualize what I do.
Watch me show you.
And then actually apply it to yourself.

(42:46):
Running heavy equipment.
I used to have to take myselfout of that machine, visualize what
I was going to do and do it.
I was all self taught, playingthe drums.
I've been playing the drumssince I was 5 years old.
My old man's a drummer.
I would watch.
I would watch.
You have to take yourself outof the situation.
Sometimes where you'refreaking out, you got to think about
what you're doing in a third person.

(43:08):
And then you got to say, okay,now I can see that task ahead of
me and I have to do it.
And if you can do that toyourself, this is how you teach somebody
who panics, they panic.
I remember getting snaggedwhen I was a kid on, on the bottom
of the river.
I hate fishing.
This is bull crap.
And he'd be like, son, stop,calm down.
This is how you got to do it.

(43:29):
And you know, as a kid, youfight back immediately.
You're just going, yeah, whatever.
You know everything you knowand you get going.
But when you sit back and youactually learn it.
I took a motorcycle class andI was getting my motorcycle license
and it was a safety class andit was for insurance.
And they put you on theselittle dinky ass bikes, right?

(43:50):
And these guys can't even slipa clutch and take off.
And there was a guy, he keptstalling the bike out.
So we go out and have lunchand he's, I'll be back in a little
bit.
I'll talk to you guys in acouple of minutes.
He gets in the car and hedrives a standard car out of there.
And I'm like, okay.
He stalls a bike out, but hecan drive a stick car?
Why, what is that?

(44:11):
So he came back and I'm like,yo, dude.
He's like, yeah.
I said, that's a standard.
He goes, yeah.
I said, why can't you drive a motorcycle?
He's like, well, it's different.
I'm using the clutch with my hand.
And I said, you just gottaimagine your hands, that foot on
the clutch, okay?
And your shifter, instead ofshifting with your right hand is
your foot on the shifter.
So just imagine it's all thesame principles.

(44:33):
It's just you're usingdifferent, you know, limbs of your
body to control the motorcycle.
But I said, you got tovisualize yourself doing it.
And he went, okay.
He goes, this is my third timein this class.
I failed because I can't shiftthe bike.
And I'm like, you'll getthrough this, man.
And I got him to shift the bike.
I don't know.
It was just what I said to him.
But even the instructor islike, hey, let's have a big round

(44:55):
for this guy.
He helped so and so's histhird side here.
He goes, I want you to.
He goes, you should be an instructor.
And I'm like, ah, dude.
You know, I was just happy tohelp the dude out, you know, but.
Maybe, I mean, maybe if, if,if you can systematically walk through
somebody, like, you know, howto not basically poop their pants.
Like, maybe you should have aclass that is, that just like, you
know, squash is way to handle crises.

(45:18):
Your pants.
You know, it's, it's, it'sfunny because I could teach anybody.
I. I used to have an archeryshop I, I worked at, and I would
get guys that never shot abow, and I would have them shooting
bullseyes by the end of the day.
You know, I'd set their bow upfor them, and they couldn't believe
it.
Now, it's easy for me to coachsomebody, but it's hard for me to
coach myself because you're,you're, you're your toughest critic

(45:42):
and.
Right.
You don't always see whatyou're doing.
But if I'm standing there andI'm watching somebody, I can correct
you in an instant and have youshooting bullseyes.
So sometimes, like my dadalways told me, stop, slow down,
think about what's going on,and then do it.
And it's the same whetheryou're backpacking, if you're in
a situation, maybe, maybe youfell down and you got hurt, maybe

(46:05):
you sprained your ankle reallybad and you're starting like, oh,
how am I going to get out of here?
You got to calm yourself down.
You're going to have toimprovise something to get you where
you can be mobile again.
And you got to just take yourtime and little steps and get out.
And it's, it's, it's amazingwhat your mind can overcome where
a lot of times people justpanic, rev.

(46:27):
And I'm telling you, I've beenin situations where, I mean, take
my job, for instance.
It's snowing.
You can't see 10ft out infront of you, you got a $250,000
brand new Mac underneath you,and you're going, God, let me get
through this storm.
I don't want to wreck this truck.
I don't want to hurt nobody,and I damn sure don't want to hurt
myself.

(46:48):
Right.
But you got to take yourselfout of that situation.
You got to just see everythingthrough and then perform it.
And if you can just slowyourself down enough to do that,
it's amazing what you could do.
It goes into archery.
It goes into anything that you do.
Taking a long shot with a rifle.
Like I said, when you're outbackpacking, you know, the inevitable
happens.
Something happens, or one ofyour guys get hurt.

(47:10):
You know, you don't fixanything by panicking.
You got to stop, you know, andslow yourself down and put everything
in order.
And if you can do that, you'llbe successful.
Well said.
Well said.
Last topic before we wrap itup here soon.
Is survival.
Anything that you've kind oftrained for or that you kind of prepared

(47:33):
for in yourself to.
In case you put in a survivalsituation, anything that you kind
of give us advice on.
Yeah, I've been thinkingthrough this.
Like, we actually had a.
You guys were mentioned, like, the.
The preppers before, and we.
I had a prepper on my show afew weeks back, and the show is all
about, like, I'm gonna playthe role of, like, an ultralight

(47:55):
backpacker.
He's playing the role,obviously, of a prepper, and we're
just gonna, like, spout ateach other the most offensive things
that we could say to try tokind of rile each other up, basically
making fun of each other.
And so I really kind ofprocess through this idea of survival.
And I don't know where we'reat with that, because we have, like,
the emergency SOS on a lot ofphones, so you don't even need a

(48:17):
separate device to callemergency SOS and then we have so
much in the way of search andrescue nowadays.
Like, the scenario whereyou're like, okay, I'm lost in the
woods.
I've gotta survive for anextended period of time.
That could definitely happen.
I just don't think it's very common.
So in.
In processing through that,I'm just, like, learning survival

(48:39):
skills.
I mean, you look at theseshows, like we mentioned before,
with, like, dual survival.
They're making shelters,they're making fires.
They're making all these things.
But typically, like, if you'reout there and you're planning to
go on a backcountry Hunt.
Like you're gonna have a tent,you're gonna have matches, you're
gonna have fuel with this, youknow, for stove.
So I don't know how relevantit is.
Like one of the comments Imade to him was like, you know, really

(48:59):
all that survival stuff andlike the show alone is just like
LARPing.
It's live action roleplay.
Because there's not, there'snot a lot of scenarios that actually
happen.
And he didn't really have arebuttal on that.
So I don't know what, like,like what scenarios have you guys
encountered or are youthinking of where you're like, we're
in a real survival situation here.
Well, that was gonna be.
My next question is based offof those like dual survival type

(49:21):
shows.
And alone like we werementioning, do you see those happening
a lot where it's like, all right.
I mean, because I was, Iwatched those, I'm like, what are
the chances of my 3, 000backup plans of fire starting kits
or whatever I have in mybackpack just gonna miraculously
disappear and all I have is mypocket knife.

(49:44):
I gotta make survival through.
Like what are the chances ofthat really happening?
I mean, the closest thing iswhat the squash mentioned where you're
out and you're not planning tobe in the, you know, in the backcountry
late and then you get lost andnow you've gotta find your way back.
But let's say you can't findyour way back.
Right.
And so typically people havetheir phone with them, they can do
the emergency SOS thing, butthat kind of goes back to like leaving

(50:07):
your itinerary with folks likewhere are you going?
What are you doing?
And then if you don't havethat, I mean this is like a lot of
what ifs, like what if this happens?
And then you don't have thisand they don't have this.
It's kind of like worst casescenario stuff, right?
Yeah.
So like when people are, aredying in the backcountry, it's not
because they've been lost andthey're starving to death.

(50:27):
Like the most common wayspeople are dying are typically they're
taking a fall from some sortof height, they've injured themselves
or they've, they've beenknocked out or something like that
where they're just nonresponsive and, and those survival
skills aren't necessarilyrelevant in those circumstances.
So drowning is also up therewhere you just like you're trying
to cross river, you get sweptaway or maybe it's just.

(50:48):
Yeah, injuries from that.
But yeah, I don't.
I don't know.
Like, one of my.
One of my worst case scenariosI think about is if I fall right,
you know, I mean, I'm tetheredin with a saddle.
You're still kind of have a.
You can, you can fall, youknow, climbing your sticks, using
your lineman's belt whenyou're in a fix stand.

(51:09):
I mean, you're wearing asafety harness.
But I mean, for years I didn't.
I. I hated them.
It was something on me.
I just couldn't stand.
Now, now I'm getting older.
I mean, I want to come backhome to my family and stuff.
I think a little different.
But back in the day, I was30ft up in a tree with nothing around
me, and thank God I'm still here.

(51:29):
I mean, it could have beenbad, but.
But even in those situations,you think.
About how if something, sayyou fall or something breaks as you're
climbing, maybe one of thesteps twist and give out and you.
You fall to the ground, youbreak a leg, you know, you, you.
That stuff runs through mymind all the time.
Or, you know, maybe.

(51:50):
Maybe I cut myself really badwith a broadhead or a knife or something
like that while I'm out there.
Or God forbid, the inevitable.
Maybe somebody shoots youthinking you're a game, you know,
and it's.
Maybe it's not mortally awound, but maybe it's bad enough
where you got to get your asshome, you know, you got to think
about these things, you know,and it's like, okay, well, I know

(52:11):
I wear a belt.
I can always make a tourniquetto, you know, cut that circulation
off to stop a massive, youknow, bleed out or something like
that.
I'm sure with you, Carl, asmuch as you backpack, you, you, you
do stuff with first aid, youmust keep stuff on you for first
aid or, you know, something.
And there's.
There's another scenario, youknow, it's like, well, how much first

(52:33):
aid do I pack in my bag to be realistic?
You know?
It's like, not much.
Like.
No, yeah, not much.
I mean, it's like mainly Adviland band aids, right?
Like you're trying to go.
I mean, we got more than that,but you gotta know how to use that
stuff, too.
So I guess if you're reallytrying to prepare.
Getting back to the original question.
Yeah, taking like a.
Some sort of wilderness firstaid class is.
Isn't to be helpful there,there's not a lot of scenarios if

(52:55):
you read people that are, youknow, that either pass away in the
woods or get, you know, get lost.
There's not a lot of scenarioswhere people are losing their backpacks.
So whether you're going for aday hike or you're going for overnight,
like having the essentials outthere, whether you know, you're warm
enough, you got shelter, yougot emergency fire, you've got food,
you can last for a long time.
And then the biggest mistakepeople make, I would say, is like,

(53:20):
survival mistake is getting lost.
And typically the bestsolution if you're like, lost, lost,
you really don't know youwhere you are.
It's not like a simplebacktrack is you just got to stay
put.
And if you say put, you'retypically going to be found.
Not always, but typically.
Yeah.
Last.
Last question here would bethose moments where it's like, well,

(53:42):
what's edible and what's not edible?
Give me something like thatthat's like, well, crap, I don't
have any granola bars in mybackpack and I'm starving.
Give me something real quick.
Before we end this show,what's edible.
And what's not edible.
Like, hey, you should probablyknow this in your own two brains
of like, all right, look outfor this type of deal.
This is why you guys arehunters, right?

(54:03):
You just go hunt something andcan eat it.
Well, apparently, if you'relike me, you're not good hunter.
So, yeah, I'm not a survivalist.
I think you got confused.
I don't know.
I don't know what's edible.
Like.
Like, there's.
I mean, I just.
I probably know as much as youguys from watching those.
Those, like, survival shows.
You're like, oh, I don't know.
You can eat that.
But if you're talking, like,there's five mushrooms in front of
you and four of them are safeand one's poisonous, I got no idea.

(54:25):
I don't know either, man.
My solution is don't eat the mushrooms.
Right?
Like, that's always my thing too.
Is like, I'm not gonna eat that.
Right.
Let me ask you this, though.
Let me say you are stuck outin the woods.
I'm.
I've seen Cody eat worms.
Yeah.
Would you eat worms?
Grubs?
Worms?
Yeah, yeah.
Like maggots and all that stuff.
I'm hungry enough.

(54:46):
Yeah, no, no, not the maggotsand stuff.
Because, like, those, like,big, fat, juicy ones.
Those ones actually didn'tlook too bad if you cooked them up.
I'm talking about earthwormsfrom the ground.
Like, are we assuming we have Fire.
We could like cook them up.
Or are you talking about.
You got.
You got them in a bowl andyou're starving.
Yeah.
And you have a little like oldschool 1950s veterans Vietnam War

(55:09):
helmet with water.
And you got a bunch ofearthworms in there.
Yeah.
That's good.
You gotta eat them raw.
Are you gonna do it?
I think I would, but I think I would.
I would kill them first.
Like, I don't want themwriggling around as they're going
down your throat.
That's just.
No, Cody ate them raw with.
Nut with.
They were.
I'm not trying to be Cody.
I don't care.
I don't care what he.
I'm not gonna walk aroundbarefoot and be like, give me a live
earthworm.

(55:31):
And it's just.
You see it just like movingall the way around.
Yeah.
You can't do that.
From a lot of the stuff thatI've read and, and talked to people
when I was prepping and stuff.
A good rule of thumb is ifyou're not sure, try a little tiny
bit of something.
Wait like 10, 15, 20 minutes.
Right, right.
If that's like the same thingwhen it comes to water, like, you're

(55:53):
much rather you're gonna befound with water than you.
Yes.
Compared to being dead.
Do I not.
You're better off of likecholera or one of those bacterias
and maybe, you know, takingyour chances, you know, drinking
it.
But you know, you, you, you.
It's better than dehydrating, man.
I mean.
Yeah.
And don't get me wrong, mostof those things, most of that bacteria

(56:15):
in there, what's it gonna do,make you throw up and poop your pants
a lot?
Just remember, really, that'sof kind to mostly happen.
The odds are going to get oneof those other ones going to kill
you.
You can drink your urine once.
Yeah, once.
Okay, I gotta stop.
Okay.
How did this devolve to thesetyp of questions?
You're like, got a backpackingguy, he goes hiking.
He probably knows aboutdrinking your own pee.

(56:36):
Carl, what happened?
Automatically assumed you'reJoe Ty from.
You know, I mean, we, weusually got hunters on this show
and it's.
We're like, oh, we've gotsomebody who backpacks and out in
the wilderness.
I mean.
Yeah, he's a survival expert.
He's gotta be.
I mean, I can, I can re.
We've had some of those aloneguys on our show.
I think we had like three orfour of the alone contestants.

(56:57):
I think we've had a winner onor Whatever.
So I can just like rehash whatthey're saying.
But a lot of it.
Yeah.
Like, I don't know, a lot ofit's like, I'm not gonna ever be
in that situation.
Like, that's just not arealistic scenario.
Unless there's like, unlessthere's the apocalypse.
Right.
Like then all bets are off.
Now all of that stuff's relevant.
Yeah.
Anything, anything flies in man.
Right, Right.
Yeah.

(57:18):
Michael a fan of the show?
A little bag here.
He says, I'm leaving them hanging.
He's asking, where's Carl from?
He's from Colorado.
Colorado.
If you're paying attentionfrom the beginning, Michael is our,
well, 15 year old fan now ofthe show.
He's 15 now.
That's awesome.
He had beginning when he firstwas watching the show.
He'd always ask the guests ifthey ever tried possum.

(57:39):
We finally found a guestabout, what was it, 15, 20 episodes
ago now they tried possum.
So we told him he's banned nowfrom asking that stupid question
because we're tired of it.
So there's.
Oh, here's a question fromMike McCrum.
Yeah, he's.
He's one of our guys.
Ask her about pajama pants.

(58:00):
Mike, why are you like, Ididn't know you were a hunter.
That's hilarious.
I don't know how important,how impressive this is of a story,
but my co host, so we, youknow, we're trying to pack ultralight
and he always packs these likerando luxury items.
And so he'll, you know, atcamp everybody's got their cool backpacking

(58:23):
gear and he, he comes out withpajama pants on.
So he just looks like he'slike lounging around his living room.
There you go.
And we went on a trip toCatalina island off the coast of
California this past April.
And I just said, you knowwhat, all the gear, all the stuff
that I've been making fun offor years, I'm gonna bring all of
it.
I'm gonna see if there'sactually anything that changes my
mind.
And so I brought just likestuff that's ridiculously heavy and

(58:43):
just, I don't know, everythingyou could think of.
And one of the, one of theitems was pajama pants.
And actually Mike was on thattrip and he brought pajama pants
too.
It's kind of funny.
And all the gear that I'vebeen making fun of for years, I was
like, this is so dumb.
I would never bring this.
Except for the pajama pants.
They were for whatever Reason,super comfortable.
You're cold outside, so.
Yep, that's a story.

(59:03):
I don't know if that's veryimpressive, but.
No, it's perfect.
No, I get it.
I've.
I've gone on hunting trips andbrought my slippers.
So it's like, you know.
Yeah, that's what he would bring.
Like, you know, if you'resitting in your tent, you're like,
ah, man, I throw my slippers on.
I'm nice and cozy now.
Right, right.
What is it?
So we go to my buddy's cabinup here in the end of the New Year's,

(59:25):
around that ballpark.
And what do I gotta bring?
I gotta bring these moccasins.
I love these things.
They're nice and comfy andthey're so soft.
Right when we're in hot thehouse in the middle of winter, we're
just chilling.
I got my nice soft moccasins on.
Everybody's got their creaturecomforts, for sure.
I, Yeah, I don't typicallywear pajama pants.
I still think it's kind of.

(59:45):
I wear sweatshirts now eversince my buddy showed me those about
two years ago.
I bought like five pairs ofthese sweatshirts.
I love them.
Yeah.
So.
So soft.
Just.
Anyway, just be ready for, forIndiana, Brett, because I sleep in
the nude.
I want to make sure I sleepmiles away from you.
If I have to sleep on my treestand, I'm going to do it.
I got my own fur.

(01:00:06):
My own fur.
I just stay warm.
I'm.
I'm good.
I can't sleep with shit on.
I feel like I'm beingstrangled, man.
And that.
And you know what's funnyabout that is it's a controversial
thought that like some peoplewill say, they've been saying for
years, like, you sleep withoutclothes on your sleeping bag, you
actually stay warmer.
And some people say, nope, yougot more layers on, you got more
insulation.
You'll stay warmer with thelayers on.

(01:00:26):
And if you throw that idea outto whether it's the hunting community,
backpacking community, you'regonna get 50% saying one thing, 50
saying the other thing, andboth will have science backing it
up.
And so it's the weirdest thing.
It is, it is, yeah.
Well, Carl, thank you so muchfor being our survival expert.
One on one type dude.
That's right.

(01:00:47):
I don't think I answered asingle question about survival, but
happy to join the show for sure.
Ah, man, it was, it was good.
It was good.
I mean, we got a little offtrack here and there, but that's
what this show's about.
We just kind of like make youthink it's going to be one way and
then all of a sudden we'reover here, so.
Right, right.
It's funny.
Well, Carl, thank you so muchfor coming on the show and taking
time out of your schedule.
We greatly appreciate it foranyone that wants to reach out to

(01:01:09):
you.
How.
How can they do that?
Following your journey.
Yeah, Backpacking Vision podcast.
We're.
We kind of bill ourselves astips and tails with a sense of humor
and so we're always goofingaround and yeah, we're just available
in all the audio apps.
We're on YouTube as well, butmainly audio apps is where people
find us.
So just backpacking the blisters.
Yeah, thanks for asking.
Sweet.
Squatch, even though theremight be one person out there that

(01:01:30):
might want to figure out whereyou're at, how can they that one
person find you?
Hey, look, you know, if it'sone person, I'm happy that's one
more than, you know, a lot ofpeople got.
You guys all know, always onthis show here on, you know, Sundays
and Tuesdays, you can find meon the Boondocks, you know, guys
podcast there with Mike andFrank and you know, the Instagram

(01:01:53):
channel and, and the YouTube channel.
And I appreciate all each andevery one of you, like usual, man,
you guys are the best.
Yeah, they're awesome out there.
Thank you guys so much forcoming on the show tonight.
Squatch, you're basically mandatory.
But Carl, thank you for comingon the show, man.
We greatly appreciate it.
Thanks for the invite.
Appreciate it.
Nice to meet you.
Have a great rest of thenight, guys.
Oh, man.
And Michael right here.

(01:02:13):
What's he saying in this comment?
Look up Brett at.
Brett loves giving guys blowjobs.
Underscore69.
All right, Michael, that was agood one.
I'll give you that one.
That was a good one.
Well, everyone, that's goingto conclude an episode of the Whitetail
Advantage podcast.
We greatly appreciate everyonegathering around the electronic campfire.

(01:02:34):
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(01:02:54):
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(01:03:14):
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Thank you for tuning in to another.
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