In this episode, I talk to my friend, Jenna, whom I met in our freshman year of college. We instantly hit it off. To start, we walk through Jenna’s timeline towards motherhood. We get into the many factors that affected her timeline to grow her family, including FOMO, and her career. We’re both millennials, so you just know we’re talking about the 2008 Great Recession. Then, we get into how our friendship has shifted now that she has kids. I reveal some guilt I’ve been holding onto. We both share tips on how to maintain a friendship through this phase of life. She surprises me with a review of how I’m doing as a friend and aunt. Overall, Jenna thinks life is weird and may have figured out one of the keys to life!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
Hi, you're listening to Who SetsThis Clock?
I'm the podcast creator and hostMarguerite.
On this podcast, I talk with my guests about the life paths we
take or don't take when it comesto having kids, along with other
types of set of clocks that tickaround us.
I have candid personal conversations with people from a
wide range of perspectives including parents, guardians,
(00:28):
those who are child free, child less, undecided, hoping to have
kids one day, and more. I hope to explore our how our
relationship shift when friends and family start to have kids.
New episodes come out every Thursday.
Thanks for joining me today. Last week I launched the pod.
I'm hearing great feedback that already makes this podcast feel
(00:48):
worthwhile already. My hope in launching this
podcast was for others to hear relatable stories, to think
about different perspectives, tolaugh along, or to feel less
alone. Please reach out to me anytime
if you want to talk about any ofthese topics or anything you
heard on this podcast. I would love to hear from you.
All right, let's get into today's episode.
(01:13):
I'm here with my friend Jenna. I've known her since college and
I just did the math today and realize we've known each other
for about 20 years, which is quite incredible.
And I'm excited to talk to her today about motherhood, her
timelines in life. Also, really navigating our
friendship over the years, especially as she's ready to
(01:34):
have children. And then I made a decision,
decision not to have children. So yeah, I want to really get
into how we've grown together over different stages in life.
So I'm really excited to have Jenna join me today.
So hi, Jenna, how are you? Hi, thanks for having me.
I'm good excited. Yeah, I'm excited to jump in.
Yeah, I think let's start with tell me a little bit about
(01:56):
yourself, our listeners, like what age you are, who you live
with. I know you have children, so
also how many children you have.Sure.
Yeah. So I'm 38.
I live with my husband and my two kids.
My daughter Maddie is five and Layla will be 3 soon.
Yeah, she's she has a birthday coming up.
Yeah. Marine three and five.
(02:17):
Oh my gosh. OK, Yeah.
So you have little children and I wanted to know when you
started to think about starting a family, when did that first
come up for you? I.
Always knew that I wanted to have a family.
I come from a very big Irish Italian Catholic family, so I'm
the oldest of five kids. I have dozens of cousins.
(02:40):
So it just kind of was a no brainer for me.
It was interesting though. I my parents, they met in
college, they got married literally the summer after
college. They had me a year later.
So kind of my framework was like, you're supposed to meet
your husband in college, You're supposed to have kids right
after. Thankfully, they never pressured
(03:01):
me that way, but I still, you know, you get socialized to
certain ideas. So that's kind of how I thought
my life was going to go. I always thought that 28 was the
perfect age to have a kid. I don't know why I picked that,
but I thought that was when how it was going to happen.
And then I started hitting different ages and realizing,
(03:21):
whoa, I'm not ready at all. So I started to push timelines
back a little bit, and I'm glad that I did.
Yeah, I distinctly remember we would talk about like having
kids and you have like a very clear time, like at 28, I'm on
my first one and then like at maybe like 30, I'll have my
second one. And I was like, secretly I was
(03:42):
like, wow, she has her life figured out.
She knows her timelines. She knows exactly when.
And I was like, yeah, I'll have kids someday.
Like, sure, yeah, that's something that sticks out.
I was like you, you knew like, or you, you had this plan in
your, in your head at 25. For me, I was like, I, I am
think I can start having kids. It's an appropriate age in my
(04:03):
head, but I, I don't want like, I'm not ready at all to have
kids or even start to think about it.
And also we're the oldest kids of our family too.
So I think that's something relatable to like seeing big
families and then also caring for little ones and being part
of that kind of larger family aswell.
Yeah. Definitely.
(04:24):
OK, so you were you like turned around 28 and so So what changed
around that and what changed as you started to get into your
later 20s and you're you're thinking about your timeline.
And he said, wait, I'm not, I'm not ready.
Yeah, I I met my husband or my now husband in college, so kind
of checked that box in my mind and we were having such a good
(04:48):
time just having it be the two of us.
And I realized we don't need to add anyone into the mix yet.
Let's enjoy ourselves. It also, we graduated in 2008,
which, you know, was a rough time to graduate.
So that kind of put a damper. Yeah, like put a damper on a lot
of plans that we thought. I thought after graduating from
(05:10):
college, you know, you were promised you'll get to go,
you'll get a great job right away.
And that sure didn't happen because the whole economy was
crashed. So it just also did not feel
like the right time to add anyone else into the mix.
It didn't feel like the right time to have a wedding.
So we just kind of were enjoyingbeing young and in love and just
the two of us and not putting any pressure on anything.
(05:32):
Yeah, that makes sense. That was a really rough time.
He just thought whatever job that you could.
So that makes sense that you're like, this is I'm not going to
go to plan because of how the current state of things.
And I do love too that you're, you know, you had a partner, so
you're thinking about how that how that would be together.
As you were. As you were aging too.
(05:53):
Yeah, OK, Yeah, and we sure did enjoy your time.
Love that for both of you. Wait, So what age were you when
you first had? Well, five years from now.
So like 33 was when you had yourfirst kid?
Yes. I was 32 with Maddie and 35 with
(06:14):
Layla. Yeah.
So essentially, yeah. It was like when we finally did
feel ready to get married, I was26.
It was right after grad school, so I felt like we were more
established. We were kind of ready to get
married. Also that year, I think we also
went to eight other weddings. So it was like all of my, not
(06:35):
all, but a lot of friends decided that year like, OK,
we're ready to grow up. So it's like we all kind of did
it at the same time. And some of them started having
kids, some of them didn't. And we, again, still didn't
really feel ready. I had, I was just starting my
career. I got my job at the nonprofit
where I still work. I was getting the chance to
(06:57):
travel for work. So again, it was kind of like, I
don't want to give this up. I'm not ready to add kids into
this mix and it really does impact when a lot of people
around you are not having them. Like I didn't want to be the
first one. I didn't want to be left out.
Really like fun things that werehappening.
So that was definitely another. Factor.
(07:19):
I didn't know that. That's so interesting.
Yeah. You don't you want to be the
first one getting married or or having kids.
To have kids. To have kids, OK, because all
your friends are getting married, but you're like, OK,
then it's like the next step would be having kids.
OK. OK.
Yeah. Oh, well, I didn't.
Yeah, I did not know that. Yeah.
But yeah, that's that's really interesting that you're like
waiting for other people to I guess to share that part of of
(07:42):
their life with your life too. Yeah, totally like to share it,
but also like totally honest FOMO.
I'm like, all of us were living our like young travel lives.
I didn't want to be the first one who was stuck at home with
the baby when my friends were all still getting together and
going out and that kind of stuff.
So it definitely made it easier,like when some of my friends
(08:05):
started having kids and I started to see, OK, this is what
it would look like now I could be a part of this community and
I won't feel like I'm missing out on other things.
OK, so now you're going that stage of your life, you got
married, had kids, and then now we're in our late 30s, which is
like crazy to say. Yeah.
(08:27):
How do you feel about where you are now?
And I guess also part of that question is like what you kind
of imagine your life to be at around this age, kind of back of
like thinking about your late 30s if you did.
And then yeah, how do you imagine it as well?
Yeah, so weird because I, you know, did think at some point
(08:49):
about what would it be like to be 40, But back then I'm like,
I'll be an old person, I won't care.
And now like 40 is not even close.
To old. No, it's not old at all.
Not even close. But yeah.
So I mean, I guess I did imaginemyself as like two kids in a
house in a white picket fence and doing PTA and all those
(09:11):
things. So in that way, my life is sort
of how I imagined. I definitely didn't imagine
though, because I thought I would have kids a little bit
younger, like when I was younger.
I mean, I didn't imagine having essentially toddlers close to my
40s. That comes with a whole slew of
(09:31):
issues. It's nice in some ways.
I mean, where I live, most parents tend to be a little bit
older, so we certainly don't feel like I'm an outlier in that
respect. But we all kind of joke
together. We're like, is this
perimenopause? Is this because we're
breastfeeding? Is are my joints falling apart
(09:51):
because I'm almost 40 or becauseof breastfeeding hormones?
So nature doesn't necessarily want you having young kids.
This old. I literally threw out my back
trying to stop Layla from falling so that was really fun
and embarrassing. Like 3 days like what's that?
When did that happen? Is that recent?
(10:13):
Yeah, over the summer, we were on vacation, of course.
So yeah, she was running down the street.
She started to fall. I reached down too fast to grab
her, and my back was just like, and like, I know I was like
Andres. I can't move the rest.
Is that bad? Oh yeah.
Oh, geez. It was like, I mean, like your
(10:35):
arms kind of get stuck and you have to waddle walk.
So for the whole next yeah, three days, I'm just like waddle
walking as we're trying to do our sightseeing.
It is what it is. But yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely
feeling my age sometimes. But it's also, it's good and it
(10:56):
my life for the most part. Yeah.
I feel like we're finally in a good groove, which I'm going.
Good. Yeah.
I also feel like I've been thinking a lot about, like, I've
even read some articles about how your mind might feel younger
than your body and how that happens when you get older too.
Because mentally I don't feel what I thought it would be at
(11:19):
38. I don't know, Maybe I feel like
I would be more adult. I don't even know what that
really means, but I feel like young still.
Like, I don't know. I feel like, feel like a lot to
learn. Yeah, how I mentioned I thought
they really, really wise and like, I don't know, just it's
hard to like really know exactlywhat I would, what an adult is.
But yeah, I don't really feel that.
(11:40):
Yeah. And I'm like, right now, I would
have felt that way. Totally.
Yeah, No, same. I totally resonate with that.
Or like when someone calls you ma'am and you look over your
shoulder, like who are you talking to?
I know it's not me. I'm practically a teenager.
I am nowhere near being a ma'am.So like, how dare you?
(12:02):
OK. I think just getting into other
milestones, you know, I think you've already touched on this
about, you know, having the white pick a fence and the two
kids and getting married. But you know, is there any
pressure that you felt for any other milestones in your life?
Yeah, I mean, I felt pressure all along, thankfully, again,
(12:24):
not really from my parents. You know, there are a lot of
people whose parents really pressure them to have kids.
My parents, maybe because they did have us pretty young, they
were kind of the opposite. They always encourage us, like,
finish your education, do everything that you want to do
before you bring kids into the picture.
(12:45):
But you know, there's still, like I said, like internalized
pressure, also biological pressure.
They scare you so much. Like it's going to be impossible
to get pregnant after you're 30.By the time you're 35, you're at
high risk of all sorts of things.
So it's also like even when I wasn't emotionally feeling
ready, I was like, OK, I don't want not to be able to have
(13:08):
kids. So got to find that sweet spot
there. I mean, the house thing, I'm
sure this will resonate with every millennial.
This is like we're the worst generation ever trying to get
our own housing. It's crazy.
Like we just came home owners literally a couple months ago
and I sure thought that was going to happen a lot sooner.
(13:28):
But again, like tough our generation and especially maybe
you should do an episode on this.
I read an article about the micro generation.
But literally those of us who graduated in 2008 and sort of in
1009, who missed out on all sorts of earning potential
because we graduated right when everything was bad.
(13:51):
And by the time it bounced back,they didn't want us.
They wanted the kids who were just coming out of college.
They didn't like that we have been waitressing for the past
two years even though we didn't.Wow.
Yeah, I've not heard about that,that.
I didn't think about that. Oh, good.
So we just had layers of, of of things.
Yeah, no. Sorry, kind of went off topic.
(14:12):
But no, it's OK. So, so interesting.
Yeah, but thanks for sharing, like the biological and mental
parts of those things because, yeah, women have to think about
their bodies and their aging bodies and what the doctors are
telling them, but also where youare at your life.
So there's a lot of things goingon and things you have to figure
(14:33):
out because you're up against the timeline, too.
So yeah, those are all factors for sure.
OK. So jumping into motherhood, it's
been a real joy to see you become a mother and raise your
two girls. Like I just absolutely love,
like seeing all the mothers in my life, like really come into
(14:56):
motherhood and just, yeah, you like you're a different person.
Like I've known you in 2020 years now.
But yeah, just seeing you over the years and being with the
girls have been, yeah. It's just really fun, fun to
watch. Yeah.
So I think I'll start with what's your favorite thing about
motherhood? So many things.
So many things. Yeah.
(15:16):
I mean, it's super cheesy, but honestly, like, the love that
you feel for them is just so unfathomable.
Like, people tell you that that's going to happen.
And it's like, yeah, I get it. Like, I love my family members,
but it's something that's totally different.
It's like I just want to be staring at them every second of
(15:37):
every day. And even when they're making me
furious, my reaction is like, I just want to wrap them up into a
huge hug. Like, Mother Nature is
definitely doing her job making sure that I don't get too mad at
these little munchkins. Yeah.
And I actually had a really funny experience.
Like early in my postpartum, I had this kind of revelation
(16:01):
about how much my mom loves me and I like called her crying,
like apologizing. Like mom, I never knew how much
you love me. Like I know you love me, but I
just, I never understood how deep it was and now I get it.
So I'm sorry for the things thatI did to you and all of that.
(16:22):
So it's like, it's kind of cool,but it really just like, yeah,
it kind of like puts the rest ofyour life into perspective too.
And it's really changed my relationship with my mom.
Like, we've always had a really close, amazing relationship.
I'm lucky my mom's the best. But afterwards, it's like now
that I'm a mom, we understand each other on a totally
(16:45):
different level. It's like much deeper.
So I just think that's really cool too.
It's like I have this incrediblerelationship with my kids and
it's like added this whole otherdimension to this other really
important relationship in my life.
Yeah, perspective shift too. That's amazing.
That's so nice. I never heard any.
Well, I've I've heard people saylike, yeah, they change the
(17:07):
relationship with their mom, butyeah, that's a new perspective
for me. It's like it opens your eyes to
what your mom went through and the love that she had.
When did that happen? Like, was that recently or when
you first became a mother? No, yeah, that was like early,
like I want to say first month or two probably.
(17:28):
Yeah. I was still like flooded with
hormones. I mean, I still, I still will
have that, like, overwhelming feeling for my mom that I'm
like, I have to call her and tell her I love her.
She's so great. And just watching her be a
grandma is like the greatest joy.
Like, you don't even realize that part, too.
Like watching your parents get to, like, be cute with little
(17:48):
kids all over again. Yeah.
Yeah. That's amazing.
That's great. Thank you for sharing that.
And then another question about motherhood.
Was there anything that caught you off guard?
Many things. Yeah.
So many things. Yeah.
It's so funny because I spent most of my teen years
(18:10):
babysitting and nannying, so I thought, you know, I know what
to do with kids, but it's very different when you have your
own. And I think the main thing that
really caught me off guard was Iwas not expecting to be the kind
of helicopter parent that I am. I thought I was gonna be super
chill, Like, yeah, I'm gonna be.The cold break I just.
(18:31):
Worry about it? Exactly.
Yeah, I was like, yeah, I'm not going to stress about stuff.
It's fine. I know that every kid is their
own person and they hit their milestones and then you're in it
yourself and you're some of it'sthe hormones again, but some of
it is just, you know, it's different when it's your own
kids and every little thing makes you feel worried.
It sure didn't help that the pandemic started six months into
(18:55):
my motherhood journey, so all the little health worries that
you think about all of a sudden became super amplified.
Not sure that my mental health will ever recover fully from the
fear that I felt. And, you know, being locked in
and then not having the support,being kind of locked in that
bubble where it was just me and Andres and her and my parents
(19:17):
would come over every once in a while outside.
They couldn't hold Madeline. Yeah, that part was definitely
really hard. I also thought I would be a lot
more career focused, like I was planning on getting right back
in there. And I did go back to work right
away, but it was very begrudgingly.
I thought that I was going to belike, super ready to go back.
(19:39):
And instead it was like, no, please, I want to stay home with
my baby. And I was totally planning on
getting back into my work traveland thought like, yeah, I could
leave her for a week. And then once I saw her little
face, I'm like, I'm never leaving this baby.
Never ever again. She must be glued to my body.
Yeah. Yeah, cuz you when you travel
(20:01):
for work, it can be like one to two weeks at a time, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, a long time. Right, Yep.
And I just thought that I was going to want to do it and
absolutely did not, did not wantto leave those kiddos.
It's different now and it's a little sad with the second kid,
you're, you know, you're kind ofmore used to things.
So I left her a lot earlier thanI left my first.
(20:24):
But it's good. It's good you find yourself like
the parts of you that you want to come back.
They do come back. And that's like a really
important thing with motherhood.It's like you feel in the
beginning like you've totally lost yourself.
And some ways it's good, like, you know, because all your
attention is focused on this baby.
And in other ways it's really bad.
You're like, who am I? I worked so hard for my career
(20:47):
and now if given the opportunity, I would throw it
all away just to to be at home. But yeah, it's like slowly those
parts do come back if you want them to, which has been nice.
Yeah, I heard that from mothers too, other mothers as well, like
trying to find your interests and who you are again, cuz your
time and attention is so focusedon other little people.
(21:08):
So yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, I'm just hearing you talk
about that too. It's it just makes me realize
too that you don't really know what's going to happen until it
happens. So you can have a plan and
you're like, wait, this is that's not how I was going to.
I thought it was going to go andthen you just pivot and change.
Exactly. That is such a big deal.
(21:30):
I actually now volunteer for a local mom's group teaching baby
classes. And that's essentially our main
take away is like, you can prepare all you want, but your
baby's going to be who they are.You have no idea how you're
going to react to different things, so you got to be
flexible. Flexible.
Yeah, that makes sense. OK, some people have said that
(21:52):
your legacy is your children, but I feel like that's an insult
to people that don't have kids. So I would love to know what
you're like, what you want your legacy to be like, What do you
want to be remembered for? Because it's your your own
human. Yeah, that's beautiful.
And if I may share a quick story, it's funny that you asked
(22:12):
this question because I literally just about two weeks
ago had this discussion with another childless friend where
she was. We were talking about why she
didn't end up having kids. And same thing she said.
People kept telling her, but what's your legacy going to be?
And she's an incredible human who started her own nonprofit.
She's helped so many people. And so, yeah, it was like, I'm
(22:35):
insulted on her behalf that someone would say, what's your
legacy like? What more could we possibly ask
of her? And same for you, like your
legacy is the all of the people who you have welcomed into your
circle and made a part of your chosen family, which is so, so
(22:55):
beautiful. I hope that I can have some of
an impact like that as well. I hope, I hope that I do raise
two really great children who are successful and kind and who
add something of value to this world.
(23:16):
And I hope I leave behind some value for the lives that I've
been a part of. I feel, I mean, I'm passionate
about my career as well. I think that that's having an
impact on people. So as long as I leave the world
a tiny bit better than it was when I came into it, I'll feel
like I left behind a good legacy.
(23:38):
That's amazing. Yeah.
You're, you do amazing work too.Your job is pretty incredible.
And I feel like you help people all the time.
And yeah, you're just being partof my life has made an impact.
So I think, yeah, you're gonna leave a beautiful legacy.
And yeah, like how you pointed out that your kids are part of
it. Your kids are definitely still
part of your legacy. It's just not all of you.
Exactly. Yeah, maybe we could do a
(24:00):
second, a second episode about motherhood too, like just
getting into that cuz I feel like we could do a whole like a
whole episode about that. Yeah.
I want to get into because we have that relationship dynamic
of 1 friend has a kid and one doesn't.
And I think about that a lot on top of not having kids and how
(24:22):
to navigate that in a society where a lot of people do have
kids around this time. I think I want to go into kind
of in our early 20s when we met,you know, at that time, I, I
was, I thought I was going to have kids.
I deep down I was like unsure. But I also felt societal
pressure of like, OK, that's thenext thing you do.
You go to college and you have kids.
(24:42):
So yeah, I and I will talk aboutthat later about how it came to
that decision of not having kids.
But we, we both definitely talked about having kids.
And again, you're the one that had me think about the timeline
like 2028 and like ages and stuff.
So you were pretty hardcore about it.
(25:03):
So that really got me in my head, but I also felt like, OK,
I have time, like 20 is far away, like I'm 2122.
And so then I went the total really untraditional route and I
got married and eloped and I didn't have a big wedding and
then I didn't have kids. So I do feel a little guilt of
like not being that friend that went the traditional way.
(25:24):
And then I kind of like said, I was so like, I, I know you're OK
with it and I know you would never put like that guilt on me,
but I was like, wow, that I totally changed everything.
And like, I could imagine us like me having kids.
And then I do feel out kind of like what would happen if I can
have my kids and like play with my friends kids.
Like that moment. I I'm grieving that moment too,
(25:46):
because that's something I have thought about as well.
But I'm still OK with my decision.
I'm still OK with my decision not to have kids because it's
really been fun to be an aunt and to be and I would say like a
mother to my friends kids as well because I feel like there's
different ways to be a mother and also be part of motherhood.
And so yeah, it's, I'm really glad to be part of your girls
(26:08):
lives and my friends with kids as well.
You know, we won't, we went in two different directions.
And so yeah, I think I want to get into like your feelings
about that 'cause I don't think,I don't know if I ever like told
you like, yeah, I'm not going tohave kids.
Like I don't kind of remember a specific conversation at some
point I must have told you. So I'm going to get into your
(26:29):
thoughts and feelings about about that part about me not
wanting kids and then you're thinking about having kids in
your life. Yeah, definitely.
And thanks for sharing that. I didn't realize, I had never
really thought I guess about like, carrying guilt around the
decision too. Yeah.
So yeah, that's really eye opening.
Thanks for sharing that. I definitely do remember when
(26:50):
you told me you weren't having kids.
I don't remember where we were or what I but I remember the
feeling. I remember being like, oh, OK.
Like that's definitely a pivot from what I had thought.
I know a lot of people are choosing not to have kids these
days. So like, you know, it's not
totally shocking, but at the same time, of course, I was a
(27:12):
little surprised just because wehad talked about it.
And I don't want to add to your guilt at all that you and Zach
are just such wonderful people that it would be really amazing
to have little copies of you in the world.
But like you said, like you're having such a deep impact on
other people's lives in other ways and having other ways of
leaving really beautiful things in the world.
(27:33):
So yeah, I really applaud you 2 for making that decision, for
doing what's right for you and for really stepping into that
role, being so supportive with your nieces and all of your
adopted nieces. Like, yeah, you really are the
best auntie. But I mean, I also totally get
(27:54):
it. Like, I absolutely for a minute,
even though I always knew I wanted kids for sure.
Like there's a climate disaster happening.
There's an ecological just disaster in general with the
plastic crisis and there's wars and our politics are just
heinous. So like, it's a scary place to
(28:16):
bring kids into the world in a scary time.
So yeah, I'd be lying if I didn't also say, like, we,
Andreas and I talked about it. We thought, like, is this the
right thing to do? Yeah, I'm still glad that we
did. But yeah, no, I I totally,
totally understand and respect that position.
(28:37):
Yeah. So those are factors for you.
I didn't, Yeah. I think you have shared before
that you talked about that stuff.
But yeah, it's a it's definitely.
I feel like in my head there's apie chart and that's like a
sliver. Climate is like a sliver.
And then there's like all these other other things on this pie
chart for me. So yeah, it's like the
percentage of outweighs like me wanting to have kids cuz of the
(28:58):
other things. But yeah, I really had to check
in with myself about those reasons and if I really wanted
to or not. And you see other people like
yourself having kids and I really felt like I had to think
about it a lot. It's a it's a big decision for
anyone to have kids or not. And for me, honestly, the just
my childhood growing up was I saw a single mom and the
(29:20):
financial struggles and I didn'thave a good example of a two
parent household. And I think that affected me a
lot. And I went to therapy for it.
Probably should still do a little more therapy on it.
But yeah, I think that not seeing that example and going
through some trauma as a kid really, really has.
That's like the main reason for,I think for me for not having
(29:41):
kids. So I think, yeah, it's just
there's reasons for people to have kids, not have kids.
And for me, I just feel like so free not to have, like, it feels
free not to have kids. And it's like, yeah, it's just
those things have been factors for me, and climate is one of
them as well. But I'm very happy that we're
both happy with our decision. Definitely.
(30:05):
OK, so we've had to navigate ourfriendships changing and my
friends would have kids have I'msorry we both started to grow
older. It definitely has changed the
friendships a lot. Not necessarily good or bad.
It just does change. And for me mentally and
socially, it's just been hard. I just didn't realize it's going
(30:26):
to be so much of A transition over time.
I don't know if we don't talk about as much, I don't feel like
I heard about it maybe because people just in my life had had
kids, like my mom had kids and stuff.
So like she's she wouldn't know that experience.
But yeah, it's just, it's just really, it's kind of hard to
navigate at first because you'relike, you want to be empathetic,
but you also miss your friend and there's just a lot of
(30:47):
emotions. And that's kind of also why I
want to start this podcast, to kind of figure that out of how
to navigate that. It's really hard and there's a
lot of transitions and there wasa lot harder than I thought to
transition into navigating friendships when someone's time
is taken away with growing theirfamilies, which is totally
understandable. And it it took me a while to
(31:09):
figure out how to balance that and navigate that.
But I guess I want to hear your perspective on your side because
you are having the kids and you haven't to navigate maintaining
relationships too. So I guess I want to hear your
perspective on the other side ofthings.
Yeah, I would love to. Well, first I would like to
respond to you saying that we'vedone a good job of maintaining
(31:29):
our relationship. I would like to give you 100% of
that credit, honestly, Honestly,because I think that's one of
the hardest things when you're in the fog of new parenthood,
like you can barely thinking about taking care of your own
needs because you're watching over this tiny being.
So it's like anything outside ofyour own, literally outside of
(31:53):
like you, your partner and your kid, it just kind of fades away.
And that's not at all because it's not important to you.
It's because you are just like in this crazy overwhelmed time
of your life where you literallycannot think of anything else.
And I so deeply appreciate that you kept reaching out, that you
(32:14):
always checked in on me, that you let me be really selfish in
our conversations, that, you know, again, when you're a new
mom, you can't think about anything except yourself and the
baby. And you always created so much
good space for that. And I really appreciate it.
And as I exited that early postpartum fog, that's when you
(32:36):
start to make that space like, yeah, I need to maintain that
relationship. And of course, the first people
that you think about are those people who checked on you in
this really hard time. So it made it, you know, it made
me want to prioritize. Like, I have to see you.
I want you to meet this baby. I want you to understand why
I've been so wrapped up. Yeah.
(33:01):
Yeah. So that's like, I'm like, this
is the part where I'm going to cry.
But like, you've navigated it sobeautifully because I just.
I imagine on your side, it's been really hard because it
feels like you're not important.It feels like you have to do all
the work in the friendship, which I'm sure is exhausting,
but it is so deeply appreciated.And like you said, the fact that
(33:24):
you're a total aunt to my girls,like Auntie Marguerite, we
always talk about you. We just opened your Easter card.
Oh. Yeah, you got it.
OK, good. We.
Did. Yeah, it's totally fine.
Yeah. So that it's like the people who
are the most important in our lives right now, I think are the
(33:44):
people who recognize that like, yeah, the relationship is
different, but like you said, it's not any better or worse.
It's just different. And now there's a couple of
people who tag along to our get togethers, which hopefully is
fun. And it's also nice to, you know,
have that grown up time away from them.
And I also appreciate that aboutyou, that you help encourage me.
(34:05):
Like, why don't we go do something that I can remember
that it's OK. It's OK to leave the kids with
daddy and go have a little bit of round up time.
Yeah, I think that's one thing that I want my mom friends to
know is that I really genuinely want to hang out with your kids
because I do love kids. Just because I didn't choose to
(34:27):
be a mother doesn't mean I hate them.
Like I love them. So I genuinely love hanging out
with my adopted nieces and nieces, of course.
So yeah, I always thought, should I just say that flat out?
Because sometimes I've, I've seen it, moms just need a break.
And then I'm like, well, I actually do want to hang out
(34:49):
with your family. Like I want to see, I know you
see them every day. You probably need a break, but I
also want to hang out with them.So I don't know if, you know,
I've seen moms struggle when they're like trying to take care
of the kids. And we're also hanging out and
we're having conversations. Like I don't, I generally don't
mind it at all. Like that's part of being a mom.
And I like to see those interactions, even though they
might be stressful. Like it's just like, that's part
(35:10):
of you being a mom. It's not always going to be fun
time. So that's all part of the
package. And I just don't, I really love
hanging out with them. So I think that's something I
want, would love all my mom friends to know is that yeah,
that that time is, is really funfor me.
And I, I really appreciate your kind words because I I just, I,
I guess growing up with a singlemom, like I know how hard it is.
(35:31):
And I think that perspective hasreally helped me.
Like, I just know how much work it is.
And I'm the oldest of four. You're the oldest of five South.
Like coming from that oldest daughter perspective, I just
know it's really, really hard and that's also what has scared
me. So I just like the it's like the
two things like I know it's a lot of work and it scared me,
but it can also be really fun too.
(35:51):
Just coming in from that place of empathy has been really
helpful of like, yeah, they are really tied up.
I, I honestly can't imagine. I admire you and, and all my mom
friends because they just see how much work that it takes and
you have to work and you have tomaintain the household.
So it's just a lot of work. So I think that's what has
really helped me is to kind of come from, they have a lot on
their plate. I, you always text me back
(36:13):
really fast too. So I feel like I really
appreciate that. Like you're good at getting back
to me and responding. We do find times.
It's probably not as much as we want because we're both busy,
but I think making that time hasreally made a huge difference as
well. It's, it's hard.
You have to just find those little moments and and time for
each other too. Yeah, yeah, totally.
(36:34):
And I mean the empathy that you bring, absolutely.
And I feel like that is the difference between a friendship
that stays after having kids andone that fizzles away.
You know, it's not the same for everybody.
And I know there are definitely some moms who appreciate breaks
away and people who encourage them to leave the kids at home
and that kind of stuff. But like, for me, that's not as
(36:58):
important. So the friends who were kind of
like, oh, just leave the kids with the babysitter.
Oh, come, let's do this. Let's let's go out wine tasting.
Just leave the kids at home. Like those are the kinds of
friends where it was like, I feel, I don't feel seen anymore.
I feel like this person is not growing with me, which, you
know, that happens and that's OK.
(37:18):
And their perspective is valid too.
Totally. Like it's hard to recognize that
another person has changed and that their priorities have
shifted. But like I said, when you're
kind of wrapped up in that worldand you only have so much
attention, you're gonna focus iton the people like you who are
inclusive of the whole me, the whole package.
(37:39):
Yeah, yeah, you have to be. It's all part of your life and
that's that's who you are. I'm guessing you lost friends
then that didn't adapt with you.I I mean, that's another whole
conversation too, about being inyour 30s and just growing up,
whether you have kids or not, isthat your friendships change.
And I didn't expect to like losefriends too, but that just, it
(38:01):
just naturally happens. There's like cycles of
friendships as well. Has that been your experience?
Has it been? Yeah, yeah, totally.
I mean, I'm glad to say I don't like there weren't any major I
feel like fallings out or anything, but it was kind of
just, you know, the people who still wanted to do the the going
(38:22):
out the kind of more like adult,no kid things.
Those are people who I just be way less frequently.
And if, again, if given the choice, I'm going to prioritize
other friendships. But yeah, yeah, it is.
It's a weird thing to think likewould this have fizzled out
anyway? Or is this true because of the
kids? Like you don't really know but
it is a weird and hard part of your 30s.
(38:45):
Like letting go, people. Yeah, it is weird.
That's a good way to put it. Just it's just weird.
Yeah, it's weird. Yeah, this was weird.
It's my life motto. Weird.
It's. So weird.
And be flexible and. Yeah, be flexible because it's
weird. So I think we're wrapping up
now. Do you feel like there's is
there anything else that you would like to share about
(39:07):
maintaining relationships as a mom that you want to share with
with me or like the friends thatdon't have kids?
I think you've given me a glowing review that I've been
doing a great job so. On the track, five stars, all
the things, yes, no, keep doing what you're doing and please
(39:29):
coach other friends. But yeah, no, I mean, I guess
the only other thing I haven't really mentioned, it's just kind
of the patients, the patients oflike, like you said, there's
also the frustration of moms have to cancel plans last second
all the time, like constantly getting sick.
(39:52):
Usually it's getting sick. I was trying to think of other
examples, but no, it's just because we're sick all the time
or because we didn't sleep at all the night before.
Yeah. Yeah.
So that too, just like trying not to take it personally if we
do have to cancel last second. Because, I mean, if I may be so
(40:14):
bold as to speak on behalf of all parents everywhere, I don't
think we want to cancel. We're just so tired and so sick.
I think I heard like kids get like, I don't know, 5 to 10
colds a year or something. I don't know.
It's something they're just like. 11:50.
(40:35):
OK, 11:50 I'm. Gonna first year of daycare?
Yep, first day of daycare. The pediatrician says expect 10
to 12 colds. That's why and I.
Even think that might be a little bit low.
Yeah, I think it was more like 10 to 18.
Wow, yeah, there's been a lot ofcancelled meetings with my
(40:55):
nieces. They were like sick for a month.
One had a cough that just wouldn't go away.
So you're just, yeah, that's just part of it too.
I agree. Patience is a big part of it.
And I've my nieces are a little bit older than your girls.
So the the stage and motherhood that I see my sister-in-law is
like, she's having more time andshe's the kids a little bit more
(41:16):
independent with their free timeand stuff.
So, you know, I feel like we're going to be navigating other
periods of our lives as your children grow up, as we grow up
too. So, you know, I think it's an
ongoing thing that happens in life.
So yeah, just it's very interesting to me how that will
change over time and think just checking in with each other is,
(41:36):
is like he and that is making sure that you're connecting in
any way that you can because yeah, we're all we're all doing
things too. Yeah, totally.
Yeah, let's schedule our five year podcast check in because I
can't. It's going to be so different in
five years. Like even if if you and I had
talked like 2 years ago, I thinkit would have even my answers
(42:00):
now even would have been different.
It would be like I have a three-year old and a newborn.
I can't do anything ever. No, it's a good thing.
Yeah. Like you think you're going to
be in this, like I have to be watching them every second of
every day. But actually, that's not going
to be true forever. Well, I really enjoyed this
conversation. Feel like I learned new stuff.
(42:22):
And yeah, thank you for your just really kind words.
And I'm so glad that we're, we've maintained this
relationship for so many years too.
Like, yeah, 20 years is amazing and we're just going to keep
continuing that. So yeah, thanks again.
Beautiful thank you, from our wild concert days to picnics
(42:42):
with Easter bunnies. Yeah, it really has ranged.
So yeah, I'm, I want to just askone question, kind of concluding
question before as we wrap up. So one question, the question
that I have is the phrase is kind of like, what do these kids
(43:03):
need to know? So what do you think the younger
generation need to know? And it can really range in
whatever topic, life advice, popculture, like really anything.
Well, I'm pretty bad at pop culture so I think I'll go with
life advice. Yeah.
(43:26):
I would say, I mean, giving yourself grace in everything
that you do. And coming from someone who used
to have many timelines, as we have discussed, just trying to
be flexible because you never know what life is going to throw
at you if you're trying to rigidly to stick to 1 plan.
(43:48):
And this is true for parenting, this is true for careers.
This I think is true for everything.
If you're trying to stick to something too hard, you might be
missing out on something else wonderful.
So just kind of as best as you can, trying to keep an open mind
and giving yourself grace when things don't work out the way
that you think that they will because your life's going to be
(44:13):
great. Yeah.
I think that's great, Yeah. That applies to anything that
you do in life, too, like you said.
That's great, yeah. OK.
Well, thank you so much. I really enjoyed this
conversation. Thanks for talking with me
today. I really appreciate it.
This has been great. Thank you so much.
OK, bye. Thanks so much for listening.
(44:37):
I really enjoyed talking with Jenna and I have a feeling I'll
be bringing her back on. I feel lucky that we were able
to reflect and check in on our friendship after all these
years. I was truly taken aback when she
said she gave me 100% of the credit for maintaining the
relationship when her daughters were newborns.
I don't think I can take full credit.
I am proud of the work we have both done to maintain the
(44:59):
relationship. 20 years is a longtime and I was happy to hear
that I'm doing a great job as anadopted aunt to her girls.
I am really looking forward to making more memories with all of
them. Next week I'll be bringing you
into my conversation with another one of my soul mates,
Frankie. I thank the universe he was in
my internship group. I still remember that first day
(45:20):
thinking how I hoped we would befriends.
And then about Midsummer, he sent me a link to Shakira's
newest video. She, Wolf and I knew that our
friendship had been sealed, thatwe were going to be friends.
Flash forward to now and we've maintained that relationship and
we share a lot of the same interests.
The list is really long. He always brings in a different
(45:40):
perspective to my life and I canlisten to him speak for hours.
Frankie will share how his closerelationship with his family
affected his timelines, how he'snavigating friendships in his
30s, and what he hopes for the younger generation.
If you feel like anything resonated with you or any topic
that you want to talk about, please let me know.
(46:01):
If there's perspectives that you've been wanting to hear on
this podcast, you can also reachout.
You can reach out via e-mail at hello@thisclockpod.com or you
can DM me on Instagram at this clock pod.
For behind the scenes content into making this podcast and for
my reflections, you can subscribe to my sub stack at
(46:21):
this clock pod.substack.com. And of course, you can find all
this info in the show notes. To help support this podcast,
please rate, review, and follow on whatever platform you listen.
I'll see you next Thursday.
Hi, you're listening to Who SetsThis Clock?
I'm the podcast creator and hostMarguerite.
On this podcast, I talk with my guests about the life paths we
take or don't take when it comesto having kids, along with other
types of set of clocks that tickaround us.
I have candid personal conversations with people from a
wide range of perspectives including parents, guardians,
(00:28):
those who are child free, child less, undecided, hoping to have
kids one day, and more. I hope to explore our how our
relationship shift when friends and family start to have kids.
New episodes come out every Thursday.
Thanks for joining me today. Last week I launched the pod.
I'm hearing great feedback that already makes this podcast feel
(00:48):
worthwhile already. My hope in launching this
podcast was for others to hear relatable stories, to think
about different perspectives, tolaugh along, or to feel less
alone. Please reach out to me anytime
if you want to talk about any ofthese topics or anything you
heard on this podcast. I would love to hear from you.
All right, let's get into today's episode.
(01:13):
I'm here with my friend Jenna. I've known her since college and
I just did the math today and realize we've known each other
for about 20 years, which is quite incredible.
And I'm excited to talk to her today about motherhood, her
timelines in life. Also, really navigating our
friendship over the years, especially as she's ready to
(01:34):
have children. And then I made a decision,
decision not to have children. So yeah, I want to really get
into how we've grown together over different stages in life.
So I'm really excited to have Jenna join me today.
So hi, Jenna, how are you? Hi, thanks for having me.
I'm good excited. Yeah, I'm excited to jump in.
Yeah, I think let's start with tell me a little bit about
(01:56):
yourself, our listeners, like what age you are, who you live
with. I know you have children, so
also how many children you have.Sure.
Yeah. So I'm 38.
I live with my husband and my two kids.
My daughter Maddie is five and Layla will be 3 soon.
Yeah, she's she has a birthday coming up.
Yeah. Marine three and five.
(02:17):
Oh my gosh. OK, Yeah.
So you have little children and I wanted to know when you
started to think about starting a family, when did that first
come up for you? I.
Always knew that I wanted to have a family.
I come from a very big Irish Italian Catholic family, so I'm
the oldest of five kids. I have dozens of cousins.
(02:40):
So it just kind of was a no brainer for me.
It was interesting though. I my parents, they met in
college, they got married literally the summer after
college. They had me a year later.
So kind of my framework was like, you're supposed to meet
your husband in college, You're supposed to have kids right
after. Thankfully, they never pressured
(03:01):
me that way, but I still, you know, you get socialized to
certain ideas. So that's kind of how I thought
my life was going to go. I always thought that 28 was the
perfect age to have a kid. I don't know why I picked that,
but I thought that was when how it was going to happen.
And then I started hitting different ages and realizing,
(03:21):
whoa, I'm not ready at all. So I started to push timelines
back a little bit, and I'm glad that I did.
Yeah, I distinctly remember we would talk about like having
kids and you have like a very clear time, like at 28, I'm on
my first one and then like at maybe like 30, I'll have my
second one. And I was like, secretly I was
(03:42):
like, wow, she has her life figured out.
She knows her timelines. She knows exactly when.
And I was like, yeah, I'll have kids someday.
Like, sure, yeah, that's something that sticks out.
I was like you, you knew like, or you, you had this plan in
your, in your head at 25. For me, I was like, I, I am
think I can start having kids. It's an appropriate age in my
(04:03):
head, but I, I don't want like, I'm not ready at all to have
kids or even start to think about it.
And also we're the oldest kids of our family too.
So I think that's something relatable to like seeing big
families and then also caring for little ones and being part
of that kind of larger family aswell.
Yeah. Definitely.
(04:24):
OK, so you were you like turned around 28 and so So what changed
around that and what changed as you started to get into your
later 20s and you're you're thinking about your timeline.
And he said, wait, I'm not, I'm not ready.
Yeah, I I met my husband or my now husband in college, so kind
of checked that box in my mind and we were having such a good
(04:48):
time just having it be the two of us.
And I realized we don't need to add anyone into the mix yet.
Let's enjoy ourselves. It also, we graduated in 2008,
which, you know, was a rough time to graduate.
So that kind of put a damper. Yeah, like put a damper on a lot
of plans that we thought. I thought after graduating from
(05:10):
college, you know, you were promised you'll get to go,
you'll get a great job right away.
And that sure didn't happen because the whole economy was
crashed. So it just also did not feel
like the right time to add anyone else into the mix.
It didn't feel like the right time to have a wedding.
So we just kind of were enjoyingbeing young and in love and just
the two of us and not putting any pressure on anything.
(05:32):
Yeah, that makes sense. That was a really rough time.
He just thought whatever job that you could.
So that makes sense that you're like, this is I'm not going to
go to plan because of how the current state of things.
And I do love too that you're, you know, you had a partner, so
you're thinking about how that how that would be together.
As you were. As you were aging too.
(05:53):
Yeah, OK, Yeah, and we sure did enjoy your time.
Love that for both of you. Wait, So what age were you when
you first had? Well, five years from now.
So like 33 was when you had yourfirst kid?
Yes. I was 32 with Maddie and 35 with
(06:14):
Layla. Yeah.
So essentially, yeah. It was like when we finally did
feel ready to get married, I was26.
It was right after grad school, so I felt like we were more
established. We were kind of ready to get
married. Also that year, I think we also
went to eight other weddings. So it was like all of my, not
(06:35):
all, but a lot of friends decided that year like, OK,
we're ready to grow up. So it's like we all kind of did
it at the same time. And some of them started having
kids, some of them didn't. And we, again, still didn't
really feel ready. I had, I was just starting my
career. I got my job at the nonprofit
where I still work. I was getting the chance to
(06:57):
travel for work. So again, it was kind of like, I
don't want to give this up. I'm not ready to add kids into
this mix and it really does impact when a lot of people
around you are not having them. Like I didn't want to be the
first one. I didn't want to be left out.
Really like fun things that werehappening.
So that was definitely another. Factor.
(07:19):
I didn't know that. That's so interesting.
Yeah. You don't you want to be the
first one getting married or or having kids.
To have kids. To have kids, OK, because all
your friends are getting married, but you're like, OK,
then it's like the next step would be having kids.
OK. OK.
Yeah. Oh, well, I didn't.
Yeah, I did not know that. Yeah.
But yeah, that's that's really interesting that you're like
waiting for other people to I guess to share that part of of
(07:42):
their life with your life too. Yeah, totally like to share it,
but also like totally honest FOMO.
I'm like, all of us were living our like young travel lives.
I didn't want to be the first one who was stuck at home with
the baby when my friends were all still getting together and
going out and that kind of stuff.
So it definitely made it easier,like when some of my friends
(08:05):
started having kids and I started to see, OK, this is what
it would look like now I could be a part of this community and
I won't feel like I'm missing out on other things.
OK, so now you're going that stage of your life, you got
married, had kids, and then now we're in our late 30s, which is
like crazy to say. Yeah.
(08:27):
How do you feel about where you are now?
And I guess also part of that question is like what you kind
of imagine your life to be at around this age, kind of back of
like thinking about your late 30s if you did.
And then yeah, how do you imagine it as well?
Yeah, so weird because I, you know, did think at some point
(08:49):
about what would it be like to be 40, But back then I'm like,
I'll be an old person, I won't care.
And now like 40 is not even close.
To old. No, it's not old at all.
Not even close. But yeah.
So I mean, I guess I did imaginemyself as like two kids in a
house in a white picket fence and doing PTA and all those
(09:11):
things. So in that way, my life is sort
of how I imagined. I definitely didn't imagine
though, because I thought I would have kids a little bit
younger, like when I was younger.
I mean, I didn't imagine having essentially toddlers close to my
40s. That comes with a whole slew of
(09:31):
issues. It's nice in some ways.
I mean, where I live, most parents tend to be a little bit
older, so we certainly don't feel like I'm an outlier in that
respect. But we all kind of joke
together. We're like, is this
perimenopause? Is this because we're
breastfeeding? Is are my joints falling apart
(09:51):
because I'm almost 40 or becauseof breastfeeding hormones?
So nature doesn't necessarily want you having young kids.
This old. I literally threw out my back
trying to stop Layla from falling so that was really fun
and embarrassing. Like 3 days like what's that?
When did that happen? Is that recent?
(10:13):
Yeah, over the summer, we were on vacation, of course.
So yeah, she was running down the street.
She started to fall. I reached down too fast to grab
her, and my back was just like, and like, I know I was like
Andres. I can't move the rest.
Is that bad? Oh yeah.
Oh, geez. It was like, I mean, like your
(10:35):
arms kind of get stuck and you have to waddle walk.
So for the whole next yeah, three days, I'm just like waddle
walking as we're trying to do our sightseeing.
It is what it is. But yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely
feeling my age sometimes. But it's also, it's good and it
(10:56):
my life for the most part. Yeah.
I feel like we're finally in a good groove, which I'm going.
Good. Yeah.
I also feel like I've been thinking a lot about, like, I've
even read some articles about how your mind might feel younger
than your body and how that happens when you get older too.
Because mentally I don't feel what I thought it would be at
(11:19):
38. I don't know, Maybe I feel like
I would be more adult. I don't even know what that
really means, but I feel like young still.
Like, I don't know. I feel like, feel like a lot to
learn. Yeah, how I mentioned I thought
they really, really wise and like, I don't know, just it's
hard to like really know exactlywhat I would, what an adult is.
But yeah, I don't really feel that.
(11:40):
Yeah. And I'm like, right now, I would
have felt that way. Totally.
Yeah, No, same. I totally resonate with that.
Or like when someone calls you ma'am and you look over your
shoulder, like who are you talking to?
I know it's not me. I'm practically a teenager.
I am nowhere near being a ma'am.So like, how dare you?
(12:02):
OK. I think just getting into other
milestones, you know, I think you've already touched on this
about, you know, having the white pick a fence and the two
kids and getting married. But you know, is there any
pressure that you felt for any other milestones in your life?
Yeah, I mean, I felt pressure all along, thankfully, again,
(12:24):
not really from my parents. You know, there are a lot of
people whose parents really pressure them to have kids.
My parents, maybe because they did have us pretty young, they
were kind of the opposite. They always encourage us, like,
finish your education, do everything that you want to do
before you bring kids into the picture.
(12:45):
But you know, there's still, like I said, like internalized
pressure, also biological pressure.
They scare you so much. Like it's going to be impossible
to get pregnant after you're 30.By the time you're 35, you're at
high risk of all sorts of things.
So it's also like even when I wasn't emotionally feeling
ready, I was like, OK, I don't want not to be able to have
(13:08):
kids. So got to find that sweet spot
there. I mean, the house thing, I'm
sure this will resonate with every millennial.
This is like we're the worst generation ever trying to get
our own housing. It's crazy.
Like we just came home owners literally a couple months ago
and I sure thought that was going to happen a lot sooner.
(13:28):
But again, like tough our generation and especially maybe
you should do an episode on this.
I read an article about the micro generation.
But literally those of us who graduated in 2008 and sort of in
1009, who missed out on all sorts of earning potential
because we graduated right when everything was bad.
(13:51):
And by the time it bounced back,they didn't want us.
They wanted the kids who were just coming out of college.
They didn't like that we have been waitressing for the past
two years even though we didn't.Wow.
Yeah, I've not heard about that,that.
I didn't think about that. Oh, good.
So we just had layers of, of of things.
Yeah, no. Sorry, kind of went off topic.
(14:12):
But no, it's OK. So, so interesting.
Yeah, but thanks for sharing, like the biological and mental
parts of those things because, yeah, women have to think about
their bodies and their aging bodies and what the doctors are
telling them, but also where youare at your life.
So there's a lot of things goingon and things you have to figure
(14:33):
out because you're up against the timeline, too.
So yeah, those are all factors for sure.
OK. So jumping into motherhood, it's
been a real joy to see you become a mother and raise your
two girls. Like I just absolutely love,
like seeing all the mothers in my life, like really come into
(14:56):
motherhood and just, yeah, you like you're a different person.
Like I've known you in 2020 years now.
But yeah, just seeing you over the years and being with the
girls have been, yeah. It's just really fun, fun to
watch. Yeah.
So I think I'll start with what's your favorite thing about
motherhood? So many things.
So many things. Yeah.
(15:16):
I mean, it's super cheesy, but honestly, like, the love that
you feel for them is just so unfathomable.
Like, people tell you that that's going to happen.
And it's like, yeah, I get it. Like, I love my family members,
but it's something that's totally different.
It's like I just want to be staring at them every second of
(15:37):
every day. And even when they're making me
furious, my reaction is like, I just want to wrap them up into a
huge hug. Like, Mother Nature is
definitely doing her job making sure that I don't get too mad at
these little munchkins. Yeah.
And I actually had a really funny experience.
Like early in my postpartum, I had this kind of revelation
(16:01):
about how much my mom loves me and I like called her crying,
like apologizing. Like mom, I never knew how much
you love me. Like I know you love me, but I
just, I never understood how deep it was and now I get it.
So I'm sorry for the things thatI did to you and all of that.
(16:22):
So it's like, it's kind of cool,but it really just like, yeah,
it kind of like puts the rest ofyour life into perspective too.
And it's really changed my relationship with my mom.
Like, we've always had a really close, amazing relationship.
I'm lucky my mom's the best. But afterwards, it's like now
that I'm a mom, we understand each other on a totally
(16:45):
different level. It's like much deeper.
So I just think that's really cool too.
It's like I have this incrediblerelationship with my kids and
it's like added this whole otherdimension to this other really
important relationship in my life.
Yeah, perspective shift too. That's amazing.
That's so nice. I never heard any.
Well, I've I've heard people saylike, yeah, they change the
(17:07):
relationship with their mom, butyeah, that's a new perspective
for me. It's like it opens your eyes to
what your mom went through and the love that she had.
When did that happen? Like, was that recently or when
you first became a mother? No, yeah, that was like early,
like I want to say first month or two probably.
(17:28):
Yeah. I was still like flooded with
hormones. I mean, I still, I still will
have that, like, overwhelming feeling for my mom that I'm
like, I have to call her and tell her I love her.
She's so great. And just watching her be a
grandma is like the greatest joy.
Like, you don't even realize that part, too.
Like watching your parents get to, like, be cute with little
(17:48):
kids all over again. Yeah.
Yeah. That's amazing.
That's great. Thank you for sharing that.
And then another question about motherhood.
Was there anything that caught you off guard?
Many things. Yeah.
So many things. Yeah.
It's so funny because I spent most of my teen years
(18:10):
babysitting and nannying, so I thought, you know, I know what
to do with kids, but it's very different when you have your
own. And I think the main thing that
really caught me off guard was Iwas not expecting to be the kind
of helicopter parent that I am. I thought I was gonna be super
chill, Like, yeah, I'm gonna be.The cold break I just.
(18:31):
Worry about it? Exactly.
Yeah, I was like, yeah, I'm not going to stress about stuff.
It's fine. I know that every kid is their
own person and they hit their milestones and then you're in it
yourself and you're some of it'sthe hormones again, but some of
it is just, you know, it's different when it's your own
kids and every little thing makes you feel worried.
It sure didn't help that the pandemic started six months into
(18:55):
my motherhood journey, so all the little health worries that
you think about all of a sudden became super amplified.
Not sure that my mental health will ever recover fully from the
fear that I felt. And, you know, being locked in
and then not having the support,being kind of locked in that
bubble where it was just me and Andres and her and my parents
(19:17):
would come over every once in a while outside.
They couldn't hold Madeline. Yeah, that part was definitely
really hard. I also thought I would be a lot
more career focused, like I was planning on getting right back
in there. And I did go back to work right
away, but it was very begrudgingly.
I thought that I was going to belike, super ready to go back.
(19:39):
And instead it was like, no, please, I want to stay home with
my baby. And I was totally planning on
getting back into my work traveland thought like, yeah, I could
leave her for a week. And then once I saw her little
face, I'm like, I'm never leaving this baby.
Never ever again. She must be glued to my body.
Yeah. Yeah, cuz you when you travel
(20:01):
for work, it can be like one to two weeks at a time, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, a long time. Right, Yep.
And I just thought that I was going to want to do it and
absolutely did not, did not wantto leave those kiddos.
It's different now and it's a little sad with the second kid,
you're, you know, you're kind ofmore used to things.
So I left her a lot earlier thanI left my first.
(20:24):
But it's good. It's good you find yourself like
the parts of you that you want to come back.
They do come back. And that's like a really
important thing with motherhood.It's like you feel in the
beginning like you've totally lost yourself.
And some ways it's good, like, you know, because all your
attention is focused on this baby.
And in other ways it's really bad.
You're like, who am I? I worked so hard for my career
(20:47):
and now if given the opportunity, I would throw it
all away just to to be at home. But yeah, it's like slowly those
parts do come back if you want them to, which has been nice.
Yeah, I heard that from mothers too, other mothers as well, like
trying to find your interests and who you are again, cuz your
time and attention is so focusedon other little people.
(21:08):
So yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, I'm just hearing you talk
about that too. It's it just makes me realize
too that you don't really know what's going to happen until it
happens. So you can have a plan and
you're like, wait, this is that's not how I was going to.
I thought it was going to go andthen you just pivot and change.
Exactly. That is such a big deal.
(21:30):
I actually now volunteer for a local mom's group teaching baby
classes. And that's essentially our main
take away is like, you can prepare all you want, but your
baby's going to be who they are.You have no idea how you're
going to react to different things, so you got to be
flexible. Flexible.
Yeah, that makes sense. OK, some people have said that
(21:52):
your legacy is your children, but I feel like that's an insult
to people that don't have kids. So I would love to know what
you're like, what you want your legacy to be like, What do you
want to be remembered for? Because it's your your own
human. Yeah, that's beautiful.
And if I may share a quick story, it's funny that you asked
(22:12):
this question because I literally just about two weeks
ago had this discussion with another childless friend where
she was. We were talking about why she
didn't end up having kids. And same thing she said.
People kept telling her, but what's your legacy going to be?
And she's an incredible human who started her own nonprofit.
She's helped so many people. And so, yeah, it was like, I'm
(22:35):
insulted on her behalf that someone would say, what's your
legacy like? What more could we possibly ask
of her? And same for you, like your
legacy is the all of the people who you have welcomed into your
circle and made a part of your chosen family, which is so, so
(22:55):
beautiful. I hope that I can have some of
an impact like that as well. I hope, I hope that I do raise
two really great children who are successful and kind and who
add something of value to this world.
(23:16):
And I hope I leave behind some value for the lives that I've
been a part of. I feel, I mean, I'm passionate
about my career as well. I think that that's having an
impact on people. So as long as I leave the world
a tiny bit better than it was when I came into it, I'll feel
like I left behind a good legacy.
(23:38):
That's amazing. Yeah.
You're, you do amazing work too.Your job is pretty incredible.
And I feel like you help people all the time.
And yeah, you're just being partof my life has made an impact.
So I think, yeah, you're gonna leave a beautiful legacy.
And yeah, like how you pointed out that your kids are part of
it. Your kids are definitely still
part of your legacy. It's just not all of you.
Exactly. Yeah, maybe we could do a
(24:00):
second, a second episode about motherhood too, like just
getting into that cuz I feel like we could do a whole like a
whole episode about that. Yeah.
I want to get into because we have that relationship dynamic
of 1 friend has a kid and one doesn't.
And I think about that a lot on top of not having kids and how
(24:22):
to navigate that in a society where a lot of people do have
kids around this time. I think I want to go into kind
of in our early 20s when we met,you know, at that time, I, I
was, I thought I was going to have kids.
I deep down I was like unsure. But I also felt societal
pressure of like, OK, that's thenext thing you do.
You go to college and you have kids.
(24:42):
So yeah, I and I will talk aboutthat later about how it came to
that decision of not having kids.
But we, we both definitely talked about having kids.
And again, you're the one that had me think about the timeline
like 2028 and like ages and stuff.
So you were pretty hardcore about it.
(25:03):
So that really got me in my head, but I also felt like, OK,
I have time, like 20 is far away, like I'm 2122.
And so then I went the total really untraditional route and I
got married and eloped and I didn't have a big wedding and
then I didn't have kids. So I do feel a little guilt of
like not being that friend that went the traditional way.
(25:24):
And then I kind of like said, I was so like, I, I know you're OK
with it and I know you would never put like that guilt on me,
but I was like, wow, that I totally changed everything.
And like, I could imagine us like me having kids.
And then I do feel out kind of like what would happen if I can
have my kids and like play with my friends kids.
Like that moment. I I'm grieving that moment too,
(25:46):
because that's something I have thought about as well.
But I'm still OK with my decision.
I'm still OK with my decision not to have kids because it's
really been fun to be an aunt and to be and I would say like a
mother to my friends kids as well because I feel like there's
different ways to be a mother and also be part of motherhood.
And so yeah, it's, I'm really glad to be part of your girls
(26:08):
lives and my friends with kids as well.
You know, we won't, we went in two different directions.
And so yeah, I think I want to get into like your feelings
about that 'cause I don't think,I don't know if I ever like told
you like, yeah, I'm not going tohave kids.
Like I don't kind of remember a specific conversation at some
point I must have told you. So I'm going to get into your
(26:29):
thoughts and feelings about about that part about me not
wanting kids and then you're thinking about having kids in
your life. Yeah, definitely.
And thanks for sharing that. I didn't realize, I had never
really thought I guess about like, carrying guilt around the
decision too. Yeah.
So yeah, that's really eye opening.
Thanks for sharing that. I definitely do remember when
(26:50):
you told me you weren't having kids.
I don't remember where we were or what I but I remember the
feeling. I remember being like, oh, OK.
Like that's definitely a pivot from what I had thought.
I know a lot of people are choosing not to have kids these
days. So like, you know, it's not
totally shocking, but at the same time, of course, I was a
(27:12):
little surprised just because wehad talked about it.
And I don't want to add to your guilt at all that you and Zach
are just such wonderful people that it would be really amazing
to have little copies of you in the world.
But like you said, like you're having such a deep impact on
other people's lives in other ways and having other ways of
leaving really beautiful things in the world.
(27:33):
So yeah, I really applaud you 2 for making that decision, for
doing what's right for you and for really stepping into that
role, being so supportive with your nieces and all of your
adopted nieces. Like, yeah, you really are the
best auntie. But I mean, I also totally get
(27:54):
it. Like, I absolutely for a minute,
even though I always knew I wanted kids for sure.
Like there's a climate disaster happening.
There's an ecological just disaster in general with the
plastic crisis and there's wars and our politics are just
heinous. So like, it's a scary place to
(28:16):
bring kids into the world in a scary time.
So yeah, I'd be lying if I didn't also say, like, we,
Andreas and I talked about it. We thought, like, is this the
right thing to do? Yeah, I'm still glad that we
did. But yeah, no, I I totally,
totally understand and respect that position.
(28:37):
Yeah. So those are factors for you.
I didn't, Yeah. I think you have shared before
that you talked about that stuff.
But yeah, it's a it's definitely.
I feel like in my head there's apie chart and that's like a
sliver. Climate is like a sliver.
And then there's like all these other other things on this pie
chart for me. So yeah, it's like the
percentage of outweighs like me wanting to have kids cuz of the
(28:58):
other things. But yeah, I really had to check
in with myself about those reasons and if I really wanted
to or not. And you see other people like
yourself having kids and I really felt like I had to think
about it a lot. It's a it's a big decision for
anyone to have kids or not. And for me, honestly, the just
my childhood growing up was I saw a single mom and the
(29:20):
financial struggles and I didn'thave a good example of a two
parent household. And I think that affected me a
lot. And I went to therapy for it.
Probably should still do a little more therapy on it.
But yeah, I think that not seeing that example and going
through some trauma as a kid really, really has.
That's like the main reason for,I think for me for not having
(29:41):
kids. So I think, yeah, it's just
there's reasons for people to have kids, not have kids.
And for me, I just feel like so free not to have, like, it feels
free not to have kids. And it's like, yeah, it's just
those things have been factors for me, and climate is one of
them as well. But I'm very happy that we're
both happy with our decision. Definitely.
(30:05):
OK, so we've had to navigate ourfriendships changing and my
friends would have kids have I'msorry we both started to grow
older. It definitely has changed the
friendships a lot. Not necessarily good or bad.
It just does change. And for me mentally and
socially, it's just been hard. I just didn't realize it's going
(30:26):
to be so much of A transition over time.
I don't know if we don't talk about as much, I don't feel like
I heard about it maybe because people just in my life had had
kids, like my mom had kids and stuff.
So like she's she wouldn't know that experience.
But yeah, it's just, it's just really, it's kind of hard to
navigate at first because you'relike, you want to be empathetic,
but you also miss your friend and there's just a lot of
(30:47):
emotions. And that's kind of also why I
want to start this podcast, to kind of figure that out of how
to navigate that. It's really hard and there's a
lot of transitions and there wasa lot harder than I thought to
transition into navigating friendships when someone's time
is taken away with growing theirfamilies, which is totally
understandable. And it it took me a while to
(31:09):
figure out how to balance that and navigate that.
But I guess I want to hear your perspective on your side because
you are having the kids and you haven't to navigate maintaining
relationships too. So I guess I want to hear your
perspective on the other side ofthings.
Yeah, I would love to. Well, first I would like to
respond to you saying that we'vedone a good job of maintaining
(31:29):
our relationship. I would like to give you 100% of
that credit, honestly, Honestly,because I think that's one of
the hardest things when you're in the fog of new parenthood,
like you can barely thinking about taking care of your own
needs because you're watching over this tiny being.
So it's like anything outside ofyour own, literally outside of
(31:53):
like you, your partner and your kid, it just kind of fades away.
And that's not at all because it's not important to you.
It's because you are just like in this crazy overwhelmed time
of your life where you literallycannot think of anything else.
And I so deeply appreciate that you kept reaching out, that you
(32:14):
always checked in on me, that you let me be really selfish in
our conversations, that, you know, again, when you're a new
mom, you can't think about anything except yourself and the
baby. And you always created so much
good space for that. And I really appreciate it.
And as I exited that early postpartum fog, that's when you
(32:36):
start to make that space like, yeah, I need to maintain that
relationship. And of course, the first people
that you think about are those people who checked on you in
this really hard time. So it made it, you know, it made
me want to prioritize. Like, I have to see you.
I want you to meet this baby. I want you to understand why
I've been so wrapped up. Yeah.
(33:01):
Yeah. So that's like, I'm like, this
is the part where I'm going to cry.
But like, you've navigated it sobeautifully because I just.
I imagine on your side, it's been really hard because it
feels like you're not important.It feels like you have to do all
the work in the friendship, which I'm sure is exhausting,
but it is so deeply appreciated.And like you said, the fact that
(33:24):
you're a total aunt to my girls,like Auntie Marguerite, we
always talk about you. We just opened your Easter card.
Oh. Yeah, you got it.
OK, good. We.
Did. Yeah, it's totally fine.
Yeah. So that it's like the people who
are the most important in our lives right now, I think are the
(33:44):
people who recognize that like, yeah, the relationship is
different, but like you said, it's not any better or worse.
It's just different. And now there's a couple of
people who tag along to our get togethers, which hopefully is
fun. And it's also nice to, you know,
have that grown up time away from them.
And I also appreciate that aboutyou, that you help encourage me.
(34:05):
Like, why don't we go do something that I can remember
that it's OK. It's OK to leave the kids with
daddy and go have a little bit of round up time.
Yeah, I think that's one thing that I want my mom friends to
know is that I really genuinely want to hang out with your kids
because I do love kids. Just because I didn't choose to
(34:27):
be a mother doesn't mean I hate them.
Like I love them. So I genuinely love hanging out
with my adopted nieces and nieces, of course.
So yeah, I always thought, should I just say that flat out?
Because sometimes I've, I've seen it, moms just need a break.
And then I'm like, well, I actually do want to hang out
(34:49):
with your family. Like I want to see, I know you
see them every day. You probably need a break, but I
also want to hang out with them.So I don't know if, you know,
I've seen moms struggle when they're like trying to take care
of the kids. And we're also hanging out and
we're having conversations. Like I don't, I generally don't
mind it at all. Like that's part of being a mom.
And I like to see those interactions, even though they
might be stressful. Like it's just like, that's part
(35:10):
of you being a mom. It's not always going to be fun
time. So that's all part of the
package. And I just don't, I really love
hanging out with them. So I think that's something I
want, would love all my mom friends to know is that yeah,
that that time is, is really funfor me.
And I, I really appreciate your kind words because I I just, I,
I guess growing up with a singlemom, like I know how hard it is.
(35:31):
And I think that perspective hasreally helped me.
Like, I just know how much work it is.
And I'm the oldest of four. You're the oldest of five South.
Like coming from that oldest daughter perspective, I just
know it's really, really hard and that's also what has scared
me. So I just like the it's like the
two things like I know it's a lot of work and it scared me,
but it can also be really fun too.
(35:51):
Just coming in from that place of empathy has been really
helpful of like, yeah, they are really tied up.
I, I honestly can't imagine. I admire you and, and all my mom
friends because they just see how much work that it takes and
you have to work and you have tomaintain the household.
So it's just a lot of work. So I think that's what has
really helped me is to kind of come from, they have a lot on
their plate. I, you always text me back
(36:13):
really fast too. So I feel like I really
appreciate that. Like you're good at getting back
to me and responding. We do find times.
It's probably not as much as we want because we're both busy,
but I think making that time hasreally made a huge difference as
well. It's, it's hard.
You have to just find those little moments and and time for
each other too. Yeah, yeah, totally.
(36:34):
And I mean the empathy that you bring, absolutely.
And I feel like that is the difference between a friendship
that stays after having kids andone that fizzles away.
You know, it's not the same for everybody.
And I know there are definitely some moms who appreciate breaks
away and people who encourage them to leave the kids at home
and that kind of stuff. But like, for me, that's not as
(36:58):
important. So the friends who were kind of
like, oh, just leave the kids with the babysitter.
Oh, come, let's do this. Let's let's go out wine tasting.
Just leave the kids at home. Like those are the kinds of
friends where it was like, I feel, I don't feel seen anymore.
I feel like this person is not growing with me, which, you
know, that happens and that's OK.
(37:18):
And their perspective is valid too.
Totally. Like it's hard to recognize that
another person has changed and that their priorities have
shifted. But like I said, when you're
kind of wrapped up in that worldand you only have so much
attention, you're gonna focus iton the people like you who are
inclusive of the whole me, the whole package.
(37:39):
Yeah, yeah, you have to be. It's all part of your life and
that's that's who you are. I'm guessing you lost friends
then that didn't adapt with you.I I mean, that's another whole
conversation too, about being inyour 30s and just growing up,
whether you have kids or not, isthat your friendships change.
And I didn't expect to like losefriends too, but that just, it
(38:01):
just naturally happens. There's like cycles of
friendships as well. Has that been your experience?
Has it been? Yeah, yeah, totally.
I mean, I'm glad to say I don't like there weren't any major I
feel like fallings out or anything, but it was kind of
just, you know, the people who still wanted to do the the going
(38:22):
out the kind of more like adult,no kid things.
Those are people who I just be way less frequently.
And if, again, if given the choice, I'm going to prioritize
other friendships. But yeah, yeah, it is.
It's a weird thing to think likewould this have fizzled out
anyway? Or is this true because of the
kids? Like you don't really know but
it is a weird and hard part of your 30s.
(38:45):
Like letting go, people. Yeah, it is weird.
That's a good way to put it. Just it's just weird.
Yeah, it's weird. Yeah, this was weird.
It's my life motto. Weird.
It's. So weird.
And be flexible and. Yeah, be flexible because it's
weird. So I think we're wrapping up
now. Do you feel like there's is
there anything else that you would like to share about
(39:07):
maintaining relationships as a mom that you want to share with
with me or like the friends thatdon't have kids?
I think you've given me a glowing review that I've been
doing a great job so. On the track, five stars, all
the things, yes, no, keep doing what you're doing and please
(39:29):
coach other friends. But yeah, no, I mean, I guess
the only other thing I haven't really mentioned, it's just kind
of the patients, the patients oflike, like you said, there's
also the frustration of moms have to cancel plans last second
all the time, like constantly getting sick.
(39:52):
Usually it's getting sick. I was trying to think of other
examples, but no, it's just because we're sick all the time
or because we didn't sleep at all the night before.
Yeah. Yeah.
So that too, just like trying not to take it personally if we
do have to cancel last second. Because, I mean, if I may be so
(40:14):
bold as to speak on behalf of all parents everywhere, I don't
think we want to cancel. We're just so tired and so sick.
I think I heard like kids get like, I don't know, 5 to 10
colds a year or something. I don't know.
It's something they're just like. 11:50.
(40:35):
OK, 11:50 I'm. Gonna first year of daycare?
Yep, first day of daycare. The pediatrician says expect 10
to 12 colds. That's why and I.
Even think that might be a little bit low.
Yeah, I think it was more like 10 to 18.
Wow, yeah, there's been a lot ofcancelled meetings with my
(40:55):
nieces. They were like sick for a month.
One had a cough that just wouldn't go away.
So you're just, yeah, that's just part of it too.
I agree. Patience is a big part of it.
And I've my nieces are a little bit older than your girls.
So the the stage and motherhood that I see my sister-in-law is
like, she's having more time andshe's the kids a little bit more
(41:16):
independent with their free timeand stuff.
So, you know, I feel like we're going to be navigating other
periods of our lives as your children grow up, as we grow up
too. So, you know, I think it's an
ongoing thing that happens in life.
So yeah, just it's very interesting to me how that will
change over time and think just checking in with each other is,
(41:36):
is like he and that is making sure that you're connecting in
any way that you can because yeah, we're all we're all doing
things too. Yeah, totally.
Yeah, let's schedule our five year podcast check in because I
can't. It's going to be so different in
five years. Like even if if you and I had
talked like 2 years ago, I thinkit would have even my answers
(42:00):
now even would have been different.
It would be like I have a three-year old and a newborn.
I can't do anything ever. No, it's a good thing.
Yeah. Like you think you're going to
be in this, like I have to be watching them every second of
every day. But actually, that's not going
to be true forever. Well, I really enjoyed this
conversation. Feel like I learned new stuff.
(42:22):
And yeah, thank you for your just really kind words.
And I'm so glad that we're, we've maintained this
relationship for so many years too.
Like, yeah, 20 years is amazing and we're just going to keep
continuing that. So yeah, thanks again.
Beautiful thank you, from our wild concert days to picnics
(42:42):
with Easter bunnies. Yeah, it really has ranged.
So yeah, I'm, I want to just askone question, kind of concluding
question before as we wrap up. So one question, the question
that I have is the phrase is kind of like, what do these kids
(43:03):
need to know? So what do you think the younger
generation need to know? And it can really range in
whatever topic, life advice, popculture, like really anything.
Well, I'm pretty bad at pop culture so I think I'll go with
life advice. Yeah.
(43:26):
I would say, I mean, giving yourself grace in everything
that you do. And coming from someone who used
to have many timelines, as we have discussed, just trying to
be flexible because you never know what life is going to throw
at you if you're trying to rigidly to stick to 1 plan.
(43:48):
And this is true for parenting, this is true for careers.
This I think is true for everything.
If you're trying to stick to something too hard, you might be
missing out on something else wonderful.
So just kind of as best as you can, trying to keep an open mind
and giving yourself grace when things don't work out the way
that you think that they will because your life's going to be
(44:13):
great. Yeah.
I think that's great, Yeah. That applies to anything that
you do in life, too, like you said.
That's great, yeah. OK.
Well, thank you so much. I really enjoyed this
conversation. Thanks for talking with me
today. I really appreciate it.
This has been great. Thank you so much.
OK, bye. Thanks so much for listening.
(44:37):
I really enjoyed talking with Jenna and I have a feeling I'll
be bringing her back on. I feel lucky that we were able
to reflect and check in on our friendship after all these
years. I was truly taken aback when she
said she gave me 100% of the credit for maintaining the
relationship when her daughters were newborns.
I don't think I can take full credit.
I am proud of the work we have both done to maintain the
(44:59):
relationship. 20 years is a longtime and I was happy to hear
that I'm doing a great job as anadopted aunt to her girls.
I am really looking forward to making more memories with all of
them. Next week I'll be bringing you
into my conversation with another one of my soul mates,
Frankie. I thank the universe he was in
my internship group. I still remember that first day
(45:20):
thinking how I hoped we would befriends.
And then about Midsummer, he sent me a link to Shakira's
newest video. She, Wolf and I knew that our
friendship had been sealed, thatwe were going to be friends.
Flash forward to now and we've maintained that relationship and
we share a lot of the same interests.
The list is really long. He always brings in a different
(45:40):
perspective to my life and I canlisten to him speak for hours.
Frankie will share how his closerelationship with his family
affected his timelines, how he'snavigating friendships in his
30s, and what he hopes for the younger generation.
If you feel like anything resonated with you or any topic
that you want to talk about, please let me know.
(46:01):
If there's perspectives that you've been wanting to hear on
this podcast, you can also reachout.
You can reach out via e-mail at hello@thisclockpod.com or you
can DM me on Instagram at this clock pod.
For behind the scenes content into making this podcast and for
my reflections, you can subscribe to my sub stack at
(46:21):
this clock pod.substack.com. And of course, you can find all
this info in the show notes. To help support this podcast,
please rate, review, and follow on whatever platform you listen.
I'll see you next Thursday.
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